amanda ballantyne explores the challenges facing small businesses during the coronavirus pandemic. be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, and tweets. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning. it is small business saturday. while congress is set to return next week, small businesses are waiting to see if more federal pandemic aid is on the way. in the meantime, owners and workers push forward today, hoping for good customer traffic in stores and online. want to hear from you this morning if you are a small business owner, worker, or shopper. that is our focus for this first hour of "washington journal." if you live in the central or eastern time zones, (202) 748-8000.

if you live in the pacific or mountain time zones, (202) 748-8001. a separate line for business owners and employees. .our number, (202) 748-8002 you can also send a text message. .202) 748-8003 facebook.com/c-span is another pace -- place to post a comment. we start in new york city. the new york daily news published a story focusing on a young lady. the headline says, why small business saturday could make or break new york city stores. similarone of many stories around the country. brooklyn bookseller colima wants to be clear, she is not anti-amazon, as much as the sea is pro-keeping independent

retailers alive. cafe con libros is asking everyone to be more intentional with their spending. she says, "of course amazon can get you your book in the next eight hours, but books are not necessities. do you really need it that fast? " do we want to see our local bookstores boarded up? like other local entrepreneurs will be open this saturday, hoping holiday shoppers will either stop by in person or head to her website as they check names off of their gift list. her goal is to grow online sales 20% over last year to offset any lack of foot traffic. one more quote. climate is not supported small businesses over the long haul doing this pandemic. stimulus money is running out. it has become a political act to

spend money to keep small businesses viable. one other point. she said this business of hers turned a profit for the first time over the summer, but still relies on other employment to make ends meet. one of the many similar stories around the country today. of the conditions of small businesses in this country , the folks at goldman sachs posted the results of a survey recently. they call small businesses "sinking lifeboats." write that the impact of covid-19 on small businesses and communities all over the world is significant. in our latest survey, 96% said it is important for republicans and democrats to turn the page on partisan politics and pass bipartisan legislation to provide relief for america's small businesses. survey,etails of this

business owners continue to suffer and struggle. 42% have and forced to lay off employees or cut employee compensation. 28% say the legislative uncertainty has caused them to consider closing their business. 52% have work on paying them during this pandemic period. and 33% have dipped into personal savings to stay operational. a little bit more here. small businesses faced an uncertain future without relief. 38% say they will have to lay off employees or cut employee compensation. 20% say they will not be able to pay their commercial rent through the end of the year. just a snapshot of the state of small business. you can read that survey at goldmansachs.com. we welcome your calls, your tweets on the state of the small business community.

are an owner or worker, if you are a shopper, tell us what is happening in your community. president trump yesterday put a restaurants,nt of small businesses. the restaurant business is being absolutely decimated. congress should step up and help. time is of the essence, wrote president trump yesterday. congress comes back next week. we will see if there is any pandemic relief along the way. arrange for the dollar amount of bills -- ranges anywhere from trillion.on to $2 he was what nancy pelosi had to say about the state of negotiations. act ofanother misguided irresponsibility, secretary mnuchin has said he would in many critical emergency lending initiatives at the end of the year.

why would they do that? rebuke.a rare statement,d in its it would prefer the full suite of emergency facilities -- excuse me -- facilities established during the coronavirus pandemic to continue to serve their important role as a backstop for our vulnerable economy. the fed. the fed would prefer the full suite of emergency facilities established during the coronavirus pandemic to continue to serve their important role as a backstop for our strained and vulnerable economy. it is highly unusual for the fed to comment in that manner on something said the secretary of the treasury. again, why? why?

because they want to impede the ability of the next administration to have everything available to them. host: speaker pelosi from earlier this week. in the meantime, while we wait for congress to come back, it is small business saturday. kathleen is calling. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what is the state of small business in your community? caller: everything is drive-thru. buy something,nd but you can't sit down and eat. they said disney, from the news, 32,000 jobs. everything brick-and-mortar is almost gone. wear face masks if you are going to the store. on.we barely hanging

security, ssi, medicaid, medicare. the united states department of agriculture, they stopped giving out school lunches on the bus the way they used to gifted children in school was out march 12. host: kathleen, as we look at the state of small business in specific, it is your message to washington at this point? -- what is your message to washington at this point? caller: where is mitch mcconnell? he has left town, washington, d.c. nancy pelosi put up the heroes act, and nobody is talking about recession. ppe. nobody talking about things are dire. 2020, whenjanuary

the first covid-19 came into mississippi. host: kathleen, thank you for your call. we want to hear from small business owners, ploys, shoppers, folks like kathleen. you want to hear from you around the country about the state of small business. usps, the small business association, small businesses generate nearly 44% of economic output and account for two thirds of new hiring. the definition, generally small businesses are considered employing no more than about 500 workers. that last caller said, where is mitch mcconnell? here is mitch mcconnell. a couple of comments from a briefing early this week on capitol hill regarding the stimulus talks. what i'm saying publicly, because we have had no

private discussions about this. it looks to me like the speaker, the democratic leader of the senate, and former vice president biden all have the view that $2.5 trillion or nothing. i share the view of my colleagues, that a more narrowly-targeted proposal, such as we laid out in september and october here in the senate, deals with the actual problem. as some of you may or may not have noticed, revenues at the state level are up almost everywhere. and they continue to insist, apparently on almost $1 trillion on state and local government? that has nothing to do with solving this problem. to sum it up, i am open to a targeted bill roughly of the amount that we recommended.

half $1 trillion, which is not nothing. narrowly targeted at schools, , ppp, ande providers liability reform to keep america anm being engaged in epidemic of lawsuits on the heels of the pandemic. very open to that, that i have seen no evidence yet that they are open to it. host: mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader, the majority leader talking about age. we will -- aid. business saturday. all of this against the backdrop of this headline. nearly 100,000 establishments that temporarily shut down are now out of business. kevin, you are calling from christine, texas. good morning. yes, it is corpus

christi, texas. host: go ahead, please. caller: the small businesses here at the beginning were hit hard, but the governor and texas business leaders and everyone else, and customers, now everything is starting to get back up again. people are out shopping, people are out on the road, people are in restaurants, have to wear a mask when we go in. we socially distance. people are doing the responsible thing. they don't need government to tell them how to do everything in their lives. kevin, to what extent do you shop at small businesses versus other businesses? caller: high shop just as much as i did before the pandemic. the same amount. at first, of course, a lot of

these businesses were closed. last few months, we go in there, they have signs, you have to wear a mask and everything else, you have to keep your distance, and there is locations on the floor to stand if you are waiting in line. everyone recognizes everyone --e's space, so it is not everyone is being polite. the thing i noticed about the pandemic is that people are being a lot more courteous towards each other. host: interesting, right? caller: as far as being distanced and everything else. i do it because i am not in a health group that is in danger of -- you know, i am the risk. but i put the mask on, i keep my distance so that other people that might be more worried about

it are more comfortable. host: kevin, let me ask you, residing in corpus christi, don't think you and your neighbors necessarily need government telling you what to do. what is your take on federal government aid? the paycheck protection program, other forms of government aid for small business? is it helpful, is it necessary? what is your take on what washington's role as? caller: that actually is a very good question. i asked a lot of people -- i am ac class. taking a hv i am a veteran, so i'm getting back into the workforce again and i am in college, taking this. i talked to a lot of business owners, because a lot of them teach also, because they are trying to get workers to work with them. know, ifed them, you

they are having a problem ask retailkers, i managers of their shopping, gas stations if i'm in there. i ask them the same question, are you having a problem? there is help wanted signs everywhere. but the one, consistent statement that they say is, we had workers, then once they began getting that extra $600 a month on top of their unemployment through the state -- this texas -- they don't want to come back to work unless -- until they have to. host: thank you for your point, kevin. let's hear from alan kentucky. you are a small business employee, correct? caller: correct. host: what kind of business?

caller: an electronic technician. host: how is business these days? caller: there is none. none. i want to talk about mitch mcconnell. he has really tried to get this stimulus plan for -- through for the people. but the democrats wants to support -- like california, new states out wasted the money. i can understand what mcconnell is doing. it should be for the people. and not for the states. a federal, what would package of a mean for your business? -- aid mean for your business? caller: as a good question. i think it would boost us.

we would really believe in our politicians if everybody come together and vote on this package, instead of fighting among each other. but mcconnell has got the plan, and there is no support. and the democrats fights everything the republicans wants to put up. host: that was alan kentucky. let's hear from michael in fayette, alabama. what kind of business do you own? caller: i have a home-based commercial graphics and cartooning and studio art business. even though our town has 5000 people, getting ready for any --nts that will happen visual artist events that will happen next year when everybody has been vaccinated, well, maybe not everybody, but the vast majority of americans.

what bothers me, what concerns me is something i have never asked for from anybody else. i am a little bit disturbed that even though their intentions, people who have started these ands are extremely generous kind-spirited, it is the charity model for helping out small untilsses in the meantime pelosi and old mitch mcconnell come together on an agreement to assist the small business administration with that stimulus bill. had --e has already these were started out, kickstarter and so forth, in 2008, to assist those of us in fine arts and entertainment. i am grateful, but i feel that

1.5 million colleges and universities, disease research charities are grabbing at me, shouting give me. i know that's not the case, but these that are designed like smallworks.org or -- i've forgotten the name, it is an advertising council commercial where they ask you to donate. some of these funds for small businesses, which have gotten on fortunately they are not as frivolous as some of those we have had in the past decade. please donate generously so i can go to comic con, dude. larry,e have a call from out west in california. how would you describe the state of small business in your community? caller: everything looks slow.

i think the people need a stimulus, but i wanted to make a comment on when they say, help bail out the states. i am from california there is a lot of people here who are not from california, but california is the fourth leading economy in the world a few years back. when donald trump did not have a national plan for this virus, which we knew was coming. everybody knew a virus was coming sooner or later. nancy pelosi got with donald trump and said testing, treatment, isolation, treatment. give people $200 a month for six months. masks, social distance, all of the above, and he didn't. he didn't want to do anything. now, california, we are hurting over there. our amusement parks are down, we

don't have baseball, football, college, we are locked down like it is in prison. $1200 a month, and let's lock down and do it right. host: let me ask you a question. you mentioned all of those things that are closed. theme parks and baseball. how about the small businesses in your area? are you a small business shopper? what do you see when you go out? we are up here in joshua tree, so we are the tourist place. people don't want to go into the little restaurants to eat. there are only a couple that are set up outside to eat. we go once in a while. most everything is to get and go. people don't want to go in the stores. the ventilation is bad, every thing is old here. it smells musty. everybody is just scared. host: larry, thanks for calling.

here are your stories this morning about the state of small business. want to hear from you if you are a shopper, owner, or employee. --re is a text sent denver sent in by a viewer. i know people who ran their small businesses in philadelphia. they are all gone. my small business is hardly on ebay anymore. no politician created this virus, but many made this crisis worse. we will never forget, says samuel from philadelphia. at the same time, we know small business saturday follows black friday. the "wall street journal" headline says choppers and discounts are scant. at the international park in the bay street in tampa, florida not looking terribly busy. at least at the time they took this photo. here's a picture of a line at a game stop in pennsylvania, not far from scranton.

the glendale galleria in glendale, california. they point out that the pandemic has reshaped the holiday shopping season. many retail chains holding the line on discounts because they are sitting on lean inventories. discto the small is this -- small business discussion. regina from louisville, kentucky. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm calling as a customer. whereas i am from louisville, kentucky, a year ago i relocated from nashville, tennessee. i find it tragic what is happening with small businesses. that is what i prefer to be a patron of, and supporting small businesses. hospitality and tourism world. a lot of these businesses are not coming back at all.

i would like to piggyback on peoplemeone said about not, you know, wanting to go back to work because of stimulus. the service workers underpaid many americans are underpaid. if anything, this pandemic has showed -- i mean, getting unemployment, you make more money than going to work, something is wrong with the system. it is really all just heartbreaking. this pandemic is real. i have lost relatives. i have got loved ones in the hospital now, on ventilators. this is real. we need to take it seriously. i wish washington would get a stag -- would get it together. businesses.g small no matter what, they are not coming back from this. the only ones i know staying

wealthare people who had in the beginning. host: thank you, regina. to that point, some grim news. small business closures during the pandemic. "fortune" rights, based on research done by the , they write yelp that at the onset of the pandemic 140,000-plus businesses were marked closed, but by august had fallen to 65,000. that drop is not entirely driven by business reopening. instead, many have simply gone under. more than 97,900 is this is permanently shut down during the pandemic. some more detail there on that story we told you about earlier in the show. from florida. good morning. caller: good morning.

i see where mitch mcconnell is putting up or if his propaganda, that he can't get anything passed because of his colleagues won't support any more than $500 billion, whereas pelosi came to $2.1m $3.4 billion billion. he doesn't even go into the negotiations. he is an old man, he is totally out of touch with what is going on. basically he does not want to have -- he could easily pass something, because he could get the democrats votes, 10 republican votes, and pass something for $1.9 trillion. host: what part of the state is when the mere? -- windemere? caller: i live outside of orlando. there is high unemployment. it is a tourist area. there is a lot of people that don't have food. we have run out of food here.

the food banks are running out of food. people are being effect, and they are just sitting up there, and when it came time to pass a tax cut for the 1%, a tax cut corporations, mitch could get that through real easy. host: what would a stimulus bill mean to windemere. caller: should not be voting republican. host: all right, ron is calling from jenny a. the owner of a small business. what kind of business do you have? caller: business is great. it has never been better. we are setting sales records all the time. i am a small business guy. i have been in his for about 20 years. i had no money. my father was a truck driver. i got lucky and on into a business, and we work hard. my son helps me.

the only problems i see are the businesses that the government will not let reopen. my business in richmond, traffic is heavy. i went out to eat twice in the restaurants, they are busy. i don't know of anyone with covid. i don't know anyone that knows anyone with covid. if they just let the people go and let them open up for business, pings would be great. host: -- business would be great. host: what kind of business are you in? caller: automotive repair. we are setting records all the time. host: do you have any need for federal stimulus? caller: sure, we got the stimulus. didn't need it, but it was free money, so we took it. host: what did you end up doing with the money? caller: it is still sitting in the bank. i'm still waiting to see how i

have to pay back the government, they have changed for five times already. it was free, then you have to pay percent. they want let us pay on it at this point. who knows how that is going to work out? a lot of people don't need the money. there are people out there that do need money, the -- but it is because the government is holding up down. -- holding them down. mitch mcconnell is right. you just don't need it. if they would target the money and put it where it needs to be, then it would be great. as far as hiring people goes, i have people coming in and applying all the time. they work a day or two, and try to file for unemployment. one guy said he shot himself and could not come back to work and try to draw unemployment. another guy, they come in and leave and show up, then they try to draw unemployment. that is crazy, $600 extra

unemployment a week. host: ron, thank you for calling this morning. we mention details on the status of the paycheck protection program. they provided federal aid and ended on august 8 of this year. more than 5.2 million loans, totaling $525- billion. tovided grants and loans businesses with fewer than 500 employees. interest on mortgages, rent, utilities, self-employed and contract workers were also eligible. a snapshot of the paycheck protection program. we have tommy on the line from virginia, brookfield. yes, it is.

a rural town. host: tell us about small business there. caller: we have a lot of small businesses, convenience stores, laundromats, and they seem to be doing well. i know, for a while, this town thebeen against like walmart and some of the large businesses coming in, so most of them are mom-and-pop stores. i don't see too much of a problem. i agree with the previous color. aremmute, and they absolutely right, these businesses are thriving. there's a lot of new cars in my community. thing is the covid spike, i disagree with that. i'm not sure where people are being heard. i see construction in this area, and i myself have received the

stimulus and like the previous color said, i have not spent it. at this point, i'm not sure if our community needs more stimulus or other areas, but i am a consumer, a patron, and i don't see where we are hurting. thank you for taking my call. host: thank you for calling. here is a text this morning from jeff. i dressed reality, generally small businesses suffer under capital. almost no bank line of credit, unfamiliar with factoring, improper insurance coverage, failure to utilize combination purchasing, little accounting systems, failure to have legal representation. goodly spaces and rental terms, almost no knowledge in computers, and together this sounds in failures. another viewer texts i'm retired but my son and two kids moved in with me after he lost his job. i get $1600 per month, what happened to our country?

stop congress from getting paid. that's from tom and scott is in washington who writes democrats interfered with businesses, lockdowns, withholding money to help, big thanks to nancy pelosi. ha ha. more of the headlines from black friday's in the paper. new york times business section, thin clouds -- crowds and a few long lines. a pandemic-weary public shopped online. this is from sacramento, california. black friday in 2020, later crowds as traffic moves online. here is a couple shoppers at falls church, virginia. a bigger picture on the economy. to contrast what we have been talking about with small businesses, some folks say they have been hurting quite a bit. new york times reports amazon is

hiring at a record clip 1400 people per day being hired by the amazon company, one of the largest in the world. the wall street journal telus amazon is paying $500 million in holiday bonuses -- tells us amazon is paying $500 million in holiday bonuses. kevin is calling from indiana, a small business owner. kevin, tell us your story. caller: i've got an electrical heating and air business, and also a wedding venue. the heating and air business is doing ok, a lot of people have finance because no one has much saving it seems like. the wedding area, i shut it down. i'm not getting any revenue from that. stings, because i just started it and spent about $30,000 in it.

and i'm not able to get anything back. besides that, i would say my small business, one is doing good and one is doing bad. host: kevin, will you close the wedding business or put it on pause? caller: it is on pause, waiting to see if this vaccination takes place next year and go from there. host: did you take any of the federal money that has come out this year? caller: yeah, every bit of it. -- i had toonly way take from my electrical and heating business. i just paid off a loan that i had with it and now i have a loan with the small business association. i'm the sole proprietor, so it is all kind of just me, but they helped out tremendously. i don't have any worries, because i have savings now, and i have to pay it back. i got a cheaper interest rate on that loan then my student loans.

host: would you take more money if it were available? do you need it? caller: i don't need it, no. anymore, and ie think that -- i think the government needs some kind of -- everybody says they need to put it here or there. i don't know why the government a greatcome up with algorithm. tiktok can come up with a great algorithm but our government can't. i wonder why. i would say people who are waitresses, cooks, things like that would probably help out. host: kevin, thank you for calling. on to deborah in mississippi. caller: hi, how are you? host: doing fine. onlyr: i'm a consumer and can speak from the consumer's perspective. i do not operate a business,

however i'm terrified to go to a restaurant. i have not been in one since march. i'm afraid to go to the doctor, afraid to go to the auto mechanic, afraid to go inside any business because of covid. as for the gentleman that took the stimulus money and did not need it, he is no different than -- one that took the 600 $600. it is money. it's the same thing. host: dr. visits aside, of course those are important, but in terms of shopping, have you gone online to do shopping because of your concerns? how else are you getting the materials you are needing? caller: i will go online and shop but i'm afraid to bring the packages in the house. i leave them in the garage for three weeks and then spray them down with disinfectant. i am terrified. host: anything else, deborah?

caller: host: no, that is it. thank you for sharing your -- no, that is it. host: thank you for sharing your story. a lot of small businesses i've not been able to adapt to covid-19 rules and the federal government has really helped the state and government can only give so much. another text message, ignorance is bliss. who have seenners increase in traffic understand customers come from other businesses that have closed? taking your calls on this small .usiness saturday going to talk with amanda ballantine of the mainstream lines, executive director there. more about the pandemic's impact on small business and what can be done to help them be done. what we can do is look at the conditions. looking at upstate new york.

bill.orning, caller: good morning. years old,ed man, 80 and i go to the store with a mask once a week. i go to a couple meetings, and it works out fine. i think it is really an art that you never had to use before of trying to keep the economy going andtrying to everybody safe nobody dying of covid-19. i don't know the answer. sides --know that both everybody, keep cool, everybody follow some covid rules to the extent they can, things will work out. that's it.

we just got to wait. a 100 percent lockdown and enforce the laws, because some people just like to follow laws. like every other law, when you don't follow the mandate, you fined.d -- if you are a persistent fella, you get put in jail. host: onto stephen, another business owner. good morning. caller: so on this paycheck , when thisstuff first happened, my small business was pulling in about $20,000 per month. it dropped to zero really for about five to six months. now things are still -- things are starting to pick up. i didn't get any paycheck protection program because of

the stuff kicking in. i had to use my credit cards and drop, so my credit score ped and was denied that's, didn't get any paycheck protection. host: what kind of business do you have? caller: i am an i.t. infrastructure business -- an i.t. infrastructure business. host: how long have you on the business and how many employees you have? business have been in for the last seven years. [indiscernible] and now they want to close the thing down again. we are going to go bankrupt.

or you go to work and make money, and now we are starting to make money. 60% or 70% of my earlier in the year, and it will be closed down again. this is very frustrating. isan work, but the problem you're going to shut me down, give me money, and just keep calling. none of the people [indiscernible] host: stephen, thank you for weighing in this morning. going to get other calls in including eddie from florida, an employee at a small business. good morning, eddie, where do you work? caller: hey limousine company. good morning and thank you for -- a limousine company. good morning and thank you for taking my call. host: how long have you been working there? caller: 13 years. host: what are conditions like? caller: it is terrible right doingecause i have been

restaurants and parties and stuff like that, and that industry is really down area -- down. people don't realize that we had the red tide come in for an extended period of time in florida. host: have your hours or pay been reduced during this pandemic period? caller: i would say 80% to 85% reduced. host: reduced by 80% 85%? caller: that's correct. host: how are you getting by? caller: basically social security. i'm retirement age and had to draw that because i did not have the funds to make the money. i was able to start drawing social security and retirement. host: have you had to look for other work during this period, to make ends meet?

meet?s eddie, thank you for sharing your situation. we will do this for 15 or 16 more minutes. here, aet more news in scathing ruling, the president in pennsylvania, annie a blistering decision that the trump campaign cannot stop or reverse the certification of in -- a complete repudiation of trump legal effort to halt pennsylvania's certification process and asserted by a judge that he himself had appointed to the bench. that is in the "new york times." you have probably heard about the iranian nuclear scientist .illed in an ambush in iran

tehran is blaming israel, and this underscores the challenges ahead for biden. they say it underscores one of the many challenges ahead for the biden administration as it looks to reset policies toward iran after president trump's maximum pressure campaign. the foreign minister in iran is describing the attack as a work of state terror and implicated israel as having a possible role. israel had no comment. top irani nuclear scientist killed in an ambush is the headline this morning. back to your calls on the state of small business in this country. we have albert from clearwater. hello, albert. caller: good morning, and thank you for taking my call. host: you're welcome. caller: i'm in the entertainment business, and we take a huge hit you're in florida from even the first time they shut down. being in the entertainment business, entertainment folks, a lot of us like myself, i'm 60 years old, disabled not able to

work a regular job. i'm sittinging -- here entertaining someone on a saturday night after they are working, is there any value to that? then some people never get back to work here and there with some of the restaurants, bars, and places where they were serving food could stay open. they had their own select people that they had known from the past would bring their friends with them to help the business along the little bit. the more popular groups have been able to sustain a little bit, but not really that much. of course popularity in the entertainment business is everything. notice, what the gentleman from new york was saying about people not obeying the laws or paying attention to the mandates, i think the tvgest culprit in that is

commercial advertises. name one commercial that shows people wearing masks and doing what the mandates require. you watch the news, we watch national news, global news, telling us about mandates and wearing a mask, but then two seconds later, there are these commercials kind of giving us a different input and messaging. we are bombarded by commercials daily, all day every day, and between news segments, and it is giving us a mixed message. host: alber, thank you for your points. on to the raleigh, north carolina. hello, cecil. are you with us? caller: yes, i'm with you. about our endangered

-- you know, what you got -- you are not able to keep up with your pills, and if you don't for the kind of education that, we are not going to be the most educated people in the ,orld, our system is failing education, and the delivery of the product, and everybody is fearful. it's not like out of the , where anything but fear itself could get in your way. host: do you get out much to shop at small businesses in the raleigh -- in raleigh? caller: as what? host: do you get out to shop as much in raleigh in small businesses? caller: no, i'm not at risk in a way because my family are grown because i'm 90. host: 90? caller: when you complete that,

you are looking for better things for your kids. and i haveed more, more empathy for people. we have lost our way. we don't have the morale or the , a godly like situation, don't have got around to know what is right or wrong, but we don't have proper education. i was a slow learner in school. i'm slow in reading and things like that. the way ofone along the old dogs get caught in your tricks. i will start talking sometimes, and people will say you are talking like a professor. host: cecil, think you for calling this morning. a smallfrom maine, business employee. where do you work? caller: i work at -- in the old

port. host: how is business there? caller: pre-pandemic, we were doing pretty well. it hase pandemic it, and been killing the old porch, which is like the major area for small businesses in portland. host: have there been many layoffs, marissa? caller: there have been. there have been. we have like half the employees we once had. host: what do you do at the business you work at? caller: i have been manager there for five years now, and i also manage their web presence. host: how hopeful are you things will improve, and have you received any federal government aid? do you need help from the federal government? caller: we did receive the sca loans, and that has been really helping us sustain.

i would like to say i'm cautiously optimistic, but it really seems like small businesses have kind of gotten the short end of the stick as far as aid goes, as far as people still wanting to shop local, where a lot of people are struggling with web presence. it is hard for small businesses to make it. host: a couple callers mentioned health concerns, with going out and coming into small businesses. have you encounter that? caller: we certainly have, yeah. it has been concerning. i know once somebody tests positive for covid, the whole business has to shut down. i know lots of employees have been nervous. it was nerve-racking when we first reopened, so you know, it is scary. host: we are in washington waiting for congress to come back next weekend aside whether or not there will be another stimulus bill. does your shop need more help

from the federal government? caller: we definitely need more help. especially where we just -- we just saw minimum wage go up for january in portland and as well as a proposition for $18 per hour hazard pay. small businesses really need help. host: marissa, thank you for calling this morning. we have time for a few more calls. we wanted to bring you an update on one of the federal programs out designed to help people during this period. it is called the ff cra. it is nearing its sunset date. meant toederal law deal with the needs of employees in the pandemic. act.y first coronavirus there are two buckets of paid leave, and in addition to

providing workers flexibility, the law may be effective at preventing covid-19 spread, according to a research paper. access to paid sick leave via the -- roughly one preventive case per day per 1300 workers. an extension of the lead provisions have been proposed to congress by the u.s. health and economic recovery on the emergency solutions act, also known as the heroes act, which we heard about. the senate has yet to take up that legislation. that is part of the ongoing debate in congress. lee from houston, they are calling now. tell us how small business is doing in that small city. caller: not too well. i work for a small entertainment equipment to out

other larger venues, and i also work for a larger venue. the entertainment industry has taken a bad hit. are 12 million. host: tell us more. caller: 12 million of us are out of work. i work about some blues, also. we have been out of work since march 15. the entire building and shut down. --body, from way churches from waitresses to audio engineers, have been out of work all time. host: have you gotten any kind of financial aid compensation during this period? caller: on the house of blues, we did get unemployment and did but that,00 stimulus, i can tell you, i only get $122 in unemployment without any

stimulus package. what can i do with that? host: lee, what is next for you. -- you? a long can you hold on? caller: i don't know. now i'm in the hospital with cancer. host: i'm sorry to hear that, lee. caller: i'm 60 years old and have been doing this for 30 years. what am i going to do? if we can get the building open, we could go back to work. we want to go back to work, all of us want to go back to work. lee, from houston, texas, thank you for calling. mike is in gettysburg, pa. hello, mike. caller: thanks for the opportunity to be on. i would like to make a couple statements about things. the bottom line, we need money for the people, not the states. the democrats seem to want to the states ando republicans seem to want to get

the money to the people, but they don't want to give it to the states to bailout bad business practices in the past. people are being scared by the media on covid, and of people would use common sense, we see people out shopping, gambling at casinos. if you look at casinos, casinos are packed. out at restaurants. but again, it is a type deal of thethe media scares -- like poor lady that had not been to the doctor or out to do anything, she is being -- i mean common sense has to prevail, and that is about it. there is a lot to be said about -- on the subject. it depends on what side of the fence you are on that you sign on. host: thank you, mike.

greg, alabama, a small business owner. what kind of business? caller: i own two businesses. host: how many employees? caller: i have about 27 here in huntsville and 105 total. host: how has it been going in the last months? caller: killing us. i watched politics be played out , and i think we have all had a belly pull -- a partisan politics on both sides. poor leadership. i'm not a trump fan. i think his leadership skills are terrible, way too much give me credit. as a republican, i wish we had better leadership, but i'm not sure joe is a better man for the job. host: tell us about the finances. have you had to lay off people? caller: we are in a booming economy, really growing. huntsville is a high-tech area.

more physicists per square inch in the world -- than anywhere in the world. essential.lared give you a quick take, it has been painful, because we can't get parts. instead of buying parts for jobs, california was one of the manufacturer of our parts and california shut down and they couldn't get parts. mexico shut down, a lot of places shut down, taking low risk workers and shut down. word on the shut down, and we don't even need to hear the word shut down. we are a 20 pro trillion dollar economy -- $24 trillion economy, the leader of the world. if we tumble, this will pale in comparison to the pain-and-suffering this causes. this economy, if you kill it,

about you are talking trillion with a t and not a b -- not a b. if you are a low-risk person, get up, socially distance, get to work and keep the economy going. we have to keep moving forward and keep our feet moving. the world depends on us. a good leadership, smart idea is a complete shut down and hide in the closet. the essential is a problem but the non-essential supply shingles, wood. look at lumber prices, how do you build a house? you can't shut down supply and demand when the supplies are low, the demand will go down because no one can afford it. it has affected us tremendously, but we have not had one person in my organization that had covid. we have socially distanced, wear

a mask around people with respect for them and just to try to stay safe because it is a patriotic duty. not because we are told to do it but intelligent enough to know we need to protect who we work for and want to take care of our country. we want to be patriotic and want to do what it takes to keep this thing rolling. not democrats, not republicans. ttey got up and got their bu to work. if you are at risk, sit at home. if you are over 65, sit at home. if you have an autoimmune disorder, obese, and you are at risk, stand home. you are healthy, strap on the boots and get up and go to work to support this country and keep this world safe. host: greg, think you for calling. a final word for this segment and we will do this later as well, more on your calls on how things are going in your community, small business-wise. we will take a short break. it is 8:00 in the east.

a up, the push to legalize marijuana got a late -- a major boost this election day. where that issue is going at the state level and potentially the federal level with john hudak, an author with brookings institution. later on in the program, the state of small business. we will have a guest of small business saturday, amanda ballantine of the main street alliance. you are watching "washington journal" for saturday, november 28. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ >> book tv on c-span two has top, nonfiction books and authors every weekend. this weekend, tonight, at 9:00 p.m. eastern, barack obama

reflects on his life and political career in his newly released memoir, a promised land. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, open markets institute director sally hubbard and her book, seven ways big corporations rule your life and how to take back control. she is interviewed by david mcglocklin. at 10:00, george mason university law professor douglas book, examining the constitution through the eyes of judges, legal scholars, and historians. , thisbook tv on c-span2 weekend. be sure to watch in-depth, live, sunday, december 6 at noon eastern with our guest, author and chair of african-american studies at princeton university, eddie glaude junior. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is john hudak, a senior fellow at the

brookings institution and author of this book "marijuana, a short history." take a look at the cover there, marijuana, a short history. talking about marijuana legalization in the u.s.. take you for joining us. >> good to be back -- guest: good to be back. host: election day featured more news, several more states active of legalizing recreational marijuana. guest: on election day, four cannabisd a legal use -- a recreational legal use and all five measures passed. what's most remarkable is that they were different from one another. they were from all corners of the country, montana, arizona, new jersey, south dakota, states that are liberal, states that are conservative, that gave a like torah votes to trump and biden.

-- that gave electoral votes to trump and biden. they, in many cases, voted overwhelmingly to try something other than prohibition. host: we know marijuana was already legal for adults, recreational marijuana, in 11 states in washington, d.c., correct? guest: that is right. just this year, vermont continued their march toward legalization, passing through their legislature a bill that would allow a commercial market to go into play, adding on two previous reforms they have done as well. host: tell us why this is happening. to what do you attribute the rise of each state to this type of legislation? guest: passing cannabis lead to ballots toalization get their legislature is a response by the public to what has been decades long failure in public policy when it comes to the war on drugs. people recognize our drug laws

are problematic. they are putting a lot of people in jail. cannabis in particular leads to hundreds of thousands of arrest every year. -- arrests every year. disproportionately, those arrests are people of color. at that and say maybe they have experimented with cannabis before, regular users, or have never touched it. what they are seeing is the failure to the war on drugs is leading to a crisis in this country, and they want to step away from prohibition and try something different. when they look at neighboring states who have legalized cannabis, they see the sky has not fallen. while there might be problems, the states are reacting to the problems. policies, legalization policies, or more sorry, a super'm majority of americans do not favor prohibition. host: we will do three lines this morning, if you support legislation to legalize marijuana, call this number,

(202) 748-8000. if you oppose the legislation, call (202) 748-8001. if you are just not sure, (202) 748-8002. we should point out that medical marijuana is already legal in 34 states. marijuanaas medical been allowed in this country? guest: states started reforming their medical laws in 1996 when california passed an initiative california's medical initiative earned more votes than bill clinton did on the same ballot for reelection. that really began this now process of states recognizing the nation's law, the federal law is out of date and there might be something possible at the state level that can bring relief to patients suffering from serious and debilitating illnesses. california was the first, but you mentioned, it certainly was

not the last. medical cannabis now has the support of over 90% of americans across the country, and we see that when states like mississippi, which passed it on election day with overwhelming support, 60% voted to legalize medical marijuana. host: when it comes back to recreational marijuana use, the answers might seem obvious. what are the pros and cons on each side of the arguments on whether states should legalize? guest: as i noted earlier, the dip -- the disproportionate effects of drugs are felt by communities of color. hundreds of thousands of into a jewels are arrested every year for violating cannabis laws. most americans recognize that is a poor waste of resources. there are much bigger fish to fry, other crimes law enforcement should be focusing on, so because of that, they recognize some that is possible. in addition, we know cannabis is

the most widely used illegal substance in the united states. what happens when that is sold on the black market is there is no regulation, no consumer protection, have no idea necessarily how that plant is produced, unless you are growing yourself. you have no idea what adulterer in sarin that. a legal, regulated system helps deal with those issues and protect the product and consumer. in addition to that, while cannabis sales on the illicit market in some of the states are booming in some cases, the state is not able to extract cash revenue from that and use that for other purposes. one of the reasons legalization is happening is not just to secure the system, but also to get revenue out of that system, recognizing those sales are happening whether it is legal or not. being able to use the power of taxation to deal with some of the effects that come from cannabis use is important.

on the negative side, the anti-reform side, most of the individuals focus on issues of public health and safety. addiction, dependence, driving under the influence, etc. it is important to realize those issues also existed under prohibition. the question is, how effective is our government in combating those issues. there are different models. it legalization is one of them, but that is really the focus on the campaign. host: so because for our guests. michelle is calling from new york, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. host: i see you are calling on the line for folks who are not sure about legalization. tell us why. caller: ok. i'm a 70-year-old female and have been using, up to this point, recreational marijuana.

at this point, myself and many of my peers, seem to be on this cvd trend, which yes it does help with bone pain and things like that, but i think the ,ombination of the thc and cbd used properly, is an excellent resource for people with chronic pain, certainly much better option than an opioid. also, you mentioned, john, about the tax revenues. i live in new york state and travel out-of-state to buy legal recreational marijuana, and i is by farurity of it -- it is a much better product. it is regulated. ok, the taxes you will pay

more money from a premium -- pot whether you buy it that way or illegally. i'm just not sure. i'm a you -- i am a user and enjoy it, and i'm still not sure. and what steps really have to be taken to legalize it and keep it safe. host: michelle, thank you. john hudak, what would you say to michelle? caller: two points. your point on the combination of cbd and thc, there's a lot of research to understand what people call the entourage of fact, how different chemical compounds within the cap vocal -- the cannabis plants, how they interact with each other to create certain outcomes, whether that outcome is the traditional high, whether the outcome is some sort of medical relief,

whether it is for pain or other purposes. there's a lot of research that is trying to understand how those interactions produce outcomes, something the medical community has not devoted enough attention to. i think you are right, michelle, there are a lot of users that speak from their own experience to say certain combinations of can have a noise pork in different ways for them. some are effective and some are less effective, but i think it is inspiring medical research is taking up this mantle and trying to understand that. your point on tax revenue, i think it is important to note that while states extract tax revenue as you mentioned on traveling out of state or purchasing in another state, which is keeping that tax revenue in the state he purchased, cannabis is not going to be -- you purchased, cannabis is not going to be a grand solution for a state budget well. it will produce significant tax revenue that was not there previously, but one thing

important to caution is politicians and other advocates promising that this will be a cure all for problems that are now being increased. mixedms increased in the of a pandemic and recession. it cannabis will just not do that. tax revenue at shelf -- itself should not be a focus but shirt and lean should be part of the convent -- but certainly should be part of the conversation. host: james, you are on with john. caller: thank you. a previous speaker of the house is a ceo on the board of legalize marijuana. marijuana is used in the black neighborhood to soup less -- to suppress. once you get a felony, i got caught 25 years ago with enough marijuana to put in your fingernails and got put in jail for it. you sell it today, they bring it

up. the democrats, they need an executive order immediately to extend that and we need expungement. the white people are using this as a big business, going on wall street, but the black people are still suffering for it. a majority of the black felonyion, it is still a to get caught with over an ounce of marijuana, and it goes on your record and you cannot get housing, certain business license, cannot vote. but this methamphetamine, they lack these people up, treat them , not on their record. it is racism. the democrats need to take this recordsnge people's with possession of marijuana. host: james, thank you for calling. mr. hudak, expunging is an effort on capitol hill with

legislation that the house will take up. do you want to respond to the caller, first? caller: james, on fort -- guest: james, unfortunately, an uncommons not one. after arrests, we have seen prison sentences in many cases that are disproportionately higher than those by white americans. it is unfortunate. i hear the passion in your voice, and i can't begin to understand what you have gone through and what your family has gone through, but it is an important story of the american experience that i think needs to thatld around drug policy, drug arrest is just a one and the problems it will cause. it will limit people economically, socially, harm families, harm parents and children, harm others in the community. i think it's an important moment

to start thinking about not just a public health and safety effects of legalization but the public health and public safety effects of prohibition and how many people's lives have been affected in the way he describes or worse -- described or worse by our nations cannabis laws. there is movement on capitol hill right now to address one of the other points that james noted, expungement. next week, the house will vote on a comprehensive cannabis legalization bill. it will be the most copperheads of bill voted on by a chamber of commerce in history with guard to cannabis reform. -- of the positions provisions would involve expungement. that would be at the federal level for low-level canvas crimes. very few low-level cannabis crimes are charged at the federal level. the vast majority are at the state level and the federal legislation cannot expunge state-level crimes.

but there is any effort in the state to have expungement around low-level cannabis crimes happen. in some cases, that requires individuals to petition the court or a district attorney to do this. in other places like illinois, that expungement is automatic, which reduces the cost to the individual who either has that on the record or was incarcerated for it. they don't then need to shell out money or find an attorney to make this happen, that is more efficient than expungement and is an important distinction in the conversation. host: so in the u.s. house, watch for more acts coming up this week, more standing for the marijuana opportunity reinvestment and expungement act, sponsored by vice president elect kamala harris, jerrold nadler. it removes marijuana from scheduled substances under the controlled substances act. it eliminates, no penalties for people who manufacture,

distribute, or possess marijuana. it is tabulates a process to expunge convictions and conduct sentencing review hearings related to the federal cannabis offenses and imposes a 5% tax on cannabis products. any chance of that legislation passing? guest: i think there's a good chance it passes the house democrats in congress. a couple republicans signaled support for this. it's unlikely the bill would go to the floor without having the votes. particularly, the speaker won't put up bills that will ultimately fail. i think passage in the house is going to be a first step in a very short road. the senate is not going to take this up. mitch mcconnell signaled legislation. even if you were to put it to the floor and senate, it is hard to see it getting 50 votes, are to see it getting 60 votes necessary to be a filibuster. i think that is true in the current senate and probably true

in the next one as well gaveling in in january, but it is an important step in the right direction, toward this nation recognizing federal level solutions are necessary to deal with cannabis laws and this step-by-step state-level approach has some of that, but certainly it falls short of resolving the policy problems that exist in this country. host: where is your sense of where the president-elect is on this issue? guest: the president-elect is certainly -- has certainly signaled support for some level of reform when it comes to our nations drug laws. it is certainly not the same level for support for reform like vice president-elect harris had or others running in the democratic primary this year. when i think is important for the new administration to recognize, the president-elect signaled this in some of the debates he had this year, that has faileddrugs

policy. he has recognized and apologized for some of the laws he either authored or voted for in the senate with regard to criminal justice and specifically drug policy. it's important for the administration to recognize cannabis policy is not just about cannabis, it is about criminal justice, policing, social and racial equity, economic opportunity and education. it cannabis businesses across the country or small businesses are employing a lot of people. in this producing a lot of economic activity. we need to stop thinking about the nations drug laws as simply about substance but more holistically about the broader impact those laws that prohibition has had on this country and how changes to public policy can really improve the elements and parts of our society that have been harmed by 80 to 100 years of the drug war. host: steve is in south carolina on the line for those not sure

about marijuana legalization. steve, tell us why. caller: thank you for taking my call. there's a couple different things i like to talk about. one would be from a safety aspect, when dealing with heavy manufacturing, construction, and such like that. if it is a legalized product, and your employees come in the influence, it would be a big concern. i was a many of -- in manufacturing for almost 40 years, and the other aspect i would like to think about, would wonder about, is i would admit many, many years ago, maybe back in college, i tried the marijuana at that time. the marijuana they bring out now is, i understand, to be more itent, and one of the things always concerned about, from my aspect, is how this affects

peoples'-- how do i put it, their drive or ambition to be a good citizen. i know that sounds like a strange comment, but yeah, those would be the two areas -- i'm very concerned about the safety, again. even from a standpoint of driving an automobile under the influence. host: thank you, steve, for calling. guest: thank you for that question. those are two concerns often times discussed in a cannabis legalization debate. on the first point of companies that perhaps do not want their employees to come in under the influence because it creates a serious health or safety issues, like operating heavy machinery, school bus drivers, doctors, police officers, emts. what states have done has put in place protections for businesses like that to allow them to have

a drug-free workplace, whether that substance is legal or illegal. it's important to think about it in the same way you think about alcohol. if you have worked in a company or operated in a company of heavy machinery, same way if you have an employee showed drunk to work and can be terminated, the same would apply for someone who would show up under the influence of cannabis, whether that substance is legal or illegal. those protections don't go away simply because the state has legalized him -- legalized cannabis. those protections have been reiterated in many places by courts and other forms of public policy. on your second point on potency, it is true cannabis sold and dispensaries tends to be more potent than you would find at the street level and certainly more potent than 30 to 40 years ago. i think it is important for consumer protection and consumer purchasing those cannabis, to understand that.

it is clearly labeled on legal cannabis products the potency of the product. you can had conversations with the individuals on -- at the dispensary to figure out how much you might need to take, how , and the rule tends to be going slowly. if you are smoking cannabis, take one or two hits to see how it affects you before you go further. it is important to remember, particularly with smoked or vap ed cannabis, the body has a self-regulation process. if you have higher potent cannabis, you're not going to need as much as low potent cannabis. while it is more potent, there are ways to use it in a responsible manner. host: kathy is calling from texas who opposes legalization of marijuana. hi, kathy. caller: hello. was ad like to say that i

dui speaker for 20 years, and i don't think legalizing cannabis would help the problem at all. most of the people around odessa , eight out of 10, have been and get every week pulled over. now, you add cannabis to that, i think it will ruin our society. i think they need to care more about other people than big businesses. host: kathy, think you for calling. john hudak, what can you tell us about health risks of marijuana, when you compare to alcohol or other kinds of substances? what should people know? guest: it is important to remember a few things about cannabis. first, cannabis can be addicting. we know it is a real issue, about one in 11 american who use cannabis regularly will develop

signs of cannabis use disorder. that is something that needs to be treated. there are treatment programs in the united states. it is not something to shy away from, and to recognize states that legalized cannabis, it is important to put funding into that but also states that have not should also do that, too. to kathy's point, it is important to remember that legalizing cannabis does not introduce it into communities. cannabis is already in communities. people making poor choices on cannabis are already doing that. it's important to recognize the types of protections kathy talked about against drunk driving, etc., you should be implementing that as a state or locality, those policies against that, and working hard to deal with that, regardless of whether cannabis is legal or not. i think sometimes that conversation leads to the idea

that if we legalize, suddenly cannabis pops up. no, legal cannabis pops up but you legal has been there -- but illegal has been there all along and most widely used substance. host: you said places have had problems once they got started. give us a snapshot of how states like that have dealt with problems that come up. guest: colorado and washington where the first states to legalize cannabis. their commercial markets got up and running in 2014 area what we saw from the states early on were increases in driving under the influence of cannabis in traffic fatalities, and it was a concern in those states of of what was going on. we found, after the first year or two years, that that number started to come down. it is important to understand what caused that recession in

drugged driving or cannabis involved traffic fatalities. part of it could be people began to respond to consumer information and government programs around safer driving. people began to adjust to the new reality in the state and understand the products. it is their responsibility as legal cannabis users with it. what is important you remember is those states cannot back away from those types of information and add and pains area that needs to be an ongoing process to try to protect both the cannabis user but also the other individuals with you that cannibals -- cannabis user will interact with. host: i want to read you something, wrote in the current.com. no state presents a better example of legalization in california. it's marijuana industry is barely three years old and facing extinction due to its

failure to compete with the illicit market. governor newsom is sending in the national guard to combat illegal operations. law enforcement found foreign cartel running a trafficking organization out of suburban housing developments and utilizing indentured servants as workers. if this crime isn't enough to convince lawmakers that marijuana commercialization is not over, perhaps the potential loss of life will. what would you say to that? guest: i tend not to try to craft public policy based on anecdote or hyperbole. what i will say is that california certainly has challenges. many states that legalize challenges -- legalize cannabis have challenges. the state needs to be a fox -- effective and responsive when dealing with those challenges. california had a slow go with issues around licensing and the black market. that is all true, but as time goes on, california is improving the manner in which it is

legalized in the manner in which countering public policy is natural. throw the baby out with the bathwater and say this prohibition is a better alternative to trying to get it right. it does not meet muster. it does not reflect the values and beliefs and preferences of voters in california and across the country. california did not get it perfect on the first try. as well as other states did. the effort should not be to revert back to a drug war that imprisons hundreds of thousands of people of color every year. the reversion -- the step forward should be towards better public policy. more informed, more responsive public policy. host: blake from mississippi supporting legalization. caller: good morning. john, i want to explain to you

the reason slavery lasted so long. the people that benefited from -- yousuffering from it expect them to change it? they are not having their careers we went. they are not having their lives destroyed. they will not be the ones to make it necessary. this is killing the black community. -- we see them as shining examples but they were drug dealers. they were pushing alcohol. alcohol is 1000 times worse. you have these people in the south and all over this nation who know they can use that to discredit and deprive black people of the freedom of their livelihood, and they will use that. descendents of these people racists are still alive.

don't be surprised if it continues on. that is why slavery lasted for hundreds of years. -- everybody is out to destroy and hurt black and brown people. argument tomake an keep something like this that is destroying people's lives? how can you keep alcohol legal? host: we do get your point. fromnt to get a response john hudak. guest: your concerns are important ones and the ones having in increasing voice in the conversation about cannabis legalization, race and the drug law. there are two parts that are important. first is how drug enforcement happened. black americans are about 3.8 times more likely than white americans to be arrested for a cannabis crime even though black

americans and white americans use cannabis at about the same right. the drug war -- the same right. -- rate. it has held down communities. drug laws were designed specifically to promote racism and institutionalize it in law enforcement. it is perpetrated everyday on the streets across america. it is true in states where it is legalized and states where it is illegal. in states where it is legalized the arrests have come down but the disparity has not changed. it shows the institutionalization of racism in our nation's drug enforcement, both at the federal and state level. the second part to that is that as we have seen legalization play out we know legalization, the corporate side, is not empowering black and brown americans.

it is not helping the communities harmed most by the war on drugs, by cannabis prohibition. a lot of white, wealthy men benefiting from legalization. there are states and localities now taking steps to try to deal with unfortunate outcome, to get greater equity and quality in the cannabis industry for black americans, latinos, women, new entrepreneurs, veterans, etc. host: let's take a call from steven and los angeles, they support of legalization. caller: good morning. generaleel like in having drugs be a system where it is not being federally mandated and having them go outside other countries or the cartels to get drugs is not a good idea. andwouldn't you want that deal with it ourselves as opposed to going to places they might not be as safe or people

are not always getting a great drug? drugs in general probably should be federally mandated. that is all i have. host: john hudak? oregonon election day, took a step in the direction towards the point you are making in decriminalizing, not legalizing, but reducing penalties for the possession of small amounts of other drugs beyond cannabis, which is already legal in oregon to the equivalent of a speeding ticket or traffic ticket. part of that conversation is around the idea we need to stop criminalizing drug use and start treating addiction as a public health crisis that it is and start treating casual use not as something that is going to ruin the rest of your life and put you in jail. theink your concern about flow of illicit drugs from other

countries and cartels is an important one. it is true for cannabis, cocaine, heroin and other opiates. they are coming in from other countries, often times untested and impure. -- its what we are seeing is not necessarily the drug itself. it is not understanding what is in the drug and not having proper education about the use of that drug. some states are working in a direction towards greater drug reform. i think we need to recognize the crisis that exists. foreign actors are shipping large amounts of unregulated substances into the united states and the victims are unwitting americans. host: are there states that have put forth recreational marijuana legalization on the ballot and has failed? guest: not this year.

all the ballot initiatives this year passed. arizona couple years ago voted on legalization and it felt short by just about one or two points. they came back this year and voted overwhelmingly by a 60-40 margin to do it, to legalize. ballot initiatives fail sometimes but the vast majority, particularly around medical cannabis and adult use cannabis are passing in increasingly so. host: what other states are you watching? guest: one interesting aspect is we are running out of states with ballot initiatives. not every state has a process in place. couple of states like nebraska saw the bell initiatives get kicked off the ballot before election day. i think states like that, nebraska, missouri, you will see

a resurgence moving forward towards this. towards reform. what we are starting to see increasingly is states follow the lead of illinois and vermont, to use the legislative process to do this. that begins now in new jersey. new jersey past their ballot on election day. it requires, commands the new jersey legislature to pass a set of laws that sets up the system. new jersey is in the midst of doing that. it's neighbors are considering legalization. new york, pennsylvania, connecticut, rhode island. other states are going to go the legislative route. while their efforts have tended to fail so far, over time we will seek more states reform lost by legislation and less so by ballot initiative. host: you mentioned the medical community might not know enough about the impact of widespread marijuana use. how much money is being spent on research? where is the money coming from? is more needed?

guest: definitely more is needed. funding is coming from private sources, from government sources. we have always sent research on cannabis in this country. most of the research on cannabis was focused on the harm, the problem. developingon the brain, pregnant women, women who were nursing, the effect of long-term use and heavy use. those are important issues to address. efficacy the medical benefits of cannabis. over 200 million americans live in states with legal medical cannabis. understanding exactly how cannabis can be used in the treatment of disorders and diseases, what types of interactions it might have with other substances, those are important medical efforts, medical research efforts. we are seeing more and more of it. we will see more of it if the government would take common sense steps towards improving

and easing the restrictions that exist on cannabis research, including moving it from schedule one, the highest level of control. that would allow researchers who want to work with the drug to faceless bureaucratic red tape and lower the cost of conducting the research. there is an effort currently before the justice department to expand the number of federally regulated growth facilities to produce cannabis for research. currently there is only one at the university of mississippi that the trump justice department expanded the number of grow operations. cat are currently more than three dozen before the justice department that have not gotten any decision made on it. a future administration could easily begin to expand the growth of research which will only improve the ability of researchers to conduct research on the plant. host: luis in oregon, a

supporter of legalization. caller: hi there. i have been using marijuana for 53 years. i was a heavily abused child. of course i was kind of a nervous wreck. marijuana has done nothing but help me with my nerves, being calm, including when i'm driving. studies have been coming up that studied marijuana drivers. we drive slower and more carefully. is the exact opposite of drunk drivers. i have lost many friends to alcohol, not a single one to pot. this business about accidents or marijuana, they are not from marijuana use. people are using marijuana when they are drinking and then they go they had an accident from the marijuana. no, it is from the alcohol. it's the exact opposite. thank you. i sure hope we can get folks out of jail.

louise.ank you, guest: thank you for getting up early with us this morning. it's important to caution that drivers using cannabis are driving less safe than drivers who are not using cannabis. studies demonstrate that. the comparison with alcohol is an important one. drivers driving drunk are certainly very unsafe. we should not conflate that with the idea that a cannabis-impaired driver is a safe driver. i would caution against driving of the influence of any substance and cannabis is included in the conversation. host: harry from preston, maryland. you are not sure about this issue. caller: i wanted to make a comment about a couple of things first before i get onto that. hudak mentioned older white

people or men betty finney from the grow up or -- or men benefiting from the grow operation. person that used marijuana. they ended up developing a panic disorder. to functiont able basically. they needed a lot of mental help to get back on track. i think there is probably going to be some mental health issues caused by the use of it. from case, i suffer peripheral neuropathy real bad. take lyrica. -- adema. dema. it would be nice if there was research done to extract the

active ingredients of it to benefit. a person like myself and not be able to smoke it either. host: final thought from john hudak on the legalization efforts around the country on marijuana. tell us what you see in the future. guest: it is obvious that america is ready to be done with cannabis prohibition. it is ready to move forward with some other type of reform. it will be justice-oriented and inclusive and responsive to the harms the drug war has caused. particularly for communities of color, but really for all americans. we have an opportunity moving forward in the final days of the trump administration and into the biden administration to think differently about cannabis reform and cannabis in general, can think about the ways in which our nation's laws can improve the lot for americans who have been hurt for so long. it's important to safeguard

against the challenges cannabis can bring but it's important to think differently about our nation's drug laws. just because they have been around for 100 years does not make them right. if you read my book, you will see the impetus of our nation's drug laws were rooted in racism. we are in a moment where we are thinking different the issues of race. part of that conversation around race has to include cannabis and drug enforcement in general. the biden administration has a real opportunity to do something about this. cannabis specifically and drug policy generally must be part of a comprehensive conversation about criminal justice in the united states. host: john hudak, senior fellow of studiesof -- area at the brookings institute. thank you for your time this morning and all the insight into this issue. guest: thank you. host: we have about an hour and a quarter left.

it is small business saturday in the united states. we will spend the rest of the program on that topic. we will have a guest from the main street alliance coming up in half an hour. once we take a short break we will return to your calls on small business issues. what are the conditions for small business in your area? we look forward to talking to you. ♪ >> the u.s. supreme court hears oral arguments in trump v new york on monday at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. the court will hear if president trump has the authority to exclude undocumented individuals living in the u.s. from the census apportionment. listen live at 10:00 a.m.

c-span,on monday on c-span.org, or the c-span radio app. mnuchin andsteve federal reserve chairman jerome powell testified before the senate banking committee and providing an update on emergency against the economic downturn caused by the coronavirus pandemic. c-span, c-span.org, or listen live on the c-span radio app. with coronavirus cases increasing across the country, use our website, c-span.org /coronavirus to follow the trends, track the spread with interactive maps, and watch updates on demand, anytime at c-span.org/coronavirus. washington journal continues.

host: it is small business saturday. this is a chance for you to call in and tell us about the state of small business in your area. if you work at a small business or own one, shop at one, this is a good time to call in. we will have a guest, amanda ballantyne, coming on it 9:15 tell us about small business in the country. cbs news says small business saturday could make or break local stores across the u.s. they published a survey. two out of three people are very or somewhat likely to shop at a small business. seven in 10 say it's more important to support a small business and to get the best deal. the stakes are higher than ever as owners of small businesses make last-ditch efforts to reduce sales lost to the pandemic. every day of the year is important for small business, but small business saturday,

which was launched by american express a decade ago, is poignant this holiday season with record numbers of small businesses suffering financially . consider more than 100,000 small businesses have already shuddered during the pandemic with more on the way. total small business revenue plunged 32% as of november 16. that is from january levels. one in five business owners will have to shut down if economic conditions don't improve within six months, according to a survey from the nfib. john is on the line to talk about small business in dearborn heights. good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i wanted to make a quick comment. i live in the michigan area. there are shutdowns here. one thing most disturbing to me that was not commented on in legacy media with governor newsom and his controversy about not socially distancing was

everyone brushed it off. he apologize, etc. what that tells me is he does not believe any of this is real. if this was really serious and the hospitals were being overrun and this was scary, he would not risk doing that, among other people higher up in power. i think that is kind of perplexing no one is talking about that. host: how much of your shopping do you do as small businesses? caller: probably both. it is just really sad here in michigan. people spend their whole lives building a sports bar or some kind of small business, what have you. a lot of them have just gone under. it is really what the american story is about. coming from wherever you come from and starting a business for your family or your neighborhood. i think it is tragic but thank

you for c-span. host: are you still there? caller: yes. does washington have in all of this, do you think? caller: as far as the senate and the house? host: do they have a role in propping up small businesses right now? caller: the relationship between government, the federal government and business for a myriad of reasons should probably be small. i think during the recession, the 2009 recession, the government bailed out too many businesses. if you are a bad business and you don't save your money or operate responsibly, you should probably go out of business. host: thanks a lot. silver spring, maryland. joel, what would you like to say? caller: i would like to speak up oursupport of the save

-- act. venues are small businesses. this -- they are really running on fumes, except to virginia here the restrictions are a little looser. as someone who is a great supporter of a live, local music scene in the d.c. area, i think thes critical for entertainment venues to be saved. not everything -- it is not necessarily required or essential but it is something that is part of the culture. host: do you believe in shutdowns? are they helpful? would you advocate more shutdowns? basically i would say

point i think we could probably pull back on shutdowns because i think right now there are restrictions in the d.c. area that are so know, ie that, you don't think it is necessary in this area. host: thank you for calling this morning. bill from south florida. go ahead. caller: hi. i want to make a couple of comments. closure of many of these businesses, there is absolutely not much evidence the has really impacted

spread. my main point is this. even if these restaurants are open, that doesn't mean people are going in. i and my son went into a restaurant. this was one thing that was open. they were seating for 200. nd two others ad people in the restaurant and this is a very successful restaurant. in other words, people are intelligent. people listen to the news. they know what is going on. people, theof these closing of all these establishments, in my view it has done more harm than just informing the public of what the

situation is. that is my comment. host: thanks for calling this morning. the folks at goldman sachs at their website have the results of a survey as well. they call small businesses sinking like boats. they are struggling to stay afloat while awaiting federal aid. 96% say it's important for republicans and democrats to turn a page on artisan politics and pass bipartisan legislation and provide relief for american small businesses. some details of the study look like this. owners continue to suffer. offhave been forced to lay employees or cut employee compensation. 20% say the legislative uncertainty has caused them to consider closing to businesses. 52% have forgone paying themselves. 33% have dipped into personal savings to stay operational. some details from a recent survey at goldman sachs. evan from fairfield, indiana.

good morning. tell us about small business in fairfield. caller: i'm really in schererville. host: happy to have you either way. tell us what is going on. caller: businesses, small businesses, grocery stores and things like that, other than the big package stores and big-box stores are having a hard time. my son is in a small business. he is back in a family business. betrays used cars between dealers -- he trades used cars between dealers. my great-grandfather was a horse trader after he got out of the civil war army. know he was in the trucking

business until the great recession. he started when he came out of the coast guard when he was 22 years old. i and 83. you can guess how old he is now -- i am 83. small businesses are like the trucking companies. they are essential to the area. if you have got the income tax and can't make a living. he was put out of business by the recession in 2008. thank you for calling. kevin mccarthy, minority leader in the house, tweets this morning about small business saturday. thousands of small businesses are in danger of closing their doors forever. pelosi won't lift a finger to help. democrats have blocked eight small business workers 40 times. do it democrats refuse to do. support a small business today.

we heard from nancy pelosi earlier in the show from a briefing this week about the status of release talks. you can watch that full briefing at our website, c-span.org. we will hear from the speaker now as well as far as what she said about the ongoing negotiations. [video] >> and another misguided active irresponsibility, secretary mnuchin said he would end many critical emergency lending initiatives at the end of the year. why would they do that? drawing a rare rebuke from the senate. that really speaks out. the fed said it would prefer the full suite of emergency in theies established coronavirus pandemic to continue to serve their important roles for are still

strained and vulnerable economy. the fed. would prefer the full suite established continue to serve the important role as a backdrop for our strange and vulnerable economy. -- strained and vulnerable economy. highly unusual for the fed to comment on that manner on something said by the secretary of the treasury. again, why? why? because they want to impede the ability of the next administration to have everything available to them. host: part of the ongoing dialogue any potential new stimulus package. in recent weeks and months there has not been a major bill. there is potential for that when they come back into the lame-duck or next year with the new congress. we shall see.

steve from mount vernon, new york. good morning. friend who owns a restaurant. he had to close up. you can't have it both ways. you have pelosi saying the stingless package doesn't cover enough. what good is it? it's like having a 200-seat restaurant and only having three or four people in there. it's not conducive. mcconnell and the republicans, mnuchin, they are blocking all these things that can help the people in the way it needs to be done. that is my statement. host: thank you for calling. madeline from navasota, texas. caller: this is kathleen again. hello. host: go ahead please. caller: the small business in my town, this little navasota town, they shut down. magnolia shut down.

nou can't even get to brya because they won't allow people to go from one county to the other because of coronavirus. the hospitals are cutting down. downthing is going to hell here in texas. i am sorry. i like the republicans. but the democrats, i wish they would get it together. richall that money to the and say sorry, there is nothing for the poor. go to the food pantry and get you something for your kids. host: with things closing down where are you doing your shopping? caller: me and sisters on social security, they gave me $48 a month in food stamps. how can you live on $40 a month in food stamps? host: thank you for calling. kevin from montana, small business owner. what kind of business are you

went? -- in? caller: we run a little motel. it is slow. we had a couple of months this summer that were pretty good. we are right by glacier park. i would like to comment on the last caller in the first segment. he had it spot on. this shopping season here, people really need to look at the labels. try to buy american. buyhey can't buy american, it anywhere but from china. we need to hold the people accountable. thank you. host: thanks for calling. in theosen has a piece retail area of the new york times. nine ways to support small businesses. in the early weeks of the

pandemic consumers buoyed small businesses with gift card purchases and online fundraising campaigns. many independent businesses continue to struggle. owners are coming up with strategies to keep businesses afloat which benefit consumers, providers, and neighborhoods. some multiplier effects. a group helps small businesses market. an owner might hire a local accountant. success of one business can steamroll through the economy. they list nine ways to support small businesses. it includes offering your skills as an accountant, lawyer, banker, digital marketing specialist. small businesses may appreciate the help. they suggest being social. social media presence.

proprietors are under enormous so support them wherever you can. loyalty counts. they want you to come back when it is time to come back to those places. that is from the new york times. laura, spokane, washington. caller: good morning. calling is iam don't see this as community spirit letting small business down. it, a lot of, what you call this area over a virus that has -- hysteria over a virus with a .8% mortality rate. i don't understand why the politicians make these ridiculous rules and shut them down, putting tons of regulations on them, and say now pay your taxes.

i just don't get it. we need to confront it. we don't need to run away from it. spokaneat do you see in in terms of small businesses? do you shop a small businesses? caller: yes. host: what do you see these days? caller: i see a lot of no lights on. desperatet of very small businesses that are just getting -- they just don't deserve it. the more and more the regulations come down and all this other stuff, when we can deal with it, confront it, deal with it. the government just steps right in the way and says stay home, put your mask on, distance. we have done all that. it has not done any good. it is a .8% mortality rate. not 10% or anything like that.

suggestion would be that pelosi said herself down and quit playing politics with our lives, the lives of these people. that is my comment. thank you so much. host: we have christine from indiana. caller: yes. i was calling to find out. i know this coincides with the but forrson talking small businesses that are like apartments, small apartment complexes, not the big business ones, are the states that are allowing legalizing marijuana laws for the businesses that don't want marijuana?

are they going to make it illegal for people to not be able to -- are they going to allow it to be illegal for those that don't want marijuana smoked around their buildings because it gives everybody high within the building? host: what you think will happen? caller: either they cannot legalize smoking marijuana or they have to segregate buildings, have separate buildings or people that do and people that don't because it seeps through the walls. host: got the point. a couple of colors inching mitch mcconnell from kentucky -- mentioning mitch mcconnell from kentucky. [video] publicly,n what i see because it had no private discussions about this, it looks to me like the speaker and the democratic leader of the senate

and former vice president biden $2.5ave the view that trillion or nothing. i share the view of my colleagues expressed here. a more narrowly targeted proposal such as we laid out in september and october in the senate deals with the actual problem. as some of you may have not noticed, revenues at the state level are basically up almost everywhere. they continue to insist apparently almost on a trillion dollars that has nothing to do with solving this problem. to sum it up, i'm open to a targeted bill roughly of the amount we recommended. half a trillion dollars which is nothing. narrowly targeted at schools, and health care providers, at

ppp, and of course liability reform to keep america from being engaged in an epidemic of lawsuits on the heels of the pandemic. very open to that. yet, aseen no evidence several of my colleagues have suggested, that they are open to it. host: mitch mcconnell from earlier this week. president trump lending his voice. the restaurant business is being absolutely decimated. congress should step up and help. timing is of the essence. a few more of your calls on the status small business around america on this small business saturday. larry from albany, georgia. caller: good morning. business.mall lodge i was trying to get that stimulus package in july. a $10,000 fund.

moneyay they gave out the but they arrested a lot of people. i want to say this to the american people right now who don't understand how the congress and senate works. the job was to allocate so much money and give it to the senate for mitch mcconnell and for.dent trump to sign congress nancy pelosi has done her job. she gave a check to them to allocate for the american people, small business owners, and people who are buying homes. but mitch mcconnell and donald trump have not signed that check to go out to you. that is what congress do. see, now, from what i can they are turning every thing against the congress which is making it seem like it is their problem, their fault.

remember, congress allocated that money to the senate. mitch mcconnell's job is to send it out and he is not allowing it to go out. his talking point on helping the american people, if you listen to his talking points, you will see mitch mcconnell has not got anything new for the american people are anyone else. host: moving on to minneapolis. small business owner. what is your name? caller: claudia. host: go ahead please. caller: i wanted to say our governor has been a dictator. the fact he is closing of the small businesses and he has no science behind it. you -- he can give you absolutely nothing that lets him go ahead and close down these places. but he is doing is making them

all get onto welfare and government entitlements. that they are going to use that against us that they can force a vaccine. host: what kind of business are you in? caller: a small shop that smells different things. right now we are still open and we don't know when he is going well.se us down as we know for a fact that there -- been nothing but absolute the restaurants are doing nothing but following the minnesota department of health. we have not been able to sit next to each other in restaurants. they followed it to a t. sitting even outdoors, which is ridiculous, because sitting outdoors does not spread anything. they all the protesters to give outdoors.

there is no doubt there is no science behind what they are doing. they are just trying to absolutely demoralize people so they will be forced to use the vaccine. that will be beyond their control because people are so tired that they want to move on. they will move on with whatever when they become so demoralized as they are doing this. our governor is a dictator from hell. -- if he is in florida, you guys need to show that on your next segment. now he is doing exactly what he is telling everyone else not to do. host: michael from saratoga, california. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. small business owners i have talked to are asking who is benefiting from this decimation of small businesses. the answer seems to be big corporations.

the government is supposed to protect the american people from these corporations but they are not doing that at all. gone,mall business is only the big corporations are left over. , working in san francisco, if you want to talk with them there is no interaction. they don't face their customers anymore. we get to talk to people in india and places like that. the arrogance of these people as they clamped down this phony martial law, what evidence of the pandemic -- imagine the virus is so bad i have to get tested to find out if i have it. it's malarkey. host: thank you for calling. businessese on small coming up. two questions can be answered by@with amazed --by amanda with the main street

alliance. your calls and questions coming up in just a moment. ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. coming up today at 7:00 p.m. eastern, an interview on leadership with james baker, who served as secretary of state under george h w bush and as ronald reagan's white house chief of staff and treasury secretary. at 8:00 p.m. on pictures and history, eastern connecticut professor on the close and remit relationship between two prominent mid-19th century politicians, james buchanan, the 15th president, and william

rufus king who served briefly as vice president under buchanan's predecessor franklin pierce. sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on american artifacts we explore jfk assassination records from the national archives, including iconic artifacts such as lee harvey all sold's rifle -- oswald's rifle, the magic bullet, and the eight millimeter film taken by abraham's up router. at 8:00 p.m., a virtual tour the ronald reagan presidential library located in simi valley, california. explore the american story. watch american history tv today on c-span3. washington journal continues. host: joining us now is amanda ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance talking about the pandemic's impact on small business.

amanda ballantyne, what is the main street alliance? how are you funded? guest: it's a national network of small business owners around the country. we work to advocate for a real voice for small business owners in policymaking. we have a variety of funding sources. our members, partners, allies work together to move our agenda forward. host: do businesses paid money to be part of the alliance? guest: we don't have a membership fee but many contribute and donate to our organization. host: on this small business saturday, explained the definition of a small business. how important are they to the u.s. economy? guest: small businesses, according to the department of labor, are any business under 500 employees. that's actually a huge number of businesses in this country, a vast majority of businesses.

small businesses employ nearly half of the private sector workforce in the country. isusiness of 500 employees what most people would consider to be more of a midsize business. when people think of a small business, they are thinking of local independent shops, repair shops, bookstores, restaurants. those of the businesses we advocate for. host: who started small business saturday ny? -- and why? supportyou continue to small businesses after saturday? guest: i believe it was started by american express to encourage people to shop at their local small businesses. it's a great effort. the holiday season is one of the most important revenue-generating periods for small retailers in this country. encouraging people and having public campaigns to make sure to remind people that if we really

want to have these diverse, vibrant businesses, we have to get out and support them and not just order on amazon. many people participate. main street alliance is pushing we do more than just shop small. that we actually contact congress and ask them to support small businesses by passing an additional relief package that would really provide a buoy of support for small businesses and impacted industries suffered from the impact of covid. host: looking forward to more of your calls for our guest, amanda ballantyne. the three lines we will put on. small business owners, call (202) 748-8000. that is for the owners. if you are an employee, (202) 748-8001. everyone else, (202) 748-8002. we will get those calls going as soon as they start coming in and see if there is any social media input for our guest.

@, if we were sit --amanda ballantyne, if we were sitting here a year ago, we would have already been talking about small businesses struggling. what has the pandemic done to them? guest: in certain industries, small shops, it has been devastating. it is hard to underestimate the impact small business owners have experienced since february and march of last year. it has been a real roller coaster. there have been public shutdowns of businesses, a huge decrease in consumer demand for small businesses. and we have seen nearly a quarter million small businesses close. there is a question about how many have closed permanently versus how many have closed temporarily. we do know that there is a massive decrease in revenue for small businesses between 23% and

30%. we hone in on restaurants and hospitality. that is closer to 60% decline in revenue. it's a series of shots. i would say the federal relief and state relief programs have helped but they have long since expired or run out of the funding small businesses are needing to pay fixed costs, retrofit for safety and be able to weather the storm. host: what would be the broad outlines of a bill if washington can't come up with another large or larger piece of legislation? what else is needed? guest: the thing small businesses really need our grants. they need subsidies to support. it's of time where they have -- support when they have periods of times when they are closed for safety purposes and cover the fixed costs from the last

nine months of slowed down operations. programsa great set of and the heroes act. summer industry-specific. summer fixing the paycheck protection program which did help many businesses but was very flawed and excluded a lot of business owners. we would say take a look at the heroes act in the legislation focusing on small businesses is very strong. focus on grants for various small businesses and impacted businesses. also ensure we have legislation in place to get the virus under control. that we are extending emergency unappointed benefits to ensure consumers are still able to spend in the local economy, and really supporting state and local governments and the important programs they have for education and health and safety. those are the types of programs that can provide relief owners need to weather the next -- it

will be three or four month at least and maybe longer until a vaccine is widely available. host: the first call is harold from palmdale, california. caller: good morning. do small businesses have the right to open under protest? maybe through the month of december? to stay open with common sense and with their own discretion and just open it up themselves without listening to governors? mayors, where are these taxes going to come from after these small businesses are gone? are the governors and mayors thinking of this? host: amanda ballantyne? guest: there is a set of laws in different jurisdictions around the country that small business owners need to pay attention to and follow. there are places where businesses are find operate no

matter what industry. certain industries have been closed or partially closed or have limited operations for public health and safety reasons. we certainly advise business owners to follow the law. your question about taxes is a good one. it points to the really good role the federal government needs to play in leveling the playing field during this pandemic. large corporations like amazon and walmart and costco have made billions of dollars as small businesses have struggled. the answer is to ensure there aren't companies able to profiteer off the pandemic and we are providing resources small businesses need to remain competitive. the federal government has an important role to play in making sure that happens. , one amanda ballantyne very drills down more on the definition of a small business. lb writes that classification

is ridiculous. fewer than 50 employees should be the guideline, not 500 or less. mom-and-pop businesses don't have the capacity to even apply for some of these loans and they are the ones that really need it. zeroing in on the 500 figure. what are your thoughts on that concern? guest: that's really important point. many federal and state programs designed to help small businesses are really designed for much larger businesses. smalleds and interests of businesses of 50, 25 employees, 10 and fewer, are very different than the businesses with 500 employees. we think there should be special programs designed for micro businesses and very small businesses. error and federal policy not to design programs more specifically for small

businesses that help businesses grow at different stages in their cycle and also support businesses that may always remain small. host: do states have those kind of programs you are speaking to and the resources to run them? guest: the state and federal governments, there is a lot of cooperation and participation around small business development. much of that money runs through economic development programs. states have a role to play. in this moment states are extremely stretched for cash. they have been pushing out a lot of support for small businesses. he really is local and state support that got many businesses through. that money is drying up, which is why we need to see federal action and very soon. host: john in murdock, nebraska. go ahead please. caller: good morning. what seems to be first

consistently frustrating is -- unfortunate circumstance with people facing this virus and society today and twisting that into a mechanism to bailout states like california, new york, illinois for the repeated irresponsible fiscal behavior. there seems to be this massive increase in testing, which appears to be revealing increasing cases, which is building the case to make this display for the macon people to try to fleece us further and allow them to have the keys to the person of this nation to bailout these liberal states that have imposed circumstances upon the people that have

created financial nightmares. thank you. host: amanda ballantyne? guest: it's important to look at the science when we assess the impact of the virus. you can look both at data and public science that shows how the virus has been impacting cities and states. also look at economic data. supporting small businesses and providing additional stimulus now will help the economy recover faster. that is what we are advocating for. host: steve from st. charles, missouri. caller: good morning. sure how to'm not describe myself. i derive my income from a few rental properties i have. i have 30%pandemic of my properties not paying. i want to know how the

government can make me subsidize their programs. host: anything else? explain your question again. caller: i derive my income from a few rental properties i have. 30% of my tenants are now not paying, even though they are either working or collecting unemployment. i want to know how the government can impose whatever programs they wish to push on me. guest: are you talking about the eviction moratoriums? caller: yes. host: thank you for clarifying, steve. amanda ballantyne? important,ink it's and this is really important. a ghost of a number of issues. there is a there is a

very strong public interest in keeping people housed during the pandemic. and that interest should extend through landlords who are deriving their income from small -- from rental properties. many landlords are able to negotiate a forbearance from their mortgage companies, and i that is something that you should certainly pursue if you have not. federal relief and support should be provided either through their ppp or a grant based loan program that can help you make up your business income during this period of time. without that type of public policy, really, it is a challenge, and it is a challenge that creates a chain reaction, which is another reason why we need to see federal relief programs designed to help and support small businesses, because landlords and small landlords really are small businesses and are struggling

during this time. host: we have a text from ragan lexington, kentucky. he says we try to patronize small businesses. however, they have raised their prices so high to make up for lost revenue, we cannot afford it. more of the economic dynamic going on in the country. guest: it is true that large companies tend to have more ability to reduce prices. i think we have public policy in place in this country that sets a playing field against small businesses in a lot of ways. sometimes, it is more expensive to shop locally. but i think it is an important choice to make as a consumer, because it contributes to the overall health and well-being of our entire community. and it ensures that we have diverse local options. and it is not just the corporations that can play in the marketplace. host: our guest is amanda

ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance. main street -- mainstreetallia .ce.org is the website beyond this crisis that is happening right now, how does the country build a more resilient, equitable small business economy? guest: that is a great question. i think the incoming biden tremendousion has a opportunity not only to come in and ensure relief for small businesses but also -- howndamentally reshaping credit to access works. the caller who mentioned business size, how important it is to think about is in size when developing public policy programs, that person is onto something. if we were designing -- if we were designing significant programs right now that were targeting micro-entrepreneurs,

one-person, two-person, three-person businesses come up to 10 and 25, and providing small loans that help them grow their businesses at specific periods by purchasing equipment and other things, loans that are really tailored for businesses of that size, and working to break down the racial disparities in lending by using public programs rather than private banks, you would see, i think, a dramatic increase in entrepreneurship. that can be, also, improved by providing a set of safety net features for small businesses, including things like universal health care and publicly supported childcare. these are huge costs for there were that, if more public programs that provided these types of programs, more people could choose entrepreneurship. so i think there is a set of programs both in the access to credit and the capital space, but also in ensuring a safety net for people who want to take the risk and go out on their own

-- they could really change the way that opportunity works in this country and make it more available to people who do not have pre-existing wealth in their personal networks. host: back to your calls on small business saturday. ellen -- helen is calling. caller: good morning. i wanted to mention about what is really happening with the small restaurants. they have curbside -- people call in for their orders. they do not have to go inside. and another thing, what they do, art fining people for not having a mask. $2000 and things like that, they are really getting the people that are fighting each other and ifot wearing a mask they only do their job of keeping the mask on or carrying it with them, they do stop them,

you know, before they enter a place here, however, there is a lot of things that are going on as far as -- you have to agree with me about trump. he did start it. he said ok, we just have a small flu thing. he did not believe it, did not care to believe it. since biden came in, he wanted to start. he said let's get rid of this virus. let's stop it by wearing the went out to all of these places, all the states, to voting and send in their votes, and all of a sudden , they're sending them in, he got mad. know,just that biden, you

had cars coming up, meeting with him. believed.never and you have to agree -- like i said, he never agreed that the virus was going to be as bad. host: thank you for joining us this morning. amanda ballantyne, take us a little deeper into the world of the restaurants in the country, especially the smaller ones, the locally owned. in general, how are they doing? the last caller mentioned curbside service or delivery service. in general, how are they doing and can they survive? guest: the restaurant industry has always been an industry that functions on very thin margins. the covid pandemic has been catastrophic for many restaurants in this country. you have also seen kind -- creative entrepreneurship. small, local restaurants working to develop curbside pickup or

other types of delivery options. pop-ups. shifting to home food delivery rather than just restaurant meals. there has been a lot of creative work to try and develop different business models that function during this time. the restaurant industry employers probably 15 million people, many, many people. when you look at the restaurant industry, you have to look not just at restaurant owners but also the people who work in restaurants, who have -- the majority of restaurants have had to lay off most the entire workforce. they are operating on skeletal staff, just cooking and doing delivery. unless they are able to open. i think many restaurants were able to open over the summer it safely. that is shifting now as the weather turns cold and of the virus is spiking. i think many restaurants who got a bounce over the summer and were able to hire back staff are shifting back to sort of

emergency operation mode. it is very, very tough. and i think it is important to understand most business owners in the country believe that there would be another covid relief package in august or september, and then they were holding out until after the election. now it is starting to look like there may not be another relief package until after the start of the new year. this is a real crisis in the restaurant industry. and it is a real crisis particularly for independent restaurants who are still having to pay rent, having to pay for equipment rental, and they are still having, in many high rent cities, just tremendous costs, that these thin business models could get them through for shorter periods of time. but it is going to be a year, more than a year, before there is a widespread vaccine. a roller coaster for restaurant owners, and they are definitely not out of the

woods, and they certainly need federal support. host: back to congress and the federal support, we know in number of deadlines are expiring at the end of this year, programs i've been helping various folks. one is that family first coronavirus response act, expiring at the end of december. can you give us a sense of what that does in particular? what should an extension look like, if you think one is necessary? guest: the family first act provides paid leave time for businesses that are closing down for the employees, when they get covid. importantally, really program. it actually should be made into permanent law, permanent paid family medical leave and permanent sick time would be a huge boost to the small industry -- small business industry, providing benefits they could not otherwise provide on their own. so it definitely needs to continue through covid and

should be made permanent. mountlet's hear from pleasant tennessee, small business owner. what small business do you own? caller: iselle books and work with education program in tennessee. host: do you work with employees? caller: i have a few employees. well. is going fairly i like the way tennessee the stemwithout using money -- that is something that is kind of good and bad. commerce, tennessee does not need the stimulus money. it is running just fine. we just need to stay at home. we do not need to go back into work or we need to remotely work from home.

and it works better for tennessee, because our weather .s not good to go back to work i kind of disagree with donald trump on that, going back to work. that is when it spreads more. but if everybody can be remotely at home and working, you can get it controlled with the virus that way. and then also wearing a mask. host: thank you for calling. amanda ballantyne, any reaction? guest: it is absolutely true that getting the virus under control is a key necessity to getting the small business economy back up and running. i think for people who are able to operate from home or work from home, it is a great thing, because you reduce your risk and reduce the risk imposed to other people. there are a lot of people not able to do that and require businesses -- and businesses that require customers in their stores to make a profit they

need to get by. so i disagree. i think we need more federal stimulus. i think we needed as soon as we can get it. host: do you have a sense of what percentage of businesses have online options for customers, especially in this time of the pandemic, and are those numbers growing? guest: i do not actually have that statistic. but the numbers i know are growing. in our network, i've heard business owners who had never had online shops operating before working to get them up and going. i think there have been some new technologies made available that help businesses. we are seeing a sort of emergence of what form, tech forms, and i think some business owners are nervous that a lot of the fees from doordash and other online platforms are cutting into their profits, and they do not have as much control over the delivery system there. so there is a double-edged sword happening. pandemic wills

uptakee small business of technology. it is something we need to watch and see how it develops. host: let's hear from mike in ohio. caller: good morning. i want to address the situation about some people calling and amount of tax dollars go to the blue states that shut down but you also have a lot of tax dollars that ended up going to red states where people just ignored the science. people just have to look out for each other. we are americans. if you cannot just wear a mask or your neighbor, for your coworker. way inresident trump new advance about this pandemic, and his comment was he did not want americans to panic. what if fdr said we got bombed out earl harbor, but we are as

we got bombed at pearl harbor, but we are not going to tell anyone because we do not want anyone to panic? it is up to each person to decide whether they will panic or not. this is america. you have a right to your information. senate, there and is no reason they should be in recess right now you they should hammering something out while people are hungry and out of work. thank you for letting me comment. host: thank you for calling. let's hear from our guest. guest: i certainly agree that congress should be in session right now, figuring out a federal stimulus bill. it is of rate concern not only that small businesses are struggling as the virus numbers rge, it is also the case there are 20 million unemployed people in the country, and emergency endemic unemployment benefits will be expiring, as well as other critical programs, at the end of the year. that will have a huge impact on

millions of families in the country, and the decline in consumer demand from having less money available in the economy will hit small business hard. it is unconscionable for pandemicto sit on the when so many people are struggling. so we want to see urgent action. it needs to go beyond just shopping locally. people need to call congress, and they need to talk about how important their small businesses are in their unity, how they are the lifeblood and implement centers of the community, and they are really struggling and need support right now. that we saw this story talk specifically about women-owned businesses, the asdline speaks to the story to why women-owned businesses are struggling and how a new round of stimulus could help. subhead says female owned businesses have struggled more

than male owned businesses. talk to us about women-owned businesses and what is unique -- and what unique, special circumstances they face right now. guest: women business owners have traditionally had trouble accessing credit and capital, for the same reason that many asian smalltinx and business owners had trouble accessing the ppp, women in general had trouble as well. part of that is generally businessesen owned tend to be smaller in size, so they either did not qualify for the first round of ppp -- or there are a variety of reasons they were not able to access it. women also tend to bear a lot more spots ability for family and child rearing causes. as businesses are shutting down, schools and daycare's are also shutting down. so it has been hard for many business owners in general, particularly women business owners, to manage family

responsibilities while trying to keep their struggling businesses afloat. it has been a huge challenge. it is something we need to pay attention to. i think this pandemic is impacting women who work in our economy, whether business owners or working women, and we do not want to end up in a situation where the pandemic increases in equity, gender inequity tremendously. we do not want to end up in a position where it increases racial inequity. without programs that are specifically designed to address those issues, that is where we are headed. small business a owner and contacted main street alliance asking for help and support, what does the process look like? how can i benefit from reaching out to you folks? guest: a big part of what main street alliance does as we work with business owners to help them tell their stories in the media and to public policy makers. we are really focused on public policy issues and how about policy needs to be changed to

support small business owners and support entrepreneurship in our economy. when business owners get in touch with us, we certainly connect them to agencies where they can access government support or other types of assistance. but a big part of what we are doing with business owners is collecting their stories and training them to lobby and tell their stories in the past, in public speaking opportunities, and also with their members of congress, so they can be educating public officials about what small businesses really need. org ismainstreetalliance. the website. joining us as the executive director your of main street alliance. up next, john. caller: thank you for taking my call. isive it in upstate, and it -- the economy is really based on tourism, with the late george area. you have all the parks, the

saratoga resources, which did not have people this year. it is not only the small business, it is all the people who worked in those places. all the people who work in those places, those jobs are not coming back. and if you go into any major store and see a cashier that is at a self-service checkout handling 10 or 12 or 11 registers, those jobs are not coming back. and i think that in the state we live in, that is very political -- my point is that someone can go from diagnosis to cure with covid in three days, and then they can go in one day and be totally cured, so why is there such a rush for this cure? i think it is political smoke. even now, if you look up the toll booths, they have raised the rate of the tolls if you do not have an ez-pass.

the states will continue to make money, and they put the individuals and the people against each other and then blame political parties when they fail to take responsibility -- be it democrat or republican, red or blue state, people need to take responsibility for what they have created. host: thank you for calling. guest: there is a lot of frustration right now. there is frustration because the pandemic is just as ongoing crisis, and i think it does vary and how much it impacts people. thes important to look at science and understand the impact on our public health system when hundreds of thousands of people are coming down with covid every day. sure, a lot of people will recover and be fine, but our hospitals are overwhelmed, and the threat to people is very, very significant. it is a huge threat. i think it is true that people are sick of locking down and they are very worried about small businesses in their communities, very worried about

the jobs in their communities. in some ways, the caller is right. a lot of the jobs and a lot of the small businesses, particularly in rural communities, may not come back, unless there is specific public policy designed to help watch printer ship rebuild those local economies. it is also true that, in places where restaurants, bars, ism needs to tour shut down to protect public other safety, there could be public policy designed to help those businesses through the crisis. we have not seen that through the federal government. when you talk about states connecting tax revenue, that is not profit for someone. that is money invested into our economies and schools and roads and infrastructure. it is important that that type of investment is important and it helps small businesses function. urgently needed relief from the federal government, we will continue to see this kind of austerity, and it does not help rebuild

economies or put food on the table. host: back to a survey published by goldman sachs, the impact of rising covid infection rates. 59% say their businesses -- business revenues have been negatively impacted. 86% of those who have been negatively impacted say the decline is due to changing customer behavior. 44% say the design -- the because of state regulations. 96% say now is the time to put politics aside. now.ve sam on the line you are on with amanda ballantyne of the main street alliance. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a comment. i think a lot of small businesses, they -- as you think you are making money, then you go to pay your taxes, and all of a sudden, now, you thought you were making money, and you're not making money, because you

are paying taxes -- unlike donald trump, but some people do pay taxes. they have -- it is called fairtax.org. i think this would stimulate a lot of new businesses, make things simpler. the irs has 70,000 pages. i do not think anybody knows all the irs rules. and then we pay these lobbyists a lot of money, and they run the government. and we could get rid of $10 billion of government expense if we could get rid of the irs. have a federal tax and be able to try to keep somewhat of a balanced budget, although that is ridiculous now. but we need to get a better handle and make things easier for small businesses. host: thank you. amanda ballantyne? guest: i am not familiar with

the tax proposal the caller was talking about, but i do think tax reform is necessary. we need to ensure that large corporations are paying their fair share of taxes. right now, and the tax code, there are a lot of places where large corporations are privileged and small businesses do not have access to that privilege. from hours perfect -- from our perspective, there is a real importance. an hour members believe and are proud to pay taxes, proud to support their communities and the government in that way. there needs to be in either those that if you're making -- there needs to be an ethos that if you're making money, you need to give back. things like childcare, roads, infrastructure, public health and safety. i know small business owners in our network are committed to leveling the playing field for small business and ensuring corporations are paying their fair share. host: let's hear from heidi in

washington, owner of a small business? caller: oh, no, i'm an employee of a small business. host: where do you work and what do you do? caller: i am actually a nursing assistant. i work a woman owned agency. my biggest problem, as an employee, is, you know, i live in a blue state. it is hard work. i get injured. i live in a blue state. when i pay my taxes, i only get 80% back help me and my family when i get injured. then somebody from a red state like nebraska, on average, gets $.20 for every dollar that they pay in. so that is, personally, my employeeroblem, as an

for a small agency, where i am prone to injury. host: let's hear from our guest, amanda ballantyne. guest: so i do not know i can stateto the specifics of tax policy between washington state, where i live, and nebraska. it certainly sounds unfair. i wonder the quality of the areic programs that accessible to you in washington state versus nebraska. but i do think, in general, that there needs to be an effort to get the big corporations that have profited so much since covid started impacting our economy, to ensure that they are paying their fair share of taxes . and also that the federal government is helping support that are really, really straining to support the public programs necessary to keep the

public health and safety in check right now. host: a couple of callers over the course of the morning spoke about loans and their concerns about being able to repay these federal loans they have gotten during this period. how prevalent is that concern and what can people do about it? guest: i think it is an important point and a real concern. from the beginning, main street alliance and our partners and allies in this work have been calling or grants, not loans, just because we knew that, with the pandemic, income and revenue would be so unpredictable and, in some cases, nonexistent. and the type of support businesses need to stay on their feet is really a subsidy, not a loan, for many of these very, very small businesses. we have been advocating for changes to the way their paycheck protection program works that would automatically forgive up to 150 thousand dollars worth of the paycheck protection loan and would ease the requirements for payment.

one good thing is many of the pandemic relief loans have very, very low interest rates. the one hand, on that is a good thing. payment plans can be set up. on the other hand, some of those loans are actually guaranteed by onalness owners' pers finances, so there is particular concern that if businesses move into bankruptcy, they may actually see their personal assets targeted, and that is of rate concern to a lot of people. businessthis small saturday, our guest has been amanda ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance. iance.org is the website to learn more about what the alliance does. thank you for your time and insight. guest: thank you. take care. host: we say thank you to all of our callers who weighed in. we will be back tomorrow, 7:00

eastern, for the sunday edition of "washington journal." enjoy the rest of your day. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] "washington's journal" sunday, first, the republican party and the incoming biden administration with pete wehner. biden and the progressive agenda. we will talk with larry cohen, chair of the political advocacy group our revolution. watch c-span's "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m.

year, ands a historic it happened in the year we celebrate the 100th anniversary of the women's right to vote. sunday night, elaine weiss on her book about the ratification of the 19th amendment in 1920, granting the women the right to vote. >> it has to be a two thirds majority, and it passes by a margin very small, and passes the senate with only a two vote margin. itre are senators sitting on , after the house passes it actually in 1918, and it takes until june of 1919 before passes both houses. then the senate knew they were sending it out for ratification moste off year which legislatures would not be in assessing for that was to make

it more difficult. the suffragists had to convince 30 governors to call their just leaders back into special session. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span q&a. the u.s. supreme court hears oral argument, whether the president has the authority to exclude undocumented individuals living in the u.s.. listen to the oral argument live at 10 :00 a.m. monday on c-span. the middle east institute examines efforts in iraq and syria, watch live monday at 10:30 eastern.

>> this is kathleen from minnesota. good morning. what is the state of small business in your small community? everything is drive-thru, but you cannot go in and sit down and eat. it's at disney had 30 two thousand jobs, so everything brick-and-mortar, you have to wear masks if you're going into the store. we are barely hanging on. the united states department