want to take care of our country could we want to be patriotic and do what it takes to keep this thing rolling, not democrat, not republican, they and took butt to work care of business. if you are over 60 five, sit at home. if you have a pre-existing condition, stay-at-home. if you are healthy, strap on your boots and support the country and keep this world safe. host: thank you. we will do this a little bit later as well. we will take more of your calls and how things are going in your community. we will take a short break. it is 8:00 here in the east. coming up, the push to legalize marijuana got a major boost this past election could we will talk about where that issue is going at the state level and potentially at the federal level with john hudak.

later, more about the state of small business, a guest, amanda ballantyne from the main street alliance. you are watching " washington journal." we will be right back. ♪ >> top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. president former barack obama on his life and political career in his newly released memoir. sunday open markets institute director and her book, seven

ways for corporations rule your life and how to take back control, interviewed by a bloomberg news reporter. and a former appellate judge and book,ofessor and his examining the constitution through the eyes of judges and legal scholars and historians. weekend ontv this c-span2. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is john hudak, author of this book "marijuana, a short history." talking here about marijuana legalization here. good morning.

election day featured some more news, several states there active in the area of legalizing recreational marijuana. give us a sketch of what happened. guest: four states had adult use cannabis measures and one had a medical legalization measure on the ballot. all five of those measures past. what is remarkable about that is that the states were very different from one another. they were from all corners of the country, montana, arizona, south dakota, states that are andral, conservative, despite the divisiveness in politics, these states came together and voted in many cases overwhelmingly to reform their laws and try something other than prohibition. host: we know that marijuana was

11 statesadults in and in washington, d.c. for recreational use guest: and vermont continued their march, passing through the legislature a bill that would allow a commercial market to go into play, adding host: tell us why this is happening. to what do you attribute the rise of each state to this type of legislation? guest: passing cannabis lead to lead -- legalization ballots to get their legislature is a

response by the public to what has been decades long failure in public policy when it comes to the war on drugs. people recognize our drug laws are problematic. they are putting a lot of people in jail. cannabis in particular leads to hundreds of thousands of arrest every year. -- arrests every year. disproportionately, those arrests are people of color. people look out at that and say maybe they have experimented with cannabis before, regular users, or have never touched it. what they are seeing is the failure to the war on drugs is leading to a crisis in this country, and they want to step away from prohibition and try something different. when they look at neighboring states who have legalized cannabis, they see the sky has not fallen. while there might be problems, the states are reacting to the problems. then those policies, legalization policies, or more preferable -- i'm sorry, a super majority of americans do not favor prohibition. host: we will do three lines this morning, if you support legislation to legalize marijuana, call this number, (202) 748-8000. if you oppose the legislation, call (202) 748-8001. if you are just not sure, (202) 748-8002. we should point out that medical

marijuana is already legal in 34 states. how long has medical marijuana been allowed in this country? ijuana been allowed in this country? guest: states started reforming their medical laws in 1996 when california passed an initiative california's medical initiative earned more votes than bill clinton did on the same ballot for reelection. that really began this now process of states recognizing the nation's law, the federal law is out of date and there might be something possible at the state level that can bring relief to patients suffering from serious and debilitating illnesses. california was the first, but you mentioned, it certainly was not the last. medical cannabis now has the support of over 90% of americans across the country, and we see that when states like mississippi, which passed it on election day with overwhelming

support, 60% voted to legalize medical marijuana. host: when it comes back to recreational marijuana use, the answers might seem obvious. what are the pros and cons on each side of the arguments on whether states should legalize? guest: as i noted earlier, the dip -- the disproportionate effects of drugs are felt by communities of color. hundreds of thousands of into a jewels are arrested every year for violating cannabis laws. most americans recognize that is a poor waste of resources. there are much bigger fish to fry, other crimes law enforcement should be focusing on, so because of that, they recognize some that is possible. in addition, we know cannabis is the most widely used illegal substance in the united states. what happens when that is sold on the black market is there is no regulation, no consumer protection, have no idea

necessarily how that plant is produced, unless you are growing yourself. you have no idea what adulterer in sarin that. a legal, regulated system helps deal with those issues and protect the product and consumer. in addition to that, while cannabis sales on the illicit market in some of the states are booming in some cases, the state is not able to extract cash revenue from that and use that for other purposes. one of the reasons legalization is happening is not just to secure the system, but also to get revenue out of that system, recognizing those sales are happening whether it is legal or not. being able to use the power of taxation to deal with some of the effects that come from cannabis use is important. on the negative side, the anti-reform side, most of the individuals focus on issues of public health and safety.

addiction, dependence, driving under the influence, etc. it is important to realize those issues also existed under prohibition. the question is, how effective is our government in combating those issues. there are different models. it legalization is one of them, but that is really the focus on the campaign. host: so because for our guests. michelle is calling from new york, good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. host: i see you are calling on the line for folks who are not sure about legalization. tell us why. caller: ok. i'm a 70-year-old female and have been using, up to this point, recreational marijuana. at this point, myself and many of my peers, seem to be on this cvd trend, which yes it does help with bone pain and things like that, but i think the

,ombination of the thc and cbd used properly, is an excellent resource for people with chronic pain, certainly much better option than an opioid. also, you mentioned, john, about the tax revenues. i live in new york state and travel out-of-state to buy legal recreational marijuana, and i is by farurity of it -- it is a much better product. it is regulated. ok, the taxes you will pay more money from a premium -- pot whether you buy it that way or illegally.

i'm just not sure. i'm a you -- i am a user and enjoy it, and i'm still not sure. and what steps really have to be taken to legalize it and keep it safe. host: michelle, thank you. john hudak, what would you say to michelle? caller: two points. your point on the combination of cbd and thc, there's a lot of research to understand what people call the entourage of fact, how different chemical compounds within the cap vocal -- the cannabis plants, how they interact with each other to create certain outcomes, whether that outcome is the traditional high, whether the outcome is some sort of medical relief, whether it is for pain or other purposes. there's a lot of research that is trying to understand how those interactions produce outcomes, something the medical community has not devoted enough attention to.

i think you are right, michelle, there are a lot of users that speak from their own experience to say certain combinations of can have a noise pork in different ways for them. some are effective and some are less effective, but i think it is inspiring medical research is taking up this mantle and trying to understand that. your point on tax revenue, i think it is important to note that while states extract tax revenue as you mentioned on traveling out of state or purchasing in another state, which is keeping that tax revenue in the state he purchased, cannabis is not going to be -- you purchased, cannabis is not going to be a grand solution for a state budget well. it will produce significant tax revenue that was not there previously, but one thing important to caution is politicians and other advocates promising that this will be a cure all for problems that are now being increased. mixedms increased in the of a pandemic and recession.

it cannabis will just not do that. tax revenue at shelf -- itself should not be a focus but shirt and lean should be part of the convent -- but certainly should be part of the conversation. host: james, you are on with john. caller: thank you. a previous speaker of the house is a ceo on the board of legalize marijuana. marijuana is used in the black neighborhood to soup less -- to suppress. once you get a felony, i got caught 25 years ago with enough marijuana to put in your fingernails and got put in jail for it. you sell it today, they bring it up. the democrats, they need an executive order immediately to extend that and we need expungement. the white people are using this as a big business, going on wall

street, but the black people are still suffering for it. a majority of the black felonyion, it is still a to get caught with over an ounce of marijuana, and it goes on your record and you cannot get housing, certain business license, cannot vote. but this methamphetamine, they lack these people up, treat them , not on their record. it is racism. the democrats need to take this recordsnge people's with possession of marijuana. host: james, thank you for calling. mr. hudak, expunging is an effort on capitol hill with legislation that the house will take up. do you want to respond to the caller, first? caller: james, on fort -- guest: james, unfortunately, an uncommons not

one. after arrests, we have seen prison sentences in many cases that are disproportionately higher than those by white americans. it is unfortunate. i hear the passion in your voice, and i can't begin to understand what you have gone through and what your family has gone through, but it is an important story of the american experience that i think needs to thatld around drug policy, drug arrest is just a one and the problems it will cause. it will limit people economically, socially, harm families, harm parents and children, harm others in the community. i think it's an important moment to start thinking about not just a public health and safety effects of legalization but the public health and public safety effects of prohibition and how many people's lives have been

affected in the way he describes or worse -- described or worse by our nations cannabis laws. there is movement on capitol hill right now to address one of the other points that james noted, expungement. next week, the house will vote on a comprehensive cannabis legalization bill. it will be the most copperheads of bill voted on by a chamber of commerce in history with guard to cannabis reform. -- of the positions provisions would involve expungement. that would be at the federal level for low-level canvas crimes. very few low-level cannabis crimes are charged at the federal level. the vast majority are at the state level and the federal legislation cannot expunge state-level crimes. but there is any effort in the state to have expungement around low-level cannabis crimes happen. in some cases, that requires individuals to petition the

court or a district attorney to do this. in other places like illinois, that expungement is automatic, which reduces the cost to the individual who either has that on the record or was incarcerated for it. they don't then need to shell out money or find an attorney to make this happen, that is more efficient than expungement and is an important distinction in the conversation. host: so in the u.s. house, watch for more acts coming up this week, more standing for the marijuana opportunity reinvestment and expungement act, sponsored by vice president elect kamala harris, jerrold nadler. it removes marijuana from scheduled substances under the controlled substances act. it eliminates, no penalties for people who manufacture, distribute, or possess marijuana. it is tabulates a process to expunge convictions and conduct sentencing review hearings related to the federal cannabis offenses and imposes a 5% tax on

cannabis products. any chance of that legislation passing? guest: i think there's a good chance it passes the house democrats in congress. a couple republicans signaled support for this. it's unlikely the bill would go to the floor without having the votes. particularly, the speaker won't put up bills that will ultimately fail. i think passage in the house is going to be a first step in a very short road. the senate is not going to take this up. mitch mcconnell signaled legislation. even if you were to put it to the floor and senate, it is hard to see it getting 50 votes, are to see it getting 60 votes necessary to be a filibuster. i think that is true in the current senate and probably true in the next one as well gaveling in in january, but it is an important step in the right direction, toward this nation recognizing federal level solutions are necessary to deal

with cannabis laws and this step-by-step state-level approach has some of that, but certainly it falls short of resolving the policy problems that exist in this country. host: where is your sense of where the president-elect is on this issue? guest: the president-elect is certainly -- has certainly signaled support for some level of reform when it comes to our nations drug laws. it is certainly not the same level for support for reform like vice president-elect harris had or others running in the democratic primary this year. when i think is important for the new administration to recognize, the president-elect signaled this in some of the debates he had this year, that has faileddrugs policy. he has recognized and apologized for some of the laws he either authored or voted for in the senate with regard to criminal justice and specifically drug policy. it's important for the administration to recognize

cannabis policy is not just about cannabis, it is about criminal justice, policing, social and racial equity, economic opportunity and education. it cannabis businesses across the country or small businesses are employing a lot of people. in this producing a lot of economic activity. we need to stop thinking about the nations drug laws as simply about substance but more holistically about the broader impact those laws that prohibition has had on this country and how changes to public policy can really improve the elements and parts of our society that have been harmed by 80 to 100 years of the drug war. host: steve is in south carolina on the line for those not sure about marijuana legalization. steve, tell us why. caller: thank you for taking my call. there's a couple different things i like to talk about. one would be from a safety

aspect, when dealing with heavy manufacturing, construction, and such like that. if it is a legalized product, and your employees come in the influence, it would be a big concern. i was a many of -- in manufacturing for almost 40 years, and the other aspect i would like to think about, would wonder about, is i would admit many, many years ago, maybe back in college, i tried the marijuana at that time. the marijuana they bring out now is, i understand, to be more itent, and one of the things always concerned about, from my aspect, is how this affects peoples'-- how do i put it, their drive or ambition to be a good citizen. i know that sounds like a

strange comment, but yeah, those would be the two areas -- i'm very concerned about the safety, again. even from a standpoint of driving an automobile under the influence. host: thank you, steve, for calling. guest: thank you for that question. those are two concerns often times discussed in a cannabis legalization debate. on the first point of companies that perhaps do not want their employees to come in under the influence because it creates a serious health or safety issues, like operating heavy machinery, school bus drivers, doctors, police officers, emts. what states have done has put in place protections for businesses like that to allow them to have a drug-free workplace, whether that substance is legal or illegal. it's important to think about it in the same way you think about alcohol. if you have worked in a company or operated in a company of

heavy machinery, same way if you have an employee showed drunk to work and can be terminated, the same would apply for someone who would show up under the influence of cannabis, whether that substance is legal or illegal. those protections don't go away simply because the state has legalized him -- legalized cannabis. those protections have been reiterated in many places by courts and other forms of public policy. on your second point on potency, it is true cannabis sold and dispensaries tends to be more potent than you would find at the street level and certainly more potent than 30 to 40 years ago. i think it is important for consumer protection and consumer purchasing those cannabis, to understand that. it is clearly labeled on legal cannabis products the potency of the product. you can had conversations with the individuals on -- at the dispensary to figure out how much you might need to take, how , and the rule tends to be

going slowly. if you are smoking cannabis, take one or two hits to see how it affects you before you go further. it is important to remember, particularly with smoked or vap ed cannabis, the body has a self-regulation process. if you have higher potent cannabis, you're not going to need as much as low potent cannabis. while it is more potent, there are ways to use it in a responsible manner. host: kathy is calling from texas who opposes legalization of marijuana. hi, kathy. caller: hello. was ad like to say that i dui speaker for 20 years, and i don't think legalizing cannabis would help the problem at all. most of the people around odessa

, eight out of 10, have been and get every week pulled over. now, you add cannabis to that, i think it will ruin our society. i think they need to care more about other people than big businesses. host: kathy, think you for calling. john hudak, what can you tell us about health risks of marijuana, when you compare to alcohol or other kinds of substances? what should people know? guest: it is important to remember a few things about cannabis. first, cannabis can be addicting. we know it is a real issue, about one in 11 american who use cannabis regularly will develop signs of cannabis use disorder. that is something that needs to be treated. there are treatment programs in the united states. it is not something to shy away

from, and to recognize states that legalized cannabis, it is important to put funding into that but also states that have not should also do that, too. to kathy's point, it is important to remember that legalizing cannabis does not introduce it into communities. cannabis is already in communities. people making poor choices on cannabis are already doing that. it's important to recognize the types of protections kathy talked about against drunk driving, etc., you should be implementing that as a state or locality, those policies against that, and working hard to deal with that, regardless of whether cannabis is legal or not. i think sometimes that conversation leads to the idea that if we legalize, suddenly cannabis pops up. no, legal cannabis pops up but you legal has been there -- but illegal has been there all along

and most widely used substance. host: you said places have had problems once they got started. give us a snapshot of how states like that have dealt with problems that come up. guest: colorado and washington where the first states to legalize cannabis. their commercial markets got up and running in 2014 area what we saw from the states early on were increases in driving under the influence of cannabis in traffic fatalities, and it was a concern in those states of of what was going on. we found, after the first year or two years, that that number started to come down. it is important to understand what caused that recession in drugged driving or cannabis involved traffic fatalities. part of it could be people began to respond to consumer information and government

programs around safer driving. people began to adjust to the new reality in the state and understand the products. it is their responsibility as legal cannabis users with it. what is important you remember is those states cannot back away from those types of information and add and pains area that needs to be an ongoing process to try to protect both the cannabis user but also the other individuals with you that cannibals -- cannabis user will interact with. host: i want to read you something, wrote in the current.com. no state presents a better example of legalization in california. it's marijuana industry is barely three years old and facing extinction due to its failure to compete with the illicit market. governor newsom is sending in the national guard to combat illegal operations. law enforcement found foreign cartel running a trafficking organization out of suburban

housing developments and utilizing indentured servants as workers. if this crime isn't enough to convince lawmakers that marijuana commercialization is not over, perhaps the potential loss of life will. what would you say to that? guest: i tend not to try to craft public policy based on anecdote or hyperbole. what i will say is that california certainly has challenges. many states that legalize challenges -- legalize cannabis have challenges. the state needs to be a fox -- effective and responsive when dealing with those challenges. california had a slow go with issues around licensing and the black market. that is all true, but as time goes on, california is improving the manner in which it is legalized in the manner in which countering public policy is natural.

throw the baby out with the bathwater and say this prohibition is a better alternative to trying to get it right. it does not meet muster. it does not reflect the values and beliefs and preferences of voters in california and across the country. california did not get it perfect on the first try. as well as other states did. the effort should not be to revert back to a drug war that imprisons hundreds of thousands of people of color every year. the reversion -- the step forward should be towards better public policy. more informed, more responsive public policy. host: blake from mississippi supporting legalization. caller: good morning. john, i want to explain to you the reason slavery lasted so long. the people that benefited from -- yousuffering from it expect them to change it?

they are not having their careers we went. they are not having their lives destroyed. they will not be the ones to make it necessary. this is killing the black community. -- we see them as shining examples but they were drug dealers. they were pushing alcohol. alcohol is 1000 times worse. you have these people in the south and all over this nation who know they can use that to discredit and deprive black people of the freedom of their livelihood, and they will use that. descendents of these people racists are still alive. don't be surprised if it continues on. that is why slavery lasted for hundreds of years. -- everybody is out

to destroy and hurt black and brown people. argument tomake an keep something like this that is destroying people's lives? how can you keep alcohol legal? host: we do get your point. fromnt to get a response john hudak. guest: your concerns are important ones and the ones having in increasing voice in the conversation about cannabis legalization, race and the drug law. there are two parts that are important. first is how drug enforcement happened. black americans are about 3.8 times more likely than white americans to be arrested for a cannabis crime even though black americans and white americans use cannabis at about the same right. the drug war -- the same right. -- rate. it has held down communities.

drug laws were designed specifically to promote racism and institutionalize it in law enforcement. it is perpetrated everyday on the streets across america. it is true in states where it is legalized and states where it is illegal. in states where it is legalized the arrests have come down but the disparity has not changed. it shows the institutionalization of racism in our nation's drug enforcement, both at the federal and state level. the second part to that is that as we have seen legalization play out we know legalization, the corporate side, is not empowering black and brown americans. it is not helping the communities harmed most by the war on drugs, by cannabis prohibition. a lot of white, wealthy men benefiting from legalization. there are states and localities

now taking steps to try to deal with unfortunate outcome, to get greater equity and quality in the cannabis industry for black americans, latinos, women, new entrepreneurs, veterans, etc. host: let's take a call from steven and los angeles, they support of legalization. caller: good morning. generaleel like in having drugs be a system where it is not being federally mandated and having them go outside other countries or the cartels to get drugs is not a good idea. andwouldn't you want that deal with it ourselves as opposed to going to places they might not be as safe or people are not always getting a great drug? drugs in general probably should be federally mandated. that is all i have. host: john hudak? oregonon election day,

took a step in the direction towards the point you are making in decriminalizing, not legalizing, but reducing penalties for the possession of small amounts of other drugs beyond cannabis, which is already legal in oregon to the equivalent of a speeding ticket or traffic ticket. part of that conversation is around the idea we need to stop criminalizing drug use and start treating addiction as a public health crisis that it is and start treating casual use not as something that is going to ruin the rest of your life and put you in jail. theink your concern about flow of illicit drugs from other countries and cartels is an important one. it is true for cannabis, cocaine, heroin and other opiates. they are coming in from other countries, often times untested

and impure. -- its what we are seeing is not necessarily the drug itself. it is not understanding what is in the drug and not having proper education about the use of that drug. some states are working in a direction towards greater drug reform. i think we need to recognize the crisis that exists. foreign actors are shipping large amounts of unregulated substances into the united states and the victims are unwitting americans. host: are there states that have put forth recreational marijuana legalization on the ballot and has failed? guest: not this year. all the ballot initiatives this year passed. arizona couple years ago voted on legalization and it felt

short by just about one or two points. they came back this year and voted overwhelmingly by a 60-40 margin to do it, to legalize. ballot initiatives fail sometimes but the vast majority, particularly around medical cannabis and adult use cannabis are passing in increasingly so. host: what other states are you watching? guest: one interesting aspect is we are running out of states with ballot initiatives. not every state has a process in place. couple of states like nebraska saw the bell initiatives get kicked off the ballot before election day. i think states like that, nebraska, missouri, you will see a resurgence moving forward towards this. towards reform. what we are starting to see increasingly is states follow the lead of illinois and vermont, to use the legislative process to do this.

that begins now in new jersey. new jersey past their ballot on election day. it requires, commands the new jersey legislature to pass a set of laws that sets up the system. new jersey is in the midst of doing that. it's neighbors are considering legalization. new york, pennsylvania, connecticut, rhode island. other states are going to go the legislative route. while their efforts have tended to fail so far, over time we will seek more states reform lost by legislation and less so by ballot initiative. host: you mentioned the medical community might not know enough about the impact of widespread marijuana use. how much money is being spent on research? where is the money coming from? is more needed? guest: definitely more is needed. funding is coming from private sources, from government sources. we have always sent research on cannabis in this country.

most of the research on cannabis was focused on the harm, the problem. developingon the brain, pregnant women, women who were nursing, the effect of long-term use and heavy use. those are important issues to address. efficacy the medical benefits of cannabis. over 200 million americans live in states with legal medical cannabis. understanding exactly how cannabis can be used in the treatment of disorders and diseases, what types of interactions it might have with other substances, those are important medical efforts, medical research efforts. we are seeing more and more of it. we will see more of it if the government would take common sense steps towards improving and easing the restrictions that exist on cannabis research, including moving it from schedule one, the highest level of control. that would allow researchers who

want to work with the drug to faceless bureaucratic red tape and lower the cost of conducting the research. there is an effort currently before the justice department to expand the number of federally regulated growth facilities to produce cannabis for research. currently there is only one at the university of mississippi that the trump justice department expanded the number of grow operations. cat are currently more than three dozen before the justice department that have not gotten any decision made on it. a future administration could easily begin to expand the growth of research which will only improve the ability of researchers to conduct research on the plant. host: luis in oregon, a supporter of legalization. caller: hi there. i have been using marijuana for 53 years. i was a heavily abused child.

of course i was kind of a nervous wreck. marijuana has done nothing but help me with my nerves, being calm, including when i'm driving. studies have been coming up that studied marijuana drivers. we drive slower and more carefully. is the exact opposite of drunk drivers. i have lost many friends to alcohol, not a single one to pot. this business about accidents or marijuana, they are not from marijuana use. people are using marijuana when they are drinking and then they go they had an accident from the marijuana. no, it is from the alcohol. it's the exact opposite. thank you. i sure hope we can get folks out of jail. louise.ank you, guest: thank you for getting up early with us this morning. it's important to caution that drivers using cannabis are

driving less safe than drivers who are not using cannabis. studies demonstrate that. the comparison with alcohol is an important one. drivers driving drunk are certainly very unsafe. we should not conflate that with the idea that a cannabis-impaired driver is a safe driver. i would caution against driving of the influence of any substance and cannabis is included in the conversation. host: harry from preston, maryland. you are not sure about this issue. caller: i wanted to make a comment about a couple of things first before i get onto that. hudak mentioned older white people or men betty finney from the grow up or -- or men benefiting from the grow operation. person that used

marijuana. they ended up developing a panic disorder. to functiont able basically. they needed a lot of mental help to get back on track. i think there is probably going to be some mental health issues caused by the use of it. from case, i suffer peripheral neuropathy real bad. take lyrica. -- adema. dema. it would be nice if there was research done to extract the active ingredients of it to benefit. a person like myself and not be able to smoke it either. host: final thought from john hudak on the legalization efforts around the country on

marijuana. tell us what you see in the future. guest: it is obvious that america is ready to be done with cannabis prohibition. it is ready to move forward with some other type of reform. it will be justice-oriented and inclusive and responsive to the harms the drug war has caused. particularly for communities of color, but really for all americans. we have an opportunity moving forward in the final days of the trump administration and into the biden administration to think differently about cannabis reform and cannabis in general, can think about the ways in which our nation's laws can improve the lot for americans who have been hurt for so long. it's important to safeguard against the challenges cannabis can bring but it's important to think differently about our nation's drug laws. just because they have been around for 100 years does not make them right. if you read my book, you will

see the impetus of our nation's drug laws were rooted in racism. we are in a moment where we are thinking different the issues of race. part of that conversation around race has to include cannabis and drug enforcement in general. the biden administration has a real opportunity to do something about this. cannabis specifically and drug policy generally must be part of a comprehensive conversation about criminal justice in the united states. host: john hudak, senior fellow of studiesof -- area at the brookings institute. thank you for your time this morning and all the insight into this issue. guest: thank you. host: we have about an hour and a quarter left. it is small business saturday in the united states. we will spend the rest of the program on that topic. we will have a guest from the main street alliance coming up in half an hour. once we take a short break we will return to your calls on

small business issues. what are the conditions for small business in your area? we look forward to talking to you. ♪ >> >> the u.s. supreme court hears oral argument in trump v new york. the car while here whether president trump has the authority to exclude undocumented individuals from the census. listen to the oral arguments live on c-span or on the c-span radio app. >>