will return to your calls on small business issues. what are the conditions for small business in your area? we look forward to talking to you. ♪ >> >> the u.s. supreme court hears oral argument in trump v new york. the car while here whether president trump has the authority to exclude undocumented individuals from the census. listen to the oral arguments live on c-span or on the c-span radio app. tuesday treasury secretary

steven mnuchin and federal reserve chair jerome powell testify before the -- committee. the will talk about downturn triggered by the coronavirus pandemic. watch on-demand on c-span.org or listen live wherever you are on the c-span radio app. with coronavirus cases increasing across the country, use our website, c-span.org/coronavirus to track this bread with interactive maps and watch updates on demand any spread withk the interactive maps and watch updates on demand any time. >> washington journal continues. us about the state of small business in your area.

if you work at a small business or own one, shop at one, this is a good time to call in. we will have a guest, amanda ballantyne, coming on it 9:15 tell us about small business in the country. cbs news says small business saturday could make or break local stores across the u.s. they published a survey. two out of three people are very or somewhat likely to shop at a small business. seven in 10 say it's more important to support a small business and to get the best deal. the stakes are higher than ever as owners of small businesses make last-ditch efforts to reduce sales lost to the pandemic. every day of the year is important for small business, but small business saturday, which was launched by american express a decade ago, is poignant this holiday season with record numbers of small businesses suffering financially . consider more than 100,000 small

businesses have already shuddered during the pandemic with more on the way. total small business revenue plunged 32% as of november 16. that is from january levels. one in five business owners will have to shut down if economic conditions don't improve within six months, according to a survey from the nfib. john is on the line to talk about small business in dearborn heights. good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i wanted to make a quick comment. i live in the michigan area. there are shutdowns here. one thing most disturbing to me that was not commented on in legacy media with governor newsom and his controversy about not socially distancing was everyone brushed it off. he apologize, etc. what that tells me is he does not believe any of this is real. if this was really serious and

the hospitals were being overrun and this was scary, he would not risk doing that, among other people higher up in power. i think that is kind of perplexing no one is talking about that. host: how much of your shopping do you do as small businesses? caller: probably both. it is just really sad here in michigan. people spend their whole lives building a sports bar or some kind of small business, what have you. a lot of them have just gone under. it is really what the american story is about. coming from wherever you come from and starting a business for your family or your neighborhood. i think it is tragic but thank you for c-span. host: are you still there? caller: yes. does washington have in all of this, do you think? caller: as far as the senate and

the house? host: do they have a role in propping up small businesses right now? caller: the relationship between government, the federal government and business for a myriad of reasons should probably be small. i think during the recession, the 2009 recession, the government bailed out too many businesses. if you are a bad business and you don't save your money or operate responsibly, you should probably go out of business. host: thanks a lot. silver spring, maryland. joel, what would you like to say? caller: i would like to speak up oursupport of the save -- act. venues are small businesses. this -- they are really running

on fumes, except to virginia here the restrictions are a little looser. as someone who is a great supporter of a live, local music scene in the d.c. area, i think thes critical for entertainment venues to be saved. not everything -- it is not necessarily required or essential but it is something that is part of the culture. host: do you believe in shutdowns? are they helpful? would you advocate more shutdowns? basically i would say point i think we could probably pull back on

shutdowns because i think right now there are restrictions in the d.c. area that are so know, ie that, you don't think it is necessary in this area. host: thank you for calling this morning. bill from south florida. go ahead. caller: hi. i want to make a couple of comments. closure of many of these businesses, there is absolutely not much evidence the has really impacted spread. my main point is this. even if these restaurants are open, that doesn't mean people are going in.

i and my son went into a restaurant. this was one thing that was open. they were seating for 200. nd two others ad people in the restaurant and this is a very successful restaurant. in other words, people are intelligent. people listen to the news. they know what is going on. people, theof these closing of all these establishments, in my view it has done more harm than just informing the public of what the situation is. that is my comment. host: thanks for calling this morning. the folks at goldman sachs at their website have the results of a survey as well.

they call small businesses sinking like boats. they are struggling to stay afloat while awaiting federal aid. 96% say it's important for republicans and democrats to turn a page on artisan politics and pass bipartisan legislation and provide relief for american small businesses. some details of the study look like this. owners continue to suffer. offhave been forced to lay employees or cut employee compensation. 20% say the legislative uncertainty has caused them to consider closing to businesses. 52% have forgone paying themselves. 33% have dipped into personal savings to stay operational. some details from a recent survey at goldman sachs. evan from fairfield, indiana. good morning. tell us about small business in fairfield. caller: i'm really in schererville. host: happy to have you either

way. tell us what is going on. caller: businesses, small businesses, grocery stores and things like that, other than the big package stores and big-box stores are having a hard time. my son is in a small business. he is back in a family business. betrays used cars between dealers -- he trades used cars between dealers. my great-grandfather was a horse trader after he got out of the civil war army. know he was in the trucking business until the great recession. he started when he came out of the coast guard when he was 22 years old. i and 83. you can guess how old he is now -- i am 83.

small businesses are like the trucking companies. they are essential to the area. if you have got the income tax and can't make a living. he was put out of business by the recession in 2008. thank you for calling. kevin mccarthy, minority leader in the house, tweets this morning about small business saturday. thousands of small businesses are in danger of closing their doors forever. pelosi won't lift a finger to help. democrats have blocked eight small business workers 40 times. do it democrats refuse to do. support a small business today. we heard from nancy pelosi earlier in the show from a briefing this week about the status of release talks. you can watch that full briefing

at our website, c-span.org. we will hear from the speaker now as well as far as what she said about the ongoing negotiations. [video] >> and another misguided active irresponsibility, secretary mnuchin said he would end many critical emergency lending initiatives at the end of the year. why would they do that? drawing a rare rebuke from the senate. that really speaks out. the fed said it would prefer the full suite of emergency in theies established coronavirus pandemic to continue to serve their important roles for are still strained and vulnerable economy. the fed. would prefer the full suite established continue to serve

the important role as a backdrop for our strange and vulnerable economy. -- strained and vulnerable economy. highly unusual for the fed to comment on that manner on something said by the secretary of the treasury. again, why? why? because they want to impede the ability of the next administration to have everything available to them. host: part of the ongoing dialogue any potential new stimulus package. in recent weeks and months there has not been a major bill. there is potential for that when they come back into the lame-duck or next year with the new congress. we shall see. steve from mount vernon, new york. good morning. friend who owns a restaurant. he had to close up.

you can't have it both ways. you have pelosi saying the stingless package doesn't cover enough. what good is it? it's like having a 200-seat restaurant and only having three or four people in there. it's not conducive. mcconnell and the republicans, mnuchin, they are blocking all these things that can help the people in the way it needs to be done. that is my statement. host: thank you for calling. madeline from navasota, texas. caller: this is kathleen again. hello. host: go ahead please. caller: the small business in my town, this little navasota town, they shut down. magnolia shut down. nou can't even get to brya because they won't allow people to go from one county to the other because of coronavirus. the hospitals are cutting down.

downthing is going to hell here in texas. i am sorry. i like the republicans. but the democrats, i wish they would get it together. richall that money to the and say sorry, there is nothing for the poor. go to the food pantry and get you something for your kids. host: with things closing down where are you doing your shopping? caller: me and sisters on social security, they gave me $48 a month in food stamps. how can you live on $40 a month in food stamps? host: thank you for calling. kevin from montana, small business owner. what kind of business are you went? -- in? caller: we run a little motel. it is slow. we had a couple of months this summer that were pretty good.

we are right by glacier park. i would like to comment on the last caller in the first segment. he had it spot on. this shopping season here, people really need to look at the labels. try to buy american. buyhey can't buy american, it anywhere but from china. we need to hold the people accountable. thank you. host: thanks for calling. in theosen has a piece retail area of the new york times. nine ways to support small businesses. in the early weeks of the pandemic consumers buoyed small businesses with gift card purchases and online fundraising campaigns. many independent businesses continue to struggle.

owners are coming up with strategies to keep businesses afloat which benefit consumers, providers, and neighborhoods. some multiplier effects. a group helps small businesses market. an owner might hire a local accountant. success of one business can steamroll through the economy. they list nine ways to support small businesses. it includes offering your skills as an accountant, lawyer, banker, digital marketing specialist. small businesses may appreciate the help. they suggest being social. social media presence. proprietors are under enormous so support them wherever you can. loyalty counts.

they want you to come back when it is time to come back to those places. that is from the new york times. laura, spokane, washington. caller: good morning. calling is iam don't see this as community spirit letting small business down. it, a lot of, what you call this area over a virus that has -- hysteria over a virus with a .8% mortality rate. i don't understand why the politicians make these ridiculous rules and shut them down, putting tons of regulations on them, and say now pay your taxes. i just don't get it. we need to confront it. we don't need to run away from it. spokaneat do you see in in terms of small businesses?

do you shop a small businesses? caller: yes. host: what do you see these days? caller: i see a lot of no lights on. desperatet of very small businesses that are just getting -- they just don't deserve it. the more and more the regulations come down and all this other stuff, when we can deal with it, confront it, deal with it. the government just steps right in the way and says stay home, put your mask on, distance. we have done all that. it has not done any good. it is a .8% mortality rate. not 10% or anything like that. suggestion would be that pelosi said herself down and quit playing politics with our lives, the lives of these people. that is my comment.

thank you so much. host: we have christine from indiana. caller: yes. i was calling to find out. i know this coincides with the but forrson talking small businesses that are like apartments, small apartment complexes, not the big business ones, are the states that are allowing legalizing marijuana laws for the businesses that don't want marijuana? are they going to make it illegal for people to not be able to -- are they going to allow it to be illegal for those that don't want marijuana smoked

around their buildings because it gives everybody high within the building? host: what you think will happen? caller: either they cannot legalize smoking marijuana or they have to segregate buildings, have separate buildings or people that do and people that don't because it seeps through the walls. host: got the point. a couple of colors inching mitch mcconnell from kentucky -- mentioning mitch mcconnell from kentucky. [video] publicly,n what i see because it had no private discussions about this, it looks to me like the speaker and the democratic leader of the senate and former vice president biden $2.5ave the view that trillion or nothing. i share the view of my colleagues expressed here. a more narrowly targeted

proposal such as we laid out in september and october in the senate deals with the actual problem. as some of you may have not noticed, revenues at the state level are basically up almost everywhere. they continue to insist apparently almost on a trillion dollars that has nothing to do with solving this problem. to sum it up, i'm open to a targeted bill roughly of the amount we recommended. half a trillion dollars which is nothing. narrowly targeted at schools, and health care providers, at ppp, and of course liability reform to keep america from being engaged in an epidemic of lawsuits on the heels of the pandemic.

very open to that. yet, aseen no evidence several of my colleagues have suggested, that they are open to it. host: mitch mcconnell from earlier this week. president trump lending his voice. the restaurant business is being absolutely decimated. congress should step up and help. timing is of the essence. a few more of your calls on the status small business around america on this small business saturday. larry from albany, georgia. caller: good morning. business.mall lodge i was trying to get that stimulus package in july. a $10,000 fund. moneyay they gave out the but they arrested a lot of people. i want to say this to the american people right now who don't understand how the congress and senate works.

the job was to allocate so much money and give it to the senate for mitch mcconnell and for.dent trump to sign congress nancy pelosi has done her job. she gave a check to them to allocate for the american people, small business owners, and people who are buying homes. but mitch mcconnell and donald trump have not signed that check to go out to you. that is what congress do. see, now, from what i can they are turning every thing against the congress which is making it seem like it is their problem, their fault. remember, congress allocated that money to the senate. mitch mcconnell's job is to send it out and he is not allowing it to go out. his talking point on helping the

american people, if you listen to his talking points, you will see mitch mcconnell has not got anything new for the american people are anyone else. host: moving on to minneapolis. small business owner. what is your name? caller: claudia. host: go ahead please. caller: i wanted to say our governor has been a dictator. the fact he is closing of the small businesses and he has no science behind it. you -- he can give you absolutely nothing that lets him go ahead and close down these places. but he is doing is making them all get onto welfare and government entitlements. that they are going to use that against us that they can force a

vaccine. host: what kind of business are you in? caller: a small shop that smells different things. right now we are still open and we don't know when he is going well.se us down as we know for a fact that there -- been nothing but absolute the restaurants are doing nothing but following the minnesota department of health. we have not been able to sit next to each other in restaurants. they followed it to a t. sitting even outdoors, which is ridiculous, because sitting outdoors does not spread anything. they all the protesters to give outdoors. there is no doubt there is no science behind what they are doing. they are just trying to absolutely demoralize people so they will be forced to use the vaccine. that will be beyond their

control because people are so tired that they want to move on. they will move on with whatever when they become so demoralized as they are doing this. our governor is a dictator from hell. -- if he is in florida, you guys need to show that on your next segment. now he is doing exactly what he is telling everyone else not to do. host: michael from saratoga, california. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. small business owners i have talked to are asking who is benefiting from this decimation of small businesses. the answer seems to be big corporations. the government is supposed to protect the american people from these corporations but they are not doing that at all. gone,mall business is only the big corporations are

left over. , working in san francisco, if you want to talk with them there is no interaction. they don't face their customers anymore. we get to talk to people in india and places like that. the arrogance of these people as they clamped down this phony martial law, what evidence of the pandemic -- imagine the virus is so bad i have to get tested to find out if i have it. it's malarkey. host: thank you for calling. businessese on small coming up. two questions can be answered by@with amazed --by amanda with the main street alliance. your calls and questions coming up in just a moment. ♪

>> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. >> coming up today, an interview on leadership with james baker, who served as secretary of state under george h w bush. eastern connecticut state university professor on the close and rumored relationship between two prominent mid-19th century politicians -- james buchanan, elected the nation's 15th president in 1856 and william rufus king who served briefly as vice president under franklin pierce. sunday at 6 p.m. eastern on

american artifacts, we explore jfk assassination records from the national archives, including iconic artifacts such as lee harvey oswald's rifle, the so-called magic bullet, and the original eight millimeter film of the assassination taken by abraham's up router. and on the presidency, a virtual tour of the ronald reagan presidential library located in simi valley, california. exploring the american story -- watch american history tv today on c-span3. washington journal continues. host: joining us now is amanda ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance talking about the pandemic's impact on small business. amanda ballantyne, what is the main street alliance? how are you funded? guest: it's a national network of small business owners around the country. we work to advocate for a real

voice for small business owners in policymaking. we have a variety of funding sources. our members, partners, allies work together to move our agenda forward. host: do businesses paid money to be part of the alliance? guest: we don't have a membership fee but many contribute and donate to our organization. host: on this small business saturday, explained the definition of a small business. how important are they to the u.s. economy? guest: small businesses, according to the department of labor, are any business under 500 employees. that's actually a huge number of businesses in this country, a vast majority of businesses. small businesses employ nearly half of the private sector workforce in the country. isusiness of 500 employees what most people would consider to be more of a midsize business.

when people think of a small business, they are thinking of local independent shops, repair shops, bookstores, restaurants. those of the businesses we advocate for. host: who started small business saturday ny? -- and why? supportyou continue to small businesses after saturday? guest: i believe it was started by american express to encourage people to shop at their local small businesses. it's a great effort. the holiday season is one of the most important revenue-generating periods for small retailers in this country. encouraging people and having public campaigns to make sure to remind people that if we really want to have these diverse, vibrant businesses, we have to get out and support them and not just order on amazon. many people participate. main street alliance is pushing

we do more than just shop small. that we actually contact congress and ask them to support small businesses by passing an additional relief package that would really provide a buoy of support for small businesses and impacted industries suffered from the impact of covid. host: looking forward to more of your calls for our guest, amanda ballantyne. the three lines we will put on. small business owners, call (202) 748-8000. that is for the owners. if you are an employee, (202) 748-8001. everyone else, (202) 748-8002. we will get those calls going as soon as they start coming in and see if there is any social media input for our guest. @, if we were sit --amanda ballantyne, if we were sitting here a year ago, we would have already been talking about small businesses struggling.

what has the pandemic done to them? guest: in certain industries, small shops, it has been devastating. it is hard to underestimate the impact small business owners have experienced since february and march of last year. it has been a real roller coaster. there have been public shutdowns of businesses, a huge decrease in consumer demand for small businesses. and we have seen nearly a quarter million small businesses close. there is a question about how many have closed permanently versus how many have closed temporarily. we do know that there is a massive decrease in revenue for small businesses between 23% and 30%. we hone in on restaurants and hospitality. that is closer to 60% decline in revenue. it's a series of shots. i would say the federal relief

and state relief programs have helped but they have long since expired or run out of the funding small businesses are needing to pay fixed costs, retrofit for safety and be able to weather the storm. host: what would be the broad outlines of a bill if washington can't come up with another large or larger piece of legislation? what else is needed? guest: the thing small businesses really need our grants. they need subsidies to support. it's of time where they have -- support when they have periods of times when they are closed for safety purposes and cover the fixed costs from the last nine months of slowed down operations. programsa great set of and the heroes act. summer industry-specific.

summer fixing the paycheck protection program which did help many businesses but was very flawed and excluded a lot of business owners. we would say take a look at the heroes act in the legislation focusing on small businesses is very strong. focus on grants for various small businesses and impacted businesses. also ensure we have legislation in place to get the virus under control. that we are extending emergency unappointed benefits to ensure consumers are still able to spend in the local economy, and really supporting state and local governments and the important programs they have for education and health and safety. those are the types of programs that can provide relief owners need to weather the next -- it will be three or four month at least and maybe longer until a vaccine is widely available. host: the first call is harold from palmdale, california. caller: good morning.

do small businesses have the right to open under protest? maybe through the month of december? to stay open with common sense and with their own discretion and just open it up themselves without listening to governors? mayors, where are these taxes going to come from after these small businesses are gone? are the governors and mayors thinking of this? host: amanda ballantyne? guest: there is a set of laws in different jurisdictions around the country that small business owners need to pay attention to and follow. there are places where businesses are find operate no matter what industry. certain industries have been closed or partially closed or have limited operations for public health and safety reasons. we certainly advise business

owners to follow the law. your question about taxes is a good one. it points to the really good role the federal government needs to play in leveling the playing field during this pandemic. large corporations like amazon and walmart and costco have made billions of dollars as small businesses have struggled. the answer is to ensure there aren't companies able to profiteer off the pandemic and we are providing resources small businesses need to remain competitive. the federal government has an important role to play in making sure that happens. , one amanda ballantyne very drills down more on the definition of a small business. lb writes that classification is ridiculous. fewer than 50 employees should be the guideline, not 500 or less. mom-and-pop businesses don't have the capacity to even apply for some of these loans and they

are the ones that really need it. zeroing in on the 500 figure. what are your thoughts on that concern? guest: that's really important point. many federal and state programs designed to help small businesses are really designed for much larger businesses. smalleds and interests of businesses of 50, 25 employees, 10 and fewer, are very different than the businesses with 500 employees. we think there should be special programs designed for micro businesses and very small businesses. error and federal policy not to design programs more specifically for small businesses that help businesses grow at different stages in their cycle and also support businesses that may always remain small. host: do states have those kind of programs you are speaking to

and the resources to run them? guest: the state and federal governments, there is a lot of cooperation and participation around small business development. much of that money runs through economic development programs. states have a role to play. in this moment states are extremely stretched for cash. they have been pushing out a lot of support for small businesses. he really is local and state support that got many businesses through. that money is drying up, which is why we need to see federal action and very soon. host: john in murdock, nebraska. go ahead please. caller: good morning. what seems to be first consistently frustrating is -- unfortunate

circumstance with people facing this virus and society today and twisting that into a mechanism to bailout states like california, new york, illinois for the repeated irresponsible fiscal behavior. there seems to be this massive increase in testing, which appears to be revealing increasing cases, which is building the case to make this display for the macon people to try to fleece us further and allow them to have the keys to the person of this nation to bailout these liberal states that have imposed circumstances upon the people that have created financial nightmares. thank you. host: amanda ballantyne? guest: it's important to look at the science when we assess the impact of the virus. you can look both at data and

public science that shows how the virus has been impacting cities and states. also look at economic data. supporting small businesses and providing additional stimulus now will help the economy recover faster. that is what we are advocating for. host: steve from st. charles, missouri. caller: good morning. sure how to'm not describe myself. i derive my income from a few rental properties i have. i have 30%pandemic of my properties not paying. i want to know how the government can make me subsidize their programs. host: anything else?

explain your question again. caller: i derive my income from a few rental properties i have. 30% of my tenants are now not paying, even though they are either working or collecting unemployment. i want to know how the government can impose whatever programs they wish to push on me. guest: are you talking about the eviction moratoriums? caller: yes. host: thank you for clarifying, steve. amanda ballantyne? important,ink it's and this is really important. a ghost of a number of issues. there is a there is a very strong public interest in keeping people housed during the pandemic. and that interest should extend through landlords who are deriving their income from small

-- from rental properties. many landlords are able to negotiate a forbearance from their mortgage companies, and i that is something that you should certainly pursue if you have not. federal relief and support should be provided either through their ppp or a grant based loan program that can help you make up your business income during this period of time. without that type of public policy, really, it is a challenge, and it is a challenge that creates a chain reaction, which is another reason why we need to see federal relief programs designed to help and support small businesses, because landlords and small landlords really are small businesses and are struggling during this time. host: we have a text from ragan lexington, kentucky. he says we try to patronize small businesses. however, they have raised their prices so high to make up for lost revenue, we cannot afford it.

more of the economic dynamic going on in the country. guest: it is true that large companies tend to have more ability to reduce prices. i think we have public policy in place in this country that sets a playing field against small businesses in a lot of ways. sometimes, it is more expensive to shop locally. but i think it is an important choice to make as a consumer, because it contributes to the overall health and well-being of our entire community. and it ensures that we have diverse local options. and it is not just the corporations that can play in the marketplace. host: our guest is amanda ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance. main street -- mainstreetallia .ce.org is the website beyond this crisis that is happening right now, how does

the country build a more resilient, equitable small business economy? guest: that is a great question. i think the incoming biden tremendousion has a opportunity not only to come in and ensure relief for small businesses but also -- howndamentally reshaping credit to access works. the caller who mentioned business size, how important it is to think about is in size when developing public policy programs, that person is onto something. if we were designing -- if we were designing significant programs right now that were targeting micro-entrepreneurs, one-person, two-person, three-person businesses come up to 10 and 25, and providing small loans that help them grow their businesses at specific periods by purchasing equipment and other things, loans that are

really tailored for businesses of that size, and working to break down the racial disparities in lending by using public programs rather than private banks, you would see, i think, a dramatic increase in entrepreneurship. that can be, also, improved by providing a set of safety net features for small businesses, including things like universal health care and publicly supported childcare. these are huge costs for there were that, if more public programs that provided these types of programs, more people could choose entrepreneurship. so i think there is a set of programs both in the access to credit and the capital space, but also in ensuring a safety net for people who want to take the risk and go out on their own -- they could really change the way that opportunity works in this country and make it more available to people who do not have pre-existing wealth in their personal networks. host: back to your calls on small business saturday.

ellen -- helen is calling. caller: good morning. i wanted to mention about what is really happening with the small restaurants. they have curbside -- people call in for their orders. they do not have to go inside. and another thing, what they do, art fining people for not having a mask. $2000 and things like that, they are really getting the people that are fighting each other and ifot wearing a mask they only do their job of keeping the mask on or carrying it with them, they do stop them, you know, before they enter a place here, however, there is a lot of things that are going on as far as -- you have to agree

with me about trump. he did start it. he said ok, we just have a small flu thing. he did not believe it, did not care to believe it. since biden came in, he wanted to start. he said let's get rid of this virus. let's stop it by wearing the went out to all of these places, all the states, to voting and send in their votes, and all of a sudden , they're sending them in, he got mad. know,just that biden, you had cars coming up, meeting with him. believed.never and you have to agree -- like i said, he never agreed that the

virus was going to be as bad. host: thank you for joining us this morning. amanda ballantyne, take us a little deeper into the world of the restaurants in the country, especially the smaller ones, the locally owned. in general, how are they doing? the last caller mentioned curbside service or delivery service. in general, how are they doing and can they survive? guest: the restaurant industry has always been an industry that functions on very thin margins. the covid pandemic has been catastrophic for many restaurants in this country. you have also seen kind -- creative entrepreneurship. small, local restaurants working to develop curbside pickup or other types of delivery options. pop-ups. shifting to home food delivery rather than just restaurant meals. there has been a lot of creative work to try and develop

different business models that function during this time. the restaurant industry employers probably 15 million people, many, many people. when you look at the restaurant industry, you have to look not just at restaurant owners but also the people who work in restaurants, who have -- the majority of restaurants have had to lay off most the entire workforce. they are operating on skeletal staff, just cooking and doing delivery. unless they are able to open. i think many restaurants were able to open over the summer it safely. that is shifting now as the weather turns cold and of the virus is spiking. i think many restaurants who got a bounce over the summer and were able to hire back staff are shifting back to sort of emergency operation mode. it is very, very tough. and i think it is important to understand most business owners in the country believe that there would be another covid

relief package in august or september, and then they were holding out until after the election. now it is starting to look like there may not be another relief package until after the start of the new year. this is a real crisis in the restaurant industry. and it is a real crisis particularly for independent restaurants who are still having to pay rent, having to pay for equipment rental, and they are still having, in many high rent cities, just tremendous costs, that these thin business models could get them through for shorter periods of time. but it is going to be a year, more than a year, before there is a widespread vaccine. a roller coaster for restaurant owners, and they are definitely not out of the woods, and they certainly need federal support. host: back to congress and the federal support, we know in number of deadlines are expiring at the end of this year, programs i've been helping

various folks. one is that family first coronavirus response act, expiring at the end of december. can you give us a sense of what that does in particular? what should an extension look like, if you think one is necessary? guest: the family first act provides paid leave time for businesses that are closing down for the employees, when they get covid. importantally, really program. it actually should be made into permanent law, permanent paid family medical leave and permanent sick time would be a huge boost to the small industry -- small business industry, providing benefits they could not otherwise provide on their own. so it definitely needs to continue through covid and should be made permanent. mountlet's hear from pleasant tennessee, small business owner. what small business do you own? caller: iselle books and work

with education program in tennessee. host: do you work with employees? caller: i have a few employees. well. is going fairly i like the way tennessee the stemwithout using money -- that is something that is kind of good and bad. commerce, tennessee does not need the stimulus money. it is running just fine. we just need to stay at home. we do not need to go back into work or we need to remotely work from home. and it works better for tennessee, because our weather .s not good to go back to work i kind of disagree with donald trump on that, going back to work.

that is when it spreads more. but if everybody can be remotely at home and working, you can get it controlled with the virus that way. and then also wearing a mask. host: thank you for calling. amanda ballantyne, any reaction? guest: it is absolutely true that getting the virus under control is a key necessity to getting the small business economy back up and running. i think for people who are able to operate from home or work from home, it is a great thing, because you reduce your risk and reduce the risk imposed to other people. there are a lot of people not able to do that and require businesses -- and businesses that require customers in their stores to make a profit they need to get by. so i disagree. i think we need more federal stimulus. i think we needed as soon as we can get it. host: do you have a sense of what percentage of businesses have online options for

customers, especially in this time of the pandemic, and are those numbers growing? guest: i do not actually have that statistic. but the numbers i know are growing. in our network, i've heard business owners who had never had online shops operating before working to get them up and going. i think there have been some new technologies made available that help businesses. we are seeing a sort of emergence of what form, tech forms, and i think some business owners are nervous that a lot of the fees from doordash and other online platforms are cutting into their profits, and they do not have as much control over the delivery system there. so there is a double-edged sword happening. pandemic wills uptakee small business of technology. it is something we need to watch and see how it develops. host: let's hear from mike in

ohio. caller: good morning. i want to address the situation about some people calling and amount of tax dollars go to the blue states that shut down but you also have a lot of tax dollars that ended up going to red states where people just ignored the science. people just have to look out for each other. we are americans. if you cannot just wear a mask or your neighbor, for your coworker. way inresident trump new advance about this pandemic, and his comment was he did not want americans to panic. what if fdr said we got bombed out earl harbor, but we are as we got bombed at pearl harbor, but we are not going to tell anyone because we do not want anyone to panic? it is up to each person to decide whether they will panic or not. this is america. you have a right to your

information. senate, there and is no reason they should be in recess right now you they should hammering something out while people are hungry and out of work. thank you for letting me comment. host: thank you for calling. let's hear from our guest. guest: i certainly agree that congress should be in session right now, figuring out a federal stimulus bill. it is of rate concern not only that small businesses are struggling as the virus numbers rge, it is also the case there are 20 million unemployed people in the country, and emergency endemic unemployment benefits will be expiring, as well as other critical programs, at the end of the year. that will have a huge impact on millions of families in the country, and the decline in consumer demand from having less money available in the economy will hit small business hard. it is unconscionable for

pandemicto sit on the when so many people are struggling. so we want to see urgent action. it needs to go beyond just shopping locally. people need to call congress, and they need to talk about how important their small businesses are in their unity, how they are the lifeblood and implement centers of the community, and they are really struggling and need support right now. that we saw this story talk specifically about women-owned businesses, the asdline speaks to the story to why women-owned businesses are struggling and how a new round of stimulus could help. subhead says female owned businesses have struggled more than male owned businesses. talk to us about women-owned businesses and what is unique -- and what unique, special circumstances they face right now. guest: women business owners

have traditionally had trouble accessing credit and capital, for the same reason that many asian smalltinx and business owners had trouble accessing the ppp, women in general had trouble as well. part of that is generally businessesen owned tend to be smaller in size, so they either did not qualify for the first round of ppp -- or there are a variety of reasons they were not able to access it. women also tend to bear a lot more spots ability for family and child rearing causes. as businesses are shutting down, schools and daycare's are also shutting down. so it has been hard for many business owners in general, particularly women business owners, to manage family responsibilities while trying to keep their struggling businesses afloat. it has been a huge challenge. it is something we need to pay attention to. i think this pandemic is impacting women who work in our economy, whether business owners

or working women, and we do not want to end up in a situation where the pandemic increases in equity, gender inequity tremendously. we do not want to end up in a position where it increases racial inequity. without programs that are specifically designed to address those issues, that is where we are headed. small business a owner and contacted main street alliance asking for help and support, what does the process look like? how can i benefit from reaching out to you folks? guest: a big part of what main street alliance does as we work with business owners to help them tell their stories in the media and to public policy makers. we are really focused on public policy issues and how about policy needs to be changed to support small business owners and support entrepreneurship in our economy. when business owners get in touch with us, we certainly connect them to agencies where they can access government support or other types of assistance.

but a big part of what we are doing with business owners is collecting their stories and training them to lobby and tell their stories in the past, in public speaking opportunities, and also with their members of congress, so they can be educating public officials about what small businesses really need. org ismainstreetalliance. the website. joining us as the executive director your of main street alliance. up next, john. caller: thank you for taking my call. isive it in upstate, and it -- the economy is really based on tourism, with the late george area. you have all the parks, the saratoga resources, which did not have people this year. it is not only the small business, it is all the people who worked in those places. all the people who work in those places, those jobs are not coming back.

and if you go into any major store and see a cashier that is at a self-service checkout handling 10 or 12 or 11 registers, those jobs are not coming back. and i think that in the state we live in, that is very political -- my point is that someone can go from diagnosis to cure with covid in three days, and then they can go in one day and be totally cured, so why is there such a rush for this cure? i think it is political smoke. even now, if you look up the toll booths, they have raised the rate of the tolls if you do not have an ez-pass. the states will continue to make money, and they put the individuals and the people against each other and then blame political parties when they fail to take responsibility -- be it democrat or republican,

red or blue state, people need to take responsibility for what they have created. host: thank you for calling. guest: there is a lot of frustration right now. there is frustration because the pandemic is just as ongoing crisis, and i think it does vary and how much it impacts people. thes important to look at science and understand the impact on our public health system when hundreds of thousands of people are coming down with covid every day. sure, a lot of people will recover and be fine, but our hospitals are overwhelmed, and the threat to people is very, very significant. it is a huge threat. i think it is true that people are sick of locking down and they are very worried about small businesses in their communities, very worried about the jobs in their communities. in some ways, the caller is right. a lot of the jobs and a lot of the small businesses, particularly in rural communities, may not come back, unless there is specific public

policy designed to help watch printer ship rebuild those local economies. it is also true that, in places where restaurants, bars, ism needs to tour shut down to protect public other safety, there could be public policy designed to help those businesses through the crisis. we have not seen that through the federal government. when you talk about states connecting tax revenue, that is not profit for someone. that is money invested into our economies and schools and roads and infrastructure. it is important that that type of investment is important and it helps small businesses function. urgently needed relief from the federal government, we will continue to see this kind of austerity, and it does not help rebuild economies or put food on the table. host: back to a survey published by goldman sachs, the impact of rising covid infection rates. 59% say their businesses --

business revenues have been negatively impacted. 86% of those who have been negatively impacted say the decline is due to changing customer behavior. 44% say the design -- the because of state regulations. 96% say now is the time to put politics aside. now.ve sam on the line you are on with amanda ballantyne of the main street alliance. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a comment. i think a lot of small businesses, they -- as you think you are making money, then you go to pay your taxes, and all of a sudden, now, you thought you were making money, and you're not making money, because you are paying taxes -- unlike donald trump, but some people do pay taxes. they have -- it is called fairtax.org.

i think this would stimulate a lot of new businesses, make things simpler. the irs has 70,000 pages. i do not think anybody knows all the irs rules. and then we pay these lobbyists a lot of money, and they run the government. and we could get rid of $10 billion of government expense if we could get rid of the irs. have a federal tax and be able to try to keep somewhat of a balanced budget, although that is ridiculous now. but we need to get a better handle and make things easier for small businesses. host: thank you. amanda ballantyne? guest: i am not familiar with the tax proposal the caller was talking about, but i do think tax reform is necessary. we need to ensure that large corporations are paying their

fair share of taxes. right now, and the tax code, there are a lot of places where large corporations are privileged and small businesses do not have access to that privilege. from hours perfect -- from our perspective, there is a real importance. an hour members believe and are proud to pay taxes, proud to support their communities and the government in that way. there needs to be in either those that if you're making -- there needs to be an ethos that if you're making money, you need to give back. things like childcare, roads, infrastructure, public health and safety. i know small business owners in our network are committed to leveling the playing field for small business and ensuring corporations are paying their fair share. host: let's hear from heidi in washington, owner of a small business? caller: oh, no, i'm an employee of a small business. host: where do you work and what do you do? caller: i am actually a nursing

assistant. i work a woman owned agency. my biggest problem, as an employee, is, you know, i live in a blue state. it is hard work. i get injured. i live in a blue state. when i pay my taxes, i only get 80% back help me and my family when i get injured. then somebody from a red state like nebraska, on average, gets $.20 for every dollar that they pay in. so that is, personally, my employeeroblem, as an for a small agency, where i am prone to injury. host: let's hear from our guest, amanda ballantyne. guest: so i do not know i can

stateto the specifics of tax policy between washington state, where i live, and nebraska. it certainly sounds unfair. i wonder the quality of the areic programs that accessible to you in washington state versus nebraska. but i do think, in general, that there needs to be an effort to get the big corporations that have profited so much since covid started impacting our economy, to ensure that they are paying their fair share of taxes . and also that the federal government is helping support that are really, really straining to support the public programs necessary to keep the public health and safety in check right now. host: a couple of callers over the course of the morning spoke about loans and their concerns about being able to repay these federal loans they have gotten during this period.

how prevalent is that concern and what can people do about it? guest: i think it is an important point and a real concern. from the beginning, main street alliance and our partners and allies in this work have been calling or grants, not loans, just because we knew that, with the pandemic, income and revenue would be so unpredictable and, in some cases, nonexistent. and the type of support businesses need to stay on their feet is really a subsidy, not a loan, for many of these very, very small businesses. we have been advocating for changes to the way their paycheck protection program works that would automatically forgive up to 150 thousand dollars worth of the paycheck protection loan and would ease the requirements for payment. one good thing is many of the pandemic relief loans have very, very low interest rates. the one hand, on that is a good thing.

payment plans can be set up. on the other hand, some of those loans are actually guaranteed by onalness owners' pers finances, so there is particular concern that if businesses move into bankruptcy, they may actually see their personal assets targeted, and that is of rate concern to a lot of people. businessthis small saturday, our guest has been amanda ballantyne, executive director of the main street alliance. iance.org is the website to learn more about what the alliance does. thank you for your time and insight. guest: thank you. take care. host: we say thank you to all of our callers who weighed in. we will

>> watch washington journal live sunday and be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets. >> here is our live on c-span monday. two supreme court oral arguments. york onump versus new whether the president has the authority to prevent noncitizens from being counted in the census followed by van buren versus the united states, computer fraud. the house begins with a pro forma session with no votes scheduled later they take up a measure on legalizing marijuana. on c-span2, the middle east institute on a forum to combat isis. at 1:00, coverage of the arizona secretary of