senate subcommittee looks at the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on the entertainment industry and the challenges facing artists and venues as well as supporting industries. that is at 10:00 a.m. on c-span. on c-span2, the senate continues work on the nomination of thomas kirch to be a judge on the seventh circuit in the seat previously held by supreme court justice amy coney barrett. 9:00 a.m. on c-span3, a discussion on the expectation for foreign policy and the incoming biden administration, and at 11:45 a.m., looking at the 2020 voting experience with secretaries of state from michigan, pennsylvania, and georgia. elise gould discusses the impact the pandemic has had on the workforce and why robust

financial relief measures are needed. a.m., author and "washington times" national security correspondent bill gertz on the latest on a member of congress's ties to chinese espionage. ♪ host: good morning. it is tuesday, december 15, 2020. the electoral college affirms joe biden electoral's victory over president trump after electors gathered in every state and the district of columbia. president-elect biden said it was time for america to turn the page and unite after the 2020 election. this morning we are getting your reaction. calls on phone lines split up this way, republicans, 202-748-8001.

democrats, 202-748-8000. .ndependents, 202-748-8002 catch up with us on social media. good tuesday morning to you. you can start calling in now as we show you president-elect joe biden from last night in wilmington, delaware. [video clip] biden you know, : in this battle for the soul of america, democracy prevailed. we the people voted, faith in our institutions held, the integrity of our elections remains intact. and now it's time to turn the page as we've done throughout our history, to unite, to heal. as i said in this campaign, i will be president for all americans. i'll work just as hard for those of who you didn't vote for me as i will for those who did. there's urgent work in front of

us. getting this pandemic under control and getting the nation vaccinated against this virus, delivering immediate economic help so badly needed by so many americans who are hurting today, and then building our economy back better than it ever was. in doing so, we need to work together to give each other a chance to lower the temperature. and most of all, we need to stand in solidarity as fellow americans, to see each other, our pain, our struggles, our hopes, and our dreams. we're a great nation. we're good people. we may come from different places, hold different beliefs, but we share in common a love for this country, a belief in its limitless possibilities. for we, the united states of america, has always set the example for the world for a peaceful transition of power. last night inn

wilmington, delaware, after the electoral college affirmed his victory in the 2020 election. fresh off of that electoral college when, joe biden is headed to the peach state of georgia -- this is a reuters story, noting the trip coming ahead of the january 5 elections that could make or break his domestic policy agenda is what they write. noting that his narrow win in the southern state completed his transformation from republican stronghold to one of the country's most competitive political backgrounds. republican senators david perdue and kelly loeffler are facing raphael warnock and jon ossoff respectively in twin races. that is where president-elect joe biden is headed. write about the same time -- when joe biden was crossing the 270-vote threshold, president

trump making some news out of the white house yesterday, announcing that his attorney general, bill barr, will leave his administration next week. this was the president's tweet at about 5:30 p.m. eastern yesterday, with the president saying "just had a very nice meeting with attorney general bill barr. our relationship has been very good. letter,y the job as per bill will be leaving just before christmas to spend the holidays with his family. general jeffey rosen, an outstanding prison, will become acting attorney general. highly respected richard donoghue will be taking over his duties of deputy attorney general. thank you. "i ams what he wrote -- proud to have played a role in the many successes and unprecedented achievements you have written -- wrote for the

mac and people. your record is more impressive because you have a competent in the face of impossible -- impalpable resistance. that letter released with the president's tweet yesterday, right around the time joe biden was crossing the 270 vote threshold in the electoral college. getting your thoughts on the electoral college affirming the victory -- that speech by joe biden in wilmington, delaware. phone lines split up as usual, republicans, independents and democrats. we'll put the numbers on the screen as we hear from dahlia, republican in connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. fouri want to say is for years the news media and the democrats started a false narrative against president trump calling his family a crime family, and now we really have a

crime family going into the white house, and i predict he is not going to stay there for a whole year, and then we get -- does heamala really think we going to unite? no way. host: what do you think this country was united question -- last united? caller: hello? last wendy think we were united in this country, dahlia? caller: obama started the whole thing. he went out of his way to separate people. all of these people, all they want is for us to be global. in other words, the united states last. they don't care about the united states like trump did. that is why trump was so against everything they did, but it is going to come, and people are going to open their eyes.

fraud, believe me, there was a lot of fraud. host: dolly in miami. howard in atlanta, georgia. line for democrats. your thoughts on joe biden's speech last night. caller: yes, this is howard. host: go ahead, sir. caller: i just find it interesting that for the democrats it is like reclaiming black people's history from the beginning to see -- not to say whites, but for people like the president to come out and bash everything we have been going through -- black people have been going through this their entire lives in the united states, and to see this reverse itself -- to see this reverse with a lot of the republicans areas, and weth were out there dying and

fighting for both, and the struggles we went through. to see this frivolous stuff, and the -- they continue to try to breathe hatred -- i have never seen the likes of this hatred since years ago. i'm 65 years old now. i'm just hoping people will come together and realize we are in this together, and we need to move on and try to give each other a chance instead of breeding hatred. host: before we move on from all the 2020 elections, can you give us a sense of what you are seeing down there in georgia with the runoffs? joe biden going down there today to support the democratic candidates in the two senate races. caller: one of the big things, just about every second commercials are coming in. a lot of hatred from the republicans on the democrats trying to get into office.

the democrats are not spreading hatred. they are spreading what they are trying to do, and things like that. they are fighting back on well, thisf saying person that they are running against said that i did this, but that is out of context, and then they go on with whatever their agenda is, but as far as the republicans, they are spreading a lot of -- even if some of the stuff was true, they are spreading pure hatred and stuff like that. host: howard in atlanta, georgia. i want to share one of the scenes from the meeting of the electors in georgia -- stacey abrams, former gubernatorial candidate, in the page state, -- peach state was one of the electors for georgia. she was one of people that cast their votes for joe biden yesterday. this is some of her comments at the state capital. [video clip]

stacy: we stand not for ourselves, but for the people of georgia. it is on their behalf we took up discharge of the electors, on their behalf we are making sure the nation is led by a good man who believes in the soul of the nation and all of its people. it is on their behalf that we come together today to cast our r. biden joe -- joseph and kamala debbie harris. we are electors, and also a better-- servants of georgia, servants of a better future, and servants of the united states of america. host: and not long after, the georgia electors casting their 16 votes for joe biden for president of the united states. 270-vote crossing the threshold and going on to 306

electoral votes. that number of firms by the electoral college -- affirmed by the el toro college yesterday. statements last night, been described in "washington post" today as a second acceptance speech in his remarks from wilmington, delaware. a picture from "the washington post," joe biden greeting his wife after that speech. nancy, rochester, indiana. republican, good morning. caller: yes. i have watched trump before he got in the office, and i have watched him come in the office, and i watched them people get humiliated, and even their young its got humiliated, and

wasn't right. trump done what he could, he done his best, and he done better than any other president has done. nancy, do you think we can unite after the 2020 election? that is what joe biden asked the country to do. caller: i don't know. black, and iaround tell you what, i am not prejudice, but i do not like the way the trump family got treated. host: all right. that is nancy and indiana. sharon in plainfield, wisconsin. line four of the bookings. good morning. caller: good morning. i was watching fox yesterday and they senator republican from missouri, his name was brooks, he said he was going to reject

the election on january 5. brooks, the congressman from alabama -- he was on this program last week, last wednesday, talking about what he will do on the floor of the house. caller: he said he would reject the election. host: he was going to object to the certification in certain states. namer: i'm sorry i got his wrong, but he said we can call of our senators to pressure them to reject the same thing. i did not know that was possible, so he is encouraging the voteke me who felt was corrupt, to fight back against the corruption, because and iis so much of it, can't believe you try to sweep it underneath the rug. i think 73 million people like me want to fight back. that is what i am going to do. i cannot sit back and complain

about it and not do nothing about it. host: what you are talking about is he can object during the certification on january 6. as a member of the house, he would need a member of the senate to join him in the objection, and if that happens, then the two chambers will debate the objections. they can vote on it. both chambers would have to agree to the objections, and it would be very unlikely that a democratically controlled house under nancy pelosi -- caller: please don't ever say never because this is a different world we live in. i'm a 60-year-old woman. i was born in 1960. i have seen it all. i have lived through it all. never say never, because the corruption is going to come out. we have two domino effects right now and when dominoes fall, they fall forward. we have the swivel and we have

the biden family. if we all come together, 73 million people like me come together and start ringing out the corruption in this country, we can eat it. host: i don't think i said never, i said very unlikely, but mo brooks talked about his plans to raise those objections. if you want to watch the interview with him it was last wednesday. you can watch it at c-span.org. just type mo brooks into the search bar at the top of the page and you will be able to find an interview. diane is in barberton, ohio. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. number one, the first caller talked about obama. obama was the best president we ever had in the united states -- intelligent and kind. biden, i give him a lot of credit, because there would be no way i could read -- forgive

all of these people who have hate in their hearts. i am a 67-year-old white woman, and i am so ashamed of the way white people are acting. we have got to come together because trump is the type of person who is like your uncle who will keep giving you presents and taking the money out of your own checking account, and he would dip in and get it, too. we are going to have to pay back all of the mistakes he has made. god forgive us. thank you. goodbye. host: diane from ohio -- a few tweets and text messages. michael in portland, oregon, you for -- euphoria in our house, tempered by the emotions that must be ranging on the other side. both sides of the country must come together again and they

shall is what michael says out of oregon. this is why it out of mobile, alabama and. -- alabama. he writes "as a republican, i have increasing respect for mr. biden have to listen to his speech. i hope democrats and republicans can work together." confirmingollege president-elect joe biden's election. the next meeting will take place on january 6. vice president mike pence will preside over the meeting. you can keep calling in. --republicans,. democrats, 202-748-8000. .epublicans, 202-748-8001

all of the talk here has been about the relief package we have been talking about the last week or so. the package has been split into two different parts that includes new unemployment benefits, small business and, and other programs that received broad, bipartisan support, as the washington post described it. the second bill includes provisions that are most divisive -- liability protections for firms and roughly $160 billion in aid for states and local governments with the expectations that both of those provisions could be excluded from a final deal to exclude passage of the more popular, larger package. one of those members of the senate who has been leading this effort in this bipartisan bill, joe manchin, the democrat from west virginia, spoke to reporters yesterday about the bill. senator manchin: bipartisanship and compromise is alive and well in washington, contrary to what

you have been hearing. we have proven that within a one-month period, taking something that had not been on the table -- talks were stalled completely, and taken to fruition you have a bill presented. it takes care of those that are unemployed -- if you are unemployed, that is an emergency. week.e 16 weeks at $300 a food assistance -- nutrition assistance, even going into our food banks because we have nontraditional people that are probably never been to the food bank before needing food assistance now. we want to make sure they have the opportunity. we want to make sure we had grants,assistance -- eviction notices -- we want to make sure that was in this legislation -- small business debt relief. then we want to talk about student loan forbearance -- so much pressure on our students right now. that is in here. then it goes on and on, as you can see -- almost 600 pages.

so, what we have been able to do -- we a $740 billion bill have a $908 billion package, but the emergency needs we have in the assistance of the american people is something we are going to continue to fight for. host: joe manchin of west virginia there. we will keep you updated throughout the week as those negotiations continue and as the clock ticks down on that government funding deadline. lastly, congress gave itself one more week to come to a funding deal -- if a deal is not reached by friday evening, there could be a government shutdown and members trying to tie this coronavirus relief package to a larger government funding bill, and move both that way. we'll see what happens. and if they can do that this week on capitol hill. as we continue this conversation about the electoral college affirming joe biden's victory yesterday.

earl up early in writing, california. republican. go ahead. caller: thank you, c-span. i am up early every morning watching your program. host: thank you. i appreciate it. caller: i love it. i love the opportunity to speak by piece. i will make it brief. biden will never be president of the united states. let me just say that. let me say it again slow. soldiden will never -- out, old, stale, sold out to bena, tuna, biden will never president of the united states, are you going to call him when he is sworn in on january 20? caller: he will not be in the white house, i promise you. mark my words. mark the date down and the time, and i tell you why -- 3% of the

population overthrew the british rule. volunteer% -- i am a the unum veteran. i have had -- vietnam veteran. orangehad 13, 14 agent surgeries. you think the veterans will stand by after they have put their lives down for the country? host: do you think there will be some kind of civil war in the next month? caller: i don't think there needs to be. i think things will develop in such a way -- i do think god is involved. against a spiritual war evil -- i'm sorry, i see your lips moving, but i don't hear you talking. there is a spiritual war in this world right now and i know how it ends. int: that is earl california.

jason, falls church, virginia. independent good morning. caller: thanks for having me on cat i want to talk about joe biden "unifying message," and how ridiculous it is. i work in media and i have interviewed so many different black supporters, asian supporters of donald trump who have been attacked viciously in the streets in the last march and there was -- not the most recent one, but in the last one there were old women, people with children being hunted down in the streets by black lives matter protesters, writers, and antifa, and joe biden has never e tod condemn these specifically and he has never said as much as i disagree, i think that hunting these people down is disgusting, and he has had -- said things that are vague and nonspecific things. as they hold much

trump to account for anything that his supporters do or say, it is really disturbing the joe biden is letting this happen. if you go to any of donald trump's tweets, you can see people threatening donald trump's supporters, mocking them, and antagonizing them. if you want to preach a message of unity and you are planning to lead a country, you need to be able to be held to account and have people tell you to tell your supporters not to commit violence the way the media is constantly doing with trump, because there are people literally being hunted in the streets, and if they think it is going to get better when joe biden is in office and he has more power and his progressive wing has more power, i don't know what they think is going to happen because people with more rasr usually don't act less than peopleh with less power, so i am very concerned about that considering the media doesn't seem to care about asking him questions. caller: can you talk more about what you do in the media with

this media discussion being so much a part of both the 2020 and questions about how the media is going to treat the next administration? what specifically do you do? newsr: i work in broadcast and i do a variety of things -- i write, produce, and do a bunch of technical work as well. host: would you describe it as mainstream media -- caller: i would say the legacy media seems to have absolutely no interest because smaller media groups and independent outlook have that -- i'll let's have very little access to the president elect's upcoming administration. they are not the ones that get invited to his press briefing/they don't have an opportunity to -- press briefings. they do not have the opportunity to ask questions.

it is stunning, their lack of interest in asking questions, so when joe biden commented on the electoral college announcement of his win, instead of them demanding he respond to their questions about hunter biden, about what his upcoming administration would be doing, anything, they did not really care. i was watching it on msnbc, cnn, listening on various outlets, and no one commented on how strange it is or disturbing it is that he is research -- refusing to take questions from reporters because they are fawning over him. at this point they hate trump so much they are blinded by their own biases that they are not holding him to the same standard remotely that they have been holding trump to. if trump did not answer questions for a week, they would talk about it nonstop, and joe biden has not answered a question from a reporter he has not agreed with that of not been planted for weeks.

do you work for one of those legacy companies or smaller, independent media? caller: i work in independent media, and we do our best to report as accurately and objectively as we can, but we are not given the same access a lot of these big outlets are. host: that is jason, falls church, virginia this morning. plenty more colors throughout the segment. lynn, texas. democrat. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. thanks for taking my call. i have called them before. you are doing an excellent job. i think our nation can work together, and we have a new elected president coming in, and we can work together, sir. that vietnam veterans that called -- i'm a vietnam veteran myself. there is a lot of hope for young

people. you have a right, and i have a right and still have the right because i fought for those rights, to. -- too. our nation is going through that. that is all i have to say. host: sophia out of the bronx. republican. good morning. caller: good morning, john. i don't know what is going on with my party, the people. now i know. i studied it, i watched it, newsmax, one american news, fox news, they are driving these people to a wrong direction. i hear the last three callers -- i want to ask them to please -- you need to kneel down and pray and say thank you, god.

ago, hea half years looked up to mr. trump, which i voted for in 2016, you have a good democracy, you should keep it. leaving in the back door. i did not vote for him in 2020. 74 million -- my prediction october 4 when i called, bill was the host, and i said if mr. with 150s not win million or more, i am going to believe the russians because 50 years ago they said americans, good heart, but stupid. yesterday it was a good day than it was a bad day -- 300,000

people died. days, 1000 people die every day. is only about beingdit president. after his 100 days in the white house, when he showed up and i am --cannot leave believe i am the president. host: sofia in the bronx on sinceent trump's actions election day. here's more on that. "if biden has spent the last several weeks trying to ignore trump in building his administration. monday's speech amounted to anginate -- and admit -- admission that he had been hampered. for thepressed contempt texas-based legal challenge which was joined by 17 republican attorneys general and

126 congressional republicans that sought to overturn the results in four states that biden won. here is joe biden from last night. [video clip] , 17ven more stunning republican attorneys general and 126 republican members of congress actually signed onto a lawsuit filed by the state of texas. that lawsuit asked the united states supreme court to reject the certified vote counts in georgia, michigan, pennsylvania, and wisconsin. was angal maneuver effort by elected officials and one group of states to try and get the supreme court to wipe out the votes of more than 20 million americans in other states. and, to hand the presidency to a candidate who lost the electoral college, and lost each and every one of the states whose votes

they are trying to reverse. it is a position so extreme that we have never seen it before. a position that refuses to respect the will of the people, the rule of law, and honor our constitution. thankfully, a unanimous supreme court immediately, and completely rejected the effort. the court sent a clear signal to president trump that they would be no parts of an unprecedented assault on our democracy. [end video clip] host: president-elect joe biden. today, a wrapup of the increasing numbers of republicans who are acknowledging joe biden's win after the electoral college vote. they have the quotes from several of them including senator rob portman, of ohio saying "the orderly transfer of power is a hallmark of our democracy. even though i supported president trump, the electoral college vote makes it clear that

joe biden is the president-elect." "while the electoral process moves towards a final conclusion, planning must continue. of the jointirman congressional committee on inaugural ceremonies worked with president-elect biden and his committee. senators quoted there. if you want to check out "the thes" story, and members of house including jeff fortenberry with this tweet, "the electoral college has voted and affirmed president joe biden's victory. i want to thank president trump for his service and wish president-elect the best as he assumes the responsibility of governing our great nation." this is duane in new york, -- york, independent. caller: the height of the hypocrisy, they are worrying

taxes?unter biden's we are talking about trying to move this country forward during a pandemic, people who are suffering who needs the next payment on their mortgage, rent, and food on the table and they are worrying about trying to get trump back into office. i just cannot fathom why the republicans, and some democrats that are worrying -- wondering why you want to keep the man in office. you have a new administration, but us move on. he lost, he has used every entity to try and win back the white house and he did not. for those fox watchers, they need to stop looking at conspiracy news, that is all it is. they do not talk about the pandemic, or people who are suffering. let us move on, fox watchers. host: i wonder what you think about one former republican member of the house, paul

mitchell of michigan, who yesterday decided to step down from being a member of the republican party. his tweet yesterday saying "i am just affiliating, -- dis affiliating. this is what the outgoing michigan congressman said in that letter. foris unacceptable political candidates to treat our election system as if we are a third world nation and incite mistrust of something so basic as the sanctity of our vote. he sent this letter to kevin mccarthy yesterday and said "it is unacceptable for the president to attack the supreme court of the united states because its judges did not rule with his side. that is retiring congressman paul mitchell in his letter quitting the republican party. i wonder what you think about that move. void,: that is null and

because he is leaving and does not have a voice. someone else will replace him. he has gone and will not have any votes in the congress, so it is nice what he did what -- that he did what he said, and it is gone now. it is like the other person in michigan, who left the republican party and our out of office, so how do they help the country? i do not know. host: that is jamaica, new york. this is eric in california, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning america, i would like to thank the american public for the election that we had and i would like to talk to republicans about how we can fix this problem. i want to use a word that president obama spoke at nelson mandella's funeral, a reconciliation to do to bring this people to -- this nation together where you respect other

people's cultures and differences, and we can talk about the differences that we have. again, that as a nation that we can sit down at the table, white, lack, and different -- black and different cultures and -- and respect that we have different cultures and we recognize the things we have in common versus small things that may be different and we can work together as a people with different causes. i would like to celebrate the president. my grandfather and dad's name is joseph, my middle name is joseph, and my president's name is joseph. as the a joseph now bible said, a leader that was here from the people and a person who has suffered with us, as he has suffered and been

persecuted with the people. thank you, mr. president, joseph biden. serve the people. again, we will work together as a nation so that we can be a people of peace, like the bible and god has instructed us to be. thank you. host: eric out of california. this is emmanuel out of silver spring, mary -- maryland, a republican. caller: good morning, i wanted to quickly kind of make a comment in regards the republican party. i think the republican party is divided into two sections. willing to stand up against donald trump, and those that are considered part of that trump movement. it is really sad to see people willing to die for this guy, and also claim that they are christians, and also have

understanding of the will of the people. i want to remind people who are calling in and saying that there is a lot of fraud and this, and the other. evidence, itenough would have been overturned in the courts. who: are you are republican voted for donald trump and 2016? caller: i was. i did not vote for him again. happened insaw what four years. the type of tensions and how divided we were. host: was there a tipping point for you in terms of supporting him again? caller: coronavirus for me was the cutting point. and, even right now we had a caller earlier mentioning the fact that we just passed the horrible threshold, 300,000 corona,ied because of

and he is more concerned about tweeting about baseless things this and the other, but does not care about the american people's suffering. we have a congress and the senate that is not willing to pass necessary stimulus packages to help the american people. even thelly sad that, lawyers, when they go to court, they are on record saying that this is not about fraud. even giuliani was on record saying that. so i am not understanding why american people are not able to see that they are telling a straight up bs, and i pray to god that people do not die because of this stupidity and the nation does not yet divided more than it is currently. -- get invited more than it is currently.

these things are available for you to research. resource --get your as human beings we have a tendency of grabbing to what we want to listen to and that is not how politics works. i think, we have the internet and a lot of resources if you wanted to access certain things, we could. i just want people to really understand what is really going on, and that is all i want to remind the rest of america and, hopefully we come together and god bless the united states. york, on the new line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning. i am sitting here, i am a longtime watcher. i have been watching forever. and, normally, when i watch the i have been watching and -- msnbc, i used to

watch fox a long time ago, and i realized each time that they would be on there, at the end would be vitriol, just mean and nasty vitriol. and since president-elect biden him,ad the electoral for they are coming out and making awful -- and it makes no sense. it is beyond reason to see that something like this would happen, and that is all i have to say about that. host: that is joseph in new york. about 15 minutes left in this segment. getting your reaction to the electoral college affirming joe biden's victory. joe biden's speech been called a second expect -- acceptance speech. phone line split up by republicans, 202-748-8000. democrats 202-748-8000. independent 202-748-8002.

i do want to keep you updated on this story we talked about for the past couple of days, the suspected russian hack of u.s. systems said to have gone undetected for months. the hack of u.s. agencies and firms was met with alarm by current and former intelligence officials and others and it is wider than originally thought. both the u.s. commerce and treasury departments had some of their systems compromised according to officials familiar with the investigation. on monday, the list of impacted agencies grew substantially. the department of homeland security, national institutes of health, and state department were hacked as well. all three agencies declined to comment. the hacks identified so far appear to be a fraction of the total number of federal and private networks that were compromised by russian spies intent on monitoring internal communications. security and defense

contractors were among those breached according to one person familiar with the investigation." that from "the wall street journal." we will continue to talk about that in the days ahead. kevin in michigan, independent. good morning. you are next. caller: good morning, for all of your democratic callers who are talking about we should all get .ogether, and sing kum where was that when trump became president, that was trump. we cannot do that for him, but biden comes up and we should all make things good. as far as fraud, apparently maybe cnn and ennis -- msnbc and all of the bs mainstream media have not shown the pictures of georgia and after they kicked out all of the republican watchers they start pulling ballots out underneath draped

over tables. for one. michigan just had one of the dominion machines investigated. 68% faulty. 68% faulty. how may dominion voting machines are in michigan? or, the united states being used? host: when joe biden is sworn in, how will you refer to him, all you ever accept him as president? caller: no. and there are a lot of people that will not. we see what is happening and we know that there is a lot of voter fraud. i just found out that the constitutions our in our state do not mean nothing. any kindif we can get of corrupt people in a state, regardless of their constitution, they can do what they want. host: that his kevin in michigan. yesterday in state capitals

around the country, electors met account the -- to cast their votes. i want to show one of those scenes from that last caller's home state of michigan in lansing. the was about 20 seconds of final vote tally that was announced when michigan cast they 16 votes for joe biden as president of the united states. [video clip] >> has a tally been completed? >> yes it has. the electors have unanimously cast 16 votes for joseph r. biden. [applause] [end video clip] several ofn aired those vote casting -- votes that happened in state capitals

around the country live here on our network yesterday. if you want to watch the several and we had go to c-span.org you can view the proceedings in their entirety. back to your phone calls. this is jim, missouri, a democrat. good morning. caller: john, you asked an earlier caller when was the last time we were united? i would say 9/11, it lasted about one day. we had a common enemy. up until then, reagan had declared the government was the enemy. we like enemies, there is always them that we have to worry about. at one time it was blacks, then it was mexicans, then it was muslims, for the last four years , the democrats have been them, they are the enemy. trump cannot say the word democrat without some -- saying

something negative in front and behind it. and, as a crowning achievement of his desire to deconstruct the administrative state, he has cast doubt on our voting system. donald trump is the only one that said fraud. rigged, said fraud and before he won. same thing this year, only this time he lost. host: what would you say to democrats who think of republicans as the enemy, and as them? , i think they are just dishonest people. they believe in an ideology rather than the ability of america to actually work together. look at the coronavirus and what

is going on. this is how america should work. i do not know. best wishes, america. in lake city,anne tennessee. a republican. caller: we have a president elected about -- by the media. the media would ask them questions like what is your flight -- favorite flavor of ice cream, and how does your foot feel today? whyone of them would ask, did your son hunter asked for a key to the office that he shares with a chinese communist soldier? the enemy to america is the chinese communist. the governor of georgia met with a member of the consulate in houston before he signed a so --ct for $104 million for the dominion equipment.

that consulate has been shut down because it was a den of communist chinese spies. and i hoper enemy, for mr. biden that he gets the same transition that president trump god. host: before you go, in about an hour on "washington journal" we are talking with bill gertz, the author of the book "deceiving the sky: inside communist china's drive for global supremacy" and a writer for "the washington times." he will talk about chinese espionage operations in the u.s. influence operations so you might be interested in sticking around for that at 8:45. caller: they have won. host: this is tony in flushing, new york. democrat. that morning. caller: i just want to talk to

you about everybody talking about the republican party and the democratic party. and lingering on these minor stuff about, we treat -- the media treated president trump wrong. no, president trump treated himself bad. every time he opened his mouth, he said something -- he has not worked for this virus that is going on. he has not talked. all i hear is about me. it is like he is predicting this election that he wanted to take the votes away from the people. i mean, let us wake up. i do not agree with a lot of the republicans on what they are doing, but i also know that they have good republicans out there who are really trying, but they are held back because their

so-called leaders of that group. it is not about democrat or republicans. it is about us, the united states, the people. that is what makes us strong. and this president has always kept us apart. i mean, he does not care about us. how can anybody really not see this? you know? fox,ear channel five or but nobody is talking about the virus. we have 300 something people dying in this country. i am confused. and then this guy stands up there like he wants to be a king, the same thing that this guy who tended in russia -- this guy, putin, did in russia.

that is not what our fathers, mothers, and all of that struggled for, and the people who went to war in world war i and world war ii. we wanted our freedom, and this , how cans not about us we not see this. want to move forward, i want us to get together. if you are a trump guy and you do like him, ok. if we can talk, let us move forward, let us get the country back together for what it is and save the people who are dying and get our economy going. thatave families out there have no money, cannot pay their rent or put food on the table, and you are still worrying about trump,, on. he has lost. host: that is tony in new york. you mentioned vladimir putin. they story from -- the story

this morning. vladimir putin congratulates joe biden. "the russian president has congratulated joe biden on his victory. the kremlin called for a " collaboration" to solve global security challenges." if you want to read more of that story. five minutes left in this segment, getting your thoughts on the electoral college vote yesterday. i do want to keep you updated on some of the upcoming programming on c-span. first, james clapper will be joining other natural -- -- national security efforts to talk about challenges facing the upcoming administration. that is coming up in an hour and you can watch that life on c-span3 or online at c-span.org, or on the radio app. the secretary of state for

georgia, michigan, and pennsylvania talk about the 2020 election results with the bipartisan policy center at and5 on c-span3 and online, on the radio app as well. when it comes to the coronavirus and its impact on its country, the senate commerce subcommittee will hold a hearing on covid-19's impact on the live entertainment industry beginning at 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, and the free radio app. thursday morning, a reminder that the food and drug administration is holding its open meeting to discuss emergency use authorization for the moderna covid-19 vaccine and you can watch that beginning at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span3, c-span.org and the radio app. back to your phone calls. curtis, thank you for waiting. the line for democrats. caller: good morning. i am very happy when joe biden

won this election. i am very happy. an exampley has been to the whole world, the number one democracy in the world, trump has put this country down. america is not like it used to be before. himif he is so upset, let go and change his citizenship to russia. he can be a leader there for life. america, it is the number one democracy in the world. and, we are happy that this guy did not get another four years, because this country would not be able to recover from the totalitarian, tyranny. they do not realize that this does not believe in remote -- democracy. i am very surprised, but i thank

god that it has not destroyed the american democracy, for sure. i am very happy. host: bruce in troy, michigan. a republican. good morning. caller: i hope you will be happy paying four dollars a gallon in gas. why is abc, cbs, nbc not saying anything about joe biden's son? nothing. thank you. , westdavid, crab orchard virginia, independent. good morning. caller: the democrats -- the democrat, liberals, and news media spent the four years of setting the standards of how to unite this country and show respect for our current president? are you still there?

host: what do you think will happen over the next four years? caller: i am independent. do you think that the conservatives should follow their standards over the next four years? and, basically they are saying do as we say, not as we have ite policy, and we will hear the whole four years. the hypocrisy of the whole thing. hollywood, and all of that. it is just ridiculous. together,, -- come why wasn't biden saying these speeches that somebody wrote for him a month ago or a year ago. the hypocrisy of it. this country will not come back together. host: one was the last time we were together? caller: we really never was,

--n during 9/11, they added they called bush a whole idiot. the two parties, it is a hypocrisy. the callers call in and they show such disrespect to the current president. are they setting the standards for the next four years. you have a nice day. host: tim in wisconsin. a democrat. you are next. caller: yes, i would just like to say that are -- i glad that our republic held, because biden obviously won the election, by 8 billion votes, and i just hope that this can -- this country can come together, and i am glad that donald trump is gone. withused so much turmoil his mean-spirited tweets, and just by the turnover in his cabinet every day, and he was so

disrespectful to people in general. i did like some of his policies, i did not want to be in wars forever, but we need to get back to some form of normalcy. and the attorney general of texas trying to override votes in wisconsin, you had to have a voter id and jump through all kinds of hoops to get your vote in. i am just glad that the republic has held steady and all of these republican legislatures in various states like michigan, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and georgia stood up to president trump and some of his minions who are trying to overthrow the vote of the people of the united states, and it is a happy day for me, that hopefully we can move on together. i have many family members and friends who are trump supporters and we have several nice conversations. i hope that all of the country

can have civilized conversations and move on. host: you said one of the things you liked about president trump was that he wanted to get us out of wars. president trump looking to reduce troop numbers in afghanistan and iraq in the time he has left before january 20. do you think this country is more likely to get into wars, to send troops overseas over -- in a biden administration? caller: i believe that we should hold the line until biden takes haveand get more people to who know more about it, because president trump has fired all the people who know what is going on because he does not like what they say and do, so he fires them. host: do you think there are people who know more about it, or people who are inclined to send more troops overseas? caller: i am undecided about that, i do not know because i do not want to see young men and women all die needlessly in

foreign wars either, but i believe that we need to have a presence to hold the line, because otherwise i do not want to see isis or al qaeda come back, or any of these other islamic radical groups get empowered again, so i do not know the answer to that. i will leave that to smarter people. host: thank you for the call. our last caller in this first segment. plenty more to talk about including when we are joined by the economic policy institute's elise gould to discuss the impact the pandemic has had on american workers, and later bill gertz will join us to talk about the latest on the investigation of chinese spying and influence operations in the united states. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 has top

nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up with a virtual miami book fair saturday at 1:00 p.m. eastern with paul farmer and danielle. times"n former "new york latin correspondent and then pj or rourke and dave barry. and then nick ralph and. at 7:55, a discussion on the book "congress overwhelmed" with its authors. eastern, a0 p.m. historian and her book " strongmen: mussolini to the present." c-span2 this on weekend. >> "washington journal" continues. a seniorse gould is

economist at the economic policy institute studying jobs, policy, and wages. we talked about the impact on the u.s. workforce. it us on the map in terms of how many u.s. jobs have been lost during the pandemic and how many we have been able to claw back? guest: in march and april we lost 22 million jobs, a huge devastation in the labor market. over the last few months we have gained back more than half of those, but we remain at a deficit of 9.8 million jobs, and what is particularly troubling is that the growth has slowed every month. so, filling the whole has been slower and slower and we saw and added 245,000 jobs, but that will be years away from a full economy. host: for those who are stuck in the unemployment hole, what

extra benefits are actually still available from what was originally passed by congress and signed in march. extremelyt is valuable was the pandemic unemployment insurance program. there was a suite of programs passed, the first one, pandemic unemployment assistance expanded eligibility allowing many workers who had been locked out of the unemployment insurance system to get access and those were self-employed workers, they gave workers who had to quit their jobs because their kids' school went virtual and they could not go to work. the expanded definitions came under the assistance program that is still in effect until the end of this month, december 26. the second program was the extended benefits, the emergency unemployment, and that extended benefits so that once you exhausted irregular state benefit you could get an

additional 13 weeks. the third program has already gone away at the end of july, which was the compensation, the extra $600 provided to people to make them whole and be able to safely stay at home. we are00 has gone and left with other two programs and unfortunately, people have exhausted the programs. even though they are set to end for everyone december 26, people are exhausting those benefits. cliff,hen we had that how may people is an estimated what it be affected by those two programs? guest: about 12 million people would lose benefits on that day. they would no longer receive checks next year without that -- without extending that. it is devastating. these are huge numbers, the kind of pain that is being felt across the country is massive. host: talking to elise gould this morning.

the unemployment situation in this country. our phone lines are split up if you want to join the conversation. if you are unemployed, 202-748-8000. if 202-748-8001 you have recently returned,. all others can call in at 202-748-8002. as folks are calling in, can you talk about this bipartisan proposal that congress is working its way through right now, it has some momentum with congress trying to pass this ahead of adjourning before the christmas break before the end of this congress, before those programs you talked about end on december 26. what is in this bipartisan proposal for unemployed americans? guest: that is a great question and it is a moving target. does the latest report, it have important components, so the unemployment insurance program that i mentioned that

are set to expire, those will have additional 16 weeks, which will be vital for those unemployed americans. it will also add an extra $300 payment. many state unemployment systems programs do not provide full replacement. they might provide less than half of income replacement so the extra $300 would be great, and it will provide a lifeline for those workers and their families. that is important. notably what is missing is additional state and local aid that is absolutely vital as well. state and local governments are on the front lines of this crisis and they have to balance their budget and they are facing huge revenue shortfalls and they have seen massive declines in employment. even over the last few months as a private sector has increased we haveress, slowly, seen more losses in state and local jobs and we will see more of that if the federal government does not step up.

host: let us explain where we stand on this proposal. billioncreen, that $908 bipartisan bill has been split into two part. -- 748 billion dollar bill that would distribute vaccine distribution help, that is one bill. a separate bill is $160 billion that would provide money for state and local governments. as well as providing liability protections. that second bill seems to be the more controversial piece. there has been some talk that congress could move the first bill perhaps on its own if they cannot get enough support behind both pieces. the bipartisan group wants both to move, but that is where we stand right now. we will see what will happen in the coming days. one thing that i did not mention and we have talked about is another round of direct stimulus checks. president trump has called for a

new round of stimulus, perhaps as much is $1200. what do we know about that making it into one of these two pieces of legislation? guest: at this point i have not seen that in any of the agreements. that does not look like that will make it. and that is right, there were two parts and it does not seem like to me from what my sources are saying is that state and local aid will move forward because of the other provisions that were added onto that. notably, there are other things missing, so important, provision are not included, we are in the middle of a pandemic. workers to be able to have paid leave to be able to stay home when they are sick, not spread illness to their coworkers and customers. do not extend that provision is a huge mistake. host: and that 748 billion-dollar bill that has more support, just to run through some of the numbers of

what we are talking about. for schools, 13 billion dollars in emergency food assistance. for healthdollars care providers, $13 billion for farmers and growers. an bill would also have extension of the eviction moratorium until january 31 at which point lawmakers are hoping that rental assistance would alleviate pressure on rental orders -- on renters. that bigger package that members are trying to move. do you want to talk about the -- if you want to talk about the unemployment situation and let us know what is happening in your part of the country and with you, the phone lines are open. we are with elise gould of the economic policy institute. sherman is up first out of covington, georgia on the line for those unemployed. sherman, good morning. caller: good morning.

thank you for having me. i guess my question is that, which portion of the unemployment is run by federal and which part is run by the state? i know we were approved for federal funds, but our governor refused a portion of it that was supposed to be donated by the state, and i guess is that where that money or where does that go to? host: can you pick that up? guest: sure. there was additional money provided by executive order that required a match from states. i do not know exactly what had happened in your state, so i cannot speak to the exact question. the bill on the table would provide $300 from the federal government and would require additional supplements, and so those eligible unemployed workers would be able to access the money as soon as the bill passes, if it does. host: greg, from tennessee on

the line for those who are unemployed. caller: good morning. i just want to say hello, am i on? host: you are. caller: i have been watching this, and i have been unemployed for about eight months now because of this. i have an underlying condition that causes me to be at high risk for corona, and i have been watching this, and nancy pelosi and the democrats will not let up on the fact that they want other things put into this bill that they do not talk about. why won't they just pass a bill that takes care of the coronavirus people and deal with the other stuff different, not attach all of it onto a? i just want to hear what your thoughts are. host: what is an example of something you think is unnecessary? we fix the first bill, the kennedy center, maybe it

needed fixing, i have never been to the kennedy center. this one they have got something about marijuana research, or something along that line. i do not know what that is. ande are just things -- bailing out these states. i do not want to pay for california, i live in tennessee, we do not make the money. our unemployment is low. i am living on unemployment and i do not want to pay to fix california. they are leaving by the droves in california. the people who are there do not want to fix it. host: that is greg, in tennessee. guest: that is a great question. i am not sure of additional riders. i believe that we need to stay focused on getting the relief to people so that they can continue to pay rent and put food on the table, and that we feed the relief of the state and local governments and then we feed the recovery itself.

,here is going to be continued massive job losses early next year if we do not have a relief measure. i think that if this is really dire, and we address these issues now. i am not sure what other attachments he is talking about, i need to keep -- i think we need to keep an eye on what is important here. caller: this bit -- host: this bill that this group is pushing forward. $908 billion and it could eventually just be the 748 billion-dollar component. of cares act was in the area $2.1 trillion. democrats passed the heroes act over the summer to the tune of $3.4 trillion. what was in that $3.4 trillion package for unemployment and for some of these other issues. how much more generous with that bill have been? guest: that is a great point.

we think about the scale of the problem and 3 trillion is more to the scale of the problem we are dealing with. it seems like the policymakers are picking a number out of the hat and it will not do as much work. it is desperate, we need to do something, but on the order of $2 trillion or $3 trillion is what is needed. that bill had more extensions to the unemployment insurance program. remember, $600 is allowing people to make ends meats and feeding the economy because when people provide for their need, they are spending money. they are consumers spending money in the economy, and when they spend money in the economy they are buying goods and services, so then you need people to provide the services. and to produce those goods that feeds employment. that is the multiplier effect, and when we think about who is unemployed in the country, it is

low-wage workers will spend the money and the money will circulate more, so that is desperate. in the heroes act you saw substantial aid to state and local government which is important and extensions of all the other components. what we need when we think about going into a recession, we need automatic stabilizers so we are not tossed every time -- tasked every time with having to pass desperate legislation. we want to have these things in place so they automatically turn on when you see this devastation and we do not have to have an end date set based on this date, the end of the calendar year, the end of july. we need to look at the economic conditions and make sure that we keep it turned on. the pandemic lasted longer than people have thought in many ways. the numbers are continuing to skyrocket and we need to make sure that it is safe for people to continue to stay home as much as they can and provide protection for workers who need to continue going to work at

this time. host: coming back to the 748 billion-dollar package, the one that has the most momentum right now, a question from edward. "is this bill going to cover workers who max out there 39 weeks -- weeks of unemployment? guest: my understanding and i would say do not quote me on understanding of the details are yet to be sorted out is that they will add the additional 16 weeks, so it will get you back on, so if you had exhausted benefits you will be good until you mentioned april. hopefully by then a lot of the vaccine will be distributed, that is the hope and that will provide really needed relief. that is my understanding of the bill as it is written, creating a program that will provide additional 16 weeks to those people who will be or have already exhausted the program. host: on the live -- line for

those recently returned to work, steve. what do you do? caller: i do whatever i can. i do graphic design. i agree that there needs to be more support for the people who are trying to get back into the workforce. thatout here we worried $400 million -- it is really a mess as far as unemployment. you have got to see this here and there, but know that even though it happens, we should still have support for these people who have no fault of their own -- through no fault of their own heart -- are being forced to stay home. if you want to stop the spread, this is what you have to do. that is all i really have to say. host: you said that there needs to be more and more needs to be done. democrats in congress were holding the line on $3.4

trillion heroes act and they came down to $2 trillion, and it seems like they are going to be the area of 750 and $900 billion. do you think that the democrats should have done more to hold the line on a larger bill? caller: well, they try to hold the line, but politics gets in the way of everything, and i do not really know what the hearings or the meetings were in the senate because that is not televised, so we do not know what the negotiations are going on, and as soon as they get out of negotiation, the first thing they do is run to a mic and scream that some -- that one party is unbearable. they need to stop it and think about the people they are hurting out there. guest: that is right. when we think about people who are unemployed and the caller who had been unemployed for eight months. the long -- the numbers of

people, and the share of the unemployed,oyee -- one third have been unemployed for more than 27 weeks or more, so more than six months. and, this is really desperate for those people, and many of theirave been exhausting benefits, and how are they supposed to make ends meats, or putting food on the table or covering their rent. even at this bill, this only goes until january 31, so what happens on february 1? i absolutely agree with the caller that we need to be providing relief at the scale of the problem. billion in rental assistance at the scale of the problem? the "washington post" story we noted, lawmakers hoping that the eviction moratorium will be enough for rental assistance to kick in and help the folks who

might be facing eviction. iest: it is not a start, but am not a housing expert so i should not speak strongly about that, but it is important. i would like to see the moratorium extended so we can get to the winter. it is desperate times, we are in the winter, the caseloads are rising, we are in a pandemic, and it is devastating for anyone to be evicted at any time. it is inhumane to think about that at any time and doing it now is the wrong move. need to be protecting people. caller: can you compare the -- host: can you compare the economic situation that joe biden will be inheriting to economic situation that other incoming presidents have faced in the modern era? guest: when we saw the last incoming president, and four years ago he was facing an economy that was growing. solidlyomy was adding

jobs every month, and it continued on that path on autopilot for much of the last three or four years. from the growth that we had seen before coming out of the great recession. now, the incoming president is inheriting a troubling economy. there are estimated 26 million people who have been hurt by the labormarket, they be -- market, they became unemployed, they left the labor force, and there not -- there are not opportunities. there are far more unemployed workers even when we use the official definition than there are job workings and hirings. there is more trouble on the horizon. athink it is really devastating situation that the next president is inheriting. host: in terms of the negotiation, i wonder if you would agree with tony who says " it is idiocy to fixate on the

numbers and call for a meeting in the middle. need to focus on the needs to be met, then the price, and pay for it." guest: absolutely. we need to think about what needs to be done, and not just pick a number out of the air and say this is the right number. let us look at each of the areas we need to fund and fully fund them to make sure that we can provide the relief to people, and we can see this recovery. we know what happens in the aftermath of the great recession, why was that recovery so long and why did it take so prerecession the employment levels? it is because we pursued austerity, we did not end enough. the losses we have seen over the last few months are particularly devastating and we look back to the great recession, it was not until the aftermath that we saw these job losses and it took years longer for us to return to those prerecession employment levels because of the austerity,

particularly that -- the cuts that were faced at state and local government. already, we can see the devastating effects of this. host: this is out of kansas. good morning. you are on. caller: thank you. have notemployed, i been since 2011 since i was disabled. but, i want to hit on one thing. you mentioned the probability of another stimulus bill coming out like the $1200 one. i do not like that idea, the way they did it the last time, there are some of us, like me. i have to live on disability so i have to learn to budget my money as it is. and so, just to give me $1200 just because somebody else is

hurting, i do not think that is right because i have to balance what i already have, and i think that the 12 hundred dollars that some of us were getting, there is a chance of getting again, it needs to be held back for those who are hurting. is that one point gentleman asked about the other things that the democrats were trying to add to the bill. and he was having a hard time trying to distinguish some of those things. one of those things that they were trying to add was extra money for those that are illegally in the country. and, that is one thing that i would not like to see going through. if you are illegally in this country and working in the country, i have no problem working -- i no problem with that. if you are illegally in this country, you do not deserve to

get the taxpayer's money, even if you are paying taxes, you are still illegally in the country. host: on the direct stimulus payments, you say it needs go to the people who really need it. how would you identify those people. when they did this the last time, they didn't buy how much money you made in the past year up to a certain amount, you got the full stimulus check and then it tapered off or individuals, $75,000 a year, and then 150 for those filing jointly. how would you tailor it to get it to the people who need it the most? caller: well, they know who is drawing disability and who is not, social security, and who is not. so they could easily separate that from those who were actually working a job, and getting sending -- and sending taxes the government that way so they could separate them in that

fashion, the people who will like me who were already drawing disability and getting a set income, and not losing that. there is an extremely low chance we will lose that, because otherwise we would have to cancel all social security to lose that. we would have to disabled the whole system. host: where going to let elise gould jump in. guest: you said it was more efficient to make sure the people who need the money they are getting the money. and that is how the unemployment system works. unemployed you apply, and hopefully your state is up and running quickly. expanding the program will directly go to people who have been unemployed in this crisis and they need the money. that is a very well targeted program to hit those people in need. host: you make them argument that span -- expanding unemployment assistance is a better way to help people than

blanket stimulus checks up to a certain amount that you made in your tax filings last year? guest: that is right, because it is going to people economically harmed, so you could have some middle income families who have not been able to keep their job and giving the money while, it could help, perhaps save the economy, do not know if they will spend that money because our income has not dropped. you want to do what is the most efficient, to be able to provide the relief and you know that the people who are getting that money are going to have to spend it to get their needs met, to pay for their housing, food, for their health care, and all the things they need to pay for. they need that money desperately. and then get it to them because it is sufficient that way and that feeds recovery. with 15 or 20 minutes left elise gould. you can see her work at epi.org. and you can follow her on

twitter at eliselgould. we will hear from richard from colorado on the line for those who are unemployed. caller: good morning. i've guest: been unemployed since march, the pandemic is really. coloradonor in recently and i shall $375. when people call in and blame , when you haven't banks like us, and i am filling out paperwork now for my county. if they would have did pandemic which was begin with,

set pretty well, we would have had better thanksgiving gravy and better christmas stew. i have been writing a song about this because it is like, you know, there's more people unemployed, more people have more problems. under.usinesses going are absolutely right, this devastation didn't need to happen and when we get out the losses that people have had, absolutely we have to mention the health consequences and the devastating deaths and difficulties that many people have had in this country. but absolutely, the economic spread acrosss the country and has affected millions of people. sorry, linda,i'm

florida, good morning. caller: good morning. i many essential worker and i have been employed, but some of the places that we've been working for have closed down because of this. that, how long do people think that free money is going to keep coming to them? i have a business and it has overhead. if there is nothing left, i don't get to get a salary. i am just not understanding how people could think that free money is going to keep coming forever, it is not going to happen. i would just kind of like to ofe an idea of what kind stuff the united states has to support everyone out there. number two, where the people i know who got the $600 unemployment and did not want to go back to work?

many of them were called back to work, and they didn't want to go. so the employees were stuck there because they were getting more money from unemployment. my idea is just put everybody back to work and start feeding the pot in washington so that those who really do needed, which is not a lot compared to the people who just want to suck off the government, why don't we report that? guest: that is a good question. what is happening with the unemployment insurance system and whether or not the benefits are too generous, it is pretty clear that the benefits have not been too generous, even at $600, for most people. it's not like they were making more money in the employment insurance system than they would have been working. but it's impossible to ignore the fact that we are in the middle of a pandemic and many people don't want to go back to work because they are concerned other familyealth,

members that they may come in contact with. we have many multigenerational households. puttingd be your parents or grandparents at risk and those can have meaningful endeavor stating consequences. it's really important that we are able to allow people to stay home. but some of us forget that schools were closed across this country. some have reopened, and that is meant that parents have to be home to take care of their kids, especially young children. they have to be cared for. that is really important as well, that we are able to pay people to stay home during this pandemic. only be usedll not as relief, it will be used to stimulate the economy, and we will get on the other cited. it would be nice if we had taken this more seriously early on and we had completely shuttered and we had not seen the kinds of

debts that we have experienced in this country over the last several months. host: now to nick in west cancer -- westchester, pennsylvania. caller: i'm currently a grad student but i know somebody people at colleges and universities that the university closed or it is all online, and a lot ofat, them still have rent that they have to pay and they don't necessarily need to be living next the university, and there is no reason for them to have a space to rent, but a lot of them couldn't get out of their rental agreements and leases. on,ally think that earlier we should've considered actually canceling rent and canceling mortgages. another thing that i wanted to mention, i know myself as a dependent, i never got a stimulus check. what about people like me? not that i necessarily needed it

as someone else that i might know, but i very much think it is easier to just give it to every single american than to try to maneuver it like this. >> you make some really great points. i think it's important to bring the conversation also to who has been hurt in terms of health consequences and economic consequences. black and hispanic workers have been devastated by being essential workers and more likely to bring that illness home. also, more subject to job loss. also more likely to be living on the edge and don't have the kind of savings to be able to weather the storm. as you said, many didn't receive the stimulus checks and when we innk that young people, also recessions, they are disproportionately hurt. if you didn't already have a job and you are a job seeker, you

could not get the unemployment insurance benefit. you could expand that, you could have had a job that provided that kind of made. but in this recession in particular, we see the kinds of jobs that were lost in retail trade, now public sector dropped , many of these jobs disproportionately affect young people again. about a quarter of young people work in leisure and hospitality, they know the devastation that was impacted. we need to think about all these different compounding issues and make sure we are providing relief adequately to get to the people most in need. host: if you are collecting unemployment and your employer because you back to work and you say no, then your unemployment benefits will stop. just a reminder about people complaining unemployment, that is how it works. did you pick up on that? guest: that's right.

you can't continue to collect unemployment benefits if you have been called back. it also depends on the reason why you had to leave your job, whether or not you were laid off or if you quit. can't leave your children unsupervised, under the pandemic unemployment assistance program, you can still stay on receiving the unemployment benefit. that is why it's very important that policymakers extend those reasons, that eligibility to make sure that people who need that money and can't actually go to work right now are able to stay home, or able to stay home because they have to corridor to for a periodne can do so. we need to extend the eligibility as well as the number of weeks to provide that extra $300 to make sure that people can be made whole during these difficult times.

host: sterling, virginia, the line for those that are unemployed. when did you last work? >> i am not currently unemployed. i was, i got back to work at the airport. they might shut down my store but i have a comment for the people who are saying there should not be stimulus checks for everybody. right now, my dad is disabled. the used to work in the air force but they haven't called him back. only the people who could actually help the business, not everybody. so right now, my dad faces unemployment and he is not receiving anymore because the program is ending november 21. right now, i'm paying my student loans and i'm paying my rent and i'm helpingance and

my dad for food and anything else. so i also need help on my own. even though i'm back to work supporting my father and my uncle who is moving to my house he is unemployed and he has two kids. this 375 is nothing for him. i just have comments for people who say we shouldn't give this and we shouldn't give that. aredon't know, many people back to work supporting other people as well. thank you. you make an excellent point that the suffering is long-standing and there are many people, the father included, who were able to get unemployment insurance and have not been called back to work and perhaps would not want to be able to risk their health, i don't know

obviously more about that situation, but they are feeling exhausted. on december 26, 12 million people will fall off, policymakers should have acted. why are they waiting so long to act? the situation that has happened week after week. we are seeing more than one million new unemployment insurance claims every week still, now. we are seeing record numbers, higher than we saw in the great recession. record numbers of people still filing for unemployment insurance. they have lost their job again or they are newly unemployed. we know that pay has been cut. the situation is absolutely dire, even for people who are able to be called back to work. host: we have time for maybe one or two more calls. charlie in palm city florida on the line for those who have

recently returned to work. what kind of work do you do? caller: i do environmental consulting work and i just had a comment and a couple of questions. out, are several studies one recently that has a study that shows in the original cares billion which is just 44,000 people, primarily for tax relief and extensions, i don't know if she has seen that were got severalave friends, especially up in kentucky, that filed for unemployment insurance back in march, and still haven't gotten insurance. 78,000 people have not gotten their checks. in the previous governor, governor bevin, a republican, closed every unemployment office. frome had to drive louisville to frankfurt. they have got a 50-year-old

computer system that completely collapsed. we've got all this money going out there, and i don't see any investment. not one school system in the country is requiring the kids to be tested. we got 24 hour turnaround tests that cost three or four dollars and yet we are spending $45 billion on the airline industry, a huge bailout. what did they do? they went out and bought more stock. the tsa didn't even have thermometers to test people before they got in line. this is just simple stuff that you got to correct because if you can't make a mask and you are dependent on china and they make millions and millions and then hang onto them, we can't ton make a six-inch q-tip stick up your nose to do the test. we shipped all these overseas with the wto and nafta.

i've seen thousands and thousands of jobs, especially where i grew up in kentucky, just disappear overnight. so you've got a bunch of people out there working with seven dollars or eight dollars per hour, waiting tables and essentially living off of tips because the minimum wage for a waiter is like $2.34 brower. guest: i think we could have a whole hour-long show about each of these interviews you brought up but i will talk briefly about that first one. you are absolutely right. antiquated unemployment insurance systems have meant that people have not been able to get on unemployment insurance. huge numbers, millions of over therying to file last eight months or so. initially, many computer systems, many staffing houses were not able to handle that.

is,ay how antiquated it some people still had to rely on theirchines to fax information and they were inputting all this information by hand. people waiting on busy signals trying to call in, they couldn't even get through, computers crashing. we've known for a long time that they need to make these important investments in the employment insurance system across the country, and we simply did not make those investments. we could offer federal unemployment insurance, we can run it at the federal level. it seems like we need to make those investments and we need to make them yesterday, but we need to make sure we make them for the next time around to make --e that people can't get people can get back on unemployment insurance while being able to sustain being on for loans or benefits lost.

host: we will have to ended there, certainly a topic with a talk about again down the road. senior economist at the economic policy institute. thanks so much for your time this morning. up next on the washington journal, a discussion about china's espionage and influence efforts in the united states. we will be talking with washington times. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ >> the fda meets in open session to approve moderna's vaccine for covid-19. live coverage thursday at 9:00 a.m. eastern on c-span three. stream live and on-demand at www.c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app app. announcer: within the c-span podcast, the weekly. this become a reporter with the iowa press citizen joins us to discuss the race and i was second congressional district

calling for republican ller-mekks by six votes. find "the weekly" where you get your podcasts. you're watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government, created by america's cable television company as a public service and brought to you today by your television provider. washington journal continues. on chineseus now influence operations in the united states. our guest, a longtime national security correspondent for the washington times, author of the deceiving -- having those conversations anyway come out about a suspected chinese spy targeting california politicians. start by explaining to viewers who she is and what we know

about her connections to the communist party. this was broken in an amazing story by axios. terms, it is what they call a farming operation. agent and they began planting seeds of local politicians in trying to develop sources or people that they could use to influence u.s. discussionsublic about issues related to communist china. this suspected agent was able to locate eric swalwell and work within very closely, and he showed incredibly poor judgment in allowing a chinese national to come into his office and say

i would like to help you fund raise. in fact, i have interns i can put in your office. and then it turns out that she was under fbi investigation and swalwell tipped off and then her, and she then fled the country. there is also according to the report, she had extramarital affairs with two ohio mayors, one of them in the backseat of a car. this is kind of a pretty good spy story, even though it is a different type of intelligence operation than just stealing secrets. explained that term, influence operation. well, china has been seeking to influence the united states. but one thing china has really

done is to wake at the american public and the world at large to the threat from -- of the commonest party. time, for the first recognized that china and its ruling party are enemies of the united states. this is actually not a new type of operation. the chinese, we know going back to the 90's, were funneling money into the bill clinton-al gore reelection campaign and that was a major scandal in congress. it did not get a lot of traction at the time because china is so good at influencing the u.s. media, they try to play down the idea that china is an enemy of the united states when, in fact, every communist leader since mao has viewed the united states as part of a massive capitalist conspiracy to destroy china and therefore they are working very aggressively to weaken and ultimately destroy the united states, so that is why they send a lot of these influencers and

try to get people in positions of power. we've seen a similar thing happen in australia where actually, a member of the australian parliament actually was forced to resign when it was revealed that he was a secret member of the chinese communist party. or link to the chinese military as well. is kindlwell incident of the tip of the iceberg and i know that the trump administration has been making an aggressive effort to identify .hese influence operations just last week, mike pompeo gave a major speech at georgia tech where he outlined how china has theuenced and exploited american economic community for getting people to support its policies as well as stealing technology. let me get the viewers the numbers if you want to join this conversation.

as usual, republicans, (202) 748-8000 -- (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. .ndependent, (202) 748-8002 swalwell responding to that report, and what happened in ago in antion years interview with cnn. we want to play that and get your thoughts on his comments. this is eric swalwell. >> i was shocked just over six years ago when i was told about this individual and then i offered to help and i did help. i was thanked by the fbi for my help and that person is no longer in the country. and i was a little surprised to read about my cooperation in that story because the story

said that never was never suspicion of wrongdoing on my part and all i did was cooperate and the fbi said that yesterday. but the wrongdoing here is that at the same time the story was being leaked out, is the time that i was working on impeachment on the house intelligence and judiciary committees. if this is a country where people who criticize the president are going to have law enforcement information weaponized against them, that's not a country that any of us want to live in. i hope it is investigated as to who leaked this information. >> please operations are designed to build relationships but also possibly to get sensitive information. are you concerned that you shared any information with this person before you were notified by the fbi? muchain, i can't talk too about the details of the case even though others may have highlighted their own. i'm not going to violate mine. the story made it absolutely clear that no information was ever shared. host: congressman eric swalwell,

member of the house intelligence committee. your thoughts on his reaction to that story coming out? guest: it is a typical defense by a politician. it was clearly a huge mistake on his part, as i mentioned, to allow a chinese national to have a relationship. he hasn't answered a lot of questions, and this is a big deal. time, afor a short democratic presidential candidate. in addition to that, he sits on house intelligence committee. this is a select committee that only very select members can sit on. and yet, even though he have this relationship which again, he has not explained fully whether he had intimate relations with her or not, his staff have said that is classified information, there hasn't been a lot of answers as to whether or not this person may have influenced his views on communist china. came out lasthat week in the washington times, my insider column, i went back and

looked over the record where he challenged the homeland security department official on election interference, saying that there was no intelligence indicating that china had tried to influence the elections in the united states, which is simply false. the vice president said that in 2018, that according a senior u.s. intelligence official saying that what russia have done pales in comparison to the kind of influence operations that are being run by the chinese. host: with us for the segment this morning from the washington times, the national security correspondent, a longtime correspondent the washington times. washingtontimes.com if you want to check out his work. also the book "deceiving the sky: inside communist china's , richard is upy"

first out of new jersey, a democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, can you hear me ok? host: yes, sir. caller: i do have something to say about the government but first, i am so happy to be talking to somebody from the washington times because i , theed that the papers washington post, the new york times, the washington journal, the washington times and the washington examiner. the washington post was a newspaper over 100 years old. millions and millions of subscribers, new york times. host: can we get to this story about the chinese influence operations? caller: i've been waiting for a month to say this and am so glad. the new york times, 100 and 30 pulitzer prizes. washington times, zero. washington examiner, zero. washington times, 52,000. host: we will go to alexandria,

louisiana, republican. you have a question? sayirst, i just wanted to that guy is just nuts. look, i wish you would put on a pardons, and this is my question for the times man because he is doing a fine job. i was a military police officer and stuff and i had top-secret clearance in the 80's. bioweapon,his was a this covid-19 to destroy president trump in the u.s. i would like to think, does he think this is a bioweapon engineer to strictly to destroy the west and stuff? yeah, i have written extensively on this. i have interviewed senior officials with access to a lot of the most sensitive intelligence information and i can tell you there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that

this does link covid-19 outbreak to the chinese military. the problem is that the chinese government has stonewalled international community for nine months now, trying to figure out the origin of this virus. and on top of that, the chinese communist party has launched a massive international this to try ton campaign deflect attention on china's role in spreading this virus. out, we are just on the cusp of getting vaccines to the american population, and china announced probably six months ago that they had already begun production of a vaccine. you can't do that unless you have intimate knowledge of the scientific makeup of this virus. so we don't know. clearly, there is a lot of circumstantial information. i know that the intelligence

community has information about china's covert biological weapons program. i reported on this extensively, and i think hopefully before the trump administration the office, we can get some answers on what really happened and what the origin of the virus is. host: rochester, minnesota, joan is a democrat. good morning. i just wondered about this gentleman who i'm sure is a republican, but trump denounces china most of the time, but yes, his daughter works extensively in china, does a lot of business with china, and that never seems to come up, it seems to get covered up. and i think that china has always been there. howave an envy sometimes of far they have advanced and we haven't. and i just think that we need to concentrate on our country, not looking for blame at another country for other things, but just work on ourselves.

i think that would be a good thing to do. thank you. well, this is the central thesis of my book. we made a 40 year candle that if we just traded with china, if we ignore their human rights abuses, which are massive, if we ignored their arms proliferation, they sold nuclear technology to a number of rogue states, and if we just ignored russia's activity in the south china sea and other places, that this would somehow have a moderating influence and that we would eventually see a capitalist free market china emerge. it was utter failure. now we are facing a china that is on the march, it is no longer biding its capabilities as the reformed communist leader said. they are on the march in working against us. they are trying to subvert the united states, they are trying to subvert the remarket and national water.

and i think that people really need to be educated about china, and that's what i've been trying to do and all of my books in my reporting. host: explain the title, "deceiving the sky." guest: and a lot of people know about sun tzu and cheney strategy. this is from the 32 strategies which is called deceive the sky to cross the ocean. it basically means that, it is a story about an emperor who is fooled by one of his generals into going to war and the idea is that in order to win against your enemies, you must be willing to even deceive the sky or the emperor in order to achieve your enemies. host: taking their phone call. having this conversation in the wake of that axios story that called to light some of these include operations targeting members of congress. we will go to a report on the target of chinese espionage

cases. to put in perspective how much they are targeting politicians versus other sectors of the u.s. ofnomy, finding that 47% reported chinese espionage cases since 2000 sought to acquire commercial technologies, about half. 36% sought to acquire military technologies. just 14% sought to acquire info on u.s. civilian agencies were specifically politicians. specific we politicians. guest: and then you have to add the cyberattack as well. in my book i interviewed a former cia counterintelligence official, a high-ranking official. and he described to the what he said was an intelligence assault on united states by china. and he compared it the kind of assault we saw from the soviet kgb at the height of the cold war.

not limited to just gathering secrets and traditional espionage from governments, it is also going after corporate secrets and of course, they are all blended together. but in my book, i talked about the case of a chinese military hacker based in canada. and he was able for some $340,000 to hack into boeing and steal the design secrets for the military transport. not only were these secrets stolen and worth about $3.4 billion, the chinese then turned around and built their own transport which looks similar to the c-17. so it is an across-the-board effort. on the influence front, we seen it on college campuses. the tribe administration justice department has been leading the way in prosecuting officials who have been in the pay of the

chinese government for research, and it has been covert. basis, wea monthly are seeing academics and even chinese nationals being prosecuted for both influence and technology theft operations. area, thiso the bay is thomas, republican, good morning. caller: i want to thank you for your show, i appreciate it and everything you are doing. i just want to ask two questions. has the u.s. sold out to china? are we owned by china? another one, why isn't he in prison? he is a spy, i don't understand. the first one, the issue is that we integrated our economy extensively with that of china, and the results are this idea that if we just trade with china, this is going to mitigate the threat of china.

it was another failure. now there is a big debate within the administration about, do we decouple, do we decouple from china partially or completely? right now is a bill that was passed by congress which would require chinese companies that are inside our capital markets to be taken off those markets to western agree transparency and auditing principles. the is a big debate because chinese are basically funding the military through u.s. capitol market in the very stealthy kind of way. they don't really own us. on swallow, as he said himself, he did nothing illegal as far as we know. that heseems to think didn't do anything wrong. what he did do was he was compromised. he was, revised by a chinese agent. house minority leader kevin mccarthy last week said this is

something that clearly he should be removed from the house intelligence committee. nancy pelosi, the house speaker defendant, said she said she had no security concerns about him, so that is kind of where the swalwell issue stands. has been pressure on the democrats in congress to remove swalwell, at least from house intelligence committee, which has access to the most sensitive intelligence information that the u.s. government owns. host: a question that richard berman poses in today's washington times, how many more are there? guest: well, that is a good question. i think if i were with the fbi counterintelligence division i could give you an answer, but we do know that fbi director wray any major speech last summer set on average, they open a new counterintelligence case related to china like every 10 hours. thinkw that, i mean, i

the fbi has got its hands full just going after the illegal chinese spying, where this influence type of operation doesn't really cross the line into illegal activity unless classified information is involved. it is kind of a gray area. a lot of nations and australia are trying to deal with this issue of chinese influence, and they are doing it through legislation that would limit the access of chinese foreign nationals. the trump administration is focused on chinese communist party officials, limiting their access to the united states, so there is some effort. we don't know how many more are out there, but i'm certain there are many, many more chinese influence agent out there. on the other of the coin are those former officials who have been co-opted by the chinese, usually through money or through

access to china. these are officials that are not paid agents, but they echoed the chinese line up when it comes to any criticism of beijing or that type of thing. this is brian, independent. good morning. >> when required -- were public and party made it legal for foreign to contribute to anonymous campaign donations, that opened up the door for this type of espionage. went toen our ceos solicit the chinese for their slave labor and took tax subsidies to make jobs in the united states, they may jobs in china. .hat enabled the chinese when microsoft in the car companies went over there and

taught the chinese how to make their stuff, it gave them the ability to be able to do further espionage and intellectual theft. federal candidates are not allowed to take foreign money for their campaigns. can you talk us through that? something that i think in the swalwell case needs to be investigated. did this person who was doing with a cop bundling, that is basically fundraising for his reelection, managed final four in money, either through a cutout or through some other means? we won't be able to know because in my view, i think the fbi mishandled the counterintelligence investigation. this was back in 2015 where they gave what they call a census briefing to swalwell, telling him, look, you have a relationship with this person who we think is a chinese

ministry of state security agent. toy have tracked her meetings with chinese consulate officials, and basically by alerting him, within a short time, or we don't know the time period, but it is the same year, 2015, she fled the country. they missed an opportunity, as far as i can tell, to be able to either try and turn her into a double agent for the united rates, or to at least interrogate her thoroughly to find out what her network was made up of. ist: eugene, oregon, this jason, line for democrats. >> good morning to you, excellent show. give aid and a brother who spoke only the truth and i have to remind viewers of the senate majority leader's wife, the. surely they have family ties to china that she investigated as well. we are in the golden age of

misinformation, and i remind -- have aat .oundation plan to counter this guest: like i said, we are coming off of a 30 to 40 year period where china was an ally. i wrote a book back in 2000 called the china threat which was a play on what beijing called the china threat theory. in other words, they monitored opposition to china around the world and measured it how it would affect their ability to modernize. and i kind of blew the whistle on the china threat back then and it did not get a lot of attention. successive administrations, both republican and democrat have basically appeased china and the appeasement has been a disaster. monsternow got a global

that is around the world trying to displace the united states. their drive is to actually have replace chinese currency. this is a serious issue and again, it's not simply a matter that republicans did this were democrats did this. both democrats and republicans mishandled the china threat for many, many years. it was only during the trump administration that they began to turn things around. host: how much reporting have you done on hunter biden and china? guest: i have done some, but not too much. i think it is an important story. clearly, there is a lot of information out there that he had a very strange relationship. i've been working behind the scenes on some of these stories. he clearly was getting a lot of money from china. he announced just recently that

is under investigation for tax issues. clearly, we have not gotten clear answers from any of the bidens about their relations with china work, for that matter, with ukraine. host: doug and gold hill, oregon, republican, good morning. caller: he just brought up what i want to bring up. are you concerned with the bidens before they ever set foot in the white house? there was a big concern sometime back with president trump and that he was going to be blackmailed. well, you know, we will have to see. what comes out of other

improprieties related to china, but i can tell you this, but the chinese spent a lot of money trying to influence joe biden through hunter biden. i think that is something that will come out eventually. we don't have the details at this point, but clearly, the chinese are going to make a run at the biden administration. they want to go back to the business as usual of the previous republican and democratic administration. i think it's going to be difficult to do that. there not clear on how biden administration will handle china. initially, joe biden very early in the presidential race came out and said we can't compete with china, they are really nice guys. quickly backed off of that and realize that china is a big issue, was a big issue in the presidential campaign. his new position is that the united states needs to win the competition with china. we will see whether or not the

biden administration can do that. and a lot will depend on the officials he picks for the key policy positions. >> a question from twitter this morning from doug who writes in, what effect has trump's isolationist policy and withdrawal from developing countries had on china's ascendance across the globe? they: well, i don't think have had an isolationist policy. they have had what they call the america first policy. it idea behind that is that goes back many, many years that nations don't have friends, nation cap interests. interests america's way above foreign interests and i know that this is going to be a debate in the biden administration. one of the relationship of the united states should have with other countries around the world? it will be interesting to see whether the america first policy will be completely undone by a biden administration or whether key elements especially as it

relates to keeping jobs in the united states, bringing manufacturing back to the united states. host: reidsville wisconsin, this is patty, democrat. caller: thank you for the reporting. it might be interesting to list how many of our companies are dependent upon china for their manufacturing, but how do we separate the humanity from the bad actors? and what are we doing as a nation that might not be quite reputable? thank you for your response. guest: well, you know, america is not perfect but i think it is the best system anywhere in the world. it has produced the most incredible wealth in human history, and this is, i think the united states has led the way in creating what we have today. look at any communist system around the world. there's no communist system anywhere that has produced nearly what the united states

has. and yet, china is trying to pretend that it is a quasi-capitalist marketplace when in fact, we see under its nping,t dictator xi xi they are actually moving closer to more state-controlled over what were some quasi-independent businesses. i hope that answers the question. host: talking about listing some of the influences, i want to go back to richard herman's question and washington times this is what he writes. china has purchased 2000 u.s. companies including those incenses areas like aerospace to gain foothold in technology and influence. inhave supply chains tied up china, 97% of our anabiotic's come from china. the rareplied 80% of

earth minerals which are necessary for the function of smartphones, military hardware, and other modern technologies. the u.s. does not have any such mind to open. the things that happened under the trump that committeeis on foreign investment in the united states is strengthening. group thatteragency really examines foreign purchases for national security applications. clearly, there have been a lot of chinese investments in the united states in u.s. companies. the pentagon is keenly aware of the supply chain issues and the rare earth issues, that is the mineral that are used to make high-technology components. they are doing things to try and protect that. years, we have let our guard down. we have totally integrated with communist china.

again, goingis, back to the late 80's where china was not a threat, it is not a threat, they kept insisting that china posed no threat to us. and then even a certain point they said we want a strong china. was really a huge mistake for the united states to do this. now we are reevaluating all of that and we are trying to protect ourselves in terms of economic trade. host: about 10 minutes left this morning. we have been talking about as well, "deceiving the sky: inside communist china's rise global supremacy." this is eric, a republican, good morning. democrat, no, i'm a thank you for taking my call. amazing to me that this gentleman has so fixated on the bidens that he did not answer the question that the young lady just acting -- ask him about

president trump's daughter with her patterns. are you investigating them? it is amazing to me. bidenght think that joe in china,and agreed and if that is so, president trump definitely did. please answer the question about her daughter and her company. what: well, i don't know ivanka trump's investments in china are. years,t was that for 40 both democrats and republicans have ignored the china threat and just said don't worry about how it will impact manufacturing and jobs in the united states. that was a mistake, that is the point i was making. we need to reevaluate that investment on both sides of the aisle and we need to start focusing on what we can do to fix our system here.

host: pennsylvania, good morning. caller: i have a lot to say and a short time to get there. with all the circumstantial evidence coming out right now, there's only three factions that have benefited from this pandemic. one is thea, democratic party, and third is the bidens. i am glad there are people on here who are starting to realize that. i've been saying it for months. i don't know how we are going to stop them. our government is rotten to the core and the swamp is a lot deeper then mr. trump said it was. god bless america. that: well, i would add

part of the problem has been the u.s. media in my business. they have not reported aggressively on china with a few exceptions. i think there been a lot of pay to the newt, york times. i don't think the new york times has written a single story on the swalwell-china influence case. that kind of shows you the kind of pro-china bias that we've seen a lot of the u.s. media. i would make that point. host: lee in pennsylvania, independent, good morning. caller: thank you for having me. i'm a masking occasions professor and have been for 20 years. and i wanted to make a comment about what you were saying about china in higher education and i've taught all over the country, i have taught in texas

and north carolina, california, florida, all sorts of different places and universities, colleges. small colleges. in i can confirm to you that research one institutions, specifically in the area of e-commerce, public relations and marketing, as well as integrated systems such as management of information systems, and interdisciplinary areas that are technology-related, areas where you see a lot of faculty coming in and teaching from communist china and have those experiences. i would like to get to your commentary on some of the facts. i wanted to hear you talk a little bit more about what you've researched in higher education regarding that, please. thank you. guest: sure. i would make the point that china has a program they call

made in china 2025. the point of this program is to go out not just of the united states, but to other countries of the world and try to gather both expertise in terms of people as well as information and technology and bring it back to china. and i think that we've seen, i've seen a number of justice department prosecutions of academics who have been co-opted by this program. they've taken large amounts of money and the chinese are spending upwards of $500,000 per year on a particular professor or some researcher who has access to the kind of information that china wants. and it is a major problem. the other thing i would point out which i haven't talked about is the chinese confucius institute. of stencil -- obstenvstencil he

sively buying their access onto campus and a lot of universities became addicted to this chinese money and in so censor they had to self- by not criticizing china's human rights record like the imprisonment over one million in western china. the trump administration has really gone after these institutes. they are again kind of a stalking horse for a lot of these technology collection programs. ofy've convinced a lot universities to separate from the confucius institute. dayton ohio, this is mark, a democrat, good morning. caller: i would like to know what it ordinary american can do to counter chinese influence in america. thank you. guest: well, it's a good question.

it is really a top-down problem. when you are dealing with a nation like china, i think the best thing that people can do is to press for clear answers and information so that when you have a situation like eric swalwell who was compromised by a chinese spy, that we get for answers from our elected officials and government officials. that it is not allowed to be swept under the rug by saying this is all classified information and we can talk about it. let's make some of this information public. we know that there is a lot of cases out there, but a lot of times the government is reluctant to reveal what it knows about the activities and operations of the chinese in the united states. there needs to be a much greater effort. as far as the media goes, they need to start covering these issues any much more aggressive way. at theell you that washington times, i am almost

dedicated full-time to reporting on chinese security and intelligence-related issues. host: time for one more call, this is kelly in washington, independent. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, sir. caller: hello, thank you. sorry, i'veto say, got another call here. thanks for being on the platform here and expressing your views. and, uh. sorry, losing my train of thought. it is really disappointing that i have to listen to fox news all the time to hear anything about china and you have a point, the media is not really covering china that much at all. but i just want to get your aspect on china's influence in, say, latin america and south america. i know they are trying to have a big influence there. thanks. host: two minutes left, go ahead. guest: again, the chinese are on

the move. they have something called the belton road initiative which is an infrastructure development program. again, it has been used as a deception effort by the communist party of china. they go into countries in africa, latin america, south asia, and they say we want to build a railroad for you, and we will even finance it for you. and then they give them the financing at exorbitant interest rates. then the government says we can pay for this and they say well, now it's ours. and they take over. they've done that any number of countries and what i see them doing is in the developing world, kind of doing encircling strategy around the more developed nations of the world so they can build up their influence. there's also a military component to this, they are ses,loping a network of ba commercial ports and access agreements with countries that

china could use for military operations the future. again, our intelligence agency told us for years that china had no global military ambitions, only wanted to take over taiwan. now we see that they have global ambition, to basically take over the world. host: national security correspondent for the washington times. the book again, "deceiving the sky: inside communist china's drive for global supremacy." we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: about a half-hour left today and in that half-hour we are asking you in the wake of the announcement yesterday that bill barr is resigning from his post as attorney general, effective december 23, we want to know what you think his legacy will be as attorney general. phone lines for republicans, democrats, and independents on your screen. go ahead and start calling in now and we will be right back. ♪

♪ announcer: stay with c-span for our continued coverage of the transition of power as president-elect joe biden was closer to the presidency. with the electoral college votes cast from states across the country, join us on january 6 live at 1:00 p.m. eastern for the joint session of congress to count the votes and declared the winner for president and vice president. 20,lly, at noon on january the inauguration of the 46th president of the united states. live coverage begins at 7:00 a.m. eastern from the statehouse to congress to the white house, watch it live on c-span, on the go it c-span.org, or listen using the free c-span radio app. ♪ announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: president trump yesterday announced attorney general bill barr has resigned from his post as attorney general. he is stepping down december 23.

we are asking in the wake of that news what you think the legacy of the attorney general will be. republicans can call in at (202)-748-8001, democrats (202)-748-8000, independents (202)-748-8002. as a reminder, bill barr serving his second term as attorney general. his first stint during the george h w bush administration. after leaving the justice department he went on to serve about 16 years in private sector work as a general counsel for gte corp. which has become becomingntil 2008 and attorney general again between 19. that coming to an end december 23. we want to know what you think his legacy will be.

republicans, democrats, and independents call in this last half-hour. chuck is up first out of dolores, colorado, a democrat. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. up whensafire summed it he wrote an article when barr was hw's attorney general. instead of just o gooning weinberger, t ahead and pardon ollie north and the whole cabal. contraded the iran investigation and covered a whole bunch of stuff up like the cia importing cocaine into illegal war.nd an

tried to get rid of the rtc -- host: get back to bill barr. caller: yes, sir. host: what do you think his legacy will be? caller: just like william safire wrote, he called in the cover-up general. bill barr walked over the mall report and gave the wrong impression. it was just a complete cover up again. that is what he is. bill barr will clean up the mess for you. host: that was chuck in colorado. president trump tweeting yesterday at about the same time joe biden crossed the 270 vote threshold needed to secure the

presidency in the electoral college. tweeting, "had a nice meeting with attorney general bill barr. our relationship has been very good. he has done an outstanding job. as per his letter, he will leave before christmas to spend the holiday with his family." bill barr writing in part in the letter, "i'm greatly honored you called on me to serve your administration and the american people once again as attorney general. i'm proud to have played a role in the may successes and unprecedented achievements you accomplished as president. you did so in the face of implacable resistance. your 2016 victory speech and which you reached out to opponents and called for working together was immediately met bipartisan onslaught against you in which no tactic, no matter how abusive and deceitful was out of bounds, it was an effort

to oust your administration with frenzied and baseless accusations of collusion with russia." he went on to say, "you forged ahead with the positive program for the country." that was part of the resignation letter bill barr sent to president trump. missouri, democrat, what you think bill barr's legacy will be? caller: it is a big report we had about russia and all of that. all i had ever seen was a lot of blank pages. i think this will go down as a flunky for a more on. that is about what he amounted to. host: florida, republican. lola, what do you think? caller: hello? host: go ahead. what do you think his legacy will be? caller: i think you will not have a legacy because he did not do anything for us. [laughs] caller in little while ago when the gentleman was on

from the newspaper, and he said he was tired of fox news. i would tell your listeners also i give up fox news. they should get a roku device and they can get newsmax and america's voice free of charge and get a lot more education on what is going on with all of the politics that people do not want to hear on your channel or others. thank you for my call. host: that was lola in florida. president trump tweeted saying his relationship has been a good one with bill barr. usa today in their wrap up of the resignation noting, over the weekend, president trump had rebuked bill barr for not revealing a disclosed inquiry into hunter biden's taxes during the campaign in which the president saw to tie joe biden to his son's financial dealing.

breaks began to show when the president ramped up pressure on the attorney general, openly calling on him to use the power of his office against biden and others. the story noting there were no ugly words from trump on monday. he described their meeting is a pleasant one. out of south pittsburgh, tennessee, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say about bill trump has created a cult. i do not understand how anybody could follow him. maryland,a in republican. what you think bill barr's legacy is going to be? caller: i think at one time he was a good person, but i think he has something to hide now. i think trump did the right thing to get him out of there and i would like to know why somebody has not had the guts to

file charges and subpoena all the bidens. robert in new york city, independent. what you think bill barr's legacy is going to be? caller: i would say remember he advised bush to pardon members of the iran contra affair. he carried over that legacy when he tried to preempt mueller's assessment of his own report. -- i would say his legacy is dead. his love letter yesterday was pardon, and his

legacy will be covering up for crooks. host: that was robert in new york city. here are some comments from members of congress in the wake of this news yesterday about bill barr stepping down. it will be one week from tomorrow. ted cruz of texas, bill barr is a friend and patriot. despite vilification in the media and attacks against his character, he has served this country with honor and distinction. his retirement, though a loss for the country, is well-deserved. i wish him and his family well in this next chapter. this from senator lindsey graham, south carolina republican saying, william barr was the right man at the right time and overseeing highly political investigations and stood in the breach at times against both the left and the right. america has greatly benefited from the service of william barr as ag and i wish him well in future endeavors. a few more tweets from congress.

republican pat toomey of pennsylvania, unfazed by political pressure from either side attorney general barr proved time and again he understood his obligations were to serve as the nation's top law enforcement officer and uphold the constitution. i appreciated his work to end city policy, keep guns away from felons and the dangerously mental ill, and support law enforcement officers. bar welltorney general in any future endeavors. house majority leader hoyer saying, during the course of his tenure as attorney general diminished the integrity of his office, eroded the independence of the justice system, and substantially undermined his own reputation. he went on to say, it will be up to his successor to restore the justice department to a place of independence and integrity, for which americans could have respect and in which they can have faith as the protector of justice and equality under the law.

hollen, thes van democrat from maryland, despite being his political lapdog for years the minute bar refused to spread lies about widespread voter fraud, he was on trump's chopping block. cannotet rid of bar but hide what the electoral college made official -- joe biden won the election. alex is in miami, florida, and independenan independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. i thought he did a great service to our country and he previously served for president bush as you stated. he could have gone on to just work in private and make millions of dollars, but he decided to come back into public service deserve president trump and make sure our country is safer all americans and that the rule of law -- no one is above the rule of law. i think people should look at the whole legacy of attorney

general barr and see that he was a good man. he may not have done everything right, like any administration, some people can get things wrong, but he did not do anything illegal i would say. host: what do you think he got right and wrong? one think he got right in one -- thing you think he goton wrong. caller: i think with sanctuary cities and making sure people living in our country that are not documented, the ones that are faithful and law-abiding, continue to have protection and can live in freedom. those that consistently break the law and are a threat not only themselves but other americans, and other immigrants like themselves, that they should be dealt with accountable he and they are not a front to all americans. of the.that is the job

to get something wrong at times it would seem he seemed to be under pressure of the president. the attorney general, like every cabinet member, is accountable to the president and they serve at his pleasure, but it seems there are times he seemed to be under undue pressure. it is always important for a cabinet member did not seem like -- the media would argue that mr. barr had no independence at all, but i'm sure he did in private give his opinions on a bride variety of -- broad variety of issues. supported president trump the first time at this time. i hope this country, with the new administration, that they always focus on what is right for everybody, they follow the constitution, and that this

great country can continue to exist. host: are you worried about the next administration attorney general not having enough independence of being influenced by joe biden as president? caller: well, personally, i think joe biden is a good man. his policies i disagree with. i hope he does not use his attorney general in ways that would really take away from his responsibilities. i know president biden will have his agenda with the doj and whatever that agenda is the attorney general should implement it, but i hope whoever he picks -- i know he has not chosen yet -- but it is a person of integrity, that has government experience, that understands how to use that power, but that he or she always in a way theyr

consider the pros and cons. they do not take decisions lightly and that when he meets with president biden they discuss what policies are good for all americans. dojke other agencies, the is one of the most important cabinet departments we have. some other countries in this world our so full of law that nobody is treated with due process. in america, everyone has core rights. host: last question, is there a democratic name floated for attorney general you think would fit the mold of somebody who would do well in that job? caller: i have heard he was considering senator doug jones of alabama. since he just lost his dolection i would say -- i not know his whole life story, but he served president clinton as the u.s. attorney. he does have experience with the

doj and he seemed, to me during his time, as someone who had an open mind. at times he would follow the democratic party's policies, which i do not blame him for that, he's a democrat and proud of his party, but he seemed to to go the other way and do what he thought was right in certain bills or nominations. i think he would be possibly a good choice of the people i've seen so far. he is the one i really heard about that could be a good choice. i hope president biden does a good job with that choice. host: thank you for the call. about 10 minutes left in our program today. a reminder, after we end on the washington journal would take you over to the senate commerce subcommittee hearing on covid-19's impact on the life event entertainment industry. that begins at 10:00 a.m.

eastern on c-span, c-span.org, and the free c-span radio app. also, secretaries of state of michigan, pennsylvania will talk at a bipartisan policy center. you watch that 11:45 eastern on c-span3, c-span.org and the radio app. on thursday morning, food and drug administration is holding an open meeting to discuss the emergency use authorization for the moderna vaccine. you can watch that live beginning at 9:00 eastern on c-span3, c-span.org, and the free c-span radio app. on on thatews going front, the vaccine front. the fda reviewing moderna's emergency use authorization application. that is what is going to be talked about at that thursday meeting. some details that came out today, the food and drug administration releasing their data on the reviews, showing the

moderna vaccine is safe and " highly effective in preventing cases of the virus in adult. clearing the way for the emergency use authorization of a second vaccine." the review confirmed mader -- the vaccine had over 90% efficacy. that is a preview of what is going to be happening on thursday. brenda out of new york city, democrat. what you think bill barr's legacy is going to be? caller: i do not think his legacy is going to be what he really expected it to be. he did not represent the people. that is what he is supposed to have been. he was supposed to have been attorney general for the people, not the president. the law applies to everybody, not just the -- it applies to

the president, too. nobody is above the law. he misrepresented the mueller report, he caused chaos on uniteds of the dead , and he did not uses independence to be attorney general for the people. host: brenda in new york. this is sylvia out of north carolina, a republican. what do you think? caller: i do not think he is going to have a legacy because him holding back on joe biden, the whole family. that is my joe biden, as he says, got all the votes. what joee did not know biden and them were doing. these people that voted for joe biden, well, one day wake up and

say, my god, what did i do? william barr should've come out in the beginning with all of this and he didn't. william barr, i am sorry that you did what you did because, in the beginning, i thought you were a decent man. but the president of the united put in to protect america and the people of america. he has done his best. that it turns around that president trump will stay as president of the united states. that for keeping up

and trying to keep america and the people safe. i love america, america is my home, i was born and raised in ed in the united states of america. host: that was sylvia in north carolina. the president announcing bill barr stepping down. they had a good relationship with a tweet yesterday. this was the tweet from saturday morning at about 950 time a.m. eastern. revealed the truth about hunter biden. joe was lying on the debate stage and nothing was wrong or going on. press confirmed. big disadvantage for republicans at the polls." jim in florida, independent. what you think his legacy is

going to be? caller: i think it was intact a positive prior to coming back into public service. while in public service as the attorney general, he really did not accomplish much. there were so many people that were involved in what i would consider a nefarious or criminal activity, such as the pfizer situation and others. no one was held accountable. appointed special prosecutor and we never heard from him. i think a lot of people are frustrated they witnessed so much wrongdoing and people needed to be held accountable and none were. unfortunately, i think that his legacy will be tarnished from all of this. host: this is gwen out of birmingham, alabama, democrat. caller: good morning, john. first of all, his legacy is very

tarnished because, as an african-american and a woman in the united states, i feel very abandoned behind william barr and a lot of these republican legislators. let me say this. , to themericans, too woman from north carolina. i was born and raised here. we have been degraded, we have been looked down on for the right to vote, it is a disgrace. america is being seen as a disgrace right now from other countries. donald trump and the republican party are trying to demean the vote of african-americans. i'm very offended with what is going on in america. william barr is a disgrace. what went on with george floyd and black lives matter, people stood by.

you are going to have to have something about these black churches burned down by the proud boys and trim supporters. that is what i want to talk about. white evangelicals that love trump, why are you not talking about that? this was a disgrace in america. donald trump is trying to demean and take away black people in the urban cities. host: that was gwen in birmingham. this is chris in hendersonville, north carolina, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to talk about the election down in georgia. host: q1 talk about bill barr's legacy first? caller: no. the senate seats are important. host: we have plenty of folks tried to talk about our subject which is bill barr stepping down and only if human is left. we are going to stick with those comments. this is nina and columbus, ohio,

independent. caller: first and foremost, it was refreshing to hear from alex from florida i believe? as an independent i love he spoke on policy and not necessarily political tribalism. it was nice hearing from you, alex, even though we disagree on some policy. as far as william barr, when he first came into office i tried my darndest to give him the benefit of the doubt, but i realize he was a self-serving coward. the moment the mueller report came out he could've taken it upon himself to not say anything. let the country read the report and make up their own opinion. but no, he came out and forced the narrative, knowing the majority of americans do not have the time to read the report, let alone 400 pages. he gave with the people wanted and forced a narrative upon the american people instead of

stepping back and letting people choose what they want. the remainder of his tenure was nothing but him doing whatever trump wanted. when he saw that he could not continue because, you cannot lose the election and run the country, he decided to step down. host: nina, i think you are a joe biden supporter. caller: no, i am definitely dependent. host: who would make you feel comfortable in the role of attorney general in a biden administration? mayor: i would say mare merrick garland. host: merrick garland? caller: he was chosen because he was a moderate and i feel we need moderate down the line completely right now. host: that was nina in columbus. this is christine out of pennsylvania, line for democrats. go ahead. think wees, i just

have forgotten about the epstein being involved with all of these men. investigated and that goes down with the legacy of barr and trump. even any democrats that were involved. we cannot forget about all these people. carolina,in north democrat. you are next. caller: good morning. how are you doing? --comment is this [indiscernible] folks do not use common sense. they will follow somebody who is wealthy that cares nothing about them. that is what this discussion is about.

they like to keep them separated so they stay rich. we are all the same, we are all human. people calling and saying they love america. you cannot love america if you do not love the people in it. you said you love god, but god said to love your neighbor as you love yourself. your neighbor is the whole country and the world. how come they do not follow that? host: charles in rockville, maryland, democrat, you are next. caller: good morning. i am calling regarding the legacy of william barr. first, he lied to congress. he should be investigated. he was actually put on the job for the people, not for 1%. host: what are you concerned he lied about? before he came to be confirmed he lied to congress regarding his attitude toward

being equal. opinion was to be on one side only to be hired by the president, not for the people. second, i think you should be investigated and if he is found guilty, should be disparaged. he should not practice law because the doj's for the people, the country. that is the third balance in check and balance. thank you. host: robert in burnside, kentucky, independent. legacy schmegacy. this guy got in at the right time and is getting out of the right time. he does not care about legacy. what he cares about is that book. he is going to write a book that is going to sell more than any book in the country. i hope he spends his money on us. over and out.

host: are you interested if he does write a book and what he has to say? caller: well, it really does not matter what he is got to say. -- [laughs] who knows what is going to happen after this. i just hope joe can pull it out. host: have you ever bought one of those postservice political books? do they ever interest you? caller: no. i hear enough on tv. i've lived through it. i do not need to read about it again. i'm 75 years old. i've been around since ike and there is not been another president since ike as far as i'm concerned. host: our last caller. we will be back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 p.m. pacific. we want to take you to the senate subcommittee on the