professor david blight on the history of divisive presidential elections in the u.s. and parallels between this past election and the election of 1860 which led to the civil war. . ♪ good morning. it is december 16, 2020. president trump insisted it is too soon to give up. thatrepublicans recognize joe biden will be sworn in as president on january 20. joeh mcconnell recognized biden as president elect on monday. we will hear from her -- from republicans only. we are asking about future of

the gop. if you are a republican in the -- eastern orone, if you arees on, -- a republican in the eastern or call (202)e zones, 748-8000. if you are a republican in the mountain or pacific time zones, call (202) 748-8001. you can start calling in now. [video clip] morning ours country has a president elect and a vice president elect. many of us hope to the presidential election would herd a different result but government -- our government has processes to determine who will -- onrn in on december

january 20. electoral college has spoken. i would like to congratulate joe biden. he has devoted himself to public service for many years. i would also like to congratulate our colleague kamala harris. our nation can -- morning,was early this 12:40 a.m. eastern that president trump responded directly to those comments. he did so in a tweet. he retreated a story from daily comp allies slamming mcconnell for congratulating biden." too soondent said, " to give up.

the republican party must learn to fight. people are angry." we are asking far republicans only this morning on the washing and journal about the future of the gop. we split the phone lines regionally for republicans. this post election survey, story nearly 500art, of republicans about it future -- the future of the party. the want trump to stay leader of the gop. policies trump's should be continued as the main goals of the republican party. voters ision for gop a return to the globalist agenda bush and mitt

romney. less than one in six republicans want a return to the bush-romney days of the gop. of republicans want to see trump remain the voice of the gop. 15% were unsure on that point. echelonm breitbart, and survey -- an echelon survey. we are asking for your thoughts the- on the future of republican party. pat is first from dallas, texas. , john. good morning i am really disappointed in what happened in the election. think thatc. that --

biden is legitimate. the i do not like the way the mill in ballots went -- male in ballots-- the mail-in went. i hope trump continues to fight it. i'm not sure he is going to win. biden ran for president price and he couldn't -- twice and he couldn't win. ladon't like how far-left kama harris leans. as far as the future of the republican party, i feel they will hold the senate and probably take the house in 2022. thank you for letting me voice my comments.

out ofhis is richard chestnut hill, massachusetts. we are talking to republicans only this morning. i have been a lifelong republican. clear i am a new england republican, that is to say, i have always been at odds with conservative southern republicans on social issues. i voted for mitt romney and gary johnson. , and i am embarrassed to say this, i left it blank. i followed president-elect biden and senator and vice president -- i could not get myself to do that. the future of the party has been evolving. about outgoing mr.

trump. were a very big tent when i was a young man. i am concerned -- i am speaking to various elements of issues now. you look at democrats this past election having left former rustbelt union people because they do not see the democrats culturally where they are. republicans,e, the my party, will have to reckon with the fact that many of us have lost our republican worth eastern ices of social moderation -- voices of social moderation. go, who is ayou republican that could be on the that could get you not to leave that part of the ballot blank?

caller: my governor here in massachusetts, larry hogan in well, formerl governor of the commonwealth of massachusetts. host: steve out of north charleston in south carolina. you are next. john,: i will tell you, some republicans feel the future is kind of grim largely 5pendent on the january election in georgia, which will determine the ballots in the senate. as schumer has pointed out, if they take the senate, everything is on the table. they will try to initiate some kind of laws or action that will make it impossible for republicans to win.

what republicans have to hope for is do not allow yourself to get into give up mode. feel you are running against a wall and everyone is against you -- in south carolina, we will continue to be read. we will always -- to be red. i remember the days of to bow neal -- pip o'neill. everyone knows that who is my age. i'm 73. steve?hen did it change, you say you remember a time when it is different -- it was different. when did it change? caller: in the 2016 election during the campaigning of the

republicans. i did not vote for trump in did because 2020 i i did not like the shenanigans the democrats pulled on him from day one. i had to make a statement on my own for myself. i used to vote for a democrat that it was all about constituent service. a guard to aid me personally, lawrence thompson, and i voted for him ever since. i ended up working 42 years for the federal government because of that. lindsay.e for tim and there is a fear that something may come down the road that makes it impossible for republicans to win. host: steve mentioned those two runoffs happening in georgie --

georgia on january 5m the date -- january 5, the day before the electoral college vote is to be certified on january 6. you can of course watch that on c-span. before that happens on the floor, there is plenty happening this week on capitol hill, over ang negotiations new covid-19 release package. fran update on where that stands, we turn to zack owens -- n update on where that stands, we turn to zack owens. >> the big four congressional leaders as they are called, nancy pelosi, chuck schumer, kim

mccarthy, and mitch mcconnell met late into the night. trying to hash out some sort of agreement on another round of coronavirus relief. it will look different than what we saw in march. they are operating off a bipartisan framework. sort of breaking through the gridlock on additional coronavirus relief that has persisted since the summer. billions of dollars for vaccine distribution as that gets underway following the pfizer approval. the be a second hurrah for businesses that already received a ppp loan. increased benefits for those who are out of work right now, especially those out of work due

to, no fault of their own and there is a big push to include direct checks for $1200. that is something progressives in congress as well as republicans have been pushing. i love this is tied to the government -- all of this is tied to the government funding deadline on friday. is congressional leaders can tack on additional covid a to that funding bill that has to -- covid aid to that funding bill that has to pass by friday. into twohas been split parts, a larger $700 billion piece then a smaller $160 billion bill that includes state

and local help and liability protections. does it look like both things will make it through or whether that smaller package may get health back because that seems to be the more controversial one, correct? that areare the ones contentious items. in cannot find anyone congress who are opposed to them, other than some this goalie conservative republicans -- some fiscally conservative publicans. conservativelly republicans. other than some fiscally conservative republican s, this is not small potatoes.

small governments in the united states to pay the increased costs and pay for expenses given they were not bringing in revenue from taxes. the other factor is liability protections, something mcconnell has been pushing for the last couple of months, which prevent lawsuits against businesses, health care providers, universities, schools, you name it, which make it harder to sue if an employee or customer wants to sue because -- they believe they contracted covid. -- both bills have bipartisan support.

host: what are you watching for today? >> i will be waiting to see mcconnell, and, pelosi keep meeting. it is getting close to the end of the timeline when congress could pass something. the friday deadline is coming up quickly and it takes time for lawmakers and their staff to write these massive bills. to avert a going government shutdown on friday and pass some covid-19 relief all of that will have to be written as soon as today. i would like to see some of those details. the big disagreements are obviously in court, but the nitty-gritty details can throw a wrench into things. ist: a good twitter follow

zach_cohen. he is a writer for the national journal. back to your phone calls. we are talking to republicans only. phone numbers are split up regionally. (202) 748-8000 if you are a republican in the eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you are a republican in the pacific or mountain time zones. caller: regarding the future of administration, i will never accept as legitimate and neither will a lot of people like me. yesterday in a hotly contested senate race, biden showed up at a rally and could not track 50

people. not attract 50 people. it's a joke. we are going to win georgia walking away because they cannot cheat. the midterms after people watch two years of the train wreck that the biden administration will be, we will win a super majority in congress and we will impeach the biden administration and throughout the whole thing out. do know who showed us how to do that? nancy pelosi. everyone says you cannot prove voter fraud. pelosi, when it all you impeachment, need is votes. will neveray you

accept joe biden as a legitimate president. do you remember back in 2000 after the contested election in decision,bush v. gore do you remember democrats saying they would never accept bush as president? what did you think of that? caller: i remember four years of trump of the democrats never accepting him as president. i remember nancy pelosi remembering -- not accepting him as president. the democrats are ridiculous. they want what they want and if it isn't what they want they declare it as illegitimate. if that is the game they play, i will play that game back. for eating ach him ham sandwich, it does not matter. in california.on

you mentioned those senate runoff races in georgia. talking withbiden reporters in georgia about working with republicans in the senate during his time in office. [video clip] a great conversation with mitch mcconnell today. i called him to thank him for the congratulations. there are things we can work together on. we have always been straight with one another and we agreed we would get together sooner rather than later and i am looking together -- looking forward to working together. i spoke with a dozen colleagues. int: joe biden yesterday georgia. republican in

georgia. forer: i'm 78 and i voted '20.dent trump in '16 and host: what are your thoughts about the future of the party? caller: i think that party will go forward. party will go forward. trump is the best president we have ever had. he means what he says and he says what he means. man of action. i am very disappointed in the donkeys and their attitude. we all expected that. i cannot understand why all these states were read, but --

re red.we donald trump has done so much for this country and i will vote for him again. host: do you think he will run again, helen? caller: i hope so. next time hopefully they will be mail-in electronics, ballots, and they will change the rules. president trump said last night that it is too soon to give up on election 2020. saidrday kayleigh mcenany -- was asked about the electoral college results and where the president goes from here.

>> does the president acknowledge that joe biden is the president elect? >> the president is still involved in ongoing litigation. i will leave that to him and refer you to the campaign for more on that litigation. >> what was his reaction to leader mcconnell calling biden the president-elect? >> the president is pursuing ongoing litigation. beene votes have certified, the electoral college has voted. the campaign will have more specifics for you on legal recourse. mcenany, theh white house press briefing yesterday. this is the inside the beltway column by jennifer harper --she

points to a poll from mcglocklin and associates asking this question, " should president trump continue fighting to change washington?" of respondents overall said 82% ofluding -- conservatives. she notes the noteworthy approval on that question among men, whites, and those over 55, suburban residents, southerners and hispanics all approving of that question at over 50%. jennifer harper column appears every day in the washington times. back to the funds, republicans only. santa paula, california. this is john. caller: i have to say this whole election was an indictment on

america. we have nfl teams that cheat. we have world series that cheat. now we have elections that cheat. these mail-in ballots at went to people -- that went to people who normally do not vote, illegal aliens, dead people, no downe down ballot -- ballot voting, just votes for biden. host: what do you think the future of the party is? caller: ics going into a huge s going into i see u a huge recession, rioting. i am so appalled that this absentee universal voting -- they did not vote for biden.

they voted against trump. they genned up hate for trump. he is an easy guide to hate. to hate.y guy the black community voted as a block and that to me is ignorance. stevie in arizona. caller: i think this is far more serious than what has been articulated. in tech, fascist cabal media that refuses to report any bad news about democrats. we are probably going to have to be a lot more fervent. they may have to step up into do things they did not imagine

doing for to make their presence felt -- doing before to make their presence felt. they could not even get on twitter before their remarks were censored. that cannot be a fair election. that should be a failed election when you cannot articulate points. 2022,what happens in 2024? caller: trump is your speaker, not only politically. i think the republicans have an excellent future, if we are not lost in legislation. -- they? is day are you talking about a joe biden administration and democrats on capitol hill? caller: they can make sure we do

not win an election. they have to be more fervent, candid, more prepared to fight. that is what their electorate wants. host: is there anyone else besides president trump you see stepping up to lead the party in the years to come? rubio, ted cruz, marco what's her name -- haley? she is a star. it will have to be someone who is awfully fervent and willing to go out on a limb for the electorate because they are very angry. you have no idea. i spoke to a lot of republicans and they are smoking hot. comments byrted his talking about what the media is

refusing to cover. kayleigh mcenany brought up that topic yesterday in her final comments at that re-think. here -- that briefing. [video clip] that it unfortunate does not give much coverage in the mainstream media, but we should not be surprised. in the last 48 hours there have been a lot of stories that did not get much coverage in the media. last week we found out that democrat congressman eric swalwell was infiltrated by an alleged chinese spy. the spy raised funds for his 2014 campaign and planted an intern in his office into that relationship continued until the 2015.iefed him in

the new york times website as of this morning did not have one result for eric swalwell's ties to chinese spies. when the swalwell story broke, i how much coverage it got? zero. it was covered on fox. trusting pre-election and postelection coverage on the hunter biden -- interesting pre-election and postelection coverage on the hunter biden scandal. a october 15, you had to headline in the new york times that said " trump warned he was given russian disinformation on hunter biden." a few months later, -- months later, " the truth behind the hunter biden non-scandal."

now you have the headline that says " tax probe investigating chinese business deals." disinformation, dozens of intel officials say false yet again." " interest in hunter biden covered more than taxes." host: kayleigh mcenany yesterday at the white house press briefing. we are talking to republicans only about your view of the future of the gop. here are a few comments from our text messaging service. of the party is to keep the positive policies of trump. try real hard to

4ind a woman candidate for 202 win."rantee a carey says " we need to continue trump's policies by under someone who is less easy to hate." --n says treat bidenng to like the illegitimate president he is just like the democrats years."trump for four that is frank in california. caller: i'm feeling good about the republican party. i think trump got people here.

the democrats might say he is a carnival barker, but the truth of the matter is that is what it here --eaet people's r. what did bill clinton do? he got people's ear. he was not ronald reagan. trump is a lot harsher than that. he is trying to give people the reality of it. the way i look at it, let's see what biden into that administration does. people got a bite of the apple. if it was not for coronavirus, we probably are well would have pretty wellre -- would have trump in there. what did they find on him at

this point, something to actually get him out of office? host: you mentioned that trump got people's ear. one of trump's occasional critics, republican of illinois had this to say in a politico piece from earlier this month. " we have two directions to go as republicans, explain -- i am on the direction of let's get back to our roots and explain what conservatism is so we can actually win the generation we are going to need to stay relevant. can be theabout who loudest and kind of maintain power through raw anger and aggression. you are no different than a lot

of latin american countries." woner: few republicans have the popular vote. i think reagan was the last one that won the popular vote. there is a part of this country who are voting and they are hearing what is being said. maybe people the first time around didn't want hillary there. put trump'ot s yelling aside, you will never be able to -- popular vote the for reelection in 2004. caller: establishment republicans work in control more. host: do you think establishment republicans will be in control

come 2022 and 2024. caller: i don't think so. i think they will have to change to more of a people's party and less of an establishment party. trump grabbed the worker about. host: to that point, one other quote from a recent story on this topic about the future of the party, this is an interview by the hill with the new rfc rscrman, the republican -- chairman, the biggest caucus in congress, jim banks. he sees trumpism as something the party should continue to embrace, expressing confidence it will help republicans flip -- house in 2022

to win the going majority in 2022 and when the need aouse in 2024, we candidate more like donald trump than some of the republican candidates in the past." next caller, joan. from new jersey little while back said everything i had to say. it,only thing would add to theiden will not be six monthsor four to before harris takes over.

host: our next caller is from new york. should i think congress give up their salaries. the president about his salary being in office. as far as the democrats, democrats keep pushing republicansff and are just trying to fight them stuff like that. republicans are doing just as bad, hurting the people who really need the help now. on members oftion congress giving up their salary, doesn't that even the -- only the wealthiest people who could

get by without a salary would be the ones leading the country? cause --o, it wouldn't because there would be more honest people in the office. it would be more honest people in the office, serving the country. timothy in new york. bruce in alabama, you are next. caller: good morning, john. you areto call in when talking about the electoral college -- were talking about the electoral college. think this election was fraud in a way that i think the electoral college needs to be reformed. i think it should be one electoral vote per state. i think the popular vote does matter for your state. if you do not like the popular

vote in your state, do something about voting in your state and changing it or whatever, but one electoral college vote per state. if it had been that way, who would have one this election? have won this election? not joe biden. host: someone in california would say there are lot more people who live in california and live in alabama. why should each state only get one electoral vote? alabama matter't to california? argument from california would be why does one person matter? caller: it does matter in that

state, but it should be the first one to 26 electoral votes wins. if you look at the way it is right now, donald trump would have won this election i the landslide -- by a landslide. the: if there is a tie, election will go to congress. each state delegation gets one vote. the system you are talking about is part of the system, but only if there is a tie in the electoral college. caller: i say one electoral college per state. host: what is next for the electoral college after joe biden received 306 electoral votes, the electoral college verified on january

6. there could be some drama during this. aboutoks has talked raising an objection on the house floor to force debate when his objections with how the elections took place in some key swing states, including virgil and pennsylvania and wisconsin and others. for that debate that happened in the house in the senate, mo brooks would have to be joined .y a senate member there is some question about if a republican senator would join such a movement. mitch mcconnell warns against objections. mcconnell warned republican senators not to object to the election results when congress needs on january 6. without any senate members to go

along with the effort, it would fail. that objecting to forcesults would republicans to take a terrible vote. appear -- he urged his colleagues not to go down that road. that story in today's washington first reported yesterday and plenty of reports about what happened in that conference with republican senators carry his next out of ash with republican senators -- with republican senators. carey is next out of south carolina. caller: when you have a media that lies to push an agenda -- are you there?

host: yes. caller: when the media lies to push an agenda to get one side elected, you are just as guilty as cnn, c-span. you helped to push a russian conspiracy theory day after day. for the last year you helped push that trump was incompetent on his reactions. host: we are not pushing anything here. we are trying to create a forum for people to talk about it. caller: every day your topics come up with something about trump and a republican. host: we are hearing from republicans only in this hour. caller: there is not going to be a party if it is up to you because you do not want republicans. just like cnn, you have been lie.ally -- paid to

host: this program does not work unless republicans do not call in. it would get boring to people if only one party called in every day on this program. we want republicans to call in. we want to be a town hall for this country. i disagree with you, terry. hazelwood, missouri, you are next. caller: good morning. i had a comment. i am not a republican, not a democrat, not an independent. i am an american. if republicans continue down the aad they are going down, younger generation is going to come up and change the whole format of republicans and democrats. a republican senate or

republican congress can back up lies about certain elections, a russia hoax or certain things instead of talking about what the people need. we have homeless people on the streets. go to l.a., there are lines of timeess people and not one do they pass a meal to support the homeless, support the people who cannot pay their bills. they cannot even come to the table for the people of the united states. how -- if two people can talk about their differences and come to an agreement, i was wrong on some part and i was wrong on some part and come to an agreement, we were both wrong so let's make it right. host: el paso, texas.

republicans only in this hour. go ahead. caller: mission, texas actually. my family dates back to the revolutionary war. my great-great-grandfather, his name was moses. he fought with george washington calledith a guy whitehorse harry lee. cavalry. in the --te house harry lee whitehorse harry lee had a kid lee.d robert e. my great grandfather's name was -- my great-great-grandfather --my great grandfather fought

lee.robert e. he walked from norfolk, virginia to texas where we settled. my grandfather was in world war i. father -- host: that is quite a history of service, jack. caller: i think a lot of people have that, but they have not followed it. we were lucky that we followed it. i have documents on all of it. 1843, butd in 17 --ension started in

host: what are your thoughts on the future of the republican party? caller: none of these families who were injured or heard for this country, none of them suffered and were hurt for socialism. they did not fight for communism. they did not fight for progressivism. they fought for americanism. that is what americans are representing. -- those whoare are deeply embedded in america. centering. trump for us. we should all be thinking him for this warp speed and what he has done. i pray for the republican party.

one final thing -- [laughter] --the: one finall thing republican party is the party of abraham lincoln. those kids who died at appomattox and gettysburg were republicans and the kids fighting them were democrats keepblacks enslaved -- to blacks enslaved. i think c-span is great. in mission, texas. maureen.arine -- caller: i have a couple comments to my fellow republicans. fourave been listening for years that trump was an illegitimate president. now we have mitch mcconnell coming out and saying we have to

accept biden? i don't think so. hisone democrat would go to inauguration. maxine waters was yelling " impeach 45." there were several prominent democrats at his inauguration, including barack obama. caller: i'm talking about congressman. i don't think there were too many congressman who went. host: nancy pelosi went, chuck schumer went. some democrats said they would not go, but several prominent democrats were there. caller: but the majority did not i correct?ect -- am host: i don't inc. you are

correct -- think you are correct. caller: two wrongs do not make a right. trumpian.be more in.lse no one will get we have to be on the same page supporting a republican values and laws we want in their. there,ant in . democarats take bad. it will be welch,his is audrey in west virginia. caller: good morning. i think the republican party

will be stronger. people will see the democrats for what they are. they have encouraged riots, violence in our country, abortion up to the date of birth. this is wrong. pelosi, said, even that she held off on all her voting to help the people because she was waiting for another president. the democrats right now have overrun the congress. they have overrun everything else behind everyone's back. they are hiding everything. in the long run everyone will see them for what they are. host: new york city, good morning. the future of the republican party. caller: i think it is good, the

future of the republican party. the only one who lost on election night was trump. they gained in the house and i think they are going to take the senate because the democratic party nowadays, there leaving the democratic -- they are leaving the democratic party in droves. left-wing -- you are either a left-wing aggressive or you are not a democrat. i think it will get stronger in the future because people see that socialism and communism do not work. they went capitalism and americanism. was: the previous caller talking about democrats skipping the trump inauguration, the just from january of 2017, two or three days before the inauguration.

roll call took a look at that to keep track of who skipped out on the inauguration. before donald trump attacked john lewis on twitter, a handful of democrats had planned to boycott inauguration. by the end of the martin luther --g jr. holiday, early 70 nearly 70 democrats in the house said they would not attend. no democratic senators had announced their intent -- intention to boycott." carrie is next out of tucson, arizona. caller: this is my first time calling because i feel so strongly about this. i live in arizona. i have been a registered voter, republican party, since i was 16.

trump has changed me. the day before yesterday, i became a democrat. i am embarrassed by the state i was born in to have my attorney people and 126 congress to join that breed to go to the supreme court was absolutely embarrassing and outrageous. host: that is carrie in arizona. we are trying to hear from as many republicans, current publicans as possible. this is troy in pittsburgh. you are next. caller: it looks like we will be in good shape because biden has gone with the european climate change thing, which is going to i believe hurt the united states . he talked about taking out oil, 2.5oil, not knowing that

billion products on this planet are oil-based. i think the deal that he wants to do is not synonymous with the history of american industry, so hopefully we will win again in '24. we will see what happens on january 6, if one of the representatives stands up. host: that is troy in the keystone state. we will jump across the border to the buckeye state. this is wayne. wayne, are you with us? then we will go to james in lancaster, virginia. be,er: the question should

is this actually a trump party? i do not think republicans have a cold chance in hell without trump's support. toi was trump, i would go the southern white house and have a party down there. they showed president bush so much disrespect when he went to president obama's inauguration, why would trump with the hate out there put him, his wife and his family in a situation like that? you wouldn't. i wouldn't. you think they will teach him nicely -- treat him nicely that day? i don't think so. host: do think it is important for the peaceful transition of power, one of the hallmarks of our country, him showing up that day is important for that? poll thatey had a

came out a couple days ago -- 30% of democrats believe this was a fraudulent election. host: which poll was that? caller: i do not have it in front of me. i was surprised. ofn if it is just 10% democrats who thought it was fraud. i'm sorry, i missed the election that night. i was working. mathematically the things that were taking place after hours not make sense. host: go ahead and finish your comment, james. caller: that's all it is. host: the last color in this first segment of the washington journal, we will -- caller in this first segment of the washington journal. we will be joined by dr. uche blackstock.

about efforts to build public confidence in vaccines. lackstock is the ceo of advancing health equity. stick around. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] podcast, to c-span's the weekly, zack smith joins us to discuss the race in i was a second congressional district, called for miller meeks by six votes. the contest will be decided by the house of representatives. find the weekly where you get your podcasts. with coronavirus cases increasing across the country, use our website,

c-span.org/coronavirus to follow the trends, track the spread with interactive maps, and watch updates on demand, any time, at c-span.org/coronavirus. journal continues. host: head of another meeting tomorrow for emergency use authorization for another covid-19 vaccine. we are joined by dr. uche blackstock. meeting with the fda and their approval for emergency use authorization. after pfizer's approval last week, is there any doubt in your mind that the moderna vaccine won't get an emergency use authorization as well? guest: there's absolutely no doubt. i think we will see on friday

the maturing of vaccine being granted emergency use authorization. ,he vaccines are very similar the pfizer vaccine has very similar efficacy and safety profiles. when you break down the clinical participants, they work pretty similar by age, gender, and race in both studies. the trial results were incredibly reassuring for myself, as a physician, to know that we are going to have two safe and effective vaccines and we can start disturbing to the american public. days into the first shots going into the arms of americans with the pfizer vaccine. are there any warning signs for you at this point in terms of the distribution effort? the ability to get these out fast enough and correctly? guest: i will say i do have several concerns. we already know that we don't

have enough vaccines, initially. hopefully in a few months, by the end of q2 we should have enough vaccines are 150 million people. johnson & johnson have not had their vaccine approved yet after especially issues, with elderly patients. we need to find out what happens with the other vaccines. now we will have two out there on the market. thee are concerns about distribution strategy of targeting hospitals and pharmacies, more so large chain pharmacies and thinking about who has access to those hospitals and pharmacies and there areg that pharmacy deserts in some locations were people don't have a large chain pharmacy near them. but we also have to think about

do small and have the storage or the vaccine storage necessary for these two vaccines which require very cold temperatures. you have to train health care workers to be able to administer the vaccines and we need i.t. infrastructure in place to track who is receiving the vaccine. it's a very involved process. we know that state and local health departments have said that they don't have enough funding to do this properly. time: it might be a good to explain what advancing health equity is, the group you helped found. guest: it's an organization i founded about two years ago as a point of the organization, it was really to partner with health care and related organizations to address bias and racism in health care so we can advance health equity. health equity is essentially the ability for every person to achieve their highest health potential.

what we do know is that there are factors called the social determinants of health, job, housing, education, access to health care, which influence an individual and community's health status. i work with organizations to ensure that they are maximizing their capacity when it comes to health equity so that each patient can receive an equitable allocation of care. dr. uche lacked stock, we are taking your calls as we talk , we areche blackstock taking your calls, if you're in the eastern or regional portion of the nine states it's (202) 748-8000. if you're in the mountain or pacific region it's (202) 748-8001. as folks are calling in, getting shots into arms, those vaccines going out and being distributed requires people to lineup and be

willing to take them. what's your pitch to people who or even concerned, though seniors in the early distribution categories who want to take a more wait and see approach and let others take the vaccine before they decide. guest: we are seeing a lot of those out there which is understandable. i think for most of the american public it looks like this vaccine was rushed. typically a vaccine takes about 10 years to be developed. and this was developed in 10 months. that's a historical record. and i think it's important when i speak to my own patients, i talked to them about the transparency in the process. i explained the different phases of the trial and that in this situation this was done so quickly because there was collaboration between private

and public entities and funding available. billions of dollars of the federal government invested into the vaccine development process. and instead of the steps being consecutive they were able to be done in parallel because the funding was available for that. and i tell them the technology, especially the technology that the pfizer and mentor not vaccines that are being used is vaccine, thisa has been in study for decades. researchers and career scientists have been studying this technology for decades. this follows rigorous standards and they have enrolled tens of thousands of patients. i try to go over all of these details because i think people have concerns about how quickly it was developed. concerns about political interference in the work of the

fda and cdc. but i try to reassure them that the vaccine manufacturers have really tried to do what is best for the patients. and when we weigh the risk and benefits of taking these vaccines versus being infected with coronavirus, we have a better chance of survival by taking the vaccine. i tell them, for myself, my loved ones, i would take the vaccine. host: we talked about this couple of times with this tagline with usa today, there's skepticism in black and latino communities about vaccines but women of color can help swing the momentum, that's the story yesterday. your thoughts on that? momenti do think in this there is opportunity for health care professionals, black professionals like myself,

latino physicians and nurses and other public health experts to really get out there and try to connect in our communities. there is really this opportunity because we know patients are more likely to trust their physicians and other health care professionals as trusted sources of information. we already have that connection with them. the messaging is going to be important and the transparency, making sure it's culturally responsive, but it also matters to the messaging comes from. fauci is excellent at what he does and is a trusted individual but he may not connect with people in my community or latino communities. barbers, people known well and trusted in these communities to really engage with community members around these concerns. one thing that i say is that it's really not my job for someone to take the vaccine.

but we need to make sure that we provide the information that people need to make an informed choice. that's what we should be focusing our resources and efforts on. with some ofeak our callers. out of cuyahoga falls, ohio. and i'mi'm a vegan upset about the ingredients of cows, sheep, chickens, eggs, in vaccines. as are many people who are vegans and vegetarians, orthodox and i, as a vegan, nobody consume a vaccine company if we sustained serious injury or are killed by vaccines. they have liability protection. therefore you and i and taxpayers pay for the damages

done, whether it's an electric , or otherl's palsy aspects of vaccines. host: let's let you jump in on concerns of vaccine ingredients. there is transparency. we can find out what vaccine ingredients are involved in the process. i'm not sure about the covid vaccine. the flu vaccine, people do have allergies and we recommend that they don't take the flu vaccine. i appreciate the point about thinking about if there are people who are vegan, we need to make sure there are options for with theirlign values and priorities. these vaccines have to be developed quickly and because there was urgency we had over 300,000 people who have died

from this virus. as predicted by january about 400,000. while i do understand the concerns, we have to think about the greater good. the other issue i want to bring anaphylaxis.ea of that's a severe allergic reaction and it's quite rare with vaccines. both the mentor and a and pfizer thousands the tens of of people that were enrolled, nobody had a severe allergic reaction. when the vaccine was rolled out in the u.k. there were two health-care workers who had allergic type reactions. we don't know if they were the vaccine. severehad had a previous allergic reaction to a vaccine in the past, probably, right

now, you should not take the covid vaccine and i did want to ,ention about bell's palsy paralysis of one side of the trials byoted in both very small numbers of people. and when they look at the backgrounds they found that there is not necessarily a correlation between the vaccine and bell's palsy. all that is to say is that a lot of what we have on vaccines in general and especially these two vaccines showed great promise and are reassuring. host: and we might also point the viewer to a usa today story from yesterday, taking a look at the ingredients, particularly of the pfizer vaccine. they listed the ingredients of that vaccine in a letter to the fda. basically four categories, the active ,ngredients, the messenger rna

fats, lipids, salts and sugar. but the viewer can take a look at the story. i believe it was yesterday. i think it is so important that the information was put out, the more information put out by vaccine manufacturers about the vaccine, the more it will reassure the public. and it will engender vaccine trust as a result. host: gary, and sterling, virginia. caller: thank you for taking my call. , you're talking about equity and health care, that's like universal health care is what you're saying. father had 23 notches on his socialist.re

he hated socialism. deed, he after that told me we should have a medical finland,ke canada or one of the nordic countries. that's how he felt about universal health care. host: doctor, how do you feel about universal health care. guest: i will be transparent. there should be single-payer universal health care. when we look at the health outcomes in this country, especially among industrialized countries, the united states is dead last in terms of mortality rates. in terms of administrative costs of providing health care. in terms of equity in health care. we also have some of the worst outcomes for cancer and heart

disease. in a country with so many resources it does not make much sense. we know one factor that is that lack of access to health care. that's tied to someone's insurance status. one thing we have seen in this pandemic is that there's been significant job loss and rates of unemployment. as a result of that, especially in states that did not have medicaid expansion, we have seen a significant number of people lose their employer-sponsored health insurance. the thought of that happening during the pandemic is really unconscionable. i think one of the reasons why we are seeing so many people die is because we don't have a cornet health care system. we have a health-care system that's tied to employment. strongndemic is a argument for single-payer universal health care.

in wilmington, north carolina, alexis. good morning. caller: good morning. i'm so excited to see dr. blackstock on tv. i am in the pfizer study for the vaccine. covid saved my life. i took the two shots, the second i did have some symptoms and i was checking in on my digital diary every week and i started to feel fatigued. at first i said your 72 and you have not gone to the senior center for gerifit, your week. i set i will work around it and i will do what i can do. but i got to the point where i could not walk from the parking lot to walmart without sitting

on one of the scooters because i was so worn out. it occurred to me that this might be some sort of residual symptom from the covid study. youlled and the nurse said need to see a cardiologist and get a stress test. i did. she said let's get an and for giggles let's get blood. she called me three hours later and said you need to check into the er. your hemoglobin is six, it's supposed to be about 12 and you when it to pack a bag so checked in i got a bag and a smallf blood, i had a .leed cauterized

but i would not have known. i did not see any signs of this thisf and it was not until was caught. i go back to have a stress test i haveechocardiogram and severe aortic stenosis. my brother dropped dead on a tennis court 35 years ago from stenosis. host: and you would not have known any of this if you are not volunteer for that study? guest: no. -- caller: no, i know pain. host: that's an amazing story. dr. blackstock, do you want to jump in? guest: that's amazing. and i think that speaks to -- i don't think people realize, when they are enrolled in clinical trials, because of the check and you do, you record the symptoms

you are having and often people receive even better care and observations than they would have if they were not enrolled in the clinical trial. that the callers ,roviding is i think perfect when you are enrolled in a clinical trial you receive great care because your symptoms are monitored. they want to make sure that if you are having symptoms, whether or not it's related to taking the vaccine. andglad she's doing well these other issues that were uncovered are being addressed. our next guest out of maryland, good morning. you are on. doctor i heard the mention health care system for the one thing she left out was

nonprofit. universal single-payer nonprofit systems that we should have here. the problem with our health care system is that young people profiting off of people being ill. i don't think you should profit off of people getting ill. apologize,ree, and i the nonprofit could have been inferred but it should be federally sponsored health insurance. , i personally don't think profit should be tied to health outcomes or health status and i think that's one of the problems with why we are seeing the poor health outcomes that we have in this country. health care should be accessible to anyone. health is a human right. i do agree with the caller. host: here in d.c., this is brian. caller: i have two questions i

want to ask and maybe the doctor can explain why she feels that is acceptable after being tested for only three months. -- and why manipulate or modify the genetic makeup of people as opposed to taking a pill or something else. way,re we using that as a going into people's genes and modifying their genes to handle this. one other question, why are we seeing people like yourself, i'm a black man, promoting black people, which only meant 10% of the population.

whereas white people are 70% of the population and if they get it, they get the vaccine, we should have heard immunity. can you answer those two questions? guest: could you remind me of the first question mark -- first? host: start on the second. guest: the work that i do is health equity. the work that i doing now, in terms of speaking publicly about the coronavirus vaccine, i do it for black americans, given the history of this country, that we have a track record where because of systemic racism it has created inequities where black men have the shortest life expectancy. black pregnant people are three to four times likely to die around pregnancy. black babies have the highest infant mortality rate.

there's nothing genetic about that. that's the result of social and economic policies that have disadvantaged black americans. the work i do, in terms of outreach about the vaccine is because i see firsthand in terms of the patients i have taken care of and i care for, we were based in new york city. the epicenter of the pandemic in the spring. the amount of human suffering i saw mostly in black and brown patients, i don't want to see that again. obviously we don't have a coherent national strategy in terms of public health measures. and that will not unfortunately end the virus. we now have to rely on a vaccine. the vaccine is really our only way out of this nightmare. i, myself and my colleagues,

other black physicians and health care professionals, we see the uphill battle. i have family members that don't want to take the vaccine. i have loved ones that don't want to take the vaccine. i'm not trying to convince people to take the vaccine, but i want to make sure people have accurate information about the vaccine so they can make an informed decision. foromething the caller said example, there's nothing going inside the cells of anyone or altering the genes. that's not accurate. ,ssentially what the vaccine is especially the pfizer and mentor vaccine,-- moderna mrna technology is injected into the body and tells cells to create the spike protein on the outside of the virus. the body does that and the messenger rna disagree -- disintegrates and the body

produces antibodies to those spike proteins. so if there's ever a situation where you are infected with the virus, your body will recognize this and you will have the immune cells to protect yourself. , fort people to understand the percentage of people who do not get vaccinated, it will prolong the pandemic. 70% is what we need for heard immunity. we need as many people on board as possible. so when i see my role, especially in communicating with black people in this country, it's to say i understand your concerns. i'm happy to answer any questions you have in a nonjudgmental way and you should speak your own health care providers about your concerns as well. but that's why i do this work. that's why i'm on here today speaking about the vaccine. host: and you took care of both

questions and that answer. before we leave the topic of racial distrust of the vaccine, i want to show a clip of dr. jerome adams speaking about this topic earlier and how it should be addressed. this is what he had to say. >> vaccines are -- [video clip] >> vaccines are one of our greatest social injustices in this country. ensuring that all americans have an equitable opportunity to receive the vaccine and promoting vaccine competence and equitable uptake will be critical if we want to save lives and ensure the protection of all americans against .ovid-19 and end the pandemic we know that lack of trust is a major cause of reluctance per especially in communities of color. that lack of trust is not without good reason. the testee studies -- the testee -- tuskegee studies occurred within many of our lifetimes.

we must first acknowledge this real history of mistreatment and exportation of minorities by the medical community and the government. and we need to explain and demonstrate all that has been done to address these wrongs. the protections and safeguards in place like the hhs office of human research protection and independent review boards and data and safety monitoring boards to make sure tragedies like the tuskegee syphilis study's or the exultation of henrietta lacks never happens again. host: that was the surgeon general earlier this week. dr. blackstock? guest: i am in full agreement with dr. adams. we have a challenge in front of us. a history of medical experimentation and abuse of black americans in this country and also ongoing discrimination against black patients and health care settings and then we have unprecedented levels of

political interference in the fda and cdc's works. all of those factors have led to distrust. that's just and valid. i understand. this is why think it's up to vaccine manufacturers, the department of public health, state and local, to be as transparent as possible in terms of the messaging. to answer everyone's questions. to engage with community leaders like barbers and pastors. -- i think asople people see other groups receive the vaccine, i think it's often a wait and see approach but i we see adverse -- watch for adverse side effects that could help build trust. m something the caller commented

on, that we don't have any long-term data. a lot of vaccines once approved don't necessarily have years of long-term data. the process usually takes a very long time because the stages are done consecutively. as opposed to this time, in parallel. we have two months of data on tens of thousands of people. people with significant experience in vaccine development and the approval process has approved at least one of these vaccines. based on that, i will say that i feel confident about taking the vaccine. host: to jackie, out of long beach, california. caller: i have a question. californiaong beach, and there are a lot of aids patients here. [indiscernible]

host: could you ask the question again? guest: it's -- is it safe to take vaccinations for those with hiv? caller: [indiscernible] host: gotcha. did you get that? guest: i did. i will say that i am not an infectious disease specialist. but we know that coronavirus in patients with hiv, depending upon their status, has really detrimental effects. we encourage people with hiv to talk to their physicians about taking the vaccine. this is a conversation between a patient and their health care provider. i cannot necessarily give recommendations about whether someone with hiv should take the vaccine but it looks like there is reassuring evidence that that is the case. host: romney, from silver

spring, maryland. caller: good morning. comments.make a few minority,lking about brown and black populations, but i think it's white brown and white. we need to do the training where the average person understands the language. listening, it's not just you, but reference is made to trials and things. people don't understand that. when you don't understand something you will be afraid. be a way to break down the vaccine and talk about , and mayben's terms

people would be more comfortable with taking. -- with taking it. how someoneat look back atake a voting, somebody said there was fraud and they believed it. even when shown that there wasn't people still believed it. i think because a lot of people in this country get their news from television, we have to give them information that they can understand. host: we have your point. guest: it's such an important point and thank you for reminding us, it's important that any messaging around vaccines be done in a way that everyone, regardless of their , thational level, culture they can understand and have answers to their questions. this is definitely a challenge that many department of public health are up to speed.

there are experts in health literacy, people who study that. we need their expertise in developing commercials and social media ads, questions and answers pages on websites, to help really respond to the questions that people have about this vaccine. even as a physician, i had to do tons of reading to make sure i understand these concepts. case fory imagine the someone who does not have a medical background. i understand that's a challenge. cleare key is going to be and transparent messaging to the public in order to increase vaccine uptake. david is next, from pennsylvania. caller: good morning dr. blackstock. patient,ge iv cancer metastatic, i was diagnosed quite late.

initially i was on standard chemotherapy and immunotherapy. one of the drugs that they gave was very recently at the time approved by the fda. luckily i have decent health the cost ofce, but for everywas $60,000 injection and infusion. got 12lucky, i think i cycles of that every three weeks. so hopefully, the vaccine, which i can imagine initially is very expensive to produce, that we are knocking to be charged for it, or the infusion, or anything. but because i'm a cancer patient

, like they are saying that they are going to be giving the vaccine to people with health around, the next go when they have enough vaccine. but somebody with a compromised , is a vaccine safety taste -- to take when you're already down? i just finished a clinical study that i could not tolerate the drug at all. i was selected for arm and, which was standard of care -- was tender care, as opposed to the experimental drug. i could not tolerate even the standard of care. so now i'm looking for another clinical trial but my mean systems compromised. let's let the doctor jump

in. guest: thank you for sharing your story. in both trials, those with immunocompromised systems were not enrolled in the trial. so if you do have a depressed immune system, you definitely need to speak to your oncologist about whether you are a candidate for taking the vaccine. at this point, it's not clear that you are. especially if you have an immunosuppressive system. the other thing i want to mention, the government has purchased these vaccines from the vaccine manufacturers. they will be free to everyone who receives them. that was an incredibly important step and hopefully we will see more of that in the future.

host: we have time for a one or two more phone calls. question abouta health equity. i wanted to know what the doctors doing regarding training of doctors. there are studies that show that white doctors believe that black patients have a higher tolerance , and dermatology textbooks only show skin conditions with white patients, therefore doctors may have assessing skin conditions in darker hued patients. that's my question. .uest: thank you for asking that's actually the reasons why started my organization. i do a lot of work with implicit andound

explicit biases, making people more aware of their biases and discussing the mitigation of biases. we talk about the role of racism in health care and how it has influenced the way clinicians care for patients. so even though studies that you have mentioned, we have studies that show that physicians are less likely to get pain medication to black patients. even pediatric patients. given everything that's been going on in the country, the pandemic that has exposed these racial health inequities with the killings of black americans by police and civilian vigilantes, we are having more conversations and i think these conversations need to happen even before medical school. people need to be aware of the history. aware of the trends we see now and how black patients are cared for and we need to talk about strategies and ways to eradicate

those. we see what's called provider bias, which is one of the many factors in health inequities that we see. that's a significant amount of time and effort in my organization in partnering with health care organizations. thank you for asking. you for having this conversation with us, dr. founder oftock, the her organization, and a medical contributor for yahoo! news. you can follow her on twitter. we appreciate your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: up next, time here for some open phones to get your thoughts on your top public policy issue. the phone lines are for you to call in. those numbers are on your screen. give us a call and let us know what's on your mind this wednesday morning.

♪ the food and drug administration has an open session to prove modernity vaccine for covid-19. live coverage thursday at 9:00 eastern on c-span3. stream live and on-demand on c-span.org or listen on the free c-span radio app. use your mobile devices and go to c-span.org for video, live and on-demand, to follow the transition of power. president trump, president-elect biden, news conferences and event coverage at c-span.org. washington journal continues. 20 to getave about your thoughts on your top public policy issue this wednesday morning. for democrats (202) 748-8000. for republicans (202) 748-8001.

for independents (202) 748-8002. as soon as you start calling and we will turn the phone lines over to you. but we did want to note a little news this morning. it could be big news and something we have been watching for the past couple of weeks and months here on capitol hill. this story from jake sherman and burgess everett coming out. congressional negotiators are on the brink of a coronavirus rescue package which would include a second round of direct payments but would likely leave out state and local funding and liability shield, according to multiple sources involved and briefed on those talks. the price tag of the emerging deal is nearly $900 million and it could be finalized as early as this morning. the direct checks will likely be far less than the $1200 per person that came out in march in order to keep the cost of the bill in check. president trump has been keen on sending out checks to americans

and he has had backing on that topic from senator bernie sanders and josh hawley. and the extending of unemployment benefits would also be part of that package. we are watching to see an official announcement. time for your top public policy issues, a bit of open phones for you to bring up the topics that you want to talk about. this is chris, in louisville, kentucky, a democrat. caller: good morning. say is that i'm totally confused at how the people supporting donald trump are supporting donald trump. and the policy issues that i find galling is with all of the people who need food, medicine, and all of that, that primarily in my home state, actually he

went to my high school, mitch mcconnell, people don't realize how many things he's holding up and stopping from happening and i find that so galling. i hope you will allow me a minute to say the thing that i don't get that's calling me about this country, i'm 69 years ii, when theywar saw the things that the germans did under hitler's how appalling it was. parallels so many between the person was the president now and how people support him so blindly. i find it so amazing that people can support the things that he thing is if you want to know what's going on with him, listen to what he says about the opposition. that's what he's doing. oft: this is frank, out tulsa, oklahoma, and independent.

caller: i would like to know when president trump is gonna pull the trigger on that executive order from 2018 concerning foreign interference in our elections. i think it's time. this election was stolen. everyone knows it and something needs to be done. he has 45 days from the finish of the elections to pull the trigger on that executive order. host: what he think about mitch mcconnell congratulating president-elect joe biden? i'm not going to foreclose on mitch mcconnell just yet.

sometimes there's reasons for what he does that are unexplained until after. but i did not like it. host: that's frank, in tulsa, oklahoma. president trump did not like it either, if you read his tweet from late last night. at 12:40 very early this morning. slam mitchs mcconnell for congratulating biden, linking to a daily mail piece on that topic. 75 million votes, a record for a sitting president, too soon must -- too soon to give up. the republican party must learn to fight. people are angry. this is the president when he five minutes ago -- 25 minutes ago. saying i can't believe how badly fox news is doing in the ratings. they played right into the hands of radical left democrats and are floating in limbo land, hiring donna brazil and allowing uneditedegative and

commercials. fox news is dead declared the president, sad. joe is next out of yonkers, new york. caller: good morning. i think jobs is still a key issue. when trump was running he said the unemployment rate is not real. thatrrectly pointed out other people are left out of the labor force and once he is in he takest's down 2% so credit for but we should look at the challenges in getting a job and keeping a job. warren buffett, i wish you would he makeson your show, important points about people who are left behind in the labor -- labor force. he calls them roadkill. i'm not retraining a 55-year-old to be a computer programmer. it's not happening. i think he has it right.

getting akey issue is diversity of opinions. i learned a lot and reflected on it and i began to study additional opinions to critical race theory. i'm surprised you don't have glenn rawlins, he's been speaking on this forever and he has some interesting things to say. and on the other end of the opinion, there's a woman who a she's a princeton university african-american professor who says it's all about labor. it's not about race. i would like the whole spectrum and c-span does a better job than others. i guess the last issue is just that the media fortifies everyone. i'm an independent, but i cannot

stand having cnn on at airports because it's not neutral. that's my opinion. thank you. belle, from new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. i hope you don't cut me off. but my biggest public policy issue is china, china, china. anything weearing are not hearing anything about how the chinese have been infiltrating, purchasing different ports, dominating the cotton market, we are getting in terms of chinese influence on our political figures. the chinese are very smart and patient. they have been driving their influence across the world with two basic principles.

divide and conquer, and greed is good. these are the two principles that have been driving china's influence on the global marketplace and in other countries. host: did you get a chance to watch the program yesterday? caller: i'm sorry, i didn't. host: i'm sorry didn't does well. you may want to go back and watch it. we had a national security reporter from the washington times who's been covering china from a long time and he wrote the book deceiving the sky, inside china's drive for global common is the premise ep we spoke about all these issues for 45 minutes or an hour yesterday. you could find that on our , gertz,at c-span.org you can watch that. and next out of kokomo, indiana. good morning. about twowant to talk

policy issues. the unemployed people who do not receive unemployment, they don't get any of the covid checks. the only check i got was a $1200 -- in marchn mark's and i was laid off in october 2019. i'm not the only unemployed person who ran out of unemployment and we don't get included in any of these relief packages except the direct one. in the second issue is my dad is turning 101, he is a world war ii vet who has been shot down 35 -- three times in 35 missions. -- they threatened to move him into the covid hospital ward . he's no longer in assisted living, he needs assistance in

and out of his wheelchair and is on oxygen 20 47 but he's not in the first group because he's not in an assisted living facility but he is qualified to be part of the first group and we don't know who to contact. those are my issues. host: thank you for sharing your story. richard, in louisville, kentucky, republican, go ahead. ironic thatnd it you want to put yourself up yesterday about having a gentleman on for communist china but she said nothing about the biden crime family and their ties to china before the election. but you're part of the mainstream media now and i'm so impressed with you and the rest of the media and how you downplayed everything. you kept true information from millions and millions of americans. so how close are we to a civil war?

that man on cnn the other day talking about how stephen miller is pushing for armed insurrection. i don't think it should come to that but i tell you what. i understand. and c-spanlike you and washington journal, you are all a part of it. host: so who do you trust? we lost richard. ken, in north carolina, republican. caller: i want to say that i agree with the previous color. -- call and i want toe tell the caller from kentuckyr. why i voted for trump. we had the largest look unemployment, the largest gdp , criminal reform, and the greatest thing he did was the number of deaths we have in afghanistan are down to

practically nothing. he's done an amazing job as president. giving money to black colleges, everything he did, he did for the benefit of americans. he was truly a president for the people. i appreciate you letting me have my opinion. host: where does the republican party from here? i'm pretty disenfranchised with the whole country prayed the last two votes i made in north carolina, i voted for voter id, our governor, and democrat, vetoed it. and this last election -- it's disheartening. ken, in north carolina. harvey, in south carolina, a

democrat. caller: good morning. i'm hoping this country will begin to start coming together. we live in a partisan nation where there are people who are democrats and republicans and independents, but we have common .nemies abroad i've been involved in the government and education and broadcast media from my life. at the top of the level. and as an observer now with what's going on. it is so desperately important that we as a country, black, white, asian, latino, come together and begin to recognize what's important and put these other divisions behind us. particularly those individuals in government who would use us as tools to divide us. it's time to stop that. what country in the world

represents the biggest national security threat to the u.s.? and when was the last time we worked together as a country? caller: you talked about china yesterday. china has made major inroads in america not just here but also throughout the caribbean and the latin world. they are buying up islands and nation. and they have a very large population of people. and they are making inroads around the world. i believe that is one of the greatest threats to our national security. we need to be mindful of that. and there are individuals in the country who recognize this and can give us something to coalesce around and recognize that we have a common interest to at least advance our own national causes. host: when was last time we were unified? caller: world war ii. my era and my dad sarah, world

war ii. and some portion of korea. the 1960's things were moving forward and we were making great advances, particularly in cities and elsewhere. and we have been unified as a country on a variety of different issues. but it seems there are some separators, either individuals or groups that have come along. and it could be international meddling. other countries. manchurian candidate kinds of individuals that have been imposed in our government to begin to start making things change. including the media, unfortunately. , out ofis is lucille l.a., a democrat. good morning. soler: i feel that it is discouraging to hear some of the people blame the media for everything. there something in the media for

everyone. you don't kill the messenger. they only present what they know . what has been delivered to them. and we cannot ignore the history of mitch mcconnell, he does what the people allow him to do. biases, a lot having to do with racism, the 13th amendment was not ratified 1976.tucky until he was a judge during that time. there are some of different things. there was dr. blackstock who is talking about how there is discrimination in medical care to black people. they don't feel that blacks have the same amount of pain as whites. we need serious education we need to accept things from other people because if it's true it's

true. i accept some good things from trump and i truly don't like him as a president, but i can find some good things about him. host: for example? caller: he's a family man. i don't think he holds up to any commitments and i think he is an opportunist, but some of those things have helped us. so there is something for everybody. you just don't shoot the messenger. you get busy and investigate. if you want to hear opposition, go to the stations where there is opposition. but most of all, work in your communities. thank you. sarah, in north carolina, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning. my question is, i'm wondering

wants to change washington, d.c.? host: what do you mean by that? caller: i can't fabricate in my mind why they would want to do that. it is our national... it is our nation's white house. host: the argument right now is don'teople in this city have a representative in congress or the senate who can vote on the house floor where the senate forum and the logo c. saysense plates in d. taxation without representation, so that is the concern of people in the state. they do get a vote for

president, they get three votes in the electoral college. are you still with us, sarah? caller: i'm with you, i'm listening. host: what do you make of those arguments? caller: i'm not sure. i just don't understand a lot of this. i mean, that's my capital. it has always been washington, d.c. the: this is alex in bluegrass state, lexington, republican. good morning. caller: i just want to say god bless the usa. congratulations joe biden on getting elected. we elected somebody was going to march us right back into the middle east, who is going to bring back the old obama politics, and add more to the debt. meanwhile back at the ranch, the news in this country, i wasn't born in this country, i was born in asia. i called in during the

coronavirus whenever that cdc guidance was in, and i told the whole channel of c-span that the virus is over everywhere else, that people aren't doing what it takes to keep the numbers low. the media isn't real, the matrix is real. host: columbia, maryland, independent. i haven't called in for a long time. daughter about a year ago. host: i'm so sorry to hear that, alicia. caller: i thank you for your sympathy. some i just want to thank people who are in the government and who have been in the government. i want to say good job to hogan.r of maryland,

host: larry hogan. caller: he has done a very good job. udall hate to go have tom go from new mexico, he has done a good job and the senator for i don't know how many years. luhan in newto mexico, the representative. mexico,governor of new michelle grisham. they have all done wonderful. fauci, thank you for going out to the navajo reservation and checking things out. i understand we've got some vaccines out there. we have really been hard-hit down there. much, andnk you very keep praying for us.

president,ou for our who has gotten the vaccine for us and who has fought for that giving usand he is freebies, we should all be happy. smiles today. host: our last caller in this segment of the washington journal. but stick around, another hour to go here this morning. up next we will be joined by dale university professor david blake to discuss the history of divisive presidential elections in this country. stick around, we will be right back. ♪ announcer: book tv on c-span 2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up, doctors paul farmer

.nd daniel alanis sunday at 1:00 p.m. is. eastern with journalist nicholas griffin. then a discussion on the book congress overwhelmed. at 9:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, 2 watch book tv on c-span this weekend. washington journal continues. torical perspective on divisive presidential election, we are joined by david, a history professor at yale university. on anday, joe biden called

divided country to turn the page on election 2020 and to unite. toe us back 160 years america's most divisive presidential election. what parallels can we draw from today to november or december of 1860? caller: hopefully not too many because it didn't end well, but there are parallels. the 1860 election is arguably the most divisive in our history secession resulted in of seven states of the deep south in direct response to the election of abraham lincoln. divisive in its conception as an election. it was a four-way presidential contest. there were two parties in the spring of 1860, republicans and democrats, but the democrats split. very divisive convention in charleston, south carolina. , southern andtwo

northern. southern fiercely determined to protect slavery in the western territories. the republican party was new, it was only six years old. but it was a largely, almost entirely northern political party. it stood for stopping the expansion of slavery. it with the central tenet of their platform, stopping the expansion of slavery by law and in their view, by constitutional authority in the american future. it was an election were on the ballot were many things. a slaveabor society, labor society envisioned by the democrats and southerners. but people understood in this election that potentially,

because of all the threats of disunion that had been around for years, the very existence of the republic was on the ballot. the first candidate came into the picture when it became clear the democrats had divided, which almost seal their fate, and that lincoln and the republicans south,and loathed in the not even on the ballot in 10 southern states. that shows you have divided this was. a fourth party came into existence literally overnight. they call themselves the constitutional union party. they ran a man named john bell from kentucky. their sole purpose was to do whatever it took to try to garner votes, especially in the border state regions, to save the union. you had a four-way election. lincoln is a republican, john breckenridge is a southern democrat who would eventually

become vice president of the united states. and stephen douglas, the northern democrat who have been running for president half of his life, would actually get the second most votes in this election. and then john bell. it was a four-way election and lincoln, as people know, was elected, but with barely 40% of the popular vote. dayade him a president from one. within about five weeks, six weeks of the presidential 20, southn december carolina seceded from the union. they would hang out down on their own for a while until january, january, and then the end of february when six other slave states of the deep south joined them. all by different processes. some by state-level convention, some by referendum. in many places in the south, and

certain states, these votes on secession were very divided themselves. there was a great deal of division within the south over a divided election. that would result, of course, in the creation of the confederate states of america in montgomery by february. and abraham lincoln was inaugurated a month later in ofch, inheriting a disunion the american union. it is the most divisive election we have ever had and it is the only one we've ever had where the people who lost this election or part of the people who lost the selection refused to accept his results and bolted from the united states altogether. or try to. host: i wonder how much a conference you -- it concerns you with the term civil war gets thrown around.

here is a column about it. war, talking civil about how divisive we have been. in about six weeks since the 2020 election, it was texas that said congressman after last week's supreme court action, that perhaps the law-abiding states should dan together and form a union of states that will abide by the constitution. how much does that concern you, how much is that hyperbole? guest: it concerns me a great deal because secessionists, and we had variations on this theme throughout our history -- as allen west, by the way, an african-american right wing republican now from texas, formerly abilene from florida, who said that on behalf of the texas republican party. session, i must say, it

behind what they say is the constitution, or a proper interpretation of the constitution. it is frankly not a proper interpretation of the constitution. secession from the union is not constitutional. what it really is, and they can do it, is revolution. states dide southern in 1860 and 1861 was a political revolution. it was not a lawful, sovereign act by states to remove themselves from the union. they do have, as jefferson said in the declaration of independence, the right to revolution if they choose, but understand that if you take any kind of step of secession, it is a political revolution, not a constitutional step i tell you this, too.

all thiserns me about rhetoric about secession, and there has been a texas nationalist movement, a secession group for a long time in texas. it comes and goes, comes and goes. even former governor perry flirted with it. what concerns me about it is this. point, at least what history can help us understand, is that a tipping point on this kind of rhetoric and action comes when more mainstream, whatever that is now, mainstream republicans, when more mainstream people who don't really believe in secession of any kind, literally, find it impossible politically to oppose it. because that is what happened in the south. there were lots of politically conservative big planters, slaveholders in the south who opposed secession in 1860, 1861,

but they could not resist the wave of popular fervor, particularly in states like south carolina, mississippi, louisiana, and then texas, in fact. the seventh,ve was the last of the deep south states to secede before the firing on fort sumter. it is that tipping point that say, aur when, shall we non-secessionist version of republican resistance to this new government, and let's face it, there has been in a lot of republican resistance to even accepting the selection led by mr. trump. those people who are not themselves secessionists find it difficult to oppose a wave of this kind of secessionist fervor, then we will know we are in very serious trouble. host: david, an american history

professor at yale university. with us in this segment of the washington journal until 10:00 a.m. eastern this morning. if you want to join this conversation as we talk about the history of divisive presidential elections, phone lines as usual, republicans, (202) 748-8001. democrats, (202) 748-8000. independent, (202) 748-8002. as folks continue to call in this morning, i want to go back to early october. joe biden any speech at gettysburg quoted some of the words of president lincoln's second inaugural address as he talked about the need for the country to come together through what he had to say back on october 6. >> i give you my word if i'm elected president, i will marshal the ingenuity and goodwill of this nation to turn

division into unity and bring us together because i think people are looking for that. we can disagree about how we move forward. andust take the first steps start with how we treat one another. how we respect one another. inaugural, lincoln said malice toward none, with fondnessor all, with in the right as god gives us to see the right. let us thrive on to finish the work we are in, to build up the nation's wounds. now we have our work to unite and so we, you and i now.her, we press on even after hearing the second

inaugural address, frederick douglass told president lincoln, mr. lincoln, that was a sacred effort. we have to be dedicated to our own sacred effort. gettysburg and the new birth of freedom was at hand. i think it's at risk. every generation that followed gettysburg has been faced with a moment where they must answer this question. whether we will allow the sacrifices made here to be in vain, for to be fulfilled. this is our moment. to answer this essential american question for ourselves, and for our time. host: joe biden back before the election. dr. blake, i want to focus on those words of the second inaugural address. residents during times of political division, something that multiple presidents have

looked back to. guest: yes, it is beautiful prose poetry, the ending of that second inaugural is asking for the best in us, it is asking for of human healing and forgiveness. that is lincoln. anyone who is a student of that second inaugural knows that in the long paragraph before that, lincoln had set that up with his very forthright statement that he was going to prosecute this war. it wasn't quite yet over. he was going to prosecute that war to the bitter end to destroy slavery. his words, every drop of bloodshed by the lash shall b e paid by bloodshed by the sword lyndon, the tribute of

justice in that long middle paragraph of the second inaugural, but the ending, of course, has a classic rhetorical ending, asking for healing. barack obama was very fond of drawing upon, from that speech and others, abraham lincoln the healer. it is the link and who we most often needed. there are different lincoln's, of course. i love that used by biden, i must say. know i published two years ago a biography of frederick douglass, one of my favorite moment in douglas' life. he attended that speech, he was down to lincoln's left about 12 or 15 people deep in the audience and he followed the presidential carriage back to the white house and actually demanded to get into the reception, he didn't have an invitation, but they let him in. and he met with lincoln they are

in the east room at the big reception in the white house and lincoln called him over and asked him, mr. douglas, what did you think of my speech? and that is when douglas said to lincoln face-to-face, mr. president, that was a sacred act. this is asking for the best in us. it is asking for this american ideal that we can fight like hell over policy, we can really disagree over even visions of government, visions of the future, even our most divisive issues. name them however you want, name your top five and we got plenty of them. but in the end, we accept defeat and victory in elections. we accept democratic results. well, sometimes we don't. and the biggest danger to american democracy now, and no one needs visit tell them, is

that we got millions of people , wherever they are getting their information, who do not believe the results of the selection. ro believe it was somehow stolen, that is the favorite word, and that the process of the selection should not be trusted. we've got millions more, a majority, certainly, it appears, that believe it can be trusted. but the deep, deep danger in , evenevel of distrust ourain, even hatred of political system, our political democracy,t just our but our pluralism that lies beneath. again, i will just say this, there is a lot out there of what i would call secessionist spirit , it seems to me, among people

who will never take a political act to secede from the union, they don't know how. thisdon't know how to make happen in the state legislature. but there are a lot of americans, and they have been stoked for years from the right in american politics, who disdain government. many of our basic institutions. who do not trust the media, who do not trust the congress, who do not trust the presidency. and on and on. there are reasons for that, we have some dysfunctional institutions, we have some broken institutions. but there is a kind of secessionist fervor that you can read in the comments of many right wing radio hosts and tv hosts and in the press. a favorite guest, fringe right recently said

that what we've got in this country, and i can quote him here, are two different kinds of people. he said there is a great shift that is going on and he says there's 70 million of us, meaning his tribe, as opposed to however he perceives the other tribe, and he says what they really have to do is take and their families out of a union with liberals. he says we are out of here. what does that mean? where will you go? what will you do when you go there? by what means will you separate yourself? that impulse to separate from institution, the public school, government, a state legislature, the environment protection agency, on and on and on. it is that impulse to separate

from that which you somehow don't believe serves your personal interests. democracy, at the end of the day, makes us believe that ideas more than ourselves. takeover,urselves over these great creeds we have, we are in trouble. morning, auest this professor from yale university of american history. that book that you mentioned on 2018,ick douglass, coming frederick douglass: property freedom." prophet of gainesville, florida, democrat, good morning. caller: yes, on healing the nation, i am a dreamer, i am an old man, martin luther king man, rail of the east coast to the west coast, solar

panels from texas to california and i-10, we have in our state defunding of our public school system and private schools. so it's the dumbing down of america and we need to stop that trend. we are all in this game together. host: are you saying that there could be big projects in this country they could bring the country back together? caller: absolutely, absolutely. putting people to work, putting solar panels upon i-10, re funding our public education, gettoiing some of this law enforcement under control. as you know, they had this "low level bureaucrat" who was just accosted with drawn guns in florida over covid information,

it is beyond belief. host: that is stephen in florida. guest: stephen, i have to applaud that, not any partisan way, but do you remember 1992, when bill clinton ran on many issues, but one of them was going to be major, major funding for high-speed rails. most of that never happened. i thought it was a great idea. there are part of this country, particularly the midwest, which would really benefit and we would be driving fewer cars. i am apublic school, product entirely of public schools. i get to teach at a fancy private university that i am a public school kid, a public university kid. the 60's andege in 70's when it was cheap. you are right, there are big, big ideas we could be doing and we could again become a model to the world.

think of the interstate system back in the 50's. and had that impulse of the cold war behind it. we were going to be ready for defense by the interstate highway system. nobody drives interstate highways anymore thinking about defense against the soviet union, but we are glad we have them. host: hanover marilyn, this is steve, republican, good morning. caller: good, professor blake. -- blight. i hope this question isn't off-topic but it is relevant to the issue of slavery and also misinformation. when our founding fathers wrote what wasitution, compromised was that a slave would be considered to be 3/5 of a person. as a matter of fact, yesterday, a democrat even called about this issue instead this was basically a disenfranchisement

of the right to vote, but women didn't vote, either. i've always been of the opinion that this was offered by the north because if a slave was considered to be a full person, there would be more representation in congress for and thehern states, united states would never be able to vote out slavery because the south would have to much representation. i'd like to have this clarified, and i hope you can do this as a history professor, sir. guest: two are essentially right, the 3/5 clause is about state representation. it wasn't about franchising or disenfranchising black people. that wasn't even considered. you're right about that. advantage tohuge southern states. it was a compromise from many northern delegates at the constitutional convention that

they hated. and did not want to vote for. it was a classic lustration that sometimes you might have to compromise something fundamental to you to get something a bit higher. , i won't fits clause go into all the numbers, but the three fits clause allow increased representation in the biggest of the slave states, and had a direct impact on at least two presidential elections. it gave the southern states more representation in congress then you would have otherwise had without counting 3/5 of the slaves. this idea that the three fits clause means black people are only 3/5 of human beings, that is one way of interpreting it, but the whole idea here was about the power represented in representation. and indeed, it took until the finally, to get rid,

of that three fits clause. host: coming back to the civil war, we spent some time talking about lincoln's second inaugural address. going back to that most divisive presidential election in history of 1860, what did lincoln say in his first inaugural address? guest: many things. out a series of olive branches. the first inaugural is a nice piece of poetry. but it is really olive branches to the south. slavery not attack within the southern states, that was known as the federal consensus. it meant that slaves were considered property under state law, the federal government didn't have the right to step in and ended. hisade it clear that presidency was still going to oppose the expansion of slavery which was what this was all about.

but it is full of olive branches to the south. come to your senses. he is pleading. this is march, 1861. seven states have already seceded from the union. course, by using a piece of shakespere. he feels for the better enters our nature, and how many times have we all heard that passage used? are we practicing the better angels of our nature for the worse angels of our nature? angels, or are we peaceful angels? i have a brief quote from lincoln, since you brought up 1860. that is the first inaugural, another amazing speech that lincoln wrote. but a year earlier, during the campaign, when he's running for president, he's invited from

illinois to new york city to speak at the cooper union. it's a great speech, a famous speech, a speech of february, 1860. i would urge everyone out there to have a look, pull it up online. the cooper institute or cooper union speech. in that speech, lincoln breaks down his appeals directly to southerners. he speaks to them directly in this speech. he pleads with them not to condemn northern republicans and think clearly about what they might do if he is elected. and he also speaks directly to his fellow republicans. is trying to be the moderate healer even before secession happens, but the simple line in the cooper union that i think is directly relevant to what we are experiencing right now, and i hope out there in the right wing in america, especially people who still like think they are the party of lincoln, that they would read this.

he is speaking to southerners plainlyays your purpose stated is that you will destroy he bevernment unless allowed to construe and enforce the constitution as you plea se. there are points in dispute between you and us. or ruin in all events. rule or ruin. spirit at thee bottom of allen west, or anyone else who sees this kind of secessionist spirit? impulsemetimes not the at the base of all of this nonsense we had to live through for now five weeks, six weeks, of people refusing to accept the selection? what is it you want? you want to rule, or ruin. there is lincoln telling southerners on the eve of the

election and the secession to follow, if that is what you want, you know what you're doing. host: chantilly virginia is next. john, line for democrats. caller: good morning, thanks for taking my call. it seems to me, professor, people don't read their history anymore. secession, they think that they lost what they have. sometimes from virginia to indiana and i see people get false promises. they have taken away everything and then they don't get nothing back. donald trump, used the language that these people want to hear, that he will do much for everything they have.

is my question, professor, the history of this country, the president stays for four years. you can get rid of the president and go back to a campaign and win the election. think,t do you professor, when you look at what happened in london, brexit, and what is going on in our country? when you look at brexit, the language is the same as what you win 70ntioned, we million and if we don't get what we want, we are leaving the country or something like that. i believe that we need to look back and think that people are hurt right now and when you travel somewhere in west virginia and ohio, people are losing their dignity because they don't have a job. host: thanks for the call. strongyou've made a very

point and i actually agree with you. the worst thing that american liberals, democrats, whatever you want to call them, can do, asto dismiss trumpism something simply unsophisticated, simplistic and foolish. the worst thing we can do is laugh it away. the worst thing we can do. what populace do, and this guy fierceespecially right-wing populace, let's say what it was, but their real grievances at the base of trumpism, there are millions of americans, as you say, sir, who do not believe in the united dream anymore. the american dream has failed them. factories have left, real jobs have left their communities. the only thing left our service economy johns, if they can find those. and then the pandemic made it all worse. they do not know how to have

faith in any kind of health care structures in our society anymore because we don't have universal health care. they don't know how to have faith that the government could solve anything for them because they are told every day and they believe it, in many instances, that the government has ruined their lives. so there's very little grievance out there among people, especially in regions you were defining. i have any mail yesterday from a former student of mine who travels a lot in rural michigan. i grewppens to be where up, in flint, michigan. and he was telling me, he said david, you would not believe comedy confederate flags and trump flags there are along this highway he was driving. from where he teaches in indiana up to michigan. he said you wouldn't believe this in your home state. actually, i would believe it, i think.

so what democrats have got to do now, if they can ever pull the the onen together, thing liberals and democrats are best at is fighting amongst themselves. they've got to come together around economic policies that reach the very people you are talking about because if they don't, they have lost them to this kind of radio-stoked, television-stoke and trump-stoked populism which is not necessary for providing them with any solutions except tax cuts for people far, far richer than they are. host: american history professor david blight at yale university. a whole lot of calls for you, we will try to get to as many as we can. sean in new york. republican, good morning.

caller: good morning, gentlemen. the segment, the professor made a statement about the constitution and such, and i thought this call from abraham lincoln was right on the money where the professor was saying this country belongs to the people who inhabit it. wherever they shall go -- whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right or revolutionary right to overthrow it. i think that is where the professor was going. if i'm not mistaken. guest: that is basically right. if secession is the question, it is not constitutional, it is a revolution. caller: exactly, yes. i think a lot of people get those confused, i've a history teacher myself. people get confused with the two of them, you know. guest: you are right. caller: i'm glad you said that

because i admire mr. lincoln among other people in our history, so for instance i think george washington could have been king of this country if you wish, but he chose not to. that shows a lot of character for our first president. host: new york, alan is next. democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. washington journal, longtime viewer, fantastic show. i believe the only nonpartisan show on tv that lets people call in and say. a couple thoughts and a question. one, i think you could have a sign in the back with a quote from a publicist. he said no one ever lost money

underestimating the intelligence of the american public. long, just put in pt barnum said, there is a sucker born every minute. either way, the second point i people bring out is that say the republican party is the party of lincoln. lincoln, to me, was more of a liberal mannequin server to. the democrats at the -- then a conservative. they kind of switch ideas around at the turn of the 20th century. lastly, the question i would like to ask, i hate to put you on the spot, when obama won the presidency, mitch mcconnell made a statement on behalf of the weublican rank-and-file that did nothing to help this whendent succeed that is the great depression began .mongst the republican party

i thought it was weird for him to say it at the time. on,e were two wars going people were losing their savings, their homes, their jobs, we will do nothing to help this president succeed. host: dr. bright on those points? guest: well, watch what mitch mcconnell says because it will be what he will do. i couldn't agree more with you, sir. barack obama's first election anyway brought some 15 million new voters into the american electorate, young people, hispanics, more blacks, etc. that obama coalition which won decisively in 2008 scared the hell out of the republican party. they circle their forces and they resisted, essentially

everything that the obama administration attempted to do during its eight years. that doesn't mean that there were not mistakes made by democrats and obama himself as well. but we have to take seriously that one of our political parties in this country really doesn't fundamentally believe in governing. and that's the republicans. they believe in using government for those parts of it that can't serve their interest groups. and no one knows better and is better at manipulating this man mitch mcconnell since the republican party is now a party of minority rule. in then't represent congress, the majority of american voters. because of that undemocratic institution of the u.s. senate,

and they don't win popular votes. seven of the last eight presidential elections, the popular vote was won by democrats. that is a pattern that is not likely to be broken in times to come. take mcconnell at his word. host: san diego, california, this is kevin, independent, good morning. caller: thanks for c-span and thanks for this topic. i think that the country is deeply divided and we need to spend a lot more time talking about a path forward. i have three points. the first is a minor point. i think it is a mistake to talk about the rejection of the 2020 results as something new that is caused by trump. thisnk in a lot of ways, is more a reaction to what the democrats did in response to howp winning in 2016 and they used sham investigations

and impeachments to try to overthrow the 2016 election, so i think the democrats need to look at themselves and the problem here instead of just blaming trump. fundamentally, i think the country is deeply divided for reasons that are beyond the election. the philosophies of the right and left, individualism broadly associated with the right, collectivism broadly associated with progressives, are just still irreconcilable. that, the country is deeply balkanized now as well. we have millions of people in the country who don't even speak english. i think many of them probably couldn't even identify james madison as the father of the constitution. no commoneally country anymore to unite around.

there are a lot of reasons the country is divided beyond the elections. say one thingwill about this, i actually agree with parts of what you said. election isin this frankly the most hopeful thing we have seen in four years. over 66% of the american electorate turned out to vote. that demonstrated a certain faith in electoral politics that surprised many people, including me. that is a good sign. i will leave the investigations aside for the moment, we can have a spirited debate whether the impeachment was proper and constitutional or not, but what is irreconcilable, i think, is the key word, and you put your finger on the most dangerous thing.

is the democratic party, you call it collectivism, it is really just a belief in uses of government for enhancing the lives of people, i would argue. that is what social democracy is. or the individualism, if you want to call it that, of the american right? there are things about those extremes that are reconcilable. think of policies that used to be so controversial, bitterly controversial. social security, the g.i. bill. medicare. environmental protection, which was first created under president nixon, and we could go on and on and on. are not necessarily utterly bipartisan today, but who wants to kill social security? only some rich people who don't really need it.

millions of people benefited from the g.i. bill and millions of people benefit from medicare. and a host of other features. tor 80% of all of americans get an education in this country get it in a public school. a public school. majority, the vast majority of people who have any higher education in this country, that is over 80% as well, get it from a public university or a community college. there are places where we all benefit. we all benefit from better roads. we all benefit from better sewage systems, we all benefit from better electrical systems that don't blow down any thunderstorm. we all benefit from better practices by police. i don't really know anybody who wants to abolish the police. but i know a lot of people who think there is a lot of reforms that police should consider. there are places we can find

agreement. i do get a little tired sometimes of the appeal to upty, but they have to come with some kind of real policy and i do think there are submittals that can be reconciled -- there are some middles that can be reconciled but both sides have to want to do it for reasons other than just staying in power. ray, new york, this is line for republicans, good morning. caller: good. last couple callers have been really exceptional on hitting these key points. idea.ing to continue that i differ in little bit on what of the people that want so-called trumpism. they are not looking to or to form another

country. what they are trying to do and what they are having a lot of continue, ish will to bring the people who are not into the electorate. the election was stolen, there is no question, the evidence is overwhelming. drivenis not necessarily by democrats versus republicans as much as it is lack of information and people that just don't follow politics and therefore, they don't recognize the clear signs of the problem in the election. guest: you just stated stolen election as a fact. acts must have evidence. if we haveon't know

time here to debate that, but ipso facto it was stolen, you said, by what evidence? there were more than 60 court cases that trump's lawyers had no evidence. where do you take that argument? is it just a belief? this is what happened with the original secessionists and then after the war that developed the loss cultural tradition which is possibly part of trumpism, i don't know yet. but it was only a set of beliefs. and the idea of a stolen election in 2020 is a belief looking for a history that does not exist. host: tom is next out of baltimore, maryland. about 10 minutes left in our program today and in our time with professor blight of yale university, american history professor. you can check out his work at history.yale.edu as you follow along today. tom, go ahead.

caller: i will be very brief. professor, the cold war in the late 1960's and a purpose to diesel boats. -- russian submarines, defend our democracy. we have met the enemy, and they are us. thank you, sir. guest: bravo. a 4.5 year veteran of world war ii. he voted republican all of his life. he was a farm boy from rural michigan. he had his historical reasons. live long and for me to really debate any of this with him, but above all, my own father was a patriot.

love richard nixon and john kennedy in the same breath. we play that clip from joe biden at gettysburg. anniversaryed 157th where gettysburg address lincoln called for a new birth of freedom. didn't that happen in the years afterwards, and how many times in this country to get think we have had a new birth of freedom? when do we know when we have achieved that? guest: that is a great question, john, i have written about that any couple of beds. yes, a real rebirth was achieved in the wake of the incredible slaughter of the civil war. it was a rebirth of the constitution itself in really, a second american republic. born out of the

three great constitutional amendments, the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments. every american should understand there aree amendments a lot of other things on that list. but we should know those three amendments. an attempt to re-create in american republic around the law, of ar multiracial democracy. it was created by the white democrat party in the south during reconstruction and afterwards. you can say we had another kind of rebirth, certainly in policy measures in the progressive era. century of the 20th into the teens, up to world war i. this is the year when americans had to respond to industrialization and urbanization and immigration on

a scale never before. and we had a rebirth out of the 30's and the great depression with the new deal and eventually, world war ii. but that was a genuine rebirth from tremendous trauma, let's not forget that. my own parents were children of the great depression. and you could say we had another rebirth, in the 1960's, out of the civil rights movement. the 1964 civil rights act in the 1965 voting rights act changed political rights, we thought, forever. but here they are again. in an era of extended voter suppression and extended concern for the right to vote, which one side and are politics tries in 1000 ways to limit and suppress

and the other side tries to expand. we can disagree about whether that is good or bad, but that is the truth, folks. so we have had multiple rebirths. some of them out of great blood sacrifice. and some of them out of great political turmoil. but if we are to have a rebirth from this era, and not just the testing, tof trump, go back to a lincoln term, testing whether this kind of republic really can work in the 21st century world, if we are to have that new rebirth, it is going to take enormous political and moral imagination at some point, some kind of cooperation between these extremes to narrow society. if all we do is stoke the extremes, we may not have any hope. host: just a minute or two left

this morning, but who leads these rebirths? obviously we talk about lincoln's call for a rebirth of freedom at gettysburg, but is it always one person?where can a new rebirth start ? guest: the rebirths have never been about one peers -- one person. fdr brought a whole generation of thinkers and political scientists and visionaries. and to rethink ways to save government itself. lincoln was gone. in april, 18 65. it was leadership in what was then known as the radical republicans who envision the ,ossibilities in section two i'm sorry, section one of the first amendment. the birthright citizenship clause in our constitution. and came out of a context out of the visions of political leadership.

a leadership that knows its history, deeply knows its history, name a politician out there you will be admire. i bet you they read a lot of history. with an we need people moral, political imagination to use that history to reimagine ourselves and our own time, whatever the opposition. host: dr. david blight is our guest this morning. we actually do have a few minutes more as we wait for our next event to begin. we will be taking viewers in just a few minutes but will try to get one or two more calls in as we wait. north carolina, republican, good morning. >> good morning and thank you for taking my call. there is a hidden hand that operates in this country, and that hidden hand controls the democrats and the republicans. and it is based in the islands

in the english wants to control this country. and so we can talk all this other mess, but we as americans need to redefine our constitution, and we need to break the tie with the united kingdom. host: dr. blake? -- dr. blight? guest: i don't know, i don't think the brits have any control over resin all. if they did, we would have a parliamentary system, wouldn't we? if they had some sort of control aer us, we probably have national health insurance program like they do. brits, worried about the they can pull themselves together right now. scotland will probably secede from the u.k. within the next five years if they are not careful. everybody loves to hate the tax

a more fair, a more democratic tax structure is something we could all hope for and aim for. structure, that believes that the wealthy can somehow regenerate all things above the economy. we've got so much evidence that that is not true. if the right people hold onto what the tax be.cture will host: ned in idaho. waiting.r you're absolutely right. it started at the george floyd 220 cities e had burning. couple months later, you see all down.atues coming there's also what's going to make this relevant, there