have a good evening. >> thank you. good night to everybody. ♪ >> you are watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. created by america's cable television companies as a public service and brought to you today by your television provider. inues. host: a conversation on media and misinformation. alan miller is the founder and ceo of the news literacy project. do, andxplain what you how is your group funded? is a national

nonpartisan educational organization that creates programs and resources to teach, share, and learn how to discern credible information, and it gives students and the general public the tools to be informed and engaged participants and democracy. we are funded by a range of foundations, corporations, and individuals that help make us the leading provider of news literacy education today. host: newslit.org. by alan miller talks about this idea of finding credible information and the emerging world of alternative realities. alan miller, is it getting worse? guest: yes. there is no question. i think this is one of the great existential challenges of our times. it is a question of whether facts will continue to matter.

thatear 2000 is a year conspiratorial thinking went mainstream, whether we are talking about pandemic deniers or the rise of qanon, or the widespread belief that the election was fraudulent and not legitimate. we are seeing a level of anger and alienation, and mistrust in institutions, whether it be the government, science, or the media that has left people prone to believing things that are not fact or reality-based. i think this is really the greatest challenge for democracy moving forward is whether we can find common ground based on the evidence, and fact-based information to move forward as a country. host: why do you think it has gotten so bad? who do you blame for it? guest: i think this has been a long time coming, and as i mentioned, i think there has been a level of disconnection to

government and institutions that has left people prone to looking for easy answers. it gives them a sense of belonging, and a sense of the enemy being the other. and then, a reinforcing mechanism through social media where people are able to plug into others who have similar beliefs. didously, president trump not create the circumstances, they were there previously. but he has exploited them and accelerated them. think,int now where, i this represents a crisis in the country's civic rights. host: alternative realities is what you talk about on the piece , is this another word for news bubbles or media kerchief -- medial echo chamber, or something worse? guest: the ability for people to

look for information that will confirm their beliefs for confirmation rather than information that they educate or challenge their beliefs on social media has really amplified this phenomenon. i think that the education system there is some responsibility. we need to bring back teaching civics, and at the heart of that, critical thinking to know what information to discern and to create. and i think that this is continuing to be -- it is going to continue to be a very serious problem until we take responsibility for what we consume and share, and be mindful about it. and, responsible. host: if you want to join this conversation this morning with alan miller, founder and ceo of the news literacy problem -- project.

republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independent, 202-748-8002. withll been -- he will be us until about 9:30 eastern. you talk about taking responsibility. when you talk to members of the media, how should they take responsibility and what can they do to address the problem that you are bringing up? guest: so, i think that downalists need to double on verification, accuracy, transparency, and accountability. they need to tell the truth, and call out lies, and avoid false balance. they should cover the biden willistration, and they need to wean themselves off president trump. storyl clearly remain a

in terms of his political influence, his legal challenges, his future in terms of the media , but i would recommend that reporters turn off their notifications of his tweets. as margaret sullivan writes, " not treat him as a president in mar-a-lago."up in host: do you think the news media was tough but fair on the trump administration? you talk about the president's tweets. he would argue that the media was too tough and very much unfair. i am very know, cautious about talking about the media, because it encompasses a broad array of partisan outlets and online sources as well as what we think of as the mainstream media. that arall, yes, i think

,ot of the coverage was tough and was appropriate. not agree.ainly do obviously, president trump characterized coverage that he felt was critical as fake news and accused journalists of making things up and i do not think that that happened. host: a question from one of the folks following along on twitter. canyon asking "how accurate are the fact checkers?" guest: i think the independent fact checkers play an important and by andhat is -- large they are credible forces for people to look to when things are in dispute. one of the things about them is that they do not simply ask them to trust what you -- do not ask

you to trust what they are sharing. they show their findings and the basis for their determinations and are transparent on where their funding comes from. host: who are the fact checkers you are referring to? who are some examples? guest: factchecked out org, ofact,cal fact -- polit and first draft does well as well. host: plenty that c-span viewers see on this program. i want to get to the phone calls. buffalo, a democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: how are you? host: doing well. caller: i have a question of mainstream media. today, and i try to

keep an open mind, and they are still talking about the state election and all of this stuff. abouto me a favor, speak stations that we have in this country. democrats do not have nothing. we have tom hartman, and he is trying to help us, but this is getting way out of hand. thank you. guest: so, i think that the right wing media chamber -- media echo chamber is a significant force as we look at the postelection. seen the attorney general say that he has seen no widespread examples of fraud that could change the election. headdministration's former of cybersecurity says that it is

the most secure election and over 50 lawsuits that have been dismissed including one that went to the supreme court with a conservative majority. so, i think there is no question that this continued questioning and challenging of the outcome is helping to fuel a level of distrust that is unhealthy for democracy and is threatening. we have seen 77% of trump supporters believe the election was fraudulent and stolen, 65 million people, and i think that the notion of a haydn administration seen coming in as legitimate by such a large proportion is corrosive to the heart of democracy. host: do you think there is a liberal echo chamber? guest: sure. i think it is less pronounced in some ways, but we have got the

opportunity for people to go to sources that they will likely agree with, including those with strong political viewpoints or slams. by, that is reinforced algorithms, what people get on their social media feeds. and, you see it in terms of trust. there is a decline in trust of the media, but a real bifurcation in what people trust based on their political beliefs. host: michelle, out of new is,er: my question to you do you feel that the hunter biden -- take away trump, take away joe biden, that the hunter biden connection with russia -- with china should have been suppressed? that everybelieve voter in the united states should have been aware of the situation? this is about our future.

you guys keep the echo chambers in the right wing media. if you guys did your job and we would have to believe your side of it and that you are wrong. you have maxine waters and everyone else telling people to go out and hurt people. do you cover that? no. host: mr. miller? guest: i am no longer in the news media. , i coveredlist critical stories on the clinton administration and bush administration and the newsletter a project is nonpartisan. in terms of the hunter biden story, major news organizations looked into that story. .hey certainly did pieces on it

when the emails. , that was explored and discussed. certainly on conservative media, attention.en i don't believe that is a story that was suppressed. it is obviously an ongoing story now. of new jersey, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. on c-span ever since it has been on but i have never got to say what i want to say. 2000 election being settled in 29 days, the judge was an appointee. he was the one man who got the supreme court swing vote to stop the recount of the 2000 election which was a difference of 512 votes in florida which by the

law of florida, should have recounted the whole state. instead the democrats wanted to recount dade county and the dade miami cubans have fixed the vote so it looked like gore lost. the whole county in north dakota, 25,000 black voters were locked out of the poll. someone did a proxy and those voters never were counted. a supremelabeled as court vote to stop the recount. when they did recount it the way gore wanted, bush lost. host: do you think you will ever get over the 2000 election? caller: first of all, it was never settled fairly. it was never a majority vote.

it was just a one man vote. the judge stopped the recount. number two -- host: alan miller, let's pick up here. there were a lot of calls after the 2000 election for democrats to get over the election, to accept george w. bush. here we are in 2020. a lot of calls by democrats to republicans to get over the 2020 election, to accept joe biden. caller'sthink that the point was important. four of the five last elections were closer than the 2020 election. in every case, including florida which did hang on a small number of votes, there were irregularities. it went to the supreme court which was settled along partisan lines. in all of those cases, including the one involving al gore, the loser graciously acknowledged defeat and we had a smooth and

peaceful transition from one administration to another. this also included mitt romney lost to president obama in 2012. it does underscored that this election was not that close when you look at either the popular vote or electoral college. we are now at six weeks of disputing it every which way including georgia overseen by republicans who support president trump. it does seem to me that on that basis there is certainly no question about the outcome. host: a caller brought up hunter biden and this question of what the media chooses to cover, what the media does not choose to cover. the white subject of house press secretary in the white house press room. i just want to play two minutes of that and get your reaction. [video clip] >> it is unfortunate that it

does not get much coverage in the media. we should not be surprised in the last 24-48 hours there have been quite a few stories in the mainstream media. as former white house press secretary ari fleischer said, the press does not cover. last week we found that the mccracken congress may eric swalwell was in full traded by an allegedly chinese spy. his 2014 funds for campaign and even planted an intern in his office. that relationship continued until the fbi briefed him in 2015 and that was good reporting done by axios. the new york times website as of this morning had not one result for eric swalwell's ties to chinese spies. when the story broke, guess how many minutes of coverage it got on msnbc and cbs?

zero. cnn devoted three minutes and 16 seconds, however it was covered on fox. interesting pre-election and postelection coverage on the hunter biden scandal which was not covered at all by many .utlets in the lead up to the election, on october 15, you had a new york times headline that said trump said to be warned that he was being given russian disinformation over hunter biden. now december 10, the new york times headline, investigation of hunter biden is likely to hang over biden as he takes office. washington post on october 16, the headline, the truth behind the hunter biden non-scandal. now we have the headline that says this, hunter biden tax probe advising -- investigating business deals. russian different summation, that is a favorite -- disinformation.

december 2, political reads, justice department interest in hunter biden covered more than taxes. a really interesting turn of events and good for those who covered what was the story all along. ofdo you accuse others disinformation when you spread it every day? host: kayleigh mcenany in the white house press room. alan miller, your thoughts on her comments. reflect, themments media is not a monolith. it is a highly competitive number of organizations and journalists and her comments cited reporting by axios and politico and the washington post that were breaking elements of the story as they unfolded including what is news and recent news about the investigation of hunter biden

that is now being reported and widely covered. say toonsumer, i would follow a wide range of outlets, not just those that you agree with, and follow stories over time. truth often takes time to emerge. there are in normal sleep competitive forces at play -- enormously competitive forces at play. i don't believe that these decisions as a whole are being driven by some collective widespread bias. jeff r kind california, inependent -- jeff california. something,ave to do it drives me crazy. i believe in civics, i believe

in classical western literature and everything and it is just .eing destroyed not going to flip the channel and watch fox news. thank god for c-span, thank god for david land, the economist, the atlantic. whenever i begin to scratch the , do you even know what you were talking about when you read this supreme court decision? people just fly off the handle. i hear kayleigh mcenany, what is the point? when do we get back to political ideology? when do we get back to, but was it, justice o'connor for her unfortunate dementia was really -- she had a program of civic.

civics has to be a national mandate. it is like an epidemic. it drives me crazy. host: mr. miller? guest: i completely agree about the need to bring back civics. to give the next generation a grounding in american government. at the core of that should be critical thinking skills to know -- how to sort fact and fiction and what information to trust and share. our democracy depends on an electorate that is informed and engaged, not misinformed and enraged. everybody has a responsibility to look at anything we encounter, any piece of news and ask ourselves, who created this, for what purpose? is it intended to inform or divide? what are the sources, what is

the documentation? is there bias? what about the bias i bring to what i'm looking at? step back and ask yourself is this something i should trust, share, act on. i think we need to begin to become part of the solution instead of the misinformation problem and say false information stops with me. host: when you start teaching kids that? guest: we start middle school and we focus on middle school and high school. we have a virtual classroom technology that is being used in every state in the country in history, social studies, english, and journalism classes. we have created resources for the general public because we realize that misinformation cuts across generations and we have a version of the classroom and are newsletter that anyone

can access and use. host: did you say check-ologiy? guest: it is an engaging journalists and experts. host: what is an example of one of those lessons? guest: the foundational lesson is how to sort information based on primary focus. we are looking at news opinion and information and that is before you get to making things up, false context as a separate lesson on misinformation. we launched a timely lesson on conspiracy theory. we have lessons about personal information according to the first amendment, the washington role of journalism and how to sort everything from arguments to determine what is credible. host: newslit.org is a good place to start for that? guest: yes.

.org.it.org and checkology host: mike is in houston. good morning. caller: good morning. god help our kids. the media stories on donald trump were 93% negative. 67%, but 93% negative. the russian collusion store was on tv every day in every segment on cnn. .hey talked about impeachment 67 house democrats did not even show up at the and i grayson in 2017. in 2017. inauguration you don't have to fact-check that. fact-check is a liberal organization. joe biden could not even fill the circles at his rally and got 80 million votes? do you think we should look at mail-in ballot? should we look at ballot harvesting?

if you cannot match the signature, where is the ballot, i think there could be a problem. host: when you say the media coverage was 93% negative, who do you include in the media? guest: let's start with chuck todd and peter alexander at nbc news. they omit stories, it is very common. they don't talk about the good things trump did like building the wall he said he would build or the embassy going to jerusalem for the nafta reform that barack obama said he would do. they don't talk about those things. they don't talk about the midwest. i am from youngstown ohio -- youngstown, ohio. youngstown, ohio had a separate tracking industry in that region. 60 miles east, north, south. it does not get talked about. do you think alexander is going to go there and talk about the revitalization of the steel industry? that never happened.

and you wonder why the county flipped to donald trump for the first time since 1928, it went republican. do you think mr. miller is going to know about this stuff? host: mr. miller? guest: first of all, i would like to see that survey of 93% whether it would include fox news and so on and what the basis for determining positive or negative coverage was. think that int i some respects the coverage of president trump himself and stories related to him including the russian investigation was overplayed particularly by cable news outlets. i think we have seen at two elections where there is the press that has been surprised by support and the

acknowledgment of not understanding exactly what is going on in the american heartland and rural areas as the caller suggests that there is a need to get out there more. i think there is some basis for that. as far as the election, in a pandemic with all of the --cerns, the election hit played out smoothly. the postelection and the vote counting itself, to the greatest scrutiny we have ever seen. we had a national civics lesson during this period. much of it was overseen by republican officials, state officials, secretaries of state and certified by legislatures. i think there has been ample opportunity for president trump's attorneys to present any evidence that they have in

multiple state and federal courts, many of them overseen by judges appointed by president trump for republicans. beenery instance, it has found to have no basis. -- i was an investigative reporter for many years. it did not matter what the -- ime, the subject was wanted to nail that story, to break it first. there are lots of reporters out there, investigative reporters who would pursue those stories and probably have pursued them and found that they are groundless, baseless at this point. -- notit is part of this fact-based thinking to suggest that these things have not gotten an airing. host: you were an investigative

reporter at the l.a. times. what is one of the stories you are most proud of? i broke the campaign-finance scandal in 1996 showing illegal money coming from asia to support president clinton's reelection, helping introduce the world to johnny chung in the buddhist temple that led to many investigations and subsequent convictions. in 2000 i did work on both george w. bush and al gore. in 2004 i spent a year investigating environments a policy of george w. bush it also led to investigations and hearings. i spent a year investigating the marine corps aviation program working with a colleague, focused on the most dangerous plane in the military over decades -- killed 45 with the

best pilots and those planes were never used for the purpose it was sought initially. this was part of a broader program for which they paid a great price in blood and treasure. host: alan miller, the founder of news literacy project, newslit.org. he is with us for just about 10 minutes more this morning as we take your calls about the media and misinformation. this is mark in west virginia, independent. caller: good morning. you all know that stimulus check, $600 per month, that don't sound normal for a poor person. -- $500, $700. host: stick around for our last 30 minutes of washington journal because we will return to those

stimulus checks, now very likely to be part of the deal happening on capitol hill. we hear that deal is coming together. it is not complete yet. congress could be working through the weekend according to the latest reporting. we will talk more about stimulus checks in our last half hour. we want to get the callers who want to chat with mr. miller. built in pennsylvania, democrat. in pennsylvania. caller: you are old school. you are the kind of guy who would get out there and get a story. i will tell you they are too few of you guys around today. let me give you a couple of examples. the debates -- i did not see any cbs, any ofon nbc, the big news organizations calling for more debates. they let biden sit in his bunker, wherever he was at in delaware.

you would think that journalists that want to find out what this guy is all about would be saying i'm a let's have some more debates. they did not do that. that tells me the media did not want more debates because they did not think joe could stand up there. another store that blew my mind was this michael guy. i could turn on every news organization, i can slip through -- i could flip through there. fell off my barstool when i heard that. .t goes on and on i am a democrat. -- i not vote for drop, did not vote for trump. i could go through the tv. c-span, they had that guy scully , he was supposed to be a moderator for the third debate. then they found that he was in

collusion with somebody over there at the trump organization or somebody that hated trump like 80% of these so-called journalists in america today hate his guts. let me tell you one thing, when he is gone you will see nbc, cbs, abc, all of them inviting him in because they know he is good for their ratings and that is exactly what happened when he was running for the president. they all had him in. every other day, trump was on morning joe and they were asking him and laughing. they helped that guy get elected. you watch what happens. when he is out of office, they will be inviting him back because they want their ratings to go up. i don't hate the guy. i will be glad that he is gone for one thing. i want to see if the so-called journalists start actually following the sky, this new

candidate and we know absolutely nothing about his vice president pig. we knowat was -- nothing about his vice president pick. i want to let alan miller jump in on those statements. guest: first of all, the number of debates set by the debate commission, -- is set by the debate mission, not the news media. we did not need debates for the media to cover joe biden. debates are one important way for the public to select a candidate. i think the caller makes a very important point about president trump's if yes, the love-hate relationship with much of the

media. attackedhe attached -- the fake news, he helped to drive ratings and profits for television and circulation for many newspapers. he enabled many of those who covered him to become best-selling book authors and media celebrities. i do take this will be a major ofllenge given the contract president-elect biden who will be a source of much less drama and division when he is in office. for the news media to ween itself off of the daily coverage of the former president that it has become accustomed to. virginia juste in across the river. independent. comment was to something mr. miller said.

the only thing that i would point out is, cannot speak in terms of absolutes like always and not a single case. -- most of cases them have not even been allowed to go forward which may be right or wrong. it is not that fraud does not exist and that illegal actions did not exist, it is just that the judges or whoever was hearing it did not think it was substantial enough to overturn the election in that area. there are several cases that are still proceeding through the courts and some have been granted a few have been granted relief based on what was brought forward. think beau biden will be sworn in as president on january 20 -- joe biden will be sworn in as president?

caller: i do. there was not necessarily sufficient numbers of fraud to overturn the election in those areas. but fraud is fraud. my desire would be out of this whole process and all the things exposed, we will have a much stronger system that absolutely validates the signatures and the voters and can provide results every single time and it was squash a lot of the doubt and help us going forward. host: mr. miller? guest: the caller makes some good points. there have been some examples and we have seen the attorney general expresses, there is no real evidence or credible allegations of fraud that was widespread enough to produce a different outcome. you look at the battleground

states and the numbers for were muchelect biden higher in places like michigan and pennsylvania. we have seen recounts, numbers have changed, but they have changed in very small matters and in one case, to the benefit of president-elect joe biden. absolutely the cases should go forward and where there is evidence, it should be heard. i think that is where the process has unfolded. we have seen a very clear outcome at this point. host: one last call, dave in california, good morning. caller: first of all, if you will live -- allow me to give a whereshout out to c-span conservative viewpoints are not being canceled by cancel culture. a great exchange of ideological

viewpoints has always been the bedrock of our democracy and it is unfortunate whether it is on college campuses or social media that we have a generation that does not seem to have the same appreciation for the values and ideals and principles our country has stood for. noticed the election, i the media was suppressing stories that were damaging to biden. the story that the new york post broke regarding hunter biden and his association with a ukrainian gas company. even though there were verifiable sources and evidence, the signature -- hunter biden's ,ignature, his computer confirmation of emails were on that computer, media would not report that. stories that were damaging to trump, they had no problem.

for example, the story in the atlantic magazine that trump had referred to our world war ii vets who died in europe as losers and suckers when there was no verifiable source for that. that allegation was refuted by multiple sources including john bolton who said he would have written an entire chapter in his book is that had been true. it goes to confirm how biased and dishonest and corrupt the mainstream media has become. host: mr. miller? story,the hunter biden it is not true to say that the media has not -- it has gotten tremendous attention on fox news and from other conservative sources and the new york post. they looked into the story and basically refuted that allegation.

so, other outlets looked into it and explored it as well and did reporting and found there were all kinds of holes in the initial allegation. i would disagree that the media is corrupt. again, media covers a very broad journalists and news outlets. it is imperfect in its nature, but i think ultimately journalists, quality journalists are trying to get to the truth as best they can at the time and present the public with information upon which they can make their decisions in a vibrant democracy. newslit.org is the website of the news literacy project. alan >> c-span's "washington

journal," every day we take your calls live on the air, and discuss policy issues that impact you. responseing, pandemic and recovery senior vice president for the association of health officials reviews efforts to implement a national covid-19 vaccination plan. political science professor david schultz talks about his recent op-ed in which he argues the presidency has become too powerful. 7:00 "washington journal," a.m. this morning. watch next week starting sunday at 8:00 a.m. eastern featuring books from time magazine essayists. cnn political analyst investigative reporter, princeton university, cultural hill's opinion

editor, former trump organization executive, and heritage senior fellow and former george w administration staff or. staffer. >> yesterday, new york representative eliot engel delivered his farewell speech on the house floor. representative engel has served in congress for three decades. he was defeated in the democratic primary for new york's 16th congressional district. rep. engel: thank you madam speaker. i ask unanimous consent to revise and extend my remarks. >> without objection. rep. engel: madame speaker, i would hope that anyone who has ever had the privilege to serve as a member of congress leave this place with a heart full of gratitude. after 32