use our website to follow the trends, track the spread with interactive maps, and what updates anyatch time at c-span.org/coronavirus. the coronavirus package is expected to cost around $900 billion for a price tag. it would include enhanced unemployment benefits, money for schools, vaccine distribution, and small businesses. also, another round of relief checks to the tune of $600, which is the figure being debated. the pos was held up yesterday over a back-and-forth between two senators over the role of the -- the federal reserve.

finishing details on a compromise saturday night. the federal reserve would retain its ability to set up emergency lending programs without congressional approval, but it would face narrow constraints. the fed would not be able to replicate programs identical to the ones started in march without the approval of congress. that is the wall street journal today. when it comes to the members involved in this back-and-forth, first you will hear from senate minority leader chuck schumer on senator toomey's proposal. [video clip] >> the number one outstanding issue is the proposal by the republican senator from pennsylvania. this has not been an important feature of our negotiations over the past few weeks. only in the past few days have senator toomey and senator mcconnell introduced this specific provision and made it clear they feel strongly about it.

what he is proposing is not about covid or helping the american people. it is about tying the hands of the next treasury secretary in the next fed chairman and in emergency. i hope our republican friends can compromise. senator toomey's legislation is the only significant hurdle to completing an agreement. republicans need to make a decision. we are approaching an all or nothing situation. everybody needs to make a decision on whether we are going to pass this relief or not. host: that was from earlier yesterday before the resolve on the disagreement between the senators and pat toomey took place. for his part, it was pat toomey taking to the floor talking about the role of the federal reserve in coronavirus relief.

[video clip] >> what my language does is puts in and to these three -- an end to these three programs that did their job. they do not need to continue. what are these three programs? there is a corporate bond credit facility. there is a main street lending program and a municipal lending program. tohave never asked the fed engage in fiscal policy or social policy or allocate credit based on political standing. that is guaranteed to politicize the fed and undermine fed independence. fiscal and social policy is the rightful realm of the people who are accountable to the american people, and that is congress. want to address another accusation that is completely ,alse and totally unjustified

that somehow this is an effort to hamstring the biden administration and prevent them from doing what they want to do. to me assure you, my efforts ensure that this would be a temporary facility began when we began discussing the facility. to bethose debates appear resolved as of yesterday. the senate meeting today, possibly voting on this coronavirus relief package, moneywould include to keep the federal government funded. that is all that is happening on capitol hill when it comes to coronavirus relief. you can call us to let us know what you would tell your representative or senator about the relief effort. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. for independents, (202) 748-8002

. olive were to be in branch, mississippi, you would see the start of the rollout of moderna's covid-19 vaccine. it is four times larger than the amount of pfizer's last week. that is the scene of those up ines being loaded those refrigerated trucks. the moderna vaccine expected to rollout as of today. that is taking place at the distribution center in olive branch, mississippi. on your message to congress. hartford, connecticut, what with the message be walter? i would tell senator blumenthal and chris murphy, i have talked to their office

several times, which i know there position on the stimulus package and the virus. i am trying to understand that some of these people, some of these people, they have never been in a crisis like this. we are making this thing political. it is not political. it is a life and death situation. i believe in my heart that senator murphy and senator blumenthal are behind getting becausetimulus money most of these people have never been in a crisis like this. host: did you hear back from your senators? caller: yes. they called me back. thatieve my understanding chris murphy and senator blumenthal took the vaccination. yes.of these people,

they want more stimulus funding because $600 would not cover people's rent. people cannot buy food. you have people that cannot buy medications. host: that is walter in connecticut. let's hear from chris in tennessee, republican. caller: hello. my name is chris. this brings up the most terrible waste of taxpayer money that i know of. we have got this retired prosecutor chasing people around with an air force drone plane. for over sixaround years at the cost of $6,000 per hour. host: since we are talking about this relief package, what would your message to congress be on that? it.er: i think we need

i think we need relief. host: you would approve congress passing another round of relief? caller: yes. in this process, this retired prosecutor, they took illegal taxpayers money. host: we are going to move on. that is not our topic. hello. caller: hello. what white folks fail to realize is that they are ghost nig gers. host: excuse me. let's go to dan, republican, arkansas. caller: i think $600 is a laugh. is nancy pelosi going to buy some new refrigerators for her ice cream. at least make it $1200. host: y $1200 over $600?

what justifies the increase? nothing anymore. that does not even pay your light bill. $1200 is not even enough. it is better than $600. thank you for taking the call. host: this $900 billion price tag, do you worry about these spending efforts by congress? caller: it depends on who is going to run the situation. , whichney can be made up they probably will not. everybody needs money right now. arkansas. is dan in we showed you that distribution center in mississippi with those packages about to be delivered. those boxes rolling into the trucks. we will be showing you these shots throughout the morning when it comes to the moderna

vaccine that is being distributed. for his part, the president of the united states saying, why isn't congress giving our people a stimulus bill? not their fault, it was the fault of china, get it done. adding, give them more money in direct payments. james is next. go ahead, south carolina, democrats line. opinion, these two senators -- host: go ahead. you are on. caller: it is my opinion that deal two senators do this just so they can stand up and showboat in front of the worst president we have had in this country. i will give donald trump kudos

for this. of his tweetse where he said why aren't they passing the bill? give these people $1200. host: why do you think when it comes to the senators it was showboating? caller: because they are afraid what is going to happen to them down the line if they do not showboat for donald trump and show loyalty for him. some of them are going to come up for election down the road, and trump thinks he is going to run for election in 2024. that will never happen. host: that is james in south carolina. the wall street journal adding context to this back-and-forth, saying momentum was slowing down friday and saturday when democrats objected to a push from mr. toomey that would restrict the federal reserve's ability to authorize emergency

lending programs to curb the pandemic. proposal to revoke 429 billion dollars provided to the treasury department to backstop losses in the fed lending programs. hearings, thehose treasury secretary talking about those issues. you can find that at c-span.org. joe lewis says, what do i need right now? sh.all caps, ca michael in portland, oregon, message to my representatives, of course we should throw them economic life rafts. if it were our own children, we would not hesitate, and that should be our standard. state, your city and can text us at (202) 748-8003.

duane is next in ohio, republican line. caller: i am a republican. i voted for preston trump both times. it is critical that they pass relief of any kind. just get the money out and stop bloatedo appease the democratic states for all their misspending over the years. $600 is not enough. .1200 maybe not enough it has been months since hello pelosi putce kibosh on cooperating. host: gary, you are next. caller: we are in a war with

this virus. it is making the american people suffer. any amount of money that the citizens can get, it is our money. aboutast caller talking democratic states being bloated. we send more money in new york state to states that do not contribute as much as new york state. it is our money. give it back to the people who contributed to the tax base. host: when it comes to those direct payments, what do you think about that $600 figure versus $1200? it should be $2000. just like the president wanted. $600, i can get rid of that in three days. it will not cover rent, housing, utilities. it should be $2000. it is our money. if people are worried about the

budget, just put another penny on a gallon of gas, and that will take care of everything. florida, is next from independent line. caller: how are you doing, pedro? host: fine, go ahead. caller: i am a democrat. i mean, i am an independent. i have been a democrat. i have been a republican. now, i am on my own. i have been watching all these people complain, and our government should help us in the need of money. send $600 to everybody. it should be more for the working people. i am retired. around,00 first time $600 the next time around, it has been almost nine months since we got money from the

government. we put our money back into the government. host: what did you do with the $1200? mortgage and a stuff like that. i pay my mortgage and stuff like that. it did not last anytime. maybe two months. that is stretching it. old next 80 years year. home, by myself, excuse me, my cat is here. by myself. .e are just getting through giveninsurance people now $144 back if we change our insurance one to another.

my to welfare, and they want to give you $144 back. i said, that is nice. when i called them this month, and i said how much do we have to pay on our premium? , you are going paymentshe first three january, february, and march. i said, why are we going to miss the payments? they said, that is to get you into the system. host: thanks for the story. apologies. up toe other people lined talk about their thoughts on this relief package. .ou can continue the call

trucks being loaded up with the moderna vaccine. this is happening live as you see it. you sought similar efforts when the pfizer vaccine started its rollout to be distributed. that is the maternal version. we will take your calls. we want to talk about the back-and-forth that has been going on when it comes to this recent announcement of hacking of the government systems. joining us for that conversation, maggie miller with the hill, their cybersecurity reported. they queue for giving us your time. guest: thank you for having me. host: we saw the president and the secretary of state go back and forth as far as the cause behind this. what does this suggest about what we actually know about what happened and who the actors are? guest: that is what it suggests,

that there are so many questions unanswered at this time about this cyber incident. what we know is that these hackers have been in our systems since as early as march and have aeached somewhere around dozen federal agencies, and that includes the energy department, national nuclear security administration, the department of the treasury. it is unclear whether these hackers were able to access anything of value, whether they were able to take anything. .t is unclear many different unanswered questions. in terms of who carried out this attack, it is telling that the secretary of state and a few members of congress, including senator rubio, the acting chairman of the senate intelligence committee, have stated publicly that they believe it may be russian operatives.

there are a lot of unanswered questions. it does seem to be the consensus with the exception of president trump that it was russia behind this attack. host: from your stories, you talked to people who study these kinds of things. one of the themes was how we were blindsided by this kind of attack. guest: absolutely. it is what you could describe as a supply chain attack. the federal government itself was not the first target. it was a third-party company called solar wind, and i.t. company in texas that counted much of the federal government as customers and the majority of fortune 500 companies and many universities and state and local governments across the country. these hackers were able to target this less secure third-party group and infiltrate

rideof their software and the software updates into these various organizations. the blindsided nature of this is that the u.s. government was focused on other ways that russian or other nationstate groups could infiltrate the federal government. they were focusing on ensuring they were not able to directly hack into these agencies and ensuring that the 2020 election was secure from these hacking efforts. eye off theook our ball a little bit, and that may be changing quite a bit. we may have to address this issue of ensuring all these groups the federal government does business with our secure as the agencies themselves. oversight and what has been the reaction from those committees? guest: many agencies have

oversight when this type of hack happens, especially when several agencies are involved. thatwo main committees have emerged as having oversight are the house homeland security committee and the house oversight and reform committee. on the senate side, the senate homeland committee and governmental affairs committee. has already opened an investigation into the incident. the senate homeland security committee, the incoming leaders say they intend to hold hearings and the new congress. miller joining us from the hill, who discusses cybersecurity issues. have we seen any reaction from russia or china in terms of these allegations? guest: nothing from china.

russia has strenuously denied involvement. standard tend to be a response from russia when it comes to cyber activity, denial. you saw president putin deny the involvement of russia in election interference in 2016. i am not certain how much we can trust those denials, however russia has publicly denied being involved. host: thank you for your time this morning. guest: thank you so much. host: back to your calls on your message to members of congress when it comes to coronavirus relief. nathan from maine, thanks for waiting. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am just appalled at the way our federal government handles these things. i do not understand why we are allowing so many mixed messages on the air.

maybe you can answer this, being part of the news media, why have there not been more regulations put in place to prevent this type of misinformation? lawu.k., the bbc is by required to report just the news. host: how does this reference the topic when it comes to relief packages? toler: because we are able spend the message so much that we are fighting over ridiculous items when the rest of the country is suffering. ridiculous items such as what? caller: the disinformation. host: such as what? caller: now we are dealing with the russia situation. we cannot even get out of our own weight and protect our country. host: we will hear from bill on

the democrats line. caller: good morning, pedro. i want to thank you for c-span for what you do. i would say constructive versus nonconstructive results. it is with the bottom line is. we seem to go out of our way to help someone, but we do not want to help and pay the money that is owed to the american descendents of slavery. thisi mean by that is that will not help the wealth gap numbers that are available now. we are seeing the numbers are tremendous compared by race. you can find that on the federal reserve. aree illegitimate children of white americans and the founders of our country should be given that money as well as those who need this stimulus. ,ost: we will go to teresa

washington, republican line. caller: i just wanted to say, i actually called 12 different republican u.s. representatives, and i was listening to channel eight news. they talk about people in california who get a debit card. by the time they got the card, it was at zero balance. in washington, the employment security took down the firewall. names,ve peoples addresses, social security numbers. the state of washington was scammed out of $650 million. they only recovered $102 million. 60,000 people still not getting aid. i called those legislators and say just send it directly to people. give people $1200 a month every month for the next four months. that will cover the people on

unemployment, and it will cover those on lesser income. pay it directly to them. host: what was the reaction to those who called? caller: i think they listened. i hope when they pass it, i hope they take it out of the unemployment and because too much is being scammed. host: did you hear a reaction from the offices you were calling? caller: they said they would have to look at it and talk to their counterparts on the democrat side and get agreement. host: that is teresa. on twitter, this is a slap in the face of americans, totally inadequate. the republicans ignoring the pandemic. washingtontwitter, waiting for speaker pelosi's

blessing, adding that 13 republican senate members were absent yesterday. saying,oper on twitter we americans cannot afford handouts, how about hand ups to those in real need. the facebook page is available, too. we spent the first half-hour on this message you would deliver to congress on covid relief. we will do that for the second half hour. if you want to give us a call, (202) 748-8001 four republicans. (202) 748-8000 free democrats. democrats. (202) 748-8002 for independents. caller: i would like to share in newsmagazine -- [indiscernible] they had an article that was

published that billionaires had gotten almost $1 trillion richer during the pandemic while americans were waiting for a second stimulus check. that has been the situation in america since the 2008 crash. we have been bailing out the banks with no congressional approval for 10 years. we bail out the stock market. yesterdayple just that i read 8 million americans have fallen into poverty. those are people that used to be middle class that are now in poverty. i am a democrat. i am a reluctant democrat. i want to remind all my fellow democrats that just about three or four weeks ago, chuck schumer

and nancy pelosi were just fine to go along with not giving us a stimulus check, not giving anything for the people. amazingly, republican josh , they were the only ones that started fighting for us in the senate. senators holly and sanders, they both addressed the senate on the topic of aid. if you go to our website, c-span.org, you can search everything that was said by numbers of congress and on other forums. joe. caller: good morning. happy holidays. thank you for letting me talk. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: my opinion of this

stimulus bill is that people really need this money in order get theepared to go and vaccination or for the virus, aboutso i have an opinion the russian or so-called russian interference. host: to the topic at hand, when it comes to the aid, do you think this package is fine as it stands? should more funding be put for direct relief? caller: i think more money should go to the people for more relief in order for them to be prepared to go and get the vaccination. billion, that price tag for vaccination distribution, small businesses,

and also enhanced unemployment benefits as well as another round of stimulus checks, which many people have commented on. reportedly about half the amount that was initially sent out earlier this year. when it comes to states, an op-ed in the hill recently appearing. this is from karen still got, who serves as the head of the massachusetts state senate. they wrote an op-ed talking about states needing stimulus. saying, when it comes to to draw fromwe had our savings while disappointing many who called on us to do more. we made it tough calls and did our jobs. when is congress going to do theirs? in a short number of weeks, we went from an estimated $1

billion surplus in fiscal 2021 to a shortfall estimated by some to be close to $600 billion. that gives you that state perspective coming from massachusetts. if you want to read it at the hill website. john in ohio, you are next, republican line. youer: first of all, thank for taking my call. i am a republican. i am a business owner. i have been directly affected by covid. people need money. at the same time, they need food. i think they should come up with some kind of food voucher system so we can protect people from themselves. in the first round, we heard about walmart selling out of big-screen televisions. that is crazy. people will do that and not be responsible.

there has to be some kind of happy medium, money and a food voucher system. like a coupon. what kind of business do you do? caller: i am in the car business. host: go ahead. caller: i have 136 employees. i love the show. hit, we were just about to open another business. were hired 40 people that set to start working two days before ohio shut down. the new business where i hired calls, whatt phone am i supposed to do? $742,000 in two months because i did not lay anybody off. their same to pay

salary. when people talk about the businesses, if you do not support the businesses, they do not have jobs to come back to. then our whole society will collapse. host: did your business get relief from the last round of packages? caller: the first round, we did. it did what it was supposed to do. i took that money, and i gave it to the employees. we paid bills. everyone got paid. it did what it was supposed to do. host: john in ohio from our independent line. los angeles, this is david. caller: good morning. this is interesting because i have been so infuriated with this way in which mitch mcconnell and nancy pelosi have handled this issue. the gentleman that just got off the phone, my compliments to his

rationale. realized heybody was talking about giving food vouchers and making sure people get food instead of big-screen tv's. that shows this man has some compassion because i am out here looking at these food lines in l.a. i am looking at the food lines throughout the united states. our congress is at the 11th hour, arguing over giving the masses crimes. -- crumbs. nancy pelosi is the speaker of the house. she is from california. we live in the most expensive state in the union. to $600compromised down a month. aroundout here messing

with this notion of being outraged with defunding the police. mitch mcconnell and nancy pelosi have defunded the american people. host: that is david in california calling. modernashown video from shipping vaccines. packing vials at mckesson. fedex and ups trucks were slated to depart monday. the government has started shipping ancillary kits to help administer the shots. the story adding, when it comes there, 2.9ines out million doses of the pfizer vaccine have been delivered across the country. between the two vaccines, 7.9 million doses were ready for distribution.

morning, 272,000 doses of the pfizer vaccine have been administered. a december kaiser family foundation survey of people who work in health care delivery, saying 29% of them said they would probably not or deftly would not get a coronavirus vaccines even if it were available for free and had been deemed safe. week afterss than a 3000 invitations were sent to frontline health care workers, about 50% had signed up to receive shots. margaret,ar from democrats line. caller: good morning. i am calling in reference to the gentleman that was just on from

ohio that employed 136 employees, and he talked about how some people went out and foolishly spent their stomachs money at walmart -- stiffness money at walmart. money at walmart. that is the way it is. what gets me, no one talks about how the rich got a big stimulus package. let's take the airlines. they went and bought stock instead of keeping employees on. you want to talk about spending money. nobody ever talks about how the rich and the banks and big oil companies, how they spend their money. come on, folks. let's use common sense. thank you. host: charles in louisville,

kentucky, republican line. puts what matter who package through, we will be all right for the short term. it is what is going to happen later. we all should be putting our faith in god. night, whenomorrow the star of the holy mother earth appears about 10:00 at night, we all say a prayer to god about what is going to happen in the future. host: that is charles in louisville. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell adding his voice, the discussion that was part of the back-and-forth politically over the coronavirus relief effort. he wrote and posted on his website yesterday, the american people have already waited more

than they could afford. every one of us in the senate and the house represent an american family who cannot wait any longer for congress to conclude these discussions. every day we delay may cost more small businesses their survival and cost more americans their lives. that is part of the statement from the senate majority leaders website. kansas, democrats line. caller: i was calling in about the covid relief package. we are a smaller community than most of your cities. supersize walmart went to the 8:00 hour instead of the 24 hour. people off.lot of

my daughter could not open at the beginning of the pandemic. they have so many people that are sick that they cannot fill. i think we need the stimulus to but not just individuals businesses because i am watching them close. all of our restaurants, they may not be a whole lot, but where they are, they are drive-thru only. nobody can go in because they have fewer workers. line, youthrough a may sit at a mcdonald's for 40 minutes to get your food because they do not have the employees because of the sick. rent, electrical, heat, you name it.

help?hink $600 would yes, but more would be better to help them with the combination of rent and electrical. even besure that will with so many more in our area getting sick. kansashat is sherry in giving her thoughts on another round of covid relief. your message to congress. twitter,, off of targeted relief will almost always be more desirable than universally granted programs. frame, i limited time am excited to see final developments. twitter, $600 is a joke. this is a person texting us,

mike from orlando, $600? that is it. $6.66 a day. republicans are truly un-american. pass amy colleagues to covid relief bill yesterday, the day before yesterday. didn't we learn the lesson of the early pandemic and the current post-thanksgiving super surge? if you want to text us, (202) 748-8003. don is up next from new mexico come independent line. caller: good morning. host: you are on. go ahead. caller: thank you. most people do not understand the role of the federal reserve.

the federal reserve has nine facilities. what they have been doing is they have been underwriting much of the economy through giving loans to these facilities. the only reason we got out of the great recession was because of the federal reserve. congress putn barriers on everything the democrats wanted to do, that obama wanted to do. proposingse, to me is a, kazi pilot aimed -- a at thee pilot aimed stimulus bill. one of the things you need to understand about the reason wall street has been doing as well as it has is because of the federal

reserve. the federal reserve has been propping up many of these major industries that would ordinarily have gone under. that is don in new mexico giving us his thoughts on the federal reserve portion. those issues reportedly getting resolved. today is the day a move could take place on the senate side when it comes to the coronavirus relief side. bill would keep the federal 12:01ment funded past tomorrow. the house in the senate expected both. you can follow those on c-span 1 and 2. themflorida, i would tell find another revenue source other than our grandchildren's future earnings.

jersey,ol in new democrats line. caller: good morning. when i was calling in reference was to the relief package. i agree with the man from ohio that there should be some type someod requirement because people do not understand the difference between want and need. i hope when they start the program that they include an apprenticeship program. a lot of companies have them, but you have to take out grants to pay for them. anetter way to fund apprenticeship program is that the person coming in start at a lesser wage and work their way up. an apprenticeship program is a good way to get people back to work. line fromblican

washington, d.c., sandra. go ahead. caller: good morning. i am concerned that the second stimulus bill has caused problems because it was not supposed to happen. i do not believe that the president actually wanted a second stimulus bill. it was an election ploy. when he did not win the election , andse it was in place when they had to argue over the bill, of the stimulus nancy pelosi called their bluff when she took at lower than what they were requesting. now they have to do some other juggling around to try to have an excuse not to pass the bill.

the stimulus is for the economy. it is not for the people. bill that deals with the unemployed people rather than putting money into the wentmy because that money into the economy, and a cave revenue to big business -- it gave revenue to big businesses, not individuals. was just toe time stimulate the economy, not to help the people. john int's hear from illinois, democrats line. caller: good morning. long itunderstand how has taken the democrats and republicans to come to any kind of agreement to help the people. the problem is employment. why have they not put in infrastructure bill so that they

can put people back to work? we talk about apprentices and everything else. you would have apprentices through unions creating jobs that would bring money back and help our country rebuild its infrastructure, which is in need. thank you. host: the new york times talks about employers and whether they can require their employees to get a vaccine. this is the latest guidance from the federal government, saying employers have been waiting for that guidance from the u.s. equal employment opportunity commission because requiring employees be tested for the coronavirus touches on thorny medical and privacy issues touched on by the americans with disabilities act. these are procedures or tests often given in a medical setting

that seeks information about an employees physical or mental condition. if a vaccine is administered to an employee by an employer for action against contracting covid-19, the employer is not seeking information about individuals health status, therefore it is not a medical examination. more to that story, you can read it online from the work of the commission. the vaccine is the topic of discussion when it comes to relief efforts, which includes money for vaccine distribution. moderna vaccine from being rolled out as of this morning. these are the scenes from mississippi where trucks are being loaded as we speak with the vaccine and distributed

across the u.s. fromll hear from barbara minnesota come independent line. thatr: yes, i realized pelosi andc -- mcconnell hate each other so much that they will never want to help each other on any reason. i think they should have the stimulus with individual checks to people and small businesses if they have to. the reason for the division in america is because most republicans that voted for trump are pro-life and most democrats that voted for biden are pro-choice. they will never get together. you cannot compromise on that. michigan,cis in democrats line. hello. caller: how are you today? host: i am well.

caller: i just saw on the news that there is a new strain in china that is more deadly than the one we have. i'm wondering if maybe we should shut the borders down now to keep it out of here. host: when it comes to efforts of relief being debated on capitol hill, what do you think? caller: that is good. they should stop debating and just do it. host: where you directly impacted by it? did you get the first round, and did you need the first round? caller: no, i did not. freezersork, we make to store the vaccine. i have been working all through this. i do not need it. whatever i get could go to somebody else that does need it. host: that is francis in michigan. reporting from axios, 21 million people entered full

lockdown restrictions in london and wales to curb the spread of a highly infectious new strain of covid-19. organizationlth tweeted that it's in close contact with british officials on the variant. minister borisme johnson saying saturday, although there is considerable uncertainty, the new strain may be up to 70% more transmissible than the original strain of the disease. officers chief medical said the strain accounted for 60% of new cases in london over the weekend. michigan park, independent line. caller: hello? host: you are on. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am so disgusted with our

government and our congress. these are human beings we are talking about that are suffering and homeless. host: ok. caller: it is unbelievable. i went up to northern michigan where my daughter lives, and i saw these tent cities. i cannot believe this. i am 57 years old. i have never seen anything like this in my life with the people suffering and the food lines in the detroit area and the homeless. in my suburb, i have never seen people standing out on the corners with cardboard signs like i have been. much.ffering is just too maybe we should put congress on charter buses and put them on a tour around the country to

actually be in touch and see what the suffering has caused. host: ron in michigan giving his thoughts. ,his is from our twitter feed the viewer, we should not care if a few fortunate enough to not need the stimulus spend it on tv's, they are still stimulating the economy, keeping store workers employed. that's the point. large corporations goes to stocks and does not circulate beyond. petersburg, st. florida, republican line. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think this coronavirus is a big propaganda thing. the politicians have been playing this issue for months. what needs to happen is basically open the country.

give everybody a chance to work and feed themselves. you shut everything down. mostly the democratic states. they are all fleeing california and moving to texas. everyone is moving from new york to florida. they are trying to get away from it. they are not addressing the issues. is justulus package pennies compared to what you really need to do. new york will be the last call on this topic come independent line. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i cannot believe these politicians want to give us $300 and $600. are our needs have what they were nine months ago? these democrats and republicans cannot agree on anything, which is wrong. they just gave $740 billion to the military. they agreed on that. they care more about warmongers

and people killing other people than they do about people in the u.s. that are paying their bills. host: rob, last call on this topic. one more shot of moderna's distribution at the mckesson plant in mississippi. that is the scene you will see as the moderna vaccine gets rolled out to other areas of the country, joining the pfizer vaccine. usning us, and if you join this week, we want to let you know that it is authors week on "washington journal." every day this week, you will hear from a different author talk about issues related to the politics and others. coming up next, we will be joined by lance morrow. he will talk about the cultural divide in the u.s. later in the program, the borgen project, clint borgen as they

deal with global poverty and what should be done about it from a government level. those conversations coming up on "washington journal." ♪ tonight on notebook tv on ruth iswo, historian interviewed by columbia university professor sherry berman. a losspeople dream about to grand juror that only they the leader knows how to capture for their people. that is very convincing and appealing to many people, especially who feel that politics has passed them by our they feel dissatisfied. male-ness of this guide --

they are the only people who can see the future. easternht at 9:00 p.m. on book tv on c-span2. ♪ >> monday night on the ofmunicators, zooms head public policy josh kaul more on the videoconferencing company's growth during the pandemic. relationaleen a kids year -- a trip -- a transformational year for this company. we went to north thousand 300 million users in april -- north million users in april. when the pandemic arrived to be understood we had the opportunity to connect not just families, but people,

faith institutions, schools. it has been extraordinary. we worked it to scale up of -- up incredibly quickly. kallmer on the communicators on c-span2. >> washington journal continues. host: it is authors week here at washington journal. you will hear from authors of various political stripes. cheryl atkinson will join us but we begin the week with the lance morrow of the ethics and public policy center. gods the author of the book and mammon chronicles of american money. thanks for asking me. mammon,ou connect god,

and america. how do connect those? guest: in a diverse country like this, the common denominator from the beginning has been basic way.me it has been the measure of how you would evaluate success or number ofused a american stories, biographies and so want to talk about money. money, fascinating subject. a very emotional subject. i talk about the emotions of money as they manifest themselves in various evolutions of the country as it has proceeded. .hat is basically it it is money as a theme in the country.

there were other factors of freedom-religion and and many things along that line, but money is the narrative spine of the country in the way that i look at it in this analysis. the idea is to " o that hasney in viv played in the forming of american character. i am interested in american money in its connection to race fleshat people time when that people time -- flesh -- thatwhen flesh was money."

guest: it was a money anposition, yet it involved enormous moral question and a moral error of historical proportion. i talk about moses and john brown of providence, rhode island, the family brown university is named after. john was a financier in the slave business and his brother moses was one of the most important abolitionists in the early days of the country. four years they fought within years they-- for fought within the family publicly. they were a microcosm of the

country in regards to this enormous issue. the issue of race, slavery and the slave trade capture recurring as ipt money.about american a distinctive american thing is virtuous want to feel about themselves. they dislike the idea of themselves as wicked or evil. question always is how do you square american , howance or american greed do you square that with ideas of american virtue? nd mammon talking to one another, negotiating with one another over the period of

all these years. that is the tension i am talking about. mammon have been uneasy partners in the american enterprise. constantlyegotiated with the other to make the whole thing work and we still see it today. guest on can call our the lines a few want to talk to him, ask him questions about his book. in the48-8000 for those eastern and central time zones. fpr the -- for those in the mountain and pacific time zones. tot makes money unique america and its mindset?

guest: the ingredients of this country are quite various. they poured in from europe and elsewhere in the world. how do you -- by what standard do you evaluate? what is your operating moral standard? became for better and for worse became the way americans tended to judge one another and judge the value of things. it is very interesting to consider american success and failure, which i do in the book pretty ulysses grant for example, or thomas jefferson -- which i do in the book. ulysses grant for example, or thomas jefferson. how do you measure success? is it jeff bezos the most

is jeff bezos the most successful person in the world? who spent acher lifetime as an extremely effective teacher, but never makes more than above minimum wage, is that person a failure or a success? you norma's lay successful parent, but does not successfulenormously parent, but does not have much money --is money the standard of success or failure? this runs as a theme or the -- theme for the country. it is a constant for the

country. host: the two versions of the united states -- the he therical ideal -- the --cal ideal and " the two versions of the united states -- the hero look ideal and the raw reality -- thought like jacob and esau in the womb." they think they are the most wicked characters that came along are they are exceptional and brilliant and someone. -- and so on. it produces a centripetal effect, which we see in 2020 in

spades. the extremes are pushed to the extreme. it to sides pushed to the two sides get pushed to the extreme until you have what we see now, to woparate religious faiths -- t separate religious faiths. you are talking about forms of religious faith. religious faiths have to do with morals and absolutes. when people start talking and absolutes all the time, you have got real problems but a clay speaking. you have checked -- problems politically speaking. two irreconcilable

sides of the faith talking in absolute terms. host: our guest is joining us for the hour. fromve the ability to hear -- paul starts us out from england. ahead.o think america will -- guest: i'm sorry i couldn't quite hear the question. think -- in future times? guest: i hope this will calm down and we are going through an extreme phase that will lead troubles.ny toils and

amazing grace. eventually it will calm down, but the differences are very considerable. inone of the earlier callers an earlier segment was saying, when you are talking about something like abortion, it is difficult to compromise on these things. in americaany issues now, which are difficult to compromise on. is littleely there spirit of compromise in the country now. hope that through these terrible trials that are happening now that there will --e, maybe, and inclination

an inclination to work it out by forms of compromise, that a more of view might prevail. host: this is eva. caller: thank you for c-span. i think c-span offers us, the americarica --the reel aries gives us cross-sectional view of the past. i appreciate your thought intersection of religion and ethics. this a timely subject on sunday, approaching the end of a

gear where we have had and i -- a year where we have had a bifurcation of the reality into the ideal as you said, that has both sides, indifference to the pain and suffering we have had in the 21st century as health.s to the -- to never before have we had this intersectional, binary nature of how we have had to rely on faith. faith when you have had to bury loved ones you could not visit. having to experience the ethics physician,ue of a when you have to tell somebody

that they cannot come into the room, they cannot have interaction, many are not even able to have burial, they have to be cremated even against their faith. i wanted you to speak if you would, sir, if you would please morningpon this sunday of advent, where we have the full intersection of the inequality, the indifference to that inequality culturally. host: thank you for the call. guest: it is a big subject. 2020 for various reasons, we have a tremendous

convergence of many could go issues two-state -- critical issues to state the obvious. the convergence has produced , mostdous stresses unprecedented stresses -- almost becauseented stresses of the economic consequences of covid, the turbulence on the subject of race, the demonstrations and all of that, the question of donald trump, his challenge of the election results, the and orbis looming -- the enormous, looming georgia special

elections. huge.resses are people for the first time in a long time, one is hearing the secession.dea of the country ought to be broken up. the two sides in this country are so at odds on so many issues that may be it would be better just to figure out a division. this is nowhere close to being a memestic idea, but it is a in the public conversation. i wouldr to the caller, say these are very hard times as

one knows from listening to the voices coming in from around the country. lines and all of that. acutely then, we are having a debate on capitol hill about providing relief to those affected by covid. say that specific instance anything about this binary nature especially when it comes to money here in america? guest: different attitudes go into the stimulus. in my book i talk a lot about the somewhat hallucinatory quality of money. money on one hand to seems like a very definite, solid, precisely measured and real thing. on the other hand, it is an enormous fantasy and delusion, the sums of money we are talking

-- and illusion, the sums of money we are talking about now in the trillions, one after fantastic, in the literal meaning of the world fantastic. we do not quite know how this will get paid for. we do not know what is real and what is not. the binary negotiations have so much to do, less with precise cost and so on as they do with attitude, with certain social attitudes of who deserves what, should we tighten up? stable.ry and the characteristic of the moment

we find ourselves now in is radical instability because of and alsomes of need the extremes of hope -- the vaccine, the sudden, rapid development of what apparently are effective vaccines raises 2020,ospect in the year shaped, int of a v booming -- enormous, recovery. strange time. host: james in maryland running lance morrow.

maryland.live in the people on social security, their social security before it goes into the bank is taken taxes out of it, and the thing is the stimulus, they are saying the people who pay taxes will get the stimulus and those who will not pay taxes will not get a stimulus. the social security check is being taxed before he goes into the bank. i want to know will everyone on social security be getting a stimulus check? the other thing is i had a question here and i cannot remember what it is. host: i will add this to the mix. this is a viewer off of twitter who talks about the binary nature you have been addressing. --thecan cut to the chase

cultural divide is between socialism, which is god equals government and constitutional republic, first amendment and the free market." guest: that is a good point. muchod and caesar is very to the point and depending on each hasitics, characteristics of a belief system like a religious belief system, that is true. host: from sam, sam is in california, go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am an immigrant. i came to the country 30 years ago. the u.s. realized that stands for united states of america, not uniform.

that helped me understand why there are so many divisions within the country. my first thanksgiving invite, i discovered avoid religion and politics. that advice has been religiously followed. [laughter] caller: i mean the term in the other way now. we are quite united, though i am quite optimistic. we are not as divided as we think we are. anything to that? guest: i think there is something to that. there is a good deal of artificial publication that goes ---- publication provocation that

goes on. has a certain style of provocation and took her crossan its-- tucker carlsen has provocation. i have friends with whom i just don't discuss politics because we get along well superseding political things. nevertheless, the issues are big and divisive now. away.nnot just a wish it the divisions are veal and they have to do with -- our real and they have to do divisions are real and they have to do with

policy. -- theyivisions are real and have to do with policy. caller: i'm independent. i did not vote for donald trump and i did not vote for biden. look at it from my side. the democrats viciously physically attack republicans and nothing ever happens to them. the democrats have one instance where republicans attacked them and that was charlottesville. for the rest of this stuff, fbidoj, the fbi -- the ddi, thee called the

democratic department of intimidation. sat on theirourt hands with thousands of documents and all kinds of proof that this election was a giant sham. no one will look at anything. host: several different topics --what would you like our colors specifically to address -- our caller specifically to address? the democrats claim to have the high ground when they lie? guest: that is too big a subject to get into. it would call for too many complicated judgments that would need to be explained, so i think i would rather dodge that one. morrow, author of god and mammon chronicles of american money.

were you worried using a word like mammon would alienate people? guest: it's in the bible. you cannot serve both god and mammon. the title says it well. it is about this binary of the ideal and the venal in a way. good anchoron is a on the others. host: you write the country's founding idea of being both virtuous, and america's win-win ideology of itself posed to the question of the moral worth of the rich. despite what christ had to say about them, the poor never mattered much in american politics.

-- the poor have never accounted for much in america, except as sentimental characters adduced in political arguments." guest: the beatitudes say blessed are the meek, blessed are the poor. it is more difficult for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven then for a camel to pass through the i have a needle. america is a repudiation of that christian teaching because americans have never thought that poverty was the way to the kingdom of heaven. that is not the deal at all. gone afterave always with both hands and they have valued the rich and appraised the rich and admired the rich --

praised the rich and admired the rich. they have worried about the malefactors of great wealth, john d. well -- john d. rockefeller as a pirate amassing .his great fortune it is with us today in the discussions of income inequality, in discussions of these inconceivably big fortunes like jeff bezos into the rest, so it is part of the negotiation between god and mammon. americans in their attitudes towards money have never embraced the christian the moral distaste

for the rich man, have never said give up all you have and so on except for some people of course, but officially speaking, anricans do not -- they have attitude of they want money and they want to make it into that is how they judge one another very often. ambiguousit is an binary. it is a two-stroke engine. look at john d. rockefeller's money. in the first iteration, he is a pirate. a muckraking series about how what a bad, awful person john d. rockefeller is. junior, thenhn d.

a -- ivy lee,ue, a public relations guy. and in into philanthropy a constructive and intelligent way and left it behind with the legacy ofr money a affections,been with ivy lee in charge, john d. rockefeller became a delightful old man who gave out shiny dimes to people and maxims about saving your money. he became virtuous. at first he is a champion of mammon, a villain of american

life. at the end of his life he becomes virtuous and his money becomes virtuous. the rockefeller millions become virtuous. there can be a development and evolution of money. monday may evolve from being money mayvenal -- evolve from being initially venal and sinful and evolve not only towards virtue, but gentility. novels read henry james' they don't like to talk about the source of the family's wealth. talkare too genteel to about money. an elevationched above the mere venality of the

origin. this is an interesting american , but itelsewhere too is distinct in america. go ahead. , god and mammon: chronicles of american money. kicks off a ok -- week of hearing from authors on the program. to start would like off with two quick political points. theuld like to ask all democrats in georgia to pull everyone you can to the polls and elect those democrats to those senate seats. we need them. mitch mcconnell into the republican party are responsible for all the suffering you people have been having these last 10

years. if you want to be mad at somebody, be mad at mitch mcconnell and the republicans. have 73 million americans who seem like their brains are functioning on the end stage of syphilis carriers because they are delusional. they live in an alternate universe. address,u to please what you believe is happening when they cannot understand black lives matter people out marching and protesting because they are tired of being murdered by police. they are tired of being brutalized by a society that does not pay attention to the metrics that are causing their mortality. million republican people or conservatives or stowderates, they want to

-- bestow upon black lives matter the moniker of terrorist. host: let's let our guest respond to that. guest: during the first a good deali spent of time over there. this was 1988. gazald spend time in talking to palestinians about their life stories, about everything that happened to them, what they believed and so on. i would go into israel and spend talkinglling notebooks to israelis. i came to realize i understood both of their points of view. i understood where the

palestinians were coming from and what they meant and also the israeli point of view. each was coherent in its own system. there were two universes put down in the same small place in the middle east. anywayler makes my point -- in a way. his point of view is consistent and coherent and understandable from his perspective and it makes sense. -- there the time now is another point of view or there are other points of view that are perfectly coherent to those 73 million people. they are not more runs. they do not -- they are not more runs.

-- they are not morons. would point out to the color, if he studies the work of -- the studies the work of glenn larry, he will find a point of view that is from black people that is different from his own point of view, but you hear from the caller, he is quite passionate and intransigent on the subject just as they palestinians or the israelis were that i talked to all those years ago and realized they were essentially irreconcilable at that time anyway. this is the binary country we are talking about.

i would encourage the caller to thatder the possibility there is another point of view, there is another way of looking at these things. i think there is. he obviously is utterly contemptuous of the other point andiew and i understand why i understand the anger over the floyd death and breonna taylor and all that. anyway, this is where we are. host: you reference to john brown.-- referenced john a cora loriis -- " -- a corollary of the john brown rationale would ripen later on

-- that slavery was the price africans had to pay for admission to the advanced white civilization. was a sort of initiation, and apprenticeship up ship in -- an superior white ways and white -- renticeship in superior white ways." guest: i was talking about the rationales with which white people attempted to explain or justify either racism or slavery or the situation of black vis-a-vis white in america. , but not stating my view

one is one and is still point of view that is an ingredient of the controversy we have now in regards to race in this country. from luke in california, hello. caller: good morning, mr. morrow. i agree with you 100%. i think politically there is a need for republicans to create two big buckets. in one bucket you have the rich republicans and in the other get you have the poor democrats. everything in america seems to be divided now into the republicans are very smart -- and the republicans are very smart. they put in their bucket that

they are smart, they make money, they love god and hate abortion and the democrats are the opposite. i think we are totally wedged and i agree with you. you really hit on some things. psychologically, i feel like i am inferior because i have not made that much money and i think there is a psychological publication to everything you are -- psychological implication to everything you are saying. guest: the republicans have been in norma's constituency in the working class -- have an enor mous constituency in the working class. one of the problems with this country are there are so many cartoons.

we deal in caricatures. we see each other as cartoons. the whole secret of cable news is cartooning. it is a ritualized cartooning. fox news or msnbc, watch either one and what you are seeing is cartoons, ands or diversions of who -- and versions of who we are. if you use enough cartoons, people will become cartoons. at that is the danger in my mind now. cartoons.ning into one of the interesting things hast donald trump is he understood this as a performer.

he is a very at app performer and he has understood -- a very adept performer and he has understood her tuning. he has made -- understood cartooning. he has made himself a cartoon. host: let me read you what you wrote about the president -- you an american trump, -- what has understood did he prove? original hasican understood -- guest: i should start off by

saying, i do not want to hear donald trump singing like bob dylan. therek what i was saying addresses not only the the element of self invention, the ex nihilo creation of oneself. that is of course what the country has always been about. those who came from europe anyway always had the idea of a re-creation of themselves almost nihilo in the sense of out of nothing. a character like trump is a self .nvented figure like jay gatsby

in the process of that self element --here is an americans are given to exaggeration. exaggeratestry that a lot. the indian statesman had a great line -- he said americans are the most hysterical people in the world with the possible exception of the bengalis. there is an element of hysteria in a lot of american history and american responses and cartooning is a form of hysteria, it is an exuberant hysteria. lways been an element in american politics.

megan --his full act was psuerant exaggeration, pseudo-scholarly exaggerations, hysterical but unfair. most unfairf the commentators in our history. host: let's hear from david. he is in connecticut. caller: if i could continue on with your thoughts continuing -- concerning hysteria, i would like for you to comment on the hypothesis that we the poor

brother and of the world -- poor bethren of the world may able to hasten the salvation of the richer of the world by changing income tax to -- guest: how does that relate to hysteria? host: sorry, i hung up. i did not -- understand what he was driving at. host: i will venture a guess -- if you changed taxation in the united states it would change the situation. guest: ok. affectd no doubt changes. there would be ramifications in

many directions. you would have to make other considerations. change, if you like, the aesthetics or some of colorations of the rich and poor divide. that is a somewhat complicated are so because there many ramifications in any direction. i do not frankly feel qualified to talk about tax policy except , if you will, c artooning way. guest: how did wealthy presidents change relation -- americans' relationship to

money? -- host: how did wealthy presidents change americans' relationship to money? purchasen people power? bloomberg spent a lot of money in the brief hallucination of his 2020 presidential run. it proved that his money could not possibly by the office. not possibly buy the office. we have had many rich presidents. an interesting phenomenon now -- the obamas for example. the obamas are worth a tremendous amount of money. they got that in the post

-presidency. the clintons have a great deal of money. of would think possibly harry truman, who went back to independence, missouri, unpacked his bags and never sought in any way to earn any money. he lived a modest life out there. so manyve been variations on wealth and the presidency. the week that, john kennedy was assassinated, life magazine was preparing a big expose of lyndon johnson's crockes, proving he was a k, and life frantically

pulled that article at the last minute after john kennedy was assassinated that friday, november 22 because you could not have the new president of a traumatized nation being exposed crook.g a crock -- a the theme all through the trump presidency was the question of returnss and his tax and how much is he -- is he actually a billionaire or a man in profound debt and possibly profound debt to russians who are pulling puppet strings. subjects an interesting in regards to the presidency. it is hard to know what generalization to make because

there are so many print cases -- many different cases. host: when it comes to the overall theme of the book, when were you first prompted to write about this? guest: i was fascinated. i am fascinated by booker t. washington and his controversy dubois. boys -- booker t. washington was former tom among his own people. i began quarreling with myself tomegarded as an uncle among his own people. i thought of him as a great in thea leader totalitarian white south and

booker t. washington made it work. he founded tuskegee institute. the mechanics of farming with an effort to teach black people from the ground up how to be self-sufficient, how to build a black middle class, a solid, moneyed black middle-class. because money was the american nobody ignores money in the united states, nobody disrespects -- they may disrespect but they fundamentally do not disrespect money into the achievement of money. peoplea was let black get money, let them build a strong middle class. came on anddubois said that will not do, we need

talent. he was full of rhetoric and politics and he made a lot of sense. tradition, youis time aec coats are rev. find theon -- you reverend sharpton. interested in booker t. washington, so i started looking at his life and what he was all about and that got me interested in the broader question of money and the moral dimensions of politicsut of american and life in general. host: our next caller is from pennsylvania for our guest lance morrow. caller: i want to comment on the

racial problems we have in this society. people like to refer to the bible --let's go to moses. moses was an israelite, but he was raised in egypt on the highest level. when he found out who he was, he walked away because of dignity. the people for hundreds of years prayed it to be delivered from their oppressor. weas black as they call us, -- black americans as they call us, we wanted to be accepted by our oppressor. that is not going to happen. this is capitalism. the rich use ignorance to control. me thatoliceman told the police were there to protect the rich. that is their main function.

they will always keep us on the bottom. that is why there was a burning of black wall street. risewill not allow us to because poor whites need someone to look down on. guest: i understand the point. i have been around for a long time. i grew up in washington dc, which was a real apartheid town when i was young. two implied that black people mpy that blacko i people have come nowhere since 1619time, let alone since does not seem true. say that there are not

butlems in that regard, when i was young the idea of a black president was inconceivable. out.tatistics bear there has been enormous progress and the building of a black middle class and so on. i would quarrel a bit. caller's pointe view, but i think he failed to mention there has also been immense racial progress. host: this is from