much the house on c-span, the senate on c-span two. tuesday, january 5, the balance of power in the senate will be decided by the winners of the georgia runoff. david perdue and kelly leffler are defending their seats in the gop control of the chamber. the democratic challengers are jon ossoff and john warnock. hear from the candidates in the final races of this campaign 2020. live coverage on c-span, c-span.org, and the free c-span radio app. ♪ >> you are watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. c-span was created by america's television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span2 viewers as a public service. ♪

host: the u.s. house failed to deliver a christmas gift from president trump. the house will try again monday but on this christmas day and ,eginning the holiday weekend as covid cases climb in unemployed workers wonder what is ahead, it could feel to them like a pandemic lump of coal in their christmas stocking. it is friday, december 25. this is "washington journal." merry christmas. we will spend the first hour asking you about this christmas day. if you celebrate, what does it mean this year? what are your travel plans? have you been affected by the pandemic? have you gotten covid-19? what are you doing in terms of gathering with family. lines, (202) 748-8000.

that is for those of you in the eastern time zones. (202) 748-8001, mountain and pacific. send as a text at (202) 748-8032 . .n twitter we are @cspanwj looking at the front page of the "washington times." reflecting on the significance of jesus's birth as part of his christmas eve mass. he told a socially distance audience that a child makes us feel loved and teaches us how to love. church bells rang early comply with the 10:00 curfew. on the"new york times" political story and what happened in congress in a brief session yesterday, the headline, answering trump, democrats failed to pass to thousand dollar payments. the fate of pandemic aid will

remain in limbo over the christmas break after house democrats tried and failed on thursday to more than triple the size of relief checks and adjourned the house until monday when they will try again. president trump implicit threat on tuesday to reject a relief compromise that overwhelmingly passed both chambers unless lawmakers agreed to raise the $600 payment checks to $2000 has continued to royal congress while battling an already teetering economic recovery. president trump decamped for mar-a-lago on wednesday without saying another word on the bills fate leaving both parties to guess whether he intends to veto the long-delayed measure, which includes pandemic aid as well as funding to keep the government open. the result from the dysfunction is millions of americans counting on relief in the immediate future for continued unemployment checks are not going to get there barring a surprise bill signing in florida.

on thursday the government publishing office finished physically printing the 5600 page package and congressional leaders signed it before it was flown to mar-a-lago by the white house for mr. trump's possible signature. it is christmas morning. we would like to hear from you. the lines are divided by region. for eastern and central time zones. mountain and pacific time zones, --2) 748-8001 in particular mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. in particular, if you celebrate what will that look like and .eel like you're a back withsays "i am festivus grievances.

congress has outdone themselves with the giveaway disguised as a relief bill. it is a disgrace in the level of spending and the process they use to try to sneak it through. it is not new. he says my festivus waste report "s a tradition. jerry seinfeld, the comedian "maybe just for this festivus 2020, we take a pass on the airing of grievances." tampa florida, go ahead. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for everything you do for america and the people to let them have a voice. i want to wish everybody a merry christmas.

we all have to get along in this country, for god's sake. for the finell, job and the staff at c-span. host: appreciate that. to georgia. you'll hear from john. to wish allnted of the listening a merry christmas. it looks like we will have a very quiet christmas. i am 79 years old, live alone. usually our cousins and what have you get together. small groups. we are getting up in age. people,around 15 to 20 including the grandchildren. .heir daughters and son

what i do for christmas is appreciate the true meaning. give a sizable amount to one of the churches here because i cannot get out like i used to. i give them a good amount of -- this year we did about 15 families so children could have a christmas. host: how long have you been making that tradition at christmas? caller: ever since i retired and moved here in 2003. i've been able to increase it every year because of the blessings the lord has given me. me and, it does not hurt makes me feel good.

when i get up on christmas morning, especially this year, i can visualize their faces. that is what gives me great joy at christmas. i send a fried turkey to my family. we used to get together. they will deliver a plate to me and that will be a christmas. it is a little christmas, but it is a great christmas. host: merry christmas, john in georgia. -- eachcal reporter rake in over $100 million, democratic senate candidates have broken records over last two months, with each candidates raising over $100 million in the senate runoff set to determine which party controls the upper

chamber. the runoff election in georgia on january 5. we will hear from scott calling from san diego. good morning. caller: good morning, happy holidays to you and everybody watching around the globe this morning. i cannot do my usual christmas custom this year. i will tell you why. this is the first christmas since the mid-1980's i have not had a cat. it is just me, and until about a year ago it was me and the cat. the christmas tradition i cannot do because i do not have a cap, it was always a joy to put the cat under the tree and have the catcreep up -- have the creep up to the manger and knock the figurines around and leave a dead mouse. i cannot do that this year. it lives in my heart and memory and maybe santa claus will show up and bring me eigha cat.

host: far be it from me to judge anyone's tradition, but that is one of the funniest and most bizarre. caller: this is america, the land of the free and the home of the whopper. host: are you going to get a cat before next christmas? caller: i don't know. she died around the end of january this year and i've always had a cat. then the covid thing cropped up and i said i am a high risk group and health group, and i sit maybe i will just hold off maybe this will pass and i will .dopt a new cat that is what i'm hoping for. maybe in 2021. host: we want video that when you do that. thank you, scott garrett clearwater, florida -- thank you, scott. clearwater, florida. robert. caller: i've two grandkids and a

beautiful wife. this year is hard with the pandemic. i think the president's right about the 2000 bill. i think he should support the two republicans. he should deftly support them. i think the republicans will win because they are smarter than the two democrats and they spend the money that is coming in for them. year, theis a bad president should sign it and get it over with.

robert in florida. this is the associated press. sheer as of fear, not virus changes christmas." " christmas gatherings with children and grandchildren had helped her deal with her loneliness, but this year the 83-year-old will be alone due to the risk of infection from the coronavirus. in these days of the pandemic i feel loneliness and anger, expressing fears i will leave this life devoid of affection, of warmth. almost people wanted for christmas after this year pandemic uncertainty and chaos andsheer -- cheer togetherness. instead many had to a season of isolation, worried about jobs and confronting the fear of a potentially more contentious variate -- variant." host: president trump and the first lady release their last

christmas message in the white house. here is a look. [video clip] misses trump: the president and i want to wish everyone a merry christmas. president trump: christians celebrate -- more than 2000 years ago god sent his only begotten son to be with us. an angel announced the birth of our lord and savior to humble shepherds. he said "i bring you good news that will cause great joy for all of the people. today in the town of david a savior has been born to you. he is the messiah, the lord. you will find a baby wrapped in clothes and lying in a manger. at christmas we thank god for sending us his son to bring peace to our souls and joy to the world. >> this christmas is different than years past. we are battling a global pandemic that has affected all of us.

challenge, wereat have been inspired by the kindness and courage of citizens across this country. work -- teachers have worked extraordinarily hard to keep our children learning. hopenities have found new courageous first responders, doctors, and nurses, have given everything to save lives. scientists have developed treatments and vaccines. >> we are delivering millions of doses of a safe and effective vaccine that will soon end this terrible pandemic and save millions and millions of lives. we are grateful for all of the scientists, researchers, manufacturing workers, and service members who have worked tirelessly to make this possible. it is truly a christmas miracle.

>> during this wonderful time of year, we also give thanks for the brave and selfless americans who keep us safe. we are forever grateful for the men and women of law enforcement and the heroes of the united states military. we thanks holy season, god for his infinite love and we plate the light of his glory will forever shine on this magnificent land. elania in themilan entire trump family we wish you a merry christmas and a happy new year. host: more of your calls and comments coming up shortly on this christmas morning. over the past several months during the pandemic we have been whoed by dr. harold markel, is the director of the center for history of medicine at the university of she didn't, joining us -- the university of

michigan, joining us to talk about how the country celebrated christmas during the pandemic of 1918. good morning. merry christmas. welcome to washington journal. guest: good morning and happy holidays to you and all of the people watching. host: take us back to 1918. we will show headlines your organization has collected. how did the nation address the christmas holiday? endingthey were just what was the worst phase of the occurred the wave that from september to mid december of 1918. that was the most deadly period of the pandemic. placeswhile a lot of mid-january down in , there were still a number of public health officials who were warning it ain't over yet.

while no one knew, doctors did not know the virus influenza causes flu, they did know it was contagious. they did know it was transmitted by breathing, sneezing, coughing, or talking. they warned people not to gather together. host: we were showing on the will direct our viewers to the influence archive , influencearchive.org. looking at some of the headlines , it feels very present day. church services not happening, limiting shopping areas and things like that. guest: it does. historians like to remind people that history does not repeat itself precisely, but it does move in waves. this,we were assembling

it was the work of many people that worked at the university of michigan center for the history of medicine and the cdc, we never thought it might happen again. we worried about it, we plan for suchut the human mind is that you hope a worst-case scenario does not recur. here we are during this covid crisis. you are in michigan looking at the grand rapids herald on december 17, 1918. the headline, open bureau for nurses. families that cannot afford private attendance to be cared for. the latest band. they are -- the latest ban. they are talking about nurses the poor. this is after the end of world war i. did the country have the issues we are having now in terms of having enough staff to address this? staff inained medical

1918 is very different from today. a hospital room was basically a bit and you might have a nurse -- basically a bed and you might have a nurse take care of you and give you warm broth. there were no antivirals, no vaccines. a lot of nurses were just people, mostly women who do not go to college but had a minimum of training. there were a shortage of doctors and nurses to take care of. more than 10 million americans came down with influenza that year. they did the best they could. we have tohing remember about influenza is it was always known throughout the as a crowding disease, the more you crowded with other people the more likely you were to contract it.

that is an issue. host: i remember my mom using this phrase. this is a headline from one of the boston newspapers. spread by visiting a health officer." they call the flu the grip? guest: that is an old term for influenza and many other upper respiratory infections. grip,y said in france, la because it took such a hold on your rib cage that it hurt to breathe. a lot of people when they got chest infection it proceeded to a bacterial pneumonia. host: before we wrap up, you mentioned a couple of things. you talked about the end of world war i, meeting troops were coming home and wanted tv

reunite with families. at that time in the -- and wanted to reunite with families. at that time there were not annual holiday gatherings the way they are are now -- family lived nearby, not as far away. guest: that is an important point. there are no airplanes, there are trains. few people have automobiles. int people lived and stayed the home town in which they were born and grew up. family livingded in the same neighborhood or next to one another. some cases, like my own grandparents and lived onndparents different floors of the same house. talk about the in-laws coming over for dinner. they were not traveling far distances to gather for thanksgiving or christmas dinner. spread that wee

saw after the thanksgiving holidays with covid. there are too many people traveling long distances to see their loved ones. host: over the course of the pandemic in our conversation on washington journal you've talked about the history of the development of vaccines. what is your observation with the speed at which the pfizer and moderna vaccines were developed and are now being given to individuals? newly emerginga infectious disease doctors and nurses and patients have never experienced before. sciences later modern vaccine,oped an rna which are notoriously difficult to develop in only 12 months. that is a world record in the history of medicine. it is a cause for celebration, for parades, and for all kinds of honors.

bravo to the wonderful men and women of modern science who have developed this. now we have to manufacture hundreds of millions of doses, if not billions of doses, and the responsibility has shifted from our scientists, our doctors, to the american people, to the world population to roll up our sleeves and take that vaccine. that is the only way we will knock this thing out. we will commend our viewers and listeners to your archive, influencearchive.org. dr. howard markel of the university of michigan center for the history of medicine. happy holidays. guest: happy holidays to you and everyone out there. thank you. host: we continue our conversation with you on this christmas morning and how you are celebrating this year and

how the pandemic has affected your plans. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 mountain and pacific. send us a text, (202) 748-8003. a couple of those. this from fred in panama city. "happy birthday to my wife. it is her birthday. we self-isolate to protect all of us." "i cannot think of a better christmas gift than donald trump being removed from the white house. there is a santa." " we are not doing anything special, just practicing basic social distancing. if president trump would've promoted social distancing and wearing a mask instead of calling it a hoax, the united states would be on a better position on this christmas morning. mike in orlando." carol in panama city, florida "no family get-togethers. surely people can put it all a year. me and i hope to

others. merry christmas c-span staff and all listeners. stay safe all." let's hear from brian. go ahead. takoma park, maryland. you are on the air. caller: [indiscernible] we will go to new jersey. caller: i want to thank c-span for being a lifeline for this unique historic time with the presidential elections. the gentleman from san diego who cat thiscat, i lost my year but we also gained a cat in the form of our baby manco. she is a sweetheart. we are realizing how we take

ourselves for granted that we take our country for granted, but we also know that 2021 will be a turning point for people to realize how precious life is and how important our commitment to change. my wish for everybody to help get our country back on track is to buy locally to help with the economy locally as well as mom-and-pop shops so they can be supportive of small businesses. the greatest gift i could ever get was the vaccine to end covid-19 and a new president of the united states. i just turned 40 and i will tell you the greatest gift i am getting is living. i wish everyone of you a merry christmas come into all of our citizens, thank you for being a part of such remarkable moment in history no matter where you are. please stay healthy. host: to keith in richmond,

virginia. caller: god bless you all this morning. can you hear me? host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to praise god this morning and bring a little peace to the conversation. want to thank you because throughout the year i was able to get concise and truthful information about what is going on in the world. i want to thank c-span for being there for many people and communities, regardless of what our affiliation. i want us to all be able to come together today and look forward to 2021 being better. i hope and pray c-span will be there to help us bring it through. person, i want to give a scripture reference if i could to you all this morning

from isaiah chapter 9, verse 6, which says "for unto us a child is born. unto us a son is given. in the government shall be upon his shoulders. and his name shall be called goderful, counselor, mighty , the everlasting father. the prince of peace." that is what we are celebrating today and i hope we can all come together in that and i pray for this country. god knows i love this country. i pray we all come together towards more unity and put jesus first because apparently the word says the government shall be upon his shoulder. host: keith in virginia. this is the opinion piece from

michael person, syndicated columnist in the washington post. he writes if the nativity story is true, god is not simply a theological postulate. in the scripture jesus is given the name emmanuel which is hebrew for god witness. the implications are remarkable. it means there are no insignificant or pointless lives. it means the choices of an average day care eternal significance. it means a journey of meaning meaningose, a life of can begin from whatever desolate place we find ourselves. trent in louisiana. good morning. caller: let me hop on top of what you just read your i just -- i just woke up and and putting all this stuff together. this is what a majority of the american people want.

we want intelligent christian thinking. you talk about alternate realities. you have one view of read -- of reality that is materialistic, his philosophical agnosticism that it runs the central sectors of our society. beliefple have a hard that christianity is objectively true. i want to make a few points on this christmas day. i had a person sitting next to me when this disease started. she called a nobel prize winner in france who one the nobel on the nobel w prize -- he said it looked to him that it was man-made. the ruling class saw what donald trump was doing and what was happening around the world these populist movements and it is possible this thing was set in motion to not only destroy him and that movement, but this

movement around the world. host: here is the usa with their headline hungry around the holidays. they write "after surviving cancer in the middle of a pandemic, all eight-year-old leland wants for santa to .eliver is games for his xbox for his great-grandmother, it is a different story. she has been struggling to put food on the table since she quit her job to care for her great-grandson. she worked part-time as a health eight in illinois but stopped seeing patients to reduce the risk of relent getting sick -- the risk of leland getting sick. the salvation army reports 6.6 million people will come to them for support, up from 2.6 million for regular holiday season. charity leaders report they are worried about meeting the skyrocketing need."

on this christmas morning, asking how are you celebrating. are you traveling, you have people coming to visit you and how has the pandemic affected those plans? (202) 748-8000 for those of you in the eastern and central time zones. the lights of union station across from the u.s. capitol. let's hear from joe biden earlier this week as part of his christmas message. [video clip] >> reminder from a jesuit priest. he wrote "advent is a time for arousing. at first we are shaken to our depths, and then we are ready for a season of hope." as a nation, we have certainly been shaken to our depths this year. now it is time to wake, to get moving. time for hope.

we have gotten through tough times before. we will get through these difficult times as well. we will do it by coming together, by working with one we are aty being -- our best united states of america. certain things rise above partisan differences that threaten the united states. there are national security interests that require us to cooperate. i am confident we will be able to do that. after a year of pain and loss, it is time to unite, to heal, to rebuild. for all of those who are suffering right now, who had enormous loss and lie awake tonight wondering what tomorrow will bring, i say god bless you all and we will continue to push all we can to finish the job. host: we welcome your comments on social media.

a tweet from a national reporter with the washington post to sit "the post has been inundated with messages from people losing their homes who are stunned trump and congress cannot agree on another aid package. several broke down crying." john tweets "i hope children waking up on a christmas gift under the tree to bring them joy . a lot of parents are under lockdown." mem sam in california, "to this year has a feeling of hope. the vaccine, trump losing, i just have hope in my heart again." markel, hemissed dr. talked about the 1918 pandemic. where was the president at that time? i should not have read that because he is not with us. you can check out the influence archive. 1918 was willin

joe wilson -- was woodrow wilson. in kentucky we hear from bill. caller: good morning. merry christmas. i want to take this opportunity to tell everybody make sure you get the vaccine because it works. there are ways to protect yourself that are not readily available to the public. i taught molecular physics for 27 years at the university level. i understand something about how these work. for all intents and purposes this thing is airborne. it does not work its way into these nursing homes -- it can come in on your clothes, your hair. a lot of different ways. one of the effective ways i have bottle i get a squirt and put pure alcohol in it and spray your hands with that when you are in or out of a place.

this is a living entity. it does not think but it behaves in certain ways. if it is blown onto a box and you pick it up in a store you have to be careful. get the vaccine because it works. -- the people who raised me were alive in 1918 and they used to bundle up. they lived in manhattan. they used to go onto the roof and sleep when it was called. host: sue in columbus, ohio. caller: good morning. thank for waking us all up. since this pandemic started, i've lost everything. kidslly i am with my

throughout the holidays. i have lost my job, i lost everything. i lost my kids. the only thing i have is my woman, who i have been blessed with. as far as the vaccine, people are scared to take the vaccine because they do not want to believe. you have everybody who lost everything they were expecting some type of stimulus check. i never received the first one. i do not care about it. there are a lot of people less fortunate, the minorities in the urban communities that need help. vaccinethey trust the if they cannot trust the government? host: in terms of the vaccine, you said they do not know who to trust or what to believe. how do you change that and reassure people about a vaccine? caller: do what is right. do what is right by the american people. do what is right. rebecca, fayetteville,

north carolina. caller: first of all, i am a veteran of the u.s. army. i served 21 years in the military. i've been all over the world and back. i have seen some things a lot of people have not seen and heard of. the most disgusting thing this year is to hear how our president turned around and knock people down. if people were in the military like me and went to russia, belgium, france, england, kuwait, and if they saw some of the things that went on over there he would be sympathetic to our people. he is so selfish for himself. when it comes to vaccinations,

vaccines, we had to take them to go overseas. different countries we went into. i am not afraid of that. the only thing i'm afraid of is we have so many politicians in these positions now. they do not know anything about the other country cultures. they make mistakes and they do not know. most other people in other countries do not take it lightly when you threaten them. they do not. host: eastern and central time zones, (202) 748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202) 748-8001. spending time asking you about this christmas day. how your plans have been affected by the pandemic. more of your calls coming up. i want to play you the comment of the reverend robert jeffers of the first baptist church in

dallas, president trump supporters and his comments about christmas on fox news. [video clip] 88 percent of religiously unaffiliated people are planning to celebrate christmas this year do 10% of them say they will more spiritual reflection than ever before. there is a hunger for the message of christmas. i think this pandemic, the unprecedented political strife we have seen in our country are reminders this world is broken and we are powerless to fix it. god can fix it. somebody said man's greatest need had been for money god would have sent us an economist. if the greatest need would've been for education, god would've sent as a teacher. our greatest need is for forgiveness and that is why god sent us a savior. the angel said to the shepherds unto you is born a savior who is christ the lord. that is what christmas is about. host: another view on christmas

from reverend jesse jackson. this is an opinion piece in the chicago sun-times. that line "the true meaning of christmas is of vital importance." becomes a"christmas stressful holiday rather than a prayerful holy day, yet jesus taught us to focus on the most vulnerable among us. this is more vital today. poverty is rising, not falling. food kitchens are overwhelmed. hard-working people have lost their jobs through no fault of their own. more are deemed essential workers, risking their lives. many receive the lowest paid in the fewest benefits. jesus demonstrated the shauna hsing -- the astonishing power of faith, hope, and charity and showed people of conscience can make a difference even against the most powerful oppressor and demonstrated the strength of summoning our better angels rather than our fears.

this christmas this is surely a message to remember." from jesse jackson. .ckeesport pennsylvania good morning to kathy. you are on the air. caller: merry christmas. the way i am spending christmas, this is the first time in 51 years my husband and i've have been married for 51 years, this is the first time i did not put a tree up. i do have a beautiful manger scene in my living room. i have that on a shelf. snowing,tside, it is it is beautiful outside. i am appreciating that. family, i told them not to come down, they do not live in this area, but i told them to stay away this year because my

son-in-law is a position and he has patients who have the covid. i son lives near d.c. and told him to stay away because he has friends down there. enjoying the day. my husband is still sleeping and i am just watching your show. host: glad you are. merry christmas to you. caller: you to. -- you too. host: carol in michigan. good morning. go ahead. caller: i just wanted to voice my opinion about the pandemic. i am here alone and i will not be leaving, but there is a lot of people putting a lot of this blame on trump. i listened to the medical people about wearing a mask and social

distancing. i think for them to blaine trump, he is not 8 -- for them to blame trump, he is not a medical person. i think it is wrong. i will be happy to be through christmas this year, by myself. next year i hope to be with my family. thank you. host: thanks. that is probably the sentiment of a lot of people. back to a little bit of history from usa today. echoes 1944 when a blue -- when a bleak judy garland song captured the mood. radio stations that featured christmas songs will plate many times and by many different artists a song from a popular film from 1944, "have yourself a merry little christmas," sung by judy garland about a family

forced to move from st. louis about her father's transfer to new york. her garland plays a song to younger sister two her about the move. unlike most christmas songs that are cheery but emotionally shallow, this song captures the pain and sacrificed so many families were enduring in that dreadful winter more than seven decades ago. although the war is not mentioned, it is a song uniquely ,uited to christmas 2020 overshadowed by death and grief and uncertainty. they write that as we enter the new year of 2020 with anticipation and hope, so did americans in 1944 watching the triumph of the allied armies in western france and the headlong retreat of the german army to the safety of the heavily fortified line on the french-german border. one can almost give credence to the hopeful post of some soldiers that they would be home by christmas." "that hope wass

-- i the battle of the bulge which was fought just about the time audience was were seen meet me in st. louis. with american forces into salai -- in disarray and final victory -- they write the words judy garland sang as they gazed wistfully out of the home they would be forced to leave express the feelings of americans in darkened theaters. someday soon we all be together if the fates allow. until then we will have to muddle through somehow, so have yourself a marital christmas now." in colorado, this is howard. caller: thank you for your show. i have watched it for years. we are living in very awkward times. virus and whate i perceive as everything. bottom line.

first off, i will do this, i hate to do it. african andr-old white. different viewpoint. virus is said with the most of us are going to get it. the circumstance comes down to whether you have a comorbid illness, which can complicate -- which can be complicated by covid. that would be a very bad scenario. people are dying. models they put out said there would be 2 million to 4 million dying. it is closer to the numbers related to a basic virus. worldwide epidemiologist, microbiologist and virologist have said that what we have been doing with the masks and the

poor and teen is not going to happen. -- and the quarantine is not going to happen. i see it as controlled by fear. when this started i looked into it. i asked myself two questions that made my brain hurt. one of the questions was when we first were getting this is if you get it, quarantine yourself for 14 days at home and they said do not go to the hospital, do not judy or dr.. doctor?t go to your it is so people, why would they tell you that -- if it is so evil, why would they tell you that? one other question. how many of us know people who have died, neighbors who have died, families who have died? final comment. in my opinion, i hate to say it. i'm 65 years old. seen the true eye

of evil. it is trying to control us and destroy our president. merry christmas. sorry to go on that awkward way from bad to good. merry christmas, everyone. host: here is stephen florida. good morning. -- here is steve in florida. caller: merry christmas is the first thing we would like to say. how are we celebrate in christmas different than last year or previous years? large feast and invite family and friends, 40 to 60 people at our house. this year we only had six people. it has been very stressful, depressing, and a lot of people are like why are we going through this, why can't we get it done? some of the things i would like to point out.

the media is controlling a lot. what you see on facebook and twitter, i do not believe all of the stuff is true. a lot is filtered. with the pandemic, with the virus, they said you have to quarantine, you will do the math. people have done that. some of it is working, some is not working, i work in the service industry. i am a small business owner. i go into the hospitals, i work at the nursing homes, i worked in the restaurant industry. i am a mechanical contractor. the thing that bugs me the most wethe fact when trump said will have a virus medication in one year, a vaccination, guess what, it has been less than one year. they will not give him credit. the stimulus package for the first round, it goes to the american people. it went to other countries, it

went to other things that did not help any of the american people. $1200 for a family? no good. now they are saying they want to give $600 but we want to spend $25 million in other countries for transgender studies. 1.5 million for lizards to be on a treadmill? our congress needs to have a reset. they need to think about the american people. host: the house will be back on monday to take up the effort to pass $2000 in stimulus checks as the president had called for in his video. a tweet from senator tim scott of south carolina who says "i am missing giving out toys to kids with north charleston police officers and firefighters. the covid-19 pandemic has taken so much from us because i still have hope because my savior lives. may your day be filled with love, peace, and joy."

tucson, arizona, good morning to gene. johnsonthis is gene from tucson, arizona. host: merry christmas, go ahead. they know me as gino. i'm here to say to you i am very sorry our president is treating the country the way he is. i'm a veteran. for a person that was in office for four years to not know what go to this plan and then his golfing tournaments and ignore the people, we have people in the street in tucson that are hungry, that need help. if he cannot sign the bill, why not veto it. here.d help out

i am 80 years old. i have a big family. johnson played for the broncos. i would love to send everyone in tucson, we miss you, and my house is always open. i love you. thank you for this conversation. host: thank you and merry christmas. akron, ohio. go ahead. caller: good morning. merry christmas, america. i am sitting peacefully watching the program. i am enjoying the fact we got about six inches of snow last night. that we have made it through 2020. i am doing what i usually do, which is stay-at-home. i am 71. i try not to take chances.

2021 soking forward to much. i am so glad we will have a new thinkstration in and i america will be much better under joe biden. is some ofor 2021 the racial disharmony, the problems we experienced this last year are talked about and worked on. that is all i have to say. merry christmas, america. host: same to you, linda. a couple of comments on social media. "unfortunately we still do not have enough nurses. my nurse's friends employer up their bonus rate to $50 an hour for those who commit to more hours. my friend is exhausted and not tempted."

this says "when we learned about the virus scientist worked around-the-clock, the president talk to us every day. why did that stop on memorial day when the riot started? christmas helps us remember." six to seven inches of fresh snow mix up for a lot of this year's disappointments. merry christmas to you and my local va hospital from harry, vietnam vet and mt. lebanon, pennsylvania. joe in fort myers florida. "i've never seen the food lines of people starving in florida and texas and other red states. trump and mitch mcconnell are only interested in what they can do for themselves or their rich buddies. a sad situation." the hill reporting about what may be ahead on january 6 for the electoral college account, "gop seeks to avoid messy fight." senate republicans say mitch mcconnell will reach out to senator elect tommy to upper

ville of alabama in an attempt to avoid a messy floor fight over finalizing the results of the electoral college about. republican whip john thune said ervilleders will tell tub that voting to suspend the tally will be futile. "ultimately every senator will have to make their own decision about that but i think there will be people reaching out just to find out what he is going to do." e'sne said of tupervill intentions. kendall county, illinois. hello, bob. caller: merry christmas. i would like to thank president trump for his philosophy of avenge. i believe he was right in saying christians are fools, idiots, chmucks that i would like to thank him for leading them to death and slaughter.

host: fredericksburg, virginia. louise. caller: good morning. merry christmas. i would like to wish a merry christmas to people in the and the prisons that have not received the antibody regeneron, of which we have half a million treatments sitting on the shelves because they are not using regeneron, which is a therapeutic that president trump has pushed for seven months. i would like to wish, in my own cases. we had 83 41 in the nursing home. 47 in the prison. this is the third largest county in west virginia. those five people that have

covid are quarantined. nobody is in the hospital. i would like to hope there is a merry christmas for the people in the nursing home and in prisons that are so sick and cannot get regeneron. i do not understand why all over this country is sitting on shelves because the counties and the states and the governors refuse to use it. i am very sorry for that. host: front page of the new york times this morning. trade deal.eu seal britain and the people struck a hard-fought trade agreement, settling a bitter divorce that stretched over four years and setting the terms for a post brexit future as close neighbors living apart. the deal, which needs to be ratified by the british and european parliaments came

together in brussels after 11 months of grinding negotiations culminating in a last-minute haggle over fishing rights that stretched into christmas eve a week before the year end deadline. in california, good morning to donna. caller: donna in california. thank you for taking my call. host: merry christmas to you. caller: i have a few things to say. earlier a lady in north carolina mentioned americans do not travel. i agree. nobody pays attention to culture. ignorance as far as the american public goes of different cultures and attitudes. intolerance. that is the first thing. second, there are things to do to help yourself when you are wearing a mask. do not touch your mask because then you contaminate your hands.

you should adjust your mask with stripes, not like television newscasters are always adjusting their mask, touching their nose. that is wrong. nobody talks about that. when you wash your hands for 20 seconds, that is good. get under your nails. if you use alcohol, 70% is necessary to kill the bugs. last thing. somebody said trump is not to blame, it is not trump's not his fault for this virus. fault. is partly his butid not create the virus, it was his lack of response to -- virus.postwar woodward recorded him talking about playing the virus down and it will go away and magic and

all that kind of stuff, injecting bleach. it is partly trump's fault. that is about all i have to say. thank you. merry christmas. host: merry christmas to you, donna. in washington journal" next. all week we have been talking with others. who ist is daniel allott who about his book "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." clarence page will be with us to talk about where we are as a country, what is ahead on this christmas day 2020. >> coming up sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on real america, jaclyn kennedy's weeklong goodwill trip to asia in 1962, which documents

the former first lady stuart india and pakistan. at 8:00 p.m. on the presidency, take a virtual tour of the do presidential library and museum in kansas, show kinky the legacy -- showcasing the legacy of the president. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span 3. covid-19 relief legislation approved by congress and coronavirus vaccines being administered, use our website c-span.org/coronavirus to follow the outbreak. watch our searchable video anytime on demand and track the spread with interactive maps all at c-span.org/coronasvirus. >> you're watching c-span.

c-span was greeted by america's cable in 1979. we are brought to you by these companies who provide c-span as a public service. "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined by daniel allott, opinion editor at "the hill" and author of the book "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." you for being with us on this christmas morning. >> thank you for having me. host: what was the reason you wrote the book? guest: the 2016 election exposed a real disconnect between the washington media and much of the country. very few journalists and posters predicted trump's rise. it seems to me. if you are interested in getting to know what motivated his voters. deeperd to go a little

and shortly after the inauguration in 2017, i left my job at a d.c. political magazine and set out on the road traveling and living in nine counties scattered across nine states from florida through the rust belt out to the upper midwest and utah and california. for three years i spent the better part of that time and myself in communities -- embedding myself in communities, staying in people's homes, i hoped getting to a deeper level of understanding because of that. host: let's take a look at some of the nine counties you chose all over the country. howard county, iowa. orange county, california. grant county, west virginia. roberson county, north carolina. salt lake city, utah. what was behind the selection of

these counties? allt: i wanted to first of get some of the pivotal, crucial states that were most important in understanding the 2016 election. coincidentally, there were important for understanding what happened in 2020. yeah florida, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and those important swing states, michigan. if you combine all nine counties, is hard to get the full story of what is going on in the country. out of 3000 some counties, i immigration of a decline in manufacturing, what have you most of grant county, west virginia, a very pro-trump county and that is why i try it -- chose it. a chapter became about the opioid epidemic because that issue was so stark and had such a devastating effect on that community. when you combine the nine counties, i think it is a good

cross-section of what has happened in the country over the last three or four years. host: it must have and cognizant of on the road journalism, like a better term, studs terkel and even charles kuralt tv series that he turned into several books, on the road series he did. >> the book is premised on the idea in order to truly understand, yet the spent a lot of time and talk to a lot of people and listen and observe. i think not going in -- trying not to approach each place with my own conclusions already drawn, but sitting back and observing for a while, building relationships, building relationships, building trust. there is a deep distrust of the media throughout much of the country. when a reporter comes in from washington, not a lot of people are going to open up right away. it took some time. over time, over years, i was able to build up an amount of

goodwill and trust. host: you say you state in people's homes. logistically, how did you arrange these? how did you show and decide to spend time or do you just wing it as she went along? guest: a little of everything. usually before entering, i need the key issue so i would reach out to people who were community leaders. i was fortunate to have any people in many of the places that were what i would call my fixers and they would set me up with interviews, give me access that i would not normally have. there is definitely a learning curve involved. some places that i went to, like robinson, people were easy to talk to. year places, it took until two until i found -- felt like i truly was starting to understand the different issues going on in that place. just being patient as well and keep showing up and keep

engaging. as ouraniel allott guest. his book is "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." we welcome your calls and comments. we are dividing our lines by political party. how long did the total effort, the trip part of it, before the actual writing, how long did that take you? guest: i set out in february 2017 and my last trip was march 2020. i got to michigan governor shut down the schools and nobody was doing any meetings or anything. it was just over three years. obviously, a lot happened between march the election. if you read the book, i was able to hit on a lot of the key dynamics we sell play out on election day. host: how much did your opinion

change about the trump voter, trump supporters over that stretch of time you were traveling? guest: i would say somewhat. i have a lot of friends across the spectrum and family members, so it was not a surprise. but i felt like giving a voice to people who often feel like they have not had one was he and to try and do right by some of these places -- a lot of times i wanted to communities, think of. county, pennsylvania. a pretty famous swing county. the minute i got there, everyone from the can executives and the mayor down to just people on the street, talking about the media came in after the election and completely misrepresented what our county is about. we voted for obama and then trump, so obviously, it is a really dire situation and doom and gloom. i thought the media was not

characterizing, depicting them accurately. they just said, please, hang out, spend some time and report accurately on what is going on. that is what i heard over and over can from different communities. host: you right under the book you say geography more than race or class has become the crucial dividing line. that is partly because rural and urban americans and grace -- and brace different values. rural people tend to value tradition, familiarity, having deep community ties. it will often forgo more lucrative job opportunities and cities to be closer to family. a huge gap between rural and urban american with each side hardly recognizing each other. couldn't you say certainly suburban people or suburban people value family, ties, tradition and having community ties to those suburban or urban areas? guest: sure, plenty people in ofan america -- i value some

those things, too. i think if you spent a lot of time in urban and rural america, you see how different they are. completely different from the food they eat to the entertainment to the way they dress. now the jobs they have. and increasingly, the political candidates and parties they vote for. at the national level, the urban areas are not increasingly the domain of democrats and rural for trump and republican. for trump, a lot of people did not quite understand what that appeal was for people in rural america. the word i heard over and over again five farmers and other people in rural america in regards to trump, he seemed to acknowledge the work they do as being important and their values should not be mocked or looked down upon. often they felt like democrats were doing that. even among a lot of former obama voters, a lot of the places i

traveled were in the upper midwest where obama did really well in those places swung to trump. went further for trump in 2020 because a lot of them feel like the democratic party has moved too far to the left for them. i remember -- you mentioned iowa , one of my favorite places. the only county in america that voted for barack obama by more than 20 points in 2012 and then swung to donald trump by more than 20 points in 2016. it's 141 points. rural county. two stoplights lights, fewer than 10,000 people. over 99% white. a lot of people i spoke to were obama voters and felt disappointed. the way one man put it, joe walker who i talked to probably a dozen times over the 3.5 years whenever i would visit, he is a

registered democrat, two-time obama voter, voted for trump. 2017, where the democrats are now, that is where -- where i am now, the democrats were 30 years ago. he feels like the party has left them behind. republicans now align more with him. he has not changed. because the democrats have moved too far to the left. that is a story i heard over and over again in rural parts of the country. us.: daniel allott is with let's get to your calls and comments. massachusetts, go ahead. democrat line. theachusetts, you're on air. we will go to roger in middletown, ohio. roger, go ahead.

caller: good morning. merry christmas. i will have to speak quick. they were complaining about there are no jobs. i am an entertainer. i drove here to pennsylvania. jobs on every corner. stopped in restaurants. they need help. i went from pennsylvania to illinois, jobs every place. begging people to go to work. truck drivers. i went to nashville and all the way up and down the road, job, jobs, jobs. i came back from nashville to ohio again. jobs, jobs, jobs. there are plenty of jobs. i am a korean veteran. i just turned 87 years old. fixed the v.a. so if the v.a. does not take care of me, i can go to a hospital and it will get taking care of me. the lady that was on not too long ago as a woman preacher, she said she has known trump

since he was 17 and never known him to tell a lie. he has never taken a dive for the president's job. beat theen there -- he cleanse. if you go to the democrat party, the kennedys and the clintons -- host: roger, ohio, thank you for your comment. daniel allott, any thoughts on his opinion? guest: he mentioned trump not taking a salary. i was surprised how often heard from people here did not take a salary. showed he was working for the people and not doing it for the money. host: you started this in 2017. hillary failedy in those areas? guest: i was surprised how many

trump voters well figured were all in on trump, mainly it was because i did not want to vote for hillary. that is part of why joe biden was able to issue come on character and personality issues. he was better than hillary. a lot of people could not take her character and personality were open to biden. a lot of people hated hillary and a lot of people hate donald trump, but not a lot of people hate joe biden. i think that helped him have a moderate personality and helped him win over some of those voters. host: next up, randolph, york, pennsylvania. caller: morning. i don't know how this works. c-span.me being on i was listening and they were talking about --

the: make sure you mute television posted go ahead with your question or comment for daniel allott. caller: mute my what? host: the volume on your tv. we're going to go to sherman oaks, california. republican line. caller: good morning. merry christmas. i wanted to make a comment for daniel. i am a first time caller on c-span. in 2016, we the people come and i think we the people only, signed, sealed, delivered the presidency. two, and that has not spent 10 seconds in his life in public service. that is because the democratic party failed us. we wanted a change. but they did not give them a chance. created the punches, so as the great economy got us a created as aso

great economy, got us a vaccine. this time around, we the people feel a little cheated because of what has transpired. trumpwe the people voted in 2016, it is hard for us to believe all of the sudden, and that we fired in 2016 all of the sun became the darling of america four years later. any comment from that? guest: i think it is common month trump voters. thus, among voters. they felt they were two. trump himself said that with all of the investigations in the impeachment, was only given a shot. that will set him up well if he wants to run again to say, hey, we need one legitimate term.

trump questioning the election results, i think showing -- broadcasting his voters that he is fighting. i think that point cannot be made enough. for a lot of conservatives and other trump voters have felt for many years they have not had a ,eader who fought for them convinced a lot of his supporters that the attacks on him are actually attacks on them. and he is standing up for them and fighting. and the fact he is been challenging the election results in making these allegations of massive voter fraud, i think deep down he probably knows not is going to work but he wants to convey to his base and the country he is fighting once again and not going to go down without a fight. i think that will set him up well if he wants to run again.

you'reonnected folks staying in touch with, reliably conservative publication national review writing in the latest edition disgrace after defeat right "all in all, the worst thing is that in this presidency and the worst exit of the defeated president in u.s. history. in effort not less infamous for being incompetent." guest: there are not a lot of trump voters who aren't following his lead on this. this is something in terms of the idea there is massive voter fraud going on, yet understand the context of many, many years this has been something -- a couple of stories in the book about conservatives that millions of voters in eligible voters are voting in elections. people,immigrants, dead people voting twice. it is happening. so trump -- this was not

something he made up. he was sort of touching on something that conservatives have long else. was goingng felt this on. it is damaging to the country. themis base, he's telling what they want to hear. host: democrats line, this is don. caller: i am not a trump supporter but i would acknowledge a lot of positive policies i agree with. the problem with trump is -- imagine you have a star basketball player that comes on your team and gives you 40 but heand you went a lot doesn't come to practice half the time, he does not listen to the coach, so on and so forth. what happens is, he poisoned your program. that is what he is done of the

country. he has got some things done, but otherost, pitting each against each other? guest: i like that analogy. before the election, i would say, people vote thinking about trump's policies and he will win because i think their largely popular. did whatel not only he they supported, but set out a clear agenda and pursued and achieved a lot of it. among the few people who changed their minds about trump did not vote for him in 16 but told me that would be in 2020, that is the thing i heard over and over again. out an agendaset and accomplished it so i will vote for him. but the caller also hit on the character issue and the personality. if people are focused on trump's personality when they vote,

character, he will lose. i think that is why he lost. among the few voters who voted for him in 2016 and tell me they would not be in 2020, that is the thing i heard. i think about the woman i met in which kenny, california named lacey, young woman in her 30's who voted for trump, voted for obama before, and then said, look, i agree with a lot of what trump has done but i can't vote for him. the metaphor was maybe after four years of hurricane, it is time for a light drizzle. that is who she voted for in joe biden and i don't think she was alone. 's book "onl allott the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." you wrote it ahead of the 2020 election and wrote, touched on this woman's ago saying in the book -- moments ago site and of the book, if trump loses, it will be because of his defects of character, his impulsiveness, in addition to detail, petty

cruelty, and routine dishonesty have turned often exhausted voters who might otherwise supportive most of the tension between trump's policies and personality as been a dominant theme throughout this book. think about a voter, in robinson county, a man named mark a member of a native american tribe. voters16 obama trump that i followed for the three years. of the 16, 14 voted for trump again. mark was the only one of the 16 who told me in the final minute he would be voting for joe biden. it was not on policy. he agrees with a lot of what trump has time. it was based on personality and what he focused on, the line. he told me, look, -- every time

i talked to mark come he was a great interview because he was sort of ambivalent. he describes his feelings for trump as being a pendulum swinging from negativity to to positivity. when i spoke to him and april he said, look, right now i'm swinging toward negativity oh, if yoump said, want to get the coronavirus test, can get it. mark's wife was not able to obtain the test. for mark, it was more evidence of trump's line. he said -- she wanted a reason. a reason toi want vote for trump. at the end he said, i can't do it. after vote for biden. 2024, if trump chooses to run come due think american supporters can look past those character defects? guest: it depends on a lot of things. it depends on what joe biden and

the democrats do. if the overreach and go too far to the left -- one thing i kept hearing in middle america over and over again, the democrats are moving too far to the left. joe biden, jenna campaign, signaled he would be doing that as well. the campaign, signaled he would be doing that as well. trump's policies are fairly popular. if he continues to embrace the american first and the social conservatism, i think you'll have a good shot. his supporters are not going anywhere. -- republicans are saying, if we can get another candidate who has the trump agenda but without the character flaws, personality quirks, we could win. i think there is a charisma with trump that is underestimated. there is not another politician in america who can bring together 20,000 to 30,000 people on a random evening in rochester.

maybe barack obama, but certainly not mike pence or nikki haley or another republican. if he wants to run again, i think the supporters will be there for him. host: jacky, missouri, independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on how we are focused on donald trump and his endeavors, that we see racism at its core. we seek donald trump and joe biden fighting for power. we have to wait, some of us who are unemployed due to no fault of our own comic get to sit back and watch this. people write books. this is not donald trump's america. this is america. think about it, a lot of the media, a lot of book writers, storytellers are focused on what donald trump does and you all

can start with your narrative on trying to unite the country. donald trump come after he gets out of office, yes on issues that he will not be what you all want him to be, the savior. merry christmas to all. stay safe. i grace be with god. host: daniel allott? guest: with the first vice president-elect is a woman and a minority, that is progress. namealler mentioned the "trump's america." there's a lot of debate over the name of the book. is it trump's america? so much focus of our culture and politics on trump that it is his time, and that is why we titled the book "trump's america." host: i want to go back to the nine areas you covered in researching for the book, you mentioned howard county in our.

they're places like ridge county, california, yuri county, pennsylvania. how often did you encounter minorities, in particular, african-americans who were trump supporters? guest: quite often. i try to seek out people who are different. i would look for immigrants or people of color and i did find quite a few minorities and immigrants as well who supported trump. we saw in the election results this year, a lot of people were surprised how will trump did relative to previous public and candidates among latinos and asian americans, among black men. do -- a lott had to of reporters and people on the coast are a bit more sensitive to some of the rhetoric that trump -- some of the things he says that can be taken as racist. a lot of people in the

communities are willing to overlook them. i spoke to a lot of immigrants, people from the middle east to said, look, i like this guy -- based on policy. i am not surprised, for instance, among hispanic americans. on policy, they agree with a lot of what the republican party is offering. latinos who come to the u.s. or were born here tend to be very entrepreneurial, small businesses, enterprising. that aligns with the republican message. they're socially conservative on abortion, same-sex marriage, religious freedoms. so they align with trump on a lot of these issues so they're willing to overlook some of the rhetoric. host: michael on the democrats line, crosby, texas. caller: i am a veteran. socialu talk about conservatives, then you talk about trump's base.

host: mute the volume on your television. go ahead with your comment. caller: and a veteran. i am in texas. there are a lot of people down here don't like trump. don't like his policy, whatever that is, because nobody said, ok, i'm going to do this. he said, i am an american first born ofrica was immigrants. where you going to lock ?verybody out in and you talk about trump. then they start talking about obama. obama wasn't running. talking about biden. biden not on the ticket. what about his kids? host: daniel allott, the president

throughout his four years in office, played off against the former and compared himself to the actions taken by the obama administration during the course of his eight years. how often did that come up in conversation with the folks you few.d to? guest: quite a i think the most fascinating group of voters i talked to work the former obama voters who went to trump. 16 now them in six of the nine counties work obama-trump counties. a lot of people swung from one to the other. very different candidates and presidents in terms of policy and personality. what i found -- among those voters, a lot had felt they were duped by obama. he promised to be reaching across the aisle work with republicans, would heal the racial divide.

according to them, they felt he did not do that. they were primed to be open to trump's candidacy when he started running. host: next up, richard, maine. caller: good morning. merry christmas. voted to explain why i for donald trump. when obama got into office, he killed the military. he murdered them. i lost my medical benefits and everything. eight years later, trump gets into office. what you know, i got my benefits back. now i have a 70% disabled pension coming from the government. it is more than my social security. that is why i love donald trump. i'm afraid if biden gets in there, he is going to defund the military again and i will be right back where i was.

>> which you almost died. caller: i almost died a few weeks ago and it was able to go to a civilian hospital because of the law that donald trump passed. i was taking care of and i am still here to love donald trump. host: daniel allott, your reaction? guest: it is a common view among the obama-trump voters. some studies based on 2020 that found about 90% of the obama-trump voters -- it was a demographic that biden felt he could win because these are people who voted for her presidential ticket with his name on it before. but a lot of people i talked to, just like the caller said, happy with trump's policies. but also the idea -- one of the key findings in the book, and this was reinforced in the 2020

election, how few people changed their minds about donald trump with very few exceptions among hundreds of people i talked to. i raced a couple of the exceptions. a very few. most people, if they supported trump in 2016, supported him again in 2020. if they opposed him in four years ago, even more opposition this time. howe, that underscores primal our politics have become. used more"tribal" is and more in terms of politics. it is a loyalty to your own group or tribe, inside or tribe to be defended at all costs. outside the tribe cardi b chandra even -- outside the tribe are to be shunned or even attacked. the inability to allow for any nuance. trump was either all good or all bad.

never in a welcoming was good on this but that on that. it was one way or the other. i was struck by in more formal interviews, i would talk to people and run through my questions. one question, as i was talking to a trump supporter, i would say, you support the president but is there anything you don't like or his policies you don't support? talking to a trump critic i would say, you don't under president, but is there anything you admire or his policies you support? often, this was the point in the conversation, having a free-flowing discussion and that would come to a halt for about 30 seconds. struggle to think of anything that contradicted their overall assessment of trump. tribal we haveow become. even though there are very few people who change their minds about trump among the hundreds i talked to, it is not people's views of the president changed, it was they became more extreme

and deeply entrenched. host: have you heard back from any of the people you interview that i've read the book and said he pretty much gotten their story right or critical of the way you have been presenting their views in the book? guest: i had one or two that took a few issues. for the most part, people feel i covered them and their counties accurately. a lot of people said, i still don't know where you stand yourself. are you pro trump or anti-trump? they want to know my tribe. along the way, i was writing articles. ori had been misreporting misquoting people or misrepresenting these communities, that would not have allowed me to build up the trust, credibility, and goodwill that i needed in order to get the final story. it was a focus of mind to take my own views and biases -- which

i have -- and try to lead them to the side and let my writing be a voice and represent who these people are. host: you mentioned not being a member of the tribe. is it your sense, the people you interviewed anyway, as a member of the media, you are a member of a tribe? guest: yes. i had to break that down. i had to convince people, and it took a while, that yes, i am part of the media but you can trust me. there's only one way to do that. to keep showing up. to write about people accurately. as i was writing articles people and they come ok, maybe i can trust him. introducedat, i was to more more people. yuri, pennsylvania, a progressive couple, dale and darlene, invited me to their home many times. there in the book.

i was trying to get an interview with one of dale's friends who worked at this tool shop and delves convinced it was a trump supporter considering voting for democrats the next time around. because there were so few people who were switchers, i wanted this interview. every time i would talk to dello and say, do you think you can get me his number or would you introduce me? finally in march 2020 after we built up a level of report interest, i asked him the final time and he called his friend right then and there and spent a few minutes commencing him i was somebody -- even though i was in the media -- that could be trusted. i got to talk to his friend the next day and find the real story. but it took two or three years to do that. host: daniel allott, author of the latest book "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." to jacksonville, florida, independent line. caller: thank you very much. and i say merry christmas

am a 41 year watcher of c-span when it began in 1979. am also vietnam vet. let me say what i think mr. allott, with all due respect them, what is book is up for those of us who are not trump supporters. donald trump tapped into the deep-seated, extremely deep-seated racial -- i would -- oftred african-american people, in particular, minorities to some extent, where we are still the most excoriated racial group of people in america. he touched a nerve in white america that was always there since the inception of slavery

we were brought over in 1620 when he was elected president. this man is not only a liar, has proven to be a liar. he is also a criminal. that is also a part of american history. i know a lot of people out there would disagree with me but i think with my service under combat and seeing my best friend die in vietnam, i am able to talk about this in an honest way of what african-americans and i think this book has just reinforced, maybe a small thank you for bring it up, but i felt that way for a long time. donald trump was the one who escalated it. he is what america will find out if he's ever coming back into office again, the equivalent -- i know, bill, c-span does not like to hear this -- he is the equivalent of what germany was in 1933 that was changed by adolf hitler and the german people are still suffering from what the identity israelis in jewish people during a

particular time. host: thank you for your service. daniel, your response? guest: i think the hitler comparison detracts from the prior point, how divided we are. look, i'm a white guy that went out and talk to a lot of people so take it with a grain of salt. notuld not say race did play a factor for anyone. i am sure it did. but i would say it had more to do with people feeling left behind by the economy, not listened to come and wanting to have dignity. again, when trump forced that america, aodwill to baffled a lot of reporters. how could this guy from new york, probably never been on a farm, how was he able to do that? was it about race? no most of what i heard over and over again was coming he listened to us, acknowledged our

work is important, we can't survive as a country on a paying jobs,. low wor message in 20 16 was, we're going to make america great again and you're going to be part of that. and your values in terms of pro-gun, pro-life, going to church, all of that, is it administration reinforced that as well. it is more about giving those people a sense of dignity in the work that they do. acknowledging it is important. than it had to do with race. host: president trump's message this morning from mar-a-lago, "merry christmas." mentioned as, you you are writing the book as the pandemic was beginning in earnest, or wrapping up your reporting. you write about the pandemic that whether you look -- took the virus sears are not, was

treated as a political act, as a way of signaling which side you're on, which tribe you are in, whether you thought the virus was an international pandemic that exposed trump's fitness for office or part of a media created hysteria to we can trump. there seem to be no room between those two extreme views. do you think those views are the same today? guest: i think we can all agree those views continue in terms of how people feel about the pandemic. one thing i feel -- i kind of learned in all my interviews over time, i could accurately predict how people would come down on almost any issue. whether it was the judge kavanaugh hearings or the nfl kneeling protests for the

coronavirus, i can predict how people felt about those issues based on their answer to one question -- how do you feel about donald trump? what you think about trump? based on that i can predict, come your probably going to think coronavirus is not that big of a deal or that it was designed to damage trump at of the election. if you are not a trump supporter, you think it is the worst thing that is ever happened and trump did a terrible job on it. it comes down on all of these issues to trump. that is why i found even during ,he pandemic at the beginning you know, i did my duty and reached out to people one final time and said, how do you think trump is performing in terms of combating the virus? maybet any exceptions, one, everyone came down along tribal or party lines. host: bob, pittsburgh, pennsylvania. our democrat line. good morning.

caller: good morning. i want to make production. two years from now, gas is five dollars a gallon, electric is up 40%. newspaper reporting will blame on trump. here's a word yet to start using, anglo phobic. like people's hatred for white people. you can see that. the last blackeye that call. they call is racist, they are anglo phobics. you could hear in their voices. host: we will go to john, democrats line. caller: i want to preface my statement by saying first i have a degree in public administration. ever certificate in ministry and another certificate in immigration law. going back to my v.a. in public administration, donald trump

forgets that part of his role is that of administration and governing. it seems to me he's been making a lot of use of executive orders . in terms of values, my values come from my faith, which indicate that politics from the common good and service and it is all based on truth, freedom, justice love, which leads to a tranquility of order. he definitely is not contributed to that. finally, immigration law. he has treated immigrants, conflated criminal violations thencivil violations, and his misuse of the power of -- well, we know what is going on in terms of the various pardons.

thank you so much. merry christmas and happy new year. did any ofl allott, the folks you interview bring up -- the parts happen pretty much recently, but bring up the allegations and charges of things like cronyism and insider information in the trump administration? guest: along tribal lines you could tell if there were trump supporters, often they were not hearing about some of these allegations or they would be very dismissive. if they were trump critics, he would be the first thing that would talk about. i remember getting back to the point of not allowing for any kind of nuance and assessing trump, i bring up some of these things. if i was talking to maybe a conservative christian trump supporter i would say, well, what about his affairs and some of the character flaws?

they're very dismissive of it. if i was talking to progressive, i would say, how about how well the economy is doing? they would not give him credit. or bring up his progressive else's like the first step act, major reform of the colonel justice system in many years. disproportionally helped minorities and poor people who populate the prison system. he signed the bill into law. because it contradicted their view of the president as being an irredeemable bigot, they would often tell me they had not heard of it. these are people who are we otherwise. they would say, oh, i have to look that up. it comes down to where you stand on trump? do you even hear the information and how seriously are you taking that. text as well. by

referring to previous color, jan in illinois has come up trump falsely claims credit for obama military and veteran benefits. fact-check thing he says." daniel allott, mike s, when the guests say democrats have moved too far to the left, what does that mean specifically? means i think it proposing degree new deal, single-payer health care, abortion on demand, free college , defundingese things the police -- all of that doesn't really play well in middle america, putting with former democrats that i spoke to. i remember talking to some farmers, two-time obama voters, registered democrats, and these people were open to not voting for trump but they said -- this is before biden got the nomination. there's nobody on the democratic side who is a bit more moderate. just give me some reason, they

wanted some reason to vote against trump and for a democrat but i could not see it because they felt they were moving too far to the left. host: the independent line. caller: hello. can you hear me good? host: yes, we can. caller: lit the have a second to get my point out. the people observed in this book must have been ill-informed or something. .here somebody contradictions people must have tuned into the commercial break but not the actual show. with all this talk about obama and people who felt he failed, does the author ask, why did they think he failed? obama saved the country from freefall. he turned the economy around from a disaster. what has trump tend to turn the from the covid disaster we are in now? only one of those two presidents has proven he can turn it around

and actually showed it. when it comes to the people he interviewed, when they talk about obama failed, do they mention anything about mitch mcconnell and the republicans obstruction during that time, were obama did initially try to reach across the aisle and be a bipartisan president but mitch mcconnell had an initial agenda where, what, the first day or even before obama stepped into office, he said his own objective was to make obama a one term president and was up and thepartner whole side with him. and that guy talked about health care, the veteran called in about health care. he gained benefits. what about trump and his cronies and place --ove well, no replacement, but remove health care for over 20 million

americans? what about the farmers? talked about the farmers. but what about the recession that trumps trade war dead for the farmers to where suicide rate went up, there was a recession in that segment, that industry, and had undergo a $30 million to $40 million bailout? host: lots of topics to address, daniel allott. guest: yes, obama did make some overtures in the beginning to try to live the republicans and was met with resistance. the second term he did govern quite a bit under executive order, just as trump has done quite a bit. in a terms of who i talk to, i did not go in and look for a single type of person. it was very organic most of the time. not just trump voters were former obama voters in the book, it was anyone. i would meet people, go to any

event, whoever was willing to talk to me, basically, was who i sought out. on the trade work, i think that is one of the issues where i feel like i was seeing in real-time a lot of the media were nudging a very good job of covering what was going on in middle america during trump's term. i think during the trade war, a lot of farmers were getting hit harder because of the reciprocal tariffs china was placing on some of the agricultural commodities. their bottom lines were going down and they were upset. the stories i was reading while rural iowa, farmers who are angry at trump and they may consider voting against him in 2020. that is not what i heard at all. i heard people were supportive, the farmers, even though they were hard hit. they were supportive of the trade war, that trump was the first president who challenged

china and was following through and trying to keep them accountable to play fairly in trade. if you look at pulling at that time, his popularity among farmers went up during the trade war. whichk that is one way some of the media depictions were off-base. i remember talking to one man, a diehard democrat, who hated everything about trump except on the trade issue. the trade war with china was the one thing he supported. host: probably any unfair question because you have to face up to the other counties, but you have a favorite of the nine counties you visited? guest: you're right, it is unfair. i met some great people can have great friends in iowa. probably the most interesting county was robinson county, north carolina. if you have ever driven down 95, stuck in lumberton, the most racially diverse role county --

rural county in america. two thirds minority. good for obama twice and swung for trump about it for trump largern 2020 by an even margin. it is based on trade. one of the hardest hit counties based on nafta. trumpost a lot of textile thing free-trade -- we're going to renegotiate the trade deals most of that gets back to the issue of listening. a lot people said he is listening to us. very socially conservative. including the minority voters. i met some great friends all over. i was a howard county is a great place, here he county, pennsylvania, has a lot going on part.

robinson, politically speaking, is interesting. host: jason, montgomery, alabama. caller: good morning and merry christmas. mr. it comes to trump, allott, i appreciate your $10 words to describe him and encourage nuance in his policy, but it does a disservice to the intellect of the average person, especially black americans in this country, and i nouri's in general -- minorities in general. it camouflages trump is -- has always been who trump seeks to be. there is never any ambiguity. this president only exposed, us's say, less diverse among mind from comes to lbj "if you convince the lowest white and he is better than the

best black men, will let you pick his pocket. if you give him someone to look down, he will empty his pocket for you." con encapsulates' trumps and what he is done and people who support them, specifically when you look at the election fraud and how he is made money lying to people who willfully accepted the lie about him losing the election to give him money. now he's going to turn around and use that money to do whatever he does in the future, whether it is a tv show or channel or run again, whatever the case may be, or how he spoke about the people who donated to "we build the wall" when they got scammed by steve bannon. yes no concern for anyone, but he was able to tap into a grievance and wanamaker, specifically after the election of the first black president, that allowed him to con them and they willfully -- willfully let him do it. there is no ambiguity about that.

i appreciate your efforts and trying to be neutral down the trying to psychoanalyze -- it is not that complicated. it is really not. i is appreciated but generally think it as anything to the conversation other than over complexity. host: daniel, the areas you covered, do you think these areas were headed in this direction anyway and it happened to be donald trump? guest: i think so. what he did tap into is a grievance, but i think it had a not less to do with race tha this idea of dignity, of being listened to and feeling they work left behind. i said that before. person by person, i am sure race played a role for some trump supporters. just as i am sure biden supporters. a few times i encountered racism

on the road, again coming from a white guy, but it wasn't always white expressing racism toward blacks. it was across the spectrum. i would have a question for the caller, i don't know if i can do that, but how would he attribute trumps improvement among black men in the 2020 election and other minorities in terms of his performance? host: our color left but he does pose a good rhetorical question. daniel allott, appreciate your time, opinion editor at "the hill" and author of the new book we've been talking about "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." much and enjoy the holiday. moorehead on washington journal. we are joined by pulitzer prize winner clarence page. he will be with us to talk about his christmas day and politics,

and what politics may be ahead of the year 2021. that is next. ♪ at 8:00 p.m. on c-span, an event on division in america for the heads of the naacp, the anti-defamation league, and latin american citizens. c-span2,.m. on the 20th anniversary of "in-depth," with authors who have appeared on the program. on c-span3, american history tv looks at new york city's lower east side tenement museum and how immigrant families in the 19th and 20th centuries coped with poverty and crowded conditions. >> sunday on book tv on c-span2

at 9:00 p.m. on afterwards, environmental progress founder michael shellenberger on his book "apocalypse never." he's interviewed by andrew redken of columbia university. >> many things they advocated are bad for the environment. renewables require 300 to 400 times more land. on the question -- my views have been badly misrepresented by some people who actually know better. people said, michael, dear insisting it's all nuclear. that's not true. i defend the right of indonesia to burn coal because burning coal is better than burning wood. i defend fracking for natural gas because it is better than coal. are you pro-natural gas or anti-natural gas? wrong question. i'm in favor to replace coal. i'm against it when it replaces nuclear. >> sunday night at 9:00 eastern

on book tv on c-span2. ♪ >> use mobile devices and go to c-span.org for the latest videos, live and on-demand, to follow the transition of power. president trump, president-elect biden, news conferences and coverage at c-span.org. washington journal continues. host: we are joined by a familiar face, syndicated columnist clarence page on this christmas morning. also, they tend list on the mclaughlin group, available on youtube and select pbs stations. clarence page, welcome in merry christmas. guest: merry christmas to you, bill. host: we started asking our viewers and listeners about this christmas day 2020 at how things

have changed over the past year. politicsandemic and affected the gatherings and celebrations on christmas 2020. what are your thoughts? guest: we did not have any idea a year ago what kind of impact the pandemic was going to have. it would be a pandemic. it wasn't until mid-march they shut down borders. we realized this would grind our society to a halt. nachos here but across the western world. -- not just here but across the western world. it changed the election prospects a lot. president trump was doing well. he had not reached 50% as far as approval, which is kind of a distinction of has among modern presidents. he was scoring well on the economy as an issue.

on his way to possibly a victorious contest, but look what happened. the way he handled the pandemic, whether you approve or not, had a big impact on how people perceived his presidency. i think that was the biggest issue, the handling of the pandemic. thebiden was a return to old. even those who were aggressively pushing for the new nonetheless are willing to compromise and put him in the office. it did change a lot of perceptions. host: what are your concerns about the final 25 days of the trump administration? this weekend for the uncertainty over the passage of additional covid relief and the uncertainty over the outcome of the vote in congress on the electoral

college on january 6? day fort's a great complicated questions. i will try to simplify it. me anda big surprise to other folks when president trump turned around and decided the compromise bill hammered out with such great effort was not good enough for him. he wanted more money and direct payments for folks put out of work by the -- to working america. he wanted $2000. he democrats were delighted because that is what they wanted all along. trump decidedent to do that? president trump never really was a republican. i was saying this all along. record was closer to

democratic politicians then republicans. -- than republicans. he put his own party and something of a box because either the bill -- he already vetoed it. will he get his veto overridden? something the democrats are in best position to decide. overridehe republicans his veto? to -- that's a big question. if they don't, or if the democrats do pass it with $2000, that will make trump look good in people from his own party look like they were weak as far

as supporting working-class americans. he put his own party into a box here. we will see what happens. host: have you seen a president and members of his own party -- he put them in a box. has there ever been the sort of president andn a members of his own party on the hill? no,. not out in the well, no, not in the open. a lot of republicans were displeased by president trump's policies and his moves. his solid support, almost rocksolid, 80% or more among republicans. that has been the story. mitch mcconnell, the republican leader and other republicans

don't want to get between trump and his supporters. democracy in action, hardball democracy. that is what makes him a popular politician. working-classd to and middle-class americans, struggling middle-class. you use the term "middle-class," you are talking about 90% of americans. most will say they are struggling is well with the economy these days. hero ofpears to be the that group. and as a leader in that struggle. it has not been consistent as far as his actions in favor of the tax breaks. they mostly benefited the upper, upper income. image ofess, his shaking things up on behalf of working-class americans has been

very successful. especially among white americans. host: we are talking politics with clarence page. we welcome your calls and comments that (202) 748-8001. that's the republican line. democrats use (202) 748-8000. her independents and others -- for independents and others, (202) 748-8002. a couple of pieces he wrote after the election. in "theion piece chicago tribune." time to lose the labels. more embarrassing for democrats in the year of racial reckoning, the share of black, hispanic, and women voters won by joe biden and kamala harris went down compared to four years ago. the message from voters to democrats seems to be no, we might not like trump but we are not crazy about you guys either. --t message do you think

what failed with democrats in terms of losses you were talking about in the u.s. house? failed goes back to the reagan days. ronald reagan successfully persuaded a lot of middle-class swing voters, especially white and some black folks that he was the advocate for them in their struggle. , you held him here conservatives talk about it. workingme gap between class americans and upper-class has widened and widened. i use the example of growing up in southern ohio i was able to work at a steel mill to pay my tuition to ohio university. when i started school it was only $750. drop now but the

last time i checked tuition was about $14,000 to $15,000. that's a good state university. same thing across the country. that was my avenue into the middle class. that i was from a blue-collar family. after college i was able to have entry into the middle class. the group that had the only despited real income inflation has been those who have at least two years of schooling past high school. that is different than it used to be. we saw this coming intellectually but it is here and it has been here for years. a failure to address that is a big reason why democrats are beginning to lose working-class americans and they are attracted to the republicans.

-- successfully reached out to both groups and was able to put together a coalition and reelected him later on. barack obama followed a similar pattern. obamas where you have the -trump voters who voted for --ma twice and ist: do you think joe biden in a position to reach those middle-class americans? -- whatcifically helices do they have to propose and get passed? the highest ranking democrat in the house who endorsed biden during the primaries.

his victory in south carolina after losing iowa and new hampshire, nevada. that turned around the campaign n in the end.e wo why were they attracted? they said we know joe and joe knows us. love joe biden or hate him, he was the guy who has been identified with working-class americans in the union vote throughout his career. that really helped him a great deal in terms of the public's impressions of him. joe was coming into a world of media, where media and politics wee been married to a degree have our first former reality tv show president. he has been very effective at using the media. trump has been effective at using media to build his image

and put pressure on certain politicians and praise for others. biden, because so many people know joe biden when he walks into a room or peers on the scene, he was able to pull together folks he wanted away from trump and those who were ideologically driven. what difference will he make? issues like infrastructure, infrastructure repair, which the nation is long overdue for. that has been boxed in gridlock for years. republicans and democrats had difficulty moving legislation. if anybody can do it, joe can. that's an issue where he can have a positive impact as far as bringing both sides together. mitch mcconnell expressed -- joel of joe biden's biden being his bargaining partner. they have known each other for so long as well.

we will see what the result of that will be. host: back to the presidential race. the washington post with analysis. democrats large gains surpassed their losses. the area the democrats gained in votes was the syrups beyond the suburbs, military posts, college towns, urban ngburbs, middle suburbs, grayi america and rural america. they lost lds enclaves, hispanic centers, big cities, aging farmlands, native american lands, evangelical hubs, working-class country and the african-american south. are you surprised democrats lost votes in big cities? guest: two things here. votes.tioned evangelical it's interesting that donald trump, who violated seven or

eight of the 10 commandments, has been so popular with evangelicals. he's been very effective at pushing the issues they care about. they care about the supreme court much more than liberals. the supreme court mean something. that is what i was able to go to a desegregated school after brown versus the board. as a ring court has always meant a lot to black folks. -- the supreme court has always meant a lot to black folks. boat, joe biden -- urban vote, joe biden was not as effective to reaching out to black voters as he might have been. he was not another barack obama. he was barack obama's vice president so that was a big help for him. the turnout could have been a lot lower if it wasn't for the fact he was barack obama's vice president and he played that tremendously well.

i think it worked for him. divide and the inner suburbs, outer suburbs and rural areas, that divide has been very important. . biden turned around a lot of swing vote areas in his favor simply because people trusted him as being a more traditional kind of democrat who was not pushing unpopular issues. column how the defund the police was a good example of how liberals can lead a slogan get out of control. it was something mentioned by the french left but embraced by left but -- fringe embraced by the right. that was the biggest burden joe biden and democrats had in the swing vote areas, the obama-trump areas.

that is where biden was able to overcome that. if bernie sanders won the nomination, i don't think he would have gotten that kind of result. sanders said too much over trump with the s word, socialism. you saw how that worked in miami with refugee hispanic families fascism.n american that would've been an uphill climb. the democratic party has moved in a more progressive direction. that's another thing we will seek reemerge in the future. host: let's get to your calls. ron in west chesterfield, new hampshire. caller: good morning, washington journal and mr. page. i am honored to speak with you, sir. guest: thank you. caller: merry christmas. you mentioned the evangelical christians which came out in droves to elect donald trump.

i have got to say they have got to be some of the biggest hypocrites out there. seriously. how anybody could claim to have announced of religion in them and for donald trump is beyond me -- an ounce of religion in them and for donald trump is beyond me. he's a gambler. they are a bunch of hypocrites. they must have sold their souls to try to get some of their legislation through to look for donald trump. donald trump is a disgrace. where is he? we have a rating pandemic killing people by the hundreds of thousands. we have russians hacking and everything. these data mar-a-lago golfing? seriously? this is a president? he's not a president. he is a clown. that is all he has ever been. i would never vote republican. you could not pay me enough to vote republican ever.

host: clarence page? you.: thank it is true. i shared that confusion and surprise that trump got as much evangelical support as he did. talking to evangelical friends and newsmakers, this is across the country. especially since the early reagan years. that was when the christian vigorously on the republican side. especially around the issue of abortion. we start dealing with life versus choice in this country, there is nothing that strikes more deeply in the heart of americans, whichever side they are on. that is one issue that can help a one-issue candidate like trump.

inwanted to appoint justices the antonin scalia a model. that resonated -- antonin scalia model. they were willing to put up with soiled resume, the controversial resume of donald trump to give her they wanted out of the court. you see what has happened now. three justices he has been able to put on the court and his model image of the scalia justices. where he got the surprise was chief justice roberts and the other conservative appointees he made did not back him up in his bid to overturn the election. all.pressed betrayal and

the rest of us, a lot of us expressed rate delight our institutions held together. the fact you appoint somebody to be a justice does not mean they are going to always give decisions in your favor. chicago-style hardball politics. i grew up in this profession with that. it has not happened in washington. that is the one thing that keeps us from becoming a dictatorship. caller: good morning. i have family that graduated from athens, ohio. i had this conversation with you on c-span several years ago. donald trump was nothing. he was just a guy he would make these boring speeches until he went on the view and made his comment about barack obama's birth certificate. he shot to the top of the polls precisely because of that.

when you talk to trump man, they sayo a they hated barack obama so much that they were willing to attack him because of a lie. republicans were willing to support donald trump because he won the republican nomination based on that lie. republicans 90% of think donald trump is not a racist, but 85% of democrats do. we as a country do not care about facts, so long as partisan identity politics are part of the discussion. they cannot accept he is a racist. that is why you have people like paul ryan saying, yes, the man is a racist but at least he is not hillary clinton. at least he is not a democrat. host: all right, terrence. guest: that is something i have observed as well. i like paul ryan. i have written columns about some of his ideas. he's a thinking conservative.

and not against compromise in order to push the ideas forward. fromis quite different tribal conservatives. our politics have become more tribal lysed on the right and left. -- tribalized on the right and the left. the first question is republican or democrat? they will base on the answer to that question their vote. that is voting with the tribe. there is nothing new about that but it does mean a lot of other good ideas can fall by the wayside because nobody is pushing the idea. maybe we have been doing this wrong. maybe we should try a new approach. as a columnist who i'm looking

for reform ideas for housing, education. other say you can't trust the fill-in in the blank party and that's the way they decide to vote. there are some evangelicals who use biblical examples. cyrus who wasng not jewish but when out of his way to protect the jews. that was symbolic of what donald trump, how he is viewed many evangelicals. he is not one of us but he goes with us -- votes with us. i feel like among the upper midwest they try to be more pragmatic, less tribal.

ohio was a great swing state for most of my lifetime. now it is recently getting redder. result of these issues i've been talking about. they have caused politics to be more polarized. host: pete on the republican line from new hampshire. caller: hello, guys. good to see you on c-span, clarence. guest: thank you. caller: joe has not done a d amn thing for 47 years. he's the consummate d.c. politician. there will be a lot of people sadly let down when they find out -- they will end up with buyer's remorse. guest: that happens in politics, doesn't it? caller: excuse me? guest: that happens in politics. caller: the set part is the problem with washington is

politicians. call.thanks for your clarence page? guest: i have heard that all my life. those darn politicians. not you necessarily but most people when they start , thatning politicians means a politician did not me what they wanted them to do. that's ok. that's the way the democratic republic was set up so people could try to get satisfaction out of the political folks running for office. verydent trump is a political person in his own head even though he had not been politically involved publicly for that long. the fact is politics is the way r make things o

stay the same or support the existing system. those who are making speeches and then don't deliver, they invite the public's wrath. joe biden has made a lot of speeches and has a record of action for the last 50 years. happens.ee what one of president trump's favorite statements. book abouta president trump, it would be called "let's see what happens." host: clarence page, long time panelist on the old mclaughlin group. now with the new mclaughlin group. you are joined by pat buchanan and by eleanor clift. you have been in production for a year or so on some pbs stations, correct? guest: yes, and on youtube as we speak. our end of the year awards show

is online now. host: find that online on youtube. it's also at loughlin. -- mclaughlin.com. michael from newman, georgia. democrats line. merry christmas, michael. go ahead with your comment. caller: i am calling about the relief package. early in the negotiations when steven mnuchin was negotiating about the relief package, mitch mcconnell was still in kentucky. when the people said he should've taken the deal, it ain't gonna be no deal without mcconnell. , he they did get a deal knew mcconnell was not going to agree to $2000 for individuals. a deal he put into

that negotiation. you think mcconnell will go along with it or oppose it? caller: he's not going to go along with no $2000. that is something donald trump put into that legislation. host: we touched on that a little earlier, clarence page. the house will take this measure up on monday. if they pass it, it puts mitch mcconnell on the spot. guest: it does. he has been there before but he survived because he persuaded people he was in donald trump's corner. thisnald trump supported -- supported by 80% of republican voters. that's a big percentage. the difference this time is that said no.ump

$2000.favor of the that's the democratic amount. my son asked how nancy pelosi would respond to that. she would love it. and she has. jeb bush called trump the chaos candidate. ine he is fermenting chaos order to betray himself as a working class hero, a populist hero above party. this 11th hour attempt to do that. host: reflecting some the situation on capitol hill, reporting this morning. congress scrambles to avert shutdown after trump's stimulus demands. our guest is clarence page until 10:00 eastern. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. democrats, (202) 748-8000. all others, (202) 748-8002.

troy in pensacola, florida. republican line. caller: yes, good morning, gentlemen. merry christmas to all. host: thank you. iller: i would like to say was born in the 1960's and grew up in the 1970's and whatnot. -- i wouldn't necessarily classify myself as a republican, democrat or independent. more so i would say a realist. i have seen how politics has played out. my father was a world war ii veteran. he was a staunch democrat most of his life. until the end when he passed away back in 2012. i guess he saw the way the party was going. everything is basically driven by race and social inequality and all that stuff.

as far as black lives matter, i agree they do matter. all lives matter. we shouldn't hang it on a skin color. as far as the country being racist, come on people. we voted for an african-american president for two terms. that is eight years. i believe we have moved beyond that but then again the political side keeps revisiting race. the democrats are known for keeping the black african population beat down and used. it was the republicans. people refer back to the old in whendaysolde lincoln voice that everyone was equal and needed rights. guest: you have given me a lot to chew on.

a lot of what you say is true. i grew up in the midst of that kind of partisan change. the party of lincoln was very 90%lar among black folks, popular until the 1930's went fdr and the new deal begin to reach out towards black voters. prior to that, woodrow wilson was a democrat who re-segregated the government. we cannot call him a hero of african americans. fdr was. but so was eisenhower in the 1950's. he got around 40%. he was a very popular crossover candidate. was aitcheroo came when i high school when barry goldwater was elected. i liked goldwater at first.

a libertarian. he favored abolishing the draft and legalizing marijuana. what more could a teenage boy asked for? when he voted against the civil to ban white and black signs on restrooms and reinforce black employment rights, etc., that was a real big break between republicans and the black voters. even nixon scored better than goldwater among african-americans. the fact is there is a real divide now because a lot of republican politicians pushed -- i'm reminded of the definition of a liberal as a

lookingan who is always evils as opposed to the conservative who is content with the existing evils. nowadays we see more votes along racial lines. trump did a little better this election his first four years ago but that is not saying much. he was the first republican this time to score in double digits, able to get above 10% at least in part of the country among black voters. bush did about as well as trump did among black voters. there is a real racial divide. i think a lot of that is because

while democrats have definitely pushed for diversity and for the rights of people of color and for women's rights, they have not been as forceful in portraying themselves as heroes .f the status quo this is the kind of tribal politics now. -- now with which republicans have benefited. joe biden, when he had his confrontation with kamala harris at an early debate that we all remember, that really helped him among white working-class voters . bill clinton was just a soldier criticism. that helped him. neither biden or clinton was in the hip pocket of jesse jack son and the other icons of

the black left. another issue that got polarized when it shouldn't have. i said from the beginning black lives matter. he can be so easily recast by opponents and we see that is what has happened. towas recast by the right say only black lives matter and that was never the idea. most people know better but it's an effective political slogan. host: mustang, oklahoma. kathy on the independent line. caller: what is wrong with our political situation is mostly the media. people have these ideas. if you did not like obama, you voted for trump. i voted for obama twice and voted for trump. the reason is because the democratic party no longer exists as far as what the democratic party was. they are all on the take, including biden.

what has he done? they have bankruptcy bill that left poor people out they cannot declare bankruptcy anymore. a crime bill that made our minorities a revolving door for prisons. he protected the financial companies in delaware but nothing for the people. during obama's term i was terribly disappointed. it was the biggest transfer of wealth in history. the democrats are globalists. they stir trouble. we don't hate each other in america. history.century of you can say it is there but it is not. we like each other. host: clarence page, she voted for barack obama twice and then voted for donald trump. guest: this is the kind of swing voter i was talking about before.

that is the type of voter that by the defundled the police slogan. just like the willie horton campaign was effective for republicans back in 1988. this is the kind of environment we are operating in these days politically. i have a lot of folks who write to me and say, how can black people support the democrats? they were doing this and that. these folks don't know how to recognize their own interests. i think black voters know how to recognize their interest just as ll as whitewe evangelicals who voted for trump. look at the trump tax schedule that has benefited the upper voters muchntage more than the lower income

voters. but he is still our guy. that is the way his supporters feel. it pays to look closely at these important political questions. the most important question thatics is, who controls is this guy or woman on my side? a lot of different decisions go into that. if they are the same ethnic or racial group or the same if their labor or management, these factors go into the decision-making of each rotor. a lot of candidates -- of each voter. an obvious majority of voters supported joe biden over donald trump. like it or hate it, i don't

think all those voters are dumb on either side. host: clarence page mentioned this particular point of view and his column from november. how defund the police sabotaged democrats on election day. give us details of that column. what do you think specifically -- you used the word sabotage. the headline does. guest: the term political correctness, it was a liberal academic term. that was a middle east nest up and embraced by the right to use it against the left. the same thing happened with defund the police and black lives matter. afund the police came out of very well-meaning attempt to digest a different approach to policing. in other words, reevaluate policing and how it is done.

was writing aach couple of columns where i said we ask too much of the police. that is something chicago's current superintendent said. -- annd of mine from ohio uncle of a classmate of mine retired as the police chief. we were talking about this. how people expect police officers to be an expert at everything. most police calls are not for criminal conduct going on right a call involving a burglary overshooting. -- corky shooting. most -- or a shooting. most are domestic calls. the husband hitting his wife or something of that nature. rodney, the former chief was

telling me about when he was a a young rookie. one of his first calls was a woman who went in marriage counseling. -- wanted marriage counseling. it happened two or three times. he was around 19 years old. i'm supposed to help this person with their marriage? i did the best i could for five or 10 minutes and then moved on. this kind of thing happens all the time. what is tragic is we have seen cases where someone who was mentally deranged and hurting themselves and a police officer or the police tried to subdue them. the person winds of dead. -- up dead. i look into the details of a case like that. these cops did not know what they were doing. they meant to peacefully bring

the guy to help but they did not know what to do in windup strangling the fellow. happens too thing often. the officers want to be relieved of that kind of call in order to --k in more serious crimes. work on more serious crimes. on the presidential campaign level it is too easily turn into a slogan used against democrats. host: darlene in oregon on the democrats line. caller: i'm calling in to say merry christmas and goodbye to donald trump. donald trump is the perfect example of bringing somebody in from the outside that has no idea what is going on on the inside. he was a good president of a corporation and maybe ran a small company well, but the united states government is

different than hiring people to do a job you can just fire them if they're not even the job. the u.s. government is a world within a world. it takes a lot to make it move and turn. pour president trump -- i don't say that lightly because they can't stand the guy. back in the 80's he was a slumlord. he was used by the republican congress. they used him as a figurehead and let him run all of his country doing his little parties and all that kind of stuff. in the meantime they passed whatever they wanted in the senate with the judges impact the courts, etc. host: dennis similar vein on leadership, clarence page, this is from paul in michigan. president trump is a con man masquerading as a maverick politician. the three card monte game is coming to an end. guest: i said myself that donald

trump is a con man. con man economy a -- is short for confidence man to get what they want. they can be scrupulously or on scrupulously. -- unscrupulously. the fact is donald trump, love him or hate him, ceased as ezed hisity -- si opportunity. he showed discontent among white voters anduggling middle-class voters who felt -- let's talk about the array of republican candidates gathered up on stage and 2016 in the republican

debates. people far more seasoned than donald trump. he literally knocked the ball m all down to the shock of many of us. column this week and the about how shocked i was by his success in ohio. friends of mine were telling me that she would trump voters, read "hillbilly elegy." the book was rising on the bestseller chart. i was surprised to discover it was about middletown, ohio, my hometown. portrait ofpoignant a young man like i was growing up in that steel town and trying to make a future for himself.

p windup at yell law school. i wound up at university. for those who did not get more education, they were in the kind of bracket that was not being remembered. it felt taken for granted by democrats and republicans had not been responding with relevant action either. that sounds familiar to me as an african-american. we black voters are always thinking about being taken for granted by democrats and ignored by republicans. i got a hold of jd vance. we've had several conversations. i feel like there is something here going on that is not being addressed by our current parties. joe biden knows about it. i am waiting to see how he will address it as president after having worked with the same demographic groups for decades. host: next on the republican

line, janice. caller: good morning. i have several points i would like to make. merry christmas. one is addressed to your first went on there about evangelist being hypocrites and how could they possibly vote for a racist. term as farof that as donald trump is concerned. he only became a racist when he ran for office. we voted for trump versus voting for murder in and out of the womb. trump versus gay marriage. he stood for everything the church and the bible stand for. when i asked democrats why they , the only think they can say is he is not trump.

where are the policies? as far as anybody being a racist, biden has a 47-year long history of racism. starting with segregation all the way up to the crime bill. s talking about democracy. nothing will destroy our democracy more than socialism. i don't understand the stupidity of the left when they talk about their hatred of trumpet basing it on nothing more than identity politics. host: we will get thoughts from clarence page. guest: a lot of issues there. i'm always intrigued when people democrats for being socialists. i wonder what they are talking about. do they like social security? they say yes. don't touch my social security. that is socialism.

it was attacked when fdr first brought it up. i don't need to tell you have it's a third real issue among politicians on the right and left. touch it and he died. same thing with -- touch it and you die. same thing with medicare. see ronald reagan's album he recorded back in the days in the mid-1960's before everybody has their own recorder in the pockets. he put out these albums about comparing socialized medicine to communism, for the first step towards marxism. that was the argument made against medicare. now medicare is probably either the most popular government program or close to it. we, whenever the government takes selective action, you get that kind of reaction. today president trump was

opposed to obamacare. railed against it. obamacare wasnd coming under constant attack from the right, but it was also being used by people by then. they began to like obamacare, for the affordable care act as term.- it's formal a classic story about reporters asking a woman if she liked the idea of obamacare. she said no, i don't want that obamacare. they were asked what kind of health care coverage you had. i got the affordable care act. i like the affordable care act. it saved our lives. that was marketing. obamacare,ave passed it doesn't mean people are going to understand what it is or like

it. as it turned out president trump was not able to get obamacare repealed because it kept getting more popular. by the time he was inaugurated, it was more popular than unpopular. it has been that way since. that is really how our national debate gets polluted by politicians using various labels to rebrand something and persuade voters to vote against something that might be good for them. how if you lose it now 20 million people will lose health care coverage. i could go on for another hour about that issue. host: you mentioned the book "hillbilly elegy." your hometown in ohio is the same hometown. otribune.com.

when hollywood came to my hometown, the book was better. a movie review by clarence page. larry from minnesota, democrats line. caller: i have a question. there is one issue that will bring republican voters over to democrat votes, the minimum wage law. for whatever reason the democrats just treat it like a left-handed issue. when it is the what issue that in georgia, for instance, would win both senate seats. i don't understand why the democrats don't run hard on the minimum wage. guest: because they got some i wouldn'tut disagree with you on that but democrats have pushed for increases in the minimum wage. we have seen o a lot of them

across the country. we have not had an increase in them and wage since the early reagan years, which means we are actually in a hole as far as low income brackets. i have always said when hit with the idea of the opposition to trickle down politics, try buffalo politics. --you subsidize a group subsidizing the rich makes little sense to subsidizing the poor who will spend the money and put it into the economy. that will boost the economy, which will help everybody. rich people are more inclined to put the money in the bank or some other investment. it doesn't actually roll into the economy in an effective way. i have been surprised and gratified by how much success has occurred across the country with the local and state minimum

wage increases. that is largely because the real minimum wage, meaning what is really being paid out there, is consistently higher than the legal minimum wage because our economy has been consistently office,se obama came in leading us out of the recession at that time. i think you will see more success on that issue. the question of why democrats some push it more, that's a matter being hammered out at the state and local level. host: we wrap up with a quick call from chicago. jeff, you get the honors. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to ask mr. paige what he think about the state of journalism. i'm a subscriber to the local papers in chicago and the tribune. i was -- it was very disturbing

to us in the city. just the state of investigative electronically. it's very disturbing and i'm curious about your thoughts on that. donald trump is an initial outgrowth of this portion of the republican party, starting back with barry goldwater. he's the most honest. i understand republicans are the party with no interest or capacity for governance. host: we will let you go, jeff. clarence page, if you want to get to the media issue. guest: 50 years. i would not expect them to be there that long. the state of journalism is in transition. my conservative friend who grew up in immediate family, we were talking about this one day.

he said our industry has always been in a state of decline in our lifetime. that is true. we grew up in the tv era. newspapers have always been in decline since the beginning of the tv era. we have seen newspapers close right and left. in the internet age everything is speeded up. the new york times, the los angeles times, the washington post are all doing well because ownedre still privately or family owned corporations that have one guy at the top who who believes in news and will support the news side. ownedst of us are largely by different different corporatr holding companies or whatever, ,ike other private companies that are pushing more for profits. it is always a struggle for us

on the news side to say, this needs to be covered. but the fact is, we are in a transition from the paper age to the online age, which i think has been great in so many ways. i get more readers now, certainly. more of a national reach than before. there,petition is still but the importance of servicing the readers is still there. for those of us who still remember how life was when we had much larger staffs across the country and bigger expense accounts, those days are gone for now, but we are finding new ways to raise revenue and new ways to reach readers in this online age. so it is all very exciting. , the readers, is as the caller said, the readers

and the viewers out there. let the buyer beware. that is the motto people have to remember in media. i hear people talk about media all the time as if we are talking about one voice. it is a multitude of voices. host: among the places where you can read clarence page is at the chicagotribune.com. mcglocklinn the group and on the youtube page. clarence page, thank you so much. guest: merry christmas to everyone. host: merry christmas. we hope that you are back with us tomorrow morning at 7:00 eastern. enjoy the rest of your day, rest of your weekend. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

>> c-span's "washington journal" every day, we are taking your calls live on the air about the news of the day and discussing policy issues that impact you. this week is our annual authors week series in coming up saturday morning, former trump organization executive vice tower of with her book lives, my 18 years of working with donald trump. washington examiner politics editor talks about the republican party and the incoming biden administration. watch c-span's "washington journal" live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on saturday morning and join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages and tweets. c-span,p.m. tonight on

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measures. president trump threatened to veto the spending bill because he wants larger stimulus checks. the current legislation calls for $600 while the president wants 2000. democrats attempted to pass a bill increasing the size of the stimulus only to be blocked by republicans. plan to to pass -- they debate again monday. president trump defect -- vetoed the defense program and he repeald to failure to 232 protect media companies. the vote to override the veto is expected in both chambers beginning in the house on monday. watch the house live on c-span and see the senate live on c-span two are watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. c-span was created by america's cable television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span to viewers as a

public service. next, historian david kennedy, author of american pageant and freedom from fear on challenges and threats to democracy in america. this is from a commonwealth club of california event. >> consider donating to the