politics editor talks about the republican party and the incoming biden administration. watch c-span's washington journal live at 7:00 eastern sunday morning. be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. >> congress returns next week to vote on overturning president trump's veto of the defense authorization bill, sending military pay programs and policy for the next year. president trump objected to a provision to remove could write names from military installations, and he wanted to eliminate social media company protections that were added to the bill. congressional leaders are still working on 2021 federal spending before the government shuts down monday night. house democrats will try to increase stimulus checks. congress approved $600 for individuals. president trump called for $2000 after the bill passed, and democrats will try to make that

happen with new legislation. lighthouse coverage here on c-span. watch the senate live on c-span2. continues. host: we are joined by daniel allott, opinion editor at "the hill" and author of the book "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." you for being with us on this christmas morning. >> thank you for having me. host: what was the reason you wrote the book? guest: the 2016 election exposed a real disconnect between the washington media and much of the country. very few journalists and posters predicted trump's rise. it seems to me. if you are interested in getting to know what motivated his voters. deeperd to go a little and shortly after the inauguration in 2017, i left my job at a d.c. political magazine

and set out on the road traveling and living in nine counties scattered across nine states from florida through the rust belt out to the upper midwest and utah and california. for three years i spent the better part of that time and myself in communities -- embedding myself in communities, staying in people's homes, i hoped getting to a deeper level of understanding because of that. host: let's take a look at some of the nine counties you chose all over the country. howard county, iowa. orange county, california. grant county, west virginia. roberson county, north carolina. salt lake city, utah. what was behind the selection of these counties? allt: i wanted to first of get some of the pivotal, crucial states that were most important

in understanding the 2016 election. coincidentally, there were important for understanding what happened in 2020. yeah florida, pennsylvania, wisconsin, and those important swing states, michigan. if you combine all nine counties, is hard to get the full story of what is going on in the country. out of 3000 some counties, i immigration of a decline in manufacturing, what have you most of grant county, west virginia, a very pro-trump county and that is why i try it -- chose it. a chapter became about the opioid epidemic because that issue was so stark and had such a devastating effect on that community. when you combine the nine counties, i think it is a good cross-section of what has happened in the country over the last three or four years. host: it must have and cognizant of on the road journalism, like

a better term, studs terkel and even charles kuralt tv series that he turned into several books, on the road series he did. >> the book is premised on the idea in order to truly understand, yet the spent a lot of time and talk to a lot of people and listen and observe. i think not going in -- trying not to approach each place with my own conclusions already drawn, but sitting back and observing for a while, building relationships, building relationships, building trust. there is a deep distrust of the media throughout much of the country. when a reporter comes in from washington, not a lot of people are going to open up right away. it took some time. over time, over years, i was able to build up an amount of goodwill and trust. host: you say you state in people's homes. logistically, how did you arrange these?

how did you show and decide to spend time or do you just wing it as she went along? guest: a little of everything. usually before entering, i need the key issue so i would reach out to people who were community leaders. i was fortunate to have any people in many of the places that were what i would call my fixers and they would set me up with interviews, give me access that i would not normally have. there is definitely a learning curve involved. some places that i went to, like robinson, people were easy to talk to. year places, it took until two until i found -- felt like i truly was starting to understand the different issues going on in that place. just being patient as well and keep showing up and keep engaging. as ouraniel allott guest. his book is "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation."

we welcome your calls and comments. we are dividing our lines by political party. how long did the total effort, the trip part of it, before the actual writing, how long did that take you? guest: i set out in february 2017 and my last trip was march 2020. i got to michigan governor shut down the schools and nobody was doing any meetings or anything. it was just over three years. obviously, a lot happened between march the election. if you read the book, i was able to hit on a lot of the key dynamics we sell play out on election day. host: how much did your opinion change about the trump voter, trump supporters over that stretch of time you were traveling?

guest: i would say somewhat. i have a lot of friends across the spectrum and family members, so it was not a surprise. but i felt like giving a voice to people who often feel like they have not had one was he and to try and do right by some of these places -- a lot of times i wanted to communities, think of. county, pennsylvania. a pretty famous swing county. the minute i got there, everyone from the can executives and the mayor down to just people on the street, talking about the media came in after the election and completely misrepresented what our county is about. we voted for obama and then trump, so obviously, it is a really dire situation and doom and gloom. i thought the media was not characterizing, depicting them accurately. they just said, please, hang out, spend some time and report accurately on what is going on.

that is what i heard over and over can from different communities. host: you right under the book you say geography more than race or class has become the crucial dividing line. that is partly because rural and urban americans and grace -- and brace different values. rural people tend to value tradition, familiarity, having deep community ties. it will often forgo more lucrative job opportunities and cities to be closer to family. a huge gap between rural and urban american with each side hardly recognizing each other. couldn't you say certainly suburban people or suburban people value family, ties, tradition and having community ties to those suburban or urban areas? guest: sure, plenty people in ofan america -- i value some those things, too. i think if you spent a lot of time in urban and rural america, you see how different they are.

completely different from the food they eat to the entertainment to the way they dress. now the jobs they have. and increasingly, the political candidates and parties they vote for. at the national level, the urban areas are not increasingly the domain of democrats and rural for trump and republican. for trump, a lot of people did not quite understand what that appeal was for people in rural america. the word i heard over and over again five farmers and other people in rural america in regards to trump, he seemed to acknowledge the work they do as being important and their values should not be mocked or looked down upon. often they felt like democrats were doing that. even among a lot of former obama voters, a lot of the places i traveled were in the upper midwest where obama did really well in those places swung to trump.

went further for trump in 2020 because a lot of them feel like the democratic party has moved too far to the left for them. i remember -- you mentioned iowa , one of my favorite places. the only county in america that voted for barack obama by more than 20 points in 2012 and then swung to donald trump by more than 20 points in 2016. it's 141 points. rural county. two stoplights lights, fewer than 10,000 people. over 99% white. a lot of people i spoke to were obama voters and felt disappointed. the way one man put it, joe walker who i talked to probably a dozen times over the 3.5 years whenever i would visit, he is a registered democrat, two-time obama voter, voted for trump. 2017, where the

democrats are now, that is where -- where i am now, the democrats were 30 years ago. he feels like the party has left them behind. republicans now align more with him. he has not changed. because the democrats have moved too far to the left. that is a story i heard over and over again in rural parts of the country. us.: daniel allott is with let's get to your calls and comments. massachusetts, go ahead. democrat line. theachusetts, you're on air. we will go to roger in middletown, ohio. roger, go ahead. caller: good morning. merry christmas. i will have to speak quick. they were complaining about there are no jobs. i am an entertainer.

i drove here to pennsylvania. jobs on every corner. stopped in restaurants. they need help. i went from pennsylvania to illinois, jobs every place. begging people to go to work. truck drivers. i went to nashville and all the way up and down the road, job, jobs, jobs. i came back from nashville to ohio again. jobs, jobs, jobs. there are plenty of jobs. i am a korean veteran. i just turned 87 years old. fixed the v.a. so if the v.a. does not take care of me, i can go to a hospital and it will get taking care of me. the lady that was on not too long ago as a woman preacher, she said she has known trump since he was 17 and never known him to tell a lie. he has never taken a dive for the president's job. beat theen there -- he

cleanse. if you go to the democrat party, the kennedys and the clintons -- host: roger, ohio, thank you for your comment. daniel allott, any thoughts on his opinion? guest: he mentioned trump not taking a salary. i was surprised how often heard from people here did not take a salary. showed he was working for the people and not doing it for the money. host: you started this in 2017. hillary failedy in those areas? guest: i was surprised how many trump voters well figured were all in on trump, mainly it was because i did not want to vote for hillary.

that is part of why joe biden was able to issue come on character and personality issues. he was better than hillary. a lot of people could not take her character and personality were open to biden. a lot of people hated hillary and a lot of people hate donald trump, but not a lot of people hate joe biden. i think that helped him have a moderate personality and helped him win over some of those voters. host: next up, randolph, york, pennsylvania. caller: morning. i don't know how this works. c-span.me being on i was listening and they were talking about -- the: make sure you mute television posted go ahead with your question or comment for daniel allott.

caller: mute my what? host: the volume on your tv. we're going to go to sherman oaks, california. republican line. caller: good morning. merry christmas. i wanted to make a comment for daniel. i am a first time caller on c-span. in 2016, we the people come and i think we the people only, signed, sealed, delivered the presidency. two, and that has not spent 10 seconds in his life in public service. that is because the democratic party failed us. we wanted a change. but they did not give them a chance. created the punches, so as the great economy got us a created as aso great economy, got us a vaccine. this time around, we the people feel a little cheated because of

what has transpired. trumpwe the people voted in 2016, it is hard for us to believe all of the sudden, and that we fired in 2016 all of the sun became the darling of america four years later. any comment from that? guest: i think it is common month trump voters. thus, among voters. they felt they were two. trump himself said that with all of the investigations in the impeachment, was only given a shot. that will set him up well if he wants to run again to say, hey, we need one legitimate term.

trump questioning the election results, i think showing -- broadcasting his voters that he is fighting. i think that point cannot be made enough. for a lot of conservatives and other trump voters have felt for many years they have not had a ,eader who fought for them convinced a lot of his supporters that the attacks on him are actually attacks on them. and he is standing up for them and fighting. and the fact he is been challenging the election results in making these allegations of massive voter fraud, i think deep down he probably knows not is going to work but he wants to convey to his base and the country he is fighting once again and not going to go down without a fight. i think that will set him up well if he wants to run again. you'reonnected folks staying in touch with, reliably conservative publication national review writing in the

latest edition disgrace after defeat right "all in all, the worst thing is that in this presidency and the worst exit of the defeated president in u.s. history. in effort not less infamous for being incompetent." guest: there are not a lot of trump voters who aren't following his lead on this. this is something in terms of the idea there is massive voter fraud going on, yet understand the context of many, many years this has been something -- a couple of stories in the book about conservatives that millions of voters in eligible voters are voting in elections. people,immigrants, dead people voting twice. it is happening. so trump -- this was not something he made up. he was sort of touching on something that conservatives have long else.

was goingng felt this on. it is damaging to the country. themis base, he's telling what they want to hear. host: democrats line, this is don. caller: i am not a trump supporter but i would acknowledge a lot of positive policies i agree with. the problem with trump is -- imagine you have a star basketball player that comes on your team and gives you 40 but heand you went a lot doesn't come to practice half the time, he does not listen to the coach, so on and so forth. what happens is, he poisoned your program. that is what he is done of the country. he has got some things done, but otherost, pitting each

against each other? guest: i like that analogy. before the election, i would say, people vote thinking about trump's policies and he will win because i think their largely popular. did whatel not only he they supported, but set out a clear agenda and pursued and achieved a lot of it. among the few people who changed their minds about trump did not vote for him in 16 but told me that would be in 2020, that is the thing i heard over and over again. out an agendaset and accomplished it so i will vote for him. but the caller also hit on the character issue and the personality. if people are focused on trump's personality when they vote, character, he will lose. i think that is why he lost. among the few voters who voted for him in 2016 and tell me they

would not be in 2020, that is the thing i heard. i think about the woman i met in which kenny, california named lacey, young woman in her 30's who voted for trump, voted for obama before, and then said, look, i agree with a lot of what trump has done but i can't vote for him. the metaphor was maybe after four years of hurricane, it is time for a light drizzle. that is who she voted for in joe biden and i don't think she was alone. 's book "onl allott the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." you wrote it ahead of the 2020 election and wrote, touched on this woman's ago saying in the book -- moments ago site and of the book, if trump loses, it will be because of his defects of character, his impulsiveness, in addition to detail, petty cruelty, and routine dishonesty have turned often exhausted voters who might otherwise

supportive most of the tension between trump's policies and personality as been a dominant theme throughout this book. think about a voter, in robinson county, a man named mark a member of a native american tribe. voters16 obama trump that i followed for the three years. of the 16, 14 voted for trump again. mark was the only one of the 16 who told me in the final minute he would be voting for joe biden. it was not on policy. he agrees with a lot of what trump has time. it was based on personality and what he focused on, the line. he told me, look, -- every time i talked to mark come he was a great interview because he was sort of ambivalent. he describes his feelings for

trump as being a pendulum swinging from negativity to to positivity. when i spoke to him and april he said, look, right now i'm swinging toward negativity oh, if yoump said, want to get the coronavirus test, can get it. mark's wife was not able to obtain the test. for mark, it was more evidence of trump's line. he said -- she wanted a reason. a reason toi want vote for trump. at the end he said, i can't do it. after vote for biden. 2024, if trump chooses to run come due think american supporters can look past those character defects? guest: it depends on a lot of things. it depends on what joe biden and the democrats do. if the overreach and go too far to the left -- one thing i kept hearing in middle america over and over again, the democrats

are moving too far to the left. joe biden, jenna campaign, signaled he would be doing that as well. the campaign, signaled he would be doing that as well. trump's policies are fairly popular. if he continues to embrace the american first and the social conservatism, i think you'll have a good shot. his supporters are not going anywhere. -- republicans are saying, if we can get another candidate who has the trump agenda but without the character flaws, personality quirks, we could win. i think there is a charisma with trump that is underestimated. there is not another politician in america who can bring together 20,000 to 30,000 people on a random evening in rochester. maybe barack obama, but certainly not mike pence or nikki haley or another republican.

if he wants to run again, i think the supporters will be there for him. host: jacky, missouri, independent line. go ahead. caller: good morning. i wanted to comment on how we are focused on donald trump and his endeavors, that we see racism at its core. we seek donald trump and joe biden fighting for power. we have to wait, some of us who are unemployed due to no fault of our own comic get to sit back and watch this. people write books. this is not donald trump's america. this is america. think about it, a lot of the media, a lot of book writers, storytellers are focused on what donald trump does and you all can start with your narrative on trying to unite the country. donald trump come after he gets out of office, yes on issues

that he will not be what you all want him to be, the savior. merry christmas to all. stay safe. i grace be with god. host: daniel allott? guest: with the first vice president-elect is a woman and a minority, that is progress. namealler mentioned the "trump's america." there's a lot of debate over the name of the book. is it trump's america? so much focus of our culture and politics on trump that it is his time, and that is why we titled the book "trump's america." host: i want to go back to the nine areas you covered in researching for the book, you mentioned howard county in our. they're places like ridge county, california, yuri county, pennsylvania. how often did you encounter

minorities, in particular, african-americans who were trump supporters? guest: quite often. i try to seek out people who are different. i would look for immigrants or people of color and i did find quite a few minorities and immigrants as well who supported trump. we saw in the election results this year, a lot of people were surprised how will trump did relative to previous public and candidates among latinos and asian americans, among black men. do -- a lott had to of reporters and people on the coast are a bit more sensitive to some of the rhetoric that trump -- some of the things he says that can be taken as racist. a lot of people in the communities are willing to overlook them. i spoke to a lot of immigrants, people from the middle east to said, look, i like this guy --

based on policy. i am not surprised, for instance, among hispanic americans. on policy, they agree with a lot of what the republican party is offering. latinos who come to the u.s. or were born here tend to be very entrepreneurial, small businesses, enterprising. that aligns with the republican message. they're socially conservative on abortion, same-sex marriage, religious freedoms. so they align with trump on a lot of these issues so they're willing to overlook some of the rhetoric. host: michael on the democrats line, crosby, texas. caller: i am a veteran. socialu talk about conservatives, then you talk about trump's base. host: mute the volume on your television.

go ahead with your comment. caller: and a veteran. i am in texas. there are a lot of people down here don't like trump. don't like his policy, whatever that is, because nobody said, ok, i'm going to do this. he said, i am an american first born ofrica was immigrants. where you going to lock ?verybody out in and you talk about trump. then they start talking about obama. obama wasn't running. talking about biden. biden not on the ticket. what about his kids? host: daniel allott, the president throughout his four years in office, played off against the former and compared himself to

the actions taken by the obama administration during the course of his eight years. how often did that come up in conversation with the folks you few.d to? guest: quite a i think the most fascinating group of voters i talked to work the former obama voters who went to trump. 16 now them in six of the nine counties work obama-trump counties. a lot of people swung from one to the other. very different candidates and presidents in terms of policy and personality. what i found -- among those voters, a lot had felt they were duped by obama. he promised to be reaching across the aisle work with republicans, would heal the racial divide. according to them, they felt he did not do that. they were primed to be open to trump's candidacy when he started running. host: next up, richard, maine.

caller: good morning. merry christmas. voted to explain why i for donald trump. when obama got into office, he killed the military. he murdered them. i lost my medical benefits and everything. eight years later, trump gets into office. what you know, i got my benefits back. now i have a 70% disabled pension coming from the government. it is more than my social security. that is why i love donald trump. i'm afraid if biden gets in there, he is going to defund the military again and i will be right back where i was. >> which you almost died. caller: i almost died a few weeks ago and it was able to go to a civilian hospital because

of the law that donald trump passed. i was taking care of and i am still here to love donald trump. host: daniel allott, your reaction? guest: it is a common view among the obama-trump voters. some studies based on 2020 that found about 90% of the obama-trump voters -- it was a demographic that biden felt he could win because these are people who voted for her presidential ticket with his name on it before. but a lot of people i talked to, just like the caller said, happy with trump's policies. but also the idea -- one of the key findings in the book, and this was reinforced in the 2020 election, how few people changed their minds about donald trump with very few exceptions among hundreds of people i talked to.

i raced a couple of the exceptions. a very few. most people, if they supported trump in 2016, supported him again in 2020. if they opposed him in four years ago, even more opposition this time. howe, that underscores primal our politics have become. used more"tribal" is and more in terms of politics. it is a loyalty to your own group or tribe, inside or tribe to be defended at all costs. outside the tribe cardi b chandra even -- outside the tribe are to be shunned or even attacked. the inability to allow for any nuance. trump was either all good or all bad. never in a welcoming was good on this but that on that. it was one way or the other. i was struck by in more formal

interviews, i would talk to people and run through my questions. one question, as i was talking to a trump supporter, i would say, you support the president but is there anything you don't like or his policies you don't support? talking to a trump critic i would say, you don't under president, but is there anything you admire or his policies you support? often, this was the point in the conversation, having a free-flowing discussion and that would come to a halt for about 30 seconds. struggle to think of anything that contradicted their overall assessment of trump. tribal we haveow become. even though there are very few people who change their minds about trump among the hundreds i talked to, it is not people's views of the president changed, it was they became more extreme and deeply entrenched. host: have you heard back from any of the people you interview that i've read the book and said

he pretty much gotten their story right or critical of the way you have been presenting their views in the book? guest: i had one or two that took a few issues. for the most part, people feel i covered them and their counties accurately. a lot of people said, i still don't know where you stand yourself. are you pro trump or anti-trump? they want to know my tribe. along the way, i was writing articles. ori had been misreporting misquoting people or misrepresenting these communities, that would not have allowed me to build up the trust, credibility, and goodwill that i needed in order to get the final story. it was a focus of mind to take my own views and biases -- which i have -- and try to lead them to the side and let my writing be a voice and represent who these people are.

host: you mentioned not being a member of the tribe. is it your sense, the people you interviewed anyway, as a member of the media, you are a member of a tribe? guest: yes. i had to break that down. i had to convince people, and it took a while, that yes, i am part of the media but you can trust me. there's only one way to do that. to keep showing up. to write about people accurately. as i was writing articles people and they come ok, maybe i can trust him. introducedat, i was to more more people. yuri, pennsylvania, a progressive couple, dale and darlene, invited me to their home many times. there in the book. i was trying to get an interview with one of dale's friends who worked at this tool shop and delves convinced it was a trump supporter considering voting for

democrats the next time around. because there were so few people who were switchers, i wanted this interview. every time i would talk to dello and say, do you think you can get me his number or would you introduce me? finally in march 2020 after we built up a level of report interest, i asked him the final time and he called his friend right then and there and spent a few minutes commencing him i was somebody -- even though i was in the media -- that could be trusted. i got to talk to his friend the next day and find the real story. but it took two or three years to do that. host: daniel allott, author of the latest book "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." to jacksonville, florida, independent line. caller: thank you very much. and i say merry christmas am a 41 year watcher of c-span

when it began in 1979. am also vietnam vet. let me say what i think mr. allott, with all due respect them, what is book is up for those of us who are not trump supporters. donald trump tapped into the deep-seated, extremely deep-seated racial -- i would -- oftred african-american people, in particular, minorities to some extent, where we are still the most excoriated racial group of people in america. he touched a nerve in white america that was always there since the inception of slavery we were brought over in 1620 when he was elected president. this man is not only a liar, has

proven to be a liar. he is also a criminal. that is also a part of american history. i know a lot of people out there would disagree with me but i think with my service under combat and seeing my best friend die in vietnam, i am able to talk about this in an honest way of what african-americans and i think this book has just reinforced, maybe a small thank you for bring it up, but i felt that way for a long time. donald trump was the one who escalated it. he is what america will find out if he's ever coming back into office again, the equivalent -- i know, bill, c-span does not like to hear this -- he is the equivalent of what germany was in 1933 that was changed by adolf hitler and the german people are still suffering from what the identity israelis in jewish people during a particular time. host: thank you for your service. daniel, your response?

guest: i think the hitler comparison detracts from the prior point, how divided we are. look, i'm a white guy that went out and talk to a lot of people so take it with a grain of salt. notuld not say race did play a factor for anyone. i am sure it did. but i would say it had more to do with people feeling left behind by the economy, not listened to come and wanting to have dignity. again, when trump forced that america, aodwill to baffled a lot of reporters. how could this guy from new york, probably never been on a farm, how was he able to do that? was it about race? no most of what i heard over and over again was coming he listened to us, acknowledged our work is important, we can't survive as a country on a paying jobs,. low wor

message in 20 16 was, we're going to make america great again and you're going to be part of that. and your values in terms of pro-gun, pro-life, going to church, all of that, is it administration reinforced that as well. it is more about giving those people a sense of dignity in the work that they do. acknowledging it is important. than it had to do with race. host: president trump's message this morning from mar-a-lago, "merry christmas." mentioned as, you you are writing the book as the pandemic was beginning in earnest, or wrapping up your reporting. you write about the pandemic that whether you look -- took the virus sears are not, was treated as a political act, as a way of signaling which side you're on, which tribe you are

in, whether you thought the virus was an international pandemic that exposed trump's fitness for office or part of a media created hysteria to we can trump. there seem to be no room between those two extreme views. do you think those views are the same today? guest: i think we can all agree those views continue in terms of how people feel about the pandemic. one thing i feel -- i kind of learned in all my interviews over time, i could accurately predict how people would come down on almost any issue. whether it was the judge kavanaugh hearings or the nfl kneeling protests for the coronavirus, i can predict how people felt about those issues based on their answer to one question -- how do you feel about donald trump?

what you think about trump? based on that i can predict, come your probably going to think coronavirus is not that big of a deal or that it was designed to damage trump at of the election. if you are not a trump supporter, you think it is the worst thing that is ever happened and trump did a terrible job on it. it comes down on all of these issues to trump. that is why i found even during ,he pandemic at the beginning you know, i did my duty and reached out to people one final time and said, how do you think trump is performing in terms of combating the virus? maybet any exceptions, one, everyone came down along tribal or party lines. host: bob, pittsburgh, pennsylvania. our democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to make production. two years from now, gas is five

dollars a gallon, electric is up 40%. newspaper reporting will blame on trump. here's a word yet to start using, anglo phobic. like people's hatred for white people. you can see that. the last blackeye that call. they call is racist, they are anglo phobics. you could hear in their voices. host: we will go to john, democrats line. caller: i want to preface my statement by saying first i have a degree in public administration. ever certificate in ministry and another certificate in immigration law. going back to my v.a. in public administration, donald trump forgets that part of his role is that of administration and

governing. it seems to me he's been making a lot of use of executive orders . in terms of values, my values come from my faith, which indicate that politics from the common good and service and it is all based on truth, freedom, justice love, which leads to a tranquility of order. he definitely is not contributed to that. finally, immigration law. he has treated immigrants, conflated criminal violations thencivil violations, and his misuse of the power of -- well, we know what is going on in terms of the various pardons. thank you so much. merry christmas and happy new year. did any ofl allott,

the folks you interview bring up -- the parts happen pretty much recently, but bring up the allegations and charges of things like cronyism and insider information in the trump administration? guest: along tribal lines you could tell if there were trump supporters, often they were not hearing about some of these allegations or they would be very dismissive. if they were trump critics, he would be the first thing that would talk about. i remember getting back to the point of not allowing for any kind of nuance and assessing trump, i bring up some of these things. if i was talking to maybe a conservative christian trump supporter i would say, well, what about his affairs and some of the character flaws? they're very dismissive of it. if i was talking to progressive, i would say, how about how well the economy is doing?

they would not give him credit. or bring up his progressive else's like the first step act, major reform of the colonel justice system in many years. disproportionally helped minorities and poor people who populate the prison system. he signed the bill into law. because it contradicted their view of the president as being an irredeemable bigot, they would often tell me they had not heard of it. these are people who are we otherwise. they would say, oh, i have to look that up. it comes down to where you stand on trump? do you even hear the information and how seriously are you taking that. text as well. by referring to previous color, jan in illinois has come up trump falsely claims credit for obama military and veteran benefits.

fact-check thing he says." daniel allott, mike s, when the guests say democrats have moved too far to the left, what does that mean specifically? means i think it proposing degree new deal, single-payer health care, abortion on demand, free college , defundingese things the police -- all of that doesn't really play well in middle america, putting with former democrats that i spoke to. i remember talking to some farmers, two-time obama voters, registered democrats, and these people were open to not voting for trump but they said -- this is before biden got the nomination. there's nobody on the democratic side who is a bit more moderate. just give me some reason, they wanted some reason to vote against trump and for a democrat but i could not see it because they felt they were moving too

far to the left. host: the independent line. caller: hello. can you hear me good? host: yes, we can. caller: lit the have a second to get my point out. the people observed in this book must have been ill-informed or something. .here somebody contradictions people must have tuned into the commercial break but not the actual show. with all this talk about obama and people who felt he failed, does the author ask, why did they think he failed? obama saved the country from freefall. he turned the economy around from a disaster. what has trump tend to turn the from the covid disaster we are in now? only one of those two presidents has proven he can turn it around and actually showed it. when it comes to the people he interviewed, when they talk

about obama failed, do they mention anything about mitch mcconnell and the republicans obstruction during that time, were obama did initially try to reach across the aisle and be a bipartisan president but mitch mcconnell had an initial agenda where, what, the first day or even before obama stepped into office, he said his own objective was to make obama a one term president and was up and thepartner whole side with him. and that guy talked about health care, the veteran called in about health care. he gained benefits. what about trump and his cronies and place --ove well, no replacement, but remove health care for over 20 million americans? what about the farmers? talked about the farmers. but what about the recession that trumps trade war dead for

the farmers to where suicide rate went up, there was a recession in that segment, that industry, and had undergo a $30 million to $40 million bailout? host: lots of topics to address, daniel allott. guest: yes, obama did make some overtures in the beginning to try to live the republicans and was met with resistance. the second term he did govern quite a bit under executive order, just as trump has done quite a bit. in a terms of who i talk to, i did not go in and look for a single type of person. it was very organic most of the time. not just trump voters were former obama voters in the book, it was anyone. i would meet people, go to any event, whoever was willing to talk to me, basically, was who i sought out.

on the trade work, i think that is one of the issues where i feel like i was seeing in real-time a lot of the media were nudging a very good job of covering what was going on in middle america during trump's term. i think during the trade war, a lot of farmers were getting hit harder because of the reciprocal tariffs china was placing on some of the agricultural commodities. their bottom lines were going down and they were upset. the stories i was reading while rural iowa, farmers who are angry at trump and they may consider voting against him in 2020. that is not what i heard at all. i heard people were supportive, the farmers, even though they were hard hit. they were supportive of the trade war, that trump was the first president who challenged china and was following through and trying to keep them accountable to play fairly in trade.

if you look at pulling at that time, his popularity among farmers went up during the trade war. whichk that is one way some of the media depictions were off-base. i remember talking to one man, a diehard democrat, who hated everything about trump except on the trade issue. the trade war with china was the one thing he supported. host: probably any unfair question because you have to face up to the other counties, but you have a favorite of the nine counties you visited? guest: you're right, it is unfair. i met some great people can have great friends in iowa. probably the most interesting county was robinson county, north carolina. if you have ever driven down 95, stuck in lumberton, the most racially diverse role county -- rural county in america. two thirds minority.

good for obama twice and swung for trump about it for trump largern 2020 by an even margin. it is based on trade. one of the hardest hit counties based on nafta. trumpost a lot of textile thing free-trade -- we're going to renegotiate the trade deals most of that gets back to the issue of listening. a lot people said he is listening to us. very socially conservative. including the minority voters. i met some great friends all over. i was a howard county is a great place, here he county, pennsylvania, has a lot going on part. robinson, politically speaking, is interesting. host: jason, montgomery, alabama. caller: good morning and merry christmas.

mr. it comes to trump, allott, i appreciate your $10 words to describe him and encourage nuance in his policy, but it does a disservice to the intellect of the average person, especially black americans in this country, and i nouri's in general -- minorities in general. it camouflages trump is -- has always been who trump seeks to be. there is never any ambiguity. this president only exposed, us's say, less diverse among mind from comes to lbj "if you convince the lowest white and he is better than the best black men, will let you pick his pocket. if you give him someone to look down, he will empty his pocket for you."

con encapsulates' trumps and what he is done and people who support them, specifically when you look at the election fraud and how he is made money lying to people who willfully accepted the lie about him losing the election to give him money. now he's going to turn around and use that money to do whatever he does in the future, whether it is a tv show or channel or run again, whatever the case may be, or how he spoke about the people who donated to "we build the wall" when they got scammed by steve bannon. yes no concern for anyone, but he was able to tap into a grievance and wanamaker, specifically after the election of the first black president, that allowed him to con them and they willfully -- willfully let him do it. there is no ambiguity about that. i appreciate your efforts and trying to be neutral down the trying to psychoanalyze

-- it is not that complicated. it is really not. i is appreciated but generally think it as anything to the conversation other than over complexity. host: daniel, the areas you covered, do you think these areas were headed in this direction anyway and it happened to be donald trump? guest: i think so. what he did tap into is a grievance, but i think it had a not less to do with race tha this idea of dignity, of being listened to and feeling they work left behind. i said that before. person by person, i am sure race played a role for some trump supporters. just as i am sure biden supporters. a few times i encountered racism on the road, again coming from a white guy, but it wasn't always white expressing racism toward

blacks. it was across the spectrum. i would have a question for the caller, i don't know if i can do that, but how would he attribute trumps improvement among black men in the 2020 election and other minorities in terms of his performance? host: our color left but he does pose a good rhetorical question. daniel allott, appreciate your time, opinion editor at "the hill" and author of the new book we've been talking about "on the road in trump's america: a journey into the heart of a divided nation." thank you so >> you're watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government, created by america's television companies as a public service, and brought to you today by your television provider.

>> c-span's "washington journal." everyday, we're taking your calls live on the air on news of the day and we discussed policy issues that impact you. this week as our authors a serious. four trump organization -- former trump organization executive, with herbert, what my -- her book, what 18 years of working with donald trump tells me. and the republican party and the incoming biden administration. watch c-span's "washington journal" live at 7:00 eastern friday morning. be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and tweets. >> congress returns next week to vote on overturning president trump's the authorization bill,

sending military pay programs and policy. he rejected to a provision to remove confederate names and wanted to eliminate social media company protections that were added to the bill. congressional leaders are working on federal spending before the government shuts down monday night. house democrats will try to increase stimulus checks. congress approved $600 per individual. $2000ent trump called for and democrats will try to make that happen with new legislation when congress returns next week. white house coverage here on c-span. watch the senate live on c-span2. seven u.s. senator's are leaving at the end of this term. for our retiring. three last reelection. before congress left for the holiday, they paid tribute for those who will not be returning in january.