about the state of politics including the inauguration and senate impeachment of president trump. be sure to join. washington journal is next. ♪ host: the remainder of the presidency of donald j. trump is being talked about in terms of hours. he will depart the white house wednesday morning and after a farewell ceremony will leave to begin his post presidency in palm beach, florida as joe biden is sworn in at noon wednesday. good morning and welcome to washington journal for this sunday. we spend the first hour talking about the president's political future, based somewhat on a pole from pew researc.

they showed nearly 70% said donald trump should not continue to be a major political figure. what do you think? democrats (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, independent and others (202)-748-8002. you can also send us a text using (202)-748-8003 and tell us your name and where you are texting from. on twitter @c-spanwj and facebook at facebook.com/c-span. the pew research poll was done the eighth through the 12th of january and they published it late this week. here is the major piece out of that we are getting -- starting off on this hour. the majority of the people surveyed do not want president trump to remain a political figure. they write 68 say trump should

not continue to come. 29% say he should remain a major figure. they say donald trump is leaving the white house with the lowest job approval of his presidency, 29%, and increasingly negative ratings for his conduct. the share of voters who have rated his conduct has risen to 76% with virtually all the increase coming in poor conduct. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, and for independents and all others (202)-748-8002. the vice president has been using some of the last week or

so to talk about the achievements of the administration, an event we covered yesterday. the vice president tweeting, i couldn't be more proud to report we rebuild our military, restored the arsenal of democracy, and enacted the largest increase in our national defense since the days of ronald reagan. president trump had one event this past week, touting he sees as one of his major achievements in alamo, texas, that is the border wall. >> we join together to celebrate the extraordinarily successful building of the wall on the southern border. before we begin i would like to say free speech is under assault like never before. the 25th b amendment is of zero risk for me but will haunt the biden administration. as the expression goes, be

careful what you wish for. the impeachment hoax is a continuation of the greatest and most vicious witchhunt in our country and is causing anger and division and pain far greater than most people will ever understand. which is very dangerous for the usa, especially at this tender time. now i would like to briefly address the events of last week. millions of our citizens watched on wednesday as the mob stormed the capitol. as i have said throughout my administration we believe in respecting america's history and traditions, not tearing them down. we believe in the rule of law, not violence or rioting. because of the pandemic, horrible enemy, and are tremendous excess developing a vaccine years before it was

thought remotely possible -- nobody thought was going to be possible. they said it was going to take five years, seven years. all advisors singing would take seven years, five years, 10 years maybe. but we did it like i said we would. host: your calls coming up on the political future of donald trump. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, (202)-748-8001 for republicans, all others (202)-748-8002. we will get to those in a moment. we are joined by the white house correspondent for the washington post to talk about the last few days of the trump presidency. good morning. guest: good morning. host: showed president trump in alamo, texas. one of his only appearances. how was he spending the last few days? guest: he is starting to realize

he is going to be losing office and preparing for his time in the post presidency. he is preparing to travel to south florida where he has residence at mar-a-lago and will be spending time there to see what influence he will have over the republican party. he is currently facing an impeachment trial where he could be convicted and barred from holding office in the future. he is looking at legal options for protecting himself from that negative outcome, but also looking at his political sway in the party and trying to make sure he continues to have influence going forward. he has money that he has raised and he can use that for a number of different things, including interfering and involving himself in primaries with republicans and taking revenge upon republicans that voted against his efforts to overturn

the election. he is also looking at his children and may be having them run for office in the future. the ivanka trump is looking to moving down to florida as well. the president is preparing a new political face in south florida. there is not much on the agenda in terms of official events. all the things we are looking at concerning the president are his plans for the future in the post presidency. host: our guest contributing to the washington post. trump flees washington and seeks rehabilitation in mag oasisa. what about mike pence? he has had a few events talking about the achievements of the administration. what does the immediate future and possibly his political future look like? guest: the last week and a half we have seen the vice president

player more vice presidential role. he is having a farewell tour, talking about the accomplishments of the administration. he took a hands on approach after the riot in the capitol. reassuring the federal government was on the case and ensure the capital would be secured. we have seen him traveling. we are taking a few more trips between now and the end of the term and he is looking at his future as well as to whether or not he needs to make a clean break from the president to chart the path of the republican party in the future, which might include trying to get past trumpism and focus on the kind of values mike pence had before he became vice president. that is his potential political

future. whether or not he can become the bannerman for the party that has been taken over by trump. someone who is more of a traditional conservative, whether that wing will be able to have a resurgence in the aftermath of president trump's presidency and whether mike pence is the kind of guy to lead that or leave that to somebody else who can take up that mantle. for the short term he seems to be playing the role of president the last few days as president trump has been largely silent. his political future will depend on how close he wants to remain to president trump or whether or not he wants to put distance between himself and trump and chart a path for the republican party with him or someone else at the helm. host: one more thing, maybe two. given the president elect's

schedule, have you gotten any sense of how covering the biden white house will be different from the trump white house? guest: we do expect covering the biden white house be more predictable, more organized. they expect to have daily briefings. we do not expect biden to be tweeting as much as president trump. you are unlikely to see as much abrupt policy changes the way we have seen with president trump. for example, the most recent stimulus bill. at the last minute president trump blew it up and said i don't like this bill. i am going to consider not signing this. it should have $2000 checks. with the biden administration we are likely to see a more coordinated process. if somebody speaks something out of the administration, they are speaking on behalf of the president after a thorough policy process. there will be less chaos and potentially less dramatic news.

but they do face a number of challenges. they are likely to face -- we are going to be more focused on policy and the policy prescriptions and less on palace intrigue, the personalities, the tweets, the things that added drama and reality show style flare. that is not really biden's style and does not appear to be what reporters are likely to see. host: do we know when joe biden and jill biden will arrive in washington for the inauguration? guest: they are expected to arrive shortly before inauguration. they are likely to stay overnight at blair house before the january 20 inauguration. they could be there as early as monday or tuesday and really go through the normal process. any president about to be sworn in -- now this will be a very

different inauguration with covid-19, with the security crisis, with 25,000 strips on troops on the street -- but despite that they are likely to prepare for taking office like any other president prepare before them. they are likely to go through the motions to try and restore some sense of normalcy and go through the traditions that have long governed this process, including staying at blair house, traveling together to the capitol, being sworn in on the grounds. that is something they wanted to do. we are expecting those traditions to be upheld. the traditions not upheld are they not expected to meet with president trump, not expected to meet with the first lady, not expected to be that symbolic transition of power, but every other part will hold up. host: toluse olorunnipa covers

the white house for the washington post. thank you for the update. guest: thank you. host: we will continue with our conversation about the president's political future. (202)-748-8000 for democrats, for republicans (202)-748-8001, for independents and all others (202)-748-8002. our guest mentioned the impeachment trial. a tweet last night from the national press secretary for the trump campaign said this, president trump has not yet made a determination as to which lawyer or law firm will represent him for the disgraceful attack on our constitution and democracy known as the impeachment hoax. we will keep you informed. we are going to go to calls and hear from george first in ohio. caller: thank you for taking my call and i appreciate c-span,

especially the washington journal. it is one of the few outlets people can use beside social media. i think president trump will avoid the political scene. that is becoming more dangerous for the democrats. i think president trump made the mistake -- he should have done -- he should've let mike pence take over. i think more americans would have been open to voting for him. host: do you think americans are open to voting for mike pence? caller: yes. he is a good man. i support president trump, but i do not like the way he handled the mike pence situation at the end. he has been loyal. actually, president trump is

going to be more dangerous to the democrats out of the presidency than in. host: antioch, california, brenda on the democrats line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. what i would say to the previous caller is i think he is going to be more dangerous and i agree. i think the federal government needs to really pay close attention to his activities, particularly when it comes to groups like the proud boys and all these other strange groups that he has been supporting all this time that led to what happened in washington, d.c. we can never let him forget that and we cannot act as if it never happened because it did. i think that he is going to be trying to start his own political group made up of these same strange people and a majority of americans, i think,

once they see what he is trying to do and what he is going to do are still not going to support him. and i think the biggest victims in all of this are some of the good people that may have supported him the basically sold their souls to the devil. i think they are going to pay a price for that and i hope they can sleep at night because a lot of them are probably having sleepless nights right now. i hope that biden and kamala will bring us all together, make us more joint as americans, that way we are not adversarial. i am a democrat that does not think all republicans are the devil. i know people who are republican and they are basically good people, we just have a difference of opinion. there is a very big difference between most republicans and what i see from donald trump.

host: thank you from that. clinton, mississippi on the independent line, this is mary. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i think the question was should he be involved in politics after he leaves? host: yes, what is his political future. caller: my goodness, i hope it is something -- political future, i hope he does not have one. donald trump is -- he is a vicious person who seems angry. we do not need all that. we have had four, 5, 6 years of that and his actions and words have made a lot of us physically not well. host: mary, do you see physically not well? caller: yes, yes. host: tell us about that. caller: heart palpitations, high

blood pressure. i am serious. i know a lot of people watching him and listening him be ugly all these years, that is not good on your psyche. i just hope he goes far, far away from politics. but the lady before said, i have lots of republican friends and we just do not discuss it. we do not discuss donald trump because i cannot get to him. host: we go to california. richard on the democrats line. are you there? jack is on the republican line, el paso, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would just like to say i have friends in sydney, australia and

he sent me something from the papers. i thought it was interesting to get some perspective of what the other countries might be thinking about this election. i am going to paraphrase it because i wrote it down in front of me. it says, the extraordinary amount of armored troops in the capitol of the united states of america, washington, d.c., estimated over 50,000, 75,000 is a testament to the illegitimacy of this election and an overthrow of the american system. for says this is the first time in the history of america that

this amount of troops have been necessary to install the president. host: you say that is from a source in, what did you say, australia? caller: sydney, australia. it just goes on to say -- the final line is more or less that every trip out there is a black mark on america. the final thing it says is whether america likes it or not donald trump will serve a second term. [laughter] host: about that. i do not know about the number that that new source indicated in terms of national guards. the figure has been between 20000 and 25,000. what do you think the level of security should be given we are

10 days from the attack on the u.s. capitol? caller: i do not think anything should be necessary. that attack was not done under obama. there was no attack during trump. the reason for the troops is to install a government which the people do not agree with. that is what australia says. host: jack in texas. this article is about executive orders that are ahead. biden plans dozens of executive orders for early days of presidency. president-elect plan to sign dozens of executive orders as he aims to roll back some of president trump's signature policies on immigration and

climate change while taking early action to address the coronavirus crisis. after being sworn in he will rescind the travel ban on several muslim countries, rejoin the paris climate records, extend limits on student loan payments and evictions, and issue a mask mandate on federal property and for interstate travel. incoming white house chief of staff outlined the flurry of activity for biden's first 10 days in a memo to senior staff on saturday. the president-elect yesterday mentioned his science team, his advisors, and talking about one of his pet projects, the cancer moonshot. >> i said i only had one regret. i would not get to be the president to preside over cancer as we know it. god willing on the 20th of this

month as president i'm going to do everything i can to get that done. it is going to be a priority for me in kamala. we know the science is discovery, it is not fiction. it is also about hope and that is america. it is in the dna of this country, hope. we are on the cusp of some remarkable breakthroughs that will fundamentally change the way of life for all life on this planet. we can make more progress in the next 10 years, i predict, van in the last 50 years. we can also face some dire crises in a generation where science is critical of whether we meet peril or promise. host: the question is what is donald trump's political future? the washington post says, trump leaves behind a republican party both broken and still in his

grip. read some of that in a bit. some comments on text and by twitter. this one says, absolutely, in terms of his book future. history will prove he was the best ever. pelosi and those fools will rebut they so says mary in michigan. he will be a major political figure for years to come especially for republicans who watch fox news and do not live in reality unless they come outside the house and go to walmart where all kinds of people are, not just old, rich white men. stephen says, he has no political future. he is headed to a jail cell in new york. a pardon will not save him from a state prosecution. from adam in virginia, i would comfortably say donald trump's political future will be a combination of arduous at best. john you are next in ohio. what do you think? caller: thank you for taking my call.

what i don't understand is the wednesday uprising limited the amount of time people had to do much of anything. they could have implemented the 25th amendment or started the impeachment, but as far as future why have they not invoked the 14th amendment, section 3? that would eliminate his political future altogether. host: dayton, ohio is next. willie on the democrat line. caller: good morning. i do not think president trump has a future. he shouldn't have a future because of all the crimes he has done. he has committed all of these crimes. they have looked over everything. he has done this since the day he came into office and on the day out committed the hugest crime.

people are still seeming to give him a pass for that and i just do not quite understand why. i just do not understand why. host: north beach, maryland, brad is on the independent line. caller: good morning. i am an independent. i consider myself conservative. i think president is going to regroup and come back in four years and come back a lot stronger because he sees with the left and the media is like. he pulled the curtain away from the swamp and he showed us what the evil left is and the media. he has a huge following and i think it will continue. if anyone has physical ailments over his presidency, they may want to seek mental health assistance. that is not normal. he will be back in four years

and i have confidence he will be back in that office. host: do you think you will get enough support from the rest of the party to give him the nomination in 2024? caller: i do. i think he is going to maintain a lot of influence and a lot of power. he was even talking about getting into different media to get the truth out instead of the bias. for instance, even you start your program with the washington post person. come on. [laughs] the washington post? i would like a c-span to have more balance. if you're going to have someone from the washington post, put someone on from another outlet that would give another perspective. i notice the language used by the media when it talks negatively about trump. it is very dramatic. the objectives used are horrible

and awful and terrible, but when they talk about biden they say, things will be back to normal. i guess normal is sending money to china and giving money back to the family. host: would go to douglas in oregon on the republican line. caller: good morning. that last call was great. before i make my point i have a request. anybody in alaska who is listening, can you get through to sarah palin and have her primary, lisa murkowski, to get rid of that woman. president trump has a great political future once he gets past this sordid time. they are trying to with this snap impeachment -- of course

there was no witnesses, no defense -- doing anything they can to prevent him from running in 2024. they are scared of him. not because he did anything wrong but because he is for the people. nancy pelosi is not going. why should she decide this snap impeachment? why shouldn't the people decide? if the censorship now going on will be lifted so the man can talk to us, we will be a lot better off. host: we appreciate your call. back to the washington post on the future of the republican party. did all those republicans who oppose impeachment support the objections of the electoral

college and believe he is not responsible for those storming the capitol? he says, probably far from all. for many this was one example of how the bullying part of trump's playbook has affected the behavior of elected officials. trump has intimidated them, making examples of anyone who challenged or criticized him by threatening them with primary challenges or worse. republicans say they got something of the bargain with the leader most never wanted in 2016. more conservative judges, big tax cuts, regulatory role that, the costs have been sizable. the loss of the senate, house, and white house, which can be laid at trump's feet. we had as a guest on friday someone who served under speaker john boehner. here is what he said. >> i think one of the reasons

donald trump was able to take hold of the republican party is because so many republicans do not like the republican party. and i think there are a lot of reasons for that. there were people who did not like the military venture in iraq and wanted a more inward focusing party. a party that did not care so much about wall street and cared about working people. immigration was a really big flashpoint in a way that the republican party sort of ignored the populace views. i will admit having ignored that wing of the party for so long it got really energized and donald trump recognize that, took advantage of it, and was able to release wally the party whole. what you are seeing now, and

across the country, is the new wave of republicans are trump republicans. he is probably going to have an influence on the party for a really long time and anybody who thinks just because he is out of office means he is off the stage or gone is kidding themselves. members of congress who have been elected recently are all very trumpy if you will. if you watched the impeachment, they are singing from his songbook. the party has been remade in his image and i think that is going to be with us a long time. host: our text line is (202)-748-8003. michael in portland says this, trump will be the most powerful political individual in the country not in office since he has a sizable political base. he cannot be kept even from governing through some family member or other proxy. we will not be free of his influence for a long time. renee in virginia, trump does

not have nor deserve a political future as if his to impeachment are not problematic enough. after the attorney gets through with trump and his family specifically, they will be lucky to see daylight again. as far as i'm concerned the only trump fit for political office is mary trump. arthur in new jersey, there should be no future in politics. he will go down in history making richard nixon's behavior look like nothing. nick is in sarasota, florida on the independent line. caller: good morning. i think president should start a third party. i'm using a working title but the great american party. i would be one of them to join it. i think what they need to do is get a website and have the servers in canada so you do not

have pelosi and the commies messing with it. let's get on with getting rid of the rhinos, these communist democrats. you have republicans if you calls ago that were spot on. anybody who does nothing trump is the greatest president is naive. you look at all the real accomplishments not with the mainstream media cries about. that is what they do not want him around. everybody is tired of the corruption, everybody is tired of rhinos, everybody is tired of the aocs of the political world. we already got 75 million people ready to go. i think others, when they see

the right platform, will sign on, too. host: do you think given what happened on january 6 all 75 million would follow the president over to this new party that you are proposing? would support the president politically whether that be candidacy or his own potential run for presidency? you think all of those people would follow? caller: if they are stillsane. g it is already been proven a lot of this was planned on facebook. it had nothing to do with his speech. those people were up there with a mission and a lot of them were antifa. you have to read between the lines. host: the fbi came out clearly and said those people were not antifa. the fbi made that statement days after the attack. caller: how much can we trust them? host: ok. caller: that is the whole point.

frank in ohio, republican line. caller: i want to go back to that guy that said trump pulled the curtain back on the government. he pulled the wool over the american voters. this guys terrible and he needs to go away. this reminded me of the push in germany. my great great great grandfather fought the civil war to keep this country together and to keep that stupid flight out of the capitol building. you have some more on way to get around. he turned this into a battle of will. we will be at war over this. host: here's one senator's take on the state. ben sasse writing in the atlantic, qanon is destroying the gop from within. just published yesterday. eugene goodman is an american

hero at a pivotal moment on january 6. the veteran officer single-handedly prevented untold bloodshed. staring down an angry advancing mop he retreated up a marble staircase, calmly wielding his baton and calling out their position to his fellow officers. still alone and standing a few yards from the chamber where senators and vice president mike pence had been certifying the electoral college vote, goodman lured dozens away from an unguarded door of the senate. the leader of that mob, later identified as douglas jensen, wo re a t-shirt with the insignia of the qanon conspiracy theory. supporters believe a righteous donald trump is leading them in a historic quest to expose the government's capture of a global

network of cannibalistic pedophiles. now trump's own vice president is in on it too. jensen "wanted to have his t-shirt seen on video so that q could get the credit." in a new red letter day in u.s. history, not just because it was the time the capitol had been ransacked since the war of 1812, but because a subset of invaders were attempting to disrupt a constitutionally amended meeting kidnapped the vice president and somehow forced him to declare trump the victory. the mob ultimately injured scores of law enforcement officers. the attack led to the deaths of two officers and four americans, but the toll could have been worse. police located pipe bombs at the democratic and republican national committees. they discovered a vehicle loaded with weaponry and what prosecutors are called homemade

napalm bombs. that was part of senator sasse's writing. this is jean in detroit. caller: i hope his chances of being in public office r0. i consider him an enemy of the state and more importantly i consider him an enemy of the word of god. i keep asking myself all these people that support him, where is god in their lives? i feel we need to restore -- donald trump is the opposite of what the word of god since we are supposed to be. he is a liar, he is a deceiver who has people believing the lie is the truth. he is full of pride and we are

supposed to be humble. he is an author of lies and that is what the devil is. even the color he uses, red, is the color we must associate with the general. host: john is next in connecticut. caller: good morning. trump is going to be busy staying out of courts in jail. he is going to be busy going to foreign countries to save his companies. another thing, this guy, once he leaves office, he still gets briefed by intelligence. that is the major thing. this guy is compromised. he is no good. he should just go to jail and that is it. host: roy is in austin, texas on the republican line. caller: good morning. it blows my mind listening to these people talk.

first, i think trump is going to be itching to see were his future as because nobody really knows at this point. what blows my mind is these people who sit there and talk about how trump is a criminal. the one lady said he is not godly. need i remind her it was the democrats the took prayer out of school, not republicans, back in the 1970's. when they talk about trump's crimes they can never list one. how is it possible that can gloss over joe biden's lies, his plagiarism, his corrupt nature, hunter biden's laptop, pelosi's constitutional crimes, schumer's constitutional crimes. what about those? we have the rule of law that applies to everyone but they forget what that is about. i just need somebody to try and find a way to explain to me how these people cannot acknowledge the crimes of the democratic

party, which are blatant, and blessed donald trump who owes the only president -- i am 57 years old and have been voting a long time -- the only president that has ever fulfilled his campaign promises in four years. host: heavy security continues around the white house and capitol mall in advance of the inauguration on wednesday. joe biden will be inaugurated at noon. the wall street journal with the headline, man arrested at one of the checkpoints. authorities arrested a virginia man who drove into the capital security checkpoint with a gun, 500 rounds of ammunition, and unauthorized credentials. just a bit of an update. this is a tweet from the washington post. man arrested with glock had proper police pass, the

police had not communicated that to the secret service and others. he has no extremist ties and cooperated with officers. he was released and cleared from further investigation. new york city, ted on the democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. my belief is that our soon to be departed president trump will continue to pick the pockets of all his believers. i think that is what he is about this point and i would appeal to my republican friends who, when they are asked to make these donations to his cause, that they think about the average pickpocket who would try to remove some of your dollar bills out of your wallet and you would say, why is this type of

salesman asking me to take money out of my wallet? trump is no different. he is asking you to take money out of your wallet and he has come up with a storyline to make you believe you should be separated from your own money. i would tell my republican friends, keep your money in your wallet and listen to what he does. he is trying to get your money for his own purposes. it is not required to use the money for the republicans. it always comes down to the personal matter. the reason we have not been to war is not necessarily only because trump is just incompetent and could not handle the problems that would arise if, god for bid, we went into a war situation. he is incompetent to handle the coronavirus. he is incompetent to handle the big problems that face this country. it does not fit into his version

of the reality show trump presidency. he is all about the fame, all about the fortune, all about running a tv show called "presidency trump." host: nicholas in new york. go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think you do a great job. i think you're are fairly unbiased. i think you guys do great. i am a supporter of his and i'm an independent. i saw a lot of his kids, and i believe his oldest son, he was very energetic like his father. for some reason, maybe he has a

political future. as far as what trump is going to do i do not see him running. i could see him starting a media. as an independent i know that we do not have much of a stronghold in culture. politics is always downstream and i tentatively believe that. we could definitely see donald trump starting some media. he is a businessman. i could see him doing that as a foreign business. host: this is the front of the

reporting. grand finale, the pardons, florida retreat. this is from the new york times, hotels will not host fundraiser with senator josh hawley. fighting for missouri a political action committee with mr. hawley was good to host a family-friendly orlando weekend with the senator at the lowe's portofino bay. tickets were being sold for $5,000 depending on the group but loews said it was called off

after the riot which many democrats and republicans blamed, in part, on mr. hawley and his party who supported president trump's efforts to stop the certification of joe biden's victory. we are horrified at all those who supported and incited the violence. in light of those events, and for the safety of our guests, we have informed the host of the february fundraiser it will no longer be held at loews hotels. mr. hawley sharply criticized the decision. in new york city on the republican line, this is michael. caller: yes, i have been a republican for 20 years and i am trying to grasp all of these actions and facts that have been presented. i tried to give mr. trump a

chance, but it just seems like he has lied to us this whole time. that is probably one of the reasons i'm going to become a democrat. i'm going to register as a democrat in a couple of weeks. i think the republican party is being shammed by mr. trump and you need to wake up and smell the coffee. he is taking you to the bottom. ms. pelosi, i applaud what you are doing. host: democrat line in murdock, nebraska, john. caller: i am a democrat. i think if we want to bring healing to our country what we need to do is roll the scenario back and properly prosecute hillary clinton, james comey, peter strzok, and lisa page. if you want to find peace between the parties, first you have got to find honesty within your own party and after we did

what we did to president trump in the first two years of his presidency, before we can really move forward and expect the right to accommodate or meet us in the middle, we have got to be honest about our own crimes and we have got a lot of criminals within our party that need to be properly prosecuted. in order to establish legitimacy within this nation, we are a nation of laws. we are a nation of laws that is supposed to operate under those laws and we saw a criminal, an absolutely criminal act pulled on donald trump. as many of my voting cohorts sat and clapped. they should think about what they are clapping for, the demise of our republic. and the sham prosecution we

pulled against president trump -- host: we have 10 more minutes. the question is what is president trump's political future? we kind of base this off of pew research surveys after the attack on the capitol. they say only half the republicans and republican leaning independents, 52%, says trump bears any responsibility. 79% do not think he should be removed from office. virtually all democrats and democratic leaning, 95%, says he bears some responsibility and 83% favor his removal. reporting on the further evidence gathered from the attack on wednesday this is the hill. the headline is, police seized alarming numbers of guns.

they stormed the capital in an effort to stop the certification of the 2020 results. details revealed in court documents of the past week painting a disturbing picture saying demonstrators flocked to the capitol prepared for violence. it is the beginning of a lengthy federal investigation. also suggests the riot the ran over congress could've been worse. ken on the independent line in middletown, connecticut. host: you are on the air. caller: i am an independent and a few days ago i was watching and i saw a fbi director james comey being interviewed. host: yeah. caller: he was suggesting are

sent president trump -- said president trump should be prosecuted. he was not really for the country. he said he would prosecute president trump, but i watched him when he gave the speech about hillary clinton, when he found her not liable for the email scandal. he said no prosecutor would take that case and a lot of prosecutors said they would have taken the case. he is saying -- or he did say -- she did commit a crime -- did not commit a crime because it was not her intention. how can they prove trump committed a crime? how can they prove what his intentions were?

he did not say to storm the capitol. host: do you think a senate trial on this would clear president trump of that? caller: i hope so. are they psychiatrists? do they know what it is in someone else's mind? host: we want to keep you updated on the day before inauguration. a whole slate of confirmation hearings for the incoming administration. coming up tuesday we have coverage on the c-span network for retired general lloyd austin to be secretary of defense, alejandra mayorkas, antony blinken for secretary of state, janet yellen nominated for treasury secretary, and avril haines as director of national intelligence. check c-span.org for specific information and our coverage plans on a very busy tuesday.

from the review section of the wall street journal the headline on the analysis piece, where trump came from and where trumpism is going. in short, the problem has been the inability or failure to separate trump and trumpism. former governor of ohio, the party chose mr. trump's negative populism which saw scapegoats and defined itself by what it was against, rather than a positive populism defined by what was for. ultimately a movement born of many americans' legitimate concern about globalization and the feelings of alienation from the nation's political, and cultural, and financial elite. the bond he chose to build with those on the outer edge of society, who shared that tendency, the culmination on the march on the capital in which

mainstream trump supporters were overshadowed by those swinging fire extinguishers at cops and a man wearing a cap auschwitz sweatshirt. now it is whether they can sort through the debris and carry a mainstream version of the message. a few more calls. in ohio we hear from ron on the republican line. caller: how are you doing? i just think the republicans and democrats need to back down a little bit. i know trump is probably getting up in age where he is not going to do anything and it is pretty much put him in a cage which is not right. i do believe a lot of this stuff -- when the speech was going on they were already starting to raid the capitol. that does not really make sense because normally they listen for hours to listen to him talk.

why would it start before hand? but i think it is pretty much over for him because of what the democrats are doing. and they are coming for all republicans. it is just not right and it does feel that way. you might not feel that, but i'm telling you with all the democrats can do and the republicans can't, the republicans are bad people -- we are not. i have met a lot of democrats. they are good people. but then you have the far-leftis ts and the far-rightists. it is just not right. if nothing happens soon, it is going to be a war and i don't want that. host: thank you. a couple of comments on text and twitter. travis in ohio, i think trump will continue as a major influence, but i do not think he will hold office again. steve says, he has no political future. who would align themselves with him? you met have to change banks or

credit card companies. i am scared to call on the republican line. democrats have a long way in making us a one party system. this one says, his political future is in social media. in ann arbor, michigan, diane. caller: hello. i have noticed for four years now trump holding his hand up -- i'm getting to the question -- holding his hand up and in a fist. if you put his fingers straight up, it would be the image of hail hitler did my opinion. you can see it in photos of him. i say it is a callout, shout out to the nazis and the caller: good morning.

i think his future is no political future. maybe being a useful idiot. other than that nothing. the people who believe him and love him, i guess there were a lot of good people at the capital smashing policeman. those are some good people, would you not say? host: more ahead on washington journal. coming up next we will talk to ben author at university of massachusetts law professor to talk about right wing extremism in the united states. particularly in the wake of the attack on the capital. later the hills rita wilson -- hill's reid wilson talks about the state of washington. ♪ >> rioters breached security

and caused extensive damage to the u.s. capitol for the first time since british troops burned the building in 1814. we visit the original production of the capital taking you inside and through time, for the majority of art, architecture for the home of congress. granted special access into thousand six by congress to grant public spaces and private rooms of limits to the public. what's the capital at 8:00 eastern on c-span deathwatch the capital at -- watch the: 8:00 eastern on c-span. >> the cabinet confirmation hearings have begun for the biden administration. the first hearings include national intelligence, homeland security, state, treasury,

defense, watch the confirmation hearings on c-span, ondemand at c-span.org or listen on the radio app. ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3 i swing the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. today at 2:00 eastern a history of talks about the 1945 battle of iwo jima and the strategic importance to the american and japanese forces. at 6:00 p.m. on a mac and artifacts, a smithsonian curator share some of the museum's one-of-a-kind artifacts that tell the story of the first half century of aviation. then on the presidency a look back as george h.w. bush

announces the bombing of iraq and the start of the persian gulf war followed by the state of the union address. what american history tv today on c-span3 deathwatch american history tv today on c-span3. -- watch american history tv today on c-span3. host: joining us is a professor, director of criminal studies in criminology to talk to us about right wing extremism in the united states in the wake of the attack on the capital. he is also the author of the book american salads inside right wing domestic terrorism. good morning to you. guest: thank you for having me. host: we start off with the headline we are seeing at the hill saying house panels review of capital right. let us say you are called to

testify and asked about the roots of the attack on the capital. where would you say those began? guest: we have in the united states a robust infrastructure of far-right groups and organizations that for the last few years are escalating their activities, operations, recruitment efforts. anyone listening to their voices statements, propaganda would have acknowledge the fact that we should expect escalation and increase in the number of violent attacks. it is important to remember the people who stormed the capital are members of groups that see the federal government as an intrusive, aggressive entity that tries to undermine their constitutional rights, freedoms. what the sea as the stealing of

elections is another manifestation of the corrupt nature of the federal government that they believe is hijacked by actors trying to undermine the american way of life. what we have seen is a combination of several years of escalation, other than aiming to undermine the legitimacy of our government. host: let me back up, you are the director of the security study program and the criminology department. if you talked about seeing activity and tracking activity. . how far does this go back to some of this predate the trump administration? guest: the increase of this

activity is the rise of the american far-right in 2008. the action of the first african-american president, the economic recession as well as some other factors led to a dramatic spike in the level of violence and hate crimes. that was the jump. since through thousand eight we are seeing an increase in the level violence, level activity -- level of violence, level of activity. this is not a new phenomenon. this is something we have been dealing with for more than a decade. i am talking about the reemergence of a new group such as oath keepers, this new wave of far-right extremism and violence is something we have been seeing for more than a decade. not something unique to the last four years. host: what have you seen in

terms of the efficacy of these groups? their ability to recruit other members and spread their message via social media, the internet. guest: there are several factors that facilitated affective recruitment for these groups. the rhetoric from many political leaders that lend legitimacy to fringe theories. more and more mainstream clinically, ways to legitimize these groups. help these groups to mobilize support. it is important to note many of these groups were effective in the recruitment of law enforcement and military veterans as well as active duty. looking at the prominent militia

groups, they were able to penetrate law enforcement and military in terms of rec ruitment. this is concerning because it allows them to present more legitimate images. they can argue many of their members are people who risk their lives for our nation. it provides them access to operational knowledge, knowledge of how to deal with security situations. the sort of -- these are the trends that are concerning. host: we are talking about right wing extremism in the united states, (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 republicans. independents (202) 748-8002. what is your take on qanon?

are they more than a fringe conspiracy 30 have they become more of a militant group? militarized for lack of a better term? guest: it is important to remember why we have this tendency to draw clear lines between these groups, in reality there is overlap. many members of qanon adopted anti-governmental conspiracy theories. many of them embraced anti-semitic, xenophobic sentiments. there's a lot of overlap and interaction between the groups on the far-right. a lot of them were able to connect with the more mainstream or popular conspiracy theories, hijacking of the federal government. talking about the tendency of

the federal government to undermine constitutional freedoms. we are seeing a merger or overlap between the different groups. if you look at the crowd that stormed the capital, we'll talk about regular trump supporters but members of some of the more active militia groups. as well as members of white supremacy, nazi groups. under this umbrella of stealing the election narrative we see the coalescence of multiple groups. this should be a concern. host: the homeland security department in september raised concern over some of these groups. part of their statement said, loan offenders in small cells of individuals motivated by adverse array of factors would post the

primary terrorist threat to the united states. we assessed the white supremacist extremists who are networking with like-minded persons abroad will pose the most persistent and lethal trend. what is your take of the ability of dhs or fbi to thwart violence by these groups? guest: i am less concerned about the more robust corporate groups. it is easier to monitor activities, communications. i am concerned about smaller cells or individuals. think about the el paso shooter, pittsburgh shooter, all of these were members of online communities, many of them felt strong connection with these groups. they embraced the ideologies. eventually they operated independently.

we can also think about smaller groups or cells of malicious or far-right groups. that can feel frustrated, angry, especially as we see the purge in social media. the risk is they will feel under siege, they will let frustration and anger cross a threshold that will push them into violence. that is the main concern of dhs and the fbi. this is challenging to track. host: clearly groups like the proud boys, they made their presence clearly known at rally in washington in mid december and photos have shown members of the proud boys at the attack on the capital in a ranger formation to head to one of the entrances. how threatening is a group like

them? guest: the proud boys similarly to the oath keepers and other groups includes a substantial number of members who have military, security experience. we have seen many of those people who were indicted were facing lawsuits are people that have some military experience or security experience. they represent a threat. i am less concerned about what will happen next week in d.c., i am concerned about the isolated cells and individuals all over. that feel the urge to do something as a result of the perception the system is corrupt, they are under siege,

facing the steel of an election. they truly believe in that. these individuals feel the nation is under threat. they feel their rights are violated. their ability to counter that is diminishing, as a result they can fly to some extreme -- slight to some -- slide to some extreme measures. host: are you concerned about the state capitals with armed protesters meeting armed security forces? guest: we should all be concerned. i hope we learn the lessons from january 6. when you have a large crowd, many other the members of that crowd are weaponized. that presents challenges.

that demands resources from law enforcement. that undermines the ability to maintain track on other groups, individuals and cells that might do something in other parts of the country. arie perliger -- host: arie perliger is a professor at university of massachusetts, lowell, he is the author of american salads, right-wing terrorism. we will hear from the independent line in texas first. caller: the republican party has morphed into a socially acceptable fascist movement. he was wrong when he said the rioters were antigovernment, they are not antigovernment, their special loved when they came down on the black panther party. they want -- they were not there

to overthrow the government, -- they only participated as an oppressive measure against blacks. donald trump came here from a european nation in the late 1900s -- early 1900s yet he claims he has some cultural connection to the confederacy. what you see is the culmination of what we saw in oklahoma city, which was a response to ruby ridge. right-wing terrorists have always been here. the white citizens council, the ku klux klan, all the voter suppression as well as violence and lynchings. what you see is why people to have a president that normally has a dog whistle but april horn that has carte blanche. i would like to mention -- was killed by capitol police when

she took a wrong turn, a black woman with her daughter in the backseat. but the capitol police allowed these people to enter the building, no resistance, no violence. host: we will get a response from our guest. guest: i agree with malik. the white supremacy groups and movement always existed since at least the mid-19th century. what is different is some of these groups feel that they are being legitimized by mainstream political leaders. some of these groups were able to mobilize substantial crowds. this is something we have not seen in that capacity. the fact we see that many of these groups were able to gain presence within our institutions. several qanon followers are congressman. the difference is that the

far-right was never able to gain so much visibility and presence the way we see today. also gain so much legitimacy. in this context, i think the rhetoric of our leaders was instrumental. when leaders are willing to embrace some of these groups or their ideas that provides the legitimacy and helps in mobilizing people. host: how do these compare to radical left-wing organizations like antifa? guest: when i am being asked about antifa and the left and the far left, i prefer to go to the data and numbers. the level of far-right violence is much more substantial than what we see on the left. we have a lot of left-wing militant groups in the 60's and 70's. left-wing terrorism declined in the 80's and 90's.

we have seen some environmental groups using some violent tactics. we have seen the rise of antifa, what we do not see on the left is that level of organizational coordination. we do not see systematic violence, attempts to undermine law enforcement authorities or the government. in terms of the numbers, the level of violence is much lower than what we see on the other. it is not a partisan issue it is about the data. far-right violence exceeds far-left violence. it is not that we are not aware that there are not far-left militant groups, some other events slide to violence. when you talk about systematic violence organized by groups that have substantial

infrastructure, this is something that we see on the right side. host: next up ed from cedar rapids, iowa, republican line. caller: hello. host: high there. caller: i was -- host: hello there. caller: i was wondering, since it was brought up by your guest -- voting which we all deplore. there should never be violence especially the storming of the capitol building. i have yet to hear your guest talk about what is the fbi knew and failed to act upon to make sure that something of this nature never occurred. we know the fbi director had full information on what was intended to occur. why could we not prevent this?

could i get that comment? host: i appreciate that. guest: i want to be blunt. what we saw on january 6 was a colossal failure. the intelligence was there. anybody who listened to the leaders of these groups knew they had militant intentions. latham declared clearly that they intended to try to disrupt the certification of the election. that they were willing to use force. i think we knew how many people would show up. the intelligence was there. it was clear we should expect escalation. the fact that there was not enough resources on the ground that was a failure. this is why it is under investigation. we learned a lesson of what happened in d.c. last week. as for now i think law-enforcement agencies are

putting efforts into trying to collect intelligence about dental plots, -- potential plots, organizations, there is enhancement of security around the capitals most states. definitely d.c. hopefully we learned a lesson from last week. if he asked me about january 6, i do not think any serious person would argue there was not a failure. if i'm mob was able to enter into the capitol building, that is a failure. the fact the intelligence was there, further intensifies that we were not prepared. host: a question on twitter, how do we counter these groups? how do we take their ideologies down? is it federal education, better living conditions? guest: we need to think

long-term approaches and short-term. the long-term approach is education, the educational system is one of those avenues we can try to counter these ideas, conspiracy theories, xenophobic and racist narratives. we should also demand political leaders to tone down rhetoric. the fact that leaders allowed themselves to use extremist rhetoric and legitimize discourse does not help. that is in the long-term. there are more efforts to promote bipartisan policies that will ensure more trust. it is important to convince the public that elections are not zero-sum. if you're losing elections, that is not the end of the world. that is what many of those people believed. they believed a democratic

president would be a disaster. you lose some, you win some and even if you lose, you are not losing completely. you still have political power. if you understand that, hopefully the level of animosity will go down. in terms of short-term approaches we need to develop a mechanism that will allow us to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations when we are talking about the more corporate organizations. we need to develop ways to identify and counter the spread of conspiracy theories. the same rate we have at -- the same way we have rapid response actions, we should do the same way to conspiracy theories online.

we have tried to do that in the past with jihadi terrorism. hopefully we can build a better mechanism. host: let's hear from dennis from williamsport, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. i would like to comment, i would like people to watch a show on public television like rick steve's, called the rise of fascism in europe. if you cannot see the parallel between these groups and trump of how they came to power, it would have to be blind. . if you take hitler's name out and put trump in, the way they talked, took over. in 2016 he did not win the election, he got in by the electoral and said the popular vote was illegal. the same way he did this time where he lost by over 7 million.

my local representative was one of the ones that signed this letter about contesting the election. these people try to install a dictator. host: on his point give us some historical context on what we are seeing. guest: as i've mentioned before, far-right groups and political parties were always part of the landscape in the united states. many people may not remember the party that was established in the 1850's and it was very strict anti-immigration, anti-catholic, fairly racist political party which was successful in some of the elections that they were participating in. since then we have always had

this presence of far-right groups that were part of the fringe of our political system. occasionally they were able to become more popular such as the kkk. which was able to get 7 million members on the record. also as a backlash to the civil rights movement. you can also see new kkk organizations. in terms of what was it right now is not something we have seen before in the sense that many of these herbs were able to mobilize. -- groups were able to mobilize. they were able to disseminate the narrative and conspiracy theories in a way that we have not seen before in terms of their ability to mobilize masses. about the comparison to europe, the one many full difference

between what we see in europe and here, is in europe because of parliament terry systems, far-right artist can gain a presence and representation in the particle system -- in the political system, executive branch. something that provides these groups a more consistent political visibility. here we see that evolving in the last few years when you see more members of congress willing to support and spread these ideas. host: nbc news tweeted early this morning about some of these groups saying extremist are using encrypted channels to call for violence against officials. today president-elect -- the day was elected biting is nominated with some extremist sharing knowledge of how to make,

conceal and use homemade guns and bombs. social media companies have responded, but what about other companies that provide security gear or military gear? where does their responsibility lie? guest: it is a complicated policy issue. it is how you define military gear and security gear. there is a lots of legal challenges involved. i would say in response to the tweet, this is another concerning development. more and more groups are targeting specifically political officials and leaders, this year and last year. they attempt to kidnap the michigan governor. as well as other political officials. we know some of the people who stormed the capitol building whitening to target -- were

aiming to target specific members of congress. this tendency to try and target political leaders, engage in assassinations and kidnapping is another layer of security challenge we will need to face. host: let's hear from deborah from pennsylvania on the independent line. caller: good morning. i wanted to continue with the other comment about trent using hitler's desk trump using hitler's -- trump using hitler's playbook. how many rallies has trump followed mein kampf? the radio broadcast, the twitter

comments, hitler's saying line press, trump using fake news. trying to destroy objective truth. trumps attacks on science --trump's attacks on science. there are 70 comparisons. hitler's two enrich industry, trump to enrich corporate america. please address that. guest: i think the main concern you are raising, which was also manifested in other cases, far-right groups are exploiting the democratic system to attack democratic principles. tried to dismantle the system, manipulate the system. we saw that in germany also with the emergence of additional

far-right parties. the far-right regimes we see in eastern europe utilize the same methods of the democratic system to erode democratic symbols -- democratic principles, to delegitimize rivals, the system. to erode the trust of the people in the system. eventually try to shift loyalty from loyalty to the republic, democracy to a personal loyalty to the leader. what you mentioned, this trent and method of operations of far-right parties and leaders is something we saw. host: the word insurrection has come into the american lexicon in the past 10 days. would you explain the difference between a protest versus

insurrection? guest: when you're trying to disrupt the political process. when you are trying to take over a government building. the hub, center of democracy. when you are aiming to attack specific elected officials, that is the line. process is something that is protected in this country. there's is a difference between that and disrupting the democratic process. certifying election results is one of the major components of any microsoft. the transitional power in a peaceful manner -- of any democracy. the transitional power in a peaceful manner is the rock of any democracy.

when you are declaring you want to protect that, does prevent that you are -- when you are the kind that you want to prevent that your crossing the line. caller: you need to go back further to after the civil war and when slaves -- we have always had that oppression. especially in texas. ted cruz, john cornyn, we probably should have had a recount on them. my nephew before he died in iraq, he said blackwater was one of the main recruiters. eric prince, steve bannon you cannot leave the output call them the boogaloo boys and the proud boys, they are the kkk and skinheads. president trump cannot say stand back ku klux klan, standby

skinheads. that is what they are. when you talk about people my age, we grew up in this, all the way. the sheriff in east texas, louie gohmert is part of it. our share of was the grand dragon of the ku klux klan -- sheriff was the grand dragon of the ku klux klan. it is voter suppression in texas. nothing is counted correctly especially with blacks. you have to address eric prince, steve bannon. what i learned about him, in scotland where he has a castle, they recruit these kids. host: let's hear from our guest. guest: as i said before several times, discrimination, racism, white supremacy is not a new thing. i want to raise one point that

the listener mentioned, we had a real problem in the past when a lot of law enforcement in the south was operated by klansmen, controlled by the kkk. this is why the current development of the fact that we see such a significant populations of law enforcement to these quote unquote new groups such as the oath keepers and three presenters -- percenters is concerned because they are supposed to fight these militant group. that is one of the major challenges we are facing. some of these groups were so successful in mobilizing support at recruiting from law enforcement, we do not want to get to the point where we the entire police department in some southern towns worked mainly

controlled by the kkk -- were mainly controlled by the kkk. host: this is john from mechanicsville, new york on the republican line. caller: i have a question -- several questions. what i saw in the eyes of most americans like myself sickened me. i grew up during the 60's. i went through vietnam. i saw the rioting. when i saw the attack on the capital it was beyond the pale. i have a question, the intelligence was there. everybody knew there was a potential for violence, what? --why was it allowed to happened?

who benefited? qanon, the guy with the horns or was it a lot that happened? this should have been stopped. it was premeditated. who stood to benefit? now we have a snap impeachment. this is troubling. the guest talked about right-wing violence, i believe he is right. when it look at the violence, violence is violence, in the cities over america was horrifying. it looked like there was a unified command structure, city after city learning, attacks on police officers, portland was -- i cannot find a word to describe how bad it was. with elected officials condoning it.

[no audio] host: john in new york. arie perliger. guest: there is a reason why congress is investigating what happened on january 6, many people do not have the answer of how this happened. why we were not prepared if the intelligence was there. white security was not in place, resources were not diverted. i do not think when he was asking who will benefit, i can tell that the pictures, videos from that event are not being utilized extensively like many far-right groups port recruitment, organization to empower members. these will be used as a source of inspiration to these groups.

i agree violence is violence. two didn't violence in any context regardless of origin, but i think it is important to remember there's a difference when you have infrastructures of groups engaging in a campaign to delegitimize the democratic process. delegitimize our government, election results. this is something that can undermine the foundations of our republic. host: a question from tom in york could you comment on the potential influence of russian operatives? guest: it is well documented that foreign actors are facilitating and supporting the dissemination of conspiracy theories. prod multiple platforms -- on

multiple platforms. we have seen evidence not just russians, some iranian actors were involved in the dissemination of all information and narratives. we have seen russian actors involved and that. -- in that. dark countries that believe by helping to disseminate these ideas, trying to create a backlash against election results, democratic system, process they can begin the united states. -- we can -- weaken the united states. they can undermine u.s. as a superpower that can promote democracy. regardless of what you think about these policies and if they are appropriate, they believe

they cannot just erode the resilience of the american democracy but erode the american image and stature as a superpower. host: 20 more minutes with our guest. he is a professor at university massachusetts global, director of their security studies program and author of the book american zealots right-wing terrorism. caller: i've been following groups from the left and right, it has been an amazing cultural anthropology opportunity. i've been on qanon telegram groups, with some passionate people, nothing radicalized. i've heard most of them saying for them to be at home worrying for fall sports. i've heard the same thing from blm.

she is posting stories where she is seen blm groups work together to clean up activities and she turned into an editor they either change it or take a story from someone else and her hands are tied. most of what i have been seeing is stay home. not trying to radicalize. trump with this speech he said peacefully go and share your voice. so far everything i have seen is this, that and the other. i read some of the indictments. there have been some guys they

are trump supporters, but another guy who is a known antifa member, even though he claimed -- they caught him breaking through a window. this meant targeting such a negative light but none of the stuff with have been working together as a community coming up. host: we will hear from the guest. guest: it is important to understand the context. when you're looking at the crowd that stormed the capital the may have been one antifa member but we have strong evidence that most of the crowd was not just strong supporters but members of the more militant groups. groups that for years now advocating for the undermining

of the legitimacy and 70 of our government. disseminating false conspiracy theories. but these groups collaborate with some of the mart extremist white supremacist groups, anti-semitic groups, racist groups. maybe you have seen anecdotal evidence that people not wanting to escalate. when we looked over all that discourse over social media, interviews, so on, various activities that is what we see. a growing threat. qanon eventually promote ideas that propose an alternative reality to followers. they think the government is controlled by a cabal of people focusing on promoting pedophilia.

all these conspiracy narratives do not have evidence that are supposed to further intensify distrust in the government, authorities and erode our ability to operate together. if there is such high levels of distress. if you believe your rivals are doing these horrible things, how can you collaborate with your rivals? all these contributed to the legislation of our political system and society. even if you see evidence of cooperation, most of the rhetoric, discourse, activities are enhancing the polarization and creating animosity between political groups and rivals and making it difficult to restore

stability to democracy. host: we go to reno, nevada, republican line. caller: how are you? host: fine. caller: the last 15 minutes to half-hour i heard your guest, thoroughly biased. knows nothing of what we have got to as conservatives. he did not answer the questions. see if you can handle this. republicans are losing their jobs, being singled out by your big tech. the racist rhetoric, especially from black callers, unadulterated hatred. trump is not a racist and he was not a nazi. he was more fishermen -- more of a show man.

what have heard over and over is your guest onto for gating about the right -- pontificating about the right. republicans beaten in the streets. you do not want to do that because it inconveniences your neighborhood -- your narrative. you are part of a cabal trying to eliminate conservative speech. you want to eliminate dissent. you call that insurrection. when you did it in 16 it was good, real cool. you took it to court, that was different. you are not only hypocritical, you're dangerous. host: any response? guest: to be honest i do not think a bill demand -- i do not

think i will be able to change the mind of that listener. not only republicans lost their jobs, many americans lost their jobs. one of the main reasons is because our government was not able to deal effectively with covid-19 and its implications. it is not something when the economy is in crisis it is not just affect republicans, it affects everyone. the other arguments, he has the right to his own views, i'm not a partisan person. i am looking at the data. i am tracking many ideological groups using violence not just far-right. i am looking at the data and i am trying to understand the data , different processes. if he feels the president during the debate expressed support for the proud boys and he does not think that is racism or white

supremacy, then i disagree. when the president says about the rally events in charlottesville, if he said some of the white supremacist who were marching there, at the present says these are good people, that i do think the president indirectly support white supremacists. eventually if you do not condemn these groups in a strong manner and consistently you eventually facilitate these. i disagree with the listener, it is unfortunate that people lose -- people believe the policies that are necessary to protect democracy are some kind of conspiracy theory to shut down a specific political group. i do not think that is the case. you see a lot of republicans

support these policies who believe we need to change course or the president crossed the line. that is my response. host: question from tracy on twitter, for years americans, mainly men have been stocking huge amounts of weapons claiming second amendment rights, is it making them more prone to being radicalized? guest: gun policies or something that makes jos-- are soemthing that makes these groups more likely. when he had the desk when you have that access it improves your capability. many militias are engaged in military training, stockpiling of ammunition and are able to do

that because of gun laws. i am not expressing anything about the second amendment, the fact is that there are strong protections to bear arms. many groups are exploiting these two enhanced capabilities -- to enhance their capabilities. host: to the democrat line, kingswood, west virginia, gary, hello there. caller: hello, are you there? host: we are here. go ahead. caller: i've been a democrat my whole life, -- with the way democrats treated term. for the last four years all they have done is try to get rid of him. that one district had 203,000

registered voters, 350,000 plus boats, -- plus votes, 91% for biden. i cannot see how that is fair. the democrats should know that it is fine to vote for biden. they ignore that. in pennsylvania he won the popular vote in the pre-vote but he lost in the writing foods -- write in votes. the birds that came in the middle of the night, he was declared the winner and the next morning he had lost because they had found another several hundred thousand dollars write in votes. host: okay we go to harry in texas, republican line talking about right-wing extremism. caller: when i listen to

professors like this, it brings tears to my eyes. i am 89. when i came up we did not have to put up with guys like this. his whole object of teaching our young people in college is criminal. if you would leave them alone, let them have their own ideas about what is great about america. this country would be way better than it is today because our colleges are filled up with professors like this man. host: tell us about that aspect of your work. the classes you're teaching in the light of the attack, the things you're talking about with your students.

guest: i would like to think our students are much more smarter, intelligent, critical than what the listener is implying. mommy are teaching -- when we are teaching, we are exposing them to different facets of this phenomenon, we do not focus on a specific type. we teach them about the history of terrorism, the different ideologies that utilize violence. this idea that what we do is indoctrination is so far from the truth. our focus is to help our students develop critical thinking, the ability to look at political reality and evaluate it using intellectual skills. trying to understand the main

social, political, economic phenomena that shape our society without getting into partisan politics. we are academics, scientists we care about scientist. most of our writings are focusing on theories of violence. not the conventional pleadings -- readings of most people. it is unfortunate people have these perceptions. we are not teaching our students -- engaging in partisan politics. it is important to understand. we talked about the causes of the phenomena that we are witnessing. definitely we talked about current events, from an analytical perspective. try to help them to develop abilities to evaluate, analyze these events and dynamics to make them more engaged citizens,

individuals that can criticize and be more willing to help society and country through a political -- through a critical approach. what we do is far from what he is describing. studying a specific, does not make you partisan. i'm not asking my colleagues about their views, where they are coming from. all of them have political views, we all have. the rigor of our studies, research is about our research. promotions not been determined -- promotion is being determined through academic standards not a partisan cabal. host: will get a call or two. we'll go to charles in michigan,

independent line. caller: thank you. i would like to ask what he thinks about the fact we now have a professional army and train them with types of equipment and communication and that is being sold out in the stores, these types of military equipment. i would like to ask about a president that browbeats the leadership of the military, fbi, police departments but praises the people underneath them. host: -- guest: in terms of the president, i do not think i will get to the political interests of the republican party. in terms of monitoring and supervising the dissemination of military gear, we have a glut of challenges. we need to solve gun issues.

how we envision done policies in the future. solving military gear in general , before we are able to generate consensus about reasonable gun policies, i do not think we will get there. the more it will expand the category of elements you want to monitor and supervise, it is more difficult to find them. what constitutes military g ear. host: in the past you have briefed institutions like the fbi, defense department on security issues in the wake of the capital attack, what is the new information you might give? guest: usually i am providing a review of the landscape, which groups are more active, effective in mobilizing.

before talking about capabilities, potential collaboration, so on. a lot of the issues we discussed today are being raised in these briefings. as part of the department of defense -- i was part of the department of defense, had a chance to talk about institutions of far-right in the military. in these briefings we try to talk broadly but also specific concerns to the organization. host: one more call, the journey pennsylvania, democrats line. caller: all i am on now. host: argue there? -- are you there? caller: yes. when trump has these rallies and bus people in he makes it seem as if all of these people were

coming from nowhere. he had these people bust in -- bussed in. he agitated these people. host: last thoughts. was the president part of what was going this eventual action on capitol hill? i think most people will agree he was facilitating and definitely ignited this kind of mentality of the need to do something radical, something extreme. host: arie perliger with the university of massachusetts-low, thank you for -- lowell, think of her being with us. we'll be joined next by "the hill's" national reporter reid wilson to talk about the week ahead in politics, the departure of donald trump as well.

your calls and comments as well. >> wednesday, joe biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the united states on our nations capital. in light of the attack on our capitol the traditional ceremony has been modified. follow our coverage as the day unfold starting at 7 a.m. eastern, getting at the capitol, the swearing in of joe biden kamala harris, -- joe biden and kamala harris. live coverage on c-span, c-span.org, and listen live on the c-span radio app. >> on january 6, rioters breached security in caused extensive damage to the u.s. capitol for the first time since british troops burned the

building in 1814. coming up monday, we visit c-span's original production of "the capitol," taking you through the history and architecture of this iconic home to the congress. watch c-span's "the capitol" monday at 6 p.m. eastern. >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. today at 6 p.m., the smithsonian curator shares some of the one-of-a-kind artifacts that tell the story of the first half-century of aviation. at 8 p.m. on "the presidency," a look back to january 16, 1991 as

george h w bush announces the bombing of iraq and the state of the gulf war, following his state of the union address. watch on c-span3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we welcome back to the program reid wilson, national reporter with "the hill." welcome. guest: thank you, bill. host: this will be an inauguration the likes no one has ever seen. what are your expectations? guest: there are a number of unfortunate reasons, right? we have a global pandemic that continues to rage across the country. we have unrest, and insurrection --and unrest, and insurrection.

in between us, there's a substantial number of military vehicles locking off access to the place where joe biden will be sworn in. we will see a smaller inaugural. i think they are planning for about 1000 people, as compared to the half a million or more who attended president obama's inauguration back in 2009 and 2013, and we are probably going to see something that will be highly produced, a lot of made-for-tv video packages, made for tv moments we would not otherwise see during a normal inauguration. host: did they close down the number of invited guests? guest: yes, they severely

restricted the places where people can gather. they've blocked off big chunks of the mall. the mayor muriel bowser has asked people to stay home. to join by video. they are planning parades around the country that are opposed to the big national celebration we get every four years. host: we have all, as we have come to work in the capitol, we have experienced this security -- do people feel safe? guest: that's a good question. i think so. i think broadly speaking. it's such a city of neighborhoods, the insurrection that happened a couple weeks ago, at one point during the

day, i walked out into my neighborhood to pick up my dry cleaning and everything was normal and i'm just a few steps away from the capitol itself. i think people broadly feel safe. but it's tense. it's tense when you take one block out from the main artery from your house in the pennsylvania national guard is here. we're glad they are here. we are glad they are protecting the city itself. it's really community, right? it's not just members of congress. it's the moms and pops to operate the coffee shop inside the building, the dry cleaner in the building. i feel like we are all very grateful the 25,000 national guard troops are in washington, d.c. right now.

host: reid wilson are guest up until 10:00 eastern. we welcome your calls and comments. we will talk about impeachment as well. the author of the book "epidemic : the scramble to prevent the next global outbreak." reid wilson, let's talk about the other element on wednesday, the departure of president trump. the two presidents and first ladies will not see each other or engage, as we understand, correct? guest: that's correct. president trump will depart wednesday morning for his estate in florida, mar-a-lago. he has barely participated in

the transition of power, which is a departure from his predecessors. george w. bush made a huge, huge deal out of a smooth transition to the obama administration. they understood the importance of the continuity of government. the obama administration tried very hard to offer a smooth transition to the trump administration. prison obama welcomed president trump to the white house, not just on inauguration day -- president obama welcomed president trump to the white house, not just on inauguration day. they made for the smooth transition. that will not happen this time. president trump is just not participating. vice president pence has started to make the transition. he called vice president-elect kamala harris a couple days ago to offer congratulations, his help, albeit at this late date

and he will be attending the inauguration, as will many republican governors, republican senators. they are trying to make this as normal as possible. host: depending on the outcome of a potential senate impeachment trial, we spent the first hour of the program asking viewers and listeners about this -- what is donald trump's political future?

there are a substantial number of voters who are trump first and republican second. how are those voters going to come back into the republican fold? are they going to support

protest candidates, libertarian candidates? one fascinating thing, we just saw an election with the highest voter turnout in american history and of those voters -- democrats turned out a lot of new voters. so did republicans. for the democrats is a substantial unknown if they turn out -- can they turn out their own voters without the motivation of president trump? host: we have calls -- we will take a quick look at the role of incoming vice president kamala harris. thehill.com has a story. i want to play some comments from the vice president elected from yesterday and ask you, reid wilson, how you see this role

shaping up for kamala harris as well. vice president-elect harris: the science behind climate change is not a hoax. the science behind the virus is not partisan. the same evidence holds true regardless of whether or not you accept it. and president-elect biden and i will not only listen to science, we will invest in it so we can achieve breakthroughs for strengthening public health and tackling climate change, to jumpstarting job creation and economic growth. and as we do we will make sure we are investing in stem education and the next generation of scientists, including women scientists and scientists of color. the team we are naming today will help us lead this work. host: reid wilson, she has been

hand-in-hand with the president-elect last couple months. where do you see her establishing her own identity for key issues? guest: first of all, she's going to have a lot of her time taken up by the fact that the senate is divided 50-50 and the vice president breaks ties in the senate. vice president harris is going to probably have to spend more time than she wants in a chair raking tie votes. -- breaking tie votes. the -- one thing i will be fascinated by is vice president-elect harris -- she has less of a defined political identity than say someone like joe biden or elizabeth warren or bernie sanders, right? we know where they are on a lot of these issues. we have decades of that record.

harris has a lot of opportunity to invent herself. there is no guarantee that president-elect biden will run for a second term, and if he doesn't, it's all but certain vice president harris would run for the democratic nomination. one of the things i am going to be fascinated by is what happens the first time resident biden comes out with a policy -- president biden comes out with a policy that does not please the progressive left? how does vice president harris responded that, supporting the president serves, while watching out for her political future? that is going to be the delicate tap dance i feel like we will all be watching for the next four years or so. the last several vice president's have been -- presidents have been -- lockstep

seems to cliché a term, but extremely supportive of the presidents they serve, vice president cheney, vice president biden, vice president pence. the last time you could go back and find any policy difference between a president and vice president was the late 1990's when al gore started looking out for his own best interests. i'm interested to see how vice president harris deals with activist anger at a more moderate president biden. host: and the not unexpected news,, harris expected to resign from the senate on monday. the california secretary state alex padilla will replace harris in the senate. we're going to take your calls.

charles from uniontown, pennsylvania, republican line. caller: yes, sir, calling concerned about president trump.

the late john king played a huge role in those discussions. can a democratic senate, with a few republican moderates on immigration fashion some sort of reform package? that will be interesting. i did not see that coming. the pandemic added to racial unrest added to this. host: let's hear from sig in

akron falls, ohio. caller: i would like to ask a few questions. a former employee of nih said that a bullet was released accidentally from a fort dietrich lab. apparently it is made from cows and extinguished butterflies and on and on. the former vice president of pfizer has said, in commissioning and asking the european union agency to withdraw the pfizer vaccine, he

said it destroys placenta and all zeno transplantation -- xeno transplantation of contamination of humans with animal cells -- host: several things there. reid wilson you wrote a book on a bullet. your thoughts on a couple questions? guest: as a matter of fact, people have been infected with ebola in a lab. there is one scientist who wrote memorably about this. they do research on diseases that might affect the population, covid and everything else, too. we see people on these big

spacesuits. these are the deadliest diseases that we have in the world. i think it was in the 1990's when a scientist working on ebola pricked herself with a syringe that had the virus. she was treated at what they call a brig, an isolation unit. fortunately she recovered. there are scientists in russia who died after a trick. i hate to say it, but it's not unheard of in the world of biomedical research. but it was discovered for the first time in modern history in 1936 along the ebola river.

it was the democratic republic of congo which is where the virus gets named. we used to give diseases names based on where they were discovered. lyme is a town. zika is a forest. that is how we name these things. host: let me ask you about covid-19. politico has a story this morning -- the trump administration vaccine program actually achieved most of its goals until distribution problems marred success. reid wilson, what does the biden administration have to get right right off the bat? guest: the big problem the trump

administration has faced is the lack of creating a federal government response. they did an amazing job, all credit to them, for helping to speed the production of these mrna vaccines and is important for viewers to know just how safe these vaccines are going to be. they did a great job in developing the vaccine. they did an ok job in creating the pipeline that will lead to the manufacture and distribution of the vaccine from states, counties. they have done a really bad job in -- imagine a post office. if i sent you a package for my hometown in seattle, the package goes from seattle to d.c..

when they take it from mouse to the truck is the -- it the fed says, it's up to you, states, do what you want with it. the lack of federal ordination is where we are seeing the slowdowns. their goal is 100 billion doses. that means getting 100 million vials and syringes -- host: swabs. guest: that you sterilize the side with it. it's more than the vile and giving it all of the -- vial and

giving it all to the actual site. these vaccines, the mrna technique that the pfizer, dharna and -- moderna and him ih vaccines are using will revolutionize how we protect ourselves, not just from covid. they take little strands of rna and teach your immune system how to recognize the protein. if you've seen a picture of what covid looks like, the little spikes that come off the main ball, the vaccine teaches your immune system to learn what that looks like an attack it and the coolest part about it, not like the flu vaccine or the polio vaccine, this vaccine uses the part of the virus that is that protein. it doesn't use any of the virus that causes the disease, which means it's 100% safe.

people have had some allergic reactions, but that's like oh -- one in a million. if more than one in 10,000 have a reaction, this is orders of magnitude safer. it's a really super exciting technology, so, good job u.s. government. host: we have more calls from new jersey on the democrats line. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. i have two points. earlier in your segment, you talked about the preparation for the inauguration and there are

26,000 national guard troops in d.c. and the national guard is being called up in states all over the country and you talk about the last mile problem -- it annoys me as an american citizen who is immunosuppressive, who needs this vaccine, this pandemic behind us, it annoys me every trip you see on the national mall or the capitol is a trooper who cannot be used to address your last mile problem. that really, really annoys me and i think the use of the national guard is part of joe biden's strategy to get one hundred million vaccines and arms. that is a problem. there's the domestic terrorism problem sort of, that exacerbates our ability to get this pandemic behind us. the second point is about the trump legacy and there is this story in "salon" magazine about

a ivanka trump worried about her political future and it speaks to the narcissism of this family. she's not worried about the deaths that her father -- the damage her father's done to the republic or the region pandemic. she's worried whether she will be able to primary marco rubio in 2022. host: ok. guest: the national guard point is a good point. we have seen the national guard use to administer the vaccine in a lot of states. in wisconsin this week, the national guard has been doing a pretty heroic job in the last year, considering that we have engaged in testing, the early response to the pandemic, distribute in personal protective equipment, things like that, and then they pivoted

to helping to administer elections a lot of states, and the primary and the general, and they are regularly deployed to help with national defense, we have wildfire season, her key in is here. i'm sure we will have -- hurricane season is here. i'm sure we will have a year unlike any other. host: pat, florida, independent line. go ahead. caller: hi, good morning. thank you for c-span. to me, and his legacy is one of whining us. he whined that he is the only president who has been treated as he has, and i am 65 years old, and every president i have ever seen with my own eyes, they are criticized for one reason or the other.

you are a sitting duck for criticism. you are at the highest level. in his response with the media and how they will treat him in turn -- for example, initially he meets with foreign dignitaries, about four, however, and he confiscates the notes of the meeting. that raises my eyebrows. they should be open meetings where the people on both sides no one occurred. --know what occurred. he would not be an ordinary politician, but you need to put someone in there that will adhere to the laws and follow what those laws are. those laws were established for a reason to keep everyone in line. i definitely think his legacy would have been different if he

had followed some of them. his legacy will be conflict, destruction, nepotism, and it goes on and on. host: reid wilson ok. ? ? guest: the president is unlike any president we have had in recent years. i am old enough to remember when people questioned where the last president was born, including the current president and i remember the bush years, i remember the clinton years. the last guy that got impeached. a lot of the criticism president trump has faced is entirely normal in the course of presidents and their behavior and president-elect biden is about to find that out. he has had no shortage of criticism himself.

we will see how people react to that. it's interesting to me that people are taking the criticism of president trump -- one of the earlier colors from pennsylvania, i think, make comments about how he has been treated -- made comets about how he has been treated, and i do not know why that is yet. but this criticism itself is common across presidential administrations. host:. republican line caller: how are you -- host: i how are you doing --republican line. caller: how are you doing? this president is the greatest president we ever had. when you talk about impeaching a president before he gets into power, you're telling me this is

normal? that's not normal. guest: it is normal. there is a member of congress talking now about impeaching president biden. caller: you never gave the guy a chance to do anything. ever. we had the greatest economy in u.s. history. everybody on the others, all they ever did was stonewall, stonewall. host: john cornyn tweeting moments ago on the impeachment, the processing this -- with a senate impeachment, nancy pelosi is abandoning joe biden's agenda for normalcy. what is the risk? guest: the rules of the senate say that once they get an impeachment resolution referred from the house, they must immediately start a trial.

unless the following day is a sunday. so if the house sends those impeachment articles to the senate, the senate must stop and move to the impeachment trial. now there are a bunch of nominees who the biden administration wants to get approved right away. there's an economic recovery package that includes a $1400 check and money for state and local governments and things like that to begin the recovery. we will talk about the economy in just a second. that stuff stops if the senate is engaged in impeachment trial. now there's nothing in the rules that says hello see has to refer the impeachment articles immediately. and it appears that the senate

majority leader mitch mcconnell once to wait until it is senate majority leader chuck schumer in charge to see what the post-inauguration impeachment process looks like. so it could take the most valuable commodity any president has his time in the most valuable commodity in washington, d.c. is senate floor time. this is something biden wants to do at some point. it's just not clear when that process will happen. that point on the greatest economy ever -- that simply not true. there are fewer jobs today in america than there were when president trump took office. the stock market may be doing great. the stock market is not the economy. host: a quick note on the confirmation process. every day on capitol hill and c-span, there are five confirmation hearings.

lloyd austin, the defense secretary, antony blinken, secretary of state nominee, janet yellen, the former fed chair, avril haines nominated to the director of national intelligence. go to c-span.org and we will keep you posted on our c-span network -- on the c-span network. let's go to fitchburg, pennsylvania. democrats line. caller: as gasoline prices go up and up and up because of biden's plans, you will be talking about how people like you --

the other reason that democrats hate him so much is he got rid of 30 years of regulation. the facts were all up there back then. i guess he caused that, too. with this going on, gee, joe, how's your dogs doing? host: all right, we will go to jeff in bayville, new york. independent line. caller: thanks for taking my call. i would like to suggest a proposal. i know you wrote the book on basically the scrabble to prepare for the next pandemic. we have the lack of coordination

between federal and local states in addressing the pandemic, not only the vaccine. but we have seen that this is an existential threat for any financial crisis. what i would like to draw your attention to -- my suggestion is since we weren't able to find preparedness over the decades,

[indiscernible] take the preparedness out of the executive and congressional budget process with a funded source by amendment that does that, so it would not be subject to funding and, worst of all, politicization. host: all right, jeff, let's get a response from our guest. guest: i never heard of that idea before. i feel like the instant response would be, that's a slippery slope and you will get more and more things, more and more powers given to the federal reserve, which is not a terribly popular to do on capitol hill these days, but it is clear we have not spent the labor of government -- especially democratically have been elected government is not great at

thinking long-term, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years down the road, and something like pandemic apparent this looks on its face like you are spending billions of dollars preparing for something that doesn't exist. in reality you are spending billions of dollars now to save trillions of dollars on the backend and hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of lives. but it's a great talking point when you got on the trail. look how much money people are wasting. they are the ones who will solve the next pandemic. we have pandemics on a pretty pretty regular basis. sars, mers.

the aids crisis is a pandemic that's been going on for 40 years, 50 years. so, the next pandemic, we can take every -- we can take every comfort in that, give the trump administration credit, they helped to build -- to develop a vaccine in less than a year. host: in your previous comments you talked about the last mile problem with vaccine distribution. a tweet here, a text from peter, massachusetts says this -- israel solved the last mile problem weeks ago. why aren't people studying and implement thing israel's resolutions -- solution?

host: their health system looks much more like the european model then our model. we are doing a little bit better on that front. there are states that are doing a pretty good job and i don't know enough about the logistics to tell you why this is. but there's a higher percentage of the population and west virginia is not part of the federal program that there is a state government with cvs and walgreens. so west virginia is distributing their vaccine to local pharmacies. if i could write the next book,

which i don't know anyone wants to read about what's happening right now, i would love to study it, what is working and what is not working. west virginia has something going for them. host: randy in kentucky on the republican line. go ahead. caller: thank you, when president trump was elected, i told many people he would be the biggest troublemaker in history, and he has turned out to be because he has shown us exactly, or we feel like exactly, what the news media is, what the government is, what a communist nation we live in. all the rules and regulations, things we don't want. it just makes you wonder, how people can continue to vote to rule each other -- why not just

have a dictator? is the same thing? host: reid wilson, any thoughts? guest: well, i would take issue with the assertion we are a communist nation. i would also suggest that having democratic elections every year in some states -- kentucky is one that has all your elections, so having democratic elections to pick who is in charge is kind of the definition of republican democracy that we have had for the last 240, 250 years. yeah. host: ok, let's go to neil in scranton, pennsylvania, democrats line. good morning. caller: yeah, trump's legacy, i want to say he's the most incompetent president ever. he should be charged with treason and insurrection.

he should go to jail. i don't understand why he's not already. we have a real president and a real attorney general to get back to some norm. that's all i have to say. thank you. host: reid wilson, we have talked a little bit about inauguration day in the nation's capitol, and potential protests in some state capitals. do you have concerns? guest: yeah, let me back up a little bit. for the last year, basically, we started to see protests, increasingly angry protests at state capitols across the country, people showing up, openly carrying long guns, something like that in states like ohio and michigan. and that has increased in just

the last few weeks. what i usually do when i cover state legislatures, we have the sources, democrats and republicans in state capitols. i got a hold of karen kaiser and she answered the phone while she was looking out her office window at a line of national guard troops, because they were anticipating a pretty massive protest on the same day that the insurrection happened at the uso capital -- at the u.s. capitol. people were worried about a massive protest to the following week. fortunately that did not happen because of an untimely rainstorm.

but they are still expecting protests. in just about every state, next week. every state is boosting security, calling out their own national guard, and what is really sad is -- more than half of the state capitol buildings in the country, you can just walk in. there's no security. the legislators are there and everybody has free reign, which is kind of great. all access to your democratically-elected representatives. but those buildings are now starting to lock down and there are more fences farther out, more security checks. this notion of hardening our institutions of democracy, that's scary, and it's necessary, clearly, but it's troubling over the long run and

i think it says something poor about where we are as a country. host: i will put you on the spot a little bit. of the 25 or so statehouses you visited, do you have a favorite? guest: my home state really has a wonderful capitol you can see as you're coming down the freeway, surrounded by lush, verdant green. i love sacramento, the capitol the layings. texas, austin is stunning. montpelier, it is just stunningly gorgeous. it was snowing, so it was surrounded by the snow. capitol buildings, they are just so much fun. host: one of my favorites, south dakota the one in peers, a great house chamber. to sean in north carolina, independent line. go ahead.

caller: why is there so much partisan animosity and polarization in politics lately and what does this have for people's acceptance to receive or not receive the vaccine? guest: great question. it's in the interest of the professional class to stoke the partisan -- we should probably as a country address what we have built around modern politics. people do not want to accept the vaccine are a partisan group. people on the far right and

people on the left. there's also substantial hesitant among communities of color, which i think is pretty easily understandable when you consider that they have been mistreated by the medical establishment for centuries when things like the tuskegee experiments were allowed to happen going up to the 1970's. i know especially black elected officials are very concerned and making a very concerted effort to accept the vaccine. you have someone like eddie burness -- bernice johnson in dallas, accepting the vaccine. he got his vaccination shot on the local news.

but there was widespread hesitancy even for health-care workers. you have some, including in health care facilities, just refusing to take a vaccine. it's just remarkable technology. and she will be on the shortlist for a nobel prize treason. host: ok, dave and anchorage, alaska. caller: yes, i am a health economist myself and west virginia came in first on

delivering the shots -- the most shots in the arm per 100,000. alaska came in seventh. between the health service and our government, ever getting out to a municipality and two hospitals. all of our nursing homes in this last week, we have been doing this -- and no vaccine goes to waste. if one hospital does not show, they immediately called the next one down the list.

what we are kind of missing here , the phenomena of trump was created by everything the biden administration wants to put back, from obamacare to immigration to high taxes, creating seattle's and san francisco's throughout the country. when we go through that process, that is what will bring trump back. it sort of like those t-shirts with bush. do you miss me yet? the high taxes, the high cost of energy, that's what's going to create it. thank you for your time. guest: i am thrilled to hear

about alaska's success. speaking of last mile runs, i have seen these stories, the vaccines being developed and delivered to native villages by sled dog. that is a last mile challenge right there. host: some of the issues he brought up about the biden presidency, the debt cloud from the trump presidency, not just the debt incurred of the trump presidency, but the planned spending for the biden administration, nine point -- $1.9 trillion in pandemic release -- relief. guest: trump leaves office having bloomed that substantially. the debt was frankly $5 trillion

higher before the pandemic struck. before any of the relief bills had been passed. republicans had no problem voting for tax cuts that created more debt or a lot of programs that created a lot more debt and at times, that can be ok. that was one of those times. how many people have refinanced their mortgages since the interest rates are so low? it costs less to borrow right now. so that is something people ought to consider, especially as the new administration plans --

by the way, let's put this in historical context. the recovery act that was passed by president obama, they go nuts -- rahm emanuel one to keep it under a trillion dollars. i think it was at 800 billion. and here we are a decade later and it's two and half times as large. host: philadelphia, democrats line. caller: yes. i remember that obama was attacked for ebola. what are we going to do, what if someone came in with the bola, it's -- with ebola, it's obama's fault. and i remember it was the difficult midterm election and they asked -- everybody forgot about ebola. how does that compare with how trump is treated with corona, if you understand what i'm saying? guest: yes.

they did not forget about ebola. it was a $6 billion bill that was passed. and that bill included one provision that set up 49 cdc's and other countries. what we want public health in another country? we want to see the emerging pathogens that come out from the congo or liberia or from, say, i don't know, wuhan, china. as a matter fact, there was a cdc presence in wuhan that was pulled away. they were called back to atlanta and their programs ended. that's another example of failing to spend a little now to save a lot of money on the

backend and a lot of lives on the backend. the difference with ebola in america and covid in america is a bola infected a grand total -- ebola infected a grand total of two people. the liberian man died and the two nurses survived. so there were two ebola cases in the united states. that's north of 21 billion. we are going to hit 400,000 dead americans by the time the new administration is inaugurated and that's less than a year since the first ebola death in the united states -- i think history is going to look back on the a bola response mounted by barack obama and the covid response mounted by president trump. i would point out that the guy who headed the ebola response under barack obama was a guy

named ron klain. you may have heard that name recently. he will be joe biden's chief of staff. someone who knows about a massive logistical out our guest's book on the issue. he is national reporter with the hill. you can read his reporting at thehill.com. thanks for -- we will be here everyday at 7:00 eastern. enjoy the rest of your weekend. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]