>> tomorrow, joe biden will be sworn in as president of the united states in our nation's capital. in light of the attack on the capitol, traditional ceremony has been modified. follow our coverage as the day unfolds. starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern, watch the arrival at the capitol and the inaugural address. the inauguration of joe biden, beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern tomorrow. live coverage on c-span, c-span.org, or listen on the c-span radio app. >> this morning, the former director of the white house policy council talks about the

trump administration's record on domestic issues and michael couric talks about his new -- michael kirk talks about his new pbs frontline film. washington journal is next. host: good morning on this tuesday, january 19, the last full day of the trump presidency. we will spend this morning getting your thoughts on the first-term president and his legacy. democrats, (202) 748-8000. republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. textus with your first name, city and state at (202) 748-8003 . you can also go to twitter @cspanwj and

facebook.com/c-span2 post your comments. the headline in the washington times -- trump leaves mark as consequential first-term president. another headline -- lies and corruption. we will begin with the mystic policy. here is the president in 2017 after the tax cut past congress. -- passed congress. [video clip] >> 3.2 trillion dollars for american families, including increasing the standard deduction and child tax reddit. -- tax credit. in my opinion, it is going to be less than the average.you are going to have a lot more than that. very important for the farmers,

the great farmers and small business owners forest to sell their business at bargain basement numbers. we have provided, for the most part, estate taxes wiped out. that is a big factor. very big. this is going to mean companies will be coming back. i campaign on the fact that we will not lose our companies anymore. they will stay in our country. and you have been seeing what has been happening. they have tremendous enthusiasm now in this country. we have companies pouring back into our country. that means jobs and the formation of new, young, beautiful, strong companies, so that will be important. the small businesses will be big beneficiaries. we will bring at least $4 trillion back into this country

that was frozen overseas, and parts of the world. some of them don't even like us. they will not have the money long. it is really simple. you think you have not heard this expression, but we are making america great again. you have not heard that. host: the president back in 2017 after passing one of his first major legislative items. we are asking you what his legacy is this morning. bill o'reilly, former fox news, with the headline on newsmax, saying storming of the capitol earlier this month destroyed from's legacy. here is president trump. [video clip] >> i know your pain. i know you are hurt. we had an election that was stolen from us. it was a landslide election and

everyone knows it, especially the other side, but you have to go home now. we have to have peace. we have to have law and order. we have to have respect to our great people in law and order. we do not want anybody her. it is a tough period of time. there has never been a time like this where such a thing happened, where they could take it away from all of us. this was a fraudulent election, but we can't play into the hands of these people. we have to have peace. so go home. we love you. you are very special. you have seen what happens. you see the way others are treated that are so bad and so people. i know how you feel. but go home, and go home in peace. host: president trump january 6, the afternoon of the breach on capitol hill.

two your thoughts. susan in milford, pennsylvania, democratic caller, you are up. what is president trump's legacy? caller: to me, his legacy has been lies and being able to use social media in a way where lies are spread on twitter, facebook, and it has led to violence. also, what is very important to me, is using a christian people -- christian people following false prophets online and believing that he was appointed by god, which is a lie. how do you know a false prophet? when what they say is going to happen does not come true. he did not win the election. he lost the election.

in his lies -- and his allies. and he is really slick. he is charismatic. he has done some good, i will say, but -- host: in what areas, susan? where would you give him credit? caller: some of the laws in our government for businesses to do certain things. he has gotten rid of all redtape. just money, money, money. let free money go out there. you could destroy everything else that is important to a lot of people. but also, the way he just -- the republican followers in the congress that follow him, they do not speak -- they just want to and money for themselves and, yeah, they used him, too, as a puppet. host: ok.

i will go on to jimmy, republican in milwaukee. caller: good morning. how are you? host: good morning. caller: actually, i think the trump legacy, as o'reilly said, the storming of the capitol puts it straight in the toilet. that is the only thing i could credit this administration for. lately, this past year, they had those treaties in the middle east. that's it. i voted for him as president in 2016. i was one of those -- i guess you could say a fool at that time. i thought he would become presidential. dr. frank it did not come to -- i thought he would become presidential. it did not come to fruition. this time around, i did not vote

for him. i voted for joe biden. host: ok. caller: one more thing. here in wisconsin, there's a lot of republicans here. senator ron johnson, we want to put him on notice. this is his last term. host: jimmy mentioning the president's accomplishments in the middle east. here he is announcing an accord between israel and several muslim majority states. [video clip] >> israel, the uae, and bahrain will have embassies, exchange ambassadors, and work strongly to cooperate as partners across a broad range of sectors, from tourism to trade, health care to security. they will work together. they are friends. the accords also open the door for muslims around the world to visit the historic sites in

israel and to peacefully pray at a mosque in jerusalem, the third holiest site in islam. [applause] together, these agreements will serve as the foundation for a comprehensive peace across the entire region, something which nobody thought was possible, certainly not in this day and age. maybe many decades from now. one founded on mutual interest, respect and friendship. israel, the united arab emirates and bahrain, congratulations on this and standing achievement. -- outstanding achievement. host: the president in the fall of 20 talking about the middle east deal. how will the president be remembered? tony in brownsville, texas,

independent. caller: morning. trump's legacy will be the only american president who committed an insurrection, a seditious, treasonous act. also, his handling of covid-19. more than 400,000 are dead and the numbers are climbing. he led the second depression just like herbert hoover left the great depression. i mean, he is just the worst president ever. i studied history. he is the worst president ever. not only is he a traitor -- thank god that social media cut him off, because all his lies, i mean -- he went -- qanon, it is all a bunch of lies, garbage. it is basically garbage. it is all lies. the only thing i give credit to

trump's all the comedians there make jokes. -- that make jokes. i see the comedians. they make jokes of him. that is the only thing i am going to miss, the comedians will have no more jokes. host: ok. tony's thoughts in texas. he mentioned the deaths due to the pandemic. nbc's headline. u.s. death toll tops 400,000 nearly a year after the first confirmed case. 2 million people have been reported killed worldwide by the virus according to johns hopkins data. richard in alabama, a republican. what is the president's legacy? caller: i am not a republican really, just a conservative. i did not vote for trump because they do not vote for traders.

-- traitors. as far as trump, he did a couple of good things with the economy and with the pandemic. instead of blaming trump for it, but it where it belongs, in china. china is responsible for 400,000 american deaths. i will not miss him, but i'm really afraid of what we have coming, because he's compromised with his ceiling with countries. -- with his dealings with countries. that is all i have to say. host: when it comes to the economy, what would you give him credit for? caller: getting rid of redtape. getting us energy independent. people will talk about nature and other stuff, but we need to be energy independent. we don't need to be dependent on

saudi arabia or anyone else for our energy. host: we show to the washington times front page this morning, there had lied about the president being -- their headline about the president being the most consequential one term president. they write this. "mr. trump forged he steals in the middle east for the first time in generations, spurred an economic revival, overhauled immigration, renegotiated trade deals, enacted criminal justice reform, and stocked the judiciary with conservatives at a record pace. even as the pandemic devastated the economy and contributed to his failed reelection bid, he launched an unprecedented effort to get a vaccine in less the near -- than a year." do you agree?

betsy in frankfort, kentucky. caller: can you hear me? host: we can. caller: can you hear me? host: we can hear you. please go ahead. caller: ok. when trump was elected, i told everybody he was like a little austrian guy in germany. it was his way or the highway. we are still on the highway to try to get back to what we were. host: ok. steve. charleston, south carolina, a republican. hi, steve. caller: actually, i am an independent. that is ok. anyway, i don't have tunnel vision. you know, greta -- and, by the way, happy new year. host: happy new year. caller: thank you.

all it takes is one bad day to wipe out through 64. -- wipe out 364. that is what happened here. people are headed here by the thousands in anticipation of the biden opening of the borders. we are going to have a big problem with that. i do not know have a will be dealt with. -- how it will be dealt with. taxes, citizen friendly and corporate friendly tax code, which encouraged businesses to build here. increasing national security. the foreign policy has let -- warp speed was a success. people said you cannot have a vaccine before 1.5 years, two years down the road, so that was a success. there are a number of things he should get credit for, but that

one day, december 6, wipes out any good. by the way, for those folks who would like to hone in on this religious thing, trump has a tendency to be brash and rude. he does not carry the banner for christianity like we would like him to, but let me tell you, regarding being a deceiver. do not bring that argument up if you support a roman catholic president who stands behind organizations who support abortion. that is the ultimate deception. host: let me go back to your immigration. why do you credit him? what specific policy, if you can think of 1 -- i am putting you on the spot, but what policy do you think discouraged people from coming to the u.s.? caller: the creation of the wall, increased border security.

it is just -- the strangest thing is people in border states like bush and some people from california opened the borders. i never understood that. all these expenses fall on the american taxpayer for people, health care, education. and i'm not against people coming here. i'm around people from south of the border. they are doing their part. his approach to daca is ok now. i don't see anything wrong with his immigration policy, but it is being challenged. people are heading this way, so be ready. they are on the way. host: let's look at what the president has said on immigration. here is the president at a campaign rally promising to build that wall. [video clip] >> build that wall. we are going to build that wall,

don't worry about it. we are going to build that wall. we are going to build the wall. and who is going to pay for that wall? two? -- who? they think we are kidding, don't they, folks? we are not kidding. we are not kidding. host: the president in 2016. he also signed an executive order to end the child separation policy program the obama administration. here he is in 2018. [video clip] >> i am signing an executive order i consider to be a very important executive order about keeping families together while, at the same time, being sure we have a powerful, strong border and border security will be equal if not greater than previously.

so we will have strong, very strong borders, but we will keep the families together. i did not like the site or the feeling of families being separated. it is a problem that has gone on for many years, as you know, through many administrations, and we are working very hard on immigration. it has been left out in the cold. people have not dealt with it, and we are dealing with it, step-by-step, just like we dealt with north korea, iran, an economy heading in the wrong direction. we dealt with a lot of different problems. this is one that has gone on for many decades. so we are keeping families together and this will solve that problem. at the same time, we are keeping a very powerful order. it continues to be zero tolerance. we have zero tolerance for people that enter our country illegally. host: president trump on his

immigration philosophy there from 2018. is that part of his legacy? we will hear your thoughts on that this morning. robert in hazard, kentucky, a republican. good morning to you. it is your time. caller: how are you? host: doing fine. what will you remember about this president? caller: there was a caller earlier from alabama or arkansas who mentioned that they did not think president biden was being truthful about china. excuse me. i am a little nervous. president trump's legacy basically is going to be great. he has done -- that incident that day is to be thoroughly investigated towards the democrats. if you looked at that rally before the speech, president trump was there speaking. i watched a video of schumer, i

believe, speaking. you can see the hate in his eyes on the democratic side. basically, greta, what the american people would like is for president joe biden to knock on trump's door and give him a hug. the truth is really not out there. trump did tell the truth about china. host: linda in delmar, new york, a republican. linda? caller: i will make it brief. i believe this is the first president that really opened the door on his office. his open-door policy was unusual in that he spoke directly to the american people, and domestic policy is anything in this country. i do not think we will see the lake again with twitter -- the like again with twitter, is rallies, and his policy with the

media. they would catch him on the way to the helicopter or whatever and he would take the time to talk to them. meetings of his cabinet, science. i do not think we will see that happen again. i did not see that in previous presidencies. we did not see the use of the modern technology, the computers and television and everything else available to us to speak directly to the american public. i do not think we will see that in the next administration. host: linda, you have heard washington quip about no judge left behind, the effort by mitch mcconnell in the senate to get as many conservative judges on the bench across the country during the president's first term. take a look at the -- what the president did on judicial appointments.

three supreme court justices, 54 appeals court judges, 150 district court judges. his imprint on the judiciary bench will be felt for decades, according to observers, with more than 200 lifetime appointments and confirmations to the federal bench. look at how this compared to other presidents. three judges to the nation's highest court. in comparison to previous presidents in their first terms, he surpasses their totals. president clinton achieved 203 in his first term. president bush, 204. obama, 160. here's the president from the white house in november of 2019 talking about the federal judiciary judicial milestones. [video clip] >> quality and quantity.

we will be number one by the time we finish of any president. i want to thank all of you for the incredible job you have done. it is fantastic. thank you very much. host: is that how you will remember the president? brenda in south carolina, democratic collared. good morning to you, brenda. caller: my basic comment is i am a conservative from charleston. he is concerned about abortion and the democrats or whatever, but my biggest thing about his legacy is that he lied. he did some good things, but he lied a lot and he caused a lot of ar's with twitter. -- a lot of chaos with twitter. they would not be in his account if we did not get more lies daily. i do not understand the christian and the conservatives, there concerned about -- their

concern about abortion, but we never hear anything about the kids in cages. i don't understand that concept. i don't even watch the christian shows anymore because of these past four years. i don't even listen to it anymore, because they are all hypocrites. trump benefited them and they went along with him. the scripture says thou shalt have no other god before me. it says judge not lest be judged -- blessed ye be judged. that is my comment. thank you. host: ok, brenda. cheryl, what is the president's legacy in your view? caller: it was the best man --

we could have ever had as president. as a man, first of all, he let no one intimidate him. he was always truthful. you had to kind of figure out was he lying. all these previous scholars, where are they getting -- previous colors, where -- callers, where are they getting that he lied? no one lies as much as the democrats. he came to this country like a divine intervention. we had eight years of obama and all they did is sit around in back rooms, staff this country in the back, and this man came in. it is disgusting what this country has done to him, to his family, his wife. his wife was not even the first lady. they did not even give her the time of day. that is disgusting.

host: have you ever gone to the websites like bullet effect and other places where they -- like politifact and other places where they track politicians and determine on a scale whether it is a lie? caller: i don't believe those websites. those sites are all liberal. very few will tell you the truth. waste of time. host: where do you get your news? caller: newsmax. not even fox anymore. and your channel. why don't you ever put a program on about how they are always defacing the republicans? you always go on about how everything is bad against the democrats and what they are doing. why are all you referencing the new york times and the washington post? i do not think you are very

fair. host: we have read from the washington times and newsmax this morning, the huffington post, a liberal website. we try to show you what all people are reading, especially decision-makers in washington, d.c. not an endorsement of these newspapers, but show you what other people are reading. the huffington post, as we showed you, their headline -- trump's legacy -- two impeachments, lies, and corruption. they write "the president promised he would negotiate nafta to benefit workers. instead, it was renamed the usmca, that remains nearly identical with the exception of small tweaks lifted directly from tpp, another trade pact trump pulled out of and called the worst deal ever. he went along with a plan from congressional republican leaders

gave the biggest tax benefits to the richest. heading into 2018, trump did nothing to enact another tax plan after. similar results with an infrastructure plan and a health care plan. trump repeatedly promised to push through these proposals, but never released a single word of it either." your thoughts on the president's legacy this morning. sean in baltimore, an independent. hi. caller: hi. host: good morning. what do you think. -- think? caller: one word -- horrible. just horrible. that lady in new york saying he ever -- never lied, i don't know what reality these trump supporters are living in. he had the potential to be the best president ever, but he could not keep his mouth shut.

he was his own undoing. he blames everybody else, blames the democrats, blame nature. they will blame whoever. it is just crazy. but i will give trump credit for the middle east peace agreement going on. however, that all got thrown away by his lies, is chaos, the chaos he created -- his lies, his chaos, the chaos he created here. i hope he goes to jail. i hope the woman, the ag in new york, goes after him and his son and destroys him. the d.c. attorney general, i hope he goes after him. he could have been the best president ever. host: why do you think he had the potential to be the best? caller: because he was not a politician.

another thing i like about trump that showed he had a lot of potential, he said what he wanted to, which is a good thing to a certain extent, as long as you do not go overboard. he was destroying this pc culture. i will not say culture. our culture is too politically correct and trump destroyed it to a certain extent. because he did what he wanted to, he said i am in charge, i don't care what anybody else thinks, i will do what i want to. i think that was good to a certain extent, but he went overboard. you have to live in reality. because he did not live in reality, he wanted to lie. you know, the ukraine situation. the situation where he had to take the fall with the money situation with playboy and his other side piece, and this

insurrection. he called on the people to storm the capitol. people died. i hope he goes to jail. thank you. host: let me show you a headline from the event. "they are waiting it says." -- they are waiting. you can find that on the star gazettes'website. -- star gazette's website. diane, an independent. caller: i am an independent. his legacy will be whatever book you read, because, in the future, i do not believe it will change one way or the other because there is so much division. i was not a full supporter of president trump, but, like i

told my children who are now grown adults, you respect the office of the presidency. i saw that he was trying to make things happen that he promised, and i don't understand where everybody gets all the lying all the time. he was not politically correct. i myself have spent eight years in government. it was one of the most thankless jobs. i think everybody has to be accountable. americans have to be accountable for how you treated the president. i do not support biden and harris, but i will not this -- not this respect them -- not disrespect them. i hope people can get their mental faculties back in line. i think our country has fallen apart and one day everyone will have to be accountable for their behaviors. i would like to be able to see how far he could have taken it

if people would not have been constantly impeaching, being negative, calling him a liar, because if we do that to biden and harris, where will we go? host: let me show you another headline from california's inland valley daily bulletin. "new leadership brings hope." we are asking all of you this morning what is the president's legacy. esther in ithaca, new york, democratic caller:, you are next. -- democratic caller, your next. go ahead. caller: look at what condition this country is in now. the coronavirus is out of control because he grossly is handled it. he preferred to try to get hurt immunity and that was not possible. -- herd immunity when that was

not possible and never wore a mask except on very few occasions. and we have so much division in this country that was really unnecessary, but he became a cultlike figure. they believed everything he said and their loyalty was to trump rather than to our democracy. i am very upset with what happened in the capitol. i really think -- i just hope our democracy survives. as for foreign policy, he has tried a very dangerous route. he has been chummy with other people who, like him, are sort of, you know -- some of the most undemocratic governments in the world. and then this peace in the middle east. that is just in trying jewish supremacy -- the israeli.

host: esther, i will leave it there because you mentioned foreign policy, and we showed the moments where the president talked about the records. i want to show you the president talking about his decision to move away from the iran nuclear deal. [video clip] >> based on the factual record i have put forward, i am announcing today that we cannot and will not make this certification. we will not continue down a path whose predictable conclusion is more violence, more terror, and the very real threat of iran's nuclear breakthrough. that is why i am directing my administration to work closely with congress and our allies to

address the deal's serious flaws so the iranian regime can never threaten the world with nuclear weapons. host: that was the president talking about his decision to move away from what president obama had signed with the iran nuclear deal. let's go to clarence in florida, republican. we are talking about the president's legacy on the last full day of being president here in washington. go ahead. caller: i just want to say i am not happy with president's legacy at all as a republican because i think he goes against all republican principles. i like the people he appointed to the federal bench and i do not blame him for the coronavirus. he said some dumb things at the beginning, but i think it would have been bad anyway. but i do not think he stands for republican values. i think he is a populist, an isolationist.

i do not think that is what traditional republicans believed in. i voted for joe biden and i am relieved that he will become president. if you look at trump, i don't know what he has done. like, he has exploded the national debt before the coronavirus. he does not care about fiscal responsibility. he has coddled dictators and tyrants. i do not give him much credit when it comes to the economy. all the trends were basically the same as when he came into office. and he is a liar. he constantly said the election was stolen and there is no evidence of that. he did directly inspired the insurrection at the capitol. i see no proof of voter fraud. he directly inspired that insurrection. you can say to yourself it was

5000 people. why wasn't there an insurrection in 2001 or 2005 for any other losing candidate? he inspired them by making up this conspiracy theory. i am relieved he is leaving. i think he is a cancer to conservatism. i just hope the republican party can go in a different direction. host: all right, clarence. you can text us with your thoughts as well. include your first name, city and state. here's one. "trumps legacy is as a president that almost destroyed our democracy, security, and divided our country." some news happening on capitol hill today. a newsletter reports that chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell, as their titles stand now, will meet today to discuss the power-sharing agreement for -- a

power-sharing agreement for the new 50/50 senate. they need to hash out the process for president trump's impeachment trial, which threatens to further divide the republican party. they know that once all the senators are sworn in, including the new georgia senators, with kamala harris as the vice president, only then will schumer become the majority leader. former senator kamala harris resigned from the senate yesterday. here's what she had to say on twitter. [video clip] >> hi, everybody. i just wanted to let you know how honored i have been to serve as a united states senator from the place of my birth, the great state of california. back when i was a sophomore at howard university in 1984, i applied to be a senate intern in the office of the then senior

senator from california, alan cranston. and as this kid from oakland, i got chosen. who would have known, so many years later, i would actually run the office where i was once a student watching the incredible work that a senator can do, and especially a senator from california. i has been -- it has been such an honor to serve with a team that has worked so tirelessly, a state that has been there, where we have received thousands of calls him our fellow californians -- from our fellow californians, constituents concerned about getting their benefits, about the wildfires, friends who have contacted us about helping them to get support for various -- from various federal agencies.

it has been an honor to serve. when we have done the work in the congress of fighting for climate protection and fighting knowing that california has been a leader and we can do what we have done in california as a nation. it has been an honor to serve with so many extraordinary american leaders in the senate, doing bipartisan work, whether it was work to end cash bail or strengthen our national infrastructure around elections or the work we did to say that lynching should be a federal crime. these are some of the things we have done over the course of my four years, and you gave me the honor of being able to serve, so i just wanted to say thank you. of course, i am not saying goodbye. i am now saying hello and i am your vice president. i do want to thank you for the honor of representing the place

of my birth as a proud daughter of california. thank you. host: the former senator and incoming vice president kamala harris. joe biden spent last night in his home state of delaware. he will make his way to washington, d.c. today. he is staying at the blair house, which is adjacent to the white house, and a residence for foreign dignitaries and others to stay. he will stay there before his inauguration tomorrow. happening on capitol hill today, several confirmations for the biden administration. confirmation hearings are taking place. lloyd austin, the defense secretary nominee, will be testifying along with the homeland security secretary nominee, secretary of state, antony blinken, janet yellen, familiar name, will be testifying to serve as treasury secretary, and avril haines, the

nominee for director of national intelligence. all happening on capitol hill today. look for our coverage on c-span.org. carrie in milwaukee, wisconsin. independent. gary? caller: how are you doing today? i am a first time caller. when it comes to president trump, he did a lot of good things, especially with the prison abolition thing, but he did a lot of bad things. he did a lot of bad things. he promised that the wall was going to be paid for the mexicans -- by the mexicans. that did not happen. he took the parents from their

kids, the kids from the parents, rather, and they still do not know where the parents of them kids. that was not a good thing. like i said, i am an independent. i thought he was going to be a good president, but i think he was the worst president we have ever had. that is all i have to say. host: james next in new york, democratic caller. caller: hi. happy new year, greta. host: hi, james. caller: hi. i have to say, donald trump's legacy will be probably one of the worst ever. i used to think johnson was the worst and woodrow wilson. mr. trump is equal to that. he is number one. although i am a democrat, i would ask a lot of my republican friends what has trump done for you? and for the past four years,

none of them could answer that question. now, i can understand if you are a millionaire or a billionaire. you got a tax cut. you did not have to pay taxes. i understand that. but i was asking middle-class, primarily caucasian republicans, and they could not answer me. what i am saying to republicans, middle-class, white, black, whatever who supported him, he did nothing. farmers are killing themselves every day because they have lost their farms, because the soybeans they were selling to china are no longer there. i mean, let's wake up. i am actually the happiest man on earth because i am going to buy myself a big thing of champagne tomorrow and celebrate because, for four years, i have been listening to nothing but lies. the worst thing, greta, the thing that really drives me crazy is that in january of

2020, when he conducted that interview with bob woodward, he knew about this pandemic. i live in manhattan. we have lost over 30,000 people. we are at 400,000 people. he knew about it in chose not to tell the american public about it. that is why his legacy will go down in history as the worst president because he, in my opinion, has killed over 400,000 people. one more thing before i go. i was deleting things out of my dvr the other day, and in april of last year, we were at 15,000 people dying because of this president. he had the playbook by obama, the 69 page pandemic playbook. he chose not to inform us.

it is a sad, sad day, but i ambulated. i am going to make bellinis and i hope we never see this guy again. host: the 20th him him and says the new president will be sworn in on january 20 at 12:00 p.m. eastern time. that will take place tomorrow. our coverage begins tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. time. and we will show you all that is happening around washington up to the inauguration and after the president-elect expected to do some of the pageantry typical of an inauguration, but not all of it due to the pandemic, the security around washington, d.c. after the capitol breached earlier this month. president trump plans to leave washington, d.c. tomorrow

morning according to cnn. no plans to greet the president-elect and the white house. he will leave early in the morning to florida. let's go to carrie in canton, north carolina, a republican. caller: to the guy from new york, you need to get your facts straight. the biggest lies ever perpetuated in this country was from the democrats, that they would bring prosperity for the black men and women of this country. as for what the president has done, the majority has been extremely good. he has lowered my gas prices, my electric bill, my clothing bill. everything that i have to have to survive, the president has tried to make it easier. compared to what the democrats have done -- barack obama came into office and said he

inherited a mess from george w. bush. we put the democrats in charge in 2006 keep that from happening. nancy pelosi became the first woman speaker of the house in 2006. what did she do? she bailed out the big banks. her husband got $30 million richer. he's an investment banker. we don't never hear about that. we don't never hear about how washington politicians enrich themselves sitting in that one building, and they cry when the people scream at them? because they really want to stick it to us some more? no, president trump is the only -- the only -- president in my 57 years on this planet that has actually been for the people instead of for the politicians that stand next to him. host: does it bother you that

the president, a company, the trump organization, has made money from his presidency, and his children have? caller: do you think joe biden's family has made money from joe biden being in office for the last 47 years? as a matter of fact -- before he come into office. host: so is it wrong for joe biden -- so if it is wrong for joe biden, is it wrong for president trump? caller: president trump, he might have been [indiscernible] host: ok. i am having trouble hearing you. ray in elizabeth city sends this text. "historical good economy and unemployment numbers. historical peace agreements. truly standing up for american interests, not trekking back. he was a good president," says

ray. jack in reno says "the only president impeached twice." here is president trump in february, 2020, after being a but it in his first impeachment trial. -- being acquitted in his first impeachment trial. [video clip] >> it was evil. it was corrupt. it was dirty cops. it was leakers and liars. and it should never happen to another president ever. i don't know that other presidents would have been able to take it. some say, no, they would not have. i can tell you, at a minimum, we have to focus on this because it can get away very quickly. it was a disgrace. had i not fired james comey, who was a disaster, by the way, it is possible i would not even be standing here right now.

we caught him in the act. dirty cops. bad people. if this happened to president obama, a lot of people would have been in jail for a long time already, for many, many years. host: president trump after being acquitted after the first impeachment on capitol hill. we told you that punch bowl news is reporting that the two leaders of the parties in the senate, senator chuck schumer and senator mitch mcconnell, are getting together to talk about not only the power-sharing agreement they will have to come to with the 50/50 senate, but also the proceedings of the second impeachment trial. jerry in portland, ohio, an independent. your turn. caller: good morning, greta. a long time since i spoke to you. good morning, america, and i love everybody. host: what is the president's

legacy? caller: the gentleman asked what did he personally do for you? in my family, my wife and my son and his wife got 55 more dollars a week take-home pay. they also got $1000 bonuses every year since that tax bill went out. for me personally, it is the mission act. i am a vietnam veteran exposed to agent orange. i have a lot of physical problems. they could not get it done before the v.a. reform and before the mission act, and now i have beautiful health care. i can get anywhere i need to go. host: all right. caller: two other things. jerusalem being made the capital of israel. warp speed, the vaccine. confronting china, north korea. weapons to ukraine, destroying the caliphate, usmca, border

wall, manufacturing coming back, rebuilding the military, tax breaks, energy independence, peace in the middle east, first step back, funding for the black colleges for 10 years, great economy before the pandemic, which is china's pandemic, asking nato to pay their commitment, opportunity zones, the judges, the courts for the right of life. a lot in four years. host: all right. let me go to shirley in orangeburg, south carolina, democratic caller. caller: good morning, greta. host: good morning. caller: i would just like to say i cannot wait until this president that everybody is mostly calling in loving so well. i cannot stand the man.

i lived in new york for 44 years. i knew when donald trump first came on the scene with his dad and all of that, all those bankruptcies and everything. he has not done anything for me and i am retired. i would like to say something to this man always calling from south carolina, talking about lindsey graham is conservative. 10 he talked about -- why don't he talk about lindsey graham being gay? host: all right, shirley. "great wall, great health care, great vaccine, great law and order, great justice reform, great again and again" says danny in california. you can text us your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. include your name, city, and state. what will be president trump's legacy?

we will continue until 8:30 a.m. eastern. keep dialing in. let's hear from the outgoing first lady, melania trump, who delivered a farewell address at the white house yesterday. [video clip] >> when i came to the white house, i reflected on the responsibility i have always found as a mother to encourage and teach values of kindness. it is our duty as adults and parents to ensure that children have the best opportunities to lead fulfilling and healthy lives. the passion for helping children succeed has driven my policy initiatives as first lady. i launched be best to ensure that we, as americans, or doing all we can to take care of the next generation. be best has concentrated on three pillars -- well-being, online safety, and opiate abuse.

in a few short years, i have raised awareness of how to keep children safe online. we have made incredible progress on our nation's drugs epidemic and how it impacts the lives of families. and we have given a voice to our most vulnerable children in the foster care system. internationally, be best has evolved into a forum that encourages world leaders to discuss issues impacting the lives of children and allows them to share solutions. it has been an honor to represent american people abroad. i treasure each of my experiences and the inspiring people i have met along the way. as i say farewell to my role as first lady, it is my sincere hope that every american will do

their part to teach our children what it means to be best. host: the first lady, melania trump. you can find that on her twitter account page. now, washington, d.c. is a fortress around the capitol. difficult to travel in and out as the city prepares for tomorrow's inauguration. brian lamb, c-span founder, found this sign. washington,do not enter. more national guard arriving at the capital this morning. [honking]

washington, d.c., preparing for tomorrow's inauguration, january 20th, as the constitution mandates. our coverage begins at 7:00 a.m. eastern time here on c-span. you can watch it unfold, uninterrupted, with no filters and no interpretation or analysis. we will go to dorothy in arkansas, an independent. dorothy, good morning. how will you remember this president? caller: i will remember his lies. he continually lies to the american people and those two impeachments, i'm 74 years old, i've never seen two impeachments in the life of sitting presidents. when biden said he was running, i began praying god would figure a way to remove trump, and i am so happy today that we will have normal, normal president coming

in that knows how to run the country. and i am embarrassed that the fact that this president has not kindly greeted the new president-elect and vice president-elect. he has not kindly greeted him. his low character, his legacy of low character and lies is something i will never forget. i hope the country can move forward with biden. host: dorothea, all right. catherine in illinois, an independent. hi, catherine. caller: good morning. this is sort of a nostalgic trip for me. when trump was elected, or on his inauguration day, i had called in and you and i talked, and i said the one thing i fear about trump is his character. he never has gone and asked god to forgive him for anything,

because he says he has not done anything wrong. you and i kind of talked a little bit, and the comment you made was he put his hand on the bible. and yes, we pick up the bible and we read it and so forth, and the legacy that sits in my head for trump is when he turned the bible upside down in front of the church back in the summer. i tried to pray for him and i could never get anything of truth from him. of love, or help, or being truly moral. it is so sad that he fell down and he is just as bad as he was the day he got inaugurated. and that's what i wanted to say, the character. host: on this eve of

inauguration calling four years later, catherine in illinois, and independent. the am news later reporting this, president-elect biden quietly invited members of the congressional leadership from both parties to attend church with him wednesday morning. the service will take place at saint matthews in downtown d.c. attendees include the speaker, nancy pelosi, kevin mccarthy, the majority leader, mitch mcconnell, and chuck schumer. that is from punch bowl news this morning. danny in maryland, republican. hi. caller: hi, good morning. i think his legacy will be number one his foreign policy, because he whipped nato back into shape. and he's out there spending more on their military so we don't

have to spend as much. also, he did not get us into any entanglements -- foreign entanglements or wars like many other presidents have. so we are not at war right now, that is a nice thing. he challenged china, he never backed down to china. he also, you know, the peace deal for israel and some of the arab nations were really good for us to. i think -- too. i think his foreign policy will be remembered, but all of the pardons he will do right now, and everybody will have their own opinion on that. host: that is a headline in the papers this morning as well. cnn has one of them, and they write trump to issue around 100 pardons and coming nations tuesday, according to sources.

that is happening today, according to reporting in washington. danny mentioned the president's view of international agreements. i want to show you what the president had to say in october of 2017, or excuse me, september of 2019 declaring the future does not belong to globalists when he was at the united nations delivering remarks. pres. trump: like my beloved country, each nation representative -- represented in this hall is a cherished history, culture, and heritage. it is worth defending and celebrating, and which gives us a single or potential and strength. the free world must embrace its national foundations. it month not -- must not attempt to erase them or replace them. looking around, and all over

this large, magnificent planet, the truth is plain to see. if you want freedom, take pride in your country. if you want democracy, hold onto your sovereignty, and if you want peace, love your nation. wise leaders always put the good of their own people and their own country first. the future to -- future does not belong to globalists. the future belongs to patriots. the future belongs to sovereign and independent nations who protect their citizens, respect their neighbors, and honor the differences that make each country special and unique. host: that was the president in the fall of 2019 at the united nations in new york. we are getting your thoughts on

the president's legacy this morning. the washington times headline reads trump is one of the more consequential one term president. the washington post, trump's legacy, two impeachments, insurrection, countless lies, and corruption. nathaniel in bismarck, north dakota. what do you think? >> i think trump is a shyster. i think he has proven that over and over again. [indiscernible] and most recent events and one of the most catastrophic examples was the covid-19 pandemic. donald trump, mitch mcconnell, his republican party, people that supported him, ted cruz, jim jordan out of ohio, a lot of

these people literally said obama left them with nothing in the cupboards to combat the covid virus. george bush actually started the pandemic response under clinton. obama had it revised, updated, and signed it into protocol in 2014. you can literally go online and look it up as a pdf and download 162 pages of finely detailed protocol. host: so this pandemic is how you will remember the president? caller: no. that is how i prove he is a shyster. he lied to the american people saying obama left him with nothing. that is proof he is a liar. host: mike in los angeles sends

it's a text -- sends us a text that says the only president to quit under the job when we needed the most. rich in tennessee, a republican, what do you say? caller: take my comments about recent deaths and so force -- and so forth. if you could have shall be steel or, soul, which i believe he is 90, i don't know if he is doing appearances these days, but i watched ellen, and i think he is a regular guest. the other thing, a quick point, i keep hearing about the castle not being breached in 1814i think. i haven't heard people mention the 1954, there was a shooting from the gallery, i think the puerto rican nationalist in the house chambers, and wounded five people. maybe that could be brought up.

host: so rich, the president's legacy. caller: to the point. i had been driven back to the republican party, on the republican line from independent and the first time in six years. that's not entirely correct. i did vote for trump this time around. i did not vote for him in 2016 because of the character issue. i could talk for two hours about joe biden's character and comparison -- in comparison and in parallel to trump, but if i could get philosophical for a moment. i would have said the courts would leave a lasting legacy, except i hear the democrats willing to pass the supreme court, and joe biden said he would speak to that before the election, which he did not. he never did.

the court could be undone. when i think the lasting legacy is going to be from this era, to expose how fragile our republic is, how polarized we are as a nation, and how events -- i have pretty much become a political agnostic now, if you could call it that as a term. host: i have to get in some other voices. bradley in michigan. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think trump's greatest legacy will be the number of lifelong relationships ended and family dynamics altered forever, and certainly not in a good way. i think that is his greatest legacy. host: don from tennessee, hi, don. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good morning. caller: i think trump's greatest legacy will be to try to drain

the swamp and do it on his own. it's not really a swamp, it is more like a septic tank, a republican establishment, which is why i'm an independent. they dumped their chamber pots in there every day instead of trying to help. as far as international relationships, i think people have a lot more faith in the united states now. i'm afraid of what's going to happen when biden is in there. and i'm sick and tired of people calling in and bashing trump's character saying he has never asked god to forgive him. how do they know? we didn't elect a minister for the country, we elected a president. those are just some of my comments off the head. host: steve in florida, republican. how will you remember this president?

caller: frankly, as a registered republican since 1972, i will think of him always as the man -- man jury and candidate, a president that built everything he said lies stacked on lies. i supported him in 2016 because i am a dislocated steelworker from pennsylvania, and the fact he was going to support us and support american jobs coming back to this country, but i will not stand for a president standing with putin, and with xi, and the little guy from north korea. constantly in these photo ops, basically doing nothing. i remember as a kid, hiding under a desk from the russians. from his relationship with putin, and then we get backed by the press which kept spinning all of the time. there needs to be something to be done about -- done about

that. host: do you remember the helsinki summit where the president stood next to the russian president? caller: i sure do. he said something he believed in. host: what were you thinking when you watched that moment? [laughter] caller: horrified. i am not a commie lover and never will be. especially like i said with this man jury in -- manjurian candidate. i want to show the president back in 2018 with vladimir putin at the helsinki summit. pres. trump: i am here today to continue the proud tradition of american diplomacy. from the earliest days of our republic, american leaders have understood diplomacy and engagement is preferable to conflict and hostility. a productive dialogue is not only good for the united states and good for russia, but it is

good for the world. the disagreements between our two countries are well known and president putin and i discussed them at length today. if we are going to solve many of the problems facing our world, we are going to have to find ways to cooperate in pursuit of shared interest. too often and most recent past and long ago, we have seen consequences when diplomacy is left on the table. we have also seen the benefits of cooperation, and our nations have fought alongside one another, in the second world war. even during the tensions of the cold war, when the world looked much different than today, the united states and russia were able to maintain a strong dialogue, but our relationship has never been worse than it is

now. however, that changed as of about four hours ago. i really believe that. host: july of 2018, the helsinki summit. if you want to watch more of these moments from the president's last four years, you can find them on our website, c-span.org. what will be the president's legacy? mac in north carolina, and democratic caller. let's hear from you. -- a democratic color. let's hear from you. caller: thank you for having me -- caller. let's hear from you. caller: thank you for having me. i don't have much to say except for this. donald trump don't have a legacy. trump has tricked the american people of all colors. he preached -- he told the republican people, his

followers, turn them against people of color, then he made people of color turn against his followers. that is no way to live in this world. i love this country. i was born and raised in this country. i am of african descent. but i was born in this country, and my heart is aching for the last four years, to see with this man has done to our great, beautiful country. he doesn't have a legacy. host: john in north hills, california, a republican. what do you think? caller: i think his legacy will be that of exposing the democrat party for what it really represents, especially joe biden .

this is a history and pattern of joe biden we have seen throughout his entire career. from plagiarism to his over racist statements made on the floor. he has exposed liberalism for the lie it is, especially biden. i think the first 100 days of the biden administration, they will have subpoenas and indictments from investigation. thank you. host: michael in massachusetts, independent. you are next. caller: good morning. trumps legacy will be -- trump's legacy, will be, truly, 100 years from now that the people will say wasn't he the man that broke that really cool country in north america? i'm afraid that he has separated us so deeply that i am not optimistic about the fate of this country, to tell you the truth. half the population thinks this man is something special, and

the other half thinks he's a not so goodnik. hey russian connection perhaps. he has jaded the tract of this country. if i may put that a way, britain has just experienced brexit. when this country separates, i'm serious about that, we will need a plan. otherwise, it is called a mortal civil war. if we can get our country together, all of the disparate elements, and put them on the table and say how do we realistically break this country up into -- i have three maybe four different countries. this is the legacy donald trump

has left us, how do we extricate ourselves. host: the political magazine has a headline that reads 30 things donald trump did as president you might have missed. one of them is the president's 2018 strategy that rewired the defense department's bureaucracy away from a focus on fighting insurgents and terrorists in the middle east to a long-term strategic competition with china and russia. as a result, military is changing how it trains personnel, technologies it buys, and geographic areas of the world where it prioritizes its forces. already, it is led to reordering of the pentagon budget and new investments supported by a pie partisan majority -- bipartisan majority in congress, including beefing up the military presence in the asia-pacific. the upshot they write is that despite differences in rhetoric, this is a refocusing of the united states military posture

expected to continue in the biden administration. mike pompeo from july of 2020 on the president's approach on u.s. policy toward china. >> i will echo the questions ringing in the hearts and minds of americans from california to my home state of kansas and beyond, what do the american people to have to show now 50 years with engagement with china. -- china? do the theories that chinese evolution toward freedom and democracy proved to be true? is this china's definition of a win-win situation? centrally, from the secretary of state's perspective, it is in american favor. we have a greater likelihood for peace for ourselves and generations to follow us? how truth should guide us in the years and decades to come, that if we want to have a free 21st

century, and not the 21st century that xi jinping dreams, the old paradigm of engagement with china will not get it done. we must not continue it, we must not return to it. host: the secretary of state, mike pompeo. if you want to read more from that politico article about the administration's stance toward china, it is in politico's magazine and website. 30 things donald trump did as president you might have missed. let's go to jerry in chicago, a democratic color. -- caller. caller: how are you doing? host: what is the legacy of this president? caller: i think he will be remembered of the most evil president ever. impeached twice? i'm in chicago and i see a lot of death. i'm 44, i started doing heroin when i was 17, and i found out that i got fibromyalgia, and i'm

in a methadone clinic and seeing people die left and right all of the time. the covid issue, people are like, man, he didn't die from covid, he had kidney failure. but the kidney failure was caused by covid-19. they are downplaying it. my sister is a paramedic and she caught it and beat it. it took her four months. but after seeing all of this, just stupid hand gestures with the 666 thing, it's like an old mind trick. host: charles in new orleans, a republican. caller: how are you doing? please don't hang up on me. i doubt i'm a republican, democrat, or any of that, but i'm witnessing -- can you hear me? host: we are listening. caller: the situation with the

president, and his legacy is no different than the rest. money, power, control. we have epidemic -- we have a pandemic and people are getting sick. you know with the least stressful thing is when you're dealing with illnesses, and these heads of states and bureaucracy is either democrat or republican, pushing military responses. put the military on the streets. [indiscernible] it is all of these troponin messages coming out. at the end of the day, one of my relatives signed up to take this covid-19 vaccine and has gotten horribly ill with bell policy. it's not being talked about how these five and moderna and all of these companies are being exempt from being sued. why is this not a topic, when you are forcing people down the line, and we know this is

coming, where people are going to have to take vaccines to get back to work, back to school, back to some sense of normalcy. there's no information on the -- why are these types of things coming up? what about our health? host: bob in quarter missouri -- quarter, missouri. what stands out to you the most in the last four years? caller: good morning, greta. donald trump [indiscernible] he said he was the only one with the courage to do it and the only one with the insanity to do it. the huffington post reported trump spent $118 million of tax money playing golf, up to 2019.

that's 296 years of salary at the current rate of the presidency. trump strong-armed the country by quid pro quo, and he spent four years splitting our country apart with daily tweets, demonizing the democrats. it's going to be good to have a president to try to bring our country together. and trump called the virus a hoax before it even reached our sure. he had four to six weeks, he knew four to six weeks it was coming because of our intelligence agencies telling us, and he went ahead and called it a hoax and let americans die. lastly, trump refused to accept

the fact the american people wanted him out, so he called for insurrection on our capital, starting back in december. as far as the wall goes, i saw a show, i believe it was on 2020 not too long ago, that there are sections of the wall that it is not a matter of are they going to topple over, it is when. he took money from our military and families, with a fake with a lie anyway, which was meant to build housing for military families. so i think his legacy is going to be of a crook in the worst president we have ever had. thank you for taking my call. host: that is bob in missouri. richard in florida, saying increasing national debt as did

bush, obama, and biden will do tomorrow will be his legacy. he has the opportunity to be a transformational president but was not the leader the country desperately needed. beverly in ohio, a democratic color. caller: hi. i have two to three shortly -- things to shortly say -- caller. caller: hi. i have two to three things to say shortly. his legacy will be about hyperbole. you said on the show a day before, his feature is rabble-rouser. the last thing i would like to say, before i say the last thing, is if you don't understand these words, particularly rabble-rouser. look it up in the dictionary and make sure you look up hyperbole. the last thing i would like to say is thank you, alex baldwin. we enjoyed you on s&l. thank you. host: maggie in pittsburgh, he

republican. caller: hello. hi. as far as his legacy goes, quite a wonderful legacy. what is it we pray for the most? peace. he didn't get us into any new wars. he took us out of afghanistan, a few soldiers left. and more to go. plus the abraham accords. imagine israel having peace with so many different countries and more would have been on the way. as far as immigration, while he did try to do something about the dreamers, the democrats were not going to let him take care of that, but he has been 450 feet in the law and stop drugs from coming in, illnesses, and people from the middle east who have an easier way getting in there. when we got sar2-coronavirus,

from china, he had operation warp speed to get these vaccines done and out fast. there are x factors that have been going on with president trump from day one. you have to ask yourself, what was going on? maybe we will find that out one day. also, he did not take a salary. he did not take his salary. he got nato to kick in their share for defense. he has been closing military bases to address the u.s. dollar . he gave me a tax break, and most recently, he wanted us to have a $2000 tax break, and in the past, there was a time where we did not even pay taxes. look back in the history. with china, he has helped us

wake up to what they are doing, and some of the other countries working against us, like the bricks countries, where the asian infrastructure and investment banks. the best part is, the best is yet to come. wait until you hear what all he has done. host: we will leave it there. we will take a break, and when we come back, we will focus our attention on the president's domestic legacy. we will have a conversation with joe rogan -- grogan, and later, michael kirk joins us to talk about his new frontline film about president-elect joe biden. we will be right back. >> the united states supreme court hears oral arguments this

week. listen at sea.org/supreme court. today at 10:00 a.m. eastern, the justices here from oral arguments in federal communications commission versus a prometheus radio project, the fcc's analysis and repeal a broadcast ownership rules. listen to u.s. supreme court oral arguments at c-span.org/supremecourt. ♪ tomorrow, joe biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the united states in our nations capital. in light of the attack on the capital, and temporary closing of the national mall, the traditional inauguration ceremony has been modified. follow live coverage as the day unfolds, starting at 7:00 a.m. eastern. wash the arrivals at the capitol, swearingen of joe biden and kamala harris, and the inaugural address. the inauguration of joe biden, beginning at 7:00 a.m. eastern

tomorrow, live coverage on c-span and c-span.org. or listen live on the c-span radio app. listen to c-span's podcast, the weekly. this week, the inauguration and how previous administrations handled the transfer of power. find c-span's the weekly, where you get your podcasts. "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning is joe grogan, the former director of the white house domestic policy council in the trump administration. served from 2019 to 2020, though former a member of the white house coronavirus task force. first, as we begin this conversation about the president's domestic record, please expend what your duties were as the director. guest: thanks for having me. i appreciate it. first, i started in the

administration as a pad at the office of budget and health care. i told the family i would work for two years and then leave. you have a broader range of responsibilities than just health care as i had at omb. at the domestic policy council, what you try to do is coordinate policy throughout the executive office of the president, and frankly throughout the executive branch. you make sure the secretary of the interior is announcing new policy and is consistent with what the president's direction is. if there's a conflict, for instance between something the secretary of labor once to announce on what the secretary of health and human services or the secretary of transportation wants to announce, you resolve those disputes. then, you push policy out of the

white house, into the agencies that fits the direction we want to go in. whether it is health care or environmental policy, or in some cases, economic policy, regulatory policy as well. it is a policy coordination function, and in my role, the big part of it was to bring the president's options and decisions. president trump and my opinion made the best decisions when he was presented with a range of options, and frankly, it was always my style to bring in people who disagreed with the direction i thought we should go in, or to expose the president to opposing viewpoints and allow him to see the merits of one choice versus another. i wanted an open and freewheeling discussion, and i thought the president was best

served by that, and getting the advice of his many principals around him as possible. host: how often would you have those meetings? guest: sometimes every three to five in a week or there would be one in a week. it would depend on international travel. sometimes there were smaller group meetings, sometimes the health care meetings were always contentious and fraught. they would spell out from the oval office into the roosevelt room, and the last meeting i had with the president was the health care meeting -- the last policy meeting i had with the president was the health care meeting. that was in the cabinet room, and i think that was the last weekend in april or maybe the first week in bay. . -- may. host: what do you think are the president's major domestic achievements? guest: i don't think warp speed

achievement in getting a vaccine would be minimized. in my mind, it is on par with the manhattan project, which has been compared to -- it is a stunning scientific achievements. it is not just the achievement of the president, but he really puts a lot of pressure on the food and drug administration and on his appointees to get that done. i would say that achievement was not born in six months as the epidemic started to unfold. it was really a consequence of more than a decade of work to strengthen the food and drug administration where i worked in the bush administration, and a lot of work done at nih and work done in the pharmaceutical industry. there were some outstanding people out the fruit and -- food

and drug administration that were ready to go for this moment. it would have been easy today -- to say [indiscernible] unfold, we will take a different course. he put a tremendous amount of pressure on these people to get it done quickly and they worked very hard and very long to get it done. so truly, on the base of the scientific achievements, and frankly what it will mean for america getting out of the pandemic, it is a huge achievement that should not be minimized. let's not forget there are a lot of people that dismiss that and said it is an impossible timeline and it would not work and people questioned the safety of the vaccine once they were approved, which is something we are living with, the legacy of that. i myself, i'm not in the risk

group yet or in the eligible category here in washington, d.c., but i would get it and take my whole family to get it, either the moderna or pfizer vaccine break down. i'm looking forward to the other vaccine coming online, including johnson & johnson soon, and more behind that. and therapeutics as well. that is top of list. i want to point out eight of other things that have a longer arc. one would be the reform he achieved and in reorienting the debate in this country about what america was capable of and what our economic role should be with china. at the beginning of the administration, at the end of the obama administration, it was 1% economic growth, china will

surpass the united states during the president's first term, and he upended that by fundamentally reorienting the expectations of economic planners. the congressional budget office said we would not get above 1% and all expert economists said that. and february, before the coronavirus was hitting us last year in 2020, we were trending over 3% economic growth, which is a big achievement. the other thing i think that deserves a lot that will merit a lot of discussion moving forward is the deregulatory agenda. just saying no economics dictate regulations have cost. and we need to figure out how to not just put on more regulations and tell individuals how to live their lives. i worked in the bush administration which had a different approach to regulation, where people would

see default patterns in a republican administration, saying let's regulate to prove we are doing something. of course that was really accelerated during the obama administration. all sorts of economic arguments a got -- about regulations that would cost money and wouldn't give the economy anything. president trump put a lot of pressure on people to deregulate, and that is a fundamentally different way of looking at the role of how the government should interact with individuals and businesses. as they go about making economic decisions that -- decisions and reorienting. hyperbole aside, there is no doubt these regulations impacted human health and anyway. there is no proof of that. some of these regulations took a

long time to alter and deregulate. for the same time it takes a while longer to rehab a house that is old and falling down as opposed to building a new one on an empty lots. because regulations have a way of embedding themselves into the economic relationship. you have to be careful as you pull them apart. some of them took two to three years, almost four years to get done. we saw massive regulation, deregulatory efforts only getting finalized in december of this year. host: let's go to our viewers and get a back-and-forth going, a conversation with them. we are talking about the president's domestic record. gloria in new york, an independent. caller: hello, mr. grogan. i have two questions. the first, do you think president, well, do you think

the energy that has occurred in our country and the made in the usa initiative will continue in this current administration coming in tomorrow? guest: it's a great question. i think energy independence is a tremendous achievement in this administration. some of it as a function of just the technology development the private sector brought into, brought forward. the president put a lot of policies in place to unleash it and make it a net-energy export, which is astounding. when you're driving those costs down, you are helping the economy improve the standard of living. in many of these, natural gas, oil, it has positive environmental impacts to get it on a leash, some of these new

technologies, and access energy like that. the biden administration will make a big push around climate change. i do think some of the electrification of the cars helps us on energy independence, but i am worried about keystone and a number of the pipelines may be being cramped and a generally hostile view toward policies that gave it energy independence, having come from upstate new york where it is -- independence. having come from upstate new york where it is cold in the winter, energy is expensive. it was cold growing up, and we have, within our grasp, the ability to move natural gas into upstate new york and bring lower costs. the costs in the northeast are five higher -- far higher than they need to be because a policies that prevent natural gas moving out of pennsylvania into the northeast, and now it

has to move out of portes in our southern are her and get shipped up. that is an example of how policies are anti-energy independence have negative economic consequences. host: bbc reports keystone pipeline, the president elect to cancel it on his first day, talking about -- talking with joe grogan about domestic policies, the president's record. he's the former director of the white house policy council and the trump administration. mr. grogan, where did the president miss the mark? guest: there is no way you cannot try and answer that question without discussing the events postelection and the debacle the first week in january at the national mall, the attack on the capital --

mall, and the attack on the capital. it is a consequence of a failure to unify the country. i don't have a crystal ball as to when and exactly how he could have taken a different approach, where in his presidency, earlier on, but i can tell you that after the election, when it became clear he was not going to be able to overturn the electoral college, it is apparent to me, and it was apparent to most people paying attention, a rudimentary understanding of the constitution that on wednesday, there was not going to be any overturning of the electoral college. the attack on the capital events were horrible to witness for anybody that loves this country, anyone that has ventured into the capital and respects our institution. to see loss-of-life, that is

horrific. that is going to be his primary shortcoming. that image, unfortunately, is going to hunt this presidency for eternity. the question for joe biden is how does he move forward and unify the country from that moment? i live here in washington, d.c. right now and it is more militarized than it was after september 11. i was here shortly after that period as well. more militarized than during world war ii or world war i and more divided at any time since the civil war. 75 million americans voted for donald trump. how will joe biden challenge those voters and unify the country? he has a tremendous opportunity to do that. so far, his language has not reflected that postelection and did not during the campaign, but

that is ok, he is entitled to that. i can understand why he was not in an expert giving mood as president trump questioned the legitimacy of the election. i am hopeful he can make a pivot to reach out to those 75 million americans and be a president for everybody and unify us, and remind americans we have far more that unites us than divides us. it is certainly my hope he does that and my hope he is successful, not just in the coronavirus pandemic and economic challenges but in our international challenges. i hope he has a successful presidency, and every republican should hope for that as well. host: let's get to calls, greg in pennsylvania, a republican. caller: yes.

my comment on the legacy is i think he, donald trump, has destroyed the invincibility of the mainstream media. in my opinion, that includes c-span. most particularly, i called many times, perhaps you -- if the producers and managers of c-span communicate the calls made, then you know my name and you know my criticism. he has destroyed the invincibility of the elites in the media to tell people what they should think. his legacy has yet to be written . it is a work in progress. we shall see. as for mr. grogan, i have a question, specifically this. representative o because io cortez and others that show cause you cortez -- aoc and

others -- do you have to beg for a job now since you are obviously in the administration? guest: i don't know. i don't wake up every day and figure out who's list i'm on. i am worried, though, about this return of the blacklist idea that we saw in some of the earlier dark chapters in american history. for a couple reasons. number one, i think it is un-american to say this person who i've never met or i will judge them without meeting them and deprive them of livelihood. i think the other thing it does, which you should think carefully about, is, if you have people around the president who think they lose everything if he or

she departs the white house, they are more apt to engage in activity to preserve that president's power, and more likely to push the bounds of the law, and frankly, more likely to get into corruption to enrich themselves while in office, because there not going to have an easy time finding a job. that's where you see in other countries with dictatorships. when you look at the institutions and individuals we depend on to protect presidents from their worst instincts, and protects the end -- protect the institution, you need to be encouraging people to serve. i personally believe this country is well served by people who raise their hand and volunteer to go into government service and better served than

when people refused it because they say i don't like this president or direction. we need people to volunteer and to step forward. we need people with integrity to stand by the president and say, at any time, to say this is beyond the pale. don't do this, this is unwise. as we have learned so many times throughout world history, when you have power, it is tempting to abuse it. we need people around the president to raise their hand and say no. i just don't like the idea of us coming up with lists of people that are not able to ever rejoin society when the president leaves office. host: stephen in tennessee, democratic caller. caller: good morning, greta. nice to talk to you. mr. grogan, i live in tennessee, and you have made a couple

comments that i think need to have correction. first off, comparing the manhattan project, which happened here, to that is totally off of the wall. secondly -- to the vaccine is off of the wall. as far as vaccines are coming, they have worked on these for years as well has other biotech. i'll take on started on on this in january -- biotech on started on this in january when president trump was still calling it a democratic hoax. it is somewhat ingenious to say this -- he caused this to happen. the technology that was there was simply applied. i'm 72 years old, but i want the vaccine so i can get back to my life. have a good day. guest: it is a fair point the technology -- and by the way, it is new technology, let's be clear.

it is a fair technology we have infrastructure in place. thank god because we have private pharmaceutical country -- companies in this country that we can build on, but it is not preordained this vaccine was going to work or preordained that we are going to throw out the rulebook on how this should be done, whether it was early investments in moderna, which was a new company which was a huge gamble to bet on, moderna, and give them the money to ramp up and continued their research and development, and by the vaccine in advance so it would be -- buy the vaccine in advance so it would be ready once approved. it was not an easy decision to ask her the money, put it at risk, and engage with pfizer in that way to bring it to the pharmaceutical company, to protein -- to put pressure on the pharmaceutical company.

it is fair to say we had outstanding scientists within the government, but sometimes, they leave. the comparison with the manhattan project, it was a national emergency and our best scientists stepped forward to develop the adam bomb in record time. the comparison here, to develop a vaccine is normally years and years. we had outstanding scientists within the food and drug administration pull out the rulebook and engage with the industry in real time. they have real pressure from the president to say take out all of the stops and get this done. i don't want to hear excuses. it is not unfair to say that would happen if a different president was there or a different group of scientists were in the government. i don't believe that. having spent time with companies

that have worked at the food and drug administration. it was one of the best jobs i had. it's not like this is easy to do. that is an unfair characterization. host: let's go to patricia in minneapolis, a republican. caller: good morning. first of all, there is no way joe biden will unite this country. the election was stolen, we know it, and there is no good that can ever come from that. it will be divisive, and the reason why there is all of the military in d.c. is because they know that no one would have come to his inauguration. it would have been a pitiful display. host: joe grogan, do you believe the election was stolen? guest: i don't see any evidence there was enough fraud to overturn the final vote tally, but do i believe there were

irregularities? do i believe there were rule changes before the election that i thought were unseemly? yeah, i do. but let's be honest, the trump campaign's legal team got out hustled by joe biden's. they took a lot of these fights in court before hand. i was with the campaign and they said we would win nevada, because so many people have left nevada because of the virus and the community weren't going to get out to vote because the casinos were shut down. the democrats changed the voting rules in nevada, and they won the state. they won it. you're going to sit there and say that is not fair and everything, but those were the rules. i'm from, originally from albany, new york. the democrats who won that city, they have one every mayoral election since world war ii.

[indiscernible] and amusement. i have seen voter fraud before and i've seen elections get stolen, i've [indiscernible] and we have dead people on the role. this happens, but to say there was enough voter fraud nationwide -- nationwide that could have been overturned, that there was something like a constitutional option at play on that wednesday when the capital was attacked is not true. it is not true that it was a ceremonial certification of the electoral and it is an absolute tragedy it resulted in the loss-of-life and attack on capital -- the capital the way it did. host: let's talk about domestic

policy and health care. politico has a headline about the 30 things president trump accomplished you may have missed. they talk about obamacare and say the president came into office vowing to repeal it, and even took the law to court when it failed in congress, but his most important significant imprint on the affordable care act was an accidental boost when he stumbled into pouring extra federal dollars into subsidizing americans coverage. guest: i think his -- the health care story is a fascinating one for a lot of reasons. having worked on it from the beginning at the management budget and through the repeal effort, which failed, then pivoting to more of a deregulatory approach, it is going to be interesting to see what the biden administration does. in their bill, the $1.9 trillion bill for coronavirus and

economic stimulus, they want to increase the premium tax credits for americans to make it more affordable. the reason it is more affordable is not because of the cost of the insurance going down, it is -- it is because we will be borrowing from our kids, great grandkids, to fill in the gap and the insurance companies of course have made out very well since the affordable care act was passed. record profits, record growth in the premiums have gone way up because the approach of the affordable care act is less choice and more washington, d.c. dictated choices. one of the things that republicans got flat-footed on, we just had no health care plan to begin with. they ran for six years and won elections saying that they would repeal and replace obamacare and

when they got into office, president trump was astounded by this, there was no health care plan ready to go from anybody on capitol hill. one of the things i'm trying to focus on, having left office, seeing this play out is to focus more on how do markets work and how do people, patients, and consumers make decisions and how should markets be allowed to fold at the university of southern california schaefer center. the approach of the biden team will be fewer choices larded up with subsidies and no downward pressure on costs. that is not generally how markets work and how you get good outcomes. what you need is more choice on the part of the patients and consumers, more variety for people to make choices and bring costs down that way. we have an approach in this

country that is far too top-down as opposed to how people make decisions. let's figure out how to help them make decisions. we can help them if they have pre-existing conditions and there is a market failure, we can help them, but it isn't helped by fewer choices for people to access. what has been done in health care, it will be interesting to see what the biden administration does. are they going to unravel the association health plan rule, to give small employers the same ability to provide health insurance as large employers and get more equal coverage? health reimbursement arrangements to give small employers the ability to get their workers more coverage in the exchanges, to boost participation over the exchanges . even short term duration plans derived in the campaign as junk insurance. i know plenty of people who purchase short-term plans simply

because of their position in life it's the best option for them as opposed to a plan that they can't afford with options and coverage they don't need for what they are looking for. it will be interesting to see how biden takes this back and how much time they spend. they will bolster the affordable care act, there's no two ways about that. but how? how do they do that? do they allow people to pursue other options? will they bring costs down? it will be fascinating to watch that play out. one other thing i would say about that, we just spent 12 years focused on the affordable care act, whose primary issue was coverage. you can keep your dr., people who have universal coverage, costs come down. none of that happened and while we were focused on that we got hit with the most basic thing, a virus and a pandemic, which is why our public health

institutions began in the first place in the united states. i would submit that we have focused far too much time on insurance as a route to health with no evidence that it works as opposed to the basics that the government can really do and the big challenge for biden on this i think will be fundamentally restructuring the centers for disease control to rehabilitate a public health institution and frankly, take a hard look at nih, the national institutes of health, for how they are organized and can contribute to helping fighting pandemics in the future. shannon host: -- host: shannon, philadelphia, thanks for waiting. caller: i'm a 77-year-old black man born and raised in virginia. in the first place, i know what the clan was and all that kind of stuff. and this guy -- [no audio]

host: i don't, we lost you. we will go to melissa in bloomfield, iowa, independent. caller: high, thanks for taking my call. my question is about ukraine. is it true that biden and hunter are both under investigation? host: melissa, we are talking about the president's domestic record. do you have a question about president trump's domestic record? caller: my question was about ukraine. host: san diego, republican mine. caller: greta, two points. one is for you. you tell us the senate, you tell us that the senate is divided 50-50 based upon 50 democrats and 50 republicans, but my understanding is that there are two independents. one is bernie sanders and there's another one. why do you say 50-50? host: because those two

independents caucus with the democrats. caller: that being said, does that mean that they deceive their constituents in the states that they belong to? host: that's a matter for another day. do you have a question about the presidents domestic record? caller: i do, it's for your guest. the president passed tax reform bills, my understanding is that if corporations pay less taxes, many americans are involved in belonging to unions that can pay out more or continue to pay out retirement moneys to their constituents. therefore, many americans that don't think they are involved in the stock market are actually involved in the stock market if they belong to a union. am i not correct? caller: i do think it -- guest: i do think it's worth considering how corporate profits work within the stock market, averaging out pension funds that support many

americans in their retirement, which we don't really think of, including union members. the biggest investors in the stock market are, frankly, pension funds. we need to think about the stock market going up not just benefiting plutocrats, but also average working americans hoping to make their lives better. host: we will go to market, lafayette, louisiana, democratic caller. caller: good morning, c-span. thank you for taking my call. when we talk about the trump legacy, domestic or foreign, we are fooling ourselves if we say his legacy is going to be, if historians aren't going to look at what he did or didn't do. they are going to look at the things that came out of this presidents mouth. they are going to find that he was one of the worst presidents we ever had. as an african-american, when he,

when football players started wanting to peacefully protest just by taking the knee, he called them a bunch of us obs. --sobs. somebody mentioned the squad. when they decided to say something, he told them to go back to where they came from. he said he was going to repeal and replace obamacare and he did not. notwithstanding the fact that he started the birther movement, that's part of his legacy. he said he was going to build a wall and make mexico pay for it. he did not. he said we would have an infrastructure program. he had an infrastructure week but there was no bill that came out of the week. as far as coronavirus -- host: i'm going to stop you there and have joe grogan respond to the list that you laid out. guest: i'm not going to sit here

and refute each point. the gentleman makes a strong and coherent argument that the president did not unify us in the way that we want to see a president unify us and that there was unfinished business clearly on infrastructure. there were other things the president wanted to do that he wasn't able to get done. the point in sitting here is not just looking back. it's what did biden do -- what does biden do moving forward to unify us in the wake of this. can we get an infrastructure bill that benefits all americans and that people think is actually good for the country? i remember the obama administration talking about all of these shovel ready projects and massive amounts of money but it resulted in very few projects

starting over a short amount of time. president trump spent a lot of time talking about deregulation, with infrastructure and construction projects moving more quickly so that they wouldn't be delayed for years. one policy i worked on, it sounds obscure, but it took 10 to 15 years to permit aquaculture in this country because so many different agencies were involved in it and it took about two years, but finally we said about -- we set up a process to deregulate that and put one agency in charge and have more healthy, domestic fish raised in the united states to supplement the diets of people and improve our standard of living. that's an example that doesn't necessarily get focused on, but it is something that the president, this president did

that no one is paying attention to that could have long-lasting effects on economic growth and frankly people's standard of living. i hope that the biden administration looks at opportunities like that create new industries and opportunities for americans to pursue their dreams and help other americans live better lives. host: mary, pennsylvania, question or comment on the trump domestic record? caller: both, really. comment if he's listening. thank you. the past four years he has brought this nation from being destitute, especially pennsylvania, jobs left, people losing farms and homes. we rebuilt. the economy was booming. the best president in my lifetime and i'm 60 years old. but i have got to address the one comment i heard from the gentleman that was raised in virginia.

you neil for the cross and you stand for the flag. many, many, this is what joe biden needs to realize, a lot of the people who support trump, we bleed red, white, and blue. we were raised under the bible, under the pledge of allegiance. we stop when we see a funeral procession. if you wants to unify the country, he needs to stand up until the democrats like cohen, who came out and is no vetting every white national guard guy in d.c. because he fits a description, that's like, you know, president trump would, would be saying -- host: mary, get to your point. caller: he needs to stand up and say everybody put the politics aside, we are one family. we are one family. we have got to bring this

together and he can't choose sides. at this time, he needs to be the mediator, to be bipartisan. president trump, thank you so much for four years. your supporters, we love you, sir. market, i appreciate everything you have done. host: joe grogan, any thoughts? what domestic policies could president-elect biden put in place that would deliver the message she was just talking about? guest: the first point that she made that is critical in heirs repeating is that there are a lot of trump voters out there who feel like their cultural center is being destabilized by elites on both coasts and in the media. frankly, many members of the democratic party. if joe biden comes out of the tradition, much of his career was spent, you know, nurturing

the idea of the working class and that he was prounion and pro-worker and that he was in touch, he can, if he can get in touch with that and resist some of the darker and more vindictive impulses on the left and in the democratic party, and frankly mollify some of the darker impulses on the republican party, calm tensions, he could be a very successful president. it's very interesting that he's not going to be, he can't be running again. he's too old. he has a tremendous amount of freedom now to figure out how he's going to stitch the country together and i'm sure that he is struggling with how to do that. especially when he's surrounded by advisors who are giving him a bunch of different advice. prosecute a series of policies

to maximize political damage on the republican party question mark maybe. maybe that's short-term political damage. does that help the country and his legacy? if he can speak to people like her most recent call and -- caller in say, hey i get it, you voted for trump but i'm your president, too, changing the tone, it could have a huge positive effect on the country. as i said, the country is more divided than it has been since the civil war and lord knows we need the tensions to cool. host: joe grogan, former director of the national policy office for the trump administration, thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: up next we will talk to michael kirk about the pbs frontline documentary, "president biden." i want to show you a bit of that documentary before we get to our conversation. the documentary will air tonight on your local pbs station at 10

p.m. eastern time. here's a little bit of it. [video clip] >> the coronavirus crisis taking a dangerous turn. >> measured by families. >> he ran for president in the middle of a profound national crisis. >> it's the third leading cause of death in the u.s.. >> unemployment soaring. >> millions of americans on the brink of financial ruins. >> the moment plays to his strength in ways that other moments did not. >> double the trauma. first a pandemic, now the death of george floyd. >> a new wave of grief in the form of police brutality. >> the country experienced in 2028 ton of loss. >> disappointment, emptiness, hopelessness, so much fear. >> here you have a man whose life has been defined in a lot of ways by loss.

>> joe biden told voters that he understood and he promised and that he would be there for them. >> you folks at home, how many of you got up this morning and had an empty chair at the kitchen table because someone died of covid? how many of you were in a situation where you lost your mom and dad and couldn't even speak to them, talking to them on the phone with a nurse. you couldn't even say goodbye. >> it's a political story that you couldn't have imagined. this man who has wanted to be president for half a century and failed to do it over and over now finding himself at this moment of really abject national crisis and that's the moment when the country sees him for the first time, really. >> it's a historic moment in the election. joseph r biden junior elected the 46th president of the united states. >> finally after five decades,

victory. >> joe biden and kamala harris will see -- have received the most votes of any presidential ticket ever. >> the people of the nation have spoken. they have delivered us a clear victory. a convincing victory. a victory for we, the people. >> now joe biden faces his biggest challenge yet. >> i don't think any president in my lifetime has faced the problems that joe biden will face as the new president. the pandemic, a weekend economy, the racial issues on the table. to do it when the country is as divided as it is will test every bit of what joe biden has learned in 50 years in public office. host: michael kirk is joining

us, the documentary filmmaker of this pbs frontline film, president biden, airing tonight at 10 p.m. eastern time on your local station. mr. kirk, why make this documentary? what was the goal? guest: well, we make an annual film called "the choice," about the two presidential candidates. weaving it together, it's two hours. it always ends right before the election in october. essentially the idea is to get inside the method of the two different men. we don't interview the candidates, we interview their family, their friends, we try to really introduce the question, is the boy the father of the man when you get down there and you try to learn everything you can about biden, trump, weaving it altogether, it's a very

interesting picture. we have taken the best parts of the biden story and i think it will help people understand on the people of an election who joe biden is, what the aspects of his life are that may contribute to how he is going to be as president. host: what are those aspects? guest: he's made a lot of mistakes. he's learned something important across life, which is to apologize. very different from what donald trump is like. he freely admits his mistakes, he apologizes and maybe the most important emotional and useful method that he has is that he perseveres. in the face of tremendous failure to run for president two times. amidst scandal and other things, joe biden kept going. if you look closely at his role

in so many controversial policies and events, he's finally, apparently, on the right side of history and you see that come to fruition across his life. host: how is it that someone had who has run twice before and failed could win on their third time? guest: boy father of the man, but the other adage is do the times make the man or does the man make times? donald trump try to make the times and he may have. i think that joe biden, the times have made joe biden president of the united states. he never, in all the times he ran, he didn't really have a policy, an ideology at the heart of his politics. he was a liberal but he was also close friends with segregationist senators in the senate, you know? he was always casting about, as peggy noonan says in the film,

for a policy, for ideology, for ideas of who he is. the american people never bought it whenever he ran a national campaign. great in delaware, but not great out there in america. he just wasn't uniquely different. it may be that what happened to him this time, in the face of coronavirus, racial reckoning, a president who set a lot of stuff on fire, maybe a lot of people were uneasy and really felt they needed a grief counselor in chief, if you will. i think that's who joe biden has become across his life. we tell a lot of the stories in the film tonight. maybe that was enough. even what -- people recognizing what joe biden may not have even recognized about himself, that he's prepared by life to be the grief counselor in chief. host: do you explore the dynamic

that people voted not necessarily for joe biden but against president trump? guest: there's no doubt about that. biden benefited from that. aside from political policy differences with trump that apparently 80 million americans had, there were personality issues. there was decency. one of the things that has changed from joe biden over his life, you can watch it happen, he took that kind of restraint and the fact that he would not engage with trump but kept kind of persevering and plowing forward, i think a lot of were running from trump, those who were voting not for biden for policy reasons but because he wasn't trump, i think they found the restraint from biden about trump and trump's actions in

that first debate, and what has happened with coronavirus and other things, i think they, at a time of great fear for where trump might take the country or had taken the country, certainly the health of the country, people went back to what they perceived, i think, as a decent, if not wonderfully charismatic leader. host: what did he learn from president obama? guest: he learn to calm, certain kolmar aspect. from what we can tell they had a very good partnership, but the most important thing joe biden got from barack obama is what people in washington call the obama halo, which is this halo effect that if you are that close to obama and obama embraced you at a time when a lot of black people around the country were very worried about biden into he was, white guy,

new segregationist in the senate , on the wrong side of the anita hill clarence thomas moment in history in the supreme court, the crime bill, a lot of things that he, the baggage that biden brought with him, once a biden pick -- once obama picked him and it was clear that they had a working relationship, that he was handling things obama couldn't handle, especially in the racial world, he earned, he earned that obama halo and i think in lots of ways it's why he has who he has in his government now. host: how will his service as vice president help or hurt his administration? guest: he knows, he knows the people he has put in place inside his government. remember as i said at the beginning, i'm not sure joe biden, i think that he believes what he hears and makes choices

and sometimes hard choices between the pressures on the ideological left, a lot of people call it the progressives and the standard middle-of-the-road democrats and the people who were in the obama administration as well and i think he knows how to navigate that. a lot of the people who are the young, bright foot soldiers in the obama administration are now in the biden administration in very high places. jake sullivan, john feiner, lots of people at that level. they've graduated themselves into something. is it obama 2.0? i'm not sure it's that exactly, a lot of by the effective who donald trump is and what he did. but i think in terms of what we learned, i think he has honed some sensibilities and he notched it back a little bit in those meetings with the kids at

the beginning of the obama administration who were making fun of the uncle behind his back, uncle joe, as people tell us, sleepy joe, a lot of those words came from the young people in the obama white house and the other agencies in the beginning who are now senior people in the biden administration. so, he obviously doesn't carry grudges, either. host: we are talking about the incoming president, joe biden. the new documentary from "frontline," is called "president biden p we are here to take your calls and comments about mr. biden's career. andy, independent line, you're up first. go ahead. caller: good morning to both of you. just a comment. first of all, i hope the republicans and everyone for that matter practice what they preach in the sense that they

give mr. biden the chance. a slight comment on your last caller in the last segment, we kneel for the bible in stand for the flag? host: i'm going to jump in so that we can stay on topic here. we are talking about joe biden's story. you heard that caller say that he hopes republicans give him a chance. how will his years in the senate working with many of the republicans in congress help him? host: as we discovered in our film, biden is an institutionalist. that's not surprising or controversial. that he knows and reveres the way that the senate works, the way that senators like mitch mcconnell and others who have been around a long time, the way they understand the protocols, the give and take, the way that things work, the way that power

is used, abused, and spread, i think biden understands that. but these times are also very different. this is not the senate that he rose up in and became a powerful member of. things are very different. just ask mitch mcconnell how different they are inside the republican caucus and even inside the democratic caucus. biden, yes, he has friends and an affinity for the institution, and he's going to know how to call mcconnell. i'm sure they have spoken many times in the last few weeks and months now. but everything is slightly different and very askew in lots of ways. not to mention what is trump going to do out of office and how much of his base is he going to hold onto? by now the base is a big part of the house of representatives.

and has moved into the senate. there's hawley, cruz, others that joe biden is going to have to figure out a way to deal with or mitch mcconnell is going to have to figure out a way to deal with if he is going to deal with joe biden and the senate is going to get anything done. host: rebecca, youngstown, ohio, republican. lost her. cal, new york, democratic caller. caller: good morning, good morning, mr. kirk. i'm a great admirer of yours, you and will lyman, who still seems to be with you as a narrator, your films speak with such authority in terms of providing that first draft of history, as they call it. i guess that makes me want to comment that it seems as if the greater national issue with the

biden election is this country that makes these incredible mistakes, refuses to take blame, and then comes up with solutions that do as much harm as good if not more. i think that's the greater national narrative that people like ayden and trump bit into. the nation that creates monsters like trump, make him president, and is stuck with all the problems that leaves and the solutions that we come up with our politicians like biden who, frankly, get elected because frankly we have tried everybody else and he tried so many times, he's bound to hit the jackpot sooner or later. and it's, i say this to you particularly because in what seems to be even in the opening clip it seems to be that first kind of authoritative statement about where he will be placed in

presidential history, there's a greater national crisis that nobody is discussing that doesn't allow much promise for a biden presidency. a president who was elected and i'm sure your documentary will show has his fingerprints on so many of the problems he has been elected to solve. i would be interested in any comment you have. guest: well, thank you for your continued -- continue to viewership of our films. this is our 20th film that we have made in the obama trump era and we have a kind of understanding of the divisions that are deep in the society. deeper now than ever after january 6, i suspect. i don't think that joe biden is naive about what's ahead. he knows how the years in the machine room of democracy work, but it is a democracy.

it's held at least so far and in that democracy there will be a struggle for sure to kind of fix the things and god knows, from what i can tell, he feels he has to go in and deal with, it's like you are in a triage unit in a battle zone. he's got to do that before he can get the patients up and on their feet. we have had an entire government going the other way that at least 70 million people in america voted against v heyman lee who can't comprehend that he won. an awful lot of progressive democrats and bernie sanders voters who do not believe he's anything other than an old -- other than another old white guy. what do you do? how do you step up? you read the papers. you listen to the commentators. this is the chance for biden to

be the new fdr. not only does he have the formidable task of what's actually out there and real and will require all the best efforts that he and kamala harris have put together to go out into combat on behalf of what he and she want, it's also just, it's just amazing, the v him and sans the other side. finding a way to do that and deal with the sadness and depression that i think runs deeply through the american society, he knows, i'm certain of this, given his own moments of grief and how he has responded to situations, which you can see in the film tonight, requiring him to be a grief counselor, not giving a big policy statement but do something on behalf of the people on a one-to-one basis.

that instinct in him has got to be running pretty deep right now and of people pick up on it and he rides and doesn't overreach and doesn't fall back into traditional american political camps and all the things that await any president or official who faces what america faces now , including the deepest division ever, and formidable media and internet enemies who have come at you to twist what you say, doing real combat, conspiracies and lies out there in a way that they were not there during the obama administration. they were rising up then, largely fed by nominal trump -- by donald trump for four years. certainly in the last couple of months. it's a real problem that america is in and that democracy is in.

because joe biden and his claim to be president, he said i can help with this, it faces him most directly. all eyes are on this man, including ours, measuring him not only against iie is in who he was, but what he needs to be able to do to get this done. host: and you can watch the documentary on the eve of joe biden's inauguration and on your -- not your ration on your local pbs station. "president biden" is the title. james, democratic caller, missouri. caller: yes. i've always been a democrat and i just hope that joe biden more stays in the center with the democratic party. i think he can get more republicans maybe two provide more of a unity government that

we need. he wasn't my first pick. i didn't believe he was going to win and if it wasn't for coronavirus i don't believe he would have. a lot of his policies, and i know a lot of things need to be done for the minority,, but i hope he presents a centrist view for the whole nation. host: all right, james. michael kirk? guest: well, there's no doubt about that, it's where he's always been. he's not a flaming liberal, that's for sure and he has said some things and done some things throughout his life that prove that. his politics, looking back on it when we first started to make the film, we take six or seven months to make one of these. when i looked back he had a real

ride the wave politics. whatever was happening, biden, because he didn't really have anything, any internal northstar that was driving him, in the way that, say, bernie sanders or elizabeth warren does or did, he may be the least ideological of all the democrats who ran. what it says to me is that he's this ride the wave guide. when things were, that's what puts him on the crime bill side of the ledger. that's what puts him trying to nurture clarence thomas through his hearings, not listening to anita hill and others. it's put him where he was. deep down inside he's a centrist and i'm sure that's what they are counting on and he has created a centrist government. i'm sure that's what they are counting on for bringing back the republicans who deserted the

party for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is economic trouble. huge economic problems in the post recession 2008 crash. i mean, trump is saying i've got a deal for you, i can make the economy better. that's a deal. he's going to have to get in there and do that. i think that is what he's counting on, that people, the people who deserted the democratic party will come back to him. he thinks that's what happened during the election, i'm sure. trump got a very narrow and intense base of anywhere from 25% to 35% of the republican party. he has cornered the party and changed it, making it donald trump's party. so, that leaves a lot of room for people who didn't feel comfortable with what they saw on the sixth of january and

other things coming from trump in the last year, including his policies around coronavirus. that is where joe biden can find that sweet spot for a lot of rakes, a lot of people have to start -- have to stop dieting, getting better, getting back outdoors and back to work. certainly that appears to be their calculation. host: fran in utica, michigan, democratic caller. caller: hi, hi mr. kirk. my problem is how in the world president biden is going to fix all these things that donald trump, president trump is leaving him. every day it's more of a mess. these people getting paroled, he's like leaving him more and more mess for him to clean up and it seems as though everybody

forgot about what obama and biden did. this country was in the toilet if they cleaned it up, so when they passed it off to donald trump, it was good. the day after trump got where he got, he professed that he would fix a manufacturing company and he didn't. all of these things were already done. when he got his job, everything was smooth and he just ran it down into the ground and took credit. everything he takes credit for, it's something good to. he never takes credit for anything bad. host: your thoughts? guest: there is a lot of bad leftover, what some people would certainly call bad. but primarily as i said, yes, you are right, caller. there are a lot of things that biden and the democrats would like to turn around now and it

will be interesting to see how he picks and chooses what to do as he addresses issues, like immigration yesterday when he put out a plan for a bill he wants to see get done. that was at the forefront of what donald trump came in doing, to go the opposite direction. that alone in the early first 100 days of the biden administration is a test of his ability to power through the house of representatives and what he can get done in the senate. it will be a big test of how the biden presidency is going to go. that is one of the issues that democrats and biden feel they need to do in terms of cleaning up from donald trump, jeff sessions, steve bannon and others brought to washington in the early days of the american carnage presidency. host: how does president-elect biden view vice president elect kamala harris and the role she

will play in the administration? guest: one of the things we spent a lot of time addressing in our film tonight is biden and his relationship to the issue of race, specifically black people who he has known, including barack obama, who he has known, and kind of believed in, been a part of, made mistakes about and been foolish about, work hard to repatriate themselves with the left. his choice of kamala harris, which i'm sure that he and everyone around him thought of as truly a historic thing, is also a critical signal that he was sending not just to the black community and the women of the united states of america, and of the world, but also it was in a way a very specific kind of thing that joe biden was

demonstrating. he looked to the other way and maybe agreed with this dramatic attack on him in the very first democratic debate where she really took him down for his position on busing. an issue may be long settled in america, but it shows how long he has been around that he would have a fundamental vote on the busing issue. but she really ate him up and i think it shocked him and it hurt his feelings. and then five or six months later, however long it was, as he wins the democratic nomination, what did he do? the woman who took him down, whose fierceness and strong

articulation of a position made him go there. putting him -- putting her now and the second seat right next to him. i'm gathering they work closely together. it says something about him on a personal level. forget the symbolism of it, that is important, but put that aside for a moment. i think there is something, for our money, when we made our film , there was something personal about that as well. he changes, he apologizes, he perseveres, and now they are persevering together on a variety of issues, not just race. host: gus in brooklyn sends us this text. "good morning." do you think the level of civic and government literacy is one of the issues president biden will have to contend with? guest: but we would call it illiteracy at this moment, wouldn't we?

it's a real witches brew, what people know and understand. the fact that so many people, it's a small diversion but i won't take long. the fact that so many in the capitol on january 6 really believed, and maybe even the president believed, that might hence could name a new president at that moment, when they felt they had the courage and respect for donald trump, loyalty to donald trump, they were demanding it. that morning they had quite an argument about what pentz was going to do. the fact that so many lost it and were yelling get pentz, get pentz, hang pentz, showing us a certain level of amongst those supporters and maybe others that g, the vice president really can in a moment like certification for an election, he could elect the president and name the president.

such a fundamental difference and for me an obvious example of how little people really understand, understand how government works and who, who is in congress, what they do, what their expectations are and what the culture is recovering -- with the -- what it is becoming. it's designed to be bipartisan, a bipartisan environment. it is all in a days work to a lot of those people. it used to be. now it's beyond a food fight and i think that is partly because of what your text or stated, people don't understand how government, how this democracy is supposed to work. some of that, all of that if we want, we can blame on what we have seen happen right before their eyes on television and on the web to american politics

since the divide, really, started to settle in and get fought out on broadcast news and cable television and the web. especially the right wing web. you know, it's not about civics anymore or civility, even. or decency. it's a bloodsport. they always said it was, but now it is and changing that is a formidable task that is way beyond the reach of a president of the united states unless the senate, the house, governors, and other american institutions fall in line and that seems, that seems a big reach in four years, one man and one woman accomplishing it. >> ruth, florida, good morning. caller: first, i want to say i appreciate the film maker pot

collective you a biden's history. i'm a 60-year-old man and i quite vividly recall when president-elect biden consorted with known segregationists. when he stood up for the crime bill that incarcerated numerous black men. what he did with anita hill. for me it is a person that gets it. and since he understands he's made some mistakes, he's not too big to say i was wrong. so, i'm encouraged by that. you mentioned when president, the vice president-elect, kamala harris, challenged him on the podium during the debate. i was glad to see that.

i'm a graduate of howard university. i was happy to see that she challenged him, did not back down, and that he stood there and took it. my point is this. i commend you on your documentary and i'm going to watch it tonight, but i'm also, i have enough faith that president-elect biden gets it. he gets it for the people that stormed to the capital. i mean he may not agree, but i believe he understands their anger. i also believe that he understands the working of the parts of the government that our current president didn't have a clue about. i also believe he schooled president obama on how to navigate those channels. host: michael, can you respond

to the last part of what he was saying? his institutional knowledge. guest: the best bet for the people who bet on biden, the bet they are making is that the center will hold. that his experience with, if not an actual person, but the economics of the world, the people who used to be in the united states senate, people who are still in lots of institutions in the country, he will be able to walk that kind of a walk with people, without being namby-pamby because it will be necessary to be bold in these moments. certainly when it comes to what to do about the police in america and the killing of innocent black people and other

people of color. he's going to be bold there. there's no middle-of-the-road to figure it out. you've got to let people know where you are coming from. i have seen that happening with biden over this last campaign in a way that i didn't see a lot of before. and maybe there is somebody, maybe he's listening to other voices. he's an experienced guy who has been around a long time. things are changing in the country. to be alert now about all kinds of things is going to be necessary. whether he is or not, he's about to find out and so are we. the institutional respect that he has not just for congress and the government, but knowledge-based institutions, this hasn't been at the forefront of the trump administration. the idea of universities

mattering, the idea people who go to universities, teaching at universities mattering, institutions like the cdc and the world health organization. there are problems within the institutions but at least there is knowledge there that no president can live without for very long and certainly no country can live without. it's all sort of fact-based, the institutions, including i certainly hope the press in the united states. not fake news, not enemies of the people, just people who are a part of the democracy and do the best they can. they will have aspirations and roles in the democracy as well. it's what, if anybody out there has the chance to maybe move the needle a little more in that

direction, it's probably, probably biden. that's what people we talked to would say. maybe his life experiences at up to that. but there is probably a negative there like any other human and in the study of negatives in institutions, he revered and thriving. they are all white male dominated and certainly the worldview is king of the hill in the u.s. senate. it's a long journey that he's been on and you can watch it tonight and to your own judgments. watch him now. watch kamala now. the people that run the government, the attorney general , fascinating back story. or horrible. it will be an amazing test of the posttrauma reinvigoration of a kind of america that sees

trump elected and understands they have to appeal to that angry base of people, doing policies and things that nurture and help, coming back into an america that is not quite so divided. host: the documentary airs tonight on your local pbs station at 10 p.m. eastern time. i will also note, as michael kirk was talking about the confirmation hearings on capitol hill today, today you had the defense secretary nominee along with homeland security, treasury, secretary of state, they are all testifying on capitol hill today. coming up on c-span we have the janet yellen testimony, "she will urge lawmakers to act big to avert protracted downturn

before that, let's talk a bit more about the documentary. president-elect biden, what will his communication strategy look like? will he communicate differently? guest: before we answer that question, let me say that this is the perfect time for c-span. i don't need to tell you what you exist for, but this is exactly the time when we get to take a peek at a new kind of government coming in. it's not a continuation of the old. listening to the arguments, it's about how these people are going to come back and turn the ship of state in a completely different direction. that's going to be fascinating. who are they? c-span, we use you every time we make our films, is there a more

valuable resource? maybe pbs, but absolutely c-span. so, thank you for what you do, greta, and for what your colleagues do. it's so essential in a democracy. ask me again, what was it? host: his communication strategy, his relationship with the press. will he use twitter like president trump did? guest: from what we have watched, biden is, i will answer it this way, i don't the key does twitter. i don't think he ever did twitter. maybe he does and maybe they will have a strategy where he talks on twitter, but i don't thinks -- i don't think it's how he jumps over institutions and people like c-span. they are going to fight it out on twitter and it doesn't seem

likely as a strategy, which from my perspective isn't worth a hill of beans, but thankfully that's not going to happen that way. i'm not sure it's filled with the right checks and balances. biden is, biden is not a great speaker. it's not going to come out like jack kennedy or even barack obama. there is a the personal story of a lot of journalists like me when you interview joe biden, these people, 50 or 20 minutes, maybe one hour, two hour, three hour interviews, they can be limiting to get just 15 minutes of joe biden. the cameras off, lights are taken down, and joe biden sits and talks to you for 40 minutes, tells you stories, pulls you into his narrative. wants to know from you what you think.

that's his style then. i would assume that if he has the time, that's one of the things he will end up doing as well. i mean we have seen the plan, he's going to come out in critical moments to try to talk as straight as he can, get people used to the fact that if it was no bomb -- no drama obama during those years, during the biden years a better wag than he will come up with something. something about biden. but i think it will be biden giving as distinctly as possible prepared remarks to keep people up to speed and keep the process moving. it's not quite, i think, at least his transition has not, you know, it is not a food fight, but a variety of formats

and platforms. i think that's how it's going to happen. it's going to happen and people are going to hear about it in an official way and it will be up to people like me and others to find out what's really going on and if it is working or not. host: so, watch the documentary. tune in tonight at 10 p.m. eastern time to your local pbs station. michael kirk, thank you for the conversation. guest: my pleasure. host: and we will bring you up to capitol hill, where janet yellen, treasury secretary nominee in the biden administration, getting prepared to testify. live coverage right here on c-span. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021]

>> we are alive on capitol hill with the senate finance committee where they will heal from -- they will hear from janet yellen, the candidate for joe biden's cabinet. she has been appointed as the finance minister. -- secretary of the treasury.

>> will come to order.