>> pete buttigieg nona navy to be transportation secretary discusses the transportation goals of the biden administration during the u.s. committee meeting. live coverage begins noon eastern online at c-span.org or you can listen live on the free c-span radio app. >> biden nominees gina raimondo and dennis will be on capitol hill next week for their confirmation hearings. tuesday at 10:00 eastern, rhode island governor gina raimondo, commerce secretary nominee testifies before the secretary commerce committee and weans day -- wednesday at 3:00 eastern, denis mcdonough nominated for secretary of veterans affairs

testifies before the senate veterans affairs committee. watch the confirmation hearings live on c-span, on at c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> the topic now immigration and the biden administration, our guest is sabrina rodriguez of politico. >> thank for having me. >> here is a headline to one of your recent pieces, biden's plan to outdo obama, undo trump's immigration legacy has begun. the president has started putting out some executive orders, we know there is legislation, give us a broad overview of what the new president wants to do in the area of immigration. guest: there is a lot that has happened in a short amount of time, we are talking democrats, republicans, immigrant advocates are saying day one for biden was a very busy day on immigration.

he released a plan of what he wants in immigration reform bill to look like on capitol hill and what it looks like and what it will ultimately be is that it passes, but there will probably be changes. some of the broad lines are offering a pathway to those in ship for the estimated 11 million undocumented immigrant and then tackling root causes of migration, dealing with the situation in central america as well as adding technology and figuring out how to tackle security at the border in a way that is not president trump border wall. that is the bill aspect of it, but the trump administration, president trump did more than 400 different actions on immigration. he is also in the process of undoing a lot of that and on day one, he signed multiple executive orders and memos rolling back construction of the

border wall, securing president obama's daca program as well as moving forward on things like that and even doing a 100 day moratorium on most deportation just to give them time to sit and figure out things. host: let's put the phone numbers on the bottom of our screen, we are talking about immigration reform and the biden administration. for democrats, republicans, inaccurate -- independence, we will get your calls in a couple of minutes. you have laid out what president trump did and what mr. biden is undoing, can you remind us of where congress left off on the immigration issue? what is the most recent history and what does it mean as they received this proposal from the president? guest: the reality is congress has been unable to pass, -- copper hands of immigration

reform. the last time they came close was in 2013. it was a bipartisan effort, there were faces like marco rubio, lindsey graham that were both involved and they were able to pass a bill through the senate, but then it ended up falling apart in the house, so a lot of people are concerned, they do not want to see it happen again. they are concerned it will happen again, but right now what we are seeing is on capitol hill in the senate, senator bob menendez is leading the effort and he has acknowledged that this will be very difficult, however, he says he wants to lend his name to this bill if he thought the biden administration will not put political capital behind it. we have already seen pushback from republicans, rubio who as i mentioned was involved in the previous effort and used to be considered a face of

republicanism and immigration reform, he has said already this is a nonstarter. he does not like biden's proposal, it does not have enough security. and mitch mcconnell now senate minority leader has said that it creates huge incentives for people to come and rush illegally into the country. there is definitely going to be a tough sell with republicans, but it does seem like a priority to this administration. host: before we get to calls let's dig into a little bit of the policy provisions that the president has put out. sabrina you write about the u.s. citizenship act of 2021, a bill the president is sending to the hill, it speaks to the pathway you mention for the 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country. how would this work? guest: he is breaking it up into two groups of on document immigrants. you already have daca or

immigrant farmworkers, if they meet specific requirements, they could automatically get a green card if this were to pass and be signed into law. they would be automatically eligible for a green card and then three years later could apply for citizenship. if not, if you do not qualify in that group, then it would be you could have a temporary legal status for five years, apply for a green card, and then three years later have citizenship. that is the eight-year pathway, but one important point they are making because of the rhetoric that people are going to rush to the border because of this legislation is you must have been in the united states on or before january 1 of this year to even qualify. it is not that people are going to be able to get citizenship or get green cards automatically if they come now, that is a big point being made. host: our first call from ash for sabrina rodriguez of politico, we are talking about

immigration did carolyn, democrat, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you doing. thank you, i am a democrat but i do not agree with biden on this issue. they are letting the borders open to let the gates flooded in. unless you live right in them, you do not understand with the people go through. they come in the united states, they don't pay no taxes, the people paying for they homes, for food stamps, free food, then they come and get the ssi. that's free, don't put into it, they don't pay into it and that is why we are not getting social security like we should. we need to stop letting these people come in and get free stuff. host: carolyn let me jump in and ask you as opposed to a structure to improve the situation that many want, what are you suggesting?

what would your proposal be? caller: first thing, you have to sign off that they pay taxes like we do, they always check if we pay taxes. let them pay taxes for at least five years and if they pay into the system, then they can apply to be a citizen. but the majority come here right on welfare and get free food stamps, free everything and the people here have been paying for taxes and when it is time for us to get something we can't get it. host: thank you for calling, let's hear from our guest sabrina rodriguez, you can hear the passion, what do you make of that argument? guest: her point hits to something that a lot of people have talked about and the arguments being that argument that undocumented immigrant stop paying taxes and they are not buying into the system. a lot of undocumented immigrants to pay taxes currently and under biden's proposal, to reach those

final qualifications to get a green card and to apply for a green card or apply for citizenship, they do need to be paying taxes. there are fees they have to pay, so it is not like a free green card or a free citizenship pathway, there are parts that are where they are buying into the system. when we are talking about the situation at the border, lawmakers on the border democrat and republican, we are talking senator corman of texas, the democrat of south texas, they have discussed and talked publicly a lot about how there needs to be a different system at the border. obviously republicans have been more concerned and more careful on how they phrase it because of not wanting to cross former president donald trump on the border wall. but there is an acknowledgment that there needs to be a different system to how to deal with the distant -- for how to

deal with the situation at the border. a border wall does not necessarily keep people out is the argument, so having stronger technology to secure the border, having better training for patrol officers. this seems to hit at that, one of the -- they are selling this in three pieces, one is pathway to citizenship, one is managing smart border control, and the third is the root causes of migration. they are definitely focused on border security in some way, they are just not trying to sell it the way that the trump administration did in terms of a wall. it is not open borders, that is the phrase that is being used by republicans, but at the moment the way that biden is pitching this, it is not open borders. host: what does that mean to the status of the border wall, does construction stop? guest: one of the memos that the biden administration signed was president trump had used a

national emergency declaration that he did a couple years ago to be able to reroute funds to build the wall since mexico did not pay for it and sense congress did not want to necessarily allocate billions of dollars to it. he issued a national emergency so he could reroute funds from the defense department to get it done. one of the first executive orders that were signed by biden now has been immediately ending that declaration and halting construction of the wall. the reality is that after the four years and all the talk of the wall from the trump administration, they only ended up building 450 miles worth of wall, most of it being replacing barriers or secondary barriers. just areas that had no wall and nothing, it is 49 miles. that is the most recent dhs

figures. that is not going to be happening anymore, there is a question of how long it will take to stop because the trump administration did have contracts with different people. we are in the middle of land negotiations about areas they can continue building, what biden has pledged -- but biden has pledged not to build anymore. if it is a few miles more or less, that is the debate going on but it is not part of his agenda. host: martin is calling from massachusetts, independent, you are on with sabrina rodriguez of politico. caller: good morning c-span, sabrina, and thank you for taking my call. i appreciate c-span. one of the things that i find confusing about this entire debate is that we have a legal immigration system which basically allows one million plus people in annually, then we also have another system which

is of illegal aliens, i know we call them undocumented immigrants. this has been going on for probably the last several years. back in 1980 when ronald reagan was president, we were throwing around that 11 million figure and we are still throwing that 11 million figure around, i do not believe it. we live in an age of you know, competing narratives and competing facts. if we simply enforced our legal immigration system, we would not need a wall. the trouble with this -- this is the trouble with this debate right now. host: before we go to our guests , you mentioned the 11 million figure, but you do not believe it. what do you believe?

caller: i believe that figure is a lot larger than that. we do not have the political will in this country to address the issues properly, we are not actually using the right language. first of all, we need to call people who come into the country illegally, illegal. host: thank you, let's hear from our guest. guest: one thing that is interesting that struck me from what you were saying was one piece of the biden administrations plan which you may disagree with and might not like, one of the things is they want to change u.s. immigration law the word typically is alien for a non-us citizen, it is usually alien and they want to change it to say noncitizen. just a nugget on the language and the terminology around all of this. in terms of the numbers, i cannot debate with you on what the exact number is because i

have not gone out there and counted every single undocumented immigrant in the united states. there is a question of if the 11 million is an accurate number at this point or not. there are different estimates about 5 million undocumented essential workers has been a point of discussion in the pandemic. part of the biden administrations plan right now is definitely figuring out how to improve the system. clearly the immigration system is not working, that is not a partisan opinion to say that the u.s. immigration system is not working. some people call it broken, some say it never worked. part of it is figuring out how to smoothly do legal migration. right now people spend years in backlogs and applying for -- if you have a family member in the states and you are applying to come and meet with them legally through a process with the united states government, it

takes years. it is a huge visa backlog, wait times, or certain countries have visa caps which then complicates it for certain families and people trying to go through a legal route. part of the biden plan is not only a pathway to sedition ship for undocumented migrants already here, but figuring out how to smooth out that process so that if you are trying to come to the united states legally, you have family here, or you are coming to work here and you already have secured a job, that it goes smoothly. that is a piece of it and another one is when we are talking about securing the border and that aspect, part of the biden administration's plan and some am -- are looking at this optimistically because when biden was vice president he was involved with central america and made that one of his projects while he was in the biden administration, but it was

later in the administration so we did not necessarily see results was figuring out how to stop these root causes. a lot of these people are coming from el salvador, honduras, guatemala where the situation is unstable and not safe. so figuring out ways to tackle that of violence or corruption and helping these countries so that people do not feel the need to come here. but to your point, this has been going on for decades, this is not new. it is a very comprehensive proposal that, if he accomplishes, could make a difference in the way things have worked so far. host: it is richie, from the democratic line, go ahead. caller: fine, how are you guys. i am not sure how anybody can say that the biden policies are encouraging the rush to the border right now. it is clear as soon as he was inaugurated the rush came, his

policies, his language throughout his campaign was clearly about opening those borders. to say that the border walls do not work, come on, anytime you have a barrier, it works. it makes it harder for them to come in. the funniest one is, i cannot understand this, president trump -- the band to europe -- ban to europe and president biden now puts that been back on but lifts the band for muslim countries and the border during a pandemic. those things do not make much sense to me and the one policy is looking to change is using the word alien when we have a major immigration policy problem. those things -- the people look at that and say, what are we doing here? host: thank you for calling, a

lot of different points there. speak first to the so-called caravans, what is the reality right now with those groups of folks coming up to our border? what has the administration had to say about that group so far? guest: the biden administration, there public messaging is definitely discouraging people from coming to the border, they are telling them you are not going to get in. it is not going to happen, and they want to change the asylum process that the trump administration in collaboration with the mexican government established. they want to change the system, but that will take a long time. they are trying to figure out how it is displaying people from coming, because they are going through the house -- harsh conditions of traveling through mexico to get here and they will not be able to come in or not necessarily -- there is not a humane, fair, however you want

to describe it. there is not a system in place at this moment to handle that capacity. they will not be coming into the united states, that is just the reality of the policy. to your point on the issue of we are in a pandemic and having open borders, one thing biden has not established yet in the things he did on day one was what he will do with a thing called title 42, it is this march order issued by the cdc when everything started with a pandemic that allows border patrol officials to expel almost all border crossers. a migrant that is crossing the border, even if they are an asylum seeker, even if it is children that are supposed to go through a formal legal process, they can immediately get booted out of the country because of these safety concerns. that right now is still in place technically speaking, if a migrant comes through, they can

be sent back immediately because of this order. the biden administration had a call the night before inauguration where they were asked about this and they said they will have something to say on it in the future. it is possible they will roll it back, possible they will keep it in place, but at this moment it is still in place. that goes to the question of safety and security at the border. to your point about the border wall, i want to say, the u.s.-mexico border which is a number i learned not that longo is 1950 miles long and like i said the trump administration accomplished about 450 miles of border wall and specifically only 50 were new. it is not the only way to get things done, just logistically, 450 miles compared to a 1950

mile long border, there are plenty of ways to get in regardless of a wall. host: here's the headline in usa today. "white house to improve visitor screening." what is the reaction been to this move so far? guest: democrats, immigrant advocates, and human rights advocates have definitely been pleased with the decision. i can't speak to the necessary details, how it will be implement it, especially in a pandemic, when we are trying to dissuade people from traveling here. this muslim ban has obviously been regarded as a human rights violation. it is obviously offensive to the muslim community. they are moving quickly on that. host: a little bit more reaction to all of this before we get

back to your calls. here is mitch mcconnell, the senate republican leader on the floor, reacting to the president's actions. we will follow this with the new press secretary being asked about working with congress. here's a look. rking with congress. sen. mcconnell: this was not the day one the american workers deserved. this would got and enforced america's laws while creating new incentives for people to rush here illegally at the same time. this kind of failed approach and privilege powerful entrance ahead of american workers. >> there has been a lot of efforts to do any form of immigration reform. what we are hopeful is this will be a moment of reset and a moment to restart on capitol hill. there are already a number of cosponsors.

there are experts on immigration who have worked on this issue on both sides of the aisle. historically, it is an issue that there is bipartisan support, support from the community, support from a range of outside groups with different political tilt. we are hopeful that will help propel it forward. host: we look at the hill betrothed that number, 60, that is the number to pretty much move any legislation. assuming the filibuster remains in place, that is in question because they are working out details. what are the prospects for passage of president biden's plan or at least elements of his plan in the senate? guest: i am not the most optimistic person on that front. that is kind of a shared view when you talk to senators at this point. i mentioned senator bob menendez.

he is overseeing the effort on the senate side of bidens built. he acknowledged it will be difficult. he had a call yesterday where he said he felt optimistic that the biden administration was going to put a lot of effort into getting this done. the realities are the numbers are not necessarily on the democrat side even though they have the majority because they would need about 10 republicans to get involved if every democrat were to vote for it. there are some targeted republicans that they would hope would get involved. people like senators romney, murkowski, collins. that does not add up to 10 at this point. it seems much more probable. it is possible to do maybe dhaka but at this moment he didn't feel that comprehensive immigration reform was going to happen. something to secure a pathway to

citizenship, secure the daca program the obama administration did legalize was possible. there might be pieces for a piecemeal approach of getting things done. there's a question of the relief package. you could put a pathway for essential workers who have been involved. now getting a big build on, if it happens naturally it is not in the immediate future. host: tom, we are talking immigration here, go ahead. caller: what concerns me is the fact that building the wall around the u.s. was about stopping that. they built the wall completely around congress to protect them.

it was put up immediately. those to prevent the person from breaking the wall and going into congress. this is my concern. why not protect the u.s.. we have this covid virus. that concerns me whether these people from honduras and all are bringing the virus or some variant of it to the u.s. host: thanks for calling. guest: that is definitely a big concern that is shared right now. we have the pandemic going on. beyond concerns about if you should come to the united states legally or not. at this point, one thing is if you are coming through the u.s.-mexico border and the northern border, it is close to

non-essential travel. first and foremost, it is not that any mexican citizen could cross the border and come shopping in the united states or anything like that. every month they have been renewing this. the cdc ordered to keep the borders closed on that front. there are people still traveling on planes of course. there are plenty of americans who have gone to cancun to party, and there's plenty of talk if they're taking coronavirus to mexico by doing that. but in terms of the my grants that can frumming -- coming from central america twell tell twell -- we've seen different waves of caravans throughout the trump administration. it was expected that a new administration, different rhetoric, would prompt, you know, a new wave of that, with some optimism that they'd be able to get. in but because of the way that the asylum process is and the backlog right now, it's not that someone that comes to the border right now will be able to get into the united states.

it remains that, you know, they have to go through a process. and there's a backlog in all of that. so, it's not an immediate concern or immediate threat, concern of safety and such. host: sabrina rodriguez, you also write in "politico," biden officials would not offer specifics on a price tag or timeline for that increased technology and infrastructure at the border. topics that have come up several times this morning. saying part of it depends on decisions to come from biden's pick to lead the department of homeland security. wanted you to explain what's going on there and especially the hold on this nomination, but first let's hear from the nominee, mr. mayorkas. ests asked at his senate confirmation hearing about the border wall. >> when i served as the deputy secretary and i met with the border patrol, both ated headquarters and in the field, along the southern border, what

i heard from the border patrol was that we need a diverse approach to border security. that in some instances a physical barrier would be effective, but that in other instances more boots on the ground would assist and yet in other circumstances, the use of technology, the use of air and marine assets would be most effective. and i look forward to studying the challenges at the border and developing a sophisticated approach to meet those challenges, to be sure that we're harnessing innovation and technology to the best of our ability. host: to our guest, what do you make of that back and forth there, those comments by the nominee, and why has senator hawley of missouri put a hold on a quick confirmation for the d.h.s. secretary? guest: yeah, you know,

ultimately the hold comes down to politics. ultimately, you know, senator hawley is unable to block him from actually becoming the d.h.s. secretary. he will be becoming the secretary, there will be a vote. but he basically halted the quick process. the idea was, and the hope was from the biden administration that on day one they would get to confirm mayorkas because protecting the country from external threats and national security threats was a focus and a concern from day one. he slowed down the process and it will probably be another week before mayorkas is formally voted on and confirmed to his position. and to the point of what's happening at the border and border security and such, the way that the biden administration is discussing this is they want mayorkas to be confirmed, be already sitting in his office so he can take a look at budgets, take a

look at how things have been handled and formulate a plan on how to better tackle border security. a big piece of that is the technology aspect and figuring out, you know, having -- there's plenty of, you know, i am not an expert on technology by any means, but figuring out better screening process, scanning technology that can help with not only -- it's not only about people coming into the united states, but making sure that they're keeping out narcotics or they're keeping out all these drugs, weapons, things like that. and figuring out a better process to stop that, to be able to identify this when it's coming through the border, whether it's their land ports of entry or through trains or through planes. but being able to have a better system. and they want him to be in place to identify a plan. to device a plan and one thing

that democrats and republicans have agreed on when it comes to mayorkas is just the fact that he has a long history at this department and under the trumped a station -- trumped a -- trump administration, there were a lot of people in the d.h.s. secretary role that didn't have that much experience or were there in an active capacity. so having someone that is confirmed in that seat will hopefully improve the process and just kind of improve planning and such in the department. host: we have about 10 minutes left with our guest. call now from steve in anaheim, california. republican. good morning, steve. caller: good morning. good morning, c-span. your guest is wrong. the experts went in front of congress and told them to fix the immigration problem. it was going to cost $32 billion. this would include a wall that would funnel people into processing centers, which they

would have to build. then they'd have to build holding centers and hospitals where they could organize the system to bring people in and at the same time free up the courts that are overwhelmed with all the cases that they have to oversee. instead of having to spend -- send helicopters, people walking around on the ground with a.t.v.'s, looking for people that won't be found, the purpose of the wall was never to stop immigration, it was to stop people from going to areas that they clearly were going to die. that was the purpose of a wall. i watched al green talk to one of the experts there, the woman chaffs in -- that was in charge, and berate her on c-span for over an hour and then come on the next day and brag about how he belittled her. host: steve, thank you for calling. let's get a response from our guest. guest: we have not disagreeing

on a question of there should be no barriers or anything like that. we've always historically had barriers at the border and that has been part of the strategy. i think the biden administration, just given their -- there was a lot of loaded rhetoric, everyone can agree on, there was a lot of loaded rhetoric on both sides and everything, dealing with the border wall and what that meant and all of that. but there always has been barriers at the border. and i think what's now being put forth by the biden administration is having an approach that includes more technology, that includes better training for border patrol officers, you know, there's a question of once you become a border patrol, ensuring that they know about the latest technology, they know about the latest safety protocols, especially with a pandemic going on and just promoting their safety. so there is going to be money put toward that aspect of training, there is going money toward technology.

at this moment they've stopped the border wall, they've stopped the construction of it, which sounds to be obviously one of your concerns. but there is going to be funding and planning on how to have a comprehensive approach at the border. it's not just a wall but obviously there will remain barriers, there's barriers for hundreds and hundreds of miles, they have existed before and itland it to exist -- and will continue to exist. to keep the migrants that were coming safe and not in these harsh conditions. although we have seen obviously plenty of cases of them having -- not being safe when they're coming into the country. host: and we have mayo on the line from california. democratic caller. good morning. caller: good morning. i've been dealing with this stuff. my dad deals with this immigration stuff. he's worked here, he's been here since he was 16 from mexico. he's paid taxes his whole life and worked in this country and

his immigration status got messed up. i'm saying, it sounds good, you know, that joe biden wants to pass immigration, but it's never begun to happen. because social security's already in trouble. if they were to pass this bill big, it would never -- it would break the back of social security. there's so many immigrants here. it's not 11 million. it's more like 20 million in the shad osaka. my dad has paid money into this economy and this system. they keep saying the immigrants get food stamps and medical. that's a lie from the devil. i'm going to tell you right now. that's a lie from the devil. i don't know where they believe in that. i've been to the social service office. they can get emergency medic health if something happens to them. my dad deals with a lot of medical problems. we're going through immigration lawyers right now. but it would break the back of social security. that's a lie from biden. i voted democrat because i don't like donald trump, but i don't believe in boyd's immigration policy, it can -- biden's immigration policy, it can never happen it. would break the back of social security, they know it.

host: that's for calling. let's hear from our guest. guest: to your point, immigrants in this country are paying taxes and that's one aspect of this. there are plenty of taxpayers in this country that don't have citizenship or don't have green cards, necessarily. and in terms of the realities of getting it done. like i mentioned before, it will take in the senate 60 votes to get this done. that's 10 republicans that have to get involved. that's assuming that every republican, including moderates and more progressives and everything in between, will support it. i am not personaly the most optimistic on congress getting things done. i think anyone that's in washington or anyone that follows congress is fully aware of the challenges of getting anything done, especially at a big level. it does seem very possible that they can get done smaller things like daca. there's a pretty widespread agreement that the deferred

action for childhood arrivals, that there needs to be a pathway for them, having grown up in this country, having been back and forth for years in terms of legislation. i mean, there was an interest in getting this done years ago, legalizing dreamers. there's still an interest in doing that. it's very possible that they can get things done on a smaller scale and not this big grand bill. but it seems that there is going to be a big push regardless to get it done. host: here's a text from baltimore. i think people should be more angry at the business owners who hire illegal immigrants, since they are the ones who are encouraging them. is anyone going after the business owners? so, sabrina, does the biden bill, president biden's bill, or orders address business owners? guest: at this point there's definitely some talk about increasing penalties for employers that are violating labor laws. not just in the aspect of hiring and document -- undocumented workers, but then

also exploiting them and there's some question of, you know, increasing the penalties there. there's not a ton of details out yet or at least that i have read through. but definitely getting labor agencies more involved in this reality that we see in plenty of companies across the country. host: there's also a viewer from new jersey who texts this morning, something is always -- has always bothered me about this debate. instead of americans having this never-ending debate, why aren't the governments of countries where illegal immigrants are coming from held more accountable? they don't even seem to be part of the conversation. it sort of speaks to you what mentioned earlier about the president wanting to get to the root causes and actually go gown into -- down into central america and places like that, to try to deal with the issue there. guest: yeah. there was one point during the trump administration where out of the frustration about so many people coming through the boarder from central america, the trump administration said,

it's going to cut off aid to these countries. migration experts say that's not the answer because it's only going to worsen the situation in this country -- in those countries specifically. a lot of it's taking place in specifically el salvador, guatemala, honduras, those are the three big focuses when it comes to migration patterns. but there is a question of how do you improve the conditions in these countries so that people do not feel the need to come to the united states. again, i think a caller earlier that i was saying, this has been going on for decades. this is not necessarily new. we've seen it under the trump administration, under obama, under bush. it's not a partisan issue. it's not -- everyone is dealing with this issue that's coming from central america. so there will be a question of how to get these countries more involved, how to build out a relationship and build out a situation where conditions are improving.

that obviously did not happen under the trump administration. although trump administration officials did have plenty of conversations with mexico, with these central american countries it. just seems that the biden administration will potentially take a different approach in working with them. host: one last call from daniel. back to california again. independent. caller: hi. thanks for taking my call. i don't know when we became such a cruel, mean country and, you know, what it's going to take for us to learn again or to learn how to open our hearts . these are human beings. i mean, your guest is absolutely correct. the idea that this isn't a new phenomenon, i mean, people have been migrating for as long as we've been people. millions of years. or since we came down out of the trees, we've been on the

move. and that's not going to change because some 250-year-old country decides to pass a law or build a wall. people have been moving around the planet and we're going to continue to move around the planet and we need to, you know, we need to grow up. and -- we need to grow up and become people again and recognize that these are our fellows, these are our brothers and sisters, and we need to be good to them. so i guess you could call me one of those whacky open-border kind of people or something like that. because countries are pretty new and i don't think we really have the right to decide who gets to go where. host: all right, daniel, thank you for calling. one last thought from our guest, sabrina rodriguez, including the future prospects of the biden administration's legislation here. guest: yeah, so, you know, to

your point, the biden administration, its immigration plan is not just thinking about immigration. it's part of them trying to position themselves as the united states under trump is not the united states under biden. and there's going to be a more humane system, there's going to be a more fair system. they're not going to speak about people from other countries in the way that necessarily former president trump and his administration did. so this is also part of just messaging. this is part of the way that i mentioned the nugget about changing the language from alien to noncitizen, things like that, that will hopefully make the world look at the united states differently, after the reputation was arguably tarnished under the trump administration for some of his rhetoric or his relationship with other countries. the prospect of this bill in

its current form, going through congress, is low. there will of course, if there is some interest in getting this done, if there is a concerted push from the biden administration, as it seems at this point, and that's what they're saying and how they're talking about it, there will have to be negotiations and there is talk about biden is good at that. biden has more of a moderate -- as more of a moderate is good at that. biden with his longstanding relationships on capitol hill is good at that. the reality is obviously this is 2021. we've seen a lot of moments of tension between republicans and democrats. i don't know that is necessarily going to change. but there is going to be a concerted effort to change this immigration system. and even if it doesn't happen in law, there is an effort to just change the tone at the homeland security department. host: we will see how it plays out in the months and perhaps years ahead. sabrina rodriguez, "politico"

who werer, thank you very much for joining us and -- reporter, thank you very much for joining us and >> book tv on c-span two has top authors every weekend. saturday, the former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence on the organization's standards and how it operates. at 5:15, an epidemiologist talks about her book, "viral bs: medical myths and why we fall for them." sunday on after words, we discussed the book "three wise men." the brothers are interviewed. watch this weekend on c-span 2.

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