from white supremacist to peace activist. we take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter. "washington journal" is next. ♪ it is over a month since the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol and the effects continue to mount. the senate trials for impeachment starts tuesday. the fbi investigation with arrests across the country. growing calls from congress for tougher laws on domestic terrorism. good morning. it is sunday, february 7, 2021. these are the effects we would like to spend the first hour on the program asking you, what is the cause? what are the reasons

behind the rise in domestic terrorism in the u.s.? republicans the line is (202)-748-8000, democrats is (202)-748-8001, independent (202)-748-8002. you can also text us at (202)-748-8003 and on twitter it is @c-spanwj and facebook at facebook.com/c-span. we are looking at potentially tougher laws on domestic terrorism. the washington post has the headline, bipartisan support emerges for domestic terror bills as experts warned the threat made last 10 to 20 years. this endorses new laws to

address domestic terrorism in response to the riot. they were in such internal threat would plague the. country for decades to come. elizabeth newman warned lawmakers there is a high likelihood another domestic terrorist attack would occur in the coming months, and the problem may persist for the next 10 to 20 years. here's what elizabeth newman had to say. [video clip] >> the underlying causes also increase the number of liable individuals. recruitment is easier than as ever has been before. it has been normalized through political speech, political theories, and consequently there is a high likelihood of violence in a coming months.

including law enforcement, big tech, and many other complicating factors. i do believe we we will fighting domestic terrorism for the next 10 to 20 and i believe it is paramount we have a shared understanding of the threat and a bipartisan commitment to address it so that domestic terrorism cannot further feed radicalization. host: at that committee hearing elizabeth newman reporting. the washington post with further comments. the comments came during the first hearing in this investigation that is moved house democrats and 10 republicans to impeach the former president. the chairman indicated he expected its probe would result

in concrete legislation tube dissuade such attacks. "we have to do something. i am sure there will be agreement on specific legislation." although democrats and republicans showed enthusiasm it is not clear where leaders might prioritize efforts or, if in the end, they can find enough common ground to avoid political stalemate. our question this morning, the causes of domestic terrorism. (202)-748-8001 republicans, (202)-748-8000 for democrats, and for others (202)-748-8002. an alternative view of the domestic war on terrorism from one writer, let's launch a domestic terror war. if you love to the first war on

terror, wait until you get a load of this equal. ever since the deadly riot that killed five people and injured hundreds lawmakers and officials have been discussing how to launch a new war. only this time the target is less afghanistan and more alabama. after the militia groups and alt-right media figures violently stormed the halls of congress, the time reports the growing chorus of security experts and politicians has cast the mob and a light reserved for isis. some commentators are calling for a new war on tabor in response to the riot. the writer says, i think we can all agree this is a noble goal. the notion that the u.s. government needs more money and power to accomplish this as

raised eyebrows while spurring fears about what new internal security programs would do to balloon the already dystopian levels of domestic surveillance that americans live with daily. we will go to jamaica, new york with ann on the democrats' line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think the reason we have so much domestic violence is one, racism and browning of america. when obama became president it really upset them. the a black man in america could come to this point in his life and it is truly nothing but racism. trump was the one that saw it. this was going on for years. america is a racist society. host: this is been going on for years. there has been racism in the country a long time.

why do you think it has been propelled by a small minority the lesser years? caller: that middle america, the midwest, do not like it. host: we hear from david in akron, ohio, independent line. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i want to agree with the sentiments of the last caller. unfortunately, racism is a human weakness. you had anti-semitism in europe for years. you have distrust of other groups. unfortunately, that is a human weakness, but this has been stoked by right wing talk show hosts get paid millions of dollars. one time i watched fox news -- i

will never forget this -- and they had the obamas on the screen and they gave each other a fist bump. the commentator says, terrorist fist bump? i thought i was watching a skit from saturday night live. then you had trump saying you had good people on both sides in charlottesville. there are no good people in a white supremacist, anti-semitic, nazi rally. you get these comments here and there to excuse the hate and i think the old divide and conquer idea, where they try to pick groups against one another, that benefits the oligarchy because then they have us fighting amongst ourselves instead of joining up to change society for the better. i think there is a lot of reasons but that is what i see as a big problem. you need people to amplify the

voices of love and brotherhood. to me there is one race, the human race, and that is more than rhetoric. that should be a heartfelt feeling. when people get rid of their hate it is liberating. fortunately, i was raised in a good household. those that were taught to hate, they need to be targeted in a positive way with positive messages about brotherhood and sisterhood. you may not reach all of them, but the more you reach the better the world will be. host: here is karen in alabaster, alabama on the republican line. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i am fine, thank you. caller: these last callers infuriate me. it has nothing to do with racism. those voting for trump are trying to put america first. this rise in "domestic terrorism" is just a way for the

globalists to intervene in people's lives so we stop talking about the fraud election. by the way, they are still looking at that in georgia and arizona. nobody talks about that. there is no rise in domestic terrorism. also, who do you think voted for obama for a years? the white racists in the country? domestic terrorism is nonexistent. it is just a way for people to get into our lives. host: next is essie in texas. our question is what is behind the rise in domestic terrorism in the u.s.? caller: good morning. fear. we have always had terrorists in america. it started 400 years ago with the klan. people do not want to embrace the truth about this country.

america is a country -- i love america because i was born and raised here -- but we have to come to the truth. it was a country founded and built on a lie. unless you are native american, you are immigrant. people need to embrace that. as americans we need to be building together. if we are going to make america great, then we all have to stand together. a divided house cannot stand. those people that stormed the capitol they were domestic terrorists. that is all you can say. i did not see that many people of color in this group. you are saying you want to hang people, all kinds of stuff, that is hate, that is violence. we have to see it for what it is. if we don't, all that is going

to do is divide our country. you have got countries who are enemies of the united states that can capitalize on this. we need to get it together. as one unit -- i don't think that will happen, but i pray for it -- if you believe in god or christianity, there is one god, one faith, one baptism. he loves us all, but he does not love sin. that is what he is going to punish. host: on twitter and text this is from joe in kentucky, normally the gop would disavow all these net jobs like the proud boys, kkk, neo-nazis, and white supremacists. there is one word that caused this -- trump. they looked to him for guidance. lenny says, he opened the door.

he does not care who supports them as long as they vote for him. carrie says, hate groups of had the platform the last four years. sean in michigan, misinformation, especially from qanon, fox news, and other right-wing outlets, have increased the danger connected with domestic terrorism. conspiracy theorists in congress are adding to the problem. here is the opinion of leon in cnn, ignoring the domestic terrorists are huge. extremist abroad, such as in the form of isis, al qaeda, and others, a much more willing to die for their cause and patient about achieving success. there terrorism is driven by religious conviction and not just political paranoia. that makes them more resilient and difficult to defeat. terrorists in the united states draw their strength of followers by promoting hate and anger,

fueled by political frustration more than religious conviction. that provides hope. if a new administration can improve a depressed, pandemic driven economy, provide needed jobs, and reach out and hear all americans in distress, such a functioning democracy can deprive would be terror leaders of accolades and control american terrorism. in maryland, robert on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: just fine, thank you. caller: i am a vietnam veteran and what i cannot understand is it 95 years every country in the far east, middle east, and africa, white imperial racism

has driven this country -- i cannot believe what i am seeing. this has got to stop. i love america. i fought for this country. what i am seeing now is the same thing that happened in nazi germany. until these people realize they cannot keep getting away with this stuff, it will destroy this country. donald trump is a racist. he is a racist and people have to understand that it 95 years it was driven out everywhere, and it will be driven out here. we cannot keep doing this. god bless this country, but we have got to stop this. host: rich in marion, ohio. what is the cause behind domestic terrorism? caller: several things. you know, amazon is part of --

amazon is trying to silence our country. i realize you pick up different newspapers but the ones you cite the most are the first paper you picked up. a lot of people defend people's right when they are not trying to get superior rights. when you ask for superior rights it is like walking on sand or quicksand. when you start asking people to give other people superior rights and they step back, you run into quicksand. people don't understand how you can go from one time people supporting you to another time they are not. the other problem is we put blinders on. the border, people can just walk in and we put blinders on and

say, we do not see this happening. we are a smart country. we are not a dumb country. we can see through that stuff. meanwhile, our families will be affected. we are giving up christmas, giving up thanksgiving, and we turn around and open the door wide open for the border. we also put blinders on when we have our courts take a look at things. someone put a piece of cardboard up so you could not see the vote and then they go around and they say, you can see it but you have to be 20 feet away. if we did that in the football game with reveries, guess with the answers going to be? i will hang up to hear your answer. host: we go next to kingston, illinois on the democrats line. sharon, go ahead. caller: hi.

the reason for the uprising doesn't really have anything to do with racism. it is because people do not understand flyover country. there has always been a percentage of people who are hateful and prejudice. i would say if you are american and live in flyover country, you understand there is a lot of bad people. usually bad people that are means to people of color are mean to people who are white also. the group you are looking at, trump supporters, they are 75%, 80% obama supporters. it has nothing to do with racism. those in flyover country have neighbors that are people of color and have parties with them and friends with their family. the racism thing, you know, 90% of people who came to america 100 years ago or whatever had nothing to do with slaves or

anything. it confuses white people when we are grouped together with the percentage that are racist. it is a small percentage or you would see fighting in the streets the last 100 years. host: he referred a couple of times to flyover country. you are in kingston, illinois. do you consider yourself part of that? caller: yeah. i don't want people to be scared of flyover country people because it is completely different. when people do not know other people and they wonder, what is flyover country like? say you're from the easter down south and you do not understand the midwest, it is very scary. host: what part of the state is kingston in? caller: illinois. host: what part of the state is it in? caller: by iowa. it is all the same. we blend in.

the people associated with slavery and have the biggest prejudices -- from the east people do not understand. if you are not west of the mountains and only raised in the east -- if i was a colored person from slavery, i would be mad the people whose families owned a slaves. host: this is the time headline, calls for solutions on domestic terrorism. a gun rights activist and hard-line conservative christian one woman says she did not goings at the building. the tear gas forced her away from the front of the mop. when she got home to pennsylvania and started scrolling through reactions she realized she might be in trouble. "everyone was saying it was a

terrorist attack. everyone thinks i am a terrorist because i was at that event." and the homeland security hearing the other day the committee hearing looking into the rise in domestic terrorism one witnesses with jonathan greenblatt, ceo of the antidefamation league. here is what he said about the rise of white supremacy in the country. [video clip] >> what supremacists are responsible for more murders than any other type of extremist. they account for nearly 60% of all such crimes in the past decade. we just released the annual report on extremism yesterday. it skyrocketed in 2020. 16 out of 17 deaths were caused by right wing extremists and there were more than 5000 incidents of white supremacist propaganda in the country last year, almost double the number in 2019. frighteningly, more and more

ordinary people are being radicalized and spurred into acts of terror. weaponized against the republic itself. for decades we have been actively monitoring these groups. we tracked extremist groups lashing out at officials in the wake of the november election. what happened at the u.s. capitol was the most predictable terror attack in american history. that act of domestic terrorism was a watershed moment for the white supremacist movement in this country. for them, the sight of congressmen and women cowering under tables, and nazi symbols being paraded through the building was nothing short of a victory. host: the story with the headline, the by the administration will examine if additional fbi agent are needed

to address the threat of domestic violent extremism. a senior official said friday, the white house ordered a review of the threat of domestic violent extremism led by the office of the director of national intelligence. that assessment will inform a policy review that will consider fbi resources, additional authorities, foreign influence operations and other questions. the senior official said the assessment and initial policy were you would take about 100 days. they spoke on a call with reporters to broach current policy discussions. the issue of violent extremist groups has come to the top of the agenda as a mob of far-right extremist organizations stormed the capitol january 6. the assault was aimed at stopping the count of electoral college votes and halting the transition of power has led to federal charges. since the attack there have been a series of questions about the

intelligence gathered before january 6 and whether the federal government was taking the threat of violent extremist groups seriously enough. comments on facebook for the morning question. this is from dickie who says, in terms of causes, republicans in wealth and inequality. lance says, pence 2020 24. the cause of the problems is sin. people do not want to live by a holy god. the elimination of the fairness doctrine on television as paul's commented. radicalism of liberalism says linda. pat in indiana, domestic terrorism comes from people spewing hate and repeating untruths to people who do not want to accept the truth. back to calls. in washington, james on the independent line. caller: thank you. the main cause of this is white

privilege. a lot of those people were not trying to hide or ashamed about what they did. this is also happening because of white congress. they sympathize with these and are part of it. this is been proved through the investigation. what you see is these fbi agent that recently got killed because when they approach someone white, they do not have guns drawn, they are not ready to kill them. but somebody black could not have a gun and they kill them. this is because what supremacists and racism. if he started prosecuting these people, it would come to a stop. we had a program where they had

a war with these people. i have been trying to tell black people that the biggest threat to america is not isis, it is not these foreign terrorist groups. it is the racist, neo-nazi, what supremacist people flying these flags. why is it a person can fly a traitorous flag? you should be calling into question why he has these. black people are under direct threat from these people in america. you do not have to put a new law in. infiltrate them like you do a drug cartel. find out what their intentions are because most of these people, they are dangerous, violent, militant. a lot of white politicians have family members that are part of these programs, police officers, and we have to deal with these

people every day. host: now to don in indiana, republican line. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: am i on the air? host: you are. go ahead. caller: basically what i think is going on as why there is a rise in domestic terrorism is colleges. they are teaching people wrong. younger people are graduating from college and they are misinformed about the united states. they don't like the united states or its policies. they are against the united states. the way people are graduating and being educated is anti-american. host: some political news this

morning from the wyoming tribune eagle. wyoming gop votes to censure cheney for impeachment vote. wyoming republican party central committee voted saturday to censure liz cheney for her recent vote to impeach president trump. the vote to approve the resolution to censure her came in the weeks after the congressmen voted to impeach trump for his role in inciting the riot. cheney joined nine other republicans in congress who voted to impeach the former president, making trump the only president to be impeached twice. that is from the wyoming tribune eagle. this is from the wall street journal, a piece published yesterday. peggy with her column and the headline, liz cheney wins one for saturday. she writes, here is what the

party and conservatism cannot do. that cannot sit back and hope new extremism will go away, play itself out, and magically disappear. it won't. it is going to get worse. this is the moment it is finally on the table. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell, who is not exactly excitable and tends to choose his words carefully, called it what it is. a cancer for the republican party and our country. peggy writes the gop and constellations of conservatism, cable news, and magazines and state leaders should move against this tendency enforced together. what exists in the dark corners of the internet has to be exposed and refuted. leo is next in arkansas. go ahead. caller: hello. good morning. host: good morning. caller: i am 70 years old so i've been around a bit. when i was a young man we had vietnam. i was from california.

there was a big hoopla in the service about there being racism, especially in san francisco. there was a group of men who were pretty much like the proud boys in the service in the military said they were going to, you know, get involved to find out about this racism problem. i don't think anything really happened with that. what i am trying to say is i think there are two worlds going on, white and black. my black friends have been terrorized their whole life. what a lot of white people don't realize is what is going on. the other thing i would like to say is i finally realized that

the national rifle association does not have anything to do with hunting. people need their hunting equipment, deers, bears, arrows, but i think that has gone too far and they have pushed theories. not just them. colleges are doing all right. i have some friends, white boys, that were raised -- host: on your comment on the nra, do you say they have culpability in the rise of domestic terrorism? caller: yes, i do. i actually do. i know a lot of men my age who quit the nra because of the rhetoric. if their rhetoric was to go

hunting, let's get hunting guns. in the last 10 years, most of the young man that i know that came out of iraq, i am talking white men, quite a few boys came out of the military in the last 10 years that are angry and they do not know what they are angry at. but most of them i have talked to are very angry and very racist. muslims are going to walk into the bar and should everybody. they are way up in the mountains, in the ozarks, and if the military is going to train these people, they should de- train them. bring them back into the culture where they become taxpayers like me and you and become part of the normal world. thank you. host: now to maria in fairfax,

virginia, independent line. caller: i do blame the former president for instigating racism. i am a teacher and i did not know what to tell my students. the president called the kkk good people. when they tell me why the president is telling us we are terrorists, we are not. the chinese virus, the latino children tell me why does the president not like us? why does he say africans and latinos should not be here? i blame the president 100% for all of these groups. host: how old are your students? caller: primary school students. i also disagree with the gentleman -- i also teach

college. we teach them both sides of the spectrum. we teach them patriotism. we never teach anybody to hit the country. host: appreciate your call. josh marshall has this piece published on saturday. qanon is not a conspiracy theory. he writes, as the qanon phenomenon becomes more central to critical and political safety questions, i realize we need a new vocabulary to describe this and similar phenomenon. the fake moon landing was if a conspiracy theory. the one with similarities to qanon because of its strong ideological balance, but you is not a conspiracy theory. it is a fascist political movement that advocates violence against liberals and everyone

outside its definition of a true american. in an eminent apocalyptic reckoning what we call the conspiracy theories are simply storylines and claims that justify the outcome. they could be replaced by others that serve the same purpose. in other words, the qanon phenomenon is not a factual misunderstanding. you can even see this play out in real time with q man on the street interviews in which a reporter debunks some claim that supporters believe. the reporter will say, well, there are a bunch of bad things i've heard they have done. a texas congressman asked elizabeth newman and testifying about the rise of domestic terrorism if additional legislation is needed. [video clip]

>> i introduced the bill along with congressman weber last congress called the domestic terrorism penalties act. the fbi fully agreed. they open up cases but they cannot charge domestic terrorism cases. my question is do you believe now is the time that we should proceed with this type of legislation? >> i do. i believe that while the prosecutors and the fbi are doing the best they can with the tools they have, and they will tell you i can usually deal with this, you also see them having to go the extra mile in a way they should. not. there was a case last summer

that was the boogaloo boys case. the best way to make sure they were able to be prosecuted was to see that they got tied to hamas in their planning. that shows you it is indicative that if we can get them tied to a foreign terrorist ideology or group, it is easier for us to prosecute. there is one thing -- let us make their job easier. the second thing is equal justice. it does not make sense to me why if you commit a crime in the name of white supremacy or you commit a crime in the name of an isis ideology, that you get more jail time for isis versus a violent white supremacist act. we should treat things equally. that is what equal justice under the law means. host: the first hour is what is behind the rise in domestic terrorism? the lines are (202)-748-8001 for

republicans, (202)-748-8000 for democrats, and independents and others is (202)-748-8002. jacksonville, florida, mac, go ahead. caller: territorial is him is the basis of racism -- territorialism is the basis for racism. the idea of religion throughout the centuries, the power of white against the power of darkness, this is superimposed into personalities. and the religious people that call in saying god is going to punish these people for what is going on.

this god knows before hand and allows it to happen and is stupid enough to get mad? in my statements, [speaking greek], which means long life to you. . caller: we go to annie. -- host: we go to annie. caller: i believe racism came from my homeland. africa believe in a lot of superstition. the europeans believed in supreme beings when i got to america. -- when it got to america.

we lived in a small town of about 500 people. a little church closed down and reopened and white supremacists opened it up. the news reporter said the faith of the people that bought this church was out of florida. they were wondering how did florida get such a connection to a rural area? we were wondering why they were coming here. [indiscernible] the military is not immune to racism either. that is my comment. host: mississippi, republican line, gina.

caller: good morning. i would like to know why none of the media ever point out that over 20 people that were arrested at the capitol on january 6 was connected to antifa and black lives matter? wise it only white supremacists? this is just propaganda by the left. the other half of the country is in danger by the other half. this is scary. host: here is a look at some of the arrests that have happened so far. chronicled by the new york times and published yesterday and available online, arrested in the riot. a mob of radicals. the 26 were charged with

conspiracy, crimes of assault, 43 charged with interference with law enforcement, weapons crimes, threat or property crimes, but not conspiracy or assault. i will share that 107 are charged with trespassing or disrupting congress. hopefully we can show youall a bit more over the end of the hour. let's hear from doc in baton rouge, louisiana, independent line. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: let me tell you the difference between an old terrorist and a new modern terrorist. an old terrorist used to burn across. a new terrorist will burn down your city. the real terrorists in the country is the ccp, which is the

chinese communist party and the democratic national committee. that needs to be looked into. that needs to be an investigation. host: what in particular? the relationship between the chinese communist party and dnc? i am not clear. caller: the chinese and russians will confirm it that it is a problem in this country as much as they can because they need chaos. that is what they want. about 15 cities have burned during the summer? the media does not even talk about it. the news media, american news media, is really an offshoot of

the 1970's and 1980's. host: here is connie in highland, california on the independent line. you are on air. go ahead. caller: i am sorry. i am 83 years old and i have never seen my country like this. now to refuse to do the pledge of allegiance in congress, you know what i would do? i would say, excuse me? turn around, face my flag, and i would say the pledge of allegiance. i would not care if anybody did not want to hear it. they could plug their ears or whatever. that makes me mad. i have loved my country. also, about this terrorism. maxine waters doing that to the people, why doesn't anybody say that?

also, that person, omar, and harris releasing all those people arrested. that is not right. that has created a lot of things wrong with our country. everything was going good until this virus came up. now people are turning left and right and accusing everybody of different things. that is so pathetic. i love my country and i hope everything comes back to normal. host: we read some of this earlier. feds, let's launch a domestic terror war. in that they quote the aclu. "decades of experience have shown how law enforcement uses broad terrorism authorities to target and surveilled black and

brown people, including those engaged in protest. the government already has sufficient statutory and investigative power to address white supremacist violence. a new domestic terrorism statute, even if intended to protect communities of color, would inevitably be used to harm them. " john in pennsylvania, republican line. what is the cause behind the rise interested terrorism? caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i just sit here and listen to everybody that calls in and i understand a lot of what is being said and why people are saying that. but i want to touch on a progression of positive race relationships over the last 60, 70 years between what is being

called white supremacy and black lives matter and all that stuff. when george floyd, when the police officer had his knee on george floyd's neck, the entire country denounced that. what we are talking about with the riot had to do with the election. these are separate issues. people are trying to mingle it. when you point out election fraud the people that are defending it saying there was no fraud, that is the democratic party. they are trying to paint the entire republican party as a white supremacist, racist group and that is simply unfair. host: but john, to your point on election fraud, to be fair, it was not just the

democrat party, it was the republican party in arizona, it was the president's own intelligence authorities in homeland security that stated the election was secure and there was no fraud. that is from the republican administration side. caller: ok. but when you saw the halt in the count november 3 and all the states that went toward biden, here in pennsylvania trump had a 700 point -- 700,000 vote lead at 11:30 at night with 83% of the vote counted. you wake up in the morning and see that biden pulled it off by a slim margin and he pulled it off and every other swing state. nobody wants to touch it because if you do investigate it, then

you show wrongdoing. you have people being arrested, people going to jail, and nobody wants to touch it because everybody was in on it. this idea that it revolves around racism from the republican side, that is not the case at all. host: here is pamela from marlborough, maryland. caller: thank you for taking my call. addie may collins, denise mcnair 11 years old, cynthia wesley 14 years old, carol robertson 14 years old. does anybody know who these little girls are? they were the little girls that were murdered by a church bombing in birmingham, alabama 1953 when governor wallace was the governor in alabama.

the rise of domestic terrorism, there is no rise. domestic terrorism has been launched against african-americans since we got here. the successful massacre in wilmington, north carolina, 1898. the louisiana massacre in the 1890's. the bombing in tulsa, oklahoma. do you know there is no antilynching law in this country and there has never been any domestic terrorism law even discussed up until now? until that terrorist attack on our capitol january 6 the? when people show you what they are and who they are you must believe them. we are dealing with a bunch, a huge amount of racists, people who are intolerant of anything

and anyone different from them and they have permeated to the highest heights in this country. host: the new head of the counter domestic -- counterintelligence subcommittee of homeland security is a congresswoman slotkin. here's what she had to say. [video clip] >> but there are legitimate complicated issues around issues of domestic terrorism because, in part, it is about our fellow citizens. it is making sure civil liberties are not rolled over. some of the issues we brought up today, do we need a new terrorism law? i think what is going to hold a steady is if the committee is in agreement of terrorism versus extremism and the data. making sure we are not expanding and exploding the numbers, the cases, the instances. we use data and the director

testified last congress about what the real nature of the threat is. we know he said there are more open domestic terrorism cases than foreign cases and this is the largest of the threat spread . host: back to the new york times and the reporting on those arrested so far. they write the categories of those arrested and charged at least 22 are current for former military members. 13 voiced qanon beliefs and i will pull this up and make it a little easy so people can see this. here is how they break the charges down. total number of people charged for each crime. 169 charged with trespassing or disrupting congress, 40 charged

with interference with law enforcement, 25 charged with property crimes, 17 assault, 17 weapon crimes, 11 conspiracy, and 5 with threats. in georgia, justin. good morning. caller: the internet plays a big role in part of the internet is that if you look at this election fraud, there are open a dozen time stamped videos of boxes being wheeled in, usb drives being put in, and i consulted on obamacare in 2010. these violations on film have to go to court. just recently the new york supreme court, after counting their elections, the rating the judge gave -- systematic ignorance of election laws and

violations. we have over a dozen time stamped encrypted videos. the video from the state farm arena, the camera is right with the republican see. that was not faked of people bringing usb ports. one usb port can change hundreds of thousands of votes. host: a snowy morning in the nation's capitol. the start of the impeachment trial and writing about that is bloomberg. the senate trial to be held with signs of siege around. former president donald trump's trial will be enveloped by a thick security of razor wire, fencing, national guard and armed officers protecting lawmakers. a stark reminder of the violent attack on the capitol that touched off his unprecedented second impeachment. north carolina, ralph is on the

democrats line. go ahead. caller: good morning. host: morning. caller: i started off in 1974 as a radio announcer and now i am a truck driver. back in 1974 i got to put a lot of the blame on the federal communication commission for not doing anything about these airwaves. when i started in radio broadcast, and a lot of black radio stations played r&b and white stations played country and top 40, now black stations played detrimental rap and white stations do talk radio. when i started in trucking my chain or would train smoke and he listened to ru limbaugh . we have he and hannity -- the

fcc has got to step in. our recording institute has to step into say enough is absolutely enough. host: why did you got out -- why did you get out of the radio business? caller: because of the money. with the economics of the family i could not support my family. host: are you still driving trucks? caller: yes, sir. host: defined at the same? the radio is mostly conservative talk radio and, at least on the commercial end, not a lot of sources of music? is that still the case when you are driving? caller: when i hear detrimental rap that is detrimental to our neighborhood, and i heard a guy on c-span say a couple of weeks

ago there were 1600 conservative radio stations, when i traveled through the carolinas there is a station in particular out of florence that has red eye radio. that is being sponsored by pilot where a lot of people fuel up. this is not right. the fcc has got to stop this mess. host: we appreciate the call. from the associated press, sources, alabama senator indicated he will not run again. senator richard shelby, the fourth most senior member, told confidants he will not run for reelection, pumping republicans to urge the powerful establishment politician to reconsider even as potential replacements are prepared to run for his seat. a couple of comments on text and twitter. this one question, what is the cause and the rise of domestic terrorism?

an insolent, self-important out of touch congress. that was hairy in pennsylvania. this one says the amount of denial among from supporters is amazing. i did not see one black or brown face in those arrested. identity politics, victim mentality says lisa. mark says permissiveness on both sides, city coddling, republicans tolerating q. in california, let's hear from charlie, republican line. caller: yes. to take off with a nice -- with a nice lady from maryland was talking about, due to the mindset where the country is in the people are, you are probably not going to hear about something and that is just an example of the news picking what it wants to talk about. as far as all the people that

are being -- you weren't supposed to do it with people from the middle east or muslims. they are doing that with the trim supporters. -- trump supporters. there is a word i just cannot think of it. you cannot just take the whole branch and say they are one way. a few spoil the rest. you cannot do that with the country. that is racism. thank you very much. host: north dakota, on the independent line. caller: thanks for taking my call. what we have is a failure to communicate. it is the vernacular that is the problem. i was watching all summer long,

a lot of people protesting. some of it was violent. that was called mostly peaceful demonstrations or a demonstration. now we are calling a mostly peaceful situation at the capitol domestic terrorism. it is the way that we are defining things. that is authorizing the nation. i don't listen to radio shows -- i don't know everything that is being said, that the way i look at it is if you turn on the news, it all seems to be dependent on who is telling the story. if it is a left-leaning network or news channel they are going to frame it as, these are domestic terrorists. if it is on the right side they will say, oh, no, it was mostly peaceful, they were just at the capitol protesting mostly. i looked at footage and i would believe either case is i didn't

have skin in the game. we are intentionally being colorized as a nation that identity politics -- by identity politics. we are judging the cover and not the content of the book. the devil is in the details and we are not getting the details. as long as people watch one source of news that agrees with the way they see the world, we will continue to have this communication issue. i am over 50 and i have seen so much integration. i am actually biracial. i meet people all the time and, yes, there are racist people out there, but there is integration in music, the arts, i used to live on the west coast, and most people are not racist. host: we will let you go, i appreciate your comments this morning.

up next, will be joined by the bipartisan policy center's dr. anand parekh, chief medical adviser for the bipartisan policy center, talking about any report they have out on approving the u.s. response on the dust improving the u.s. response on the pandemic. later, we will talk to a former neo-nazi, tm garrett joins us. that is ahead. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. coming up today at noon eastern, a live conversation with an author, editor in chief and ceo of congressional quarterly. his most recent book is "president mckinley, architect of the american century."

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author greg cantrell on his book "the people's revolt, texas populists and the roots of american liberalism," about the origins of the people's party, their political goals, and populism's legacy today. at 4:00 p.m. eastern on reel america, we mark the 50th anniversary of the occupational safety and health administration with three films released in 1980 by the carter administration, and later recalled by the carter administration in 1981. at 8:00 p.m. eastern on "the presidency," a discussion on past presidential transitions and inaugurations with white house historical association historians, highlighting speeches from thomas jefferson, abraham lincoln, franklin d. roosevelt, john f. kennedy, and ronald reagan. exploring the american story. watch american today on c-span3.

>> washington journal continues. host: we welcome dr. anand parekh, chief medical adviser for the bipartisan policy center. he served in the administration of george w. bush and barack obama as deputy assistant secretary for health in the h.h.s. welcome. the report that the bipartisan policy center just published is titled "arjun federal actions to accelerate america's response -- urgent federal actions to explore it america's response." what do you focus on? guest: thank you for having me. we are at a critical point in this pandemic from a public health perspective as well as politically, with a new administration and a new congress. from a public health perspective, we see cases and hospitalizations decreasing, but the numbers are still

staggering. we felt we needed to release a report that could support and accelerate the immediate response, and it had to be a report with a bipartisan spirit. so we were able to assemble 14 health care leaders, seven democrats and seven republicans. really the foundation of the report focused on the fact that we need national leadership, we need trust in science, and we need clear communication from our leaders. they need to lead by example. there are a number of specific recommendations related to testing, having a national testing strategy, metrics on guidance, the use of rapid tests, recommendations related to vaccine allocation focusing on priority groups and the severity of outbreaks, making sure we have vaccine campaigns focused on vulnerable populations and health care workers. really making sure all federal assets are deployed to help with

vaccination. recommendations on shoring up a public health system in our country as well as assessment of disparities. it is really a comprehensive report in good alignment with president biden's national strategy, and we were pleased to see that. it is really a call to action. we need to tackle this pandemic with a bipartisan spirit. what happens in washington, d.c. set the tone for the rest of the country. host: on the area of expanding covid-19 testing, in your report, and says release in national testing strategy that outlines a path forward to reduce the positivity rate in each state to less than 5%. what is important about that number, 5%, and is that the target for most states, to try to get down to 5%? guest: most states are looking at that number. it is an indicator that the

w.h.o. and many others have looked to, an indicator for sufficient testing. you want to be at 5% or lower. unfortunately, two-thirds of states are above 5%. one-third of states are above 10%. many states are in the 15, 20, 25% level. that indicates insufficient testing. testing is so important to identify and isolate cases, quarantine contacts. host: i saw a report this week, some of them expressed concerns that the priority now is vaccination. that testing and contact tracing has taken a backseat. guest: both are absolutely critical. i think we need to refocus our work on testing. again, that is really important to break chains of transmission. you need rapid tests to test the a symptomatic population, and we

need to accelerate our vaccination plan. both are very important public health tools and we need to emphasize both of them. host: in the recommendation of vaccine transparency and distribution, it is launching bipartisan policies -- launching a national covid-19 vaccination campaign. the recommendation says states should develop a strategy to vaccinate vulnerable populations and track vaccination rates with specific focus on communities of color, tribal nations, low-income americans and those living in disparate geographic areas. right now, what is the reporting leg in most states in those specific population areas? guest: some states are reporting very specifically. other states are not. some states are beginning to, for example, mandate reporting based on race and ethnicity. we need to build better data

because there are so many vulnerable populations. communities of color, who we know have been disproportionately impacted. health inequities driving a disproportionate number of cases and driving a disproportionate number of deaths. some of the data is there and some of it is not. that is why in our report, we call on congress to provide the enforcement authority to collect the important data as well as improve the public health data infrastructure. it is not fair to ask states and localities to do that if the data infrastructure is not there as well. host: currently in this national strategy, in terms of recommendations, are you looking for the federal government -- is this a national strategy in terms of number of vaccines provided to states, logistical support to states, and reporting from those states? guest: that's right.

we need a comprehensive strategy that looks at all those components. probably allocating vaccines per capita. we need to also look at the size of the priority groups as well as severe to have outbreaks. then we need to make sure we sure up supplies. get vaccines out there. address vaccine hesitancy. we need to make sure all federal assets are deployed to set up community vaccination sites. it is a much more room last -- coordination is the key. coordination at the state and federal level. if you don't have coordination then you are in a situation where americans are today where they want to get a vaccine but they don't know where to go. they are calling their grocery store and their pharmacy. the better coordination at all levels of government, the better communication to the public there will be.

host: our guest is dr. anand parekh chief medical adviser at the bipartisan policy center. the lines are comes in for those of you in the eastern and central time zones 202-748-8000. ,mountain and pacific, it is 202-748-8001. and for medical professionals, 202-748-8002. what about for states that seem to be doing well in terms of vaccine rollout? what are your thoughts? what are some states you are seeing that may be an example to the federal government and other state in getting the vaccination rollout correct? guest: great question. states like west virginia, new mexico, north dakota, if you look at the percentage of vaccines administered compared to the percentage of vaccines disturb richard, states like those are at -- compared to the

percentage of vaccines distributed, you have states like those that are at 90%. they work with independent vaccines to get vaccine out. they have really been organized. they have also liberalized their priority groups, ensuring that they expand that to match supply and demand. you have seen some states that have done an exceptional job. in the last week or so, you are seeing improvements across the board. two weeks ago, we were quite concerned when the initial data appeared, but only about one third of vaccines distributed were being administered. now we are at about two thirds, 70% of the vaccines this generated have been administered. i think you will continue to see that percentage rise. then there is also better communication. many states had been holding back the second dose because they hadn't really known how much supply they were going to

receive. the federal government recently said states are now going to receive a three-we could notice about supply and the guidance has been don't hold back vaccine doses, administer them as fast as you can come out you will get replies. host: a lot of americans are probably the bombarded -- probably being bombarded with messages on vaccinations. a lot of information coming out. in terms of a national message and a national strategy on vaccine distribution, is there anything analogous to what we have done in the past as a country in terms of messaging on health issues, or other issues that we have done on a national scale that might fit this moment? guest: you think about anti-tobacco, messaging, there have been many movements in our

history. i think the messaging on covid-19 has to be kept simple. number one, the vaccine, the pfizer and moderna vaccines out right now that have received emergency use authorization, they are safe. they are effective. they are remarkable vaccines. that is point number one. to counter the vaccine misinformation out there. number 2, we know that demand outstrips supply. the american people need to know that the relief is coming, more vaccines are coming. stay the course, contact your local health department command your health care professional and make sure you are preregistered so that when that phone rings and you get that email to get vaccinated, you can get vaccinated. the more americans we can get vaccinated quicker, the quicker we will get out of this

pandemic. host: you mentioned vaccine hesitancy, i wanted to show you a poll from kaiser health news. compared to december, a larger share now want the vaccine as soon as possible. in december, 6% of the persons they polled had already been vaccinated. the number that says we will wait and see, 39%. definitely not getting it, 13%. you have 51% still of people on just sort of a wait-and-see, or wait and see how it is working. you talked about hesitancy. how does this national strategy improved but or lessen that hesitancy? guest: clear concise messaging is critical. the trials for the vaccines, tens of thousands of people participated in the trials.

40 million doses have been administered in the united states. over 100 million people worldwide. there are many people, scientists, continuing to look at the vaccines, following the vaccines for any kind of post-vaccination events, as well. so there is an incredible number of eyes focused on the vaccine. keeping the messaging simple that this is safe, this is effective. i am not surprised that the percentages of americans who want the vaccine have increased. but to your point, there is still a small percentage that is hesitant, so i think continuing to focus on key messages about safety and effectiveness, this is the best way to regain our normal lives, and that vaccine is coming, i think that is really what we need to focus on. host: let's hear from callers. we will start with eva in

columbia, mississippi. caller: nobody can tell me if it is safe for me to take a drug. i am 77 years old. i had a stroke 10 years ago and it only affected my eyes. i am blind from the stroke. also, i am allergic to sulfur drugs, latex, and the family of drugs that fosamax falls in but nobody can tell me if it is safe for me to take the vaccine. do you have any suggestions that may help me decide? guest: thank you for that question, i would ask you -- you ask your health care provider or health care professional. from my perspective, absolutely, you are not only eligible for the vaccine, but i think it would be very important for you given your age as well as your

condition. we are really concerned for individuals particularly who are at risk for severe illness from covid-19, and you certainly fall in that category, so i hope to have a chance to discuss it further with your physician or health care professional. but, absolutely, this is a safe and effective vaccine that can help you. host: next is joe in asheville, north carolina. caller: good morning. i am 69 years old, i have stage five chronic renal failure. i have an icd and a pacemaker. i have not been on dialysis for seven years because my baseline is study. i called up the cdc, i called the kidney foundation, i called the howard foundation, i called moderna, i called pfizer, and i called up johnson & johnson. i told them my history and they kept me going up the food chain.

i spent about four hours on the phone, and besides their quote of "this is experimental, we don't have legal liability," they turned around and said, we have no information, just do what you are doing, period. host: what did you doctors say? caller: he turned around and just like pfizer, sent me a big package to write down my history. the doctor said, we need more guinea pigs to take this stuff and you should just take it, because that we can find out what sort of ramifications this can be. host: dr. parekh, to your knowledge, so far the vaccine rollout in terms of any ill effects has been fairly minimal? guest: absolutely right. there is a lot of monitoring. there have been very rare cases of what we called anaphylaxis or

severe allergic reaction, we are talking about 1-3 per million, and epipen has been the treatment there. all americans who get vaccinated, right after they get the vaccine, they are monitored for 15 minutes to ensure that they don't have an allergic reaction. in terms of side effects, we are talking mild side effects at the injection site for some people, some mild flulike symptoms for a couple of days. you will not get covid-19 from the vaccine. again, this is a safe and effective vaccine. i will say that i am concerned about the caller that we just heard, what their physician said. physicians and health care professionals are trusted members of the society. they should to them for evidence-based information. for any health care professional to say, well, you will be a

guinea pig if you get the vaccine, that is a disservice to the american public, a disservice to patients. it is really important that all, particularly health care professionals, have the evidence-based information so that they can counsel their patients wisely. some of the preliminary reports that there has been hesitancy among health care professionals as well shows that we need to do more on vaccine hesitancy, educating everyone including my peers about where we are on science. host: our guest, dr. anand parekh, a board-certified internist, and adjunct faculty at the johns hopkins school in baltimore. you are a medical professional. have you gotten the vaccine yet? guest: i haven't. i am not seeing patients right now. i am waiting in line just like all americans.

but it is the same advice i gave my family or my friends, really focusing on the science and what we know and trying to establish trust. host: it is two and a half weeks into the administration. i want to ask you about the actions taken so far by president biden, his executive orders anyway. he has signed orders requiring masks to be worn on federal property and public transportation. he has called on the use of the defense production act to boost funding to localities in state expand vaccination sites, and established the covid-19 response office to enhance federal and statewide coordination. how do those efforts jive with the report the bipartisan policy center have just published. host: they are very much aligned, bill. you have seen a robust -- from the administration releasing a national strategy. you have to have a plan.

a series of executive orders or requests to congress to support and found that national strategy. you mentioned shoring up the vaccine supply, using the defense production act to increase testing as well as personal protective equipment. many of those recommendations, we are aligned. our report tries to provide more specificity to some of the areas, again, having a national testing strategy with metrics, specific guidance to schools and businesses, looking at the vaccination campaign, all these elements we talked about our critical. i have the aim -- ours had the aim of providing specific direction to the administration as well as congress, and we hope both the administration and congress will take a look at the report to further enhance the response. host: the defense production act was authorized for use during the trump administration.

what is different this time? guest: i would say the biggest difference is looking at the defense production act, its use from an ad hoc tool to really a comprehensive tool. what the biden administration has done, and recalled for this months ago, they did in initial analysis. they asked questions about what we did. it is a massive pandemic. for the next few months when it comes to vaccine, testing and ppe, where are the shortages, how much do we need? help quickly do we need it? can the private sector deliver? if not, how do we partner with the private sector? they identified 12 specific critical medical material and items related to ppe, testing, and vaccines, and they are going through every single one to find out how to use the defense production act of yet i think you have just seen an

announcement is the last couple of days on home testing kits but they want to use the defense production act on. host: on twitter, michael says, it seems the u.s. military would be the best to train state and local governments and local health departments en masse testing and vaccinations. is that what the bipartisan policy center is calling for? guest: yes. you have also heard from the administration in the last week, the deployment of the defense department personnel. we have also heard about the national guard, fema. that is a critical recommendation in bpc's report. that all federal assets are deployed. and there are many, fema, cdc, united states public health commission, medical reserve corps all over the country.

this is the time for the federal government to identify all these assets to help both train and staff vaccination sites and support states and localities, because this is when they need the help. host: are we facing a real strain on medical personnel in this country? guest: we are, bill. so many of my family, friends, colleagues, it has been over a year now, and there are so many health care professionals who haven't taken many days off. the mental strain, you can imagine day in and day out. it takes a toll. we need to think about that. our health care professionals out there who have been every day working in hospitals and health care facilities, taking care of the patients. we owe them a debt of gratitude. they are heroes.

we need to think about their mental health, as well as think about the personal protective equipment that they need to keep safe. i think that is something we need to continually focus on. host: we have about 20 more minutes with our guest, dr. parekh. if you are a medical professional, our line for you is 202-748-8002. to jerry in new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning, doctor. i was going to give you kudos for your statements that i have a few concerns i want to go over with you. number one, when he said the administration is calling for the military and all, you do realize that president trump did that already, right? the second thing is when president trump talked about the vaccines and having them so soon, the news media went against this so bad that people got discouraged. that is a problem. if you take the politics out of it whether it be biden or trump,

and you just give the facts. fauci, to me, is the most corrupt. he has to his mind so many times and now he has gone against president trump and kind of suede toward biden -- swayed toward biden, making this political. you talked about health care workers, guess what, we had to do it a year ago. i traveled on the plane and i had to wear a mask. this is it nothing new. him mandating it in transportation, we all had to do it. or is it now that biden is the hero and he is saying everything right, when we had to do this a year ago? so, please, take the politics out. give the facts, ok? and not make it where -- because i am listening to all kinds of stuff -- oh, the vaccine is not good.

same with hydroxychloroquine, my god, the lives that could have possibly saved. guest: i think the overall theme that we need to depoliticize the response is a good one. you have heard many people talk about that. we also need to give credit where credit is due. the trump administration leadership over operation warp speed to work with the private sector to wear these vaccines were ready for the fda to review was absolutely important. the previous administration, in many other areas, failed. whether it was in communication, testing early on, providing personal protective equipment, whether it was ensuring vaccine distribution plans were ready, and i think we will see how well this administration does. this is like a relay race, where you are passing the baton.

we need to depoliticize the process. we are all in this together, democrats, republicans, independents. we have seen how far one administration has taken us and we move from that point on. many specific areas that were brought up from masks, physical distancing, the american public has done a good job, but we should continue to do better and i think that is why you are seeing reminders of the importance of wearing masks, reminders of the importance of physically distancing and avoiding crowds. some of this may not seem new but we can still do better and save lives with clear and consistent messaging. it is really important. we should look at this not politically, who is better, who deserves credit, but this is really about saving lives, about getting through the pandemic. it is about focusing on

scientific evidence. that is another thing that i think we need to continue to improve on. i think you are seeing that this new administration. that is what will get us out of this pandemic. host: due and the response to the pandemic, one of your recommendations in the report -- depoliticizing the response to the pandemic, one of your recommendations in the report, you're right that the 1918 pandemic and the covid-19 pandemic were and are highly political events. in some cases we ignored science and downplayed the seriousness of ailments. cities shut down but reopened too soon. people refused to wear masks. his history repeating this is history repeating itself? guest: it is, a bit. public health and politics are always intertwined.

public health, the first word is the public. you really need to connect with the public and understand where they are and make them -- meet them where they are. you have to be open-minded. politics and public health are always intertwined, but that doesn't mean there shouldn't be national leadership, that we cannot have trust in science, but we cannot ensure clear communication, coordination. all of those things are absolutely important. i will also say, what happens in washington, d.c. does set the tone. we can't have half the country treating the pandemic seriously and half the country not. one of the concerns of having a relief bill come out of congress without any kind of bipartisan support could be problematic in the sense that, again, you see this inadvertently being

politicized. that is why the bipartisan health center put forward -- bipartisan policy center put forth a proposal trying to get bipartisan support for the next congressional covid-19 package. the tone and the spirit of bipartisanship is what the country needs right now. host: that's good to oklahoma city charles, good morning. caller: good morning. i sure enjoy your show. i was not going to say anything about politics, but since the lady before me wanted to make it political -- i always have to brush my teeth after i say his name -- but trump lied to us. he didn't care anything about the american people. at least now we finally have a decent man in office. and, like i said, i will have to go brush my teeth after saying his name. but, i am so thankful that we do have a decent man in office now. you know, here in oklahoma,

these republicans need to put their masks back on and respectability else. stop their whining. i have had a sore throat for about two weeks now, like one i have never had before. do you think it is anything i have to worry about? guest: sir, thank you for the question. i hope you can have a call with your physician, your health care professional, and get that sorted out. there are many different things that sore throat could be. i hope you get a chance to get your vaccine as well. again, i think the theme of the depoliticizing things is important. you are right, politics does come into play. the data you quoted about more americans be eager to get the vaccine, bill, that has changed as more americans have gotten the vaccine. but also, the u.s. administration that has focused,

talking about the importance of the vaccine, that matters. that can help americans. that message can help americans. we continue to need clear and consistent messages from our leaders really on both sides of the aisle, that is critical. host: a question for you about testing -- or a comment. he says, the cdc should distribute fast antigen tests free for all americans. people who want a test can report via phone results and test regularly based on guidelines provided. what do you think that the bipartisan policy center, what is the role of american pharmacies in the national vaccine rollout? guest: american pharmacies are critical. they are right there at the frontlines. in so many people neighborhoods. that being said, there are pharmacy deserts in the country. when we talk about underserved

populations, we have to realize not everybody has access to the pharmacy. sometimes you need mobile vans. you need the pharmacy to get out in the communities. but pharmacies are essential, we see them as an important part of the vaccination rollout. many large-chain pharmacies will start to administer the vaccine to americans. in terms of testing, i think we have heard from administration and the last week their goal to get 50 million home testing kits. you don't require a prescription, sold through the pharmacy. so like a caller said, americans at home can take a test and they can report it in. i think that last part is critical. when of the concerns on home testing is you test positive or negative, how do you communicate the results? there does need to be data systems to communicate that result as positive, to isolate the individual.

if it is negative, perhaps informing businesses and schools. that communication piece is important. the accuracy of these home tests, bill, the fda will have to look closely at that. they have to be easy to administer as well, not anything complicated. i think there is a role for home-based testing, but a national strategy that we call for would lay this out. it has to be easy to understand the american public. host: next up, a caller from plainview, new york. go ahead. caller: good morning. from my perspective, the issue seems to be that demand exceeds supply. and then there is for distribution. the plans -- trump's plan had a partnership with walgreens and cvs. i was at cvs yesterday to pick

up a prescription. i asked about it. she said there is no list. yet in florida, my understanding is you can get a vaccine in publix. side of understand why it is so difficult to partner -- so i don't understand why it is so difficult to partner with pharmacies and supermarkets. also, trump did have a partnership with the pharmacies, and also, biden says 100 million vaccines in 100 days. well, we were already at that level. he is trying to take credit for things that have already occurred. in terms of these testing kits, i don't know how many false-positives there would be, how accurate they are.

in terms of mask-wearing, my understanding is that after a day or two, you are supposed to throw the mascot. that is never mentioned -- through the mask out. that is never mentioned. host: there was a report the other day that mask-wearing has shown decrease in hospitalizations in states that implement mandatory mask-wearing. guest: that's right, and it is not the first study. there is a strong association between wearing masks, mandates of masks, and reductions of hospitalizations of covid-19 weeks later. this makes sense, masks reduce transmission, reduce the number of cases and hospitalizations over a couple of weeks. you have seen inflation models suggested -- influential models suggesting that if we can increase mask-wearing, 95% universal masking, we could save tens of thousands of american lives in the next couple of months. i think the key here for masks,

again, keeping the message simple for the american public, a mask that well fitted, covers the mouth and nose, that has 2-3 layers. actually, he should not be able to wash -- we are talking about cloth-based masks. you shouldn't have to throw them away unless they are surgical masks, for example. but most cloth masks should be washable. you should wash them after use. that is something all of us have the power to do. it we can do just a little bit better on the mask side, we can certainly say lives and make a dent in the pandemic. host: snapshot on the pandemic from this morning's "new york times," their front page. coronavirus cases are down 50% since the highest peak on january 8. some parts of the country are reporting new cases that rate

higher than sock doing the worst peak in october 1 of last year. next is rory in california. go ahead. caller: i got my shots in the last two months, but i had a rather bad experience from the state of california. they did not want -- governor newsom and his people did not want vets getting the shots, they wanted to save them for the indians coming across the border -- for the aliens coming across the border. 4 out of 10 of them have the virus. who comes first? they said, americans do. also, there is not that many icu

bed. you want to put an alien in the bed and kill an american because he could not get to the icu? that is it. thank you and goodbye. host: any comments? guest: i think there is guidance from the federal government in terms of priority groups. every state is setting the order of priority groups. in general, it has to focus first on health care workers, long-term care residents and staff, and then the elderly and frontline and essential workers. again, i do agree that right now demand is outstripping supply, so these are difficult decisions that every governor and state is making. the virus, also an important point, it does not discriminate based on political affiliation, it doesn't discriminate based on immigration status, so i think we need to realize that we are

all safer if we can ensure that as many people are vaccinated around us. host: quick question, as we wrap up, this new report on the pandemic as it stands now, that bipartisan policy center, will you look to future reports on what the federal government can do better to prepare for future pandemics or future versions of this pandemic? guest: that is exactly what we will be looking at, the next phase in the never again report. how do we make sure? unfortunately, it is not a question of if but when. this will unfortunately recur. just looking historically, this will happen. so the next phase will really be, how do we ensure we are better prepared to respond to a pandemic? we will be looking at surveillance systems, our testing systems, at the public

health infrastructure, surge capacity. we will be looking at working with countries around the world. the focus swoon will start to be, once we start to get through this pandemic, how do we have the systems in place and coordination in place so that the next time we can improve the response? host: chief medical adviser of the bipartisan policy center, dr. anand parekh, thanks for being with us this morning. guest: thank you so much. host: next we will be joined by tm garrett. he used to be a kkk leader but is now a motivational speaker and a peace activist. he will join us next to tell us about his story and his journey. ♪ >> tonight on q&a, a look at the

january 6 attack on the u.s capitol, and the government's response with a wall street journal reporter, and northeastern university political science professor max abrams. >> this is an equitably fast-moving investigation that has already resulted in more than 150 arrests. to see the scope of this investigation in terms of hundreds of fbi agents across the country running down suspects and leads literally across the country to be able to pull all this case is together in the 3-4 weeks since the january 6 riot, shows you just how much they have been putting into this and running nonstop, 24-7. already more than 500 subpoenas and search warrants in field offices across the country devoted to, this investigation. >> what the government really needs to do is prevent people from moving from the political extremist camp into the tactical extremism. that needs to find a way in

order to accept people on the right without pushing them into the far-right. i am not actually sure that is the zeitgeist that the united states is going right now in the aftermath of the january 6 attack, where people seem to be getting elevated and credited. they are basically outbidding each other for increasingly extreme behaviors and responses against the right. i think we need to pay attention to that threat and not just the threat coming from the far-right itself. >> the federal response to the attack on the capitol tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span q&a. monday night on "the communicators," ellen pao all, former ceo of reddit, and current ceo of a diversity consulting company. >> we are seeing that change is

hard. changing from a system where people get to work with people that look like them, that they are most comfortable with, that they are used to working with, they don't want to stop that. it doesn't matter what the numbers are, they will find a way to challenge them. it doesn't matter what the arguments are, they will find a way to challenge them. they don't want to, one, force the change, and two, the fourth to admit that the system they were -- be forced to admit that the system they were so successful in was rigged. it was not a system where everybody had a fair chance. it is hard to internalize that. so i think we will continue to see pushback. that is part of the reason why we do need these rules. host: what the communicators monday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. >> "washington journal to new's. host: joining --

>> washington journal" continues. host: joining us is the m garrett. he is a former neo-nazi and kkk leader. good morning. thanks for being on "washington journal" this morning? guest: good morning. thank you for having me. host: before we get to your journey, tell us about your ground, where you grew up. your early years. guest: i am born and raised in germany, born in 1975. very conservative times. it was a lot different. born into a very small town, very conservative and protestant. 500 citizens. my parents had a drinking problem. it was a very dysfunctional family, one of those classic stories you hear from people in the white supremacist movement. a lot of kids grew up like that but not in what is becoming a neo-nazi. so the question is what happened in my life that made me go this way?

it had a lot to do with identity, looking for a purpose, a sense of belonging. i was a bullied, kid, a perfect victim from bullies. it was to birdie when kids start cracking inappropriate jokes -- it was in puberty, when kids started cracking inappropriate jokes. mostly boys doing that. boys wanting to discover their masculinity. it was also the time we started learning about the third reich and the holocaust in school. growing up in germany, i think germany has done a great job making up for the holocaust and making sure it never happens again. but we got presented the topic at the time we were looking for things. all the boys acted up. first it was jokes against immigrants, than against black people. all of a sudden they put the holocaust on the people with i

think at that time, not enough discourse on it. it was anti-semitic what i did, but it was unintentionally anti-semitic because i did not do it for the sake to hate jews because i did not know jews. i didn't know neo nazis existed. i thought they died in 1946. germans are very clear that nazis brought nothing but. host: destruction how old are you, when you are learning about neo nazis? you mentioned that you were a teenager. about how old are you now in terms of this happening? guest: this is when we talk about these jokes i was 12 or 13. i did not know anything about these organizations yet. the other boys went back to

normal at one point. problem is i did not have a normal to go back to. my normal would have been getting pushed in the corner, getting pushed around. the bullied kid. so i ran with those jokes a little longer. the problem is with a certain call-old -- call-out culture, i was put in a box as the nazi kid. nobody was looking in the box to see the human being there, there -- they were just looking at the label. i did not get out at all. the guys that put me in the box where the guys with the swastikas. a kid on the schoolyard gave me a cassette of hate music. music was one of the only things that played an important role in my life. i was hoped. the message resonated with me.

host: at this time, when you think about your family life, where your parents catching on to what was going on with you? guest: my parents divorced when i was born. i happened during the divorce, so i grew up without a father figure. that was also an important part. of a cost control model in your kids life is very important. my mom was fighting -- a constant role model in your kid's life is very important. my mom was fighting her own demons. she tried to figure out but she did not see the full extent of the problem. kids, they act up. you see it a lot on tv, or if you are a little older, you know in the 1970's, he had heavy metal and punk music. kids were acting up. all of a sudden the skinhead

music -- i should point out, the original skinhead that originated in britain in the 1960's were antiracist. they were actually radicalized in the 1970's through the white power movement and the national front. so the music at first was a little soft. it resonated. it was like, hey, they call you a nazi but you are not. this is what i felt. they also made fun about hitler's. in the 1980's, you couldn't do that. it was a too serious topics, you didn't do it. we did it. hey, i am making fun of hitler, i can't be a nazi. but it was like a self-fulfilling prophecy. with the hate music, with every cassette tape, i got more radicalized. the music got more hateful, i got more hateful, until i finally said, who are those groups?

i want to know them. i found a group of skinheads that i joined at the age of 15. host: so you are with this group , and at some point you come to the united states or you become -- and you become part of the kkk. when did that happen? guest: it was actually the other way around. growing into that, age 15, age 17, i joined a far right party in germany and that is where the ideology kicked in. they told me this is not about acting up or using the symbols for provocation. it was just from looking at the age of 15, 16 -- i didn't know about it. but with the party at explaining the ideology, i started picking up nationalism, then i got to know more people in a desk more people, and it became white nationalism. with the internet, i got more connections worldwide so i became -- the white power

movement came in and i became a white supremacist. and this was all in germany. still in germany in 1998. a group of kkk members asked me if i wanted to join the kkk, because that group existed in germany since the 1920's. many people do not know that. host: the kkk existed in germany since the 1920's? guest: kkk groups existed in germany since the 1920's. they were ironically banned under hitler because he wanted to control everything. american gis brought it back to germany in the 1960's. than skinheads brought it back in the 1980's and 1990's. ever since, you have four or five kkk groups living in germany, small, but they are there. one of these groups started following me around because i became a well-known musician in the white supremacist movement, so i was doing concerts every

weekend. they followed me around and asked if i wanted to join. ended up for two years in that group and then a few years later, forming my own group. until 2002, this is when the changing point came in, that i got out of the movement. host: so, let me stop you there and make sure that our viewers know that they are welcome to call in. 202-748-8000. -- 202-748-8001, for republicans, democrats, 202-748-8002. we are talking with tm garrett, founder and ceo of change of memphis, former neo-nazi and kkk member telling us his story. you told us 2002. tell us how long you lived active in this ideology, and what was the moment, the incident that you had that sort of brought you, started to make

you change? tell us about that. guest: change does not come overnight. sometimes for many, many former white supremacists, you have moments where they start thinking. but their life is still in the wrong direction, and you may want to take action. this is a tricky part. these trigger moments, key moments exist in many people's lives better in these extremist groups. it takes a lot of courage actually to leave those groups. ultimately you need the encouragement from the society of their. the big problem we have, who is going to talk to a nazi? who likes nazis? nobody. who likes the kkk? nobody. you have to talk to somebody who you know actually hates you, many people say, probably not. so many people stay longer. it is like an abusive relationship.

it is hard to start over new. i am in this movement for 15 years already. i live it, i brief at. i live in a bubble -- i breathe it. i didn't eat certain foods from southern company is because i thought they were the enemy. i was an anti-semite, holocaust denier, all this nonsense, and i was so caught in that, you know, that i couldn't see anything else. it was a cult. you wake up with it. it is pressure, because you think, the revolution starts at anytime. or your enemy is taking over. or the police are coming in and kicking in your door. we had the group in germany, and when i was recruited, i was, like, i don't want to be in the group, i want to get away from the violence.

they said, the violence is just in hollywood. we know that isn't true, but that is what they told me. they labeled it as a civil rights group for white people. of course, it is not true, but they presented it to me like, we have this powerful enemy who wants honestly which kid doesn't want to be a super hero? give me a cape, that is great. so i could be the super hero and i wanted to do that and we recruited influential people. we have police officers that became a big scandal in germany nationwide later, and of course the government didn't like that. so they started investigating. we didn't do anything criminal but they didn't like the idea of having police officers and such. they put a lot of pressure and convinced me at some point that i will be held responsible if any of my members back then

would commit a violent crime. and here's also the tricky part. committing a violent crime of course we told the members always do not commit a crimet. claiming we are not violent. if it would have been hipies, flower tower, it would not have been necessary do not commit a crime. of course it was a hateful and violent message. we had to tell our members all the time don't do it. therefore you could have seen it wrong but i was so caught in that and i was so much under pressure and i realized i cannot control these members and i don't know what's happening and i will be held responsible. so the i was kind of pushed out by that, it was fear, and i kind of did something safe in that movement. i retired. and this is what i did first. and i was still a full-blown antismite, full blown islam

fowfobe, it was one year after 9/11 and i was struggling in my head with what i was going to do without the group. at the end i decided with my family overseas that we have to move and we moved about 100 miles away. and here comes the interesting part. it was like two weeks before christmas, i was in section 8 all of a sudden because i lost my income, connected tot movement. starting over completely after 15 years back to normal, well that was my normal. it was hard. and the only -- i looked that classified, you can see how long it's been, and i picked up the phone called the number and i could hear the accent it was a turkish immigrant picking tup phone. really? please. but i started lying to myself, well let's take the apt ym. it's just temporarily and we moved in. it was a house and the landlord, he lived on the first level, we lived on the second level. of course we ran into each other, we shared the same

hallway and there was a lot of interaction. and i was convinced again one year after 9/11, i was convinced all muslims are terrorists like spin, i was convinced he was wearing a mask and i would be able to unmask him at some point and expose him as the turkish muslim terrorist that i thought he was. the problem is over what six, seven months i tried so hard and was unsuccessful and many interactions and he always brought the kinds in to me and compassion. and the things -- i couldn't unmask him because he didn't wear a mask. he really was just a nice person. i realized after many months that i was the guy wearing the mask, literally, you know? and that made me really think. i was like saying i was the dude with the bad expectations, with the bad thoughts here. it wasn't him. caller: we want to get to --

host: that's your interaction with the landlord and the apartment in germany. obviously a follower of islam and you are, this is 2002. we want to find out more -- host: about 2003 a t the time. but we have a number of calls waiting for you. so let's get to some of those. our guest is a you've heard him tell his story of being involved in a noo nazi group with the kkk and his struggle with that. let's hear from you first up is linda. caller: i would like to thank the staff. i find that you take a very neutral role and that allows the commentors and the

listeners to engage in a better way than if you as the people working there were clearly showing your colors one way or oods. so thank you for that nuletralt. and to the gentleman whose the guest also thank you to you. i have a couple questions. one was from when you first started to realize that maybe you were on the wrong path to when you felt like you were clear of that pads path, how long a period of time was that for you? host: it was quite a long time. it doesn't happen overnight. i was leery of anybody who would change overnight realize this was wrong, i was wrong for two years, four years, eight years in my case 15 years and all of a sudden i'm a peace activist. this was something i wouldn't buy today if somebody comes to me with that story i would be very leery of that. if it's somebody who tells me i'm still struggling with this topic after one year that's

what i would rather believe because radicalization happens very slowly, it is just like the steady drop, you know, that steady influence that you start to believe, that you only listen to this, only listen to these voices, only listen to this music and you're fading out everything else. and everything else becomes like the conspiracy and the interesting part of conconspiracy seas is that if somebody bleevels in the theory that person will be part of the conspiracy. so whatever belief and you came with the truth even if it was so visible and clear you would just push it to the side. that person wants to deceive you. this is the enemy with a lie. and that was planted in my head for 15 years, slowly building up. and it took many years to get rid of everything, and i started working on certain things. in this case because of the

muslim landlord my islamo phobia. so when that happened with the landlord and he actually unmasked me. he ripped off the mask off my face and i was sitting there, i would say that hate i felt it was like crumbled. what am i going to do with those crumbs? am i going to analyze them or put them back together not love of hatred? because i'm a purist person, i thought let's find out germany has a rich muslim culture. let's find out if the other muslims in germany, if they may be terrorists and my landlord was either good in pretending or was the exception, i don't know. and i decided to just make friends. i went out there and really talked to people in the muslim community and the immigrant community rather than the street gangs that we were under or the people we didn't know. that's what i was listening to.

the secret things they would do in the mosques and prepare. it was all not true, i found out, because i went out and embraced them. i wanted to know first-hand and this helped but it took many, many years, it took that probably a year to be to really get rid of all these stereo types of all these things i believed in. host: linda you're still on the line. do you have another question? caller: yes i would like to ask one more question. relating to the coup on the capitol it seems like many of the people there are believing in stereo tipse that they've been fed which i observe to be many of them to be lies or twisted portions of fact and i've listened to a lot of interviews of people that were part of that march and what they believe in and why they were there. most of them are quoting donald

trump that he lost the election by a bunch of people stealing it. so in the case of those people do you see a path out of it for them since they still adore donald trump and think he should be president? host: thanks for your question, linda. guest: as part of those people feel encouraged by the former president. this is a fact and for some parts it wasn't a president i would have wished we would have back in the day partly. and the interesting fact of that we have here is a lot of people call these groups that were the capitol a groups that were supporting donald trump et cetera as white supremacists, like proud voice and such and such. you have many racists and white supremacists in these groups the same in the q honor movement but not only. there's something else that holds them together and that is ultra nationalism.

and that of course attract as lot of white supremacists because it's exactly what they do, too. that's why it's a little tricky and you see these people who storm the capitol and you have really a wide variety of different people that were there and you try to figure out how do they fit together? because you've got -- i mean one person got arrested, another one had a holocaust t-shirt, a holocaust denier. and you're wondering how is it possible that two people like that are in the same group? but how is it possible that people seem the opposite commit something like this try to overthrow the government here and then how does this work? but the smallest common denominater here is ultral nationalism rather than antisemitism or other things. and of course the question what

they put out or the claim that the election was stolen. this is the key factor that actually brought them together and the smallest common denominater ultra nationalism and the claim the election was stolen. that brings these people together. sometimes they cooperated with muslims, sometimes with that even though we're deniers if you had a jew who denied the holocaust we would incorporate with them too for the day. because the enemy of my enemy is n my friend if it's only that day. on that day for those people this day counted and i don't believe that any of those people went in there thought any longer what would happen tomorrow. they were drive bin these hateful messages, endorse bid certain people especially in the message boards forums, social media, where they were at and were pushed there at the

end encouraged. host: let's get a call from barbara. good morning. caller: good morning i just want to tell mr. garrett that he is doing a fantastic job in this interview he is so incredibly articulate and he is painting a picture of such depsdz and breadth that i just want to encourage him deeply to continue with whatever forium the group change is and we haven't heard about that yet, i know we will, but it brought to mind to me maybe we need to create radicalization anonymous like alcoholics anonymous and narcotics anonymous in order to give another venue of belonging for these people who want to move into. and i'm sure that's what you're thinging about what the tree you're barking up sir i see you nodding. and i just want to just tell you that in people just as presidential campaign he talked

about belonging as the key thing that's missing and it was such a brilliant thing for him to do. because really the first time a politician in a national campaign brought in a psychological domain. this is all about ideaation meaning thinking and language. and speaking to yourself and others. and c-span production team i really want to ask you please i beg you start bringing in the behavioral psychologists. we need to get dialogue between people like tm and people who have understanding psychologically of what goes on with human beings that are radicalized. host: appreciate that and appreciate you leading us into getting some information about what tm is up to with his organization with change that she asked about. guest: when i started change it was 2016 when i started change and living in memphis, african american population of about

70%, and yet a lot of protests what happened after sterling got murdered, et cetera. and a lot of people it was not as bad as it was like last year but there was gap between glack and white that seemed to be growing and i tried to build bridges. when i moved to the u.s. i had the picture of the melting pot that was from hollywood. i thought the black cop and the white cop are best friends they go to each other's houses after work. and then i moved here and it just didn't happen. you have these two different cultures living next to each other and try to build these bridges. when i started telling my story and other people reached out to me i decided i can help people and so i started people help people getting out of extremist environments. and we also have where we cover tattoos for free to give those people a second chance. but now with the whole

political radicalization where normal people, normal conservative yet radicalized this is a complete different dimension because we're talking not about the classic hate group. we're talking about radical people getting radicalized by certain things on line. i'm not judgmental because i have been there. i know how it goes. this is why what you say is exactly what we're trying to do, the dialogue. the secret is watch dross cafeteria, like my friend says. feel encouraged to look him up. host: our viewers can get more about that at change memphis.org. let's hear from loretta in cleveland, ohio. coiveragetsdz good morning. my first question has been answered, his change or met more fass sis but i am more

interested in what he thinks the racist insurrection was on january 5th. because it seems as if there are two big lies being told. the first lie is that america does not belong to white people . and the second lie is that donald trump did not win the 2020 election. host: you've addressed it a little bit. any further comments you want to make on the capitol attack? guest: let me try to answer these i want to chime in real quick. if we ask questions who does america belong to? as a nation of immigrants this is what every white person on this continent is, is an immigrant and therefore it's a country of all immigrants. and of course it belongs to

white people just as it belongs to black people just as it belongs to brown people and muslim people and sikh people and hindu people and jishe people and prution people. it is a nation for people and for immigrants. this is how it was founded. these are the core principles of the country. the second thing you ask i mean we can fight about it all day long but i don't think this is how we can unite this country. how we can unite this country -- this is what we're talking before as well. how do we -- what do we identify as? you know? do we identify as republican and democrat? yes, i believe that the election was stolen no i don't believe the election was stolen, or do i believe that we are all americans we have to heal as a nation so we can go on and beat a dead horse, i know with the vast majority of people who believe that the election was stolen, that keep talking about this one topic that it will not lead us

anywhere. we have to find the humanity in each other again, stop calling each other baby killers and racists because not all republicans are racist, not democrats are not waking up and having a lust for killing babies. these are used by radical forces to get americans into dehumanization. i am from germany originally and germany has seen a past from overpatriotism to nationalism to white nationalism national socialist. leading to genocide. how can a whole population commit that and support genocide, that whole population was not evil, they were not like americans are not evil or whatever. they were lured into that and dehumepization was a big part of that taking humanity away from another.

guest: what brought you to the united states? host: it was to dream a rich uncle in america, american culture played a big role in germany because america pardon my french kicked germany's as in world war ii but helped build up again with core values principles everything. everything that germany represents today is what america made it. and germans appreciated that so that play add big role. music, tv, it was just fascination, that you could make it from a dish washer to a band. so i wanted to li here since i was five and it was a matter of time and in 12er it juzz just the time. there were different thing that is play add role but it was a good time, decided to start a business with a friend a music recording studio and i just moved. host: let's hear from phillip in arizona.

caller: nice to meet you and see what you're talking about. what i'm worried about is everything that you're saying if everyone is saying that a trump supporter is a nazi here in america isn't that going to lead to the disarmment and taking over and kind of putting us in the camps that exterminated everybody to begin with? i'll take my answer off line. thank you. guest: i didn't say that all that the republicans are nazis. this is what the others says. all republicans are nazis, all republicans are racists. that's what i see from the other side all democrats are baby killers, are communists. you hear those from radical forces on both sides that bring the regular american against each other and take the humanity away, because you don't see your neighbor as jeff or jill.

you only ask yourself or you see a trump ter -- these are the thing that is people think now. they don't think any more do these people have children, do they worry about their children the same i do, do they worry about their income, do they love their country the same doy? when i moved here to the u.s. in 12er, guess how many people talked about who they voted for during the last election? zero. it didn't matter. it mattered if you're a good person, if your actions defined you as a good person. not who you voted for. it was completely unimportant. this was something that changed during the last four or five, six years, drastically. host: let me ask you, gives your outside take on the way both democrats and republicans use the media to demonize each other. guest: this is what i'm saying

demonize, taking your humanity away. and if you see this country how it's built up, you have like 30, 35% democrats, 30, 35 republican, 30 independents and the one whose don't fit in then you have the people radicals on each side are only percentages as well. so it's not the majority of americans that have all these radical ideas on both sides. the majority of americans that i meet, that i talk to are from social media that i talk to in person as far as i do because of course the pandemic i'm very careful of course and i take it serious. but these people are normal people. they might be a little further right or left but they're still very moderate and reasonable people that some of those ideas but you can talk to those people. those social media and a lot of the media are just like they echo the radical ideas and it

almost likes like we only have radicals on the left, on the right, and both sides say the other is not good for america. why we have a really amount of americans still in the middle we just don't see them because everybody is busy with facebook, everybody is busy with either cnn or fox or whatever they look at for the left, right, it doesn't matter. everybody is busy with that and really human relationships, even if they don't encourage people to go out and have mass meetings or meetings during the pandemic even if you're on social media rather than go in the gratification with light and people telling you you're right you showed the person you showed the left side, right side. whatever it is. rather have a direct conversation with one person and try to get to know each other and not beat a dead horse

not talk only about topics that will lead nowhere because if you have a liberal and conservative you pick topics like during the mid terms you had the border wall it would lead you nowhere it is a dead horse because you know both sides -- abortion the same thing it will lead nowhere at this point. try to find the commonalities. because i guarantee if somebody is married, why did you choose your spouse? because of the things you agreed on or the things you disagreed on? no you built the smallest bomb you -- bond you built it on commonalities to realize how much you have in common. host: we're going to sharon in minnesota. coiveragetsdz caller: good morning. 45 negative below zero this morning.

but i want to say thank you mr. garrett for telling your story. i'm like seriously in awe with you this morning. i don't know if it's ok for me to say this but i'm extremely proud of you. and most of my questions have been answered but i stuck on the line and i came up with just one other one and our u.s. intelligence agencies have said that the biggest risk to the united states are these hate groups. so me being way up here in minnesota nowhere like what can one simple little person do to make a change? to help with this? because just going into town yesterday we saw lots of people still wearing their trump masks and wearing their stop the steal stuff and it's hard not to be angry but most of us are trying to move forward and just wondering if there's anything that the little people out here can do. and thank you so much. host: thanks. guest: thank you. you said it's so hard not to be

angry. and not classifying -- let's see if i'm unmuted. sometimes it's not that important if you are wrong, you have right. you have political truth, and person truth. what you experience for yourself is a personal truth. somebody who has a trump mask has a different personal truth. so some things are maybe true for you and for them. and fit fu sit down and talk to somebody with a main mission to convert and convince somebody will not work. again back to the smallest basic relationship we can have in a marriage for example. if you try to convince your spouse that you are right and they are wrong, what will it lead to? and for questioning yourself. it will not work. and it's the same thing. and it's hard not to be angry. on the other side.

it's hard not to be angry in general as a human being and we have to differ between when i talk about unconditional love we should love all human beings despite their ideologies. you can dislike the ideology and this is the big difference. the difference between love and liking somebody. if your child comes you still love your child you may not like it at the time but you love your child. you still sit down with your child and try to figure it out. and here is the hard part. loving somebody that you don't like at this moment. and this is the hard part. these people with the trump masks they expect, they hate him. do you really hate them or their ideology? walk over to the cafeteria, sit down ask them let's have a coffee. let's talk about the things in your life not about these dead horses necessarily. you know? that lead us nowhere. just have a conversation often

we need to start showing each other respect. we lost the art of civil discourse. and this is what we need to do. sometimes listen. let the other person talk and also understanding, understanding doesn't mean you agree. somebody can put out an awful ideology that you will be able to understand because they explain where they're coming from and it will be like oh wow i never saw it from that point but i still don't agree but i do understand you. and the other side will all of a sudden have a certain respect for you and will more likely list ton what you have to say than if you yell at each other. yelling has never changed nobody's mind. never. discourse. host: our guest, the founder and ceo of change memphis, he's also a former noo nazi member of the kkk. can you hang with us another ten minutes or so and take a

couple more calls? guest: absolutely. host: let's go to terry in atlanta, georgia. caller: good morning. i called about a month ago actually it was right before we had our special election here in georgia and i don't know if you remember i was complaining about the ads ale of the negative ads and being happy when we get past that. and low and behold look at what's happened in a month. the very next day we have our special election and there's nothing hardly about that on the news because everyone's taking about the people who stormed the capitol. well, i think this whole stop the steal would go away if one man would just admit that he lost the election. if he admits that he lost the election fairly and squarely i

think that would take care of a lot of this. but mr. garrett i don't know how much you experienced real racism here in america. it does exist. i will tell you that. it has for 400 years. and i have to disagree with you that the founders had in mind that everyone was equal. if you look at the document that's written you get that idea but then you look at other amendments to it over the years, why do we have to pass amendments to say people can vote? why do we have to pass amendments to say people can go to any school they choose or ride on a bus? why do you have to pass amendments for that if everything is fair and square? people who call in and say we're tired of being called racists stop acting like racists and if you're tired of being called racists think about the people who have to deal with racism on a daily basis from the time they're children. i'm old enough to remember

segregation and i'm old enough to remember the naacp being called the communist of the time so now we have these radical groups people are saying they're communists. go back through the history of america. we have good people on every level and every race and we have people who want to think that they are superior because they have a certain privilege that they are white. that is not the american that we aspire to be and that is not the america that we need to be and we want to be. host: good to hear from you. a couple other callers. look forward from hearing from you again. do you want to respond? guest: absolutely. i didn't say before that the nation was founded on the ideal of equality. i said it was founded as a nation of imzpwrants. of course the founding fathers were talking about mostly white

immigrants because it was europeans coming here and we know the rest of the history and we know why this country needed the amendments and yes europe and colonies were based on white supremacy at the time. twofe admit that as white people. it is what it is. the question we have here we live in a country, white countries that are based on this mostly that was built on the back of nonwhite people and this is what it is. of course we've been fitted from that. white people benefit from that. it is hard to admit it again my background from germany i bring in a different perspective like who wants to admit that in germany for example that grandparents may have been involved in the holocaust? this is something hard and painful to do to admit this. as a white person in america it is sometimes hard for people especially like in the south

that my forefather has done something awful. you're talking about your granddad, your grand mom. this is a painful thing to do and this is where we just have all to be a little bit human to each other and not beat each other and say ok you're not responsible for what happened, people were -- don't feel guilty for being white don't feel ashamed because white people were born with white privilege or not it sticks on them. it is what it is. but rather than make people feel guilty and ashamed and make them responsible for things that happened tell people you have a responsibility for the future if you don't make it better, and be the america we want it to be. and like you said, this is not the america we want it to be yet and of course it wasn't founded as this. i think we're on a good way and if we all stay on this track, seeing through humanity this is a good way already. and we have to keep fighting for racial equality. this is what it is.

you named the naacp. i'm active because i think this is important. i've been called out for being a racist against white people which i don't understand. no i don't hate white people. i don't hate anybody. i love everybody. and this is just something -- unconditional love. host: a question for you on twitter. similar? guest: a lot of antisemitism. what drove antisemitism in europe and in america in the early 20 sdz century was propaganda that came out from russia. i don't want to name the publicication on national television, i don't want to do that, encourage people to reach that and get the wrong idea. but they put the idea out that

jews want to take over the world and they're responsible for everything. germany just came out of a war where they had an election coming up that the own government betrayed them. and the peace of versi that you had were betrayed and things taken, it's similar to the election and saying the election was stolen. it was similar in the 20s and of course it was fodder for far right groups popping up. and you had the counter part. you had a big communist movement and socialist movement that were feeding each other for a long time before the nazis took over. and this is what happened in germany but it was also in the media and people felt like they had to take one of these sides. and they felt like they have only one of these two radical sides to pick from. and a lot of people didn't want to do that they wanted to stay mod crat but they didn't have a choice.

we need to make sure people know that today especially here in america yes you do have a choice you do not have to pick the far right or the far left. you can but you don't have to. and this is the nice thing if you have a choice. you can do whatever you want and you can just choose humanity. host: let's see if we can get a couple more calls. barbara in maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for having me on. i am a brarblee female and -- bye rarblee female and i work in law enforcement and i have done a lot of research related to holocaust as well as african american american history and also the history. i have learned that by watching the black and white movies of -- not real movies but actual documentries of what happened in germany with the holocaust it helped me grow as a person.

and i did that on my own. it was not taught in school. and nor was it taught in college. but my question to your person is what if you had the platform to talk with biden and kamala harris, what information would you provide to them in order for us as americans to stop this huge divide? because if we don't stop the huge divide we will end up like germany, like the holocaust, we will end up like a lot of these other countries that dehumanize the human like they did with the jews where they cut off their hair. they were basically had no value back then.

host: ok. guest: if i would have the platform i would encourage them as i would encourage everybody on each side humanize each other, bring that message out. and the problem is if biden says we have to move forward in unity and advice trump voters to join him and trump voters say well you didn't want that four years ago and now we don't want that, that's like a little bit like the child in the sand box. well you stole my stuff i don't want to play with you either. it's a vortex that we can't get out of until both sides say we need to stop this. and we need everybody in this country doing that and if only biden is saying that and other people don't chime in yes a lot of democrats too that say no we don't want you. and if you have people from the far right who started to turn you will hear it was too long too late. well, i must say it's never too late, it's never too long.

every little step in the right direction should be welcomed even if a white supremacist changes just a little bit, welcome it, tell them you welcome it, encourage the change rather than fight the change because otherwise we push them exactly where they were maybe even further. host: how many people like you have you met that have been former nationalist neo nazi or former kkk member or supremacist member? guest: thousands, hundreds. there's a whole network of former, google former neo nazi, former white supremacist. formers. you will find a majority i think the big group of people and organization that is do a great job helping deradicalize people that want to get out with great programs. there's a lot of them out there. you can have discourse with not only with me, so i'm only one little wheel in a big machine that i'm just using my

resources sometimes to collaborate with others if i don't is the right resource. that's a lot of them. often we just don't see them. people disengage sometimes, get out of a hate group, get out of a conspiracy theory and just don't know where to go because it is not feature -- people just don't know. that's not awareness of these things. those groups are there, you can reach out and also get the psychological help and get into deradicalization. host: last call. caller: good morning. mr. garrett, i really appreciate you appearing on the program this morning. my question to you, growing up in germany i don't understand hile. you could not have recognized the fact that your country brought us into a world war

because of a radical one radical and a group of radicals. and then you seem to have blamed it on media and you are blaming it on the radicals here in the america on media. everyone has a responsibility to think, think for themselves. i grew up in southeastern united states and i saw bigotry first-hand growing up. and we had the history of slavery which i've never been able to wrap my brain around. host: i'll let you go there and you want to respond to her question or her comment rather. guest: first, when i started and i told the story really inappropriate jokes, i knew i was fullly aware that the nazis

were the bad guys. i was fullly aware and i was not even cherishing it. it was inappropriate stuff. i was classified as a nazi at the time when i wasn't one. i was put in a box, the lid was closed put label nazi kid on it and i lived in there and radicalized myself and it also, and this is we need to start to think for ourselves, this is true. but if you just get in touch with the wrong people that feed you with the wrong ideas then you start thinking about these wrong ideas. and over the time you start believing these things because this is the only thing you see, this is the only thing you hear, and the truth becomes the truth for you. their truth. and this is the tricky part. if we live in boxes if we can't break out. and this is also let's try to wrap this up. i don't blame it just on the

media. the media is just one part. but after echos certain messages from one side, from the left, from the right, whatever depend wrg that media stands. anyway, whatever a community -- and i'm working with the muslim community, working with the black community, working with the jewish community. i'm a regular synagogue and so on, i'm working with people in los angeles a lot. and whenever these minority groups feel under attack and everybody feels helpless, when something happens like sterling, floyd, mu zealnd church christ all these things and the communities under attack everybody feels helpless they don't know what to do and i say look also at smaller incidents and one that happened here around memphis when a kid wrote a racial slur on a school table it was the n word and everybody was to kick the kid

out of school, expel them from school. rick him out. nobody looked at this kid as a human being any more just as a racist. we don't even know the kid picked up the kid was radicalized because nobody wanteded to know anybody more. and here's the power we have. no matter how disempowered we feel helpless we all as a human community including the minority communities have a great power looking in those boxes where these people are at these certain points in their lives, opening them, look at the human being and we can decide if we pull them up put them back on the right track with dialogue, accept them as a human being. not ideology. or do we leave them in the boxes and the guys with the white hoods pull them out or the believers or whatever it is. so we have the choice what happens to those people in the boxes. this is why we can take action.

walk across the calf tiera, embrace other that is may think different than you, look different, pray different, love different, and most importantly vote different than you. embrace them, see them as human beings. host: tm garrett the founder and ceo change memphis. it has been a pleasure to have you with us. thanks for being here. guest: thank you so much. thank you for having me here. host: we'll open our phones to hear from you on the causes behind domestic terrorism, the lines for republicans and democrats are on your screen.

>> the trial against president trump begins tuesday. watch our live coverage of the senate impeachment trial. or listen live on the free c-span radio app. if you miss any part of the proceedings watch any time on demand at c-span.org/impeachment. >> with the biden administration leading the response on the pandemic wash search c-span's coverage of news conferences as well as remarks from members of congress. use the interactive gallery of map. >> "washington journal" continues. >> asking you your thoughts on the causes behind domestic

terrorism. the lines on the screen. the associated press reporting canada designates proud boys as terrorist entity, their headline in ap. writing about that the "new york times" on the plan on the attack on the u.s. capitol in january, this is the headline in the "new york times."

let's get to your calls and comments. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to talk about that previous caller that was -- not the previous caller, the previous guest was awesome i wish he would write a book. according to his views iffs very optimistic and i've always watched the show and you had probably one of the greatest guests i've seen in a long time. congrats. about the topic, the proud boys and so on. we're killing each other left and right, pun intend of course. why are we attacking each other? i can't understand it. we've never talked about politics as much as we have lately and all this is just one

shy of attacking the other. i hope it stops soon. i don't see it happening. and i wish i had asked that to the previous guest but i'll take my comment u or answer off. host: appreciate you calling in. caller: i just kind of wonder why you even ask this question. i punched up the adl website that says here murderer and extremism in the united states in 2020 killed at least 17 people in the united states. it representing the lowest yearly total in statistics since 2004. so the guy from adl totally gave you a false impression. and i think you guys ought to think about what it is you're asking people to comment on when you say it's a rise in

domestic terrorism. that's obviously wrong. host: new jersey. the story this morning about west virginia senator joe manchinen democratic senator joe manchin who was influential in shaping helping shape some of the covid package the democratic version of john mccain is their piece. they write 6

we'll show you some of the whip counts so far potential whip count on the impeachment trial which starts tuesday. our live coverage is always over on c-span 2. this is gilbert, birmingham, alabama. go ahead. caller: good morning. thanks for this very important topic. as i listened to the first hour discussion two african americans really made the point. one was the fellow from maryland -- the female from

maryland and the black mayor that was from washington. what we have here is a classic case of give me liberty or give me death. for too long we have failed to identify the mo of the people who are doing it. there is no one in this country since what happened in -- on the 6 ds would say that the mo of those people was majority caucasian. now that is the exception to the rule. but the bottom line is it's like malcolm x says chickens have come home to roost in america. and we can quit trying to fool ourselves that we want to address domestic terrorism that's been going on for 400 years. and made the point about the 16th point bombing and what happened to george floyd. caucasians have a problem with liberty. the reason why if black people had done what was done up there on the 6th we would have been

shot down like dogs is because we don't have the liberty or privilege that caucasians have in this society and what has happened is that liberty has run ah muck and that's an example is what happened on january 6 in washington, d.c. you've got too much liberty. host: royal oak, michigan. robert. caller: the cause for rise in domestic terrorism. well, it's been ongoing for a long time. it has a lot to do with the gentleman before talking about systemic racism. that has a lot to do but more so is the economic clash and new system that's going on right now. there are disproportionately amounts of people who are under educated for technology and

that's number rising and that proportion is has a white male component to it. definitely minorities and african americans definitely are disproportionately lack of technical skills. but what i'm getting to is the main reason for domestic terrorism is that what i call the new world versus the old world. we all know the old world we can almost see it with biden's quick notes that he wrote about opening letting lbgt people in the military, things like that, of women's rights, the whole system on the whole thing. what i'm trying to say is the biggest clash is this new ideas versus the old ideas and that's

this is. host: you also mentioned your first comments you said it was an economic reaction. do you think that people both of all races really are feeling that some of the rise in domestic violence, terrorism, whatever you want to call it is because of the economic situation in the country affecting obviously affecting minority communities more but affecting a broader swath of americans than it ever has before? caller: yes. you carke triesed it perfectly. and what's happening is it's white males majority still, it's disenfranchised. they can't work 50 hours a week and get their boat and cottage any more, just with their hands and skilled labor. you can't get that any more and that's the conflict. and they're reaching and pointing fingers and people directing them towards someone

crossing the borders this that. it's not that. it's just that they're not prepared. host: to little rock, arkansas. ne alan. caller: just wanted to make a couple of points. to get some civility here. but one is i think c-span has an absolute obligation here that you're failing on to stop, stop this allowing this mass condemnation of one side or the other. and that's what's happening here. there is millions of people are being condemned just like some callers already this morning. it's them all they all this group or the other group whichever side it is. just this vast condemnation and

assigning evil to such masses of people is wrong. and that needs to be stopped. we can accept specific examples fine. and it's your job to point out ok give the specific examples. and today you focused on one side of this domestic terrorism but there's the domestic terrorism from the other side that has been burning and looting and that should be discussed. but i just wanted to make this one point about the effect of this riot which is very suspicious how that occurred and has a lot of look at what the charlottesville riot had where they pulled the police back and knowing this conflict was going to happen. but the effect was to stop this discussion of the election which would have resolved this issue. but that was stopped and no one's been discussing that.

and the voter fraud thing that people keep talking about which gets lost in all of this was the fact that the swing state election rules were changed without the state legislatures being involved. and that was the requirement. and so it was a fiat kind of change that people are upset about that they feel like their votes were manipulated, not the ballot counting. that's subterfuge. host: the trial of former president trump 1:00 p.m. the whip count so far the new york city times view on this their tally of where they think senators are on votes, where each senator stands. so far in their count support combg peachment 4 undecided 28, no 36 and in their survey so far only two senators not responding. let's see if we get a call here from ronald in myrtle beach, south carolina.

caller: good evening. i just have a question for maybe the host or c-span. when you have these guests folks come on and they give like the guy from the kkk and he's out there doing thins, making a name for himself, he's not a mother teresa, not a jimmy carter going out building homes. sometimes do you all check to see if they have a 501 set up? where they're making money off their name. and they might be contributing back to other organizations that are where they come from. sort of a reverse psychology. they're using the money not for setting up for anti-kko or clan or stuff like that. do you all have any back-check on status on 501? host: as far as we know change memphis is a nonprofit

organization. one more call here. frederick in florida democratic's line. welcome. caller: thank you. i'm a vietnam veteran and i served in germany and what i noticed was when i was serving i'm a decorated soldier urks i wenti went to segregated school, and i was drafted into the military. i served my country. my point is i don't see no h itler statues. it just opened my eyes. the first thing i noticed when i got back -- all these confederate flags. why -- you know, i just want to be noticed as a human being. people just need to stop being colorblind. i just want to be noticed as a human being. i served my country. but right now, it don't seem like that.

people look at me right now as being a black man. host: thank you for your call and for your service. that will do it for this morning's program on "washington journal." we are here at 7:00 a.m. every day. we hope you are tomorrow. enjoy the rest of your weekend. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> you're watching c-span, your unfiltered view of government. c-span was created by america's cable television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these television companies, who provide c-span to viewers as a public service.

tonight on "q&a," a look at the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol and the response with aruna viswantha and max abrahms. >> this is an incredibly fast-moving investigation with already over 50 arrests. to see the scope of the investigation with hundreds of fbi agents across the country running down suspects and leads across the country, to be able to pull all of these cases together in the three to four weeks it has been since that january 6 riots just shows you how much they have been putting into this, running nonstop, 24/7 with over 500 subpoenas and search warrants and field offices acss