>> today's white house briefing expected to start soon.

host: you spent time looking at the issues with the commerce department. guest: i was a director of educational technology and that it was deputy policy director at the u.s. department of commerce. that is when president bush began the efforts to develop the first pandemic preparedness strategy. i was part of a working group that worked on that in terms of what would be needed across the country in the supply chain and everything we are experiencing now from shelter-in-place orders to what do we do about schools to issues around masks.

i've had different roles in the white house and philanthropy as well. host: you are a piece about the topic of opening schools. and for those who haven't read it, what is the gist of it? guest: there is attention right now which is the accumulating body of science put into ways we can safely reopen schools. that is a body of science we did not have the luxury of this time last year. part of the pandemic preparedness plan is that you close schools early because kids tend to be spreaders. we all know that from influenza. so you closed schools to help flatten the curve we were

experiencing this time last year. what we have learned in the months since then is the coronavirus is not playing out in the exact same way that respiratory viruses are. the effectiveness of school closures is not nearly as effective as we had initially thought. we are seeing with schools reopening in europe and schools reopening in the united states it is possible to start bringing kids into the classroom with various types of safety players of protective measures. we are seeing in many of the largest urban centers, whether chicago or san francisco that the teachers keep moving the goal post in terms of what they declare to be safe or reopening. what it is doing is giving kids out of the classroom for almost a year and has incredible consequences for kids as they look at a lifetime of

consequences. so there is tension. host: you talked about the chicago schools saying they reached a deal. it does quote that the president of the union says let me be clear that chicago public schools couldn't delay reopening to ramp up vaccinations and preparations is a disgrace. is that as -- is that an unreasonable request? guest: it does not adhere to the science. even president biden's cdc director says you do not need to vaccinate teachers to bring them back into the classroom. you need players of protection. first there is so critically important and that is masks. we know the cdc reaffirmed that yesterday. we know keeping kids three feet to six feet apart is important.

keeping air circulation in the buildings is super important. other important measures are vaccinations as well as a systematic testing. we are doing a testing regiment where kids are getting tested and you are quarantining kids test positive. the best example is in chicago that while all of these negotiations have been going on, the largest catholic school system in the country has been reopened since september and has had fewer cases of kids catching covid than the closed public school system. the catholic school system was doing this with not elaborate and very expensive measures but measures we are now well-known and well established and verified, masking, keeping kids distanced, increasing ventilation in the classroom and

making sure there is hygiene. it is not that the vaccinations are unreasonable. teachers to get vaccinated very quickly, but that is an additional layer of protection. we can get teachers back in the classroom with these other protocols. host: our guest john bailey will be with us until 9:00. if you want to ask questions about schools reopening. the numbers are (202) 748-8000 four educators. -- for educators. mr. bailey, there is reporting in usa today and other news about the president's initiative on that same that the president's efforts to reopen public schools has changed a bit. the white house secretary said the president's goal is 50% of schools have some in person

teaching and not necessarily for quite a 100 of the presidency. what do you think of the changed? guest: it is a pretty significant change. we heard throughout the late fall and for most of january that there was going to be a very aggressive and needed urgent call to reopen schools in the first 100 days. as of this day, the criteria for reopening, the bar is so much lower that it has already been met. we know right now from a number of different websites tracking schools that 60% of kids are doing exactly the type of reopening school that president biden is describing. what we need is not the lower part but a higher bar, because there is an urgency. there is a pandemic outside of the coronavirus pandemic and it

is the learning loss happening with kids and a pandemic in the health challenges they are facing all as a result of not being in school. we will not see the incredible harms we are inflicting on kids for several years from now. so the urgency of getting kids back into the last room, safely, we can do it. we have lots of lessons in place that we can learn from over in europe. some have been open since september and there is no reason we can't be doing more right now and setting a higher bar. host: you highlight wisconsin. why do they stand out? guest: they have become a subject of debate in part because the cdc released a study looking at 14 schools in the state that had used these protective measures.

they had masks, they were social distancing the kids. they kept them in small groups and did all types of different measures. the cdc researchers tracked them and found out they were not spreading the virus, either to themselves or to adults, the teachers, and that is a good thing. it has created tension because the administration is trying to sell that in order to reopen schools we need the recovery act to safely make sure the protocols that the kids in wisconsin at our in place. these were not expensive protocols. they are not the wealthiest schools in the country. there was a hundred $50,000 grant from a private -- there was a $150,000 grant and it is

not a lot. there have been close to 60 billion dollars for all the schools for different protective measures. the cdc study is one of the latest studies on top of a collective body of research that is showing how to safely get kids back in school. host: let me show you the clip about talking about the wisconsin study and saying it is not representative of what she is seeing. we will get your thoughts when she is done. [video clip] >> they have said that the evidence from fall has been reassuring. there is little evidence at school contribute meaningfully to increase community transmission. becky pringle, are masks not enough? is that what you are saying? >> masks are not enough.

they base that on a study that was in wisconsin and what they found was what you said but schools that reopen had a sizable donation from a private foundation to provide the additional resources so that all the students and educators had masks. they had a small class sizes so they could socially distance. they had testing available. they had people to do the tracing. and they were working with educators to think about how they can bring those students back safely. with the cdc said and everyone else has said is that we have to have all of those measures in place. all of them, not one of them. it is not just masks him about ventilation systems, washing hands, being able to clean surfaces. making sure we have tests

available to quickly identify those who are infected with covid-19 and isolate them as quickly as possible. host: mr. bailey, your response. guest: i think it is disappointing to explain away the science. even if you want to ignore this one a study, there are hundreds of others that say the same thing. there is a duke study looking at school systems in north carolina. i don't disagree, you need these protective measures, masks, social distancing. these are measures that have been in place and recommended from the cdc since last year. this is not new. duke researchers looked at using these measures in north carolina and very little spread between students and students and teachers and that it was safe. you can dismiss the wisconsin study because it was a limited

set and rural. but if you look at the study in urban chicago, the same thing. in all the instances, another layer of protection but it is not a fundamental layer you need in order to bring kids back here all kids are able to bring kids back with the existing players of protection in place. there is over $50 billion that congress has provided schools to accommodate the costs for masks and social distancing kids inside the classrooms as well. host: jesse in albuquerque, new mexico. you are on with our guest. guest: thank you so much. good morning. i just wanted to say i have to disagree the guest about the teachers unions moving the

goalpost, because in new mexico, the new mexico public education department actually just moved the goalpost very oddly. they first had a rule that we had to be in green for the county in order for schools to go back and now last week at the state of the state address she totally flipped that and now says next week we might go back to school. now all of the districts and unions are just try to figure out what is going on. there was supposed to be a teacher vaccination thing that ended up getting canceled and i don't want to get into the mess of politics with that. but just like our governor said, when death is too many. so risking all these kids and teachers go back to school, when death is too many and one sick this is too many. i support it and i am a teacher,

but that is what the governor said. i am just trying to follow the rules. host: mr. bailey, go ahead. guest: appreciation and respect for the teacher and for the situation he is describing. a lot of teachers are feeling like a yo-yo and a lot of that is coming back to what the caller is describing in terms of what trying to assess what is the right community level of spread. there has been a vigorous debate. there has not been as helpful guidance coming from the federal government. as a result, governors have been left trying to read the research and look at what other governors are doing and trying to figure out what is the right level above the spread that is so high it is not safe to bring kids and

teachers back in the classroom. that guidance has been changing. i know it is incredibly frustrating for teachers and parents and students as well. we are all hoping as part of the fighting administration that we are getting clear guidance on what kinds of school models there should be. it gives colors certain thule -- certainty on how to plan. host: let's go to the next caller. caller: what frustrates me is governor cuomo from new york says follow the signs, follow the science -- follow the science, follow the science. here you have the head of the cdc saying, it is safe to go back to school. then you say dr. fauci says the

best place for kids is in school. what i don't understand is what are they catholic schools and charter schools, they have been in school since september that the public schools don't understand nationally. it is working. the teacher from new mexico where one student comes down with this is enough. while it is going to happen. are we going to wait until this thing is totally over? host: bob, thank you. guest: it is a great point. what we are seeing is the administration following the science. a collective body, we will have a paper coming out shortly that combines studies. it is a small fraction of the studies that have been done that examines the issue about what are the risks to kids.

and what is the risks to teachers and one of the protective measures needed in place. all those collectively point to using the layer of protection. there is so much fear mongering that happened in the fall and there are parents worried about sending their kids back in teachers worried about their risks. i think this is not a crisis of science. it is a crisis of trust and we will have to do more to earn the trust of teachers and parents. the way to do that is by pointing to some of the school systems that have been open and serving kids to not seeing lives put at risk. we need to be telling the stories more and pointing people to those examples as well as to the very dark collective body of evidence that suggests there is a path forward. host: connecticut is next.

this is lewis for our guest. caller: if you are going to try to compare the g -- the different geographic areas. rural is less populated. the suburbs, or likely the schools are up-to-date and not living in crowded conditions. if you look at who got hit the hardest, it was basically blacks, latinos, and native americans. they got more crowding, bad schools and bad ventilation and bad health care. so those relations rate there are the ones that were mostly affected. if you go to a private school, more than likely it is well-funded, better ventilated. it is less populated. you have to do the math look at the numbers. host: thank you. guest: it is a great point in the sense of we should be making

policy that applies to all schools. that should all reflect come all the different types of conditions and there are reasons some schools should still remain close because they are not able to adequately ventilated for circulation or because they don't have the classroom space in order to keep the kids socially distanced, or because the community spread is high in their community. i don't disagree with that, but what we need is a better framework to help evaluate those risks and mitigate those risks. i think with the cdc's outline is these measures can help and it means there are some teachers and students who should not be coming back to the classroom because they have underlying health condition or risk profiles that put them more at risk for not catching covid of

potentially passing away from covid. i can imagine all sorts of ways that we create accommodations for teachers who are older, about the age of 65 orchids and students -- 65 or kids and students and teachers and they should absolutely be accommodated and stay-at-home. we do not have to bring all students back, but those juggling with remote learning. keeping them socially distanced and give the time for teachers to get vaccinated. host: a teacher, hello. caller: we are transitioning to an percent learning. as a teacher, i have already