to serve as assistant hhs secretary. that is live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. there are several events streaming live today on our website. at 9:30 a.m. eastern, defense department officials testify in front of the senate armed services committee about the pentagon's covid-19 response. at 10:00, katherine tai has her confirmation to be u.s. trade representative. a luck a.m., improving security at the capitol following last month's attack. you will find that lie that -- that live at c-span.org. coming up on "washington journal ," republican representative byron donalds of florida talks about his response abilities as a freshman in the congress. then come a dog coalition

co-chair tom o'halloran talks about congressional efforts to pass another covid-19 relief bill. later, government executive senior correspondent eric katz joins us to discuss yesterday's oversight hearing on the u.s. postal service. ♪ host: good morning, everyone. we're going to begin with the minimum wage as house and senate democrats it $15 per hour. if you support democratic efforts, dial-in it (202) 748-8000. if you are opposed to the idea, (202) 748-8001. if you are earning a minimum wage, call-in at (202) 748-8002. business owners, your line this morning is (202) 748-8003. also, go to twitter at c-span wj and put the handle in there in

your tweets and post your comments on facebook.com/c-span. let's begin with increasing the minimum wage. bernie sanders, independent of vermont is on jimmy tuesday night and this is what he had to say. [video clip] >> how long have you been trying to get the minimum wage raised federal early? >> -- federally? flex for many years. i call for $15 per hour minimum wage and at that point not a lot of people supported it. today the last poll that i saw had 61% of the american people and support. >> i'm surprised it's not higher, actually. i really am. i think back to when i was in high school and making minimum wage working at a clothing store and a pizza place and it was $3.35 back then and i was looking through some of the states, it's $7.25. in 2021 people are making 7.25

per hour. these are not high school students, these are adults. people with families. >> that's an important point to make. there's a lot of misconceptions about that. i've been all over this country and i honest to god can recall talking to working moms, raising children, trying to get by on $10 per hour, you can't do it. a lot of people are working for even less. these are adults. they've got to pay rent. they need to have the basic necessities of life. feed their kids. one of the great crises we are facing is that so many of our people in the richest country in the history of the world are literally struggling to put food on the table and we've got to change that. by the way, this is over four years. it's not a radical idea. $15 per hour, you are not getting rich and at least you have a shot to live with a minimum of dignity and you don't have that wall of distress and

pressure on you trying to survive on starvation wages. host: senator sanders is holding a hearing today at 10 a.m. eastern time on wages in this country and you can watch it on our website, c-span.org. on the panel he has experts on wages and he is testifying -- he has testimony from walmart as well. take a look at the history of this, from the department of labor, 1980 it was $3.10 and you can see how it was written slowly over the years. the last time the federal minimum wage was raised. republicans are opposed to the idea, listen to their arguments. john barrasso on tuesday. [video clip]

>> let's look at the things the seven -- senate democrats support. it's a mandate from washington, d.c. to double the minimum wage. nothing to do with coronavirus. the budget office took a look at this and asked what the impact would be be on the economy and said that 1.4 million people right now would lose their jobs if the federal government came in with a mandate to double the minimum wage. it's not a stimulus. according to one report, the new mandate would also raise the costs of child care by about 21%. how's that going to work for hard-working families trying to get back to work with coronavirus and need daycare for their children? with schools closed in so many locations across the country, that's the last thing working families need. an increase in the costs of providing care for their children.

host: he cites the budget office analysis of raising the minimum wage. from their report they write "in an average week in 2025, the year when the minimum wage would reach $15 per hour, 17 million workers whose wages would otherwise be below $15 per hour would be directly affected and many of the workers whose wages would otherwise be slightly above that would also be affected. at that time the effect would include the following, as the senator said. employment would be reduced by 4.9% according to the average estimate and the number of people in poverty would be reduced by .9 million. your turn to weigh in on this debate. should the federal minimum wage be raised to $15 per hour? cindy, pennsylvania, you say yes.

caller: i actually misstated. i'm not for the raising of the minimum wage. i apologize for that. i just believe that minimum wage should be looked at more as an entry-level situation. there are lots of opportunities for people to go to school, get knowledge to do better in life. i myself never graduated high school. yet i have managed to gain knowledge through experience starting in an entry-level position. i've made a decent life for myself. i just don't think it's good for the economy. eventually instead of four dollars per gallon for milk we will be paying $10 per gallon for milk. at some point the price of goods will go up to compensate for the wages being higher. host: sean, new york, your

thoughts? you oppose it as well? caller: i don't know if i oppose it, but i do realize that with the price of everything even going up or going down, in my opinion if it goes down, the price of everything should help people if the price of goods and services go down. if you are paying people a $15 minimum wage, the price of everything needs to go down and if inflation is going to continue to go up, there's no way that we can have that minimum wage. business owners are going to also put people to part-time or not hire people as much and they are just going to take on the challenges by themselves. host: let me read the lines again. if you are in support of raising the minimum wage, your line is (202) 748-8000.

if you are opposed to the idea, (202) 748-8001. if you are earning minimum wage or less, we want to know from you what would a raise in your hourly wage do for you? how would it help? (202) 748-8002 is your line. if you are a business owner, what impact would this have on you? (202) 748-8003. let's go to james and hamilton, ohio. you say yes. good morning. caller: i absolutely say yes. i see hungry children in my neighborhood when both parents are working. these people need to come up with money to support the people in this country. host: all right. whether or not the minimum wage increase would be included in this covid-19 relief package moving through the house this week and expected in the senate next week, that's up in the air.

why? the senate parliamentarians have to rule on whether or not it does or does not violate the so call -- so-called byrd rule. the wall street journal has a question answer about this process. how does a parliamentarian decide which provisions are allowed under this reconciliation process? to qualify for fast-track procedures, measures have to be directly tied to the budget. specifically they need to have a meaningful fiscal impact that can't be merely incidental to the policy proposal. if not it can be challenged under the robert byrd rule. it also prevents any provision of the bill from adding to the deficit beyond the bill possible window unless lawmakers find a way to offset that to the committee. in this case several provisions

could be on the chopping block to parliamentarians, including the mandate that businesses provide paid sick leave, arguing that budgetary impacts are secondary. democrats in the house and the senate have decided to push this through using reconciliation because they don't expect republicans -- they have said they won't vote for this 1.9 trillion dollar economic aid package. now, that means that senator joe mansion, a moderate democrat from west virginia can flex his muscles in a 50-50 senate. that's the headline in "the hill" newspaper. they noted that senator manchin appears to have derailed the biden nominee to lead the budget office, neera tanden to vote against her.

she has jeopardized the plan to announce that he opposed such an increase and suggested $11 per hour and indexing it to inflation. we expect that that is what he will push for if the parliamentarian rules are allowed. in that article here is a quote from ross baker, professor of political science at wreckers. he says that he has spoken to harry reid about joe mansion and that joe mansion was always a pain in the neck, professor baker served as a fellow with harry reid and that mansion is in an awkward position, democrat from a state that bactrim heavily. carrying west virginia with 69% in 2020. he gained a larger percentage of the vote only in wyoming, 70%. the senator is not up for

reelection until 2024 and host: so, the role that senator manchin is playing is a pivotal one. from cnn, there's a piece on their website by anywhere -- annie grayer, health professional saying they won't support the final covid relief bill if they pare back the $15 minimum wage or strip it out host: from the cnn reporting, here's a quote from congresswoman cortez, "i think it depends on the reason for the lack of inclusion. if $15 per hour is not in the

package because of parliamentary reasons, that's one reason and i would be open to voting for the package. but if they take it out or change it fundamentally and it is removed for political reasons, that is where i think not just myself but a substantial amount of progressives are in a difficult spot. that is the politics on capitol hill. what do you think about the policy? should it be raised? or dell, you say yes? caller: yes, i think it should be raised. $7.50 per hour is disgraceful. second, he has not asked for all wages to be raised to $15 per hour. he's asking for the federal wages to be raised to $15 per hour. i wish people would get that straight. first of all, the republicans when they were in office, they

did whatever they wanted to get ceos and other people raises and money that they had. now they have the nerve to tell us that we can't get money from the presidential relief package? it's sad. the taxes are not paid by the ritual were the ceos anymore. they are from the republicans who have gotten breaks where they can do all these things where they don't have to pay taxes. the tax money is coming from the normal people and it's about time that something was done for us. host: john, maryland, you say yes as well? caller: it's a simple fact that elderly people on social security are not making it and have been forced to get part-time jobs.

i think that $15 per hour would help them out a lot. i don't think that these companies have to make us pay for that. mcdonald's, what's that, a $1 billion per year industry? this could be done without making us pay for it. that's all i got. host: mike, ohio, you are a business owner. what do you pay your workers? what impact would this have? caller: i'm a small business owner, self employed and the person is -- the employee's me but the subject we should be discussing is wage limits. $12 million per year, do you know anybody who can't live on $1 million per month? then you look at jamie diamond. 32 million dollars. let's say a $12 million late minute -- wage limit.

it could go towards the $15 per hour wage hike. plus another thing. if they would take the caps off the social security of what, like $110 million per year, these rich guys don't have to pay more than that. if they take the cap off, that would probably cure the problem of social security. instead of discussing minimum wage, i think we should be discussing maximum wage. thank you. host: linda, fort myers, what do you say? caller: high, greta, thank you for taking my call. i definitely support the $15 per hour minimum wage. if not more. i think it should be. you know, for the last 20 years everything has gone up. housing, food, fixing your car. everything has gone up except wages.

i remember the last time the minimum wage at increased. everyone said that it was going to ruin businesses and everybody was going to lose their job. it didn't do that. it helped people. it didn't hurt these businesses. small businesses i could see, maybe. 15 employees or more, definitely. amazon, these a huge company should be paying $20 per hour to $25 per hour. look at what other countries pay. we are so far behind this country just seems like it's going downhill. my wage from my -- my wage myself for the last 20 years has gone down every single year. and i have a masters degree. host: why is it going down? caller: because it's so competitive out there and people will take the lower wages that you can't hardly live off of what they are paying. it's awful. host: do you have to get a

second job or are you making it work? caller: at this point i'm semi retired i'm 60. but throughout the last 20 years up until i was 60, you know, living in florida, which is a really high cost-of-living state. my pay went down all the time. you have all of these rich people down here that don't want to give up a dime. yet the majority of people here are service workers making minimum wage and they can't even afford to live here. they end up living on the outskirts. it's just unfair. the disparity has gotten too wide. i think the founding fathers would be turning over in their grave if they knew what was happening. host: linda mentioned minimum wage and other countries. i found this on the internet about the list of each country's minimum wage. the 10 countries with the highest minimum wage are

luxembourg at $13 70 eight cents and australia follows that. france and new zealand are over $11. germany, just over $10. the netherlands has well. ireland, under $10. canada, just under $10. compare that to seven dollars $.25 in the united states. what democrats want to do is the raise the wage act and here's the schedule. the minimum wage would become $9.50 upon enactment of the law. then after one year $11 per hour. two years, $12.50. after three years it would become 14 and then $15 per hour. that is the schedule for raising the minimum wage. senator tom cotton and mitt romney are proposing $10 minimum wage with mandatory e-verify. listen to the republican senator from utah who sent out this video by his twitter account.

[video clip] >> these are difficult times for a lot of families and for the working families, particularly those entering the workforce or in low-wage jobs, not having had an increase at the federal level for 10 years, this makes a lot of sense, so with tom cotton we propose raising the minimum wage over four years to $10 per hour and after that have it rise with inflation. that's a lot better than the $15 plan democrats are touting because the $15 plan would be a huge burden for businesses, going from $7.25 to $15 would be backbreaking and probably costs, well the congressional budget office said it would caused 1.3 million jobs. that's the wrong way to go. our plan doesn't costs jobs and is something that small businesses can live with. at the same time, we are marrying that with the provision to make sure that people cannot

come into the country illegally and take away jobs from americans. that's the plan,, to have a mandatory e-verify system that penalizes employers that hire people who are illegal where the employer hasn't checked the federal database to make sure. that's the plan i put out and hopefully we will get some traction on that and keep the democrats from doing something really nutty with their $15 plan. host: republican senator from utah, mitt romney, proposing $10 minimum wage and including mandatory e-verify. what are your thoughts on that? virginia, rich, but business owner. caller: thanks for taking my call. on a practical level, workmen's comp.. i have five employees and the lowest makes $22 per hour. the minimum wage doesn't matter to me.

but when you do your workmen's comp., it's all based on, the insurance companies charge you based on your wage rate. it's not by ours or by anything else. when you think of these companies, especially the service industry with seven dollar per hour employees and they get them up to $15 per hour, that's going to double the workmen's comp. bill. mine is $18,000 per year. for five employees. take a look at that quick to find out what these companies will do. they will pay their employees $15 per hour but they will only have half of the employees anymore. i think it's wonderful and it needs to happen. it absolutely needs to happen. but it can't just be all the congresspeople that don't have a clue how small businesses function. mitt romney, he's a perfect example of that.

$10 per hour. what's someone going to do with $10 per hour? until they look at this holistically and take into account all the companies with 5, 6, 10, 50 employees, it's going to turn into, excuse my french, an s show, it's not going to work and it's a great idea and i would love to see you guys continue to bang on this. you are the only people that can really get the word out. beyond that, i don't know. it's a great idea but they will find some way to ruin it. host: you say that you are for it as long as it is for businesses who have over a certain amount of employees? caller: no. my portion of medicaid will go up. well, it's not because my guys are above that. but every bit of the government is going to be yanking on the money to give to these people

that are only making seven dollars per hour and states are going to want their cut. the federal government will want to cut. everyone will stand back and say what a good job we did and these people are going to be no better off than they were when they were making 7.25. but you guys need to stay involved over the next couple of years. every time they say it's going great, you bring someone on the show like me to say hey, you are screwing these people. you are not helping them just to get political points ahead. that's all. host: cnbc has the headline, $15 minimum wage will result in layoffs. one third of small business owners say, according to the survey, they anticipate laying off workers if congress increases the federal minimum wage. the survey was done with survey

monkey. what makes up a small business? 54% of small businesses oppose raising the minimum wage, including responses from owners nationwide conducted january. greg and michigan, you say yes. hello, greg. caller: good morning. i'm 77 years old. the other guy gave away billions of dollars in tax breaks towards his friends. people in this country are homeless and they get very, very little help from most of the states. $15 per hour is not out of lack. when i was in the military i

made $80 a month. things have went up. you can't buy a new vehicle. look at the price, $65,000. there is people starving to death and they don't want to give them what's -- value for the work they do. it might not be a technical job, we don't have a lot of technical jobs who are open and we need people who can become bricklayers to make that money. deny them $15 per hour? i have family members and business. it's absolutely crazy that you want to take the downtrodden and keep them there and not try to help them at all. host: president biden as you know campaigned on $15 per hour minimum wage increase, said he would push for it. yesterday his white house press secretary was asked if he would support anything less than $15 per hour.

[video clip] >> with the president support anything less than $15? >> the president put $15 minimum wage in his package because that's what he believes the increase should be. as you know it's working its way through a parliamentary process at this point in time and hopefully we will have more news on that in the coming days. his support is for the $15 increase. >> senator sanders has said there is no room for compromise. does the president think there is? >> the compromise will be between members of the senate who may have disagreements on what the process should be. the first step is the birdbath. i like to say that. then members will, and we are hopeful that will include the minimum wage in there but that's up to the parliamentarians for that process and then senators will have to debate what the final package looks like. host: rose greeley, colorado.

rose, you make minimum wage. good morning to you. caller: good morning, good morning, thank you. i currently at this time make less than minimum wage. i'm a stay-at-home mom. i fought for $15 working for mcdonald's in chicago back in 2015. to this day seeing that there is such a debate, it's disheartening. so many families live in hotels because we can't afford rents in apartments and houses because they require a deposit upfront. $15 per hour, that's still not enough. let's be honest. to get a living wage, to be able to support your family and pay bills, you have to be able to give them a chance. for everybody that says no or

who are looking so far in the future that it may affect others , what about the people that can't even make it? what about the ones that didn't even get a stimulus check because it was garnished? you've got to start thinking about the little people because the rich people stay rich by keeping the poor people poor and that has to stop. host: a story about andrew cuomo and several of the papers today. lindsey bolin accused him of harassment and writes about her story on working with the governor and she begins with a quote from him. "let's play strip poker." she said she should have been shocked by his crude comments but she wasn't. then she goes on to write that she tried to excuse his behavior. "i told myself it's only words but it changed after a one-on-one briefing with him to

update him on economic and infrastructure projects. we were in his new york city office on 3rd avenue when i got up to leave and head towards an open door, he stepped in front of me and kissed me on the of md kissed me on the lips. i was in shock but kept walking. i was scared that stephanie benton had seen the kiss. the idea that someone might think i held my high-ranking position because of the governor's crush on me was more demeaning than the kiss itself. after that, my fears worsened. i came to work nauseous every day. my relationship with my senior team, mostly women, became hostile. i could no longer ignore it. i sent an email informing staff members of my resignation." "the new york times" says on wednesday that the debtor account releasing a statement

from officials who were on one or more of the -- in october of 2017, "we were on each of these october flights, and this conversation about playing strip poker did not happen." mr. cuomo did not directly address the new allegations, but in december when ms. boylan first went public, the governor vehemently denied the accusation. i fought for and believe that a woman has the right to express the opinions that she has, but it is just not true. darlene in brookings, oregon, you are a no to raising the minimum wage. good morning and tell us why. caller: good morning, how are you? i -- i believe that your wages,

your income wages should be in line with your education and your experience. i started work after getting my grant, my educational grant from the government back in -- that was for college, university, and i made $395 a month at that time for the state of california. i managed on that much -- a little apartment, a car, and everything else. but wages did go up, and i am now retired. and i am still a big believer in education, experience,

altogether should work into one where your wages -- host: got it, darling. allen, indiana. you are a yes? caller: i am a yes and a longtime listener. i love this show. you are a great host because you face a hostile and sometimes unintelligent audience. you do a fantastic job, just to let you know. i have been around for a while and i have seen several times when minimum wage was raised, and it is like the first time this has ever happened. i hear the same arguments over and over again -- people are going to lose their jobs, they are going to raise prices on everything, it is going to be a disaster. every time, the same thing happens. when people make more money,

they buy more stuff. when people buy more stuff, there is a bump up in the economy, and then more people get hired to make that stuff or to service that stuff. it goes up every time. people, history does repeat itself. every time you raise the minimum wage, consumer spending drives the economy. basic economics 101. i am all for it, but i'm just amazed. i am hearing the same arguments now that i have every time before, that if they raise the minimum wage, and none of them is true. host: richard from kentucky. you say no, richard. explain. caller: i just don't think i want to pay $25 for a big mac, large fries, and a coke. they tried this in california on the kroger company. they said, look, we have a

certain amount of money that we make on each of our krogers throughout the country, so we cannot make it. and they closed two of the stores. this is just one of many things that this new rescue plan has that they are pushing, but this is not the most important. will people please go and look where they are spending the money on this new plan? it is not for coronavirus. it is for all of their pet projects. they are not going to raise the minimum wage and keep mcdonald's in business. it is not going to happen. host: we have covered the debate on capitol hill, first on monday with the house budget committee. we talked with a chair of the house -- with the chair of the house budget committee, john yarmuth, about the specifics of this $1.9 trillion package. you can find it on our website, the interview and the hearing.

and then of course there will be gavel-to-gavel uninterrupted, unfiltered coverage of the debates in the house on friday when they are expected to vote on this legislation. in the senate, they are expected to take it up next week. that caller mentioned the california governor. he makes front page of "the new york times" with the headline "try to recall him." the new york times ties this to his response to the pandemic. you can be more if you go to nytimes.com. front page of the washington times has a story about a hearing that we covered yesterday on capitol hill, the headline "republicans rebuke democrats' call, even left-leaning people --

to pay a price for parroting donald trump's fourths -- false messaging. you want to watch that hearing, you can find it on our website, c-span.org. steve in detroit, michigan, we are talking about raising the minimum wage. you support that idea. good morning. caller: yes, hi, greta. i support it because two callers before me -- the only thing i can look at right now is when they do raise it, the rich cannot get ahead, and the reason is because you are digging into their pockets. you are going to say we are going to lose a lot of jobs. that is because instead of giving money to poor people, they are trying to keep up with the economy.

you are losing. that is all i've got to say. thank you for taking my call. host: owen, grand junction, colorado. you say no, owen. caller: good morning, i say no. the business owners, they are going to be losing a lot of money. if they have to hire these l gap people, because it is so awkward to make a sale. they are going to lose a lot. the guys that were working for less, when it jumps up, the guys who get in at the $15 level, they are not going to work as hard. they are going to be a lot less quality. and they are going to be losing money from the --

host: let's go to david in cincinnati. why do you support raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour? caller: first, thanks to your -- thanks for your program. i'm waiting for that new v.a. secretary to come on. i'm a veteran. i heard the guy say that kroger's closed two stores because they did not want to pay their employees the increase. and i say to myself, wait a minute, how much profit is enough before they start giving back to their employees? you never hear them say, well, we are not making any money. they are making money, they are just not making as much. and i think that's the difference for me. how much profit is enough before these companies give back? there is no rule or regulation

that says they have to give that money or share that money with their employees. they are not going to do that. they will do what kroger's did -- they will close the store. host: what about the shareholders and that dynamic? caller: the shareholders? don't you think they have enough money to invest in the stock market that they are worried about $7.25? they don't care about that. they only want to make money, that's it. that's fine, but how much profit is enough before you give back to your workers who make the money for you? host: david in ohio. mike in birmingham, alabama. you say yes as well. good morning. caller: yes, i say yes. i live in a red state and the minimum wage should be raised. they want to pay -- you cannot

live off $7.25 an hour. and if you are a small business, you cannot afford to pay minimum wage, then you don't need to have employees. that's crazy. host: ok. just looking at the state of alabama, the state of alabama's minimum wage is $7.25. there is no state minimum wage. they follow the federal minimum wage in the state of alabama. 21 states have raised their minimum wage over the past few years, many of them around nine dollars, $10, $11, $12, etc. new hampshire still at the minimum wage of $7.25, as well as other states. let's go to net in alexandria city, alabama. you say no, and there it is on

your screen. our producer scrolling through to see, to show you what the minimum wages in certain states. caller: thank you so much. first i want to tell you i love you as a host. you are great, and i'm so glad you can just let the haters go on by. you doing a great job. anyway, i have rental property, so i have been exposed to a lot of these -- my tenants who make anywhere between eight dollars, nine dollars, $10 an hour. i take section eight, and i have a gentleman making $10 an hour. his rent is $500. he only has to pay $130, section eight picks up the rest. he has food stamps. the reason i am saying all this is they don't live off of eight dollars, nine dollars an hour. there is government help out there that subsidizes their needs, which i always approved of because they do need to help.

he has two children, raised them by himself. food stamps pay only so much on utilities. his rent is cheap because of that. i call because i get tired of hearing people say you cannot live off of 75. that is in fact, you cannot. they do not. the federal program steps into help them pay their rent. host: let me bounce this all for view -- off of you. this is noah smith, tweeting. here is an idea, time minimum wage to local rent. it would make sure that minimum wage could afford the biggest, most essential item that poor people buy, and it would business -- turn business lobbies against the nim be why's . what is not to like?

tie minimum wage to the average cost of rent where they live. caller: but what does he mean? i don't know, but so far the government has been -- i almost forgot. this gentleman and others -- i have many others -- when they turn in their income tax, it is a low income program they have. he gets back 8000 a year. i have some that that's back 6000, 10,000. please, one more thing. the gentleman -- they always say prices are going to rise and they don't. are you kidding me? prices rise every year on everything. hey, i love you. host: ok. aps today in the paper, proposing this -- one option would be to index a minimum wage increase to the cost-of-living increase in each state instead of mandating an across-the-board rate. that would allow wages to

reflect economic reality, which can vary from state to state. a $15 minimum wage might not be enough in a high-cost state like new york, where median house income is 72,000. in west virginia, meetinghouse house income is $49,000 a year. it's here from jeff in pennsylvania. good morning to you. go ahead. caller: good morning. they don't want to give this money to the poor, raising the minimum wage. they would rather give it to somebody who gives it back in a foreign political donation. it is all about some party getting the money into the hands of a pac rather than in the hands of people who need it. it is sad to hear people complain, who are getting all their income supplemented by these programs helping them,

helping the poor, and they are complaining about the fact that that money is being used to support them in the form of their rental property. let's take care of people in this country instead of worrying about getting it into the hands of the political donors. thank you and keep up the great job. host: mary, california, sends us a text. "how about seattle having a $15 minimum wage, and they have a robust economy." you say no, elizabeth. welcome to the conversation. caller: yes, good morning. i'm not against the $15 wage increase on the federal level for everyone, but what i am upset about is that, as the previous caller who i believe was a landward mentioned, -- a

landlord mentioned, people at that threshold receive federal subsidies for the income, their meals, or for health care. but what about the people making $18 an hour who are working 40 hours a week who have no subsidies? when everyone else is making $15 an hour, with federal assistance or state assistance, and the people making $18 an hour are not. then you will have another subclass of people who are not. host: from usa today, financial experts say it could be making it easier to qualify for tax breaks such as the earned income tax credit. the tax credit is designed to reward work, and boosting incomes of american working in low and moderate paying jobs. the amount of the credit depends on a recipient's income. marital status and number of children. why may -- kwame in ashburn,

virginia. how much are you making, can you tell us? caller: $7.75. host: if the minimum wage was raised, what would that do for you? caller: it would do a lot. staying on government health like the landlord lady said -- these people don't understand that why would a company pay me $7.75 only for me to get the rest of the money from taxpayers, when i can work for myself and make money to support myself? the other guy that is complaining about mcdonald's costing 19 bucks. how many states already raised the minimum wage close to $15 or something around that rate? go and check how much mcdonald's is costing in those states and in other states. it is the same. this is not factual. these people always talk about this when it is time to help the

poor. pumping millions of dollars into the rich through the tax code when it changes, but then when it comes time to pay people for what they do, we have people's comments like the landlord lady, counting pennies and dimes and saying it is fine, let the government take care of the rest. that doesn't work. thank you, greta. host: kelly in bluefield, west virginia. you say no. go ahead. caller: you know, the government, first of all, with this vaccine, wants to put seniors at a high priority. when you come to this wage increase, you've got people that have been on social security from 10 years ago, and they haven't had a raise since then. these prices, wages go up to $15 an hour. people on social security are

not getting anything and they are going to be paying the high prices for everything else. if they want to look at raising things, they should look at the people on social security also. host: we were showing you the minimum wage in states across america. that information came from pay core. paycore.com. you can look to see what the minimum wage is in your state. a tweet from if you are saying, "romney's reasoning is all wrong. u.s. workers will remain at jobs at $15 an hour. they will not be able to employ cheap labor at $7.50 an hour. it won't exist anymore. no american willing to work at that ridiculous low-wage." chris from washington state. where is your town?

are you close to seattle? i ask because if you're sent a text. if you are said seattle raised it to $15 an hour, and she said it is a robust economy. would you agree? caller: oh, yeah, but mcconnell can just go out the window. i have been aligned with him in the past, here is where i am now. off bitcoin -- host: we are talking about minimum wage. caller: i can tie it together if you have -- host: ok, go ahead. caller: i don't know if you remember me, i was the last one before mueller went on. supporting their local economy with bitcoin, it can have a spiking effect to the wage, so i agree. i think there is consensus on a lot of the shows that you host

-- a lot of compliments to you also -- i mean, what do you think as an opportunity that the government may or may not take? i am no cryptocurrency expert, i am a business owner. i just got a payment for the first time in the currency and i am trying to figure it out. when is the last time an expert was on your air? host: we will take the suggestion, chris. thank you. the present's pic of office management and budget, her nomination is in jeopardy. lawmakers, according to the washington times, are considering alternatives. i want to read a piece, an opinion piece read by dana milbank -- written by dana milbank in the washington post. he knows about senator joe manchin's opposition to her nomination. "can you believe that she calls hillary clinton the antichrist and the -- the antichrist?

democrats including joe mansion confirmed him as secretary in 2017 fulsome how about the times that tandon allegedly called the naacp's a pinko organization that hates white people and use racial epithets? my bad, that was jeff sessions. again, 51 republican senators and one democrat, mansion, voted to confirm him as attorney general. when she suggested clinton supporters leave the country -- except that was mike pompeo, the one who did that. he won confirmation as secretary of state in 2018 with a vote of 50 republicans and six democrats, including joe mansion. but the most impolitic thing -- appalling thing that tandon said is that muslims have appalling

-- the same position tandon is up for now. joel in michigan -- excuse me, go to virginia, waldorf, maryland. you say yes. go ahead, virginia. caller: i'm definitely for minimum wage going up. there are listings for -- in the state of maryland, in the county i am in, there is a two-year waiting list to get on for assistance and housing. food stamps is a joke in itself. anybody really familiar with these programs, by increasing the wage you are going to reduce the social services needed, which will benefit the states. i just don't understand where people cannot see that in an economy, in order to get rid of

the social service programs and to increase the actual living values of people, you need a decent wage. host: mark in illinois says no. hi, mark. caller: good morning, greta. i vote no on this. i don't understand. i'm 64-year-old, and when i was growing up, you got a job at mcdonald's and these minimum wage jobs until you got a real job. i don't understand. host: mark, how do you respond to people saying that these are not just teenagers making this wage, these are adults and some of them have children? caller: but why are people satisfied with a mcdonald's job? why isn't it like it used to be? mcdonald's job is something you got when you were out of high school until you got training or got a real job?

i don't understand. host: what if it is the only job available? caller: pardon me? host: what if it is the only job available where they live? caller: there are jobs all over. people just don't want to -- i'm sorry, people just don't want to work. i don't understand. host: how do you know? caller: all the people who have jobs are going to be paying for this price increase and everything, giving these mcdonald's people and all the other people $15 an hour. thank you very much for your time. host: have you looked for a job lately? mark left. bonnie, alexandria, minnesota. caller: the best thing about washington journal is there are no medicare commercials. i say yes to the $15 minimum wage. i know where i live, everybody that works at mcdonald's -- i

mean, i saw a sign yesterday, they were hiring, $14. i don't know anybody who works for less than $15. that is young people. a lot of the elderly people work at the fast food places. you can deliver pizza and make almost $20 an hour. i don't know how anybody could live on seven dollars 25 -- $7.25 or whatever it is. host: charles, what is your business? caller: i own a restaurant. i would like to say something to the american people. you control everything. all you have to do is don't go to a place like mcdonald's or kroger. don't go to them. you control it. they will pay it. what is wrong with you all? you let everybody lead you around. you are the people. host: consumer demand, power of

the purse. is that what you are saying? caller: dumbest people i have ever seen in america. host: diane, mansfield, ohio. you support the idea of raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. tell us why. caller: i want to say right onto charles. in four years when it goes to $25 an hour for people to live -- florida past this, a very conservative state, and they passed it and things are going well. i want to remark also to the woman from alabama who is a landlady. walmart used to pay employees much less than they do now, and they were perfectly fine letting the state -- meaning the taxpayers -- cover whatever was left over. so when we pay for these social

services, it is us that are paying for it. it is nothing government, it is our money. here is walmart making tons of money. the same with kroger. kroger wasn't asking -- they were asked if for dollars an hour extra to the people, to the extra workers. inc. about how much money kroger has made, and they are not willing to pay four dollars more to people who are essential workers. host: senate budget committee led by senator bernie sanders, who is one of the key supporters of pushing this minimum wage, he is holding a hearing today at 10:00 a.m. eastern time, hearing from a worker from walmart and mcdonald's. you could watch that on our website, c-span.org. don, good morning. it is your turn.

caller: i'm retired, i'm 65, maybe 66. i've worked for 50 years. since i have been retired for the last six years, my pension does not keep up because i don't get a raise. i'm concerned that the $15 raise will cause inflation to skyrocket. i lived through the clinton era -- not the clinton era in the 70's, i saw prices go through the roof. could not stay with it. inflation eight us up. gas, you couldn't even get gas. i'm afraid inflation is just going to eat that 15 -- $15 an hour up anyway. host: karen in connecticut,

hello. caller: just to give you a little history. i am a parent of an adult disabled person who does not have the capability to work beyond a bagging job or entry-level job. if you want to get people off welfare you have to have work for them. they have to have a living wage, not just the minimum wage. the same people that complained about the minimum wage going up don't want to pay their tax dollars to help anybody. i found this out in all of my battles for her all of her life. that is why i left the republican party. it is the republican party that likes keeping people on welfare. like that woman, she is getting rich off our tax dollars, they love it. we could fix the problem of the

small business by going with not the number of employees but the profit levels. give them tax breaks so they could pay people a living wage. host: angela in franklin, north carolina. good morning, where do you work? caller: i'm currently disabled. i am for the minimum wage increase. i used to work in florida, i'm originally from florida. i worked in the groves doing many different jobs including alligator farming. i got paid minimum wage. i was making $3.35 an hour. when i was making $3.35 an hour i was able to stack up unpaid

checks. i was able to save up my money. i'm currently on disability, i get section eight and i'm proud to get section eight. the rent where i'm at now, i would not be able to afford it on the income that i get. i'm happy about the government programs. i don't eat much. the food stamps to supply everything i need. again, it is all in the budgeting. the container of cheese balls, i might get one every six months. that is the end. when i get those empty i could

get cereal and things like that. i could basically stock up. i have lots of food and i'm not spending much on food and stuff because i am able to stock up. host: you have to tell us, what is an alligator farm? caller: that is where we breed and grow alligators. the skins for the purses, boots, what not. stuff of the sort. i used to pack the meat for the alligator farm. i was the only female everywhere i worked. i've done a lot of different jobs in my day. i'm only 55 years old.

i started working at nine years old and learn how to be fiscally responsible from nine years old. came out of a difficult, to mulch you a situation at home. that is where i decided to go out into the community and learn how to survive on my own. older brothers and sisters were handed everything. whenever they needed to know everything, they come to the baby of the family. i'm basically the encyclopedia for my siblings. host: thanks for calling in. ken, in wilmington, north carolina. caller: i just wanted to say when i got married in 1972 i got

$2.60 an hour. my wife didn't work because we had a new baby. after that, i became disabled in 1983. i've been on disability since then. it took me three years to get the government to give it to me. anyway, after all of these years, almost 50 years now, the minimum wage is only $7.25 an hour. i think they should go to $15 an hour. host: we will return to our conversation in the last hour. up next we will talk to two members of congress about the $1.9 trillion covid relief package. up first is freshman republican

byron donalds of florida. later is tom halloran, cochair of the moderate blue dog coalition. after that, the "new york times" is reporting that the cost for the capital assault -- capitol assault will exceed $30 million. here is the architect of the capitol offering new details in a hearing and how his staff responded to the attack on the capitol on january 6. >> on the morning of january 6 my team were preparing the grounds for the inauguration change. about mid day as crowds began to appear our equipment was moved indoors.

over the course of a couple hours it was destroyed. deplatform was wrecked. there was broken glass and debris everywhere. equipment was stolen or damaged beyond repair. lanterns were ripped from the ground and paint was tracked across the hallways of the capitol. as the crowd began crashing through windows and doors, my staff undertook several unheralded actions in support of congress. these employees sheltered congressional staff to protect them from the mob. other teams race to the roof to reverse the airflow to clear the air of bear spray and pepper spray. other team members rushed water

and eyewash stations to capitol police officer's in need of assistance. in my opinion, we served as a light of hope that day and in the days following the insurrection. as soon as the officials cleared the building, they worked tirelessly to begin repair work. carpenters covered broken windows, laborers began sweeping up glass and broken furniture to allow congress to continue its work. they cleared a small amount of debris left on the west and east front. our painters carefully repainted the platform. we were committed to ensuring the electoral college certification process would continue on january 6. furthermore, we were sharply focused on ensuring the campus was prepared for the presidential inauguration without interruption. to signal our nation's supporting a peaceful transition

of power. >> washington journal continues. host: we want to welcome to our program freshman congressman byron donalds, republican of florida. let's talk about your personal life, what were you doing before you ran for congress? guest: i was a financial advisor working in financial banking. working in insurance for 17 years. i was just a family man back in naples, i coached little league sports, went to church. just a normal person. politics found me when i was about 30 years old, here i am. host: how to find you? guest: if thou be back in 2008. we had clients who were international. they were very concerned about what was happening in the

insurance market. my firm had me go and research what was going on, before insurance i was writing reports for bank regulators. i was tasked to do the research. what happened was i watched house financial services on c-span back in 2008 and i was dumbfounded that to me the members did not know much about what they were talking about. that is what got me paying up attention to politics for the first time in my life. host: you did what with that? guest: i started watching cable news. i wasn't too much a fan. i read john locke, i wanted to understand the creation of our government and the actual

philosophies behind political movements. i'm actually quite conservative. from there i got involved in republican politics. host: did you not consider yourself a republican before that? guest: i was a registered democrat. i am from brooklyn, new york. my whole family was registered democrats. i didn't care about politics. what i found across the country talking with real people, not people involved in the process that most people just register based on what their family does and what their friends do. don't pay much attention to politics at all. it is important you reach voters where they are. not get caught up in what is going on at capitol hill or state legislatures. you really have to talk to people. host: when you read those philosophical books, what resonated with you?

guest: it is quite simple. law is supposed to see something -- be something that is plain and easy to understand. all people should be able to follow it. law should not be a rubric of trying to achieve a goal. it should be a roadmap of basic rules and principles for how we organize our lives. as long as the government's role is simple but straightforward. i think all people actually thrive in that kind of environment. host: what is your position on the president's rescue plan on covid-19. guest: i oppose the bill for a myriad of reasons. the biggest one is best. if you are actually going to try to stimulate our economy while providing relief for coronavirus , we wouldn't be spending $1.9

trillion. we would be spending the percent that deals directly with covid-19. continue to do ppe and send checks to individuals. it needs to be extremely more targeted then it is right now. it be extremely more targeted. this bill here is simply spending priorities from the democrats and the president. there has been no real detail or focus given to where the help is needed in our economy. when you are building bridges in buffalo and underground railroads in silicon valley, they are using a pandemic as an excuse for spending projects you could never get done in regular order. furthermore we needed money to help our schools reopen. already 50 plus billion dollars available to schools right now to help them reopen. it is not about getting new

money. it is about school districts having the will to follow the real science like we have done in florida and reopen schools. if they really needed the revenue to keep their budgets afloat, they should do what we have done in florida and reopen the economy. if you look at our state, our deaths per capita ranked 26th or 27th in the country. we have reopen for quite some time. we have given business owners the information to make legitimate decisions to not only guard the health of their employees but the health of their customers. while also managing the pandemic. many other states are not doing this. to me, it is foolish to send billions of dollars out the door when they have not done the basic things to help their citizens thrive. host: the one point $9 trillion american rescue plan as it is called includes $400 a week in

unemployment insurance supplements and as the congress was saying $400 billion to fight coronavirus and open schools. $350 billion for state and local governments. $15 minimum wage. those are some of the specifics. on this for hundred dollar a week unemployment insurance supplement. are you for that or opposed? guest: i'm actually for it as long as it is tied to people who have lost their jobs due to the pandemic. we have to come back to the realization that this bill should be about relief associated with the pandemic. that is what it should only be a part of. that money should not apply if it is lost for a reason other than the pandemic. when i say it has to be targeted, this is what i mean. $15 minimum wage it has nothing to do with the pandemic.

i was listening to some of your calls before we went live. $15 minimum wage is ideal for someone who believes it is important to raise the federal minimum wage. what i tell people in my district is a couple of people -- things will happen as a result. the minimum wage will go up. one thing is very clear. people in the low skill end of our economy are going to lose hours or they will lose jobs. the budget office has been very clear on that. the second thing that is going to happen, the price of goods sold is going to go up. what are we going to sell the seniors that no longer work but are living on fixed incomes? going to a restaurant, going to a supermarket, those will go up. effectively what will happen with the $15 minimum wage is the people who keep jobs and hours will get a raise. there will be a lot of people whose hours will be cut as a result of the $15 minimum wage.

prices are going to go up in the united states of america. that is what is going to happen. the people on the others of the aisle will never acknowledge that. they never take account the people who will lose their jobs. never take into account the millions of americans who are going to see their hours cut. they deafly don't take into account what is going to happen with our senior citizens when the price of goods increases. host: what about the minimum wage that increasing it would lift 900,000 out of poverty? guest: i understand what is trying to say but they are not acknowledging what i just told you. when you are dealing with wages, you also look at the other end of the spectrum, purchasing power. if you are making $15 an hour but the prices of the goods you are buying increases at the same

percentage, what have you gained in reality? your paycheck looks bigger but you are still spending the same amount of your money on the same amount of goods. in america or any economy for that matter, purchasing power, the ability so every dollar you earn to buy more product or goods matters just as much, if not more than the actual wage. the only thing they are looking at is the mathematical computation of my raising the minimum wage what happens to somebody's paycheck coming home. what they do not take account is what the ability of those dollars and services they need in the ordinary lives. the price of goods and services will increase as well. it will make the increase to minimum wage negligible. the other thing to acknowledge, the vast majority of americans think about $7.25 an hour. right now you could make a clear

argument that the actual market minimum wage is around $12 or $13 today without the federal government stepping in and doing anything. this is something that will continue to rise over time. the price of goods will go up. if you go and say that everybody in the united states has to make $15 an hour no matter what, the price of goods will go up. look around you, go to mcdonald's, go to some of these gas stations. they are beginning to automate more and more. that is what happens. the low skilled workers are the ones that will suffer. this is why i'm opposed. host: one to happen anyway without arise? guest: you are making a decision on what a corporation will choose to do. that is the argument. if you artificially inflate the wage, the minimum wage.

if government steps in and changes the market dynamic. they will push automation even faster than they are right now. that is what is going to happen. it is very clear we understand this. that is not totally true. you don't know what those dynamics are. the one thing we do know is if you make an artificial increase to minimum wage, hours will be cut. we have seen this happen in seattle. we are seeing this happen in other pockets around the country. host: share with our viewers the evidence you have seen of that argument in states or cities like seattle where they raised it. where have you see the evidence that the price of living have gone up? guest: there are many articles where you had restaurant owners saying they had to put an additional tax on the bill or

additional fee to cover the minimum wage. you have the situation in california where they made a salary adjustment in one of the counties. kroger closed two stores. one of my closest friends was telling me about how he was at a subway in florida. in seattle the same sandwich is $11. they said we have this increase in the minimum wage. i have to increase my cost. i have business owners in my district telling me right now as a result of minimum wage increases they will have to increase the cost of their product. a lot of businesses actually operate on thin margins. one of the greatest fallacies we have is business owners are here breaking in millions of dollars. what we have to understand is most businesses in america, the

margins are quite thin. when you move to a situation where you artificially increase the value of labor, what you are going to do is make businesses rethink how they make the thin margins they already make right now. talk to any small business owner in america, the vast majority will tell you the same thing. host: let's get the calls. caller: to your logic, you are telling me nobody has raised their prices since last time we had minimum wage raise? they will raise the prices anyway. give them a raise so they could afford the prices. guest: the problem with that is when you give artificial wages -- wage increases, what is going to happen is prices will

increase. like i said before, it is not so much about how much money you make in your paycheck. it's about the ability to buy products and provide services with the money you make. this is what we should be focused on more than anything else. not just about somebody in their paycheck per hour. if you raise the minimum wage and under this proposal it is a 107% increase but the price of goods increase 107%, what is gained? what is gained by somebody who grows up like i grew up in brooklyn, new york? what i'm saying is we should not put policy into the value in the price of labor. labor has to have its own intrinsic value. when somebody goes to work, that

has a value. we should not intercede political science into the value of somebody's labor. what is going to happen is the goods people buy will increase as a result or the hours those people work are going to be cut as a result. if you are making $15 an hour working $40 a week, they will say i can't give you 40 hours, you could get 30 hours. you are not ahead. this is the problem with the minimum-wage argument. caller: hello, good morning. if you give somebody $15 an hour and you say well that's what i'm good with my $15 an hour is go to the cheapest price. if there's a competitor selling hamburger for a dollar 50, i'm going there. you will sell more hamburgers. if mcdonald's goes out of business, so what.

the stimulus package, germany, europe, all through the pandemic they paid their workers 80% of their income, no problem. they made it a national security issue. we have $740 billion to fight a war. we are america. common sense. thank you. host: congressman, your thoughts? guest: i didn't support the wars overseas. i'm a freshman member so i was not here for those things. i probably would've voted no. that's a whole another story. it is important to understand when you go back to these arguments. when is federally mandated, that means every small business, every large corporation has to live under the minimum wage. once you do that, the price increases will happen across the board. back to my point of saying we

have to be careful about this. when you increase the value of labor. the cost of paying individuals is always the largest cost in any business. when you do that and you increase the value of costs, what you will do as a result is people will get less hours or the price of goods will increase. either way, people are not getting ahead. this is the problem with this proposal. host: we are talking with byron donalds, he served in the house of representatives in florida from 2016 through 2021. he worked as a commercial credit officer and portfolio officer in financial services. caller: good morning. i just noticed you were saying that prices are going to increase because of the minimum wage hike. i think prices are already increasing.

just here in philadelphia, pdw went up because they were saying the weather was not getting warmer. they went up on the pricing. even with comcast, it goes up every year on our taxes. then people need more money. i went to work for phil abundance one time when i was laid off. a person saw me with my union shirt on. she's like how long are you going to stay? when i was working for $10 an hour i was like not very long. people do want people to stay there longer. where they put prices that they were paying, nobody will stay on the job that long.

the turnstile with workers coming in. host: let's get thoughts from the congressman. guest: the tax with the cable company is run by the state legislature of pennsylvania. the taxes in your cable bill is what the state government does. i don't want to speak to comcast erie it i have seen my comcast bill go up too. i decided i will not pay comcast. i picked -- i cut that off. whether it was just internet service or going to netflix or hulu, whatever the case might be. i want to be consistent on my point. when you do it artificially across the board, there is no company whether they are comcast or whether you are talking about a mom and pop shop, nobody will

be able to escape it. talk to some of the small businesses in philadelphia. the owners of those small businesses. what is going to happen when you increase the minimum wage? there will be less people that wage? there will be less people who work in that store. that is what will happen because there's not enough money to go around to pay the higher wage to people who work in that business. either people's jobs will be cut or the price of the cheesesteak will increase. that is what will happen. host: newark, new jersey. democratic caller. caller: congressman, you got it wrong. i am a moderate. i know things. your figuring is wrong because it takes five years to increase. five years.

not one day. five years. get it right. host: your reaction? guest: the proposal now is is increased over five years to $15. the next tyke will be 7.25 dollars to $11 an hour and that increases every year after that and that it floats at inflation, which is something we have never done in the country. what will happen, i will keep repeating myself, when you do an increase like this, they are trying to chop it up to little steps every year, it will go to that point, so when you go from $7.25 to $11 an hour and leave it up to inflation, the prices will increase every year as a result because in any business

enterprise, i do not care if you are talking about a sandwich shop, either the hours come down or prices go up. that is the way it works. if the value of labor goes up and the business loses its profit margin, then it is no longer a business. in that event the business will close. a business owner will not allow that to happen. they will make adjustments to try to find a way for the business to survive. this is a basic function of how business operations work. host: we appreciate getting a new voice on today's program. thank you very much. we hope you come back again. guest: absolutely. thanks for having me. we will take -- host: we will take a short break. when we come back will be joined by democratic congressman tom o'halloran, and later postmaster general louis dejoy testified on capitol hill and all of the service delays over the past several months. we will talk about that in our last hour.

>> american history tv on c-span three, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. coming up this weekend, saturday at 6:00 eastern on the civil war , discussion with h w brands, author of the zealot in the emancipator, john brown, abraham lincoln, in this study for american freedom. on real america at 4:00, we've marked the 80th anniversary of the uso with three films, including the 1971 film, uso, 30 years of service hosted by bob hope. in a 1970 two film documenting a trip to vietnam by semi davis junior. on american artifacts, bruce

goldfarb, author of 18 tiny deaths, the story of the invention of modern forensic shows dollhouse sized crime scenes -- and helped pioneer the science of crime scene investigation. at 8:00 on the presidency, discussion of elizabeth powell, george washington's political confidant and a look at surviving eight-page letter which provides a glimpse into her role as washington's confidant. explore the american story and watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> washington journal continues. host: congressman tom o'halloran , democrat of arizona and cochair of the blue dog coalition to talk about the $1.9 trillion covid aid bill.

explain, for those who are not familiar, what is the blue dog coalition? guest: the blue dog coalition is a moderate group of democrats who are conservative about the defense budget, the cost of the budget in total and fiscal issues within congress. those are the two main areas. it has been in existence since the mid-1990's. we are a source of information to balance the discussion. host: how many are there of you in congress? guest: there are 18 of us now. there were 28 last congress. the elections hit the moderate democrats pretty hard. host: are you on board with the president's plan to spend $1.9 trillion on covid aid relief? guest: i am. i am definitely on board with it. i think there is a critical need for us to consider what happens

if we do not do this. we went from may until the end of december without investing in america for this covid issue. it got us in trouble and hurt american families. the death toll kept rising. we have to find a way to realize the need for investment right now. if we do not get a handle on this, our economy will continue to suffer, and most importantly, we will see more deaths and our families will be hurt even more. host: why not pare it down to just the provisions related to covid-19? guest: that will be a discussion as we move forward. i am sure the senate will have a lot of discussion on that also. as this comes together, we will vote on it tomorrow or the next day.

the key thing is what is needed to keep america moving? the economy, the concept we have to addressed and invest in the vaccines, invest in our hospitals, make sure our families -- we cannot afford to have millions of people out in the streets because of evictions . the list goes on and on. that gets us up to a pretty considerable amount of money, the same amount of money we initially invested in april of last year. whether it is the ppp program for businesses, especially small businesses, where we are losing way too many businesses. it is not just today. it is about moving from where we are at today into an area where we can get back the economy,

some of the economists say we will not be where we were until 2024. that is a terrible blow on the economy of america and we have to address that issue. host: the new republic picked on a letter you sent in february to the president asking him to pare down this legislation. have you changed your mind? guest: i did not ask him to pare it down, i asked him to vote on a specific part of that legislation to address that issue immediately because of the dire position we are in. we are where we are at now. that did not happen, now we have to look at the entire bill so we move this along. host: what about voting as a bloc, all 18 of you, to say we want this just to be provisions

related to covid-19? guest: that would delay the overall negotiations on this bill, the overall discussions. we need to get it to the senate. they want us to take the lead on the bill and we have to get it over there to have that discussion. we will have that discussion, but this is one step in a multitude of steps. we need to get this done by the middle of march. host: the vote is expected tomorrow. we are talking with congressman o'halloran about it. where are you on the minimum wage increase? guest: i voted for it in the last congress. i will vote in this package for it again. i wish it was a separate bill but it is not. that is one of the issues that will be dealt with in the senate. it did not pass through the senate the last term, so we will see what happens this time around. when you have a minimum wage at the federal level of $7.25.

the state of arizona has a min wage of $15, it is around $12 right now. our economy has not collapsed. right now, in spite of the covid, it is doing very well because of tourism and other factors. large corporations have not been as impacted by this pandemic. it does not make any sense that we have families across this nation over a couple of decades falling further behind on the ability to keep up with inflation. inflation is a key element. right now the federal reserve is pouring money into this economy to help save our economy. we also need to help save the american family and make sure as we look into the future they are able to partake in a growing

economy just like corporations are and everybody else. you cannot continue to have this huge disparity between those making money -- they take risks, there is no doubt about it. it is a partnership between the workforce and those that invest in companies and those that run companies. this country will be better off when we have a more level playing field. host: politico has a scoop on motions to recommit. they are reporting that minority leader kevin mccarthy has issued a memo to gop ranking members on a plan to resurrect the motions to recommit by mirroring the process used for the previous questions. they write "republicans to tie democrats to specific policy proposals on motions to recommit . further, if any mtr's adopted

the bill will be sent back to committee until the legislation is committed until the legislation is amended to reflect improvements sought by a majority of the house." how would you vote? guest: i would be against that. it delays us being able to get public policy through the process. i do not like the motion to recommit at all. i think if you have an amendment you need to put that amendment through the process, whether it be a normal jurisdictions or the other sites to that issue or the rules committee. get it done. if it is that important, it appears most of the motions to recommit are associated with politics. getting people on record. we are in the business of creating public policy for the american people. not to try to one up one another through a political process. that just confuses the issue. host: politico reports house

republicans won eight motions to recommit last congress, largely winning over moderate democrats who fear gop attack ads and causing headaches for democratic leaders. guest: it creates headaches on both sides. both sides have used the motion to recommit. i do not like it. i do not think it is part of the process we should be in. it is not deliberative. it comes at the last moment. i have sat in my office waiting for a motion to recommit, and as i started walking to the floor only to find out halfway to the floor what the amendment is about. there is no opportunity to discuss it other than a 10 minute debate. that is not public policy. that is not moving our country along. that is politics. i do not think it has any place. host: politico notes the margins are tighter in this progress and republicans would only need to peel off five democrats to swing the vote.

john in cleveland, ohio. independent. you are up first. caller: good morning. i am 83 years old. you are vanishing breed. we do not have any budgets for 25 years. it is nothing more than oxymoron. an oxymoron. we do not have any budget. we do not even have a bumper sticker for the deficit hawks. this is not what our founding fathers wanted. guest: i agree 100%. our budget process has been a problem for decades. it is something that is not adhered to correctly. we have to have regular order so the budgets to come through the process. they need to be timely. i have been a proponent, and i have had bills to say if the budget is not done by when it is due, which is late september, if

it is not done then we stay in progress until it is done. we do not wait and continue resolutions and all of other options that are available, having taken off almost all summer away from washington. you cannot conduct business like this. you would not do it in your own business and we should not do it for the sake of the american people. our businesses, our families, everybody needs to be able to plan for the future. it is hard to plan when the federal government does not have its budget and the unknown questions keep popping up. how is this program going to be successful? you talk to the defense people. when we do a continuing resolution, we have done too many of them. it usually costs our government billions of dollars because they

have to readjust their contractual obligations. that goes through almost every agency. it is a terrible waste of money and not the appropriate way to conduct business. the blue dogs are against that process, also. host: wayne in olympia, washington. republican. caller: the way they conduct business anymore is appalling. they are asking for $1.9 trillion and they have not even spent the money they have. they need to go back. go back and start over again. i am sorry. spent the money you have got. it is not your money. it is the people's money. the people that put you in office. host: congressman, what about that argument? the money from the last bills passed has not been spent. guest: it has not been spent --

it is going to be spent by the end of march. it has been sitting there waiting to be spent in a regular process. as bills come in, we pay them. when we did the $9.8 billion budget, i was one of those people that tried to get it away from a higher level, to bring it back to something we could at least identify where the need was. this argument i have heard time and time again on the floor, we still have money. we have money until the end of march. that is why it is critical we get the bill done. a lot of that money, $480 billion as of january, was for our small businesses to make sure they understood clearly that they had a way to continue in business. the idea we would wait month after month for them while they

are continuing to go out of business, and that another large percentage of that was spent recently by the president in buying more vaccines. the opportunity came along to make sure we could have enough vaccines by the end of july, while they are being produced right now, to be able to vaccinate most of the american people and get it in front of this virus. -- get in front of this virus. the idea -- people of been using the word $1 trillion out there, it is not true. host: mitt romney come in his piece in the wall street journal , cited the congressional budget office, saying more than a third of the proposed funding would not be spent until 2022 or later. guest: i have not seen that congressional budget report yet. i have not seen mr. romney's statement in the journal.

i will look at it. our estimates have been different than that. we will see what he had to say. 700 and some billion dollars of the $908 billion, we have spent more than that already. host: john in pennsylvania, democratic caller. caller: yes, greta. great show. i would like to say we have deaf, dumb, and blind republican senators that we have a democratic president they do not want to spend money. thanks. host: let me go to doug in wisconsin. republican. caller: hello. host: you are on. caller: hello? host: please go ahead with your question. caller: one thing i do not think we have been looking at as far as the increase in minimum wage

is that a lot of people that are on minim wage are getting some assistance. an increase in their financial income would disallow them from some of these benefits. in a way they are cutting their own throats or hurting themselves. has this been addressed? has this been looked at? host: go ahead. guest: we recognize that they are on some level of assistance because they are poor, because they cannot afford health insurance, they cannot afford enough food for their families. that has to change. we are a society based on free and open market spirit we are a society based on making sure we grow as a market, as a country. you cannot do that with levels of poverty continuing to increase.

you cannot do it based on federal budget issues, expenses, less taxes coming in. we need to realize these families, most of them do not want to be on assistance. they want to be able to work and bring home a living wage and be able to partake in the wonders of america and our country. this concept that we should be afraid of people having to do better in life and continue to be having to need federal assistance. i think most families, i grew up in a family of below moderate income, i can guarantee you that. my father was a janitor. we watched money like mad. every time my dad still had a job we appreciated that. we were never on assistance, but my father made sure if he needed to do more work he found another area, took on another building

to take care of as a janitor. that is part of the american process. hard work is a good thing and it brings about a family that has a vision of what the next generation can be doing. host: chris in tennessee, independent. caller: i think congress's number one job is to create a budget. my opinion is you do not want to create a budget because it constrains your spending. my question to you would be do you vote for all of these continuing resolutions spending bills? thank you. guest: i do vote for them. we have to get this done. the system is broken. i'm going to agree with you on that. if we do not do that, our country comes to a stop. i believe one of the main faults of this process is we do not get

our budgets done on time, and there's plenty of time to do them. there is no reason why congress should be off the whole month of march. if you want to get a budget done in july, take some time off. i should say august. take some time off. do not tell me in the middle of september we are going to do a continuing resolution because we did not have enough time to get the budget done. i hear that all of the time. there is no reason why congress cannot get their budget done on time. other than the fact that you have to be there to get it done. i understand the difficulties. i am a former businessman. i understand there is times when you look and say how will we get through this? you cannot do that by not being there in congress and having that discussion on a continual basis. that is critically important.

i do not think it sends a good message to the people of america of the type of leadership we provide to the american public and public policy. host: tim is in wisconsin. democratic caller. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to say i do not see so much hypocrisy in washington anymore. i believe the way just to be raised slowly in a rising tide raises all ships. what gets me is a lot of these red state senators are talking about we have to control the deficit and so on, and they do not want to help california, new york. they have been slowing the boat since the civil war -- they pay a lot more income tax. some states get four dollars back for every dollar they send in for some it is worse.

host: there is an imbalance within our society. some states have much more poverty than other states. as far as blue states versus red states, we are all americans. we share in whether the boat is floating or moving forward or sinking because it does have a profound impact. i had find that in many states where they have good jobs or good wages, they are donor states to some of the other states do not have it. a lot of the states are states in rural america. we have to acknowledge that rural america has been hit hard throughout this pandemic. also throughout the last few decades. the family farms are in trouble. the infrastructure moving through those areas -- my district is bigger than the state of illinois.

i have 54% of arizona's landmass and i can guarantee you as i drive around that district i see how the economy is being impacted. we have the closure of pull generation plants -- of coal generation plants. i have four, i have three now. there are places nearby in new mexico were people in my district work. there is a critical issue addressing those red states to make sure they participate in the american dream also. as far as what politicians say, whether they are red or blue, we have to create public policy that is meaningful to the american people. this argument about politics should be secondary to the discussions we should be having on appropriate public policy. host: rose in nashville, tennessee. republican. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i have two comments. one is about covid relief. i know people, myself included, are retired on social security, and we are still waiting for our paper check for the $600 we have never gotten. that is my comment on that. i do not know -- if the rs, if we owe the irs money they would find a way to get it from us, it seems like they are very slow in getting the paper checks out. we are all seniors. it is very slow on getting these paper checks out to us. that is my comment on that. as far as the minimum wage, what nobody has brought up this morning that i have heard is that when the wages go up, the state and federal withholding is going to come out. that is going to be higher. how is anybody going to be better off, especially -- the

former congressman said about the cost of labor and goods is going to go up. that is true. i noticed when i was working that if i worked overtime i would think i was going to be making all this money, and then when my check came, by the time it bumped me into a higher income bracket i was not that much better off from working all of the hours of overtime. those are my comments. host: ok, rose. congressman? guest: as you make more money your taxes will go up and your deductions for social security and other areas will go up. that is part of the system. i do think in 2017 i voted against the tax cuts at that time when 80% of it went to corporations and people making extreme amounts of money. i think a lot of that needs to be brought back to people that are on social security, that are not able to pay higher taxes all

of the time. if we continue down this path, if the federal government does not step in until about city, states, and counties and local municipalities, taxes will go up in those areas. we are able to borrow money at almost zero right now. we still have to get an infrastructure bill in order to make sure we have the development of our infrastructure to be able to compete on a worldwide basis, create the jobs that are necessary at good paying levels. most of those jobs are construction oriented jobs or research oriented jobs or planning jobs that all pay a lot better than minimum wage and have benefits. we need to start to think of that -- in terms of that. obviously, the social security issue has to continue to be addressed on an ongoing basis,

and the fairness of where that social security number is in relationship to being able to keep up with inflation. the cost allowance has not kept up with that at all. we host: congressman tom o'halleran , cochair of the blue dog coalition. we thank you for the conversation. come back again. guest: my pleasure. host: we are going to turn our attention to the postal service. we will talk with a government executive. that conversation just after this break. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 has nonfiction books and authors every weekend. sunday evening at 9:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, nationally syndicated radio host

eric texas on his book, "fish out of water to are: he is interviewed by the claremont institute center. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, it is argued that there has been an increase of sexual assault in europe due to immigration in her book, immigration, islam and the erosion of women's rights. at 11:05 easton, best-selling author and retired army men talk about their books, a profile of men and women who have fought in u.s. wars going back to vietnam. watch book tv on c-span2 sunday evening. >> washington journal continues. host: senior correspondent with government executive here to talk about the state of the postal service.

you want to hear from our viewers about their experience with the agency. start dialing in and we will get to your stories. yesterday up on capitol hill, the postmaster general was testifying. what was the point of the hearing? guest: the point of the hearing was that democrats in the committee had introduced new legislation to reform and overhaul the operations at the postal service and they wanted to go over that plan and talk to postmaster general dejoy and other officials who were there about strategies and plans for putting the postal service on a better footing. they have been struggling for years financially and more recently with their delivery because they have had severe delays. all of that was out for

discussion and it got heated at times because postmaster dejoy has made enemies in his gray months since taking over as -- in his 8 months since taking over the usps. host: why has he made enemies? guest: he says he was trying to make things run more smoothly. by his own admission, he confirmed that those changes lead to some significant delays and that was in the run-up to the election. it sounds funny to a lot of people, especially because this past election, due to the pandemic, the most mail-in election ever. de-joy was a republican fundraiser for years and an ally of president trump's. there were people who thought maybe he was trying to sabotage the postal service in the

custody election. really what happened was he was trying to operate the agency more like a business and that has consequences that he was not prepared for. host: what reforms were members of congress talking about? guest: part of what they were looking at was long-standing proposals that have been talked about in congress for many years, as long as i have been covering this, for a while now. they were looking at reforming healthcare benefits that postal employees receive. part of that is that they have a mandate to put down payments on benefits for future retirees. it is a requirement that no one else in the federal government

has to do. there is bipartisan agreement to get rid of that mandate. there would be changes in making retirees often to medicare -- opt into medicare. that burden was less on the postal service. another piece of the reform was making the delivery standards -- holding the usps more accountable to their delivery standards so if they say they are going to deliver experts and -- x percent in making it so that they can change their standards if they are not able to do that. host: charlotte in houston, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what has been your experience? caller: january 27, sent some certified mail, it is still in transit.

my hla wants to charge me $60 late charge. when i called the usps, they are going to have a case file. i still don't know where my money is. host: what did the postmaster general say about these delays? guest: he said it is unacceptable. they understand what is happening. they said they are not ok with it and they are doing everything they can to rectify the situation. i will add that he said they are on the verge of laying out this 10 year business plan. he said part of that plan is going to be slowing down the delivery windows to make it more in line with what is really happening. it's something that is local being delivered within two days, they will make that three to five days. it is not necessarily, it is not

making things less delayed, it is making the window such that it reflects the fact that mail is being delivered more slowly than they previously planned for. host: how can you tell lawmakers that the delays are due to the pandemic? guest: there is some truth to that. they have had a lot of workforce outages because of employees being sick or coming into contact with those who have been sick and thousands of usps employees have contracted covid-19 and tens of thousands have quarantined. there was also -- in their logistics network due to the pandemic. it did have an impact. his own reforms that he tried to make sure that trucks operate on a set schedule whether or not

the mail was on them. that had a big impact. he reverses that due to a court mandate. all of these factors have built up and the last factor was more and more e-commerce and packages are being shipped through the postal service, that is more labor-intensive. it takes a while to sort through those. it has caused everything else to slow down and this past holiday season, they really got flooded and things got backed up to historic levels. host: david, what has been your experience with the postal service? caller: the people i have known in the postal service are delightful. they don't make that much money. they make a decent living, not a really affluent living. my argument with dejoy is that he is brought a corporate culture to public service.

it is as if he was asking a police department to cut back until they made a profit. to me, it is despicable. he does not understand that these services are core to our civilization. without them, we don't function as a community. the mail should not be privatized. he has a conflict of interest in this regard. he has stock holdings in delivery services. it is really quite disgraceful that he is in that position at all. host: ok. eric katz? guest: a couple of things to point out. first of all, the caller described his pleasant experiences with the postal service. it is easy to forget because there has been so much controversy. it is the most trusted agency in all of government, something

like 90% approval rating among the american public. it is something that the average american enjoys interacting with and experiencing getting the mail, even if there are some frustrations associated with it. yes, there have been allegations of a conflict of interest with postmaster general dejoy because he came from a private sector where he had his own logistics company and a certain amount of contract that has been awarded to the company through the postal service. there is some merit stuff you want someone in that role who has experienced -- experience dealing with those sorts of issues. dejoy is the first postmaster general in many years who did not come internally. he did not have any direct

experience inside the postal service which some lawmakers and stakeholders found problematic. the third point about trying to operate with a corporate culture , dejoy has talked about that. he has a mandate from federal statute that usps should break even. it has not done that for about a dozen years. it has been losing money year after year, billions of dollars. he says he has a plan to get that back on track. others, such as this caller and many democrats and some republicans have faulted him for taking that to the extreme. it should be a public service, they say, and provide good service at an affordable rate

and the rest should do what you can under those constraints. host: what is he doing? what is his plan? guest: he is going to release his formal plan within the next couple of weeks. like i said, he is going to try to slow down service a little bit. he is going to, if necessary, raise prices. he has more authority to do that now. he said he does not want to if he gets other things in place. he is going to try to find ways to grow revenue. he has not specified precisely what that will look like. i imagine diving more into package business will be part of that. he is going to try to reduce turnover in his workforce. that will be something that can help save costs. he wants to change some of the operations of the agencies so

that they are spending less on overtime and spending less on paying their contractors who run their trucking routes. it is in the weeds. a lot of those routes, they have to run extra routes each day to make sure all of the mail gets out. he wants to smooth that process out so it is operating on a more set schedule. host: what is the agency's relationship with amazon? guest: amazon is a big customer for the postal service. they deliver a lot of packages. they do -- they have a contract with the company. they have special rates that amazon receives because they take care of some of the upfront work that usps would have to do in terms of sorting.

amazon is increasingly developing its own delivery networks. you might see out on the road, those amazon trucks that are making those deliveries or network deliveries on its own. that is part of the issue the usps is dealing with. they want to raise their prices so they can cover costs better, but they don't want to do it so quickly that they push amazon to ramp up their own delivery networks and cut usps out of the process altogether. host: henry, atwater, california. caller: my experience has been that the postal workers themselves are doing a great job. to their motto, they are trying to make deliveries in spite of, i think dejoy was put in there to wreck the postal service as a

public entity. what we need to do is, one thing is to add back in the postal bank that they ran for 70 years. it was profitable for all that time. i don't know the details of how this would be done, they should be the ones offering up internet service around the country. really, the internet is just an electronic means of doing mail, whether it is through mail order with physical forms decades ago, but now you go online. that is just a matter of means, not really essentially a different thing. you are still doing ordering through mail, getting your deliveries through mail. from what i have read, your guest said that dejoy has admitted to slowing down the postal service. he has slowed it down a lot. i do a lot of online ordering,

even from overseas and the u.s. postal service has slowed down a lot. their tracking system has started to fail. it used to be very accurate. host: ok i'm going to have eric katz jump in. guest: one thing that henry noted is that he is afraid that the postal soldiers -- postal service will be sold off and privatized in some way. that is something that stakeholders have been raising concerns about for a while, especially because early on in the trump administration, the president put out a proposal that would do exactly that. they later backtracked from that since they got a lot of backlash from people, realizing the american people want a public postal service. and dejoy has said that he has

no interest in privatizing and he will never have that on his watch. that is something to look out for, keep an eye on. internationally, there have been some examples of posts being privatized, but it does not look like that is on the immediate horizon in the u.s. host: stephen, topeka, kansas. caller: good morning. this is an interesting program. i'm going to stay on topic because i have opinions of mr. dejoy. my understanding is my experience of the postal service. i have an interest because my grandfather began working for the postal service right after world war i in 1919. my father began working with the postal service in 1946 after he returned from the south pacific. i may retired employee.

that is 102 years continuously of federal pay for salary. for everyone listening, thank you very much. i would say that my experience has been like everyone else. one thing that mr. katz might address is the regional distribution and that is where the hangup is. with covid, it is rampaging through these regional distribution centers and i am not sure how overtime is used but if it is not used, that is where the package ends up. one example, i am in topeka. i sent a letter to kansas city. it never got there. tracking is fine, but it disappears at the distribution centers. the whole system is by distribution centers and that is where the hangup is. there are other examples, but i will hang up and let others talk and i will be anxious to hear from mr. katz.

host: go ahead, eric katz. guest: there definitely were outbreaks at the distribution centers like the caller mentioned. i touched on that earlier. something like 10% of the usps workforce has contracted covid-19 and thousands of thousands more had to quarantine. there were concerns about overtime, that dejoy was trying to cut overtime. as far as we know, he never directly issued any sort of mandate to cut overtime. what happened was he said, let's issue these policies and they will result in less overtime. some facilities interpreted that as we have to cut overtime. we have not seen a big reduction in overtime. as far as the delays at the distribution centers, that has

been a big problem. dejoy said yesterday that during the busy season, during the holidays, there were packages outside piled up because they did not even have room for them anymore. that is how much the volume was impacting them. part of what he is talking about in terms of his plan, and i have mentioned this, modernizing some of their systems, these are i.t. systems and the physical sorting machines that they have that are decades-old, they are not really -- in some cases, they are not set up to handle this volume of packages. they were set up for a time where most of what the usps did was sort mail and now they are trying to adjust that to this new reality. they need some investment there to address those issues. host: jazmine in virginia.

tell us your story. caller: hi. i have had the worst experience with the postal service. i am glad you mentioned amazon. i am disabled. i had the task of having to move during the pandemic. my landlord took over his property because he moved into it and i had to move. i am disabled. the only place i could find was an apartment on the third floor. with that being said, it is a task for me to get up and down the stairs. i have to get most of my groceries and my medical supplies delivered. my postal carrier refuses to deliver my packages. i have complained. i ordered food from amazon. i always received one of those

slips saying that it is an oversized package. but it is not. it can be a small package. i ordered a cat bowl. it was a six by six box. they said it was an oversized package. i have complained, i have complained, i have complained. host: what is customer service line for the postal service -- what is customer service like for the postal service? guest: that is a very frustrating situation. we have all had not great experiences. people trust their letter carriers. you hear management talk about this a lot. that interaction with someone that they trust, that they know. they know the people in their neighborhood. they develop a relationship. it is something that helps give

this huge behemoth of an organization of faith to a lot of people. there are some frustrating experiences like this caller is talking about. generally, i think the letter carriers try to do what they can to accommodate people. they have very stringent routes that they have to run and timing that they have to meet. that is how their performance is evaluated. sometimes, due to no fault of their own, they have to take shortcuts. i cannot speak directly to this situation, of course. host: kelly in pittsburgh. caller: hi. one thing i never hear anyone talk about is that the post office is really a retail business. yet, i have lived in four states. i have been in retail for 25 years. one of the many things you

should do every day is balance out your drawer and take inventory of the items that you have as well. i have yet to meet or be at any single post office that i have ever been where they balance out the drawers. every business has theft. if you are not accounting for the money that is come in and balancing out your drawer to ensure that it matches your sales, that is ridiculous. to see people going from georgia drawer. -- to see people going from drawer to drawer. host: you're running short on time. eric katz, address her first point. guest: i am sure that there is some issues there.

the inspector general has audited these types of things and he will go in and investigate reports of malfeasance. there is certainly accountability within the postal service if these sorts of things pop up. i don't know the specifics of how they check their drawers and balance everything out at the end of every day. i would imagine that there is some process for that. host: terrell in texas. caller: thanks for taking my call. i appreciate it program. in 65 years of using the postal service, i have had one letter lost in all of that time. i have found that they will go to any small town, there is a post office in any small town. they have great service.

it is not cost very much to mail a letter, to send off a bill. it is really economical. the thing people forget is they make the postal service is unique, they make them pay ahead, pay forward into their retirement fund and into their legacy costs. they have to account for them and pay them ahead. they are constantly in the red because they are always having to take their money and put it toward their retirement fund and pay it ahead which no other business does. anybody that wants to privatize it, i suggest you look at what happened in texas with ercot. the electric reliability council of texas. in the time we needed them the most, they were the worst and they privatized it in 1995. they privatized it 1995 to 2002 with senate bill seven.

since they privatized it, it is worse. some things, some government services are too important to be turned over to just a for profit motive. that is what i have to say. thanks for taking my call. host: let me get in bill in north carolina. caller: yes, i just wanted to say but people were talking about earlier. the post office is a very good paying job from what i came from. the benefits are great. dejoy is doing a good job. where most of the money is spent is on grievances. you are talking about millions of millions of dollars, mostly for the city carriers. if the post office takes and does what they do with rural routes which is all the routes adjusted to 8 hours, and if there is anything over, they

suck it up and they need to do that with the city carriers too because that article 8 is where the post office pays millions of dollars out because you are -- because your management does not know how to control the overtime. if you get that done, that would save the post office a lot of money right there. host: you are a carrier? caller: yes. host: do you mind sharing how much you make? caller: normally about $60,000. with overtime, $98,000. host: ok. eric katz? guest: a couple of interesting points. there have definitely been concerns with the way that -- the organization is too spread out such that when headquarters in d.c. has a new policy, it takes too long to get that message out to the ranks.

there is a game that takes place. dejoy blamed that game of telephone's some of the problems that arise when he came into office last summer. i think what this caller is talking about with different approaches to overtime with the management, that that may be -- it is such a disparate organization throughout the country. on the last caller's note that t pre-funding and future retires health care. it requires billions of dollars of payments every year from the postal service into an account that will fund the retirees health care for years and years into the future. it is an unusual requirement and one that the postal service stopped making those payments several years ago but it still affects their balance sheet.

it turned what could be an ok financial situation into a much worse one. host: eric katz covers the postal service. you can follow his reporting. thank you. guest: it is great to be here. host: up next, we will talk about the minimum wage. the house is slated to vote tomorrow on the 1.9 trillion dollar covid-19 aid bill which includes a hike in the minimum wage to $15 an hour. you support or oppose it? lines for the minimum wage and business owners as well. we will get your calls in just a minute. ♪ >> sunday on cue and day, erica armstrong dunbar, history professor at rutgers university, talks about her book "she came

to slay." on the life of harriet tubman. >> we know that she made at least 13 trips to and from the eastern shore of maryland. that is one thing that people sort of either don't know or confuse. tubman was not running all over the south, emancipating people. no. she made specific, targeted trips to the state of maryland to rescue her family and her friends. so, we know that she touched the lives of and basically emancipated at least 60 to 70 people on at least 13 trips. >> eric armstrong dunbar, sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. >> washington journal continues. host: house and senate democrats are pushing for a hike in the minimum wage to $15 an hour.

they have included it in president biden's $1.9 trillion economic aid package. if you are for it, dial in at (202) 748-8000. if you are opposed, (202) 748-8001. minimum wage earners, your line this morning is (202) 748-8002. business owners, call in at (202) 748-8003. the chair of the senate budget committee, senator bernie sanders was on jimmy kim, talking about his push -- jimmy kimmel, talking about his push. >> how long have you been trying to get the minimum wage rest, federally -- race, federally? >> when i ran for president in 2016, i called her a $15 minimum wage. not a lot of people supported it. today, 61% of the american people are in support. >> i am surprised it is not higher.

i think back to when i was in high school and making minimum wage, working at a clothing score and a pizza place and it was $3.35 back then. and i was looking at some of the states and it is $7.25 in the year 2021. people are making seven dollars and $.25 -- $7.25 per hour. these are not high school student, these are adults. these are people with families. senator sanders: that is an important point to make. i have been all over this country and i, honest to god, can recall talking to working moms, raising children, trying to do it on $10.50 per hour and you can't do it. and a lot of people are working for less than that. they have to pay rent, they need to have all of the basic necessities of life. they need to feed their kids. and one of the great crises that they are facing is that so many

of our people in the richest country in the history of the world are literally struggling to put food on the table and we have to change that. $15 per hour over a four-year period is not a radical idea. if you make $15 per hour, you are not getting rich. but at least you have a shot to live with a minimum of dignity. you don't have to have all of the stress and pressure that is on you right now, trying to survive on starvation. host: take a look at the history of the minimum wage over the years. it was last raised in 2009 to $7.25. many republicans are opposed to not only the minimum wage, but overall this $1.9 trillion economic aid package. a senator was on the floor on tuesday and here is what he had to say. >> let's look at the things the democrats support. the bill includes a mandate from washington, d.c. to double the minimum wage.

it has nothing to do with coronavirus. in fact, it would make things worse. the congressional budget office took a look at this and said what would the impact be on the economy and they say that 1.4 million people who have their jobs right now would lose their jobs. -- lose their jobs if the federal government came in with a mandate to double the minimum wage. it is not a stimulus. according to one report, the new washington mandate would also raise the cost of childcare by about 21%. how is that going to work for hard-working families who are trying to get back to work with coronavirus and need daycare for their children? with schools closed in so many locations across the country, that is the last thing that working families need. an increase in the cost. -- an increase in the cost to provide care for children. host: the senator from wyoming, you can go to cbo. quote -- cbo.org.

they note that there would be a job loss in 2025. they also note that it would raise 900,000 americans out of poverty. craig in washington, -- craig and washington, d.c., what do you think? caller: yes. seven dollars 25% -- $7.25 per hour is something a kid should make. as a grown-up, how can you afford to pay rent? you can't pay rent with that kind of money. you have to get back and forth to work. you have to eat something. you just can't do it. you can't buy you a car or nothing. what can you do with $7.25? my whole point is that is a child lives with a parent type of money. maybe he can buy his own clothes or something. for a grown-up, there is no way in the world you can live out here with seven dollars .5 since

per hour. -- $7.25 per hour. host: bertha in richmond, virginia, you say yes to raising the min wage. caller: i agree with the person who just got off line. it is disgusting that america -- my daughter i will use as an example, she has one child. she is only getting $11.59 per hour. her rent is almost $900 a month. her childcare is $75 per month. she gets a measly $60 for child support. a month. you total all of that and by the time she pays her car note, her rent, her gas, or water -- her water, she does get assistance

for the baby. as far as putting food on the table, you know who puts it on the table for her? me. it's no way in the world that you can make it. republicans crying about $15 per hour, i guarantee you they wouldn't work for $7.85 per hour. they wouldn't work for $11 per hour. it is so disgusting. i look at your show all the time . i have seen where they were against the $1400 that was given out. they are so against $1400. how much money did they get from that stimulus? the way i understand it, they got over $1 million apiece. host: who is they? caller: i want to understand why is it so bad for $15 per hour? yes, we have covid. that will not stop people.

if she can't make that $900 per month rent, they will put her out. host: understood. senator tom cotton and mitt romney, they are proposing $10 minimum wage hikes with a mandatory e-verify. >> these are difficult times for a lot of families. for a lot of working families, particularly those entering the workforce or those in low-wage jobs, not having had an increase in the minimum wage at the federal level for over 10 years does not make a lot of sense. so, along with senator tom cotton, we propose raising the minimum wage over four years to $10 per hour. after that, to have it rise with inflation. that is a lot better than the $15 plan the democrats are tallying because that $15 plan would be a huge burden for

businesses going from $7.25 to $15, that would be backbreaking. it would cost 1.3 million jobs. that is the wrong way to go. our plan is something small businesses can live with and hopefully improve the lives of our citizens. at the same time, we are marrying that with the provision to make sure people cannot come into the country illegally and take away jobs from americans. that is the plan to have a mandatory e-verify system that penalizes employers who hire people that are illegal when the employer has not checked the federal database to make sure if they are legal or not. hopefully it will get some cash we will get some traction with that and keep the democrats from doing something naughty with their $15 plan -- nutty with their $15 plan. host: we are asking you do you oppose, or support the democrats

efforts to raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour. it would be over four years that this would happen. democrats are using the process known as reconciliation that allows them to get it passed in the senate with 50 votes, rather than the normal 60 votes. reconciliation, because they are using this process, provisions in the bill, including minimum wage could be problematic if they were to have an impact on the budget deficit outside of the window of this legislation. so, we are awaiting today on the senate parliamentarian to rule whether or not minimum wage and other provisions are allowed under this reconciliation process. the hill is reporting this morning that the president chief of staff, ron klain says kamala harris would not overrule the

parliamentarian on minimum wage increases. also from on that point, a california democrat says the constitution gives the president the power to decide whether the $15 minimum wage can pastor recommend it -- reconciliation. -- can pass through reconciliation. do not let anyone tell you that we did not have the power to pass the $15 wage. steve, you make the minimum wage in north charleston, south carolina. what do you do for a living? caller: this question about yes or no for the minimum wage, i don't know how that got on there. i completely agree with e-verify and i think the only way to get past is -- get it passed is reconciliation. i understand both -- argument on both sides of this issue. this should be regional, based

on the cost of living index. the spending power of $15 in mississippi is a lot more than the spending power of $15 in los angeles. federal employees at the same jobs make less in mississippi than they do in california. this is something my son got caught up in. i think it will reduce the incentive and hurt some employees with labor-intensive jobs. let's say a roofers boss in south florida works in 95 degree heat and in 95% humidity and says i got paid $15 per hour and he says you have to pay us more than that, i can make that in mcdonald's and i am sweating my life away, you will have to do better than that. guess what? you will have to pay him more. -- them more. that will be a name change or. i don't know -- greta -- i don't

know if you are a w-2 employee or an independent contractor. my tent -- my son was making big money and i used to help him with his taxes. he said i need you to help me with taxes and he hands me a 1099. i said patrick, we have to take out your taxes, medicare and social security. he did not have to pay health insurance. you were hired as an independent contractor. i wonder the legality of this situation. maybe somebody could weigh in on that. host: he was paying both social security and medicare. caller: he hands me his 1099. we had to go back and visit the south carolina tax office and said this was unintentional.

he got duped by his employer in south florida. all of a sudden, he had to pay 14% and that screwed us out of 7%. he had to pay the federal and state back taxes. employers can get resourceful. we have to be careful how we do this. host: for economic news, young finance reports that the bureau of labor statistics announced another 730,000 americans filed for new unemployment claims. this comes as we said the house will vote tomorrow on the 1.9 trillion dollar economic aid package, which includes an enhancement to unemployment that benefits -- with benefits of $400. you can watch the debate tomorrow on c-span. bernie sanders is holding a hearing in 15 minutes on capitol hill before the senate budget committee about this issue of wages.

he tweets the family that owns walmart is worth more than $200 billion. the emily that owns mcdonald's received $18 million in compensation in 2019. he will hear from workers today, one from walmart and one from mcdonald's. you can watch it on our website. also happening on capitol hill, a hearing about the january 6 insurrection. you can listen without c-span radio app as well. members on the house side of the subcommittee with jurisdiction will hear from the acting house sergeant of arms and the acting capitol police chief at this hearing. a reporter from cnn is tweeting senator chris coons said to john berman that the january 6 commission, something democrats want to set up to investigate what happened on that day, should be evenly divided.

a break from policies position, the speaker. the leaders of the 9/11 commission set part of why it was so successful was that it was even. it was balanced, he told cnn. we will hear from the speaker later this morning at 10:45 a.m. eastern time. you can watch that on our website, c-span.org. john is a business owner in the nation's capital, what do you think the minimum wage could do? caller: the last guy who spoke about the upward pressure on the entire system with the roofing example, say somebody started at seven dollars 25 since per hour eight years ago and got a one dollar -- $7.25 per year -- per hour eight years ago and got a one dollar rage per year, now your best people -- raise per year, now your best people will excite more money because they have been loyal. if you can't give them 22, 23,

$25 per hour, they will be disgruntled and there is nothing that will take down a business faster than a bunch of disgruntled workers. it will be a disaster. host: ernestine in oak hill, west virginia, you say no. caller: yes, i do. i believe it would put of -- put a lot of mom-and-pop businesses out of work because they would not be able to pay the $15 per hour to all of their employees. so, there would be people who would not be working and out of jobs if there were $15 per hour, so that they would be paying unemployment or welfare or whatever for those people who were unemployed. i am against it because of that. there would be less employed employees or people in the united states. host: you will be interested in

the senator from south dakota's between. he said i started working at a restaurant for one dollar part -- one dollar per hour, slowly moving up to six dollars per hour. mandating a $15 minimum wage would put many of them out of business. george in owing mills, maryland, you say yes. why? caller: i say yes because if you think in terms of equilibrium, equilibrium is related to the cost of good souls and the cost of wages. they are determined because those two items are seeking to be equal in some ways. as it relates to how that is expressed, yes, costs would increase. you have people working two jobs to meet certain jobs of things they have to purchase. as it relates to increasing that minimum per hour, i think with

the senator talking about what he was making, considering inflation, he was making 23, 20 four dollars per hour -- $23, $24 per hour. this gentleman was making a decent wage. if you look at how much unemployment was given in the first stimulus, that equaled $600. that is $15 per hour. to tie and impact the disinformation the average american has to contend with, especially coming from capitol hill, i am appreciative of this program. it gives people an opportunity to express themselves. you have to deal with the disinformation because the congressman from florida was not totally correct in what he was saying. yes, you will have a cost to deal with but we are talking about equilibrium. the theory of wages supports that. it is a battle -- things are out

of equilibrium. that is what i am trying to say. host: let me ask you this or post this to you. if that congressman was on another network, on a cable show, he would say those comments and you would not be able to call up. that is what makes this program unique and unlike anything else. caller: i said i appreciate the program. i am glad, i am happy for c-span. host: i'm just pointing out the difference that you said you have to battle the disinformation, that is why we allow you to call in to tell -- to challenge the guests we have on here and share your perspective. caller: let the calls keep coming. fantastic. host: tom winter is putting out nbc's reporting and cnn as well that donald trump's tax record and underlying tax documents are in the manhattan das plans -- hands.

danny frost confirms the subpoena for the documents was enforced on monday and the documents are now in their possession. roy in delaware, hi. what do you do for a living? caller: thank you for taking my call. i think the minimum wage could be $15 per hour but we are in a pandemic. businesses are going out of business. they need to hold back on that and let people start making $10 per hour. i would like to make $15 per hour myself. but, you can't when there is a pandemic and the country is in bad shape. host: all right. democrats are waiting on the senate pollard metairie and -- parliamentarian to rule on whether or not increasing the minimum wage can be included into this $1.9 trillion economic aid package. no news yet on that front.

the decision is expected today. even if lisbeth mcdonagh -- elizabeth mcdonagh allows it to be included, there is trouble with the 50-50 senate. senator joe mansion of west virginia has said he is opposed to the idea of $15 per hour and would like to set it at $11 per hour and index it to inflation. erica warner, who covers capitol hill as this tweet. liberals want senate democrats to try to overrule the parliamentarian if she finds against minimum wage. ron klain said on msnbc that they would not. also, they likely would not have the votes. manchin has said he would not support this. we will see what happens if democrats, led by chuck schumer, agrees with senator joe man

chin to put it at $11 per hour. in texas, you say yes. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think yes. it does not necessarily bother me to double much. i am actually a part-time janitor. but, i will say this. what concerns me -- however i see both sides of the argument -- what concerns me is about politicians who support raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour, i don't hear much advocacy about accountability on our part. i would love to work and make $15 for every hour that i work with somebody. to be honest with you, $15 is still less.

$15 is still undervalued. i feel like for a democrat, i feel like it is them spitting in our face and calling it rain. i feel like it is our response ability to make more money if that's what i want to do. host: you are a part-time janitor, the minimum wage in texas is $7.25 per hour. how much do you make if you don't mind telling us? caller: i make $11 per hour. i am still dependent on someone else at the end of the day, which is the more alarming fact. at the end of the day, i could lose any job. i just feel like at the end of the day, it is my responsibility to position myself to make more money if that is what i truly want.

-- just because they feel like it would make me feel better is not helping. host: how do you make ends meet if you are working part time? caller: i am married. my wife also has a business. she also -- i mean it is not much -- but -- and i also receive unemployment at the moment. so, i kind of make ends meet with that. i could be doing better to be honest with you. as much -- as tragic as the situation has been over the past 1.5 years, i could have been making better decisions with my finances. i feel like we don't get that advocacy from politicians. that is important. just giving us money, if we are not educated on how to use it, the money is just going to go back to them anyway. we are just going to spend it,

we are going to get taxed and it will end up back in the government's hands anyway. no democrats are informing us on how to keep our money and educating us. host: we heard your point. if you want to look at where the minimum wage is in your stay, you can go to pay court.com. several states are at $7.25. texas, utah, virginia, wisconsin , other states include oklahoma, north dakota, north carolina, new hampshire, alabama, kentucky, kansas, iowa, indiana, all at $7.25. there are states that are much higher than that, reaching $12 per hour in maine, $12.75 in massachusetts. let's hear from jean in new orleans. what do you make? caller: thank you for taking my call. i am retired. so, i make about $6,000 per

month. i was a union carpenter for 35 years. i started out at $15 per hour as an apprentice. that was 35 years ago. when i retired, i was making $45 per hour. $15 as a starting place is not bad in my opinion. it's not great but you work toward your goals. people go into business because they don't want to work for seven dollars per hour. they want a better life. the people that they hire, they should respect them enough to know they don't want to work for seven dollars per hour. if you are running a business from asus during -- a shoestring , it is just a recipe for disaster.

i believe the $15 per hour minimum wage is necessary. host: that is jean's thoughts in new orleans. the house is about to come in. if you can make it quick, we will squeeze you in. you say yes. albert in harvard city, california, can you make it quick? caller: i am for the $15 per hour. you look at our country. all through the south, they have suffered for low wages. the standard of living has always been lower in the east than the west coast. it is funny when a working guy gets a job, he gets in the rocking chair and rocks back and forth. all of a sudden, he thinks he is in the middle class. host: i have to run. the house is about to come