"washington journal" continues. host: this is henry olson, the senior fellow at the public policy center and washington post columnist. we called you to talk about the future of the republican party post trump. where does it stand? guest: it could be poised for a breakdown.

it remains divided over the legacy of president trump and that can turn into something that could break party into if it becomes bitter and acrimonious, but it could be something that strengthens the party if it brings both sides together. it is too early to say. host: we heard the former president talking at cpac in reference to being a uniter. guest: if president trump were willing to say i'm not going to run in 2024 but i am going to dedicate myself to build party around my legacy, that is not what he said. he said he is going to run and called out every person in the senate who called for impeachment and said they should be targeted. the idea that president trump

will be a uniter is something that should be confined to fantasyland, although many of us would wish that were not so. host: call in at (202) 748-8000 four democrats and four republicans, (202) 748-8001, independents (202) 748-8002. we will be talking to mr. olson appeared we will play a little bit of the speech and get you to comment on it. [video clip] mr. trump: the republican party is united. the only is a decision is between washington dc establishment political hacks. i think we have tremendous unity . when you look at the crowds that want your seat, they will take your seat into second. congratulations -- in two seconds.

congratulations on getting in. [applause] that is why i am announcing i will be working to elect strong, tough, and smart republican leaders. [applause] host: first he said the party was united it is establishment hacks versus everyone else. guest: the party is largely united. there was a poll released at the policy center that shows on questions of culture and american values, enormous unity among the voters. there is division about president trump's role going forward. everyone would be delighted if president trump treated himself to a well-deserved political retirement in his personal capacity and devoted himself to building party, but that is not is what is on the agenda. host: you called the speech the high watermark for him. can you elaborate? guest: trump right now is seen

largely as a hero by probably 50% to 60% of the republican party as a whole and disproportionately so by very conservative voters. you look at cpac, which attracts the very conservative among the republican party, and trump could only get 55% of those people willing to say they would vote for him in 2024. that suggests strong resistance to him being the actual leader of the party and i suspect as things go forward he will find those people being called political hacks much stronger with their own voters than he thinks. if trump can't beat everything one of them, it's going to expose him as somebody who can command a ferocious minority but not a majority and that will hasten his departure from the political scene. host: you said the speech from sunday was kind of two speeches

intertwined. can you elaborate on that? guest: the first half of the speech he was attacking democrats but attacking democrats and joe biden in particular, basically recounting his talking points from 2015 and 2016. the spent 10 minutes on immigration that could've been delivered anytime, including his mix -- his mischaracterizations of what they do when they get to the country. i called it like a greatest hits album with a once famous band. the second half of the speech was not scripted and that is when he went into republicans. -- when he lit into republicans. he focused on a perceived wrong done to him self rather than the help -- health of our republic and the republican party. host: a lot of people saw that

he said about the election again and again and his concerns about the results. how long does this play out in the party and what happens if it continues? guest: the president is obviously going to continue to try to make it a theme that the election was stolen and your representatives didn't defend you, my vice president didn't defend me and the court didn't defend me. the fact is the election was not stolen. what president trump believes is true is not true. republicans have never been treated to a representation of that. the more he refers to that the more the people who want to make trump a past figure rather than a future figure in the republican party are going to have to respond or else people in the middle who don't know

election analysis in and out, will believe him and they will follow him down a path where he will become the pied piper of the republican party leading the children off to disaster. host: if he involves himself in elections, what type of republicans are we possibly going to get moving forward and what does that do to shape the party and the results and how the party operates? guest: a lot depends on who the characters of the people he endorses and who they are. the angriest elements of the conservative and populist alliance are rallying around trump. if you have more people like that who are interested less in governing the country, that will be a problem and drive away the swing voters that republicans need to become a permanent

governing majority. what is important to note is the republican voter base is largely in agreement on a lot of things, and if the republican officeholders, the establishment starts to recognize that and stop resisting that and instead be effective fighters for that consensus, you will see a lot of people start to dessert trump as a person, because many republicans have held their nose and supported him despite his personal flaws because no other republican seemed to step up to the task. host: henry olson of the ethics and public policy center as the senior fellow. patrick in illinois on the democrat line, go ahead. caller: your guest is speaking a lot about x president -- ex

president trump. my focus is the republican party. i served four years in the united states air force to ensure everyone have the right to vote. with the state houses are doing, the republicans are trying to unite -- to deny blacks the right to vote because they feel whites are being disenfranchised. it is so frustrating that they feel they are disenfranchised and taking our vote to remedy their disenfranchised. host: let the guest respond. guest: there is no effort to remove the black vote from people,. full stop, period. you can vote without -- you can

vote and that is what we did will be installed voter registration. anyone who wants to vote in this country can vote and in virtually every state will be able to vote by mail there is no effort by republicans to suppress minority votes, period. that is a lie. host: now to the republican line. caller: i am a veteran, i was for our former president. i just wish they would get together with the 7 million people who voted for our -- 70 million people who voted -- the

7 million people who voted for our president. i voted for george bush. he started wars. i feel somewhat guilty because i voted for him. when we voted for people we didn't inc. who we were voting for -- we didn't think who we were voting for. when the guys get killed over there, somebody is responsible and the voters are somewhat responsible. i just hope the american people wake up. host: thanks. guest: i think president trump did a number of things that were good. if you could put his platform and policies on the ballot without him, virtually all

republicans would be enthusiastic about that. with respect to the wars, that is one of the things republican leaders in washington need to understand that just because we have a strong military doesn't mean it needs to be used in every incident. there are cases where they are deployed in areas that are at best tertiary to american security and we need to rethink not our involvement with the manner in which our troops are deployed and put fewer of them in harm's way. host: there is a column in the "washington times," taking a look at president trump influence on the party talking about the issues he championed, the wall, america first. they say he single-handedly drag the republican party out of the clutches of the donor class who despise the voters. mr. trump redefined the party.

guest: it was very clear in 2015 and 2016 that the republican elected elites and the donor elites were out of step with where republican voters and swing voters were. that is why donald trump on the nomination because he was the only person speaking to the issues he cared about as opposed to the issues a few people in think tanks mine or in elite circles were talking about. donald trump deserves credit for that. he made the party wake up and take a look and see what was going on outside the rivers of the potomac and the hudson. he deserves credit for that and hopefully the party has used those years wisely and will rededicate its efforts to talking about solving the problems the people want solved rather than the problems that the elites think need solved. host: in wisconsin, on the

democrat line, michelle. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to comment on the fact that ex president trump used hate and racism and violence and i just don't think that is the standing of the republican party in the past. what i see here is a lot of people flying flags along with trump flags and that tells me they promote racism. he has divided the party in ways i have never seen. i am 61 years old and even though i am a democrat, the republican party used to stand for things that were good for people. all he has done is divide the republican party and hate and racism in this country, more so than it has ever existed. i think that is a very sad

thing. host: we will let our guest respond. guest: the future of the republican party needs to repudiate continually racism. it is shameful that people have not stepped up to the plate on that more than they should, but i think they will do that in the next few years and you will see the republican voter base be what it used to be, one dedicated for an inclusive america, differences with democrats over how to achieve it, but that is still where republican voters are and the next nominee will make that crystal clear. host: you wrote a recent column taking a look at the north carolina republican marjorie taylor greene. what case study does she served with the american -- with the party? guest: i was early on the stop

marjorie taylor greene bandwagon . she is an example of the sort of republican who should not hold a leadership position. she is not interested in governing. she is interested in tweeting and is somebody who embraces conspiracy theories across the board and is not someone who is fit to be in congress or a party leader. there should be no doubt about that and that there should be a strong effort to remove her through the primary process and even through redistricting in order to reduce her chances of winning reelection to ensure she does not come back as a voice for republicans, even as a minority voice or a representative for her district. host: another example you can comment on, the senate minority leader, mitch mcconnell, strong words on the senate floor about mr. trump's role on january 6 and yet turning around saying he would vote for him again should

he decide to run. guest: it was simply a statement that he will vote for the nominee of the party. it is quite clear mitch mcconnell does not want donald trump to be the nominee in 2024, but mitch o'connell works best when he works quietly -- mitch mcconnell works best when he works quietly and he wants to make sure a party not including trump emerges. that is how we can reconcile those statements. host: who has the potential to emerge if it is not going to be the former president? guest: i think there are a lot of people who have the potential to emerge. the second-place finisher in the cpac straw poll, governor ron desantis, is currently the hot topic in insiders. he is somebody who has a sophisticated demeanor but also one who is not afraid to mix it up with the press.

conservative but not excessively so. over the next few months, he is one percent people will be taking a look at. people will look at marco rubio, tom cotton, former vice president pence, ted cruz, kristi noem. there are others who will put themselves forward and will have their day in the sun and we will see how they do. host: don is in traverse city, michigan, independent line. caller: the republicans have a bad problem with getting rid of democratic processes. democrats have a 121 page platform and there is a platform of committees participating. they are not doing a democratic process. they don't seem to understand it.

when you look at the insurrection, that was a rejection of the democratic process. if we don't watch out, we are not going to have that democratic process available to us pretty soon. guest: i would have liked to seen a real party platform and not simply a blank sheet. it is quite clear what republicans believe. they talk about it on the floor of the senate, house, from state houses whether in the legislature or the governor's office. republicans believe in a strong america, strong national defense, they believe in the priority of the family and creating safe living conditions. they believe largely in a free market economy with limited and targeted interventions for people who need it. i think republicans believe in the democratic process. too many were fed the lie that the democratic process was corrupted in 2020 and that is

something republicans need to combat and reorient the understanding of the voter base, because they have been lied to by president trump and his minions on that question. host: from silver string -- from silver spring, maryland. caller: good morning. i believe the headliner at cpap should have been vice president mike pence, former vice president mike pence. i saw him as the republican hero on january 6. he came back after the riot with all of the senators and representatives and continued the process of counting the electoral votes. it was a solemn ceremony. he had the gravitas of being a leader. i felt so proud of being an america.

i love america. all the world saw him. he should be the hero. at that moment, i am a lifelong democrat, i would have voted for him. to me he was a human being, a respectful human being respecting all of our votes. so he should be the person who should have been at cpac. host: that is rachel. guest: i think the vice president will recoup and reenter the political debate sometime this year. i think he will be a marvelous person with a good voice to hear and i really welcome your comment. i think he did show remarkable courage in doing his duty and in showing courage in bringing back the senate in order to do their duty at a time when emotions ran very high. i hope he does not shy away from talking about his role in that and i hope he is willing to

openly confront his boss when inevitably his boss taunts and attacks him for those actions which are courageous and that he stands up to president trump in public. host: because we are talking about unity, president biden said he would work on those issues. what do think has bared out in the weeks since he has been in office? guest: a lot of talk on unity but no action. they won the election to some extent, that is understandable, but it is not something where president ayden has been willing to -- president biden has been willing to expend any capital to bring that about. it will be quite clear by the end of april or may that president biden's words of unity really mean we are supposed to surrender and agree with the democratic party rather than something that treats the

republicans and the publican party as serious. host: alexandria, minnesota, republican line. go ahead. caller: before the election, john kerry was sitting around and said iran we have a plan to get this guy out of office. that was proof right there they were going to rig the election. you only need one brain cell to know this election was rigged. host: before we go, besides that , why are you convinced the election was rigged? he dropped. guest: to quote ronald reagan or paraphrase, is not that he is so wrong, is is that so much he thinks he knows isn't so. the election was not rigged. i can explain very clearly why it was not rigged.

it was a fair and free election that showed very similar returns, whether you want to say blue state, red say -- red state, this was an election that was free, fair, not free of irregularities, but president trump. host: richard in new york, you have 30 seconds. caller: -- richard in new york? caller: hello. i appreciate what you are saying about trump. i appreciate what he did on iran, israel, the middle east. but his time was over. it was time for him to go and we cannot say what he would have done if he had been reelected. i think those who weep for his departure missed the point. we should thank him for what he

did, but his time was over and let him move on. he will not be a uniter of the republican or the country. host: thank you, richard. mr. olson? guest: there'll be a lot of people saying those same sentiments over the next few years. host: harry olson is the senior fellow at the ethics and public policy center. he writes a column also for the washington