they are there to solve that social problem. but because they have their own money they can be there from generation to generation. announcer: sarah horwitz, tonight on "afterwards" on book tv on c-span2. you can listen to every one of these as a podcast as well. ♪ at westminster college in. fulton, missouri. timothy riley joins us now at westminster college. good morning. guest: good morning. thank you for having me on. host: we are not only here on washington journal but we are simulcasting on american history tv on c-span3 right now. timothy, explain to us what winston churchill was doing in fulton, missouri on march 5, 1946. guest: 75 years ago, it is a

question we get asked every day. why in the world what winston churchill visit westminster college in central missouri in the heart of america? i guess the simple answer is the college asked him to come, but the longer answer is more complicated. we have to take you back to the end of world war ii. there was ve day in europe in may 1945. the allies had been victorious. things were looking good for churchill, for harry truman, and for the other big three in the alliance, stalin. they had won the war. shortly after there was an election in britain and churchill's party lost the election. suddenly, arguably the most

recognizable figure in the world is without a job. he is no longer prime minister and he is by all accounts somewhat taken aback, despondent, somewhat depressed. his wife famously said, "winston, this is a blessing in disguise." to which he replied, "it is very effectively disguised." although he is not in the greatest of spirits it was on the heels of that loss that he received an invitation from westminster college where we are broadcasting from today. the president of the college said, i would like you to come and deliver the lecture. i am convinced this would have been given to a secretary and churchill would say, i cannot possibly come but thank them. he was usually polite and refusals.

but there was a handwritten note on the bottom of the invitation that said, this is a wonderful school in my home state. if you come, i will introduce you. hope you can do it, harry truman. when the president signed that postscript churchill immediately took notice and new he would be back on the world stage if he had president truman next to him on a platform. i am not sure churchill knew where westminster college was when he accepted, but truman's endorsement of that notation was really the trick that did it. churchill began plans in october, november to travel the united states for several weeks in miami. very smart man. in january of 1946 spent some weeks in miami relaxing, painting, handcrafting the "iron curntain" speech. the college asked but they had

help from the president. he appealed to churchill as well. host: we talked about this a little bit, but tell us what winston churchill's political status was in the u.k. at that time? his party had been voted out of power. does that mean he had no political influence? the speech was just his opinion only? guest: he said as much from the platform here. he said what you see is what you get. he said that famously from the stage of fulton although he was clever. he knew that what you saw was a man who is the leader of the opposition party in britain next to the president of united states. seldom does that happen when you see the president invite the leader of the opposition party to speak. churchill knew he was in the right spot and even though he somewhat downplayed his position and said, i am here as a private

citizen, the world know. and certainly churchill himself knew his stature and his power of observation -- he had more to say. the "iron curntain" speech was his calling card to have a world stage, a platform, ironically in a small town in the middle of missouri and a hard time in america. so churchill knew what he was doing when he was saying those words. host: as you said it became known as the "iron curntain" speech. at that point what was the state of the cold war? where were america and the soviet union at that point? guest: it is complicated. you have to remember that the soviet union were our allies in world war ii. they suffered greatly. millions of casualties on the

soviet side. in the general sense the americans and, to a degree winston churchill, appreciated the russian people for the sacrifice they made. without the soviets the war would not have been one. it was a necessary alliance in the second world war, but it began at the alta conference with fdr. maybe even earlier with the big three at the tehran conference. there was a fracture in the alliance in the postwar outlook was such -- who was going to be in control of the eastern european countries? churchill for instance wanted to defend poland and other countries, thinking it should be a sovereign state.

i think joseph stalin had other plans. churchill began to see this and after the victory in europe and after the end of the world war, churchill notices the americans, the british, went home. they sent troops back to england, they sent troops back to the states. joseph stalin's armies for the most part stayed put and they did not retreat east back to moscow. this is what churchill called the iron curtain which descended across the continent. churchill sees this and warns the world that without proper buttress to counter that soviet threat the next threat could be soviet communism and expansion of their philosophies into europe. that was the crux of churchill's message to the soviets here at westminster college. host: let me remind our viewers

that we are talking today about winston churchill's "iron curntain" speech. the 70 for the anniversary. we are going to open the phone lines for conversation about the 75th anniversary. you're going to open up regional lines. if you are in the eastern or central time zones, we want to hear from you at (202)-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, your number is (202)-748-8001. keep in mind you can always text us at (202)-748-8003 and we are always reading on social media on twitter @c-spanwj and facebook at facebook.com/c-span. timothy, remind our viewers what were some of the other key things in the early days of the cold war. guest: well, you have to start

with the end of world war ii with victory in europe day, which churchill was part of, and then vj day, the victory over japan. churchill was no longer prime minister by that time and harry truman had the big decision to make with the atomic bombs at hiroshima and nagasaki. after that one of the next major chapters was the "iron curntain" speech 75 years ago. after that you will see the marshall plan that unfolded as part of the cold war. some of the ideas on how to construct europe after the war came out of that speech but in 1946 he was emboldened to make another speech where he called for a united states of europe.

he set into action many of the things that are outlined in the marshall plan. after the "iron curtain" speech many things came to pass in the soviet expansion was real. the west responded very much following churchill's playbook with the berlin airlift after the berlin blockade. truman's plan came into be which was a blueprint taken from churchill's playbook and it did inspire the west to ultimately wage their tactics and the cold war for decades to come. host: let's talk about the specifics from churchill's speech. i am going to play a piece of his march 5, 1946 speech where churchill is talking about his concerns about the policy of

appeasement when it comes to soviet russia. here is that part. [video clip] >> this is certainly not the liberated europe we fought to build up. nor does it contain the essentials. twice the united states has defended several millions of his young men across the atlantic defined the war. but now war can find any nation wherever it made well. between desk and dawn -- dusk and dawn. what they desire is the fruits of war and the expansion of their power and doctrine. oh, but what we have to consider here today while time remains is the permanent prevention of war and the establishment of conditions of freedom and democracy as rapidly as possible in all countries.

our difficulties and dangers will not be removed by closing our eyes to them. they will not be removed by mere waiting to see what happens nor will they be removed by policy of appeasement. host: what was churchill actually asking the u.s. to do at that point? guest: it is very telling that a great section of the speech -- the entire speech is about 15 minutes -- but that is one of the most import sections. churchill is saying clearly that he does not think the soviets desire war. he is not suggesting that, but the fruits of war and the expansion of their doctrines and powers. that is the threat that churchill warns about. he said in order to do something about it the west, namely the anglo-american relationship of britain and the united states, need to work together and take

this head-on. not appease -- he used the word "appeasement" which was a conscious word choice. he knew full well the policy of appeasement that imploded prior to the second world war was one that did not work out well. later he says that there never was a war, the second world war, that could've have been prevented like the last one. he said it ravaged great areas of europe and he said the second world war could have been prevented without the firing of a single shot. but no one would listen to churchill in the 1930's. he says here in fulton that, ladies and gentlemen, we must not let that happen again. we being the west, united states

and britain as he said, need to stand firm and not appease the soviets. he feared if he did, then those expanded doctrines of communism would creep westward in the world will be a far different place. this is churchill's backstop against potential soviet expansion. host: let's let some of our viewers join in on the conversation about the 75th anniversary of winston churchill's "iron curtain" speech. let's start with david calling from texas. david, good morning. caller: good morning. great speech although you would think churchill would have certainly known what stalin is going to be up to. also, as far as stalin being an ally, he was allied with germany before he was allied with us. russia and germany invaded poland and russia had the

nonaggression pact with germany which surprised the world. and russia provided the staging and training grounds for german military forces when they were in the process of violating the versailles treaty. that is how they got to organize forces. none of this should have been a surprise. written in europe was the only country that had an army left -- britain and europe was the only country that had an army left. america resisted. that is the same thing we are doing now. churchill, he made a lot of mistakes during world war i. he was in charge of the charge in gallipoli that was one of the most monstrous disasters. he was up and down as far as that was going on. at the end of world war ii he was shocked he was thrown out of office, but britain was on its way to socialism. when people want to

compare socialism to venezuela, you are wrong. look at britain with margaret thatcher. that is the benchmark. i admire churchill's precedents in 1938 and 1939. i just finished a book on german bankers which the banking and finance had so much to do with politics. they were involved in the versailles treaty on both sides. both jewish bankers -- they walked away from the treaty because they knew the germans were just going to lead to another war. they knew the germans could not afford it and the nazis used the fact they were even there as proof that the jewish bank was responsible for germany's plight and what they used as the excuse for what they did to the jews. one last thing if i could please get it in, there did not have to be a holocaust.

again, i am finishing up "warbird" and the germans would have been happy for the jews to have been ransomed out their plans to get them out. the united states refused to raise its limit on letting jews into this country above 25,000. they could not get them out. u.k. did some of the same things. they were stealing all their money before they let them out anyway so they were going to get their wealth and they would not have to get their hands dirty. after kristallnacht enacted 38, that was over with. host: go ahead and responded, timothy. guest: there is a lot to unpack. first of all, your attitude about churchill and communism is correct. churchill certainly knew, and early on, was not a fan of

bolshevism and communism. the alliance with the soviets was a necessary one. it was a repositioning of forces. there was no way the allies from britain could have done it alone. churchill warned president roosevelt to send materials and the soviets got a better deal than britain did. churchill knew that but he needed help. he was standing alone in 1939, 1940 as germany was swallowing up pieces of europe. all of europe for that matter. when it became necessary to form an alliance with the soviets he did so by matter of necessity. churchill was a shrewd politician and geopolitics was the arena he loved to play in and was very effective in.

he made that decision out of necessity really and ultimately it was the right decision. but he knew and that is coming back to the "iron curtain" speech. once the war was over they needed to go back and deal with the soviets and, in large measure, that is what the speech is about. it is about standing up to the soviets but not alone. forming an anglo-american reliance or special relationship he called it. only that relationship and the quote you played earlier, the expansion of democracy, liberty, and freedom, that the two countries have long shared that churchill says in the magna carta and bill of rights and he says in the speech reach their highest manifestation, the declaration of independence. these are the values the

countries together need to save and stand up. this is what he is looking for in the iron curtain" speech. host: what was his relationship with stalin? we know he had a long-term relationship with president roosevelt. what was his relationship with president truman? guest: [laughs] by the time of the "iron curtain" speech -- this was the last straw. stalin was livid at the speech in fulton. he said quite clearly it was warmongering. it was a declaration of war. prior to that churchill had been somewhat polite to stalin. he would send greetings and said he was a great man, may be his ego a little bit, but stalin knew full well churchill was coming after his ideology. the "iron curtain" speech was

more than a warning shot to the soviet union. as far as his relationship with harry truman, that is a fascinating relationship. the men really did not know one another when they first met right after the end of the war. churchill goes to potsdam and not quite knowing what you expected harry truman. he knew roosevelt very well, but truman was this new person from the middle west. i don't think churchill had high expectations until truman started to speak and then he realized that truman was the right man for the job. they really forged their relationship on the train ride from washington to missouri. on the way to the speech.

they rode the overnight train. there is a bit of poker diplomacy. they played cards and shared -- churchill shared early drafts of the speech with harry truman who said, i think this is going to create quite the stir, but i think you are onto something. after the speech truman distanced himself and, uncharacteristically, said i had not seen the speech in advance. eleanor roosevelt was livid with the speech. she thought it was a threat to the alliance that her husband and churchill had started. truman distanced himself immediately after. in the end truman had great affection for churchill's words and used the speech in many ways as the blueprint for the truman doctrine that was the united

states recipe for waging the cold war. host: let's talk declarant calling from east lansing, michigan. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. guest: good morning. caller: i have been inspired upon hearing more about the speech that i never really realized that was given. i have just been receiving snippets of the speeches he gave. i think he is one of the greatest people in history. one of the greatest that lived and i hate to say it, but we could be speaking german or japanese if it were not for people like him. i feel like he does not get enough credit. thank you for enlightening me and i will find out as much as i can about the gentleman. thank you. guest: thank you for calling in.

churchill's speech resonates today. he had a vision and could see a global landscape like few leaders can. it is worth studying and i am glad we had the chance to talk about him at america's national churchill museum everyday, but certainly with milestone anniversaries like the one we are commemorating. host: like you said earlier, the speech is become known as the "iron curtain" speech. where did he come up with the term? guest: iron curtain was a 19th-century victorian era steel curtain used in the theater. it was at fire safety measure.

the iron curtain would fall so the fire would not engulf the entire theater. it was a protection measure. it was really an antique phrase, but in referring to an iron curtain for soviet expansion, the germans used it first. churchill used it in correspondence with american officials before he used it in this speech. it wasn't a new phrase but he did not coin the phrase iron, curtain, but he gave it value in the speech in fulton. it became recognized with that. but as you mentioned churchill's own title for the speech was sinews of peace. the president of westminster college wrote to winston churchill in february, i believe

valentine's day, asking winston, what will the title of your speech be? we are looking to promote it, looking to print the programs and so forth, taking care of details, and we would like to know what the title will be. churchill replied to the college say he was not sure. something like world peace. the programs from the day simply say, winston churchill, world peace. that was the title. churchill decided on the term sinews of peace the night before. we have in the archives the near final draft of the speech with the handwritten notes that churchill -- written by his secretary. he was dictating to his secretary who is taking the last-minute changes and she writes, inserts a the paragraph that says,

sinews of peace. that is a last-minute rhetorical phrase and sinews are things that make us stronger. he is talking about the anglo-american special relationship. that strength would ensure and protect the peace to come. in some ways, they said he was a warmonger, but that is not what he was suggesting. he was suggesting military alliance through strength that would preserve the peace. that is what the message was about. host: we want to remind everyone we are talking about the 75th anniversary of winston churchill's "iron curtain" speech and broadcasting on "washington journal" and american history tv on c-span3. i want to bring to you another

bit of that speech from winston churchill from march 5, 1946 where he is making connections between 1946 and the years that preceded world war ii. here is that part of the speech. [video clip] >> there never was a war in history easier to prevent by timely action than the one that just desolated such great areas. it could have been prevented, in my belief, without the firing of a single shot and germany might be honest today. no one would listen. one by one we were sucked into the awful world. surely, ladies and gentlemen, i put it to you. we must not let that happen again. [applause] host: divided winston churchill want to make these connections to the 1930's and the years leading up to world war ii?

guest: that is a great part of the speech not only for winston's words but the public reaction. if you can hear it, the 2700 people gathered in the gymnasium immediately burst into applause. that sentiment was a really good gauge of public reaction and he is saying clearly that last time, referring to the rise of hitler, that in order to prevent the next great tyranny -- early in the speech he says there are two marauders, war and tyranny. that was the more abstract notion. tyranny was known because of hitler, but he was saying the next tyrant could be soviet

russia. he is very clearly saying that clip that no one will listen. surely we cannot let that happen again. winston churchill is uniquely qualified to say those words. perhaps no one on the plan at the time would've had the gravitas because he was right. he was crying aloud to his countrymen as he says in the speech and no one would listen last time. and here he is on the world stage with the president of the united states at his side saying this is the next threat. we cannot let it happen again. those words carried great weight when churchill said them. host: we go to dennis: from dennis calling from connecticut. caller: thank you for taking my call. everyone agrees he had a great

geopolitical vision. is it possible he actually foresaw the iron curtain years before? maybe two or three years before when he recommended that the allies established a front through greece and eastern europe to actually block the soviet army from overtaking eastern europe? as i recall the allies rejected that front. is that true? thanks. guest: i think the argument could be made that that is very true. in fact, in the "iron curtain" speech itself churchill takes credit for greece as being the birthplace of democracy and still being democratic, and said that his intercession earlier helped make that so. but there were other countries in other areas and regions that

were under threat. i think you are right. churchill using his impressions was thinking about this long before march 5, 1946. host: let's talk to carol calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. this question is outside the box. we are facing global instability because of the covid epidemic and the climate crisis. put yourself into winston churchill's shoes as he was a great believer in world stability and a visionary. if he were alive today, how would he approach the existential threats of pandemic and the climate crisis? thank you. guest: that is an excellent

question. and it is always dangerous to put yourself in winston churchill's shoes, let alone in his mind. he is no longer with us. the world is a different place. it really is hard to say what he would do or say in the current climate. however, he said famously, "the future is unknowable but the past can give you hope." i love that line. if you look at the past, we can be hopeful that churchill might have, first told it like it was. he was very frank with the british people and the second world war. there was a seemingly unsurmountable odds. he said this would be difficult. the dangers and difficulties will be true and will be

something we need to overcome. it won't be easy, churchill warned. however, he mobilized the english language and sent into battle and he gave the people hope. through his words he was honest and i think in terms of the current challenges, the new iron curtain if you will of today, perhaps the global pandemic and climate change, churchill would be honest and he would say, we have a problem. he was a big believer in science. he was one of the first great world leaders to have science advisors at his side. before and during the war, and after as well. i think he would've kept them close at hand in dealing with both climate change and the pandemic. he would have been up to the challenge.

he would have seen it. he would've told the people the truth and he would have acted with knowledge by experts and not tried to do it alone. , i think that i think that is how he might handle it. host: larry calling from minneapolis, minnesota. caller: good morning. thank you for being a guest today. it is a very interesting topic. my question relates to, you know, one man's idea of appeasement is another man's idea of real politics. we played the clip of churchill say we must not have appeasement. but britain went to war in world war ii based on a treaty with poland to guarantee

poland's independence. we all know that was basically quickly forgotten because it wasn't thought to be realistic once we got to 9045. -- 1945. the soviet union occupied more of europe than germany. i guess i would have to disagree that churchill is showing this strong, anti-appeasement stand in 1945. thank you. guest: i think it is clear however -- we talked about this

earlier -- that churchill knew of stalin's track record. he knew stalin ultimately was not someone he wanted to be friendly with. he had to be so during world war ii and it was a good thing in the end for the allies. however, the human rights atrocities, the philosophical differences was when churchill did not want to participate in peer i think he did see it as a threat and doing nothing, as he says in the "iron curtain" speech, is not acceptable. host: one of our social media followers wants to know if you know whether churchill blamed the soviet union's influence for his election defeat. guest: [laughs]

i do not know if it is anecdotal or not, but at the potsdam conference allegedly winston churchill is there with harry truman and stalin. this was july of 1945 and churchill had to go back to britain. he had to leave berlin. he had to leave the german conference to go back home to learn of the election results. stalin is reported to have said to churchill, why are you worried? churchill was a little worried but he thought he would win. stalin is reported to have said, i have never lost an election. there is that note. i don't think there was russian interference in the general election in 1945, but there was a humorous exchange before churchill went home to learn that he had lost the election.

host: on that day of the speech was the international and national media in fulton for the speech? did they know how historic this was going to be? guest: there was an advance copy of the speech. not a complete final draft circulated to the media, so they knew. there were hosts of radio broadcasters. there was no television coverage although the networks at the time -- network television was in its infancy and it was quite an offer that they offered to send it to the middle of america in rural missouri a camera crew to cover the speech. in fact, they asked churchill would you be ok if we televised the speech? churchill was in miami beach and

then cuba before the speech in january 1946 and responded to the request from westminster college, and we have the telegram in the archives, saying i deprecate complicating the occasion with technical experiments, meaning television. the speech was not televised because churchill did not wanted to be televised. but it was covered on the radio. there were major networks and major coverage in the news spread fast about what had been said in fulton. host: let's look at another piece of this tape where winston churchill is talking about the importance of the special relationship between the united states and the united kingdom. [video clip] [applause] >> nor the continuous rise of

world organization will be gauged without what i have called the fraternal association of the english-speaking people. [applause] this means a special relationship between the british commonwealth and empire and the united states of america. host:host: that special relationship, was this a new way of describing the relationship between the united states and the united kingdom? guest: that is a great question and certainly the "iron curtain" speech is the time he used it with greatest currency. he mentioned it in passing in 1945, but he really gives that term full weight at

westminster college. as much as it is about the iron curtain and looming soviet threat, it is also about shared value sets between britain and america. the special relationship, the common language, common values of law, he cites the magna carta, the declaration of independence, as being together in the same boat. churchill realizes these great nations -- and churchill himself was half american. his mother was from brooklyn who had a lifelong affinity for the united states and appreciated and knew full well what america and americans did for world war ii. he is looking to continue to bolster that relationship, that special relationship, a term we continue to use today. the term is one that churchill

also knew was something they needed at the time. britain after the war was not the britain the end of the war -- ended the war. his country was impoverished, they needed money. early in the speech churchill says, this is a solemn moment for democracy. the united states of america is at the pinnacle of world power and with that power comes responsibility. churchill realizes his own country is not in that position. in many ways he is shopping for the special relationship to benefit britain. certainly behind-the-scenes in his visit to the united states before the "iron curtain" speech he was trying to broker a deal to secure funding from the united states for his government.

he is looking to secure funds to help with the indentedness of his own country. the special relationship was when we talk about today quite a bit, but it was also a relationship, in some ways, of necessity for great britain at the time. we have a new book at the museum that was just published on the subject called "the inspiring history of the special relationship." it is by one of our fellows. it is fascinating. new look at the speech and that relationship. host: let's talk to ned calling from idaho. good morning. caller: how are you doing, guys? i was just wondering if you could maybe comment on a current relationship with britain where biden threw out the

bust in the oval office of churchill after they gave it to us. that is our closest ally. we are trying to pivot to our new alliance with australia, new zealand, and canada. you know, biden is still trying to keep us in this nato thing. what do you think? guest: that is a great question. as always with every new administration, every new leader in britain or here there is a new chapter that is written about the special relationship and we are writing a new chapter today. as far as the bust in the oval office, i think the statue that was on loan from the british embassy after 9/11 has gone back and forth in and out of the office. there is a happened to know a

bust of winston churchill in the private residence. it is been there since 1965. i think there is no threat that just because the statue has moved around in the white house that the special relationship would fail. that is one thing i know for certain. i also know -- we heard from the investor to the united states, the british abbasid are, yesterday during the commemoration and we heard from the state department. there is a renewed look at fighting the next looming threats together. one of the things they both mentioned separately was climate change as being, if you will, the new iron curtain. i think the special relationship between the two countries will have to be one working together,

as we have done for so long, solving some of the great global problems. i think there is great hope for the special relationship. i do not think it is under threat. i think we will be writing a new chapter in the months and years ahead. host: let's see if we can squeeze one more caller in. douglas calling from laramie, wyoming. douglas, good morning. caller: good morning. the reasons and causes of winston churchill being voted out of office, he was no longer seen as desirable for the office of prime minister. guest: if i understand it, why was churchill voted out of office? he was an extremely effective award leader -- war leader and he stood election at a time when

britain was a war weary nation. he won the war. i don't think the british people had anything about -- had anything against churchill as a person, but dealing with domestic issues, which he had to deal with in earnest almost his entire times premised or other than protecting the homeland and dealing with the war effort. the rebuilding was believed by the brits best for somebody else. frankly, churchill did not campaign well in 1945. he was tired. he made some comments about his opposition, referring to if he would win, there would be a gestapo state. that is not a good slogan if you're trying to run for office. particularly if you are winston churchill and he suffered a great deal. between the british desire to take a new direction to deal with the internal domestic

issues the nation had to face, and churchill's somewhat tired campaign, it was a choice the british made to go in a different direction and that is where adley became prime minister. he had served in the cabinet during the war so he was not unknown to winston churchill. later on churchill is asked of all the labor prime ministers, who is your favorite and he would say adley . ultimately winston churchill is vindicated in large measure because of the rejuvenation he

has in his career in the "iron curtain" speech. by 1951, in the general election, his party wins and he is prime minister a second time and is now at the helm as the cold war is waging. he lost in 1945. in some ways it permits him to say things like he said as a private citizen, though he is still the leader of the opposition, here at westminster college and rehabilitate his career as he did so many times during his long life. and when he stood for election in 1551 he is back at the helm. if it says anything about winston churchill that we can admire, you can knock him down but he will always get back up. his perseverance and resolve is

extraordinary, extraordinary throughout his 90 year life. host: let's see if we can get one more quick question and answer in. we talk to anthony calling from green town, pennsylvania. can you get a quick question in? caller: sorry. good morning. just a question on his attitude toward china. i was wondering if you had some insight on that. i understand george marshall did not like china. i did not know if winston, did i don't think he did. we would be in a different world right now. thank you for your answer. guest: that is a really good point. china is certainly in the news today and people are talking about the great wall and the iron curtain. maybe we could do a whole program on this topic, but i

will simply say churchill himself somewhat avoided the subject in the speech here. he mentions china in the "iron curtain" speech. it is almost a throwaway line. there are very few such lines in the speech, but he acknowledges their existence and say, you know china well. i need not talk too much about it here. and that he moves on. it would be very interesting to see and think if churchill had a little more space and maybe had a 55 minute speech to comment on china. he doesn't take on china in the "iron curtain speech at all. it is a question well worth asking and maybe we could find it on another program to explore. as you suggest china and its influence today is something

churchill would be talking about i suspect if you were alive. host: congress has recognized your museum as america's permanent attribute to winston churchill. what is your mission there at the churchill museum? guest: it really is to preserve history and lift of history. winston churchill himself -- his greatest advice to young people was study history. history has all the secrets to statecraft. we live with history. part of the museum has a 17th century church that was bombed in the blitz in london relocated to fulton in the 1960's stone by stone as a permanent memorial to churchill. we have a piece of the berlin wall, the concrete manifestation of the iron curtain. reagan dedicated it in 1990. that is sculpture now by

churchill's granddaughter. history continues to happen here. world leaders continue to come to westminster college and we have had gorbachev, margaret thatcher, these great leaders who helped end the war. westminster college platforms for world leaders to make remarks and speeches and is quite extraordinary. it is a ripple effect from what happened here on this campus 75 years ago. history is not old. we live with it and see it and continue to be influenced by it today. host: talk a little bit about that statue you were mentioning, the breakthrough statute. tell us why does there. guest: edwina sands which is winston churchill's granddaughter, and a very well-known artist, saw the

berlin wall fall on television and had a notion to relocate eight sections of the berlin wall from berlin to fulton as a sculpture. but she did something interesting. she carved through these abstract male and female bricks so you can break through communism and freedom. she entitled it "breakthrough." she has this remarkable work on the campus outside the museum. it really is an extraordinary exclamation point on the story. some are saying these days is that a question mark? interesting on whether the cold war is actually over. host: this has been an absolutely great conversation. timothy, we really appreciate you coming on here and talking with us about the history of the

"iron curtain" speech and your churchill museum. what can people expect to see from the museum coming up in the future? really quickly. guest: join us online right now. if you missed the virtual programming from the 75th commemoration yesterday, we have archived six hours of footage. we have world leaders, diplomats, churchill's family members. you can go to our youtube channel and you will see much more about this really rich and poor topic. host: what is the website? guest: nationalchurchillmuseum.org. host: we want to thank those who have joined us on washington journal and american history tv this conversation. we would like to thank timothy riley for being on with us this morning. he is the director and chief curator of americans national churchill museum.

timo [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy, visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] >> everyday we take your calls live on the air on the news every day and we discussed policy issues that impact you. coming up monday morning, we talk about the congress and the future of president by this legislative agenda especially on covid-19. and another guest discusses the federal coronavirus response spending. watch at 7:00 monday morning, and be sure to join the discussions with your phone calls, facebook comments, and tweets. >> listen to c-span's podcast. the weekly. this week, a look at the future for syria. >> hard road.

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