biden administration infrastructure plan. at 9:15 a.m., i.r.s. taxpayer advocate erin collins on issues related to the 2020 filing and the distribution of stimulus payments. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] ♪ host: good morning, everyone. we'll begin this morning with the first day of trial for derek chauvin of george floyd. the star "tribune" "something was not right. they put witness first on the stand in day one. opening statements made and witness testimonies started in the chauvin trial. and then out of duluth in minnesota, the star "tribune" with the headline "chauvin trial begins with the m.m.a. fighter turned witness to testify." and then finally, cbs

minnesota's website business owners steer repeat of unrest destruction. here's a quote. we just have to deal with whatever comes. as the trial continues today, we're going to get your thoughts on it today. eastern part of the country, dial in at 202-748-8000. mountain pacific, 202-748-8001. you can also text us with your first name, city and state to 202-748-8003. or send us a tweet with the handle @c-spanwj. and you can also go to facebook.com/cspan and post your comments there. let's begin with the minnesota special assistant jerry blackwell in the opening statements making the case against derek chauvin yesterday. >> because you will learn that on may 25 of 2020, mr. derek chauvin betrayed this badge when

used excessive and unreasonable force upon the body of mr. george floyd. that he put his knees upon his neck and his back grinding, and crushing him until the very breath. now, ladies and gentlemen, until the very life was squeezed out of him. you will learn that he was well aware that mr. floyd was unarmed that mr. floyd had not threatened anyone, that mr. floyd was in handcuffs. he was completely in the control of the police. he was defenseless. you will learn what happened in that nine minutes and 29 seconds, the most important numbers you will hear in this trial, 9:29, what's happened in those 9:29 seconds when mr. derek chauvin was applying this excessive force through the body

of mr. george floyd. host: tra was the minnesota special assistant jerry blackwell making the case against derek chauvin. now, the attorney for derek chauvin also addressed the death of george floyd in his opening statements. here's what he had to say. >> the evidence will show then that dr. andrew baker medical examiner's office conducted the only autopsy of mr. floyd. and you will hear of several interviews that dr. baker had with law enforcement where he discusses the cause and manner of death and what that actually means according to what he saw present in mr. floyd's body. and so much this evidence is extremely important to the final determination of mr. floyd's cause of death. the medical findings include things such as the blood gas test that was taken at hcmc that

revealed mr. floyd had an exceptionally high level of carbon dioxide. dr. baker found no telltale signs of asphyxiation. there were no bruises on his neck, either on his skin or after peeling his skin back to the muscles. there was no hemorrhaging. there was no evidence that mr. floyd's airflow was restricted and he did not determine to be a positional or mechanical affix ya death. host: that was from day one of the trial for derek chauvin against in the death of george floyd. the world was watching yesterday as the judge allowed cameras to broadcast the proceedings. we will continue our coverage here on c-span with an 8:00 p.m. time slot, eastern time.

you'll be able to watch the entire trial every day on c-span2. jerry in detroit, michigan. jerry, did you watch yesterday and what were you thinking as you watched? caller: first of all, greta, good morning. and greetings yet again. what i thought, you know, especially as i was listening to the defense, there are shades of i think the eric garner trial. the eric garner case in new york in which they attempted to try to blame mr. garner's health, issues for his death rather than daniel's chokehold on mr. garner. and i think the same is happening here in this case, involving george floyd. and what you're going to be hearing especially on the republican line is a lot of victim blaming. because, you know, they always blame the victim for their death

rather than the officer's action. and they'll try to excuse that in many cases. white races tend to always blame the victim in these police deaths for their own deaths in many ways. and i think as i said, that's what you're going to be hearing from a lot of racist white people on the republican line and i'm sure they'll be trashing me for that. because derek -- what they'll try to claim is that derek chauvin didn't kill george floyd. george floyd killed george floyd. as if he wanted to die. i mean, that's what's the difference here. you're going to hear a lot of victim blaming and i thank you for letting me on. host: eugene robinson echos what you're saying. derek eric is, -- derek chauvin

is on trial, not george floyd. put legal reasons aside and think about that. how could anyone treat a fellow human being with such little regard for his life after he stopped moving? after he stopped breathing? floyd posed no threat to anyone let alone to the police officer who is surrounded his body. but chauvin keeps kneeling on his neck anyway. why? to keep an obviously inert man immobile? or to make a point to the bystanders. eric nelson, chauvin's attorney predictably used his opening statements to fry to make floyd the defendant and onlooker his accomplices. he highlighted if floyd's physical side which come to no surprise the idea of a black man -- men as superhuman in their strength and subhuman has been used to justify our strength, our incars nation, our lynching. doug in fairfax, south dakota.

doug, good morning. go ahead. caller: yeah, good morning, greta. when though they showed this video, it burned energy from the -- my dylan. i have worked hard and when i was young, i played hard. so i sat in jail before and i have sat in church some and i feel like i've learn what had is right and what is wrong and what these two cops shown in the video did was wrong. i deserve -- and deserved to be called pigs in blue. i need to spend some time behind bars to figure out it was wrong and avs if i was there and seen this, i would have stepped in and ended up in jail again. and this was over 20 bucks. also people of texas, let your water run so when it get real cold -- host: ok, joy in oak hill, west virginia. joy, welcome to the conversation.

caller: yes, i don't see how they could say that george floyd died from drugs in his system when his win pipe was being constricted -- windpipe was being constricted. host: and will you continue to watch? caller: yes. host: how are you feeling? what's going through your mind? caller: well, i'm kind of conflicted because god put all of us here together but different ways for a reason. and we seem to be failing the test. especially when the police were put here to protect us, but as of late, the police have been killing so many of us.

host: and why are you conflicted, joy? caller: i really, really couldn't say. host: all right. we're getting your thoughts on the derek chauvin trial. here are the phone lines. if you live in the eastern central part of the country, 202-748-8000. mountain pacific, 202-748-8001. remember, you can text us as well. join the conversation that way with your first name, city and state or send us a tweet with @c-spanwj tweet as your handle. go to facebook.com/cspan as well. we are going to air the court proceedings every day here on our c-span networks on c-span2, on c-span2 is where you'll be able to watch it every night at 8:00 p.m. eastern time as well as our website c-span.org. anthony in sierra vista, arizona. anthony? caller: thank you, greta. the one question that i'd like

to know is when law enforcement or any first responder comes up on the scene, they very rarely turn off their vehicles. and if you look at the position of the deceased -- deceased's head it's toward the rear of the vehicle where the exhaust is. so there doesn't have to be any particular marks of choking. if you have been allowed any diesel vehicle, even when you turn it off, there's still a residual evidence of a diesel or even in an automotive shop. so when you turn a vehicle off, that area is still going to be smelling and distributing out of the exhaust system. so that's one important question

whereas the defense will say, well, you know, his neck didn't show any sign of choking, well, people die just from the smell of sexaust or second demand smoke. so that's an important question. i'm pretty sure even though the vehicle moved and maybe the parking brake wasn't on, my question is was the vehicle running? host: did you watch all day? caller: not all day but the important thing i did was make sure i didn't get totally consumed by in other words, everybody needs to take a break, you know? the adult attention span is somewhere between 35 and 40 minutes and the judge was very good with the breaks. so i just think it's just sit there and watch it on and on,

you're just not going to be able to go out and function the next day. host: why is that? why do you think -- what is watching this trial doing to you? caller: well, 550,000 deaths on the pandemic. a new resurgence of some states like michigan up 60% or 600%, i mean, that's how confusing it can get. and then we have people losing their homes. we have people who own homes and can't even get the rent money from it because of, you know, so many different issues. i live on the border. so you got, you know, elect officials coming out on the border -- host: but anthony, i asked about the trial. caller: right. but that's why i'm saying. if i'm sitting there watching the trial constantly, you know, waiting for the judge to break

them, my whole day is being controlled by the trial. host: got it. got it. got it. bob, in quarter, missouri. hi, bob. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i think this is all about police disrespect myself. you had a person bring up eric garner. he fought the police. all he had to do -- jail he would be alive. same deal. all he had to do is get in the police car and he would be alive today. police disrespect is what -- and i'm tired -- of the police for doing their jobs. host: ok, bob's thoughts in missouri. we'll go to new york. hi, dan. caller: yes, good morning. you know, it's unfortunate to see another person die here and it does look like the police probably pushed it too far again. we've seen enough of that over the last two decades alone.

to really make the average person just turn away and not want to see anything. you can do much better than the tabloid tv thing every day with this trial. who goes on the border every day and show people what's going on there? there are countries being invaded. take your cameras up to washington, d.c. and look at what these people are doing along with wall street to destroy this country can. look at the death we have. our children haven't been in the school for almost -- well, it'll be two years this fall if they don't get them back again, they're not taking their c.a.t.'s. all kinds of things that really matter. now this man hear that died, he died because of drugs and guess what? it all starts at that border. we can send the military around the world to bomb people and to protocol -- patrol cities we can

stop this, maybe not 100% but enough to avoid the george floyd the next time. thank you. host: all right. now mr. blackwell addressed the issue of drugs found in george floyd's death. here's what he had to say. >> you also learned ladies and gentlemen, that george floyd struggled with an opioid addiction. he struggled with it for years. you will learn that he did not die from a drug overdose. he did not die from an opioid overdose. why? because you'll be able to look at the video footage and you'll see he looks absolutely nothing like a person who would die opioid overdose. they would look like asleep. in a stupor. and they're never come to again. and they'll simply pass away,

opioid overdose. they're not screaming for their lives. they're not calling on their mothers. they're not begging please, please, i can't breathe. that's not what opioid overdose looks like. now you will learn that mr. floyd had 11 milligrams fentanyl in a system and they may say that's a fatal amount. what you have to learn is something about tolerance. for a person when has never been exposed to opioids or fentanyl, that may be lethal for them. but for others who have been struggling for years, they have a different tolerance level. host: from yesterday's trial, the opening day of the trial for derek chauvin in the death of george floyd. your thoughts on it this morning. garrett in texas. caller: yes. first i would like to make a comment about the gentleman who talked about the border and having lived by the border most of my life at various countries,

there was a great presence saying please, mr. gor check, don't take down that wall. but this situation is a travesty . whether or not george floyd was on opioids, whether his skin was blue, black, glean, purple or yellow makes no difference. my mama taught me that skin didn't matter. i was in the naval academy in 1972. i was the class of 1972. and 1968, a great leader, a man who said -- let's just say he followed up the president and he said ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. that's what drove me into the navy. now, fred came to me when i was on my very first leave from the

summer and told me that matthew -- martin luther king had been assassinated and he asked me if i had a gun in the house and i didn't know. i was sitting in the hospital with cancer and it doesn't really matter but i'm talking to you to let you know that i witnessed things that day that has changed my life and my views about all races. as fred and i took off, and he asked me to sit outside of his station wagon and brave through the key bridge that i was so familiar and riding my bicycle, i was a boy and sitting on a lincoln monument and we drove by the white house. we turn on pennsylvania avenue carrying loads of groceries and eventually parked at a church and i was numbed. i couldn't even get up. i was a midshipman. i've seen everything you can see physically that summer.

i've been to boot camp and great lakes boot camp. and by golly, i had never seen anything like it. i studied that situation and i found out the slum lords were causing people to went into buildings and take tv's and come out on fire. i fired my blank gun at a black lady and to this day, i have dreams that i killed her but i was just trying to warn her -- i didn't want to see another burning body come out of the building. and by golly, there is no reason for any policemen. my nephew steven lynn williams is lieutenant over the terrible situation in arlington, texas, and he struggles every day. he just offered to retire and give my brother, bill williams, who went 4-4, all long ball at southwestern here at georgetown, texas, and then join the marines

and is now needing a liver transplant. he's on list, he's 78. he can't get one because his son is willing to give him half his liver. i've just been saved by a new procedure for prostate cancer after learning i had kidney cancer early in the year. by gol yi, people put it up we're not red, we're not blue, we're purple. we're all pancreatic cancer people. we have a cancer in this country and if we don't come back to be americans like ollie north told us, this nation has no hope. the constitution is hanging by a thread. and the name of jesus christ, amen. host: derek in texas. jeffrey in west virginia. jeffrey, you're next. caller: yes, ma'am. thanks for taking my call. i'm a little nervous. as a black man, it's just so troubling because at the time when that happened last year, i

didn't have cable and i didn't really see it until yesterday and i kept hearing 8 minutes and 40 seconds when obviously it was nine minutes and 29 seconds. but just to see the smoke on that officer's face when he had his knee on his neck and his bystanders were just asking you're killing him, he can't breathe, and just watching the trial, i'm going to watch it all the way through and it's just always seems like sometimes the officers just get off and i believe 99% of police officers are good officers but the 1% just taints it for everybody. and it's just so hurtful. i mean, i just cried yesterday when i just watched how that officer had his knee on his neck and he's begging for his mother, i can't breathe, i'm sorry, and it's just troubling. i just don't know what to do. but every time these things come

up, here we go again. is he going to get off in this situation? is this officer -- and it seems like they always give the officers the benefit of a doubt. but your eyes can't lie what you can't see yesterday. and that's all i have to say. thank you for having me. host: the attorney for derek chauvin addressed that video and asked the jurors to not only look at that now famous video of george floyd's death but also the other evidence here's what he had too say. >> that interview -- they interview over 50 members on the minneapolis police department including the officers who responded to the scene after mr. floyd was brought to the hospital. they interviewed members of the minneapolis police department command staff. they interviewed officers who oversee training and policy making decisions within the minneapolis police department. they have interviewed nearly 200

civilian witnesses in this case. some of these witnesses saw the entire incident. some who saw a portion of the incident. many who saw nothing. and some who had some piece of information to give to the officers. and others who had nothing. these agents interview numerous medical personnel who interviewed or -- who attended to mr. floyd and they interviewed the numerous fighter firefighters and paramedics who respond. agents executed approximately a dozen search warrants in this case to gather information. and in the end, you will hear a term throughout, i believe this case, called the bait stamp number. the bait stamp system is a way for lawyers to keep track of the case, to make sure that we are working from the same set of documents, the same set of evidence. to preserve the integrity of the

investigation. you will learn that we are approaching 50,000 bait stamped items. so this case is clearly more than about nine minutes and 29 seconds. host: from yesterday's first day of the trial for derek chauvin in the death of george floyd and that continues today. it gets underway at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. and we will continue with our coverage. you can go to our website. our website, c-span.org. you can watch it alt 8:00 p.m. eastern time the day's proceedings. terry mitchell -- only within opinion jurors are threatened and the defense is horrible. just wanted a fair trial without those in courtroom feeling threatened. and she says no cameras should have been allowed. that was the judge who decided to allow cameras. he cite the pandemic and the national interest in this case as a reason why he allowed

cameras in the courtroom. so this is being broadcasted around the world as people watched the proceedings. a little bit about that judge. long from the associated press, long before republican governor put judge cahill on the bench, he was an influential player as the trusted confidant of senator amy kobe char who is now the state's senior senator. his connections to big names began at the law school working as a clerk to michael for decades. that was the minneapolis star tribute. sea in kansas city. as you learn about or watch the first day of this trial, what has been your reaction? caller: my heart hurts so bad -- excuse me. i'm a first-time caller.

i did watch the video and i believe she was the second witness on the stand, the young lady. her video, what i saw when the cops that came to the scene, they were putting on their gloves. they were putting their gloves on like they were ready for whatever's going to go down. so yes, my heart hurts. if i had been there that day, they would have huffed -- i've never had a confrontation with the cops. never. always respected them but that day, i would have gone to jail. they would have handcuffed me and gone to jail because i would have made a bigger stink than just get off of him. i witnessed him dying. host: sea in kansas city, missouri here's renee in newport news with this text. as black woman, i'm disgusted but not surprised that the defense strategy to try the real victim. george floyd wasn't a saint by a

long shot but he didn't deserve to be killed in gold cold cold blood by chauvin. -- olivia in pennsylvania. we'll go to you next. caller: hi. host: hi. caller: i just want to know we can't all -- why can't we all get along? can you explain that to me? why can't we all get along? my son is married to a black girl. host: ok, olivia. louis in miami, oklahoma. caller: yes. i watched that video and every time i see it, i have tears in my eyes. and i am white skinned but

native-american, and i have nothing against any color. my mom always said there is good and bad in every cup. excuse me. and -- that is very true as we all know. and my niece is going to marry a black guy and he is such a sweet man. he just -- so, i'm just like the other lady, why conditional we all get along for petty's sakes? i live around mexicans, germans, well, just about everything. and i even wish that black people would move in at this senior citizen complex. host: ok. caller: i know others probably would like it but i don't care. -- wouldn't like it but i don't care. so anyway, that's all i got to say and i think they did a very

wrong thing. i do believe that cop really and truly killed himanyway, i don'tt happened to why can't you just wound to the person instead of kill them? host: ok, brad, in kentucky, what do you think? it's caller: i think mr. show and will probably unfortunately get off with any other cases like this. i think there must be some kind of problem with the country. i think he will get off for doing this to mr. floyd, and just like obama, president obama got off for killing american citizen omar al-awlaki. there is a bloodlust in the country. there is a problem with violence. host: ok, brad.

what is derek chauvin charged with? there are three counts. count one is second-degree murder, unintentional while committing a felony full of the second count is third-degree murder, perpetrating eminently dangerous act and is vince and get rave mind. count number three, negligence creating unreasonable risk. those are the three counts against their children. charles jackson on facebook says, "whatever the condition of the victims, floyd's obvious distress was plain to see, and a jury should see that as evidence of at least manslaughter." and then from washington, "if mr. floyd had not broken the law, he would not have been in the predicament that took his life from him. ." and then from new york, "another trial by the media. they have already reached a

verdict, which they have presented to the public before hearing the evidence and then, "trial filled with court theatrics. we all know it is a disgusting show of unreasonable force by heavy-handed policemen in this instance." surely from new york, what do you say? caller: ok, i'm calling in about george floyd. i cannot understand. this cop is totally corrupt. anybody -- i watched the trial yesterday. anybody looking at the pictures and what the prosecutor, what the defense had to say, this man laid on the ground handcuffed. there was no reason to be on his neck and back like that. and the other officers, they

could not get him up. i heard the cop say get in the car, get in the car. how was this man to get in the car, laying on the ground with a knee in his neck? that was to cover his self. anybody, whether you are white, brown, black, does not deserve this treatment. we are all gods children. and for the nation, we need to get this together. if it was your son, would you have wanted that to happen to him? no. host: shirley, let me share with you from "usa today," "black teenagers prepare for the return of trauma or cut black tenures talk about how george floyd's -- trauma."

black teenagers talk about how george floyd's death affected them. it was painful for many people of color, black people in particular, as protests died down and the trauma faded. many were already afraid of interacting with police. they are anxious about the outcome of the trial if he is acquitted. charged with second-degree murder, second degree manslaughter. jim in aberdeen, south carolina. go ahead. caller: actually, it is south dakota. host: yes, go ahead. caller: yeah, i'm not here to judge anyone. my prognosis -- i do believe the guy is guilty, the police officer. but i don't believe in burning

up the streets because that is chaos. chaos creates nothing but -- there is nothing you can do with it. over one man's death. host: all right, jim. bird says this in a text message -- have all been told for over a year now that we must trust and follow the signs. autopsy findings may factor in the trial results. the story narrative is well invested in, and that could influence the outcome. then you have erwin in madison, wisconsin, saying cameras are ok but not on the witnesses, either. i believe the case will come down to officer chauvin's tactics, unlawful at the point that mr. floyd stopped resisting, assuming he stopped resisting at any point. what do you say, james? caller: it has been 30 days, i

think, now. on the defense, there are multimillionaires making -- on their side of the fence, -i am a moderate. been a moderate for many, many years. i don't understand. do you? host: andy in michigan city, indiana. caller: hi, greta. you cut back on -- it cut out on the screen this morning. anyway, don't hang up on me yet, please. host: we are listening, don't

worry. caller: i just want to say, i have been watching you guys recently the last month reporting, and i don't know, it's good. anyway, yesterday -- i'm sorry. host: all right, andy -- did you watch the trial yesterday? caller: just a little bit of it. host: what was your reaction? caller: actually, i did not watch enough of it. actually, this morning i was watching three hours and 39 minutes, and the first video right at the beginning of the show, they showed police video, not the video that most people are watching. host: andy, i'm going to leave it there. the president was watching

yesterday, according to the white house press secretary. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> at the time of george floyd's death, he talked about this opening a wound in the american public, and it really brought to light for a lot of people in this country just the kind of racial injustice and inequality that many communities are experiencing every single day. he will be watching it closely, he will certainly be provided updates. obviously this is a trial working its way through law enforcement, a legal process, so we would not weigh in further than that. but these are events that at the time he spoke about it, the reminder of the need -- impacting how he thought about in his government, making equity central to what we do come instituting and putting in place racial injustice, one of the key crises that he believes we are facing in that we are all facing

as a country. [end video clip] host: yesterday from the white house press secretary. carrie in rhode island, what have you been thinking? what has your reaction been to seeing coverage of the trial and the trial itself? caller: well, hi. i just -- i still can't get over those eight minutes of the murder of george floyd, and i'm wondering, has this had a psychiatric review and what the results were? because and then all the other policemen that were with him and witnessed this and did nothing, did nothing at all. i'm thinking, this is like nazi germany and all the supposedly normal germans who may have accepted what was done to so many victims with nazism.

i just cannot believe it. that a minutes is something i do hope the whole world sees at some point, because it is just totally unacceptable. was it suicide by murdering? i just cannot understand the motivation that this policeman had, and i keep thinking, was he psychotic? or is it just the result of, you know, our present state of affairs in this country? host: all right, carrie. from texas, it text -- "i will not be watching the trial of chauvin because it will be another a trayvon martin trial. he will not be convicted and that is a shame another -- that and that is a shame." another -- "i will not be watching the trial of shoving because it will be another --

i don't care what george floyd had in his system. it doesn't account for him getting killed like he did." david, what are you thinking? caller: good morning. it has been really interesting. i only had saw a little bit of the murder in 20. i heard about it. yesterday was the first time that i saw anything substantial, really, when they would have the witnesses and during the opening arguments. i think that it was really interesting, when they did the toxicology and they talked about the methamphetamine and the fentanyl. i am an addict. i don't use anymore, but once an addict, always an addict. i do know that the attorney, when he is talking about fentanyl -- when you are on it, you are not competitive and you're definitely that you're

not combative and you are definitely not talkative like floyd was when he was on the ground. i also think that when it comes to how they are going to liberate, will they actually be able to use? i know that some of the testament of the young man that was a martial artist, they were striking the record. it is really going to be interesting to what extent that they are going to finally charge him with, and it is the first time in my life. i never thought i would see this in my lifetime, to actually see a public execution of a human being. that is really messed up. host: ok, david. justin smith on facebook says, " who do we believe, a medical examiner who works with the police and said it was a drug overdose, or the medical examiner who is highly experienced, highly -- highly

respected and said that the cause of death was asphyxiation and murder but was paid by the family?" up next. caller: good morning. i watched entirely all day this broadcast, and i noticed once they had him in the car, why did they not go ahead and take him to the police station? that is my first and main question. i was impressed by mr. williams, the witness at the end of the day, just knocked it out of the park for the prosecution, i believe. it is going to be a turning point for the entire trial. i just wanted to ask that question and hear some answers from some of your viewers. thank you, greta. host: all right, johnny. pat medlock on facebook says, "i see no point in publicizing the trial full-time enough division. leave it to the jurors."

ned from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say that everybody has seen the nine minutes 100 times. but never do you see the police bodycam video. i'm not saying that makes anything ok, but it does put a different light if you see what happened before those nine minutes. that is just a little bit -- they need to show that. none of the new stations -- cnn, msnbc -- none of them will show that time before the nine minutes that was captured on the video. like i said, it doesn't make it ok, but it does put everything in a different perspective. that's the main thing. the other thing i would like to say real quickly is that we have some black on black murders per

year, and you don't hear anything from black lives matter or anything about that. but we will burn cities down over something like this. just show everything. show the police bodycam footage. show the nine minutes, and it does bring a different light to what all happened. that was my main thing. the last thing i would like to say is, denzel washington once said that when you have no fathers in the home, the street becomes her father, the jail becomes your home. we got 70% of black youths black youths born to no fathers in the home. that was a big problem nobody will address. show the bodycam footage. let people see what happened before those nine minutes. does it make it ok? no, but he put the different light on it. host: and the trial continues today at 10:00 a.m. eastern time, and we will have coverage

of it, 8:00 p.m. eastern time. you will be able to watch it in its entirety come all different proceedings on c-span 2 and on c-span.org. the prosecution did begin yesterday, the opening day, with that nine minutes and 27 second video. they emphasized that in their opening statement. here is a minnesota special assistant attorney general jerry blackwell. [video clip] >> because you will learn on may 20 5, 2020, derek chauvin used excessive and unreasonable force upon the body of mr. george floyd. that he put his knees upon his neck and his back, grinding and crushing him until the very breath -- ladies and gentlemen come until the very life -- was

squeezed out of him. you will learn that he was well aware that mr. floyd was unarmed , that mr. floyd had not threatened anyone, that mr. floyd was in handcuffs. he was completely in the control of the police. he was defenseless. you will learn what happened in that nine minutes and 29 seconds, the most important numbers you will hear in this trial -- 929 in the nine minutes and 29 seconds. host: also derek chauvin's attorney focused on george floyd 's death in his opening statement. here's a little bit from that. [video clip] the evidence will show that dr. andrew baker of the medical conducted the only autopsy of mr. floyd. and you will hear of several

interviews that dr. baker had with law enforcement, where he discusses the cause and manner of death and what that actually means, according to what he saw present in mr. floyd's body. some of this evidence is extremely important to the final determination of mr. floyd's cause of death. medical findings include things such as the test that was taken at cmc that revealed mr. floyd had an exceptionally high level of carbon dioxide. dr. baker found none of what are referred to as the telltale signs of asphyxiation. there were no bruises to his neck, either on his skin or after peeling his skin back to the muscles. there was no particular hemorrhaging. there was no evidence that mr. floyd's airflow was restricted,

and he did not determine to be in a positional or chemical asphyxiant death. [end video clip] host: if you missed it yesterday, the opening arguments of that trial. you can find it on c-span.org. we are getting your thoughts as the trial for derek chauvin continues today. you can go to our website for more details. as we get your thoughts on the trial, we hear from connie in chicago. as we hear from connie, i will also show you how the first day is playing out in newspapers across the country. connie, go ahead. caller: thank you, greta. first i want to ask the station. i have noticed at least five to six blackouts during certain types of commentary. and just on c-span. i checked my other stations, cable and local, and they are normal. every time these certain types

of commentary come on, the entire screen goes black. host: you are the second caller who has said this for that is happening this morning on washington journal? caller: that's right. there is certain types of commentary that the screen gets blacked out. host: it is not because of certain types of commentary. it is a blackout -- it is a technical issue happening. i want to make sure that you or any other caller that that is happening too, it is not because, as you are saying, that there is certain type of commentary. caller: to confirm your point, it just happened again. i am going through it again. anyway, i want to briefly comment on the opening trial yesterday. i noticed that first of all,

that video is just so horrendous, it is difficult, externally difficult to watch it again. and i watch mr. chauvin's body language, and he had a fierce and hard determination to his posture during the entire brutal -- i call it -- murder of george floyd. then his defense attorney, during the opening argument on his side yesterday, he did not even address the video at all. he moved right into trying to put mr. floyd on trial. and i found that equally disturbing. so it is as if he is saying, well, this man was not worth even wasting the time to say that he should have a justice, that it is all about making sure

that derek chauvin gets off, and that chauvin character is despicable. the evidence that that video is extremely powerful, and i still route it to my floor when i stood yesterday while i watch that. and then it just depressed me. it is really horrible, greta, and that's all i have to say. thank you. host: connie in chicago. from this, no justice, no peace. rest in peace. minneapolis. hi, teresa. caller: good morning, how are you? host: good morning. caller: i'm calling because the thing that happened with george floyd was the most horrific thing that i could see. i wanted to protest but i could not. i wanted to call every congressperson and say what are

you guys doing and what's up with that? they said george floyd was a security guard. they also said that derek chauvin moonlighted as a security guard, and george floyd and derek chauvin knew each other. that is a really good point for somebody that is going to know somebody and take advantage. for those talking about people, about their actions before but for nine minutes their body is on the ground and they are being killed, saying that bothers me to be in the home and all that kind of crap, you need to turn around and put your body on the ground where mr. floyd was killed. my son went to high school with oscar grant. he was killed on the platform in brookfield station in oakland. sorry.

it was made a movie. that movie is called -- somebody in the park across the way filmed everything when oscar was shot in the back with the officer's neon his head, and there is an officer standing over him, shot him in the back. i woke up the next morning and saw that oscar was killed because my son went to his cool with him and they played high school baseball together. he already had a daughter, and he said when he was shot -- "you shot me. i have a daughter. " i am a victim. when i was 19 years old i went to jail with two black men, and i am white. a police officer kicked me in the holding cell. i was on my one free phone call,

different officer came in and told me i could not call nobody. kicked me and took the phone away. so those of you who want to judge something about a person, put your body down right where that man was laying. thank you, greta. host: all right, teresa. bob from massachusetts. what has been your reaction to this trial so far? caller: i watched the footage, all of it, and the lady from illinois -- i am really sorry for you, that's horrible. in the interim here, if everybody watches all of the footage, all of it, i have not seen officers that nice in my life to anybody. i have been around cops. when i was a kid, i got pops once. they were not very nice to me. they threw me in a cell. they left me in there overnight and i was just a kid, 14, 15

years old, drunk at my friend's house. that doesn't excuse it, but the police today are much less apt to kill people, much less apt to beat people up. because of all the cameras and that stuff. he was not kneeling on him in the interim of to try to take away his breath. the guy begged to get out of the vehicle. he was screaming, you're going to kill me. no, george, i'm not going to kill you. i have never seen a person treated so nicely in my life. then he got out of the car and he laid on the ground. i saw how the officers kneeled on him. he is not trying to crunch them into the ground like that. i have seen cops do that to people. that didn't happen. i don't understand it. host: barbara, concord, california. caller: good morning. this officer should be charged with murder. i don't care if it's second-degree or third degree.

he killed this man in front of us, and your callers -- please stop making excuses. he was killed. it was a lynching in front of the american people. and stop bringing obama up. he's not the president. get over yourselves. host: john in bristol, connecticut, it is your turn. caller: good morning. those nine minutes, this guy is saying 20 times i can't breathe. if you don't get air, you die, period. these are supposed to be trained officers. the cop didn't care. by the look on his face, he didn't care. they had problems with him, they could have zip ties on his legs and set him up. and that was not a mob. those were american citizens voicing their opinion about how those officers were acting on that street. those were taxpayer citizens. it was a murder right in front of everybody's face.

that is all i have to say. host: diane, st. paul, minnesota. diane, as you watched what is happening in your state, as you watch and live in the state where the trial is happening there, what are you thinking? caller: i have been thanking god because i have lived in this state for all of 50 years, and each and every day i cringe for my own kids because this is just one instance of police murder that took place on camera. i have been watching this. i'm not going to miss it, and i have been protesting, and we have been trying to make changes. not so much changes about the police but change the structure of the police. so you know our police in minneapolis and st. paul don't live in our neighborhood, they come from greater minnesota, what we call rural minnesota. and most of them have no contact with us, african-americans or

people of color, until they get here. and the business last summer, what got burnt, that was wrong. but i have dealt with trauma. as a parent, i live with trauma that my nieces and my nephews and my grandsons and my children are not going to come home at night. when they go out the door in the morning, we don't know what is going to happen to them because i know -- i can imagine how -- a $20 bill cost this man his life? where is the justice in that? and when we have a look at the mass shootings around the country -- it was not about a $20 bill. those people had killed people. they kill people and the police brought them out alive. why couldn't they bring him home alive? i'm not going to miss this trial. do i believe he is going to get convicted? no, i do not believe.

even though the judge is good, prosecutor is good. but no, american citizens are going to be one's that are going to let this murderer go free. that is what i have to say. i hurt every day of my life. i'm 71 years old. i have lived here, i have seen the lynchings, i have seen the pictures, the brutality. i myself was a parole officer for 30 years, worked in the suburbs, and i got stopped over 50 times for no reason by the police because i was in the wrong place. you can be in the wrong place at the wrong time and lose your life. i felt bad. it wasn't funny because they would single me out. i have a badge, a police officer, they are not going to treat me like that. but they did. they treated me the same way they treat everybody else of color. so i started fighting for civil

rights for everybody. we are part of this country. we have built this country. we should have the same rights as everybody else in the constitution. i just want to say that. i think you this morning. host: diane, st. paul, minnesota. we are going to take a break. when we come back, we will turn to infrastructure. president biden will announce part one of a $3 trillion plan to rebuild america. we will have a roundtable discussion with economics professor diana furchtgott-roth and joseph kane of the brookings institution. later this morning, we are going to get advice from our irs taxpayer advocate erin collins. talking about the filing season plus other issues, such as stimulus payments. we will be right back.

announcer: sunday on in-depth, a live conversation with science writer and author harriet washington. her most recent book is "carte blanche." her other books include "medical apartheid" and "deadly monopolies." >> when companies use profit to measure their success in the medical arena, the problem is that we cannot expect companies to care about us. we cannot expect the companies to sublimate and make less money because they care about our health. they have already shown us they don't care about our health. but the government, the people that we pay and that we should expect to care about our health and should defend us, our government should be reading in these companies. our government should be forcing them to develop things that will set the public need and it is not. announcer: joint in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts,

and tweets. harriet washington on "in-depth" sunday on c-span2. announcer: washington journal continues. host: president biden going to talk about infrastructure in the country this week, unveiling part one of the $3 trillion plan. joining us to talk about that is diana furchtgott-roth, a former research and technology secretary and deputy assistant transportation secretary for technology with the trump administration. now an economics professor at george washington university. joseph kane is with us as well, a senior research fellow at the brookings institution. welcome to you both. thank you for being here. diana furchtgott-roth, let's begin with you. describe to our viewers when our infrastructure is like in the united states. guest: we have a lot of

infrastructure that needs to be maintained, and one of my particular interests is the global positioning system, gps. backing up gps so that people who are using that kind of navigation system, emergency workers, and nowhere to go. this gps system is dependent on a constellation of satellites that can get knocked out through an electromagnetic storm or some foreign military action. as the to permit if transportation, putting in someplace, a kind of backup, ground-based, so that if something happens to these satellites, we still have gps and we can find out where we are going. emergency workers can get to that crash. host: why is that more important than bridges and roads? caller: i think bridges and

roads are very important, but we also need to look at the back end? what goes on that we cannot see. if gps didn't work, then all the best roads and bridges in the united states would not be able to help murderers who wanted to get where they are going. that is why we need to focus not only on the big picture, but also on the small picture. it is like you have a computer and you know what it looks like and it looks great and there is the software and the hardware that underlies it. so gps is like the software and hardware that underlie our infrastructure, and it is just as important. host: what is the price tag for upgrading the gps? guest: it depends. it is around $50 million to $100 million per year. it is already provided free by the federal government. and it continues to work for all of us. it is not just car navigation

systems, it is also the electricity grid that works through timing and gps, through financial transactions. it is precision agriculture where tractors have a timing gps receiver that enables farmers to put seeds in a particular place, and water come and fertilize those, helping the environment. gps helps measure out climate change. it is essential for climate change measurement. it measures the thickness of the ice sheets, vegetation in the amazon, the soil moisture. the roughness and size of the seeds. it is very important to everything we are trying to do in infrastructure. host: joseph kane, how would you describe infrastructure in this country? guest: i think first we need to start off with a definition of infrastructure. it is not just roads and bridges, it is also our water system, our energy system. it is our telecommunications

system. it spans all types of public and private facilities. many of these are, as engineers like to call them, at the end of their useful life. they were built in some cases like our water pipes. some of our water pipes are wooden and go back to pre-civil war. we are not just in an era of new construction but in an era of repair and replacement, that we are spending quite a bit on infrastructure in terms of public spending and transportation and water infrastructure, according to the congressional budget office we spent $450 billion a year, about 2.5% of gdp. but it is not just a federal challenge, it is also very much a state and local challenge. the challenge here is the maintenance of many of these, in addition to the new construction of them. that is the challenge facing a lot of us. host: joseph kane, how does our

infrastructure compared to other countries? guest: the investment that we have seen in countries such as china, europe, have been more forward-looking, have had a consistent vision and plan behind them. the big thing lacking in the united states at the moment is really the -- in many ways, we're living in a 1950's vision that would literally test that was literally last articulated by the eisenhower administration , the highway system, that we built out over the last half-century. they oer in fundamentally -- but we are in fundamentally different era now, one of extreme climate, of new and changing technologies. certainly many different economic inequalities. so it is not just our inability to keep up with investments per se, relative to global peers, but how we are not creating the division that we are seeing in other countries as well. host: we want our viewers to

call in this morning if you support or oppose having trillions of on infrastructure. what is the infrastructure like where you live? if you live in the instant or central part of the country, dial 202-748-8000. pacific area, 202-748-8001. you can also text city and state to 202-748-8003. send us a tweet with c-span at wj. also facebook.com/c-span. i want to show our viewers and guests the white house press secretary sunday, talking about the president, what we can expect to hear from the president tomorrow. >> the first step of his plan toward recovery will include an investment in infrastructure. we should not be 13th in the world. the wealthiest, most innovative country in the world. he is going to have more to say later in if about the second

part of his recovery plan, which will include a number of the pieces you talked about that health care, childcare, addressing that. it is a crisis right now, the number of women who have left the workforce, he wants to help address that. the total package we are still working out, but he will introduce ways to pay for that and he is he could to hear ideas from both parties as well. >> are we talking about two separate bills? is he hoping that infrastructure he can get past with republican votes, and then what we are hearing, he is going to stick to trillion dollars in tax cuts in the second package, and then pass that through a straight democratic party line vote? >> i don't think republicans in this country think we should be 13th in the world as it relates to infrastructure. roads, railways, rebuilding them -- that is not a partisan issue. that is a lot of what the president will talk about this wednesday. then he will have another

package, another proposal that he will put forward in a couple of weeks that will address a lot of issues that the american people are struggling with -- childcare, the cost of health care. that is what they can expect to hear from him in april. >> but just to lockdown, two separate bills, correct? >> two separate proposals, and we will work with the house to see it going forward. [end video clip] host: diana furchtgott-roth, your reaction? >> i think it is very important to talk about how we are going to pay for infrastructure. one interesting question is if we are him in at more electric vehicles, and gm says it is going to be completely electric by 2035, what is going to happen to substitute for those gap tax revenues. right now revenues from the gas tax go to funding our highways. if we are not going to have gasoline vehicles, how are we going to judge the electric

vehicles -- to charge the electric vehicles for the roads that they use? that is a really interesting question that congress and the new administration will have to figure out. but will substitute for the gas tax? host: joseph kane? guest: i don't think we can immediately jump to the $. around these conversations, the difficulties have been around for decades. nothing new. we need to better define what is our vision here. what is our goal. what is eight when he first century infrastructure vision. the fact that the biden administration has elevated infrastructure as a priority issue is certainly, i think, interesting and commendable. but there is still the challenge of what are we exactly doing with all this money? there is a lot of money already sloshing around in the infrastructure space federally, certainly in the private sector. but it has to be these questions that diana was touching on as

well, not just of efficiency without technology and so on, but also with equity, that there are many challenges in terms of the households, the users who actually support many of these systems, to actually continue to support these systems, there are many affordability challenges. we think of transportation, and certainly our water and energy bills at the moment. it is not just a question of how much and how much are we spending and where, but really what are we trying to do, why are we doing it, and where are we doing it? host: msn.com is reporting to transportation secretary monday ruled out an increase in the federal gas tax or charging drivers a fee based on miles driven to pay for the administration's $3 trillion infrastructure plan. let's get to our calls. and if her in oak park illinois, you are up first. good morning to you. caller: good morning. so my question was, since, you

know, basically the whole country is falling apart with the roads -- i am 41 and they have been saying this since i was a kid -- and it never seems to be a huge deal. we are america, we are supposed to be so great in the world, but nobody -- bridges are falling apart. i live in chicago. i never understand -- why don't we take the money out of the defense budget, since defense is supposed to kind of help us -- i know this is not war, but we spend triple on defense than what we do, and any other country. can't we take a block out of the infrastructure, to build america up to make us safer? especially when it comes to the water and everything else? host: ok, joseph kane. esco we have to start with the fact that the federal government by itself is not going to solve

all of this. many of these challenges are invisible, and they are very much at a state and local level. when i said before $450 billion is what we spend on transportation and water infrastructure every year, three quarters of that is at a state and local level. so with the fascination over what the federal government can do, the federal government is an important partner, but it will not solve all of this by itself. there are no silver bullet solutions. many of our challenges are fragmented and localized, but they need to be visible, intuitive. these are issues that we deal with every day, whether we are driving to work, whether we are turning our water on at home -- especially during the pandemic, things that we take for granted. these are issues that ripple nationally and are not just within the confines of washington. host: chagrin falls, ohio. we will go to that sitting next where steve is watching. welcome to the conversation. caller: good morning. i was just calling to say i

agree with the young man when he says that the lack of vision in much of the infrastructure for the united states. in particular, there are several areas i think we are a little more -- where a little more integrated approach things might be helpful in terms of especially transportation. in some other countries, they integrated much more clearly and effectively rail, air travel, public transportation, etc., more integrated. where i live, it is the electoral -- the electrical power outages that are problematic for sure. put the electrical distribution in the center of the road. i mean, it is just that forward-looking planning. i would like some thoughts on

some of the vision part that could maybe help address this. host: diana furchtgott-roth, why don't you go first? guest: one of the great things about the united states that makes us the greatest country in the world is the federal system, the control that the individual states have. and that in a sense contradicts this vision of federal system because let me give you a small example. when i was at the transportation department, i asked about developing materials that would not allow potholes. i researched paving materials. one of the biggest complaints of anyone is the potholes in the road. so i said when are we going to get these paving materials out? the problem is the paving materials are more expensive initially, less extensive over a five to eight-year period, but

initially they are more expensive. given that we run on state and local budgets and the states and local governments have a one or two year time horizon, they are not using these more expensive materials because they are not using it initially. it does not fit into their budget. even though on a five or 10 year horizon it would be less expensive. so our vision has to encompass, as joseph said, a role for federal, a role for state, a role for local governments, and how to get those pieces to fit together. one suggestion might be that when the highway funds or distribute it to the state, they have more of a say as to how those are given out and for what to do with them. right now they are sent up with -- from washington to the states with a lot of items saying how they have to be used. it might be better to get states under the more flexibility so that they can work in terms of what is best with their local areas because washington doesn't always know what the best thing

is for illinois or for the city. host: joy in philadelphia. caller: yes, hello. host: joy, go ahead. caller: i just want to say that i think a lot of americans don't get the chance to travel outside of the united states, and they have this perception that other countries, like third world countries -- i did have a chance to do my job, to travel. i went to south korea, and when i got to their airport, i was shocked to really see how they put so much money in their infrastructure. i think a lot of americans have this perception that we are the greatest, but we are not putting our money where we should.

guest: the previous caller also hit the nail on the head -- integrate it. that we cannot continue to take a traditional siloed approach as we do, with transportation in one corner, water in another corner. our actors often don't talk to each other when dealing these -- with this issues -- with these issues at a federal level. u.k. has a national infrastructure plan, australia has a national infrastructure plan. these are our global peers. they have the vision established of what matters in terms of not just the physical facilities, but how can infrastructure be a foundation to economic growth and opportunity. think about it. we don't need a road, per se, but we do need to get to roque to get to work quickly,

efficiently, and there is no consistency about what we really here with the comprehensive plan to make these assessments. host: according to the new york times, the president will unveil part one of his $3 trillion plan. the new york times says the first package includes spending heavily on clean energy deployment and the development of other high-growth industries of the future, like 5g communications, money for rural broadband, advancing training for workers, and one affordable housing unit. nearly $1 trillion in spending on the conjunction of roads, bridges, electric vehicle charging stations, and improvement to the electric grid and other parts of the power sector. diana furchtgott-roth and joseph kane, i will have you both react to moving that part one. diana furchtgott-roth, why don't

you go first? guest: i think it is important that we have complements to gps so that we do not get lost on the roads and we know where we are going. i want to put in a plug for that. certainly some repair is needed. i would hope that it would be done, that these funds would be sent to the states, and the states would figure out what they want to do. it is also important to be able to streamline regulatory approval so that when the money is funded it doesn't take two or three or four years to approve a project. actually, two years is a short amount of time, which means that even if things went really, really well, these projects would start being constructed until -- would not start being constructed until the end of president biden's first term. in order to streamline the regulatory approval process so

that some of these projects to get going -- that having been said, there is a lot of private -public partnerships that can be used in a lot of ways that individuals can be paying for transportation themselves. we see them outside washington, d.c., with some of these new express lanes, and this should be included in the package. there is a lot in the package that is not direct infrastructure, and i would say focus on the things that are needed. repairing the roads and bridges, streamlined the regulatory approval process, and bringing in the private sector as much as possible. host: joseph kane? guest: i think diana is right. these are institutional investments. as much as there is a policy window, we cannot just rush a plan out, fully realizing that these investment that will last 30, 40, 50 years. what is important to emphasize is two things in the plan. on efficiency, yes, we need to improve roads, water systems,

energy systems, our telecommute occasions and broadband systems, to unlock that innovation potential across the country. but the second is equity, that our infrastructure is intended to support people, not just getting projects done but helping people. a big part of this that has been overlooked for many years -- and i commend the administration for raising this, our workers. our infrastructure system don't just -- doesn't just automatically maintain or construct themselves but depend on 17 million workers across the country, about 11% of our workforce is employed in infrastructure. as we think of building out these projects, looking toward the next 50-plus years of how we are going to maintain these projects that serve different type of people, who is going to be doing this? that will require a human infrastructure to maintain all of this. host: melissa is in bloomfield,

iowa. question or comment? caller: i have a little bit of both, thank you very much. my question is -- and a little bit of a, -- you guys are talking about the transportation tax to support infrastructure. does that mean you are going to take away the gas tax that is already in place for states that already have that? number two, you talk about you need the infrastructure, and making people's lives better for transportation. how many billions of dollars have they spent on that lovely little railway in california, and it went nowhere? so please explain to me how this is supposed to be better. it is more of a punishment for people that drive the vehicle, than people that don't. host: joseph kane? guest: the first question on the

gas tax -- there was a federal gas tax that was increased in 1983. it was not indexed for inflation. the past quarter-century, our infrastructure needs have changed quite a bit. our revenue sources have not. over time we have put more money from the general fund, so generally from the federal piggy bank. the federal gas tax in itself is outmoded. it is unable to keep up with our prevailing demand, let alone evolving new demand that our systems are making. the states themselves control their own gas taxes, because they do not have the luxury to wait. states and localities have increased their own revenues over time, have put all the tools on the table to keep ahead of these repairs. we have seen a lot of action out of state and local level that has not been visible to people, as much as there has been action at the federal level. in terms of -- i believe the second question was why did did

not work well last time and how could it be different this time? i like build back better as a campaign slogan. weathered becomes a governing principle or not, -- whether it becomes a governing prince for not come i don't know, but it cannot this be about building more. what are the objectives? i would argue we did not have clear objectives 10 plus years ago in the last stimulus, or in other efforts. so hopefully, following what the president is going to be talking about tomorrow and certainly going to be coming out on the hill and elsewhere, is what is the vision here? what are the objectives? what are we trying to do in terms of making these investments? host: diana furchtgott-roth, adding to that viewer with a tweet from steve, who says, "i have a gas guzzler but would not mind the gas tax going up to one dollar a gallon. it has been $.19 per gallon for over 20 years. show shum backbone -- show some

backbone, congress here can -- show some backbone, congress." guest: i have a gas guzzler, too there is nothing to prevent individual states from using the gas taxes to fund their own roads. many states have indeed raised the gas taxes. to go back to the previous caller's question about rail, rail works very well in europe because it is a small but densely populated collection of countries. it is not so economical here in the united states, outside the northeast corridor, rail does not attract the ridership and revenue that he needs to be sustainable. people can fly long distances or go in their own vehicle. so multitrillion infrastructure package focuses on what people need, and there is a lot of driving that needs to be

host: lynn in albuquerque, new mexico. caller: mr. kane is a fascinating character. who will pay for all of this? the u.s. is borrowing money from 18 nations in the world. they are trillions of dollars in debt. you have people in d.c. thinking the u.s. is an unending trial when they themselves live very well. this guy i am looking at, he is not in touch with reality. even the alexandria ocasio-cortez character set the original plan was that the hierarchy, the politicians, were planning on riding around in plans and everyone else on the ground walks it or takes the train. i don't mind trains but they are

not very efficient. you do have your problems with it. i resent the fact we get people like this with their head in a bucket who have no idea. host: would you be in favor of raising taxes to pay for new infrastructure? caller: i would be in favor of raising taxes to pay off bills these people have created. guest: resources are not endless, for sure. the fact is we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars right now to keep the country operating as is. this is not about gushing more money for the sake of gushing more money. there are serious challenges in terms of how we generate revenue , where we target investments. it is not going to be just within washington. it is all across the country. these conversations are happening all the time, certainly during the pandemic where we have seen a lot of

places that have been fiscally constrained that do not have the revenues not just from penn tradition -- from transportation but also from sales taxes. there are challenges of paying for infrastructure that are a priority. this is a huge challenge. it is easy to pay lip service and say it is a bipartisan priority and we need to do something. this has been talked about for decades. we cannot live in a bubble because so much of it is not in a bubble. it is all over the country and there are real challenges in places. if action is not taken in some places, we will see a repeat of what happened in texas and new orleans or than 15 years ago and what happened in new york with superstorm sandy. we will be seeing more these issues happening if we did not intentionally take action and find sustainable and durable revenues to pay for these actions. host: a text from russ in

california, "we are always promised infrastructure plans and nothing happens. no president sees it through. same with local politicians that they will get potholes fixed. through -- the real truth is it never gets accomplished." gary in indianapolis. caller: good morning. i'm calling in regards to actually be involved. i worked for six mayors over the period of my career. a lot of the government leaders have not had vision to repair. the theory is what you cannot see is not visible. there are so many invisible damages underground. in indianapolis, we had manhole covers being shot out of their position and could have hit some pedestrians or cars.

the other thing i would like to comment on -- i have done a lot of research. some states are losing up to 500 gallons of water per day with leaking pipes. i do have some ways we could pay for all this infrastructure. if you're going to do it, don't put mandates on it like potholes. how much money has anyone looked at that has been spent patching manholes when that money could have been used to do the job correctly. my other comment would be paying for the infrastructure. we have so much gold stored in knoxville and in kentucky. why don't we use some of that money? let's legalize money in all 50 states and tax it. i have been offered a job in

denver, colorado to go and protect where they sell legal marijuana. 100,000 to $200,000 a day a lot of them are making. they are building vaults and walk in areas they can protect. they cannot put money in institutions. it is crazy. not only would be be able to control the legal marijuana, we would be able to tax it. this infrastructure if done right is good for the economy. it would creep jobs, materials, and supplies to do the work. host: diana furchtgott-roth are, what is your reaction? guest: these problems he described, many are on the local level. the cities are responsible for

maintaining the gas pipes, electricity lines, the pipes. it is not the problem for the federal government to fix what goes on in different cities with manhole covers blowing off. what is important is states figure out how to do that. when they get funds, they need to be allocating those. they need to be responsible. if they're not responsible, they will be elected out of office in the elect -- in the next election. this is not something state and local governments can do. if it goes down, everyone will be blaming washington. washington has provided this service for free and needs to make sure it continues to work. host: phil in california. caller: thank you for taking my call. my question is regarding the

inconsistency of roads within the country, within states. in california we travel from khaki to county. the road may be decent as you cross into another county, then it is not so good. i think the problem is the increase of transportations by big rig trucks, especially during covid. more people are ordering online. in the last 25 or 30 years -- i am 80 years old and have lived most of my life in california. the big rig trucks, the things we encounter within our cities and the state, they caused a lot of wear and tear on the roads. maybe we should consider alternative methods of transportation? increase our rail service, maybe smaller trucks but more of them. it is not so heavy.

then in the wintertime and summer, the threes and file aspect -- the freeze and thaw aspect, it is ongoing. maybe we ought to think about reducing the size of the trucks but may be increase the number of smaller ones. caller: he is right -- guest: he is right. it is not just individuals driving to school or work, it is freight transportation and trucks, other needs that are not only impacting roads but also our waterways and railways. these are vital conduits for economic activity. it is interstate commerce which is a federal responsibility. the trucks are not just traveling within california but are traveling across state lines and going all over the country.

it has created bottlenecks in many places, including our major court centers in los angeles and major rail centers in chicago. this is not an isolated challenge. it is getting more serious with the rise of e-commerce, amazon, the demand among consumers and producers to have the, seamless access. that will require new ways of looking at transportation systems, that we are not just piling on more activity, but can actually be more proactive in handling these woes. host: diana furchtgott-roth, this is from stephen duncan who says "i think we need to work on our electric grid because our enemies can shut us off." guest: yes. and the electric it is also

based on the timing of gps to make everything work. we need to be focused on the electricity grid, wind and solar are very popular but they do not produce as much energy as natural gas which has made our air so much cleaner. we need to be focusing on efficient energy using the natural gas we have in the u.s. to power that. so we don't get a repeat of what happened in texas and these rolling blackouts in california. host: denny in maryland, go ahead. caller: the future, i think it is kind of bright. have you looked into hyperloop tunnels that elon musk is building? we also have flying taxes coming online pretty soon.

also have you looked into boston's big tunnel? was it successful? i heard it was over budget. i'm afraid if we start pouring money into our infrastructure we will have a lot of waste. in maryland, the big thing is high plains. those work to reduce traffic. thank you for your time. host: joseph kane you want to take hov lanes and the big dig? guest: he brings up a good point that there is a need for innovation not only in transportation but in all of our infrastructure. a lot of that does come from the private sector. the hot lanes in maryland is with a private partnership and is also in northern virginia.

this is an issue that came up during the trump administration and over the past decade. also, there are resources to be paid for these projects, probably -- resources needed to pay for these projects problem -- pay these projects, probably a combination of private. and public resources there is a problem of how these solutions can be delivered. the purpose of the big dig was to remove the elevated highway slicing through boston's downtown. this is hitting other cities. these highways are aging and they need to be replaced or torn down. we are going to have this challenge. what do they do with aging assets?

do they bury them underground? do they create tunnels? that's cool create huge costs but also opportunities. host: johnny in texas. caller: i have been in texas almost 50 years and a petroleum company has had five plants here. they offered the state of texas guaranteed they could make roads last either 50 years or hundred years. they would guarantee it. the state of texas said no because it would put too many people out of work. now i can see where we do need it. i hope to god texas and the united states would be interested in purchasing from phillips petroleum company.

host:host: -- host: back to the new york times. you heard the press secretary say the president's plan could be unveiled in april. the new york times says the second package focuses on participation -- participation of women in labor force, it extends or makes permanent subsidies for low and middle come americans to buy health insurance and tax credits. what is your reaction to the administration calling this the second part of an infrastructure plan? diana furchtgott-roth, why don't you go first? guest:guest: if people call it infrastructure it makes it more likely to pass. it is not infrastructure, though.

free community college sounds good but there is financial aid for people who do not have funds to go to community college. going to university or community college is a serious business. it should not be free. host: joseph kane. guest: there is physical infrastructure which is a lot of what we have been talking about and you can argue that the extension is social infrastructure which includes schools, hospitals, other community facilities. within a broad conception of infrastructure, you could embitter these issues. i think diana is right, we can't fold in too much into one big package percent. -- one big package per se.

we need to be intentional about these issues. the first part will have -- the first part of the package will have more bipartisan appeal. our social infrastructure needs are an extension to that and probably more politically speaking not as bipartisan. host: bernie in louisville, kentucky. caller: hello. good to talk to you. my question is for dr. ross -- dr. roth. i live in louisville, kentucky, several miles away from cincinnati where the span bridge is. we also have our own bridge in louisville.

they are really inefficient. my question is you are talking about aging materials out there that were being developed or were not being used. are you speaking of "super pav." -- "super pave." i talk with engineers all day and we are always talking about "super pave." if there's one thing that would improve inca structure -- improve infrastructure, that is it. guest: that is one of the materials. there were teams that were developing many different types of strong paving. i would ask them why we still

have potholes and why is this not on the road? why do i still have potholes after a snowstorm? my interest is in what the material is. it was explained to me the initial cost was so high that states and governments could not put it on. they would rather put the same old less-expensive material on. that seems shortsighted and apolitical problem we need to solve. host: joseph kane, i want you to enter this question from one of our viewers who tweets "i believe there are many flint, michigans happening silently across america, particularly in minority communities." i stopped drinking tap water years ago. what is the state of our water infrastructure and how much money is needed to improve it?"

guest: that is a hugely important issue and something we take for granted when it comes to turning on our faucet. it is not just drinking water concerns. when we think of leadpipe removal in the case of older cities and communities. it is also wastewater and stormwater needs. it is no accident that there is a lot of flooding in some communities because the way we have developed land for several years. there's nowhere for water to go. it is a variety of natural and physical challenges that are environmental in nature and getting more extreme and costly. these are issues that are no accident in communities like flint where the infrastructure challenges are inexplicably tied to economic challenges. there has to be the capacity to invest.

it is not just the federal government but also states and localities. do local officials have the revenues to make these investments? in the cases of places like flint that have seen population loss, have seen job declines, there has not been that capacity to invest in these water systems. these are significant challenges that are all across the country. they're going to require new ways of talking about infrastructure needs so that they are more visible to more people. host: rick in providence, kentucky. caller: wasn't it eight or nine years ago that we had the obama-biden infrastructure plan

and the signs went up all over the country about the shovel ready jobs and everything? what did we get for that trillion dollars? guest: we certainly got from infrastructure but the projects cannot be shovel ready right away. it takes regulatory approval to actually do the job, to find the people to do it, you need contracts and acquisitions. it needs to be well thought out which is another reason for doing it at the state and local level. to go back to flint, michigan, state and local officials need to be held accountable for different infrastructure projects. when washington since funds backs, they need to have -- washington send this funds back, they need flexibility to use the

funds. they don't need public transit in a large rural area such as kansas. they can use those funds to proof the water system or some other project that state legislators should think is most helpful and needed in the community. host: marie in castlewood, virginia. caller: i think each state should take up its own infrastructure money. federal needs to take up for federal only. like the congressman in georgia said, they were giving back 11% less then what had been picked up in their state of this money. i don't think it is up to people in georgia or virginia to pay for infrastructure. in california, if they want railroads and tunnels, talk about flint michigan -- flint, michigan. the reason flint had trouble was

the twit was built for nearly 2 million people -- the city was built for nearly 2 million people and now there are only 600 million -- 600,000 people living there. . now there -- living there now. so the water is more expensive. the people in the state would decide what to do with this money and how much gas tax needs to go on in each state to take care of it. i don't think estate should be helping another state. host: joseph kane? guest: there is a federalist -- federalist responsibility to pay for and manage infrastructure. while it is a primarily state and local parity, there are certain issues like in terms of interstate commerce, that is a federal responsibility.

there are certain federal rules here. we are a collection of many different localized infrastructure needs and infrastructure priorities and strategies. i think the caller is right in the sense that we need to question how we have perhaps paid for some of these projects over time. what are going to be the new types of collaborations and tools to cover some of these needs? we really need to consider all options in front of us versus relying on the same prevailing model that is not done enough for us -- that has not done enough for us. that will require porter -- forward thinking leadership antics -- and experimenting with different ways. host: mary in carolina -- in north carolina. hello. caller: hello. i would like to talk about

infrastructure on the roads and highways and secondary roads. there was a man who called that said something about making a better product for roads. it sounds like he is exactly right. i don't think it would be too expensive. i go to visit my mother every day. there is one road i drive on where they are building homes. that road has been paved and had potholes in it that are so deep you would lose your tire in it. it has been repaved 10 times. host: to both of you, talk and told bit more -- talk a little bit more about climate change

and having a plan that deals with climate change? guest: we need a proactive plan that works around environmental extremes but also our chronic. environmental problems it is -- our chronic environment problems. it is not just about hurricanes and problems like in texas. the daily flooding communities are experiencing, the heat in the summer's, higher levels of precipitation in communities. when we talk about climate, it can't just be one-off events. it is also systemic to how we should be talking about and planning around infrastructure so it is more cost-effective.

it can adapt to these needs over time in addition to perhaps mitigating the worst impacts to come which is where a lot of our energy issues come into play. infrastructure policy is climate policy. it is not a separate conversation. the ways in which we build our land how much we drive, how much water we use -- those all have a direct role to play and how we manage our climate. host: diane f -- diana furchtgott-roth, your thoughts? caller: we need -- guest: we need to measure what is going on. gps is used to measure the ice levels in antarctica, used to level soil moisture. it is used to measure different signs of climate change. this is another example of providing and preserving gps.

in terms of climate change and infrastructure, we need roads that have good paving, we need to give incentives to state and local governments to put more durable paving materials in. we need to make sure our electricity grid is sufficiently charged with enough energy, natural gas, enough energy that it won't go down in major storms we have. look at resilience, look at puerto rico after a hurricane, the solar panels look like -- and the wind turbines look like spaghetti. there is a concentration -- there is contradiction and what we're trying to do with renewable energy and making our energy grid resilient against major climate events. we need to be thinking about how

to do that. host: let's hear from tim in wisconsin. caller: i would like to say that i think we need a lot of infrastructure work. i worked on a britain in mississippi for collapsed on i-35 -- on a bridge in mississippi because it collapsed on i-35. i hope they federally mandate a wage so states where workers are making very little and pay very little income tax also have to contribute to pay for all of this. there are a lot of well for states -- welfare states taking a lot more than they are paying in. it is like a 4-1 ratio. the wages have been solo. i would like to see the wages be

mandated that they have to pay a federal living wage for this work. host: i'm going to have joseph kane have the final thought. if you could talk about the grade given to the u.s. about the american society of civil engineers, they grayed out infrastructure. the latest grade is c minus. what are the priorities for infrastructure? what needs to be done first? guest: there is an element to looking back as to what our infrastructure can't do, what the prevailing challenges are around maintenance of some of our aging transportation and water assets. but also the need to make larger capital upgrades in our energy systems and telecommunication systems in rural areas and urban areas. it is about acknowledging what some of our prevailing challenges are but also looking

forward as to what our infrastructure can do. how can it be a foundation to our economy, to our environment? also, to all of us? my colleagues and i have looked quite a bit that with those priorities should be. not only in terms of environmental issues, technological issues, workforce issues, and these fiscal issues we have been talking about for the past hour of how are we going to provide those durable, reliable revenues to pay for all of this. these are big generational investments that should not be taken lightly. there are going to be ongoing conversations and hopefully this policy window does not rush something out the door but can create the durable change we desperately need. host: joseph kane, diana furchtgott-roth, thank you

for your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: when we come back, tax filing season is around the corner and the irs's tax filing advocate, erin collins, will be here. we will be right back. ♪ >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's new store. go there to order a copy of the congressional directory, a book containing all the members of congress and including contact information. order your copy at c-spanshop.org. >> today, live coverage continues for the trial of derek chauvin who is charged in the

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c-span, on c-span.org, or listen on the free radio app. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, treated by america's cable television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these cable companies as a public service. >> washington journal continues -- "washington journal" continues. host: joining us is erin collins here to talk about the 2020 irs filing season. remind us, what is the irs tax advocate? guest: today is actually my one year anniversary, i was sworn in last year as the pandemic was picked -- was taking off.

the service our lead was created by congress to help taxpayers free of charge when facing financial difficulties, economic hardship, or handling problems within the irs when their systems have failed. our charge is to be the voice of taxpayers to advocate for solutions and make suggestions for administrative change within the irs in an effort to improve taxpayer service and protect taxpayers rights. we also have the privilege of making legislative recommendations to ensure pat -- in short taxpayer rights protected -- ensure taxpayer rights are protected. i expressed concerns on taxpayers'behalf within the irs and congress and had the ability to identify -- to propose change on their behalf. host: you will hear from those

taxpayers today. we want you to call and, if you live in the eastern part of the country, 202-748-8000. mountain or pacific, call 202-748-8001. -- guest: the irs has had a heavy lift. i know we like to focus on the things that go wrong, but we have to acknowledge the things that have gone right. last march, congress created the cares act that was signed into law by the president. that allowed the first set of stimulus payments to be issued. most of those payments went out in april and may of last year. at the end of december, congress enacted a second set of legislation that provided an additional $600 for individual and child. that was in january.

then recently congress initiated a third round of stimulus payments on behalf of taxpayers. that was $1400 for eligible individuals and $1400 for dependence. the irs -- for dependents. the irs has done a good job getting those checks out and a good timeframe. the last one, checks went out within 24 hours of the legislation being signed. we still have a challenge of getting it out to all taxpayers. that is usually an area we can focus on, how the irs can do better. host: what is the cause of people not receiving payments if they qualify? guest: it depends which set of stimulus checks. the irs has learned and created lessons learned from the first to the third payment.

the biggest challenge was getting everyone into the irs system. they waited legislation was written, it applies to all taxpayers whether or not they file a tax return or not. if they are eligible, if you were single it was below $75,000, you are entitled. if you did not file a tax return, the irs is not aware of your existence. the first and second round we had to get people into the system for the irs to pay. the irs works with the social security administration with respect to those individuals in the system. they had to get those files over to the irs so we could incorporate it and get those out the door. the biggest challenge of the remaining individuals, those who are homeless or don't have a permanent address, who don't have bank information, those are the ones it has been difficult getting payments out to. host: how has the pandemic

impacted the agency overall? guest: the pandemic has not been kind to anyone and the irs is no exception. i started march 30. that was the time the commissioner has shut down all offices across the united states. he put the health and safety of the employees as top priority. last year's filing season was very difficult and the irs is still digging out of a hole we have been dealing with in respect to last year. when you think about tax administration, it was created as a one time administration. every year people file tax returns, refunds are paid, and then you roll forward and having exterior. what has -- and you have the next year. congress has used the irs not only to be a tax administrator but to help with social programs. they have a number of credits

that are beneficial to individuals that the irs is administering. the child credit, many other credits the irs is involved in. stimulus payments are no different. the challenge is that some of the irs's technology is outdated and staffing has been reduced by about 20% over the last dated. if your staff is reduced, if your technology is outdated, you have an issue. the question i have is at what cost? you have to prioritize and something has got to give. a lot of individuals responsible for processing tax returns, answering telephones, working with taxpayers, they are stretched very thin. as a result, taxpayer service is suffering. for example, the song lines --

for example, the phone lines last year were difficult and this year is not much better. congress funds the irs to be responsible for six out of 10 calls. i don't think that is efficient. i would like to see the irs funded to receive 100% of calls. we are seeing there are days when it is less than 10% of those phone calls are able to be answered and that is due to an increased high volume of calls coming in. and, again, the challenge of having remote workers who are responsible to answer those calls. it was a difficult season last year and this year we are struggling as well. on one hand, thanks to congress because they have between the december legislation and the march legislation, they proposed taxpayer, -- taxpayer-favorable payments. the challenge to the irs is they

usually don't turn on a dime. their ip system is not created to do that. when you propose a legislation that impacts the filing season a month into filing season, it is difficult for the irs and for the taxpayers to make sure they get the benefits they are entitled to. host: the irs has extended the filing dates into may. how will that help? guest: in my role, i always look at what is the benefit to taxpayers but also how does it impact tax administration. the extension date is a great example of the dichotomy. for many individuals, having that individual month is helpful. it has been difficult for people to get assistance and prepare their returns. that gives them an additional month to file returns and pay. taxpayers have the ability to file the extension which is

automatic and would give them until october 15. the challenge i have on behalf of tax administration is every time we make a change to the irs i.t. system, that taxes the i.t. folks. when you think about irs folks, we talk about front-line people and all the benefits these individuals have provided. some of our i.t. folks have not had a break since last march. they have been working around the clock between stimulus payments, changes due to legislation. this is no different. we have a challenge going on now getting stimulus payments out the door. at the last count, we were in excess of 130 million payments made to individuals and families. they are doing a tremendous job trying to get it out. we will always be the first to say we can do is better and we can make sure we can get 100% coverage. host: we will go to calls.

from greenwich, new york. go ahead. caller: i have a question in regard to the 30 million americans on social security, disability, that kind of thing. the stimulus payments -- nobody is getting them. most people, as far as people i speak to, it is because of the and resolve -- because of david black working there at social security. there are people who need the money. i'm curious if you're entertaining the thought of speaking to congress. they are trumping appointees -- they are trump appointees. can you explain when people get their money?

i think it is because of these two gentlemen. guest: i am not sure i agree with that. when you talk about the 30 million individuals, i assume you're talking about those not filing tax returns. they are not currently in the irs system. the irs has reached out to the veterans administration to get the file information. their name, social security number, direct deposits to send checks to. that has to be updated every year. the irs received the information from social security information and is in the process. i've talked to some individuals and payments have started going out the door or showing up in their bank account. i think you will see the remaining group of individuals that comes back to payments coming out the door in the near future. hopefully those folks will start to receive checks in the mail.

it could be a prepaid debit card. we always remind people that even though it looks like junk mail, open your mail. do not throw them out and hopefully payments will be coming out shortly. host: mike in sioux falls, south dakota sends us a text. if i make less than $25,000 a year and all of my income is social security, do i need to file a federal tax form? guest: i will answer generally because tax is not simple. i believe the answer is no you do not. if you're only income is $25,000, that should not be a problem. if you're interested in getting the stimulus payment and not having to wait for the irs, you can file a tax return even though it has a zero tax impact. that way you are in the system, the irs has your information if there would be future payments. you may also have other benefits

that a tax return would allow you. host: lynn in utah, good morning. caller: good morning. this $1400 check we will get, will we pay taxes on it? guest: no. that is a good question that has come up. all the stimulus payments are not taxable. you do not have to include them in your income for tax purposes. i think the states are following that rule. host: we will go to anthony in brooklyn. caller: good morning. i have a couple of questions about things i have heard. first of all, i heard the irs was sending out letters for this tech season -- for this tax

season for identification purposes and that they would not make direct deposits on the texas. -- on the taxes. guest: let me address the second part, the irs is making direct deposits if we have your banking information on file. if you file a tax return and you are requesting a refund, there is a line where you can provide your bank routing information. if the irs has that information, they will be making the payment by direct deposit. if there is a problem with the bank information or the money gets returned to the irs, they will subsequently send you a check. they are making those direct deposits. hopefully you will start to see those payments going out the door. host: eddie in michigan, good morning. caller: how are you doing? guest: i am well, thank you. caller: this is concerning me.

i got the first stimulus check direct deposit in my credit union. then i also got the $600 stimulus check, direct deposit in my credit union. now i get ssi which i did not have to file taxes for the $1200 or $4600. -- for the $600. i have not received the $1400 at all. nothing has changed. my status is the same. this website y'all have up, i tried using that. for some reason that is not working right. for some reason you can never get through on a good day or a bad day.

you can't get through to talk to a live voice. what i'm asking you is when will i be receiving my stimulus check? guest: i am glad to hear you received your first two checks without any problems. as i indicated earlier, the irs received the information from social security and the veterans administration. those checks are in the process of being processed. you should see your check in another week or two. we all want things done quicker or better but the legislation just passed march 11. it has only been two weeks. i know everyone needs their money and we want to get that money out as quick as possible. the checks will be coming in the near future or deposits will be made with respect to social security. you do not have to do anything

additional. you brought up the "get my payment" which is a tool the irs has. that allows you to login to see the status of your payment. once the irs processes your payment, they will update the "get my payment" account and you will be able to see if it was sent by direct up -- direct deposit and what the amount is. you are very frustrated because right now it is probably saying you are not eligible or it is not processed. i will keep my fingers crossed for you that in a week or two that is updated and you will see the payments. host: another text, this from one of our viewers who writes in that her sister died from covid-19 on april 27, 2020. there is a stimulus check that came in under her name. "i would like to know if that check can still be deposited

into her state -- into her estate account." guest: the first round of stimulus had to do with 2020. congress referred to it as an advance payment on your 2020 return. as long as you are alive january 1, 2020, you are entitled to those benefits. i'm sorry to hear about the loss of your sister passing but she is qualified to receive the payment for 2020. host: larry in tuscaloosa, alabama. caller: good morning. i have a comment into two questions. the irs is in help of need -- is in need of help. they are in need because when

you have people in prison receiving unemployment and stimulus, when you have illegal immigrants receiving unemployment and stimulus, the irs needs some help. my first and second question to you, if people receive the stimulus and they are on ssi, like some of the callers, if they don't have any income and they are still waiting for their stimulus, can they file a "rebate recovery credit?" the second one is dealing with -- why is it the person who is sending the form off with their name on top, they are going to

get charged and the person who prepares the form will get -- i would like to hear from you if you could elaborate on that. they keep a much. -- thank you very much. guest: i will see if i remember all of the pieces. you correctly pointed out the irs has had a difficult last decade. the budget has been reduced by about 20% over the past decade. that was a real challenge. it impacts hiring, staffing, there have been challenges there. in essence, i am a strong believer all of us deserve a functioning tax administration on behalf of the u.s.. it is imperative they have the adequate funds to serve taxpayers and provide us the assistance we need to comply

with tax laws. as you pointed out, the rebate credit is what the text technical term is for the stimulus payments. if you did receive the payments, you do not have to file a tax return if you received the correct amount in 2020 from the first or second stimulus. you would not be required to file it in order to receive the third stimulus. some taxpayers have filed to get their information within the irs. if there are future payments, it can be made. your third point had to do with penalties and return preparers. fyi, there are penalties that also apply to return preparers. if you return preparer does not do due diligence, they may be subject to entities -- to penalties with respect to the

irs. we ask our agents to make sure they properly and accurately file tax returns on your behalf. they are responsible. they are responsible to you but also potentially responsible for penalties if they are preparing a false return. host: samantha, ohio. caller: good morning. i just received social security, disability, and the last two stimulus checks were direct deposited. this time we have not received any direct deposit. i found out that for the last two rounds, people who received paper checks have now gotten direct deposit.

the irs has out information from the last two stimulus. why the change this time? guest: i will start at the end. the irs does not have your current data. what they have done is reached out to the social security administration to verify, for example, that you live at the same address and have the same information because the information they have is one year old. they do not want to send payments to the my account. they're working to get your most up-to-date information so they can get those deposits out. the preface the irs has is to do direct deposits. even the u.s. has restrictions on how much money can go out the door in certain manners, how

much can be direct deposited, how many checks can go out the door. there are challenges. there are times in order to get money out quickly, it could go out in direct deposit or in checks. the irs is pushing to get the money out as quick as possible -- as quickly as possible and work within the restrictions we have. host: a text, "i lost my job in 2020, i made $70,000 in 2019. i received the first stimulus and some of the second. for the third stimulus i received $40. how is it possible they changed the formula so drastically?" guest: there is a lot in the provision. what congress intended is called a opry quote -- is called an --

is called a "recovery rebate credit." they didn't want taxpayers to have to wait to file a return until march or april this year. they instructed the irs to rely on taxpayers' 2018 or 2019 income levels to get payments out the door rather than wait for your 2020 income. i believe the color indicated in 2020 they were on unemployment and income was reduced. if your 2020 income -- if you are single, $75,000 or below, you are entitled to the maximum amount forced me this permit one, stimulate -- for the stimulus payment one, two, and three. the irs information they had on

you west your 2019 return. you can now file your 2020 return. if you received less than you believe you were entitled to, you would put the amount you did not receive online 30. for example -- on line 30. let's say you received $1000. you would file your 2020 return and ask for the additional $200 on your 2020 return. you should be getting the payment. also, stimulus payment number three you are receiving is based off a prior year's return. if you get your 2020 return into the irs, they are hoping they will be able to adjust their ip programming that once those 2020 returns are being processed and in the system, after that period of time it will not be tomorrow

-- that period of time -- it will not be tomorrow -- in the foreseeable future the irs willy you the amount so you do not have to wait to file your return for 2021 next february, march of 2022. that is a lot of information, but hopefully that answers your question. host: steve wants to know, what is the arbiter wait between filing electronically and getting your return deposited? guest: like everything in life, that depends, but the general rule to follow is if there are no issues with the electronic the filed return, the guidance is under 21 days. to be honest, i think most times it is under a week, and sometimes it is within days. again, the caveat is if there are no processing errors. we have a couple of issues that

taxpayers are dealing with this year. it is kind of a good and bad news. the good news is congress changed the law at the end of december and changed the law in march. for example, on unemployment insurance. and since they made the law change, what is happening is the irs has to manually make some of those adjustments. at the end of december, congress changed the law with respect to determining your credit. for example, if you have earned income tax credit, it is computed based on your adjusted gross income. a lot of taxpayers received unemployment, lost their jobs during covid, and when you look at the tax consequences, in order to calculate your credit, they do not include unemployment compensation. so a lot of the credits would have been reduced this year. but what congress did was it gave taxpayers the ability to elect. you can use your 2020 income or your 2019 income in order to get

the maximum amount of credits, which is great for a lot of people. there are probably millions of people who will get a benefit from this. the challenge is they made that legislation literally at the end of december and the irs filing season started in early february, so the irs was not able to program it systems. if you were one of those individuals electing to rely on your 2019 income for the childcare or eitc credits, what is happening is the irs is pulling those electronic file returns and they have to manually verify your 2019 income. that is substantially slowing down the process. if that is something you have on your return, it is going to expend well -- extend well past that when he went days when you see those refunds. -- past the 21 days when you see

those refunds. the irs staff, they currently have to when he 5 million returns they are try to process. if it is electronic, there are no problems with the return. it does not require a manual computation or verification. in my opinion, it will be under a week before you see that deposit in the bank account. host: minnesota. caller: yes, ma'am. host: billy, go ahead. turn down that television. just listen to us through your phone. all right, billy, are you there? caller: yes, ma'am. host: go ahead. caller: i was just wondering -- i live on social security, but i only get $738 a month. so i don't have to file income

tax because i am so far down the poverty level. and i was wondering, how will i get my stimulus? and would it be cut because i mix a little? guest: did you receive the first or second stimulus payments? host: i apologize. i did not realize. he is not there anymore. guest: i will answer the hypothetical then. if you received the first or second payment, the irs has you in their system. they will use your current information and those checks will either be mailed or direct deposits will be sent. we have seen a handful already made. i suspect it will be over the next few weeks that those payments are going to start hitting those accounts. host: larry in san antonio. caller: hi.

i have not received any stimulus checks yet. i am self-employed. i have not filed by 2020 taxes yet. if i file my taxes, can i expect to receive any checks? guest: yes. so if you did not receive it for the first or second payment but you did qualify, again, online 30 of your 1040, it says recovery rebate credit. you would put the amount you are entitled to for the first payment and the second payment on that line. hypothetically, $1200 for the first payment, $600 for the second payment, so it would be $1800 you would be asking the irs to give you credit for with your 2020 return. once you file your 2020 return, irs will use that information to issue your third stimulus check. so again, if you are under the $75,000, which it sounds like you are, you would receive that third payment after the

processing of your 2020 return. there could be a couple months delay to get that third payment of a so the system and have those payments made, the better. so if you can get the 2020 return, you can claim that credit for the $1800. host: in temple hills, maryland, you are next. caller: good morning. how are you? host: morning. caller: i just had a question. i received the first payment, the $1200 payment, but i had to close that bank account. and i was wondering if the irs -- because i have not yet received the $600 payment or the $1400 payment. i was wondering if the irs is going to submit to my most recent address like on my 2019 taxes, and i have not filed my 2020 tax returns. guest: so what the irs should be

using is their most current information on your address. if your 2020 return is your correct address, then they should have mailed a paper check if your banking information in essence got bounced. if you closed your account, the bank would send the money back to treasury, and treasury would adjust your account and they should reissue a paper check. if you have not received the second payment, again, i would file your 2020 return, provide your current bank information, and that will allow the irs to make a direct deposit of that $600 you are entitled to from the second stimulus. and then once you are in the system, the irs will issue the additional, you qualified, $1400 for the third stimulus. if you get the return in the system, you will get the second payment as well as the third a lot quicker. host: mark in eastpoint, georgia, once to know, what about the people who did not get

stimulus payments but have money from their 401(k)? do we have to claim it as income this year? guest: that's a good question, and i'm going to be honest, i don't know the answer. i hate to give you incorrect advice. i know the irs has on their website, irs.gov, a whole section on covid frequently asked questions. i am seeing those questions i believe that is one of them. i just unfortunately don't know the answer off the top of my head and don't want to give you incorrect tax information. check irs.gov. that information will be there. host: we are showing it now on their screen. melvin in fort pierce, florida. caller: hello. good morning, greta. good morning, miss collins. thank you both. i was calling to ask a question in regards to nonprofits. are nonprofit organizations go into or are they able to receive stimulus checks?

if they are still in this grant or something like that. guest: to answer your question, the stimulus checks are issued to individuals. the nonprofit would not qualify. so the checks are going out to individuals, they go out to their dependents as well. so if you have children, let's say 10 to 12, the parent would receive stimulus checks on their behalf and on the behalf of their two children. but the checks are not to entities or nonprofits. host: debra lee wants to know from you, miss collins, as someone who has won awards for your work and litigation of high-profile complex tax cases and now advocates for taxpayers, what is the ability of billionaires who pay $750 billion in taxes on corporations that pay zero? guest: looks like someone read my bio. thank you for that. at the end of the day, the

question is, did they follow the law? there are many tax benefits, whether for billionaires or whether or not they are for lower income individuals where congress has determined that they are entitled to certain benefits from us for the real question is not, do i think as tax policy what billionaires should be paying or not. the real question is, are the billionaires properly recording based on the laws as written? as a society, if we have a problem with billionaires having those benefits, then we need to change the law. it really is a question. the other challenge is, and has been a lot of press about this, is the irs currently auditing the right people? that comes down to a budget issue. i think a lot of the things the irs is being faulted for, they don't disagree that they would like to do more. it is just financially without the additional staff and the financial support, it is

difficult to do everything that we would all like to see them do. host: lewis, salisbury, north carolina. caller: yes, top of the morning. earlier today, a gentleman called in and said something about the two other gentlemen that are over in the trump administration. he said something like, you don't think it is because of that. i called my congressman, i called the senators, and let them know certain people were not receiving their money. the secretary of social security , a letter saying this money is not being sent out, and all of a sudden now they sent the money to the irs, which we should be already in the government in the first place and we should have gotten it. do you think those two gentlemen were -- i am sure c-span has the documentation that congress sent

them a letter and they have a response. you think that was a sabotage from the trump leftovers? guest: my personal opinion, absolutely not. i know the commissioner very well. i cannot really speak on his behalf. i can tell you since my year being a national taxpayer advocate, i have seen the commissioner bend over backwards to make sure the taxpayers are protected and getting the money out the door. again, when you think about it, the law was passed less than two weeks ago. they have already paid 137 million payments have gotten out the door on behalf of taxpayers, and they are intending to get the remaining humans out in the near future is the goal. we all have been sort of spoil because the irs has made such quick payments. if you think about more than 10 years ago, the last set of stimulus payments, the checks did not go out for six to eight weeks from the time the law was initiated. again, we absolutely want that money to go out and get out

there quicker, but i do not believe there is any foul play with respect in getting the money out the door. it is my opinion. i do see every day the commissioner as well as others working very hard to get the money out the door to individuals that are in need. host: let's go to gia, annandale, virginia. caller: yes. thank you for taking my call. my question is regarding inmates. i don't they are eligible for their stimulus. however, i don't know how. can they apply? or do their family numbers have to apply for them? if so, how do we go about that? guest: the inmates is an additional challenge because they have limited access to internet, mail issues. again, assuming they meet the criteria, i will assume single, under $75,000 a year, they would qualify, so they would have to have a tax return in the system

and on the tax return they can either provide a mailing address or they could provide bank routing information. if the irs has not, the payment can be made. i have heard anecdotally there are challenges of getting the payments to the prisoners depending on what facilities they are at, but those are additional challenges they are having to deal with. absolutely, if they do qualify based on their adjusted gross income, they can file a joint return with the spouse. they can file on their own. once that information is in the system, those checks should be going out. host: through the q&a section of the irs website to enter that caller's question about the 401 distribution. i want to make sure this sounds right to you. first of all, the irs is the coronavirus distribution is made from an eligible retirement plan to a qualified individual

between january 1 of 2020 to december 30 of 2020 up to an aggregate limit of $100,000 from all plans and ira's. and then it goes on to say, do i have to pay the 10% additional tax on a coronavirus related distribution from my retirement plan or ira? no. it does not apply to any coronavirus related distributions. erin collins? guest: i think that is correct. when we talk about the initial tax, if you pull your money out early from an ira, it is in essence a penalty for pulling the money out sooner. what congress is doing is allowing people to have access to their ira's in order to pay their basic necessities that they are in need for. what that section is referring to is saying you do not pay the normal penalty you would have to pay by pulling the money out earlier. thank you to your producer for

pulling that out. it is somewhat complicated, but there is specific information on this issue on the website that i am seeing on your screen there. host: william, pleasantville, new york. caller: yes. good morning. getting away from the stimulus money and looking for a little help or advice on something, some problems i am having. i wanted to ask a question. i am a disabled veteran. my son committed suicide a number of years ago. my wife fell off the deep end and became mental with bipolar, and then we got in trouble on taxes, and also i am a cancer survivor and all that. i have a company helping me out with 2017 and 2018. does the irs, you folks, take

into consideration people's service to the country and also things that have happened to them in their lives that affect things? if i get hit with some of these big bills, it is going to destroy me. i hope they can help me out. host: erin collins? guest: so, first of all, i am very sorry to hear about some of the challenges you are facing. and thank you for your service. the irs will work with you with respect to payment options. depending on what your finances are, the irs has the ability to reduce potential tax liabilities as part of an offer compromised where you can agree to an outcome. it is usually based on your financial outcome. we can work with you with respect to postponing payments. we can work with you with respect to doing an installment agreement. so my recommendation would be to get current in the system, work

with the irs, and if that is not going well and you are having problems with the irs and they are unable to move forward, you can always reach out to my office, which is the taxpayer advocate service, because those are situations where we work with taxpayers and basically as i would name implies, we advocate. taxpayer advocate service, we advocate on your behalf with respect to the irs. i first recognition would be to getting your system and work with the irs with respect to either a payment plan or an offer of compromise to reduce the liability or eliminate the liability. if all else fails, you can reach out to the taxpayer advocate service. host: we were just showing your website. irs.gov/taxpayeradvocate. you can also follow them at your voice at irs. north carolina. caller: yes. good morning, ladies. my question is, has it got to

show up on the get my payment website before you actually get the payment, or can you actually get the payment and it not show up on the get my payment deal? guest: assuming everything is working right, it should go up almost simultaneously on the get my payment at as of the time the irs mailed the payment or sent the information to your bank to have it deposited. they should happen around the same time. hopefully that is not a challenge. but again, with programming and i.t. challenges, there are sometimes delays, but the intent is to get the information out there as quick as possible. host: daniel in cincinnati. caller: good morning. inc. you for taking my call. my question is a little interesting. i did receive the first stimulus payment. i did not -- which was $1200.

i did not receive the second stimulus payment for $600. i did receive the third payment for $1400. but most recently, i received a letter from the irs dated march 12 which said that you would receive this $600 within seven days of this letter. that date came around. i called the irs, and they said, excuse me, that letter reflected a payment that should have gone out in january. my response was, you mean the letter i received dated march 12 was about a payment i was supposed to get in january and that payment has not come, so what should i do? they asked me to wait a little while longer and they would put

a trace on it. i guess it just seemed pretty odd. i have been in the system for 20 years as far as filings go, but i did not know why that happened. guest: yeah, unfortunately what you are saying makes perfect sense. it sounds like the irs believes the payment was made at the end of january because they normally send out that letter, a notice that the payment has been sent. usually it is two weeks, six to eight weeks that that was out. if you did not receive the payment as the person indicated that you spoke to, i assume a customer service representative, you have the ability to put on a tracer or trace my payment. there is a phone number the irs has. sad that i know this. 800-919-9835. that is where you would call to

initiate the trace for the payment, and they also have a form called a 3911 that he would file with the irs to request for them to trace it. if they can show the payment was not negotiated they would then reissue the check. unfortunately, it will not be tomorrow. it is a period of time before this thing gets processed, but you need to get in the system to get that moving so you can get that payment. the other option, if you file your 2020 return and request that as a rebate credit of that $600 online 30, i will give you a heads up right now, if your records are inconsistent with the irs records, that will bounce your return, and the irs has to manually process that. if you have other refunds coming , the fact that the irs reflects the $600 and you are now asking for it on your return is going to cause an inconsistency to have that return pulled out.

if you don't have any other credits or other refunds, that may be a quicker way to get it done. but unfortunately, it sounds like the irs believes the payment was going out and we need to find out what happened to that payment so we can get it reversed and get that money issued to you. host: michigan. caller: yes. my name is ralph. i hope you can help us out. we filed our income tax. we owe like $1600 to the federal government. why that is, my wife collected $16,000 on unemployment. she had taxes taken out, but i guess not enough. we are hearing that in the taxes, i guess with the irs or this last bill, they are going to forgive the first $10,000 of the unemployment. i tried calling the irs.

i tried calling senators, everybody. i cannot get an answer from nobody. nobody answers the phone ever. what would this $10,000 kick in? because i guess we have to file amendment taxes. ok, thank you. i will listen to my answer. guest: you bring up a great question. you are not the only one asking this question. i will have a before and after answer. if you have previously filed your return, and it sounds like you have done that, you are in a different category. so we will deal with that in a second. if you have not filed your return, the irs has updated its forms, and all of the software companies in order to file a return have also updated the board. going forward for taxpayers, i think after march 20, the software on the irs forms have been corrected to reduce the $10,200 from your income so that

you don't pay tax on the additional benefit that congress gave as part of the march 11 legislation. but if you have filed the return and included income, what the irs is trying to do is they are trying to automatically reprocess those we turns, and in my opinion, it will be millions of returns picking up the additional $10,200. their goal is to then automatically refund the money to the taxpayers. do not, do not file amended returns, because that will slow down the process. irs is hoping to get guidance out in the near future. it is a very complicated transaction for them to do because many taxpayers have different situations. you can be single, married filing separately, married filing jointly, you can have a household, credits, other benefits so the question the irs is asking, legally, can they

make adjustments without requiring an amended return? if so, do they have the i.t. capability to make that adjustment for all taxpayers? this is a very big issue impacting a lot of taxpayers. i suspect millions of taxpayers. i hate to say this, but stay tuned because if the irs can automatically process this, it is going to be better for you to wait, and it will be better for all taxpayers because being flooded with an additional one million, 2 million, 3 million paper or electronic returns that have to be manually processed is just going to slow it down for everyone. i am sure people are impatient. they want their money. they paid into the system. but at this point, stay tuned. keep an i on the news. i suspect what's the irs announces this, you will see it in every newspaper across the country as to what you need to do in order to get that benefit, but it sounds like by reducing your income by the $10,200, it

may eliminate the tax liability you have. host: erin collins, adding onto that, how long does it take to process a payment return? guest: that's not an easy question. so last year, there were over, i believe, 16 million paper returns that were filed by the end of december. there was 6.7 million of those paper returns still not processed. that is very atypical. usually the irs has substantially all of those returns processed before the end of the tax year. unfortunately this finding season, we already started in the hole of getting all those returns processed. paper is not the irs's friend right now and not your friend. if you have the ability to file electronically, find a friend, find a family member. irs has a free filing electronic system online called free file.

that you may be able to use to file your return. but make every effort this year to file electronically in order to ensure a timeliness of your refunds you are entitled to. host: live oak, florida. caller: hello. host: hi, rob. go ahead. caller: yes. yes. i was just calling today to let ms. collins know that she is doing a very good job today on the income tax and the stimulus payments, especially this third stimulus check for people who don't file income tax and are still waiting to receive their third stimulus checks, as i am. i just wanted to let her know she is doing a very, very good

job with all her explanations. that helps us very much. i just wanted to call and let her know that and thank her for all the great information. guest: i appreciate hearing that. i will be the first to say it is a team effort. everything the irs does, it takes a village. it takes a lot of people to get things moving. appreciate the comment. greta, back to you. host: erin collins, i just want to echo that collar and say on behalf of our audience, thank you for coming on the program, spending an hour of your time with us, and answering their questions, especially the stimulus payment questions you got pretty much all the questions were about that. you can tell a lot of people have not received it or have questions about it. thank you. guest: i appreciate it. thank you for having me. i think it is important to get the information out there. host: our viewers can learn more

if they go to irs.gov/taxpayer-advocate. that does it for today's "washington journal." thank you for watching. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. enjoy the rest of your day. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government created by america's cable television companies in 1979. today, we are brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span2 viewers as a public service.