book "lessons from the least of these," and at 9:15 a.m., the reporter gives her host: good morning, everyone. wednesday, march 31, 2021. according to the c.d.c. more than 85.5 million people in the united states have received at least one dose of a vaccine. covid-19 vaccine. this morning, we want to check in with all of you about whether or not you intend to get the vaccine. if you already have, dial in at 202-748-8000. if you are waiting, 202-848-

7881. or if you're not getting one. 202-748-8003. also text us with your first name, city, state, 202-748-8003. or a fweet with the handle @cspanwj or go to facebook.com/c-span. we'll get your thoughts here in a minute. look at the numbers from the c.d.c. they show that 46.4 million people around 14% of u.s. population have been fully vaccinated. you heard the president say he wants 90% of adults to be able to get the vaccine by later in april. this morning with the headline, america is now on track to be vaccinated, all adults, by july 4. they say america's administering nearly 2.8 million vaccine doses a day. roughly enough to hit that july

4 deadline. that would mean 80% of the population would be able to get a vaccine. from the "wall street journal," they did a survey and found a shrinking percentage of americans are expressing reluctance to get the covid-19 vaccine. a positive sign, they say, for the efforts to get shots in the arms of enough people to reach herd immunity. this comes as president biden and health care officials are warning of a fourth surge. the n.p.r. headlines, is a fourth wave of the pandemic on the horizon? a state's open covid-19 19 cases rise. listen to the president. president biden: most importantly f. we let our guard down now we could see a virus getting worse not better. as many people as we vaccinated, we still have more americans left to go. we will administer more shots in march than any country on earth. but even so, we have to give more shots in april than we did

in march. because we are in a life and death race with a virus that is spreading quickly with cases rising again, new variants are spreading, and sadly, some of the reckless behavior we have seen on television over the past few weeks means that more new cases are to come in the weeks ahead. with vaccines there is hope. which is very good thing to state the obvious. but people are letting up on precautions. which is a very bad thing. to this point, cases have fallen 2/3 since i took office. deaths have fallen 2/3. now cases are going back up. some states, deaths are as well. we are giving up a hard fought, hard won gains. as much as we are doing, america, it's time to do even more. all of us have to do our part.

every one of us. host: president biden from earlier this week. have you received a covid-19 vaccine? george in highland, michigan, is waiting. george, welcome back to the program. caller: hey, how you doing. what's up? host: you're waiting for a vaccine, george. why is that? caller: let me make two quick points before i answer that. more than 10 years ago i called brian lamb when he was hosting told him i would love to get a regular contributor -- contributors about animal rights. and study after study show -- people that harm animals usually go on to life of crime, might be some relation to all these mass shootings. i don't know. i'm hoping we can get regular animal rights people on your show. host: george, stick to the

topic. caller: yes, ma'am. i am scheduled for monday, next monday, finally. i have been wanting to get the vaccine. i called my local rite aid pharmacy a number of times. i qualified. they were always busy. didn't have openings. even -- university of michigan facilities didn't have enough doses. so i finally got a letter say hi been a previous patient and said you're now eligible. we have enough vaccines. come on in monday. i go on monday. host: george, first off. you're getting the two shot vaccination? caller: i don't know. i'm guessing. they don't tell you too much before you go in. schedule for two shots? they said you'll find out when you go in monday.

host: george, i think you have told us before. if you don't mind saying again, how old are you? caller: i'm 68. i look 22. you remember that? host: all those pushups -- pull-ups. caller: how about that. you remember that? host: i'm wondering. you're 68. what has taken so long for you to get in the queue? caller: i don't know. i go to my pharmacy and pick up my regular medications. they said we don't have any information. then when they finally got some, probably a month or so ago rite-aid started getting them. i called their hotline or whatever it is. six, seven eight locations around here qualified but they said they don't have doses. my local doctor, my family doctor says on his recording

when you call we don't know anything about covid. call the covid hotline. i just kept waiting. here i am. host: george. anthony, hacketstown, new jersey, you received both doses anthony? one shot in? caller: no. i have received both. good morning to you. i do like c-span. i think they are very unbiased in their reporting. i called my provider mid january and they said give us two weeks. the day the blizzard up here in beginning of february they called me, said come in. i was there that thursday. two days later. i was first person. they actually took my picture. i went back three weeks late. now it's almost four weeks since i received both moderna. it was quick. it was painless. i mean i didn't even feel the shot. very, very little side effect. if you don't get it, i think

you're kind of nuts. host: anthony, have you changed your lifestyle since you have become fully vaccinated? caller: if i go out, i still wear a mask. there is one thing i can say, please don't take it the wrong way, for the last year i have been -- i walk every day, even though i have a mask on. i have been seeing rubber gloves and masks discarded on the sidewalk. this is still medical waste. please, people, put them in the garbage when you're done with them. host: all right. anthony. here is harry until pennsylvania with a text to us. had second dose last month. don't thank trump or biden, thank the v.a. hospital in pittsburgh. mark in melbourne, florida. mark, you have been waiting. how long? caller: hello. host: hi, mark. caller: hi, how you doing, greta. host: good morning. you are waiting. what's the holdup?

caller: let me tell you my -- what's going on with me. on march 15 governor desantis lowered the age to receive the vaccine to 60 or over and i'm 62 years old. on the same day t. google stopped using internet explorer to download or upload things. and now i have to get a new -- i have to go to google chrome which i'm having trouble doing. it is very, very frustrating. i do not understand why you just cannot make a phone call to these various agencies and register. you have to do it online. host: have you gone to your local library, mark?

have you tried that route? caller: no, i haven't, because -- host: to use their computer. caller: i'm not -- those websites are not secure. and i am not going to put my social security number online if it's not secure. host: got it. mark in melbourne, florida. victor, birmingham, alabama. good morning to you. tell us your story. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: good morning. host: we are listening. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, we can. caller: ok. greta, i just wanted to let you know i get my second shot, me and my wife, tomorrow. host: ok. how did it go the first time around? caller: the first time i was there about seven hours. we was in a car. we was in my truck. we waited and waited. and the line moved slowly. but you finally made it. host: what was it like to sign

up? caller: it was ok because -- what i really wanted to say i took the shots because we open in birmingham, alabama, on the 9th. tfering we would be open. you need the shot down here. you really do. and then i advise people to take the shot and get both. we got pfizer. the thing is, is that people don't understand how important it is being around your family again. host: so you -- caller: that's the most important thing. host: you were motivated by your state opening back up and the need to be with your family again. caller: yes, ma'am. host: all right. dennis, toledo, iowa. hi, dennis. caller: hi, i get my second shot

today, 11:00 your time. 10:00 iowa time. the first shot, my arm was a little bit sore but when -- i'm getting it done today like i said at 11:00 your time. host: denny, what was the communication like in your state? who reached out to you? how did you know that you were able to get in the queue for vaccination? caller: it was in the papers. the governor she talked some. the general public in iowa this coming monday everyone can get it. i'm 70 years old. so i'm old and they wanted us old people to get it first. host: sure. in the coming week, the general

population will be able to get it. caller: monday. she said, april 5. everyone's supposed to be able to get it. host: what are you looking forward to, dennis, when things go back to normal? caller: i hope -- a lot of these shows people go, it would be nice to get back to normal. i just hope everybody gets it. you don't have to -- few months we won't have to be wearing facemasks and stuff like that. host: ok. c.d.c. director dr. walensky made the case for getting vaccinated. listen to what she said. >> i'm going to pause here. lose the script. and reflect on the recurring feeling i have of impending doom. we have so much to look forward to.

so much promise and potential of where we are. and so much reason for hope. right now i'm scared. i know what it's like as a physician to stand in that patient room, gowns, masks, shielded. the last person to touch someone else's loved one because their loved one couldn't be there. i know what it's like when you are a physician, health care provider, and you are worried you don't have the resources to take care of the patients in front of you. i know that feeling of nausea when you read the crisis standards of care and you wonder whether there are going to be enough ventilators to go around and who is going to make that choice. and i know what it's like to go to your hospital every day and see the extra morgue sitting outside. i didn't know at the time when it would stop. we didn't have the science to tell us. we were just scared. we have come such a long way.

three historic, scientific breakthrough vaccines and we are rolling them out so very fast. so i'm speaking today not necessarily as your c.d.c. director, not only as your c.d.c. director, but as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter. to ask you to just please hold on a little while longer. host: dr. walensky, the c.d.c. director. do you agree or disagree with her? if you are not plapping to get tell us why. 202-748-8002. if you're not sure, 202- 748-8003. walter in indiana, you're waiting. caller: i always enjoy you because you seem to have fun and have a contagious smile. you put a smirk on i can imagine some of the thoughts in your head. i like when you're on. i try to call in. my situation is last time i was

at the doctor when he i was 18 years old, joining the united states army, i haven't been back to a doctor since. i'm 65 years old. and when this whole corona thing started. i hunkered down in my bunker i went and bought 400 bottles of 400 bottles of whiskey. i loaded up on cigars. and got corn beef hash and spam. i have been hanging out in my bunker ever since. i plan on getting the coronavirus shot when they say it's not needed anymore and everything is fine and i'll just be obstinate and go. this is the biggest scam put upon america. you're born, you die, nobody gets out alive. the crazy thing is all these people running around with a stupid mask. unless it's an n-95 mask and you are wearing goggles, it's useless. if you think you're doing benefit to people. it's the biggest scam. what i think it is it's an opportunity for the government to see how client and afraid

people will be to -- compliant and afraid people will be. when a person is afraid they listen to authority. we got in wooden boats crossed the atlantic. won two wars. built an enpirme. we are running around with little children with a mask on. it's not when you die it's how you live. when you're going to die. i haven't been to a doctor's office since i was 65. i don't take vitamins. i don't eat well. i do what i want. when you go, you go. host: burning question. how much of that whiskey is left? caller: well, you see that's what it is. i might have -- i have to make a trip to the store. when i do go out i would never wear a mask. matter of fact i'm sarcastic and i go to wal-mart and everyone is running around with a bubble on i pretend i have a could have and i could have -- cough. i could probably last another five or six months. maybe seven months depending. until there is a new crisis and everybody runs around. the funny thing is they are talking about worrying about

life. they haven't shuttered an abortion clinic. i'm a knee -- neanderthal. u.s. army. patriot. you have a personality, that pops out on the screen. that's about all i got to say. i'm good on the spam. i still got spam. remember that used to open it up put it in a frying pan. host: walter, after this diet you may want to see a doctor. caller: i haven't been to a doctor in 40 years. you going to die? nobody gets out alive. whatever. the mystery of life. what's my endgame? a nursing home? not knowing what i'm doing with drool out of my mouth and everybody around me has been dead. not on my watch. host: scott. bay city, michigan. you're next. you are not going to get it. tell us why. caller: i got the wrong one because i got -- did get my shot just yesterday. host: that's ok. why did you decide to get it? caller: got too many people.

my family got the covid. some people down from them died from it. i decided i'd finally get it. host: all right. what was the process like? caller: just get it at the time. go in the line. stay in the line. get shot. wait 15 minutes. drive away. but the problem is that it doesn't really matter about getting the shots anymore because they open up the border and they are let --letting people with covid all over the united states. we are going to have another surge. it's coming from the south. it ain't coming from china no more. it's come interesting the south. host: what evidence do you have of that? caller: have you watched tv to see how many people have been let out of the places down there with positive covid? so if there is 108 people that's had covid, they let that group

out into somebody else's community, what is going to happen? they are going to get more covid spikes. shut the border off. you are never going to stop this stuff. host: scott, our last hour of today's "washington journal," we'll talk with a reporter from the southern border about what is happening there. we'll get more details. she's been covering the border story for a while. we'll talk to her and get details from her. it vox recode story put together some answers about why folks are not getting vaccinated. some respondants indicated general health concerns. 45% of those who said they definitely would not get the vaccine feared side effects. and 40% said they wanted to wait to see if vaccines were safe. other studies, more conspiratorial reasons, 29% not wanting the vaccine saying they

didn't trust vaccines. 27% saying they didn't trust the government. meanwhile 20% said they dew point think the vaccine would work. steve in topeka, kansas, you're next. caller: good morning, greta. we are a few miles from texas. one thing it seems like we are getting off topic which is funny because the guy said he was a neanderthal not worried. if he was truly a neanderthal he probably was exposed a million years ago so no wonder he's not affected by it. i had the shot, my wife had the second shot, pfizer shot. i go monday. she was sick. very sick. and she was sick for several days. same thing with second shot. she's fine now. she just went off to a step class. first shot, the pfizer shot, first shot, sore arm. second shot, absolutely no reaction. not even a sore arm. in kansas, it's fantastic.

the governor always letting us know what's going on. i went to what they call the expo center, the small coliseum we have here. probably holds several thousand people. they have it all staged out. people are going through several lines. i think in kansas it's so well organized. i have been on the line. online registration. they let you know through the computer. i know it's important for people that don't have a computer to be able to do it. they do have a phone line. you can call. i think it's great. we have had our second. one suggestion and i called my county commissioner last night, it would be nice, the v.a. has t. my southern -- i have a card issue that they could have if you want to, says, his says, it comes from the c.d.c., all the v.a. employees have t. we don't. little cards that say i had this vaccine this date. they even have the vial numbers. that would be nice. something that would be optional

to somebody that's had both shots. host: you want what they are calling a vaccine passport, then. something you can show people. caller: we don't have one. the funny thing is the v.a. has it and the local county health department has it. i called them for that suggestion. they said you -- i should have one too. i talked to the county commissioner. yeah, that's a good idea. all i was asking is if you have had the two shots that you would be getting a little card you could put in your phone in the future somebody said we have the shots. here it is. right here. i had them on this date. this type. like your license size. your wallet. host: lots of discussion about that as you probably know here in washington. it came up at the -- at monday's white house briefing with the press secretary, general sake. here's what she had to say. >> provide guidance. there is currently an intraagency process looking at many of the questions around

vaccine verification. that issue will touch many agencies as verification is an issue that potentially touch ever sectors of society. best guidance will provide as andy alluded to, a determination or development of vaccine passport or whatever you want to call it, will be driven by the private sector. ours will more be focused on guidelines that can be used as a basis. a couple key principle that is we are working from. one is that there will be no centralized universal federal vaccination beta base and no federal mandate for everyone to obtain a single vaccination credential. we want to encourage an open marketplace with a lot of companies and coalitions developing solutions. third we want to drive the market toward meeting public interest goals. we'll leverage our resources to ensure that all vaccination credential systems meet key standards. whether that's universal

accessibility, affordability, both digitally and on paper. those are standards currently going through agency process. we'll make recommendation answer we believe it will be driven by the private sector. i don't have a timeline, but it's something we are working through. we want to provide that clarity to the public. host: white house press secretary on monday. the florida governor, ron desantis, from the "miami herald," their headline, desantis denounces vaccine. they write, passport, keep plan special seats for fans who have one. that's their basketball team there. here's what the governor had to say. >> it's completely unacceptable for either the government or the private sector to impose upon you the requirement that you show proof of vaccine to just simply be able to participate in normal society. you want to go to a movie theater, should you have to show that? no. you twoont go to a game, no. a theme park, no.

we are not supportive of that. i think it's something that people have certain freedoms and individual liberties to make decisions for themselves. i also wonder, it's like, ok, you're going to do this. then give all this information to some big corporation? you want the fox to guard the hen house? give me a break. i think this is something that has huge privacy implications. it is not necessary to do. we are going to hit 3 1/2 million seniors that have gotten shots sometime this week. likely 75% of seniors. it's important to be able to do it. but at the same time we are not going to have you provide proof of this just to be able to live your life normally. host: that was the governor of florida. george in sharpsburg, georgia. we are asking folks today to tell us if they have been vaccinated or if they don't plan to at all. george, go ahead. caller: yes. i have. i couldn't wait to get my vaccination. i had both shots.

my wife had both shots. we got the pfizer, which is, i think, done the most research, but it wouldn't have mattered. i work in the public every week and i travel out of the country on a regular basis. it just gave me a better peace of mind knowing that i have -- not total protection, but more protection than i had before i got the shot. host: george, have you been traveling during the pandemic for work? caller: oh, yes. i'm a flight attendant. i went to amsterdam last week. most countries are pretty much down now. paris is going back through another 30 day shutdown. to me it was common sense. i feel much better. i still wear my protective gear whim' at work. i still clean, take my wipes, and clean the rooms.

wipe down all the handles that i touch when i get to a new room. in amsterdam, can you go out and grocery shop. they'll deliver food to your room. but you can't do any social gatherings. host: george, did you get your vaccination through the company that you work for or through the government? caller: yes. i got through the company i work for. i was in and out in 15 minutes. the first shot my arm was sore. little bit. for about 24 hours. but i made the mistake and asked a young lady giving me shots how often she -- how long she had been working and she was new. that was my mistake. the second shot didn't even know it was in. it was in and out. host: george, how was your wife able to get one? caller: through my company. once they made it available to the employees, then they went

with the employees and family after the employees had a couple weeks into it. host: got t thanks for sharing your story, george. couple of you have mentioned getting the pfizer shot. take a look at this from "usa today." the pfizer biontech vaccine has been -- been proven safe and effective for kids ages 12-15. this is from the company's own study. there will have to be more -- another look at this. the f.d.a. has to approve it, etc. they have studied children 12-15. their studies show a safe and effective. doug in oxford, new jersey. you are not going to get it. good morning. tell us why. caller: no, i'm not. there hasn't been enough clinical trials and testing for me to get it. that's basically it. these vaccines normally take three to 10 years to come out. and this was rushed out in eight or nine months. this is all over a virus that has a 99.7% recovery rate.

i don't think it's necessary for me. some people that's fine. but not for me. host: doug, when you look at what pfizer did and what these other companies did and the f.d.a. approval, why do you -- is it just the speediness of it? that's your biggest concern? caller: they were under a lot of pressure to make it happen. they were doing this the whole time while there was studies about this virus. when this initially happened we were hearing it's 3% to 5% mortality rate which is truly a pandemic. as the numbers start coming out we realize it's a fraction of that. now, i don't know why vitamin d isn't being pushed more. the same with zinc. i have been taken it for a year straight. i am not sick. i am not denying it's not real. i know some people who have been severely affected by this, but

myself, i'm not doing t host: ok. how old are you, if you don't mind -- caller: 46. host: ok. what do you do for a living, doug? caller: i'm in the auto mowive -- automotive department. host: you have to be around people. caller: i kind of put up barriers to keep them out of my work area. i kind of like anyway before this pandemic. we have barriers in the office. we have plastic shields and stuff. most people wear masks. host: you have been going to work this whole time? caller: yeah. host: doug in new jersey. keyser health -- kaiser health news, i think that's right. put together this survey, one third from a reporter, having received at least one covid-19 vaccine dose, the share of those

that are wanting to wait and see continues to shrink. in december of 2020, the share of those that are going -- were going to wait and see, 39%. it lowered in january of 2021 to 31% n february it was 22%. and in march, it's 17%. bev in bell wear says she received her second advisor last thursday. communication in delaware was terrible. 3450eu husband was on compute fleerts two weeks and never invited for vaccination. finally found a place by luck. we are 82 and 84. no real care. it was similar to a crapshoot. concerned about variant coming to the united states from southern border. good luck to all. she writes. sparta, michigan. eva. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: i have had the moderna, both of them. my daughter works in a drugstore here in the community that i'm

at. so where do sick people go? two of the employees there had been tested positive. so back to my doctor's office. my daughter and i went to scotland a year ago last january and came home to this. so we had i can't any of the name of it. i'm 80. i still work two days a week. in and a.f.c. home. the antibody tests. we did that. i have been tested three times. i had the moderna anyway. host: eva, did you test positive after you got the vaccinations? is that what you're saying? caller: no. i'm going in for surgery. so hi to get -- can't think of the name, sorry. host: so you had to get vaccinated? caller: i didn't have to. the company that i work for, the a.f.c. homemade arrangements with the local drugstore. host: got it.

caller: and they did all the clients. then you had the option to get it. i got it. i have a passport. a little piece of paper. host: are you ok with that? caller: to be honest with you, at 80 years old i went through the polio thing when i was a kid. the little sugar cubes. i'd rather be safe than sorry at 80. host: thank you for calling in today. phil, florida. you're not going to get it e welcome to the conversation. tell us why. caller: good morning. i like your new do by the way. -- your new hairdo by the way. i'm not going to get this vaccine. by definition it's experimental. also i think it's outrageous that the american people can have their constitutionally protected rights removed by the government for whatever reason and then held hostage to be --

before these rights to get back to normal is what they are saying. living normal. you have to take a vaccine or you have to do anything against your will. i just think that all the men and women who gave their lives to protect our constitution, which is supposed to protect our freedoms, i agree with the governor from florida, desantis, and i think it's a crying shame that 49 other governors are not taking a similar stand. the federal government is way, way overreaching here. also i did want to say that there are organizations out there that are not being heard. i used to have a lot more respect for c-span. i have been listening since the days of brian lamb and susan sveum. this past year it's been really

disappointing. nothing against you, greta. but seems like there's been -- i don't know. you are not giving full context. you are not having people on that challenge the narrative, the official narrative. like robert f. kennedy from children's health defense.org or somebody for stand for health freedom dot-com. or the high wire. i can't decide dot-org. this is frustrating. host: you are saying the people who are skeptical of vaccines, having that voice on. caller: yes. isn't that science? science, trust the science. follow the science. scientists all about questioning the narrative. one other thing about these vaccine passports, it's basically show me your papers. and where in history have we

heard that before? really disappointed with the american people. we are so tough. land of the free. home of the brave. just rolling over for this. overseas they have the anal swabs now. i can see that coming to america. host: all right, phil. we'll leave it there. chris in birmingham, alabama, sent us a text. i got both shots. my mother got both shots and about to head out to provide 500 first covid-19 vaccination shots to the residents of the north birmingham community. get your shots, he says. judy in mississippi. judy, you're not sure. caller: no. i'm not getting the shot at all. host: ok. why? caller: i think it's a man-made virus. how can you vaccinate against something man-made. i have talked to several people who have been sick with covid. i have friends that didn't make

it. i had friends that did. for me no. i don't trust the government. love trump. but no. not even with him advising to get it, no. host: judy, you say man-made. where do you think it came from? caller: china. lab. there's no vaccination against man-made. virus. and i'm old. what have i got to lose? i just don't trust them. host: judy, you and others have seen the news about the world health organization joint study with china about the origins of it. the "wall street journal" this morning calls that the wuhan whitewash. they write this. the w.h.o.'s tissue thin analysis isn't surprising. chinese government scientists provided most of the data and worked with the international team to craft the report. beijing has limited independent access to information on covid-19's origin. much as it silenced scientist

and journalists who raised doubts about the official story last year. the report's publication was repeatedly delayed as both sides negotiated a report that is more political than scientific. then you have "the washington post" editorial this morning. saying that where did the pandemic begin? china holds the key, they write. china has the responsibility to open its doors. this is not a blame game. but an essential investigation into the cause of this pandemic to make another one less likely. the united states and other countries are calling for an independent investigation. steve, north charleston, south carolina. good morning. caller: i hope you're doing well. i am 73. married. i have had both pfizer shots. i tell you i had them -- was in on the first wave due to my age. my wife's younger than me, bless her heart. she got in on the second wave.

what's troubling to me, greta, is that i hear these horror stories, we all hear them, about how hard it is to get a vaccination in various parts of the country. down here we are considered an underserved state. the medical university of south carolina reached out to me very early. a couple weeks later they reached out to my wife. she went to c.v.s. pharmacy and got both her shots and had no problems. my general practitioner reached out to me early on. it's just troubling to understand -- coy have got shots three different places with no big issues. it's just bothersome that people are having so many problems getting vaccinated. i just don't understand it. host: how long did you guys -- did you and your wife have to wait between shots? caller: typical four weeks. 30 days. i have been coming to work. actually i could -- the c.e.o. of our company, they pushed the

dates back about three times. now it's june. i'm doing a job that i have to use some big equipment i didn't have at home. never more than four people in the office so we don't have a problem. i'm honestly ready to can the mask. out of respect for those people at the front door, home depot, or food store, or lowe's i'm not going to make that guy's job any harder. my goodness. he doesn't need to meefment i wear a mask just out of respect for those guys. why make their jobs harder. i would say this, it's time for kids to get back in school. like the gentleman from alabama said, families need to reconnect. that all members may have five legislative days to revise and extend their remarks 9-year-old grandson has been back to school full-time since the christmas break and they have had absolutely no problems at all. this situation around the country where teachers unions are holding us up, that's ludicrous. and they should be ashamed. that's my story. i feel comfortable. and i'm ready to get out and --

we go to restaurants. my wife's kind of funny, if we dine outside, the climate is pretty good. we do that. we are in good shape. host: steve what you and your wife looking forward to? when you don't have to wear a mask. what are you going to do? caller: we are just looking forward to vacationing as usual. we go to church. i go to sunday school. i wear my mask there until i get far away from people. we just want to get back out and start doing things socially. we never lost contact with our family. we didn't do any of that. people said don't go to thanksgiving. yeah. we did all that. nobody's gotten sick. i know people have. and i know some people that have suffered. some people -- we are just blessed. of course we have beaches down here. it's easy to maintain safe distance on the beach, my goodness. that's no problem. we go there. we are just ready for things to get back to normal. the next thing the future hold for us is what's next? are we going to have to get a

booster every year? that's the next -- i had the opportunity to take in -- take part in a study early on. i didn't want to do that because i didn't know if i would be getting the placebo or not. i didn't want the placebo, i wanted the real thing. so i opted out. host: thanks for sharing. to patricia here in a text. she writes, no shot for me because i already recovered from the virus. no one really knows if the vaccine helps or how long it's effect -- effective. alex in texas. you are waiting for the vaccine. how long have you been waiting? caller: i have only been waiting for about two gregs. greg abbott allowed everyone in texas to register. i just have a few things to say about relating to the subject. i wanted to say first of all, thank you greta, for not interrupting the callers. good job on that. i wanted to say, i recommend everyone take the vaccine.

you got to respect people's decision it is they want to or don't. respect people's beliefs. i want to say that this is a medical miracle. and god bless all the scientists and medics who was beating this invisible enemy, basically. all everyone else could do like us who aren't medics or scientists was pray. god bless all of you scientists and medics. thank you for this vaccine. i wanted to say this, i think the w.h.o. should be dissolved. but other nations as well. they promote a common thought initiative when they all work together, the countries work together, which the communism, that's basically communism. host: all right. oregon texting to say, waiting until i can choose to be one and done. she wants the johnson & johnson. mike in michigan, hi, mike. what was it like for you to get the vaccination? caller: it was pretty much painless. i had both pfizer vaccinations. first one had a little sore arm.

second dose was monday. no sore arm at all. host: mike, what was the process like to get it? what did you have to do? get online? caller: yeah. i got to say meier.com easy goat on line. signed up first week. host: why did you decide to do it, mike? caller: i guess i grew up in the 60's and i was inoculated with all the vaccines. believe in science. host: you trust the government? caller: i do, yeah. host: what do you say to people who don't? caller: i guess that's their belief. this is the united states. why wouldn't you? science and technology is there. host: wanda, trenton, new jersey. wanda's not going to get it. have you been listening this

morning to those who are getting it? caller: yes. host: and have you been persuaded at all? caller: no. not at all. i just choose not to get it. but i don't -- if anybody wants to get it that's their preference. i don't want to get it. i wash my hands. i stay indoors. i'm not out and about. i'm waiting on that. my husband is going this morning to get it. the johnson & johnson. he's going to get t i'll be 58. he's 68. he's going to get it. that's his preference. i'm not going to get it. host: are there any arguments or debates in your house? caller: no. not really. i just told him don't get it. he wants to get it. he's going to get t my daughter and i, she's a nurse. we are not getting it. it's our preference. whoever wants to get it, that's fine. keep your hands washed, keep covered. stay away. do what you have to do. it's everyone's preference. host: wanda, new jersey. skippers, virginia, says he got

his first moderna vaccine shot last week. our county is slow at vaccinations. i went to the wal-mart pharmacy and put himself on the list for the no-shows. got a call 48 hours after being on the list. to show up. bob, jacksonville, texas. hi, bob. why are you still waiting to get one? caller: yes, dwreta, good morning -- greta, good morning. you complete the circle. i have talked to every host from brian lamb to you. host: great. caller: i just wanted to throw that out. listen, i really mean this, you are in the same category as brian lamb. you let people talk. that's great. i love that. now, about the virus -- the vaccination. i'm 86. my wife's 80. and we have not been contacted

at all. in fact, i ask at our clinic and they didn't know anything about it. they said they had not been contacted. i'm still waiting. host: have you, bob, reached out to your mayor, the mayor's office in jacksonville o to see -- caller: no. no. host: or county officials? maybe the route you want to go. caller: well, i thought my clinic would be the route to go. evidently that wasn't it. i don't -- host: you still there? just finish up your thoughts. caller: i'm sorry. host: finish up your thoughts. caller: well, i have one more thing i wanted to say. and i hate to say this, but the steve from south carolina, he

does not appreciate the 30-day limit. he called on march 20. i've got a list of every time he's called. he violates it bigtime. that's not fair to everybody else. host: no, it's not. thank you for watching so closely. bob, our phone police there in texas. other news, msn.com,ed headline, probably see it in your paper, g. gordon liddy, undercovered operated convicted in the watergate scandal tie died at the age of 90. at his daughter's home in fairfax county, virginia. also this is a headline, broke by "the new york times" yesterday, in the papers this morning. congressman matt gates facing a justice department investigates -- gaetz facing justice department investigation with relationship with teen girl.

he's denying it. david in georgia. you are not sure. caller: greta, how you doing today? host: i'm well. you are not sure about getting it? caller: right. i mrs. susan, too. greta, let me say this. me and you -- we got a thing going. ok, this covid, let me make three points. this covid thing, rrt. -- all right. the numbers are come out. i have been saying this to my friends. it's killing 82% of people 65 and older. they are using this to clear up the people on pensions and the social security rolls. that's what this is for. and the guy from called said it started china. or south america bringing it over here. no they are not. it started right there in texas. if you look back, there were two labs, and they weren't chinese, of two labs people were killed that was working on this project. go back to the 12 monkeys movie

a that came out a while back. they killed everybody in those two labs. go back to the human g in a moment -- genome program. where in the 90's they were mapping everybody's genomes who do this very thing. host: david, so david it sounds like you're not sure because you don't trust the government. caller: i do not trust the government. like the guy said a few minutes ago, yeah, this is made up to kind of -- for various things. you always want to kill off so many people. you want to control. look how -- they are weaponizing this. one more person, a person that talked about the polio vaccine. there is a show came out called dr. mary's monkey. this little young girl, two young girls -- host: i don't want to go too far down this road. we have other calls. tell me this. you said you called on the not sure line. is there something that could convince you to get a vaccine?

caller: i don't trust the government. i don't trust the government to do anything. especially for black people. no, i do not. host: ok. david in kennesaw, georgia. garcia, lexington, kentucky. i got the first dose for pfizer vaccine. waiting for the second. anyone who wants to start traveling abroad will eventually be required to get vaccinated and show their card. come on, u.s.a., wake up and get the vaccine. mark, fort lauderdale, florida. hi, mark. caller: hello, how you doing? host: good morning. mark, what's it like in florida to try to get a vaccine? caller: i personally for myself i had to go through hell. it just -- it was forever and every. i even threat go for a while because i said i'm not going to go through all this. when they started announcing they are lowering ages and such, i said i better get mine. i actually qualified for the first round. i didn't want to go through the hustle.

i got the first one on st. patrick's day. wheredy have to go to a big giant line, etc., etc. i'm happy to have it. funny story is, you had a guy call earlier about getting in at his local pharmacy, something like that. my wife is younger than me. even before i got my vaccine, i wanted to get her taken care of. by going -- our local grocery store was handling it. at the end of the day said you got any left? she got her vaccine. just this past week they are announcing the drop in the age way down. neither one of us had to go through that. i'm happy to have t i think it's worth it. host: why do you think it's worth it, mark? caller: because i feel better about things. i feel like i've got a better chance of staying alive. and i wish more people would. i mean very nice that the one lady said it's ok if people want to get t. get t i say it's ok if

people who don't want to get it don't want to get it. but that's on them. they are going to help my social security last longer, more and more and more old people die. call you up say i ain't getting it. don't get it. i hate to take this attitude, but when you listen to everybody calling like that, with all kinds of excuses and rationalizations and fantasies and quoting things that happened in movies like real life, we are seeing and you're seeing why our country will never be completely rid of covid because of people like that. a year from now or not i'll probably have to get a vaccination booster because they'll have to come up with something. i'll be happy to get a passport showing that i was -- to get mine. let them go their way.

ill gea mine. stay away from me. host: all right, mark. wendy, hamburg, new jersey. going to get my first vaccine today. i see this as the only way to get back to making plans and spending time with friends and family. looking forward to having my daughter's wedding reception in june. new jersey rollout has been a mess, she says. barbara in florida, you're next. why did you decide to get the vaccine? caller: hi, greta. host: good morning. caller: good morning. i have been in a congregate living facility so hi mine with the rest of all of us. it was easy. i know i'm not out there searching for one. it came to us. but it was -- to me it's the thing to do. let me just say, i have only one comment. i have been interested in plagues and pandemics for a long time during my lifetime because i love history. and i would suggest that if it's not already been done that c.

span do some kind of a program on pandemics and epidemics in history. it's very interesting. and it's been around forever. as long as there's been humans, there's been pandemics and epidemics. host: we have done that. caller: we may never get rid of this. it may always be in our future. host: ok. we have done that. we talked to the author of the spanish flu pandemic. the book that he wrote. we have talked about the history of this, if you want. go to our website c-span.org you'll see at the top there a search engine. video lie brarery, if you type in pandemic -- library, if you type in pandemic or history pandemic, you'll be able to find those segments. i do want to share another headline with all of you. this from "politico," two capitol police officers are suesing the former president for

sparking the january 6 mob attack. officers james and sydney describe the severe physical and emotional toll from the riot that continues to haunt them n a 40-beige paige lawsuit they said president trump has direct responsibility for unleashing violent followers on the capitol. both officers are seeking unspess need compensation greater than 75,000 apiece. don, it oklahoma. don, why did you decide to get vaccinated? caller: well, i just got my second one this week. tuesday, i guess, and i did not have any soreness from either one of them of got the pfizer both times. i was able to get it. my health department here. i was able to stay in my car. didn't even have to get out. go in. they come to the car and give me the shot. and like i said i got it

tuesday. don't even have a soreness in my arm or anything. i wanted to make a comment about what biden said about all of that. testimony -- over the last few weeks and my own -- host: don, we are listening. go ahead. caller: ok. i just wanted to make a comment about what biden said about all this. activities over the last few weeks i was just wondering what he would have to say about all the illegals he's letting in with the virus. what effect that's going to have on us here. and i'm just wondering why something isn't put up on that about what's going on in this country instead of some of the

subjects that you're covering. host: don, stay with us this morning. because we are in our last hour at 9:15 to 10:00 eastern time we'll talk with angela kocherga a reporter from el paso, texas. she's going to join us and talk about what's happening on the border there. south carolina, good morning. caller: good morning. good morning, hope everyone's well today. i am waiting on my vaccine but i'm actually able to take a vaccine here in south carolina because i am pregnant. host: they opened it up to pregnant women. you were next in the priority list? caller: that's right. they opened phase 1-b and pregnant women are in that list. i decided this wasn't really for me in pregnancy. as soon as the baby's born and

i'm able to get the vaccine i will be getting vaccinated. host: you arehost: you are hesie you are not sure what you will do to the baby? caller: i am hesitant on what -- because there is not enough evidence on what it is -- what it will do to pregnant women despite it being advertised as safe. i personally do not feel comfortable yet. after the baby is born, i do. i am totally for mrna vaccines and i would wish people would understand why this was able to be produced quickly. this is not like standard vaccines of the past. my mother was around during polio, she got measles, and bumps, we are positive about vaccines because she tells me the stories of what happened back in the days. i wish more people would get educated and understand how mrna vaccines work and how it has

rolled out quickly. because i am pregnant i will wait a little bit. host: what does your doctor say? caller: i am being told that it is safe for us, but really we should make the decision on our own if we feel comfortable or not. and i am so far along that it is not something i would like to do big because were i to get small flu like symptoms i do not want to exacerbate the pregnancy symptoms. so, we will see how it goes and hopefully i will get vaccinated in the next couple of weeks, i am due on friday. host: congratulations. i hope you are getting sleep now. caller: trying to. host: thank you for calling in this morning. we will take a break. when we come back we will talk about civil rights and race relations in the country with robert woodson, founder and president of the woodson center. then we will talk about undocumented migrants crossing the border with ktep's angela

kocherga, who regularly reports on the border and inside mexico. we will be right back. ♪ >> today, live coverage continues for the trial of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin he was charged in the death -- who was charged in the death of george floyd. watch that live at 10:30 eastern on c-span2, c-span.org or the c-span radio app. watch at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2 or anytime on demand at c-span.org. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 has taught

nonfiction books and authors every weekend. saturday at 9:00 p.m. eastern, " a beginners guide to america for the immigrant and the curious" a jury in -- a journalist reflects on her experience as a refugee. sunday on in-depth, a two hour conversation with harriet washington whose books include " carte blanche," and "deadly monopolies." join in with your calls, facebook comments, texts and tweets. on afterwords, dana perino talks about her book "everything will be ok: life lessons for a young woman by a former young woman." she is interviewed by the former secretary for affairs of the george bush administration. watch on c-span2. >> "washington journal"

continues. host: joining us is robert woodson, the founder and president of the woodson center and is here to talk to us about his book, “lessons from the least of these: the woodson principles." so, your title, explain. guest: i have been concerned about the fight on poverty for the past decades and i have been writing about it and working on behalf of low income people, and i was upset that over the last 50 years that we have had the war on poverty, we have spent about $20 trillion in programs in the aid to poor where 70% of the money does not go to the poor, but professional experts that parachute into low income communities solutions, and when we fail we do not enter -- examine the intervention, instead we assume that it is underfunded. so, i have been working at the woodson center for the past 40

years with the real experts, at reducing poverty. and those are the groups that are indigenous to the community. low income leaders that have the trust and confidence of people there. they are the real experts, so the woodson center has been working with indigenous grassroots leaders and some of the most drug infested, crime-ridden neighborhoods. and they have generated some very innovative approaches that have effectively addressed some of the poverty -- problems of poverty and violence, and despair. but their accomplishments are unrecognized, and underutilized. what i have done over the past four years -- 40 years, i have walked with these groups and individuals, and so what i did in my book was chronicle what are the valuable lessons i have learned from these real

anti-poverty experts, and i have distilled these lessons, into 10 principles that will help guide people to understand how to find these grassroots healing agents. how to assist them in a way that does not injure them with a helping hand. host: so, before we get to your principles, why are these other programs failing? guest: it is like the equivalent of a transplant. if you go into your physician's office and have a heart murmur, he does not recommend a transplant. but he does is try to recommend remedies that are least intrusive. let us take some rest. what we do when it comes to addressing poverty, we have people at our universities and think tanks that design remedies

for the poor and they asked which problems are fundable, which -- not which are solvable. that is why they have imposed a program to aid the poor that have in fact injured them with a helping hand. and so, our approach is to find out what is working. but, the very fact that we have spent $20 trillion in the past 50 years in programs to aid the poor, and we are told that poverty has not really declined very much in the last 50 years, so obviously what we are doing has not worked. we have documented not only the failure, but the disintegration of some of these, particularly the black community. what we are witnessing with the 70% out of wedlock births, and of violence, that is not something that has been associated with the black community.

this is not as some would have you believe a legacy of slavery and jim crow. that is just patently untrue. and we have documented that. host: what is it attributed to? guest: thomas soul talked about the largest drop of poverty a curate in the black community in 1940, 80 5%. it was reduced to 25% in 1960. and, that is because of the self-help and efforts undertaken by the people in those communities. what we have done is documented that the first 500 years after slavery, lack of americans a cheat -- black americans achieve great strides in reducing poverty, the out of wedlock births were under 10%. when we were denied access to hotels we bit -- built her own colleges.

but all of that changed in the 1960's. in fact, 19381940 during the depression, black americans had the highest marriage rate of any group in society. elderly people could walk in those communities without fear of being assaulted by their grandchildren. the incarceration rate was only 20% from the turn-of-the-century up until the 1960's. so what happened in the 60's, i chronicle the trials of joseph, is that the welfare system, two sociologists at the columbia school of social work, their goal -- they were socialists and their goal was to emphasize the contradictions of capitalism by encouraging low income people,

particularly blacks to flood the welfare system. but they could not have done it alone with their policy track. but the war on parvati started at that time in the office of a quill opportunity opened talked -- offices and actively recruited blacks because there was a stigma about being on welfare, so they had to overcome the stigma. so they were supported by the women's movement in the black power movement because they said that if they can just separate work from income, it means that the man will be redundant and you will see out of wedlock births, crime, and school dropouts, all of the dire predictions that they forecast would occur by increasing welfare happened. in fact, within four years of the early 70's, millions of blacks flooded into the welfare

system in major cities like chicago, philadelphia, washington, d.c., and new york. they came into the welfare sister in -- system in a time on the unemployment rate was under 4%. so, what they predicted came true when the black power movement and others said that the nuclear family is zero centric and racist, and that welfare should not be seen as social insurance, but should be interpreted as reparations. one welfare department attempted to require women to dictate claire -- declare paternity as a condition for deceiving -- for receiving welfare, the aclu sued for privacy rights that prohibited questions like this from being asked. as a consequence, you saw an explosion of the out of wedlock births from 85% two parent

households in the 60's to now where today it is 70% out of wedlock births and all of the accompanying pathologies that follow that. crime, violence, and school dropout rates are rampant in america and it is tied directly to the policies of the 60's. it is not related at all to a legacy of slavery and jim crow. host: are you saying it was a conspiracy? guest: no. i do not think it was a conspiracy. i think some of these people were well intended, and that is what makes it so difficult to challenge, because i think it was dietrich barn half that -- barnoff said that one of the most difficult things to challenge is folly, it is more

difficult than malice. malice you can challenge with violence. when somebody thinks that you are -- that they are doing you a favor, they might be well-intentioned, but what they are doing is ill advised, and that is what makes it difficult. i do not believe it was a conspiracy. i think people, and some cases believed that they were being helpful, but, unfortunately you have people were look -- working in institutions that are causing good people to do bad things on behalf of the people they are supposed to be helping. host: i am going to invite viewers to join in. if you are a democrat, 202-748-8000. republicans, 202-748-8001. independents, 202-748-8002. text us with your thoughts and questions at 202-748-8003. remember to include your first name, city, and state. you are a conservative and your

principles are that you write about competence -- confidence, integrity, transparency, resilience, innovation, inspiration, agency, access, and grace. how does this differ from liberal progressives? guest: i do not define what i do as conservative. i consider my political views radical pragmatist. host: define that. guest: all of us when we are in the public square, we should meet the demand whether or not you -- your proposal has the consequence of improving the quality of life of the people you say -- you say you intended to help. and so, what i have chronicled in this book of these principles are based upon solutions that have been successfully designed, and implemented by the people in the community. my book is full of solutions,

that is what the woodson center markets in. i will take you into a neighborhood in washington, d.c., a public housing developments that i worked with in the 80's called tender wood parkside. they were 600 units that were drug infested and crime-ridden, but a mother there, abandoned by a husband to divorce at age 22 with five children sent all five kids to college. and then, she helped other residents to organize and drive the drug dealers out, and as a consequence of this self-help efforts they sent 600 kids to college from one public housing development. it almost eliminated teen pregnancy, and it became a model for self-help and self-determination and the woodson center worked closely with ms. gray and that became a

national model. and so, those are the kinds of principles that i write about and that the woodson center supports around the country. host: let us get to calls. michael and grand rapids -- in grand rapids, michigan. democratic caller. caller: hello. you are, i am sorry to say, you do not speak for black folks really. you are speaking to white folks and creating a negative image of black folks, continuously saying that they are crime riveted criminals, -- crime ridden criminals and no fathers in the family. if you look at it through this period of time, divorce is up for all people, not just black people. white folks and white men are leaving their white children also. and this claim of lack men being so -- black men being so

incompetent is insulting. you are not speaking for african-americans, you are speaking to white folks who want to buy your propaganda. host: let us get a response. guest: my record is clear. what we have done, 23 years ago, typical of what the woodson center does there is a neighborhood called benning terrace 53 gang murders in a five straight -- square block area in two years. the police were afraid to go in there. what i did in working with a group of grassroots leaders called the alliance of concerned men, i helped train them to do intervention and they had the confidence. they went into that community and found the warring factions and put 16 of these young men to my office downtown in separate

vans with bullet-proof vest on and we negotiated a truce. as a consequence i worked closely with them to take these young men who were predators and turn them into ambassadors of peace. as a consequence of just changing these 18 young men, they became -- they began to rebuild the community that they terrorized. as a consequence, they created jobs. the community went from 53 murders in a five square block area till one in two years. these young man -- men, some of them lived with my family. we took them in, and then we took the principles of that dramatic change that these young men became mentors and character

coaches and set up football games. we took the principles we learned there and applied it to the milwaukee public schools. we took them to dallas texas, and baltimore, maryland. our track record is solving problems working directly with men and women in communities. our record is clear as to our successful efforts to go in and rebuild communities from the inside out. but in order to rebuild you have to properly diagnose the problem. someone once said that we must have fact-based truths, otherwise lies become normal. host: do you get money from the government to do what you do? guest: i have, but i do not now. the housing authority, there in the local governments, a man by the name of david gilmore was instrumental in hiring these young man that i told you about what -- as maintenance crews to

remove graffiti and plant grass. that was their first job. as a consequence, the government supplied money to do that, the local government. also, when we exported it to milwaukee, wisconsin we started with private dollars in one school that had gangs running the schools, but as a consequence of recruiting a small group of young men who were from the community that had the trust of the kids, we put them in the schools, and they became a part of the school staff. and they called interventions. the kids would bring their differences to them and as a consequence, crime went down, baylor university studied three of our schools and compared them to the schools that did not have them and found that dropout rates were down, suspensions were down, graduation rates were

up. we did climate surveys and parents and teachers, and kids felt safe. it was so successful. it went eventually to 20 -- 14 schools, and i think it is in 12 now. that program has been in existence for 20 years. so, we are solutionists. again, and we have 2500 grassroots leaders of all racial groups who are part of our network of people, so our record is very clear. host: randy, williamsburg, virginia. a republican. caller: yes, good morning, and thank you for your efforts. i too have started a small business on spalding -- solving problems for those children that are left behind and do not feel

stable in their homes or communities. and that all came from a personal injury when i volunteered at a hospital and saw how unhealthy many children were. what i did was i built a custom 50 foot trailer and put 30 stationary bikes that kids -- for kids as young as four years old. i have traveled through 1300 schools and on the most challenged blocks in newport news or richmond, i have found cooperation amongst the business of the corner owners. and i show up and displace them with a 75 foot rig that is there for their children and the family as a whole, mom, dad, cousins, and whoever to come into the rig on their block and enjoy music, exercise, videos, and have fun with concerned people, that is success. i have never had one child of

any race blowback at me and have a negative experience in my program. and i cannot, for the -- school superintendents, county administrators, police chiefs and the like. when i show up with the rig for a community event, i am along with the investigation rv's and other police assets that are only there when the -- when it is real hot, when there is a murder or something else. these children are far too familiar with that. we need on-site programming that can travel from school to the neighborhood and back again, and operates outstanding programming right where the children are. host: mr. woodson? guest: you are right. we have got to get beyond race.

everything has to be seen through a prism of race, but what you describe is what the center does. we support a group called the voices of black mothers united. they are a group of 2500 mothers who have lost children to urban violence. and they are coming together to support community-based interventions, but also to challenge those who want to defund the police. they are supportive of the police. they want to see reform, but they want to see increase. they represent 82% of black americans who are against defunding the police. 60% of black people do not believe that racial discrimination is their biggest barrier to self-advancement. but, what we think we need to do is emphasize and come up with

solutions, and that is what the woodson center is going through, various programs that we need to stop allowing the civil rights legacy to be converted, and to take this message to young blacks that somehow you live in a nation that hates you, that contrives to disadvantage you. people are motivated to change and improve themselves when you show them victories that are possible. the biggest untold story about america is how blacks under segregation achieved against the odds. and when whites were at their worst, blacks were at their best. but we do at the woodson center through our 1776 efforts is to chronicle what we achieved in the past, and what were the values that underpinned those

successes, and how we can borrow from what we have done successfully in the past to apply it to the present. and, we have other examples of groups around the country who have taken those old values and applied them to a new vision and are creating new opportunities today. that is where we ought to be spending our time and energy instead of saying to black america, white america owes you reparations and therefore you need to sit and wait for them to liberate you. nobody should do more for anybody than they are willing to do for themselves. that is the message that we are trying to communicate. host: i am going to go to john in herndon, virginia. an independent. caller: thank you for taking my call and god bless c-span. just a question for mr. woodson.

i was curious to hear your thoughts about how significant of a role you think that the media has played in race relations, because what i have seen it seems to have been on the decline since the training -- 20th century. guest: the media has been complicit in convincing lack america that you are a victim. that it is amazing that when in the course of a year when a white police officer kills an unarmed black it is all over the media, it is treated as if it is a chronic situation, and at the same time they underreport or fail to report that hemorrhage that is going on in 34 cities. homicides are up 20% all over. it is the highest rate. and yet the media plays into this defunding -- i will give you an example.

in philadelphia you heard about these two black men and the way the story read is that the starbucks manager asked them to leave and since they did not they were arrested. well, "the washington post" had a three page spread on it and what they failed to report was that the manager called the police. the police asked these two gentlemen to leave at least three times, but they refused, and they therefore were arrested for failure to obey the police officers, with the reporter left that part out. instead, characterized it as a racial incident. and, i think that does a great injustice to the country like that. host: robert woodson here is a truly -- a tweet. "raising the minimum wage, universal health care and taking money out of police budgets and putting them into savages --

services benefit underserved communities." guest: services created the problem in the first place. we have spent $20 trillion on services for the poor. what we need to do is invest in institutions that are indigenous to the community who have demonstrated that they can solve problems. i will give you an example. we hear a lot about reparations. what you should emphasize is preparations. for example. the problem that black america will face is not solved through reparations. the fact that you have nba and nfl players, even though black men are 6% of the population, they are 75% of those playing in those boards in the minimum wage is $1 million, that is where they started. 75% of them when they leave the league end up broke within two

years. so the answer is not just giving people money, it is doing what they are doing in somerset, new jersey. he has a 5000 member church, and when the church was facing debt, instead of borrowing money, he started a program called be free encouraging his members to reduce their debt, and as a consequence, they reduced their debt and had more money to contribute to the church. it is so successful that she has asked -- he has expanded it to a national movement. so far, over the last years he have reached -- has reached 10,000 people who've signed up for his program and they have reduced their debt by $28 million. this is money that they have two invest, and his goal is to reach 100,000 people who will save

$10,000, and that will generate $1 billion in wealth. these are the kind of innovative strategies that black america must engage and if we are to meet the challenges of today, and not look to those outside to do more for us than we are willing to do for ourselves. that is a hard message, but i really think that we need to be honest with one another, and not be afraid to tell the truth and stand for the truth. host: john and albanese, georgia. republican. caller: thank you for taking my call. i really appreciate the education lesson you gave us and look forward to reaching out with you and seeing what we can do locally to help the underprivileged. also i wanted to ask two questions, where can i get a signed book? and does the aclu get

government-funded money? host: he asked where he can get a signed book, your book and if the aclu gets government monday, money? guest: the aclu, i do not know. you can purchase my book on amazon, “lessons from the least of these." it is there, it is well documented, and i tried to write something that is inspirational and aspirational. but information is what we need. right now, facts are in short demand right now. host: nelson is -- nelson in st. louis sends us this text. "what should the black people have done? those that went to the cities you named for welfare left a segregated south where there were no jobs. what about the white people on those same welfare programs? what about the government's involvement in moving them off of welfare and building

single-family homes for them but not for black people? i think you are testament -- dismissing the systemic reality of america. guest: that is one of the greatest myths. what we have done at 1776 at the woodson center is that we have documented the fact, and i think it is important, people are inspired to improve their lot when they see victories that are possible, not always constantly reminding them of injuries to be avoided. we careful mayly -- carefully documented in chicago illinois, in 1929 when america was in the grip of segregation and racism was enshrined in law, we had no political representation. the banks redlined us. what did we do? we went to our own churches where we had burial societies because we were not permitted by

whites to ensure us. in the brownsville section of chicago, illinois in 1979 -- 1979, there were 100 million dollars in real estate assets. durham, north carolina in the hay tie section, are black wall street. we had newspapers, the first plant cell nylon stocking -- to sell nylon stockings was a black business and they sold to a national audience by hiring an all-white sales force because of discrimination. it is important for our young people to know -- and the out of wedlock births was 12% in chicago at the time. it is important for young people today to be introduced to how we

achieved these great things, one we were denied access to schools in 1920's and 1940's. julius rosenwall and booker t. washington. he came together with booker t. washington and put up $4 million in the black community matched it with $4.6 million. they built 5000 and schools -- 5000 schools throughout the rural south, which resulted in lack -- blacks closing the income gap between 1920 and 1940 from eighth grade for whites, fifth-grade for blacks, and they closed it within 20 years within six months because of the schools. the question is, if we could close the education gap when our

schools were overcrowded and we had half the budgets of white schools, why cant we close the gap today in our school systems are being run by black administrators and black teachers? these are uncomfortable, unsettling questions, but we must look and ask ourselves if we achieve all of these things, building railroads in baltimore maryland, we had a railroad that was built in 1868 when 1000 lack -- blacks were fired. we borrowed the money from the charges and built our own railroad that we operated successfully. it is important not to deny the tremendous barrier that segregation -- but we need to tell the truth of how we achieved in the face of opposition. we never allowed it to conquer us.

these inspirational stories and experiences need to be shared so that young people today are inspired to achieve against the odds instead of always reminding them of failures to be avoided. host: boston. michael, an independent. caller: good morning c-span and anyone out there. woodson, i have been wanting to speak with you for decades that i will try to be concise. i agree with the previous text that came in, and i have to tell you, dr. woodson, i disagree with you about all of your points. specifically with the previous text. i think you are blind to the systemic reality, and you have been downgrading black people, but i think your organization does not limit the help you give out to only black people. so people of color pops up when it has to, but you have been

very critical of black people. you are wrong and i do not have enough time and they will not give me enough to show you where you are wrong. what is worse than a gentleman getting up in years has been talking the same stuff since the early 80's and i will give you the key. when all of those years you have been reminiscing about, black people were second most populous. there are 60 million black females in the nation as of about 2005, and still, about 40 million african-americans. quality-of-life stats. we tell you what is going on. it was always systemic oppression directed at black people but you will talk about helping all people of color. black people were involved with building the nation. we do not need the list of how the inside feelings of this, that, and the other thing. it has never helped and it is very insulting and that is about all i have to say.

i did not want to come off as disrespectful, but this is ridiculous, you're the other organized that she wear another organization keeping the status quo in place and ignoring all of the evidence written down. it is a joke. host: michael, do you want him to respond to the quality-of-life statistics? caller: greta, and dr., -- doctor there are some year tough times. you've african-americans paying for people rushing our border. the facts show that they have lower quality-of-life stats than those people. and they are not mentioned in the constitution. he has been talking the same stuff, and guessed what, this is -- guess what, this is not 1875, this is a joke. guest: the question i have are what are your solutions? what have you done that has made a difference in their lives. i can point you to two -- 2500

leaders of organizations in 39 states who have had direct contact with us. i would let them speak for us. i do not have to defend anything. our record is clear, but again, i think that when you are ready to criticize, you should offer what your solutions are. do you think that black america, that it is hopeless and somehow we are impotent and we cannot do for ourselves? i think there should be a moratorium on black folks talking about what white people have done so that we can take the time and address the enemy within. but, what i have chronicled in my book and in 40 years of running the woodson center are solutions. we celebrate success. and everything that we do, we

write about, it is celebrating success. host: patrick, in pittsburgh. democratic caller. caller: robert, you are a godsend to this country, and here the perfect illustration that will encapsulate what we are hearing from people who are just spinning out nonsense. it is underwritten with the dystopian media that has become almost like the soviet union and pairing off people of color against their white brothers and sisters. 20% of all african-american men recognize the absolute destruction that the dystopian democratic system is purveying. they voted for donald trump because they knew what was taking place. the tearing off of black people against white people. if you look at the statistics

and i will give you one personal example, my friend is african-american. she purchased a home that was paid for by -- hugely paid for by the government. it was a 300 thousand dollar townhouse. she paid all of $30,000 for it. it is absolutely gorgeous. i work for a woman of color. anybody listening to the media system which is being underwritten with lies, the blm financial scam is a perfect example. they received 80 to $100 million and they have done absolutely nothing for the african-american community. we are seeing the medium system grafted to the social media oligarchy, which is taking the race relations between people of color and white america, and turning it into an explosive

relationship that it should not be. when you look at the real statistics, 13% of the u.s. population is people of color, and yet that population has a higher standard of living than any other proportional place in the entire world. so, we need to stop media system and imply the fairness doctrine. and have a fairness doctrine in the media/social media platforms instead of removing conservative voices, we need to be civil and dr. woodson, you are a godsend. thank you. guest: thank you, we are right that america must right now move beyond the whole approach to shame, blame, and punish white america and pit us against one another. i still believe, i was at civil rights demonstrations in the 60's and dr. king said that it

is important to pursue moral consistency to hold america. america should never be defined by its birth defect of slavery. who among us wants to be defined by the worst of what we have ever done when we were young? america is a country of second chances and a country of redemption. and so, that is why what we have done at the woodson center with our 1776 unites is that we are trying to build a multiracial coalition to confront the evils that are destroying our young people either through suicide, even in affluent communities, and in silicon valley the suicide rate is six times than avenue -- national average. inner-city black neighborhoods, the leading cause of death is homicide. in appalachia, and low income whites, young people are dying from prescription drugs.

what we are doing at the woodson center is to unite the groups in so that we can stop looking at life through the prism of race because it is preventing us from addressing the moral and spiritual freefall that is consuming our young people. lack, white, brown -- black, white, and brown. what we are doing on april 6 is that i will be chairing a forum with jd vance, the author of " hillbilly elegy," and clarence page a celebrated pulitzer prize-winning journalist who is from middletown, ohio. and we will be talking about strategies to desegregate poverty and also to deracialize race. we must challenge the naysayers that are trying to pervert the civil rights movement and use

that perversion to keep us separated to suggest that somehow we should be defined by our color rather than our kind. i do not know about you but i am more interested in knowing whether or not someone is my kind then whether or not they are my color. if you share the values of self-determination, of personal agency and if you share the approach that we all need to be agents of our own uplift, and nobody should do more for us than we are willing to do for ourselves, then we are welcoming you to be a part of us. but, it is a real crime that black america is being kept in a state of rage and resentment, because you cannot accomplish anything and you are in a state of rage that is useful to you or anyone else. let us -- that is why the woodson center and 7076 is

trying to unite america, let us bring us back to what king is said when we are judged by the content of our character and not the con -- the color of our skin. that is the least important characteristic, what color we are. host: the book is "lessons from the least of these: the woodson principles." robert woodson, thank you for the conversation. we are going to take a break. when we come back we will return to the question that we asked all of you earlier. have you received the covid-19 vaccine? if you have, dial in at 202-748-8000. if you are waiting for one, 202-748-8001. if you are not going to get one we want to hear from you, 202-748-8002. if you are not sure, 202-748-8003. we will be right back. ♪ >> today president biden is in pittsburgh to give a speech on

his economic plan including plans for an infrastructure package. live coverage begins at 4:20 p.m. eastern on c-span and, [no audio] or on c-span.org -- c-span.org >> today mike lee of utah will give a speech on executive power under the constitution. watch that beginning at 3:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, c-span.org or with the free c-span radio app. listen to c-span's podcast "the weekly." this week tara oh shares or insight about america's relationship with china. >> know your enemy or know yourself. i do not want to necessarily say enemy, but maybe your opponent or challenger. if we do not understand that portion then it will not really matter because it will not address the fundamental issue,

which is the communist party and its tendencies and goals. >> find "the weekly" where you get your podcasts. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back checking in with all of you this morning on vaccines and whether or not you intend to get one or if you already have. what your story is, what is the experience with the government or private sector to get a vaccination. according to the cdc's latest numbers, 85.5 million people or 25.7% of the u.s. population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. about 46.4 million or 14% of the population has an fully vaccinated. vox.com says that at this pace america is on track to vaccinate all adults by july 4.

nearly 2.8 million covid vaccine doses are being given a day in this country. "the wall street journal" has a survey and found that the number of americans who are expressing reluctance to get the vaccine is shrinking, and they write that " it is a positive sign to get shots and arms of people to return immunity." this comes as a president and health officials are warning of a fourth wave. look at npr's headline. as states open up covid-19 cases are on the rise. listen at what the present -- listen to what the president had to say. [video clip] >> we could see -- still see a setback, and if we let our guard down now, we could see the virus getting worse, not better. as many people as we have vaccinated we have more americans left to go. you know, we will administer more shots in march than any country on earth, but even so we

have to give more shots in april than in march. because we are in a life race with the virus that is spreading quickly with cases rising again, new variants spreading, and sadly some of the reckless behavior we have seen over the past few weeks means that more new cases are to come in the weeks ahead. with vaccines, there is hope. which is very good, to state the obvious. people are letting up on precautions, which is a very bad thing. look, to this point, cases have fallen two thirds since i took office. deaths have also fallen. but now cases are going up. some states, deaths are as well. you know, we are giving up a hard-fought gain. as much as we are doing, america, it is time to do more.

all of us have to do our part, every one of us. host: president biden earlier this week. dana in flint michigan, he received your vaccine, why did you decide to do it? caller: i have been fortunate enough for 15 months to test negative because i spent a lot of time alone and fortunately i have a lot at home to keep me occupied. i am studying for my masters in science degree, graduate degree and it keeps me home. i decided to get the first vaccine, the first dose, not the second dose yet because i am confident that i will remain negative. speaking of, the few people that have passed away after the vaccine, the total vaccine, there is cholesterol in the vaccine. that is part of the chemical makeup of it.

unfortunately, maybe just a few people have died from that because they have pre-existing conditions that may have not been addressed or had proper maintenance prior to getting the vaccine. that is unfortunate. and, we should try to do what we can for ourselves to stay home, and therefore, reduce the fear of dying after the vaccine. i have family members who have received both vaccines, both doses. and, i support that, and i am grateful that there is something out there to help us maintain and stay positive. host: ok. tommy and malan -- in milan, tennessee. he will not get one, why? caller: because i am not a guinea pig.

i refuse to be ruled by paranoia and fear and that is all this is. this is paranoia and fear to control us and i will not let it happen. host: do you not trust the government? caller: no. i trust the government as far as you can throw it. host: why not? what your experience has made you not trust the government? caller: well, i have been denied assistance even though i am on disability. and i know that things have happened throughout my life that have been related to my father. he served in world war ii, and he was privy to things that have gone on in berlin that have never been told to the public. and if it ever was, there would be an uprising. and that is why the reason that

i do not trust the government. the cia runs the government -- the country not the government. do not let anybody tell is different. host: is there a person in your community or a person on the national stage who could convince you to get one? caller: no. host: ok. john in ridgefield, connecticut. you decided to get a vaccination. caller: i did. good morning. i got my second shot on march 1. i do not see any reason not to get it. i am 74 years old and a vietnam veteran. the v.a. did an efficient job and i get the flu shot and other shot so i do not see any reason not to get this thing. host: do you trust the government? caller: on this idea. not on anything else, but on

this idea. host: you served in vietnam? caller: i served in germany during the vietnam war. host: do you think that you do not trust the government on other things because of your experience in that war? caller: no. although, i think the war was a mistake as it turned out for a number of reasons which i know that you do not have time to get into. host: i am just curious where your distrust comes from. caller: the policies, particularly the current administration. i do not want to get into this because this will cause a riot, but i think trump did a good job. and i think that president biden is doing everything exactly backwards and wrong for the country. so i do not trust them. host: and yet you will still get a vaccine. caller: i got it. yes. host: luke from aurora, illinois. "i had covid once already, but

the vaccine availability is not high where i am. i am 20 years old and i am last in line." mark and lily, kentucky -- mark in lily, kentucky. welcome to the conversation and tell us why you will not get one. caller: i do not plan on getting one. i do not need one. i am not in an age bracket that has -- that it is very lethal to. although it is not lethal in any age bracket. if they did not skip that animal testing that they did, which they normally have an vaccines, and if they didn't just take a couple of months and it normally takes 10 to 15 years and if the companies did not have liability protection, and if the government was not putting $10 million in the last covid stimulus bill to convince and persuade us to take it i might be interested in taking it.

because of those things i am not. i do have a point to make about these vaccine passports that seem to be headed our way. as bad as a vaccine passport is, and as bad as that idea would be , people should realize that this is not a vaccine passport. what this is is a social credit system of communist china. this is us getting our social credit score. we have to push back on the vaccine passport because it is not a vaccine passport, it is communist chinese social credit score system. that is what they are going to do with it. it is rolling out now. host: ok, mark, in kentucky. you will hear from president biden on the economy and infrastructure. he will be in pittsburgh and at 4:20 you will -- you can listen

to him and watch on c-span or on c-span.org or listen with the free radio app. he will talk about the first part of an infrastructure plan that, according to news reports, will cost $3 trillion. "washington times" have reports on what the president is mulling to pay for the plan including tax increases. what is on the table according to their reporting, "apply social security payroll taxes to earnings above 400,000 bringing in $740 billion. increase the corporate tax rate from 21% to 28% which brings in $700 30,000,000,007 -- $730 billion. increase the minimum taxes on forests -- foreign income of multinational corporation. increase rates on capital gains and dividends for taxpayers above one million, $370 billion

in revenue. and a 310 billion coming from an increase in the top marginal rate from 37% to 39 .6% for taxpayers with annual incomes above 400,000." that would also bring in $220 billion. another $220 billion from increasing the estate tax. this is a total projection collection of $3 trillion. nancy from altoona, pennsylvania. back to our conversation about receiving and getting the vaccine. why did you decide to do it? caller: i decided to do it because it protects me but it also protects -- makes american

people be able to get back to some normalcy. i think he gives us the hope we need in these trying times of so many issues getting blown out of proportion. it is a simple fact. if you get the vaccine, you will save lives. you will be able to get back to your loved ones. i have a grandson in seattle who's a-year-old in a couple of days. i have never received -- i have never seen. it is a long trip, changing flights, this stuff about constitutional rights and not wearing masks, wrong. come on, let's pull together and unite.

let's do something for us. the normalcy that we are so far away from because the pandemic wasn't predicted but we have to try to get it right again. we have to try to do what helps get back to bringing the economy back. we can't do indoor things without having this behind us to protect. nick -- host: nick, you are not going to get one, tell us why. caller: i don't have any faith in the pharmaceutical companies. the amount of time invested in some of these vaccine takes years or decades to complete. i don't feel like there has been enough trials for the potential long-term side effects or what is coming down the road for these. it is definitely an unknown.

i don't feel like i'm willing to take that chance. i'm 53 years old. i'm not really in that particular danger zone. if vaccines will be required for 60 years old or 65 and older, that makes a lot of sense. the rest of the world should've kept on going about their business. closing businesses, schools, the numbers clearly show that younger people really don't have much of a problem. they don't feel great but it doesn't really cause massive distress or overcrowding of the hospitals. maybe they should've focused a little bit more. if you're going to force it on the american people, you should start with the people most at risk. those people, what do they have

to lose? if you're in a nursing home and sick, what you have to lose? if your pre-existing condition, it could definitely be a benefit for you. you don't have long left. host: if a vaccine passport is required to go to a sporting event or concert or travel out of the country, what will you do? caller: that's unconstitutional i guess at that point. that's a big fight to fight. i can't launch a court case that would go to the supreme court. that is an unconstitutional thing. you can't stop americans from traveling. that type of the thought process. a lot of the things -- both

sides of the government but particularly the democratic side. it is definitely constitutional and could cause litigation for decades to come. host: on to say the miami herald headline about the governor of florida, ron desantis. it says he denounces the idea of a passport. he also says the miami heat will require it. listen to what the governor had to say. >> it's completely unacceptable for either the government or the private sector. show proof of back soon -- vaccine to participate in society.

if you want to go to a movie theater should you have to show that? no. we are not supportive of that. it is something people have certain freedoms and individual liberties to make decisions for themselves. you're going to do this and then what? give this information to this big corporation? this is something that still has privacy implications. we will hit 3.5 million seniors that have gotten shots sometime this week. it's important to be able to do it. at the same time, we are not going to have you provide proof of this just to live your life normally. host: debra lee says this, fully vaccinated with pfizer, no side effects at all.

vaccination card laminated and sitting in my passport. next week, 16-year-olds and up are eligible. future is so bright. let's go, get your shot. kathleen in pennsylvania, you decided to get vaccinated. caller: i believe in science. i believe this vaccine has been in the works for 20 years. i have no problem with getting it. the agency on aging called up and i went down. my daughter just got hers, she is 30. she got it and i feel safe, i feel another week she will go get her second one.

she was afraid but she is doing it. she's doing it for her country. i believe in that. why we did it years ago when all the vaccines we got when we were kids, we believed in it. this is social media adding to this. as far as desantis goes, believe me, he will get onboard if he can't make the money from those games. the cruise ships, that is where the passports are coming from. if the cruise ships go out of florida, everybody will have their vaccine card. host: are you going to go on a cruise? caller: i'm not, i don't like being on the water for that long. i believe in the shot and i hope

everybody gets it. host: let's look at what the biden administration is saying. here's the press secretary. >> we will provide guidance, there is currently -- looking at many of the questions, that issue will touch many agencies that will touch many sectors of society as you have alluded to. this guidance will provide -- a determination or development of vaccine passport or whatever you want to call it will be driven by the private sector. ours will be focused on guidelines. a couple of key principles that we are working from. one is that there will be no centralized universal vaccinations database and no federal mandate requiring everyone to obtain a single vaccination.

we want to encourage the open marketplace with a variety of private secretary -- private sector companies. third, we want the market to drive towards meeting the interests. we want all the credential systems to meet key standards. those are standards. we'll make some recommendations. we believe it will be driven by the private sector. i don't have a timeline to provide at this point. it is something we are working through. we want to provide that clarity to the public. host: patty, share your story with us. caller: i'm 75 years old, i'm in good health. i'm thankful we received moderna vaccine in a small community of 80,000.

i encourage everyone to get the vaccine. we after member aids is a virus, polio is a virus. measles, mumps, i'm so sad this is a conspiracy. our democratic governor has been persecuted by the republican party for issuing an emergency mast mandate. we have to take those precautions. just on a side note purely on my part, part of the delay when trump made light of the virus coming he and his daughter have a close manufacturing -- close manufacturing business in china. they were doing their strategy in regard to their business. get the vaccine and god bless

you. thank you for taking my call. host: steve in bainbridge island, not sure, what will convince you? caller: i have two degrees. i understand what messenger rna is. previous vaccines i believe chicken eggs were used. messenger rna is a different program. on being responsible. i like being a part of something greater than myself. i received my first vaccine the 20th of march, my second is april 16. i want to be a part of something bigger than myself. host: you are getting it? caller: absolutely. host: jim in council bluffs, iowa. you are waiting at this point. what is your holdup? caller: i'm waiting for the

johnson. host: that's the only one you want to take? caller: i really don't know if i want to get one after all of these illegals coming across the border with the vaccination, what good is it when they are spreading it all over the country? you answer me that. host: we will be talking with the reporter who covers the border down in el paso and we will talk about the situation down there. evelyn in mississippi, why did you get the vaccination? caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i'm a first-line worker, i'm a nurse. have to convince my family and

the community that you took vaccines, you took your children to get the polio vaccine and nothing has happened. he was one of the first 100. i usually don't post on social media. i did post a picture of myself to let people know it is safe to receive this vaccine. host: what are you hearing from your friends and family in your community? caller: i've heard they don't trust the vaccine. just most recently yesterday i heard a young lady tell me that she won't get her vaccine because she needs to wait for time. i have seen people die so i'm trying to convince people to get them in reality to show them that people are really dying.

host: why are people distrustful? why did they not trust it? caller: i have heard several things they don't trust the government, i have heard they don't trust science. a lot of people say they don't go to the doctor anyway. those are three of the examples. host: catherine in burlington, new jersey. you decided to get vaccinated. caller: yes, i did. three weeks ago i went into my family practice doctor and they had the shots. they said it is j&j, i said sign me up. host: how did you react? were you ok? caller: no problem at all. i had a sore arm the next day.

that is it. i'm three weeks out. one shot and done. host: you didn't hesitate at all? caller: i was hesitant before i got there. once they told me they had it they gave it to me and i said i'll take it. the rest of my family is now signing up to get it. host: are you returning to normal life in some ways? caller: i'm going to wait it out a little bit longer until the rest of us get vaccinated here and then we could get together. host: what are you looking forward to? caller: the fourth of july, we will have a small barbecue or something in the backyard. host: i read a headline, independence day from covid-19 is what america could be celebrating. caller: absolutely.

host: thanks for calling in and sharing your thoughts about getting vaccinated. we will take a break. we come back we will talk about the situation on the border. we will talk with ktep's reporter who regularly reports from the border and inside mexico. >> c-span shop.org is the new online store. go there to order the copy of the contrast -- congressional directory. for every member of congress including bios. contact information for state governors and the biden administration cabinet. order your copy at c-span shop.org. every purchase helps support the nonprofit organization. weeknights this month we are featuring american history tv

programs as a preview of what is available every weekend on c-span3. tonight, american history tv in washington journal look back 75 years to one of the cold war's most iconic speeches. fulton, missouri's westminster college invited winston churchill to speak on march 5, 1946. not long after, the british prime minister was voted out of office. townspeople welcomed mr. churchill and harry truman with a parade. 2700 of them gathered in a college jim to declare an iron curtain has descended across the continent. we talk with timothy riley and -- the museum director and chief curator. sunday on "in-depth" a live conversation with science writer harriet washington. her most recent book is carte blanche.

>> when companies use profits to measure their success in the medical arena the problem is that we can't expect companies to care about us. we can expect companies to sublimate and late -- make less money because they care about their health. they don't care about our health. our government, people that we pay, our government should be raining this in and forcing them to develop things the public needs and it is not. >> join the conversation for harriet washington, sunday at noon eastern on book tv's in-depth. before the program, visit c-spanshop.org to get your copy of harriet washington's book.

>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government created by america's cable television companies, is brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span to you as a service. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us this morning from el paso, texas is angela cochurga, news director and border director for ktep radio. let's begin with the situation on the border. guest: we continue to see large numbers of people come across the families and what they called unaccompanied minors. these are children in some cases. also teenagers, real concerns

about some of the order control holding stations. now we have children crowded into these facilities. we see the biden ministration opening more health and human services shelters. reunited with a family member or sponsor with the immigration port. our large military installation here that could have up to 5000 beds, we have 500 children enter that facility yesterday for the first time. host: when do the rising numbers occur? guest: it has been going on for months, dating back to when the trump administration was still in office. we did have a slowdown during the pandemic because a lot of

countries had their own lockdown and people couldn't move around. we see a pickup in the winter and then of course leading into the election. we see these seasonal surges. i want to get away from the word surges. these are numbers we have seen in the past of families and children, others coming to look for work but also fleeing situations in central america. violence, gangs, poverty and now we have climate change. we are starting to build and now as secretary mayorkas said, it is on pace to be the largest change we have seen in decades. host: from the washington times, here in washington, d.c., biden team was warned on border policy. team officials say huge migrants

urged to come as no surprise to them. guest: these warnings also went out -- they go out to all administrations. we see right before a new president takes office, a surge. we saw that increase in people before president trump took office. people try to get in quickly because they were worried about a hard-line immigration policy taking effect. we saw that before president biden took office as people trying to figure out is this my time to go. the warning, i cannot vouch for that. i was not in those meetings. we do know there was a slow transition and information beyond a warning. secretary mayorkas has been a part of dhs for many years. i'm sure he was aware. host: when an unaccompanied child crosses the border, how

are they getting here and when they cross, what do they do? guest: toddlers are not making their way up to the border on their own. there are smuggling networks that move all sorts of people. people rely on what they call guides because it is dangerous to travel on your own. the areas are controlled by organized crime groups. these are dangerous journeys. these children are brought up with the guides. the and send uncle traveling with the child -- chanson uncles traveling with the check -- aunts and uncles traveling with the child. we are talking about children but also the large number of young people are between the ages of 12-17.

lots of teenagers, they are taken into custody and border patrol has holding cells for lack of a better word for all of the people they encounter. they're supposed to be in these holding stations for no longer than 72 hours. they are taking longer to move them into hhs custody because of the lack of bed space. they are cared for in a much better environment while health and human services and partner agencies look for family members and/or sponsors to take care of the children while their case moves through immigration court. children are coming up to reunite with a parent who has been in the u.s. unauthorized, often working and sending money home. too many of them have --

host: do many of them have someone in the united states will vouch for them and if they don't what happens? guest: health and human services and activist organizations tell us the vast majority do have a relative in the u.s. who could doubt for them and care for them. there was a concern about people not coming forward in the trump administration. there are sponsors who are vetted and checked. there are foster care situations where families will take in this situation. there are facilities where children could wait while the case is moved to immigration court. host: if the person that is the

sponsor vouching for them, if that person is not a legal citizen, they are allowed to go with them? guest: they are. these are parents. the goal is in the majority of the cases you want the child to be with the parent. this has been going on for multiple administrations. that has been the common practice. host: what about the families we are hearing about that are crossing the border and claiming asylum? what happens to them? guest: i just reported on this recently. most of them are turned right back around and send to mexico. the biden administration is acknowledging that. title 42 was implemented when the pandemic started. it allows border patrol to quickly remove people from the country and send them back to

mexico in this place -- case. they are sent back to mexico. there are some allowed in. the vast majority are not. often the return to mexico they seem very confused and distraught. people have the idea because if they came enough -- through enough for asylum they would be allowed to stay. many of the shelters where i am across the border from el paso are filled to capacity. i met a young mother who had basically been abandoned by her guide. she too thought she would be able to come across and ask for asylum. her husband had been murdered in el salvador and she was trying to get to maryland where she has a daughter. she was trapped right there on the border. the bridge where she had been

returned, they could help her find shelter. you kept calling out, does he understand what's going on? she said he keeps asking mama, when could we go home? we have tragic situations developing in multiple times with different families. host: the reason they are not allowed to claim asylum is because of the pandemic? caller: correct. they still moving across but they want people sent to mexico. host: there are some people who are allowed to claim asylum, what is the criteria? guest: the people who are in the remaining mexico program. the migrant protection protocol established that forced people

to wait in mexico while their hearings were finally called in the united states. the biden administration ended that. groups of people are allowed in. the ports of entry or international bridges. they all have to have a negative covid test before they could enter the u.s. there are a few exceptions. host: what about the unaccompanied minors, are they given covid testing or vaccinations? guest: they are not given vaccinations. we are not giving vaccinations to children right now in the u.s. some we are hearing are being tested. there are a good number who are positive. it depends on which congressperson you talk to to get the statistic.

others we are told, the families , some of them are tested by ngos who have shelter. when they find someone who is covid positive, families of children, they are isolated and quarantined until they are healthy enough to travel. it is unclear how many of the children are tested and what the percentage of results are. host: robin in alabama, you're up first for this session. caller: good morning, thank you. my comment is how many migrant children died during the cold spell in texas this past season?

i'd like the answer to that question and then i have a follow-up question. guest: we don't know how many children died. we haven't seen any statistics on that. we know some of the migrant families coming through had to be rescued by border patrol. there were a few deaths from hypothermia. we are still trying to get a handle here in texas on how many people died statewide from that deadly winter storm. we don't have the statistics. not a huge number but any individual does as far as a child would be tragic. we heard last week about a nine-year-old girl who died at the eagle pass stretch of border. she was trying to cross from

mexico. she was a mexican child. still trying to get details on what happens there. caller: 111 people were known to have died and you only know of one child migrant that died? is that all the statistics you have? also they said not to use the word surge. i see you are trying not to use the word surge. that is a good word to use. why not use it? guest: what i'm trying to do -- the word crisis is another one. we are trying to do a better job describing the situation on the ground and giving people information so they could decide what they want to call it. some of these words have become so politicized the minute they come out of someone's mouth people have a judgment call on what they think you believe.

you could decide what you think you want to call it. the statistics are tough. we don't have a full picture. in texas we are still getting information about people who live in texas. that is a real problem. host: stephen in florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. could you hear me ok? host: we can, question or comment please. caller: why would we have change or why did the current president change the policies that were in place and stabilize the border? that is number one. a lot of my clients i work with, they are all in favor of the border wall. in part because they said they have been exposed to the dangers themselves.

they feel it is unreasonable that anybody else should keep coming in. i would like to know why the president change these borders. guest: i won't speak on behalf of the biden administration. i could talk about some of the impacts of the policies. you could hear from the president's people daily and why they did it. it has been very limited. it had an impact on who is coming across. i can't address the border wall quite -- i could cover the border wall question. that has been a tool for border patrols to slow some people down. it is just one of many tools.

people are still coming over the bigger, better wall that the trump administration described. i did a story a couple weeks ago. people got ladders and climbed over. some are falling to their death. many are just seriously injured. others are making it across and heading to the u.s. it is one of many tools and it will not -- you will hear from many border patrol agents. host: roger in nebraska, go ahead. one last call for roger in nebraska. kathy in texas. caller: this lady is not telling the truth.

she must be covering up the biden administration or something. these people are coming in surges. it is a border crisis. host: kathy, you have to turned on your telephone. guest: you could certainly call it that if that is the word you want to use. funny of people do call it that. i'm not saying don't use that word. we are seeing huge numbers of people. i'm not disputing that were covering that up. i'm covering that right now, every day i see the large numbers of people. they are coming and many are being sent back to mexico. the last caller said we should send everyone back to mexico and people would feel comfortable on the side. that is probably true. mexico is our neighbor. that is creating humanitarian problems there.

we don't want big problems right next-door with our neighbors either. i am not trying to cover anything up. it is very clear what is happening, we could see it. host: what happens to the communities on the united states side of the border when you have a humanitarian situation in mexico? guest: humanitarian groups work very well together and have shelters that are connected on both sides. people here will respond to try and help as best as they can. mexico is getting some funding to help with the humanitarian situation. it is a real concern. people may look at it as a foreign country. family ties. this is a concern for people.

we have relatives on both sides. host: barbara in oklahoma city. caller: this border thing, i just wish one day that c-span would just one time have a show about trump, he hired immigrants his whole life. while he's been president and twice before he had to pay 25 million dollars for some reason. they sued him. he hires illegals and does not pay them. while he was president, he said they -- he said he hired 20. i thought you didn't hire them. he has four 50 years. his trump university. this border thing, he will do

something about the border. he does it all right. it is open to him. it is just crazy. host: go ahead. caller: i just have been watching the news on this yesterday. the media was allowed into the facility. i saw one of the worst things i have seen ever. kids, the lady was saying they were not tested because she was unsure about covid. these kids are lying down shoulder to shoulder. the facility said it was supposed to take 250 people, there was 4100 in the building on this lady will not call this

a crisis. i thought it was horrific. i was wondering if she has seen anything like that. host: let's ask angela. have you been inside any of these facilities? guest: i have, not this administration. i'm hoping to get in one here soon. i'm glad they are opening it up for people to take a look. i have seen this before, that is unfortunate. i have seen these overcrowded holding stations. there is one in particular that held children during the last administration. crowded together very young children. there are real concerns about the pandemic. this overcrowding situation that are causing such concern happened about two years ago.

it is very hard to get those images. this is again a repeat of what we have seen. no real attempt over multiple administrations to figure out rather than react to the problem if this happens again, it will calm down and probably happen again. what are we going to do in a humane way instead of trying to do things the same way we have always done them? caller: thank you for taking my call. i have been taking a good look at this crisis. when the country is allowing children to come to our country that is the tragedy in itself. the solution would be for us to

build a safe zone where el salvador, nicaragua, honduras, those countries in central america where their territorial borders meet, have it as the process for anyone who wants to come to the united states. we would actually mitigate our cost by having a camp there. the children wouldn't have to come so far. they would just have to come out of their country to the border. that would be the solution. guest: the administration is looking at ways to do just that. maybe not a camp. you don't want an extended refugee camp to sprout up. you're right, they actually do some of these asylum claims to

avoid that long, expensive, and dangerous journey so that claims could be process or at least started their in the home countries. here is an idea you are suggesting and it seems to be a good one. host: how much money on average does it cost to pay guide and what do people have to do to get here? guest: that is the other part of this tragedy. it ranges depending on where you are coming from and how far you have to travel. the woman i talked to from el salvador and others, it could range as high as $8,000 right now. how could someone who is fleeing poverty afford that? what little they have or whatever they have of value as their collateral and initial down payment is made. i'm hearing right now it is about $2000.

sometimes people borrow from families. some are able to take out loans with this understanding they will make installment payments once they reach the u.s. and likely get work. the other problem that happens along the way, the fee goes up and they end up paying more money. with other migrants in our history, they become indebted to these guides, smugglers. the organized crime, they are real risks to them not just money wise but sometimes safety risks. host: if they are able to get into the united states, how does this organized crime network get that money from them? guest: these groups are international.

just like with drug smuggling, human smuggling, people are on both sides. plenty of u.s. citizens are involved in this trade. like you would pay your bank loan, they pay. that is what happens. these groups are on both sides of the border. they are international. host: laura in baltimore, we will go to you next. caller: thank you, c-span as usual for trying to shed some knowledge and light on this issue. it would be great if you had this guest on more often. i think people are intellectually spinning their wheels on immigration without a

lot of clarity. this is a huge part of this whole thing. of course people will be beating down the doors of the united states. they come in illegally and make money and send it out. last time i checked, the pew research website i thought most work going to china. we are focused on folks coming across the border. many of them are mexicans, i understand it is all over latin america, africa, every place. also, puerto rico is another border people don't talk about. i talked to people, i speak spanish. they tell me they are here because they can't work their farms because they need the chemicals to have a crop.

climate change has just ruined their livelihood. there are so many problems and it is so complicated. we have to take it issue by issue. i also wanted to say something about the catholic church's role in this what is happening right now. how instrumental he has been in bringing people illegally in the country. i watched spanish television. this had been predicted months ago. people were saying they were at the border on the others. they were just waiting there for the outcome of the election. i know i put a lot out there. thank you again, c-span. guest: there is a lot there but one thing i will talk about, a

couple things. the climate change situation israel for people in central america. a small coffee farmer said he fled because in honduras there was two hurricanes that flooded half of the country. for generations, we could point the fingers at the workers but what about the employers? i can't tell you how many 14-year-old, 15-year-old, 16-year-old i interviewed coming across the border or deeper across central america saying i'm risking it all but i know i have a job waiting for me. this place my cousin works once people. we depend on these workers. we seem shocked when they come in they are able to quickly find work. we are seeing an uptick.

especially in texas, people know there are jobs. they have a real incentive to get out and start looking for work. host: nobody talks about mexico's culpability in this. make them stop the flow before central americans cross into their country. mexico keeps getting a pass. guest: the one thing that worked very quickly was mexico calling out its national guard on the southern border. one of the strangest things i have seen, central american families crossing through the u.s. to p through border patrols.

that really did slow people coming. real humanitarian concerns about military force against civilians. we have seen some problems on mexico's southern border. the military there has said they made a mistake and they will work with the family. the man who was shot is returning to his country in a vehicle. he was fired upon. real concerns about what that means. it did slow down the number of people crossing in the past. host: why are haitians deported quicker and the problems they are running from the same? is the criteria different depending on where you are coming from? guest: it depends on where you are. the haitians were being expelled, that is the term used, they are returned to mexico.

i think it depends on where along the border, we have seen where mexico will accept people back onto the mexican side. they are fleeing and taking asylum. we have a lot of cubans too who have come through and even nicaraguans that are fleeing very serious conditions and threats. we have a thriving human community because they have been waiting so long. people mentioned massing at the borders, people have been told to wait in mexico as immigration hearings proceed. that is what we are seeing. host: no longer is there a different policy for cubans? guest: no. that ended a while back. they are not given preferential treatment. it has a lot of cubans very concerned and upset about that.

host: johnny in gulfport mississippi. good morning to you. caller: the thing i would like to hear the lady talk about is the difference between where the river is and where the wall is built. the way i understand it, the border patrol does not control the border between where the wall is and where the river is. since they are not doing that, when they get across the river regardless of if they are on the north side of the wall or the south side of the wall, they are in the united states. host: are you talking about the rio grande, what are you talking about? caller: the rio grande river, yes. guest: the rio grande river

right in the middle of the river is where the border starts. the wall, fence, whatever you call it now is built solely on u.s. soil for a lot of reasons. obviously can't build a wall on a river and we have flood control issues. the u.s. wanted that structure to be solely on u.s. soil. so they could ride along either side. by the time someone reaches that wall, they are on u.s. soil, which is why many come up and p through. it would be very difficult to have a wall in the middle of the river. even those who advocate, they acknowledge it will not work everywhere. you have to be strategic where you put those. it will not stop everyone. host: wayne in south carolina.

caller: the way i see it the biggest problem we have in our country today is we don't have a leader. we have a follower. he will follow nancy pelosi and chuck schumer right into doomsday for this country. with all this going on, not just the immigrant situation but the situation in general. we are going downhill. our follower is leading us, unfortunately. thanks for taking my call. guest: i didn't hear a question. host: did you hear something to respond to about the thought? guest: i know a lot of people -- especially here on the border for multiple administrations, the word crisis has been so politicized. i have heard local leaders and some residents say there is a

crisis, it is not on the border, it is in washington. multiple administrations have failed to have the political will to do something to look at the situation and take action whether it is immigration reform or other types of policies to deal with migration in a holistic way. that is the crisis people here will point the finger at. they will point towards washington. host: susan in florida, good morning to you. caller: i just think that folks are missing the point of all of this. all of this immigration, it is about importing as many democratic voters as they can. they just want an open border. the democrats are floating any type of voter id.

is it true that they are receiving money, like $1100 to relocate wherever they want to? guest: i will take the last part, they are not receiving money to relocate. the humanitarian groups here, the shelter gets in touch with relatives or family members. often it is a bus ticket. some could afford fights -- flights if they get help from relatives. no one is giving them cash payouts to go wherever they want. secondly as far as voting democrat, last election in heavily hispanic south texas, president trump did pretty well. i don't know that is an automatic path if you are a certain ethnic city or you could trace your roots to mexico that you will vote democrat.

the election rules have been checked and people have not -- we have not found widespread abuses by immigrants trying to pass themselves off as citizens and vote. we have a real problem trying to engage more especially young latino u.s. citizen voters to get involved and cast ballots. that is the problem we are seeing here. host: what is it like to be border patrol? what is it like it that is your job? guest: over the years i have talked to many. they can't always speak openly but it is a very sebastopol -- stressful job. they became babysitters and had to take care of large numbers of children in holding cells. it takes a real toll. the biggest crisis for them and i will use that word is when they were involved with family

separation where they had to grab screaming children out of the arms of their parents and carry out that duty. that took a real toll. it has been tough. this is an agency that typically doesn't get involved in politics. the union and others have been part of the political discourse and now they are speaking out. it has been hard on the rank and file. you want people to do the best they can to protect the border and be humane with the people they take into custody. it is very stressful. we are seeing people leave order patrol. that is the other part of this. you will hear from agents that the boots on the ground people who are carrying out the work, they did not get that attention they needed. they need to look at what is happening with the men and women of the border patrol.

host: angela kocherga covers the border, she is a news director and reporter for ktep. you could follow her on thank you for the conversation. guest: thank you. host: we are going to take you live to the supreme court where the justices are hearing a case dealing with pay for college athletes. >> all persons having business before the honorable, the supreme court of the united states to get their attention with the court is now sitting. god save the united states and this honorable court. >> we will hear the argument this morning in case 2512, national collegiate athletic legislation versus the consolidated case. >> good morning, mr. chief justice, and may it please the court.