a place for you know your opponent or challenger. that is something we have to understand. if we don't understand that portion right, everything else will not matter. it will not address the fundamental issue which is the communist party and its tendencies and goals. >> find "the weekly" where you get your podcasts. ♪ >> c-span2 is her unfiltered view of government. today we are brought to you by these television companies who provide c-span2 to viewers as a public service. ♪ : joining us this morning from el paso, texas is angela cochurga, news director and border director for ktep radio.

let's begin with the situation on the border. guest: we continue to see large numbers of people come across the families and what they called unaccompanied minors. these are children in some cases. also teenagers, real concerns about some of the order control holding stations. now we have children crowded into these facilities. we see the biden ministration opening more health and human services shelters. reunited with a family member or sponsor with the immigration port. our large military installation here that could have up to 5000

beds, we have 500 children enter that facility yesterday for the first time. host: when do the rising numbers occur? guest: it has been going on for months, dating back to when the trump administration was still in office. we did have a slowdown during the pandemic because a lot of countries had their own lockdown and people couldn't move around. we see a pickup in the winter and then of course leading into the election. we see these seasonal surges. i want to get away from the word surges. these are numbers we have seen in the past of families and children, others coming to look for work but also fleeing situations in central america. violence, gangs, poverty and now we have climate change.

we are starting to build and now as secretary mayorkas said, it is on pace to be the largest change we have seen in decades. host: from the washington times, here in washington, d.c., biden team was warned on border policy. team officials say huge migrants urged to come as no surprise to them. guest: these warnings also went out -- they go out to all administrations. we see right before a new president takes office, a surge. we saw that increase in people before president trump took office. people try to get in quickly because they were worried about a hard-line immigration policy taking effect. we saw that before president biden took office as people trying to figure out is this my time to go.

the warning, i cannot vouch for that. i was not in those meetings. we do know there was a slow transition and information beyond a warning. secretary mayorkas has been a part of dhs for many years. i'm sure he was aware. host: when an unaccompanied child crosses the border, how are they getting here and when they cross, what do they do? guest: toddlers are not making their way up to the border on their own. there are smuggling networks that move all sorts of people. people rely on what they call guides because it is dangerous to travel on your own. the areas are controlled by organized crime groups. these are dangerous journeys. these children are brought up with the guides.

the and send uncle traveling with the child -- chanson uncles traveling with the check -- aunts and uncles traveling with the child. we are talking about children but also the large number of young people are between the ages of 12-17. lots of teenagers, they are taken into custody and border patrol has holding cells for lack of a better word for all of the people they encounter. they're supposed to be in these holding stations for no longer than 72 hours. they are taking longer to move them into hhs custody because of the lack of bed space. they are cared for in a much better environment while health and human services and partner

agencies look for family members and/or sponsors to take care of the children while their case moves through immigration court. children are coming up to reunite with a parent who has been in the u.s. unauthorized, often working and sending money home. too many of them have -- host: do many of them have someone in the united states will vouch for them and if they don't what happens? guest: health and human services and activist organizations tell us the vast majority do have a relative in the u.s. who could doubt for them and care for them. there was a concern about people not coming forward in the trump administration. there are sponsors who are vetted and checked.

there are foster care situations where families will take in this situation. there are facilities where children could wait while the case is moved to immigration court. host: if the person that is the sponsor vouching for them, if that person is not a legal citizen, they are allowed to go with them? guest: they are. these are parents. the goal is in the majority of the cases you want the child to be with the parent. this has been going on for multiple administrations. that has been the common practice. host: what about the families we are hearing about that are crossing the border and claiming asylum? what happens to them? guest: i just reported on this

recently. most of them are turned right back around and send to mexico. the biden administration is acknowledging that. title 42 was implemented when the pandemic started. it allows border patrol to quickly remove people from the country and send them back to mexico in this place -- case. they are sent back to mexico. there are some allowed in. the vast majority are not. often the return to mexico they seem very confused and distraught. people have the idea because if they came enough -- through enough for asylum they would be allowed to stay. many of the shelters where i am across the border from el paso are filled to capacity. i met a young mother who had basically been abandoned by her

guide. she too thought she would be able to come across and ask for asylum. her husband had been murdered in el salvador and she was trying to get to maryland where she has a daughter. she was trapped right there on the border. the bridge where she had been returned, they could help her find shelter. you kept calling out, does he understand what's going on? she said he keeps asking mama, when could we go home? we have tragic situations developing in multiple times with different families. host: the reason they are not allowed to claim asylum is because of the pandemic? caller: correct. they still moving across but they want people sent to mexico.

host: there are some people who are allowed to claim asylum, what is the criteria? guest: the people who are in the remaining mexico program. the migrant protection protocol established that forced people to wait in mexico while their hearings were finally called in the united states. the biden administration ended that. groups of people are allowed in. the ports of entry or international bridges. they all have to have a negative covid test before they could enter the u.s. there are a few exceptions. host: what about the unaccompanied minors, are they given covid testing or vaccinations? guest: they are not given

vaccinations. we are not giving vaccinations to children right now in the u.s. some we are hearing are being tested. there are a good number who are positive. it depends on which congressperson you talk to to get the statistic. others we are told, the families , some of them are tested by ngos who have shelter. when they find someone who is covid positive, families of children, they are isolated and quarantined until they are healthy enough to travel. it is unclear how many of the children are tested and what the percentage of results are. host: robin in alabama, you're

up first for this session. caller: good morning, thank you. my comment is how many migrant children died during the cold spell in texas this past season? i'd like the answer to that question and then i have a follow-up question. guest: we don't know how many children died. we haven't seen any statistics on that. we know some of the migrant families coming through had to be rescued by border patrol. there were a few deaths from hypothermia. we are still trying to get a handle here in texas on how many people died statewide from that deadly winter storm. we don't have the statistics. not a huge number but any individual does as far as a

child would be tragic. we heard last week about a nine-year-old girl who died at the eagle pass stretch of border. she was trying to cross from mexico. she was a mexican child. still trying to get details on what happens there. caller: 111 people were known to have died and you only know of one child migrant that died? is that all the statistics you have? also they said not to use the word surge. i see you are trying not to use the word surge. that is a good word to use. why not use it? guest: what i'm trying to do -- the word crisis is another one.

we are trying to do a better job describing the situation on the ground and giving people information so they could decide what they want to call it. some of these words have become so politicized the minute they come out of someone's mouth people have a judgment call on what they think you believe. you could decide what you think you want to call it. the statistics are tough. we don't have a full picture. in texas we are still getting information about people who live in texas. that is a real problem. host: stephen in florida. caller: thank you for taking my call. could you hear me ok? host: we can, question or comment please. caller: why would we have change or why did the current president change the policies that were in

place and stabilize the border? that is number one. a lot of my clients i work with, they are all in favor of the border wall. in part because they said they have been exposed to the dangers themselves. they feel it is unreasonable that anybody else should keep coming in. i would like to know why the president change these borders. guest: i won't speak on behalf of the biden administration. i could talk about some of the impacts of the policies. you could hear from the president's people daily and why they did it. it has been very limited. it had an impact on who is

coming across. i can't address the border wall quite -- i could cover the border wall question. that has been a tool for border patrols to slow some people down. it is just one of many tools. people are still coming over the bigger, better wall that the trump administration described. i did a story a couple weeks ago. people got ladders and climbed over. some are falling to their death. many are just seriously injured. others are making it across and heading to the u.s. it is one of many tools and it will not -- you will hear from many border patrol agents.

host: roger in nebraska, go ahead. one last call for roger in nebraska. kathy in texas. caller: this lady is not telling the truth. she must be covering up the biden administration or something. these people are coming in surges. it is a border crisis. host: kathy, you have to turned on your telephone. guest: you could certainly call it that if that is the word you want to use. funny of people do call it that. i'm not saying don't use that word. we are seeing huge numbers of people. i'm not disputing that were covering that up. i'm covering that right now, every day i see the large numbers of people. they are coming and many are

being sent back to mexico. the last caller said we should send everyone back to mexico and people would feel comfortable on the side. that is probably true. mexico is our neighbor. that is creating humanitarian problems there. we don't want big problems right next-door with our neighbors either. i am not trying to cover anything up. it is very clear what is happening, we could see it. host: what happens to the communities on the united states side of the border when you have a humanitarian situation in mexico? guest: humanitarian groups work very well together and have shelters that are connected on both sides. people here will respond to try and help as best as they can.

mexico is getting some funding to help with the humanitarian situation. it is a real concern. people may look at it as a foreign country. family ties. this is a concern for people. we have relatives on both sides. host: barbara in oklahoma city. caller: this border thing, i just wish one day that c-span would just one time have a show about trump, he hired immigrants his whole life. while he's been president and twice before he had to pay 25 million dollars for some reason. they sued him.

he hires illegals and does not pay them. while he was president, he said they -- he said he hired 20. i thought you didn't hire them. he has four 50 years. his trump university. this border thing, he will do something about the border. he does it all right. it is open to him. it is just crazy. host: go ahead. caller: i just have been watching the news on this yesterday. the media was allowed into the facility. i saw one of the worst things i have seen ever.

kids, the lady was saying they were not tested because she was unsure about covid. these kids are lying down shoulder to shoulder. the facility said it was supposed to take 250 people, there was 4100 in the building on this lady will not call this a crisis. i thought it was horrific. i was wondering if she has seen anything like that. host: let's ask angela. have you been inside any of these facilities? guest: i have, not this administration. i'm hoping to get in one here soon. i'm glad they are opening it up for people to take a look. i have seen this before, that is unfortunate. i have seen these overcrowded

holding stations. there is one in particular that held children during the last administration. crowded together very young children. there are real concerns about the pandemic. this overcrowding situation that are causing such concern happened about two years ago. it is very hard to get those images. this is again a repeat of what we have seen. no real attempt over multiple administrations to figure out rather than react to the problem if this happens again, it will calm down and probably happen again. what are we going to do in a humane way instead of trying to do things the same way we have always done them? caller: thank you for taking my call.

i have been taking a good look at this crisis. when the country is allowing children to come to our country that is the tragedy in itself. the solution would be for us to build a safe zone where el salvador, nicaragua, honduras, those countries in central america where their territorial borders meet, have it as the process for anyone who wants to come to the united states. we would actually mitigate our cost by having a camp there.

the children wouldn't have to come so far. they would just have to come out of their country to the border. that would be the solution. guest: the administration is looking at ways to do just that. maybe not a camp. you don't want an extended refugee camp to sprout up. you're right, they actually do some of these asylum claims to avoid that long, expensive, and dangerous journey so that claims could be process or at least started their in the home countries. here is an idea you are suggesting and it seems to be a good one. host: how much money on average does it cost to pay guide and what do people have to do to get here? guest: that is the other part of this tragedy. it ranges depending on where you are coming from and how far you have to travel. the woman i talked to from el salvador and others, it could

range as high as $8,000 right now. how could someone who is fleeing poverty afford that? what little they have or whatever they have of value as their collateral and initial down payment is made. i'm hearing right now it is about $2000. sometimes people borrow from families. some are able to take out loans with this understanding they will make installment payments once they reach the u.s. and likely get work. the other problem that happens along the way, the fee goes up and they end up paying more money. with other migrants in our history, they become indebted to these guides, smugglers.

the organized crime, they are real risks to them not just money wise but sometimes safety risks. host: if they are able to get into the united states, how does this organized crime network get that money from them? guest: these groups are international. just like with drug smuggling, human smuggling, people are on both sides. plenty of u.s. citizens are involved in this trade. like you would pay your bank loan, they pay. that is what happens. these groups are on both sides of the border. they are international. host: laura in baltimore, we will go to you next. caller: thank you, c-span as

usual for trying to shed some knowledge and light on this issue. it would be great if you had this guest on more often. i think people are intellectually spinning their wheels on immigration without a lot of clarity. this is a huge part of this whole thing. of course people will be beating down the doors of the united states. they come in illegally and make money and send it out. last time i checked, the pew research website i thought most work going to china. we are focused on folks coming across the border. many of them are mexicans, i understand it is all over latin america, africa, every place.

also, puerto rico is another border people don't talk about. i talked to people, i speak spanish. they tell me they are here because they can't work their farms because they need the chemicals to have a crop. climate change has just ruined their livelihood. there are so many problems and it is so complicated. we have to take it issue by issue. i also wanted to say something about the catholic church's role in this what is happening right now. how instrumental he has been in bringing people illegally in the country. i watched spanish television. this had been predicted months ago. people were saying they were at the border on the others.

they were just waiting there for the outcome of the election. i know i put a lot out there. thank you again, c-span. guest: there is a lot there but one thing i will talk about, a couple things. the climate change situation israel for people in central america. a small coffee farmer said he fled because in honduras there was two hurricanes that flooded half of the country. for generations, we could point the fingers at the workers but what about the employers? i can't tell you how many 14-year-old, 15-year-old, 16-year-old i interviewed coming across the border or deeper across central america saying

i'm risking it all but i know i have a job waiting for me. this place my cousin works once people. we depend on these workers. we seem shocked when they come in they are able to quickly find work. we are seeing an uptick. especially in texas, people know there are jobs. they have a real incentive to get out and start looking for work. host: nobody talks about mexico's culpability in this. make them stop the flow before central americans cross into their country. mexico keeps getting a pass. guest: the one thing that worked very quickly was mexico calling

out its national guard on the southern border. one of the strangest things i have seen, central american families crossing through the u.s. to p through border patrols. that really did slow people coming. real humanitarian concerns about military force against civilians. we have seen some problems on mexico's southern border. the military there has said they made a mistake and they will work with the family. the man who was shot is returning to his country in a vehicle. he was fired upon. real concerns about what that means. it did slow down the number of people crossing in the past. host: why are haitians deported

quicker and the problems they are running from the same? is the criteria different depending on where you are coming from? guest: it depends on where you are. the haitians were being expelled, that is the term used, they are returned to mexico. i think it depends on where along the border, we have seen where mexico will accept people back onto the mexican side. they are fleeing and taking asylum. we have a lot of cubans too who have come through and even nicaraguans that are fleeing very serious conditions and threats. we have a thriving human community because they have been waiting so long. people mentioned massing at the borders, people have been told to wait in mexico as immigration

hearings proceed. that is what we are seeing. host: no longer is there a different policy for cubans? guest: no. that ended a while back. they are not given preferential treatment. it has a lot of cubans very concerned and upset about that. host: johnny in gulfport mississippi. good morning to you. caller: the thing i would like to hear the lady talk about is the difference between where the river is and where the wall is built. the way i understand it, the border patrol does not control the border between where the wall is and where the river is. since they are not doing that,

when they get across the river regardless of if they are on the north side of the wall or the south side of the wall, they are in the united states. host: are you talking about the rio grande, what are you talking about? caller: the rio grande river, yes. guest: the rio grande river right in the middle of the river is where the border starts. the wall, fence, whatever you call it now is built solely on u.s. soil for a lot of reasons. obviously can't build a wall on a river and we have flood control issues. the u.s. wanted that structure to be solely on u.s. soil. so they could ride along either side. by the time someone reaches that wall, they are on u.s. soil, which is why many come up and p through.

it would be very difficult to have a wall in the middle of the river. even those who advocate, they acknowledge it will not work everywhere. you have to be strategic where you put those. it will not stop everyone. host: wayne in south carolina. caller: the way i see it the biggest problem we have in our country today is we don't have a leader. we have a follower. he will follow nancy pelosi and chuck schumer right into doomsday for this country. with all this going on, not just the immigrant situation but the situation in general. we are going downhill. our follower is leading us, unfortunately. thanks for taking my call. guest: i didn't hear a question.

host: did you hear something to respond to about the thought? guest: i know a lot of people -- especially here on the border for multiple administrations, the word crisis has been so politicized. i have heard local leaders and some residents say there is a crisis, it is not on the border, it is in washington. multiple administrations have failed to have the political will to do something to look at the situation and take action whether it is immigration reform or other types of policies to deal with migration in a holistic way. that is the crisis people here will point the finger at. they will point towards washington. host: susan in florida, good morning to you. caller: i just think that folks are missing the point of all of

this. all of this immigration, it is about importing as many democratic voters as they can. they just want an open border. the democrats are floating any type of voter id. is it true that they are receiving money, like $1100 to relocate wherever they want to? guest: i will take the last part, they are not receiving money to relocate. the humanitarian groups here, the shelter gets in touch with relatives or family members. often it is a bus ticket. some could afford fights -- flights if they get help from relatives. no one is giving them cash payouts to go wherever they want.

secondly as far as voting democrat, last election in heavily hispanic south texas, president trump did pretty well. i don't know that is an automatic path if you are a certain ethnic city or you could trace your roots to mexico that you will vote democrat. the election rules have been checked and people have not -- we have not found widespread abuses by immigrants trying to pass themselves off as citizens and vote. we have a real problem trying to engage more especially young latino u.s. citizen voters to get involved and cast ballots. that is the problem we are seeing here. host: what is it like to be border patrol? what is it like it that is your job? guest: over the years i have talked to many.

they can't always speak openly but it is a very sebastopol -- stressful job. they became babysitters and had to take care of large numbers of children in holding cells. it takes a real toll. the biggest crisis for them and i will use that word is when they were involved with family separation where they had to grab screaming children out of the arms of their parents and carry out that duty. that took a real toll. it has been tough. this is an agency that typically doesn't get involved in politics. the union and others have been part of the political discourse and now they are speaking out. it has been hard on the rank and file. you want people to do the best they can to protect the border and be humane with the people they take into custody. it is very stressful. we are seeing people leave order patrol.

that is the other part of this. you will hear from agents that the boots on the ground people who are carrying out the work, they did not get that attention they needed. they need to look at what is happening with the men and women of the border patrol. host: angela kocherga covers the border, she is a news director and reporter for ktep. you could follow her on >> we will be leading this program to go live now to pittsburgh where president biden will deliver remarks on his economic plan for the future. this is live coverage on c-span.

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>> a live look now at pittsburgh, pennsylvania where president biden will deliver remarks on his economic plan for the future.

overleaf that to get underway, here is robert whitson on his book from this morning's washington journal. >> i have been writing about working on behalf of low income people. i was upset that over the last 50 years, we had a war on poverty. we spent about $20 trillion in programs with 70% of that money often going to the poor. it goes to professional experts that parachute in to low income communities. solutions. when they fail, we do not examine the intervention,

instead, we assume that is underfunded. and, so, i have been working at the woodson center for the last 40 years with the real experts at reducing poverty. those are the groups, and the community, low income leaders, they are the real experts. the woodson center has been working with indigenous grassroots eaters and the most drug infested and crime neighborhoods. they have generated approaches that have effectively addressed some of the problems of poverty and violence. and despair. but, their accomplishments are unrecognized. therefore, underutilized. so, what i have done over the past 40 years, i have walked with these groups, these individuals. what i did in my book was

chronicle the valuable lessons that i have learned from these real anti-poverty experts. and, i distilled these lessons in principles that will help guide people to understand how to find these grassroots healing agents. how to assist them in ways that do not injure them with a helping hand. host: before we get to your principles, why are the other programs failing? guest: it is like a transplant. if you go into your physician's office and you have a heart murmur, he does not recommend a transplant. what he does, is try to recommend remedies that are the least intrusive. then, what we do when it comes to adjusting poverty, we have

people at universities and think takes, they designed remedies for the poor. they ask which projects are fundable, not solvable. that is why they have imposed programs that track with a helping hand. and, so, our approach is to find out what is working. but, the fact that we have spent $20 trillion in the past 50 years on programs that aid the poor and we are told that poverty has declined very much in the last 50 years. obviously, we are doing has not worked. we have documented not only the failure but disintegration. particularly the black community. with 70% out of wedlock births,

that is not something that has been associated with the black community. this is not, as some would have you believe, a legacy of slavery and jim crow. that is patently untrue. and, we have documented that. host: what is it attributed to? guest: the largest drop in poverty occurred in the black community in 1940. it was 85%. it was reduced to 25% in 1960. and that is because of the self-help efforts undertaken in these communities. we have done is documented the fact that the first hundred years after slavery, black americans achieved great strides in reducing poverty. out of wedlock births, in some

cases, we were denied access to hotels we built our own colleges. but, all of that changed in the 1960's. in fact, in 1930 during the depression, black americans have the highest marriage rate of any group in society. people can walk safely in those communities without fear of being assaulted. the incarceration weight, on the 20% at the turn of the century. so, what happened in the 60's, i chronicle in my book, is that the welfare system, sociologists at columbia university school of social work, their goal was -- they are socialists and their

goal was to emphasize the contradiction of capitalism by encouraging low income people, particularly black, to flood the welfare system. but, they could not have done alone on the policy track. the war on poverty started at that time. there was a stigma in the black community about being on welfare. so, they were supported by the women's movement and also the black power movement because they said if they can separate work from income, it means that it may be redundant. all of the predictions and forecasts, by increasing welfare assistance, happened.

in fact, within four years of the early 70's, they flooded into the welfare systems. like chicago, philadelphia, washington, d.c.. and, particularly, new york. they came into the welfare system at a time when the unemployment rate for blacks in new york was under 4%. so, what they predicted, came true when the black power movement, the other said the nuclear family is eurocentric, therefore racist. and, that welfare should not be seen as social insurance. welfare should be interpreted as reparations. when welfare departments attempted to require women to declare paternity as a condition for receiving welfare, the aclu and others sued for privacy rights that prohibited questions like this being asked. so, as a consequence, you saw

for the first time, an explosion of the out of wedlock birth. from 85% two parent households in the 60's to now. where it is 70% out of wedlock birth. crime, violence, school dropout rates are rampant in america it is tied directly to the policies of the 60's, it not related to jim crow. host: are you saying it was a conspiracy? guest: no, i think some of these people were well intended. that is what makes it difficult, to challenge. because, one of the most difficult things to challenge

when someone injures you, following is more difficult to challenge with balance. when somebody thinks you are doing a favor, doing something to help you, what they are doing is ill-advised, that is what makes it so difficult. i think people generally, people think they were being helpful. unfortunately, you have people doing bad things on behalf of the people they are supposed to be helping. host: i will invite her viewers to join in on this conversation, if you're a democrat, dial (202) 748-8000, republicans, (202) 748-8001, independents (202)

748-8002. mr. woodson, you are a conservative. you read about integrity, transparency, resilience, witness, innovation, agency, access and grace. how does this differ than liberal progressives? guest: first of all, i don't find what i am doing is conservative. i consider my views radical pragmatist. host: [laughter] ok, defined that. guest: all of us, when we are in the public square, we should meet the demand of whether or not your proposal had the consequence of improving the quality of life of the people you say you intended to help. so, when i have chronicled in this book, these principles are based upon solutions that have

been successfully designed and implemented by people. my focus. i can take you, and my book i take you into a neighborhood in washington, d.c.. a public housing development that i work closely with in the 80's. there were 600 units, 3000 people. a mother there, abandoned by her husband, and then, help other residents there to organize and drive the drug dealers out. and, as a consequence, they sent 600 kids to college from one of public housing development. almost a limiting teen pregnancy in the community. it became a