online article about order enforcement and building a law -- a wall. we will take your calls and you can join the conversation on facebook and twitter washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning and welcome to washington journal. the u.s. capitol is under strict security following a failed attack on the building friday. an officer was killed along with the suspect who ran a car into a security barricade. the incident brings up questions of how much security the u.s. capitol needs and what could be done to keep lawmakers and those who work for them and protect them safe. what is your reaction to the attack killing the officer and suspect?

we will open up the normal lines, republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats your number is (202) 748-8000. independents called in at (202) 748-8002 -- call in at (202) 748-8002. you can always text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media on twitter @cspanwj and facebook.com/c-span. the capitol is understood security following the failed attack on friday. i want to read to you about what happened from a story in rol lcall.com. " u.s. capitol officer was killed after a man ran a vehicle into him and another officer and a barricade.

the suspect exited the cart wielding an from ignored commands, once towards officers at which time u.s. capitol police officers fired upon the suspect, activating -- acting chief told reporters. capitol police announced the suspect wasn't custody and died after being transferred to the hospital. the other officer was hospitalized according to an update from police wasn't stable and nonthreatening condition. the daily events but the complex into lockdown for two hours -- deadly events put the complex into lockdown for two hours." flags are at half mast across washington, d.c. and the capitol building following the death of police officer william evans. the suspect was killed during the attack.

the author of the article we just read from rollcall is with us. we will talk to katherine tully-mcmanus about what she is finding out about what is going on in the capital. good morning. guest: good morning. host: what is the latest we know following this attack? guest: what we know, i a lot of what is in that piece about the attack itself. the surviving officer who was injured in that attack is in stable and nonwhite threatening -- nonlife threatening condition. unfortunately officer evans did die. the other officer is expected to survive. host: what are we hearing from members of congress? congress was not in session

when this happened. guest: it was a recess week and a friday, which would have missed congress even if it was in session. i spoke to congressman tim ryan at a press conference virtually. he is the chairman of the legislative branch appropriations subcommittee. he is in charge of funding and oversight of the capitol police department. he talked about a reevaluation of security of the capital. there have been intensive reviews after the attack on january 6, where capitol police were overrun. the building itself overrun. he says this will add another level of scrutiny and evaluation, because this attack on friday was so different. a single person in a vehicle is

so different than the thousands and thousands of rioters. it is a different type of threat, there will be in evaluation of both of those layers. in terms of reaction from lawmakers, he spoke to many of his colleagues who described them being shaken. he said this rips the scab off. does what he said about uncertainty and concerns about lawmakers safety. he acknowledged that officer evans was a frequent, friendly face. staffers, lawmakers, people going in and out regularly new him and have devastating that is to the community -- knew him and

how devastating that is to the community. host: we saw an immediate change to the grounds of the capitol building after january 6. do we expect to see any major changes to security around the capitol following friday? guest: all of the road closures related to that investigation of the north barricade were lifted around 9:15 last night. additional closures have not been put in place. i expect enhanced staffing and the national guard is still on hand. they are in a tall, large, razor wire wrapped fence encompassing the capitol.

it is notable that this incident took place inside what had been an additional parameter -- perimeter. those barricades have been taken down in recent weeks. due to pressure from lawmakers who said they did not like operating behind a fortress that a limited access to the capital. they are concerned about their own safety. it is a delicate balance. congressman tim ryan emphasized yesterday that a bipartisan effort is needed to strike this balance. there needs to be less demonization of security practices at the capital. so they can focus on effective solutions. instead of the so-and-so is hiding behind a fence or so-and-so does not want to let people into the capital. host: there was criticism

following january 6 and what happened. what is the reaction to how the security is being provided following yesterday question mark to see anybody saying that capitol police did anything wrong? guest: i have not heard that. what i have heard is an acknowledgment of this horrible, deadly year that capitol police have had. there are criticisms and investigation ongoing to january 6. the police were overrun, there needs to be answers to how and why that happened. only four ends -- only four officers have died actively defending the capital against attacks. two of them in the first four months of 2021.

before that, the last two officers to died while actively defending the capital were in 1998. there are officers who spent their entire career on the police force who never had a colleague passed away. folks serving on the force have had to in four months. they are getting additional mental health support. we had officer leaving good -- levingood die at his own hands after january 6. there is a real straight on the mental health -- strain on the mental health through these crises. host: what do we know about the suspect? guest: we do not know much. there has been reporting that

this attacker was named noah green, age 25, and in interviews from the washington post with his brother, indicate that there was mental illness and drug use at play. we do not know his mental capacity or status at the time of this attack. what we did hear from the metropolitan police chief there is clarity this was not terrorism related and not an ongoing threat. this was one man and his vehicle. host: we would like to thank katherine tully-mcmanus, a rollcall writer for being with us if walking us through the incident at the capital on

friday. thank you so much for your time. guest: thank you. host: we want to know your reaction to the u.s. capitol attack on yesterday. let's go to the phoneline and starting with deandre from miami, florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. the country right now is at a time of uncertainty, everybody is angry, suffering from the pandemic and the results of the election. i feel like a really should get closer to god, jesus and try to unite. less division, unless hate. -- less division, less hate. times are treacherous, we have to be careful, on guard. put the whole country under martial law.

god bless me. host: matt from new orleans, louisiana on the republican line. good morning. caller: i have studied islam. i have read 42 books about them from islamic bookstores. studied with some of the islamic leaders. i noticed what he did is actually -- is exactly what a terrorist would do, attack the person and get out while he is wounded and use a knife. i want to be fair i watch fox and newsmax, they say he came from the nation of islam. that lady probably knows and does not want to say because that would not be right in these times of propaganda people want

to use one way or another. to fit the narrative. if this is true, somebody should look into louis farrakhan and all of the hate he spews out. i wish everybody a happy easter. be safe. host: let's go to card from mount union, pennsylvania on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. the attack is a statement of a larger problem within the united states. what you have is a lot of people placing all of their focus on race. when you do that the population begins to reactants but up into groups.

they want to attack everybody for everything that is not like them. there is a bigger question going on. i understand security is of utmost importance. when you begin to destroy this society by focusing on drinks -- race, white, black, asian, these are the results you come up with. host: let's go to dairy from illinois on the democratic line, good morning. -- derry from illinois on the democratic line, good morning. caller: it is a shame what is going on at the capital. -- capitol. they should -- i do not know,

one of the previous calls put god first and i think that is what should happen. it is a shame that people are losing their lives. thank you jesse, have a good day. host: the acting police chief from the capitol police talk to reporters on friday about the officers involved in the attack. here he is talking about the officers involved. [video clip] >> to u.s. capitol police officers were transported to two different hospitals. it is with a heavy heart that i announce one of our officers has succumbed to his injuries. we are not able to release any information, names, age, date of birth at this time.

we still have to notify of kin. i asked the public to keep u.s. capitol police and their families in your prayers. this has been a difficult time for u.s. capitol police. after the events of january 6 and now the event that have occurred today. host: the washington post has a story this morning about the person who has been accused and was killed in the attack on the u.s. capitol friday. i will read a few paragraphs. " u.s. capitol police said a man crashed his vehicle into two officers at the barricade outside of the capitol building before getting out of the car and charging with a knife. at least one officer opened fire , fatally wounding him.

several people identified the suspect as noah green. noah green in his early 20's was remembered as a stalwart defensive back on the christopher newport university football team before he slipped into deeper religiousness and paranoia that left family and friends concerned about his mental state. friends and family say that he blamed former teammates and roommates were dragging him with ascetics, -- xanax. noah green felt the episode left him addicted to the drug and suffering from withdrawal symptoms. the suspect is being identified as a man named noah green. " he has been described as some who might have had mental issues -- somebody who might have had mental issues. let's talk to della from texas

on the independent line. -- dale from texas on the independent line. caller: my condolences to officer's family and the assailant's family. we hear about help fences and these things should go up around the capital, but around the border they are not needed. we did not hear mention of the suspect's race, we always hear about it when they are white. it is sad, there is a sickness over this country. it is not specific to one race, it is to all. host: dale, what situation are you talking about with the suspect being white? are you talking about a normal

reporting, what happened on january 6? caller: anytime i hear about any kind of incident that involves white people it is always pointed out they are white. it is my understanding it is a judgment of color, just like in the incident of the uber driver killed by two young teenagers. they were never described with the race. that is a dividing factor to me. if you've reported in one color aspect, we already reported in all aspects. host: one of things i tell my journalism students, unless the race matters to the story it should not be reported at all. caller: do it across the board. what you tell your students, i admire.

there are so many reporters out there that is the first thing they jump to. maybe they should tear class -- go to your class. host: i agree. let's go to follow-up on the republican fine. good morning. caller: thank you for taking m-- my call. what was not mentioned is the young man became radicalized in islam. host: where did you hear that from? caller: in several articles over the last day. he was a follower of louis farrakhan. some of his social media posts were deleted that stated in recent days he has become radicalized. there seems to be an issue that

is not being addressed. host: philip in what way did religion play into this story? have we heard much about religion from the people who are arrested for being in the capital on january 6? how did religion play into this? caller: a complaint into any situation -- it can play into any situation where extremism takes place. with a christian, it seems to be front and center, and today's politically correct climate, if it is a minority religion like islam, it seems to be off limits. host: i've not heard much about religion following the january 6 attack. i have not heard many people talk about what the religion was of the people who were in the capital then.

maybe you heard something different. caller: it was more about race than religion. the climate of our society right now, there are sony issues not being talked about. it is very selective journalism in my opinion. i thank you for taking michael and i agree with the previous call. we need to seek the lord. these are troublesome times. the lord is our answer. i think with easter tomorrow, it is a good time for all of us to seek the lord and ask for healing. host: robert from waldorf, maryland on the independent line. good morning. caller: i think race has to do with it is everything the media does is white supremacy, all day long white people are evil, this

that the other. now you have a black muslim taught by louis farrakhan attack the capital. why are we talking about a black insurgent? you have a muzzle attack a bunch of people in colorado, shot 10 white people, we do not talk about that. we never got to the bottom of the guy in las vegas who shot 52 country music fans. we never heard the end of that. but you make all of the accusations within five minutes of january 6 -- blamed a white guy for shooting up guys in colorado. this guy kills a bunch of conservative, trump supporters and the fbi cannot get to the bottom of that? you do not think this black guy is a muslim? the same religion that attacked the twin towers, pentagon and you cannot point that out? you are hypocrites.

this is a black guy that attacked the capital, two black girls killed a muslim in d.c. but you do not have the and is the -- have the honesty to say that. you let them off the hook. host: let's go to derek from parental town, maryland on the democratic line. caller: good morning. nothing will ever compare to the six of generate when trumpets come invaded the capitol -- six of january when trump's gone -- trump scum invaded teh capitol. -- teh capitol-- the capitol.

nobody is more faith-based than black people. it is what got us through 400 years of slavery, jim crow. i am sick and tired of hearing these people talk about the lord. they pray to that white guy with the blond hair, blue eyes who never existed. he was a black, north african, hebrew israelite. the suspect, i feel real sorry for what happened to that guy. he was mentally disturbed. when i hear these white people give all of these excuses, if you could ever walk in my shoes, i guy who worked 35 years, got a degree in structural engineering and had a job and made more money than most of them. i wish they would stop being ignorant.

host: let's read reaction from lawmakers to what happened on friday. here is a story from cnn that recaps some of the reaction. " house speaker nancy pelosi ordered the flags at the capital flown at half staff further in offer -- in honor of the u.s. capitol police officer who died after a suspect ramped a vehicle into a police barricade outside of the building. another officer has been injured. " " today america's heart has been broken by the tragic death of one of our capitol police officer's, he is a merger for our democracy." " both pelosi and chuck schumer spoke with the family of the officer last night saying that

she had conveyed prayers and condolences to evans' mother." " may be a comfort that the flag is flying at half staff and that the president has set this as an honor at the white house as well." "schumer told family matters that the senate mourns the loss and that he will be forever part of the community." that comes from cnn. this was house speaker nancy pelosi and chuck schumer giving condolences to the family of officer william evans. let's go back to the phone lines and start with steve from ohio on the independent line.

pronounce the name of your city for me. are you there? caller: can you hear me? go ahead -- host: go ahead. caller: the last individual talking about how it is so unfair for that black person who committed murder by running his car aid to that police officer it is ridiculous. that he would feel anything for the man. he committed murder. it should be left at that. as far as the color of the skin, black or white, people who commit murder, offenses should be punished. there should not be exceptions. host: let's go to james from

florida on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to give my condolences to those families. those individuals were working, doing what they were supposed to and lost their lives because of mental illness and people wanting to make a statement. we have to get away from using color all the time, look at individual and people. not just a group or color of people. it is wrong to try to go to our capitol which represents everyday regardless of your color or creed, to try and hurt other people. the lawmakers, the individuals there to protect the capitol, it is wrong.

this person that they did this -- this person that did this looks like he had a lot mental issues. it does not excuse what he did. the people who were there are generally six, some of them probably had mental issues, but does not excuse what they did. everybody has to be responsibility for hurting other people, individuals. especially people there to protect us and lawmakers. we need a lot of in this nation. we need to step away from pointing the finger at other people. when you're pointing the finger, there are three or four pointing at you. we need to take an introspective look at our self. get away from our own prejudices and preconceived notions about each other. realize that we are all americans, we live in the best country in the world. we need to try to recognize that

, work towards a better country and not keep wanting fingers at each other. host: bob from philadelphia, pennsylvania on the republican line. caller: good morning c-span. thank you for taking my call. amen to that gentleman. he spoke some great words. unfortunately we have race baiting from our president all the way down through the media. i have to put you out jesse. if this was a white man, white supremacist, some of the you could identify with qanon who killed a black officer, that would be the first thing you would have led with. instead you avoided the obvious

facts, it was a black man that killed a white man. he was a black racist. host: let me stop you there. you will not hear me say anything like that, because we would not report race unless race was involved. we were not report religion unless religion was involved. i doubt the people invest getting have any answers. i think you are wrong. i am not going to argue with you. i am the journalist here. caller: stop interrupting me. host: let's go to brian from virginia beach, virginia. good morning. caller: jesse? host: go ahead. caller: easy one.

i am trying to get a congressional guide for two weeks, not of the numbers associated with c-span will take me into being able to order the guide. host: we do not sell the guide here. caller: the congressional guide of the new congress, all of the people in there. host: hold on, let's see if we can get you to somebody who can help you. i am going to put you on hold. we will see if we can get some of the to get you the guide. let's go to david from jasper, indiana on the republican line. good morning. caller: i have to say that the judgment buyer to this other individual, he had something right. maybe you would not have said those things. i believe most mainstream media

if it was on the other foot, where it was a quite individual killing a black person it would have been front page news. i am against all of that, they are race baiting. i am old enough to remember a time when i was a child -- i lived in detroit, michigan, i went to a store and remembering a young black kid going up to a counter and a lady telling him he could not sit there because he was the wrong color. i had family in texas in the 60's, and i would stop at different places and see the segregation. white swim here, black swim there. they are trying to separate us again by making one side against the other. the journalist might be teaching -- you might be teaching some good ones but the rest are baiting us. host: carl from portland, oregon

on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i am glad to hear c-span allowing all of us to share our opinions. my opinion is your program gives the average of center of the line reporting. i have heard all kinds of explanations of the news. i appreciate what you give, keep it up. host: this attack on friday happened as a lawmakers were talking about removing some of the fencing around the capitol and setting rules about not allowing permanent fencing.

i am good to read the story from the hilt that talks about legislation that was just being discussed in the u.s. capitol about security following january 6. "i buy person group of senators will introduce legislation to ban permanent fencing amid backlash against the security measures in the wake of the january 6 attack. senators roy blunt and chris van hollen will introduce the bill on thursday and told a press conference with a gorgeous person who introduced the same legislation in the house last month. the bill would prevent federal funding from being used to construct a permit fence around capitol building score on capitol grounds. the senate bill comes as capit ol officers removed an outer

perimeter of fencing, which extend box away, allowing roads that had been closed in the wake of the attack by a pro-trump mob to reopen." the attack came just as senators and lawmakers removing legislation to ban permanent fencing at the capitol building. what is your reaction to what happened friday? an attack that killed an officer and suspect. renee from west chester, pennsylvania on the democrat line. caller: good morning. i thought it was disgraceful, disgusting, some of the people of congress did not want the protection anymore, wanted fences down, walls down. now we see they need to be continued with some type of security. the set think that bothers me, i

feel bad for the capitol police, white, black, asian, latino, i do not care. i feel bad for all of them working there. they are working under a lot of stress. ever since they have been attacked on january 6 by a large mob of people. host: at a house appropriations subcommittee last month, active u.s. capitol police chief elaborated on the growing threats to members on capitol hill and the challenges to the police force. [video clip] >> our mission has become difficult. in the first two months of 2021, there has been over a 90 per three -- a 93% increase in threats to members compared to last year. from 2017-2 thousand 20, there has been a 118 percent increase

in total threats and directions of interest with majority of those suspects residing outside of washington, d.c. on the capitol complex, the level and complexity of those west to the capitol are increasing. this was clear when insurrection is try to stop congress from certifying the 2020 electoral college. due to the heroic actions of officers with assistance of mpd, national guard and other law enforcement partners, the rioters were prevented from accomplishing their goals. we realize the possibility of a similar resident -- incident is a clear and present danger. the events of january 6 demonstrate that uscp must adjust to carry out our mission

and this will require a significant investment in staffing, training, tools and information gathering to meet the ever-changing security challenges. including the threat of domestic terrorism. host: let's see what some of our social media followers have to say about the attacks on the u.s. capitol. one text says, my condolences to the family of the officer who died at the surprise for the injured officer. i feel this might happen again. there are a lot of people not happy with the way our leaders in washington are running the country. another text says as far as the attack on the officer, i feel bad for him and his family's loss. another text says, how does a killing turn into a racist conversation? white people are unbelievable in

their hypocrisy, profiting from slavery and never paid reparations as they paid white slave owners whose slaves ran away. it appears the perpetrator had a major mental illness that was not identified or treated. we cannot make assumptions about race, religion or politics. mental illness is a medical condition. as the covid crisis receipts we are getting back to normal, and very sick society with millions of people desperate, suffering from untreated mental illness and further evidence that the empire is falling apart. on behalf of the people who respect law enforcement, i would like to give my deepest condolences to the family and friends of the capitol hill placement murdered on friday. i refuse to politicize or trivialize this man's death. america has a mental health crisis and this was another

example of this crisis, impacting our lives on a daily basis. we want to know your reaction to the attacks on the capital. let's go to mr. brown from washington, d.c. on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i am well. caller: people are trying to confuse the people, they do not know what his intentions were. i would not call it an attack on the capital, i would say it is a young man with a mental problem. the killing of the police officer, they never said how he was killed. did they run him over with a car? somebody is not telling the whole truth. if the guy was going to kill somebody, he would not come with a knife.

this man had a mental problem. i think the capitol hill police might've shot their own people and are not going to put it out that the officer was shot by people. host: let's go to chris from washington, d.c. on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for having me. couple of comments, most of which has reference to do with your previous caller and a couple of others. i am an african-american. i agree with one of your republican calls, i am an independent, that looked at how the media does treat this. i think the media is glossing over his views. which he has clearly written on social media. they are not addressed as racist views, they are at the minimum extremist views.

i think it needs to be highlighted in some of these other media poems about how they are glossing over and not giving it the same treatment as if it was a white man that killed a black person. i will close with this, with regards to the last caller look at any video footage. you will see the officer standing in front of their kids all of the time to check cards -- in front of barricades all of the time to check cards. that is conspiracy theory, officers shooting their own, officers have to stand in front barricades. i will close with that. it would be great if other media programs gave equal light and treatment to extremist views on both sides. host: let's go to sandra from north carolina.

good morning. caller: good morning. are you ready? it is a crying shame, that this country is going to hell in a hand basket. it is always black, white, black, white, we are all the same. god created each and one of us equal. it does not matter what color, if they would leave black and white out of it and get rid of the hypocrites that are trying to run our country. they are worried about this building, putting up this fence, but they are not worried about this country because of what is going on with the order. i have watched that every day. that is a shame. they are to take that crazy president out of office and his vice president because they are

not going to do anything. the american people, black or white, are going to have to put up with all of these immigrants. all they want to do is sit up there and draw their paychecks while the rest of the united states starves. host: let's go to eddie from the bronx, democratic line. good morning. caller: hello there i am eddie. host: go ahead. caller: the guy has some serious mental problems. the bigger question is, what happened on january 6 is not over. the white supremacist of america is not happy about the way this government is going. this thing about why would biden let all of these illegal aliens into the country, which could affect black people, we have a serious homeless crisis in

america? it does not make sense bringing more people into this country which could have the covid. no sense. host: ned from tkachuk, idaho on the independent line -- catch up-- ketchup, idaho on the independent line. caller: i wish people would understand, a lot of these people -- all of these people even the shooter at the capit ol it is back to them being under the influence of drugs. every incident we keep seeing leads to a toxicology report of drugs in the system.

and this time -- it is time to get serious about narcotics and the power of cartels in mexico. they are able to manufacture their own chemical drugs. it is a transnational -- criminal organizations. the cartel is in 42 countries. it is a major problem. sounds like the poor shooter was doing just fine -- somebody says he was given drugs or thought he was given drugs then he lost it. host: president joe biden put out a statement on yesterday on

the attack at the u.s. capitol. "jill and i were heartbroken to learn of the attack on the security checkpoint on the capitol grounds which killed officer william evans and left a fellow officer fighting for his life. we send our condolences to his family and everybody grooving the loss. we know what a difficult time this has been for the capital, everybody who works there and those who protect it. i have been getting briefings from my homeland security advisor and give further updates as the investigation proceeds." that is a statement from president joe biden. let's talk to gina from mississippi on the republican line. caller: good morning. i would like to think the call screener for taking my call --

thank the call screener for taking my call. the previous one did not take my calls. i would like to thank him for taking conservative and liberal calls on an equal basis. host: we usually try to mix them up every time. caller: i watch all of the time. i have been a listener for many years. since trump was in office, it is mostly a three to one liberal calls to conservative cause. the call screener for the last couple of months would hang up on me every time i got tall. thank to washington journal -- thanks to the washington journal. host: let's go to barber from

houston, texas on the democratic line. caller: i would like to send my condolences to the officer's family. i am intrigued by company colors want to make this a race issue, what happened on january 6 was predominantly a race issue, you cannot overlook have that been a group of black people it would not have taken place. what happened yesterday is one man with a mental illness problems seeking help, wanting help, did not know how to get help and did what he did. that is one person. additional lot -- it is not like there is always an issue of a black person going crazy. we did not cause january 6, if you do not like what happened on jeannie rhee six, the people called out. somebody wants to call in and say it is black and white, hatred is not taught in schools,

it is homegrown. what is going on is older people who were taught hatred. let the children become at the border b. people want to talk about the border and do not let them in. they had to let white people, black people in. you cannot call a race car, we are all humans and must treat each other equally and fairly. host: linda from myrtle beach, south carolina on the independent line. good morning. are you there? caller: yes i am here. host: go ahead. caller: thank you for taking my call. host: i think we lost linda, let's go to bruce from baltimore, maryland on the republican line. caller: good morning.

i like the term colorblind. you are not supposed to judge anybody by their skin culture, -- by their skin color, culture or race. i voted for barack obama and supported donald trump, it is a was the same thing. the instruction are generally six and nancy pelosi plays the race card, now she is concerned about -- she has made statements federal law enforcement officers went to portland, oregon to stop black lives matter, antivert, a very radical groups from burning a federal courthouse. she called them stormtroopers. representative james clyburn called them gestapo, that is not race baiting. i was originally a democrat

because of collective bargaining. i voted for barack obama. i honestly thought he would bring us together. barack obama and joe biden are some of the most corrupt elected officials. he played the race card all of the time. i voted for donald trump -- i became an independent ipo before black candidates, what candidates, democratic candidates, republican candidates, conservative candidates, progressive candidates. i am concerned with where this country is going. joe biden plays the race card all of the time. we are concerned about voter security, what does joe biden say? georgia is concerned -- let's make sure we check ballots, are they signed? voter id cards they issued id

cards, in the state of maryland i'm allowed to have that. host: james from new york, new york on the makati client. good morning. -- on the democratic line. good morning. caller: happy easter. i have traveled the world and i love this show. i cannot believe what i am listening to. i have been treated like a human being in greece for one month and these callers, i cannot believe what i am listening to. donald trump with the combination of social media, the oath keepers, boogaloo boys have -- white supremacy and people feel like they can attack the

capital. host: kurt from south carolina on the independent line, good morning. caller: good morning sir. this tragic incident is a fact of mental illness. i worked in a psychiatric center for over 30 years. the onset of mental illness is largely unpredictable. it is something we have to live with. i was very glad that this individual did not have an assault weapon available to him. he would not have killed just one officer. he probably would have killed several. i cannot believe some of the

calls try to make this a race or political issue. it is a mental in lists -- it is a mental illness issue. host: kwame from freeport, new york on the democratic line. caller: this whole thing is crazy. blessings to everybody. we have to stop fighting amongst each other. it is both democrats and republicans, republicans more and democrats still more -- the problem is we have to be together. trump had problems, trump is a problem. have a blessed day. host: coming up next, two states

approved marijuana legislation this week and there is a question on how the biden administration will tackle legalization. joining us next to discuss this is justin smith with marijuana business d.l. hughle -- marijuana business daily. we will talk with kevin robert about the recent national review online article advocating to use stimulus funds to build a wall along the border. stick with us. ♪ >> today on the communicators, former chair of the federal communications commission during the obama administration. >> the complaint that was made during our term about net neutrality is that it would stifle innovation.

it would stifle investment. the reality is in the period of time one that net neutrality rules were in place, the internet service providers spent more on capital investment than they spent after the trump fcc removed the rules. it was that investment that has allowed us to be successful now during covid when everybody is on zoom and stressing out the network. the point of the matter is, what we tried to do this basic american concept of not having gatekeepers for crucial services and encouraging competition among those using those networks. >> watched the communicators today at 6:30 p.m. eastern on c-span.

sunday on in-depth, a live conversation with science writer and author kerry washington. her most recent book is carte blanche. >> when companies use profits to measure their success in the medical arena, the problem is that we cannot expect the companies to care about us. we cannot expect the companies to make less money because they care about our health. they do not care about our health. our government, the people that we pay and should expect to care about our health and should defend us, our government should be raining in these companies, forcing them to develop things that fit the public need. it is not. >> joint with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets sunday at noon eastern on book tv's in-depth on c-span2.

visit c-span shop.org to get a copy of kerry washington's book. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with jeff smith, the legal and regulatory reporting for marijuana business daily. he is here with us to talk about marijuana legalization in the united states. good morning. guest: good morning. host: tell us a little bit about marijuana business daily. how long has your publication existed? where can people find it? guest: we are reaching the 10th year anniversary. we cover the business of the marijuana industry. you can find us on mjb izdaily.com. host: there has been action in states around the nation the last few weeks following

marijuana legalization for let's go through some of the states. guest: it has been a huge week. new york lawmakers legalized an adult use program just this week. that is followed by voters in neighboring new jersey approving an adult use market. we think new york is a huge deal because it is the country's financial hub. it has tremendous influence in terms of investment, markets, and policymaking. it might help nudge federal marijuana reform forward. out in the west, new mexico legalized adult use this week. that's followed by if you months voters in arizona legalizing adult use. that market is already up and running. we have this domino effect on

the east coast, a little bit in the southwest, and before that, we have virginia legalized adult use about a month ago. that is a little more complicated because some of those provisions will need to be reenacted next year. that shows this ripple effect down the east coast. at the november ballot box, it was a clean sweep for marijuana. voters approved either medical marijuana, or adult use legalization, in five states, including south dakota and mississippi, states that have been red states. in mississippi, medical marijuana, and in south dakota, voters approved adult use and recreational marijuana simultaneously.

there is just a lot of momentum right now with marijuana legalization. host: for our viewers who may not understand, can you explain the difference between decriminalization and legalization? guest: decriminalization, usually it involves no longer will marijuana possession be a criminal offense. in these states like new york that are legalizing adult use, they are going to be expunging the criminal records of people that had low-level marijuana offenses. legalization is a little bit different. on the federal level, it would mean removing marijuana completely from the controlled substances act so it can be

bought and sold in the commercial markets set up. it is broader. one of the issues we see with the biden administration is that they might be for decriminalization, but they are not for federal legalization. they do not want to remove marijuana completely from the controlled substances act. host: we are talking about new york, new mexico, virginia, and new jersey. what is going on with south dakota? guest: the governor there is fighting the voter will essentially. she instructed one of the state officials to file a legal challenge on a technical constitutional issue, saying the referendum the voters passed in november was not legal.

a lower court has agreed with that, but it has been appealed to the state supreme court. that is for the adult use of recreational marijuana. for medical marijuana, she has tried to delay. she wanted to delay the program, but those efforts failed. she is very anti-marijuana. we have seen before where public officials before a referendum gets on the ballot will try to convince voters to defeat it. we have seen issues with secretaries of state approving signatures on a petition and then say this is a new playbook after the fact, after voters have approved, overwhelmingly passed a measure, public officials stepping in and trying to reverse it. host: we talked about the

actions that have happened over the last week. are there any other states that look like they are getting ready to make a move on marijuana, like perhaps wisconsin? guest: we are watching a lot of states. sort of the ripple effect in the east. we are watching pennsylvania, rhode island, connecticut, delaware, all considering recreational adult use marijuana. we are watching the south closely because with mississippi voters approving medical marijuana, we also have alabama, kentucky, and south carolina legislatures considering medical marijuana. there is a little bit of activity in the midwest in kansas and nebraska in terms of the possibility of legalizing medical marijuana. not quite as likely i think, but there is a lot of activity going on. host: let me remind our viewers

they can take part in this conversation. we are going to open up a special line. if you support marijuana legalization, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8000. if you oppose marijuana legalization in the u.s., we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. if you are undecided on marijuana legalization, your number is going to be (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can also text us at (202) 748-8003. and we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. how big of an industry is recreational marijuana in the united states this year? guest: we are kind of projecting

22 to $26 billion for all marijuana sales. about one third of that would be medical marijuana. a huge industry growing at least 20% per year. host: what is the tax structure on legalized marijuana? a lot of different states are trying to figure out the taxing and sales structure for legalized marijuana in the united states. guest: it is all over the place. a big factor has been states want to raise more revenue, so they look at recreational marijuana as a way to do that, especially with the pandemic and budgets are strained. new york is going to be a 13% tax. 4% would go to municipalities. in new mexico, it is going to

start at 12%, an excise tax on top of what state and local taxes are. that would be 12% plus 5% to 9%, so as much as 20%, and they want to gradually increase that over time. we see a lot of different models that experts feel the lower the taxes, the better the chance is you are going to curb the illicit market. if you have taxes too high and product prices too high, the illicit market is going to continue to thrive. it is kind of a balance between those things. host: there have been some people in the marijuana market who have argued that legalization could be a fix for state budget shortfalls. you agree? --do you agree? guest: i'm sorry.

host: a fix for state budget shortfalls in the pandemic? guest: i agree. host: explain that reasoning for us. guest: if i understand the question correctly -- i am having trouble hearing. i think the revenues over time will help offset some of these budget deficits, but it will not be as much as some public officials are saying it will. host: we have a question from one of our social media followers they want you to address. can jeff discuss the difficulties legal dope dealers have with regard to banking? is the banking industry shying away from the people who are legitimately in the marijuana business? guest: that is a great question.

the short answer is yes. there are some credit unions and community banks that are serving the industry, but the federal regulations are complicated. for the most part, that is a huge issue that is mostly a cash industry, which raises a lot of public security concerns. for marijuana businesses, especially small businesses, they have a hard time setting up bank accounts. they have to deal mostly in cash. banks are losing an opportunity to access state loans. it is a huge problem. that is one of the pieces of reform in washington, d.c., that is trying to be pushed.

marijuana is in this tricky position where it is federally illegal, but it is legal in many states. what lawmakers want to do on the federal level is pass a measure that would protect banks, that they could serve the legal marijuana industry and not fear federal prosecution. host: that brings up the question of what is going on in congress when it comes to marijuana legalization and bills that promote or even detract from the marijuana industry? what is the state of marijuana legislation in congress? guest: we are kind of starting over because it is a new legislative cycle. the cannabis banking reform package has been reintroduced. i think it has one of the best shots at passing, but the senate is still kind of a high hurdle

because it would likely require 60 votes out of 100 unless they end the filibuster, and then it would only require 50 or 51. i think that is one of the bills that is most promising. i think most lawmakers would agree that more research needs to be done on medical marijuana. there is support for that. in terms of federal legalization, that is a much higher hurdle. senate majority leader chuck schumer and senators cory booker and ron white are putting together a comprehensive marijuana bill that probably would be federal legalization and removing marijuana completely from the controlled substances act, but that would face, i think, difficulty in the senate, and also president biden

has not been that enthused about marijuana. host: let's let some of our viewers take part in this conversation. let's start with jason calling from connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i am in support of this. i think it is great. i am in the military. i think it should be legal. i know canada has it legal for military members. i think it would help with ptsd. i think would be great if it was legal federally. jeff, you are doing god's work. happy 4/20. guest: thank you. i think there also is legislative activity to carve out exceptions for military because i think people recognize that is an important issue even in states -- i think for a

military to be able to get medical marijuana from the veterans hospital, i think lawmakers recognize that for ptsd and so forth that that would be an important reform. host: what is the tension right now between the states who have made marijuana use legal and for federal officials who work in those states where the federal government still considers marijuana use illegal? is there a tension between the federal laws and the state rules in those states, especially for people who work for the federal government in those states? guest: yes, i think so. i think like you said, for federal government workers particularly. also the enforcement. with president obama, there was

a policy for the justice department not to spend resources cracking down on state legal marijuana programs, but then trump put in a couple of attorney generals that ultimately were pretty hands-off. there was concern that they would have some enforcement activity. with president biden, they feel more comfortable there will not be federal interference. you have an industry that is legal. medical marijuana is legal in 38 states plus washington, d.c. marijuana is considered a legal drug in terms of federal law. there is a lot of tension. host: that brings up the story in the daily beast about what is

going on in the biden white house. "dozens of young white house staffers have been suspended or asked to resign due to past marijuana use, frustrating staffers who were pleased by initial indications by the biden administration that recreational past use of marijuana would not be immediately disqualified. the paula fight -- the policy has impacted staffers in states where marijuana use is legal. staffers were put on probation or canned because they revealed past marijuana use on a document." it appears the biden is taking a hard line on marijuana use for white house staffers.

guest: i think it is fair to say the industry is very disappointed in that pit i think there is a perception, a feeling that president biden is out of touch with how the public views marijuana. the public sentiment for legalization is very strong. roughly two thirds of americans believe adult use marijuana should be legalized. i think that was very disturbing to a lot of people. vice president harris will have an influence. she was a strong advocate for marijuana reform when she was in the senate. maybe she can have an influence over time with the administration, but that was definitely a disappointing development. host: let's go back to our phone

lines. let's talk to james calling from north carolina peered good morning. caller: good morning to you. marijuana has changed. 30 years ago, it was a fairly weak drug. now they tell me the thc levels are 30 times stronger. i wonder how that has changed things. is it now and addictive drug? does the smoke from the marijuana cause lung cancer? just speak on those topics. guest: i think the research does not show it to be addictive, but one of the things we need is more research. it is definitely true that it is more potent than the stuff 30 or 40 years ago. that gives ammunition to

opponents saying that it causes brain damage with youth, so they fight marijuana legalization based on that, and there is a trend nationally where a number of state legislatures want to limit the thc potency. i think there is just kind of this ongoing issue we are going to have until we have more research. there are still opponents that say it is a gateway drug. i don't think the research shows that, but definitely more research is needed on marijuana. you had a second part to your question, which was really good, but i cannot remember what it was. host: let's go ahead and go to winnifred calling from wyoming. good morning. caller: good morning. i don't think that marijuana

should be legalized even for recreational use. i think that medically they have other things that have the same effect as marijuana had. they don't have to legalize a drug such as marijuana in order to help the people needing medical attention. i think it is kind of a gateway drug that if they use that they use harder drugs sometimes. i think they ought to leave it alone. i don't like what is happening on the southern border with just

letting everybody in like that. host: go ahead and respond, jeff. guest: again, i don't think research shows at all that it is a gateway drug. in fact, i think it would be less of an issue than alcohol. i know that the views expressed are common views that are expressed. i think that is why we need more research in education. medical marijuana has benefited a lot of people who have had problems like chronic pain, ptsd, severe epilepsy, cancer, terminal illness, anxiety. there is quite a bit of evidence that it is helpful in those situations. host: let's talk to celeste

calling from pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i am very much for it. i am a polio survivor. i have a medical marijuana card. i am so glad that at my age as 65, it has finally come around to be legal for people like me. i see a big difference. i think it is wonderful. i hope they keep it up and bring the prices down because they are astronomical. i am happy with the situation. i would rather take something natural than something made in the lab. guest: that is interesting. chronic pain, by the way, we find when we study the data from medical marijuana states that usually chronic pain is the number one condition for medical marijuana patients.

host: she brought up pricing structures. are the pricing structures different in different states that have legalized marijuana, or is there a common price in the states where marijuana is being sold legally? guest: pricing is all over the place. it depends on how the market is structured and if there is enough cultivators to meet the demand. in new york and new jersey, there has not been a robust medical marijuana market. the regulations have been very heavy. the prices i understand are quite high. there is not enough supply out there. that is a big issue.

medical marijuana can be quite expensive depending on the state. i think it is expensive, and yet our industry has been around for years, and we have a lot of players and growers and processors. host: for those of us who don't know, what is the pricing structure in colorado and other states? explain to us how it is sold for those who do not know. guest: it depends on the product. typically, it would be per milligram pricing. if you are buying flour, it is going to be in eighth of an ounce. edibles are expensive.

it is pretty much all over the place depending on the state. certain states, like oklahoma, which is really left wide open, so there is tremendous competition, and the prices are quite good. you find people who go to oklahoma to buy because of better prices. with federal legalization, that would begin to be less true. if there was federal legalization, you will begin to see more common prices across-the-board. host: what would someone consider expensive versus reasonably priced versus cheap

in these pricing structures? guest: i think that is a good question. it's hard for me to tell you that. you can easily spend 100 bucks for a week or two week supply for medical marijuana. that makes things -- it can be expensive, especially for people who are on lower incomes. host: let's go back to our phone lines. let's go to jack calling from massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to make a couple of points about this medical marijuana. it is fine with me, but from the standpoint of recreational marijuana, try finding a town

that once a recreational marijuana store in their town. talk about the real estate values and how they go down if they have a medical or even recreational marijuana store in their town. it is a bunch of nimby's in every town, and i am one of them. i don't want them in my town or neighborhood. your neighborhood turns out to be nothing but a thorough fair for transient people who have no respect for the town they are buying their marijuana in. that is one reason i am against it. host: response to the not in my back yard comment. guest: i guess there is strong feeling about that. new york will be interesting because localities have the option to opt out. what we find is a lot of municipalities will initially opt out of recreational marijuana because they do not want it in their backyard, but

then they will see a neighboring municipality raising all this revenue from recreational marijuana, and then they will observe things are not that bad. there are not these security concerns. it does not damage a town. they will say we want to opt into that. that is more of the trends we see. there is that initial feeling of not in my back yard. i think municipalities are careful in the way they zone. they are trying to zone it in such a way that it will not bring down real estate values across a municipality. one thing that would help is cannabis banking reform. if marijuana companies have

access to bank accounts rather than dealing with cash, that would help the security issue. host: we have one of our social media followers has put up a photo of one of their batches, says an example from california, $40. our viewers are putting up some of the prices they are seeing out there. guest: that is great. they should maybe say what quantity. host: exactly. let's go to anthony, calling from houma, louisiana. caller: good morning. glad you all will have me this money. i am sitting here drinking strong coffee, and i am not fishing. i have been smoking marijuana for 45 years, and it has not led

to me being hooked on any stronger drugs. the price range back in 1976 was like seven grams for maybe $40. now you have different strains. my son is moving to colorado. i've got an uncle moved to colorado. i've got a first cousin moved to colorado. they are all growing to sell. it is going to be a business that is going to pick up. i have had pain. i did not have pain when i was younger. i was just trying to get along with the rest of the kids that was smoking. since i got shoved through the window of a truck at 60 miles an hour, every day is pain. the stronger strain is coming from the growers. some of them are making their own strain. that is why it is so expensive.

back in the day, they had that old brown mexican that came across the border with that. that has got to stimulate the economy. host: go ahead and respond, jeff. guest: there is one anecdote showing that it is not a gateway. there are a number of strains out there. a lot of innovation in the industry. it will be interesting to see when it does become federally legalized what brands become dominant brands. one concern is that over time there is going to be a consolidation. there will be a lot of large operators. there will be craft producers making their own strains and

what we see with microbreweries. host: i want to bring up a story i saw walt reading -- while reading marijuana business daily. this story says more women are buying cannabis. i want you to talk about that. women make up a minority of adult use purchasers. 36% in february. that has increased almost a full percentage point from 2020. this is self-reported from participants and customer loyalty programs. who are we seeing that is buying marijuana? about one third of consumers are women. who are we seeing in these groups? guest: that is a great story. i actually have to say i don't know the full details of that story.

in general, we are seeing it runs the gamut. women are a larger group now. certainly people in their 20's, but also people with chronic pain in their 50's and 60's, so i think that is one reason why public support is so strong for legalizing marijuana is that there is a whole range of ages that are buyers. i know someone who is 75 years old, and when he had a chronic pain issue, i never thought he would be one to go out and go to a medical marijuana store and buy marijuana. he did. i think it sort of runs -- i think it is a broad section of the american public. host: do we know of any

marijuana policy that will be put out by the biden administration during its term? do we know any push for or against that will be coming from the executive branch? guest: i think from the justice department we might see a policy we saw during president obama's administration where the policy is to be hands-off of state marijuana businesses, not spent any justice department resources to try to crack down on state legal businesses. we might see that. otherwise, i think it is going to be more reactive. if congress passes the measure, he will decide whether or not to sign it. cannabis banking reform, i think, as a pretty good shot. i would expect him to sign it. it is not good to be a policy he is going to be independently

pushing. host: let's talk to anna calling from new castle, delaware. good morning. caller: i am calling to oppose because for years they tried to stop people from smoking cigarettes because it is bad for their health, and yet a bunch of people in washington want to pass a law for them to legalize marijuana. i don't think it is good for you. my kids when they were coming up, they were told by their teachers, it is bad for your body and mind. if these people are so sick in their minds that they have to turn to marijuana to raise money, there is something wrong with them. there is other ways of raising money than legalizing marijuana. host: go ahead and respond, jeff. guest: i think that is definitely a view we hear in

public hearings when i listen in. that is definitely one view. i think the other view is that why isn't it legal like alcohol? the negative impacts are probably less than alcohol. why isn't it legal? it helps people in terms of chronic pain and other medical conditions. host: a lot of people on our social media channels want you to do a comparison between marijuana smoking and tobacco smoking and why shouldn't all of the rules and warnings that go for cigarettes not apply for marijuana cigarettes? like smoke being bad for your lungs, etc. guest: that is a good question. i think there are a lot. when states pass marijuana laws,

there is a tremendous amount of stuff they have to do on the packaging in terms of warnings. that is an interesting point in terms of correlation between tobacco and marijuana. i think we are just going to have to see how the research involves on marijuana -- evolves on marijuana. in all states, lawmakers have been cognizant to make sure there is cautionary stuff on the packaging. also, they are sensitive and making sure things are childproof and that packaging is not attractive to children. host: let's go to scott, who is calling from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. let's get some facts out there. we are selling it by the 1/8 in

these stores, which is equivalent to 3.5 grams of cannabis. high is high. marijuana is a little bit more potent today, but you get as high. 40 years ago, you had redbud, brown bud, lion, all kinds of good marijuana that gets you just as high as the pot today. when i was a kid, we were paying $20 an ounce, which it goes anywhere from $250 to $500 on the street today. that is quite the markup because we have the war on drugs. now we have opiate and all these other drug problems because we were fighting cannabis when we should have been fighting the other stuff. get off the opiate addiction,

cannabis is great. we should be running our cars off of hemp seed oil. god created cannabis. cannabis is a wonderful plant. we should be using it. host: go ahead and respond, jeff. guest: i think he raised a lot of good points. in terms of hemp, it is federally legal. it has been for a couple of years now. i think we will increasingly see more hemp in products and cbd in various products as well. i think he raises some great points about the war on drugs. a lot of the reform efforts are really recognizing that communities and individuals and minorities were disproportionately affected by the war on drugs. it was ridiculous.

we are trying to make reparations in that area. host: was there any money in the american rescue plan passed by congress for marijuana related firms? guest: no, not really. there are ways for marijuana firms to get payroll tax credits through the plan, and there are ways for ancillary firms, like firms that service the industry. some of them qualify for these low interest loans and grants to help small businesses, but for the most part marijuana was left out because it is considered federally legal. very disappointing that it was left out. host: let's talk to tony, who is calling from bridgeton, missouri. tony, good morning. caller: good morning, yes.

as far as comparing it to tobacco, you can grow your own tobacco, but very few people do because they can purchase it. the price of tobacco is similar to the price of marijuana. they are about the same when you go by the weight of it. the problem is the government has got their sticky hands. they want the greek. it is all about greed on the hands of government. you should be able to grow your own. you cannot sell it. bro all you want of your own. if you are going to sell it, you have to get a license and regulate. host: do you agree, jeff? guest: um, i think there are some good points there. host: we would like to thank jeff smith, who is the legal and

regulatory reporter for marijuana business daily for being with us this morning and talking us through marijuana legalization in the united states. thank you for your time this morning. guest: thank you, jesse. host: coming up next, we will go back to our phone lines and talk to you about your job situation. you see the numbers on screen. we are waiting to hear from you. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 as top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight, a beginners guide to america for the immigrant and the curious. the journalist reflects on her experience as a refugee from iran. sunday on in-depth, a two hour conversation with science writer

harriet washington. join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweets. at 9:00 eastern, on afterwards, dana perino talks about her book everything will be ok, life lessons for young women. she is interviewed by victoria clark. watchful tv this weekend on c-span2. -- watchful tv -- watch book tv this weekend on c-span2. a compact spiral-bound book with contact information for every member of congress, including bios and committee assignments. order your copy at c-span

shop.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back. we want to talk to you this morning about the current child support and what your job situation is right now. we had the new jobs report come out friday. "u.s. hiring surged in march. the start of what economists say could be a sustained run of job growth. u.s. employers added a seasonally adjusted 916,000 jobs in march, the best gain since august. the unemployment rate, determined by a separate survey, fell to 6%, a pandemic low.

as of march, there were 8.4 million jobs than february 2020, before the pandemic hit. after the jobs report came out, president biden came out and lauded the jobs figures and cited part of the reason his recent covid-19 stimulus law." [video clip] >> this morning, we learned our economy created 900,000 jobs in march. the first two months of our administration has seen more jobs created than the first two months of any administration in history. we have a long way to go to get our economy back on track after the worst economic and jobs prices in nearly a century. -- crisis in nearly a century. help is here. opportunity is coming. at long last there is hope. credit for this progress belongs

not to me but to the american people, hard-working men and women who have struggled through this pandemic, never given up, and they are determined to get this country back on track. i think it is the reflection of two things we are doing here. new economic strategy we have lots, one focused on building from the bottom up and middle out and one that puts government on the side of working people that rewards work, not wealth. when we invest in the american people, it is not just those at the top that make our economy grow. ordinary americans. we saw the economy gain traction in march as the american rescue plan got past, bringing new hope to our country. we will continue to implement that law in the weeks ahead. host: even with the jobs numbers looking better, they pointed out

that the economy still has not completely recovered. here is part of this story from the wall street journal i want to read to you. "even with sustained hiring, the u.s. is not expected to fully recover all jobs lost during the pandemic until at least the second half of 2022. that means industries and suffering the most from the pandemic still face lengthy recoveries. those mostly dodging the downturn, better paid, more highly educated workers, are expected to return quickly to the strong economy that existed before the pandemic." that comes from the wall street journal. what is your personal job situation in 2021? let's start with cherry, who is calling from glenview, illinois. jerry, good morning. caller: good morning.

thanks for c-span. i am employed. host: go ahead. caller: go ahead. host: you go ahead. caller: i am employed. i wanted to say this. i work in a community college in illinois. just to show you what is going on in illinois, we are doing a job fair with 18 community colleges across the state of illinois. i am in a suburb of chicago. it is next friday, virtual online. we have over 230 companies of all types registered. we were hoping to get 100 companies. we are over 230, heading to 250. it shows there is a demand coming to hire people of all different backgrounds.

we are open to the community people as well. we are hoping to get a good turnout from the unemployed, underemployed world. one last thing, the center for workforce and education at georgetown university, i would recommend people take a look at that. maybe you will have the director of that program on as your guest because he is in d.c. they do great research on what is going on in the economy. i would refer people to that. host: let's talk to brett calling from des moines, iowa. how has your job situation been affected by the pandemic? what is your job situation now? caller: hi, pedro. job situation is unemployment. i work for broadway in the symphony. i don't have to look for a job. host: say that again.

you work for who? caller: well, the civic center in des moines, broadway and symphony. cannot put 2000 people together a night now with the pandemic. host: did they furlough you? are they still paying you? what is going on with your job? caller: my job is still there waiting for me. i have a wonderful boss who is asian, came out of cambodia, wonderful man. host: let's go to don calling from washington. good morning. caller: good morning, pedro. just wanted to chime in on the last one and this one and this one.

during this pandemic, i noticed a lot of different businesses were shut down. i just wanted to thank the medical and regular cannabis community near washington. i know recreational is another story. there is people out there that i know one company going all across america, and they help medical people. they help veterans. they help everything down to animals. they are back in the midwest right now. i heard you talk about oklahoma in missouri and whatnot. they are just a good family group. when people talk about these businesses, they need to consider that if you just don't

know, you should probably keep your opinion to yourself. i truly think it is going to put a lot of people in work that were not in work because it does not require a certain degree. it just requires the will and knowing that you are actually helping people. host: on wednesday, representative kevin brady, who is the top republican on the ways and means committee, talked with fox news about bidens infrastructure policies and their effects on jobs growth. [video clip] >> there is no question president biden inherited a strong economic recovery and vaccine from president trump. the two go hand in hand. there is some sugar high from the stiffness.

we have the most competitive economy on the planet heading into this and have recovered almost 60% of the jobs lost by the time president biden took office. this threatened to sabotage that economic recovery. these tax increases make america's tax rates worse than china, the same as syria and france, not the economic neighborhood you want to be in. at the end of the day, i will predict we will see a net loss of jobs and growth. we will see flatter paychecks and a second wave of businesses moving their investments, operations, manufacturing overseas, exactly what we reversed under president trump's tax cuts. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to amy, who is calling from ohio. good morning. caller: good morning. i just had a comment that i would like to make.

i am a truck driver of over 12 years driving a truck with a zero csa score, which stands for compliance, safety, and accountability. june 2015, i had a horrific accident. i have been on the news in toledo, ohio. i was shutting a trailer door when an aluminum hinge failed, and the entire semi door, weighing 177 pounds, crushed my entire body paid i have literally been in and out of the hospital. it has been a nightmare. i have talked to senator sherrod brown of ohio to get laws changed for these aluminum hinges. these hinges are not safe. they will crack on a semi truck driver. they can fall on you. i have had no money. i cannot return back to work.

literally, you can look my name up on wqol, i am trying to get the law changed. they should be made out of steel. i have had no money. my health is horrible. i have lumps on my head. i cannot even go back to work. i am in horrific pain. i have back pain. i chose to go to work instead of unemployment. prior to this, the trucking industry is a unsafe industry. i got a letter from drew martin no who represents sherrod brown. i could have been unemployed, but i wanted to go back to work, and this horrific accident happened to me at the ford louisville plant. it is a miracle that i am alive. i have constant pain.

all i can say is i am trying to change the law to make trucking a safe industry. it is not a safe industry. host: let's go to paul, who is calling from lexington, kentucky. caller: good morning. i don't follow the line here. i am actually retired and have been. i took an early retirement. i am 68. i take care of my wife. i get job offers all the time. i think that is generally because i have worked a lot of the jobs, but i have an education in several fields. i think that is what we need to concentrate on is education. that way our employment and those can elect what jobs to take. everybody struggles to have a

job that they like, but we do not always get that. i think if you really apply yourself, you can find a job. it may not be what you want to do for the rest of your life, but -- host: what industry are you in? caller: i have worked so many things. i have worked in computers. i worked for the government. i have worked in -- mostly self-employed, worked in construction. i have had my own construction companies. i have done a little bit of everything. the job offers i get come from everything, from managing stores to working in grocery market. it does not matter. there is lots of jobs. i am unemployed by choice because i am retired now.

i put in my service time. employed. employed. one is a doctor, one is a banker, one is a mechanic. i think there is work out there, but part of it is i think minimum wages need to be raised, but you have to have skills to earn money. host: let's go to kathy, calling from newport, florida. kathy, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i am employed. i work for a law firm. i have for the past number of years. i work for the same firm -- i worked for the same firm through the pandemic. i think some people do not want to go back to work because the

stimulus and the additional pay that they are getting is more than what they would have gotten if they were employed. therefore, it is -- they are making more money staying home then they would if they actually physically went to work, unfortunately, which tends to make people still want to stay at home. and like the last caller said, if they raised the unemployment -- if they raised the wage, the minimum wage, i think you would see more people going out, because they do want to make more money. they want to support their families. and some of them are supporting their families better being unemployed rather than working. one of my bosses is a big supporter of moving the minimum wage up. host: let's go to pair he -- perry, calling from oak ridge, north carolina. good morning.

caller: good morning. i am employed. i just wanted to say that i -- that there are a lot of job opportunities in the health care industry. i agree with kathy somewhat. i think the stimulus and the additional payment that people are receiving is keeping people from going back to work, because, in the health care industry, we have lots of jobs available. that's all i wanted to say. thank you. have a great day. host: testifying before the senate wednesday, federal reserve chair jerome powell spoke about the unemployment trends in the u.s. here's a portion of what he said. [video clip] >> conditions in the labor market have improved as with overall economic activity. jobs rose in february as the leisure and hospitality sector recoups about two thirds of the jobs they lost in december and

january. the recovery has progressed more quickly than expected and is strengthening. this is due in part to the unprecedented fiscal and monetary policy actions i mentioned, which provide essential support to households and communities. the sectors of the economy most adversely affected by resurgence of the virus remain weak. the unemployment rate is still elevated at 6.2%. it underestimates the shortfall, particularly as labor force participation remains notably below pre-pandemic levels. we welcome this progress, but we will not lose sight of the millions who are still hurting, including lower wage workers, african-americans, hispanics, and other minority groups who have been especially hard-hit. the fed's response has been guided by our mandate to promote maximum employment and price stability to the american people along with our responsibility to promote the stability of the

financial system. we took broad and forceful actions, deploying both conventional and emergency lending tools to more directly support credit. our actions helped unlock more than $2 trillion in funding to support businesses, nonprofits, and governments between april and december. this support has helped organizations from shuttering and has put employers in a better position to keep workers on and hire them back. host: let's talk to judith, calling from illinois. good morning. caller: hi. good morning. a lot has changed around here since brian lamb was actually on-air. a moment ago, you just played an excerpt of kevin brady, a republican politician and infamous liar. fact-checks reveal the extent of

his falsehoods are staggering. let's go back to the recession with president -- recession when president obama was coming into office. when three fourths of this country were on the precipice of losing their jobs, stock markets tanked. i myself by at&t stock for one dollar. one dollar. general motors was probably $.50. etc. these are facts. that was a recession. obama turned the economy around. when trim came in -- when trump came in, then you can say the economy was on the uptick. when biden came in, we had stagnated do -- due to what we did not know at the time is

going to be 500,000 people dead and jobs shuttered. to play kevin brady if excerpts -- brady excerpts and not have a producer come back to back with true experts, you are fueling disinformation. c-span is to be fact-based. period. i do not ever want to see one point of view, because if not, you are fox news or msnbc. host: let's go to sherry from new york. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. i just wanted to bring attention to viewers that most of the jobs that are talked about being unemployed in the hospitality and restaurants and such, i am in a different group.

i am an older white person, professional. i have been working for many years in a managerial level. i was laid off due to the coronavirus. downsized. my company later got the ppp loan, so brought us back for a couple of months. then i was terminated. i have been looking for work for probably a year. dr. frank: -- for probably a year and have told i have been overqualified for so many jobs. i have been looking for jobs not even at the pay level i have had, half my pay level, different industries, and so i just wanted to bring attention to the fact that it is not like we are not looking for work. it is not like we are making a killing on unemployment and all. we are paying our health. we are trying to stay paying our bills and all, so there are a

lot of people that are out of work who have qualifications and training and still are not able to get any work, so please, you know, just let people know that. thank you. host: goldman sachs is actually predicting a jobs boom coming up in the u.s. according to a story in cnbc. i want to read a couple paragraphs. "unemployment could fall to close where it was prior to the pandemic according to a goldman sachs forecast that sees a hiring boom ahead. the firm projects and unemployment rate of 4.1%. that could be even lower depending on how -- on just how powerful the recovery gets amid more stimulus and work for sectors hit hardest.

moreover, the forecast sees the economy returning to its pre-pandemic payroll level well ahead of the end of 2022, a view that treasury secretary janet yellen backed up monday in an interview with msnbc." we want to know what your job situation is now in 2021. let's talk to james calling from kentucky. james, good morning. caller: yes. good morning. i would just like to say that unemployment back in the day was what it was, but you did not receive the kind of money you are now. and i kind of wish i was laid off, to be honest with you. i am making $11 an hour 40 hours a week. unemployment is way more than what i am making doing 40 hours a week, so, you know, i just think it is wrong for them to

give that kind of money for unemployment. host: at a wednesday hearing, treasury secretary janet yellen spoke about how women in the labor market have been impacted by the pandemic. here's a portion of what she said. [video clip] >> i think that women have contributed enormously in the united states and in countries around the world. their labor force participation has boosted growth and has boosted household incomes and we saw a surge in women's labor force participation in the 1970's and 1980's, but it has leveled off and even declined somewhat. and there are a number of reasons for it, but when you look at the fact that, in many european countries and other developed countries, labor force

participation of women is now higher than it is in the united states, what stands out is paid leave and affordable childcare as two things that distinguish the u.s. from those countries. they are really critical to enabling women to successfully participate and i think it is exciting that the american rescue plan really addresses these issues, providing additional very meaningful support on both fronts. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to alan, who is calling from utah. alan, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. i watch a lot of c-span. it is just a good station for, you know, equal points of view. i am one of the unemployed.

i actually resigned from a job i had back in the middle of 2019 and, of course, six months after that, we had the pandemic start. here in utah, we are going to be releasing the mask mandate on april 10 and so i am looking forward to going out and finding some more unemployment. i do believe that the minimum wage should be $15 an hour as well. i am going to be 60 here in a couple weeks and so i am just looking for new opportunities and, i guess along with millions of other people. so anyway, thank you for c-span at have a happy easter.

host: let's talk to charlie, calling from holland, texas. charlie, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you. i am employed. i am blessed to be employed. i heard some of the other callers talking about the unemployment and the money they are making. it exceeds what they would make if they were not employed, but what bothers me is, though i am blessed to be employed, i know a lot of people who are not and they do not have c-span. they cannot afford cable right now. they have lost their house. they are struggling now. so, while so many speak on it, there are so many that are not getting unemployment enough to make a living wage and they are suffering. that is what i needed to say. host: let's go to mike, calling from hyattsville, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i was just calling to say if you

look at the fraud rate and abuse in our government and society, it is terrible. we are spending billions of dollars for corporations and, yes, i am unemployed currently because i reported fraud, waste and abuse a couple times in washington, d.c. and i do not like the current situation that we are in because it seems like people want to cull the herd, as it were. people, not like you, because you are from c-span, and you are a good person who works for a good organization, but other people in the world do not care about people. it is sad. i do not know what to do other than to open up the coffers and maybe help people out instead of hurting them. $1400 is great. whatever. actually, how long can you live

on $1400 if you are unemployed? you cannot. it does not take long to go through that money. not useful. host: let's go to don old, who is calling from raleigh, north carolina. good morning. caller: i just wanted to say i think it is unfortunate the young man tried to attack the capitol yesterday and i think he got what people would get when you do something like that, should get when you do something like that. i was sorry for the less of life -- the loss-of-life to the officer and the injury to the other. there was a guy who called in earlier trying to equivocate, comparing it to the january 6 insurrection. there's nothing -- nothing -- compared to that. i mean -- host: donald, we are talking

about the job situation right now. what is your job situation? caller: fully employed. host: have you ever -- have you been able to stay fully employed in the pandemic? caller: yes. host: let's go to cedric, calling from cordova, tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. hey. i am employed and have been fully employed basically before the pandemic. let me tell you how things work out. i left a good job. i work in the hotel industry. i have been for a while. i retired, started my own business selling to hotels. when the pandemic it, it just obliterated -- when the pandemic hit, it just obliterated my income, so i had to find another job during the pandemic. last year, i had three different jobs. it is just a matter of people going out and looking for a

position and taking what they can find. they can build on top of that. once they build on top of it, i promise you things work out. by the grace of god, things worked out for me. i am employed now. i have a great position that i am about to start in two weeks. so it is good. host: can i assume you work for hotels perhaps in germantown? caller: i worked for a corporate office for about 18 years. i retired that to sell my own products to hotels. host: i asked because the hotel industry is one of those that was really hit by the pandemic. was it pandemic related when you had to leave the industry? caller: no i a retired. -- no i retired. it was a conflict of interest. host: all right.

i would like to thank all of our callers from calling -- for calling. coming up, this week's spotlight segment features kevin roberts about his niche in -- his recent national review online article to advocate using stimulus funds to build a wall on the southern border. stick around. we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. today at 2:00 p.m. eastern on oral histories, virginia donegan recounts her time as an army nurse during the vietnam war. sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern, milton jones recalls his experience as a marine in vietnam. sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war, the depiction of slavery in hollywood films. sunday, at 6:30 p.m. eastern,

the assassination attempt on president reagan. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, we look at the presidents first addresses to congress, ronald reagan's from 1981 and clinton's from 1983. exploring the american story. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> sunday night on q&a, a about education policy and the importance of having civil discussions when differing opinions are involved. our guest co-authored the book a search for common ground. frederick hesse and a dean of education. >> we have kids languishing who are not challenged and no one is troubled by it. that should disturb all of us.

we know that if we are going to use education to promote mobility, promote opportunity, address poverty and inequality, we are going to have to empower kids and learners. we have to make sure they get the skills and education they need so they can contribute to their families and immunities. >> pedro eloquently talked about some of the inequities in american education. given those of us who have the resources to move into communities with good schools or private schools, have strategies for making sure our kids get something. school choice is a way to empower those who do not have those resources. >> frederick hess and pedro nagera on q&a. you can also listen to q&a as a podcast. >> washington journal continues. host: back for our spotlight on magazines segment.

today, we feature kevin roberts of the texas public policy foundation, who will discuss his recent national review article, entitled want to stimulate texas? let's build more walls. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for the work you do for this country. host: appreciate it. first, tell us what the texas public policy foundation is. caller: no doubt, you and your listeners know the concept of a think tank, a public policy organization. the country has many across the spectrum. the texas public policy foundation is based in austin. we are the largest public policy group outside of washington, d.c. we have a d.c. office,. we are focused mostly on state-based work and the concept of federalism. host: the article, which was entitled want to stimulate texas?

let's build more walls. you make the argument for texas to use it stimulus funds to build the wall around the state borders with mexico. why? caller: we have two dilemmas in texas, jesse. we are a nonpartisan organization so we look at every public policy problem through the lens of objective data. the first of those two problems is that we have a border crisis. we do not engage an exaggeration or hyperbole. we are a public policy group, but the reality is that whether someone is left or right of center, if you go to the bounder -- go to the border at this moment, you see a crisis of humanitarian perspective, of policy perspective. dilemma number one. dilemma number two is congress has passed a relief package of $1.9 trillion.

most of that money that texas will receive has such strings attached to it that will make it problematic. we believe that if you take that portion of the $30 billion to build the border wall, they would spur this country to unify around immigration reform so we can have real, legal, transparent immigration. host: what type of process would texas have to go through to actually be able to use these funds for building a wall? with a have to get congress's permission -- would they have to get congress's permission? caller: that is where the rubber meets the road. $30 million, perhaps more, has been allocated to texas by congress already. what is happening now, the two steps i will outline for you and your viewers.

the first is that congress and the administrative agencies in washington are drawing out the rules by which the money can be spent by each state. i can tell you, moving to step number two, our leadership are really worried about the strings attached that money. and so i would not be surprised if, by the end of the summer, a lot of the states that are receiving these funds have decided not to accept them because congress has placed too many strings on them. the federal government is, i might say, overreaching. the exception to that is the subject of what we are talking about today. that is, the $5 billion or so that it will take to finish the border wall. to get to the heart of your question, what the legislature should do with our state leadership is to allocate those funds and go finish the wall. we built about 300 miles of wall in texas. we have 900 miles to go. we believe, as i know many do, that if we are going to protect

texans and also develop a legal transparent system for illegal immigrants to come here -- four legal -- for legal immigrants to come here. host: wouldn't texas building a wall on its own, on its borders, wouldn't that be infringing on the federal government's power over immigration? with that be an argument of federalism overstate's rights -- over states rights? guest: valid point. i would argue that the federal government is not doing its job with immigration policy. i would argue, with all due respect to the person joe biden and the office he occupies, that he has not done his job, not fulfilled the obligation. i do not mean that as a screed, but as a public-policy guy and a

historian. it pains me that is a failure -- it pains me that it is a failure of the executive branch. meaning, the state of texas, which has more border than any other state with mexico, has to step up so that we can develop a legal and transparent system for immigration. host: what type of support do you have coming from congress for this move? guest: i would start with our wonderful texas delegation. there is a bipartisan group of them, thirtysomething members in congress, as you know, jesse. they were at the border earlier this week with our staff. they certainly believe there needs to be better border security. that includes the wall and other means. a long-running conversation we have had in the country. second, if you move to leadership in the house, speaker

pelosi, the senate leadership, senator schumer, you would not be surprised to hear they would not be supportive of this move. again, respecting them as people and the offices they hold, we disagree. we believe that if you go to the border today, any of your viewers would be astonished in a negative way at the humanitarian crisis the federal government has created, i would argue intentionally. host: let's get our viewers involved. we will open up our normal lines. republicans, call in at (202) 748-8001. democrats, your line is (202) 748-8000. independents, you can call (202) 748-8002. we are going to open up a special line for texas residents. texas residents, your number will be (202) 748-8003. you can also text us at (202) 748-8003.

we are always reading on social media, on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. now, if the state of texas moves forward with building a wall, who would build it? guest: private contractors who go through a contracting process just like the federal government used for the 450 miles of all completed under the trump administration. and that's the same process we use for any vendor in the federal government. the state of texas, like every state, has a well-developed system for that. there is a bill in the state legislature by a texas house member who has included a provision in that bill that taxes private contractors -- that texas private contractors get priority for those contracts so we stimulate the economy. whether it is texas were out-of-state, this is a system that works well, not just for

walls, but for roads and highways and building construction. host: we will start with our first texas resident, thomas calling from humboldt, texas. caller: how are you doing? kev, come on. you want money from texas residents. we are still trying to fix our pipes and stuff from the last disaster. we froze to death nearly. as far as the border wall, listen, america. look up how many miles of border wall was actually built. trump put barbed wire and other stuff over existing wall, but the wall actually built was only 49 miles of new wall. that's all it is. a bunch of ranchers -- do you know where eagle pass is that?

-- is at? they are mad. federal agents running around day and night. it is a wreck. talk to the residents at the wall and asked them how they feel about it. what you can do is get the $1 million that steve bannon stole. that will pay for it. host: go ahead and respond. guest: thomas, great to talk. humboldt is a great place. the first thing i would say about your comment on the amount of border wall that's been created, we built 450 miles of wall. there are 900 miles of border remaining. we do not have to have all along the entirety of that remaining 900 miles, but what we do need to come if you talk to border patrol agents, as we do all the time, is to build a large percentage of wall along that border. the reason is that it is works.

it allows border patrol agents to focus on those segments of the border that do not have any sort of physical barrier. that's kind of a commonsense thing, but i can also tell you from the research we have done, including border patrol agents, private property owners, that the wall works. the second point you make is valid, which is that we have policy challenges in texas, including the recent electricity debacle. the state legislature is working on that. they are working on a fix. i would argue, respectfully, thomas, as a fellow texan, if there is any state that can address two challenging policy problems at once, the border crisis and electricity, it would be texas. host: you brought these numbers up a couple seconds ago and i want you to repeat it so we can be sure what we're are talking about. how much of texas border already has a wall? how much does not? guest: excellent question. 281 miles of the texas-mexico

border has a border wall now. that was completed under the trump administration. about another 900 miles or so of the texas-mexico border, perhaps half of that remainder, maybe 450 miles, we would argue needs a wall. in other words, we do not believe there needs to be a wall for the entirety of the remainder, but about half of that having a wall would aid our border security, border patrol agents, in protecting the border. host: let's talk to richard, calling from albuquerque, new mexico on the republican line. it morning. -- good morning. caller: good morning. kevin, check this out. first of all, the guy on their talking with you, jesse, you know he is a hard-core democrat. you know he does not really care about what you are saying or what conservatives are saying -- host: let's go to david, calling

from georgia on the independent line. david, good morning. caller: i am still laughing. just a second. that was so funny. good morning, jesse. how are you doing? i have been up and down through that part of texas all the way from el paso down to brownsville. it is beautiful country. we do need more wall. now, i am not going to debate that with you. there are places further west of texas where it is just an open corridor where they are smuggling through their entire kin. they need wall there, but we have other problems, which is causing us having to do this with the wall, that we can eliminate without having to build the wall. the drugs and the immigrants running across. number one, the biggest portion

of the drugs are running right past the agents, coming across the border on real cars, tanker trucks, you name it. if it can cross the border, it is flying over, it is coming in. we need to scan everything through a computer, an x-ray machine. they have them come about all of it needs to be scanned to stop this -- they have them, but all of it needs to be scanned to stop this. on the second thing with the immigration, we have allowed ourselves to be trapped by the everify system. it was set up and then they broke the system in half by giving the government the right to e-verify but private businesses to run anything. they are just abusing it left and right. if they fixed those two things, i think we could get the concentration on the border wall where we need it and fix these problems. host: go ahead respond, kevin. guest: you make some excellent points.

i will go in reverse order if you do not mind. i agree with you about e- verify. one of our priorities at the foundation is to get an expansion of e-verify at the state level. that something that every state could be doing. whether you are in texas or georgia, or wherever, you can encourage your legislature to do that. probably the more significant one when it comes to the crisis, i agree that we need better scanning, better technology. the wall is but one solution to a significant problem. let me say this, though. i want to underscore something that significant for all of you watching this, whether on the republican line or democratic line or independent line. all of us, regardless of our philosophical differences, if we went to the wall together today, to the border today, we would

realize there is a humanitarian crisis. the reason there is a humanitarian crisis is because of the failure of golden triangle countries south of the border and, secondly, because the drug cartels, getting to the heart of your point, david, are no longer making most of their money running drugs. they are making most of their money with human trafficking, especially with young people and young women and women of all ages. that is something that should discussed all of us regardless of who we voted for last november. it really is something that we need to unify on and fix. host: kevin, one of our social media followers has a question for you about land ownership on the texas border. the question is, what does this guest proposed to do about private landowners in texas who do not want a border wall on their property? guest: excellent question. fair question. i can tell you, as a conservative -- just full

disclosure, i lead a right of center organization. private property rights are near the top of my priorities. let me say to the viewer that our foundation went down to the wall a couple years ago and we asked that question. i went in with an open mind, asking private property owners, look, as much as building a wall makes sense to me and to all of us, my remaining worry is what you as private property owners believe. and to the person they said we need this wall to protect our private property, so the federal government has used eminent domain. every sovereign state has the right to eminent domain. that would be the legal process by which this is used. of course, owners are compensated at market rates for that. we understand that there is a give and take. there always is with eminent domain, but in this case, we believe it is not only a

national security risk, it is one that will allow us to address this crisis. final points, to make one last argument of why we need to do this, is that we are looking at immigration numbers of unprecedented proportions. jesse, when we probably overuse the word unprecedented, it is literally true. by the end of the summer, we will see the numbers of illegal immigrants coming into this country well over one million, well over 120,00 a month. -- 100 when he thousand and month. there is no state that can absorb that. host: is there anything stopping texas lawmakers from using texas money right now to build some sort of wall on the border? guest: procedurally, no. one thing stopping them from doing it is money itself. we are already allocating a hundred million dollars annually to border security as a state.

our governor deserves a lot of credit for operation lone star, in which he sent 1700 additional personnel, at our cost, to the border. going back to one of the first questions we got this morning about why we need to be spending money on this and is it really proper for the state government to be doing it? the federal government is failing to do it. we are already spending millions a year that we should not have to be. furthermore, as i argue in the piece, congress has allocated money to texas for infrastructure spending. let's spend it on the walls of texas taxpayers do not also have to increase what we are already spending and should not have to be spending on border security. host: back to her phone lines. let's go to bernard, calling from elk grove, california on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. ok. let's talk about humanitarian -- being human.

we have stuff -- people going around stealing stuff. texas was stolen from mexico. also, california and other border towns -- states. stealing people stuff and saying what are you doing here. you have to find a way to work with these people and with mexico and be human. we are not going to keep building a wall, taking stuff, and building walls. we took stuff from the native americans, took their land. what are these people doing here? let's do the trail of tears. let's just stop stealing people's stuff and building walls. please. thank you. guest: go ahead and respond, kevin. thank you for watching -- host: go ahead and respond, kevin. guest: bernard, thank you for watching.

i recommend to you that you read a patriot's history of the unit it states. that would correct a couple of the misunderstandings he would have. i say that with all due respect texas and california were not stolen. mexico and the u.s. were at war. one of the results of that war it was that the american military was stronger. i will also presume that because you are living in california that, even though you believe california was stolen, you are not living in mexico. there is a reason we do not want to. nothing against the people of mexico, but the mexican government has been a train wreck for a century. they gets straight to the point of what we were talking about today. what we are trying to protect by improving border security in this country is the rule of law. the reason that people south of the border want to come here is because the american protection of the rule of law, which goes back centuries, means that we

all have prosperity and opportunity and order that very few countries south of our border have. i can tell you i not only hoped but i pray that every single person in mexico and south america enjoys what we have. the only way to do that is for america to be the shining city on a hill that it has been for 300 years, even prior to the constitution. in order to do that, we have to protect our border. host: kevin, what would your response be to people who say that a wall will not work? that people will get over it, through it, around it, etc., so it is a waste of time? guest: it is a fair question. leading a policy group that, before we even say something, we research, we asked that question. i had an open mind. the reality is that the wall does two things -- actually,

three. the first is it prevents people from crossing where that wall is. a very small partition -- percentage of border patrol agents are actually able to scale the wall or get around it. it forces people to move west or east of the wall to gaps in the wall. that allows agents to focus on those gaps. as you might imagine, the apprehension rate in those segments lacking wall goes up because we can predict where those folks are going to be. the third thing it does, and this cuts to the heart of another failure of president biden, and i say that with all due respect personally into the office, is -- personally and to the office, is it is a symbol that america will not tolerate violating our rule of law, illegality of any kind. what it ought to do for policymakers on both sides in

d.c. is get us to a point where we are having an honest conversation about what we can do to have a legal, fair, transparent immigration system. this country and particularly texas have shown for centuries that diverse peoples of different backgrounds can get along. that is threatened when we allow one million, 2 million, 4 million illegal immigrants to come to this country in one year. host: let's talk to dennis, calling from wayne, new jersey on the democratic line. good morning. caller: thank you. hello? host: you are on. go ahead. caller: ok. sorry. the root of the problem that has to be addressed, and we do not hear enough from our congressmen, what is going on in south america. people are leaving to come here for those good reasons. if we do not get -- address the

root of the problem, putting up walls will never solve it. so internationally that has to be addressed. but it is going on all over the world. why were people leaving syria to go to turkey? they have a similar problem there. there is not enough talk. it is a lot of anger. we need to put up physical barriers, but if you do not get to the root -- like any problem, you have to get to the root of it. that is just what i am expressing. thank you. host: go ahead guest: and respond, kevin. -- host: go ahead and respond, kevin. guest: dennis, we agree on a lot. if i can into it from your comments they dissatisfaction -- if i can intuit from your comments dissatisfaction with congress, i agree entirely. it is in the american interest

to ensure we do everything we can to aid countries south of the border, around the world, so that they can improve, and improve in ways that honor their culture and customs, but hopefully produce, as we have enjoyed as americans, a real blessing, which is to wake up in a place where laws are protected. the problem is, when we have an open border, which basically is what the biden-harris administration is implementing, is that, yes, hundreds of thousands of people can come here, and with the best of motivations. if we were any of those immigrants at the border right now, we would tell the border patrol agents we have the best of intentions. we want to come to america. but the problem is it means that we are undermining, because the air coming illegally, the very thing that attracts them to the u.s., which is the rule of law. number one, let's make sure we have our affairs in order. namely, get a handle on this crisis.

number two, let us very quickly after doing that be involved in those countries south of the border demanding that they protect -- south of the border, demanding that they protect human rights and liberties and develop rule of law. host: let's assume that texas gets enough money to complete the wall along the borders in the place where texas wants the wall. how much money is that? how much more would -- how much would it cost to complete the wall to texas's satisfaction? guest: $500 billion is the estimate we have based on conversations we have had with leaders in texas, jessie. let me say that texas will get the money. really, the point of the piece that i wrote, just passing this along for an explanation, is that texas is getting the money. we really do not want all of the money coming to us from congress, $30 billion, most of

which with strings attached, but part of that funding that has fewer strings would be the funding dedicated to infrastructure, roads, highways, wall. this is a decision that we need to be making this year. we need to be making a not only for the people of texas and the united states, but frankly, for the people who want to come here. we want them to come legally through a process that is transparent and efficient. this country and this state have been based on immigration since our founding, and to honor that and sustain it, we have to do a better job as people and policymakers at spending money well on those things that get us there, suspending that five $2 billion seems like an easy decision to me. -- they are so spending that five $.2 billion seems like an easy decision to me. host: kathy calling from texas on the independent line. good morning. caller: hello?

host: go ahead. caller: hello? yes. i want to talk about the wall. we need the wall. i am sorry. those that come in legally, fine, wonderful, great. those who are coming across illegally should be sent back where they came from. my son's father is from nicaragua. he came here illegally. he had papers saying he was here on asylum. found out, when i brought him to renew his papers, that they were bought illegally in florida on the streets. this man also -- he was here. he had a great job. he was working. fine. host: turn your television down for us, kathy. caller: one day he put up his

middle finger and he said f the united states. i said, then go back to where you came from. i said, you have no reason to be here. millions of americans can for up our lives trying to protect your country. and just putting up your middle finger? i have a korean sister-in-law. she married my brother while he was in the service in korea. she came here. she got married in the united states, remarried. she immediately wanted to know how to become a legal citizen the right way. she spoke no english, but she went. she learned english. she learned what she needed to learn and it stood there and took the oath and became a korean american, legal citizen. host: go ahead and respond, kevin. guest: kathy, thanks for watching and for your comments.

i appreciate them. and i understand the spirit in which you are passing them along, and that is, if i might write a headline based on kathy's comments, it is that emotions are high about this issue. emotions are high because, for decades, this country, both parties being complicit in it, have failed us. this country, our policymakers have failed us because they refuse to summon the political courage to fix a problem that is obvious to any of us whether we are republicans, democrats, independents. what we are arguing at the texas public policy foundation is let's harness those high emotions, which we hear from kathy, and i understand them, kathy, and direct them to a public policy solution that fixes the problem. this is why people across the

political spectrum are so irritated with washington right now, jesse. it isn't that they want to raise pitchforks and overthrow the government. they want policymakers to grow a spine and fix the problem. my argument is that if texas is not going to fix that, who is? host: let's go to our phone lines and talk to carrie, calling from wellsville, pennsylvania on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. how are you doing? i want to say one thing. there's never going to be anything fixed because they don't want to fix it from downing d.c. -- from down in d.c. i've seen on the internet where they have the wall and people are putting ladders up the other side and dropping people down

over it now, so, you know, it is going to be may even big business. host: go ahead and respond. guest: thanks for watching and for your question -- in fact, your comment about the ladders reminds me of a tragic anecdote for a few -- from a few days ago where there was a large ladder put on one part of the wall and dropped over that wall by members of a drug cartel, perhaps ms 13. i do not know which, but a cartel doing human trafficking. small girls were injured. this probably happens multiple times a day. you can imagine it falling 15, 20 feet for someone under five feet tall could be fatal. this is precisely why i get really frustrated and you get frustrated, and i know all of you who are watching our frustrated, at the inaction and

failure by our policymakers to do what i like to say is reading reality truthfully. reading reality truthfully about the border right now is that our policies are not working. they are not working for us. they are not working for the people who want to come to this country. i believe we all agree that we want legal immigrants to this country. this is what america is about. it is certainly what texas is about. and we are not able to do that right now because our policymakers are not making courageous decisions. and so, in order to fix the problem, to get to the root of your comments in question, the wall will not work at every part of the border, but we do not even have a conversation in the biden administration or congress right now about what the other possibilities could be. basically, we are encouraging to -- we are encouraging people to come here, including illegally. there is no way, that even with all the prosperity and opportunity that exists in

texas, in spite of all the great leadership we have in texas, that this civil society, texas, will be able to sustain that. we have to fix it. host: what do you say to other people across the u.s. that this is a texas problem, not their problem? for example, one of our social media followers rate here says texas is not paying for flood levees, walls, and iowa -- in iowa, so why should i would pay for their wall/ get mexico to fund it. guest: a couple things. thanks to the person for sending a question. texans are paying for the levees in iowa, because those are federal funds. californians are paying for highways in virginia. louisianans are paying for levees in iowa too. it is the nature of federalism.

to be specific about the source of funding for this, jesse, is that this $5.2 billion is coming from the $1.9 trillion that i would argue congress has mistakenly allocated for so-called relief. if you go through that $1.9 trillion, jesse, i would argue that probably 95% of it has nothing to do with covid relief. the single best expenditure for every american is for texas to use that money to finish the wall, because if texas finishes the wall along its border with mexico, we will be going a long way to solve this crisis. it affects every american because it signals to the world that america no longer cares about order, the rule of law, that if 1700% increase in unaccompanied children sleeping on floors. if this were under the trump administration, many people,

perhaps some of your colleagues in the media, would be in an uproar. what we are saying at the public policy foundation is we ought to be and let's fix it. host: let's go to another texas resident, travis in warren, texas, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you all doing today? host: just fine. go ahead, travis. caller: ok. i have lived in texas for almost 30 years. and it is said that our united states is turning into almost a communist nation now. they talk about jobs, wanting jobs, when they shut a pipeline down to hundreds of people in canada and the united states.

they are trying to work. they took a lot of jobs from people. and then they want to -- they want to blame this republican, this democrat. what is, we have got -- what it is, we have got some people up in congress right now that have been in there over my lifetime and now all they want to do is punish everybody. host: go ahead and respond, kevin. guest: travis, thanks for watching and for your comments. i would largely agree. i think there is a deep dissatisfaction from the majority of americans on a lot of issues. i will mention one thing, jesse, that is a sort of segue from the, there, and that is -- segue from the comment there, and that is that we have been doing some

polling, and across-the-board, democrats, republican, independents, immigration has become the top issue for a number of texans and americans. that speaks to what the caller is saying, which is that there is a problem and they did -- problem and a dissatisfaction with policymakers not fixing it, and why in the world can we fix it? host: we would like to thank kevin roberts of the texas public policy foundation for being with us this morning and talking about his article, want to stimulate texas? let's build more walls. thank you for your time. guest: thank you. keep up the good work. host: i would like to thank our callers, viewers and guests for being with us for another edition of washington journal this morning. all of you have a great saturday. continue to wash her hands. for all of us who celebrate, have a happy easter.

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