rosendale joins us to discuss the biden administration and the house of freedom caucus agenda. missouri democratic representative emanuel cleaver on the infrastructure proposal. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning, it is thursday, april 22, 2021. in the wake of the conviction of derek chauvin lawmakers in both parties said yesterday the verdict could provide new momentum to policing processes in america. as they work on legislation that could pass, we are turning that over to you, our viewers. what policing reforms would you support, float -- phone lines split regionally. if you're an eastern or central united states (202) 748-8000. it if you are in the mountain or pacific regions, (202) 748-8001.

a special lien for members of law enforcement, we want to hear from you. (202) 748-8002. you can also text (202) 748-8002 3. it is facebook.com/c-span. good thursday morning to you, you could start calling in right now on the subject of police reform. senate majority leader chuck schumer's remarks as he began proceedings yesterday, this is what he had to say. >> we should not mistake a guilty verdict as evidence that the police misconduct problem has been solved. the divide between law enforcement and so many of the communities they served has been bridged, it has not. we must remain diligent in our efforts to bring meaningful change to police departments across the country.

practices and training. the legal protections that have the two greatest shields. we need to root out the racial bias in our society. the health system, jobs, economy. there's more room at the ballot box in our streets and at our schools. this goes way beyond party or political faction. racism strikes at the core of this country. justice, true justice will not, until we finally banish the ancient poison of racism from the american soul. the senate will continue to work as we strive to ensure george floyd's tragic death will not be in vain. we will not rest until the senate passes strong legislation to end these bias of law enforcement. host: chuck schumer yesterday on

capitol hill. the focus on democrats efforts in congress, the george floyd policing act. it brave its racial profiling and chokeholds, no-knock warrants. limit the transfer of military grade police departments -- military grade equipment to police departments. makes it easier to prosecute offending officers. it collects data on police misconduct and use of force. just some of what the judge floyd -- george floyd justice in policing act would do. the democrats and civil rights activist said they would push the legislation by the anniversary of george floyd's death. that would be may 25. that story also noting the chief republican negotiator on this issue, senator ted scott of south carolina.

these efforts of police reform, the focus on some of tim scott's efforts. you sponsored a policing bill that died last summer because democrats locked it, arguing it didn't go far enough. scott said that language on a compromise legislation could be, -- finalized in a week or two as he has a handful of sticking points with other lawmakers including those in the democratic party. yesterday on fox news house republican whip steve scalise talked about tim scott's efforts and also concerns about the democratic legislation that has been crafted. >> i think we know what happened last june when tim scott on the senate side tried to get a reform bill done in democrats use the filibuster to stop it. our things different now? >> good to be with you. tim scott put a lot of work into

coming up with the bill. how do you go after the culture and some of these departments we have these bad cops. yesterday a dirty cop was put in jail. that's the way justice is supposed to work. pete stauber was a good cop in minnesota, he worked with tim scott on this bill. i would like president biden to fulfill his promise of unity by working with republicans. you don't pass police reform and hyper-partisan way where you go after all cops. using the folks who want to defund police to write that bill. that undermines the work of good cops. i hope president biden would reach out to senator tim scott, who was a good cop and understands what you need to do. host: steve scalise mentioning president biden. in the wake of a derek chauvin

verdict, he's expected to continue to highlight it next week and that anticipated joint address. >> she that opportunity last night, he's thinking about what is joint session speech looks like next week, he has every intention of using that as an opportunity to elevate this issue and talk about the importance of putting police reform measures in place. >> is the president willing to compromise on the qualified immunity? >> i think the stage we are in now is that leaders on the hill need to have discussions among themselves about where they could find agreement. often those discussions, it is the case of diplomacy, the most effective strategy is to allow for space for those

conversations to happen privately. we will have to take a look at what that looks like. host: jen psaki in the white house reaping room yesterday. you heard qualified immunity brought up in the briefing room. here's the story in usa today about it. the supreme court taking a pass on cases about that issue last year. qualified immunity, the doctrine that protects police from civil liability when they do not violate clearly established law. the issue has snarled washington's effort to respond to police misconduct in recent years. we are asking you, what police reforms would you respect? (202) 748-8000 if you're in eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you are in the noun or pacific time zones.

i want to hear from law enforcement and their families as well, (202) 748-8003. joe is up from massachusetts, good morning. caller: the problem we have is the mindset of so many police today. they have to dominate any interactions with citizens. the idea that a police officer could come up to a car and scream obscenities before it is even spoken to him, that kind of interaction should not be allowed. host: how do you change that? you are saying better training or and having officers respond differently? how do you fix the problem you're talking about? caller: it is up to the so-called good cops. if a good cop stands by and

allows someone to abuse a citizen in any way shape or form , that is why the problem exists. chip away at that, that is our main problem. host: do you think people will say there was a verdict this week on a bad cop? the police reform and she was working through the justice system. caller: i would like to be optimistic, i don't think so. there's a whole subgroup of police that belong to the white power nationals movement -- nationalist movement. they specifically went to law enforcement so they could have a hold on that group. host: that is joe in massachusetts. caller: good morning, my favorite show. host: we appreciate that.

caller: my question is -- my answer to the gentleman who just called, people after abusive situations in their own right are tense. we need a mass education program to advise both sides not to escalate if the individual is being arrested, accosted, trying to talk to the officer. if both sides would not resist, it escalates to the violence. we need a mass education program on both sides to calm this situation. it would never get to any violence on either side. thank you. host: russ in california with

this text on police reform, what about society reform? if you want to see an improvement in public police relations, respect the law enforcement, that is the core problem. keith in colorado, you are next. caller: my heart hurts. i'm happy you played -- to open it. you notice they didn't mention the george floyd legislation passed in the house by the congressional black caucus. the population most impacted by the reforms. they just dismiss that out of hand. they have not even mentioned, they only referred to skip -- tim scott bill. the tim scott bill was not written by tim scott. it is written by the gop. it is written by mcconnell and others. thank you for playing that.

host: what in the tim scott bill you disagree with? caller: there's only one thing in it. there is only one thing in it. host: there's a few things in it. just a we are operating from the same space. the justice act that tim scott produced inc. number of democratic proposals including making lynching a federal hate crime, trading a policing commission to create a review of u.s. criminal justice systems, collecting data on police use of force. barring chokeholds by police officers. withholding funds to police departments that failed to report to the justice department when no-knock warrants are used. caller: that is all in the

democratic bill plus more, like qualified immunity. that is a huge sticking point, right? if they have all of that stuff in already, who is pro lynching? it is almost ridiculous. no one could vote against a lynching bill. they could vote again stuff that would make real change. i do have some very direct things here that we could do. the national registry so cops cannot move around. the gop opposes that. why doesn't the gop use this as a moment to sit down with the congressional black caucus? host: if democrats could get the things that are in the tim scott bill but qualified immunity is

the thing that won't get the vote threshold in the senate, should they go for what they can get or hold out? caller: i'm 61 years old. it was getting so much better, even during the nixon era. after robert reagan, everything got worse. everything got bad. the young people won't be patient like me. george floyd conviction, without the video, protest, keith ellison, there never would've been a prosecution and everybody knows that. host: that is keith out of denver, colorado this morning. taking your phone lines on -- phone calls online split up regionally. (202) 748-8000 if you're in the

eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 is the mountain and pacific time zones. keith mentioning body cameras in the george floyd justice in policing act. there are plenty of states that have body camera laws and laws about the use of body cameras from 34 states and the district of columbia have created laws about the use of body cameras. they are very different when it comes to different aspects including privacy concerns, the use of audio and visual. it is from the urban institute of various laws by state about where body cameras could be used . roles about the videos story. caller: good morning.

my first time calling and i made it. i actually went through. i want the viewers who are listening right now to check the police department, there states, see what percentage of lack -- lack men and women are serving as law enforcement officers. indianapolis is 25% or 30%. out of 800. host: is the point that police officers should better reflect the communities that they police? caller: they should have more

black african-americans that are wonderful men and women that could get out and help their community. not just their community but the whole thing. it has been evenly balanced. they could help the police and the police could help them. host: this is greg in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. are you an officer? caller: i'm an attorney, i do a lot of criminal defense. host: what are your thoughts about this issue of police reform? caller: what should be done is the focus of the mainstream media should be on the conduct of everybody involved. the percentage of people who are

arrested is astronomically correct. law enforcement does a very, very good job. a much better job here than in any other country in the world. the problem now is everybody is an attorney. everybody is a victim. when i talk to people about their interaction with the officer it's never that they did anything wrong despite the evidence to the contrary. if that is the initial reaction everybody has because the mainstream media has said cops are all bad. it should not surprise anybody that it gets out of hand. what is an officer to do? look at all these situations where the officer went out of his or her way for half an hour,

45 minutes. why should it take that long for an interaction? black lives matter yesterday said police should stay out of knife fights in our culture, that's how we deal with things. why is that not an issue? we've got to focus on everybody in every situation. don't demonize one side. that is what the media is doing. host: greg in mechanicsburg, having this conversation one day after the justice department said it was starting an

investigation. the first dam that a law enforcement agency since president biden took office. it constituted unconstitutional or unlawful policing. this is attorney general merrick garland speaking yesterday about the launching of this investigation. >> most of our nations law enforcement officers do their difficult jobs honorably and lawfully. i strongly believe that good officers do not want to work in systems that allow bad practices. good officers welcome accountability. accountability is an essential part of holding trust with the community and public safety requires public trust. i have been involved in the legal system in one way or another for most of my adult life. i know justice is sometimes slow

. sometimes it is elusive. sometimes it never comes. the department of justice will be unwavering in its pursuit of equal justice. the challenges we face are deeply woven into our history. they did not rise today or last year. building trust between community and law enforcement will take time, effort by all of us. we undertake this task with the termination -- with the determination knowing that change cannot wait. host: that was merrick garland yesterday. taking your phone calls on what police reforms would you support. this is bob, good morning. >> that lawyer made up a good point, the film of the officer saving the black girl from

getting knifed to death. maybe the best thing for cops to do is let them kill each other. we talk about chicago, baltimore . caller: good morning. >>host: go ahead. caller: this whole thing is a great big rain wash. they're committing so much crime in this country and if they get stopped they don't do what they are told to do. host: you are saying black people are committing so much crime, what brings you to that point of view? caller: they commit more crime than white people do. they do not do what the cops told them to do, that is where

the trouble starts. host: that was dean in reno. caller: thanks for taking my call. do some people think that some of this resistance may be because people are afraid? we watched police shoot people in the back as they are running away from them. when you stop a person of color, i'm a person of color, when they stop me i get nervous. we see what they are capable of doing to black people. when the police come up, they are scared because they don't know if they are going to get shot or not. as far as reform. one of the reforms i believe we have to do is all of these lawsuits people file when these things happen come out of taxpayer money. we need to come up with a system

where that burden is not put on us. that needs to be put on the police that are involved. they may have to take out some kind of insurance so if they get sued for something like this they need to be held responsible for it, not the taxpayers. host: one of the callers bringing up the incident in ohio, the shooting of the girl in columbus, ohio. it is getting a lot of attention this weekend. yesterday in part because of tweets by nba star lebron james. the espn article, los angeles lakers star posted and later deleted a tweet on wednesday about the fatal police shooting of a 16 euro black girl -- year old black girl. it showed a photo of officer nicholas reardon with the

accompanying caption your next, accountability along with the hourglass emoji posting that on wednesday. body camera show the officer getting out of his car where the police had been dispatched after someone had called 911 saying they had been physically threatened as the officer walked towards a group of people. she could be seen swinging a knife wildly. the officer shot several times to get down. she charges the girl who was pinned to the car from a few feet away. the officer fired four shots. lebron james' tweets he put up said this. anger does any of us any good and that includes myself. educating does. my anger still is here but what happened to that little girl, my sympathy for her family and may

justice prevail. i'm so dam tired -- damn tired of seeing black people killed by police. this isn't about one officer, it is the entire system. they always use our words to create more racism. i'm so desperate for more accountability. back to your phone calls, to new mexico, this is joan. caller: thank you for your wonderful program. my father, uncle, my first husband was a police officer. i think police officers are wonderful for the most part. i love the lapel cameras. they show exactly what is going on. i would like to see a more fair approach by the news media and if they show a black person being killed or hurt by the police, they should show five or six police officers being harmed

by criminals. they are not giving fair coverage. the police officers put their lives on the line and they do so much good. the education needs to start at home, our schools, our communities needs to start respecting law enforcement. host: patty from north carolina. caller: they talk about making laws about the police, why don't they put up a law about resisting arrest and give 10 years in jail automaticall? o host: there are not laws -- there are laws about resisting arrest on the books. caller: they are not strict enough. this is why they are getting killed. keith ellison, who is he to pass judgment? he was charged with raping two women. host: that was patty in connecticut.

caller: good morning, i think we need to recruit more young police officers. regardless of their race. they understand the culture. a lot of these officers -- could you hear me? caller: i can hear you. caller: a lot of the officers from the old school have embedded in their mind -- i hate to say racist mentality but that is the way it is. until we address that, we will have this problem. it is systemic. host: to think this is a generational thing that will fix itself? caller: i'm not saying we don't need new reforms, we need to add that along with this. this is a young country. for us to move forward we have

to take the long term. it is time for america to wake up and grow up. that's all i have to say. host: this is alexis, wilmington, north carolina. caller: thanks for having me. i need to see that immunity thing go away. it is not fair to either side, really. it gets way too omnipotence that these police just do not have. there should be a psych evaluation, especially if they are coming from the military. by the way, all that military stuff needs to be done away with. cameras mean everything. i was on the streets 30 years ago working with police side-by-side as an emt. they did the same thing then.

and i am so guilty of not speaking up. host: if you can get some of those things, but not qualified immunity, and you are a lawmaker working on legislation, do to go further cameras, the limits of transferring military equipment, if you cannot get qualified immunity to pass in the senate? caller: no, that is why derek chauvin stayed on that man's neck. the defiance -- the depravity came out. there's too many restrictions of our own moral code. he lost his. he was way gone. host: qualified immunity, just to explain it again, the doctrine that shields government

officials from being held personally liable for constitutional violations, as always they did not violate clearly established law. to explain that, to show that the courts point to an already existing decision with substantially similar facts, a similar case. and the limiting qualified immunity part of the george floyd it justice and policing act. the federal law-enforcement officers association weighing in mrg when the act was passed in the house on qualified immunity. they say it has "a high bar for officers to receive and is the only protection that law enforcement officers have a from frivolous lawsuits. the act accomplishes nothing," they said, "of what is needed." there are answers to

law-enforcement reform from the public and law enforcement, but they must be realistic and involve law enforcement input. passing legislation that is not helpful is a waste of time. that statement from the federal law enforcement officers association, the union for federal law enforcement officers, at the beginning of march. it's just after 7:30 a.m. on the east coast and we are taking your phone calls, asking which reforms you would support in law enforcement? . today, the senate this morning at 10:00 ammo continued debates on the covid-19 hate crimes act legislation. they have assigned a point person to expedite the review of covid-19 related hate crimes that target asian americans and pacific islanders. the house will start early this morning at 9:00 a.m., when we will end our program today,

debating the washington, d.c. admission act, which would make washington the 51st state. following the house session, the house will be on a two-week recess, returning on tuesday, may 11 -- on tuesday, may 11. plenty of action today on the house floor to follow all day long on c-span, and for the senate, on c-span2. are you a police officer, christian? caller: i want to mention a couple things. it's really sad to hear so many people from different parts of the u.s. coming back with this racist rhetoric. i personally have been a victim of police brutality. i'm hispanic, not black, but i have seen how police officers operate. even with cameras, i have seen how they would park vehicles

backwards so cameras would not be facing. this was when i was in college before body cameras were used. host: are you in officer yourself now? caller: i approve of the police reforms. i do not think anybody should be immune to anything. it's unfair to say only black people are people of color resist, because i have seen a lot of white fraternity kids that try to run from police, or even fight with officers at colleges, and i have never seen one of them get shot. obviously, you face your charges and deal with consequences, but the consequences in those cases that were not a bullet to the back. and i do not think that the police should be outright murdering people for a traffic violation or whatever it may be, everybody should see their day at trial. host: the line for law enforcement, 202-748-8002.

elaine in washington. caller: i used to be a liquor enforcement officer and i did not carry a gun, i just want you to know that. two points, first of all, if you look at doj's stats, percentage-wise blacks do commit a greater proportion of crime. so, as a result i think it instills fear on the part of the police, and in turn, the way the police react to black crime is at they are also fearful. and that fear raises immediately the level of belligerence between the two parties, you might say. but what i would like to see is the police get out in their own communities and have films of

people resisting arrest. i would say that 11, 12, 13-year-olds -- it's young enough where they have not established bias yet, teach the children the importance of reciprocalness on both sides. that's what i would like to see. host: robert in south carolina, good morning. caller: how are you doing? host: doing well. caller: good. i have a question. police reform is good. reform is good. it does not matter. it starts with change. host: what kind of reform? caller: reform where it is needed. do you the police is not reform.

small procedures -- defunding bullies is not reform. small person -- the police is not reform. do you know how many people get pulled over in the united states of america? it's a big number. how come all we see is minority individuals getting in trouble with police when they are pulled over? they do not comply, they do not listen to the officer. the officer wants to back on his beat. host: why do you think it is a racial thing in terms of compliance? caller: what you see on tv, how many white people are breakdancing, running, getting caught? can you answer that? host: you judge by what you see on tv? caller: it is all in our face. the media has it all over, it is everywhere. host: robert in south carolina.

this is bill in maine, good morning. caller: good morning. host: you have to turn your television down and speak through your phone. you have to also stick by your phone. roger in kansas. good morning. caller: yes, i guess i would say. host: go ahead. caller: can you hear me? host: yes. go ahead. caller: i was going to say i would support any reforms that the first subject on the reform that is addressed is i would like to have language that tells what the arrested person should be subject to, how he should react to what happens. that's what i would like to see first . host: why? caller: because that is never brought up. what is that? the last caller mentioned in the

resist arrest. what -- the officer did not have criteria, he has criteria he has to follow, but the person who is arrested should have the same criteria in that same language. i would like to see that in a reform bill. i would like to see the congress address it, please. host: that is robert in kansas. mike in baltimore, maryland. caller: good morning. i'm calling because i absolutely believe we need police reform in this country. the reason i say that is look at the george floyd incident. ultimately, the police fabricated their initial report and said this gentleman was resisting, and if the video did not surface and come out, if she had not recorded the incident, we would have never known

because the police are quick to lie. they always lie on the reports. then video evidence refutes what they say. that is insane. host: we talked about the justice department launching an investigation into the minneapolis police department. you saw that press conference yesterday after our program here. other news on capitol hill involving the justice department. the senate voted to confirm a needed group to as the third highest official at the justice department on thursday. "a partyline vote with lisa murkowski, a republican, breaking with her party to support the nominee. gupta, who was in the obama administration, will become the first woman of color to serve as associate attorney general. republicans are concerned about -- calling her a liberal activist who will damage the

relationship with local police departments." this from her nomination hearing last month, an exchange between gupta and ted cruz. [video clip] >> you said, i do not support defunding the police, the right answer when you are seeking to get confirmed. i would note last year in written correspondence with the senate of the united states, you encouraged congress "to re-examine priorities and shrink the footprint of the legal system in this country." you also encouraged "some people call it defunding the police, other people call it divest invest, but whatever you call it if you care about mass incarceration you have to care about skewed funding priorities." these were not college writings, this was eight months ago that you wrote this.

by any measure that is advocating d funding the police, yet today you are saying you do not support that? >> respectfully, i disagree with how you are characterizing that. i do not support defunding the police, i've been very clear on that. if i may -- >> were the quotes in accurate? >> can i tell you, those statements reflect conversations i've had with sheriff's around the country, police chiefs, civil rights activists who have been talking to me for years, long before the events of this summer, about the fact that we have placed so many of our social problems at the feet of police. and we have defunded mental health services, we have expected law enforcement to be the only go to solution. we have given communities only one response available for when

we have family members in crisis or with drug convictions, and this is an issue where it's one that i think really unifies law enforcement and civil rights advocates and community leaders who are seeking alternatives for addressing these challenging questions. sheriffs who are fed up with the fact that the jails are filled with people who are suffering from mental illness. >> i do not believe you have been speaking with sheriffs who are advocating for defunding the police. thank you. host: ted cruz last month with vanita gupta, now the associate attorney general in the justice department. we are asking you what police reforms you would support this morning. joseph in florida on the line for law enforcement. are you a cop? caller: i have a brother that is retired and three nephews who

are in high-level positions in the police force. number one, recruitment. number two, police unions. recruitment should be some kind of universal, national standards. in other words, my understanding is there are 18,000 different police units around the country. they have to have standards for recruitment, including psychological screening. two, you -- host: you are talking about one national standard? caller: i believe that would be the best route to take. and i think that police unions have to stop protecting bad cops. some police unions have contracts wherein a police can do a misbehavior and after six months or a year, it is erased from their record so if they go to another police department they have no knowledge this person has had this kind of

history. i think that those two things could help. host: david in north carolina, saying huge step would be to get rid of police unions. that is from a text message. this from greg, "one, police officers should be required to do nonviolence intervention training and all high school students in america should have a policing class as a requirement to graduate." patrick, "the department of justice must investigate all police departments when they kill all unarmed people. this does not happen in all countries." and from members of congress, just in the past 24 hours since the derek chauvin verdict was announced, from hakeem jeffries, "as we march forward toward a more perfect union, it is time

for the senate to pass the george floyd justice in policing act." karen bass saying, "a reminder that police officers are in favor of police reform." republican members, congressman stevie, "under the police reform plan we would have no protection for american citizens." and one more phone congressman kevin brady, the republican from texas saying, "justice for george floyd was served yesterday, now it is time to do better, congress must pass the justice act." that is the one sponsored by senator tim scott. "real police reform focuses on training accountability and transparency, and actually addresses misconduct." some of the conversations yesterday on twitter from capitol hill.

in this first hour, this is maria -- muriel in florida. caller: i like with the lady said from washington, it's true, when a person is stopped by a cop they fear the person that they have to stop. and then the person fears the cop. but what i do not understand, because i am sure in black areas if they see a black cop they would not fear it that much, so i think that blacks should be put in black areas because they know their ways and they know how to cope with the people in black areas. host: you say it is a recruitment issue and that they should make departments look like the places that they police? caller: right, because the black cops understand their ways and

how to cope with children in their area. host: this is lori in georgia, good morning. caller: thank you. if you would give me a minute. first of all, i am a supporter of the police. we do need them. but we need them with good values, good mindsets. and eye and pray for them to have safety on the job. but -- and i pray for them to have safety on the job. but some talked about the money issue with the lawsuits. it does not always need to fall on the taxpayers, like it does, and if the police departments were held financially more responsible for the actions of their employees, then it would make it a little harder for -- host: the departments are funded by taxpayers, are you talking about the qualified immunity issue for allowing officers to be held personally liable, to

make it easier for them to be sued in civil court? caller: i think so. that way it would not be so easy if they messed up to move on to another one, it would make it harder for them when they do background checks, thinking, this is not the type of employee we want. i believe there is an autonomy think that is a problem with their society today and it falls in the black communities. and so, you know, i think that it is a big picture of things at that we need to do to fix a lot of the problems we have. because it boils down to the reaction of human beings. when people get pulled over or called on by the police, they need to respect the fact that they have to comply to the rules and regulations. but it is not just a black thing.

so, the fact that they say that, that is not accurate. the thing is there is a lot of fear and, you know, it is one thing for there to be fear based actions and reactions happening as opposed to plain out resistance. host: reggie in twinsburg, ohio on the line for law enforcement. are you a police officer? caller: yes. host: what do you think would help? caller: i have a lot to say, but i have to keep it short. i'm a trainer. training is very, very important. especially defensive tactics training. we have gotten away from hands-on in a lot of departments. and we need to bring that back, because there's officers getting hurt during training, things

like that, but what would you rather have? a guy tweak an ankle versus him shooting an individual he doesn't have to shoot. i'm african-american and i tell young kids, not young kids, but african-american kids, the teenagers, things like that, my friends who are african-american, you do not have to fear racist cops. yo have tou -- you have to fear a scared cop, a cop not comfortable with his abilities or her abilities. the young lady that shot daunte wright, what type of training did she do? she was a trainer, what type of training does the department do? do they do under stress training?

host: do you think that derek chauvin was a scared cop in that incident? caller: i do not think he was scared. i think it was his ego. police, we are worst enemies. ego, he was the senior man on the scene. the other three guys, eh, he must know what he is doing. not that you must know what he is doing, but more fear the repercussions if they tell him to get off that individual, or pull him off, there will be repercussions at the police department. host: can we train our way out of this? does getting rid of qualified immunity or mandating every law enforcement officer to have to have a body camera, would that help? caller: it's been proven that an officer is going to be an officer, that body cameras have not really changed the way

officers do things. i do things different than another officer. once again, i am an hands-on guy. i'm a dt trainer. host: what does that mean? caller: defensive tactics. i'm a hands on guy, i am not scared to go hands on with an individual. i'm comfortable because of my background. host: on the defensive tactics, there has been called to not have it be a police officer who responds immediately if there is a mental health situation involves, why does it have to be a cop to go to that situation when it can be somebody who is not a law enforcement officer, who is better trained to respond to those situations -- what would you say to that? caller: you ask a mental health expert who is not in a position

where the environment is not controlled, there's chaos going on, and they are not armed with anything, whether it is something lethal or less lethal, and they have to deal with somebody who is not listening to a family member. they are probably not going to listen to the social worker. hey, are you -- our presence is supposed to be one of the first things available to us is compliance. when police arrived, all better calm down. you do not always get it. so you have to think of another way to deal with things. i know that we have to get off the phone and everything, but also i tried to encourage young black minorities to get involved in law enforcement. we just -- we've been hiring

because we have had a log of retirements. we've been hiring a lot of people. we just did a physical agility test, you know how many blacks were there? two out of 50 something people. two black people, who are currently officers in other cities, who were trying to get a job in my city. host: reggie, we are running out of time, but before you go, as a trainer in ohio, obviously the investigations are still happening in that case with a 16-year-old girl, the knife and the shooting -- what do you make of that case from a police trainer's perspective? caller: it will be an unpopular opinion, but it is -- it's unfortunate.

it's a -- it's what we consider a good shoot. host: what does that mean? caller: protecting another individual. time is our friend. but in that situation, he was too far away to physically grab or do anything to the young lady before he, or before she can stab the girl or tried to stab the girl. if someone is attacking you, it is my job to protect you from the aggressor. that's my job. it's unfortunate that the young lady, even though she called the police, most people when they call, they come to us for help. she did not do that. and the body camera shows it. but once again, it will be an unpopular opinion, people may

come at me because of what i am saying to you, but the camera is not lying. host: reggie in ohio, how long have you been a police trainer? caller: in the department for 23 years, at least 18 years of that. host: thanks for the call. a couple minutes left in this segment, as we take your calls asking you what police reforms you would support. we should note that it's earth day 2021 and there is plenty going on when it comes to that issue, including climate change activist greta thunberg on capitol hill before the house oversight and reform subcommittee on the environment. you can watch that testimony live on c-span3, listen to it on the free radio app. that will happen at 10:00 a.m. eastern.

we will go to the house at 9:00 a.m. eastern, when this program ends, then 10:00 a.m. if you want to watch her testimony. president biden is expected to announce the u.s. is going to try to cut greenhouse gas emissions in half by 2030. that announcement is expected ahead of a high-stakes virtual climate summit that will be going on today and tomorrow. 40 world leaders are expected to attend that summit, including president xi jinping of china, vladimir putin. the story noting that biden will kickoff the initial session today, and there will be appearances from the secretary of state, special envoy john kerry, pope francis as well, who has spoken out on climate change. he's scheduled to be a speaker today. that will be happening at the other end of pennsylvania

avenue. dwight in fairfield, california. blake, good morning. caller: how are you? host: doing all right. caller: looking dapper as ever, young man. i'm listening. host: i'm listening to you. what do you think? caller: there's a lot to unpack on police reform because it's criminal justice reform. the police are the boots on the ground. they are the ones -- police forces are 90% to 95% white. blacks, if you listen to reg gie, he said only two african-americans came to the training or whatever, these young kids are not going into the beehive. the blacks on the police force

do not really like being there because of what is going on. there is a lot of nepotism. i have heard people say my father was a cop, now i am a cop, so it is generation after generation that are police people. the interaction, i'm listening to my fellow citizens in washington saying, the doj says blacks commit more crime. a lot of crime in the white communities are not even reported. the interaction with police from a black man at 68, i've been through all that crap, and i do not say a word to the cops because i know how they are going to come at me. if my white brothers and sisters would listen to what we are saying, you have a different perspective. so you cannot sit there and tell us it is our actions that precipitates it where the police do, it is not, it is as being

who we are. your interaction with the police, the police live in your community, they do not live in our community and your perception of black people, you may work with a black guy, but want to walk away from it that is all the interaction you will have. reforming the police, john, it will never happen because it is systematic. reggie, hang in there, because when police had issued that young lady in ohio, i am with you because she was about to stab that other young lady. in my eyes, that was justifiable. host: that was our last caller in our first segment. we have another hour to go and next, we will be joined by congressman matt rosendale of montana, a member of the natural resources committee. later we will be joined by the democratic congressman emanuel cleaver of missouri, chair of

the subcommittee that oversees housing programs. stick around. we'll be right back. ♪ announcer: here is a look at coverage today on c-span. the house will consider a bill that would make washington, d.c. the 51st state. the senate will be back at 10:00 a.m. on c-span2 to work on legislation that would address the rise in hate crimes against asian americans. at 10:00 a.m. on c-span3, a subcommittee looks at the fossil fuel industry and its impact on climate change with environmental activist greta thunberg and others. there's also more streaming on our website, including a hearing with the leaders of u.s. central command and u.s. africa command on the president's defense budget request. that's at 9:30 a.m. and a hearing on the joint strike fighter program.

and at 10:00 a.m., a senate subcommittee hears from law enforcement officials and criminal justice reform activists about ways to improve policing in the u.s. american history tv on c-span3, exploring people and events that tell the american story. people visit washington for the annual blooming of the cherry blossoms on american artifacts. we will look at the history of the cherry tree and an area that once served as a swimming hole and of the scene of a political scandal. on sunday, a behind the scenes tour of the harry s truman presidential library and museum in missouri. hear about new exhibits telling the life story of the 33rd president. explore the american story, watch american history tv on sunday on c-span3. announcer: "washington journal"

continues. host: matt rosendale was elected to congress in november. congressman, what did you do before coming to washington and why did you want this job? caller: i started my career in real estate, quite frankly, then i moved to montana 20 years ago and i spent eight years on my ranch chasing cows around. then the community recruited me to run for public office and i worked my way from the legislature into a statewide elected position, a was working for the state for the last four years. now i am serving as the only rep from montana to the united states congress. host: representing a state of one million people. come december of next year, what do you need to have accomplished to consider your first term a successful term? caller: i try to focus my

attention on what we are going to address, so we took the two committees and said those will be our silos on natural resources, which montana has a wealth of, and veterans affairs, which 10% of my population is either veterans or active military. then i said we will have two more silos for other areas, number one being immigration. we could tell months ago that the issue was going to be really, really front-page. interview are going to try -- and we are going to try to address issues we are going to be challenged with. and we decided the last silo would be health care. i has but the last four years on the delivery of health care and where it works with insurance, and i have been able to obtain a lot of success by working for health care for the people across the state, expanding

access, guaranteeing coverage for pre-existing conditions. so between those four silos, we have been developing legislation to make sure we can help those items at the federal level. host: how long do you expect to be in congress? caller: the people of montana believe in term limits, they voted for them probably back in the early 1990's. the u.s. supreme court overturned that and said no, that is our area. the u.s. constitution controls that. but they do have term limits in and i think that you should serve for a reasonable amount of time, then go back and take up your tools and go to work in your home district. i think that is what the people expect. we have not set an exact time yet, but i have been supportive of term limits and i do not plan to make a career of being here in washington. host: we have been talking about police reform, an issue gaining momentum on capitol hill in the

wake of the derek chauvin verdict. what reforms would you support? caller: i believe we have to make proper investments -- guest: i believe we have to make sure law enforcement has the training they need. that's where we should be focusing our attention, not defunding the police or eliminating the strengths of the force that we have out there, strength in the number of people who are participating in law enforcement. right now, we are going into a dangerous time when by talking about stripping away immunities and taking away funding for the police departments, that put a lot of communities at risk. so i think we need to focus our attention on providing the proper training for a law enforcement, the support that they need, and that is how we will end up with a better force. host: what was your view of the chauvin trial verdict, was justice served? guest: any time allow due process in our justice system, so they can go through the

process, that is what our people expect and want. so you are able to have charges filed, you are able to hear testimony from both sides, the prosecution and defense, and then you are able to have the verdict delivered by a jury of your peers. that's what our nation is founded upon, so i believe that justice has been served. and if people think justice was not served, there is an appeal process that allows them to be changed. host: congressman matt rosendale with us until the bottom of the hour, he represents the entire state of montana in the u.s. house republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. we have heard a lot about the southern border lately, but montana makes up a big part of the northern border, so what has the northern border been like

during covid and the lockdowns with international travel restrictions? guest: i appreciate that question. i went to the southern border to see what was taking place there, but i have also visited the northern border and we have over 500 miles of border that we share with canada. and i was very concerned that we were going to start having the illegal immigrants transferred up to the northern border for processing purposes, which would then be released into the communities there, who unfortunately cannot support the medical and educational and housing needs of these people. it would be absolutely wrong to dump literally these people into these communities that cannot afford it, but what we have seen is the problem with the economy and how it has been impacted.

and the canadian government has limited travel to very essential, and it has hurt those towns and communities at the northern border. border crossings have decreased by 50%, the residential crossings, up to 70% at the largest crossing in montana and idaho. those economies are taking a big hit. we have seen families on both sides of the border that have had marriages, funerals, and they are not able to celebrate with their families back and forth. so is having a big negative impact it we are looking forward to having it open, especially when we look at the southern border and we see the administration has open it wide, saying everybody can come in whether they have a criminal record or whether they have been tested for covid. host: the population of montana

is just over one million. on a day that the house will be voting on legislation that would make the district of columbia the 51st state, i would note the population of the area is a 700,000 and 68 square miles. do you think that they should have two senators and a voting representative in the house? guest: i think this is another ploy to bypass the constitution by the democrats. it's clear in the constitution, in the 23rd amendment, that the states, the seat of the capital will not be a separate state. and in order to properly do this, if they really wanted to properly do this, then they should propose to amanda the constitution. there's a process that would allow them to do so. so if they really want to make another state out of washington, d.c. and change the seat of the

nation's capital, then go through the proper procedure. host: marie in greenville, mississippi on the line for democrats. caller: i wanted to ask the representative, based on the fact he is part of the veteran affairs, on the subject of going back to the previous segment about police reform and everything that happened with the george floyd trial. i have a friend whose son did a tour in afghanistan, and he had a conversation with a white guy from the states, and they asked how long he had been in the military. he said, i never would've signed up for the military, i'm only here because i was looking at present time and the judge gave me the option of going to the military or going to present. i want to know is that offered to all young men, especially black young men, or are they only sent to present? -- to prison?

you have a military full of young men who should have gone to jail, and they are in the military, so when they come out a lot of them go to the police departments. they go into the military as criminals, into the police department as criminals, and we wonder why they do what they do on the streets. so i wanted you to clarify that for me. guest: so, not sure exactly about the question, but what i will tell you is criminal justice reform is critically important and we cannot continue to just load our prisons with individuals that have nonviolent crimes. i believe in treatment court. i believe when people have had charges of crimes at are nonviolent, drug related, that we should go through and try to address the problem and not the byproduct of the problem, a crime. but any alternatives that we can

try to work on that seem to be forgotten, that is what we should be doing. i do not believe in warehousing people in prisons, that's not a good solution. host: ohio, andrew, good morning. caller: good morning. i want to talk about the issue of climate change. republicans need to push back on this global warming foolishness. 80% of energy still comes from fossil fuels. obviously, we still have the world's largest coal reserves, so we could still use these. the federal government owns 20% of all land in the u.s., which i think is very oppressive. i want your opinion on the democrats, they are fabricating being part of science, and exaggerating the data to hijack the energy sector with his green deal nonsense. and i want his opinion on solar

energy failures that the taxpayers had to pay for. the republicans, we can win these arguments against global warming and i want his opinion on that. guest: so, i think that the federal government coming out with a new green deal and investing trillions of dollars into different business sectors is a huge mistake. the private sector has already demonstrated over the last decade that they have the ability to make wise investments and to innovate and develop products that not only consume less energy, but emit less carbon. they've been doing a great job in that. and by making investments into select industries is not wise, it throws out the balance of the free market and that is not how we are going to get the best research and best products brought forward. i also believe we cannot be

shutting down businesses and industries across this nation and that -- on the chance at that possibly we could change the temperature of the climate, when other nations around the world are not doing the exact same thing. one day one -- on day one, when biden rescinded the permit for the keystone pipeline, by doing that we will not change the climate, but we did change the financial climate of a lot of people in our nation. 10,000 jobs were eliminated a win permit was revoked. and -- when that permit was revoked. and that energy will still be produced, it just won't be done in the u.s., and i think that is wrong. we solve -- saw problems with being completely dependent on renewable energy this winter when temperatures plummeted and

texas had their problems, and the power grid all of the way to canada was nearly shut down. we had rolling blackouts when that took place, and when you start having rolling blackouts and it is 20 degrees below zero, that is life-threatening. host: how much of the pipeline was supposed to go through montana? guest: 600 to 800 miles was going to come through montana, and through some of the poorest counties in the state and they lost about $80 million a year of tax revenue going through counties that could lose anywhere from $2.5 million to $5 million a year in tax revenue. that would fund schools, medical facilities there, take care of roads. it was a really big hit. 200 jobs lost on day one. host: craig, you are next.

caller: yes, sir. what are they going to do with all that pipe that they lead down -- laid down? i would like to know what they are going to do with all the pipes that they laid down, are they just going to leave everything there? guest: great question. i went to a pumping facility. along the pipeline, there has to be different pumping stations to move the product. in montana, i went to who a $500 million pumping facility that was being mothballed. so, they are going to stabilize the ground and it will be in place for a while. and we are hoping to get the permit renewed, so that we can continue construction. it's not over yet, if you will, so we have great hopes that we

can finally get that permit put back in place. host: an independent on the line in florida. caller: good morning. praise be for c-span. congressman, i want to say that in congress, please be acquainted with bruce westerfield. i used to be a republican for 50 years. now i am a green party person. look up the bipartisan effort and join the bruce westerfield, the congressman from arkansas, he has a forestry coalition. we need to plant more trees in america. be friends with him. the green party -- host: bruce has come on the program several times and he has taken calls from viewers as well. go ahead and ask your question. caller: in the wall street journal, karl rove, he can make

many newer look like flowers, and he is offering a police state to america for the republicans to offer a root -- a police state for law and order. and the democrats are just whipped pollyannas. what do you think about a police state in america? guest: we have a free society and we need to make sure that we keep it that way. i believe in the constitution. the declaration of independence, the founders laid our grievances with the crown and that is why we left. our job is to make sure we protect your rights. i will give the ranking member is shout out, i have served with him on the natural resources committee and it is an honor to work with them. host: kathleen in mississippi, democrat. good morning. caller: good morning. i think it is sad. we have been out here i do not know how long, working on farms

for white people and they get paid, we get nothing. we pay all of the bills. it's sad, we still only get medicaid and medicare. food stamps -- with the trump administration. i have to pay $1400 before i get in knee surgery. i'm sitting at home ever since january 2020. it's sad that trump kept everything for himself. host: what is your question? caller: this is what happens. in mississippi, it is a police state now, it came out two or three weeks ago. host: anything to pick up on there? guest: i heard medicare, medicaid. and then i heard a truck going by two weeks, but i am not sure

what the question was. host: an independent in buffalo, new york. caller: i wanted to ask the representative about his thoughts on clean energy. i find renewables -- that they are just as viable as oil, if not more in some sectors. what happened in texas had nothing to do with just renewable energy. it's texas, they are fueled by oil and gas, how can you suggest that renewable energy was the cause for the outages? they had enough warning. they did not do what they needed to do with the windmills, that's why they froze over. i do not think that you are being very, um, very true about what is going on in those areas. guest: i went and i met with the

co-op, the electric co-op, the day we were having the rolling blackouts. they expressed to me that they had a lost about 60% to 70% of the electric production capacity from wind farms throughout the midwest, that was because of the temperatures plummeting. i literally drove through a windfarm a day before in north dakota and there was not a single turbine turning. when the temperatures go that low, they cannot turn, and as you go further south, the turbines -- it was not quite as cold, but the blades were covered in ice. the turbines cannot turn with ice on their covering, so they had lost production there. that's exactly why they had to do the rolling blackouts, to keep the grid from completely

collapsing. they were consuming 52,000 megawatts worth of electricity and only producing about 48,000. so you have a problem there. it was a direct result of the wind production that had fallen off. host: one viewer wants to know your thoughts on nuclear fusion energy, "saying there's no mention of nuclear fusion energy in the infrastructure plan, the energy of the future." guest: i believe in utilizing all the energy resources available to us. this is why i continue to say that we need -- we cannot have the federal government selecting the winners and losers, and making substantial investments in one sector as opposed to another, because it does not allow innovation and technology to advance the way it should. i think that nuclear energy is a very clean, effective and efficient form of energy and we

should be using that. we should be using solar and wind. all of these resources are available to us, so let's allow the marketplaces to develop and innovate and produce the best product possible. host: duane in michigan, good morning. caller: good morning. sir, you are a liar, as most republicans are. host: can we not start off by calling somebody a liar? do you have a question? caller: the keystone pipeline did not do away with 10,000 jobs. the texas thing you are talking about, that is a lie. you are saying nuclear power is clean energy? what do they do with all of the fuel rods, they just vanish into the air? you are a liar and a criminal. host: we got your point. do you want to respond?

guest: there is nothing to respond to. everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but the facts are what the facts are. 10,000 jobs were lost when the pipeline permit was pulled, rescinded, nd 200 jobs -- and 200 jobs were lost immediately in montana. millions of tax revenue is lost in the state of montana. those are facts. host: jack in illinois, good morning. caller: hello, thank you for taking my call. i appreciate c-span. my question or comment is more politics in general right now. i get the feeling that there is tribalism by both parties. there may be cooperation between the parties, but we do not really hear about it because, you know, obviously the news needs conflict to make the news.

so, i didn't know from your opinion, is there a lot more cooperation going on behind the scenes that helps the country, or is it as maybe tribalism is quite prevalent and is putting a damper on getting things done at the moment? guest: i really appreciate that call. i will not pollyanna anyone listening to the program this morning. i will name names. speaker pelosi has made it difficult for the parties to work together. we were sworn in on january 3, and on january 4 she passed a list of rules to completely silence the minority. we are in the minority, i understand that coming elections have results. we have to be able to work with the tools available to us, to make sure that our voices are heard. but she has made every attempt to suppress that voice.

i will tell you that the bright side of that, the veterans affairs committee i am serving on, i believe that that will be the most bipartisan committee that is functioning in congress right now. and we are working together to make sure that we can address the issues that help our veterans across the nation. so that is a spot that i am very optimistic about in finding common ground and making progress. host: you talk about january 3 and 4, what would january 6 like? guest: it was a disappointing day. we started off the day as we always do, then as the day moved on we were removed from house chambers. by 9:00 p.m. that evening, we were back on the floor conducting our affairs, and i think that is the most important thing to take away from that day. the government did not get shut down. we had a recess, if you will,

but we came back and we concluded our work. when i left the capitol at 3:00 a.m. the following morning, i walked home and at the streets were quiet. i felt very safe. our government will sustain all of this. host: dave -- dave, go ahead. independent. caller: good morning. i would like to see considered. i think every police officer should have hardware like a business. and every person in the community should be able to request a card. if you cannot, don't have a, it should be up to the township in the county. host: what do you make of that suggestion? guest: to request security? host: essentially a business

card a citizen should be able to request from police officers. guest: that is a fine idea. anytime you take law enforcement and they become more integrated into the community, that is an absolutely good thing. we used to see more of that. that disability -- we used to see more of that. that disability is a good thing. we used to see that on the streets of washington when the increased police visibility. the more the community gets to interact with law enforcement, the better off we are. that could be part of that training done that i'm talking about. host: since you represent the entire state of montana in the house, it is known as the treasure state and big sky country, is one more correct? guest: is one more correct? host: do you prefer one over the other? guest: i prefer big sky country. my ranch is from one side of the state and you can see forever. i climbed up on a hill one

night, watching a thunderstorm, many, many miles away. i was watching the lightning flashed down against the ground, and you could see the rain falling. it was so far away that you cannot even hear the claps of thunder. that is a big sky. host: matt rosendale represents montana in the house, republican , on the national resources veterans affairs committee. come back again. guest: thank you, john. host: after the break, we will be joined by congress emanuel -- congressman emanuel cleaver. stick around. we will be right back. >> booktv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend, sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on "afterwards," in his book "children under fire, and american crisis," the author looks at the effects of gun violence on children in america.

he is interviewed by an epidemiology professor sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, former speaker of the house john boehner talks about his book "on the house: a washington memoir," which recounts his career in the house of representatives on the future of the republican party. sunday at 10:50 eastern, an investigative journalist on her book "high conflict: why do you trapped and how we get out," which looks at how people can engage in healthy conflict resolutions. watch booktv on c-span2. ♪

>> "washington journal" continues. host: congressman emanuel cleaver joins us now, the day after this headline in "the kansas city star," this verdict is a step, chauvin case stirs strong emotions." this is how that story by brian larry and the kansas city star began, it said black lawmakers huddled together tuesday around a television as they awaited the jury's decision in the murder trial of the police officer who knelt on the neck of george floyd. missouri congressman emanuel cleaver stood on a chair so he could see over his colleagues and descended into years when the verdict of former minneapolis police officer derek chauvin was announced guilty on all accounts. the story goes on to say, cleaver, a methodist minister,

led the congressional black caucus in prayer, thanking god that justice had been done. we showed the scenes from one of the tweets about it. do you remember what you said in that prayer? guest: not really. i could probably come close to uttering it again, but it was a spontaneous prayer. of course, my words are praying to god, so it just means other people have a chance to listen in. i do think god -- i did thank god in the way in which the decision was reached, and i also thanked him for the fact that we could take a breath for a man who died shouting that he could not breathe. i also wanted to let god hear us , thank him for the atmospheric

condition that allowed the jury to make that decision. that has not always been here. even now, it is something that we cannot expect on some regular basis, but make no mistake, what happened earlier this week was the jury and their efforts are significant. it will hopefully make things, forced things to be under change. host: explain those atmospheric conditions a bit more. is there something that you as a lawmaker can do to keep that around? guest: yes. there is something that i can do, and i would like to believe even my republican colleagues would admit it, and that is realize this nation is on the verge of being pointed to, 90%

of your viewers this morning [indiscernible] which is always what happens when civilizations and empires collapse. nobody seems to recognize it. we are torn apart. i think that the young lady who took a photograph, the fun video -- cellphone video, did something unintentionally that later hit the hearts and minds of all kinds of americans. who said, i am not some liberal and embrace these liberal rights things, but something is happening with people. pat robertson, who had no history of being some social gospel preacher, it was very clear, he said something is wrong. he said something ought to be done. he said on his show.

i think the atmosphere, what changed from it from the way it has been, and most of the trials of police in the past. frankly, the atmosphere that allowed minneapolis to bring charges. it is not charges abroad. i think the video, as most americans know, the police already put out a report of what happens, and it was not true. it was completely untrue. they talked about george floyd suffering some kind of malady or injury, or he had some kind of physical problem that was a part of his life before, and it was

like the police rescued him and took him to the hospital. minneapolis is a place where racial tensions have been a bit higher than most places around the country. i just think that was the right place, the right time, and history showed things like that happen all the time and it begins to make things change. when john lewis was beaten on the bridge out of downtown selma , people said this has gone too far -- i am not talking about people with liberal views or race. i think people all over the country. there only beating these people because they are marching to vote -- they are only beating these people because they're marching to vote. i mean, this was one of those monumental moments. this is one of those pivotal points that i think has changed things. whether or not we are going to

go the next 20 years, turning five years -- 25 years [indiscernible] host: with atmospheric change, that was at least present here -- guest: we have come a long way. the justice of policing past. it is monumental. it would be right below civil rights bills before the voting rights act. it was something significant, but let's not take it to the

point where we give off the impression that everything has been resolved and that things are going to be great because we still have a struggle to get this approved in the senate. the good news is a friend of mine was handling the legislation in the senate -- host: cory booker? guest: we have two now, cory of new jersey, and i think in the california assembly, there is an incredible field as it relates to negotiation, and both are saying that they believe we can come up with a compromise that i think is definitely needed.

i traveled around the world, mainly in europe, as you continue to prevent another war -- as we continue to prevent another war, and one of the things -- i don't know if america realizes it -- we have developed a horrible reputation internationally, where people are already questioning democracy. of course, they believe the united states on issues of race is maybe behind nations that are not as industrialized and financially stalled as we are in the united states. we have a lot to say to ourselves, which is we are trying to get this legislation through. i think we will inadvertently make a statement to the international community. i think that is needed.

host: congressman emanuel cleaver with us until the top of the hour until the house gavels in at 9:00 a.m. eastern. phone lines, (202)-748-8001 for republicans. (202)-748-8000 for democrats. independents, (202)-748-8002. we begin east of kansas city in oak grove, independent mike on the line for you. go ahead. caller: good morning. representative cleaver, i want to know why the black people have such a problem obeying the police command. i think that is where the problem is. they seem to have disrespect for the police. host: i will let you respond, congressman. guest: you know, i am sure -- that is in my district, oak grove. i'm sure the gentleman means well, but he just painted a

picture of african-americans that is probably not healthy for any of us. he is -- first of all, i cannot speak for all black people, but he is saying why are black people not obeying orders from the police? i would like for him to not hate me, but understand that what he said was one of the problems we have and that is making judgments about a race based on an individual. most african-americans i know tell their children, and i went through it as a child myself, and i have three boys, i do not know an african-american who has not said to their children,

especially male african-americans, a kid, you know, the police stop you, put your hands on the dashboard. you say, yes, sir, no, sir. if they ask for your wallet, say, please, understand, i am going to reach my back pocket unless you would like to get it. that is what it is like teaching your kids the lord's prayer. most african-americans, the majority, are not telling their kids to disobey police and that kind of thing. if you look at what happens with torch floyd -- george floyd, there were people standing on the sidewalk obeying the police who were told not to get off of the sidewalk, and they did not, even though they were in agony watching a man die. we cannot continue to spread things that are not true and then sprinted across the

spectrum of a race -- spread it across the spectrum of a race. why are black people this way? i am not sure how many african-americans the gentleman knows, but the chances are not many. everybody i know has told her kids that, -- told their kids that, kids white, black, blue, oak grove, new york city, we are human beings, and human beings do dumb things. people sometimes do dumb things. we ought to be careful about making corrections. i appreciate the gentleman giving me a chance to say something. host: fort worth, texas. j.c., democrat. good morning. caller: good morning three how

yuri -- can morning. how are you doing? guest: good morning. caller: the police know when they stop us, we are going to be fearful of them. guest: yes, sir? caller: they know we are going to be fearful of them. they are so disrespectful. hey, look here, when they stop you, they don't even tell you what they are stopping you for. they should tell you directly. all they want is your drivers license and registration. another thing, my main complaint, why aren't the blacks patrolling their own neighborhoods? why are 100 policemen, whites, going to our neighborhoods and being fearful of us? with their guns drawn. host: congressman? guest: i think that we have a problem in recruiting people of color to the police department.

for eight years, i had police security, actually, longer than that, about 10 years. they were white police officers who requested an opportunity to serve on my security detail. i think there are some police officers who grow up and they have never had any exposure to people of color until they get on the police department. some of them are awkwardly doing their jobs and creating problems. they are a minority. i think the overwhelming majority of police officers are trying to do the right thing, and our police, in the past to stop people, we just had an incident in the united states

army, he was not told why they stopped him. actually, you know, they treated him pretty roughly. now, that police department is being sued. in kansas city, we have some demonstrations -- we had demonstrations the summer before last after the george floyd murder. i had young white kids coming up to me talking about [indiscernible] we had a rally at one of our more famous areas in kansas city and we identified 6000 kids and i spoke to the crowd. it almost brought tears to my eyes because the largest number of participants were white. after, i walked over to the police officers who i know, and they said to me, look, i hope people understand that the majority of us want that cops

out of here. they are dangerous -- one bad cops out of here. they are dangerous to all of us and damage our image. nobody has [indiscernible] there are some bad cops, and what you are talking about are the ones many departments would like to expunge from their employment list. host: 10 minutes before the house gavels in for the day.i wanted to get your work on the financial services committee. you serve on the panel on housing and community development. you recently met with president biden. what did you two discuss on the housing issue in this country and where it fits into his infrastructure package? guest: i was blessed to finally get the resolution i wanted when

i was elected in congress, and that was to chair the housing and insurance committee, the hud subcommittee, and i was invited to the white house with the mayor of fort worth, and at the same time i was mayor of kansas city. we both were there. and the former governor. so we talked about issues of importance. my issue was housing. we have an extremely low number of affordable housing units in the united states of america. since the 2008 economic collapse, high-end housing has come back and is there. it is the low, moderate income housing that we have not been able to redevelop. in the package that we are now

considering is a $213 billion category to preserve and retrofit about 2 million affordable housing units. also, we are trying to read ability more than -- rehabilitate more than 500,000 homes from low and middle income homebuyers. if you are living in certain parts of the city and your housing, the rehabilitation cost of a house is more than the house can be sold for that community, you have a problem. you put $100,000 into a home, but if you put it on the market, you could get $85,000 for it. if we are going to have affordable housing in the urban core, we have to come up with ways to subsidize the housing. in this bill, we will have money for homebuilders that they can use, and these cities can use

the money, and homebuilders can get grants from the city, and they can do rehab. in some cases, new housing. it is a crisis that we can fix if our ambition is large enough and wide enough. i am excited. i also will do this quickly, the new definition of infrastructure. at first we called it infrastructure building and out is jobs building. it is not just curbs, sidewalks and bridges. it is the whole thing. i did not live in a house of

public housing or water -- host: i think we have a picture of where you were referencing where you grew up. i wanted to show that to viewers so you have the image as you talk to this. guest: that will give people an idea. half is still standing. i lived in that house seven years. my family worked two jobs in public housing to send my mother to college, and i played football, so i went to college for free, until i got injured. look, housing, my dad cleaned up his yard at his house he is 97 years old. someone threw a cigarette butt down, and my biggest concern is if my father would get in a fight. and that is what we have got to create, more homeownership. host: a few minutes left.

i would like to get a call or two more in. this is rodney in albuquerque, independent. caller: good morning. i have a little complaint. i am a minority hispanic person. i guess it gives me angry -- it gets me angry with this whole thing with the police officer. i know he is guilty for what he did and has to pay, but everyone was saying this is a racist thing. i don't believe the police officer woke up and said i'm going to kill a black man. i really don't believe that. i believe you got caught up in this whole thing -- i believe he got caught up in this whole thing and did what he did. i still say he is guilty for what he did, but why is everything always racism? why do biden and kamala say that we are a racist country? i do not think we are. there will also be racism, but i believe strongly we are not a racist country and we live in the greatest country in the world. host: congressman? guest: we live in the greatest

country in the world. it is also known that the officer convicted has 27 other complaints, most of the people dealt with in minneapolis were of color. the judge allowed that to be brought up in the trial. keep in mind, that was one of the reasons for defense lawyer did not allow him to testify because if he had taken the stand, the prosecutors would have gone through his long history of misconduct or alleged misconduct and probably will be taken up -- and probably should have been taken out of the department much sooner. i think the minneapolis police department has already had to pay. he was still allowed to stay there. in terms of race, look, i think it would be foolish for us to

deny that because to do so means we are not going to correct it. i'm an african-american, i am proud of being african-american, and i'm proud to be an american. we are a lot better than we used to be, and we are getting better every day. this next generation is not going to tolerate some of the things their parents and grandparents are trying to push on them. that is just the way it is happening. i am as excited as i have ever been with this country's next-generation, pushing issues of race into the background, but to deny that we have race problems is actually a statement that we are going to allowed to continue. once we recognize it, we can push it out of the way and our nation will become what god intended. we have been blessed more than any other nation on the history of the planet we ought to act like it. host: as we wait for the house to gavel in, news from the labor department, their weekly jobless claims report, 547,000 americans

filed new unemployment claims last week, marking a fresh pandemic era low as yahoo! finance describes it. your reaction, congressman? guest: look, we can continue to talk the number of unemployed or people who go to state agencies for unemployment and if it's and trying to get jobs -- and unemployment benefits and trying to get jobs. by the way, we know the number because those are the people who go out looking for jobs. they are going to get jobs and that is how we know the number. the unemployment bureaus around the country. i am excited to think our economy is on the way back. economists are saying, at least many and most of them are saying that if we can pass this american rescue plan of 2021, it could move our economy to greater heights. we are in a good spot now, and

if we continue to grow the economy and stop fighting each other, there is no telling how close we can come. host: how long do you think until a number still above half a million in a week during the pandemic? guest: you know, we are doing some things right now. once this rescue plan is approved, the skies the limit in terms of unemployment dropping. i think we may even get down to record lows because a lot of the people in the country, and the majority, republicans, democrats, las vegas ra iders, but everybody supports this. we have a chance, i think, to make this nation into a country were a few want a job, it is

there. we are not there yet. we are moving there. i am looking forward to the report that comes out next. i am excited, as i hope all americans are, that we are moving in the right direction. host: congressman emanuel cleaver, the crack of missouri, chairman of the financial services housing -- democrat of zurich, chairman of the financial services housing. we always appreciate your time when you stop by "washington journal." that will do it for "washington journal" this morning. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00 a.m. eastern, 4:00 a.m. pacific. in the meantime, the house about to gaveling for the day. we will take you live to the house floor for gavel-to-gavel coverage.

the speaker: the house will be in order. the prayer will be offered by our chaplain, chaplain kibben. chaplain kibben: would you pray with me. the earth is the lord and fullness there of. the world and all who live therein. holy god you founded it on the seas and established it on the waters. creator of the earth and skies to whom all truth and power belong, we ascend our prayers to you. we are humbled to stand in your presence. redeem us that we would be given clean hands and