>> a special representative for afghanistan reconciliation and a former u.s. ambassador to the u.n. testifies this afternoon before the senate foreign relations committee. that begins today at 2:30 p.m. eastern time on c-span. he is the u.s. programs director of research at the migration policy institute. he is here to talk about refugee policy. what is the official policy of letting refugees into the u.s. right now? guest: officially, the policy is if someone has been persecuted against or fears persecution due to race, nationality, religion, membership in certain social group, they can be admitted as a

refugee. host: let's take a look at the trump administration's policy. 15,000 cap in this fiscal year 2021. the biden administration plans to raise the cap 262.5 in fy 2021. -- cap to 62.5 in fy 2021. caller: we had an announcement early that they would raise it to 62.5. then we had an announcement in the middle of the month that it would remain at 15,000. right now, we are waiting to find out what it actually will be. host: i want to show our viewers and have you react to jen psaki last week on the challenges with raising the cap. >> we have every intention of putting out an increased cap and we hope to do that soon in advance of may 15. i will not get into private

conversations between the president and members of his national security team, what i will say one of the teams that has been on his mind that was covered in a number of those stories are the challenges and the challenges to our resources. one of those is refugee processing in a big global system. there have muscles that have atrophied over the last few years. his concern was is the system prepared? by setting a larger cap, we are sending a message, get your muscles back in action so we can welcome a refugees and continue to strive toward the goal he has always maintained of 125,000 refugees for next year. our policy has not changed. it is a matter of what we think we can get to the share. host: randy capps what is she referring to when she says muscles are atrophied?

guest: they have people they send out to screen refugees. they work with the international organizations to find refugees in camps and other places around the world, find out if they meet the legal definition of a refugee and to help conduct security screenings for them. a lot of those officers were recalled during the trump administration. many of them have been deployed to the border to screen asylum cases. in general, that system for screening refugees overseas really did atrophy over the last few years. host: according to your group, u.s. asylum and refugee laws state the following -- resettled refugees and those granted asylum are eligible to apply for a green card after one year. refugee status is provided to people who are vetted abroad and approved for resettlement. they must demonstrate persecution or credible fear of persecution.

what is the demand to come to the u.s. for refugees, and where across the globe? guest: the refugee crisis is worldwide. we have over 70 million refugees , the most since world war ii. the demand is unlimited. you have countries like venezuela, democratic republic of congo, syria, and iraq, afghanistan, a big refugee can't -- crisis in myanmar. a lot of different hotspots in the world that are generating historically large numbers of refugees. host: what do they have to demonstrate -- due to demonstrate persecution or credible fear of persecution? guest: they would have to document -- through their stories and what could be

confirmed with conditions in certain countries that they are fleeing -- for instance, the violence in syria, government sponsored violence. the democratic republic of kong a. clearly, it is easy to -- the democratic republic of congo. they would have to demonstrate that persecution exists and they were subject to it or it was likely to affect them if they had to stay in their countries. host: how long does the process take? on average, for someone to claim asylum and get to the u.s.? guest: it can take one year to two years. it is not just proving that they have a fear of persecution. it is also passing multiple security tests that the u.s. has administered since the 9/11

attacks in 2001. we have beefed up the security of all the different agencies. it is a multi agency process. it is very cumbersome and takes a lot of time. host: once they are in the united states, how often are they checking in with authorities? guest: once they are inside the u.s., there is very intensive management during the first few weeks. they are resettled by voluntary agency. they are nonprofits that have some government funding that provide the basic systems for the next -- first few weeks or months. then they have case managers at the office of refugee resettlement. they can provide services of up to five years. they have to check in with u.s. immigration services when they

are eligible for a green card. host: we showed the numbers comparing the numbers comparing the trump administration with the biden administration. what was the impact of the policy? guest: at the end of the obama administration, they admitted about 85,000 refugees. they planned on a cap of 115,000. the trump administration, one of the first things they did was to ban admission from certain muslim countries. many of those were refugee sending countries. somalia, yemen were outright banned. they set the cap lower and lower until it reached 15,000 last year. most years, they did not feel that cap. at the same time, when fewer

refugees were being resettled, it left those agencies because they are funded based on the number of refugees they resettle . that part of the system atrophied. the u.s. citizenship and immigration services withdrew their refugee screening officers and redeployed many of them on asylum cases at the border. finally, the u.s. department of state, which arranges the travel and provides the initial settlement assistance. the state department lost 15 or 20% of its total staff. host: is that money being restored under the biden administration? guest: the appropriations are still there. they're working on rehiring.

they are working on redeploying. the biden administration has suggested they want to fund the office of refugee resettlement with $4 million. host: we are talking with randy capps about refugee policy in the country. we want to get your questions and thoughts on it. if you are a republican, (202) 748-8000. democrat, (202) 748-8001. if you are a refugee in the u.s., we want to hear your story. (202) 748-8003.

gettysburg, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: hello. my question simply was, why the u.s. cannot afford to be more selective with choosing refugees who come here. i was thinking that, i was thinking refugee policy could be altered to become more like canada's. more selective but accepting of the fact that refugees are fleeing persecution. host: randy capps? guest: it is true that canada has a different, more selective overall immigration policy, but they also do take a large number of refugees. not as many as we have historically, what i believe it is more at the moment, but

proportionate to their population, they do accept a bit more than we do. there are two different groups. immigrants in general are selected more on education and skills in canada and more on family ties in the u.s.. that system is a little more selective in canada. refugees are a different subgroup. for refugees, in both countries, they try to select a mix of people by looking at those who are most in need. host: massachusetts, republican. caller: good morning. venezuela, guatemala, and el salvador, we give them money. it goes into the pockets of american politicians. nothing for the people, nothing for anyone in the country. all of these people fleeing these countries, they are

financial refugees. america is a great place to look a -- make a living. maybe they are starving where they are. you are overwhelming our school systems. we have to shut down classes of all kinds. so we can hire dozens of teachers to teach these illegal immigrants. they are putting in 15 and 16-year-olds in with five-year-olds. host: randy capps? guest: you are correct when you're are talking about the governments of central america. there are a lot of problems with corruption and poor governance. there is a lot of controversy about how we distribute the aid. we have tried the u.s. -- the u.s. government has tried to provide the assistance through ngos and other sources so that

it cannot be siphoned off. really, something about the governance -- clearly, something about the governance of those countries has to change. it is also true, as president once said, the u.s. is a beacon -- as president reagan once said, the u.s. is a beacon on a hill. a mix of people fleeing true persecution and those who are coming for economic advancement. that is what our asylum system is struggling to do, to screen who really meets the rough -- definition of refugee. the refugee program primarily accepts people from other regions. that screening program is much more intensive. it really does focus on people who are flaying religious persecution -- fleeing religious

persecution and such. host: we will take a deeper dive later on into the northern triangle and why citizens from those countries are migrating to the u.s. randy capps, kamala harris met virtually with guatemala's leader and pledged more assistance and strengthening cooperation to better manage the increase in migration. when people come from the northern triangle and they claim asylum, what happens? guest: the first thing that happens is that the border patrol decides what to do with them depending on whether they come as adults, a family group, children. if they come as children, go to the office of refugee resettlement. families are generally released.

some of them are still being expelled. but they are generally released. adults are often detained. it is a process. they go through immigration courts to hear their asylum claims. immigration and citizenship will screen. if they have a credible -- they go into the details of their asylum claims and that takes a long time. that is the central issue. it is taking years for most of those central american asylum claims to be adjudicated. the reason why so many unauthorized immigrants are appearing in local communities, the children are in school, etc., they do not get the determination of whether they have a valid asylum claim often

for years. that allows them to disappear into the general unauthorized immigrant population. host: michigan, independent. jim, it is your turn. question or comment? caller: if we do not concentrate on going after the bad guys in central america, if we do not wipe those guys out, people do not have to worry about emigrating. guest: as -- i believe the prior caller mentioned, the difficulty is there is poor governance in those areas. the venezuelan government -- the honduran president's brother has been convicted on drug charges in the u.s. it is really a mess. go back a few decades, civil wars all over the region.

determining who the good guys are and bad guys are in the region is very difficult. now, a strategy to address that is to build up the authorities -- police, prosecutors, detention system -- two make those systems less corrupt -- to make those systems less corrupt, increase the rule of law. the u.s. has been funding that through usaid programs for several years with limited success. it is tough because some of the bad actors are in the governments of these countries. host: this is a tweet from one of our viewers who wants to know -- immigration is needed.

it is always going to hurt usa society and south american slave wage workers. what have been the benefits of allowing refugees into our country? guest: when we talk about refugees, of course, we have to differentiate them from the unauthorized immigrant population. unauthorized immigrants, many of them work under the table. some of them work with false documents. they also do generate a lot of benefit for the country, to. they take a lot of jobs that other people in the country do not want to take, working the fields, growing crops, working and plans to process the food, etc. refugees are a different story. they are formerly employed and

insisted -- and assisted in finding formal employment. the vast majority of them do find employment. they are required to do that within their first few months in the country. they are allowed and provided federal assistance for retraining and education. many refugees are highly skilled. they may have been doctors or scientists in their own countries. certain countries -- russia, former soviet republics, iran come to mind have sent a lot of qualified refugees to the country. that is a formal system. the numbers are small. 100,000 refugees coming in any given year and it is more like 60,000-70,000 historically. that cannot have much of an

impact on a labor force of 150 million. host: pennsylvania, a republican. good morning, john. caller: i would like to bring up a couple of facts. right now, we are trying universal basic income in this country because they realize that in the future, automation will do away with jobs. what are we going to do with all of these uneducated immigrants? another point, biden wants less pollution. every human being in this country creates 16 tons of carbon footprint. these are a few things that are going to happen. host: let's direct those comments at the refugee policy. do we need refugees in this country given the census data that just came out that shows a population growth rate slowing to the lowest since the 1930's?

guest: overall, we have seen birthrates plummet from -- plummet to 1.75. the population would shrink if we did not have additional people coming in overall. how you select those people, who should they be, again, as i mentioned earlier, refugees run the gamut on the skill spectrum from highly skilled professionals to basic levels of education. there are different kinds of jobs that are subject to automation, some more than others. i believe john is correct, we will see more and more automation in transportation. there are already self-driving cars and trucks.

we have seen automation in the office, of course. there are other jobs that are much harder. they tried to automate certain kinds of agriculture and found that having low skilled labor work in the fields is better than automation for a lot of different kinds of crops. we have also found that it is harder to automate the kinds of jobs that have face-to-face interactions. all of that changed during the pandemic, right? people could not go out to eat in restaurants and bars and clubs and venues. all of that is likely to come back. that hospitality industry and lodging, amusement parks, all of that will come back. you have seen high demand for lower skilled immigrant labor in those industries and we have something called the h2 b

program which is a temporary seasonal legal program for low skilled workers. it really has not -- prior to the pandemic, it had not been meeting the demand. it is not just that the population growth is slowing down to a crawl. the population is getting older. supply of younger workers for those kind of industries has been shrinking. host: maryland, david, independent. caller: thank you for taking my call. i want to reiterate what a previous caller said. he mentioned the schools are getting overcrowded and they definitely are and it seems to be so in the poorest areas. the poorest americans are most affected and they are the greatest burden.

they are focusing on an extra year or two of teaching children alphabet or english.