and we never slow down. schools and businesses with virtual and we powered a new reality. we are built to keep you had. >> mediacom, public service along with his others >> coming up, the hearing on preventing racial bias, live at noon eastern on c-span. at 6:30 p.m., representatives appear at an event in florida. on c-span two, admiral charles richard talks about efforts on nuclear modernization. that is at 11:30 a.m. eastern. in one hour, the presidents --

the century foundation founding fathers, and at 9:00 p.m., the proposal for two years of free community college, with david baime of the american association of community colleges. ♪ >> after some 14 months of closed classrooms, figuring out technology and many students falling behind, school is largely in session. so far 54 percent full-time in person by the end of march and even more reopening daily, but for some lawmakers, that is not good enough to pass. good morning. it is friday, may 7, 2021. we will ask you to grade your schools during the pandemic, your local school, or your

school system. grade the school performance, use (202)748-8000 in the eastern time zone. on (202)748-8001 if you are in the pacific time zone. if you are an educated, the line is (202)748-8002 and he can also send us a text to (202)748-8003. make sure to include your name and where you are texting from. on twitter we are at @c-spanwj . it is also near the end of teacher appreciation week, so we would thought we would ask you about that also and also some testimony from the education secretary. we will show you some of that in this first hour.

this is the reporting of politico from this week, biden it's 100 day school reopening goal but reopening difficulties persist. the president hit his goal of reopening. the majority of k-8 schools for in person learning in march and statistics indicated on thursday, yet the data underscores the challenges preparing racial -- repairing racial the securities and reassuring parents that class ring -- classroom learning is safe. it closed -- close of 90% of the public schools offer instruction by the end of march and the government said according to the secretary, 54% of k-8 were open on a full-time basis.

reporting on that hearing of the education secretary and his comments, this is from the washington times, black hispanic students return at lower rates, and that secretary praises reopening goals saying, chairing the president for meeting the goal of reopening the majority of these schools within the first 100 days, but he also acknowledged black and hispanic students return to school at a lower rate than their white classmates. the times writes this, meanwhile half of black and hispanic fourth through eighth graders were still completely learning remotely compared to 21% of white students. i will not be satisfied until 100% schools are open safely for full-time in person learning for all. that is from the education secretary. the minority republican leader

tweeting about that this morning, there are still 16.7 million children who are not attending school full-time. how many were kept from school because the administration allowed the science to be manipulated by special interest groups and republican demand answers. here's what he is talking about, the reporting of the new york post, republicans demand answers from cdc about emails with teachers union. house republicans are demanding the head of the centers for disease control explain the relationships with teachers unions and whether they have influenced guidance on school reopening's following a report in the post, the top republicans on the house energy and commerce committee pointed to a report that showed a flurry of emails among cdc director, her top advisers and union officials

suggesting that the american federation of teachers weighed in on the federal opening guidelines released in february. this morning, our first question is about your school performance grades, the performance during the pandemic. (202)748-8000 the line for those of you in the eastern and central time zones, (202)748-8001 for mountain and pacific and for educators, (202)748-8002. the education secretary was asked about the issue of students falling behind in learning at a hearing this week. >> in light of this loss especially among the most vulnerable, in my mind this is really geared toward this goal, that no child is less than any other child. how to make sure we catch them up, is your department making sure that, you know, one day a

week is not good enough. our democratic governor has stepped up to the plate to sate we need to do this. how are you going to take on some of these bigger systems that are not geared towards these needs? >> thank you for the question. i agree with you, the best equity level we have is in person learning now, not in the fall, now. we need to do everything to get the students in every day. to have social and emotional engagement, the access to a teacher, where as you mentioned, we know students are suffering because of the trauma that they have experienced. what we have done is worked with the cdc to get guidance. we had the school summit. we had over 1100 entries of best

practices that were submitted. we are building up a system to get new data to make sure we are reaching out proactively and talking to the commissioners and the superintendents, if necessary, sending a team to support them because we cannot wait. i am very passionate about it and i agree with you here we need to get the students in right away. what i have seen in my tour, in some of these urban centers, they have old bidding -- buildings that have not had their bent elation system looked at in years, so there are needs that we need to address. host: this first hour, we are

asking you to great your school performance during the pandemic, (202)748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones, (202)748-8001 for the pacific zones. the first comment says we have been open since august, and there were waves of outbreaks. we had to quarantine some of the student body. the shear stress of this year has aid me question their want to continue working as a teacher. from derek says my three kids go to three different schools in concord, north carolina, and they are handling it excellently. if you are an educator of the line is (202)748-8002. let's go to john from brooklyn. justice ginsburg: -- caller: i want to ask two or three sort of questions.

some of them have 30 kids in one classroom, what about the spacing, like you just said earlier, the ventilation is something in these fillings, it is insufficient. do have a team to go through these old schools in black neighborhoods and see if they have room for spacing and ventilation and laptops? thank you. host: to woodford from cincinnati on our educators line. caller: i have taught everything from kindergarten through graduate school over a long time. i think education is in my blood. my mother was also a teacher who felt keenly about the need to

take different cultural patterns in the neighborhoods that were very much in need of it, in mississippi in the 1950's and 1940's. i've had the experience of seeing things turn around when the teachers are trained to understand the cultural needs that we have in this particular city, as great as it is, even in in old new york city skills about getting teachers and students together. what we need to do is focus on the family of the student and train teachers to be able to communicate with those parents or others who are involved in the child's life. let the teachers learn how to welcome the parents and let the school system learn how it is bitingly important. -- vitally important.

i don't think we even have an inkling of that. i don't want us to go back in thinking to the little house on the prairie and all of that, but we need some of that spirit of involvement of the entire community with the schools and what is happening to bring the youngsters along. host: do you think your technology has helped or hurt your -- caller: technology is like dangle bracelets on the arm of a beautiful woman. [laughter] if you don't have the essence of the woman, with all of the things that go with the job they are doing, then you will not have anything. we have to go for the vital need for communication between and among everyone in the life of the child and the educational system. teachers need to be supported in being more humane and culturally involved, and all of the

administrators and principals, and get it together. we just do not have that. we don't have that sense of the immersion of letting the child feel immersed in the environment for all of the adults care about what is happening. margaret mead, the anthropologist, went into islands in the pacific and noted that the important thing there about how there was low child the link would see, the parent involvement, the family involvement was what she sees don and she said we just do not have that in this country. we need that family involvement. the child needs to be nurtured in that kind of framework. host: next, another educator,

clay, from louisiana. caller: hello. we have private school here and we never missed a day. we started school august 5, and if a child was exposed or had the covid, we did it through virtual teaching through microsoft teams. i teach science, and any demonstration i did, they got to stay-at-home, and they had the hand outs that i gave, and we never missed a day except for hurricanes. host: do think that technology you are using, will that continue regardless? caller: not for me so much, because my textbook is all online. we do not even have textbooks in the room. every child in our school has a

little chromebook, and my textbook is online. i give tests online. they have handouts, ancillary materials i give them. they sign in and there is a homework page, they can go there and get the assignment. i post videos or websites to do, and some things on youtube. they can watch it at home if they miss school. it is right there. it is handed into me. they send it into me. host: when you hear about other school systems that are unable to do these sorts of things, i think you said you teach at a private school. when you hear about schools, private or public, that are unable to do the things that your school system has done,

what are your thoughts? caller: well, excuse me. i can understand sometimes they are financially unable, but it is quite easy to do. i am not a genius, and i was able to pick it up. the kids are a lot more technology advanced than adults, but i do not see why they cannot go that way. i think the technology is the way to go of the future because it opens up so much. the child can go on google and google of answers and do more research. i teach science, and they can do research. if they get curious about something, it is all right there , the whole universe of

knowledge is there. host: how long have you been teaching virtually with chromebook, using no textbooks? caller: i went to work at the school for years ago so i have been doing it three years. host: so three years at least. we appreciate your comments this morning. some comments on social media. you can send us a text at (202)748-8003. this one says suburban schools and private schools have been in person since august. this would create a huger divide between the have and have nots. we have had every student equipped with laptop since march of 2020. they been back in school full-time since january with mask wearing and social distancing. the ventilation systems are updated now. i am a liberal, but we need kids back in school now.

baltimore county schools have been weak and the quality is pathetic, both the public schools in west virginia university are mostly online and the quality is unacceptable. i have to get our school performance a b plus. our super intendant kept the lunch program going and he took buses to different locations with lunches so the kids could eat. i asked him about the rules to keep schools open, and his reply, was the -- was there was a lot of work, but it it was worth it. we're asking you to grade your school systems during the pandemic. this is the budget as presented by the biden administration to congress. this is for fiscal year 2022, the total request for the department, 102.8 billion, a 41%

increase over the current funding level. it doubles federal spending on all title i programs. the education secretary testifying this week on that budget and talked about the priorities, not just the budget, but the priorities of the budget. >> education can be the great equalizer. it was for me. if we prioritize and invest in what works, for all students, not just some. we must do more to level the playing field. including providing a foundation from birth, improving diversity among the teacher workforce and creating pathways that work for all. to that end, the proposal calls on congress to invest nearly 103 billion for the programs. a 41% over the increase from 2021.

the fiscal year 2022 requests also makes a down payment toward the goal of reversing inequities , starting with the increase to double funding for title i to address disparities between under resourced schools and wealthier counterparts, support teachers in title i schools with competitive wages, expand access to prekindergarten and provide access to advance coursework. the request will also build on the prior commitment to support the mental health needs of students including increasing the number of school counselors, nurses and mental health professionals in the schools. in addition, the request will increase the availability of wraparound services in underserved schools and communities with a significant expansion of the full-service community schools program. host: on social media some

comments, the performance is asking you to grade the performance of your school system. for example, florida has little going on upstairs so the students are encouraged to imitate him both by parents and the schools, and i no longer have children in the local south carolina school, but i ran daughters and virginia both thrived academically, though i could not rate the overall outcome, their socialization continued throughout outside extracurricular activities. asking you to grade your school performance. this is lou from illinois. caller: i would like to stress that schools, without the schools, it's like a rocket ship, and it takes a lot of

effort in science and understanding and good parenting to get the schools to be that rocket ship. we just cannot look at them as a separate entity. i believe schooling actually starts at birth. we have to remember that. that kid coming into school has to have the necessary motivation and desire to learn. we just can't grade school versus school. host: next up is cheryl from maryland. caller: hi. i have seen our county in frederick, and i have a lot of teachers [indiscernible] i am so disgusted with the government taking over and the

courses they are teaching. my family members are complaining all the time, and it is just disgusting what our education has gone through. i graduated in 1977 from high school, and the use to teach me the roadrunner. my brother graduated from records, -- rutgers and he never learned any english. as i said, the democratic policies, the government takeover, is just ridiculous, and we need to go back to private choice and let the parents and society, the parents of the children decide on the education instead of government

rule. host: here's a piece looking ahead to the fall semester, will schools open in the fall, is the headline. with the u.s. economy growing, millions of people have returned to work, yet there is still one large group whose employment rates remain below their pre-pandemic levels, mothers of young children. consider this data, the explanation is obvious, many schools and daycare centers have not returned to normal operations. women with young kids, in terms of precipitation in the -- participation in the labor force has commented. they are open -- many are open for only a few hours a day, a few days a week, making it difficult for parents to return to jobs. and parent responsibilities fall

disproportionately on women. the situation is unlikely to change, but raises a major question about the start of the next year. will schools fully reopen, every day, monday through friday, and every week? this is mary from arkansas. caller: in arkansas the schools have been open pretty much all the way through. that is just how they did it for better or worse. i have grandchildren, one is three and one is one and a half. the three-year-old loves preschool, pre k, and during the pandemic they enjoyed being family, but she learned so much there. it is good for these kids.

most people cannot really afford it, so i think it would be a great thing for that to be included, because it would do good things for the children and prepare them for school. host: thank you. she is calling from arkansas. she mentioned there school system largely open. there is this map that shows the percentage of schools in each state and the percentage of in person, how much is open, and arkansas, 96 point eight, some of the liking states include erland at just 50%. some 30% for hawaii. in california, 53.2% in terms of in person learning.

scott is from wyoming. though ahead. -- go ahead. caller: the schools in way home -- wyoming, all of them have been open since last september and i find it odd. i am wondering if you can, why it is that just red states, the schools have been open all year and the blue skate -- states, not. you think there is a correlation westmark host: -- correlation? caller: if they can dummy down the schools, they are likely to buy into this transformation. why is it that people expect the government to pay for their preschool and from cradle-to-grave, that is not what built this country and not what my father fought for and not what i am fighting for when it comes down to it, because they are coming for our freedom

and they will not get it. i promise you that. host: breckenridge, michigan, up, eric. caller: we've been back in school since beginning of september, and the only time we worked was when the pandemic first hit. i guess i agree totally with the last caller, everything he said. host: military graduation yesterday reported from the wall street journal, the first female marines, in a ceremony marking a graduation that included the first female u.s. marines in the history of marine corps recruit depot in san diego thursday. george from ohio, go ahead. caller: our school, the

performance i give it an a. the schools opened up fully in march. for a long time they were going two days a week, and there was only a short time during the pandemic when the school was actually completely closed and all of the kids were online. they stepped up to the plate and did the things they had to do to make the school safe. i just wanted to call and let you know that at least in ridgewood, ohio, the school district -- host: in what instants did they have to shut down, was that because of a spike in places? caller: that was just during the pandemic and during when the governor had shut down the schools. as soon they were able to come back to partially remote

learning, going to school a couple of days a week and then remote learning, they did that. they put it off, and that i give them all the credit in the world for what they have done. some of the other districts around the country, if they would just look at some of the schools, they may be able to adapt some of these things to increase the kids going to school. it worked out pretty good in this area and we were hit pretty hard by the pandemic. i do give them an a for everything they have done. host: the testimony this week by the education secretary on the 2022 budget request before the appropriations subcommittee. he was asked about changes in education. >> as we have gone through this

pandemic, it has affected a lot of what we have been seeing and learning about education, and it seems like there has been a lot of people that are trying to make things work and using creative ways, whether it is online learning, different choice options. what did we learn to this process that may increase more innovation, opportunities for parents to tailor programs that meet the needs of individual students, any thoughts? >> thank you. you brought up something that is important. that system that we had before was not serving all kids equitably. i think students need to get back in the class, the role of

blended learning, that should be a part of how we educate students. how we integrate social and emotional well billing -- well-being needs to be something that we think about in the experience of students instead of waiting for issues and then reacting. creative ways for students, what i see in connecticut, if this was a class right now, it does not necessarily -- or the options that the district provides could be wider, because there may be a teacher in a neighboring community where the communities worked together to share the expertise, we could offer more options for students. how beneficial would that be for our rural students, we need to be think outside the box, and i encourage that, to be created with the funding to make sure the programming that we get is

better than what we got last year. >> i appreciate that. as someone who represents a rural district, i have seen the importance of broadband and the need to expand that to meet the educational needs of our students. there is the boost act that hopefully will help with that process. it is very bipartisan legislation. host: part of that testimony from the sec. this week on their budget. we are asking this morning to grade your school's performance, and the lines are for eastern and central time zone, (202)748-8000. in the mountain and pacific time zones, (202)748-8001. educators, the line (202)748-8002. we have a poll up on twitter, how did your school's

performance due during the pandemic? it is the best kind of grading for underperforming students like me, pass, fail, and the viewers are saying that most systems, 75% -- 73.5% are at the passing level and 26.5 say they are failing. we would like to hear what you have to say. you can also send us a text at (202)748-8003. eric is from manchester, new hampshire. caller: thank you for taking my call. living in new hampshire, the schools, like we did not have the governor suggesting people wear masks and things like that. you know, new hampshire, we are

independent, but we are polite to each other. nationwide i am disappointed with how this corona thing has been handled. it has been politicized since the beginning. they say trust the science selectively and when the science is something they do not agree with, they still impose on it. i think we are losing our freedom. the government is overstepping its authority. new york state basically wants to give you an excel sir card, what is the difference between that and a tattoo? how is the government doing this, completely violating all of the other federal laws, health privacy and everything else. i hope american people wake up

because we are getting screwed. host: this, said my children took 100% virtual schooling and their education has not suffered. their teachers did a wonderful job. republicans criticized biden for not mandating schools reopening as our nation falls further and further behind the rest of the world. all students from sixth grade and up are issued ipads. school continued during the pandemic. choice of in school or virtual was elected every six weeks and it works for them. that was from russ from texas. this one says our local superintendent did an excellent job. the government destroyed his work and made our schools unsafe . a sad example of a

one-size-fits-all not working there that is rachel from iowa. in indiana, pennsylvania, this is josie. caller: i am a retired educator but i work with the local school district on a committee and i am very proud of what our school district was able to do during the pandemic. we did have remote learning, however our elementary students were able to attend four days a week. they could choose to do remote learning if the parents are concerned about infection rates, which are low in our building. we had a real concerted effort to continue extracurricular activities during the pandemic by following strict cdc guidelines. we work hard to keep education at a high level and our teachers were fantastic. our superintendent was extraordinary in his efforts to

continue quality education. i have to say that the local board worked tirelessly and has come up with a summer school option so that those who feel as though they have fallen behind will be able to attend summer school. it was very trying, and as a retired teacher, i will have to give kudos to those who were in the classrooms and on zoom screens during this pandemic. they did a fantastic job. it is not easy to be a teacher in the best of circumstances, but in this historic time, it was early something what they accomplish. i think we were able to do well. host: great to hear from you. step, geneva from oklahoma. caller: i've been enjoying listening to what is been going on around the country. i think probably several places are similar here.

we've had the parental option on whether to be in school or online, and there has been times when the local schools has allowed, had children stay home and work online maybe one day a week just so they can have that capability in case the school had to shut down. a few times because we had a big spike, the schools had to shut down. but we had several parents early on decide to go with a state charter school that is been online for the last several years. the problem is the charter school, since they are not having to paper buildings and transportation, have been getting the same money from the state, and there class sizes have been larger.

the remote learning that is going on is inferior to that charter school. the test scores for the last several years had 50% failure rates, and yet the state is continuing to give that money because they are so politically powerful that they are spending money getting people elected. if you vote against funding that school or you vote for inspecting what is going on with the money, then they supplied money to get you out of office. the kids that are online all the time, there is no way that it is as good as being in the classroom. host: so this performance of this charter school, this is not just during the pandemic. caller: this is been going on for years, and they have been inspected by the state attorney general, by the state auditor

and inspector. they have been fined millions, but they have not paid it yet and they are working to make sure they don't have to pay it back. host: who is behind the supporting the charter school? you talked about the political ramifications -- caller: they had a big increase in enrollment because of the pandemic and i understand that, but people don't understand the charter school was failing before the pandemic. and they have hired people just out of the blue. they do not have to be educators, and i know some people that are being paid to be teachers for them and they are holding down two jobs. they get their regular job and then they are handling this online, and they are not sufficiently prepared. they don't meet children's

individual needs especially higher mathematics and lab science. they are lagging behind. if they have a parent home, just like with the locals home -- local school, they gave an online option for the parent that wanted it. host: does oklahoma have a test that kids have to take to get from eighth grade to high school are to graduate from high school? caller: yes. we have different tests, but what i'm saying the online schools had a 50% failure rate. host: very good information. thank you. patrick from maryland. next up. caller: thank you for taking my call. in terms of maryland, i would get the two schools that my girls go to na+, and the reason

why i am suggesting that is the way they did it. they started hybrid mining back in august of last year, and it wasn't until recently that they decided to increase the amount of days. the only thing i can say is under the republican governor, governor hogan, he did an excellent job. essentially what he was saying was everybody, we need to do what we need to do to curb this virus so that everybody can get back to school so that life can start as normal. unfortunately, and i hate to say this, and i know people do not want to hear it, but the american people really screwed up. what i mean by that, we didn't do what we were supposed to do. if we all had done the mask, even when we found out we were supposed to do it, and we all did it, we would be ahead of this thing.

instead, what the american people have done was listen to a politician versus a physician on what to do in curbing a virus. if you believe that all states are the same, they are not. the major hubs would beat california, new york, florida, texas, and they had major spikes. a lot of states needed to look at what are we going to do to save our children? what winds up happening unfortunately is that all schools are not the same. they are not the same. some are more equipped than others. the ones that my girls go to seem to be very equipped and were on it from day one. they are learning, and they have

done quite well. host: what grades are your daughters in there? caller: sophomore and freshman in high school. host: are these public high schools? caller: private. that is the reason why i'm just saying that some schools are more equipped than others. some have proper ventilation systems, and i hope that what the government does is make sure that all schools are properly equipped, ventilation systems, that all children have laptops, things of that nature, which unfortunately is not happening i don't believe. i may be incorrect, but i don't believe that is across the board. host: this is the opinion of the heritage foundation, the look at the budget proposed. the spending spree is untenable,

unaffordable, and they write that the administrations recently released request would expand the federal footprint on education through a accelerated spending spree. the administration requested nearly 103 billion, a 40 1% increase for the department of education, and the heritage foundation bullet points, increases for school districts from students from low income low income housing, increasing title i funding, and individuals with disabilities act, increasing funding to the team .5. head start, which would receive 11.9 billion, school districts which would receive an additional one billion to increase the number of counselors and mental health professionals, and the federal pell grant program which would see an increase of $40 per grant

on average. some reaction on social media and by text, your question this morning, this one says not all have problems, many kids grades soared, more peace of mind not having to face in person harassment. rick, from california, neighborhood kids say remote school is not good and all have computers, i cannot believe that school districts and teachers believe they have done children well. steve from florida, rating school with no class, students is like grading kids who have had parents with no parenting skills. kids don't educate themselves without supervision alone in front of the screen. i am in new jersey, i have elementary school children and the schools have done a great job thus far.

however, even though new jersey is listed as having in person school, no one is telling you is that they are on early dismissal schedule so they are in school five is weak but only from 9-1. -- five days a week, but only from 9-1. caller: good morning. in thomasville, i have a child that goes to a private school and also a child that goes to a public school. both of those started last september, and it was 100% in person. the schools initially were strict about masks and distancing, but as the year went on, things have been, starting you know in october, things lessened up. we were pushed in georgia because football is really big, and we thought they were not

going to be any football games. we thought they would be canceled. we had no games canceled, public or private. you had one school with a lot of resources and another no one without, and virtually the same outcomes as far as sickness. you did have some kids get sick and they would recover within their time and then come back. we did not have -- percentagewise, i can't tell you what it was, but i know we did not miss any games. we did not have any days where we canceled school. our schools in thomasville, although we had a lot of trepidation in the beginning, last september, it worked out fine. hearing people talking about going back to school, i don't understand it. host: what part of georgia is thomasville in? caller: south georgia, not far from the florida line.

i'm only 40 miles north of tallahassee. i would speak that for the whole area and the same thing for ask of all. we are very involved in sports. host: did they allow spectators to and -- to attend the games? caller: it was limited, now football games, everybody could come. initially they did restrict it, but they opened it up as far as spectators. spectators ended up being 100% towards the end. but everybody had to wear a mask at all events, indoors and out. host: castleton, vermont, mary, good morning. caller: i wanted to thank c-span

for all the good work you do but i want to applaud the teachers because they have done a phenomenal job all year. host: here is a story from the wall street journal about global covid deaths, the center of the global covid pandemic has shifted to low and middle income countries feeling sickness and death on a scale that could quickly exceed the worldwide toll in 2020. they write that more than 1.4 million deaths have been reported this year as the virus has torn through latin america and asia. with recorded deaths rising by about 13,000 daily toll looks to set within weeks to surpass 1.8 million recorded for 2020. some reporting means those

figures are almost certainly underestimated experts say and india continues to set the world record in new cases with the virus overwhelming hospitals in many areas. the total is more than 21 million. this is danielle from bethlehem, pennsylvania. caller: i just want to say we are in a democratic state, and the governor is very democratic, but most of the public schools, with the exception of the concentrated urban areas have been open, not full-time, but they have been open to an extent where they have half of the school in a couple of days a week in the second half of the school going another couple days. my daughter goes to private school. they have been in school since

the end of august with only a couple of cases of covid the entire year. they have never had an instance where they had to stop schooling or everybody go into quarantine. i think it can be done, and i think it needs to be done, because there are a lot of kids that are suffering from being home with their parents, who cannot dedicate the time to help them. host: based on your experience as you look at the systems that largely shut down or shut down for remote learning, is it your view that was an overreaction, that school systems should have attempted what your school did, in person learning or in person

learning and to deal with covid cases as they came up? caller: i don't think so. i think in certain situations where you have that concentration and you are not able to decrease the class sizes in a way that makes it safe enough or you don't have proper ventilation, bottom line, it is airborne, and the more concentrated amount of people you have in a space the more likely you are to spread the virus. if you are unable to do that, then shutting them down and having them go virtual was the right thing to do. in a situation where, you know, what was the number, 70%, or 50% of people are vaccinated, most teachers have been vaccinated.

i think it is only fair to the children to have them open now and i'll be in school altogether. host: we appreciate your skull -- your call this morning. back to the subcommittee on appropriations looking at the budget for the education department. the chair of the committee talked about school systems, funding underfunded systems. >> i am pleased to hear your testimony about the money for title i and addressing the funding disparities between under resourced schools and the districts and their wealthier counterparts. what is up concern to me, 90% of k-12 education funding comes from states and districts, with

just a handful of exceptions. i am concerned that most states do not prioritize this funding. given the reality, how do you see the proposed increase to title i improve the equity -- in equity in the state funding? >> we know the elements of this plan really serve to communicate the transformational impact that the president and the team want to have in education and really value the role that education plays in the growth of the country. the title i allotment helps level the playing field by making sure the schools have additional resources to provide more reading instruction, more reading instruction, or social and emotional support, the intervention and support they would need so education could be the equalizer for them. this approach really aims to

make sure that when we are out of the pandemic and thinking about education in the years to come, make sure all students have access to high-quality instruction to be successful in school. host: another boating law passes, from the new york times, texas gop pushes limiting ballot access, hours after florida installed a new rash of restrictions, a far-reaching bill makes it one of the most difficult states in the nation in which to cast a ballot. the bill would greatly empower partisan poll watchers, prohibit officials from mailing out absentee ballot applications and impose punishment for those who provide assistance for those outside the lines of what is permissible. governor greg abbott is widely

exit that -- expected to sign the bill into law. some comments, i cannot believe there is a question about fall reopening, are you kidding me? kids need interaction with other kids. please let kids return to school and that parents returned to their jobs. this one says my graduating senior's school open for students who need to go in person. we stayed home. michael says our oregon districts and -- are have had good flexibility and responding to the demands of the pandemic. the teachers have given above and beyond in helping but the students in the districts. news this morning about requests from pfizer, pfizer seeks full

fda approval of the covid-19 vaccine, and pfizer and their partner have asked the fda for full approval of their vaccine for people ages 16-older. in new york, this is robert, next up. caller: good morning. i have two points. back in the 60's, california had free education for junior-college. it was a disaster. they could not afford it. they stopped the program. we should go back and look at history and say why did those programs fail? if we are going to bring that back, we should look at what happened in the past and how can we correct that. we are just throwing the program out. i second is, in nick city, -- in new york city, second responders

children continue their education and everybody else, the schools were closed. what happened to the students that were we will end on this note from new york, headline from the hill. new york public schools makes snow days for remote learning. public schools are going forward opting for remote learning on days when school buildings are closed because of bad weather. coming up on washington journal, we will take a closer look at two of the education proposals announced by the biden administration. first, the president's proposal to provide universal pre-k. that conversation with kerry mcdonald and halley potter. later people examine the $109 billion plan to provide years of

free community college with david being. -- david boehm -- david daime. ♪ >> go to c-span.org/coronavirus for the federal response to the pandemic. if you miss our live coverage, it is easy to find a briefing using an rented gallery and maps to follow cases in the u.s.. go to c-span.org/coronavirus. >> book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, susan, -- the story of the founding mothers of npr. the author profiles four journalists whose reporting help

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>> "washington journal" continues. host: we are continuing our focus on education, particularly proposals of the biden administration. we will focus on the administration's universal pre-k proposal. we are joined by two guests to talk about that. kerry mcdonald is with the cato institute. she's a scholar there. she is a senior education fellow at the foundation for economic education. also, halley potter with the century foundation. thank you for joining us this morning. guest: great to be with you. host: halley potter, let me ask

about the century foundation. what is the foundation do? guest: it is a progressive public policy think tank. our work in education includes early education through college with a focus in equity and ensuring all children into adulthood have access to education support they need. host: kerry mcdonald, you are with the libertarian think tank, the cato group. anything you want to tell us about the foundation for economic education? guest: i am in education fellow at the country's oldest libertarian think tank to promote ideas of individual liberty, free markets, prosperity, and peace. host: we mentioned the biden administration's proposal on universal pre-k education. let's let our viewers know about some of the details of that proposal.

it would provide $200 billion for universal preschool for all three to four-year-olds. it relies on partnerships with the states and insurers publicly funded preschools have high quality developmentally appropriate curriculum and calls for a student -- calls for student-teacher ratios and a minimum pay of $15 per hour. kerry mcdonald, what is your take on the president's proposal? guest: the american family plan is a massive expansion of government into family life and into the lives of young children. i think there is a lot of things wrong with this plan and why i would oppose it. starting with the fact that the federal government has no constitutional role in education. the constitution mentions education nowhere and this should be a state and local issue.

the federal government should not be expanding its role in education. i think the other thing to think about is we already have k-12 government schooling and it is not serving many kids. recent scores on the national assessment for educational progress show declining scores in reading and math. we are not already serving the kids we need to be serving through our existing government schooling. why would we want to go ahead and expand it? our current programs, namely the head start program that costs taxpayers $10 billion every year is not serving students well. there are preliminary gains in preschool but those don't last beyond kindergarten. host: halley potter, specifically on pre-k education, why do you think it is important such a program -- such a large program is introduced?

what are the benefits? guest: all children deserve the chance to succeed and that includes having access to nurturing educational environments. we know parents should preserve the chance to have affordable childcare so their children have a place to thrive while they are working. early learning is incredibly expensive. it takes low ratios of number of children to adults. you have to invest in his first five years which is an incredible time of brain development. that is the investment we should make in society. we have research that shows investments in early learning payoff in dividends. we currently treat k-12 education at the public good it is. we did not used to have kindergarten, we did not used to have free high school but we realize those were important investments.

we expand the public system to support early learning systems that give families the option for that care and education that they deserve when their children are in this period. host: let me provide some pushback for both of you. there is a piece in usa today -- in "usa today." it looks at a couple of analyses of the plan by different groups. i will start with you, halley potter. they say an analysis released by the penn warden budget model, a nonpartisan group, projects that the cost of the president's plan will exceed revenue by 2050 causing a drag on the economy despite the gains the plan proposes. is that a potential downfall for

the plan? guest: one of the things we have seen in recent research the past decade is that we have seen that early learning programs benefit not just low income children but also middle-class children. there is a huge turning benefit for students who have that chance to attend high-quality early learning programs. if we think about these investments spread out over the years in terms of what that means for society and the economy when we have a generation of children who have this access to high-quality support in their most pivotal years, that is going to make a huge difference. i think it is worth us doing everything we can to receive the payoff later. host: kerry mcdonald, they look at analysis by mark zandi. they write that the families plan will boost the economy by

increasing labor force participation and educational attainment while addressing income inequality. your thoughts? guest: the penn warden budget model indicates that president biden's estimate of $200 billion for the universal education opponent -- education component is a very low estimate, that it will cost much more and as a result it will bring down gdp. it will raise debt. this will put a burden on american families overall when we are distance at devising entrepreneurship -- when we are disincentivizing entrepreneurship. two of the randomized controlled studies of the existing preschool program, the gold standard of results in these programs is the tennessee pre-k

program that found initial gains and academics for those students who participated in the preschool program, those gains were gone by kindergarten. in third grade, they found the control group was outperforming the students who participated in that government preschool program. similarly in the head start program, fleeting gains from preschool gone by kindergarten. in the head start program, third graders were found to be more progressive and have more emotional and behavioral issues if they participated in the government program as opposed to those in the control group that did not. host: do you want to respond to that? guest: those studies have gotten a lot of attention but there is concern about the comparison groups in those cases. it is not apples to apples. they compared students in these programs to children who were in other preschool programs. if you do the comparison again

and compare children in these programs to children not in any programs at all, you see benefits. those are two studies that stand up against more than one dozen studies on a variety of different programs that have consistently for decades shown incredible benefits to these investments in early education. not only in terms of academic benefits but in terms of lifelong benefits, increased earnings, and increased health outcomes. host: we are going to open up phone lines for our guests kerry mcdonald and halley potter talking about the biden administration's universal pre-k proposal. for parents, it is 202-748-8000. for educators --202-748-8001. for all others, it is 202-748-8002. kerry mcdonald, what do you think the past year -- during the pandemic, we talked about

education during the pandemic. has the past year shown that the nation does need a better way to take care of our kids so the workforce can remain working so that parents can have a reliable source for pre-k if not beyond? guest: i think the past year has shown the pitfalls of government schooling. we need to remember in most places private schools were able to reopen for full-time in-person learning without disruption. in many cases, public schools have started to reopen in large part due to to -- due to teacher influence. we have seen an exodus from district schools. public school enrollment is down 5% in arizona, down 4% in massachusetts where i am. we have seen an increase in homeschooling.

homeschooling has tripled to about 5.7 million homeschoolers. they are about 11% of the current k-12 population. parents are voting with their feet and choosing private options. host: halley potter, this proposal by the biden administration, how much does it rely on state participation? how much does the state have to put into this to participate? guest: there are a lot of details to be worked out but it is important that this be a partnership between the federal government and states. states don't have a lot of say in setting up how these programs work. having the federal role is crucial because states can't afford to do this on their own. the federal government needs to play an important role in terms of defining and supporting what high-quality educational environments look like. host: let's get to our callers. we will hear from bill in columbia, maryland. go ahead. caller: really glad to hear the

libertarian on the show. i am actually a parent. i don't know if i called in on the wrong line. i have four children, they spent three decades. my youngest is four and my oldest is 32. i'm a truck driver. i don't have the resources to send my children to private school even though i want to. during the early years, you have to pay for daycare which i have done for all my children. i went to school at the university of maryland and studied economics and politics and i got exposed to milton friedman who is a libertarian. i am horrified by the political indoctrination, the cultural indoctrination that is occurring at public schools. i wish there was a way we could

get vouchers to create competition in the education system and parents like myself who would prefer to put my child in a christian school or some of her -- or some other private school could have a portion of the money that the state spends on education. i am wondering with the pre-k, how will that work? will they create a public pre-k school or just give money to the parents? that is what i think they should be doing for all 12 grades. give money to the parents and let them pick the school whether it is public or private would like to send their children to. host: we will give our guests a chance to respond starting with kerry mcdonald. guest: thank you for your call. a couple of things, i agree with you about the k-12 level that we should be expanding school choice.

over the past year, parental support for policies like education, vouchers, tax credits, it has skyrocketed and now more than two dozen states have active school choice legislation. i agree that the money should follow the student and not the system. with the universal government preschool program, this would be a new program. an expansion of government into earlier years. i think in the next hour, you are talking about community college. it is creating an entirely new program where there has not been one already. in that case, i think we need to stop it before it begins. host: halley potter, any thoughts to what our caller had to say? guest: one of the key things about the universal pre-k program is that the model is based on a mixed delivery system. what that means is they will be pre-k provided across a variety of different settings. some will be in public schools,

some will be in private schools and private schools. some are home provided. some families will have the opportunity to choose what pre-k setting is best for their children. there will be a lot of parents choice in terms of figuring out what that fit is. at the same time, the same reason in k-12 education we don't have a system where we give parents a purse of money, we don't want to do that in early education because we simply don't have the infrastructure to begin with. if you are somewhere -- if you are somewhere where you have bad roads, you could try to give everyone a salary of money they could use on building better roads, but that is not a great way to build an actual transportation system. we need to think about this as investing in our young children. we need to actually build up the early care and learning system infrastructure in our country.

we can only do that with systematic public support for these crucial years. host: you mentioned earlier about headstart's -- about headstart. remind us what that program is about. sheila on twitter asks, when did headstart begin -- asks when headstart began. guest: headstart started in the 1960's. it is a federal program that serves low income children and their families. headstart serves around one million children every year which is far fewer children than are actually eligible. headstart has never had the funding to serve all of the children who would be eligible based on their family criteria and income. headstart with state pre-k are the two major types of public

preschool that exists right now -- that exist right now. host: kerry mcdonald, would you view the headstart program as successful? guest: no, and i think the data shows that to be the case. all preliminary gains declined by kindergarten and there are in some cases a reversal by third grade. the other thing to keep in mind because i think halley potter made this point, the proposed universal pre-k plan allows for a variety of different providers. headstart does the same thing. headstart has partnerships with federal and state governments and partnerships with private and public providers. this is really just an expansion of headstart. why would we want to be expending a program that has failed already despite costing $10 billion in taxpayer money every year? host: our parents' line is 202-748-8001. educators -- parents' line is

202-748-8000. educators is 202-748-8001. caller: thank you for letting me share my thoughts. young people with anxiety and depression, not every marriage is perfect, a lot of families are working through their issues. however, because of the children being at home and in the parents' faces every day, there has been a case of this being pushed onto the children. i think this -- host: out -- al? go ahead.

caller: i think it has to. host: sorry, you are coming in and out. we will move on to another caller. caller: i think we have to recognize the rate of learning and development during the years maximizes children's potential. this is why we have an education system. the learning environment builds upon that. the pre-k environment -- i come from a family who was one of the first of the headstart program. it has been around since 1967. let's be clear, what this is really about, this is about trying to create a transfer of public power -- the situation about the vouchers, i don't care what they call them. we have 50 million children in our public school system that

90% of the money comes from property tax. only about 10% comes from federal government. if you could please, ladies, speak to the funding. i have no children. we have always paid for private school. we have never had private school funding. my goddaughter graduated from harvard. harvard had the case that went to the supreme court about affirmative action. all of these things are intersectional. pre-k is paid for here in georgia and all over the state to private contractors. you talk about headstart going to private facilities in terms of the makeup of how it is provided, the teaching and the mechanism of how they operate. the pre-k program all over the country goes to private. we are paying for private pre-k.

we do have progress with headstart. you have never funded headstart, -- this is cato, the lady who spoke of that. getting back to funding, if the ladies could say definitively whether or not the country pays for its public education because we have always had private. i sent my family to duke, columbia, harvard, yale. host: okay, several questions, gail. thank you for your comments. we will go first to halley potter. guest: i'm glad you brought up the research on headstart because i have a different reading of that. we have research on headstart that has followed children through their k-12 experience into adulthood. we have seen the benefits

include increased earning for children and stronger health outcomes. the academic gains are there, too. kerry is right that there are some next findings that they have not carried as far as you would want in elementary school. when i look at that, i think we need to be looking about what are these supports for low income children eligible for headstart when they enter elementary school. the fact that they are showing up to kindergarten ahead is fabulous. we are not providing the right levels of support when they get to kindergarten. one of the things that is fabulous about headstart is it is a whole child model. thinking about the cognitive development of children, how they are learning literacy, but also emotional and social support. there is support for parents in terms of giving them access to workforce development they need and other health resources. we don't do enough of that in

k-12. instead of blaming headstart, i would say see what headstart is doing right and push that into our k-12 system so we can support children to keep those gains and flourish more. host: kerry mcdonald, do you want to address that or the question about funding? guest: i appreciate gail's call. the u.s. spends more than $700 billion in taxpayer money for k-12 district schooling. yet we are in the middle of the pack in terms of international results and poor performance domestically. we are spending more on education here than other countries do. the idea of expanding the government's role in education with existing poor outcomes i think is flawed. i would reiterate that there is no federal role for the government in education.

in georgia, if georgia voters decide they want to launch a universal pre-k -- universal pre-k program there, then constituents can decide that and hold their politicians accountable. that creates more flexibility for taxpayers. if they don't want to pay higher taxes for it, they can leave for another state. when the federal government is involved, there is no escape for us. we are all subject to a one-size-fits-all government program with a lack of experimentation and novation -- extremity and choice. host: from st. petersburg, florida, kevin. go ahead. caller: our predominantly black schools are failing at math and reading. nothing is being done about it.

there was a law passed 25 years ago called "infusion" where the schools in florida would see themselves in a more positive role as students. we know if students see themselves in a positive role, they will have a vision and become that. right now, our classrooms are not fit to integrate infusion. they're not fit to have a multiracial curriculum in the classroom to fit all colors and all kinds of kids. our african-american kids need to see themselves in more of a positive role. why is there not room for infusion to have these classrooms makes with multicultural curriculum? host: do either of you want to respond?

guest: i would love to respond because one of the things i think is so exciting about this opportunity to invest in universal pre-k is it could create this opportunity to have truly diverse education learning environments where you are bringing students of different racial and cultural backgrounds together, where you have educators who themselves are from a wide range of backgrounds and you have the culturally responsive supported curriculum and materials that our caller is talking about. we have so much research on the fact that children do better when they have the chance to learn in these diverse environments, that they have social emotional benefits and are less likely to show racial prejudice if they can go to or the education school and learn along side pierce from different backgrounds -- alongside peers

from different backgrounds. you can also learn from a teacher who is different from you. it is hard to achieve many of those things in early education right now because we have not had support to build a robust system. we do have an asset right now and the terms of the fact that the early education workforce is much more representative of our children. i'm hopeful the challenges our caller is talking about can be any opportunity in early education for us to invest in training and strong wages for a diverse workforce of early educators and for us to create these universal pre-k environments where for the first time we can bring together children who are low income all the way up through the income spectrum to high income children and all racial backgrounds have a chance to attend the same early learning programs. host: we are talking about the american rescue plan, the universal pre-k proposal.

our guests are kerry mcdonald, a scholar at the cato institute, and halley potter, a fellow at the century foundation. we welcome your comments. for parents, it is 202-748-8000. for educators it is 202-748-8001 . all others, 202-748-8002. stephen in massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning. it is fair what he is doing. host: okay, thank you for that. we will get to robert in maryland on our parent line. caller: hi. i am a parent and i have two children in pre-k at the moment. i would welcome a program that would alleviate the cost. to the woman from the cato institute, libertarianism will never work as a pure construct in this contract -- as a pure

construct in this country. neither will socialism. this country has to be a melting pot. there will never be a pure situation you're happy with. just stop with the idea that government is too overreached in education. if we were to go with libertarianism, everybody would be fending for themselves. if that is the case, you make the assumption that everyone is responsible for their own financial situation to be able to educate their children. not everybody is that way, that is not reality. there has to be a safety net. there has to be a provision for the general welfare of the citizens of this country. there is a role for government. the fact that it is federal or state does not matter. if you leave it to the states,

you will have places like kentucky and mississippi providing horrible situations. if they are providing poor situations for their children, they grow up and have poor situations for the adults. your solution to that is they can move. no, they cannot. host: robert, i'm going to get a response from our guests. kerry mcdonald, go ahead. caller: -- guest: i appreciate the call. let's talk about why childcare costs are so high, which i think makes the point for me. the government is heavily involved in these programs. i can start a.com business from my -- a .com business for my bedroom and grow rich pretty big before i have any limitations. but if i want to run a home daycare or a preschool or a micro school in my home, or i want to take the vacant

storefront down the street and open up a preschool there, i have to jump through many hoops, go through all kinds of licensing, restrictions, and regulations to drive up the costs of preschool and of early childhood education. it creates incredible barriers to entry and also drives up costs for consumers. the key is to limit the role of government in our lives, particularly in education and allow free people to interact and form voluntary exchanges that work best for their children and their families. host: let me ask you about an opinion piece by david brooks in the new york times about early education. he says when it comes to parenting, there is no one-size-fits-all all solution. whether a child is harmed by a childcare experience depends on

the nature of a particular child, the care center, and the parents. these are circumstances that only the parents can know so parents should be given maximum power and flexibility to make decisions. we will start with you kerry mcdonald. under this proposal, do you think this gives parents -- certainly the funding, but does it give them the maximum flexibility to make the decision for their kids? guest: it is similar to the head start program where the government is involved in these preschool programs in terms of deciding what the curriculum is, deciding what the student-teacher ratio is, making expectations around teacher certification. that does limit family choices. a lot of families might say i don't need my three-year-old being taught by someone with a bachelors degree and maybe i don't even want my three-year-old taught academic

skills anyway, i want them to play and enjoy being outside with friends during their preschool time. this would limit a lot of parents' choices. host: halley potter, will it give parents more choices? guest: it absolutely will. when washington, d.c. had universal pre-k for three-year-olds and four-year-olds created, we thought the number of mothers participating -- we saw that the number of mothers participating in the workforce increased. many of those mothers had a real choice about whether or not they would participate in the workforce because the high cost of childcare was no longer a huge barrier. in terms of thinking about the choices parents have, i want to have the size that universal pre-k is just part of the american family plan. that is important. we can think about serving three-year-olds and four-year-olds as separate from the way we need to be supporting young children.

the american families plan also includes support for child care subsidies so low income and middle class families will be spending more than 7% of their income on childcare. it includes paid family and medical leave so parents can afford to take time off when the child is born or when they are someone else is sick. in their family. . it also provides child tax credits to be spent on families how they choose. together, all of those supports are about giving parents the maximum number of options. host: let's hear from lynn in birmingham, alabama. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a comment and a question. our doctors, we did do private school for our daughters -- our daughters, we did do private school for them.

the dollars -- i was absolutely stunned. if we added all of those federal dollars for the students that were in the private school, it would have doubled our private school budget. in other words, we were educating our children for half of what the public -- host: lynn, are you still there? caller: i am concerned that there is so much -- host: you are breaking up. i don't know if either of you two want to respond to what she has said so far. guest: i will. it is true that most of the funding for education comes at the state level. the federal government is less than 10% of the overall u.s. k-12 school budget. that is the way it should be,

education should be a state and local issue. it is true that private schools are doing the job much more cheaply and effectively than public schools. a recent review of the d.c. -- of the washington, d.c. voucher program that allowed parents to take some for people funding in the form of a voucher and attend a private school. they found probable outcomes in terms of academics at one third of the cost of the public school students in d.c.. host: halley potter, do you have a reaction to that? guest: only about 10% of children in the u.s. attend private schools. the vast majority of americans send their children to a public school system. that is why we treat it as something we all invest in, even if we don't have children because we know this is part of how we are preparing the next generation of americans to beat our country.

parents absolutely have the choice in k-12 to send their kids to a private program and in universal pre-k it will be no different. families have a choice whether or not they want to attend. it is important that we are thinking about really building up the system to support our next generation in the best way we can. host: on our parent's line is lydia from new york. caller: my son went to headstart many years ago. i a grandmother now. i felt it was useful for him although some of the things they taught were not -- then when he went on to first grade and second grade, he fell behind because his teacher was about to retire and was hardly there. he had substitutes a lot of the time.

he ended up having to take remedial reading. eventually, he actually graduated valedictorian when he graduated high school and went on to college. he even got a masters degree. the one thing i do notice is that i improved my life on the way. so i think it makes a difference what the family does and that is the comment. living in a poor neighborhood, i notice sometimes people handle things differently and have a different outlook on things and give their children less support. i do believe it has to be a complete family situation that is involved to make things better for a child. host: to kerry mcdonald. would you like to respond? caller: -- guest:

congratulations on the success of your child. i think you are right that it does begin with the family. when we think about the vision for our society, it comes down to these two divergent views. one is a focus on the family, the individual responsibility and innovation. the other is looking at the government as our caretaker. host: halley potter, she brought up her son. in a typical -- what is the best scenario for pre-k? what should kids at that age be learning? guest: sometimes you hear people talking about should children just be playing and not in school. that dichotomy is not the way researchers and educators focus on high-quality early learning.

high-quality early learning is play-based and inquiry-based. if you have been into a fabulous preschool -- or the headstart program some had a chance to attend, it is a fun place. people -- children are exploring the world with the guidance of caring and nurturing educators who are giving them the right guidance and support and opportunities to discover new things, to build early skills that help them to develop literacy, have awareness, and have social and emotional skills that are so important for problem-solving. to figure out you working groups. -- to work in groups. one of the things this program along with the childcare subsidies could support is this idea of supporting the whole child and the whole family.

we are not talking here about academic skills that are taking children through drills. we are talking about getting three-year-olds and four-year-olds the chance to work through and explore different topics. to get messy, to figure out how they recover when something does not go the way they want it to go, to figure out how to brush their teeth. there are fine motor skills that go along with that. that is one of the wonderful things i think children are learning from birth. we don't need to think about a separation between play and learning, play is learning. host: to james in new hampshire. caller: hi there. i come from a perspective of one-time being a parent and another time being a headstart consultant back with dr. zigler

who started the program out of yale university. the point i would like to make is that early on, i participated in that. children were exposed to health screenings and referral of patients who cared for these young children. it was impactful. not only did not affect the parent, but participating -- parents were educated in early childhood development and some of these skills were very effective. because of lack of funding many times it does not reach the

entire cohort of individuals we want to see in the program. there simply was not enough money. i don't think it is something that should be disregarded as a program. it was very effective. the brookings institution supports that. i realize people of economic motivation want to see spending in that area limited. it does give the opportunity for disenfranchised children to escalate their abilities. that is how i feel about it. to ignore that is folly. host: kerry mcdonald, your thoughts on james's experience? guest: i think they are similar in terms of social emotional

trading -- social and emotional training. we find initial gains in preschool but those gains deteriorate and then you find kids are actually more aggressive, have emotional -- have more emotional and behavioral issues by third grade. you might have initial gains in preschool programs to the tune of billions of dollars. they go away very soon. in some cases they potentially show more harm than good when we have control group students acting out less than the students in these programs. host: halley potter, what are your thoughts on his comments on reaching the disenfranchised? do you think it actually reaches the people that could be

impacted by that funding? guest: absolutely. we have seen in individual states and cities when they have been able to set up universal pre-k programs and childcare subsidies that would be part of this american families plan, they have a huge success in terms of outcome for children and in terms of getting families interested and having families enrolled. right now, the problem as our caller so eloquently described is that we don't have enough funding to create a demand for these programs. only one in seven families that would be eligible for headstart and federal childcare subsidies actually get that benefit because we don't have enough funding in the system. there is a long line to be served by those programs. the first step is expending the system, -- expending the system.

then they fit -- many families will step up. host: let your from melvin in asheville, north carolina. melvin, make sure to mute your volume. then go ahead and make your comment raster question. caller: i can't mute my phone. host: i apologize, if you can just mute your volume. we will go to stephen in wisconsin. go ahead. caller: i have just one question. i'm not a parent but this is very interesting and thank you both for coming on today. what would be the parents' choices if they do not wish to invest in this opportunity? i will hang up and wait for the

response. host: kerry mcdonald, would you like to respond? guest: the issue is that there is no opting out. if it is a federal program or state program, you are required to pay for it. it comes out of taxation. there is that piece of it. the option for families would be expanded and terms of early childhood education. -- early childhood education if we'd get the government out of early childhood education altogether. we would have a much more robust free-market in in education with no shortages. supply and demand would meet and there would be all kinds of options for families. host: halley potter, would you like to respond? guest: just like with you right now for k-12 education, we would be asking the country to support

this because this is creating a system supporting our next generation of americans. the future of our country, success depends on investing in our children. even if you don't have children or don't want to send your child, this is something we are creating as a public system just as our k-12 education system. the decision of whether or not to send your child to universal pre-k remains a family decision and some families will decide to keep their children at home. that is okay. other families will look for other types of settings. they may look for a pre-k in a home or a private daycare. that is absolutely okay. if we just try to leave early education up to the free market, that is what we're doing now and it does not work. not only is childcare or early indication -- or early education unaffordable for low income

families but also middle-class families. the cost of early education for four-year-olds is $13,000 a year. that is a huge burden to bear. there are many ways we are bearing those costs as a society. too many people who work in low education are earning poverty wages and our government assistance. we can pay for it on the front and an create robust learning programs where we are investing in the workforce and getting strong wages for early educators they deserve and need to create the right environment for children, or we continue having people scraped by josh -- people scraped by because they cannot afford it and we will just keep bearing those costs in society. host: a text from edward in new jersey "what is the average pay for pre-k staff that they needed

to legislate a $15 per hour minimum?" guest: i wish i had that figure off the top of my head. i will tell you early educators are among the lowest paid professions in the country. that is not just in terms of the different types of training early educators have. if you compare folks working in early education compared to teachers teaching kindergarten that have the same credentials, there is a huge cutoff in pay. that is one of the things built into the american families pam -- american families plan is a salary paid. if you are teaching children and have the same potentials as a kindergarten teacher, you should earn as much as a kindergarten teacher does. host: let's hear from linda in connecticut. caller: good morning. i believe education is part of our infrastructure.

if you don't believe that, perhaps we should have our highways and bridges designed by people who don't have education and see how that works. i am the parent of a child with dyslexia. early childhood education was not available to me when he was preschool age. that poor kid was being treated as a discipline problem until i was reading with him one night and realized he had a learning disability. that was not straightened out until he was in third grade. long story short, we worked hard . some wonderful teachers worked with him. he was graded differently. he took his exams with audio and he is now earning a six figure

income and a very successful 41-year-old with two children who pays taxes and is productive. if he would have had early school education, we would have picked up on this sooner. his first three years of school would not have been absolutely miserable. the child was almost put in classes for emotionally -- for being emotionally disturbed if we did not fight for the proper education he needed. as a mother, i cannot tell you how strongly i feel that early education is the most important type of infrastructure we can possibly do for our nation. host: kerry mcdonald, let me go back to the cost of childcare

for families in the country. is there anything you think the federal government should be doing to help families out with that? guest: i think it is a state issue. i agree with linda that we need an education citizenry, the issue is who provides that. i would argue that the free market and the private sector does it better and it should be expanded and not expand the government's education system which is not creating great outcomes for kids, particularly for low income and minority kids. it is a different division of where we are at. i will also make a point that there has been researched and about 80% of today's k-12 schoolchildren attend an assigned district school, only about one third of their parents preferred they are there. most parents would prefer private options instead of a district school.

i think there is a real demand for more options for families in the private sector. as the government gets more involved in education, particularly expanding into early childhood education, those choices will be more limited. host: here is mary in springfield, ohio. caller: my name is mary and i appreciate this. in ohio, four times the ohio supreme court decided the funding of public education was unconstitutional. yet, it continues unchanged. the very fact that the federal government by the u.s. constitution does not have a role in public education or any education program should completely take this off the table. otherwise, they have all

violated their oaths. people have to pay not only property taxes for which they could lose their homes, their farms, their businesses simply because this will decided they wanted a new building or they want to put a new extension or they want to hire more teachers. in ohio, the state auditor found the ohio teachers who were one of the top three paid in the u.s., and yet they are not happy. host: halley potter, would you like to address this? guest: i am not a constitutional scholar but i do feel as other people do where we think about the promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,

that has to include giving children the chance to have any education. that is a bedrock of our society. i know i'm not alone in this. there was a poll released this week that two thirds of americans support expanding universal pre-k and increasing childcare subsidies. host: we will get one more call from eduardo in georgia. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i wanted to say one thing to kerry mcdonald from cato. she talked about how other countries spend less money than we do in education. if you look at our funding for federal, it is only 10%. those countries also have a centralized government and they have better education than we do. to the other lady that just called about the constitutionality, just because

it is not in the constitution does not make it unconstitutional. the pursuit of happiness includes education. host: kerry mcdonald, if you would like a final response. guest: i think they are saying similar things. education may be in the ohio's constitution in mary's -- in the ohio constitution in mary's case and it should be decided more locally. that gives a chance for more innovation. education is not in the purview of the federal government. it is not appear in our founding documents. there is no constitutional role for the federal government in education. host: kerry mcdonald is a scholar at the cato institute and is a fellow at the foundation for economic education. halley potter is a senior fellow

at the century foundation. we appreciate you joining us this morning for the conversation. guest: thanks, bill. host: we continue our focus on education here on "washington journal" this morning. -- david being this with the association of community colleges and will join us for this discussion after the break. ♪ >> listen to the c-span podcast, let's, meet jason hershey, where christians come together on the national mall to worship through music and prayer. book notes+, new episodes are available every tuesday morning. subscriber you get your podcast. there is more at c-span.org /podcasts.

c-span shop.org is the c-span online store with a collection of products and every purchase helps support nonprofit operations. there is contact information for members of congress and the biden administration cabinet. browse newest products at c-span shop.org. >> we are not only trying to do the theoretical work we might be interested in, or the esoteric work like particle physics, but we are trying to confront real-world problems associated with our ability to get our work done. i found myself having to be in expert on racism, sexism in science because i needed to fight for myself and to make

room for myself. in order to feel like a person of conscious and the field, i needed to fight to make room for other people. >> an author on subatomic particles, the mysteries of the universe and her struggles as a black woman in the field of physics. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's "q&a." you can also listen to it as a podcast where you get your podcasts. "washington journal" continues. host: david baime is with us, with policy analysis, vice president, senior vp with the association of community colleges. he is with us to talk about the american rescue plan, president biden's proposal, of two years of free community college prude welcome. guest: good morning, great to be here on behalf of the american association of community colleges to talk about our

support for two free years of community college. we think this is extremely important at this time of economic transition as we try to move out from the pandemic, particularly because community colleges bring people into higher education for those who are least likely to enroll in college and go on from there. host: how many community colleges do you represent? guest: 1044 community colleges across the united states. host: just a look at the most recent figures on the cost to go to community college versus the average four-year college, it's difficult for your university in terms of average cost, $37,650 for a private public four year out-of-state at $27,000 a year and public year -- public four year in-state, 10,000 dollars. community colleges $3770 per year.

community college, 1044 in the u.s., 4.5 billion part-time students, 2.4 million full-time, and the average age for a community college student is 28. how does that shape sort of the way the community colleges not only educate their students, but the help they seek from the federal government in your role? guest: well, given the fact that we have this very diverse group of students, as you mentioned, the average age is 28 years old. we have students who are older than that and we also have many students who are traditional college age, and we also enroll many students who are high school students who take community college courses for credit and what we call dual enrollment students to get a feel for college so they can accrue college credits in advance of enrolling formally in an institution of higher education, so we have the whole gamut of our society to enroll

in community colleges. what that means for institutions is we have to offer a broad array of programs to fit all student needs. we have to offer general education programs for many students who would like to do the first two years of college inexpensively and then move onto a four year institution. we also have programs for people who are in the world of work with family responsibilities who would like to get a skills upgrade or want to do better personally and economically, and we have to offer programs for them that perhaps don't take too long to complete and are offered in such a way as to allow them to mesh their studies at a community college with their other responsibilities. host: what role did the american association of community colleges play in helping the biden administration or giving guidance to the biden administration in developing the

community college plan? guest: we have been longtime advocates of free community college. the first major federal proposal we made was in 2015 by former president obama. we supported legislation at that time and congress was controlled by republicans at that time and president obama's proposal did not move very far. in terms of president biden's proposal, we communicated to presidential candidates, to former president trump, as well as former candidate biden's agenda that this was a high priority for community colleges. across the country, our president see the value of making their institutions more assessable, although, as you mentioned, we are by far the least costly in education. host: it would offer two free years of community college to

all americans, including the dreamers, those immigrants brought here as children, undocumented children brought here as children. it would be the first time for students and workers who would like to rescale and earn a benefit for free and it could be used over three years or four years depending on circumstances. currently, if your student goes to a community college, can you take it advantage of pell grants and other things the federal government offers to assist you with tuition? guest: yes, absolutely, bill. you can take advantage of the pell grant program and other financial assistance programs. starting with the pell grant program, it is an extremely efficient and well targeted program to deliver support for tuition and other expenses that college students have to undertake to help them finance their education. first and foremost is the pell

grant program, which is important to community college students being that most financially needy students across education, but it benefits all students, including those who inspire to go tomorrow expensive institutions and need the financial support. having said that, one of the things that my organization is advocating for is to get some type of additional eligibility for the shorter-term programs, and we know many students do not have the time, frankly, as one of my members puts it, time is the enemy of the students, and they do not have the time to enroll in college for four years or even two years, so they would like to get a skills upgrade that will enable them to move to a higher paying job, and probably they are going to be taking that education while they are already working, so for things like a certified nurse's assistant, a welder, or someone

in i.t. who would like to get that certificate, that way, many of those programs are not eligible for federal aid, so we are asking congress to support this, and congress has a good deal of support for the signed one thing encouraging about it is we have bipartisan support of this, so it is not for the left, the right or anybody, but very much a proposal that appeals to both republicans and democrats. host: that is $109 billion in the biden proposal, with echo directly to states and localities? or does that many go to students in terms of payments for tuition? how does that work? guest: ultimately, the $109 billion would go to students. the way the biden plan has been articulated in the legislation introduced in the house and the senate is that the federal government would provide on average about three dollars for every dollar that the state

provides. essentially, it would be a partnership between the federal and state governments. there would be a total amount of money about $4000 overall that would be provided to states to make community college free. the average tuition and fees played -- paid by students, so the federal government would pay the bulk, but states would be required to also contribute a significant amount of money. one thing that has not gotten as much attention in the discussion is the fact that students who would benefit by this, and that money would ultimately go to students, as to your question, because this would all be in the name of limiting community college tuition, for a limited amount of time, and that is one thing that i don't think people understand, and it is important to recognize this proposal, as you mentioned in your

introduction, require students to advance through community college. i will not go through particulars because the time duration has to do with how intensively they are enrolled, whether taking three or four courses or a full course load, but bottom line is students would not be able to dollop through education and then say we expect you to get the graduation and then exchange for the additional support that it is providing. host: that is an interesting phrase, doddle in education, you think that could be a problem with community college students? guest: what we find is that life gets in the way of our students. the majority of our students, it is now 65% or almost two thirds of our students are enrolled part-time, and in truth, we would love for them to be able to enroll more intensively in community college by taking more courses because the more courses you take, the faster you get

through your degree, and the fewer courses you take, obviously the longer it takes, and statistically speaking, the less likely you are to retain your degree, so one of the beauties of this free community college proposal, as we see it, is by making tuition zero and making the cost burden on students less, that maybe students can take more classes at one time, advance to their degrees more quickly and then either go onto four-year college or get through the workforce more rapidly, so community college students, again, because of their enrollment and the fact they have many commitments for the most part, it has to be said that they have challenges in making it through as quickly as we would like them to. it is not like they are your traditional four-year college student like when i was an undergraduate, where there were many students who enrolled full-time and did nothing but

that for four years as an undergraduate student. it is a great opportunity for people to have if they can afford it, not all can. host: david baime is with us, with the american association of community colleges. if you are in the eastern and central time zones, (202)-748-8000. mountain and pacific, (202)-748-8001. and if you attend or attended community college, that line, (202)-748-8002. let's go first to carl in chicago, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. i attended city college in 1960, and it was only $10 for tuition. i graduated and then went on to get my bachelors and masters. my sister in the 1980's, she went to student college -- city

college. every chance i get, i tried took sling to young people, go to a community college first and then you get to spend money and get pell grant's and wait until you finish the second year. your last few years, go to traditional college. host: carl. guest: that is encouraging to hear. that is the model really of what community colleges supposed to be, where students are able to take their two years of higher education upfront and community college and that affords them the opportunity for the career you ate your sister had by subsequently child -- transferring into a four-year

institution. the point you made is really important, and that is the $10 you paid, may be $10 per credit, but when we talk about free community college, one thing important to remember is in the early days of community college and the early growth was in the 1960's and 1970's, community college had very, very low tuition or no tuition in many places, including most well-known like the state of california that charged zero dollars for many years. the discussion of making community college free reverts back to the concept of free community college associated with these institutions when they were first getting underway, which began really in earnest with the publication of something we call the truman report after world war ii named after former president harry truman, but as i mentioned, the college really started to

explode in terms of numbers sometime after that. host: most community colleges do not have on-campus residents, but why have community colleges, it seems, keep costs in check versus four-year universities and colleges? guest: first thing, community colleges actually have quite a few residential halls. there are very few overall and the terms of number they serve, but almost 200 of our institutions have a residential facility of some kind. the reason why is because students come from all over to attend them. we had a substantial number of international students. some of our colleges, particularly rural colleges, serve tremendous geographical areas. as a result, there is a need for students who would like to study full-time to have a place to live. increasingly, our colleges and building dormitories, as i mentioned, is not a lot in terms of the numbers to take advantage of that, but in terms of how

community colleges are able to keep tuition slow, we do ask more of our faculty in terms of education, the average community teacher teaches five courses and they are paid less then faculty and other sectors of higher education. those two factors are the main reason why our tuitions are able to be so much lower than other sectors. we don't get more government funding than other sectors, we do not spend money on certain aspects of the campuses that some of the four-year colleges do, but basically it is by stretching that funding we get a little bit more broadly that we are able to continue to offer education at a lower cost than four year institutions. host: tony next up in walcott, connecticut. caller: good morning, good morning. i am a full believer in

community colleges. i attended one in the 1970's. i am a simple man doing simple math, and looking at your numbers, $109 billion. i rounded up the number of students, 7 million, i divided that and that is $15,000 per student. plus $15,000 plus for $3700 a year tuitions. what the heck is going on with the rest of that money? is that the cost of administration? what are you doing with the rest of that money? why can't we just give the people at $3700 and cut the cost down? help me understand, thank you. guest: tony, that is a good question. thank you for asking it. you inadvertently stumbled into washington, d.c., budget numbers, and it can be a dangerous case to go because they are looking using. that $109 billion figure is a 10

year figure, so the amount of funding provided on average to community colleges is about $11 billion a year, and that would be matched, as i mentioned a moment ago, by a state contribution between 23 -- two and $4 billion a year, so it would be about $15 million a year or a little less to allow for the free community college tuition, so that is how it is done. in terms of the cost, because the numbers are so large, it is difficult for people to wrap their heads around them. the $11 billion, in terms of federal contributions, that is a whole lot of money without questions, but the $11 billion is about one third of the annual pell grant program, which we talked about a moment ago, which is the fundamental student financial aid program providing

financial support to needy college students. so the pell grant program, as i said a minute ago, is incredibly important across higher education. the community college program would about one third of the cost of the pell grant program each year, so a significant amount of money but not a budget buster by any stretch and in fact a good investment in the future of our country. host: this is oscar in yucca valley, california. good morning. caller: yes, thanks, c-span and thanks, mr. baime. the four-year colleges need to accept more two-year students . hopefully if it is voted in, four year students will realize a lot of their future students will come from two-year colleges, and that will grow four-year universities more and allow the two-year program to be a success. i also think that people mature at different levels and at that

junior college level, you might be ready to accept more of your future planning. i also think these junior colleges become cultural hubs were communities grow around them and expand and bring in different lecturers and so forth and the community benefits. i also think that the benefits to reducing crime and social benefits are huge in this. i also hope that the people who now have available two-year colleges will have more critical thinking skills so we can keep up with the rest of the world, which we are falling behind at a rapid pace, particularly engineering, and if they can build and trade schools for those who do not want to go into more technical training, like my local junior college has a automotive class for example. so it benefits everybody and it

is a catalyst, not an end-all. it is the beginning of expanding local colleges, which will then become more attractive to people, maybe because it is free initially, but then ultimately, it will grow as a cultural center and will benefit people, and money will flow towards four-year universities, as well. host: thanks, multiple points, david baime. guest: yes, well-made, thank you, oscar. i will pick up on a couple. one, it is no accident you are calling from california, the largest community college system in the nation with 116 institutions and enrolls about 2.1 or 2.2 million students every year, so it is a huge system, and it is particularly well integrated into the four-year colleges in california, both california state university's as well as the university of california, as well, so students have very good

pathways into those four-year institutions after they have left community college, so we are very pleased with the general framework in that state. having said that, transfers do not work as well as it ought to in all places. one of the things my association, the american association of community colleges, is taking an equity initiative, making sure that not only do students transfer in good numbers from community colleges, but also all of our students from the very rich gamut of the types of students who attend our institutions are able to make that transition in an easy way because it is an easy transition in many cases. one of the things we know is that when students lose credits in the process of transferring, it is bad in many ways, bad for the students because they end up

paying twice for credits they already took. it is bad for the government because they are paying for money twice supporting them at community colleges and a year college if it is a public one. and it is bad for student success because it is shocking really how many students lose their educational progress when they lose their credits and transfer, so it is absolutely essential the transfer be accommodated as efficiently and effectively as possible. heading back to the biden plan and legislation pending in congress is one of the things we are excited about in that bill is it has a requirement on states in exchange for receiving federal support to make the community college free. the state would have to implement basically a seamless transfer of policies between two-year and four-year public colleges and they would need to be coordination between the two

sectors so the problem i was just discussing is eliminated once and for all. they may be one other thing to mention in terms of good comments is that the role community colleges play as a hub , as a cultural hub, as a place where people from different perspectives can come and meet, and political context to exchange views, it is important in all areas, particularly rural areas where they'r -- where there are not as many opportunities, and also urban settings, community college serves as an integrating force within the community and pulling people together to have a safe place to not only study but also engage and exchange views. we know that at this point in our national life how important that is. host: this is bob in york, pennsylvania. welcome. caller: thank you for taking my call.

i went to a community college and spent four years the air forcei in the late 19n 60's and then was able and understood how important education would be. as i was working full-time, i used the g.i. bill to go to night school, and it took me five years to obtain an associative agree, which i am very proud of. five years down the road, i was able to transfer that degree to a college where i spent five more years going to night school to get my bachelors degree, which has been quite successful. the question i am going to ask, because as being an alumni of a four-year institution and community college, i support and make donations to each one of those schools each year. the question i have about the free community college is, will the students have to complete their certificates or their degrees to obtain this free

status? if they don't, will they have to reimburse the government for that? thank you. host: thanks, bob. guest: thanks, bob, for that question. the answer is that no, students would not have to repay any funds if they did not ultimately require a significant -- certificate or degree. the incentive for them to do that is that there is a limit to the amount of eligibility. it is a waiver, technically speaking in terms of tuition, and a waiver of tuition and fees that the college would otherwise charge them. that is one incentive. what else we like so much about free tuition plan, getting back to other forms of federal assistance of benefits, our students attending other types of institutions is that america's college promise program, free community college, would allow students to use

financial assistance funds to pay for non-tuition expenses, so they would not have them as long as the olive five. it would provide them with a firmer financial grounding to make it through community college. i would like to commend you for contributing to your former community college. i do not know if it was harrisburg coming he college you attended, bob, -- harrisburg community college you attended, bob, but community colleges do not do nearly as well, understated quite substantially, in terms of contributions from students like four-year colleges do. as i mentioned earlier, they are lean and mean colleges, and they need every nickel they can get, so we are putting more of an emphasis on fundraising and working with alumni and encouraging them to contribute. one of the great things about community colleges that is different from other institutions is that students

who take courses there, and graduate there, they stay in their local communities. they are not going away to school to take the job at another city when they have their four-year degree. they go to their local community college and they stay in their local area most times, hopefully in an employment situation better than when they started. some students transfer, but the overwhelming majority stay local. that is one of the reasons why community colleges have the bipartisan support that they do because they are locally focused institutions and legislators from both parties love them because it is their people. it is their constituents. host: next up is lee in rockville, maryland. caller: yes. host: good morning, lee. go ahead. caller: yes, good morning. i am enjoying the discussion.

i taught at three maryland community colleges as an adjunct for 26 years. maryland right next to where you are has a very, very good community college system. the students, 99%, were just real, real go-getters. they want to get their degree, their bachelors degree, and then live the american dream and then make a lot of money in a new career. the problem with the students that i found was very, very few of them have the skills to do any writing or to do any kind of college work. they are looking at their

electronic devices as the be-all and end-all. they are very, very good at writing text messages, but they cannot connect a subject and a verb. host: thanks, lee, i think you made that comment yesterday. david baime, would you like to respond? go ahead. guest: we could all talk about getting our children away from devices, or at least many people who are watching this morning can relate to that issue, but one of the things that community colleges do to address your point, lee, is provide the basic instruction for students who do not have the aptitude when they enter college to develop them in short order to then enroll in credit courses to meet the educational goal they established for themselves. writing is fundamental to being a well-functioning member of our

society. we certainly hope it is in high schools, as well. in some cases, some students who come to the door of community college have not received the instruction or have not been focused like we would like them to be focused, so community colleges, i will not go into details, but community colleges have structured and rigorous programs to allow students to come up to speed quickly by focusing on this shortcoming in their academic preparation, but thank you for all those years you put in to serving as a faculty member at our colleges, and, yes, our maryland system is an excellent system of institutions. host: we will hear from cj next in minneapolis, minnesota. caller: hey, how are you doing? thank you for letting me get in on this conversation. i went to a city college in chicago, a junior king college and i studied heating, air

conditioning and refrigeration. before i went there, i went to a trade school in chicago and then to city college afterwards. the one thing i noticed -- i went to school on the g.i. bill. i was in the navy, so when i went to school on the g.i. bill, i noticed the feeder program in effect back in the 1970's under jimmy carter, it had more people in my classroom on the feeder program than the g.i. bill, and the majority of the people there were minorities, so i strongly believe that city college, and when i got my degree, this was back in the 1980's. i started my own company, which did not turn out to be as good as i thought it was going to be, but i still learned a lot. i really promote city colleges because now, living in minneapolis and since i've been here, i have landed some jobs in

my field. they did not land that long -- last that long, but i felt supported because it got me through a lot of different things. host: things, cj. david baime? guest: thank you, cj. when i was coming on the program, i was reflecting upon all of the people who have interacted with me and who i have come across in my daily dealings, so i have gone -- so those who have gone through community college and benefited from that. one person came to our house last summer when the air-conditioning was gone, and he had gotten a training similar to the one you got, and, you know, that is the kind of job we are proud that we prepare people for, and that is the kind of job that pays pretty darn well if you get into a situation that many are able to. so, that is the kind of program,

the hvac program, that we are very proud of. there are many other programs ranging from nursing programs, cybersecurity training programs, there is a program in eastern missouri, a welding program that i am very familiar with and they do an extremely good job. another thing to mention about the feeder program, it is an old program and it has long been terminated and has evolved into the current program, which is the workforce innovation and opportunity act, and we are grateful leaders in that program, but it is not particularly well-funded. it is funded well below the levels of the former program, and we are asking congress to provide funding for community colleges to do the kind of job training that the previous program did to allow us to work

with employers to create skilled people who can go and work for them immediately and get into good jobs. that is something where we are looking for greater federal support because the equipment that is involved and entailed in those programs makes them more expensive than other kinds of programs. host: i would like to get your response to criticism of the biden proposal on community colleges from forbes contributor christian cooper, in a piece entitled "community college students need that her options, not free tuition." he writes that "free community colleges solves a problem that is not largely existing since they are quite affordable, but it will affect the existing problem such as high student loan defaults." he says "taxpayer should wonder what exactly they are getting from the investment in community college and demand better."

david baime, do you have any response? guest: yes, my organization, the american organization of community college has very different views on all of those points made in the forbes piece. first of all, we believe that affordability does remain a major hurdle for many students. i have heard, as he said this morning, the average community college tuition in fees is 3700 -- administrators will tell you that the smaller financial gaps are a lot less than $3700 from students completing studies, so we expect it to differ on the impact of providing greater financial support for students. in terms of completion rate, how do -- how you look at completion has to do with how you evaluate that. we are always getting our

students to achieve academic goals. for some students and a couple of courses that enable them to improve skills and their employability and then go into the workforce. 60% of our students who start full-time have either gotten a degree, transferred or still enrolled, but about 60% of our full-time students achieve their educational goals. it isn't perfect, it is not the levels of most selected institutions, but it is pretty darn good from our perspective, and as an organization, we sponsor something called a voluntary framework of accountability which uses metrics more relevant to community colleges and capture our institutions in a more complete way. and finally in terms of student debt, and of course, we are all aware of the burden of student debt, the anxiety about student debt, community colleges thing

from their point of view, the best thing is there is no student debt. only one out of six of our students has to take out federal loans to finance our educations because of our low tuitions and we encourage our students to borrow responsibly. the government has good ways to help low income students manage their debt once in repayment, but the best way we feel like dealing with the loan issue is to have them not borrow. we have been remarkably successful in keeping students out of loan programs so that if they continue on and they need to borrow at a four-year college, it is more expensive and they are able to manage and take on the debts. our colleges run pretty tight ships, and we do try to keep the loans away from them from students to the extent they are able to. it is not for every student,

some need to borrow expenses that is acceptable in the government can help them do that. host: our guest is david baime, with the association of american community colleges. thanks for being with us. guest: thank you, bill, for having me. it has been a pleasure to talk about the american association of community colleges. i would like to say that if community colleges did not exist, somebody would have to invent them because mother's day is in a couple of days, i would just like to wish all the mothers out there a very happy mother's day, community college mothers, many of you balance work, studies and raising your families, and we salute you. there was a mother out there in pittsburgh, pennsylvania, happy other state to you. i look forward to seeing you. host: thanks for being here. ahead on "washington journal," we talk about the job numbers out now for april and the unemployment numbers, 266,000

jobs added for the month of april. the unemployment rate rising to 6.1%. we are checking in with you to see how the market looks for you if you are employed, the line to use is (202)-748-8000. and for those unemployed and looking for work, (202)-748-8001 . go ahead and start dialing. we will be back with your calls and comments in a moment. ♪ >> coming up today, the hearing on preventing racial bias by using artificial intelligence, life at noon eastern on c-span. at 6:30 p.m., matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene appear at an event together in florida. on c-span2, the head of u.s. strategic command talks about nuclear modernization efforts, live from the brookings institution at 11:30 eastern. >> american historytv on c-span

3, exploring the people and events that tells the american story every weekend, saturday at 2:00 p.m. eastern on oral history, oliver halley recalls his time as a crewmember in vietnam. saturday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on lectures in history, the american park ulcer and films from the 1970's, with a professor, sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern on oral history, charlotte henry on her experiences as a dog handler with the u.s. air force during the vietnam war. sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on reel america, "a time for peace," documenting president nixon's trip to china, the first-ever by an american president. at 6:00 p.m. eastern on american artifacts, we visit san francisco to hear the story of the chinese in america and toward chinatown. exploring the american story, watch american history tv this weekend on c-span 3.

>> "washington journal" continues. host: we will wrap up the program here, the last 20 minutes or so, hearing from you on the unemployment situation. the unemployment numbers out for april with 266,000 jobs added in the unemployment rate rising to 6.1%. the recording of "the hill" this morning saying the less than expected showing exposed gaps in a recovery that some economists were worried would overheat by recovery to quickly. they were explored thing roughly one million new jobs in the april report and a drop in the unemployment rate. some firms projected increases as high as $1.3 million, writes "the hill," and march's blockbuster figure was revised more than 15% to 770,000 from 916,000. some quick reaction from capitol hill. democratic jeffries says there

were more jobs created during the first 100 days of joe biden's presidency than during any other administration in history. build back better. also from don bier, democrat from virginia, "you need the american jobs plan." lee selden, republican from new york, "this terrible jobs report is to serve as an important reminder that jacking up taxes right now on job creators will absolutely only make the situation worse." john patrick maloney, "we are delivering what americans want and need. we put shots in arms, checks in pockets and people in jobs. now it is time for the next phase in i recovery, the american families plan, we are going to rebuild the backbone of this country, the middle class." senate republicans on the jobs numbers, this is not the time to raise taxes. unemployment is paying people more to stay home then to work.

that is a disincentive to work, they say. the likely next house republican conference chair says, "i have heard from many small businesses across the new york 21st district to cannot find enough workers due to the president and speaker pelosi's socialist unemployment benefits, and trillions in uncontrolled spending." and jake sherman in "punch will news," much drama in the house republican leadership. the louisiana governor has complained about the field being clear for her and questioned her conservative credentials. we will take your comments on unemployment, (202)-748-8000 if you are employed. (202)-748-8001 if you are unemployed but looking for work. if you are unemployed but you

have stopped looking for work, that line, (202)-748-8002. and for all others, it is (202)-748-8003. you can go ahead and start dialing. we will get to your calls and comments momentarily. on that likely vote next week in the republican conference on liz cheney, this is the recording this morning of the "new york times," "cheney's replacement completes trump's lies as the party looks ahead." the house republicans have made the case for ousting representative liz cheney, their number three, from leadership ranks. they have insisted that it is not a repudiation of former republican president donald j. trump's election lies that they find untenable but her determination to be vocal about it. on thursday, representative elise stefanik, republican leaders have anointed her as ms. cheney's replacement in waiting,

loudly resurrected his false narratives, citing unprecedented, unconstitutional overreach by election officials in 2020 and endorsing an audit in arizona. that has become the latest avenue for conservatives to try to cast doubts on the result, "it is important to stand up for these constitutional issues. these are questions that are going to have to be answered before we head into the 2020 midterms," elise stefanik told stephen bannon, mr. trump's former strategist in a pair of interviews on thursday with acolytes of the former president. these comments, the comments, her first in public since she announced she was taking on ms. cheney, reflected how central the former president selection lies have become to the republican party message. even as leaders insist they are determined to move beyond them and focus on attacking democrats as radical big spending socialists before the 2022 midterm elections.

onto our discussion about unemployment and the job market, we hear from dave in greenville, tennessee. you are first up. go ahead. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. host: you bet. caller: it looks as if the unemployment numbers are moving back toward pre-covid levels. joe's policies are interfering. host: ok, to candy -- ken in richmond, kentucky. go ahead. caller: good morning, sir. thank you. an opinion, of course, but i think what the unemployment benefits, how they conflict with the unemployment is that i think the unemployment is underpaying, and it goes with the people talking about a raise of $15 an hour minimum wage, i think if there was a $15 minimum wage, the unemployment problem would go away.

in other words, if i am looking into service and going into business, and i'm only making seven dollars to nine dollars an hour, what this is telling us is that the minimum wage and the wage people make in the jobs they are talking about is insufficient. if the salary was a livable salary, and i am not talking republican or democrat, just as an american worker, if the salary was there, they would not be on unemployment or have the government subsidy, then they would work and have a livable wage. in other words, i think what this is doing is real or seen that a minimum wage -- is reinforcing that the minimum wage and what we pay americans is too low. thank you, sir. i will listen to comments. host: the job data for april, 266,000, and then they revised the numbers from march, down

from 990 to 770. a deeper dive into some of the numbers on twitter, equitable growth treats this, they say the proportion of unemployed workers who were out of work for fewer than five weeks increased in april. setting the recent trend of increasing long-term unemployment. also saying that unemployment rates were little changed among most racial and ethnic groups and remain persistently high for black and latino workers. they say the unemployment rate for workers with less than a high school degree increased to 9.3% in april and 8.2% in march while the labor force dissipation also declined for this group of workers -- participation also declined for this group of workers. this one working from home shows dramatic the, in related news, fewer people working from home due to the pandemic in april than in previous months. (202)-748-8000 if you are

employed. (202)-748-8001 if you are unemployed and looking for work. if you are unemployed and stop looking for work, (202)-748-8002 . all others, (202)-748-8003. it is quite own a in plainfield -- it is winona in plainfield, vermont. caller: good morning. i want to quickly tell you that i started watching and listening to you about a month ago in a conscious effort to reduce the biases in my news to listen to what people are saying, and i'm really enjoying it. 18 you to know that. host: glad you are tuning -- i wanted you to know that. host: glad you are tuning in. caller: i might even buy a hoodie i decided today. [laughter] i have been out of work for over a year now, and i did take the opportunity when we were still getting the extra $600 to do all the coursework i needed to do to

get my vermont teaching license reinstated because when i lived in florida, i let it lapse, whatever. so i am looking for work, but i am really concerned because starting at the end of next week in vermont where i live, we have to start doing the research is and it is important to me that i teach english, which is what all my coursework is in and what my license is, and i am concerned i may have to take something that i would not be as happy at and i do not want to sound spoiled, but for me in this point in my life, jobs become toxic for me if it is not the right fit. i am a little nervous, but i think i'm ready to get back to work. i don't know about my daughter. host: when you say you have to do the three job searches to stay on unemployment, is that it? caller: yeah, and that has been suspended.

we have a great governor here and it has been nice, and it isn't like i have not looked, but until biden passed the last bill, there were no jobs, and i just knew there was a great need, but there was no money. there was no money to hire anyone, and they were dying for subs, but subbing is not teaching. at that point, i did not want to put my health at risk. host: thanks for your call, and things for listening. william in enid, oklahoma. good morning. go ahead. caller: yes, sir. i called, i was trying to text message, so i have a concept on a social movement that will bring the country back together. host: ok. caller: ok? so, my concept is the art

movement, the art movement, and it is all races together, so they have a lot of movements, individual movements. separating the country and taking the country apart, so my movement will bring everybody back together. so, i was going to submit that to you, but i ended up on live tv. host: thank you for that. some news from "the associated press." they report that a federal grand jury has indicted the former police officer involved in george floyd's arrest death, accusing them of violating a black man's constitutional right as he was restrained, face down on the pavement and gasping for air. that is from "the associated press." (202)-748-8000 the line for those of you who are employed. (202)-748-8001 unemployed and looking for work. (202)-748-8002 if you are

unemployed and stopped looking for work area open for the wall street journal" story on the fcc's broadband plan, aliens of fake comments on fcc plan -- millions of fake comments on fcc plan, nearly 8 million filed with the federal communications commission on the proposal to scale back internet regulation, fueled by opponents and supporters of the role. an investigation by the new york attorney general's office found that a report highlighted companies that specialized in a little-known influence industry that generates made-up comments and often attaches the names of real people caught up in marketing ploys. the 18 million fake comments represented more than 80% of all the public comments filed to the fcc on its net neutrality proposal four years ago. "the wall street journal"

further writes that about 8.5 million of those fake comments came to the fcc derived from a $4.2 million campaign paid for by broadband for america, and advocacy group funded by the nation's top internet providers in an effort to dump net neutrality. the obama era policy on equal treatment internet traffic, broadband for america, and a lobby is listed on the tax forms did not respond to emails or phone calls. in jackson heights, new york, we go to kingsley. good morning, go ahead. caller: thank you for having me. i am a social worker in new york, so i can tell you that people who are on the lower income scales are really out of work. they are suffering. they have no employment opportunities, so i think if you will -- i think hearing the jobs report this morning, the american people have to be given

the opportunity to expand and build out. we have been in covid over a year or so, so you cannot expect the economy to roar back after being so long suppressed. also, i also want to say, what do republicans stand for? i am frightened to death about these people getting into power and implementing their authoritarian policies. i am afraid, so i would love to hear some of your callers speak on that, thank you. host: kevin mccarthy, the republican leader weighing in on the jobs number says this, "today's jobs report is a disappointment, just like president biden's plan to burden families with more taxes and more debt." " while democrats struck people in a cycle of fear and pay them not to work, it is clear the best thing to do is to end the crisis era policies and get

americans back to work." next in rockville, maryland, tony. good morning. tony, go ahead. caller: we were fortunate enough not to let anybody off but now that things are coming back to life, we are having a really tough time. [indiscernible] host: tony, you are breaking up on us. you are having a tough time finding people to work? last tony in rockville. sorry about that, tony in rockville. this is marco rubio, senator in florida tweeting about the jobs number and says, "why is anyone surprised at the jobs report fell short of expectations? i told you weeks ago that in florida, i hear from small businesses every day. they cannot hire people because the government is paying them not to go back to work."

that is from florida senator marco rubio. a minute or two for your calls. if you would like to call, (202)-748-8000. we will get one more call hear from jennifer in oak park, illinois, go ahead. caller: hi, so thank you for letting me call. i kind of wanted to talk about the restaurant industry because i see a few different papers that mentioned it. i live in chicago, so it has also been on the news and they keep being like why? why is this happening? no one is coming back to work, and, like, oh, you are lazy and just when unemployment. but to think about it, if we are staying at home for $300, i mean, it is like $1000 for the cheapest apartment in the city, so that would not pay your bills but just the idea if someone said that would be unbelievable. that is how little you get paid, and our jobs are worthless to

these people pretty get fired for not going out with your manager, guests, calling in sick. so, i don't know. host: how long have you been involved in the restaurant industry? caller: over 20 years. caller: over 20 years. post: are you still working in restaurants. caller: since covid i have not been working and i'm a bartender and restaurants get really hot. but with the mask, i have asthma and i did not want to be doing that. and, the people coming in are such jerks. yelling at you about the masks and staff, so i am kind of glad i am in real estate school, i just enrolled. so i have been trying to get out of the restaurant industry because of this. it is almost like a lot of us could get out because of what happened.

host: jennifer, thank you for calling in with your experience. it is a topic we will talk about in terms of not being able to find enough workers at many businesses across the country. that will do it for this morning's program. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern, and we hope you are too. thank you for joining us. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> i