talk about the federal jobs report. at 9:15, katie reilly looks at how the pandemic affected the college education process. >> do you believe hampled unemployment benefits have hampered a return to work in some categories? >> no, immeasurable. >> by all accounts yesterday's labor report was a surprise and disappointment. 266,000 jobs added in april, not the one million some analysts anticipated and a slight rise in the unemployment rate in april to 6.1%. president biden in response said more help is needed to help the jobs market and economy bounce back from the pandemic but others, including

many republicans, think the government's extended unemployment benefits are part of the big problem or are a big part of the problem keeping too many out of the work force. good morning, it's saturday, may 8, 2021. welcome to washington journal. this first hour we'll ask you about that. are those unemployment benefits a disincentive to work. here are the lines if you're unemploy employed currently, 202-748-8000. if you're currently working, 202-748-8001. for employers, it's 202-748-8002. we'd like to hear about how it's been to hire workers and send you a text, on twitter at cspanwj and look for your posts at facebook.com/c-span. we'll play more from president

biden out the april jobs number. here's the reporting from "the wall street journal" on that. unemployment benefits become a target amid hiring difficulty and say the lackluster jobs report friday added fuel to efforts in florida and elsewhere to reduce access to unemployment benefits that some state and industry leaders say have kept people from returning to the work force. the country is in a striking predicament with millions unemployed and businesses that can't find enough people to hire at current wages. the mismatch prompted several states including florida, montana and north carolina to tighten reporting requirements to receive unemployment benefits and shut off payments to people who turn down work. they say in some cases states are ending access to federal pandemic unemployment payments. the u.s. chamber of commerce called to an immediate end to adds 300 a week to a federal jobless supplement. that's from "the wall street journal." and inside that article there are more details on how that

extended relief and how long that extended relief will last. under federal release plans those receiving jobless benefits get a $300 a week on top of regular state benefits nearly doubling the average of $318 a week according to the labor department and that means the average unemployment recipient earns better than the equivalent of working full time at $15. those enhanced benefits are available until september. some employers and economists say the enhanced payments are one factor affecting job growth and the u.s. chamber of commerce on friday asked for policymakers to end the additional benefits. here's what the chamber said, the chamber vice president neil mcbradley said in his statements and he said the disappointing jobs report makes it clear paying people not to work is dampening what should be a stronger jobs market. one step policymakers should take now is ending the $300 weekly supplemental

unemployment benefit and based on the chamber analysis the $300 benefit results in him those taking home more in benefits than in working. your thoughts on those extended benefits, are they a disincentive to work? if unemployed, 202-748-8000, if employed, 202-748-8001 and for those of you who are employers, 202-748-8002. we'll read some stories about what it's like working for workers and let's hear more from president biden after his comments came out at the white house. [video clip] president biden: we came to the office facing a once in a decade pandemic and economic crisis and knew it wouldn't be a sprint but would be a marathon. quite frankly, we're moving more rapidly than i thought we

would. this morning we learned that our economy created 266,000 jobs in april and hadn't been adjusted again yet but that's what it says, 266. listening to commentators today, as i was getting dressed, you might think we should be disappointed. but when we passed the american rescue plan, i want to remind everybody, it was designed to help us over the course of a year, not 60 days. a year. we never thought that after the first 50 or 60 days everything would be fine. today there's more evidence that our economy is moving in the right direction. but it's clear we have a long way to go. all told, our economy has added more than 1.5 million jobs since i took office, the most number of jobs created in the first three months of any presidency in our history. just for perspective, in these three months before i got here, the economy added about 60,000

jobs a month, not half a million. in the three months since i've been here, the economy has added 500,000 jobs per month. and this is progress. and it's a testament to our new strategy of growing the economy from the bottom up and the middle out. host: president biding reacting to the jobless reports, the report came out showing 266,000 jobs added for the month. are the extended federal benefits a disincentive to work, 202-748-8000, if currently unemployed 202-748-8002 if you're working and for employers, 202-748-8002. we'll get to your calls in a moment. montana is one of the states ending the extended benefits in that state. here's the reporting of msnbc,

the montana governor ends unemployment payments citing worker shortage. another quote, montana is open for business but i hear through too many employers throughout our state who can't find workers, nearly every sector in our economy faces a labor shortage. extensions matter and the vast extension of federal unemployment benefit is now doing more harm than good. let's get to calls in orme under beach, florida. first up -- ormand beach, florida. first up is steve. caller: thanks for taking my call. i think the notion that americans are not looking for jobs because they're receiving unemployment is ridiculous. people work. it's in our d.n.a. there are people who maybe have a mental illness or are struggling with a substance abuse problem but i think it's way less than 1%. but i think the real problem is a lot of these people who have

been working full time and struggling got a first taste of what it's like to actually make ends meet and these employers who are saying oh, i can't get workers because they're getting unemployment and don't want to come to work, well, there's another factor in here. i live here in volusia county, florida. there's a few manufacturing plants and there's a lot of retail. and the manufacturing plants, they hire people under a staffing agency between $9 and $10 an hour. a lot of the retail workers here make between $9 and $10 when the starting rent on an amendment is $1550 a month for a one bedroom. they're making the same wage as i was making as an entry level employee back in 1979 when milk was $1.10 a gallon and you

could rent a two bedroom apartment for $225 a month. that's my comment, thank you. host: kevin is unemployed calling from brown field, texas. hey there. caller: hey, i'm actually disabled vet. host: are you looking for work or have not been able to find work or what's the status? caller: no, just not looking for work. i mean, what work am i going to look for? host: ok. do you have a thought on the general topic about these extended benefits for those unemployed? caller: yeah, i think it's a good thing. what were they going to do, right? host: all right. a caller from tucker, georgia, hey there, jim. caller: good morning, bill.

thanks to taking my call. i hope you're well. host: thank you. caller: i am employed now. i was unemployed for a brief period of time late last year. and my experience was that -- and it's not clear to me what the timing of this federal -- of these federal benefits, supplementry benefits were in place. i never got them. and so i think the georgia department of labor is a little bit -- they're not a little bit but a lot overwhelmed. it was, gosh, i don't think i didn't get a call back on my claim for i think it was about six months. host: six months after you filed the claim you got a callback? caller: right, right. fortunately i had found other work in that period of time so

i was able to, you know, work it all out. but, you know, if i hadn't, oh, my goodness. i don't know what i would have done. so with the pandemic, maybe it's just part of what all the departments of labor have to put up with. i have a friend in california who had a similar situation, i don't know the exact details, but the thing is i never got the federal money. i just got the state money. this was i think back in late november or december, so i think maybe -- and that's part of my frustration with the media is they're not very clear on oh, well these benefits have run for this period of time and they're going to redo it for this period of time. i've heard a little bit of that but not very much so i don't have good visibility into when those benefits were available

to people like me. so yeah, my experience with it was not very good but fortunately i found some work and everything's ok. host: you said you didn't get any additional federal extended unemployment benefits, did you get the stimulus checks, any of the stimulus checks that were issued last year in 2020 or the ones earlier this year? caller: yes. and they help but still not having -- the stimulus check is a one-time shot. the unemployment is ongoing. so you know, the stimulus check might have been helpful for a month or two but the ongoing benefits of the unemployment are really critical if you're out of work and have trouble finding a job. host: hang on a second and listen in on -- you asked about this. this is a capsulized version of what the benefits are. this is from forbes.

the source of the data is from forbes. basically here's how it breaks down. there's $300 of additional federal unemployment benefits per week on top of whatever your state payments are and available for those claim twg march 14 of this year and september 6 of this year. it's down from the $600 per week that was extended from last year's cares act, the latest in terms of the federal unemployment, the additional federal unemployment measures offered. south carolina, next up, we hear from tom. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i would just like to make a real quick comment. i'm unemployed and i'm in an age group, i'm 80 years old and i will tell you, my friend, us older individuals have a lot, lot, lot to offer employers. i have applied for any number

of jobs from driving little buses to working in restaurants or whatever, and i just have to say, you know, when they see me with my gray hair and my age, they're not interested. i've got a -- i'm telling you, there are thousands of older individuals out here who would love to have a job. i would love to have a one. i don't care what it is. pay me $9, $10, $11 an hour and i'll do most anything you want me to do, take out your garbage, do whatever, but people are just -- employers are just not interested in people like us. we've given -- host: what's the sort of reaction you get? when you go and apply for something in person in particular if you do that, what's the reaction? you said you're 81 years old it. do they come out and say you're too old for this job?

caller: no, they can't do that, that's against the law but there's always different ways they can look at it. they ask me when i graduated from high school. well, that was in 1960. so how does the numbers work out? they obviously know i'm an older individual and then they are not interested. i got a -- host: tom, did you retire from a previous career, a previous job? caller: i'm sorry? host: did you retire from a previous job, you were in a career and now just want to continue working because you like the work and you need the money? caller: i'm retired. i had a gainful employment for almost 30 years and then i got retired and ever since then, i've been looking for any kind of work. yes, i would love to work. i don't care what they pay me, just give me something to do for god's sake. host: tom, appreciate you calling in this morning. we're asking you about the

extended unemployment benefits, this in the after math of the release of those jobless numbers yesterday. this is the hill, some reporting this morning, republicans attacked by an agenda after a disappointing jobs report and republicans are seizing on disappointing data to argue president bidens' spending and tax plans are already causing a slowdown in the economy and friday's job report showed employers added 266,000 jobs in april, far below expectations, could pose a chal phoning biden as he seeks to enact his proposals for $4.1 trillion for spending and tax increases on wealthy individuals and corporations. people were already opposed to the plans and now the lawmakers are having a new line of attack hoping to resonate with others. looking at the comments by members including the minority whip in the house, steve sca lease, here's what he defeated

yesterday after the jobs report. he said this, today's jobs number is terrible but no surprise p. joe biden is paying people not to work, siding with teacher unions refusing to reopen schools so parents can't go back to work and sending weak science commercials about returning to normal. and a woman from massachusetts said don't think that the checks aren't creating a work stoppage. from kansas, intro monday when the senate returns from recess to repeal the enhanced unemployment benefits and encourage americans to return to work. from smor bernie sanders, independent senator, no, we don't need to end the $300 benefits workers desperately need. we need to end zambation in america. if $300 a week is preventing employers from hiring, here's a

simple solution, raise your wages, pay decent benefits. from lansing, michigan, on the employed line, this is charles. go ahead. caller: hello? host: you're on the air. go ahead, charles. caller: yeah, hello? host: you're on the air. go ahead. caller: yeah. i happen to be employed, ok. what i see going on here is the unemployment benefits being handed out by the fabulous people in d.c. needs to end because it's the same old trick, supply and demand. there's a supply of jobs but the demand of workers ain't there because everyone is home collecting unemployment and welfare. the thing is when these benefits run out, the jobs won't be there. host: rick is in eerie, pennsylvania.

hi, rick. caller: hi, i am an employer. you know, this $300 a week, let's really put it in -- that's $15,000 a year. why would i want to even go to work? because on top of that i get my unemployment benefits included, which is this a way they're trying to make the basic living wages? and then the guy who says -- or these politicians will say just raise your wages. well, you know what's going to happen, is how much do you really want to pay for a meal when you go out to eat? $25 an hour, $30 an hour? so in turn that puts that right out of reach out of most americans. host: what kind of business do you run, rick? caller: plumbing. host: do you have to hire? have you hired somebody recently? caller: we look for people

every day and start around $12, $15 an hour, in that window. that $15 an hour is very hard. erie right now has 2600 jobs available for people looking for workers and you can't find the workers because they don't -- there's no incentive to work. the democrats -- i don't know if it's the democrats, let's just say the politicians, it could be both sides, they're looking for that basic wage and this money we're giving out, i mean, our great grandchildren, nobody thinks about who is going to pay that bill. it's great i'm getting all this free money but you've got to get back to work. i mean, that's what america is all about is working hard, raising your kids and doing a good job. it's just this money they're giving out is unbelieveable. host: selector, next up, silver spring, maryland. on the unemployment line.

caller: i am retired but i've run into a little bit of a situation here. i need to get my a.c. looked at, maintenance, and i watts told i wouldn't be able to have a technician come out until july of this year but they would call me if somebody canceled, so i'm keeping my fingers crossed. and as for biden, the biggest idiot democrats ever nominated, you don't stimulate the economy from the bottom up where people don't have money. you start from the top down. host: reaction on social media on twitter, year at c-spanwj. this one says people don't want to work low wage jobs because they're afraid to catch covid. mark says this man is spot on there. is age discrimination going on all over the country. it's more about image and having young managers who hire their peers.

it's a culture war. jim in williamsport, if $300 is preventing workers, then the sluge would be to pay a livable wage or flip your own burgers. disappointing jobs report should be incentive to jump on good infrastructure plan for house of representatives and senate. instead they're on vacation. henry mcmaster, you're the governor of south carolina, will cut benefits in june. business owners are begging people to come back to work in charleston. the reason is clear why former employees won't return and due to the attractiveness of unemployment benefits. it's a big news item here due to the impact on hospitality industry and other industries affected as well says steve in charleston, south carolina. this one says there's no shortage of labor but a shortage of living wages. in plymouth, connecticut, we hear next from paul. go ahead. caller: good morning. what a conversation. there's so much resentment. this is a resentment society.

they resent people. this is a bipartisanship effort. i'm self-employed. now there's a distinction because self-employed people never paid into the system but the federal lawmakers decided that it was better to keep those people at home. the government shutdown my retail venues. i'm an antique furniture restorer, ok? never paid into the system. however, i had a choice to make. either small business loan or unemployment route. i took the route last year late, all right. they decided to stimulate the economy through that system. why should we constantly bail out, as we did in the bank meltdown. why should we bail out the big people and the little people

get nothing? this is not about party politics. host: thanks for your comment. this from yahoo!, finance their web line, a rejection of claims unemployment benefits are keeping workers on the sidelines. here's what the treasury secretary janet yell00 to say about our topic this morning. [video clip] >> i don't think the addition to unemployment compensation is really the factor that's making a difference. there's no question that we're hearing from businesses that they are having difficulty hiring workers. over 300,000 workers, i point out, were added this last month in leisure and hospitality. which is the most badly affected sector. but, you know, when we look across states or sectors or across workers, and if it were

really the extra benefits that were holding back hiring, you'd expect to see either in states or for workers or in sectors where the replacement rate due to u.i. is very high, you'd expect to cee loer job finding rates. and in fact what you see is the exact opposite. you know, we've had a very unusual hit to our economy. and the road back will be somewhat bumpy. we have to expect that. there are a variety of bottlenecks that are also relevant. so we've seen motor vehicle production shut down in some places because of the shortage of semiconductors, there was a loss of jobs there this month. there were setbacks in the lumber industry because of shortages there. so you know, starting up an economy again, trying to get it back on track after a pandemic

in which there are a lot of supply bottlenecks is going to be, i think, a bumpy process. but i really don't think the major factor is the extra unemployment. host: we mentioned a number of states changing their unemployment benefit structure, some ending it. we mentioned montana talked about the one comment about south carolina. this is from georgia, the headline in the "atlanta journal-constitution." the georgia labor commissioner, look for work or risk losing unemployment benefits. they say some georgia employers are having trouble finding workers prompting a warning from the state department of labor, soon those receiving unemployment benefits will have to prove they're trying to get a job or ruske losing payments. the requirement has been suspended during the covid-19 pandemic which led to thousands of georgians losing their jobs and many businesses curtailing closing. but jobless rates are down 28% from a week ago in the week ending may 1.

let's go to kevin in greenville, texas. go ahead. who is unemployed. caller: hey, buddy, how are you doing tonight? host: doing fine, kevin. caller: good. hey, i'm a pipe welder and run my own truck and work in refineries, power plants, all the above. one of the biggest problems is i got laid off in may of last year. i didn't go back to work until pretty much march of this year. it wasn't for the fact i wasn't looking, there were no jobs to be had. the jobs that were out there the employers marked it down so much it cost more to be on the job sites because we travel to do it. and you know, it was more of, you know, you were spending more money trying to do work than you were making. everyone is talking about the unemployment rate and all the above. i've got hundreds of friends

that are still sitting at home right now trying to find jobs because unemployment is the only thing that pays close enough to what they used to make to where they can still pay their bills. now we could all get up and go to work for $8 an hour somewhere and lose the money but that's where the whole differential on this is. you get up and go to work for $8 or $10 and work 40 hours a week and bring home $600. you could sit at home on unemployment and make $832 a week. the unemployment they're giving you isn't a bad thing. the unemployment that they're giving you as far as if you never made the kind of money that plant and welding operations and all the above made. that's where everything gets to be all up on it.

i worked where they were paying their employees at mcdonald's like $15 and $8 an hour and you pay $26 for a double quarter pounder and large fry and large dr. pepper and apple pie. that's no lie. i still have a receipt in my truck and can email it to you if you want to see it. host: typically as your work as a welder what do you make an hour? caller: i make anywhere from $35 to $48 an hour. it is a double time job where after 8:00, you make double $48 or you make double $35. host: you mentioned you were unemployed for a while last year, partly because of the pandemic but have you also been affected by the energy industry in general and in particular some of the energy problems that texas went through this past winter with the freeze in that state?

caller: most of my work, like i said, i do a lot of refinery work, specialty welding titanium, etc., etc. one of my biggest problems that we've had is jobs being put off because they don't know what the economy is going to do. do. wages are going down. i found a job. i worked for this same company, at the same plant two years ago. i made it nine dollars an hour more two years ago, at 19 -- in 2019 then i am making now. -- van i am -- than i am making now. host: (202) 748-8000 if you are unemployed. (202) 748-8001 if you are

employed. for employers, (202) 748-8002. michelle is working in upper marlboro, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i think that the issues are complicated and it is disappointing and disheartening to hear people demonize the unemployed. my daughter was unemployed last year for about four months. she never got the check until after she found another job, because we were living together, her living situation -- she had given up her apartment during covid so we could pod in our house together. i think that people are finding ways to deal with unemployment and i don't think it is a -- true, there are a few people out there that are making more money off of unemployment then when they were working. but to -- than when they were

working. but to take and expand on that small group of people and broad stroke it to all of those people that are unemployed is wrong and unfair. most people are trying to figure out how to make ends meet. rent is high, food is high, gas is high. and for the guy that called in saying somebody is making $15,000 extra a year, yeah, before taxes and transportation. before costs to make a lunch and a sandwich. they are probably netting 5000 extra dollars per year. would he live off of the 5000 extra dollars a year? that is no money. most people were making these claims would not live off of the money they are suggesting that all of these other people should live off of. i am employed and i will tell you, for me to find a job, because i am a contractor, i

have spent countless hours sending out hundreds, hundreds literally, of resumes to get one interview. one interview out of sending out hundreds of resumes. this is the problem that people are facing. it is not that they aren't looking. they are looking. it is hard and it does not matter whether you have a degree. i have an mba, or an undergraduate degree or no degree, it is hard to find work. to suggest that these few bad apples that are sitting on their tails at home making more money, ok, fine and good. that is a few bad apples. don't paint the whole bunch as lazy and looking for government handouts. we need these infrastructure plans. businesses need to rethink how they pay people. it is a shame that what we make

today is comparable to what my mom and dad made back in the 1970's and 1980's and it is still supposed to be considered good money, yet we have inflation that is way above where it was 20 to 30 years ago. somebody making $65,000, $80,000 a year? that is supposed to be good money? my dad was making that as a machinist back in the 1970's and 1980's. we have to rethink this wage thing. it is wrong. host: we go to catherine next on the unemployment line, in ohio. good morning. caller: i am not unemployed, i am retired. i am 73 years old. my issue is people cannot live on the wagers -- wages that employers want to pay. if you have to put a roof over your head and you are a family of four and one of you makes

$600 a week, you are living below the poverty level. you cannot find a place to live. you can't buy groceries. and if you come off of unemployment and ago on a part-time minimum-wage job, you lose the benefits for your children. your children need insurance. these employers, they are not offering health and welfare. they want you to come in and work three hours a day. if you own a restaurant and you are trying to hire somebody for three hours a day, the way it used to be when i was a young person, the man who owned the restaurant, his wife worked in the restaurant. his children worked in the restaurant. now, his wife has a job at a lawyers's office and his children, they have gone through college and they don't live in the states. so, he is trying to hire

part-time, minimum-wage employees. that is over. if you are an employer and you need somebody to work, then you have to offer them a wage that they can live on and something where they can have a roof over their head, transportation. i live in the county. there is zero transportation. you either have a car and that means you have to have insurance . you have to have a car that actually runs and it is difficult at part-time minimum-wage hours that -- to have a vehicle that will actually run. you have to have a certain amount of money to get to and from work. if you have children, you have to feed them. host: a lot to think about. president biden with some of his response to the jobs numbers coming out for april. part of his response was that it proves that his proposed american rescue plan is needed.

pres. biden: some critics said we did not need the american rescue plan. that this economy would just heal itself. today's report just underscores my view how vital the actions we are taking our. checks for people who are hurting, support for small business, for job care in school reopening. support for families putting food on the table. decline is steep and we still have a long way to go. today's report puts some truth to some loose talk that we have been hearing about the economy lately. first, that we should stop helping workers and families for fear of overheating the economy. this report reinforces the real truth. for years, working people and middle platte -- middle-class people, people who built this country, have been left out in

the cold. struggling to keep their heads above water while those at the top have done very well. we are still digging out of an economic collapse that cost us 22 million jobs. let me say that again. it cost us 22 million jobs. when we came in, we inherited a year of profound economic crisis and mismanagement on the virus. we proposed -- what we proposed is going to work. we will get to 70%. it is also going to take focus. commitment and time to get the economy moving again as we want it to move. host: president biden, yesterday. you can send us a text on your thoughts about the on benefits. that line is (202) 748-8003. tell us where you are texting from. this one says i am an unemployed woman who was sent home from her job at the beginning of the

covid-19, due to my pregnancy. after i delivered my son, my company had 22 cases of covid. my daughter decided to keep me -- my doctor decided to keep me home an additional 12 months to keep me safe. i have car insurance, white bills, wi-fi and personal items that have to be paid with the extra $300. without that $300, i get $132. how am i supposed to pay bills with $132? make it makes sense -- make it make sense. i need the extra $300 so i can take care of myself, children and household. some of us actually need it. it is not fair to be taken away because some folks think we can just go to work while there is sickness that is killing us. my aunt died from the spires -- this virus. my unemployment is needed. the view of the wall street journal on this issue, and

economy does not live by demand alone, they say. there is no clearer evidence of that than friday's surprising jobs report which underscored the expectation of economists by more than 700,000 dollars. welcome to the supply side jobs slow down. employer's added a net of 260 6000 jobs in april while the on employment rate to cup .1%. payroll for march and february were revised down a combined 78,000 and 48,000 of new jobs in april were in government. mostly education as schools reopen. pave the country in government cash, keep interest rates at zero and the rise in consumer demand will drive everything great they have underestimated the supply chain constraints that have been screaming across

the economy for months. the economy cannot produce enough goods and services fast enough to meet the soaring demand from the pandemic. it has shoveled cash to consumers and rewarded americans for not working. to kenneth in virginia. caller: the enhanced unemployment benefits do not descend to vice the need -- dissent of eyes -- decentivise the need to work. [indiscernible] they won't allow you to get the benefits. i have not received benefits for seven weeks.

i got this ridiculous issue. this is a democrat estate. [indiscernible] -- a democrat state. [indiscernible] i don't see it. they have low-wage positions which pay nothing. they are extraordinarily indifferent. host: to jim in grand forks, north dakota on our employee line. caller: hey.

how is everybody doing out there? host: we are well. thank you. caller: i wanted to say i am a little positive. i lost my job for different reasons, some personal reasons. about 1.5 weeks ago, i went to north dakota job service, which is on south washington street. there were helpful ladies down there. i am not a big computer guy. i am 57. i grew up in savannah, in a rural area -- in pennsylvania, in a rural area and did farming work. i was behind the eight ball a little bit. like the one lady was saying about putting resumes out there, you still walk into a plant or a construction office around here and have a paper application. someday, that will be gone forever. the bad thing about that here,

there is a drift in different types of trades in my life. the most important thing in my life has been making an impression. you have to get into that office. i was always able to sell myself. i learned how to sell myself. it is a bummer now because you send out these electronic resumes and nobody sees you. you are just a number. i got a job at a large plant. i won't say which one. it is a higher wage, two or three dollars more now than what i was getting. they are desperate. they had a banner on the side of the building that said immediate interviews. they did no background checks. i had to get a drug test. they begged me to work there. i had another call from a place,

it was too far outside grand forks, 40 miles round-trip. they were paying 13 dollars to $14 an hour a few years ago. i wanted to address the guy from south carolina, real quick. i believe it is not true that when you get older, over 50, you can't get a job. i came out here, got my ass kicked and went back to grand forks. when you are 50 and looking half decent, they love you. that you up because you have skills and work in different trades. you have the ability to communicate and you have soft skills. you did not grow up with your face in that screen of a phone. you know how to communicate and be around people. i have been around people all my life.

i worked with somalis in minnesota. i have learned to get along with everybody. the guy who is 80, that might be different when you are 80. but i am 57 and they just gobbled me up. they love me. host: even you said it was harder because the application process, in many cases, they just see a resume. you get no chance to actually present yourself, although in the case of you getting hired in that plant in north dakota, you are beastly did. -- you obviously did. host: yes. i won't go into any details but that was electronic. i was able to make an appearance. you have to get past that secretary. remember willie roman in death of a salesman, he walked in the door and nobody smiled at him anymore. that is what scares me. he lived on a shoe sign --

shoeshine and a smile. when those days are over, you will not be able to sell yourself anymore. that will be a drag. host: a snapshot of the manufacturing industry. the u.s. manufacturing skills gap could cost the economy $1 trillion. they write that covid-19 shook many industries around the world. the manufacturing institute estimated the initial outbreak erased 1.4 million jobs from the sector. since then, the sector has been successful hiring back 820,000 of those. however, there are still 570,000 manufacturing jobs that have yet to be filled, to breakeven the unemployment levels. despite there being nearly 500,000 job openings in the sector, those surveyed by the manufacturing institute report they are struggling to fill higher-paying entry-level production positions, let alone identifying and retaining skilled workers for more

specialized jobs. fran is next. she is in jacksonville, florida. fran in jacksonville. caller: thank you. i was listening to the other calls. all that does is make me more hardened about the plans that biden has and the administration has for developing these new jobs and getting skills for them as well. he is investing in the people. it really surprises me that people really expect someone who is getting unemployment to give up unemployment for a job that pays less that unemployment. -- than unemployment. i remember you were talking about raising the minimum wage and there was someone on your show who was against raising them and among ways. and then he said well, those

people have earned income credit and that makes up for it. that earned income credit comes from the government. and they are working for private industry. so, the government would be subsidizing private industry, giving them -- bringing them up to living standards, and they are working for private industry. now, the people are giving the money directly, they are not working for private industry. private industry people are upset that they cannot get anybody to work for them because they make more on unemployment. i am thinking well, i think the government is doing the right thing. host: congress is back next week. their headline says this. biden to meet with gop senators amid infrastructure push. president biden will hold a meeting next week with six republican senators as he looks to congress to pass his infrastructure plan through congress.

a white house official confirmed biden will meet thursday with shelley moore capito, john barrasso, roy blunt, pat toomey and roger wicker. the president appreciates their engagement and ongoing dialogue on this high priority and is looking forward to speaking with the group. let's hear from ron in grand prairie, texas. are you with us? ron in texas? no. let's try that. i am probably messing up the phones completely. we will go to tim in springfield, ohio. tim, can you hear us? caller: yes, i can. how are you doing? host: i am fine. caller: i am an employer. i am employed. i was laid off for five months and i received the benefits. it was good. it was more than i made when i worked.

it was more money. back then, they were paying $600 a month extra. so, it was a good thing but the government can't keep running the country like this. they will run it into the ground, eventually. you can't print money and have no money coming in. then you go into depression. there is so many different things i don't understand -- there are so many different things, i don't understand the whole logic of it. we have people on welfare who collect all kinds of food stamps and they turn around and get tax credits that are outrageous. where is this money coming from? host: on to kimberly, next in arkansas. kimberly is on the on a plummet line. go ahead. caller: hello. thank you for hearing my input today.

i am one of the ones that has been receiving the $300 bonus and i got furloughed in 2020, march of 2020. i was making $62,000 a year. what i am trying to say is i do understand where the fact that people -- why there would be a hindrance in going back to work. i understand that. as you can see in my case, this extra $300 is a drop in the bucket. this is not a quarter of what i was receiving in pay. i have a specialty degree, which makes it harder. the company which i was furloughed from actually -- my understanding was i was supposed to come back to work there.

they shut down completely, all over the state of arkansas. it was an alcohol and drug treatment facility. of course, that is what i specialize in. it has been difficult. some jobs say i am overqualified. and then other jobs are not even interested where i am. most of their offices have now closed. host: what is the arkansas state benefit? the weekly unemployment benefit you get? caller: what i get is $288. that is the benefit and the bonus is $300. $588. around $600 a week. i brought home like 1500 dollars to $2000 every two weeks after taxes. it is not beneficial.

i would rather go to work if i can get the job where i was working at. the money that i made. >> what major changes have you had to make to your life? have you had to move or sell a car? caller: i have sold a few cars. i just had to trust in god, basically. and try to pay what i can pay. host: thank you for calling in this morning. some reaction on twitter and via text. this one says raise them in a moment wage -- the minimum wage. that is eric in seattle. not being able to lure people on

off of unemployment is a weird way to admit you are only offering poverty wages. biden, like obama, tried to put this country on a job boom and they worked against the people's choice for president. case in point, windfarm blades. unemployment benefits are not the problem. lack of good paying jobs is says marcie in kansas. in this tweet, it says the united states has plenty of wealth. cut spending on weapons and investing people. we go to chicago and kim. you're on the air. caller: i have not stopped working. i had back surgery in late december. it was an emergency. i set out four weeks and received no on limit benefit.

i cashed out at my job. in four weeks, i went back to work because the benefits were not offered to me. i have not stopped working since. i work as a travel nurse now. my work is nonstop. we have to check in at 7:00 a.m. every morning. physically. and we have to be present at work at 7:45 and we don't get off until 6:00 p.m. this monday, our hours are changing from 8:00 a.m. and we will not get off until 8:00 p.m. i don't think it is fair that people are still sitting at home in so many places.

you can ride out in chicago and there are now hiring signs everywhere. host: to joyce in montclair, california. who is retired. good morning, joyce. caller: good morning. i am a person who worked as a vocational nurse. i am not working now. the people who write those articles in the newspapers, the people on fox news, have they spoken to anybody who is receiving money from unemployment? i see that people are talking about that. fox news needs to be more smith it -- specific as to who they are talking to. that is all i have to say.

good morning and have a less today. host: another story mentioning congress is coming back next week. we may see some more news about this story. police overhaul negotiations and draw a cord on some issues. they are drafting language for possible police overhaul legislation that would limit the transfer of some military equipment to local departments and police chokeholds except in life-threatening situations. the fine language on those measures would be incorporated on a compromise bill between lawmakers from both sides. it has not been said. central issues concerning the prosecution and liability of individual police officers remain to be resolved. they pointed to new areas of agreement as a sign that both parties have interest. president biden has asked to

pass legislation by the anniversary of george floyd's death, may 25. let's hear from a long in indiana -- avon in indiana. caller: thanks for taking my call. i have never drawn unemployment. and when i was unemployed, i couldn't get unemployment because i was a high wage earner. the process was so intense that it makes you want to go back to work, but when you get unemployment, the state has a minimum of $390 in indiana, and even if you put $300 on top of that, that is 690, and that is a drop in the bucket for people who have always worked. my point is, the reason why a

lot of jobs can't find people is because the conditions that workers have to work, number one, and the wages they are trying to give. these are the same employers that could knock -- couldn't get work when the economy was at a boom. if i was an employer and a see that you had issues getting employees before, i wouldn't want to work for a company that has high turnover. that is my comment. host: thanks for that, vernon. more ahead here on "washington journal." we will take you deeper dive into the april jobs numbers, the employment report. we are joined by washington post economic reporter heather long to talk about that. later our weekly spotlight on magazine series continues with a look at how the pandemic has disrupted the college application process. time magazines katie reilly will join us. ♪

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>> washington journal continues. host: heather long is with us next. she is but economics correspondent for the washington post. when asked to talk about not only the april jobs report, but the broader issue of the jobs issue is the united states which it has been writing about recently. guest: thanks a lot. host: let's talk about the jobs report, 266,000 jobs added. were you surprised by that? guest: everyone was surprised by that. the expectation was a million jobs and we basically got a quarter about. that we got a quarter of that. there was gasping around the rooms as people saw the number. i think there are two ways to think about why. one was what wall street did. you did not see the stop market

tumble. a lot of investors looked at this and thought it was a blip. the thinking is an anomaly. these job reports, we tend to get one quirky surprise her year. a lot of that sometimes has to do with the way the surveys are done in the way the adjustments are done. obviously, april the us month -- april last year was a crazy month. so wall street shrugged it off. another way to look at it is to say that this is going to be a long, hard road. we still have to get over 8 million people back to work, and that doesn't happen overnight. right now there is still a mismatch between what jobs are available at what pay and what locations, and what workers are available and what they feel comfortable to go back to work right away to do.

so it will take a little more time than i think many people were hoping, certainly the white house was hoping. host: you said 8 million people, is that the number of jobs lost during the pandemic? and how much ground have regained since then? guest: that's right, we lost basically 22 million jobs in the worst part, a year ago of april last year. we have gained 63% of those back, so the ones that are remaining, it is just over 8 million, 8.2 million that are remaining. some people argue the number is actually a little higher than that because we also need to add back a few more jobs to keep us all in the track that we were pre-pandemic, when the economy was steadily adding jobs month-to-month, obviously we haven't been adding many jobs, we have just been gaining back what we lost. the number i would keep in my head is about 8 million that still need to come back.

host: some of the areas that saw, leisure and hospitality area picking up 331,000 jobs. services industry, 44,000. the loss of jobs, 18,000 down in manufacturing. retail trade is down 15,000. health care is down 4000. and i think government, federal and state government is up about 48,000 jobs. any of those particular numbers surprise you at all? guest: not really. i thought the biggest surprise to me in the report was what happened with construction and manufacturing. anybody who has read anything about housing knows that this is a crazy hot housing market. homes are selling with 20 bits coming in across the country -- 20 bids coming in across the country. there is a lot of housing and construction demand, yet there was no job growth in the area, that are the zero in april, which i think was surprising.

same thing for manufacturing, we are seeing pretty strong manufacturing numbers. that industry has really been bouncing back, and yet that industry ended up losing 18,000 jobs in april. some of that is part of the local chip shortage going on. anybody who has tried to buy a car lately probably knows there is not a lot of supply out there right now, certainly used car lots. some of that is because auto factories have literally had to shut down for a few weeks because they cannot get all the parts they need. i thought those areas of the economy that we know are hot were not able to hire in april. to me, that was the bigger surprise. host: our guest is heather long economics correspondent for the washington post. we welcome your calls and comments. same lines used the last hour. if you are unemployed, the number two use is 202-748-8000. if you are employed 202-748-8001. ,if you are an employer, the

line is 202-748-8002. we would love to hear your experience in trying to hire workers. heather long, we had you on, and you had a piece published related to the jobs number, but more broadly, the headline of your piece was, "it is not a labor shortage, it is a great reassessment of working america." what do you mean by that? what is going on there? guest: i think on a really basic level, when i talk to unemployed people pretty much every day, the three things that i hear over and over again, number 1 is there are still some people who are hesitant to go back to certain jobs because of health concerns. we are still in a pandemic, and why we are getting more and more people vaccinated, quite a few still have not had their second shot yet, and then you are supposed to wait two weeks after that.

so they are not quite there yet healthwise. the second-most thing i hear a lot is the whole childcare issue. it was interesting in april, all the job gains went to men. no women were hired in april. we actually saw 54,000 women leave the labor force, so they stopped looking for work. does that mean they are sitting home eating chocolate and having fun? no. in the vast majority of cases, they are still caring for children because the schools are not fully reopened yet. at the last thing i keep hearing, which is why i call it "the great reassessment," we have all been through a harrowing year, whether you are at home or working at a hospital, or working at a grocery store, this has been a really tough year. it has been a very isolating year. this is not a normal recession. people are not coming out of this immediately went into the back to work like a light switch coming on.

a lot of people have been sitting alone on a bus, or alone at home, and they have been really rethinking their life. what do i want to do in life? what is my purpose? do i still want to be on the same career track? and what we are seeing is, from affluent people down to the lowest wage workers, people are rethinking what they want to do with their life. i was struck by -- pew research survey to unemployed workers and asked the question "do you want to stay in the same career or change careers?" and right now two thirds of unemployed people say they want a different career. maybe they used to work in retail or restaurant, now they want to work in health care or real estate. people are telling me, yes, i want to go back to work. but i want to do something slightly different.

in many cases they are using that unemployment money and using their retraining money that many states have available right now to try to shift into a different career. and. that's not a bad thing, but it is another reason we're not seeing people overnight take the first $10 an hour job that is open to them. they want to do something fundamentally different. host: quite incidental with the covid pandemic last year and suddenly this year it coincides with the current cohort of the baby boomer generation reaching retirement age. have more boomers decided to retire? is that adding to the worker shortage issue? guest: exactly right that is something i mentioned in the piece, that retirements have skyrocketed in the past year. you see two categories of people retiring right now. one our people scared to go back to work -- you saw a lot of nurses, teachers in your 50's and 60's who maybe still wanted to work five or six more years,

but they thought that it was too dangerous to go back. they did not want to take that risk and they retired early. the other thing you are seeing is what i call the "life is short cohort." these are people who are upper-middle-class, doing really well and they have been able to save some money, their home value has skyrocketed, their retirement portfolio has done incredibly well as the stock market has rebounded hugely in the past year, and they are looking at their retirement and saying, i have 55, i was going to work five or 10 more years, but life is short. i want to do my boating, or my woodworking or my hobby. i think i can retire early. you are seeing those people who feel comfortable to retire early who are doing it by choice as well. host: i wanted to ask you about the gig economy. a piece published this morning in the washington post, "where have all the uber drivers gone?"

they write that -- part of our top priorities is to rebuild our driver base -- the uber chief executive on a call on monday,, quote, "with demand outstripping supply, driver earnings are at historically elevated levels." noting that "the dynamic led to record earnings for drivers in most u.s. cities." drivers said the coronavirus pandemic provided the first glimpse and years of what life after obama could look like for many of them. it was a meaningful reset that give them a better understanding of the full that gig -- of the toll the gigs had taken on their bodies. how do you think that gig economy, not just uber or lyft, will change after the pandemic? guest: this is what i have been calling the great reassessment another way to say it is some soul-searching that people have

been doing in whatever jobs they are in. it goes across the income spectrum. i have heard it from people who make six figures and work in a law firm or investment firm. i have also heard it from people earning under $50 an hour, who used to work in a restaurant or worked in gig economy-type jobs, driving uber or lyft. everyone has taken a step back in the last year. many of us used to be on autopilot -- go to work, do the job, earn the money, pay the bills. there was a big rapture in that last year. people had to step back and say, is this worth it? i was thinking yesterday, they are not a gig workers, bu i was talking t a couple flees to work at a big retailer and one of them got laid off last year -- a couple who used to work at a big retailer. one of them got laid off.

the husband was a manager at the store and he didn't like having to enforce the mask mandate. he had to tell people to wear masks. they were nasty to him. they both were sitting at their dining room table saying, is it worth it to get paid even $18 an hour to just be all that constantly everyday, similar to what some of these uber and lyft drivers are saying. you have sometimes irate passengers and people who are really mean. is this what i want to live life? so this couple were lucky. they have bought a house, their house value went up and they are in the process of selling their home and they want to take their kids, buy a camper and travel around the u.s. just do something, totally different than what they ever envisioned doing in the pandemic. i hear more and more stories like that and i think you are seeing it from peoria and -- from uber and lyft. i think you will start to see wages go up.

you heard the callers from the last hour calling about that. an important part of the april jobs report is we are starting to see evidence of raising pay. for instance in the restaurant sector, hospitality and leisure, we hear the most claims that there is a labor shortage, wages have actually gone up on average about a dollar compared to the pandemic levels. they are now up about a dollar. a pretty big jump came in april as companies are trying to get employees back. but the average pay in the hospitality sector is $18 an hour. versus the average pay at a warehouse which is slightly safer, you are not around as many people, it has gone up even more than a dollar and is now on average, $26 an hour. so i think shop like the real issue -- i think that's the

real issue people are thinking maybe i need to make a career switch and try to do something different. host: let's hear from our viewers and listeners, their comments and questions for heather long of the washington post. first we go to cornelius in mississippi on our employed line. go ahead. caller: good morning. ms. long, good morning and happy mother's day to you. guest: thank you. caller: look, if you are looking for work, you can pretty much find work. i think the situation is about, due to the coronavirus. there are jobs out there where we as american people, we have to pay attention to the details. you have people who go to so many jobs, especially young gentleman, you have people that don't want to wear their mask.

so you're probably more conscientious about what we are doing. at the same time, i was unemployed for about three weeks, and this past week, i made one phone call. i had an interview the next day at a warehouse and i got hired the same day. if you want to find work, you can find work. i was in the school system. i am in the manufacturing area now. one thing i like about this position is that you are required to wear a face mask. so, like i said, if you want work, you can find work. host: heather long, any thoughts? guest: he is 100% right. there are certainly a lot of job openings in most parts of the country, but he points to some of the issues -- you have to be in which a passenger test, you have to -- you have to be

willing to pass a drug test, you have to be willing to wear masks. you have to be willing to lift 50 pounds. i agree that there are jobs that are open, but i think what you are seeing is people debating, is that the right job for me, and what is the pay? host: we talked the first hour about whether the federal job benefits, the unemployment benefits, are a disincentive to work. they used to be $600 under the c.a.r.e.s. act. is there any evidence over the course of the pandemic that of those federal measures, the extra unemployment benefits, have been a disincentive to find work? guest: i think the fairest way to answer that is, yes, a little bit. there is not evidence of widespread, people sitting at home really enjoying this money and thinking this is a lottery

ticket and i am never going to go back to work. i do not hear about, and i talked unemployed people every day, 30 much. but i think there is basic math. the average unemployment payment without the federal benefit is around $300. some states it is a little more, some states it is a little less. most people are earning around $300 a week. your callers talked about earning $286. then you add $300. so we are talking people earning roughly $600 a week? what is $600 a week? that basically works out to a $15 an hour job over 40 hours a week. it is fair to say that the jobs that are paying less than $15 an hour, the $10, $11, $12 our jobs will be hard to fill now. but i think when you look at

things like warehouse jobs, or jobs that are paying more than $15 an hour, you are continuing to see hiring, you are continuing to see that people want to get back to work. because they know these benefits are not going to last forever. host: let's hear from gilbert, an employer in raleigh, north carolina. good morning. gilbert? . caller: you're on the air, go ahead. caller: good morning. caller: good morning. i am on a nationwide business, with 100 employees across multiple states. on the professional service side of the business, we are having great difficulty in trying to find people. we are finding them, but we realize that over the last year, we are having a lot of candidates ghost us. what i mean by "ghost," is that they agree to come in for

an interview and they never show up. it has been difficult. we realize this happens a lot more with workers that are under 30 versus workers that are over 30, 40 or 50. so we are having difficulty finding workers. what we have heard is that they are looking for better opportunities while they continue to get this stimulus payment, and unemployment and the bump from the federal government. we have heard a couple of employees, ones that we were trying to hire, tell us that, and also other employees that are having the same problem. so it is an issue. we need to disincentivize people to get back into the workforce and that the market dictate wages. thank you. host: ok. that term, "ghost," i had

never heard that before. guest: yeah. the term appeared in some federal reserve documents when they were describing in the labor force. they were talking to employers like gilbert around the country. i do think he is right. this notion of, workers have options. unemployed people have options right now. speaking to a man in austin texas yesterday, he said it very well. he said, the one time i was laid off the floor, i was nervous. i admittedly went home and took a shower and immediately started hunting for a job, when to find something and got a new job in a few weeks. he said it is a little bit different this time around, because of this unemployment money, basically getting $600 a week. he said, i still want to go back to work, but right now he is going back to school to earn his associates degree.

he wants to finish that associates degree and hopefully get a better job, just like gilbert was describing. people are hunting at the moment. they feel like they have more time to hunt for that better job. may be a job where they can work from home, maybe it is a job that has better childcare policies, maybe it's a job that pays more than $15 an hour. but that is what the globe looking for right now. i hear that line a lot, "i feel that i have options right now." host: on that, mary on twitter says it is about options. she says "people will do what they can now they can afford to -- now they can avoid the wage skimmers. want workers? she asks, -- "clean up your game." guest: i think there is a great reassessment also going on among employers about, how many

workers do they need? we know that more companies have automated and gone to robots. think about things like check-in at the airport or other hotel. used to talk to a person. now you just punched some buttons when you show up. so they are thinking, what jobs do we actually need to hire people back for? they are also rethinking, do we need as many people at the office? can have people work from home? companies like ford are making incredible announcement, that they will still have thousands of workers permanently working from home. and some people really like that. i was speaking to someone yesterday who said, i might quit my job and go work for another company that allows me to work from home, or at least a hybrid where i can do some days at home, some days at work. so i do think companies, in addition to raising pay -- everybody's focused on what are they paying, $15, $20 an hour? but people want benefits.

gilbert from north carolina brought up that he sees a different between the under 30 and over 30 crowd in what people want, what work structure do they want. i think there is a generational shift there too. host: this is chris from arkansas joining us employer. good morning caller: good morning. the thing i am needing to build does not fit on the supermarket shelf. i am a designer. i went to college for that. i am trying to get an sba. i am disabled. i am worried about getting that sda because of my student loans that went into default because of certain republican president held up my disability determination, so my student loans went into default. so that is one thing i have to work against.

host: ok. we will go to chuck in wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. it seems to me the problem here is people are just letting it passed by. if you go to a retail store anywhere, 90% of what you purchase is made in china and that keeps the price of wages down, because these companies are making things for pennies on the dollar. and also your health insurance companies. they have doubled and almost tripled since 2008. that has a lot to do with people's wages and everything else, where the company either hire people dirt cheap or they are made in china. host: heather long, your response. guest: chuck brings up some good

points. one of the areas where we see agreement across the political spectrum is on the influence of china on the economy in the united states and on the belief that, yes, some american jobs have gone to china. there are efforts to change about. you saw president trump trying to put on -- trying to renegotiate trade deals with china. you could argue that was successful or not, but it was a big attempt to reset the relationship. and we are seeing president biden continued that. he has not pulled back the tariffs on china, as he has also instituted tighter requirements for the federal government to purchase more and more products may in the united states or at least in north america, canada and the united states and mexico. that is an ongoing issue, and the other thing that i think is not getting talked about enough is that we are also seeing

accelerated automation. we are seeing more robots doing different types of jobs and more sophisticated type of jobs these days. that has certainly sped up during the pandemic. i was surprised to say companies that, say, pick strawberries or cut meat, processed chicken, these sorts of things. when there were outbreaks of covid there, they began to experiment more with robots in those factories, and those are areas we thought would be some of the last to be automated, and even they are using robots more there, so i think we're seeing very much a change. particularly in lower wage jobs and what people are doing and what companies are willing to pay and how we workers are going to be in those types of jobs. host: a question from a text. it says this, for the unemployed

that need to come back to some type of work, do they have the skills needed for the jobs available now? guest: 100%. this was an issue before the pandemic and it is still an issue. i know that employers have been calling the white house even more than talking about a labor shortage. what they are talking about is a skills shortage. there is this belief that there are these jobs, but a lot of people need some higher education. they don't need the full bachelors or four year college degree. they don't necessarily need that degree. but they need an associates degree or at least one or two years of some extra training. that is why you see president biden proposing to make community college or at least two years of it free for all americans in the hope that we can encourage more people to get

more advanced training in the hopes that they will get more skills and we can have a higher educated workforce. host: our guest, heather long, has masters degrees from oxford university, where she was a rhodes scholar. we welcome, from new york, tell us how to pronounce your name, i don't want to disrespect your name. is not ojai? caller: oji. before the pandemic, i worked in life events. after the pandemic i took a job working at a press point. i was on unemployment for a little bit but i chose to work at those press plant working less money. the issue is, your working 12 hour days, they are only offering you $16 an hour. the person that has the same job as you may get a more than you.

they are pushing you to the limits, mandatory overtime days. now they will start making us do, two mandatory overtime days. so we will go to working six days a week, 12 hour shifts. that is an issue of why they are having a hard time finding employees and retaining employees. host: thanks for the comment. heather long? guest: 100% right. i hear this kind of comment on most every day when i talk to people. he said it very nicely. the version that i hear, and i think have seen it on your c-span twitter feed is people saying things like "i don't want to go to the dirty job. i don't want to get back to a job where i am disrespected. to a job where i feel mistreated." that looks different to different people, what their line is for feeling mistreated, or feeling like the working conditions are not right for them, but, again, this is what i

keep calling this great reassessment. after this really hard year people have been through, after a year where the hell watched a lot of people die -- watched a lot of people died, maybe people in their own family, people are saying that life is short and they don't necessarily want to work in a job anymore where, i feel like i am not being treated well. host: caroline from massachusetts, good morning. caller: as a former financial journalist, i just want to complement heather on her great work. heather, the discrepancies between the march and april reports, not only the data, but the discussion of them, is such a gross discrepancy that i wonder if we aren't looking for reasons and everything will be upended. as you said, the construction piece makes no sense. the manufacturing piece doesn't

jive with the purchasing manager surveys and stuff like that. and yes, while i can agree with what you said, that i most of the lowest paying workers, yes, unemployment may be a better deal than working -- i don't know. anytime there is such a divergence from one month to the next i am always a lot of costs -- i am always a little cautious, and i want to get your view on that. guest: i agree entirely. certainly, that is what the reaction on wall street, a lot ofmaiden deployment into my inbox, probably yours, too, that said basically, this is a blip or an anomaly. that relief is still that we will have a couple of months this summer where we do a dd a surge in hiring. whether that comes in may or

june or september, i am not sure i would bet which month it would be, but i think the general belief, just as you are saying, is that we are still seeing an improving economy. we are still see lots more and more job opportunities. we are seeing more wage increases. eventually people are going to be lured back to work are typically as they start to feel safe. and i think the key is the women's issue. obviously we have seen -- people have called this the she-cessi on. people were hit with job losses than they were hit again with the fact that many moms had to drop back or go back there i was at work in order to care for their kids when they were not able to go to school or the daycares will not open. we still saw a good bit of evidence that that is contained in april to be a big strain even

though schools are reopening. they are often doing two or three days a week at school and then two days a week at home still, so it is not a predictable schedule or a schedule that is fully able to the back to work. as soon as we can get schools will reopen and they carefully reopen, we will see more women come back and we will see those big numbers that we were expecting in april will play out in some point in the coming months. host: a little bit more about whether the april numbers are an anomaly. some economic analysis from "new york times", the column. he writes "the details of the new numbers are messy. temporary unemployment fell, while hiring in the leisure and hospitality sector was up 331,000 jobs. it will take time to figure out why so many mainstream forecast or so wrong -- forecasts were so wrong and whether some part of

the week results is more a statistical aberration than reality. he writes, it robust job growth does not return quickly, it will be very concerning. the economy is still short 8.2 million jobs. the great hope has been that employers would fill that gap rapidly, bringing the united states back to its full potential in short order." any thoughts on that, heather long? guest: i think makepeace is better. [laughter] -- i think my piece was better. [laughter] i am surprised you didn't quote from the washington post today. i think we are all saying the same thing, and my piece opens on the front page of the washington post saying something similar. that, yes, by and large, this does look like a blip or anomaly, and will continue to see strong hiring and strong economic growth. we are expecting this year -- 2021 will probably be the

fastest year of growth in united states 1984 probably earlier. wall street is tripping over itself, putting up reports that we could grow 6% this year. that is going to open up a lot of opportunities in the united states. our bigger problem is probably going to be that, that there is going to be so much demand. you can already see if sometimes when you are trying to buy a car, there just aren't many cars on the lot right now. it is really starting to be a problem where we get get enough cars. not only are we having trouble getting enough workers, we are having trouble getting enough parts to meet all the demand we're seeing right now across the economy. host: a few more calls remaining for heather long. we will go to portland, oregon and hear from hermann. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: a lot of problems,

especially restaurants and stuff that these people are complaining, they got a 40 hour job but they want to split it between two or three people. so these people will come back from unemployment, they got to get two or three jobs to get 40 hours of work. host: the issue of multiple jobs, heather, was an issue before the pandemic, correct? guest: it was. this one tends to be more anecdotal. we don't see a rise in the data in people holding two or three jobs. actually as the treasury secretary janet yellen pointed out yesterday. , the labor department tracks how many people are working part-time because they can't find a full-time job, site it is called "involuntary part-time." those numbers actually fell sharply in april by about half a million.

that means about half a million people who were in part-time work were able to find a full-time job or closer to that 40 hour week, give or take. those signs indicate -- while i to look -- while i respect what he is saying, there are people in that circumstance still -- i think over all across the economy, we are seeing a lot of full-time job openings and people getting those full-time hours. host: joe is with us, from rupert, idaho, on the unemployment line. welcome. caller: yes. wages, $20 and $30 an hour, it is comparable. it is a minimum wage. wages in the 1970's, without a cost-of-living increase, that is where we're at right now. companies profit, packaging stores profit. what is going on? i don't understand it, needing

three jobs. it is ridiculous. profits? it is just so upsetting that the past 30 years, no living wage increase. that is where we are at. i don't understand. host: heather long, have wages kept pace with the cost of living? guest: by and large obviously the minimum wage has not. been has been a lot of focus on the minimum wage, just over seven dollars an hour for over a decade now. we haven't seen that increase in the minimum wage. i will say a lot of states have raised their minimum wage, and suddenly we have seen a lot of big employers including the walmart and targets of the world and amazon, have now gone to about $15 or higher. the way i would say it is, if

congress tries tomorrow to pass, to move the minimum wage to $12 or $13, they could get bipartisan support for the. a lot of big businesses actually are already at that level. the question is whether we need to go to $15. that is where you see pushback, particularly from the lower cost of living state, like west virginia, where people are not sure they are ready for $15. what we are seeing now is of the been encouraging. if you look at the sample jobs report, we are starting to see some evidence that companies are raising wages, including in the restaurant and hospitality sector. but they have gone up a dollar. now, wages are still low. that average is still about $18 an hour. is that enough, particularly for the job that is being done there ?

that is a question a lot of workers are asking a lot of companies are asking right now. host: bill in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. and for taking my call. a couple of points. my sister was a grocery store cashier. i'll tell you what, people don't want to wear a mask. it is the same people she sees over and over again complaining about having to wear a mask. folks, if you don't want to wear a mask, get a shot. my second point is, my wife has you press. she is afraid to go out. we are not living to go shopping yet because we are not at herd immunity. you want to get business going, let's get the herd immunity. the third point is, i live in pennsylvania. a lot of people live near the borders of maryland or new york. they just want jobs in the next state because the minimum wage is much higher. i wonder if that is a phenomenon. thank you.

host: thank you. guest: i will just say, a man on the health point -- amen on the health point. i think he is right on the last point, that is economics 101. whenever people tell me they are having trouble finding workers, your first question needs to be what are you paying? what is your wage? the higher your raise wages, the more applicants. host: you tend to get heather long economics correspondent for the washington post. you can read her reporting on the jobs numbers, but more broadly, her current piece on washington post.com -- "it is not a labor shortage, it is a great reassessment of work in america." thank you for being with us. more calls ahead. we will focus on politics and next. the advocate party, is it the party -- the republican party,

is it the party of donald trump? that is the question. you can call us on the numbers. as political struggles remain next week in congress. ♪ >> we are not only trying to do the theoretical work that we might be interested in or the esoteric work we are interested in, like particle physics, but also we are trying to confront real problems associated with our ability to get work done. so i found myself having to become an front on racism and sexism and homophobia and transphobia in science, because i needed to fight for myself, to fight to make room for myself. and i found that in order to

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host: washington journal continues. after the next 30 minutes or so, we will talk politics, in particular, is the republican party now the party of former president donald trump? a couple of political events driving this. first in virginia, today, they are selecting their nominee for governor. they will have an off year election, as they do. gop primary for governor choices, trumpy trumpier, and trumpiest. one candidate boasts of --. these are not fringe candidates for the republican nomination. for virginia governor, they are three of the leading contenders at a race that in many ways

embodies the decade-long maoist on the republican power in virginia. it was purple state that has gyrated more towards democrats than perhaps any in the country. in part that is because of the hard-right trend of office seekers that preceded president trump and became a riptide during his turn in the white house. the party's race to the right shows no signs of tampering as a group of republicans gather in 39 sites around virginia to choose a nominee for governor. that candidate will advance to a november general election that has traditionally been a report card on the party in power in washington, as well as important for the midterms nationally. that is from the new york times. let's get to your calls and comments. is the republican party now the party of trump? democrats 202-748-8000. ,republicans 202-748-8001.

,independents and others 202-748-8002. ,to milwaukee, wisconsin on the democrats line. good morning. caller: good morning. i think the republican party is mainly a trump party now. i think over the past decade, it is difficult for democrats and republicans to get along at all or tell end the person in congress or the senate to think for themselves and not go along party lines. republicans are getting to the point that they are going to lose consistently because they are not focusing on jobs and health. i don't understand. talking before about unemployment -- i am retired, but i don't understand how people can save when companies are no longer offering pensions

and have such a low wage. and that is due to the republicans. so they want to vote for trump again, they are going to lose again. host: stephen is next in fort lauderdale. welcome. caller: good morning. the first comment i want to make is, the republican party was flushed down the toilet by trump. there is no republican party. it does not exist. it is a cult of trump. from the minute he got on the political stage, he has destroyed and divided this country, destroyed our standing in the world and has tried to separate us with walls and every other thing that he could do. but the most important thing we have to understand is that 70% of republicans believe the big lie. we know that is false. we know that it is a cult. of cult of personality. it will never go away, probably

for another 100 years, because even out of office trump is still dividing the country and destroying america. it's so sad. host: to allen in pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i definitely would say that he is dividing the country. i don't know. i just watched over the last four years as an independent,, and as somebody who purposely tried to look at things from both sides. and understand that the power the office carries. everyone needs a little bit of accountability. as i watch, there isn't. they all fell in line. there was no accountability.

it got worse and worse and now it has grown to the point of -- almost no return. you asked the question is it becoming the party of trump? it definitely has. it definitely has. host: the rally tradition of president trump continuing with representative matt gaetz and marjorie taylor greene yesterday holding a rally in florida. here is the headline -- america first isn't going away. embattled representative matt gaetz and a clear message to her from the crowd friday night, he is not going away. quote, "i am a marked man in congress, a canceled man in some parts of congress. i might be a wanted man in the "deep state," but i am a florida man and it is good to be home."

florida republican and representative marjorie taylor greene of georgia kicked off their america first tour, which the pair of controversial republican lawmakers plan on using to lay into so-called rinos, republican in name only. here is some of that from last night in florida. [video clip] >> this is an invitation to our fellow patriots to join the movement. we need to know patriots to join us, because it is no longer just the red team against the blue team in politics, it is the establishment against the rest of us. and there are more of us than there are of them. they know it. that is why they are so afraid. that's why they hope this movement dies. but we will never let her die because we will never let america die! [applause] from the "deep state" in government to the deepfakes in media, they have tried to

defame, deplatform, and destroy that which they cannot control. and they could not control trump. and they could not control me. and they certainly can control congresswoman marjorie taylor greene! [applause] big government, big media, big-tech, they would all agree the sire relief if marjorie taylor greene and i were no longer in congress fighting for you. -- they would all breathe a sigh of relief. they lie on us because we tell that with about them. and we are not going to stop. . we are not powerless in this fight. we are a powerful movement. your powerful people, as president trump reminds us. we are the elites now. so that our beautiful, cherish constitution be our guide. we have the right to speak

freely and assemble, and be better use it. host: you can watch the event at c-span.org. vanity fair headline -- the republican party is only getting more attached to trump. the anticipated ouster of bedrock conservative liz cheney is the latest example of americans abandoning as the bulls in their cultlike devotion to the from president who may soon return to the rally stage. asking you in this admit if the republican party is becoming the party of donald trump. 202-748-8000 for democrats, 202-748-8001 from republicans, and all others 202-748-8002. ,on social media, this, says -- yes, it is the party of corrupt. can't understand why people voted for trump, knowing all the correct things this man has done, says vicki in new york. this one says -- they are wedded to this live because of the money. and this comment -- there is no

doubt the gop is the party of trump. for non-trump is seeking a new home, consider joining the libertarian party. george is on our republican line. go ahead. george in oregon. go ahead. are you there? all right, we will move to amy in georgia. hello. caller: good morning. the republican party is not the party of trump, it is the party of the atwater and the southern strategy. they have been headed in this anti-democracy, anti-constitution, anti-rule of law party for about 40 years. donald trump is just a symptom, a product of that 40 years. he is a distraction. he is simply a manifestation, an avatar if you will,, of the white grievance in this country.

the republican party is a white supremacy party. that is how they get their voters riled up, by playing on white fear and white grievance, so, no, it is not the party of donald trump. it is the party of southern strategy and white grievance. thanks. host: the washington post headline -- trump justice department secretly obtained washington post reporters phone records. they write that the justice department secretly obtained phone records and tried to obtain their email records overreporting they did in their only month of the trump administration on russia's role in the 2016 election, according to government officials. in three letters dated may 3 and addressed to host reporters -- post reporters, the justice department wrote that they were hereby notified that pursuant to legal process, the u.s. department of justice received records associated with the following telephone numbers,

from april 15 2017 to july 31, 2017. they listed work, home and cell phone numbers covering the three-month period. the post acting executive editor said, -- we are deeply troubled by this use of executive power. the department of justice should immediately make clear its reasons for this intrusion in the activities of reporters doing their jobs, an activity protected under the first amendment. on the independent nine, next is pete. good morning. caller: good morning. i voted for trump. i got to tell you, i am just fed up with our whole political system. democrats think that all the 74 million gorsuch that voted for trump are -- 74 million or such that voted for trump are a bunch of neanderthal, subhuman types.

and the republicans in power think that the democrats are a bunch of communists. no wonder we can't get along in this country. so sad, so sad, so sad. it is nothing but a bunch of hatred and violence in words and deeds. it is horrible. maybe this country needs to just settle down, but i don't think it will. i think we continue with this hatred back-and-forth. it is so sad. host: the headline from the hill -- gop cannot move forward without president trump. the comment comes as republicans seek to remove their third-ranking house member, liz cheney, from her leadership post amid her continued criticisms of the former president. quote, "i would say to my republican colleagues, can we

move forward with our president trump? the answer is no." he said. cheney but she made a determination that the republican party drove with trump i say we cannot grow without him. " caller: is this a real question? i cannot believe we are asking this. i've been a republican and conservative for most of my life. when i teach my children and other children, that we are not black or white, we are people. i do not know why we have forgotten this fundamental belief. all of this divisiveness like the last call speaking about made up terms about white grievance. i am not white, i could care less, i am not black, i could care less.

we are people, until we figure this out, republicans must be white or democrat you must be all of these communities -- give me a break. we should be part of the moral community. we should love each other. it does not matter whether you are republican or democrat. just love each other. get this stupid question of the tv. host: alan ortner stopped in margaret ville, new jersey on the democrat line. -- call up next, in margaret though, new jersey, democrat line. caller: we are first of all americans, our ancestors immigrated to this land, it was the indians who owned the land. today we are americans, black, white, yellow, any creed, color.

why are we not supporting each other? why are we not working towards a better democracy? why are we so divided. why are politicians fighting each other instead of working together to improve the quality of life and the economy? we are the government, let's not forget that. host: is the republican party, the party of former president trump? (202) 748-8000 democrats, (202) 748-8001 republicans, others (202) 748-8002. this is the piece in today's wall street journal "liz cheney confronts a house of cowards." after the election every attempt to prove it was still in filth, recounts field, court challenges

felt, some before trump appointed judges. the dominion voted systems of voted -- created losses against those who slandered it. the former president is undeterred. he insisted that the idea that he lost the 2020 elections was the big lie. representative liz famously responded that the election being stolen was the big lie. under attack by calyx, she almost certainly be stripped of her leadership next week. why did she take the bait of this figure, mr. trump and the gravy train operatives around him who were called unemployables? because as you would if the former president is allowed to tell his lie, it will only dig in and spread and the foundations of the republic begin to crack. trump is never expressed remorse or regret for the attack on henry six, now he suggests that our systems cannot be trusted to

do the will of the people. -- january 6, now he suggests that our systems cannot be trusted to do the will of the people. there will be great cost to the party for farmers the only woman in house leadership and pushing back against mr. trump. ousting her for saying the obvious puts them on the side of the big lie, that is never a healthy place to be. independent line next, this is mia in maryland. -- i'm sorry to have to push the button. caller: the republican party has been taken over by trump and his followers? it seems that is so. we have watched politics devolve into chaos. like previous calls have said, he is a symptom. we cannot blame trump for what

politics has devolved into. unfortunately americans on both sides are tired of the divisiveness. they are tired of the classism, the government not doing its job as regular americans suffer. while politicians live well. in reference to trump followers, what is set is that people have not understood psychologically if you want to get through to people, persuade them to reason you cannot name call. you cannot diminish or they are, sidestep their personal issues. you have to explain things on a level where people can understand and be persuaded. that is the whole issue, the name-calling.

the media is left-leaning, i am not a republican and do not support the majority of their policies. but it is very true. what is sad is that trumpism has woken up some of the worst things in this country. at its core, and by the people are fed up with the weight our government is running things. the only sad thing for me, because i am a progressive is that the left could not -- the progressives have not been able to sway the democratic party the way the trump circle have swayed the republican party. what an amazing thing that would be, america moving towards the policies the rest of the first world enjoy with the higher standard of living. because our government is working for us. host: okay to tulsa, oklahoma on the republican line.

caller: coleman here -- c-span callers are anti-trump, their pellucid why can't we get along? oklahoma voted 70% for trump, people in washington, d.c. voted 95% for biden, there is divide among the washington, d.c. crowd that is for big government. it is logical that they would vote democrat. everybody else is paying the big crowd in washington, d.c. by working normal jobs. there is a divide like that. the problem is the media is

anti-trump and continues to promote that. the calls this morning have basically been 9-0 anti-trump. two were neutral. the articles are all anti-trump. we get tired of being called cultists, we are scared of socialism that the democrat party is coming in with. they promote the racist program of identifying everybody by their color, some other color instead of people like what i talked about. the government is promoting the systemic racism, the comment if you do not work for me, you are not black.

to a black radio commentator is an example of systemic racism. to create this division. host: response on social media, you can text us at (202) 748-8003. "unfortunately, it is trump's party, i will go over to the libertarian camp until trump goes away. i am happy to be a trump supporter rather than the follower of the biden bundlers." caller: hey bill. i would like to talk to to my -- to my fellow americans, especially the republicans [indiscernible] --and australia, they do not have these problems.

do you get it? i am just talking to you. host: thank you for your call. gary in california, independent line. hello there. caller: thank you c-span. there is an easy solution to all of this, get term limits for congressional people and acted -- enacted. host: how without help -- what that help -- how would that help? caller: everything there is broken. you should do a segment on term limits. host: this is from the justice department from the trump administration. they'll reporting a decision on the memo, putting a highlight on the secretive department of justice office. "the office is under scrutiny,

after a judge ordered the department of justice to release a memo that alleged president trump claimed that he was exonerated by the miller probe -- mueller probe. it has long been suspected that it is a rubberstamp for the resident and essentially just levine the -- and essentially drafts of behind closed doors. ethics and transparency advocates have been calling for the reform of the office for years and some are hoping that how it operated during the trump administration will provide momentum." stockstill, virginia, up next on the republican line. caller: good morning. host: find, thank you. caller: i listen to you every saturday morning on my drive to work. i am a retired government

executive. i resent being called part of a cult because i did not sign up to vote for joe biden and his ilk. republicans are annoyed with people like liz cheney, i can understand why. she would not be where she was without her father's name. the same with former president george bush. we tend to give the nominations of the presidency to people and i think trump upset that. most of the people that have it running that gravy train in the republican party. the future of the party is ron desantis and congresswoman stuff on it -- stefanik. nobody can argue with desantis's success in florida. i grew up in upstate new york,

new york is a mess. so is california. biden is doing nothing but shoveling money with senator schumer and nancy pelosi to the disasters. i have lived in italy, hong kong and all over south america preshow others -- pre chavez. socialism has never been successful. host: geraldine in florida, next up. caller: good morning. i keep hearing it referred to as the party of trump. i have referred it to it as the party imputing since the date that trump walked into the white house. hello? host: thanks for that. this is a piece from the desert news.

"the molokai for a post trump gop." it is from a former official in the george bush administration. "the current state and future of the republican party, it has changed as demonically and quickly as any previous major party in history. it is fundamentally different and vertical policy -- philosophy, tone and temperament than it was. " steve is with us in webster, massachusetts. caller: good morning. i think it is time for everybody to have a beer summit. i consider this new york times article as an exemplar of the biases the left-wing media. this could just as easily be as the democratic party the party of obama. president biden has jen psaki,

janet yellen, susan rice, a lot of holdovers from the obama administration. that is how politics works. it is a fact of life. what the times is doing is dividing us by associating the entire party with president trump. he had his faults. we have to move on with the dialogue, i like the call from oklahoma, arkansas. i am tired of hearing from the left that we are a party of the other thaws -- neanderthals. the democrat party left me. they have gone too close to the ideals of marx. we have always had these conflicts between cosmopolitan america and the great america. host: i want to point out to

your point, we asked a similar question about the biden, early on in the administration. not phrase that way but about the influence of the obama administration in the biden administration. to your point we have addressed that. thank you for your call. good to hear from you. our spotlight on magazine series is coming up next. we will be joined by katie reilly from time magazine. we'll talk about her article on how the pandemic has disrupted the college application process. ♪ ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. today at 2:00 eastern on oral history, oliver talley recalls his time as a swiftboat crewmember in vietnam.

tonight at 8:00 eastern on lectures in history, american car culture and films of 1970 with the university of dayton professors. sunday at 2:00 eastern on oral history, charlotte henry on her expenses a a dog handler with the u.s. air force during the vietnam war. then the 1972 film, a time for peace, documenting the trip to china, the first ever bite an american president. on american artifacts we visit san francisco to hear the story of the chinese in america and tour the streets of chinatown. explain the american story, watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. >> c-span shop.org is our online start with a collection of products and all of them help support nonprofit operations. order a copy of the

congressional directory with contact information for congress and the cabinet. there are numerous products available. >> washington journal continues. host: katie reilly covers national news and education issues for time magazine. she has a new feature piece in time that has a headline, "applying to college was never easy for most students but the pandemic made it impossible." welcome to washington journal. guest: thank you for having me. host: what caused you to focus on the lost senior class? guest: reporting started when it became clear that college enrollment declined significantly. the goal was to figure out why and how the pandemic was affecting current high school seniors as they applied for college or decided whether they would apply to college.

i a lot of students were facing extra challenges, stresses this year as they apply to college. applying to college is never easy, even in a difficult year but the pandemic upended the pathway to college. especially for those hit hardest by covid-19 and the economic crisis. freshman enrollment fell significantly, a record 13% across-the-board. it felt even more at the community college. more than 20%. experts are worried about signs of that trend repeating itself this fall. which could worsen gaps in college access. since of color, low-income students and first-generation college goers. host: for our viewers, some data and information on what she was talking about. estimates from the census bureau conducted biweekly since august of last year, anywhere from 7.7

million to 10 million adults cancel plans of post secondary classes because of financial constrained. the number of high school graduate who went immediately onto college declined 6.8% compared the previous year. what have high school students, the ones you talk to, -- talked to, what have they been doing to apply to colleges? or to stay current with those applications? guest: for soon to did apply to college, they did so against immense obstacles. many were dealing with a loss of height relative, many of them took on extra responsible this at home. caregiving roles for utterly

siblings -- for elders or siblings. many of them started working full-time jobs to help their family. i talked to a student in college, she described the challenge of staying up until 1:00, poring over financial aid -- tax forms to fill out financial aid, filling out applications for colors than working on applications for rental assistance. her parents lost work and they were worried about rent payments. she speaks english and her parents do not so this became her responsibility. to communicate with the landlord. above and beyond that challenges of this typical senior year. a lot of since facing these

challenges decided the commitment of a two year or four year degree was not feasible. maybe their families needed a more at home, the need to contribute financially to their family. they decided not to apply this year. host: our guest is writing about how difficult the procedure of applying to college has become during the pandemic. we welcome calls and comments, here is how we are breaking down the lines. if you are applying to college, the line is (202) 748-8000. if you're a college student or parent of a college student (202) 748-8001. for all others (202) 748-8002. you're right about -- you write about guidance counselors. "if all stew erica clark to help

reverse that trend. she is a guidance counselor in atlanta, shepherding 90 seniors through college applications. she cannot bolster its out of class arrest him stop by her office anymore. she tries to gauge how they are feeling over soup and she has lost countless nights of sleep worrying. she checked out one student on the job at footlocker to get her to complete a missing form." guest: i talked to several counselors who described the links they went through resumes where they are. for erica clark that involved driving to footlocker, to get her to complete a form on the spot. counselors across-the-board found it more difficult to meet students, texting them, calling them, this victim -- visiting them at the home.

some had completion events to have a socially distanced event to complete those forms. and come up with a college plan. across-the-board, counselors were dealing with an extra challenge. there were not able to pull a student out of the class, start them in the hallway. on the other end of that, even before the pandemic there were not enough counselors. some do not have a counselor at all. many were outnumbered. while that is difficult in a normal year, it becomes or challenging -- more challenging when they are not in person and they are trying to communicate entirely over email or text message. host: how have colleges and universities responded? have any responded to the economically disadvantaged kids

applying? what have colleges done? guest: i talk to leaders at the state university of new york, they saw a drop off in applications this year. particularly among students of color. to try to combat that, they started an outreach program targeted at underrepresented high school students. they waved application fees for all low income students automatically. they launched a freak online job-training and college prep program for low income new yorkers. hopefully being more proactive about reaching out to stews, lifting the barriers that might have prevented them from applying. it remains to see how effective that was. we will know more when we look at what their freshman class looks like for fall 2021. that is an example of how universities are responding. i talked to the leader of

compton college in california, high community college with primarily black and latino students. they saw a significant drop off in enrollment. about 25% compared to the previous year. they started reaching out to students who were previously enrolled and withdrew. to try to offer more financial aid and give them the support. find out why they took time off. and what support they needed. they also boosted the relationship with high schools in the area to hopefully connect more directly. host: people can read the article at time.com. it also in the magazine, the cover page is, "the last year." i believe that is a student you talk to, what drew you to her? guest: twyla spoke to someone of the challenges that students were facing.

she was furloughed from her job when the pandemic hit. she burned through much of the money that she was saving for college and became worried about affordability. she was learning remotely and did not have as much one-on-one time with guidance counselors. and did not know her teachers well. she missed out on seasons of varsity track and cross-country. she did not get to take the sat or act like many students. at one point she considered whether it would be worth to go to college at this time or made sense to wait and continue working. she did apply to college, she'll be going to the university of new york in the fall and is excited. she became indicative of the challenges that students are facing this year. host: i think it's important to point out what you write about in the magazine, what that loss means.

you're right that, "students in low income households were more likely to cancel plans to take college classes than those in high income classes. which is why experts were that students who are foregoing colors are the ones who need higher education the most. americans with just a high school diploma face higher rates of unemployment and turn $7,300 less each year than those with an associates or bachelors degree." do those figures surprise you? guest: this disproportionately affected low income students and students of color. because higher education is an important tool for economic mobility, it has experts worried that those who are foregoing college education are the same students who might most benefit from getting that degree. for all of the recent you

mentioned, schools feel it is important for them to try to target them. the state university of new york, i spoke with someone there, he says it feels like a moral obligation for universities to respond and recruit low income students who are not attending college now. in an ideal world, higher education serves ulcers, not just those from higher income families, parents who have a college education, if those suits are not attending college in higher numbers, it hurts them and their future options, earning potential. it hurts the university system which relies on student enrollment and tuition for their revenue. it hurts society at large. host: if you are a student applying to colleges, we would like to hear from you in particular (202) 748-8000. students, college scenes and

parents that line is (202) 748-8001. all others (202) 748-8002. katie reilly is our guest with time magazine. we will go to claudia, a student in miami. caller: good morning. i am a veteran college student. thank you for the teachers and staff helping us, through the process of covid. i want to say, i agree with what the lady was saying that being uneducated contributes more to inequality. it is really -- to hear about

the social injustices and issues that we have in the united states. if we all had more of an opportunity, especially those in underserved communities to have higher education we would a different -- be a different society. this is not about socialism, this is about giving people a chance to try and have a better opportunity. if you want to talk about people, let's treat people like people, let's do that. that's all, thank you. host: okay claudia. any thoughts? guest: thank you so much for the call. i heard a similar sentiments about the motivation to go to college, knowing that it would be a better opportunity for themselves and families. especially first generation

college goers whose parents did not have the opportunity. in the face of obstacles this year, that was a motivating factor. knowing the difference i could make. host: as a parent who is glad to not have to fill out the fafsa, interesting to read about the free application for financial student aid applications declined. you what are some saying that this is the canary in the coal mine. why is this an indicator? guest: the fafsa completion rate being down this year was a real concern for experts who track college access. it is one of the first indicators of what the fall 2021 freshman class might look like. kim cook called it the canary in the coal mine because it is in indicator of if students will enroll.

if they're not completing the form, they might not get the aid they need. even if they get accepted to college. seeing those numbers fall, especially in high numbers, hospitals surveyed low-income zunes and students of color is reinforcing that this is disproportionately affecting those communities and worsening gaps for students already underrepresented. host: in orlando, florida, rose, good morning. caller: good morning. it is important for sins to get their education and better job. it is important for community college, community colleges important. then they can learn a trade and thought can get them a good job. i think the covid -- eventually

it will subside to the point where we can get back to normalcy. host: in your reporting, your reporting on students applying to all sorts of colleges? guest: community colleges are often a desirable option for that reason. during economic downturns, college enrollment goes up as more people who are unemployed returned to college to get better skills and training that will allow them to be employable afterwards. this year but that -- bucked that. experts were surprised by the drop enrollment and community college. it is interesting to see if that changes. i talked to counselors who felt that it was their responsibility to make sure that since were aware of all options right now. it is not just that they have to go to a four university community college programs, vocational programs are good

options. the goal is making sure that students are not turning away from higher education because of the obstacles the pandemic introduced. they want to have the opportunity to get some degree beyond high school. there are indications that it is important for their employability down the road. almost 100% of the jobs. in the wake of the great recession required post high school credentials. -- almost 1% of the jobs created in the wake of the great recession required post high school credentials -- 100% of the jobs created in the wake of the great recession required post high school credentials. caller: i think it takes perseverance and diligence, i do not think you stopped because it

gets hard. my grandson is working and going to school. he is doing well. you do not just stop because it gets hard. i do not care what color you are host: your response? guest: a lot of students are working and attending high school right now for college. students stay enrolled in college, it shows how much financial hardship that were facing. the hope center for communities, college and justice without studies showing just how much -- how many, 40% of enrolled students were facing housing insecure, 40% were facing food insecurity. there are students doing both, staying committed but still facing enormous challenges on

the path to complete those degrees. the federal coronavirus relief valve that was passed -- relief bill that was passed directed $40 billion to colleges and universities regarding half of that goes to emergency finalization -- financial aid for helping them stay enrolled, paper housing and hopefully stay on the track to graduate. host: you mentioned this earlier, one of the suits you write about is kimberly in boston. she says that, "i go from filling out applications to checking and filling out a rental assistance application. she cried out of relief when she got her first hours acceptance letter." has she decided where she is going? guest: she is planning on going to school, i do not know where she has decided to attend. she was one of the suits will be

the first and her family to attend college. she was applying to college this year. a lot of unusual obstacles, but she felt motivated to pursue her own career goals and be able to support her family and be the first and her family to graduate. she was dealing with housing and security concerns, wearing about paying rent. it became an example of how the simultaneous crises affected students on their homework assignments, tests and applications. host: also applying to college is police in maryland. good morning. caller: it might be unrelated a little bit. when i was in high school i was not taught about all of the u.s. accredited schools outside of

the mainland and other u.s. territories, -- that is something i did personally. i was able to graduate out of college without any student loan. fafsa applied to those colleges, for any students out there, that is an option. it was life-changing. i went from being in that low income to the high income once i graduated with a good job. that is something i wanted to mention. for possible students that can consider that. it is a lot cheaper other. -- out there. host: your response on that and has the pandemic provided an opportunity for colleges and

universities to make courses online? guest: i am not family with those exact programs but i do great a lot of students, graduating without student debt is appealing. the idea of taking on student debt as part of what deters students from enrolling in college. knowing that could set them back in the future. that is something other students could be considering. host: northbrook, illinois, bill. go ahead. caller: good morning. for many years, i have interviewed college applicants for a prestigious college. this year it had to be done on zoom. which was inferior.

what has bothered me the most, i think that there is a massive change in how people are admitted to college. i did not think it has been revealed. i see some of the admission numbers by race -- when you interview somebody, you have very little information. one used two have a lot of information to guide you. as i interviewed the candidates -- to me the point was the harder he worked in high school -- you worked in high school,

extracurricular activities, it improves your odds. i am not sure that the old time religion is there. something has changed. host: pre-pandemic, you would have interviewed these students in person correct? caller: i would. i remember 60 years ago, i was interviewed, a gentleman came to my home. my mother -- we were together -- it is different. the standards on how people are being picked a nut necessarily -- do people come from a disadvantaged background? have they demonstrated that

they got a job and worked after school. host: bill in illinois. any response? guest: the college application process became competitive this year. there was a dichotomy in how colleges were expressing the trend. the most selective universities sought record applications, for suits competing for those schools, they apply to more schools than usual. one counselor compared it to lottery tickets. on the opposite end, some other universities and community colleges saw a drop off. i heard from counselors who described seeing this within their own school beings, students from wealthier families who never wavered from applying to college, just work considering how to do that strategically this year when so much of the process changed. on the observed -- on the

opposite end, scenes from lower income families facing uncertainty about whether it was worth it to attend college if classes were online. is this affordable? do i need to stay home and help my family? that range of experience shows that students are not getting the same opportunities to attend college as wealthier peers. that is something that came up again and again. the caller mentioned different factors administration -- admission officers take into account, that change this year because many universities waived s.a.t. and act testing requires. which regards the record application numbers. because of the intricacies of remote learning over the last year, grading patterns looked different. a lot of schools in the last spring semester had a pass or fail grading system.

that makes things harder for universities to compare how well students are doing. extracurricular activities which are a big part of an application, to show what they are passing about and spend their time, a lot of sports and other extracurricular activities were not happening. because of social distancing necessities. that made it difficult for universities to parse the differences between students and figure out who students might be. host: this drop of applications income to college in coptic, california serving mostly black and latino students. enrollment felt 27 point 5% for all of 2020 compared to the last year. "i expected a decline in enrollment but not this." "the school is working on a route students who work enrolled in the string at 2020 but

withdrew during the pandemic, improving partnerships with k-12 districts to connect with students." is that being followed at any other community college? they have a good idea of who their potential student body is. guest: i a lot of community colleges are connected to their community. the high school where the students are coming from. that is a solution that is going on. to recruit directly. know what their options are, provide them with more financial aid, to make the path easier. there was a lot of discussion about the fact that for students who did not enroll in college this year will not be in 2021, it would be a mistake to assume that they will enroll later. i a lot of colleges are to have to be doing outreach -- i think a letter colleges are going to have to be doing outreach to them, letting them know about

scholarships, degrees they offer into career options. we will see colleges being more proactive about reaching out to students who decided to not enroll this year. or withdrew during the pandemic. host: joanne from south dakota, welcome. caller: yes. i want to support the comment that she made earlier about people going for the trade industry. my son he has his bachelors degree. . we moved to the city all he could do was get a front desk clerk, fast food job. that did not work for him. when the pandemic hit, he got laid off. he drew unemployment. he went back to school. he went to a local technical, private school. he got his degree.

during that time, the school accommodated them. they started in the classroom then they went to online classes. he finished and is now working as an electrician, apprentice. host: great to hear. guest: thanks joanne. that kind of pathway, when people are laid off or unemployed, returning to college to get a new skill, charisma reports experts expected to happen. it did not happen as large -- in as large of numbers. historically that is the pathway that works and what higher education is trying to offer. a four year degree is not the be-all, end-all solution for suits. there are plenty of other certification programs, vocational programs that can help students get the career they want.

and have better earning potential. host: this might be beyond the realm of your reporting for this article, what we know about the last year for students younger than seniors? the rising sophomores and freshmen in high school? what was lost? guest: the debate over how and whether school should reopen has been a contentious topic for the last year. many students have been remote a full year. we have better numbers showing that more than half of k-8 students are offering full-time, in person learning. we know that there are differences in which schools are open in person and which are remote. throughout the year, rural schools have been more likely to reopen in person.

black students, hispanic students, asian students are less likely to be learning in person. even when the option is available. that seems to indicate that the communities hardest hit by covid-19 have been more hesitant to take the risk by sending their children back. a complete to a lack of trust that school districts were prepared to keep their children safe. educators and counselors are aware the fact that students will need a lot of social, emotional, mental health support because of how much they have lost. whether they are grieving the loss of a loved one or have been missing the lack of routine and time with friends. that will be a big focus as more children come back into the classroom. making sure they have the

support they need to succeed, the tutoring or extra help support the might need to make up for lost learning. host: about 10 more minutes with our guests, whose future peace is looking at how the pandemic has disrupted the college application process. we would like to hear from those of you who are applying to colleges. that line is (202) 748-8000. if you're a parent of a college student or are a college student that is (202) 748-8001. carrie ville, texas is next up with marsha who is a college parent. go ahead. caller: i am a grandmother of twin girls who are graduating from high school this year. seniors. they are bright kids. they're applied to five or six colleges. the amount of stress, essays, things they had to do in order to apply to college is daunting.

for kids who are financially not able to do this easily, i think it is psychologically stressful to keep writing that i am poor. how do you feel about that? guest: congratulations to your granddaughters. it is a daunting process for a lot of students. especially this year. the common application used by more than 900 colleges have a question about houses were affected by the pandemic of 19 that provides commentary about loss and financial instability and grief. that can be tougher students to delve into -- tough for suits to delve into. a gives colleges an opportunity to be aware of the full experience over the last year. to be able to offer an explanation of why rates fell. if they had a parent that passed away due to covid-19 work

dealing housing -- or dealing with housing instability. can be important to consider with test scores, gpas, sat and act scores. they are not a full indication of who students are. host: on the sat, one of the suits you write about, she missed her sat date. she was able to apply to a couple of colleges that do not require those tests. guest: she was not able to take the sat. her test date canceled. many places were not offering it because of the challenges of making it socially distanced and safe. hundreds of students waived testing requirements this year. there has been a movement to make the tests optional before

the pandemic. critics argue that the test unfairly advantage wealthier families who can afford tutors and private test prep courses. the last year has been an experiment in whether the test optional policies could boost diversity. in the colleges and incoming freshman classes. we know through earlier data that suggest that top colleges have admitted a more diverse class this year than in the past. it is hard to tell how related that is. that will be something that is interesting to watch going forward. it could be worth considering sticking around after the pandemic. it is worth having test optional policies to increase access for students who have been underrepresented. host: in manteca, california,

cheryl. caller: i am a college grandparent. i have watched my grandson maneuver through this situation with covid. enrolling in college, going to college and having to put things on hold. i would like to comment that the problem for a lot of the students is confusion. what they have been through in this pandemic. the misinformation around the pandemic. at one point it was we had a pandemic, no we did not. it has been a lot of confusion. when there is confusion, it makes it difficult to figure out how to maneuver. the job market is down.

a lot of the students are working and trying to go to school. possibly losing their job with hours getting cut back. there was a difficult time for them. if you were in college or think about going to college, at this point, we should support everything we possibly can to help the students get on track. some of them are working so hard. it is like they are spinning their wheels. this is costing them more. host: is your grandson working as well? caller: he is going to school, he came back from a four year college, went to a two-year college, got his degree there. now he is enrolled in higher

education. now he is working two part-time jobs. and going to school. host: good luck to him. thank you for your experience. guest: a lot of students are experiencing that confusion as they balance competing responsibilities. a lot of students described how tough it has been to figure out next steps in the midst of uncertainty and turmoil. it is hard to focus on signing on for zoom and 8:30 in the morning in the middle of a pandemic when you're worried about the health of your family. a lot of students have been consumed by racial injustice and the protests that have been going on across the country. the violence that has affected so many communities. i talked to a lot of counselors who describe that. all of these affecting students

making it more difficult to concentrate a figure out what they want to do next. that's where a lot of support from counselors come in, to make sure that they are aware of their actions, completing their financial aid forms. that might be an option that they are not aware is available to them. confusion was definitely a recurring feeling of the last year. i talked to a student in florida who mentioned the pandemic killed his ambition for school. and the other thinks he had a passion for. a lot of students have been feeling that as they feel more isolated from friends and lost contact with teachers or coaches. host: charles next from bartlett, ohio. caller: how are you doing? host: fine. go ahead. caller: is anybody looking at

the possibility of using some of this stimulus to educate or have them hire these underprivileged and lower income people or kids to integrate them into businesses? give them an opportunity to learn -- to go to higher education. primarily in my area, i would like to see a lot more people going to trade school. we have hundreds of thousands of electricians, auto tech jobs that are open. host: i will let you go. on thus, the president has proposed two free years of community college for suits. what is that likely to do to some of these students that you

write about? guest: college affordability has been a concern for many years. the pandemic made it worse. the advocate for college access is hoping the plan to make community college free would go along way towards boosting access to higher education for low income students and first-generation college goers, people who have been shut out of higher education in the past. there is hope this would help encourage them to pursue that degree, knowing they would not have to take on debt. host: the piece is available on time.com. katie riley, author of the piece, thank you for coming this morning. guest: thank you for having me. host: that will wrap up the program. we will be back tomorrow at 7:00

a.m. eastern. hope all the mothers will have a happy mother's day tomorrow. have a great weekend. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] ♪