heritage foundation. >> china knows what it wants. as xi jinping puts it, the china dream of great revival of the chinese people. what that means is, xi jinping sees a china that is going to return to being the dominant power in asia. and a major power is not the major power, of the world. >> more of our conversation on c-span's, the weekly. listen and follow whatever you get your favorite podcast. >> every monday on washington journal we take a closer look into the issue of coronavirus. today we focus on children and vaccines. this is the headline this morning from usa today, parents are cautious on shots for kids, in large part because of hesitancy, the uncertainty over vaccines. joining us from philadelphia is dr. paul offit, the director of

the food and drug administration visor committee and from philadelphia, thanks for being with us. why hesitancy by parents for the covid-19 vaccine? >> i think parents should be skeptical of anything that they put into their children's bodies. there was a study that was done by pfizer for children. 2300 children were divided. the vaccines induced excellent immune responses. there were 18 cases of covid in that study. i'm sure that the parents were very happy that their children were in the vaccine group and not the placebo group. that way their children had a 0% chance of suffering from covid.

host: you are the author of the book deadly choices, how it threatens us all. who is behind this movement? >> it is a well-funded movement that is specifically trying to provide misinformation to the public to scare them away from vaccines. i have been writing about the anti-vaccine movement for years. there is nothing that they could have done that surprised me, but this surprises me. you have a pandemic that has infected many people. it is on its way to killing as many as 600,000 people in this country. you have a vaccine that is remarkably effective but they do everything they can to dissuade people from getting the vaccine, even though the virus has economically brought us to our knees.

host: an added element from the wall street journal, that 10 day pause from johnson in and johnson. just how damaging was that for johnson & johnson and for this objective of getting more americans vaccinated? >> it tells you that they are committed to making sure that these vaccines are as safe as possible. they are completely transparent. roughly one in a million people who got the vaccine have blood clots that could be serious. a theoretical million people who get covid, 5000 will die, yet people here that one in a million chance that they could be hurt by the vaccine, knowing they have a greater chance of blood clots from the virus and

people are more scared of the vaccine. we did not do a good job of explaining relative risks. host: we are inviting our phone lines,% and for others, --host: --(202) 748-8000 and for our others, (202) 748-8001. these are some of the works. where are we, in terms of getting young people vaccinated between the ages of 12 and 17? >> visors submitted for approval.

presumably, i know that they will be meeting on the 12th to discuss this. it should be and moments that parents should be able to vaccinate their children. host: you are on the fda advisory committee. tell us how it works. guest: these products will initially be submitted for authorization. they go through different studies. the phase 3 three study that everybody hears about is about tens of thousands of people who did not get the vaccine. usually 100 plus page documents,

reviewing the data and have their own interpretation to make sure nothing is missed. we meet for a day and ask our questions. host: why is johnson & johnson a single dose and moderna and pfizer are two doses? guest: you want to induce high levels of antibodies. you want to induce something called cellular immunity. that usually predicts longer-lasting immunity. johnson & johnson was capable of doing that after a single dose. the mrna only happened after the second dose. host: a vaccine for a child versus an adult? what are the differences? guest: for the 12 to 15-year-old, it is not surprising that the dose used is

exactly the same as the 16 to 17-year-olds. biologically, there is not a big difference in those two groups. six years of age and younger, they will be more extensive. the 12 to 15-year-old -- host: is there any risk of toddlers or newborns getting vaccines? guest: it is possible. children are infected less frequently. 3.2 one million children have already been in effect did by this virus. there is another disorder that we often see which is frightening. it usually happens in children around 14 years old. they start off with a trivial infection.

they are tested as positive even though they have no symptoms. they have antibodies in their bloodstream. at the same time, they have high fever. it is pretty frightening to watch. if any parent wants to convince themselves, they should come around to the covid ward and see what it looks like. host: let's look ahead to the fall and winter. every year we are advised to get a flu shot. can you imagine in the short term, in the next year or two, we would be required to get a covid shot? guest: i think the issue of what -- whether you would be required to get it is an important question. i think that for now, it would be perfectly reasonable to

mandate the vaccine for everyone through high school. it would keep the children safe but also did teachers save. there are many that cannot be vaccinated because they have chemotherapy. they depend on those around them to protect them. host: let's get to your phone calls. rudy is joining us from bowling green, ohio. caller: good morning. i just want to say that i will be having my 12-year-old son get the vaccine as soon as it is available. it would be one less thing that i have to worry about. he is healthy and we have all gotten the vaccine in my household. my daughter got the vaccine as soon as she was available. they should all have no issues

getting the vaccine for their children. host: thank you. guest: thank you. i wish everyone was like you. while it is ok to be skeptical about a vaccine, there is enough data. skepticism -- if you are still saying, i do not believe in these vaccines, you are not skeptical, you are cynical. you do not trust the government or the medical community. there is abundant evidence. host: let's go to north carolina. caller: i wanted to ask what is in the vaccines. there is a lot of information out there.

i was wanting to know, if it is so safe, why did the fda not approve it? that is why people are afraid of taking it. there is a lot of technology that states that it is not safe to take it. i heard that it changes your dna. the people need to know exactly what is in the vaccines. the pharmacist cannot tell us. they do not know. we would really appreciate it. host: we will get a response. guest: there were a few things. the first is that these are currently approved. i will tell you what is not different.

one thing that is not different is the size of the trial. it is a typical size for any adults. to the safety follow-up, it is identical. two months after the last dose. they can have serious side effects. that is no different. the only real difference is the length of time for efficacy follow-up. they could say that they were highly effective for a few months. they could not say they were effective for a few years, which is usually what happens. on the other hand, 5000 people plus that died last year, you are not going to do a two to three year study. it is likely to be highly effective for longer, which we

are already learning is true. the fact of the matter is, they will be licensed by the end of the summer. there -- this is where the anti-vaccine movement went. they convince people like you that there are stem cells, which is not true. it is messenger rna. it is a small piece of genetic material. the way this vaccine works, there is a small fatty droplet. that messenger rna is taken into the cytoplasm itself, outside the nucleus where it joins other copies of messenger rna inside, as your body makes enzymes to keep itself alive. that messenger rna is translated to a protein. your body makes this spike

protein. that protein is made for a couple days and the messenger rna disintegrates. the third issue is that it alters your dna. it is a genetic vaccine. normally when you are trying to induce a response, you give the spike protein. you give a form of the virus like a polio vaccine or you give a live, weakened form of the virus. it is a remarkably effective way of an inducing the immune response. they are more than 90% effective among all age groups and all comorbidity. these vaccines have been given in more than 200 million doses.

i do not know what more people could ask. this is as close to a perfect vaccine as you can get. regarding changing your dna, the dna is in the nucleus. in order for it to altered dna, it has to get into the nucleus, which it cannot do. it would have to be reversed transcribed. it would have to look like dna, which would mean it would have to be reverse transcribed. even if it did happen, which it cannot, it would have to be integrated into dna, which it also does not have. very easy to raise this notion. you have a better chance of becoming spider-man than having it in any way alter your dna. people just keep throwing things

up against the wall. stem cells or that it will alter your dna. people say, i do not think i will get it. this vaccine is our only way out of the pandemic. we will be dealing with the pandemic for many years because we are only -- of those out there, most have not given a single dose of vaccine to their populists. we will be dealing with this for a while. you will have a couple choices, whether to get vaccinated or not. host: we are talking to a pediatrician with the children's hospital of philadelphia. he is a member of the fda advisory committee. one nonvoting members serves as a representative. this position is four years.

velma is joining us from wisconsin. are you with us? we will move on to eric from maryland. caller: good morning. thank you so much for what you do. i already got my vaccine. i appreciate the work that you guys do. i have a question. my home country is nigeria. we are low in hygiene and a lot of things. back home it shows that -- we are low in hygiene. some say there is because there is no testing. there is no funeral every friday. this is in nigeria.

is there something that could be learned from where the deaths are not happening? is there a way to find out? there is no death. i do not know if you get what i am saying. if there is something that can be researched, like researchers were sent to china or other countries to see what they are doing there. guest: great question. this virus spreads separate. virus is -- it does not matter how careful you are. if you are out there and talking to someone infected, they will be at risk. in terms of nigeria not being hit hard right now, give it

time. india, when it was sweeping across europe and southeast asia , did not suffer this disease very much and than they did. in fact, it is now catastrophic in india. give it time. if he to be oh years go by and there are certain countries that have not suffered this at all, that would be worth a second look, but i worry that every country is at risk. host: lisa, you are on aaron. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to ask you, specifically, what is the genetic material in the vaccine? the mrna? also, with regard to the trials, i wanted to ask, where do these

countries get those trials? if the vaccine has been effective against the additional strains that have occurred, once those people did get the vaccine? host: thank you for the questions. this is from steve. how is work going on protein-based? steve is interested in comparing the effectiveness on sustained antibody levels. your response? guest: there are a few things in there. we all make messenger rna. it is what is used to make proteins. when we were able to sequence the virus, in january of 2020, it is a single-stranded messenger rna virus.

if you can make antibodies, the virus cannot bind to the cells and cannot infect you. that is what that is. it is a small piece of genetic material that makes protein and is taken up by certain subtypes that travel to the draining lymph node. this vaccine does induce vigorous response. many people get swelling of lymph node in their armpit. we give a lot of vaccines through shots. it is much more common here. it will be interesting to see whether we can translate that to other vaccines like malaria or the universal flu vaccine.

we will know that much more in the next few years. the fda will not approve a drug unless it is tested in the u.s. you want to make sure that the trials look american. you have a good representation, that you have adequate representation of those 55 years of age or older. they were done for the most part in the u.s. what you can say with comfort is that these vaccines will work very well against.uk variant. they work a little less well against some of these other variants like the south african variant, but they still work extremely well in preventing

severe critical disease. that is good. there is not one that has been completely resistant. the last question asked was about these protein vaccines. there is a company called novavax. instead of giving the gene, you give the protein itself. novavax has done those trials. the preliminary data is promising. they have not been submitted for approval. host: this is from lizzie. if this is safe as you are saying, why are many doctors not taking the vaccine and advising patients not to get it? guest: i certainly have not experienced that at all.

99% of the physicians asked to get the vaccine get it. i do not know anyone who does not recommend it. this vaccine is the only way out of the pandemic. the data is clear that this vaccine is safe and effective. that might be a trope put out there by the act -- anti-vaccine movement. host: annette is joining us from philadelphia. caller: i hope this is not a repeat question. i just turned on the tv. if you are diagnosed with covid today, how are you treated at home? if you are hospitalized, are you only treated once your sites drop and you require oxygen?

guest: if you have symptoms associated with covid and you are home, and you do not require hospitalization, there is not a specific treatment other than prevention. if you are hospitalized, it depends on your degree of lung involvement. generally you will be treated with dexamethasone. it is a steroid that is helpful in this situation. that is the difference. host: this is praise for you from another person saying, what a great guest. thank you for taking the time to be with us. i will go to steve in newburgh, indiana. caller: thank you for what you are doing for us. i recovered from the virus in

october and tested positive for antibodies in december. i am not against vaccine and i support the use. since i have immunity, is there any belief that getting the vaccine now would provide additional immunity? guest: that is a great question. you could argue that when this virus started killing people at the beginning of march, people looked at one thing. are there people infected with the virus who upon re-exposure get sick? if that happens, you will have a hard time making a vaccine. strep throat, you can get it again and again. that was not true here. if you look at something recent, they looked at people like you to answer the question, what is the half-life of antibodies?

they are predictive of protection. cellular immunity also were fairly high and had a long life. probably the answer to the question is that natural immunity may well induce an immune response as good as vaccination. in case of that, you would not need a vaccine. they said -- they did not want to add a bureaucratic level of having everyone getting tested to see if they had antibodies. also, there have been three studies, one of which was published, looking at those who were infected who got one dose and had a response from the second dose.

people who are naturally affected are protected for a few years. similarly, people who are vaccinated are likely to be protected for a few years. one dose is probably all you need, but the cdc has not weighed in on this yet. caller: i was just wondering if the technology that produced the vaccines, if some of that technology or some kind of technology could be used for cancer. could they come up with a vaccine or antibody for cancer based on this technology? guest: great question and the answer is yes. cancer cells survive because your body does not adequately recognize and kill them. could you construct an mrna

particle and put it in this fatty droplet to direct it to the cancer cell and have it make a protein that makes it easier for that cancer cell to be recognized and killed? yes. they said this is not only good for vaccines, but a benefit for possible immunotherapy. host: can you put this moment into perspective, the significance of having this vaccine within a year of when the pandemic began? guest: if you asked, whether in january of 2020, when this was first sequenced, do you think that we will have completed two large clinical trials with a technology that has never been used commercially before and find that the vaccine is very much effective against all

matter of illness, including all comorbidities, i do not think he would have found anyone on this planet. dr. fauci said we are optimistic that the vaccines can be 70% effective. that is the thing that amazes me the most. nobody imagined the vaccine would be this good and not have any side effects. i wanted them. you have this virus that has created pathological surprises. the technology had never been used commercially before. what could go wrong? the other shoe has not dropped. the father of modern vaccines is either the inventor or producer of nine of the 14 vaccines that we currently give to young

children. he said, i never breathe a sigh of relief until the first million doses are out there. now it is just a matter of getting people to do it and to get these vaccines. the battle against this virus is becoming a battle against ourselves, the misinformation out there. about stem cells or how doctors do not want to get the vaccine. it is the usual nonsense that come up to try to convince us to do something that puts us in harm's way, unnecessarily. host: about one third of americans have been vaccinated so far. john from chantilly, virginia. caller: thank you for taking my call. thank you for everything that you do for us. i got my two shots, pfizer.

how long will this medication work? my second question is, i get so angry when i watch rand paul. he calls himself a doctor. this is the man who is deceiving people. he got his shot and now, he is our lawmaker. how do you fight somebody who makes the laws of this country, yet he lies to the american people? he got his medication and he is not telling the people the truth? what can we do about this? guest: what can we do about politicians who do not tell us the truth? i wish i knew. he is not the only one. as far as immunity, it is hard to make predictions. it is elusive, but i am encouraged by the level of antibodies and the high

frequency of cellular immunity. i will predict that it will last for a few years. we will probably need a yearly vaccine? i do not believe that, but i would be surprised if it were as frequent as yearly. host: one of the questions asked by a moderator is, what will a new normal look like as we move beyond the pandemic and return to life as we once knew it. >> covid will not disappear, but it will be reduced. i think we are at the point in time when we can start lifting these. people have to take precautions and own their own risk. we have always said that we

would set a metric. half the country is there right now. if you want to be more conservative, this week, about a quarter of the states will be there. we could start lifting these ordinances. certainly outdoors, we should not be putting limits on gatherings anymore. vaccination rates are high and we have good testing in place. we could probably start lifting restrictions indoors as well. host: your response? guest: if we lived on a planet that operated on the basis of logic and reason, i would agree with that. i fear that there is a lot of did nihilism out there. there are a lot of people who deny the impact of the virus and

the importance of the vaccine. if you go outdoors with any large crowd of people, look at the atlanta braves game a couple nights ago. it was a packed house. nobody was wearing a mask. i have to believe that a large percent of that group is on and it is likely that some of those people were shedding coronavirus. if you are going to allow these events to occur, it would be nice -- i would not go to a event like that unless i was vaccinated. i would probably still wear a mask because i do not know if i will be exposed to one of these variant viruses because i watch washington journal live every y.