at 230 p.m. eastern, a hearing on the freight industry and its role in helping u.s. supply chains. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? it's way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers to create wi-fi enabled site so students from low income families can be ready for anything. >> comcast support c-span is a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front -- >> coming up this morning on "washington journal," jeremy levin talks about the biden administration's decision

to start waving intellectual property on coronavirus vaccines. and michael farren and judy conti on economic policies under the biden administration, and the effect on job creation. ♪ host: lawmakers have returned to washington this week, and happening up on capitol hill, dr. anthony fauci and dr. rochelle lewinsky -- rochelle wilensky be testifying about the coronavirus. you can see that on c-span, c-span.org, or on the free radio app. we begin on how the pandemic impacted your job status. if you were unemployed and got a job during the pandemic, dial in at (202) 748-8000.

if you've lost a job, (202) 748-8001. if you changed jobs, (202) 748-8002. all others, dial in at (202) 748-8003. you can also text us at that same number with your first name, city, and state, or send us a tweet. you can also join the conversation on facebook.com/c-span. we will get to your thoughts and just a minute. "the wall street journal," "the president disputes the argument that enhanced unemployment benefits are hampering the economy." here is that here he is defending the policy. [video clip] president biden: forecasters are projecting the fastest economic growth in 40 years. we are moving in the right direction. so let's be clear -- our economic plan is working.

i never said, and no serious analyst ever suggested that climbing out of the deep hole our economy was in would be simple, easy, immediate, or perfectly studied. remember, 22 million americans lost their jobs in this pandemic. so some months will exceed expectations, others will fall short. the question is, what is the trendline? are we headed in the right direction and taking the right steps to keep it going? the answer clearly is yes. host: that was the president defending his policy on jobless benefits. listen to the minority leader, mitch mcconnell of kentucky, on the senate floor, talking about what he is seeing in his home state of kentucky when it comes to hiring. [video clip] >> this report was supposed to show that more than a million american workers had gotten back

a job in the month of april. instead, we added about one fourth that many jobs. i just spent the prior week talking with kentuckians. i spoke with workers and employers at nearly every side of business in just about every industry across the spectrum. and from big, national companies to local chambers of comments -- commerce, we heard optimism but also real concerns. concerns about inflation and runaway costs. concerned about backed up supply chains. and if washington pays workers a bonus to stay unemployed, everyone discussed very real concerns about difficulties finding workers who are willing to come back and fill open positions. almost every employer i spoke with specifically mentioned the extra generous jobless benefits

is a key force holding back our recovery. i've heard some democrats say that whatever incentives washington creates, the responsibility falls on workers. but my friends on the others can't use the american people to shield their bad ideas from scrutiny. policy matters. incentives matter. it is may 2021. vaccines are available nationwide. there are millions of jobs open. help wanted signs from coast-to-coast. we should not still be taxing the americans who are working to fund contingent extra benefits for those staying home. host: that's republicans in washington debating the impact of the jobless benefits it is your turn to tell them your story. what has it been like for you

and your job status? if you've got a job, (202) 748-8000. if you lost a job, (202) 748-8001. if you changed jobs, (202) 748-8002. all others dial in at (202) 748-8003. what is it like for you out there? frank in northport, new york. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. my situation, i lost my job before the pandemic, 2018. it was the last man standing. i lost my call -- watched my colleagues lose their jobs from all sourcing touch outsourcing and offshore, but that -- outsourcing and offshore. after i lost the job, tried to

update my skills and get back out and uploaded my resume and have been getting interviews, but just not getting any invites. i think my age has something to do with it at this point. i'm 62 years old. i don't have any evidence to support that. but it's going to be for my wife and me possibly an early retirement. i've been volunteering in the interim to keep busy and to feel good about myself, but i really don't know what else i can do. host: what kind of jobs are you applying for? caller: so i was a computer programmer for 25 years. before that, i was a self-employed musician. the jobs i've been applying for, i tried to send one as project coordination because i used to wear that hat to a degree in my job. i have got the skills and the

certification for all that. but to no avail, i think it has to do with my age. i don't know what else to say, because i have the skills, i have a graduate degree. so anyway, project coordinator is what i have been applying for. host: when you went back and gained some skills for graduate school, was that recently? are you paying student loans? caller: no, that was not recently. that was several years ago, i got a masters in business. the company paid for the degree so it was a no brain or to get the extra touch no-brainer to get the extra education, but hasn't done that much for me. it has helped me as an individual. i learned a lot, but otherwise, it hasn't helped me in the sense of getting a job.

i'm not a super aggressive person. i don't have that character, don't have that personality, and perhaps that part -- perhaps that's part. i really don't know. i am sort of in a limbo, on the cusp kind of situation. host: what could washington do for you? what could lawmakers do for you? caller: i think they tried to do things. there was a law one point where companies were allowed to employ at less money. we will offer you less money because otherwise we will have to fire you altogether. nobody ever brought it to my attention and it was never utilized. it would have been great, had companies done something like that the obama administration came up with that idea, if i'm not mistaken, and nobody used

it. i had a contract job recently and it was foreign indian consulting firm. -- it was for an indian consulting firm. i've seen the jobs outsourced. host: miami, florida, don lost the job -- lost a job. caller: thank you to c-span. i've been watching for 14 months and it has been interesting. i'm a retired public school science teacher, but after i retired i found immediately a nice dig in the tourism industry in the miami area. the company was great, nice to me. they let me travel. it was part-time. they gave me a car, cell phone, and i go to south beach in the morning, go to malls in the

afternoon. it was a fun job, no complaints. they even put me on their 401(k). host: have they been in touch with you? caller: no, i was laid off in march and let go at the end of the fiscal year in october, which i expected. life has been good. everybody has their health. the interesting thing is the cruise ships want to get going, which is a big industry, number one in florida, yet our governor and republican legislatures and senators are fighting against it. as far as not allowing vaccine passports, for example, so it's kind of ridiculous to watch this hypocrisy. host: so without a vaccine passports, these cruise ships what, can't go into other ports without passengers having these? caller: they don't want to leave out of miami unless they realize

everyone's vaccinated. maybe down the road a few months later, restrictions can be lifted, but apparently to get going, you want to make sure everyone's vaccinated on board. host: diane, ohio. what's it like where you live? caller: well, of course, there's still a lot of people that are apprehensive about working, especially when it comes to women and their children and of course, half the schools are back. i wanted to say, though, that it sounds like to me mitch mcconnell saying that his kentucky people are lazy, and we know better than that, but that's the way republicans feel anyway about the united states americans. they don't deserve living wages, in their opinion. republicans better cut it out because otherwise, they will never get anywhere anymore.

host: diane, you started talking about women getting back to work and childcare concerns. the president address those yesterday. [video clip] president biden: we are going to provide real help for childcare, which is making it hard for many parents who need to work, especially women, get back to work. during this crisis, thousands of childcare providers and centers were forced to close because they couldn't make ends meet with fewer students and higher costs to keep them safe. as a result, parents lost support -- lost the support system they depended on for child care. tens of thousands of childcare workers lost their jobs. in fact, there are 150,000 fewer childcare jobs now than there were pre-pandemic. the american rescue plan has already allocated funds to

states to address the immediate challenge to our economy and of too few childcare operations. this is the largest investment in childcare since world war ii. today, my administration is releasing guidance to states to help get the funds they need out the door as quickly as possible to allow dramatic expansion and availability of childcare in this country. with these funds, states can help hundreds of thousands of providers reopen and stay open, and provide safe and healthy learning environments for more than 5 million children. host: the president yesterday -- and if you back him up on his remarks on what is happening with childcare, or what has happened with childcare during this pandemic, dial in. tell us what it's like trying to go back to work but also find care for your child, or if you disagree with him, we want to

know. larry in lafayette, indiana, your thoughts. caller: i've been out of work for over five years due to a back injury and i've been applying for disability, and i've been denied going on six times -- going on seven now. and the red tape, the way in congress, they should be able to fix it. they want to pay them benefits for just coming over. are they not going to the back of the line, or are they going to cut all people that have been working, disability, how that will be done, i never heard about it. people that didn't work for 10 years that have been denied for 10 years, and they never had

nobody says a people. host: sue is in glen oak, maryland. caller: i have a disability. i didn't say, i'm not on disability, never been on disability. my disability is somewhat discouraging, which has been complicated by a hospital infection and serious issues since before the pandemic. my husband works full-time and has to devote time to not only helping me receive the care i need, but he's had two parents who were in nursing homes, both of whom died and the nursing homes took an enormous amount of money, the family's life savings. he had siblings in his 50's that died.

had in a normal -- had an enormous amount of hardship and also has health problems. we never received any disability, haven't received our checks. the main thing i want to call about is the there is nobody out there for disabled people, people who have fallen behind due to health care problems. i was hoping that this pandemic would talk about people who have suffered financial damage due to health care costs, which really health care issues have defined mine and my husband's entire adult lives, even though we've tried very hard to keep going. i've never received any disability, and there just is not help for people who get into debt because of health care problems, who lose their life savings because of health care problems, and despite this pandemic, there is no narrative

for disabled people and caregivers. host: do you have an idea of how much you spend on health care a month? caller: oh my gosh, it's outrageous. we pay an enormous amount for insurance. it's just -- but additionally, the nursing home that my husband's father was in took $500,000, his life savings. he does -- he died of covid despite being locked down year. it is devastating, mostly financially, where we are in debt. we just get no help. there is a narrative out there for people like us and i know my husband is having help albums and i'm concerned for him. so it's a bad situation and really, there needs to be, i think, some sort of a support group for people who are

disabled who have serious expenses due to disability. host: thank you for sharing your story this morning. more of your stories are coming up on "washington journal." how has the pandemic impacted your jobs, and what are you seeing and your community, as republicans and democrats debate the effectiveness of unemployment benefits? the president defending them, the republicans saying they are a disincentive to get back to work. much more on that coming up, and your opportunity to tell washington what you think. other news to share. "usa today" -- the minority leader tells house republicans to expect a vote on liz cheney's future as conference chair wednesday. he wrote this -- you should anticipate a vote on recalling the conference chair this wednesday. we are a big ten party,

represent americans of all backgrounds and continue to grow our movement. we embrace free throughout and debate. numbers are elected to represent their constituents at the cfit, but our leaders -- as they see fit. the stakes are too high to come up short. i trust you agree. she's already survived one vote for that leadership position. it is behind closed doors. it is a secret vote. they will take another one on wednesday. the republicans anti-trump group, the republican accountability project released a new ad supporting liz cheney. >> let me get to congresswoman liz cheney. where were you, what did you see when we had to be evacuated? >> the president of the united states sending an angry mob to

attack the capital cannot stand. >> we are going to have a lot of work to do. people have been lied to. president trump, for months, spread the lie that the election had been stolen. it was a judicial process in place. >> trump has lost more than 60 lawsuits following the election. >> we've never seen that kind of assault by the president on another branch of government, and this is not something we can look past or pretend didn't happen. all of us regardless of partisanship have an obligation for a peaceful transition of power. the oath i took is not bend to political pressure. we are the party of lincoln, not qanon or rights of presence -- white supremacy. president trump provoked an account which resulted in five people dying. a person that does not have the leader -- we have to make sure

this never happens again. host: the republican accountability project with that ad. least a phonic is planning -- least a phonic is -- is planning to challenge liz cheney. ♪ >> elise, how is at least doing, new star. -- elise doing, new star. she is an incredible representative. host: republican of new york, in their ad put out. back to our conversation on your job situation, did it change during the pandemic? if so, tell washington how. earl, you lost a job, holmes dale, pennsylvania. caller: i lost my job shortly after this pandemic. i'm still out of work.

if it wasn't for this aid, we would be on the street living in our car. it's just not right. host: what do you say to lawmakers saying, we have to stop these unemployment benefits because it is causing people to not take jobs? caller: tell mr. mccormick he has to get off his butt and start working as representative of the people, not just for his own cause or his party because especially -- party because. -- cause. they should be ashamed. they should -- host: how many times have you applied for jobs? caller: i've filled out

applications, don't know how many. host: what's happening? caller: not getting no bites. host: what kind of jobs are you applying for? caller: i tried getting jobs with walmart, home depot, driving parts and stuff. that is a job i had before i got laid off and i found out, they hired somebody else knew to take my place so i won't be getting called back. host: are you getting any information about why you aren't getting the jobs you are applying for? caller: no, ma'am. host: how much money are you getting it unemployment, and how far does it go? caller: -- dollars every two weeks. host: is it enough to cover your bills? caller: no, ma'am. host: so you are making less or bringing in less than you were earning before?

caller: yes, ma'am. host: maggie, hudson, new york, hi. caller: how are you. host: go ahead and share your thoughts. caller: i'm very lucky that i'm can send you'd -- considered an essential worker. i do taxes for living. in my county where i live, pretty small county, there are many jobs and people are just not applying for them because they get more money on unemployment. host: how do you know that? caller: well, because i don't work, i get unemployment for the short time that i have to be on an eight week furlough so my job doesn't have to pay me benefits. they put us on an eight week furlough. we go on unemployment. i know i am on a facebook page and i know people are saying, we are not going to be going back to work because employers are

calling them back to work and they are not going because they are making more money on unemployment. host: for you and others, take a look at the "associated press" article -- states push jobless from virus recession to return from work -- to work. many employers are telling similar stories. 14 months after covid-19 put hundreds of millions out of work , the economy is rebounding and employers are desperate for workers. employers nationwide added 266 thousand jobs, far fewer than expected. businesses could not find people to find the openings they had to keep up with the rapidly strengthening economic rebound to encourage people to work. people are making it harder for people to stay on unemployment. many blame the easy benefits that followed the pandemic, including $300 supplemental on top of state benefits.

people make more staying home and going back to work. several states have begun requiring those receiving unemployment to show they are actively searching for work, and a few will stop providing the additional federal supplement. not just the hospitality sector is scrambling to fill positions. milford, new hampshire, looking to fill 1500 positions for a facility and another fark alvin ailey, ohio -- four alvin ailey -- alberni, -- president biden on monday talked about this debate over the size of unemployment benefits and whether it is a disincentive. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> it is easy to say the line has been because of the generous unemployment benefits it is a major factor in labor shortages.

americans want to work. americans want to work. as my dad used to say, a job is about more than a paycheck what about your dignity, your place in the community, about being able to look your kid in the eye and say everything is ok. i think people who claim americans won't work even if they find a good and fairy -- good and fair opportunity underestimate the american people. we request the law is followed for benefits and we will not turn our back on fellow americans. 22 million people lost their jobs in this pandemic through no fault of their own. they lost their jobs to a virus and to a government that bundled -- bungled its response and failed to protect them. we still have 8 million fewer jobs than when the pandemic started, and for many of those folks, unemployment benefits are a lifeline.

no one should be allowed to game the system. i insist the law is followed, but let's not take our eye off the ball. families who are just trying to put food on the table, keep the roof over their head, they aren't the problem. we need to stay focused on the real problems in front of us, beating this pandemic and creating jobs. again, the law is clear. if you are receiving unemployment benefits and you're offered a suitable job, you cannot refuse that job and just keep getting the unemployment benefits. host: president biden from yesterday. do you agree or disagree? the enhanced unemployment benefits include $300 in federal additional money per week on top of what you are getting from your state. it is available for those claiming benefits between march 14 and september 6. it is down from the additional $600 per week extended in the

cares act take a look at the unemployment rate from april of last month. overall, 6.1%. when you break it down by race, white, 5.3%. black americans, 9.7%. hispanics, 7.9%. women, 5.6% while men, 5.1%. your job position during the pandemic, william in pennsylvania, good morning. caller: i was a union construction worker all my life. i basically worked in florida and finished up in pennsylvania. i had to collect unemployment two or three times probably in my career, but i always had to see at least five people every week. it was tough, because i had to see union people, and they encourage you to go to -- they want you to bring in information if you want the job.

has that all changed? host: tell me more about that you would have to see your union representative to prove that you couldn't find a suitable job? caller: and it really got tricky because one time i had to collect when there was a hiring halt, and that didn't work out well for the union. it only lasted about nine months. i'm just saying, i can't believe they are not made to go look. not that i disagree. of course, i will be taking the extra money. i have two kids, that goes without saying, but i think the real problem was is when we first had the pandemic, there is no non-essential workers in this country. every job is important to every person who has it. why they did that, if you can work at lowe's with all sorts of people around you but you can't

go to your local restaurant and have a beer in the afternoon, what's the difference? host: senator ben sasse nebraska, republican, he would like to do something about the unemployment benefits. his belief that this is a dissented -- disincentive to work. he wrote -- president biden is all over the place, wants to go after folks gaming the system but denying the reality his policies are making the situation worse. here's the deal -- bad federal policy is making unemployment pay more than work and millions of jobs aren't getting filled. president biden and his party were warned but they doubled down on bad policy. instead of making unemployment pay more than work, we need to convert the benefits into signing bonuses. get america and americans up and

running. he writes this -- he will introduce the new signing bonus act to convert these unemployment benefits, the expanded benefits come into a two month bonus for anyone who gets a job. that's from senator ben sasse, republican of nebraska. sean patrick maloney, the congressman -- during president biden's first three months in office, he averaged 500,000 new jobs a month, the most created in the first 100 days of any u.s. president in recorded history. he said the american rescue plan is working, but it is time for step two. we need to pass the american jobs plan. william -- excuse me, rodney in alabama, we will go to you next. caller: yes, thank you. in my area, the problem is the unemployment benefits.

we have every single business i know including the one i own looking for people, especially entry-level people. they are getting -- basic restaurant workers. minor technicians assistance come -- mine are technicians assistance. you can tell when they come for the interview, they don't want the job it is unbelievable. they are needing more money. in alabama, they are needing more money than we can pay. host: rodney, they have to show that they are actively looking for a job, so they have to show up for interviews, but you are saying they show up but don't want it? caller: we use all kinds of services. we use all these different -- we have job things online and i have 55 employees myself, and we are trying to fill more.

we would hire tomorrow. some of the problems, qualified employees for some of the technical positions i need, but most all the assistants, they are at home making -- by the time you figure alabama's benefits and the federal benefits combined, and this money, if we pay somebody what we can afford to pay and they it -- net it and get to cut their taxes, they make more not working. everybody -- you can drive through every small town from the alabama line all the way to the coast, there are signs up we have a signing bonus and we are paying qualified people huge signing bonuses. we make them work a year, like we will pay the bonus now, half of it now, half when they stay with us for year. we are paying bonuses all the

way down to entry-level, just come to work. we can't find people to work because of that program. i agree with sasse that it is very smart, some kind of help to help. signing bonuses would be great to convert these people. they are not bad people. they just make more money sitting at home. host: give us an idea of how much you would pay someone for an entry-level position, and how much are some of these bonuses. caller: we start at $15 to $20 an hour. we have technicians make more than that. we have paid $2500 signing bonuses and $2500 at the end of the first year. we've had, we are just now trying to see what we can do for entry-level because we can't get people to come for the

interviews, and the people that come do not want the job they do things to make sure they won't get the job of course, we always have a problem. they have to pass -- i'm a drug-free environment. they've got to go for a drug test. we have all the normal things. anyone that's ever run a business understands that. we have an administration that doesn't understand a thing about that it is very tough right now, and i feel for the guy that called, and i know it is not a one-size-fits-all. i know the federal thing is a big issue coming out of the pandemic, but it is a problem, big problem. somehow or another, either like senator sasse said or somebody, it needs to transform into an incentive to get back to work. it is time, and it is really the incentive part -- alabama,

yesterday or the day before, governor ivey cut it out there's been three or four gop governors who has said that's going to stop. host: that was on cnn. that they are going to try. caller: they have to be careful, because there are areas that ed is a lifeline. i know -- he is a lifeline. i know it is not a one-size-fits-all, but we cannot find people to fill jobs. host: you said some of it is a lack of the experience or skill set that you need. if you could control education in this country for a day, what would you have the kids in this country learning? what is the need? caller: wow, ok, all tell you

exactly. we need more vocational training. the program biden chunked the first day has been one of the program -- one of the best programs. we don't have welders or people who can work with their tools. not every child will get a phd or a bachelors degree or whatever. we have a lot that do and it is great, but i watch -- and i have customers too that come in -- i have 22 and 23-year-olds that get an apprenticeship to learn how to pipe fit or to weld or do technical, those kind of things. and we just need more people, more education as it relates to those kind of things. i know that in the future,

technicians that can work on basic carpentry, electrical, construction stuff. there are less and less people that know how to do anything with their hands, and that needs to change, at least to some degree. host: let's go to amy in orange park, florida. your turn. caller: good morning. host: good morning. caller: well, i actually ended up leaving work this year during the pandemic. it was just -- first, i was working from home. then i needed to leave. i started having -- it was really difficult for me to be the -- need to be working from home and i started having emotional trouble, so i took a medical leave. just over this whole year, i've just been reevaluating, and i

think a lot of people are doing that. i've decided not to go back to my profession. i didn't go on unemployment. i was lucky enough, my husband can -- with what we have, we can cover our living expenses. it's tight, but we can do it. so we are re-examining what we truly value in life. i am a little bit of an older mother. i'm 49 and i have a nine-year-old, so also, i just want to be around for my child. i think a lot of people are doing that i think this pandemic -- doing that. i think this pandemic has caused people to do a value exploration. we have the elderly people as well, a lot of people are like,

it is not really worth the whisk -- risk to go back to work until the entire country is really on board with stopping this pandemic. i don't think it's just people are making so much money on unemployment that they don't want to go back. i think people have to feel safe. people have to also feel incentivized and a lot of the -- i see a lot of facebook posts, my friends, people post all the fast food restaurants are upset, saying, we can't get people to come to work. with the elderly people that used to go have part-time jobs for pocket money, they are not coming back, i'm pretty sure. and all the young people, they are going into tech. so they are coding and making a

lot more money than working at mcdonald's. you don't even have to have a high school diploma to code. so these corporate chains like mcdonald's and taco bell, if they want people to come to work , they're going to have to incentivize them. they're going to have to pay them a living wage. they're going to have to provide them health care if we don't get a public option, which i really think that is the answer. if we can get a public option, it would open up and help the job markets. host: sue in winning, new jersey sends a text -- i was upended from my long-standing job. i couldn't continue being a victim as the terms through no fault of my own suggest, but i chose to explore opportunities this situation presents. we need to overcome the fear and anxiety this pandemic has

generated, find solutions, and get people back to work. frank in florida, good morning. caller: yeah, i'd like to say something about all these politicians saying people are scamming the system by taking unemployment. let's look at the federal reserve and what they are doing to corporations. they are buying the corporate debt and encouraging ceos to make aliens of dollars. the -- millions of dollars. they have no problem with that why don't we get interest rates back to where they should be so that people who have savings can earn interest? why is joe biden taking over $250,000 in pension money from the federal government because he was a congressman and a senator? i don't understand how they can speak out of both sides of their mouth. so many things i would love to say, but i don't think i have the time to say them. host: james next, lawrenceburg,

tennessee. what has been your situation during the pandemic? caller: well, i'm retired and work part-time. but to me, the pandemic just highlighted the -- how much america is underpaying the workers. let me clarify by what i'm saying. if this $300 extra payment on the unemployment is causing people to scam the system, as people are saying, it shows american corporations are not paying people a living wage. if the $300 is making them make more than what they would be making on a job, than they are getting paid $300 less than what they should because making them make it, than american

corporations must raise their wages to make a living wage for people to survive. host: we will go to north carolina, oxford, leonard, good morning. you got a job during the pandemic. caller: yes, ma'am, i've had a consistent job for years but i'm off on fmla. i'm underpaid to begin with, because as the caller said, if the wages were not depressed , if we were paid a living wage, in my case, i'm facing back surgery and it would be better for me to go back to work because i feel like i'm in a coffee grinder. they are grinding me into the dirt with a delay. it took me a month to get the first penny of my disability claim, and every month they send another letter that could potentially put a disaster in my situation. but my question is this -- when is a workingman going to be paid a wage like my parents were paid

in the 1950's and 1960's, that you can raise a family on one income instead of having five cars and three homes? when are we going to get back to having what we need and not what we want? i think god for corona because that opened the curtain and showed the world how greedy the world is. host: on capitol hill, dr. anthony fauci and dr. rochelle a williams ski will be -- dr. rochelle walensky will be testifying on the pandemic response and you can watch at 10:00 eastern, or go to c-span.org. if you are on the move, download the free c-span radio app. also up on capitol hill, ghost guns and gun violence prevention. the judiciary subcommittee is holding a hearing on that at 10:00 eastern on c-span3, c-span.org, or you can listen to

free c-span radio app. and then today, former and current irs officials testify before a senate finance subcommittee about the so-called tax gap, the difference between taxes owed and taxes collected. you can listen on the c-span radio app, watch on c-span3, or on the website, c-span.org. back to the conversation about the job situation during the pandemic. let me share this headline from "the washington post" -- recovery stumbles leave american facing an unfamiliar inflation left -- inflation risk. prices are rising on everything from used cars to cigarettes. the front page story in "the wall street journal" about the price of corn going up, another indicator about the risk of inflation. andy and florida, you lost job.

caller: we actually lost two incomes as a family and had to relocate about five hours away to a cheaper place in the state. upend our kids, put them in remote learning because the school was shut down. now they are in remote learning, which we don't want to change. a lot of people, what they are not talking about, is there is still a danger that whether it is lots of unvaccinated people, people that cannot get the vaccine yet, or children. we have a three-year-old that we don't feel comfortable putting into a daycare that slobbers on stuff and no protection. there are a lot of cases still with the inflammation syndrome, other situations that people don't even really know about. i don't feel comfortable putting my child in that situation until they've had protection.

i've had to work extra jobs. i've been lucky. i lost one job and picked up other jobs, but my wife and our teenager are unable to work. it is not 100% safe and nobody can convince me that it is at this point because there are too many unknowns. host: they are unable to work because of the safety issue. what they be able to find a job? caller: daycare providing. so as far as finding a safe daycare that we can put our child in and know that they are safe. there's not a guarantee for that right now. host: andy, you are making as a household how much less than you did when you lived in a different location and you and your wife are working? caller: probably $1000 a month. in florida, the unemployment max payout is $225 a week.

my wife gets $175, so all the times we didn't get that federal assistance, the extra $300 which was during some of the hardest parts of the pandemic, $175 a week, which is $700 a month. nobody can live on that. single mothers, a lot of people, i don't know where people get that they are gaming the system. like some of the previous callers said, it shows where the real problem is and it is wages. host: andy in florida. there is news on vaccinating children. this is "the wall street journal" -- children 12 to 15 are cleared to get the pfizer vaccine. more coming up on vaccines in our next our bank. dan -- in our next hour. dan in stafford, virginia. caller: good morning.

i want to pass a little tsa and hear the beep of a fire alarm, so if you can remember to change your nine volt ottery's, they are expensive and hard to -- batteries, they are expensive and hard to get. i've been -- because of my work, specifically who pays my paycheck. i don't want to say i am biased, but i do work with younger folks. notice when you go to the store, maybe cosco or something, when you see moms and dads that look like they are in their mid-40's to 50's, and you start to see young twentysomethings with them like they are eight-year-olds and nine-year-olds, that's part of the problem with the labor market. it's maybe not that they are not paying enough and "they" meaning business owners. it is possibly unmotivated workers.

that is one aspect of economics people need to understand, there may be enough payers of labor but there may not be enough takers. there wage that they are willing to get up, take a shower and do all that, it may be something unreasonable that their human capital isn't worth that so to the lady that called and said people are not working whatever the job is, whether it be fast food or waiters and waitresses and busboys, that person doesn't have a human capital probably to do things like coding. if it is coding, it is probably not sustainable, maybe one gig they do, but that's probably not enough to say, pay your bills. i wanted to add, unmotivated workers and maybe the lice choices we are making -- life choices we are making. i have adult age children. they had no problem finding work when covid started and haven't

had trouble finding work while in covid. they are college-age. they aren't in the professional workforce yet, but as far as hourly wage labor, they've had no issues finding it. host: kenneth in bedford, ohio texts to say -- it is rather simple, if you cannot find enough workers, raise wages. calling unemployment at this event sent to -- disincentive to work is difficult to admit you are offering poverty wages. caller: good morning. i have to say i agree with andy from florida. one of the big things is safety issues. they put out information that, it is so much better and so much safer, yet three weeks ago, i lost two family members to covid. and i have two young children.

safety is a very big issue. and when more people are fascinate -- vaccinated and it becomes safer, i will feel a lot more comfortable. i have to protect my family. and my one relative that died, many times i tried to tell her to be careful, and she went on what she heard, no, no, it's fine. it's not bad out there. and as far as jobs, the unemployment doesn't really, never did pay really what people earned, so the extra money does help. as soon as things get a little better, more people are vaccinated, i'm sure that a lot of other people will go back to work. everybody didn't work in a restaurant business. everyone didn't work in food service. people worked in a variety of different jobs.

host: renee in pennsylvania, thank you. houston, texas, it is your turn. caller: hello? host: good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: i'm well. caller: i'm really surprised the democrats are letting the republicans hijacked this topic of unemployment. the fact that things are not really black and white an issue. people have commented and some people have really showed the fact that people are not being paid what they are worth because if you are given -- giving people what they really are worth as work, they would take that job. the fact that they are saying that they have difficulty finding employees and everything

, and everyone on unemployment whether they get it, they are completely against the government, there are statistics showing how much difference -- the workingmen. this is just the proof. if they can pay people a living wage, they call it a living wage, they will have no difficulty finding employees, and also treat them nice. you cannot just employ people because they are the lower end of the job, do not treat them nice. eve them incentive to want to come to work. -- give them incentive to want to come to work. host: on facebook -- a 20% increase in business, new construction plumbing could double our size if we could find help. pat in huntington, west virginia, tell us your story. caller: well, i did get a job this pastime. i already had a job, i've got

two now. i'm retired. i was elected to city council in my town because of the political situation. i finally felt like i had to get involved i don't want to distract from what the issue at hand. several people now have expressed the fact that we need higher wages, so i'm going to make a challenge here. i'm going to challenge these business people and all the businesses throughout the united states to put up a sign that says -- "help wanted, $15 an hour, benefits paid, health care coverage, and -- health care coverage" and see. if that doesn't work to help solve this unemployment problem, i will bet you that if they paid people enough to go to work and to have a decent place to live and a car that doesn't break

down, that all of a sudden this unemployment problem would clear up and people say -- one last thing -- people say, you do that and a hamburger will cost $25. no, the majority of people in the country already worked for $15 or more an hour. the majority of them do. they have jobs that are stable and things like that. this would be for the people coming into the workforce or who are unemployed, which you said yourself, it is just a few million. we get them back to work and the percentage of the raise in the total, the total wage of our country is not raised that high, and the prices were not raised that high. $15 an hour, benefits paid, i bet it will solve our problem. thank you for listening. host: we are going to return to this conversation later on.

up next, we are going to talk about vaccines. jeremy levin discusses the biden administration's discussion to support waving intellectual property protections for the coronavirus vaccine. later, mercatus research fellow -- and judy conti discuss the economic impact on job creation. first, the ransomware attack on that major u.s. pipeline over the weekend was a big topic at monday's white house press briefing. take a look. >> do you believe there was a desire to try to penetrate the kind of system that has huge implications for the u.s. economy and so forth? and how does that create concern for other kinds of systems, the electric grid or other energy companies?

they could financially pay potentially. do you see this as being about the infrastructure? >> we don't have further information about the intent of the perpetrators when conducting the ransomware hack against colonial. however, ransomware affects broad sectors and clearly, criminals have learned that those sectors, one of the key sectors we saw during the covid pandemic, was the hospital sector that was affected by ransomware. clearly, we see criminal actors have focused on more vulnerable victims, state and local governments, schools and that is why coming up and addressing ransomware with great vigor is a key priority of the administration because we are concerned about the growth in ransomware and the impact it has on medium and small businesses and state and local governments in the united states and around the world. >> is this ongoing or is the

threat removed? does it create a problem creating cyber support to respond or show the government's ability to mitigate this? >> details regarding the actual incident are being currently investigated by the fbi. colonial has noted in their public statement that they worked to control the spread of the ransomware interactively looking to bring back the network and are at the remediation phase. we are happy to see the important progress they made there. what was the second question? >> the company asked for cyber support sodas that create a problem for the government to respond? -- so does that create a problem for the government to respond? >> the support is available so any private sector entity that's expensing a cyber hack can go to

the government for remediation and technical assistance. they noted they are using a third-party service and they feel they are making adequate progress with their own resources and we know we are standing by. we are happy they are confident in their ability to remediate the incident and rapidly recover to meet the needs of their customers in this current environment. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with the chair of the biomedical organization and the ceo of ovid therapeutics to talk about patent rights. let's remind our viewers what the biotechnology institution is? guest: good morning. the biotechnology innovation organization is an organization of about 1000 companies. our focus is how to drive access to patients for new medicine and

secondarily, how do we drive innovation that really is underpinning all of biotechnology. biotechnology is a whole new science of 30 years of building technologies that help people find medicines. we spend our time at the organization focused on these two things, discussing it with congress, helping congress, the senate and the president to understand the value of this. one of the most important points about it is that this industry delivers about 70% of all the new medicines in the world. it's a really important part of american infrastructure. host: your reaction to the biden administration announcing that they support waving the intellectual protections for covid-19 vaccines.

" this is a global health crisis and the extraordinary circumstances of the covid-19 pandemic calls for triggering measures.the it ministration believes in intellectual properties but in serving to end the panic, supports the waiver of those protections for covid-19 vaccines. " what is the impact of this on the biotech industry? guest: the more important question is what is the impact on individuals in the pandemic stepwaiving patents doesn't stop a pandemic. what you have to do is get shots into arms as fast as is possible. when you wave the patents, that's only a tiny step along a very long journey. we could estimate roughly it would take at least 18 months before any kind of waiver, if it was enacted and it's not clear

that it will become a could have any impact around the rest of the world. we have a hope of stopping this pandemic. what we need to do is to ramp up immediately production in those facilities that are high-quality , they know what there'd doing, they don't have to reinvent, train people and otherwise and then ensure that we, in the united states, can export these vaccines at a price that is affordable for those abroad. that's what will make a difference. waiving the patents won't do it. you have to build the plants, you have to train the people, you have to actually set in place the very complicated supply chain, how you get the different components of the vaccine to the factory. last of all, don't forget, the

vaccine we are using most prominently in the united states are those by moderna and pfizer. they are very effective, doing the job, and the bottom line is they also require was called cold chain. cold chain means you have to keep these vaccines at lower temperatures which means you have to have the right kind of refrigerators. i cannot imagine that in the middle east, in africa, in asia that anybody has set up the quality and capability to distribute these types of vaccines even if they could manufacture them in time and they cannot. the bottom line here is the patent waiver itself represents a disappointing step, one which will confuse people and will give them hope, it's effectively a full should. the better way to go is to ramp up manufacturing here and get

the shots into arms immediately. host: how much money did these companies spend on research for these vaccines? how much money could they potentially lose by the lifting of these intellectual patents? guest: first of all, these new vaccines didn't come in one instant. it wasn't any one individual company that built the underlying understanding. billions of dollars have been invested in the industry over 20-30 years which has led to the capability last year when suddenly the pandemic washed over us. all of that very, very intensive investment over many years was actually brought to fruition. the particular companies, modernity -- moderna and biontech in germany and pfizer

here were able to build on all of that information and then they invested themselves billions of dollars, not just in the research, but also in manufacturing. the u.s. government help them by contracting to buy the products. but the bottom line is the research that was done, that was poured into this is cumulative many billions of dollars in the industry to begin with and subsequently, the investments by private investors in both pfizer and moderna and biontech, these led to the mrna vaccines. j&j itself launched a vaccine approach. that vaccine approach was built on years of investment. it's a different kind of vaccine but j&j itself had been investing for years and

vaccines. it how it could come to the table with a similar vaccine. with regard to the loss of what it might mean for the top line of these companies, it's not clear. in october of last year already, modernity -- moderna said they would be willing to waive patents and willing to license and willing to provide vaccines to others. it's not at all clear what they will lose in the long term. in the short term, the industry suffers because what happens is that people lose confidence that their investments in other companies, cancer companies, diabetes companies and others where they are making novel breakthroughs of the same kind that we see here that have occurred in the pandemic, what you see is that investors take a double look and say wait a second, why would i invest in a company if suddenly the

government is going to step in and take away those patents which allow me to at least have the certainty that we are investing in something that could give us a good return long term. it's not clear how much because it's incalculable. the short term uncertainty could cause companies to slow down research. it could cause others to simply say i don't want to invest in this area. that would be very disappointing. what's really important is that we understand what we are trying to accomplish here, which is shots in the arms. host: a tweet from a viewer, india has a robust pharmaceutical industry. if they had waivers, they could probably start manufacturing rapidly. guest: many countries don't have this. you have countries like china, japan, india, russia, the

european union, of course they have the ability to take this on. of course they have the ability to start to manufacture, there is no doubt about that. the real question is, will they be able to do it in time? will they be able to get shots in arms when in actual fact, we already are running a vast capacity in this country and we could get it to them. pandemics don't wait for anybody. in addition to which, let's ask a different question -- what about the other countries? china for a long time has tried to get its hands on this technology. why are we trying to provide to a nation that has been trying to get this technology from us on a plate? it's a technology which effectively is core to the united states strategic assets, the biotechnology industry or for that matter russia.

they produced sputnik v which is there vaccine, proceeded to send out all sorts of messages denigrating other vaccines. now we are going to give them this one? no, the better ways to manufacture billions of doses in this country and get it out to the other countries immediately rather than take american investor money, american know-how and send it abroad. host: i want to encourage our viewers to start dialing in this morning. we will take your questions and comments about the vaccine and the science behind it. dr. jeremy 11, the front page of the newspapers, age limit lower for the pfizer vaccine. the fda has approved use 12-15. what is the scientific take away? guest: this is very good news. viruses spread three population and they find safe havens where they can swirl around and mutate

. when they are in any part of the population, they start to change naturally. as we have seen for example in hotspots like the terrible disasters you see in india, when new variants arrive from mutation, you want to ensure that that type of opportunity for this virus to change his behavior, change its profile, changes infectivity doesn't arrive. now with the kids, this is just great news. we cannot only ensure that children can go to parties and meet others and go to school safely, but also, and you can prevent the illness that does occur which is less than adults by four but you can ensure that this virus is not given a safe haven. you can begin to address what is

a segment of the population where the virus is swirling around but not doing a huge amount of damage but every death, every illness is a tragedy, let's not forget that. at the same time, you can start to remove the virus from our population. that is a very big deal. host: dr. levin with hotspots like india, the vaccine hesitancy in this country, what percentage do you put the risk at of this virus mutating and the vaccines currently available are no longer effective? guest: we don't actually know. i think it would be unwise to speculate. what we do know is that we have seen in brazil, and south africa, in india, in great britain every time you give a chance to this virus, it takes

it. what it does begins to mutate. there are several kinds of mutations. one is it makes it more infectious. that's what we are seeing. that's what we see in india that's spreading superfast. the british version that developed in great britain out of the original virus spread very quickly through the united states. these are variants which seize the opportunity to infect you and become more infectious. but there is another kind of variant which we don't want to see and that's one that leads to more harm. it is not just more infective, it's more verlander just verlander - virulent. we don't want to see a virus that has more of an effect on young kids. the more that we can crush back the hotspots and faster and that's why 18 months is not

remotely the right thing to be doing, we need to crush it now because we don't want to see any variants really turn a corner into a bad place. host: is there any evidence right now that these variants -- that people who have these variants and were vaccinated became ill? guest: actually, we do know that once you were vaccinated, you can actually, a small percentage in this country but nevertheless, what's very important is that even with the variants, we appear to be having a significant amount of efficacy. this is important. when you have that comely the death rates go down and even if you do get infected, you have a far lower incident of poor outcome of any kind. the good news is, the very good news is these vaccines do appear

to be fighting against the variants. the better news which is important for us all to understand is that both pfizer and moderna, because of the new kind of vaccine types,the mrna, can pivot on a dime and think about how to tackle the new variants if they should come along and how they might improve the effect of their vaccine on them. i've got a lot of confidence in the way they are able to at least try to manage new variants. host: in a tweet, ask the guest what the profit margins are? what is the forecast of their profit margins for those two companies? guest: i don't know and i would talk to the companies that publish these. i don't follow that specifically

but i do know something, that without the investment those companies made, this country would still be shut down. what would we be experiencing? let's not focus on if they made money out of it. i hope they do. let's ask a different question. if they were not here, what would we be doing? we would have millions out of work. people who are old would be dying. we know that. we don't need to run that experiment. what is the price of that? but having said that, listen very carefully to the statements of both the ceos of my dharna and the ceos of pfizer. they are not out to make a profit which is not unreasonable. some of these companies have said they are willing to send their product abroad at cost.

some of them are simply making significant amounts out of the contracts, not a profit. they are making money, yes they are and they deserve to. it costs them money to build the plants, to put in place the infrastructure so from my perspective, i'm not here arguing for profits or not profits. i am asking the listeners thinking about this, what would have happened if we didn't have these vaccines? host: let's go to jay in aldie, virginia. caller: good morning. you mentioned that the key for controlling the pandemic is to create more vaccine and ship it to countries in the middle east and africa. you also mentioned that they

don't have the equipment like the refrigerators to keep them at certain temperatures. how can we help them by ramping up at they don't have that equipment? should we push for the release of johnson & johnson which doesn't need a cooler temperature to distribute the vaccine? i read somewhere that the doctor who discovered the process of the messenger rna, that she is getting compensated for her efforts. guest: great comments and right on the target. a better investment of time would be asking, how can we set up distribution in all of these nations so that we are sure that , for example, in brazil, in the very impoverished parts of south africa, all across the middle

east, etc. that they can get the right kind of vaccine and of high quality, not some fake vaccine. nearly 40% of medicines in africa and asia happen to be knockoffs or fakes. let's be very clear, you need a high quality medicine, the kind that we put into our arms in this country going to those nations. an investment of time and effort to construct the right kind of distribution, the safe kind of distribution and the appropriate could be done. there are machines that could be manufactured quickly. you can make a refrigerator superfast versus building a plant for a high quality vaccine. number two is we should all take our hats off to what j&j did, good, solid results and interesting results. and you are right, we should turn to our government and ask

if we can encourage these companies to export as they said they will do? the ceo of j and j has represented, as they have all done since 1947, when they created their credo that they will treat everybody. what matters is the patient. as far as i'm concerned, those are very important, practical steps and you put your finger exactly on it. how do we get them out there? manufacturing high-quality and doing it in a way that we ensure that everybody gets them. as to the individual, the lady who actually discovered this vaccine, she is really a wonderful tail and i encourage everyone to read about her. i don't know if she gets composition but i -- compensation but i hope she does. she did something special and was in the wilderness.

if you read her story, you will find out that for a long time, what she was considered to be doing was considered never feasible. in other words, how do you create an artificial mrna, one that does not cause the body to react against mrna in a way that is harmful to the body? she figured it out and it was great. host: eva in columbia, mississippi, good morning. caller:caller: i want to know, i admire the drug companies if they are willing to forgive their patents to give this to mankind. i wonder how much the politicians think they will gain. everything they do, they see a dollar in their pocket. they are not going to do anything to help the people without gaining and they have probably prospered from the pandemic. i wonder how many are doing it for the good of america and the world, thank you. guest: i didn't hear your name.

host: eva. guest: good morning to you. it's one of the most remarkable things about the biotech industry. people go into work every day and they fail. they try and find medicines and they fail. what keeps them going every day, literally, and i know this because i've been there for 30 years, is that they want to find a medicine. it is so amazing to see these people. they walk into work every day and run an experiment that doesn't work. what motivates them to go the next day? it's your point. every single one of them wants to find a better medicine. i think one of the most remarkable things about this industry. it's not like building an automobile. it's not like blowing a glass vase. it's not like making a sandwich. you do not know was going to

come out of you every day in biotech. you think that you have the right experiment, you think about how you run that experiment, you ask yourself, let me test this out, will it work. i cannot tell you how admiring i am of these people as they walk in there because the vast majority of their experiments fail. you have to ask yourself the question, what makes you get up in the morning to go to work? the answer is exactly your point. the motivation is to find a medicine that cures people. host: this is julian in north carolina with a text. if you recovered from covid-19 and have the antibodies, would you only need the booster shot? guest: not known yet. the recommendation is that you take both. we have so for 114 million americans vaccinated so that's a

huge number of people. we believe possibly that there is another 132 million who had the infection. these are vast numbers. the information that you are seeking right now is i don't have that. i'm not sure anybody does but we will get it. at this stage what is also clear is that almost certainly, all those of us who have been vaccinated and we have had the two vaccines, all of those of us who do have that will have another booster at some stage. the exact timing of the booster is not clear. this is a little bit like the flu vaccine. every year, you have a new flu vaccine. i'm not troubled by that. i think we should all expected we should know it's coming. but your question, do you need, should you only have one

vaccine, the booster if you had covid before, not yet clear but it will become clear. host: if you have the antibodies, do you become more sick when you get the vaccine? guest: i don't that's necessarily the case. it's the timing of when you have the vaccine. as you know, there is a period of time that they want to elapse before you have the vaccine. i think people have taken into account that you may be sicker so the best way to prevent that is to have a per ofi timeo when you've taken the firstd or have been ill and have the vaccine. a lot of thought has gone into that. host: will the vaccine alter your dna? guest: that is a complete myth. it cannot possibly do that.

i don't know where this came from, to be perfectly honest, but the reality is, it is a complete impossibility. it's not even remotely possible. the reason why it's not possible is scientific. it's very straightforward. what this particular vaccine, what the mrna vaccines do is they actually contain a fragment of what is in the virus. it asks your body by hijacking your bodies machinery to make that piece of the virus. only that piece. what your body is high check for -- hijacked four is a small fragment which is manufactured, it's the red spike we have all seen. your body then reacts against it.

but is no possible way that these vaccines can change your dna. that just doesn't have the machinery to do it. host: can it impact your fertility? guest: again, a strange and very odd myth. we don't know where it came from but anybody saying that is trying to make a point. it's a myth. it is false. it's not a question of my asserting that. it shows categorically that there is a wonderful set of papers, not papers, a collection published by nature which basically describes all of the papers over the last year. it's a very rich set of data. there is not a shred of evidence and that data that even comes close to indicating that maybe it has an effect on fertility.

it's not even remotely real. host: gerald in kenner, louisiana, your next. caller: good morning. i had covid and i am fully vaccinated. what is the problem with herd immunity? [indiscernible] how are we going to get over this if everybody wants to do with they want to do? i want to go to the gym. i can't even go back to the gym because they don't enforce masks or require that you have been vaccinated. it's all in vain. host: what do we need -- what is the number we need to get to for herd immunity to get back to

normal and being able to go to the gym without a mask? guest: good morning, gerald. first of all, i'm super glad to be talking to you and to lie to -- and delighted that you are one of the folks who knows what covid can do and congratulations you had your vaccine. you are in great shape. you're not helping yourself and everybody else as well. the pleasure to talk to you. with regard to herd immunity, this is very important consideration. for those of us who have studied pandemics and epidemics, we know that, for example, with measles, you need somewhere north of 95% of the population vaccinated and/or immune. fortunately, everybody has behaved well were largely well

so we've got that occasional little flareup that happens but by and large, we have that under control. in the same case, in polio, we don't have polio. we have herd immunity and that was about 80%. where are we today on the possibility of herd immunity? folks like gerald are helping. in other words, we have had roughly, we know 114 million people have been vaccinated. we know at least 132 million have had the first doses. we know that probably close to estimates from t ericopol the very respected researcher, 110 million other people have had

covid. if we take that into tell a t, we are kind of roughly at 50% or a little bit more, closer to 60% of people. we don't know exactly if you need 95% or you need 80%. dr. fauci estimates you need between 70 percent and 85% of people having been infected for of having had vaccination. the good news is, we are getting there. we are getting there superfast. we can take an example of israel where nearly 60% of everybody has been vaccinated and it's pretty open as a society. they are not seeing any debts

there. many people are not wearing masks on the outside. they still are wearing masks when they are face-to-face because they are being sensible but they are going to the gym and they are behaving in a way that is very sensible. if we take the lesson from israel where last week they reported that there were no deaths for the first time that getting this up there to 70% of people who are either vaccinated or have had covid, we're getting close to what dr. fauci said. hang fire, we are very close. host: john from new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. interesting conversation. i appreciate it. dr. you have a smooth presentation and you mentioned something that i was glad to hear. you mentioned polio and i

thought of the great dr. jonas salk who upon completion of that work simply put his work out for the world to benefit from. the profit motive is pervasive all over this planet. we must remember that the american people also kicked in $1 billion towards the development of the vaccines. it's not like we are paupers asking for something. we must be conscious of what is stimulating this and what should be put out there for the benefit of humanity. i am old enough to remember when physicians and scientists upon completion of their work simply put it out. it was exhibited in the play for -- in the papers and on the news

stop their work was put out there to be gone over by their fellow scientists in various capacities. it was put out there but when the profit motive took over and it goes to these universities also, when the profit motive took over, everybody was kicked to the side profit motive is paramount. i am a defender of israel -- host: we are running out of time but dr. levin, according to the government accountability office, johnson & johnson received a one billion manufacturing award and maternal was 1.2 billion astrazeneca, 1.2 billion, novavax 1.6 and pfizer nearly 2 billion. guest: absolutely. let's take a look at what it takes to scale up, what it takes

to invest in the kinds of infrastructure that you need. much of this money was actually used to purchase, not just to invest in the manufacturing and distribution. one has to be a little careful about the terminology of what one is using. with regard to development, they did not receive money to develop it. what the government did which was fantastic was to speed up and ensure that the fda was able to review the materials very quickly. i think john's comment is important. you are 100% right. if we had a world in which you and i and the government paid for an incentive for people to go and research and find new medicines and her motivation had nothing to do with profit,

indeed, this would be fantastic, an ideal world. unfortunately or fortunately, we have created in america is an engine that stimulates innovation. it's a very fortunate thing. part of that engine that stimulates this is the requirement that we invest in companies to get them to do things. i understand that the profit motive but quite frankly, that's what drives mcdonald's. that's what drives every single industry.unless you are going to completely change the totality of how we, as a society work, then we must have things that incentivize people to do things. part of that is like you and me. we believe in doing good and we want people to benefit and we will donate our time or donate our efforts but where it comes

to investing in new technology, who is going to take the risk when you don't know what will come out the other side? the only way to do that is to have investors who need a return because they themselves have to raise money in order for them to prove to their investors that they are worthwhile investing in. it's not as if the government is investing in it. these are individuals, these are funds, key folks taking money out of their pocket to make something happen that nobody believes could happen. let me give you an example. today, we have an incredible development in cancer called immuno oncology. it's the way that we are in us the white cells of the body to attack and kill cancer. that is a revolution.

perhaps it's half of all the investment but about half of all investment of the pharmaceutical industry goes into this. in 2009, nobody believed in it. companies thought it was a wacky idea. scientists thought there was no evidence that it would work. one company called mederex continue to think about how they would tackle this incredible idea, stop cancer hiding from your white cells. let the white cells to their business, activate and get them to attack the cancer. that's why it's called immuno oncology. immune being the white cells and oncology being the cancer. this company was bought by bristol-myers for $2.3 billion. the reason why bristol-myers

spent that amount of money was to say, how can we answer the question to tackle this incredibly important question when nobody else wants to believe in it. we will spend $2.3 billion and by this company and see if we cannot conquer cancer. no government stepped in, no public good stepped in but the intent was to conquer cancer. they bought it in 2009. nobody believed in it. because of that acquisition, today, we have the very real possibility that we have cures for cancer. i agree with you, sometimes that's who i am. sometimes you look at this thing and you wish we had an ideal

world where we all invested from the government and took out of her pocket and took these kind of chances. you and i both know that's not going to happen. nobody is going to take a chance except the rare person who is willing to. for them, they deserve a return. they deserved they return and they deserve to encourage it. industry lives by that every day failing, every day investing in crazy ideas that may not work but if they do, they need a return, otherwise, how will you stimulate this in the future? are we willing to give up new discoveries that conquer diabetes or alzheimer's? not at all. by the way, if we don't get a return, who is going to invest for the next pandemic? it will come. who will find the next discovery? host: if you want to learn more

about the industry, go to bio .org and follow the organization on twitter. dr. jeremy lebed is the chair -- 11 is the chair. guest: thank you very much. host: next, a roundtable discussion about the biden administration's economic policies and impact on job creation. first, republican congressman adam kinzinger was the best test was the guest speaker the national press probe luncheon -- press club luncheon. >> with liz cheney and people like me and others are out there saying this is a real concern, guys. we act like january 6 really was and blm.

listen to those of us who predicted what would happen on the sixth. we can see the complete destruction of the republican party and i think it's important to get out there. she said the same exact thing which kevin mccarthy said which is donald trump is responsible. i don't know if steve scalise talked about this. what happens is kevin mccarthy goes only on certain press elements that will never ask him about this. when you talk about trying to win a broad coalition with the majority and all you are doing is going on the steve bannon

show -- why are you out there a nontraditional republican areas? those are the people you were supposed to be reaching. it's because they are not qualified. they want to stir up the basin when it came to kevin, the only thing liz did was be consistent. she refused to change. i considered kevin mccarthy a great friend but two weeks after january 6, he goes down to mar-a-lago and it was almost like generally sick never happened. a wink and a nod at the blm and maybe it was antifa, it really wasn't her fault, let's move on. i think it's important to know the truth which this was entirely predictable and it was disregarded. i don't know -- i'm not saying he could've any -- could have done anything to stop it, i don't know. ♪

>> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning is the research fellow from the george mason university center and judy co withn thet national employment law project to talk about workforce participation. your reaction to the latest job reports in april? >> guest: guest: the latest job

report is a one month in time snapshot of seasonally adjusted numbers. we know that there were one million jobs created last month, one million new jobs that people talk. seasonally adjusted, the numbers come down because they adjust for what is a normal spring. we are in a far from normal spring right now. it is hard to say with this one month means. i will note that wall street shrugged it off as stocks rose friday. knowing that vaccines are getting an arms and that stimulus money is getting through the economy and unemployment benefits, enhanced benefits are still continuing to reach workers who desperately need them to prop up families in local communities and we see an improving economy. this jobs report is one month and we will see what happens next month. host: michael farren? guest: it was a major miss,

perhaps the biggest missing expectations but i agree that i think this may be a momentary lip in the data because of the seasonal adjustment these numbers go through every single month. it's a little disturbing to see the variant in trend buts if you look at the past previous few months, those numbers have been revised substantially as more data has trickled in afterward. we may see these numbers revised as well. i wouldn't make too much out of what looks to be a large speedbump up probably nothing much more than that. host: tell our viewers where the jobs are? who is looking to hire in this country? guest: industries are reopening and demand is increasing. we have had to shut down

restaurants and hospitality and leisure in particular and slowly but surely, those will start to come back. there are jobs available in manufacturing, in warehouses, in health care, really across the board. we are starting to see the continual rise of job openings in every part of our economy. the thing that we have to understand is that unemployment is always what we call a lagging indicator. it's a term economists use to show that it is one of the last things that recovered after a crises like recessions or in this case the pandemic and the recession. we are seeing jobs come back across the country. we are seeing people more and more willing to go out and engage in commerce and engage in restaurants and leisure and getting slowly but surely back to their normal life, but not

entirely. as we continue to recover as a country both in terms of our public health but also our economy, we will continue to see an uptick in unemployment and see industries higher but we have to know that the unemployment rate is going to be one of the last things that recovers in this country from this crisis. host: if you look at the bureau of labor statistics number for april and where there are job gains as judy was talking about like leisure and hospitality, you are seeing an uptick there and you see it in other industries. when you look at what's happening across the sectors, what do you see? guest: i see much of the same things. i think employment is a lagging indicator. business is not going to hire someone full-time or part-time until they are reasonably confident they will have the

customers coming in the door that necessitates that worker being there. as a result, hiring is kind of a lagging indicator of businesses confidence in what the future is. it is a statement about confidence about the future, about an expectation about the future. on top of that, one of the things i saw in the data that really hardens me -- hardens me 0 hearten me is there was a decrease in couriers and messenger workers. under 15,000 decrease in temporary workers. a lot of that decreases because april is a big month for temporary workers. what we are seeing is it seems people might be shifting out of short-term temporary jobs they took to make ends meet during the pandemic and shifting more

into full-time jobs. if an employer has taken on an employee through a temp agency and says i will go ahead and how your you -- and hire you full-time because i'm confident about the economy reopening, that is a statement about confidence about the future. i think there is a hidden ray of sunshine in an otherwise gloomy jobs report. host: let's talk to our viewers about their experience. if you are unemployed, dial the first number, employed, the second number and employer's, a for you this morning about what you are seeing if you need workers.

on this debate over whether or not extended or enhanced unemployment benefits are causing people to not return to the workforce, where'd do you come down on that? guest: i think that is an absolutely false narrative. it's simplistic driven by political desires and absolutely false. these benefits have been an absolute lifeline for families during this pandemic and recession. in particular for workers of color and communities of color and women workers. we know that workers of color, particularly black and latin and workers have been hardest hit by unemployment and hardest hit by not being able to get jobs back and also the health care outcomes for their communities are the worst. we know women have left the workforce in droves because there is no in person school, there is no childcare, they have to work on educating their

children at home while they are doing virtual school. people are not sitting home and drawing the unemployment benefits. the reason the government had to pass enhanced benefits is because unemployment benefits are generally paltry in the first instance. over decades upon decades, states of slashed and burned and dismayed of the programs to the point where unemployment only replaces 44% of wages across the country and in many of the southeastern states in particular, where's there is the highest concentration of black workers, that's where the unemployment rates, replacement rates are even lower with many of them having maximum weekly benefits only of about $250. in addition, states haveslashed weeks of benefits of the federal government had to step in so when you are shutting down our economy and telling people you cannot work, there was enough

income to support them and their families and to continue having money flow through their communities. that's why we have the pandemic unemployment compensation program, the extra $300 per week , 600 originally that workers are getting. also, the pandemic unemployment assistance program is one that recognizes that regular ui benefits don't merely cover enough people who are out of work. if you are self-employed or an independent contractor, you have not worked long enough. you work part-time. you only lose your job partially. in most states, unemployment compensation does not cover you at all so we had to create a pandemic unemployment assistant program. these programs are not encouraging people to stay home and not take work. they are recognizing that regular unemployment insurance is far from sufficient to

support families and communities in a crisis like we have just had and in a recovery we are still very much in the middle of. they have been an important lifeline. i shudder to think whatever economy would be like, how many homeless families we would have and how much destitution and suffering there would be had congress not stepped up and had the biden administration and this congress not fought to reauthorize and keep these programs up and running as long as they need to be. host: michael, your take. guest: i think judy is 95% right. i will only quibble on one mostly economic point. the thing to bear in mind is that these are not normal times. last year has been the complete opposite of normal and everyone would agree. in these abnormal times, a federal bonus to what state

unemployment programs have previously been made a lot of sense. essentially, the government used the tools it had to do what it could to combat the crisis. arguably, those tools are not optimum so we should go back to the drawing board and say we should design something now that would provide better recession proof type tools to help families through these difficult times. i would quibble that the $600 were the $300 were -- i would not quibble that the money was for the families that needed it. it's evidence of the recession and recovery that working-class or blue-collar workers or people had the leisure and entertainment industry were the hardest hit by the pandemic. what you want to see is support for those particular people and

that's what these programs did. the quibble that i have is that the unemployment insurance benefits do not cause people to stay out of the workforce. the better answer for that is that right now, it's probably not a large impact or whether someone decides whether or not to be employed. it's certain if you give someone the entirety of someone's income and don't require them to seek work, which is another change that was made to these programs to help people get through things because we didn't want people to go back to work. to be eligible for these programs you normally have to be actively seeking work. that way you are not lingering on the other reason why in the beginning, these programs were designed to only replace about 50% up to a given level of the workers income, to encourage

them to quickly rejoin the workforce. we didn't want that during the pandemic. to say that unemployment insurance benefits especially the expanded ones don't affect workers desire to go back to work is not correct. as economists would say is it's an empirical russian, you can only answer this through observation and i would argue that the current pandemic, childcare and workers desire to actually get started on the right foot in the right job going forward are probably the larger factors keeping people out of the workforce right now. that might change in the next month or so so we should start to think about potential reforms to help get the economy restarted. host: take a look at the jobless rate. this is from april broken down by race and gender. caller: good morning.

host: go ahead with your question or comment. caller: what about people who have been working through the pandemic? considering to give them incentives or some energy for all their hard work because they have been working through the process. host: are you talking about giving some sort of bonus to essential workers? caller: yeah look a one-time bonus to appreciate and recognize all their hard work. and number two. wasn't the by the administration for gassing the next two or

three months. for example what happened in india. all they did was very good work, don't let the republicans destroy it. you go to the market, you can buy anything, a few items here and there. host: let's answer these questions. a bonus for central workers and a forecast of inflation. guest: in terms of bonus for essential workers. in the heroes act which the house former senators past last year there was a provision for hero pay, premium pay for people on the front lines, extra money every single hour they worked in recognition of the hazards they were facing. the risks they were taking and the increased level of work they

were doing. and there are a number of cities that have implemented or try to implement the same sort of premium pay and that's long been supportive of that. what it showed us though was is not just that these workers deserve premium pay in a crisis, but all these workers who we call essential who were putting up signs saying what heroes they are, it's wonderful to give them the praise but we need to give them the pay all the time. it underscores the need for us to raise wages. to gradually raise the federal minimum wage to at least $15 an hour everywhere in the country, to reform over time and make sure people aren't working overtime hours and not being compensated for them. to do everything we can to put upward pressure on wages so people have good jobs as we will support their families and local economies.

i am with tyler that people who were laboring during the worst of the pandemic absolutely needed more pay. they also needed better health and safety protections. there should've been a temporary standard mandating is his health and safety requirements. -- mandating health and safety requirements. which shows these reforms, safer working conditions and a uniform program of paid family and medical and sick leave are absolutely essential for all workers across the country. host: john in washington state, unemployed. go ahead. caller: can host: you hear me? yes -- host: caller: can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: i heard about the different unemployment, federal and state, the amount being

anywhere from 700 up to a couple of thousand dollars. i want to remind everybody there's a few different age groups of disabled people that live on less than that every day of their life, they have kids and families, dave grandparents, some of them have other spouses trying to work also. my next thing was there already central workers that have been working this whole time and then there's other workers that could have gone back months ago -- or a month or two ago after getting fully vaccinated and they are still sitting at home and some people think it may just be like a low income earner, i know quite a few people who make a couple hundred dollars an hour through union different things

and they've been called to come back a couple months ago and they just are choosing not to. host: the president said you can't do that. guest: sure. that was even the requirement beforehand that if you get offered a job you are not allowed to continue collecting unemployment insurance. the actual administration of the requirement is pretty difficult and so arguably it's pretty much somewhat of a toothless regulation, required an employer to follow up with the program administrators and say essentially i offer this person a job just to let them know and clays -- in case they're clucking on employment insurance. that's not likely to happen so i don't think that's a strong

requirement. host: an opportunity for you to respond to the forecast of inflation. guest: so i think -- i guess the question is how are we going to define inflation. will we define it as any price rise at all? in that case, yes we will see some unsuspected large price increases over the next few months, we've already seen such price increases in the used car market over the last 12 months, but that just indicates in some cases a differential demand and differential supply that supply chains have been reduced or is people have avoided using buses and mass transit and shipping towards driving themselves to work or to the store. but the larger question is do i think long run inflation

regarding people's expectations of what future prices will be will kind of run amok and the answer is no. i think most people inc. the fact mentally that prices will rise to some degree in the near-term but they will not get out of hand. when you get runaway expectations of rising prices is when you get people using their money as fast as they can to avoid price rises on the future and stocking up on the things they need and that drives prices up even faster in a nonlinear fashion in the short run. i don't think we will see that. host: linda in florida, you are unemployed. caller: what they need to pass some kind of law where the either pay you -- they give you 20 hours a week or 40 hours a week, --

they need to either give you 20 hours a week or 40 hours a week. one of the other. because that's not worth hiring you, giving you a lot of hours and then at the end giving you no hours. you can work like that or pay rent like that. guest: i think what she's talking about is variable schedules and uncertain income being based upon an employer's scheduling of you and needing to have more consistent and greater expectation of what your work is going to be so that if you have a $20 a week job -- 20 hour a week job you can have another one to make it up. that gets to an idea i think is worth digging more into which is expanding the earned income tax credit and making it more of a monthly payment rather than a lump sum payment.

or even something along the lines of a wage subsidy which would be much better way to essentially make sure the people who are having trouble making ends meet actually have that ability to make them meet. the regulation that says employers have to either work someone 40 or 20 hours arguably are too big a pair of handcuffs for the labor market or businesses and if we want to help low income workers, the better way to do it is through forms that support both businesses and workers rather than with fiscal programs rather than regulatory handcuffs that we can't even predict what those long-term effects are going to be through unintended consequences. host: renee in michigan. caller: good morning. i'm calling because i'm unemployed, but i was unemployed

because i didn't have an official social security card. so i filed for unemployment in january, i also have to wait for social security to send me my card so i can go back to work. i filed in january. january 12 and here we are may 10, i haven't received an unemployment benefit yet. and then i listen on the news, these people saying we are just sitting back waiting for these payments, we don't want to work, people don't want to work for $7.25 an hour. so when those business owners and politicians say people don't want to work, say people don't want to work because of the

amount i'm paying them per hour. host: let's take that point. guest: there is so much to unpack in what was said. i can hear in your voice how hard this is for you and in so many others and i'm sorry about that. you are right, we have a crisis of low-wage bad jobs in this country which predated the pandemic and recession. this pandemic has been a wake-up call for all of us on so many levels and one of them may well be people no longer willing to accept horrible wages, substandard benefits and unsafe working conditions. workers have been organizing across the country from time immemorial but especially over the past few years with the fight for 15, their workers organizing for unemployment insurance, for paid sick leave, paid family leave and we listen to them and their demands about

what's necessary for them to have self-sustaining lives. so i absolutely agree with renee that people need good jobs to go back to. , but she also raises such an important issue about fighting for bennett -- applying for benefits five months ago and not seeing anything. this pandemic has proven what folks have been screaming about for decades. that the unemployment insurance program is really badly broken and i alluded earlier to the way the state has low benefits, short duration, eligibility requirements that make it impossible for the majority of workers to actually qualify for unemployment. as michael said we need to be looking at all that and thinking about the system. for the past 40 or 50 years, every year the federal government either basically levels funds or decreases them

for ui administration. for the people and the tools that make sure benefits get out the door. most states are running their unemployment insurance programs on antiquated technology, on mainframes and programs built in the 80's. and our -- and are programming in a language the equivalent of latin for most of us. it's a dead computer language. they do not have the money to upgrade the technology. when they do upgrades, there are too many states that have also because of no oversight from the department of labor built their systems to scale. to keep workers out rather than to bring them in. we saw the beginning of the recession when congress created all the pandemic programs that states had an awful time administering them. they could not reprogram quickly enough. the systems were not new enough

to do it. for some it took a month or two and some took four months. we have this wake-up call about the way we need to reinvest in our ui infrastructure. infrastructure is not just roads and bridges, it is the programs that run this country. it is the care and the people that provide communities the services they need and the ui infrastructure is badly broken and we need to invest significant funds. senator wyden has put out a bill calling for five hundred million dollars in investments in the ui infrastructure and extensive oversight and guardrails from the department of labor to make sure it's done right. the department of labor was given $2 billion to help improve the administration on employment insurance and we hope they will invest a significant amount of that money in making sure states

have better technology and ample staff to do with these programs are supposed to do. host: lewis, tell us your story. caller: i am disabled, but i do know about this. if i'm making $25 an hour and i'm unemployed, my wages are receive for this will match the area i just left from, but if the state has a position open for a person who's making $7.24 an hour, there is no law that's required that i must take that job or fill out an application for it. i don't understand why people are getting bent out of shape because finally american people

are receiving benefits that is going to help them and their families and their crying about the 1% who receive billions each year from the united states, from the people but they are not talking about that. host: michael, i will throw it to you, what about offering after you answer that question, what about offering bonuses as senator ben sasse would like to do. a signing bonus for those who took a job. guest: i empathize with the caller. i think it makes sense that people feel that finally unemployment benefits are coming around to where they ought to have been all along. it is worthwhile remembering that these programs were designed in a different era when public values and policymaker intent were different. there's a very understand --

understandable concern that if you completely replace someone's income, that they are -- and you don't give them any sort of duration or limits on that, that they might adjust their family-style living style to accommodate that level of income. we seen a lot of that, people making major changes and their family habits over the past year. one of the interesting ideas along the lines perhaps that caller might be interested in is adjusting the current structure of unemployment benefits to be front waited. so the first three months or so of unemployment received larger shares of the total unemployment insurance account and then that trails off in later months so that it supports you during the time you need to find a job but

then later on it provides increasingly stronger incentives to go and look for work. that's a good segue into an idea i've already implemented in the mid little of last year with a built-in congress right now to kind of adapt the unemployment insurance program such that if a worker takes a job that they will get a bonus for return to work to encourage people to not linger to the extent some people might be lingering on unemployment insurance to motivate them to get out to jump start the economy faster. it would essentially take about $1200 worth of the federal bonus to an employment insurance as a lump sum you should get a job and keep it for about a month. idaho had a similar program last

summer. 10,000 people applied for it the very first day and idaho was one of the states with the lowest unemployment rates currently. it remains to be said that this is a very regional kind of issue or even a local issue seems to be the unemployment rates generally higher in cities. and unemployment rate isn't even the best metric to gauge the help of the labor market right now because it involves people actively looking for work. there still a lot of people who are not actively looking for work right now. and we will start to see more and more of that as time goes by and that's one of the reasons why as you see unemployment rates rise in the next coming months, that's a good thing. it represents workers coming off the bench and saying put me in

coach. i'm ready to get out there on the field. right now we have more workers on the bench than that are standing up on the sidelines ready to play. things to help more people come off the bench get the people on the sidelines onto the field. host: bill from new york, unemployed. caller: just a question regarding the extra money the federal government gives, in our case it's musicians. because restaurants have been closed and there were no weddings. you could be hired for or class reunions and things of that nature, so filing for that, i

heard that assistance, i shouldn't be complaining, but sent in my tax returns so the state gave this portion. they received this $300 from federal. so i'm wondering how many other people there are like that not only in the entertainment business but how that can be looked at. host: judy. do we know how many people are getting more -- earning more getting more from enhance unemployment benefits plus state benefits than they did working at a job? guest: we do not know precisely the answer to that. we do know by large numbers, by large percentages that the

balance is people are getting less than they got when they were working pre-pandemic. even with the supplement. bill is an unusual case, i'm not saying he's the only person, that certainly happens to people. i'm sorry you are making so little in the first instance frankly. artists, people in performing arts and the performers, musicians, all the technicians that support the industry have been brutalized in this pandemic. in particular, those workers that go from gig to gig and they are often classified as independent contractors, they do not have employers by and large. the pandemic unemployment assistance program was built specifically for. over the past 15 months i've been spending a lot of time working with a lot of the unions that support the creative parts. -- creative arts. the stories i hear from workers

and how they can barely get by, people have left new york and california and north carolina in places where there's vibrant communities moving back home to smaller towns where they can afford to support themselves and the benefits they are getting. so that the reality is the program is one that only pays a lot of income -- a moderate might of income to people. the imprecise number, $600, $300, we have to do something that's one number across the board from everybody because of the problems with technology. it's a way to try and make people as close to whole as possible while they literally cannot work because the government to shut down their industries. host: let's go to bradley in west virginia. caller: good morning.

i'm a vietnam veteran and i'm making this comment judy and michael both. our jobs left the country. good paying jobs. you go to the store and you pick up something to buy, made in vietnam. we built them roads and bridges in airports, we spent all of our money. my hair is standing up right now my arm thinking about this. we spent all this money and they took our jobs. they went across to countries. archon -- our jobs, general motors, all this foreign junk coming into the country. about a swing set for my granddaughter made in china. i'll go barefoot before i wear them, took them back. that's where the good paying jobs went. all we have is hamburger flipping jobs. i have received -- my wife

received one $600 payment. we've been helping both of my daughters. she got unemployed, their multiple times they had to shut down. my other doctor -- my other daughter is a beautician. multiple times they do shutdown like barbara drops. multiple times they do shutdown. if it hadn't been for us helping her she would've been homeless. the country needs to wake up and these people need to quit buying this foreign junk in the country needs to start supporting itself instead of supporting other countries. have a good day. host: michael, you go first. guest: i think the video delay

might have affected things. i wasn't smiling or laughing at what you were saying. you mentioned being an engineer and my first career was an engineer as well. i really appreciate your service. hearing you brought back memories of my father who was navy search-and-rescue in vietnam. so i completely agree with what you're saying. this kind of ties into a point judy was saying that the mandatory shutdowns that were created in the beginning of the pandemic and even later in the pandemic to try and get a hold of the situation to try and reduce the spread of the disease , that shut down -- shut down entire industries. in those situations it makes a lot of sense that when the

government tell someone you can work anymore in the job you were working at to make that person whole. i was not at all opposed to the betterment that was part of the original unemployment insurance and the initial response to the pandemic. i think it makes a little bit of sense to scale that down in terms of the $300 amounts now per week, but one of the other things we need to look at is making it easier for people to go out and get better jobs in the u.s.. you talk about manufacturing shifting overseas and you are exactly right, that has been what has happened. but the fact we are all watching this lightly on flat screen's and -- or flatscreen monitors, none of that is made in the

u.s.. it is affordable because it is made by workers in lower cost-of-living, lower cost paid countries. they are now enjoying the rise in the quality of living that americans enjoyed as a result of american industrial might during the early 1900s. so i would not include someone else from pulling themselves up by their bootstraps to give us things that we enjoy every day. but what i think we need to do, we have shifted from a manufacturing focused economy to a services focused economy. we need to get more barriers out of the way because i bet that your daughters who were service professionals, they probably face significant barriers in

order to start those jobs. and arguably those barriers keep people out, we need to figure out ways to reduce occupational licensing laws to the barest minimum to avoid keeping people out because part of my other research involves looking at how special-interest twist government authority to serve their own interests rather than the general welfare and there's a lot of different workers groups that try to close the door behind them or latch up development behind them to make it harder for people to get into the industry so that they can receive essentially monopolistic style wages by decreasing the amount of supply of that labor. i think that's one of the ways we can make some real reforms to help ensure this is not a jobless recovery make sure people have the kind of job to pay them a good living wage that allow them to be comfortable and

not have to land family members. it's a wonderful thing you were able to help your daughters. guest: just quickly i think there's also other tools we can be using to make sure that we do keep more jobs in the united states. for example there now tax incentives that are available for people who offshore jobs. we need to close the loophole on that. there's a new initiative president biden is running, staffing up as we speak and i am hopeful that will help us engage better with not just free-trade, but fair trade policies that balance the need for our participation in a global economy where we use our consumer dollars to raise conditions and human rights for people everywhere in the world, but also are mindful of the ways we need to protect jobs in our own country.

but i understand the caller frustration. i am glad his daughters are working in jobs that cannot be outsourced, but we need to do is put on the right kind of pressures to make sure they are good jobs. the people can get them, we agree on the need for licensing reform, especially people who have prior criminal record and have finished a jail sentence formally incarcerated people have the most unreasonable barriers to so many types of jobs in this country and that's one place we need to do something with reform as well. is a lot to unpack, a lot we could be doing. it does mean congress needs to be a partner in creating better jobs by doing what it can put upward pressure on wages, to make sure all jobs have good benefits, to make sure health care in this country is a right and not a privilege and to make

sure that we don't get rewards in the form of tax cuts to businesses that offshore jobs that could stay in this country. host: what are you watching for next on the economy? guest: mostly i'm looking for a number of vaccinations to increase. i think they may jobs report which the data will be collected for this week actually, that will be released in early june. i think you will start to see the effects of widespread vaccine availability which started in mid april and then by june at that point if you haven't got a vaccine is like what are you waiting for. so i would expect to see may job numbers in the june jobs numbers substantially better than aprils if the may jobs numbers are still a rimshot of not as good

as expected, than i would start to say we need to start looking at better reforms and additional things to trying get people out of the house and into the labor market. a lot of people are going to be having trouble readjusting their life back to normal, but the faster we can do that the better chance we have of avoiding a jobless recovery. guest: i will also be looking at vaccinations. and i in particular to underserved communities. we know for example rural communities are having trouble getting the vaccines. we know black and brown communities are being -- are not being vaccinated at the same rate. so if we really want a recovery, we need to make sure all of our policies whether it be economic

policy, vaccine and public health policy, that it all centers itself on the most vulnerable. they need to be where we are paying the most attention because those of the folks that are hardest to reach. in terms of unemployment insurance in particular, we have such a moment of opportunity, the present is called for congress to rise in american families plan and do serious employment reform. we know how this system can and should function to help support families but we also know all of the ways it's failed in this recession. we need to make sure that we are mandating that states have adequate benefit levels, at least 26 weeks of duration, replacing enough wages that yes it does not make it easy for someone to stay home but it makes it possible for them and their family to thrive while they are still looking for jobs.

we don't think reemployment bonuses of the way to go. michael's evidence of idaho offering bonuses and immediately having 10,000 people apply for them means people are going back to work and they don't need the reemployment bonus. they are doing what they are supposed to do because adults want to work, they want to support themselves. they need the benefits that come with work. so use that money instead to support ailing communities and people who are struggling. but we have got to succeed the unemployment insurance program. you have to invest a substantial amount of money and technological upgrades, personnel and making sure there adequate benefits so when people lose a job it is not just condemning them to poverty and weakening their communities by pulling that consumer money out of it. host: judy and michael, we thank

you both for the conversation. guest: a pleasure to be here today. guest: thanks so much. host: we will take a quick break. when we come back, we pick up from our conversation earlier about your job situation during the pandemic. there are the lines on your screen. start dialing in. ♪ >> listen to book notes plus. doris kearns goodwin talks of the white house seen during fdr's presidency. book notes plus, new episodes are available every tuesday morning, a subscriber you get your podcasts. there is more about all the c-span podcasts at c-span.org/podcasts. ♪ >> coming up today, dr. fauci and cdc director dr. rochelle

walensky override an update on the covid-19 response at a senate health hearing iva 10:00 a.m. eastern on c-span. at 2:00 p.m. the house is back for work on legislation dealing with suicide prevention and mental health services. on c-span two, the senate returns at 10:00 a.m. eastern to consider nominations for deputy secretary at hhs and the education department. on c-span three at 10:00 a.m., law-enforcement officials and firearms experts testify at a senate judiciary subcommittee hearing on reducing gun violence . that's followed by an afternoon hearing with irs officials on efforts to address the widening gap between taxes owed and taxes paid in the u.s.. there's more streaming on our website including a send homeland security hearing on preventing and responding to cyber attacks within the federal government. that's 10:00 a.m. eastern.

at two: 30, a hearing on the freight industry and its effect on the u.s. supply chains. c-span shop -- c-spanshop.org is the c-span online store. go there to order a copy of the congressional directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration candidate. browse our newest products. >> "washington journal" continues. host: democrats and republicans are back in washington debating whether or not enhanced unemployment benefits are disincentive eyes and people to return to work. here is the front page of the wall street journal this morning , president biden disputes argument that hands on employee benefits or hampering the economy.

>> because of the american rescue plan, forecasters are projecting we will see the fastest economic growth in nearly 40 years. we are moving in the right direction. so let's be clear, our economic plan is working. i never said and no serious analyst ever suggested that climbing out of the deep hole our economy was in would be simple, easy, immediate or perfectly studied. remember, 22 million americans lost their jobs to this pandemic. so some months will exceed expectations, others will fall short. the question is what is the trendline. are we heading in the right direction, retaking the right steps to keep it going. the answer clearly is yes. >> the president depending -- defending his policy. caller: thank you for taking my

call. i work in what was called an essential job, i work in a paper mill. manufacturing paper and toilet tissue, things like that. it is a union job and prior to the pandemic, we had a steady flow of new hires through. we did not see unemployment signs in the windows in our community. today, there is nobody in the pipeline for a job at the mill i work at. it is a guaranteed $50,000 year job if you walk in the door and you make it a year you will have a $50,000 a year job without a college education. we cannot get people. the fast food restaurant across the road has to stay shut down

for inside service because they can't get enough people to work and so the president, bless his heart, does not have an idea of what life is like for people that actually work and when you get here in tennessee 300 to 75 -- 300 and 275, that's a lot more they were making while they were working and they will do that until it runs out in september and then they are going to flood to get these jobs in august and september. host: so if you make $50,000 a year -- not you, but to your point about starting out you could make $50,000. how far does that go in athens, tennessee? caller: a long way.

you could own a house, two vehicles. i live in the middle between chattanooga and knoxville right on the i-75 corridor. jobs are available everywhere. you cannot go anywhere without there being a sign in the window for jobs. good jobs. technicians at the ford dealership, factory jobs, entry-level jobs, jobs are there for people not working because they are getting government money. host: let's hear from janice in colorado springs. caller: i agree with this man 100%. i feel of the jobs are there, people should go to work and if you can go to work, at least try. you should only get half of what they are getting right now. $300, not $600. this is crazy. host: what do you see in

colorado springs? caller: here, i'm retired, but i remember when i was unemployed, we got $15 a week, but we went out and tried to get a job. not this business of people sitting there and get more money than what they got when they were employed. this is crazy. and they also see the younger generation i saw on the news where they absolutely went out and were so happy to get this $1400, they were the racetracks instead of really needing it. this is stupid. host: lauren in florida. -- lauren in florida. caller: i just wanted to say something, what i heard on the program, i-26 in vietnam and i served about a year and a half in vietnam. at the same time i was serving in vietnam, george wallace was

standing in the door of the university of alabama and would not let those black students go to the university of alabama and i said to myself where should i be with this m-16 rifle, vietnam or the university of alabama? if america had treated the rights of the people this country like they should've treated them, they wouldn't have the products being made and manufactured overseas if they had treated the workers in the field, they wouldn't of had the mexicans come across the border. host: we will go to liz in new jersey. caller: good morning. i'm calling just to say i think

for the first time probably in close to 40 years because of the disappearance of both good paying american jobs and unions that were part of that, we are seeing now with the government stepping in and awful pandemics to help people through that time when they could not work, we shouldn't of had them out there working. the employers now have some real competition for workers. they are not just flocking and at the lowest possible wages. the unemployment, my suggestion would be new jersey has a very good unemployment system and we pay one of the highest pre-pandemic unemployment rates for workers based on their

earnings, but we pay into it. i think all of these independent contractors and other folks who work without benefits, in the time of pandemic they really qualify for zero unemployment. we had to take care of them but they should be reentering the workplace where they are part of the program and paying into it. host: if you want to join the conversation you can text us with your first name, city and state. you can send us a tweet with the handle at c-span wj or go to facebook.com/c-span and will will -- at @cspanwj or go to facebook.com/c-span. caller: that was working construction about furloughed because of the beginning of the

pandemic all work stopped in our state. everything completely stopped. and so i was forced to get unemployment and for me, living in florida, getting the extra -- getting the state and federal unemployment was enough to cover my family expenses. it frustrates me people sit here and say people are lazy, people are dumb or stupid for just getting these handouts. it's not a handout. $600 is not enough for a family of three or four to survive on. it's not. host: overtaxed saying if someone can make $50,000 a year like the man said why would they stay on unemployment which pays much less than that? kimberly in atlanta, you are next. you changed jobs. caller: i did, i moved into emergency rooms at the beginning

of the crisis with covid, i'm a social worker and a working mental health. for the people who are saying people would rather stay home and collect unemployment, if they really thought about it, i realized last night we've all been subsidizing restaurant wages. the only get paid $2.13 an hour. so now with less people going and with unemployment benefits paying them more than that, can we really blame anyone, they weren't getting paid a living wage to begin with. so now we need to shift the focus instead of saying people would rather sit at home and collect unemployment, how about they were never getting paid a living wage to begin with and that's the problem. they couldn't afford to be there in the first place and we were

all subsidizing their employment if you think about it. so now we are turning to the business and saying you need to have more ethical and fair business practices and pay people who work 40 hours a week enough to live. host: out of iowa, sarah who is a producer for w ally tv says the governor there says iowa will end participation in federal pandemic related unplanned benefits programs getting june 12. these payments are discouraging people from returning to work from the governor. encouraging everyone they can to get back to work. wayne in minnesota, welcome to the conversation. caller: i just have a solution to the problem, all they have to do is raise the minimum wage and people will go back to work. that's the only solution. i hear all these other people complain about people don't want

to go back to work. making as much on unemployment, just raise the minimum wage and they wouldn't have a problem no more. host: happening in washington tomorrow, the republicans behind closed doors will hold a vote on the future of liz cheney, whether or not she can hold the third leadership position for republicans in the house of representatives. kevin mccarthy, the minority leader sent a message to his rank and file saying you should anticipate a vote to recall conference chair this wednesday. we are a big tent party, we represent americans of all background and grow recruitment all day. we encourage debate. all members are elected to represent their constituents as they see fit, but our leadership team cannot afford to be distracted from the important work we were elected to do and share our goals we hope to achieve. the stakes are too high to come up short.

i trust you agree. he is backing your publican of new york for conference chair. reaction to this vote, mitt romney, republican of utah sending out a tweet reacting to it saying expelling her from leadership won't gain the gop one additional voter but it will cost us quite a few. and then craig gilbert who covers wisconsin politics tweeted out i've heard from four wisconsin's five top republicans. all four say they will vote to oust liz cheney -- liz cheney for leadership. this time he says she can no longer unify the house republican conference. when she was challenged in february she won that secret vote 145-61. matt in indiana, good morning to you. caller: good morning. i'm retired and i've social security and pension but there were times we were doing for

days for 20 months and being laid off. i was making $22 an hour before. so therefore i'm not in a go take a job and most people won't normally take a job working mcdonald's or this job and you have to -- you have a standard of living where you can hardly make your car payment or rent so you're going to stay on it as long as you can because you don't have the offshoot because of your standard of living. no they are not get that as long as they can keep away from it because they can keep themselves up. i go along with living wage if you had offshoots where you could get a decent living payment. host: tracy sends us this. at the end of march 2020 asserted teleworking. went back in the office in june. talk covid in october from a coworker. they tried to bring people back and covid ran rampant in the building. ian in new york. caller: how are you doing.

just wanted to bring up a point. i'm a coast guard captain and i have my own construction company. i wanted to bring up the point when people work and are unemployed and then go get the cash. it's not only are they getting more money that they would make working but they have the free time and not all of them are like the kid with the lobster bragging about he was on welfare . a lot of them aren't lazy, they go out and get this money and then they go and make cash and i'm sure a good percentage of them are doing that so it's got to be stopped. this got a be an incentive for sitting at home doing nothing. anybody, if you make $100,000 or to hunt a thousand dollars and say -- and someone says i'll give you 300,000 to sit at home. you have to be a driven person. it makes us feel good.

everything that comes along with work. host: sonya in atlanta, you lost your job. tell us your story. caller: during the pandemic in march of 20 everything shut down. my point is are these jobs begging people to come in to their place making it safe for people to come back? have these people made sure that their employees got the vaccine shot? it's about safety out here to me. you're begging me to come into your place to give you my money, but yet you are not making it safe. host: the latest. the latest out of israel from

the french news agency reporting a rocket fired from gaza killed two women in the southern israeli city. on tuesday the emergency services pulled the news agencies that after palestinian -- told the news agencies. this is also stepping up attacks on hamas. this comes after eviction's of palestinians from jerusalem and the hill newspaper notes outrages rising among liberals over israel's actions. progressives critical of israel. we are asking your job situation during the pandemic, did you get a job, have you lost a job, did you change jobs. these are the phone numbers prayed we have a few minutes left in the conversation.

before we take you up to capitol hill to hear testimony from dr. fauci who is already in the room on capitol hill along with cdc director dr. rochelle walensky, they will be testifying the latest on the governments pandemic response. if you have got a job, lost a job, changed a job, all others, we want to hear from you. they will gavel in a couple of minutes. live coverage on c-span of dr. fauci and dr. walensky's testimony. jeremy, who covers capitol hill tweeting this out, investigators are seeking to speak to a former hill in turn and online girlfriend to her present of matt gaetz says they are nearly finished and evidence in that probe. let's go to cindy in woodbridge, illinois. you lost a job, good morning. caller: good morning. i did lose my job but yesterday they called me back to work and

i accepted it and i will run back as fast as i can. host: congratulations. caller: i am very happy. i'd like to tell all the viewers that drawing unemployment now the extra money in any of your family members you better tell them to take the jobs when they are offered back because there's close to half a million illegal immigrants that's also going to pick up those jobs and you're really good to be sorry. host: john in orlando, florida. caller: i'd like to see the biden administration advance their proposals to severe -- or severely limit noncompete contracts because a lot of the issue in florida are forcing people into these that are trapping us so you don't want to take a job because you're going in blind and he could be the worst in the world and then you need a lawyer to help you out. host: kenneth in denver,

colorado. caller: i want -- i'm going to be 65 year this coming year and i caught covid in july. i had a little fever, overcame it but i got a job, i applied for seasonal labor at the department of parks and her and they hired me and i'm working now. what i found out is a lot of these young people, they don't want to work. they are lazy. i just can't believe it. all i see is these kids today, their faces stuck in a screen, i even see them driving like that, they are not even looking at the road. they are looking down. host: clarissa in washington, d.c.. caller: i think there's two issues that are not being talked about and that is the fact women who have children, their kids are not in school, daycare's are

shutdown. that's a lot of the workforce right there. that's a lot of people. your child can be watched in the morning till 6:00 at night and that's no longer happening so that's one issue. another is mental health. if you have depression, it can mean that you can even move your body for like an hour at a time and you don't know when that's going to happen or when it's knocking to happen. people with faces and their screens right be going through a depressive episode. so the medication needed was extremely hard to get and that medication is a schedule one drug.

and if you try to get all the doctors act like you are a drug addict. your health insurance won't accept it and it took me years to get it and without it i am going through that situation. host: i apologize for abruptly ending the conversation, we will be back tomorrow with more of your questions and comments. right now, up to capitol hill were dr. fauci in the cdc director are about to take their seats to testify on the latest on the pandemic response. live coverage on c-span, on our website and you can download the free c-span radio app. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2020]

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>> we are waiting for a hearing to begin, and dr. anthony thought she and dr. rochelle belinsky will be updating us on the covid-19 pandemic -- dr. rochelle walensky will be updating us on the covid-19 pandemic. you are watching c-span.

>> we are waiting for a hearing for dr. fauci and dr. walensky: to get started, they will be testifying about covid-19. the committee is chaired by senator patty murray. this is live coverage on c-span. >>