science monitor reporter simon montlake talks about cities experimenting with guaranteed basic income. washington journal is next. host: good morning. it is saturday, may 15. the cdc signed off on expanding the use of pfizer's covid-19 vaccine to 12 to 15-year-olds and thousands of kids begin taking the shot thursday. this morning, we want to talk to parents only. we want to know if you plan to vaccinate your kids. if you do, (202) 748-8000 is the number to call in. if you do not, (202) 748-8001. for those who are not sure, (202) 748-8002.

you can also give us a text message. send that to (202) 748-8003. please include your name and where you are from. otherwise catch up with us on social media. on twitter, @cspanwj, on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. you can start calling in now. parents only is who we are talking to, the washington journal asking you what conversations you are having with your kids about getting vaccinated. what questions are they asking you? this is president biden from earlier this week urging parents to get their kids vaccinated. [video clip] >> we know kids at this age are at risk from covid-19. 3 million covid-19 cases have been reported in kids under 17. teenagers can spread it to their friends, siblings, parents and grandparents.

now that vaccine is authorized for ages 12 and up, and i encourage their parents to make sure they get the shot. as i promised last week, we are ready. this new population is going to find the vaccine rollout fast and efficient. as of tomorrow, more than 15,000 pharmacies across this country will be ready to vaccinate this age group. most of these pharmacies are close to the family home as the kids school is. we will also be getting vaccines to pediatricians and family doctors, so parents and children can talk to their doctors who they trust about getting the vaccination and be able to do it at that office. we are partnering with school-based clinics and community health centers. of course, we remain focused on equity in our vaccine program. the vaccine is free for everyone -- free.

additionally, they can get their first shot in one place and the second elsewhere. we are also launching important public education campaigns. first and foremost, we are providing families with medical information they need to make informed decisions about the vaccination and the vaccine. our medical and scientific experts at cdc and the national institute of health will be out in the public every day to answer questions and get the facts out. we will also be partnering with the health care providers, schools, community organizations, states, tribes and cities at the same time. the vaccine for kids between 12 and 15 are safe, effective, easy, fast and free. my hope is that parents will take advantage of the vaccine and get their kids vaccinated. host: president biden earlier

this week. this morning, parents only. parents of children any age -- do you plan to get your kids vaccinated, whether it is in the 12 to 15 category, or perhaps down the road? we want to know whether you want to get your kids vaccinated. [video clip] if you do -- (202) 748-8000 if you do. (202) 748-8001 if you do not. (202) 748-8002 if you are not sure. some polling from late april before that announcement this week from the cdc and the fda about opening up the vaccine to 12 to 15-year-olds. 30% of parents of children ages 12 to 15 said they would get their children vaccinated right away once the vaccine is authorized. 26% said they would wait to see how it is working.

18% said they would vaccinate only if their children's school required it. 23% said they will definitely not get their children vaccinated 23% said they will definitely not get their children vaccinated. breaking it down by ethnic and racial groups, some 25% of black parents, 30 percent of hispanic parents, 30% of white parents and 25% of black parents saying they would wait how it is working. again, the breakdown from the kaiser family foundation polling. we want to hear from parents this morning. tell us about the conversations you are having with your kids of any age and what questions they are asking you about getting vaccinated. earlier this week, dr. anthony fauci was on cbs this morning talking about whether kids should get vaccinated, asked

that question, this was dr. fauci. [video clip] >> you don't want to in any manner or form have the parents feel like they are doing something wrong by questioning it. it is a perfectly normal thing to be concerned about your children and to question, and that's the reason why you want to get them as much information as you possibly can and be very open and transparent about the information. it is very important for children to get vaccinated, one, because even though it is quite true that children who get infected, the seriousness of infection in children is clearly less than the potential in certain adults, particularly the elderly and those with underlying conditions, but we also see younger people get into serious trouble. at a very low rates, but in serious trouble. when children get infected -- host: speaking earlier this week

on cbs this morning. part of the interview we are playing. we want to hear from parents only asking you whether you plan to get your kids vaccinated. the fda signing off on vaccinations for 12 to 15-year-olds earlier this week and that age group is allowed to get vaccinated this week. a couple groups -- in wisconsin, over 3012 to 15-year-olds -- over 3000 12 to 15-year-olds vaccinated the first day available. the arizona run sites in phoenix and tucson and yuma and flagstaff administer more than 6000 covid-19 vaccine doses on thursday. they saw the greatest demand in the late afternoon as parents

brought in their kids ages 12 to 15 to be vaccinated. that from the department of health services of arizona. one more headline for you, going back to the upper midwest, michigan. michigan radio, the headline on their story -- fear, freedom and keeping mom safe, 12 to 15-year-olds on why they are getting vaccinated. earlier this week on the washington journal, we talk to dr. paul offet about the issue of kids and vaccines. here's a little bit of that interview. [video clip] >> a vaccine for a child versus an adult, except for the size of the individual, what are the differences? >> for the 12 to 15-year-old, it is not surprising that the doses used in those children was exactly the same as in 16 to 17-year-olds and the dosing interval was the same because

biologically there is not a big difference between those groups. as you get to younger children, there will be more extensive dose range trials to make sure you have exactly the right dose. 12 to 15 is easy because the interval is the same. host: any risk of newborns or toddlers getting covid? could we see vaccines for them? guest: it is possible. everybody is at risk, but younger children are infected less frequently and severely, but they can be infected. 3.2 million children in this country have already been infected from this virus. hundreds have died. we see a disorder called multisystem inflammatory disease, which is crazy. it usually happens in children six to 14. they start with a trivial infection, often picked up by accident. they are exposed to someone infected. they test positive and have no

symptoms. they come back and they are not shedding virus anymore. they have antibodies. at the same time, they have high fever and evidence of organ damage. it is frightening to watch. if any parent wants to convince themselves they should vaccinate their children, they should come around to our covid ward and see what this looks like. host: dr. paul offet earlier this week, monday, taking a look at various aspects of the covid-19 pandemic response. we want to hear from parents and grandparents as well about the idea of vaccinating kids. let us know what you think, whether you think kids should be vaccinated, should not, whether you are unsure. parents and grandparents can call in on (202) 748-8000 if they think kids should be vaccinated, (202) 748-8001 if they should not, and if you are

unsure, (202) 748-8002. one of the tweets from the conversation happening at -- happening [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] -- @cspanwj -- "my kids are grown, but they didn't raise any dummies." a grandparent. if you are a grandparent, call in as well. we want to hear from you amid this conversation about children and covid-19. dr. paul offit is from the children's hospital of philadelphia. in the interview, talking about statistics. some numbers from the american academy of pediatrics. 14% of all covid cases in the u.s., children were the ones who contracted covid. 3.8 5 million children they were 1.2% to 3.1% of total

reported hospitalizations for covid and between zero and point 21% of all covid-19 deaths -- and .21 percent of all covid deaths. it appears that severe illness due to covid rare among children. there is an urgent need, they write, to take more data on long-term impacts on children, including the way the virus may hurt the long-term physical health of children and its emotional and until health effects -- and mental health effects. that from the american academy of pediatrics. we went to get your thoughts on this idea of vaccinating children. we will keep the numbers on your screen as we hear from danny in farmington, missouri. good morning. caller: host: host: good morning to you. i don't see this as anything short of the smallpox or measles

vaccination. you know, it was a government mandated thing. i don't see the problem. so i don't understand what the problem is and why we are all suddenly hesitant of accepted policies. host: danny, a lot of talk about going lower than 12 to 15 on vaccinating kids. does that give you any concern or are you willing to follow the cdc recommendations, the fda recommendations, as low as they go? caller: i -- well, to be perfectly honest, i cannot remember how exactly i was of age when i got the smallpox vaccination, but i know there were probably 200 of us lined up in the line going up into a courthouse being -- i mean, it

was a mandate. i had the moderna vaccine, both shots, and i had no problem. host: you have no problem if schools this fall mandate it, then, for children to return to the classroom? caller: i think the science has proven that it is fine. i don't see why -- you know, people should wake up and, you know, quit arguing over a mask. they have turned this into a democrat, blue and red thing, and no. i didn't have a problem with it. if the science shows up that it is unsafe, i think it will be revealed.

host: danny, thanks from the call. from farmington, missouri this morning. matt is out of new york on that line for those who say no, children should not be vaccinated. go ahead. caller: this is lunacy. this is an unproven, untested, experimental vaccine. it was tested on animals and every animal died. what the heck are we doing? host: it has been tested. there were tests that had to be done before it got the fda emergency use authorization and the cdc authorization and there were tests done on children in this category just like there were tests done for adults for the pfizer vaccine was approved as well. caller: really? how long have they observed them? usually you have to wait four to five years to see the side effects and even longer to see if there are birth defects.

you have women reporting that this vaccine is actually communicable, so the actual side effects are jumping from the vaccinated person to a nonvaccinated person. this is disgusting. shame on all of you. shame on you. this is horrible. host: matt in new york. this is cliff out of texas. good morning. caller: good morning to you. well, i am an older father. all of my kids have been vaccinated. they are in the workforce. also, i am a little bit let's say afraid of the vaccine myself. i think that the public -- you know, let me say this and i will finish. i have a friend in kansas whose friend next-door who got the vaccine and died.

i heard a congressman say that three of his best friends got the vaccine and they all had strokes. now, my point is, if this has been reported -- but i think that a lot of this, you know, neighborhood conversation that's going on with the vaccine has to be taken somewhat credible. i am like the last caller. i don't know if the whole story on this vaccine has been told and it worries me. host: when do you think you will trust it, cliff? how long do you have to wait? the other caller was saying he thinks tests in the past for other vaccines have gone on for years. will you wait years before you trusted? -- you trust it? caller: i had covid last year

and i got through it. i am still having lingering symptoms. i am one of the ones that you would call long-haulers. my story -- i had a five month fight and i got over it. i felt good for five months, better than ever, and i started having symptoms six weeks ago again. for me, have been told not to get vaccinated because of all that, but as far as me personally being comfortable with the vaccine, yes. look, here's the deal. if i ask my doctor -- let's say i never had covid -- if i asked my doctor tell me the condition i will be in 12 months from now, tell me what it will look like, and i am telling you there's not one doctor in the world that can answer that question, so that, just on a common sense basis, is

of concern. god bless the makers of this vaccine. i hope that in the end it will save the planet, you might say, but i think the ones who are concerned have a little bit of a different opinion than all the ones who are saying go get vaccinated. i think those opinions should be respected. host: that is cliff in texas. talking about kids and vaccines. this weekend, the cdc approved the pfizer vaccine for 12 to 15-year-olds. asking parents in general about whether you plan to get your kids vaccinated as vaccinations are being eyed down the road for kids younger than 12. some of those trials happening already. thomas in strongsville, ohio said no. good morning. caller: good morning to you all. i have a lot of concerns about it because, you know, like other callers have said it a lot of things have happened that have

been unreported. then there's also the fact of how potent is this vaccine? it seems to me there's been a vast array of people getting reinfected. the yankees opened and are getting reinfected. you have late show host -- host: bill maher. caller: yes. host: do you have kids? caller: i have two kids in high school. i am leaning towards no. host: do they want to? caller: they are really afraid of it -- they aren't really afraid of it. they have been in school since spring. there hasn't been any major

outbreaks or anything at the school. no one has suffered any illnesses or deaths that i have known of. i think they are pretty much immune to it. granted, the overpopulation is a problem, and it seems some immune systems are well, and then you have the fact that people that have been -- have gotten covid and have responded well to it and have antibodies that the body already built up for it. they don't really need to take it. and we are not testing for that. host: that is thomas in ohio. children certainly not immune. representing 14% of all covid cases in this country, but a very small portion of total reported hospitalizations and an even smaller portion of covid-19 deaths in this country.

hearing from parents only this morning, parents and grandparents, on this idea of vaccinating younger kids. joe is in illinois on that line for those who say kids should be vaccinated. how old are your kids? caller: 12 and 15. they fall in that range. we already did. we got the vaccinated yesterday. -- got them vaccinated yesterday. host: what sort of conversations did you have with your kids of that age about the vaccine? caller: they are pretty smart about it because we follow what is going on, what we hear on tv, and what we read and get on the internet, but the main concern was the school in illinois, where we live, they were always closing up as far as going to school two days a week. and the in-person learning just wasn't there and they want to go back to school, so it was a way of hopefully, as markets get

vaccinated, more protection for the children and teachers. host: what are your rules on your kids hanging out with other kids? do you have rules about whether they can do it if the kids are vaccinated or not? do you mind me asking? caller: i would say, yeah, if the other kids are vaccinated and i am following what dr. fauci is saying, you can be with other people that are vaccinated as well. and not wear a mask. host: is that something parents have to ask now before play dates with kids? are they vaccinated? caller: i don't know. because i would think so, you know, being honest, but i would say too, because if you are vaccinated, and they say you are fully vaccinated and another kid is not and you cannot get it

because you are fully vaccinated, you know. host: the risk is on the other kid, you are saying. caller: more or less. it is a parent's right to decide what they want to do, but going through a whole year on lockdown. you know, i see kids in the neighborhood not even being with other kids anymore, not even coming over. we see it here. host: would you be offended or answer the question if some parent you did not know said my kid is playing with your kid. are your kids vaccinated? would you be offended? caller: not all. -- not at all. you are trying to protect the other person and yourself. i think that was the whole deal with the mask wearing. host: last question. what was that experience like, taking the 12 to 15-year-old in?

did you get to sit next to your kid? what was it like? caller: it was great because it was done through my some's high school. -- my son's high school. we went to the high school. it was done by a provider that had it in the high school and it was exciting. we had a 2:00 appointment. there were many people at the vaccination site. as we were coming out, there was a swarm of kids and parents. it was great to see. people coming in to get the vaccine. host: thanks for the call. have a great saturday in illinois. talking with joe and some other callers about kids and schools and vaccines to help get kids back in school. here's a headline from yesterday's washington post, the

news coming on thursday -- teachers unions backing a full return to school in the fall. the two largest teachers unions in favor of a move that many had resisted before. one, the american federation of teachers, the president, randy weingarten, it was during an address this week in which she spoke about the importance of returning to the classroom full time in the fall. [video clip] >> during this time, when so many schools had to close for in person teaching and learning, there has been a new appreciation for public schools. there's no doubt schools must be open in person, five days a week, with the space and facilities to do so. we know that's how kids learn best and that prolonged isolation is harmful. school is where children learn. it is where they work and play

together. it is where they form relationships and learn resilience. it is where many children who otherwise might go hungry eat breakfast and lunch. parents rely on schools too not only to educate their kids but so they can work, like the 3 million moms who dropped out of the workforce during the pandemic. host: randy weingarten of the american federation of teachers thursday in that address about schools in this country. we are talking to parents this morning, parents of kids of any age, asking, do you plan to vaccinate your kids? henry is in new york, says no. how old are your kids? caller: my grandson is nine years old. host: why don't you think he should get a vaccine if it becomes available for nine-year-olds? officially, the authorization is down to 12 years old at this point. host: eventually it --

caller: eventually it will go down lower because of the transmission. i am the other end of the spectrum. i am 67. listening to the pros and cons, i was about to get vaccinated and then i heard that the development of this vaccine was done differently than in the past because they genetically modified protein in order to, i guess, attacked the virus, which makes it more effective. they are not sure of the future, where the variants might be so different that the virus does not recognize it, and it goes into overdrive and it overwhelms the body. we don't know this. that's a concern for most people my age or older versus looking at children. that's the scary part. when you ask scientists and doctors about that, no one can answer the question, and that's the scary part.

host: henry, you talk about the nine-year-old. what kind of conversations, questions does that nine-year-old have with you about vaccines? is it a conversation yet? caller: it is and i think it is hard for a young child to conceptualize what this really means, so of course it is in the parent's decision-making, but again, you look at the spectrum from a child to an adult. that's the reason why people who are older are having a nay at the moment and saying this. i think it doesn't really clearly get out in the press and if you ask older people why, they will say they are concerned about the future, but they are concerned about what has been, i guess, broadcasted about the variants and the possibility that the way this was developed, this particular vaccine, could

go in override and maybe we start having a lot of problems and not having that kind of time. i understand we are up against a race between people dying from covid and people having possible reactions from the vaccine later on. we don't know. that's part of why i'm hesitant. host: that's henry new york. phone lines for parents or grandparents. (202) 748-8000 if you say yes, they should be vaccinated, or you plan to have your kid vaccinated. (202) 748-8001 if you fall into the no category. if you are not sure -- and we have not had any yet this morning -- (202) 748-8002 if you fall into that category. as we often do, the pole on our question -- the poll on our question @cspanwj if you want to respond.

not too many so far, but those who have have fallen overwhelmingly into the yes column. the official numbers from the cdc on the vaccination rate in this country available at their website, cdc.gov. as of the latest reporting, some 46 point 8% of the population has received at least one dose of the covid vaccine. just 36 .2% of the u.s. population is fully vaccinated. again, the numbers that scientists say we need to achieve to reach herd immunity fall in the 70% to 80% range and children make up some 20% of the population, so this is why there has been some focus on that category to bump up the overall numbers to achieve herd immunity when it comes to covid-19. when you go to the older population in this country, an overwhelming percentage of them

over 65 has had at least one dose of the covid vaccine, 84.2%. 72.1% of the over 65 population in this country is fully vaccinated. those numbers available every day at cdc.gov. we are focusing on kids and talking to parents and grandparents of children. aaron and massachusetts says he will get his kids vaccinated. how old are your kids? caller: i have about 10 kids, so i don't know which one you want me to start with. host: we will move on. we will go to paula in st. petersburg, florida. caller: in the grandparent of an 18-year-old -- i am the grandparent of an 18-year-old. he's getting his second shot at the end of this month. i have already had covid. he got to experience seeing me,

because he lives with me. i don't wish that on a body. i have to wait 90 days so i'm definitely going to get my vaccine when i am eligible. host: paula, i wonder if that headline we talked about earlier from michigan radio struck a chord with you -- fear, freedom and keeping mom safe: 12 to 15-year-olds on why they are getting vaccinated. that story on michigan radio interviewed several children on the first day of vaccination. max hollander was one of them. he said i was worried about my mom because she said it would be bad if she got covid but now we both have the vaccine. she got both of them and i have one of them. summer will be easier, he said. we will get to have sleepovers now. i wonder if that story strikes you. caller: yeah. for sure. i mean, i just think it is a

necessary thing for us to get vaccinated. i tried getting vaccinated early on and i wasn't able to get an appointment. i am 75, so as soon as i am able to get one i definitely will get one. host: explain why you haven't been able to get one yet. caller: early on, it was more difficult to get an appointment. now it is not, but i will definitely get one i think in june. i think then i will be eligible. host: why would you have to wait until june? caller: they recommend 90 days after you have been infected. host: gotcha. thanks for the call. andrea next in new hope, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: i am doing well. go ahead. caller: i am a stepmom and we are not getting these kids vaccinated for many reasons. there are many reasons why we are not doing it.

first and foremost, we have had the conversation with the kids who were in their teens, and the overwhelming theme from these children is they don't want to do it because they see there's really no benefit to it, so if they get vaccinated, they still have to wear a mask. you know, these kids, they don't want to do it, and we are not forcing them to do it. these vaccines are not fda approved. it is not that we are anti-sirs -- we are anti-vaxxers, but why is this vaccine being pushed so hard? what is with all the coercion? you have doughnuts being offered and be your and money.

what is with the coercion? that is what scares me. why are they trying to coerce people into taking this? this is a parent's choice. host: andrea, wonder the things people -- andrea, one of the things people point to as the main reason to get vaccinated is to keep the number of deaths and cases down in this country. 581,573 deaths in this country. that would be the reason why many of these officials are pushing this. caller: and i do understand that and i feel terrible for the people that have passed because of this but it also shows that kids are not as susceptible as adults are and i don't believe

-- i do not believe -- enforcing -- believe in forcing or coercing people into vaccines or medical treatments. it is a person's right. if these kids said to me we want to get the vaccine, i would take them, but they don't want to do it. host: would you and your kids feel differently if it was not an emergency use authorization but a full vaccine approval? will you feel differently than? -- differently then? caller: probably not and this is why. we gave the kids the option. we gave these kids and opinion -- kids an opinion. and as far as the teachers union and the cdc, i don't understand how randi weinstein can come out

now and pretend she's a big advocate for these children. these children have been damaged beyond repair from what the cdc and the teachers union has done. we have dealt with depression. we have dealt with a myriad of things because of these people. the only reason why randi weingarten is coming out now is because they have been exposed in coercion with the cdc for the frauds that they are. host: andrea from pennsylvania. that statement from randi weingarten about kids coming back fully in the fall. in opposition, a group opposing the teachers union supports full reopening but gives the union little credit. "teachers unions have fought the science every step of the way.

i think she is reacting to the fact that she is well aware that parents and families are tired of the endless uncertainty about whether schools will reopen next year." that's from that washington post story on the reopening of schools and where teachers unions are now on this topic. francesca is in elkhorn, wisconsin, not sure whether she will get her kids vaccinated. how old are your kids? caller: i have a son who is 18 who is needle phobic, so he is not anxious to get the vaccination. and a global concern, the second-highest rating from india . so the variants coming in. even with boosters, there's not going to be the boosters that are tailored to specific

variants, but there will be boosters that are going to be more of the same, and once they start moving through these different classifications, just like i said, the variant in india and england, i am not sure there will be boosters that will be able to combat that. host: i think you said your son. does he get the flu shot? caller: he does not. he will not get this vaccination until it is something he can take by mouth or maybe like an easel spray. -- like a nasal spray. host: we were talking about play dates, kids getting together and whether it is ok to ask other parents if kids have been vaccinated before a play date happens. what is your take? caller: it is ok to ask, although i think probably we need to be erring on the side of

caution because of these variants, especially this one out of india, and probably stay masked up unless we are with people who are vaccinated. it is always a prerogative of someone to say no, they are not vaccinated. it is always a good sign of kindness and respect to go ahead and respond what your actions may be, not in a judgmental way, and let -- and let other people have their way. host: francesca in wisconsin. the phone numbers if you plan to get your kid vaccinated if they lower the age categories for the emergency use authorization, (202) 748-8000. if you don't plan to get your kids vaccinated, (202) 748-8001. and if you are not sure, (202)

748-8002. having this conversation with parents and grandparents for the next 20 minutes this morning on the washington journal, so keep calling in. we talked a little bit about school reopenings and vaccination of children and what it will mean for school reopenings. more from dr. anthony fauci on cbs morning from earlier this week on questions about vaccinations and schools this fall. [video clip] >> dr. fauci, given the importance use of getting kids -- the importance you say of getting kids vaccinated, do you think it should be required before going back to school? >> when you ever talk about requiring something, that's a charged issue. i am not sure we should be requiring children at all. we should be encouraging them. you have to be careful when you make a requirement. that usually gets you into a lot of pushback, understandable pushback. host: dr. anthony fauci from cbs

this morning earlier this week. back to your phone calls on this issue of vaccinating kids. cheryl in virginia, how old are your kids and what do you think? caller: 17, 19 and 21, all-female. i am advising them not to get the vaccine until, well, one, it has not been fda approved, so you still have the emergency use authorization, and so we just don't know what is going to happen. i am asking them to wait at least a year, until -- whenever women of a childbearing age star having babies -- age start having babies who have received the vaccine and are not having birth defects or effects on the reproductive system.

my young ladies one day want to be married ladies and have families and, you know, you cannot give a shot like that if it is not fda approved. there is not enough information about the effects on women of childbearing years or women lactating or women who are pregnant. what happens with that demographic? caller: have you have -- host: have you ever had any concern about any other vaccine your girls have gotten over their lifetime or is this the first time there has been that hesitancy there? caller: i have not, no peer they have been vaccinated -- i have not, no. they have been vaccinated the way most have the flu shot and that. like the one lady who talked about wire they pushing it? you put up the numbers of over 500,000 people have died from

it. host: the number of people who have died. caller: that's less than 1% of the population. we would have to get to 3 million to even get to 1%. i just don't understand the push to get this vaccine, and so i am concerned about it. i am not getting the vaccine. my mother is 83 years old and she says she's not getting it. we are concerned about the emergency use authorization. we are concerned about less than 1% of the american population has even died from covid, the way it is being pushed. host: cheryl, you would start to be concerned if we had 3 million dead in this country? caller: that would still be like 1%. no, i mean, if we were talking

higher numbers -- i mean, i don't know anyone who has died from covid. host: what number would concern you of dead americans from a disease? caller: you know, you know, this is the thing about your question. you don't like that i have those reservations. you are asking me a question like that. i don't want to see anyone die. what i'm saying is if the numbers are so low, wire are they pushing the vaccine like this? that is what i am saying. host: ok. cheryl, out of champion, pennsylvania. how old are your children? caller: 50 and 47. i have encouraged them to get the vaccine. i just was in the grip they got the polio vaccine when it first came out -- the group that got

the polio vaccine when it first came out and i believe that anything you can do to protect your children from getting ill or from having long-term effects from a disease is worth doing, so we definitely are for it, getting the vaccine. host: linda, how often do you talk to those great-grandchildren, the younger ones, about covid? have you had any conversations about the vaccine or your experience getting the vaccine? caller: we talk to them all the time. two great grandchildren live with us because of the covid problem in schools. their parent was not able to school them, so we took the two in. they have been living with us all year. host: how has that experience been, becoming a teacher as well as a great grandparent? guest: it has been wonderful --

caller: it has been wonderful, but then i am a retired teacher. it was very nice to get back in that swing again and i have enjoyed having them. i think we talked to all the children. i think some of them have reservations, but i personally have lost several friends to the covid vaccine. a friend of ours, a pastor, had to retire because of the ongoing effects of covid. host: a long-haul situation? caller: i'm sorry. we have not lost anyone because of the vaccine. we have lost several friends because of covid-19. and, yes, he had the long haul problems. it is not a good disease. if you can prevent the disease,

if you can prevent others from getting it, it is certainly something that you can do. host: before you go, last question for you, linda. for parents or grandparents who have struggled to transition to the role of teacher, what advice would you give them on becoming a teacher? caller: be patient. be patient, hang in there, do what you can to encourage the children to continue to learn. the two that we have are very happy. they seem to enjoy the learning process. we do that every way we can, just taking them to the store for the math and the reading. i would just say be patient because the children are very resilient. they bounce back.

they are just glad to be able to do what they can do and learn what they can learn, so don't be hard on yourself. host: linda, thanks. that's good advice. appreciate the call. have a great saturday. from newburgh, new york on that line for those who aren't sure about the idea of vaccinating kids, how old are your kids, bert? are you with us, bert? one more time for birch and then we will go to jennifer in new jersey -- for bert and then we will go to jennifer in new jersey. good morning. caller: hi. i have three daughters. host: three daughters. caller: hi. yes. good morning. i have three daughters, 14, 15 and 16. i don't plan on getting them vaccinated. and their biggest -- i thought the biggest concern in our world during this pandemic is the

focus on the geriatric community and people with underlying conditions and our focus is trying to protect them. and i just don't understand the shift to the youth getting vaccinated. i think most of these young children who are getting it, these younger people with no underlying conditions, they seem to present with a sniffle, cough, fever. this is what i am hearing from reading about it. and this is not fda approved. this is just for emergency authorization. it is an experimental vaccine, so i am not comfortable with it. host: two of the explanations given for that shift, one, simply the numbers. while children don't usually get very sick from this, there is still a chance. they represented up to 3.2 percent of total

hospitalizations from covid. the other aspect is this idea of herd immunity, to protect everyone. we need to get to somewhere between 70% and 80% vaccinated in this country. children account for about 20% of the population, so that's a big chunk of people that will help us get that herd immunity level. those are the two explanations we hear often. what do you make of those? caller: i understand what you are saying, the children and teens, again, they are not suffering too much from this from what i understand. why can't we really focus on vaccinating the people with those underlying conditions and the older people? my parents were vaccinated. my in-laws were vaccinated. my father just died. he was 86. he died last week. host: sorry for your loss. caller: thank you.

we cannot even see him. he just died. he did not die from covid. he had covid last year. he was treated like a prisoner. i saw him through a window. that's another issue. he got covid. he got the vaccine. that's another issue i cannot talk about. but i let my children go out. they wear their masks. we just went on a trip, came back, got tested. we do what we need to do. i am so happy that we were able to go on a trip and we weren't held prisoner in a home. i see so much fear about this. i am so glad my kids got on a plane and we went to florida. we came back and they were happy to be on the beach. i am digressing. host: one more question before you go. we have parents asking other parents about whether kids are vaccinated before they allow kids to play together.

what do you think of that question? caller: i heard that. yeah. if i were asked that, are your children vaccinated, i would respect that question and i would answer. i wouldn't be offended, but there's a lot of fear going on, a lot of fear, and this virus is not more dangerous than the emotional toll it is taking on children. these children ok, usually ok, when they get this virus. let the elders get vaccinated. i am sorry. i would like to wait a little bit and see what happens. again, this is an experimental vaccine. host: jennifer in new jersey this morning. a couple more calls in this segment. i want to get to matt, who has

been waiting in pennsylvania on the line for those who are not sure. go ahead. caller: hi. a question in regard to how do you prove that you got your shot? host: certainly a question a lot of people are asking. the vaccine passport issue and what is that, how does that look, should it be allowed? what do you think on that point? caller: basically, i had both of my shots, but yet if i lose my card, which could happen very easily, how do you prove you've had your shots? host: matt, what are you doing with that card, if it is something that you are worried about? caller: i was shocked to hear it. they said don't lose this. without this, you will have to get another round of shots.

i was like, my god, you have to be kidding me. so i made five duplicates. i was freaked out. host: do you keep one on you? caller: yeah. host: yeah. -- yeah. because i see the future. things like leprosy, people were treated differently if you cannot prove you have had your shot. if your card was washed in your pants, this could happen because i work my ass off. host: what work do you do? caller: i need to get a car before you go shopping or go anywhere, so it it is my first time calling so i am nervous. host: what kind of work are you in? caller: mechanical. host: how has that been during covid? were you able to keep going in? caller: and nightmare -- a

nightmare. it has been a nightmare in the industry. host: repair or engineering? caller: of a sort. we design mechanical hvac and air quality -- host: is that a business that a lot more people are interested in? caller: our whole industry, when you go into a house and clean someone's refrigerator coil, you better clean it good. getting back to what i was saying -- host: that's matt in pennsylvania this morning. a couple minutes left here. i want to note on this issue of vaccination efforts, not just in the u.s. but around the globe, the events on monday that c-span is covering at the wilson center.

at 11:00 a.m. eastern, it is former british prime minister tony blair discussing the global covid vaccination efforts. you can watch live beginning at 11:00 a.m. eastern monday on c-span, c-span.org and listen on the c-span radio app. one more call. lisa in chantilly, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. i have four children. they are adults, but i am thinking mostly of my 22-year-old daughter who has down syndrome. i was anxious for her to get the vaccine as soon as she was able to get it. i made sure she got it. i hear a lot of parents talking about how there is so much fear out there and that they are going to wait to get their children vaccinated or that it is not that bad for children, but i hear that a lot from other people, saying this disease is not that bad and that's only

part -- whether or not i have a case of covid and it is my -- i hope everybody has asymptomatic cases, but the problem with this disease is you can buy the mere act of breathing on someone else, who -- you can spread it to somebody who you might be issuing a death sentence to them, it is so contagious, and i hear people talking about people are so afraid and this disease isn't that bad, but there are people who don't want to give vaccinated and they are the ones saying, well, you know, it might affect your dna or your fertility or will gates is trying to plant a microchip in you. that is where the fear is coming are afraid of science. when you listen to or read about johns hopkins reviewing their

vaccines at mayo clinic in cleveland clinic, premier scientific institutions in the world, i feel pretty comfortable that my children and i are going to escape a horrible disease that affects every organ in the body and not pass it on to somebody who might be very ill from it or even worse, die, so i think it is a great thing. like that story were there is a flood and a guy was on top of the roof and he said i am waiting for god to save me. at the end he died. and he said, you didn't save me. god said, i sent all those lifeboats and you didn't take it. [laughter] anyway, we are all vaccinated and excited to get back to normal life. host: thanks for the call. we will end this conversation there. as we moved our next conversation, a w.t.o.

we want to show -- a tweet from joel berg, saying, "having been a c-span watcher since my teens, i am very much looking forward to this conversation." a reply from our twitter community, steve saying "if you love c-span, you are a political animal, a geek to be specific. the, too. good luck. i will be tuning in." he will be generalist stuck about covid-19's impact on food security in this country. later, e&e news reporter michael soraghan will talk about the colonial pipe and gus cyberattack -- colonial pipeline cyberattack and its impact on gas prices. stick around. >> american history tv on c-span3, exploring the people and events that tell the

american story every weekend. today at 8:30 a.m. eastern, biographer john meacham on the life and legacy of civil rights leader john lewis. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on lectures in history, jessica taylor on trade between native americans and virginia colonists. sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on american artifacts, a tour of the grounds of the richard nixon presidential library. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, three programs on thomas jefferson, on the president's view on education, an interpretation conversation between jefferson and abigail adams, and a tour of his gardens at monticello. exploring the american story. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span three. ♪

>> "washington journal" continues. host: the conversation on food insecurity during the pandemic with joel berg, ceo of hunger free america. remind viewers what hunger free america does and what -- how you go about to doing . guest: we are in nonprofit movements trying to create the programs necessary to actually and hunger in america by

ensuring all americans have access to affordable nutritious food. we do direct service such as running the national hunger hotline on behalf of the usda. we have a large sort of a domestic peace corps, we use volunteers to fight hunger, and we help people access s.n.a.p. which used to be called from stamps, and w.i.c. on our advocacy side, we do research, we write innovative policy papers, and work with americans to try to get our elected officials to implement the policies to create wages that make a living more affordable and ensure an adequate safety net, so it can reduce and end hunger in america . host: during this hour will have a special phone line for those experiencing food insecurity. defined the term food insecure.

guest: food insecurity is a horribly long-ish term that i couldn't explain for decades to my late mother. basically what it means in the united states is not having enough food, rationing food, parents going without food to feed their children. people not being it would afford the nutritious food that they want, people skipping meals. it is generally not people going weeks or months at a time with no food, the way you might see starvation in north korea or parts of south asia or parts of central america. it really represents hunger in the american context of food shortages, of food getting less health -- of people getting less healthy food. even though it is less severe than it might be in the developing world, it still has devastating impacts, because food insecure children can't learn. to be in school you must be

fueled. to be well-read you must be well-fed. food insecure workers can focus on their work. food insecure seniors can't stay independent. the level of hunger in america, still has very devastating impacts, including costing our economy over $167 billion per year. host: 202-748-8002, if you have experienced food insecurity during the pandemic. otherwise the phone lines are split up originally, 202-748-8000 if you are in the eastern and central time zones, 202-748-8001 if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones. give us a view of what food insecurity looks like in america in january to march of 2020 and what it looks like now and during the height of the pandemic. guest: it is vital for your viewers to understand that we were facing a hunger and food insecurity epidemic before the pandemic. in 2019, when the economy was

theoretically in great shape, tens of millions of americans couldn't afford enough food primarily because they just did not earn enough to meet all their basic expenses. even in 2019, more than 10 million american children who lived in homes cannot afford enough food. i know or start isn't a word in the english language, but i am lobbying to make it one, because in the pandemic, things went from worse to worser. people became hungrier and poor. people on the edge of poverty and hunger entered poverty and hunger. you had millions of americans losing jobs. you had about 29 million kids each day that relied on school meals, mostly not getting them anymore, thousands of centers serving food to older americans closing. so you saw a huge spike. by december of 2020, we had a new methodology from the federal

government that measured how much food people had on the weekly level and that spiked to 30 million americans in one week, didn't have enough food. as we will talk about, that was reduced substantially over the last few months because of policies that put people back to work and policies that put cash in their pocket and food in their grocery carts, but still in april about 17 million americans still can't afford enough food and they are still missing meals. so we are still in the midst of a very serious hunger crisis, even though the federal policies have begun to work. host: how much money have we thrown at the hunger crisis, and what, in retrospect, has worked the best? guest: collectively we have thrown billions of dollars at the poverty hunger unemployment crisis. the most effective thing has been giving people direct purchasing power either to cash

-- either through cash or benefits like snap them a -- s.n.a.p., or the pandemic ebt program which was really pushed by speaker pelosi and embraced by now majority leader schumer and the biden administration. that gives people with kids in private schools cards where they get money added to the cards to buy food. it is important to both think that charities and the food banks and the soup kitchens and the soup pantries and the mutual aid societies but also understand they are very, very minimal, often a slow part of the solution. even before the pandemic, federal safety net programs provided 15 times the dollar amount of food provided by every charity in america. i run a charity.

we need private and public support and we need donations and help, but i think it is important for charities to understand that in a modern, civilized society, government needs to take the lead in solving major national problems. you have seen that over the last few when it is the government response in putting money into people's wallets and food into their grocery carts, not just charities, that dramatically reduced hunger in america. host: the phone lines again, eastern and central time zones 202-748-8000. ,202-748-8001 if you are in the mountain and pacific time zones, and if you are experiencing food insecurity 202-748-8002. ,the most effective thing was giving money to people so they can go and buy food. one of the programs we heard about the most during the height of the pandemic last summer was giving people food directly --

the farmers to families food box program, some $4 billion spent by the trump administration on that program. why was scarred not effective, as you say -- why was that not effective, as you say, than giving people money was? guest: the federal government worked with processors to get more food to hungry people. and we should still use programs like that to fill in the gaps. unfortunately, and i say this as someone running a nonpartisan organization, and i have visited a number of food distribution site under the food box program. it was politicized in a very unconscionable way, putting letters from the president around the time of his reelection, basically bragging that "i got you this help, therefore, you should support me." in fact secretary of agriculture purdue, secretary of agriculture

at the time, was found to have violated the hatch act by engaging in politics around food distribution. there was cronyism. there was corruption. often the food boxes were not nutritionally sound. they did not vary by family size. there is a much better way to help farmers get a on this -- get paid from the federal government to feed americans than the way the program was implemented. you and i and the rest of your viewers prefer purchasing food that we believe our family needs best. when the government or even charities pick out the food, they have no idea whether people have diabetes or hypertension or kosher or halal. or what their choices are. and ultimately, when you are using s.n.a.p. or ebt to go to the store, you are also aiding the economy. every dollar spent on the s.n.a.p. program generates $1.70

and economic growth in america. it is better all around whenever possible, to give people those dollars so they can shop and buy for themselves. host: this is a question we always get when talking about the s.n.a.p. program. are there any restrictions about what people buy with the funding? can you go to the liquor store and buy liquor? can you buy unhealthy foods from a grocery store or from a convenience store? guest: you cannot buy liquor or any sort of alcohol. you cannot buy cigarettes with s.n.a.p. benefits or pandemic ebt benefits. you can't even buy diapers or feminine hygiene products or toothpaste with s.n.a.p. food stamps or pandemic ebt. one problem is you can't even buy --. if there are two rotisserie

chickens next to each other, one heart and one cold, you can buy the cold on and not the hot one, even though it would cost you more money to take home the chicken and warm it. now you can buy all sorts of other foods, from bananas, which are the most often-purchased on food with s.n.a.p., and chicken and fruits and vegetables. you can use s.n.a.p. and pandemic ebt and many farmers markets around the country. occasionally you can buy a birthday cake for your kid with s.n.a.p. occasionally you can buy a soda. i basically agree with the secretary of agriculture vilsack, holistically sent a message that we need to help people understand there are often foods and sometimes foods, in the same way of the near a of visionary drinks soda -- the same way of billionaire will drink a soda, the same way a low income person

should be allowed to drink a soda. banning certain items is not the way to go. we don't need government to micromanage people's lives. instead we need to teach all americans balanced lifestyles, balanced diets, so they can have an occasional enjoyable candy bar or soda, but the bulk of their diets, like all americans, should be more fresh produce, more whole grains. host: calling from des moines, your own with joel berg. caller: good morning, john, is it? there is other things, too. the salvation army here in des moines, there is urban dreams, there is all caps off facilities besides s.n.a.p. guest: there are many great facilities around the country, anywhere between 40,000 to 50,000 charities across america that serve people.

and a number of ways that you can use s.n.a.p. towards that. before the reagan era of the 1980's, there were only a few hundred feeding charities in america. in the last few decades we have gone from a few hundred, maybe a few thousand utmost, to possibly 60,000 agencies. the truth is hunger has gone up. i liken this to fighting fires. we used to fight fires by bucket regains. they made us feel great and engaged volunteers, but city after city burned to a crisp. we understood in modern society couldn't fight fires just with volunteers. like race we need to understand food drives our ancestry the bucket the grade -- are essentially the bucket brigades of today. they cannot a long-term fixed a problem that harms tens of millions of americans. i am not saying the people running these charities are incredibly heroic -- are not

incredibly heroic and doing vital work. sometimes they are feeding people whose incomes are slightly above the eligibility roll for these programs, so they perform an absolutely vital role. but the charities should be filling in the gaps, not being seen as the top response to the problem. host: on the issue of definitions, what is the difference between a food bank, a soup kitchen and a food pantry? guest: great question. a lot of those people use those terms interchangeably and they are not interchangeable. food banks generally mean regional distribution centers for nonprofit food, sort of a wholesale warehouse for food. occasionally in the pandemic, food banks have directly disturbed and food to low income people -- distributed food to low income people. they have had a distributions in parking lots. but in general, in total, food

banks generally don't distribute food themselves directly to hungry people, they generally distribute them through food pantries, sometimes called food cupboards or food shelves, generally they give out boxed and canned food. not always nonperishable food, but mostly nonperishable food, to low income people most of whom are families, most of whom are working, most of whom have no mental illness or substance abuse problems. they are just poor. kitchens -- then there are soup kitchens. they are sort of a misnomer, too . they serve more hot meals. plenty of families and working people who go to soup kitchens as well. they are more likely to serve people who need the

traditional stereotype of the hungry. soup kitchens are more likely to serve men, more likely to serve the homeless, serve people who are mentally ill and or substance abusing, but the vast majority of people getting eight through these charity programs are working people, and there's nothing wrong with them, except they are paid to this little to pay the price of rent, childcare, health care, prescription drugs transportation,, and, yes, food. host: from huntington, pennsylvania you are on with joel berg. caller: i would like him to tell us number one,. number two. people can get cigarettes and booze with ebt. all they do is take the cash advance, use their card, tell the clerk in the rite aid, whatever give me cash,, and then buy the cigarettes. guest: great question. first, i earn $138,000 per year. i lived in new york city, a

pretty high income place. i earn about three times what my lowest paid employee earns. earn ready percent less -- i earn 30% less than what i earned when i left the federal government 20 years ago. our earn less than many people in the nonprofit sector but, i am also reminded that i have employees who are paid less. my view is able in the nonprofit sector deserve to have solid, middle-class lifestyles, not become reach doing this work -- not become rich doing this work. in terms of ebt, sir, i think you are confusing s.n.a.p. food benefits, which are delivered on ebt cards, which on the rare occasion also accept cash benefits, what used to be called welfare. less than 10% of the people in poverty in america get cash welfare. the vast majority of people with

ebt cards are getting them only for health care and food benefits. not only can't use you get cash with it, the systems will not allow you to get cash with it. it is a real misconception to think people can use s.n.a.p. use food stamps for alcohol or cigarettes. not only is it illegal, you physically can't do it. host: what did you do when you work in the federal government? guest: i worked for the secretary of agriculture in the clinton administration, in what was called a political appointee. i was appointed by president clinton. i started as acting director of public affairs and press secretary for the secretary of agriculture. i became head of public liaison when i launched the usda portion of the americorps service program. i became the coordinator of food recovery, in charge of reducing food waste in america. at the end of my eight years, i became coordinator of trying to

build partnerships between nonprofit groups and the federal government, to have a comprehensive plan to reduce hunger in america. ironically, because we despise public service so much in the government, people thought -- if they didn't know what a political appointee was, they thought it was a horrible bureaucrat. if they did know what i political appointee was, they thought it was a correct hack, many people. now because i work for a nonprofit, and hunger is in our name, anyone who knows me will hopefully tell you i was pretty public-spirited when i worked for the federal government, and i am not a saint now. but it shows you that we have an automatic deference to the nonprofit sector, and a knee-jerk reaction against government public service, while a lot of the work i have done in the last 20 years in the nonprofit sector, is very similar to the work i did in the federal government. host: it will not surprise you that we have some individual

agency fans who watch c-span. wild and wonderful tweeting saying "before the segment ends, let's not failed to remind viewers that the s.n.a.p. program is a department of agriculture program." guest: indeed it is. the first foodstamp program was started in the 1930's by franklin roosevelt. for years i thought the first foot stamp recipient was a woman named mabel, from upstate new york. a friend of mine, even a more intrepid researcher found out that she was not the first foodstamp recipient, it was actually a person who refused to talk to the reporter because stigma in this program goes back to the very beginning. it started as a discount coupon program. you had to have some money to buy the benefits. so that forest of the poor -- the poorest of the poor benefit from it. bob dole, very conservative

republican senator from kansas, teamed up with george mcgovern, very liberal senator from south dakota, to do it if -- to create the modern s.n.a.p. program by eliminating the purchase requirement to make it a more widespread program. that dramatically reduced hunger in america before we became more partisan on this issue starting in the reagan-era. host: what ever happened to mabel? guest: i do not know. that will be by next follow-up question. i do know that the food stamps program in the great depression and the civilian conservation corps, which helped millions of american men reduce hunger and work, dramatically however by the end of world war ii after roosevelt died, our young men were so malnourished -- i men because it was a military issue -- generals came to president truman and said, our boys are too malnourished to fight. and there were people in

congress, like senator russell of georgia, who teamed up with president truman to create the national school lunch program to further reduce hunger in america, in part, to improve our military readiness. there is a study that shows school meals are the healthiest meals kids in america eat any given day. so the safety net really works. host: ron calling out of pennsylvania. good morning. you're on with joel berg. caller: i just want to hit on the thing that you said, you mentioned that you can buy cigarettes and stuff like that with s.n.a.p. or these benefit cards or food. you know, there are people that use those cards and benefits to get that product and then they take that product that they can get with the card and they go and sell it for money to buy their cigarettes and alcohol or drugs. i just wanted to mention that. guest: according to the usda independent office of inspector

general, even under previous republican president, george w. bush, fraud in the s.n.a.p. program is about 1%. fraud on wall street, if it was only 1%, we would say they are the most front-free efforts in that regard in modern american history. the vast majority people who receive s.n.a.p. are working people who receive them only a few months at a time, and a bite of food their families need. host: martin from new jersey, good morning. caller: good morning. what about seniors who are homebound, who don't have a supermarket that they could go to that has fresh vegetables and wholesome food, where a program like ebt that offers purchasing online from

supermarkets and having it delivered, it is very limited. i can't find that online. is there any program like that? will they expand that for people who are homebound, seniors homebound that don't have markets in their area? to order online and have it delivered? do you know if the program will be expanded? guest: great question. first we want to make it easier for people to apply for benefits online, so they don't have to travel all the way to their country if they are in a suburban or rural area. we strongly support the bill authored by senator gillibrand , and congressman mcgovern and others to make it easier for people to apply for a wide variety of benefits. congress, under senator schumer and speaker pelosi and the biden

administration, have made great progress in and the blinking put to apply -- to use their benefits online for home delivery. both s.n.a.p. benefits and eventually they are working on w.i.c. benefits which go to pregnant women and children under five. in addition, the congressional majorities and the biden administration have expanded home delivered meals, such as the meals on wheels program that primarily go to older americans. we need to expand those things. as much as we like what the federal government is doing, we are pushing them to do more on home delivery of s.n.a.p., because in most parts of the u.s., you can't still easily use your s.n.a.p. online to get home delivered meals, and as you said, that is very important for some seniors, people with disabilities, very important for people with compromised immune systems. we think the federal government has done a good job. we will keep pushing them to do even better. host: to alexandria, virginia,

this is carolyn. good morning. caller: i have to say that i truly agree with the man who is speaking about the food stamps and the programs. they are serving very well. but when you give boxes of food out to people, you don't know their diet. it is best for you to give them food stamp cards or credit cards so they can go out and buy what they need to buy. because you don't know what they can't eat -- what they can eat and what they cannot eat. i tell them all the time, you might not read this right -- you may not eat this rice, you may eat a different kind of rice, so why give someone something they can't eat? it is best to give them the money so they can buy what they do eat.

i agree with him 100% on that. host: can ask you a question, you said "i tell them all the time." who are you talking about when you say them? caller: our churches give out boxes every month and i tell them they should give them -- we give them $30 worth of food in a box. why give them food in a box? give them $30 and that them by different they want, because they don't eat what you give them. so you are wasting money. host: let me get joel berg to comment on that. guest: i agree entirely. thank you for your work with your church. in the pandemic, i had the opportunity to read the entire king james bible from genesis to revelations. in the old and new testament,'s central theme is fighting hunger and inequality.

every single religious and secular tradition in the planet. so i know that people with strong ethical traditions are fighting hunger are you thank you and thank you everyone in america doing this work. we just need to finish the job by ending hunger. host: in the last minute or so, steven with the question from twitter simply saying, "can you comment on the psychological effects of hunger in america?" guest: hunger is devastating psychologically. we have not even discussed that being malnourished compromises your immune system and makes you more likely to catch covid, and were likely to die from covid. every single day you have to worry about how you are going to feed your children immobilizes you. there is a large body of evidence that being food insecure is a significant negative contributor to mental health. people who are food insecure are more likely to suffer from clinical depression, beyond the physical ravage met that hunger

brings in your body, and food insecurity brings your body, the mental anguish is enormous and calculable. host: joel berg is ceo of hunger free america. it is hungerfreeamerica.org. you can also follow them on twitter. jho low, we appreciate your time. next time i expect to hear what ever happened to mabel mcfiggan? guest: i will look it up. host: thank you so much. guest: thank you. host: stick around. we will be joined by e&e news reporter mike soraghan to discuss the latest on the colonial pipeline cyberattack, and the biden administration's response. later, christine science monitor senior staff writer simon montlake, discusses his recent piece, "why cities are experimenting with giving people cash payments." stick around. we will be right back. ♪

>> book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern, nine nasty words. english in the gutter, then, now and forever. a columbia university professor looks at how profanity has evolved over time. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on after words, in her latest book "persist," massachusetts democratic senator elizabeth warren talks about persistence and her life as a professor, a u.s. senator, and as a democratic presidential candidate. she is introduced by white house reporter andy linsky. sunday, the development of position bombing during world war ii is the subject of malcolm gladwell's new book "the bomber mafia: a dream, a temptation, and the longest night of the

second world war." watch book tv this weekend on c-span two. ♪ >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store with a collection of c-span products. every purchase helps support our nonprofit operations. get a copy of the directory with content information of members of congress, and the embedded administration cabinet. browse our new products that c-spanshop.org . >> washington journal continues. host: mics are hand joins us -- mike soraghan joins us. covers energy views. the colonial pipeline was restarted. how close are we today to get them back to normal when it comes to gasoline distribution

and gasoline supply in the eastern and southern united states? guest: when officials were talking about that on thursday command they were basically saying that sort of into the weekend, things would be getting back to normal. they are still saying some pretty high numbers. i checked guest buddy before -- gas buddy before i came on. there are did was from last night and we still have the most half the stations in georgia, virginia, 65% of north carolina and 81% in washington, d.c.. where i live, it has not been that much of a bother to get gas. but some of these numbers were pretty high last night. host: a lot of people asking since this happened why the shutdown of one pipeline caused so much chaos in this part of the country. explain what the colonial pipeline is, how it fits into this massive system in the

united states. guest: the colonial pipeline is one of those things you only think about when something goes wrong. it is about -- it has 5500 miles of pipe command runs from houston almost to new york through atlanta in d.c., delivers 100 million gallons of fuel every day, almost half the fuel supply of the east coast. although really, there was 20 of gas in the country and plenty of gas even in the southeast and the east coast all week. the problem was when the news got out, there was a run on the gas stations. they were selling weeks and months of fuel in hours. so a lot of them were drained dry. host: who owns colonial? guest: it is owned by several companies. shall is probably the best-known, koch industries, and several pension funds and

private equity companies. host: when we talk by planes, a lot of people think keystone xl pipeline. what is the difference between colonial and keystone? guest: keystone xl, would and keystone livers crude oil to refineries, for export. colonial his wife goes into after it gets refined. it gets sent out the east coast. a lot of refineries, particularly in the northeast, have been shutting down, at that makes the northeast more dependent on fuel. there is not a lot of refineries in, say, north carolina or georgia, if any. that is why we are so dependent on it. host: the shutdown was a result of a cyberattack. whose job is it to physically and digitally secure pipelines in this country? is it the ownership, the companies he went through? is it the federal government, or a combination of the two? guest: it is the private companies that own it.

basic federal policy is that we have voluntary rules. voluntary guidelines. but it is basically left in the hands of pipeline owners. host: the latest story from mike soraghan at the website, "biden pitches infrastructure deal in response to the pipeline hack." what is the biden administration proposing? what are the lessons learned? what is going to change? guest: there is a lot of discussion from biden officials of out those guidelines, do they need to be mandatory instead of just voluntary? you know, there is a lot of debate about the security aspect of the federal government. historically there hasn't been many people doing that. they certainly would not have enough people right now to enforce mandatory standards. but a lot of people are saying, a, our electric system has

pretty tight standards. hopefully it would not happen, and if it did, there would be tough penalties. but it is voluntary on the pipe inside, and people think that isn't working. host: mike soraghan on e&e news is with us. let us know your questions on the colonial pipeline cyberattack, what it is meant -- what it has meant for you in your part of the country. again, 202-748-8000 if you are in the eastern and central united states 202-748-8001 if , you are in the mountain and pacific regions. we will start in the keystone state, this is pat. caller: hi. first of all, it is very frightening what you said about voluntary adherence to the standards but the fact that, private companies own such a big part of our economy is ridiculous. and the media played a terrible

part in hyping this and causing a run. where i live -- problem. host: mike soraghan. guest: there is a lot of people questioning whether or not it should be voluntary. if you started getting into that debate, you wonder if you want the federal government running a 5500-mile pipeline. i noticed that this happened on friday. i was mentioning to people, did you hear about the pipeline, and nobody seems to know about it in my circle. everything kind of started on tuesday. i am still not sure why we waited until tuesday, but i did hear reporting that morning around kids in school, etc., and then it did start happening. so, i guess there is some

discussion of how to report these things. but again, we did have four days first. host: jodey with her thoughts on twitter, "it has to alert americans to the fact that three days of the oil flow, can bring america to its knees. we are like a heroin addict who went cold turkey and all the addicts were doing whatever they needed to survive, to find heroine wherever they can." our next caller out of georgia. good morning. caller: thanks for taking my call. with the keystone pipeline, there have been a lot of people saying, let's do it, and everything. let me give you my understanding of what i have been reading. canada owns it and they couldn't get it because of their mountainous terrain, so they need to go through the united states and then refine it in texas. but all the contracts sound like they are going to be exported,

all that oil is going to go to other countries. so my first question is, if we do have an oil shortage and they have contracts that they can't get out of, that oil would never be able to be used, refined and used for us. is that correct? also, why is it that we are getting basically used. for a canadian company to make profits, and the refinery in texas to make profits, why are we -- we are basically saying, hey, let's go through your property, two different entities to make a bunch of money. and my correct -- am i correct? host: thank you. guest: most of the oil and gas systems in the united states are privately owned, with some government help here and government regulation.

that pipeline will be owned by transcanada, they go by tc. they send it to the gulf coast because that is where the refiners are. the contract would be private. a few years ago, under obama, we re-legalized or allowed crude exportss. some would be exported and some would not. this was not really an oil crisis, it was a gasoline supply crunch. we have plenty of oil, it was just about getting it where it needed to go. host: does a pipeline company pay states for putting pipelines through state property? or how does that work in terms of paying for the land usage? guest: generally they buy rights. they pay the owner royalties.

if they go through state land, it goes to the state. if it goes through private land, it goes to their private landowner. some people see that as free money. some people see that as a violation of their land rights. host: what is that per my of pipeline? is there an average of what somebody gets paid for that easement? guest: it depends on the value of the land. is it going to a densely populated area, or, a farm, or land that is in particularly useful? it depends on the circumstance. host: winston-salem, north carolina, william, your next. caller: good morning. i got a question. can i -- i actually drive past that i blame area in greensburg. i had to take someone home to georgia and there was no gas on the interstate. i was smart enough to get two gas cans to make it.

there was all these young people doing the --. isn't there a law that says you can't do certain things on the computer, that you will be held liable? the people that did this, what is the real deal there? whoever did it should be responsible to pay the money back, i believe. but the gas shortage isn't that bad right now, but still, you can't really get south of north carolina. those destinations are out. host: thanks. mike soraghan, dig into the cyberattack a little bit more for us. guest: i drive by those tax on 40 too.

what we've got here is a cyberattack. i don't know that is a bunch of young people or 1-800 fungi sitting on his couch, by the fbi's said it was a criminal group called darkside, probably in russia. they demanded $5 million. according to bloomberg this week, colonial paid it. doesn't seem to necessarily have done a lot of good. because they still did whatever they were going to do, whenever they pay the $5 million. cybersecurity is a growing debate, and how to approach it in society. this is a fairly new thing. like i said, some people want mandatory standards, some people say voluntary standards work well. the question here is, this is a bit of a dry run. what if a gas pipeline causes a

problem at what we saw in texas? you cut off gas supplies to the northeast in the middle of a blizzard, or to the southwest in the middle of a heat wave. a similar thing happened five different cause in texas and 150 people died. host: could or should colonial have been -- here? guest: this is a company that makes -- court filings show they made 30% net last year. there was an ap report about an audit saying that an eighth grader could hacked into this, if he had been hired to do some audit for the company and found some alarming state of affairs. that does raise the question as to, our voluntary standards working? -- are voluntary standards

working. host: have there been other major pipeline hacks in the past? guest: there are hacks of companies going on all the time. some we hear about, like maybe when they tell us our credit card information has been stolen. from what i am hearing, people who know what they are talking about more than me, this was not a particularly sophisticated hack. going around, you try to hack this or that, and he landed a big one in colonial. host: about 10 minutes left with mike soraghan this morning with eee news. that iseenews,net. if you want to see what he has been covering you can follow him on twitter. from mississippi, good morning. you are next. caller: my question is, why don't all these companies that can be hacked and stuff, why

aren't they all built into a closed loop on the internet, that way they can't be hacked? that's it. problem solved. host: mike soraghan? guest: i don't really understand that either. that is not my area of expertise. the level of cybersecurity that these companies have, used the hearings and senators and members of congress asking some pretty printer questions about what a company that is so important to the economic life of the country has no cybersecurity. host: can you do something like nuclear silos, can you take a pipeline completely off the grid? guest: i don't know if you can take anything completely off the grid anymore, i haven't heard much discussion about. i don't know enough about how these things operate. one of the things is they have to connect with a lot of other companies to arrange these

supplies. a huge logistical situation. so i don't know that, how well you can completely shut it off, your internal controls. there is supposed to be a big difference between where a refinery schedules delivery and the safety system that says this much oil is going to this place. that is getting into a scenario i don't know. host: will head out west to idaho falls. vince, good morning. caller: good morning. hey, you are doing a great job. maybe this keels off to what you are talking about. i am a retired chemical engineer the kind of worked in this area little bit, and i think the media was not quite clear on how to address these cybersecurity issues. but there is an enterprise net

group that somebody runs a business on, and i believe that is what got hacked. [laughs] of course it is tied a little bit to their operational network. you have control valves, pressure gauges, they have a system collecting data, you have engineers in the field, diverting flows, making sure safety systems are in place, pressure. that, i believe, can get hacked. have one person saying -- i don't want to be the person -- but how can the government doesn't take over these critical infrastructures, your utilities and refineries. to me, that is the last thing you want to do, get the government involved in anything like that. these people like colonial have millions and millions of dollars

at stake, so they are going to make their systems as hard as they possibly can. so, there's a lot of scare about cybersecurity, but, trust me, they have a lot of good people working on that all the time. host: mike soraghan. guest: that is the question. there is going to be some great pointed questions about how well protected this company was. i mean, they netted $122 million last year. could they have put a bit more into cybersecurity. host: we know they put $5 million into a ransom. guest: right. and it didn't even do them much good. there are real questions about how well prepared they are. that does raise the question, what was known -- we have not about cybersecurity and

cyberattacks for a long time. were they being too lax. host: once these biplanes are back up and running, a question that often comes up with keystone, but for colonial as well, how many people does it take to maintain a pipeline? how many jobs are there once a pipeline is up and running? is it a couple of people in the control center, a couple of utility. along the way? guest: it is pretty much like that. in terms of permanent jobs, the real long-term jobs for blue-collar work in the drilling area. but, you got control room people, people that have to maintain it. there is a lot of things that you don think about in terms of maintaining a pipeline. you have to hire pilots to fly over this thing and look at it.

there has to be people of maintaining and doing things that you don't even think about. it is not just a pipeline. they have tanks. you are filling and emptying tanks. there is that balance. i don't think it is thought of as a huge employer. host: to northern louisiana. this is dewey. good morning. caller: could i ask you a question about the ransom? $5 million, does the fbi or cia know exactly where it is going? [laughter] guest: now we get into cryptocurrency, and we are getting way out of what i understand. [laughter] my understanding is there is some sort of cryptocurrency which is a favored method of payment. i guess it goes back to the tv shows of years ago.

this is the computer equivalent of on traced bills -- of on untraced bills. host: to baltimore, maryland. tom, did you feel the gas squeeze up in baltimore? caller: not really. psychologically, some people were apprehensive. they are always happy with buying more toilet paper than they need. i think the colonial pipeline situation, sometimes when a country wants to attack another country, they will test their defenses and resources. i was wondering if this was a probe to see how well our critical infrastructure is protected. also, too, since this colonial pipeline is such a military asset if we were at war, how come the united states government is not more involved in protecting these assets? is colonial lost money on this

thing, it could have been bordering on an act of war. can the government compensate them? thank you? guest: so far, what we are getting back from the fbi and officials explaining this is that it was a criminal gang. now, the criminal gang is based in russia, or at least russian-speaking. so that raises questions about, sometimes there is some fluidity between the government and private actors in russia. president biden said, he said he wanted to talk to vladimir putin about it. now, in terms of being a military asset, it does deliver to a lot of military bases. that is a real question about preparedness. in september 11, he would have thought we would have been

protected and we weren't. host: time for one or two more phone calls. out of mississippi, good morning. caller: good morning. my question is how much of a bookkeeping component did the hack have on the pipeline such as this. host: what do you mean, jeffrey? caller: well, we know that the pipeline is mechanical and digital. so if you don't know who is getting the fuel, you don't know who to charge and you don't of who is going to profit as far as equity firms, investment in the pipeline. guest: we do know that -- somebody i talked to about this trying to explain the problem, if i print expert, they will have -- a pipeline expert, they will have a big accounting problem. turning the pipe ran back on,

the problem is you don't know what is in your pipeline. he have gasoline, you have jet fuel. once you lose your system, you don't know what is in your pipeline. host: out of georgia, good morning, your next. caller: good morning. i would like to ask you, the attempts by foreign entities that want to conduct this type of robbery, espionage, blackmail against utility industries or private industries in the u.s. -- i work for an electric power utility in my career and we spend millions of dollars to protect our power plants from

this type of activity. i wonder as one caller just described, the company pays the rent some -- pays the ransom, but is the fbi and the department of justice and the biden administration concerned about retaliation or punishing these type of people? it seems like, to me, you mentioned some type of cryptocurrency and money being paid that can't be traced. i think we're smarter than that, a drone over a these people are located would take care of them. host: that was-- ken in georgia.

guest: electric utilities like you are talking about, they have rules they have to abide by. there are fines and repercussions of they do not. the pipelines spend hundreds of millions of dollars on cybersecurity. host: a reporter with end news -- e&e news. thank you so much for your time. coming up a little later this morning, it is our spotlight on magazine feature. this week we will talk with simon montlake to talk about why cities are expensing with giving people cash payments.

first time to hear from you upon a question this morning about local newspapers. simply asking whether you subscribe to your local paper. if you do, why? what do you look for? if you are in history or central (202) 748-8000, mountain or pacific (202) 748-8001. we will get your calls after the break. ♪ >> from washington, d.c. to new york city, former wall street journal neil king reflects on his 300 mile journey. >> doing it with all that has happened, all of us being shut in, walking around behind masks. that's a long covid winter. the events we saw play out january 6. the contested election.

there is a lot of bad blood. it made my desire to go out, the fifth day of spring and just walk through spring, see it unfold. look up close and slowly at the country i was going through, meeting people around -- along the way. >> neil king on his nearly pre-hundred mile journey. walking from washington, d.c. to new york city, sunday at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q and a. you can listen to q and a as a podcast where you get those. >> washington journal continues. host: time to hear from you on a question about local newspapers. do you subscribe? (202) 748-8000 if you do, and let us know why. if you live in eastern or central time zone. (202) 748-8001 if you live in

the mountain or pacific region. you might ask why we are talking about local newspapers in the segment? a story out of clinical yesterday. the world's most powerful local paper. to this day, president joe biden still gets the paper addition of delaware's news journal delivered to his home in wilmington. when a reporter was at briefings during the transition, they would often get a question. the white house declined to come out on how often the president reads the old paper but old habits die hard. as vice president he had a special section in his morning news clips or news journal stories for editorials. as a senator he always had a hard copy on his morning amtrak rug. it is a skeleton of his former self, the stuffing his way down, the paper version, the paper

circulation is a fraction of past ties. the beat reporter was also the main health reporter covering the pandemic. its current reporters, past reporters and archives offer insights into the present one cannot find elsewhere. that is from politico. the delaware news journal. then senator biden would often have a copy with him on amtrak rights to washington. howard martman always fast to go to the archives finding a picture of joe biden holding the news journal as a was walking back to the senate. this was in october of 2001. you can clearly see him holding the hard copy. it brings up this question of whether you subscribe to your local newspaper.

if so, why? if you do not, i thought about subscribing or dropped your subscription, we want to hear about local news. what are you looking for? (202) 748-8000 if you're in the eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 in the mountain or pacific. one note on the idea of vanishing local newspapers, this from a unc survey. a report on disappearing, vanishing newspapers. over the past 15 years, the united states has lost 2100 newspapers, leaving 1800 communities that had eight news outlet in 2004 without any -- a news outlet in 2004 without any. most of the losses are in economically struggling communities. the vindicator, a daily in the

ohio city of youngstown and the sentinel, a weekly in the maryland suburbs of austin, d.c. were notable. youngstown, ohio became the first study of any size in the country to lose its sole surviving daily newspaper in the closing of the sentinel, left one million residents of maryland affluent montgomery county without a local newspaper. half of newspaper readers and journalists have disappeared. many of the surviving papers have become ghost newspapers. mere shells of their former selves. greatly diminished newsrooms and readership. that's from a report from the unc school of journalism. a 2000 19 report on news deserts in the country. it brings up the topic of local newspapers. we want to hear from you. where do you subscribe, what are you looking for? this is glenn in knoxville, tennessee. guest: -- caller: in our local

paper, coverage of our city and county government. the newspaper as the watchdog for the citizens of knoxville and knox county and east tennessee for that matter. as to what our governments are doing or not. the best interest of the citizens. we have lost a significant portion of that coverage the last five years. there seems to be an attempt to coverage. there is coverage on major crime , in more depth or detail than people consider. the first function is our watchdog as to the government. let us know what is going on. host: what is the local paper there? the new sentinel? guest: yes, the knoxville news sentinel. host: do you subscribe guide --

do you subscribe? caller: since i was a child. i was a carrier for them. host: what do you think happened in the past five years? caller: advertising. not so much of the papers filed. they cannot afford the coverage we used to enjoy.

host: what usually gets delivered every morning, here as we sort through those. those national papers are the same papers that a lot of the members of congress are reading. at they are reading it, we want to read it. we also go online and look up a lot of these news outlets online. the places that we go to look for stories in the morning. liberal websites, conservative websites but we want to hear how you get your news and where you go in your local community. rua subscriber to your local paper?

-- are you a subscriber to your local paper? caller: i subtract to my local paper. host: what is the morning? caller: the tyler morning telegraph. host: what you like about it? -- do you like about it? caller: i am loyal to it. i was employed by it in the 70's as a reporter. i have always been loyal to it. that is not the real reason. i think the local newspaper is the main area of communication for the community. even though you can go online and get a lot of things, it was a weight you can write letters to the editor, express your opinion locally. the politics in our country begin on the level of people running for school board, city

council. they follow politics locally. we need to be watching what is going on at the local level, what is going on in the schools. and use the opportunity if there will be an event that you want to take part in. a peaceful protest or something that you need to know about that will happen so you can be a part of the government at the local level. those people often rise to state and federal office. we need to pay attention to what is going on. host: what was your beat? caller: federal court and a general assignment, could be anything. which was the wonderful thing about working for a newspaper, every day is something different.

feature stories, general assignment, federal court was my main beat. host: thank you for the call from tyler, texas. the featured story in the tyler morning telegraph, east texas cancer stroke survivor recovers, works for the company who saved my life. if you want to check out the tyler morning telegraph front page. tylerpaper.com is the website. we talked about the decline of local newspapers, something that has accelerated during the pandemic. hitting companies across the united states and sectors across the united states. newspapers and local newspapers hit as well. here is from the p research center -- pew research center, newspaper companies receiving paycheck protection loans from the pandemic response. nearly 2800 companies received

loans, with those companies employing 40,000 people. 5.2 million companies is the total number of companies that received the loans. deirdre is next out of montgomery village, maryland. caller: good morning. how are you? host: what is the paper there, i should know because i'm from there. what is it now? caller: we had the sentinel. where i am is the village news. that was free. we were subscribers to the sentinel and washington post. i concur with the last caller. our local newspapers are vital to building community and know what is going on. you can get usa today or washington post and get national and regional news. but to get local news you need

local outlets. local outlets because they do not have subscriber ship arguing under because of money and finances. as long as they have something to replace that, if they go online and create something that will connect the communities and give you the information that you need. even things like where to get gas, that is important to your community. the issue is, what happens if we have a national internet outage? nobody will know what is going on. that is a problem. host: what is the biggest story your remember in the village news or a particular study that your remember -- story that your remember? caller: how to honor the centurions in our community,

those approaching 100 years old. you have living history. it is vital. the other thing i recall, i am from washington, d.c. and i remember going through something similar to what we are expensing not which is the gas shortage in the 70's. we were coming out of a lot of historical stuff, we were being faced with inoculated a masked number of kids in schools -- mass number of kids in schools. i got a booster shot, we did buy great in schools, parents did not have to take kids to the doctors. they did it systematically. everybody could go back to school. you had two things happening concurrently at the same time and i work newspaper and the afro-american kept us together. i am a supporter of local news. host: thank you for the call

from montgomery village, maryland. talking about going online for your news. this story from mediapost.com, a publishing insider. looking at online subscribers. digital only subscriptions to local newspapers, specifically will overtake print subscriptions by 2027 out the latest aspirating habits shipped -- as reading habits shift. the digital dominance may happen as early as mid-2024 for local papers if online subscriptions exceed historic growth. 21% of current paid subscriptions are digital, a yearly increase of 32%. that is a report coming out last week -- are digital, a y

early increase of 32%. that is report coming out last week. host: what is your paper? caller: the daily record. i subscribed to them, i stopped subscribing because there is liberal attitudes. the daily record used to be a four section paper, now it is down to a one section. it is a couple of dollars per issue. the cost alone. that is not why i stopped. columbine, that is run during gannett news, during columbine date listed everybody who had a registered friendly firearm in your community and give those addresses. those people were victimized by people knowing they had guns.

i did not like. the only paper we get now is the new york post. that shows both sides. host: flanders, new jersey. this is tyrone in michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. i was a paperboy, i used to deliver the florence times in florence, alabama. notice the times daily. it is still going. during my school years, we had to read the paper. we had to take a government class to graduate. i would see older men walking around the neighborhoods with the cap bond, cigar and newspaper in the back pocket. you do not see that anymore even

in michigan. we have the free press and detroit news. my youngest son was a paperboy for the detroit news. i have always been interested in local newspapers. in michigan, yet the free press and detroit news. the detroit news is more conservative. i like to read both of them. even online to get a contrast of what is going on in the country and world. i will always support local newspapers. that is all i have. host: how much did you make as a paperboy? caller: about $15, $20 per week. my son made double what i was making. it was still a great experience. to have your son grow up to my up early in the morning.

especially on the weekend at 4:00 in the morning. to get the sunday paper out. it was a good experience. host: since you bring up the florence times daily. the two lead stories online are sports stories. not done yet, phil camby, and the clinching of the state tournament spots. those are the future stories. does anything beat a local paper for sports coverage? caller: no. you get a chance to see all of the local sports heroes, what they are doing and everything. that is good. some of them, they do not go to the major universities and college. they are able to have their notoriety and their hometown. host: thank you for the call. one more call as we talk about local papers. oak island north carolina.

good morning. caller: how are you? host: i am well. caller: i subscribe. it is a coastal community, i live on the coast. i love my paper. i am a realtor. it is a good source of information of what is going on with taxes. voting changes. host: how long have you been subscribing? caller: 20 years. host: is there a story from that paper that you remember, i feature story or something like that -- a feature story or something like that you would not have gotten from eight national paper? caller: there is a lot of stuff

on how we are going to pay for projects, the public beach, all of those issues, passing them all out in the paper. letters to the editors. things like that. host: steve in oak island, north carolina. here is early -- here are the stories today from his town. fire damages southport christian school and street repairs paving south ports are top concerns. the state port pilot. that will do it for those -- further discussion. a topic we were 20 or from tom to time -- time to time. time for our weekly segments, spotlight on magazines. up next we are joined by the christian science monitor senior staff writer, simon montlake to

discuss his recent piece why cities are giving people cash payments. ♪ >> today, on the communicators. ohio republican communicator bob gladys discusses issues facing congress on broadband access across america. >> making sure that we get broadband across the country. when you think about 5g and the accountability of big tech, those are the top issues. when you think about, especially on the broadband issue. across my district in northwest or central ohio, there are a lot of areas of my district that we do not have webcam. it is important we get it out there. it is so important after covid, because we saw everything from tele-medicine, tele-education, people working at home. it is essential that broadband be out there. this is an issue that is not a

democrat, republican or into better, it is all of our issues. -- independent, it is all of our issues. >> watch the committee caters today at 6:00 eastern on c-span. >> go to c-span.org/coronavirus for the federal response to the rotavirus pandemic. if you miss our live coverage it is easy to find the latest briefings and the biden administration response, using the interactive gallery of maps to follow cases. go to c-span.org/coronavirus. >> washington journal continues. host: we take some time to dive into a recent magazine piece. this week, our peace comes from simon montlake, of the christian science monitor. "why cities are experimenting with giving people cash payments, it believes in chelsea

thus begins it -- it begins in chelsea, massachusetts. guest: it is one of the cities experimenting with giving cash, providing cash to people. normally basis on income level. it was set up last summer as a response to the pandemic. there are other programs that proceeded the pandemic. this try to address the question of what about people who have lost their jobs, have little income. what the city was doing, as we start many places with food banks, giving away big boxes. the mayor thought, is this the best way? how do we help people? he came around to the idea that it would make more sense to give people money. and for them to use that money most of them go to the grocery

store in their own community and spend money that way. purchasing what they need, rather than try to second-guess what should be handed out. it was a response to a particular program tickets you to the bigger question of how you address income inequality. his cash the simplest, most direct and efficient way to do that? host: how much money are people getting? what does one have to do to qualify? caller: they set up -- guest: they set up the program in the fall of last year. it was income-based. you had to declare income for your family and be below poverty level. they have 3600 and voters who applied, for certain individuals it is $200 per month, for a family of three or more, it is $400. they had enough money, around

2000 people were given the money. some people who could not get the money, what they're doing is running a study where they talk to and survey both kinds of people, those receiving the money every month. this is between $200 and $400. there is interest and try to understand how the money helps. what people are doing with it. all of those questions. from the mayor's point of view, he is happy that this is providing support to people who are struggling. the program is limited to it will end later this month. we are seeing economic recovery, we are seeing the threat receding, people should

find other ways to make a living. people are mostly spending the money in their grocery stores, third community and purchasing food and what they need -- their community and purchasing food and what they need. the people receiving the money, it is helping them a lot. host: how much is this costing the city? how are they paying for it? is it cheaper than the other routes? providing food and other services as opposed to cash? guest: i cannot remember the exact amount. we are talking millions of dollars. of that, some of that is from federal and state covid really funds -- relief funds. others are coming from donations, there is a foundation giving $1 million, they are getting money from the united ways and date hospital group.

there is a mix of private and public money. how it compares to the expense. on some level it is more money because the food costs were not much. what the mayor pointed out, is you have to find a place to do it, you have to have staff, transportation. there is a lot for their sin to providing food. with this, they gave people a debit card. in terms of running the program, it is simple and cheap allowing the city in place to focus on other services. they were spending a lot of time every week setting up food banks , arranging food deliveries and where to store it and locks it. it was a lot of work. there were so food programs in the community, churches and other private groups handing out food.

the demand for the city to provide food has gone down. it is a good substitute. host: it gets to the larger question, about how best to help people. explain the term universal basic income. guest: this is the idea of giving people an amount of money, guaranteed amount of money, as the term universal suggests it would go to everyone. you probably remember during the democratic presidential campaign, andrew yang made a run for this. that was his selling point. he would like to see every american received $1000 per month. he called it the freedom dividend. this is the classic form of it. what we are seeing in chelsea and these other cities, it is happening in california, pennsylvania, new work, these are not -- newark, these are

not universal. this is going to people who needed. it is in the same ballpark, it is untraditional. no strings attached. the money is yours, people spend it on what you think you see fit to spend it on. a lot of welfare programs are not unconditional. there are specific. you get health insurance, housing filter, you get food stamps but only for certain foods. these are all strings attached. usually because the people who run these programs and the politicians who legislate for them want to see that happen. the big idea with basic income is that cash is more inefficient -- more efficient, people know what they need and will spend it on the right thing.

this idea that if you give people money they were wasted. there is no evidence of that. it has been a talking point for years but there is not a lot of evidence that is the case. host: our spotlight on magazine feature comes from the april 2 addition of the christian science monitor. here is how simon montlake lays out the political lines for this issue of ubi. on the left, basic income is framed as economic justice and a corrective to corporate exploitation. on the right there is some appetite for basic income, shrinking the size of government, disbursing cash does not take the bureaucracy that welfare does. in this are given people could not try to game the system to try to extend work attire payments as they do now. where are we in terms of this debate on capitol hill? guest: when they started doing

reporting for the story at the beginning of the year, there were proposals. last year, there were democratic candidates and legislators who made proposals for some kinds of e-cig income programs. it was not clear that any would get to the floor, let alone enacted. we had president biden's covid relief package, the $1.9 trillion package, it was an expansion of the child allowance, which is a tax credit. now it starts at $3000 per child. what it means, this time, not only do you get to claim that mere taxes, even if you are too poor to pay income tax, you still get that money. it is a fully refundable tax credit. they said the irs can pay that in installments.

you do not have to wait until next april to get that money. you could get it on a regular basis. this is means tested. if you are an individual making $75,000 more or your, you get some of that, below that you get the full amount. this is a form of basic income for families. that came through this relief package. it is only one year. president biden has talked about extending it. the debate has been going on for years. covid and the pandemic has shaken things up and allowed this experimentation to happen. to a lot of people that i spoke to who work on policy and inequality, this is a big change. a sea change in how legislators see their role in the role of cash transfers. host: basic income our topic in

this last segment. if you want to join the conversation. if you are in eastern or central united states (202) 748-8000, mountain or pacific (202) 748-8001. linda is up first out of georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think simon read my mind. i was going to bring up the fact about the new policies about giving child tax credits even during months you are not paying taxes. which is a salary based thing, each month for people coming in. getting this guaranteed income. he took the words out of my mouth. host: what you want to add -- do

you want to add? guest: it sounds like the caller is interested in this idea. i grew up in london, i am from written. this is a common program across europe. almost every country has a form of it, if you have a child, every week or month, you get the payments. my mother would go to the post office to pick up the money. we were not poor. every child received something, with the idea that it is in our interest to invest in children and make sure families have enough money to get by. this is a big change but a common program across europe to have a child allowance. not an annual tax credit but is a regular amount of money you get every week. for a lot of people, it is the insecurity of knowing how much money you are making month-to-month, coping with all of the bills and expenses of

life that could be a big stress on people. host: on this idea of providing americans with a regular amount of money. from the christian science monitor story, "a study found that giving $1000 per month to every adult in the united states would cost roughly $3 trillion per year or 75% of total federals ended, illuminating social security, food stamps and all other anti-poverty programs and tax benefits would only cover $1.2 trillion of that cost." how to fill in the gap? guest: that is the big question with this talk of ubi. the people promoting it, say as much, they say we are not there yet. how do we get there? you would have to rearrange spending and cut massively other

programs? maybe take away all forms of health insurance, what happens to social security? or raise taxes and to get more revenue. it is unimaginable to come up with that sort of money in the current situation. it is too large of an amount of money. if you talk to people in silicon valley, where this is a hot idea. look at the people funding some of these programs, city level experiments, you have the ceo of twitter, one of the cofounders of facebook. their point is even if we are not there yet, they believe the demand for labor in the future will be massively reduced by technology. robots, ai. it has not happened yet. in the future, there is not so much work to go around. what you need to do is make sure

that you tax and get money from the creators and redistribute that. that is one idea of where the money would come from. this all seems somewhat in the future. and speculative. it is a nonstarter at the moment. it is why people are coming to a guaranteed basic income. dealing with economic justice issues and people who are poor weather than you, me, bill gates and jeff bezos getting a check -- rather than you, me, bill gates and jeff bezos getting a check. host: that is the difference between guaranteed basic income and universal basic income? guest: yes. jeff bezos getting $1000 from the government per month is not going to notice. it does not make a big difference to him but it does to some of it like anna who was the profile of our store in chelsea. for her situation it is a huge amount.

it is a bizarre argument, why should we send money to bill gates or jeff bezos? most people would see a difference from this. it does make it expensive. which is my you want -- why you want to start with those who needed rather than try to mail a check to everyone. host: this is joe in west plains, missouri. you are on. caller: we come into this world naked and with nothing and we are supposed to make a success of our lives. this will make people lazier than they are. my brother and i are different. i served in an apprenticeship, made a lot of money. he did not want to get up with an alarm clock, answer to a boss and had nothing good that is what he deserves. you are giving people money for nothing. what are the poor are going to be tired of being poor and get

out there but i success of themselves? we need a massive tax revolt so you cannot do stuff like this. there are plenty of jobs. i see young people walking around in my town doing nothing. i do not feel sorry for them. i made a success because i wanted to make a success. i never asked for a handout. this is a terrible idea. host: simon montlake? guest: there is a deep cultural aversion to that. it goes against the american ethos that you are self reliant, that you make yourself, please self up by your bootstraps. i can understand that feeling good it is a strong feeling of value. in some ways this program cuts against it. many other programs do as well. there is a vast structure of government that channels money here and there. we always have to make

trade-offs between our volumes and other people's values and needs. it is a tough question. host: a question or comment by rebecca on twitter. "basic income is a subsidy to business, so they can continue to pay substandard wages." guest: one of the people in favor of this idea is a unionist, used to lead one of the largest unions in the country. he took it the other way, if workers know that they have a basic guaranteed income of $1000 per month and they decide that they are being treated badly, that gives them leverage to say, i will walk. if you do not deal with my complaint. he thinks it could be a multiplier effect for unions and workers to strike for better conditions. in the knowledge that they would not be destitute.

this is not been tested. -- has not been tested. this get support from elements of the left and right for different reasons. host: bob from fredericksburg, virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. this is interesting. i have been involved in community organizing efforts in fredericksburg on affordable housing. which fits into somewhat to guaranteed basic income. i would like to see a more aggressive return to welfare capitalism. since the 70's and 80's, we have seen businesses walking away from retirement packages, health care and increased wages for their employees. is there any pressure that government can bring against his and assist to pick up that mantle? i know that is a labor-employer

issue. that contributes to the current situation. giving money to people, maybe it works, it may does not, but there is no entrance -- assurance they will take -- spend money to take care of themselves. we need to downsize, not our standards of living our lifestyle. what can government do to facilitate affordable housing? not housing projects that set the conditions that someday making $60,000 per year can actually purchase a house. let's go back to the late 50's, early 60's, 1000 square-foot houses. i hope there are questions and statements that make sense. host: mr. montlake? guest: affordable housing is an important question. i would not be able to say how to solve that. i would take up the second point

about giving people money and whether they spend it wisely. there are studies of basic income in kenya, brazil, finland, canada, the evidence that people waste money and blow it on gambling or alcohol or cigarettes is not there. most will take the money and usage from on what they think they need. i am not convinced by that. in terms of how companies report workers -- reward workers and pensions. i do not think we are going to return to pensions. the most important thing is regulating how workers are paid and the guarantees that go with that. also what is going to increase wages going forward. you can legislate to make those happen or try to let the market decide.

that is separate from the basic income to be honest. it sounds like, your caller is engaged in programs in his community. host: gwendolyn, rochester, new york. caller: the gentleman that called a few months ago referred to his brother being somewhat of a lout and that he was ambitious. i was wondering if your guest has ever thought of covering the history of our country how it prevented african-americans or the american need growth from working -- negro from working. an earlier color, an african-american gentleman i believe, referred to is newspapers and experience being eight newspaper delivery boy and

his next generation, his son. i'm sure that the older gentleman, the father probably got those values from his father. there is a peculiar lack of dichotomy. i would like a magazine such as your representing to delve into expressing this historical information and educating so many people that are so poorly on informed -- uninformed of the inhumanity to african-americans for so many generations. about working values, employment, trustworthiness, rewarding people. host: want to give simon a chance to respond. as you do, maybe explain what

the christian science monitor is for folks who might not be familiar. guest: christian science monitor is a newspaper from over 100 years ago and try to take an international approach to things and a local approach to national coverage. over the last year or so, the conversation about race and justice has been strong in our newsroom and throughout the country. i would say in terms of educating people about injustice, with seen a lot of coverage over the last year. which is good. with the basic income debates, the mayor of stockton, california, two years ago launch this program for two years. he was a big advocate of this. he is black. he relates this to the writings of martin luther king, i relate to it in my story as well. one of the things that dr. king

wanted to do in the final years of his life was to move on from civil rights and voting rights to talk about economic rights. he favored a basic income as a way of addressing inequality. also to address the tensions in society. there was a racial justice element of these programs. in some cities it explicitly so that they are giving money to those communities. those things do come together for some people. jackson, mississippi, single black mothers with a cash program is working. in compton, they're making sure that people who are formerly incarcerated apart for the program who often do not get access to welfare. that is likely people of color affected -- largely people of

color affected. host: marcus, good morning you are on. caller: good morning. i grew up in a poor neighborhood. my mother is from puerto rico. i watched people everyday to make poor decisions with their money. i know you do not believe it. most of the guys if you give them $200, they will purchase cigarette, weed, booze. that is what they do. i did the same. i am fortunate, my parents came from puerto rico, they lived in the projects, they got out. they got a house in the suburbs and i was fortunate enough to tag along. i go to work every day, i am not asking for a handout. that is what everybody should do. there are a lot of roadblocks,

that does not give everybody an excuse to sit on the board. which is what happens print you want to give out more stuff when you should be taking that money and putting it towards social programs. you have to give people the support they need to get out of these situations. host: did your family use any of the social programs? caller: welfare, food stamps. i had to be on that myself and my w -- in my life, had to use it for my kids. we have to evolve from where we are at, it is not working. but we have to give more opportunity, not money. they need opportunity, education. a way out of the cycle. giving the money is not the solution. guest: it is interesting you raise that point. there is an argument amongst some people i spoke to on the left, who are against this

program. if you give people money, that will mean less money available for the programs. what happens if there is less money available for food stamps, welfare, housing vouchers? there is a limited amount of money out there. they're concerned that switching to cash transfers would take away from this pronouncement in some respects those programs are helping people that need it. it is not that some people will not waste the money. you could argue that the similar checks we all got last year, how many people spent that money wisely? i cannot say. there was no strings attached to those. some of those people could have spent that money on wasteful things, they could have gambled. i think you have to go with the evidence, in the case of

chelsea. because it is a debit card. the administrators can see exactly where you are spending that money. if you have gone to amazon and purchased whatever. they know what you are spending your money on. most people are purchasing things for their family. you cannot guarantee that people will not waste money. that is inherent to any system. how much attention you pay to that as to the overall effect, most people say you have to look at what happens to the majority. host: grand, washington, d.c. eur next -- grant, washington, d.c. you are next. caller: this entry will be marked by the loss of so many jobs, hard-working men and women used to build to get by having that initiative and drive. we are going to see truck drivers almost completely gone because of automation.

if you're going to have direct cash payments, we want to have the government over our shoulders telling us how to spend it in a society where we cannot get the jobs? or do we want the freedom to decide how we spend the money and who we do business with? that is my question. host: mr. montlake. guest: that gets my point, it is an interesting debate in silicon valley. these are the people developing the technologies that will take away jobs. they are concerned. you could say that is a selfish concern because they do not want -- they want to find a way thinking continue on this path and keep everyone somewhat happy. if we get in a situation where ai and automation takes a white

work and entire categories of jobs. there will have to be some sort of solution. we have seen this before. there has been massive up people but -- up people -- upheaval before, so far the doomsayers helping wrong people to find new jobs. we will have to see what will happen. the debate is going to increase as we see technology take over our lives. the pandemic has disrupted that. the process has been thrown out. it will be years before we know what is the pandemic effect and long-term trend. i think the universal idea is not going to go away. it will be a hot debate. andrew yang ran as a democratic candidate and his talking points, selling point, is not

running for the city mayor of new york. if he becomes mayor of new york, that platform will let him push that forward. host: joe in west virginia, good morning. i think we lost joe. that would be my fault. charlotte and maryland, go ahead -- in maryland, go ahead. caller: i want to say something simple. the guy who called in from d.c., who said that people want to take handouts and be bums. when he got his stimulus check, i wonder what he did? did he keep it or give it back to the government? did he do something with that in terms of giving it to charity or something for the homeless?

most people, like myself, when i got my check, i paid rent, my bills, i bought something to eat. when i was going to the store, i saw people buying food for their kids. i saw people giving back to the community. giving back to help neighborhood stores. that is all i have to say. what did he do? did he give his check back? i would like to know. thank you for letting me call. host: thank you for the call. guest: the stimulus checks basically was a form of basic income for money people. -- many people. i'm sure people were grateful to get that money. a lot of people use that money

for what they needed which was the basics of life. getting to the end of the month. on one level, it cuts against the american self-reliance eat those, on the other hand, the polling suggests the checks were popular. there was a massive body and for the need for government to do that. there are contradictory ideas there. good point about people who criticize handouts yet the same as checks arrived and people were glad to get them. host: the final minutes, we started the conversation in chelsea, massachusetts, let's ended there. you mentioned anna, who you focused on. a picture of her using the card in chelsea. what should we know about her story and where it goes? guest: she has a job. she is a custodian at a church.

she makes money there, she gets a disability check, because of previous work injuries. she is not as destitute as some. she is hopeful she will be able to go back to the work she was doing before. she was making jewelry, summit makeup and ut products. and to support community. there is only so much you can make that way -- it is a poor community. there's only so much money you can make that way. i think she is going to make it, hang in there. she has a young boy and third grade -- in third grade. for many families, that is the hope, that the lives of their children will be better than their lives. host: if you want to learn more about the issue of basic income, it was the april edition of the christian science monitor, why cities are experimenting with giving people cash payments.

we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you. host: that will do it for us this saturday morning, but we will be back here tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern. in the meantime, have a great weekend. ♪ [classical music plays] announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by television companies, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? it is way more. comcast is partnering with

community centers to create wi-fi so students from low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. announcer: comcast supports c-span as a public service, along with other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. ♪ announcer: today, ohio republican congressman bob latta's discusses issues facing congress on broadband access. >> we are still making sure we get broadband across the country. it's so important. and when you think about 5g, and also the accountability of big tech, i think that those are the top issues right off the bat. and when you think about, especially on the broadband issue, because i look across my district in ohio, i know that there are areas in my district where we do not have broadband.