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"washington journal," a look at the biden's economic agenda with stephen moore. then the bulwark founder and editor at large charlie sykes, on the future of the gop and the possibility of seeing a new national party. ♪ host: good morning. the senate back in session on monday, the house and they recess for the next three weeks, returning on june 14. there will be some pro forma sessions, including this morning. it is friday, may 21 yesterday the house of representatives voting by a narrow margin to pass a $1.9 billion spending bill, goal to increase security at the u.s. capitol in response to january 6. final vote yesterday, 213-212.

the legislation covers a range of priorities, including funding to enhance security. that is our starting point on this friday morning. how do you strike the balance between security and your access to capitol hill and members of congress? we are dividing phone lines regionally, (202) 748-8000 if you live in the eastern or central time zones. mountain or pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. you can also join us on social media, @cspanwj, or send a text message to (202) 748-8003. we are also on facebook. good friday morning. thanks for being with us. headlines from inside the "washington post co. republicans balk at the security bill, the price and use of funds. three opposed the legislation. no republican supporting this $1.9 billion security bill. both sides in just a moment,

beginning with congress and tim ryan. [video clip] >> we're trying to do this in a bipartisan way. it is what the american people want and deserve. and this bill here is largely based on the recommendations from general honore, who went to great lengths with four or five or six other generals to analyze what happened on january 6 and provide us with recommendations. the time is now. we have to act. we hear about the rank-and-file of police officers here that her 12 hour shifts, 16 hour shifts, do not have the equipment they need, securing of the capital, the trauma that happened here. and none of us are going to forget those events, but this is a narrowly tailored bill to provide long-overdue support -- here we are working ourselves

into the end of may. this is support for direct costs incurred by the attack on the capitol and restore the faith that members of congress can safely carry out our constitutional duties, demonstrate the -- strong commitment to continue to allow americans from across the country to be able to come to the capitol. we are not militarizing it. we're going to have a quick response force in case something happens, similar to if something happens, there is answer to the president or to washington, d.c., we starttol -- we start flying fighter jets overhead. this is the equivalent. we have to maintain the workforce until we can jire and -- hire and recruit more officers. the bill includes $3.3 million for the capitol police intelligence division, which was a huge part of the failures that

occurred on january 6, so we want to invest and make sure we have the intelligence capabilities that we need. host: ohio congressman, democrat tim ryan. we have cameras outside the u.s. capitol to show you what security is like, enhanced security, including some temporary and permanent fencing, which is also part of the debate and discussion. security of the capitol must remain the responsibility of federal civilian law enforcement, we cannot and should not militarizing security of the capitol complex. congress has held processing no hearings to examine the creation of a quick reaction force to weigh the costs and benefits and the questions about its nature and its responsibility, according to two republican representatives. here is republican congressman

lance gooden of texas. [video clip] >> i rise in opposition to this bill. this partisan proposal would allocate over $2 billion of taxpayer resources for a wall around the u.s. capitol and spend money on other things like members' personal security at home. i do not believe the american people support that. i do not believe they understand was his -- what is in the bill. i believe it would further separate the american people from their elected representatives here in washington. it is not the way we do business in the united states of america, not the way we should do business. there are so many issues that are more worthy of our attention. the crisis at our border is unlike anything we have ever seen. we are recording 20-your-the border crossings, but instead of completing the wall at our southern border which would protect innocent filtered from being exploited from traffickers and drug cartels, democrats would rather spend $2 billion on a wall around this building in d.c. this is the people's house,

madam speaker, and i cannot support this proposal. i yield back. host: just some of the debate on the house floor yesterday as makers narrowly passed that bill that would provide about $1.9 billion in security. a statement from congressman mike rogers of alabama and senator jim inhofe of oklahoma, we will show you that as we listen to robert in baltimore. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to tell the american people that donald trump is not going to go to jail. what he's is doing right now is -- [indiscernible] every penny he can get. from new york, georgia, or d.c., he jumping on his plane, and only one country in this world that will let him land that

plane. host: we will leave it there. we are focusing on security on capitol hill. the question, how do you strike the balance between security and access? capitol hill is very open, but security has been tightened significantly, especially in light of what happened on january 6. this is part of the debate from the house for yesterday. the lead sponsor of the bill, democrat from connecticut, here is what she had to say. [video clip] >> this bill is narrowly tailored to respond to january 6 and to protect the capitol going forward. it contains 1.9 billion dollars in emerging think funding to reimburse the national guard and the district of columbia for their response. provide the capitol police with overtime pay, retention bonuses, replacement, wellness, trauma support, and ensure the department of justice can parse secured every person who attacked law enforcement and

ransacked this building. it provides bonuses and help to custodial staff, and it renames the capitol police wellness center and the memory of officer howard li bin good. as recommended, the legislation protects the capital by providing resources, hardening windows and doors, construct security screenings, install new cameras, provide specialized training, riot control equipment, and body cameras to the capitol police. to augment them, the legislation establishes and funds a dedicated quick reaction force of national guard personnel, another recommendation of the capital security review. this legislation also bolsters security for members of congress with dedicated funding for enhanced security and threats assessments, coordinating member travel security, and upgrades to security in district offices. host: representative rosa

delauro. to give you a sense of what they security looks like, areas that have been closed or cordoned off, this is some of the temporary fencing that is not part of what you see here in washington, d.c., around capitol hill. security has been eased somewhat since january 6 and the inauguration but still very different from what many of you might have been used to if you have traveled to washington over the last couple of years. bill from red bank, new jersey. how do you strike the balance? good morning. caller: i am not sure about striking a balance, but i just wanted to say that in 1965, my brother and i visited washington -- i was 17, he was 15 -- we went to our congressman's office, got passes to go to the senate, rode on the senate subway, wandered all over the capitol building. we had a really great time and learned a lot about how our government works. and it certainly is a gigantic change since those days.

it is very sad. i also went to the capitol in the 1970's, again, able to wander all over the building. host: you could even park in front of the capitol back then. caller: correct, yes. it says a lot about the status of our country that we have gone from that, sort of, open admission to the citizens of the united states to see the representatives to the way it is now. i understand that some republican representatives are calling the capitol building now fort pelosi. and i think it is a sad day if a bill like the one they are considering will be passed. it says a lot about the status of our country now and how it has changed. and it has not changed for the better. host: bill, thanks for the call from new jersey. headline from political, democrats approving that bill, but as it advances to the

senate, republican leaders disputed some of its provisions. next call is from ithaca, new york. ray, good morning. caller: good morning. i am against this for a few reasons, one is the price tag. it is crazy. two, i believe the thing they set about building a wall around the capitol is correct. at the same time, democrats do not seem to care about what is going on at the border. the third is we will also be funding police and cutting back on things that will cost america. they seem to care more about their safety than anyone else's. i think the combination of everything is almost -- [inaudible] host: thank you for the call. harold from wilmington, carolina -- north carolina. caller: they feel threatened,

people attacking them? shoot them, like they do a lot of people, now killing people because they think they have a weapon. these people went in there with weapons, and lead tribes, bear spray, and only one girl got shot that was going through some kind of window. if they had opened fire on those people, they would have ran off and you never would have had another problem at the capitol. you come in there, and they eliminate you from this planet, they would not go back in there tomorrow. they do not need all this, just a little bullet in the head. host: this tweet, spending money is not the whole problem. incisors, says this year -- insiders -- investigation of january 6, the world clearly knows who they are. they will try insurrection again. send us a tweet at @cspanwj or text us at (202) 748-8003.

scrutiny in the commission fight, here are some of the details from "the hill" newspaper. for kevin mccarthy, january 6 is personal pure and he not only has his eyes set on the speakership after next year's midterms, he was also the only lawmaker to speak directly to president trump in the midst of the violent attack on the capital. those seemingly unrelated facts are, in fact, related in the context of the debate over the generous six commission. the dynamics make mccarthy unique among republicans and make him in a unique dilemma. he is likely meeting with loyalists in congress, but revealing the details could put mccarthy and the dog house with the former president, who with republican voters has kept him a kingmaker, even from self exile at his mar-a-lago resort.

the issue came up yesterday as leader mccarthy met with reporters outside the u.s. capitol. here is that exchange. [video clip] >> would you be willing to testify about your conversation with donald trump on january 6? >> sure, next question. >> [inaudible] >> no, not at all. i thought it would probably be higher. this pelosi commission that we have tried to work on for a long time -- remember, she has spent four months playing politics with this. in that time period, an officer got killed on good friday just across from here. i just felt we're going to have four things happening right now. you have two committees in the senate already doing their investigation. i believe in two weeks, they will have the report back, even though pelosi wasted all this time. you have the architect of the capitol given $10 million to

study what needs to be done here protected. then you have the justice department, which does a much better job than we could ever do, already arrested over 400 people. that is the kind of work we want to make sure is done, that it never happens again, that those who participated can be held accountable, and that we secure this capitol and do not play politics with it. i think a pelosi commission is a lot of politics. host: congressman kevin mccarthy, house republican leader. our question, the balance between security and access to capitol hill, part of the debate we saw yesterday, we have heard it live here on c-span, and the debate over that january 6 commission. this headline from the, we lose too much with a fence around the capitol. this from michael in portland, oregon, a text message that says make washington, d.c., the 51st state and the problem

will take care of itself. another call. good morning. caller: yes, i love c-span. you know, my mother and father to me to washington, d.c., when i was five or six, and i ran up the stairs. no matter what, after january 6, i don't want nothing to happen to these senators or congressmen. and so, you know, i believe they will make good decisions to make it secure and for us to visit, just like they made a good decision to make washington a state. you know, i did not think of that. they are not senators and congressmen for nothing. i would not want pence to get hung, even though i do not agree with him. so i thank you for allowing me to make this comment, and i love c-span. host: bob, thank you here at we

love the fact that you are tuning in. make sure to get the free c-span radio app, by the way. this is from eric in seattle, why would republicans back the investigation? trump and cited it, and numerous representatives and senators were complicit in support of the overthrow of the government, and it is ongoing. the question, security balance versus access to capitol hill, and the statement from senator pat leahy, democrat from vermont. we must make sure that we're making smart investments in our security based on lessons learned. it is important to me that the capitol, a potent symbol of our democracy, remains open and accessible to the public and does not feel militarized. a call from california, good morning. go ahead with your comments. caller: my comment is this, when the elected officials that took our votes to require them to get

where they are, have chose to walk away from any kind of, like, the neighborhood -- oh, you cannot police them, but they want protection for themselves at almost $2 billion, taking away from the american citizens. how does that weigh out? we pay the taxes, they do not. they are just trying to protect themselves because they failed america. they would not be having this problem if they had not just not listened to us. there is no town hall meetings. you cannot question them. black versus white. lori lightfoot. who in the world says i cannot recall from a reporter that is not ethnic? this is what is going on.

people are frustrated and mad. we have no voice anymore. and, no, i do not agree with this, the border is more important to me than their capitol. they created this mess, let them get out of it without our taxpayer dollars. how many more billions are we going to spend? how many more? no, i don't agree with this. it has to stop. they are not more important than us. host: thanks for adding your voice to the conversation. steven green has this tweet, the debate about capitol security, third-graders versus third grade teachers. yes, there was an invasion of the capitol, yes, trump and cited the attack, we cannot allow third-graders to run our country. this headline sums up our conversation this first-ever, from the associated press. capitol check raising --capitol

attack raising questions of security versus access. call from colorado springs, good morning. caller: hey, as far as the security goes, everybody has a right to access their representatives. now,

that? i feel sorry for them. they got no sense what is going on the world, but they want to talk about it, but they don't want to do nothing about it. host: this says congress is supposed to do the will for the

people but we have nearly all republicans working for one man, and a seriously flawed one, at that. you can send us a text message at (202) 748-8003. this says the national guard emerging as a sticking point on the capitol hill security bill. mitch mcconnell saying he opposes that commission. on the senate floor yesterday, the democratic leader, chuck schumer. [video clip] >> the mistake of our democracy is crucial to end the poison of the big lie, to establish an independent and trusted record of what transpired, and to make sure an event, like january 6, never, never happens again. yesterday, the house of representatives passed legislation establishing just such a commission with a strong bipartisan vote. 35 republicans joined democrats

in approving the measure, defining their leadership, who turned away at the 11th hour in an act of utter spineless nest. last night and just now, i began the rule 14 process that would make this legislation available for consideration on the floor of the senate. i just moved to place the legislation for a commission on the floor, under rule 14. and it is my intention to bring the bipartisan legislation for the january 6 commission up for a vote. host: that is from the senate floor yesterday. we carry the senate live on c-span2. bloomington, wisconsin, dan, good morning. how do you strike the balance between security and access? caller: good morning. there is a forward answer, i think, to both issues.

trump must go to jail. i called about 18 months ago, and the big talk was trump 2024. oh, my gosh, and i said to myself, how brave do most of you republicans think america is right now? read -- my response is in 2024, trump and his cronies, they're going to be in jail. the district attorney of new york state will be on these people, and now we have come full circle. people want everything done today, and things take time. and i warned america that trump and his family and his cronies are going back to jail. that is the only way you're going to do security and access back in the capital. can you imagine in 1968, the chicago police protecting the capitol during the riots?

they would have done a really good job keeping the people out. so let's put things in context here. capitol should not have been under attack. trump should never have been talking that day. and, you know, how much more do we have to take to insult our intelligence? thank you. host: thank you, dan. i want to share a couple stories related to cnn, first from the washington post, the headline, chris cuomo advising his brother on harassment allegations. the story points out that cnn anchor chris cuomo advised his brother, andrew cuomo, and senior members of the governor's staff on how to respond to sexual harassment allegations made earlier this year by women who had worked with the governor. that according to four people familiar with the discussions. cnn saying the anchor is facing no discipline in that decision. politico.com has another story involving cnn, trump justice department seizing cnn records.

they point out the president trump's justice department secretly detained those records related to phone calls involving barbara starr. she was notified of this about the move in which prosecutors were able to get email and phone-related records for two months in 2017. that at politico.com. john in costa mesa, california, good morning. caller: thanks for c-span. yes, passes in the house, fails in the senate. passes in the house, fails in the senate. it is all predictable, by one vote. and this is the people's house. it is like defending your own house. if you have problems with your own house, you are still going to defend it so that you can keep your family together, so you can keep your country together. and we need an independent investigation into what is going on, because the partisan politics skew any real look at

what happened. something dreadful happened there at the capitol, and it needs to be fixed. this is not a movie. there are no superheroes. but we do have to begin to act like the professionals that we are. there is too much familiarity. you know, calling people by their last name and not addressing them by their position. pelosi this and that. this is what it looks like. this is what it looks like when things began to crumble, when people start calling in and saying, well, because of this and that -- that is how it feels in the mccoys. what the heck is going on here? let's have some professionalism. this would have never happened at the capitol, within shouting distance of this rally. host: danny is next from denver, colorado. caller: good morning. we are having a coup, coup

d'etat, insurrection, whatever you want to call it. mccarthy is part of it, mcconnell is part of it. these people with no morals, no integrity. they are elected politicians and cannot say that what this man has done is wrong, the most corrupt president we have ever had in office. we have only seen the tip of the iceberg as far as the corruption they are involved in. unindicted co-conspirator. michael cohen has already done time, and trump, six months afterwards -- the gentleman who think she will be convicted or will sit in jail, you are wrong. he will never do time because you have mcconnell and mccarthy and this coup d'etat, they are trying to take over the government. the people do not realize this, especially the republican people, blinded by trump's propaganda machine. they are the ones that have lost their pride and integrity, their moral values. they cannot even stand up to this man. this man should be prosecuted

and put in jail. he should not be above the law. right now, he is still above the law. host: we are asking about the issue at the security balance and access on capitol hill. dividing our phone lines regionally. a live view of the u.s. capitol. the headline in most newspapers around the country, the cease-fire between israel and hamas. front page of the "washington post." some details, as the recent cease-fire between israel and hamas past dawn on friday, attention shifted from the 11 have a day conflict to the immediate aftermath, which includes a dire humanitarian situation in gaza and expected political fallout in jerusalem. international leaders welcoming the news that the cease-fire agreement and pledging support for reconstruction efforts in gaza. airstrikes damaged electricity and water systems. both israel and hamas claim success after the cease-fire,

but in israel, where the conflict potentially boosted prime minister benjamin netanyahu and his chances of staying in power after another indecisive election, far-right politicians who netanyahu realize to form a coalition, and many residents in israel's south which make up the base ban bested the cease-fire. the death toll, there were 12 israelis killed, including one child, and more than 250 palestinians, including 65 children and 39 women. the president yesterday with these remarks on the path forward. [video clip] pres. biden: united states committed to working with the united nations, and remain committed to working with united nations and other international staker -- stakeholders to provide rapid international assistance and support to people of gaza and the gaza reconstruction efforts.

we will do this in full partnership with the palestinian authority and -- not hamas, authority, in a manner that does not permit hamas to restock its military arsenal. i believe the palestinians and israelis equally deserve to live safely and securely and to enjoy equal measures of freedom, prosperity, and democracy. my administration will continue our quiet and relentless diplomacy toward that end. i believe we have a genuine opportunity to make progress, and i'm am committed to working for it. host: that was president biden after the cease-fire was announced between hamas and the is really government. patricia sang the senate needs to tell pelosi know and invest that $2 billion in securing the border, protect america first. sharon is joining us from germantown, maryland. good morning. caller: hi, love c-span. i just want to say, the toxicity

and the hate that that terrorist in mar-a-lago has because, he should be executed after a trial . he should lock up his entire family, that is number one. host: i will stop you there because that is going a little bit too far. to steve in san jose, california, on capitol capital security. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a challenge for c-span, and i do not think they are going to take me up on it, because you want to allow the sleeping dog to lie and give -- continue to give a misperception to all of america. here is the challenge. i want you to play for america, i want you to quote, because you have the speech that trump gave the day of the capitol riot. i want you to quote him, gives

the best argument that it is his fault, that he incited it," him on the other side where he is saying, let's go down peacefully, peacefully. and let's see what the opposing quote states from both sides. is that fair enough? host: it is absolutely fair. in fact, it is on our website, c-span.org. it is there for you to watch in its entirety. we appreciate the call. watch it any at c-span.org. john in california, good morning. caller: good morning. host: how do you check the balance between security and access to the u.s. capitol? caller: there is no balance.

i don't know. host: lindsay in south carolina. good morning. hello? spence in west virginia, good morning. caller: hey, steve, god bless you, good to have you back in the seats there. hold your head up high because you have been a professional your whole life. we appreciate you. on this thing about the capitol, i feel like anyone that was there is a traitor to america, even though they were encouraged by trump to do this. maybe in their hearts, they felt like they were doing the right thing. maybe they need to put a couple machine guns on top of the capitol, just like they do the white house, and if the crowd comes in, there will be a morning. you know, just take corrective actions to do it that way

instead of the fences and all that. because it is awful night when the kids -- that is the sad part, the kids i get to visit washington, d.c., all those have been canceled because these people act like kids. anybody that voted against accepting the election, in my book, is a traitor to the constitution. host: and things were disrupted because of covid and now because of security. caller: oh, it is so sad. just like freedoms being taken away. all this stuff about freedoms, but if you count in your life how many times dishonest people make it hard on honest people in the world, that is the saddest thing about it all. have a great day, steve. god bless you. host: thank you for the call. a story in the "wall street journal," covid-19 disrupts years of health progress in the united states. here are some of the details from the journal this morning.

deaths from the covid-19 pandemic are causing an extraordinary jolt in the u.s., inflating the nation's death rate to the highest level seen in nearly two decades. when the u.s. will snap back to pre-pandemic levels following ms vaccination effort remains to be seen. daily debts are on the way back down, but the disease is unlikely to disappear, and health experts say there could be long-running effects from issues like mist cancer screenings, surging rate of drug overdoses, and health inequities exacerbated by the pandemic. the age-adjusted mortality rate of the u.s. shot up by about 16% and 2020 from the year before, that according to provisional data from the cdc, marking the highest point since 2003. this points out the wall street journal broken 90-year streak in which the death rate was lower than it was 10 years earlier. back to your phone calls on the issue of security and how to strike the balance between that and access. we have been showing you scenes around capitol hill were

security has been significantly increased since january 6, including this metal fencing which is temporary and barricades also in place. part of the debate is whether or not congress would provide some sort of permanent fencing. some lawmakers say they do not want and to look like a militarized zone. donald in alexandria, virginia, thanks for waiting. caller: good morning, and thanks for c-span. i just wanted to add a couple of points. one is that prior to january 6, about a month earlier i had gone to visit my senator, and you did not have to go through a metal detector at that time -- you did have to go through a metal to take address that time, as well. shortly after january 6, i biked up to the capitol and around the perimeter of the razor wire fence, and inside the fence, there were national guards every 20 yards just about. at the entrances where the

national guards and the police, and it incorporated not just the capitol building but when all the way up to union station, inc. the supreme court and the library of congress, as well as the power supply for the capitol and all the house and senate office buildings. i agree with the idea of the law they are passing, and i think it should be added to it that a section of the razor wire fence should be created in a memorial with bronze statues of a guardsman and a capitol police man behind it. host: thank you for the call. steve in ohio with this text message. the investigation of the capitol riots should be handled by law enforcement. it was a criminal activity.

each individual that first their way into the capitol must be prosecuted. after sentencings, congress should call hearings to question all participants, those rioters, and law enforcement. front page of the "washington times." photograph of jen psaki. vows to find the truths about the rights at the capitol. this, trump impeachment 3.0. the white house and leaders, how they feel about it. as reality set in, the plan faces and all but certain defeat. more on the debate yesterday on this $1.9 billion provision for enhanced security, both here in washington and also security measures for members of congress in their district offices, including cameras and additional security personnel. texas republican congresswoman

kay granger. [video clip] >> in january, the speaker of the house directed a team to review security needs on the house side of the capitol following the events of january 6. this review was directed without even consulting house republicans or the senate. even though the review by general honore began as a partisan effort, members of the appropriations committee hoped to get back on track and we can negotiate a funding agreement that could be supported by both parties in both changer -- chambers. that is why it is disappointing where nala for the bill before us, a one-cited solution that does not have by and some democrats in the senate. the bill today implements permanent recommendations before ongoing security assessments are complete, creates a multimillion dollar fund for future expenses at the capitol prior to knowing what is really needed and delays

much-needed reimbursements for agencies that have protected the capitol since january 6, such as the national guard and the capitol police. it also provides $200 million to establish a force within the d.c. national guard to respond to incidents of the capitol, raising serious concerns about the role of our military on american soil. host: a sample of the debates that took place yesterday before advancing that $1.9 billion security provision effort, final vote 213-212, a very narrow majority, democrats supporting it, but a number of democrats try to block the measure, and republican saying no to that at is no funding. albert and oklahoma sent this, i think the fence is great, do not let congress out until they finish the people's work. the house is in recess. the district work period as we move into the memorial day break.

lawmakers return on monday, june 14. there will be a pro forma session at 9:00 eastern time this morning, a brief session. the senate is back next week with sessions getting it away monday afternoon. charles in uniontown, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i appreciate you having me on today. i watch c-span all the time. i just have a couple things to say about our capitol and the security. i have been retired since 2007. and i have actually told people down at work, when i was still working, before i retired, that there was a civil war, a coup, coming, and it did happen. i kept telling my wife this. i will not even call him the president. biden, he won't even take a drug test on national tv. ok, everybody knows he is a drug addict and his family is.

democrats are baby killers, everybody knows that. i mean, it is a shame. don't they get it? host: this is from chris in alabama, we need something like a green zone established in d.c. to prevent another january 6 event from ever occurring again. i miss being in d.c. so much. i want to go back to internal democratic politics in advance of the bill that passed yesterday. this is a headline, republicans balk at the security bill over the price and use of funds, and it focuses on the three-member set wrote in no. they released a joint statement thursday saying that a bill that pours $1.9 billion into increased police surveillance and force without addressing the underlying threats of organized and violent white supremacy, radicalization, and misinformation that led to this attack will not prevent it from happening again. three other democratic members. alexandria ocasio-cortez of new

york, rashida tlaib of michigan, and jamaal bowman of new york, taking the no position. a call from texas. caller: good morning. i just want to say, this is what happens when you pay attention to the big lie. we have been lied to for five years from that ex-president. when you lie, people get emotions, and they attack. republicans really needs to start telling the truth to all those ignorant republicans who believe in conspiracy theories. thank you so much. host: and this is from keith in florida, saying, where is the loyalty of capitol going to be with this extra pay and bonuses, is it to the people of the u.s. or to congress?

from california, john, good morning. caller: yes, good morning. i just want to say, this started well before 2018 or 2019, is started when donald trump ran for office and started questioning the outcome of the election well before he won in 2016. people have to go back and look at it. his whole tenure as president was catering to putin and all the dictators around the world. people should look at the reality of this man is not a good representative of this country and the beliefs of this country and democracy altogether. if they do not do something about him continuing to spread lies about the bad things about this country, he's going to continue to create nothing but conspiracy lies.

that is going to continue to interfere with the peaceful operations of our democracy for a long time to come. host: thanks for the call. this is from a viewer in new jersey, almost all state and county federal buildings across this vast country in the last 40 years, you have to go through mags to enter the building. same case should be for the u.s. capitol. you must have security in entrance points. this from foxnews.com, the white house teaming to add vaccination stickers on profiles. this points out the largest dating apps in america are teaming up to encourage americans to get vaccinated, a move to support president biden 's goal of getting 70% of adults at least one coronavirus vaccine by july 4. the companies joining organizations that have stepped up by offering incentives and

information to help americans get vaccinated, including the announcement from governor of maryland yesterday of a $2 million lottery, including a july 4 drawing, that would allow you to win $400,000 if you get vaccinated in maryland, following leads from other states, including ohio. call from alabama, good morning to you. how do you strike the balance between access here in washington on capitol hill and security for lawmakers? caller: first of all, i think i knew as a prior law enforcement officer i self and being in the marine corps that something was off with the insurrection. the security personnel that took care of trump when he was president, they walked out of the white house down to that area where he held up the bible, they used more force on those peaceful protesters than they did on the people that committed the rioting at the capital. it was all planned. there was conspiracy, and that

is why the republicans do not want to have anything to do with the commission. they know what was done. they know what trump did, especially mccarthy. he knew what he told the president. he does not want that to come out. and to see this man trump get away with all the things he has done, and there are so many things we do not know about what he has done. for example, right after he lost the election, he set up to try and derail all of our peace agreements with different countries, withdraw from africa, germany, because he is pissed off with the foreign minister. demand has no idea what to do is right for this country. as long as we continue to support this man, he will be a danger to this country. just like we sent from the beginning, he is the most dangerous man in america. the republican's stick by his side, we will never be a country again. the man is a menace and a threat. host: headline from cnbc.com,

u.s. proposing a global minimum corporate tax rate of 15% with an ion something even higher. the former defense secretary saying establishing a global minimum rate should halt the race to the bottom globally for tax rate spirit the u.s. corporate tax rate is at 21%, and the democrats proposing it to revert to 20%, in part to pay for the infrastructure built in stephen moore join us to get his perspective on that and other issues at the top of the hour. lyndon from akron, ohio, good morning. caller: good morning morning, steve. first of all, i think placing the blame on this horrible event , it is that trump called all these people to washington. what presidential candidate that lost has ever brought his followers to the capital after losing the election?

it was observed. this was sort of planned, planned by trump. as far as sealing off the capital, i think it is a good idea, because you never know. these idiots out there may go ahead and elect him again. and who knows what he will call for. so yeah, i am sort of for protecting our capitol. host: have you been to capitol hill in the past? caller: oh, yeah. host: it was is very open area, and now there is a lot of metal fencing and additional security checkpoints. back to the question, how do you strike that balance to make it that open campus that you have been accustomed to but also protecting members of congress and the public? caller: well, you know, believe me, it has been a number of years since i have been to

washington. so i really do not have much of an opinion on it. obviously, denies or's -- designers, architects, whatever, would have to be involved in making it safe but making it attractive, perhaps. host: thank you for the call. alvin, you are next, from georgia. we look at some of that temporary fencing on capitol hill. good morning. caller: good morning. i was just upset about it myself. i think it is downright treason. i am african-american, and this is our country. and i filled those people violated our democracy. and i think they are the people that listen to trump that did the insurrection. i think this lets people know you just cannot do this. for those senators and the gop that stood by and did nothing and stand up to support this

guy, i think it is horrible that people died, of all races, all religions, all colored people that make this country the great country that it is. and for them to stand there and say nothing happened, it is a stain on our country. it is downright treason. but those people that violated america and storms that capitol, they ought to go to prison. host: thank you for the call. additional funding, $1.9 billion, would include body cameras for capitol hill police officers and travel protection for members of congress. breaking down some of the other dollar figures. national guard reimbursement, about $500 million. fencing, $350 million. rapid response something new, $200 million. to protect their windows and doors, 160 million dollars, protect the judges and the courts, $175 million.

$40 million for the prosecutors. that is according to "the new york times." a call from wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning, c-span or the question is a good one. it is going to have to start in the senate. maxine waters, look at her. she promoted destruction. you can hear her say it. all these people that were at the capitol and the ones that got into the capitol, not one of them so far has been a trump backer. trump-backed people stayed outside. and you had the guy from alabama and let him go on and on and on, saying things that were not true. but if someone comes on and starts talking about trump -- i am a trump supporter, but i also

voted for barack obama the first time, second time for bill clinton. so you have to challenge some of these people. and they say all the trump lies -- ask them, can you name me three? just name a three. make it fair. host: you have an interesting perspective, having voted in support of the president but also president barack obama. caller: yeah, i know it. i did not like john mccain. john mccain was a traitor to this country. bill clinton was an excellent president, but he should have said none of your business and he probably would have been down as one of the best presidents ever. but you have to look at the whole picture. it starts in the capitol, whatever senators say and do. why is it all the democratic cities that had riots and burned last year? you never heard one host: thank you for the call,

one more call, what had lied. a 9/11 style panel for capital riots, several republican senators voicing their concerns. scott, we will give you the last words from massachusetts. the balance between security and access, how do you respond to that? caller: we are having an issue. they want to send more money on security and that this insurrection supposedly -- i think is absolutely stupid. i think the problem we are having -- and something i'd not like trump. i like some of his policies, but i do not like the man at all. it had nothing to do with the people that went into the capital. -- capitol. there are idiots in all of our states this last year doing way

worse than what they did there. this is blank -- being blown out of proportion so they can use my money, create more things, and become a bigger government. host: thank you to you for phoning in and your calls and comments. a reminder that the conversation continues on our facebook page at facebook.com/c-span and more of your tweets at at @cspanwj. joining us from chicago is stephen moore, longtime advisor tom former president trump, he will be talking about president's economic impact policy and his assessment of the action by the fed. the editor at large joining us to talk about the future of the republican party. you are watching and listening to c-span's washington journal on this friday, the 21 a medic may. -- the 21 nomadic -- the 21st of may.

>> journalist matt will be our guide on in depth. >> humiliation, upon the planet most powerful nation. the stairway on which on the evening of the 29th of april, fugitives were sent to a rooftop, secure the place among the symbolic it just symbolic images. for me, as all my generations, the struggle was among the foremost experiences of our careers. i was one of those who flock to the u.s. embassy on that terrifying day. >> his book is -- other books include "catastrophe, the u.s. goes to war." and "overlord, the battle for

normandy." join us with your phone calls, text, and tweets. be sure to tune in on sunday, july 4 for a conversation with a harvard university professor and historian gordon reed on book tv on c-span two. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us from chicago is economist stephen moore, he is with freedomworks, he is the author of the book "trumponomics: inside the america first plan to revive our economy" the plan to revive the economy. guest: great to be with you and thank you for c-span, you do a great job providing both sides of the issues. host: we thank you for being with us. let's begin with the economy and the issue of taxes because as you know, the debate in washington, we saw yesterday,

secretary pete buttigieg defending it to trillion dollar infrastructure bill adding to another to truly dollars for communities and families and the question is, how to pay for the president proposing an increase in the tax rate from 21% to 28%. what impact will that have on the u.s. economy? guest: as you know, i have been -- i have an impact on the -- my buddy larry kudlow and others, we put that together. it was an experiment to see whether we could revise the economy and speed up the economy by lowering our tax rates on american businesses so they could compete more effectively with countries like china, japan, and germany and mexico. and we lowered our corporate rate, but we also lowered the tax rates on american small businesses as well appeared we had something like 8 million

small businesses in this country and it was a fabulous success. anyway look at it, we have a massive increase in employment, the biggest gains, family income, in virtually that history of the country. we lowered the poverty rate to the lowest rate in recorded history in the united states. we lowered the number of people who were poor in the country. it was by any measure, it was a huge success for the country in terms of revising and speeding up the economy. i do not understand the logic of reversing a lot of those tax cuts. they work. let's stick with a program that was working. and i do worry, steve, that if we continue to read his stash race this tax rates, the small business tax rates, -- raise the tax rates, the small business tax rates, and do not forget, there's a big increase in the h tax, a tax on businesses.

it will have a negative effect and how negative that will be, i am not sure. i can tell you, we twisted the dial in the right direction, we got good, positive results for the economy and if you turn them in the other direction, you will see a lot of jobs. either way, the biggest winner from that tax increase, god forbid it was enacted into law, would be china because we are reducing the competitiveness of their united states that will make china and other countries more attractive places to invest in. host: the criticism from democrats, how do you pay for the tax cuts? guest: that is a legitimate concern and we do see an increase, we are talking about now, $4 trillion or if i truly know the deficits which are really frightening. -- or $5 trillion deficits. i think the national debt is a disgrace. the first thing we have to do is not spend any more money.

stop spending money washington. the situation with the economy right now is key. i use the analogy of a rapid shutdown. this economy is ready to take up. we have the vaccine out there, do not forget the vaccine, operation warp speed was the stimulus for the economy. we do not need massive increases in government spending right now. so we have an economy that is reopening. in chicago, for the first time in a year, we are starting to see stores opening up an businesses opening up. it is a wonderful thing to say. -- to see. i think the rest of this year looks really good for the economy. so stop spending, washington. stop regulating, get out of the way and we will have a really strong economy for the rest of the year. host: you have seen the numbers, courtesy -- the nation's overall

debt is now far exceeding $28 trillion, put that in perspective for the average taxpayer, it is over $225,000. my question, at what point does the debt impact the economy? guest: it is doing it right now. look at what happened in the last month or so with the rise of prices. this is a real potential crisis going on in this country right now with the inflation. everybody is feeling it. i'm feeling it at the gas station. if you like it or what is happening with grocery prices, meat and produce, those are rising rapidly. looking at the price of cars and used cars, going up, lumber, prices have tripled. since biden was elected, we have seen almost a 90 sent increase nationwide in the price of gasoline. that is a tax. inflation and higher gas prices are a tax, not high income

people, on low income people. why is inflation starting to flare up again? it is because they are borrowing trillions of dollars, spending money that we do not have, and the worst thing congress can do right now is to add another choo-choo and spending bill because you will see prices really -- another $2 trillion spending bill because you will really see prices -- i am older than you are, but i remember the 70's, i remember the gas lines, i remember going to the grocery store seeing higher prices. that is a real burden on american families. host: when you talk about gas prices, instead of -- do you blame the colonial pipeline resulting in a five day, basically a halt and the shipment of fuel, that has now dissipated in the last couple of days. guest: it is a great point about the colonial pipeline, there was basically an attack on it, on the pipeline, it had a negative effect. you are right. he sell the pipe -- prices shoot

up. how stupid does it look that joe biden is not building the keystone xl pipeline. we need pipelines all over this country so we can get the oil and gas we are producing to the places that need it. the southeast, where we live, you and i, we have seen a huge spike. gas was not available at any price for three or four days. we need to build our own infrastructure. the inflation rate was rising, it has been rising every month since november. it was not just this last week or so, it has been on an upward trend for four or five months. the last report that came out about a week ago, which actually predated what happened with colonial, that showed a .9% increase in inflation in one month, so over a 12 year period, a 12 month period, that would be effectively a 10% inflation rate.

we are in a danger zone, no question about it. anybody goes to the grocery store, if you have two go to the hardware store, you are seeing higher prices every day. host: i want to go back to the treasury secretary, armor secretary janet yellen, she addressed the issue of inflation. here is what she had to say. [video clip] i doubt we are going to see an inflationary cycle although i think the administration is watching that closely and my colleagues have put out a blog post on this. we expect somewhat higher inflation in the next several months for a variety of technical reasons because of something called base attacks -- the months in which prices are moving at the average and that

leaves us with a number in which they were rebounding toward more normal. that is a transitory thing, at something -- with respect to the wages, we have suggested wage growth has not picked up meaningfully. in the areas where you do see pickup, for example this month in services with a pickup in wages, but still, that is an area where wages fell at the beginning of the pandemic and we are seeing that drive back to normal levels. in areas where wages are more flexible, we expect to see the return to renewable -- normal levels.

i do not see we have normal upward pressure. host: that is janet yellen, the treasury, her assessment of the unevenness of the economic recovery. how do you respond? guest: i respect janet yellen, she was the former chair so she knows a lot about monetary policy and my reaction, i pray she is right. i do not think she has. i am worried about inflation. the people in washington, d.c. live in a bubble. they live in a bubble. they do not see what is happening around the country. i think janet yellen needs to go to a grocery store. she notes to go to a hardware store and looks at -- and look at the hardware and lumber. americans are feeling this every day and last night, i was talking to a group and citizens from all of the chicago areas, they were saying, i am seeing

higher prices at stores. the question i think, once you let this genie out of the bottle called inflation, can you stop it back in the bottle? we have learned that sometimes it is not easy to do so. the most important thing right now to make sure we do not see an increased inflation as stop spending money. no more at $2 trillion spending bills. i think biden wants two more $2 trillion spending bills. it is not complicated. inflation is too many dollars and we have a situation right now where we are turning out so much money that of course, economics 100 tells us will lead to higher prices and we are seeing it. host: we will get to your phone calls in a minute. (202) 748-8000 for democrats. (202) 748-8001 for republicans. you can send a text message and on twitter.

guest: just once and i worked for him in the 2016 campaign and we put that economic program together and i met him many times when he was in the white house. i think he has right now the kingmaker of the party, he is extremely popular with republican voters. i saw a poll the other day that almost 80% of republican voters have donald trump in high regard. he is a forced to be contended with either in running for present again in 2024 i'm a witch i hope he does, or if not, helping whoever that might be. there are a lot of great republicans. the real source of talent in the republican right now, republican party, as in the governor's

mansion where you have 27 republican governors who have done a amazing job. host: percentagewise, the chances that donald trump what about -- run in 20 24, where would you put that? guest: i know him very well. he wants -- he does feel that he was treated. -- cheated. the point is, if joe biden continues to struggle, and it has been a bad few weeks, there will be a real opening because people remember how great the economy was under trump. we will see what happens, but three years is a lot of time. host: this is the headline on, in early january before donald trump left the white house, but the washington post, trump will have the worst job record in modern history, that it is not the pandemic -- just the pandemic, nixon, reagan, george w. bush, what do you attribute

that to? guest: that is a laughable claim. we have the best job record. before the pandemic hit, i remember this so vividly because i remember, if it was not for the pandemic, trump would have one. back in january of 2020, before the pandemic, we had the lowest unemployment rate in 50 years. we had the lowest poverty rate in the history of the u.s. we have the biggest job skein, we had a record number of unfilled jobs at the time and wages rose and a rose for every group, low income people, middle income people, and it is a booming economy and we need to get back to that. obviously, we got hit with a pandemic and that caused tens of millions of americans to lose their jobs because we shut down our economy. i did not think the american people blaine trump for that, it is a question -- my point is,

the reason why we have an economy that is on the mend right now, we are getting the child back, is because of operation warp speed, one of the greatest programs in history. donald trump deserves the nobel prize for developing the vaccine in nine months that most experts thought would take two or three years. host: from new york, republican line, we appreciate you reading. -- waiting period caller: -- waiting period caller: i haven't spoke with you in a while. the idea of inflation, people do not understand what the fed's role is in inflation. according to ben bernanke, in that 2008 crash when the fed was buying all of those assets from the banks and they were paying top dollar for those assets,

that money that was spent according to ben bernanke, he borrowed it from the money that was placed at the fed and they bought those assets and kept them at the bank. he never went out into the general public. all of this asset buying which i understand it is a month, i think it is 40 billion in bonds and $80 billion in treasuries, that money is going out into the economy. i heard a reporter on the news the other day that the supply a year ago was $4 trillion. now, i heard it is 18.6 trillion. this is what is causing india's -- the inflation because when you have so much money in circulation, it is devalued like anything else. the more there is of something, the less value. the public does not understand, they thoroughly things out and say, who is to blame?

this is the fed, they are monetizing the debt because they are borrowing all of this monday they do not -- money they do not have. they increased the money supply and reagan came in, they cut the money supply and raised interest rates. host: let's get a response. guest: one thing i love about c-span as you have such smart listeners and this gentleman did a great job of explaining what is going on with the monetary policy. i will make it simple. when we have right now going on in washington and it is unhealthy, as we have congress appropriating all of this money that we do not have and the trillions of dollars. $1 trillion as 1 followed by 12 zeros. and then we have all of the spending going on and of course, the treasury department has to issue all of this debt to pay for all of this spending we cannot afford. and then we have the federal reserve board, which is printing

money, essentially as this gentleman said, monetizing the debt by printing money and then buying those bonds. that is what argentina does, that is what zimbabwe does, that story never has a happy ending and we have to stop right now, stop all of the spending -- deficit finance borrowing and spending. i really believe that this is a course that most americans believe it is very unwise and i think we still have time to unwind this. we have to grow the economy, stop the government spending and debt and then i think we will nip this inflation problem in the bud. host: we are talking to stephen moore, -- former senior advisor to the trump campaign and to president trump, he is a former member of the wall street journal editorial board, now at freedomworks and the author of "trumponomics: inside the america first plan to revive our economy." he is joining from

woodbridge, connecticut. caller: good morning, it is a pleasure to talk to you, both of you this morning. i'm going to piggyback off of the last caller talking about federal reserve's. i think jeremy, ray dalia, warren buffett, one thing all of these people have in common is they are warning us of huge bubbles right now. we have massive bubbles in stocks, bonds, the crypto market , bitcoin is now bigger than j.p. morgan and market cap. the federal reserve is pumping up billable -- up the bubble and nobody on cnbc or bloomberg will tell you that they are not creating these bubbles. everybody does it. it is not a conspiracy theory. what is the utility of these bubbles?

i do not know. we have a housing market right now where it is increasing prices more than any other time in recent history, even beating out on a 17 -- 2007-2008. the federal reserve -- $40 billion a month. over $10 trillion has been pumped in these markets making the superrich richer beyond their wildest dreams without having to produce anything. it all goes into share. buybacks, we are in these massively distorted times and the federal reserve is distorting all of our prices. the price of bonds, the price of stocks, the price of real estate through this inflationary money printing that is usually reserved for third world countries, debt monetization, the united states should not be participating in this sort of economics. host: thank you for the call.

stephen moore. guest: you have it really wise and knowledgeable listeners. i cannot approve what the gentleman was saying, i have one point. you are right about the massive increase in the debt we were talking about earlier and people have to realize, if we have inflation, that means that interest rates are on the rise. inflation and interest rates run parallel. let me put it like this, every percentage point increase in the interest rate increases the national debt by another one trillion dollars. if we have a 2% or 3% increase in the interest rates, which could happen, i hope it doesn't, then you are talking about another 2-3,000,000,000,000 dollars to pay taxes. and then you get to a point where we are paying more taxes just to pay the interest on the debt of the money we have been borrowing.

i agree with this gentleman, we have to stop this and get back to some sense of fiscal responsibility and fiscal sanity because we are not seeing that right now in washington. host: do you regret that you are not on the federal reserve? guest: i do right now. honestly, it was not the job that i pined for. but right now, i wish i were on the federal reserve board because i do think you need differing opinions about what should be done. i think one of the things i objected to was the tax for -- it was like a club over there at the fed. groupthink on the everybody thinks exactly alike and they do not want like -- they did not want people like judy. she should be that chairman of the fed at some point and people like me who have use -- i was sounding the alarm. the debt is too high, we are printing too much money. he did not want those views, it did not want the naysayers sang

-- this could be a bubble that could cause real pain and hardship in the future. host: i want to go back to an issue that the president brought up in his speech before the joint session of congress. this is a statement, we would have $2.1 trillion of tax revenues. respond to that point of view. guest: it is a great point. one of the things we did that was so effective, the one reason why we created so much jobs and had the surplus in employment, we cut the corporate tax rate and we did something called that repatriation tax where we lowered the tax -- when a multinational company, an american company has the facility in france or germany or asia, we said, you pay us 10% tax and bring it back to the united states and invested here. it was fabulously successful. we bought -- brought $1 trillion

of capital stored abroad back to the shores, it is one of the reasons why we have the fabulous job growth under trump and what my worry is, if we start raising the tax rates, then all of a sudden, instead of the tax rates coming back to the united states, they will go offshore again, back to mexico and china and india and other countries. we want the jobs in the united states and one way of doing that, there are a lot of ways, but one way of doing it is keeping our tax rates lower and not higher than the rest of the world. host: wealthy corporations not paying fair share, they need to step up and open -- ohio, diane, next with stephen moore from chicago. caller: hello, mr. moore. there is a spending bill out there -- with the latest one that came up, i am wondering, what is in it?

is it a bunch of stuff beside possibly some of the stoppage that should be out there, but our representatives are getting personal things covered in regards to security. i got the impression from a color on the earlier segment that may be are getting their own home with security and that feels over the top, we have the very highly paid representatives and they already have -- and now we will pay for the security symptoms -- security symptoms -- security systems. maybe the cars that we pay for them. this feels a little like we are doing more than we need to and then they are basically paid after the politicians, they stoke our passions and then they wonder why from time to time, somebody gets a little crazy and they should be protected from those crazy people, but at the same time, they are bringing

some of them amongst themselves, we have steve scalise a and gabby giffords, it is not just trump's that are stoking the stuff, they do the same thing and they want us to pay for their personal security on top of their extreme salaries and the other benefits on top of that. regular people cannot relate to that. host: we will stop you there and get you a response. they are providing security cameras to district offices in light of some of the security issues that lawmakers have dealt with over the last couple of years. stephen moore, your response? guest: i want to put this in context because this woman was talking about the security bill that you were talking about earlier on the show. i am not an expert on congressional and, capital security, but i will make this point. if we need to spend $2 billion

more on security, we want to keep the capitol and our members of congress say, that is fine. let's do this. that's cut every single government program in washington by 15% right now. not spend more, spend less. get spending across the board down by about 15%. i think almost everybody on the show who was watching the show would agree, washington waste about $.30 out of every dollar it spends. cut the gas spending and use some of that savings for if you need more security for congress, ok, use the money you cut from these other programs for those priorities. i had the same concern about the infrastructure built, so-called infrastructure bill. it is $2 trillion and only about 6% of it goes for roads and bridges and fixing -- making sure our bridges are safe, people agree with that, we want good roads, but at this bill

spends money on electric vehicles all of these things that have nothing to do with infrastructure. it is the green new deal and meanwhile, we are going to spend $2 trillion on infrastructure and a major infrastructure project called the keystone pipeline that everyone knows we need pipelines in the country and that was not going to cost the government a penny, that was going to be paid by the private sector and for some reason, i didn't kill that program and 10,000 jobs. i do not understand what is going on in washington. we need to spend more money on something's come up fine, but pay-as-you-go, cut other programs and prioritize. that is what every family does. we prioritize, we spend more on this, that means we have to spend less on that. host: to that point, he asked the following -- good energy prices go down if president joe biden reversed the key tone -- the keystone xl position and on

military bases for a stable electric right? guest: this is a great question, i wrote a book on energy policy, a couple of years ago. it is called feeling freedom. the energy store in america is an incredible one. under trump, more so under trump, we gained energy independence for the first time in 60 years as long as i have been alive, we have been importing oil from saudi arabia. for the first time in january of 2021, the last month that donald trump was in office, we imported zero oil from saudi arabia because we were producing so much in the united states. it was an incredible success story. we actually had states like pennsylvania, states like west virginia, states like texas, oklahoma, north dakota producing more oil than ever before and we were exporting the stuff, this whole show has been about americans financing and what a great thing that we could sell

it rather than buying it from saudi arabia, from iran, russia, and so we finally arrived at this point, we were energy independent and biden comes in and stops producing our energy. i do not -- it makes my head scratch. i do not understand why we want to produce american oil it is not just the keystone pipeline, they are producing more epa regulations that will make it difficult for american oil and gas drillers, one of the first executive orders by joe biden was to shut down drilling for oil and gas on american federal land. we have $30 trillion of oil and gas under our feet and federal land and biden does not want to pump it. i believe in all of the above, i believe we should use our nuclear power, we should use our oil, our gas, we have the cleanest coal in the world, 500 years worth of coal, we want energy independence. we do not want to be independent on these foreign countries. it is a stimulus to the economy and a windmill, so, that is fine, we can build wind mills

and solar power, but we have a $2 trillion economy. we cannot provide the energy and power that produces our steel, cars, manufacturing, and our technology with the and solar power. it is a crazy idea and that is exactly what biden is doing and we will need higher prices of energy and more blackouts and brownouts like in texas and california and that is a scary situation. host: if you are listening on the radio app, we are talking with stephen moore, former trump economic advisor and the author of a number of books, a graduate of the university of illinois and earn his master's in george mason university. doug on the democrat line from cocoa beach, florida. caller: hi. i want to ask you three questions, ok. one, why is it that the republicans spend money like a drunken sailor when they are in power, but when the democrats get in power, we have to cut

back? if you are so insightful, why did you not see that they trump tax cuts were not going to pay for this instead like you told everybody that it would create some the job that it would pay for itself, that did not happen. three. give me a second. host: we will take the first two and come back. guest: i agree with this gentleman on the first point. you're right. both parties are responsible. i'm not blaming one party or the other. republicans spend like drunken sailors, democrats and spend like drunken sailors, we need people to stop spending and start cutting. the biggest problem in america today, i think economically, is the overspending happening. that is why i shudder to think we will spend another $2 trillion. we need to cut government spending to pay our bills and i

agree with this gentleman, both are equally responsible for the situation. we promised that would -- if we cut the taxes, we would create more jobs, higher salaries, a better economy, and remember how great things were at the end of 2020 and early 21 and we had an economy that was firing on all cylinders and that meant more jobs, we want to put more people back into work, we want higher wages and salaries for workers, even the lowest income workers, a lower poverty rate. i will not apologize for that. it was one of the great achievements of our country and i hope that we do not reverse those gains. if you cut taxes, good things happen for the economy, you lower the cost of investing and working and one of the problems i have right now by the way, we are paying people way too much money not to be working and we are not providing enough wage and salary for people who are working. we will give those assistive people, we should give bonuses to people -- if we give bonuses

to people, we should give them to nurses, doctors, nursing homes, delivery people, truckers, those are the heroes of the economy, we are not paying more people to stay unemployed then to go back on the job. that is crazy and not fair to the people who are working in this country so hard and carried us through this terrible pandemic. host: your third question? guest: -- caller: donald trump did such a good economy, if he did so, why did we see more people standing on corners asking for change? host: more people asking for change, more money. guest: i do not know what the homeless numbers are. in 2019, i am not familiar with those statistics, but i always believed -- john f. kennedy used

to say that a good economy, it helps everybody, everybody at the bottom, the middle, we have a homeless problem in this country, no question about it. we do not want more inflation, we do not want to put the economy in reflect that recession -- -- the economy in recession. caller: thank you for taking my call. is it true or false, the xl pipeline, it brings to port arthur to texas, is that true or false? guest: i had a problem here, it does what? caller: the keystone pipeline, it takes a tar sands from canada to texas where it is refined and taken overseas to burn in the u.s.? guest: with the keystone pipeline, it brings -- we want north america to be energy independent.

we get up gas in canada. it is one of the major industries. transport the oil from canada and from north dakota all the way down to texas, so it can be distributed throughout the country and throughout the world, which is a good thing for the united states. rather than having all of the oil and gas from saudi arabia, now we are producing it in north america. caller: ok. it goes from port arthur to texas and then sold outside of the country? guest: some of it is and some of it goes to california, and maine. right now, we cannot the desk at the oil and gas from north dakota to boston massachusetts. boston has to rely on other countries for oil and gas but we have more of it than other country because we do not have the distribution chain. if you are concerned about the environment, which we are all are, we want clean air and water, pipelines are by far the

most environmentally sound way of transporting oil and gas rather than on trucks and trains. host: new york city, democrats nine, stephen moore in chicago, good morning. caller: good. i would like to ask mr. moore, why is he opposed -- as trump -- i am sick and tired of --

cleanup the mess -- host: i apologize, we had difficulty hearing you, but the essence of the question, they have to come into fix the errors of the public -- trump administration and george w. bush from -- if you want to respond. guest: with respect to trump, we had the great crises of the last 100 years with the pandemic. i did nothing any chairperson thanks trump caught the pandemic. -- bear person thanks trump caused the pandemic. that aside, i give trump high grades. he made mistakes with covid, no question about it, but he did

two things right. number one, he let the states make their decisions. joe biden has been the president last year, there is no doubt he would have shut down the american economy and in american economy would look like chicago. fortunately, we had states like texas and tennessee with republican governors who kept their economy open in a safe weight and that carried us through this. the second was the vaccine. one year ago, if you look this up, there was a article in the new york times, a long future article about donald trump lying to the american people, there was no way we would get a vesting in nine months, it was impossible, too much fda regulations and it takes too long to manufacture these drugs, it will take at least two or three years, stop lying to the american people, it will not be ready in nine months, and it was available in nine months and that is because -- she

deregulated, he allowed a lot of these fda regulations that would have held these things up, it was a spectacular achievement by donald trump and thanks to that, we now have an economy that is ready to roar and thing about the hundreds of thousands of lives that were saved in the united states and millions of lives around the world. it makes you proud to be an american the way that we were able to achieve this lifesaving vaccine that will save more lives than just about any government welfare program in the history of the world. host: time from -- for one more call. caller: good morning. in 1986, i was an intern at the heritage foundation. guest: i was there. caller: yes you are. -- yes you were. he mentioned it produces more oil, it is an amazing experience. i will tell you that the state

of new mexico relies 40% of its state income from oil and gas, $1 billion surplus prior to the pandemic. the energy policy by trump delivered, going in the direction -- you on the other hand, china is delivering a virus, thanks to china, delivering a virus, it changed everything across the country and we forgot the successes that we were experiencing. the second point i wanted to ask , the economic impact that 2 million illegal immigrants will have, they come across, they are good people are sure, 99% of them, but the problem is, they live on a four dollars a day and a lot do not speak english. what kind of cost is that for the average taxpayer in america?

i did not report to him, but he was an energetic man. he expressed ideas with enthusiasm and a smile. she gave that advice to walter williams and he never forgot it. when you smile with good ideas and when you have a good ideas, good ideas always were, share it with a smile and that is what he does. host: thank you, mike. guest: thank you for the kind words. i will deal with the border issue. we have to secure our border, everybody knows that. you're not doing a good job of that right now. trump made huge progress, but i will say this. i think immigration is so great for our country. i do believe it has to be legal immigration, but the hispanics and asians, the africans, people who come to this country are so amazing i'm of the hardest working people i have ever seen. we have a construction project

at our house right now, we are doing in addition, and it is a lithuanian, a russian, a mexican, they are the hardest working people, they are great people, they love america, they came for freedom. i am in favor of immigration. i think we need more immigration, but they have become legally, we have to yet -- get in control of our border. we need to get the brightest people to come to the country and share in our freedom and economic opportunity. i am optimistic. i'm optimistic about our great country. i think we can outcompete china, germany, france, every other country, let's just stop spending, let's do the rational things and i think we will have a great future. host: more details at freedomworks.org. our guest is stephen works, -- is stephen moore. joining us from chicago on this friday, stephen moore, thank you for being with us. guest: thank you for c-span.

host: to our opening question, the balance between security and access on capitol hill appeared (202) 748-8000 on the eastern or central time zone. (202) 748-8001 for those in the mountain and specific -- pacific time zone. i want to share statements from pat lahey, a democrat from vermont saying quote we must make sure we are making smart investments in our security based on lessons learned and it is important that the capitol, a potent symbol of democracy remains open and accessible to the public and does not feel like a militarized zone. this from congressman mike rogers, a republican from alabama. security of the capital complex must remain the responsibility of the federal civilian law enforcement. we cannot and should not militarized the security of the capital complex further. congress has held no hearings to

examine the creation of a quick reaction force. with that background, we will get to your calls. showing scenes around capitol hill. washington journal continued in a moment. >> on q&a, greg francis on his book, -- >> this is a story that depicts the plight of black farmers in america and in a large -- landmark case, and the case with black farmers, and with systemic discrimination, again black farmers it is estimated that the population of black farmers contributed to them leaving the farm as well as losing land and the familiar structure that goes all long way with being a farmer. >> greg francis, sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span q&a.

♪ >> washington journal continues. host: a live view of the u.s. capitol and the temporary barriers and parameters around the capitol put in place since january 6 and the house yesterday by a narrow vote, a $1.9 billion package. the vote to 13-212 with the --

inside the new york times and our question is, how do you balance security and access? let's go to catherine joining us from california, good morning. caller: good morning. i am kathleen and i want to share something about the people in america who will love to hear the story. i am a native california. i took my children on a trip to the capitol from hawaii, my daughter was born there, she is now 31, she was born in hawaii, and my son was 11, she was 7, so we went to the capital, we walked through the big rotunda and they both saw the two statues from the state of hawaii. and my seven-year-old daughter looked up to me and said, oh,

mom, i cannot believe it. she said can camejo may have the great is here and father damien, the father damien -- he is the father of the leopard in hawaii. and everyone in the big rotunda, you could hear -- i will tell you something, i believe in security, i believe in the right of security and at our borders to protect all of us and i think that as americans, of all colors, all creeds, hawaii had a lot of that there. i raised my children that way, they are very grateful and they are blessed to live in america. i think we should all be. however, our leaders have not been protecting us and they are now making huge deal about the

security there. but president trump was all about police, security, safety, and first responders. host: we will leave it there to get other voices. in the new york times, the national guard had a significant presence sent january 6 and according to the new york times, the national guard will be reimbursed by about $520 million. carl from new york city, good morning. caller: good morning. listen, this security thing, they are playing with it. if the republicans were confederates, then they would understand that we have to protect our country. host: we are getting feedback, sidewalk closed, access denied, some of the signs we are seeing across the capital, the metal

fencing and the concrete barriers in place, the debate in washington to fortify the capital but maintain the accessibility. lawmakers passing a $1.9 billion bill yesterday put together by rosa delauro, -- >> this is tailored to respond to january 6 and protect the capitol going forward. it contains $1.9 billion in emergency funding to reimburse the national guard and the district of columbia for their response. provide the capitol police with overtime pay, retention bonuses, equipment replacement and wellness and trauma support and ensure that the department of justice can prosecute every person who was -- who attacked law enforcement and ransacked this building. it provides bonuses and help desk help to custodial staff and renames the capital wellness

center in the memory of officer -- as recommended by the capital security review, the legislation protects the capital by providing resources, hardened windows and doors, construct security screening vestibules, and stone news cameras, provide specialized training, right control equipment and bought a camera for the capitol police appeared to augment the capitol police, the legislation establishes and funds a quick reaction force of national guard personnel, another recommendation of capital security review. this legislation bolsters security for members of congress with dedicated funding for enhanced security and threat assessment, coordinated security and upgrades to secure the security in district offices. host: that is representative rosa delauro and this is the security perimeter outside the capitol and eric from california

with a text message. capitol hill, nothing like it on planet earth creating a more perfect union adding we need to harden the capital still have it represent democracy, an idea the world needs. carmen from the bronx in new york, good morning. caller: good morning. a couple of years ago, i was channel surfing and saw you and that is why i watch c-span now. so thank you for what you do. host: thank you. caller: in terms of the capital security, i do not think it is possible to have the capitol open. one thing we have to remember is that january 6 happen four months ago, not four years, enough time has not transpired to where the security for the

members is 100% -- the reason why i say that is because -- in 2008 when her friends went into the capital -- capitol and they approached aoc -- they were stalking her. it shows a lack of security that they were able to do that. in terms of the republican voting against, republicans voting against january 6, 35 republicans voted with the democrats. half -- i think -- that was in

the paper that he wanted a commission and there were more investigations. host: we have to move onto another caller, but thank you for phoning in and thank you for being a worker c-span viewer. a republican from texas, among the members opposing the bill, this is what she had to say. >> in january, the speaker of the house it -- to review security from the house side of the capitol. following the events of january 6, this review is directed without even consulting house republicans or the senate. even though the review by the general began as a partisan

effort, members of the appropriations committee help to get things back on track and we can negotiate a funding agreement that could be supported by both parties in both chambers. that is why it is disappointing that we are now left with a bill before us. this is a one-sided solution that does not have buy-in from democrats in the senate. the bill we are considering today implements permanent recommendations for it -- before ongoing security assessments are complete to complete the multimillion dollar funds for future expenses at the capitol prior to knowing what is really needed and delays much and didn't reimburse since for agencies -- reimbursements that protected the capitol since january 6 like the national guard and the capitol police. it also provides $2 billion to establish a force within the d.c. national guard to respond to incidences out of the capital -- at the capital.

host: that is texas republican on the house floor, a live view of the u.s. capitol, before that, we go to paul in new york, ohio. security versus public access. how do you respond? caller: thank you. i'd have to look at most of the people in the capitol right now, a lot of them are hypocrites. they are concerned about protecting themselves spending millions and billions of dollars to provide security, but when it comes to the border, protecting us from people coming over illegally, they did not want to spend a cent charlie. they seem to be more caring about their own lives and their own protection than american people. i would like to see a few people for a change actually do that, which is right. you cannot have a house divided like this and for those people who are on the religious side, if you're going to make a change, they need to understand

-- these doctors -- host: thank you for the call, a live look of the u.s. capitol inside the house chamber appeared the is essentially in recess until monday, enjoy 14th. we are back in a moment.

host: without in part because of a memorial day break. the senate is back in session monday and about 10 minutes, more of your focus on security

versus access on capitol hill. we are dividing the lines recently, (202) 748-8000 for those in eastern half of the country, though southwest -- those out west (202) 748-8001. the fencing at the perimeter of the capital since january 6. good morning. . -- good morning. caller: these questions are funny and ridiculous. everybody knows that security needs to be about the capitol. republicans know it is their constituents so they have no fear. that it is a 50-50 question is nonsense. everybody in america, around the world knows why security needs to be around the capitol building. host: thank you. good morning mark. caller: good morning to you.

am i coming through okay? host: loud and clear. caller: what topic are we speaking about? host: we are asking about security on capitol hill. the house passing a $1.9 billion measure that would enhance security, republican saying no to the plan. how do you balance of access versus security for lawmakers? caller: number one, an example of germany who grows brussels sprouts. would not allow romanian immigrants to pick them up. i picked beans for a dollar a bag when i was eight years old. my great-grandfather was half black and half indian from traverse city, michigan. he married a norwegian.

my first job at 15 was $.85 per hour. my city was the most racist city ever. now it is being taken over by a different clique of people. i was watching a black gal, dearborn only has 3% black people but 40% of them get ticketed. host: we are going to provide two tweets from my rent, show me a 30 foot border wall and i will show you a 31 foot ladder and six foot deep tunnel. more wasteful spending, robust doors and windows in the capital, additional security cameras, retractable fencing and the creation of a rapid reaction force, protection for lawmakers and federal judges as well as funding to repay the capital fund -- capitol police. caller: talking about security,

they want the police before that that there was going to be a crowd showing up. the police force was down that day for some reason because of the bureaucracy. as far as balancing the budget. remember bill clinton when he came in, he raised taxes. he almost balanced the budget. he said every time i lower the taxes, more money came in. when it lower the taxes you put people to work. they pay more taxes. he said that. when he lowered the taxes he got more money. host: thank you for the call. good morning to you from sun city, california. caller: good morning steve. you may be too young to remember a rock group but young sebastian made a song that referred to you.

i am going to be visiting d.c. in september for the first time. i am hoping the fences are down. i want to see the majestic beauty of national -- of washington dc. i think there is a better way of doing it than military presence. thank you steve. i appreciate you. i will holler at you again. host: do not be a stranger. the hill with another aspect of the story. republican leaders on january 6 call to trump draw scrutiny in spite of her commission. for kevin mccarthy the race to move beyond generous sex is personal. he not only has his eyes set on the speakership after midterms, he was also the only lawmaker to speak directly to president trump in the midst of the attack on the capitol.

those facts are related to the context of the debate over the january 6 commission can the dynamics make him unique among republicans and leave him with a dilemma. to achieve this because gavel people need -- he will need the blessing of trump about revealing details of the phone call could put him in the dog house with the former president. the populate with republicans has made him a key maker from south exile. mccarthy insists that he would testify if called to do so by an independent investigative commission. roberto next in los angeles. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. here is why the commission should not be an issue, if you did something -- if you did nothing wrong, why would you not want to be investigated?

host: marshall in brooksville, florida, good morning. caller: on the capital security, we need to get our wall secured so we cannot have the problem. we need security at the capitol. what i saw on television is it looked like somebody opened the gate to let them in. i believe the democrats were behind some of the spirit nobody wants to investigate that that i know of. at the capital, security that is an important place to the united states. i do not understand why we did not have security before this, better security. host: thank you for the call. this is a text message from norma, "leave the fence up until

we know who, what, where, when, why." $1.9 billion supplemental spending bill would include $500 million to reimburse the national guard who have been in place since january 6. fencing along the capital at $350 million, a rapid response team at $200 million to harden doors and windows $160 million. for judges and the courts to protect them $175 million. $40 million to protect prosecutors. last call is gary in newport, kentucky. how do you balance security and access? caller: considering that this is the only time it has happened in a long time. i believe it is fine the way it is.

there is a breakdown in a lot of communications and stuff like that. there should be a commission to investigate because i think that there were other groups that perpetrated the thing to escalate things more. i agree with the guy from florida who stated that he thinks that other groups we know who they are, portland and seattle had a lot to do with her. host: we will leave it there. for your calls, comments and tweets we appreciate that. charlie sykes will join us in a moment from wisconsin, founder and editor at a large at the bulwark. we hope you stay with us. ♪ >> today at delaware senator chris coons and others will -- discuss investing in renewable energy in an event past year

that hosted at axios -- an event hosted at axios. >> coming up today, president biden and the south korean president will hold a joint news conference at the white house. live coverage at 5:00 eastern on c-span, online and c-span.org or listen live on the radio app. >> saturday on the communicators, we are talking about cancer culture with telecommunications analysts. >> my concern here is there is too much speech that we should agree with in the realm of the legitimate public debate that is stifled or canceled. >> cancel culture is saying expensive term that is used in a lots of range of concerns. i narrow it to questions, shame,

ostracism and more specifically, i am concerned about those areas where people are fired from their positions. >> what's of communicators with telecommunication analysts saturday at 6:30 eastern. -- watch the communicators with tele-communication analysts saturday at 6:30 eastern. >> american history tv on c-span3 explained that people and events that tell the american story. saturday at 2:00 eastern, a discussion about ruth bader ginsburg and the supreme court case that challenge the virginia military institute mail only admission policy -- male only admission policy. the details of an activist 1923 fight against the united daughters of the confederacy attempt to elect a desk erect a-- erect a black mammy statue.

on american artifacts explore the shaw memorial dedicated to civil war colonel robert shaw and the 54th infantry. on the presidency, a look at the george h.w. bush residential -- presidential library and museum. exploring the american story, watch american history tv. this weekend on c-span3. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us from wisconsin, outside of milwaukee is charlie sykes, founder and editor at large of the bulwark. thank you for being with us. guest: my pleasure. host: we have not talked to you since the developments of house

gop, liz cheney, voted out. what does that tell you about house republicans? guest: it tells me that doing donald trump's bidding is the alpha and omega of their political strategy, morality. the extraordinary thing about liz cheney is she is one of the most conservative members and the house of representatives. she voted on the trump agenda more than 90% of the time. whatever scorecard you look at, in terms of policy she is a solid and reliable conservative. she was thrown out, canceled from her leadership position for one reason only. she refuses to go along with the big lie about the election and whitewash january 6. with all of the fallout from the insurrection, the only republican member to face any

sanction is the one person who was willing to tell the truth. that says something about kevin mccarthy's big tent which is toxic. host: 35 house republicans rebuking kevin mccarthy, voting in favor of this commission. after leaving mccarthy said he would not support it. did that surprise you? guest: if i had to bet, i would have gone with 10 and 20. i had dave jelly on my podcast the day before. he was walking through what it meant to with a vote, the threat of loss of support that republican members would face. that is going to strengthen number. it was a significant review -- rebuke.

in part because he was an unreliable leader, he threw one of his own members under the bus who had negotiated this deal in good faith gotten significant concessions from the democrats. to have 35 republicans voted against leadership was significant. -- voting against leadership was significant. we need to look at the fact that 170 five republicans, 84% of the republican conference voted against a commission to look at the events of january 6. they should have been noncontroversial, -- this should have been noncontroversial. 84% of the republican caucus voted against it. that is a greater number than who voted to overturn the

election results on january 7. it is a glass half-full, half-empty situation. the number of votes willing to go along with the directives from the orange versailles is going up. host: let me get your reaction to what leader mccarthy said yesterday, speaking to cap -- reporters outside the capitol. [video clip] >> this commission that we have tried to work on, in that timeframe a officer got killed on good friday. she did not want to have the scope to include that as well. we are going to have four things happen. you have two committees doing the investigation, in two weeks we already have a report back. yet the architect of the capitol -- you have the architect of the

capitol giving $10 million to study it. we have the department of justice already arresting 445 people with probably another 100 coming. that is the work we want him to make sure that it never happens again. that those who participated should be held accountable and that we secure the capitol. the pelosi commission is politics. host: how do you respond to the house later -- leader? guest: he is incorrect. the scope of the commission was broadened to deal with the death of that other officer. kevin mccarthy knows what he is doing, he has made a calculation that he does not want to antagonize donald trump even if that means we might not get to the bottom of this. all of the other investigations are good and proper and should go forward aggressively.

on the eight nonpartisan, independent commission with subpoena power can answer the other questions. congressman carico -- katko walk through some of them. what did the president know and when? what were the decisions and actions the day of the insurrection? why was their late -- why was there a delay? until we get those answers, we do not know. the other thing that is interesting is how kevin mccarthy renovate when he was asked whether any of his members might have been responsible for this. the questions about the conduct of republican members who may have given tors. congressman mo brooks spoke on january 6 and seemed to be

fomenting the uprising. these are awkward and embarrassing for republicans. they have decided they are going to take a short-term political hit voting against a commission that the vast majority of americans support because they think they go along without it will come up with things that will be embarrassing to them and donald trump. which seems to be a perfect definition of putting your partisan agenda over your oath of office. and your responsibility to fend democracy and national security. host: our guest is charlie sykes, his work has been found on the new york times, los angeles times, other publications. he is the author of nine books including, "how the right lost its mind." let me get some historical perspective, you look at two or

one term presidents, jimmy carter on the democrat side and george h.w. bush on the republican side. what is different about donald trump and the influence he has within the republican party? guest: excellent question. there is no parallel for a former president to have the kind of a death grip on the political party. jimmy carter was not a kingmaker in the democratic party after he was defeated by ronald reagan. george h.w. bush was not a kingmaker. his son was later elected president. people did not go to kiss the ring. what is extraordinary about this, the republican party had a chance to take an offramp after the election. we supported the president when it came to policy, let's move on.

he does not have any more judges to appoint. he does not have any more taxes to cuts or regulations to cut -- to cut or regulations to cut. the republican party could have done that after the election, a much more dramatic chance right after january 6. for about five minutes it looked like they would take it. when kevin mccarthy gave his speech already suggested the president was responsible for the rioting. mitch mcconnell looked like he was prepared to take that offramp. they decided not to because they are afraid of the base. what you have in the republican party is not a leadership problem, it is a followership problem. the people who will lead the party have decided to keep their head down and do what the former

president bids. the party is stark. and does not moving on, developing its own agenda. not figuring out a way to deal with the political moment in a creative way. they can beat reactionary into might win a election -- be reactionary and might win election but they are right now eight subsidiary of trump aide inc. -- a subsidiary of trump inc.. host: dust almost trump run in 2024 -- does donald trump run in 2024? guest: i think it does. -- he does. under the constitution, nothing would prevent him from running again and people said that was crazy.

it is a possibility. at the moment, he is sitting down, going if i get into this race, i will get the nomination. there is no republican who will beat him. he will clear the field with the possibility of maybe liz cheney. now whether he could be elected as a more difficult question. you have the momentum. on the republican side you have the ego. why not? host: southampton, pennsylvania, john republican side you are on the light with charlie sykes -- line with charlie sykes. caller: put me in the camp that does not want trump as the nominee. i did vote for him twice. i like josh hawley or ron desantis as the favorites.

as far as the republican party going forward, we have to make some changes. republicans have to stop -- two african americans and other minorities. we should be treating everybody equally. it wins but no extra votes and alienates the base -- no extra votes and alienates the base. host: let's get a democrat voice then your reaction. caller: hello charlie, i watch you a lot. i have my own conspiracy theory. i believe that they are following trump not only because of the base because of the

dictatorship that i think they want to have now. is that why this is going on? do they want him to take over as a dictator? guest: ed is more complicated than that. spineless nurse as an explanation will be correct. go with the easiest, most obvious explanation. what is interesting is this duality among republican leaders. republican leaders do not want to antagonize donald trump. they do not want to be criticized by him, they want him to raise money. they will do what he wants. they want to pretend that they are not paying much attention. this is a flashback to 2015.

republicans are always hoping that someone else would do something with the donald trump problem. i do not want to go up against him but the prospect of bringing him to the white house is nightmarish. do you think mitch mcconnell wants to deal with another four years of donald trump? given his conduct between the election and inauguration, what he wanted to do with the fbi, consider doing with the upbeat -- with the military, this is the nightmare scenario. republican leaders understand this. they are too cynical to do something about it. they are waiting for someone else to do something about it or for something to come along. they want power, they want to survive and they're hoping that things take care of themselves.

that is a dangerous strategy. host: which leads us to a call from the american renewal, in part, "when our democratic republic forces a conspiracy -- forces of conspiracy, despotism to arrest, it is for citizens to arrive collectively in defense. we want to categorize -- catalyze an american renewal or -- to reimagine a party dedicated to ideals." what does that mean? guest: it is a group of prominent but former republican officials who say what we are facing is not politics as usual. we need to stop thinking of politics in the right and left continuum but talk about rule of law, truth, democracy. if cannot get that from the

republican party, we need to consider forming a new party. even though i signed on to that, i think it is wonderful that they are doing this, i did write a piece that this is naive. perhaps it is tilting at windmills to think at this point the republican party can be salvaged. you asked me about the decision to cancel and purge liz cheney and what that said. what it said is that republicans who care about truth, democratic norms have no place in the party. the party could not have sent a clear message -- more clear message. liz cheney, despite all of her loyalty, needs to be thrown out of leadership while people like matt gaetz and marjorie taylor green and paul gosar are members

in good standing. it is time for people to say that this has gone crazy. we are headed on a dangerous path. the call asked about a dictatorship, i do not know whether they want a dictatorship , but you are seeing the rise of an authoritarian if those that we have seen in other countries that is disturbing. a willingness to engage in violence that ought to be disturbing to people of both parties. that is what was disturbing about the vote about the commission. that was an extraordinary moment in american history with the use of violence to attack our congress to overturn a presidential election. if we do not come to grips with that we will see more incidents like that. we are seeing this undermining

of democratic norms that might lead to more political violence. i am concerned about it. i would urge people to read the piece in the washington post this morning and the piece in the atlantic saying that you need to understand there are more people out there willing to use political violence to get what they want. it is time for people to say no. liz cheney tried to do that, look what happened. host: do you worry by creating this that you will create a division within the gop only giving an easier path to the democrats? guest: at a certain point you have to do what you have to do. you have to take the correct moral position. it is no longer a binary choice. at this point the republican party does not appear to be ready to be a responsible governing party.

i say this as somebody has worked with republicans most of my professional life. you were not seeing a party that is behaving in a responsible manner. when we are talking about in our deliberations of forming a new party, the point i made is whatever i -- we come up with has to be flexible, has to be willing to support principled republicans when necessary. it needs to run third-party candidates, political orphans. there'll be occasion to support moderate democrats as well. the stakes are huge. host: you mentioned the piece from the former speechwriter from george w. bush of able at washington post, with that, "the

threat of violence out infuses gop politics, we should be afraid." joining us from virginia on the republican line. good morning. caller: i want to know what trump knew and when. i want to know what mccarthy was told or was said. i am not only embarrassed but angry. i want to take my grandchild to the capital safely. and teacher you do not come through the windows, you go in lawfully and enjoy the capito l. host: thank you sylvia. guest: i agree. those are the basic questions. i think that january 6 was one of the most extraordinary events in american history. there are elements of the republican party who want to memory hole it.

they want to erase the memory or engage in revisionist history. ron johnson is our senior senator in wisconsin, he is engaging in cataloging when he says it was mostly peaceful. we saw what happened. there are pictures of what happened. the points are right. kevin mccarthy has something he does not want to tell this commission. kevin mccarthy had conversations with the president. we need to know more about them. i think that would shed light on the president of the united states conduct and whether it contributed to what happened. there are a lots of unanswered questions about the delay. how something like this would happen. and whether or not the president was sitting in the white house, cheering it on. why it took so long for him to

call his supporters off? host: sharing next, bloomington, indiana. good morning. caller: i feel all of this talk about will he run again? if he runs, will he win? it is ignoring the elephant in the room, he has multiple criminal investigations against him. can some of the run while indicted? guest: yes. caller: what if they are guilty? guest: the only thing that will stop him is a conviction. i do not think people ought to be under allusions of this. i know this sounds cynical but all of these charges will not weaken his hold on the republican party. republicans went along with everything else and see him as a victim. there are other things that could intervene that would make

a candidacy impossible or illegal. i do not know the answer to the question, can a convicted felon run for president of the united states? serve as president of the united states? i do not know the answer. as a country, we never had to deal with that. we would always assume that there were standards. that there would be guardrails. that no longer exist with the republican party. host: dave in las vegas, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to make a comment on douglas, i am a veteran. i served in the air force. they ask if you want to overthrow the united states government. trump tried to do that. i do not know why the attorney

general tried to overthrow the innate states government, the attorney general should bring donald trump on charges now. he is not above the law. that is my statement. those republicans without back tim are like communists.

a lot depends on turnout and motivation. the feedback i am getting right now, is even though the republican hard-core base likes what ron johnson is doing including the conspiracy theories and all of the misinformation about january 6 and vaccines. they are okay with that. if he does run, that is all the motivation the democrats need will -- will need to have a massive turnout in milwaukee, madison. there is a concern that if ron johnson runs, so many democrats will come out and mowed -- and

motivated, it puts trump on the ballot. it would swamp other republicans. there was a lot a push and pull here whether or not johnson should state in the race. there are other republicans who are beginning to maneuver for running innate republican party. nobody knows at this point, nobody knows. host: joining us from kansas, good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am a retired oil and gas operator in kansas. when i came home from college, i ran for a committee membership and when i was 20 to was elected county republican chairman.

i could get into the inside track when i was young. when i got older, i decided i would be better off with someone else there rather than myself. i am looking at a republican presidential task force certificate. i would like viewers to think back and remember when we had 14 candidates on the stage. i have small hands. i am not running for government. i think the republican party will do just fine. we are going to have to take a fearless inventory as to how we are going to run our business.

and get serious about what is going on. host: thank you for the call. let me follow-up up on your earlier point, "mr. sykes said that if trump was convicted of federal crimes, it would not weaken the control of the republican party. corporations donating to the spot it must be held accountable by other consumers of their product. that is all they understand is sums of money." guest: here is the problem, the fulcrum of political campaign cash is no longer corporations. it is a grassroots. somebody like marjorie taylor greene can raise $4 million in the first quarter. this is how politics has changed. that grassroots base which goes

along with the sort of thing can generate a huge amount of money which can mean the corporate money is less important. one point about getting the republican party's house in order, the biggest tell ought to be that last year at the republican national convention the party decided to not have a platform. platforms might be overblown. for a political party to said that we do not have a set of beliefs we want to articulate except whatever donald trump wants. that was a telling moment. it says that we are his, we are more cold than party -- cult than party. right now they have a clinical idea, which is no, we will

oppose everything. that might be enough to win midterms but long-term, what is the prospect of a party that has no principles? not to mention a party that seems intent on alienating minorities, women, young people, demographically long-term prospects are grim. i know republicans made some inroads with african-american and hispanic voters. long-term these trendlines are dangerous. the longer they link themselves to donald trump, the harder it will be to back out. for them to say that we are not this racial identity party that we have become. host: this is from our regular

viewer, jody, who is saying in four years there be enough young americans who will register to vote who will learn the truth. investigations commenced to overcome any residual trump. i want to follow up on a point with the organization you're involved with, american renewal. "a much more useful approach would be for republicans to formally break from the gop and announced they will back democratic candidates. if you prioritize democracy above all, it should not be hard to back a small d democrats, even one who is a liberal. it is a waste of time to talk about small -- third-party efforts." guest: the only way a party is going to go, is for them to lose elections. i saw an analysis that apartheid

needs to lose three consecutive elections and republicans do not think they have been crushed. i understand the argument. many of us are still conservatives. we still have the beliefs that we had before, trump came down the golden escalator. we are objecting to trump's character, his authoritarianism and lies does not mean we want to jump from one tribe to another. i think this country needs to have more than one rational party. does that mean, occasionally, many of us will vote for democrats. i voted for joe biden last november. i would vote for him again if it was him and trump in 2024. there needs to be a place for

people who are not locked into this binary choice, democrat and republican. i understand this argument going back and forth. i think that perhaps it is time to break with the republican party. it is hard to let go sometimes. when you look at what is happening to the republican party on the state levels, it is more extreme, crazy. the crackpots, conspiracy theorists, those people have one-- won. some of the people who signed onto that op-ed letter, i applied what they are doing. they had a line where they said the ouster of liz cheney did not mean the fight was over. they said the fight for the soul of the republican party is beginning. i am sorry, that is wrong. that fight is over. the conspiracists won that.

that is something we need to come to grips with. all of those trends are accelerating. host: as -- guest: as you and i are speaking, one republican senator after another is reversing the position on the question of this commission. these are senators who said we need a commission, i am in favor of a commission, we need to get to the truth, one after another is hacking off. -- backing off and following the lead from mar-a-lago. host: the letter he is referring to in the organizations calling for the american renewal but this is the website. mary says, "charlie there is no republican party, no gop only g qp." we go to summer town, tennessee, democrats line.

caller: i am an old-style liberal democrat. i do not like the new neoliberal democratic party. stanford university did a study that set of over 600 riots last summer with billions of dollars in damage and looting and arson, does instead, that needs to be investigated. if you need a commission, it would not be a real commission without getting to the truth of that. a lot of those people who were arrested were being released. the one right supposedly by republicans -- riot soberly bite republicans, shut down the capital, our constitution, those people are being held in consignment in dce gulags -- dc

gulags, solitary confinement. i used to be a democratic but i cannot support -- as far as authoritarian, the dictators are the democrats -- as far as authoritarian, the dictators are the democrats. host: let's get the response. guest: that is the marjorie taylor greene line there. tell us the reason for people who assaulted the capitals were supposedly republicans, what you mean supposedly -- do you mean supposedly? they were carrying trump flex, they were trump supporters. there were not just trespassing. they were engaging in violence. they attacked cops, used their flex to beat cops. five people died. you've seen the account of officer michael who had heart failure as the repeating him and people were saying to grab his

gun and he had to plead that he had children. that is nonsense. it is also nonsense that they are being held in solitary confinement. they are getting due process, they are being held accountable for their act of violence. whether riots -- were there riots around the country pleasure? i have no problem condemning that street violence. that is a separate issue. we need to separate it. i'm not minimizing what happened in portland, oregon. an assault on a starbucks is different than a assault on the congress of the united states and then attempt to overthrow the constitutionally mandated counting of electoral college votes. we can do both at the same time. to conflate the two is

dishonest. one was an assault on the foundations of our constitutional republic. the other is violations of law and they need to be dealt with in that way with due process. the notion that we cannot go after the 9/11 insurrectionists because there were people who engaged in rioting in kenosha, wisconsin. that is inconsistent. it is bs to suggest that somehow the rioters on january 6 are the real victims. it is part of this revisionist history, this is being pushed by people like marjorie taylor greene and others. if it takes hold on the right, it will encourage more bad behavior. this is the concern that january

6 is ongoing, that is an ongoing radicalization and acceptance of violence as part of our politics. host: our guest is the founder and editor of the bulwark which is what? guest: we are and online publication, founded about two years ago. we think of ourselves as independent, center-right, centerleft place where we tell you what we think. we not tribal -- we are not tribal. we are not afraid to take on trump and trumpism. i do not think that will be afraid to take on the liberalism of the right or left going forward. even after the departure of trump, we realized fight against the crazy is not over. host: where does the name come from? guest: the bulwark, of

democracy. it is a seafaring term, the bulwark on a shift, somebody needs to stand to thwart the waves that threatened to wash over us. we think of ourselves as able work of rationality -- able work -- a bulwark of rationality. host: in california, you are on with charlie sykes. caller: mr. jefferson was apparently crazy 30 said true liberty must be referred from time to time with the blood of tyrants and patriots. we have tyrants, a parliamentary system and the executive branch is supposed to have that our laws are faithfully executed.

they are collecting in an invasion of people we do not recognize that letting in -- they are letting in innovation of people we do not recognize. they are globalists. host: thank you. guest: there you are seeing the normalization of violence. citing the board. whose blood we talking about? -- blood. whose blood are we talking about? we are 200 years of the experiment of a constitutional order that is not perfect but has gotten us through these conflicts. now we are talking about going back to the blood of tyrants. using immigration as the excuse. i favor a strong border. i thought the wall was silly.

i favor immigration reform. this notion that we are being invaded. to have problems? we have a problem. we need to deal with that. we are not being invaded. we are a country of immigrants. let's make distinctions between legal and illegal immigrants. we are finding a way to regularize that. this fear mongering from the time that trump came down the golden escalator, talking about mexican rapists. all this does is stoke division that leads to the suggestion that we need to engage in violence. for people who through words along -- around like that, whose blood are we talking about? who do you want to kill? that is the alternative. having a process where we have

elections and the loser acknowledges the legitimacy of that election because that is the way a democracy works. once the losers refuse to acknowledge that and undermined the of an election, what is the alternative? we are not a nation of -- if we are not a nation of laws and don't follow the constitution, if we try to overturn those elections, then what do we have left? force. i'm increasingly worried about it, and because like that are not terribly reassuring. host: david, you get the last word from new york city. a quick question for charlie sykes? caller: hi, charlie. i'm a democrat from manhattan. hopefully it is not because it speaks of biden and wisconsin as a bulwark, pun definitely intended. biden visited wisconsin in about

march, i believe, and in the absence of any polling, like narrative polling, what is your sense on the ground and with -- wisconsin about how his townhall was received, and how is he being perceived in the state of wisconsin? host: thank you, david. charlie sykes. guest: i cannot tell you at the moment how he's being perceived on the ground in wisconsin or anywhere else around the country. his approval ratings are relatively robust. there are not many who wish they voted for donald trump or which she was not the president right now for them if biden 60's and is able to keep his popularity up, he will do well in wisconsin. if the economy turns south or if there are other controversies or perception of the democrats have radically overreached, he will

be hurt in wisconsin. but we are a very polarized state, and i'm not sure things like town halls or the passing events of a new cycle really do all that much to change -- of a news cycle really do all that much to change the dynamic. we are all on the razors edge. host: charlie sykes, the founder and editor at large of the bulwark. please come back again. guest: anytime, steve. host: this is a headline this morning from "the new york times." israel and hamas accepting a cease-fire. the hill.com in this warning a short while ago from the israeli prime minister, warning of more force if hamas uses rockets following the cease-fire. the israeli prime minister warning that that force would be necessary if rockets are put into israeli territory. he clearly is an issue that will come up with a white house briefing with jen psaki. we will have live coverage on the c-span networks.

the house is in recess, back on june 14, which is friday. the senate is back in session on monday. we hope you enjoy the rest of the week and a great weekend. "the washington journal" is back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m. eastern time. enjoy the rest of your friday. announcer: coming up live on c-span, in about an hour, a white house coronavirus response briefing with dr. anthony fauci, rochelle walensky, and others. president biden will present the medal of honor to a retired united states army colonel for conspicuous gallantry during the

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