buckeye broadband supports c-span as a public service, along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> sunday on q&a, attorney greg francis on his book just harvest. >> this is a story that depicts the plight of black farmers in america in a landmark case and the following case, which dealt with systemic discrimination by the usda against like farmers that decimated the population of black farmers, contributed to them leaving the farms and

losing land and the familial structure that goes along with being a farmer. >> greg francis, sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern, on c-span's q&a. continues. host: we are back with diana buttu, an analyst with the institute for middle east understanding. she is here to discuss with us the recent violence between the israelis and palestinians, and the cease fire. good morning. guest: good morning. thanks for having me. host: can you give our viewers an understanding of what the institute for middle east understanding does? guest: we try to provide individuals around the world with information about what is happening in palestine and what is happening with palestinians so people will get a better understanding of how it is they can actually be able to play a

role to end this 73-year dispossession of palestinians. host: do you know where the institute gets its funding? guest: the institute is a u.s.-based organization. host: how did you get involved with them? you are a former spokesperson for the palestine liberation organization. how did you get involved with the institute? guest: i was never a spokesperson for the palestine liberation organization, i was a legal advisor to the palestine liberation organization. i was advising during the period of negotiations and there were negotiations that were happening between the years 2000 to 2007. i ended up leaving my position and working for the palestinian president because i did not believe a negotiated settlement as possible.

i still don't believe a negotiated settlement as possible. as a result, somebody who believes it is much more important for people to understand precisely what is happening in palestine. what it means to live under military rule, what it means to be somebody who has been dispossessed of their home and homeland. so that people understand and get a better sense of what it is the united states' role is in this as well. host: you are currently in the mideast. can you tell us where you are and what you are seeing there right now? guest: i am both a canadian citizen, but i am also a citizen of israel, but a palestinian. in 1948, with the nekba, the ethnic cleansing of palestine, 25% of the palestinian population remained. my parents were two of those who remained.

by virtue of them remaining, i also hold israeli citizenship. i am sitting in the northern city of haifa. although it is quiet now, we have been seeing serious mob riots that in just a few days ago, in which we saw groups of jewish moms coming around -- jewish mobs smashing property, in some cases trying to drag people out of their homes, and chanting "death to arabs." it is quiet now, but the problem is i don't think it is a quiet that is going to last. host: i assume when you mean quiet you are talking about this current cease fire. don't expect the current cease fire to hold? guest: i'm talking not only about the current, what people refer to as the cease fire, but the city in which i am in right

now. the reason i don't think either of these are going to hold is because what people are terming the cease fire is not really a cease fire. israel is maintaining a blockade over the gaza strip, it is routinely still shooting palestinians by air and by sea and by land, and given this and given the fact we have not addressed this measure has not addressed the underlying denial of freedom of palestinians, i don't think it is going to hold. similarly, where i am back right now in a city, i don't think that it is going to remain quiet for very long. this is because this has been a government that has actually worked to inflame people and to incite people with everything from having ministers say we should have our heads chopped

off, having ministers in the government who say that our mothers are snakes, to now embracing a political party that openly calls for ethnic cleansing of palestinians. i don't think by saying it is ended that it is actually ended. i think the only way we are going to see an actual and is that if there is -- actual end is if there is international pressure to hold israel to account for denying palestinians freedom and taking away their homeland. that is the only way we are going to see actual calm. host: for our viewers who have not been following this issue, can you explain to us what the heart of the dispute between the palestinians and the israelis actually is? guest: well, in 1948 there was a place called palestine. there was a scientist movement

that came in -- zionist movement that decided they were going to build a state in place of palestine. they ethnically cleansed 75% of the palestinian christian and muslim population and replaced it with the jewish population. this 75% have still never been able to return to their homes, making it the longest and largest refugee crisis we have seen in history. we see today -- i can give it to you in a personal example. my father was one of those individuals who remained. he was nine years old at the time. zionist forces came into his town, they kicked his family out of his town, took over his home, and turn him into a refugee overnight. he has never been able to go

back to his town, he has never been able to reclaim his property, and he has lived in israel as a second-class citizen. his older sister, she fled in 1948 and was never able to return back to palestine. she was born here, she was raised here, she got married here, she had her first child here, and she ended up dying in a refugee camp in jordan, always dreaming of coming back to palestine. but we have seen is this process of israel effectively getting rid of palestinians and replacing them with jewish israelis from around the world. any jewish person from around the world can emigrate, yet palestinians who have a lineage, a heritage, culture, are not allowed to return. that is the core of it. since then we have seen more and more attempts by israel to

expand its boundaries. this is why you hear things like the occupied palestinian territories, because not content with taking over our country in 1948, in 1967, 19 years later, they took over the remaining part of the country and now see there are palestinians living under israeli military rule, meaning they are denied any citizenship, they are not citizens of any state, and yet living under israeli the luke perry rule. it is these areas you are constantly hearing about -- the west bank and gaza strip -- where israel is besieging them or taking land to build israeli-only settlements. this has effectively been a situation in which israel is trying to take over palestinian land and put israelis in their

place. effectively kicking us out and ethnically cleansing palestine of palestinians. host: let's let some of our viewers get involved in this conversation. if you want to take part, we are going to open up regional lines. if you are in the eastern or central time zone, your telephone number will be (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, telephone number will be (202) 748-8001. you're going to open up a special line for those of you outside the united states. for those of you outside the united states can call in at (202) 748-8002. keep in mind you can always text at (202) 748-8003, and we are always reading on social media at twitter and on facebook. let's start with kenny, who is calling from wilson, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning.

i think it is great you all are having this conversation. i think this is the first time. i'm not going to say anything anti-semitic, so please don't cut me off. i know how you are when you speak of the jewish people. i am talking about the rich jews , like rupert murdoch, who owns your station. it is a shame how they own our politicians and everything, on both sides, the republicans and democrats. this lady is right on the money for what she is saying. netanyahu was true's body, and prudent, all of them was together. netanyahu is corrupt. we have another trump over there running israel now. it seems like our politicians areit is a shame what america hs

done when it comes to israel. will was here about the palestine issue rockets, their land has been taken. suppose somebody did that to you. we need to have a debate on the spirit i know rupert murdoch is in the background. host: we will stop him there, we will let you respond. rupert murdoch does not own c-span. there is no ownership of c-span by any persons involved in this conflict. i will let you respond. guest: i do not hear everything use -- he said. host: he said it was good that we are having this conversation about what is going on in the middle east. do you think that is something

that america should be talking and thinking about more? guest: there is a doctrine of misconception that somehow the united states is an honest broker or neutral broker. that is not the case, it is israel's enabler. the united states gives israel $3.8 billion per year and money. -- in money. they just signed over $735 million, that could be going to united states taxpayers, fixing up infrastructure. not just a question of them providing money, but all of the money provided is with exemptions and the united states gives israel paramedics support

-- diplomatic support. we have often heard there is no daylight between the united states and israel, what in effect the event sites is a is that we will stand by israel no matter what israel does. it is imperative for americans to understand their role in this. this is not a question of being an honest broker or state neutral, they are funding this. without that money and diplomatic support you would see a very different response by israel. you would see that israel would be attempting to abide by international law. if we saw a robust system of economic sanctions against israel or people boycotting

israel we would not continue to see israel being able to flatten buildings in the gaza strip and drop bought -- bombs on the heads of children languishing in refugee camps and open-air prisons. i am glad that we are having a conversation about the u.s.'s role. host: let's talk to mohammed from los angeles, california. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i am sympathetic to the palestinian cause. you are sitting in your home and overnight, they kick you out and take over your home. people should take that into perspective. this happened in 1948. since then the laws of european nations, arab nations, united states have helped the palestinian people. there has been corruption within

the palestinian authority. they took on a reign of terror, hijacking planes, killing israeli athletes in the munich olympics. you cannot justify what happened with killing other jews. in los angeles, new york, palestinians are attacking jews walking down the street, having dinner on the sidewalk. this is not going to help with palestinian cause. during world war ii over 6 million jews were killed by the nazis from poland, germany. the jews got back on their feet, jews keep getting kicked out of nations but today they run the world. 20 million in population. in the united states you have a powerful israeli lobby. no president in the elected

congress will come against israel because apac will destroy them. we do not have for the palestinians such organization. all of the money thought the rp and nations for the last seven years have given to the palestinian organizations have gone towards corruption. host: go ahead and respond. guest: it is interesting on the one hand he is talking about anti-semitism and making anti-semitic remarks. i can speak about what is going on with palestinian authority, i am not based in los angeles, i do not know what is going on in los angeles. when it comes to the money that has come into the palestinian authority, this is money that has come in in order to mask the occupation, not and their

occupation. we do not need the money coming in from the europeans and others. what we need is political support. two final and israel -- to finally end israel's military rule. we hear these comes of allegations of corruption that we are not entitled to be free. there is corruption inference france, i do not think anybody would say that the french are not entitled to be free. the core of it is that for more than seven decades palestinians have been living under a system of oppressive israeli rule. either we have been living within that oppressive or under is really boots in our homeland or kicked out of our homeland. either way we have been a nation

that israel has destroyed. the focus should be on palestinian liberation and allowing us to return to our homeland. rather than all of these other excuses people are funding for us to not be free -- finding for us to not to be free. if we had as much focus on palestinian liberation as we are on allegations of corruption, we would see a free palestine. these are methods used very much to distract then liberate. host: what is the role of hamas in palestine and the relationship between that group and the palestine authority? guest: it is complicated. hamas is a political party, movement, that is largely based in the gaza strip. it is a palestinian political party which means it has people who supported across the

spectrum -- support it across the spectrum. the other political party is largely based in the west bank. over-the-counter -- over the past 15 years there has been a split between the two. in the gaza strip we have hamas leading. relationships between these movements have nothing great -- not been great. just before the latest is where the attack, there was an agreement on the part of both political parties to come together and hold elections. we have not had elections in 15 years. it ends up that the palestinian president canceled elections. in the aftermath of this latest attack on the gaza strip it remains to be seen what the

relations between those parties are. it is up to palestinians to choose who their leaders are, representatives are. it is not up to the international community. it is not up to israel, we are the ones who have the right to determine who it is that represents us. it is not up to anybody else. host: let's talk to joe from plainville, michigan. good morning. are you there? i think we lost joe. let's go to maria from savannah, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. this is an interesting program and i am god to see it. i went to college, there was a gentleman from palestine who i

befriended. he called me one evening and said turn on the tv, i turned it on. there was a woman throwing stones at a police officer, elderly lady. he said that is his grandma. i said are you kidding? now he was worried about her because of what was going on between the israelis and palestinians. he was a fine gentleman. i feel for him because here he is, far away from palestine in milwaukee, wisconsin and he is going through these changes because of what is happening in his homeland. when i was in grad school in boston, there was a young lady who was jewish. i remember the day she called and said that someone in a hotel

was killed by palestinians who were against the israelis for what is happening in palestine. i got that viewpoint. it has made a big difference that we are learning about these things. it will make a big difference in everybody's life if they can understand. if they do nothing but pay for peace, it would be helpful. donating to a cause is even more important. i wanted to know -- i wanted you to note that there are americans who are interested in this and i've got that they are doing the show and that you're a part of it. informing us as to what you feel is going on. host: respond please diana. guest: i appreciate your comment and support. i appreciate the fact that you are on this journey of learning and listening, i think it is

vital that people understand just the role the united states is playing. we are in a place where we are much more global than we were even a few decades ago. just recently with the pandemic, we can see how we are all interlinked. to be able to understand the roles that individual americans can play to secure palestinian liberation. it is very key and important. as who believes in supporting the movement to boycott israel, to push for economic sanctions be placed on israel until such time as palestinians are able to live freely. host: one of our social media followers wants to ask you, "do you believe in eight two state solution -- a two state solution?"

before you answer explain what that means. guest: good question. do i believe in one? no. the two state solution, initially in the early 70's, as i mentioned israel took over palestine, 70 8% of palestine in 1948 -- 78% of palestine in 1948. there many areas were the west bank being controlled by the journey ends and gaza strip controlled by the egyptians. in 1967, israel militarily occupied the west bank and gaza strip. since 1967 there has been calls for a two state solution, israel

will remain in control of that 78% they took in 1948 and palestinians will create a state on those parts of historic palestine that were occupied in 1967. that is in effect what people are talking about. all of u.s. and european diplomacy has been based on this concept of a two state solution. for more than three decades, closer to four decades. countries are think that there needs to be a two state solution. you see this talked about in u.n. resolutions. i was one of the individuals who participated in the negotiations to finally end the military rule over the west bank and gaza strip.

in order to create this solution, independent state of palestine. i know that you believe in the -- i no longer believe in it for a number of reasons. being involved in those negotiations, had this been about drawing a line or boundary, it would have been a long time ago. that is not what this is about. what has become key and essential is what happened in 1948 and that is ethnic cleansing. instead of focusing on creating a small life that palestinians can call a state we should be looking to address the root cause of why it is that palestinians are not free.

they were kicked out of their homeland. we should be focused instead on the palestinian liberation and the idea of one state where individuals across have equal rights, irrespective of religion. even if there were to be a two state solution, there were not the and independent palestinian state. i said that because in the territory called the west bank, israel has built over 150 settlements that house close to three quarters of a million israeli settlers. you cannot unscramble an egg. these settlements are scattered throughout the territories. to be able to say that we are going to uproot these settlers is a fiction.

it was virtually impossible to take 8000 settlers out of the gaza strip in 2005. you can only imagine what will happen if there is an attempt to take out 750,000. there's never been international pressure on israel to end settlement construction, expansion or reverse construction and expansion. to bring settlers out of the settlements. it has been the opposite. there is a large and growing movement of people who are saying that the idea of the two state solution is dead, it died a long time ago and we should be focusing on rights and making sure that all individuals have rights, living across the

spectrum from the river to the sea. it is not just me saying this. there are israeli human rights organizations, international human rights organizations who are calling this a system of apartheid. human rights watch came out with a report calling this a system of apartheid and that the only way to address this is by putting into place a system of mechanisms and measures that will begin to hold israel like -- israel to account. i do not believe a two state solution is possible or ideal. i believe we should be focusing on bringing back palestinian refugees. focusing on the idea of justice and not just conflict management. host: let's see if we can squeeze in one more call.

keith calling from virginia, good morning. caller: i am listening. i have a few questions. she mentioned the billions of dollars going to israel, she said it could be used for taxpayers here. what about obama giving pallets or cash to iran in the middle of the night? the left is supposed to be so tolerant yet they seem so anti-israel. the rest of the jihad squad, they are for lgbt and words right yet these countries will kill homosexuals and do not give women rights. i want her vision on that and the hypocrisy. host: i think we lost him.

i think his question was around lgbtq rights in the middle east? he was rambling. guest: i'm not sure i understand the question. host: he was rambling about lgbtq rights. let's wrap here. thank you for your time. we want to thank you for being with us this morning and explain what is going on in the middle east. she is with the institute of middle east understanding. ♪

>> c-span's washington journal. everyday we take your calls on the news of the day and discuss policy issues that impact you. coming up sunday morning, critical race theory and school curriculum with assistant professor of education chanelle wilson. american enterprise institute resident ian rowe. the future of u.s.-russian relations. watching c-spans'washington journal on sunday morning, can join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments and tweets. -- where you get podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back with a distinct fellow at the council former relations and former special envoy for israeli-palestiniago