hearing on the federal reserve role in regulating the financial system followed by a senate judiciary subcommittee ways to prevent gun violence with safe gun stores laws. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government, funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? it is way more. >> comcast is partnering with a thousand community centers for wi-fi, so students in low income families can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports c-span as a public service, give you a front row seat to democracy. >> this morning on "washington journal," the hill reporter marty johnson talks about the status of the police reform bill

in congress. and we will recognize the one-year anniversary of george floyd's death with lisa cylar barrett from the naacp legal defense and educational fund. and later, buffalo grove, illinois, chief of police steve casstevens joins us to discuss current challenges facing law enforcement. ♪ host: good morning. tuesday, may 25, 2021, first anniversary of george floyd's death at the hands of a minneapolis police officer. last month, that officer was found guilty of murder. today the george floyd justice in policing act awaits senate action, and republicans and democrats are in talks about bipartisan policing reform. we want to hear from you about what has changed and what happened in the past year. how george floyd's story has impacted your outlook on race and policing. phone lines are regional this

morning. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8001 for the mountain or pacific time zones. you can send us a text this morning, (202) 748-8003. include your name and where you're are from. otherwise, catch up with us on social media, on twitter at @cspanwj and on facebook. a very good tuesday morning. you can start calling in now. we begin with the minneapolis hometown paper, the star tribune the lead story on their website this morning, a year later, families of those slain by police want lasting change. the star tribune, also in their print edition, especial section on the legacy of george floyd's life and the story of his death at the hands of a police officer. headlines there, a year of reckoning, white leaders

committed to change, memories. and the entire front page of this morning's "usa today" devoted to this, including an interview with george floyd's family members, how they have struggled in the past year. george floyd's family set to meet with president biden today at the white house to mark the anniversary. the lead story, relatives of those killed by police call for reform. we continue to watch the developments with the bipartisan negotiations to come up with a compromise police reform bill. here was yesterday in the white house briefing room. jen psaki was asked about the status of the negotiations. [video clip] >> let me first say that the president is still very much hopeful that he will be able to sign the george floyd justice in policing act into law. and we are, of course, very closely engaged with the

negotiators, while also giving them room to work. this past friday, the president spoke with senator booker. and senator scott has publicly said the key is for us to keep making progress. we are going to keep supporting those efforts. i would say it is hard for me to assess from here where we have seen progress made. certainly, the tragic death of george floyd has unfortunately elevated into the public eye, thanks to the reporting from many of you, the need to put reforms into place, the need to rebuild trust in communities, and we are certainly hopeful that that activism, that engagement will help move this legislation across the finish line. host: jen psaki in the white house briefing room yesterday. much more throughout our program today on police reform on capitol hill, the groups who are looking to influence that legislation. but mostly this morning, your

phone calls on the one-year anniversary of george floyd's death. (202) 748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones. one of the quick news stories this morning, punch bowl news, their morning news later -- newsletter, some updates on that police were from negotiation. a lot of focus on tim scott, republican from south carolina, leading the negotiations on the gop side. the punch bowl news story noting that scott turned heads and the senate yesterday when he told reporters that he had good progress over the weekend. he said i think we can see the end of the tunnel. he added, obviously not this week, but i think we are starting to see the framework though. as we await those negotiations and look to the white house and around the country today for remembrances of george floyd, we are hearing from you and your thoughts this morning.

robert is up first out of riverside, california come up very early in california. good morning, robert. caller: i just want to say that, as republicans, we should be against government corruption, against government overreach and government bureaucracy, and we need to start pretending like the police departments are immune to that. a lot of people out there have conspiracies about this being a politically motivated thing. a medical examiner said george floyd was killed by the top, and we are fulling ourselves -- we are fooling ourselves if people are saying that was not the case. host: how do you think policing has changed in your community, your state? has there been more of a focus on race in policing? caller: well, i mean, the change is not going to come until you get different people in there and get different systems going on.

there is a lot of things we can be doing with technology right now that we're not doing with policing, a lot more we can be doing with cameras to eliminate this guesswork. and we need politicians to step up and provide the money to make those changes. there is no reason, with all the technology we have, that we are doing things in the exact same way we were doing 50 years ago. host: that was robert out of riverside, california. dan is next out of verona, new york. caller: thank you for taking my call. this was a tragic situation with mr. floyd. there is plenty of blame to go around both sides here. we have a situation where this person had enough drugs in him to kill three people, and the coroner himself said he did not die of asphyxiation from this cop sitting on his back, ok. yes, he could have handled it

better, but stop and think about how this has escalated to this point, what we are seeing across this country. just last night, syracuse, new york, a 13-year-old girl shot to death. last week, a 14-year-old shoots a 15-year-old to death. it goes on and on. host: why do you think that is all traced back to the death of george floyd? caller: number one, it is not just traced back -- george floyd is another good example of the problem of the drug culture in this country being allowed to propagate. the people who have the ability to stop this are sitting on their hands. and this country is being inundated by all these problems, which are crushing us. what are the politicians doing question were dragging in more problems over the border. the police chief of syracuse, new york, when asked what you want to do about it, oh, pray for us. no, go get rid of the drug

dealers, get rid of the criminals. there will be a lot of violence involved in that, but the violence is going on today. host: a call from flint, michigan. good morning. caller: i think the police should be held accountable. too much lying on the porch, covering up, just smacking the wrists when they do these things. they should be held accountable when they lie and do all this crooked stuff. they should be held accountable. host: what is the best way to do that? caller: -- year in prison. if everybody give you this trust and taking you word -- your word and you tell a lie, and you put somebody in prison because of a lie, you need to be punished for that. until accountability happens, nothing is going to change. host: one of the arguments by those in favor of police reform

is something that could add accountability, eliminating qualified immunity, allowing police officers to be sued in a civil capacity for damages. it is part of the george floyd justice in policing act. here are some of the provisions of the george floyd justice in policing act. prohibiting racial profiling by law enforcement, banning chokeholds and no knock warnings, requiring the use of body cameras by police, limiting transfer of military grade equipment, the qualified immunity aspect, and collecting data on police misconduct and use of force. it is a larger bill even than that, those are just some of the provisions. democrats in the house passing that in early march on a mostly partyline vote. it is awaiting action in the senate. that senate action awaiting ongoing discussions between senator tim scott, cory booker,

the congresswoman leading negotiations on the democratic side. and we will see what happens with police reform in this country. we are asking you about this anniversary of george floyd's death, what it has meant to you, what it has meant to the country over the past year when it comes to policing and racial bias in the communities. shepard is in macon, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. thank you for allowing me to be on your show. i have to be fair with you, i was born and raised in the bronx, new york city, and i recently just moved to macon, georgia. so majority of my opinion comes from my life in new york city. and in new york city, i have been personally mistreated by the nypd there. when george floyd died at the hands of a police officer, that broke my heart. i watched the court case, and i cried every time i watched it.

i could not watch it anymore because it brought back so many bad memories. police have to be held accountable. police have to stop thinking that they are above the law. police have to stop thinking that they are the judge, jury, and executioner's. and as long as police unions, like the ones in new york city that are allowing these officers or supporting these types of policing habits and behaviors, then there will not be change. until the politicians really clamp down on these police unions that protect bad police officers, there will not be change. host: that is shepard in macon, georgia. he said he watched the trial of derek chauvin in the murder of george floyd. this was president biden after that verdict was announced. [video clip] pres. biden: it was murder in

full light of day, and it lifted the blinders off for the whole world to see the systemic racism the vice president just referred to. the systemic racism is a stain on our nation soul. and leaning on the neck for justice of black americans, the profound fear and trauma, exhaustion's that black and brown americans experience every single day. the murder of george floyd launched a summary of protests we had not seen since the civil rights during the 1960's, protests that unify people of every race and generation, in peace and with purpose to say enough, enough, enough of the senseless killing. today, today's verdict is a step

forward. i just spoke to the governor of minnesota. he thanked me for the close work with his team. i also spoke with george floyd's family again. remarkable family with extraordinary courage. nothing can ever bring their brother and their father back. but this can be a giant step forward in the march toward justice in america. host: that was president biden last month. now i want to take you back a year ago, former president trump speaking about the death of george floyd last may, his remarks as the protests began. former president trump -- [video clip] mr. trump: the death of george floyd on the streets of minneapolis was a grave tragedy. it should never have happened. it has filled americans all over

the country with horror, anger, and grief. yesterday, i spoke to george's family and expressed the sorrow of our entire nation for their loss. i stand before you as a friend and ally, to every american seeking justice and peace, and i stand before you in firm opposition to anyone exploiting this tragedy to loot, rob, attack, and menace. healing, not hatred. justice, not chaos, are the mission at hand. host: president trump just about a year ago. this morning at today in washington, we are expecting george floyd's family to be at the white house to mark the one-year anniversary of his death in minneapolis last year. cecil in alexandria, virginia.

go ahead. caller: thank you for giving me the opportunity to express my thoughts. i think we have a depravity of culture where so many unfortunate white individuals promote false theories. in world war ii, millions of people was killed. in the various wars of america, many people were taken down to the grave. they want to blame black folks in their community for contributing to homicides of those who have guns manufactured by the arms merchants. and they promote, import or export weapons of death around the world. but they always want to put their hands around the next of the victims. the tragedy of george floyd primarily came as a result of

the police officers, a series of them. they have witnesses that gave accounting of the stages from his life. during that time, drugs did not kill him, but the constant pressing down on his neck and the ability to breathe, documented by the coroner, took his life. they did have some individuals coming online and saying it was drugs. so i think it is a great tragedy of the american culture. look at all the trees in my lifetime that have disappeared, the animals that used to roam wildly, and the pollution being poured into the air, which may result in the extinction of mankind as a whole. host: this is ron out of san clemente, california. caller: good morning.

good to see you again. i have got a few thoughts, if you just give me a minute here. you know, rodney king was a seminal moment in american history because people were able to actually see police brutality at an extreme rate. the george floyd experience has been a similar moment. there was no denying that there was just incredible wrongdoing by not one police person but a concert, three or four. anyway, having said that, let's go to the actual reasons why we have problems with our police in this country. one of them is that most people do not get involved in the process. that means, you know, police academies around our country are the finest way for people to get empathy for our police departments that you could

possibly achieve. when you actually go to a police academy and you experience ride-alongs and you see what the police have to face every single day, you get incredible empathy for our police departments and the challenges that are out there. it is life or death for them everyday. host: have you ever done a ride-along? caller: you betcha. i went through a citizens academy with my wife many years ago. it was the finest moment of my life. we got to shoot police firearms, right helicopters, do ride-alongs, the entire thing. it is very important because you have a complete empathy for what these guys are going through. how many black people actually go through police academies? i do not know, but there should be a lot. the second thing that is most important about all of this is called the consent decree. when an actual department goes

through a bad phase, like it did in serpa co. and in new york city and ferguson, missouri -- like it did in serpico, and nothing is done and the police chief is not held accountable, you have a federal problem where they need to come look at that and say you need to change your act. when that is not done -- ferguson actually caused the george floyd death. host: the justice department has announced an investigation into the minneapolis police department, under the biden administration. that is happening now and ongoing. do you think that will help? caller: listen to me, that is a start. this is around the whole country. there is one other last item that you have to listen to. it is very important. and that is -- do you remember what police used to look like in this country, when it was adam 1

2 all those great shows that were on tv? the guys did not weigh 300 pounds. the cops did not weigh 300 pounds. they weighed 182 pounds to 195 pounds. they were in great shape, and they were actually police officers. host: that was ron out of california. we mentioned president biden meeting with george floyd's family today at the white house. that is expected at 1:30 p.m. eastern time. keep an eye on c-span listings today. if there is some sort of public part of that event, we will bring that to you. so stay with us throughout the day, as we hope you always do. kirk in athens, alabama. you are next. caller: good morning. can you hear me? host: yes, sir.

caller: let me my tv. let me ask the audience, does anybody think that four police officers with an audience of spectators would keep their knee on the neck of a white man for any reason and ignore people's pleas to give the man an opportunity to breathe and be arrested and taken to jail? the man was in handcuffs, and he was not resisting. and that was four people on a man, one on his neck, another on his back, and others holding his legs. if that is not enough indication of the policing and police brutality and racism toward black men and black people and people of color in general, i need to know, what more do you need to see? all this emphasis is put on the lives of policeman and their split-second decisions and this nonsense about bad apples. truth be told, everyone knows

and everybody can see, including the world, going back to katrina, going back to slavery, black people's experience in this country has been terrorism. terrorism from the system, education, housing, you name it. host: has anything changed in athens, alabama, in the past year, from what you have seen? caller: no, and it is not going to so long as we have this system that says police can make a split-second decision to take someone's life based on irrational, racist fear. host: kirk in alabama this morning. this is the chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton university, from today's "washington post co. headline, painful to remember, we have to remember. he writes, we have to remember those nine minutes and 29 seconds. we have to recall floyd's cries

for his mother, his pleas for mercy, and we have to remember shelf in's --derek chauvin's face and those police officers around him. if we do not, we will forget. the country is desperate for praise appeared we want to congratulate ourselves and how far we have come and doing what we should have done for a long time. i pray, he writes, that this anniversary disrupts the national urge to pat ourselves on the back. so often, the rush to self congratulate leaves behind the dead, and we go about business as usual, content with ourselves, as we are now, and the dead continue to pile up. you can read that in today's "washington post." it was last june that george floyd's brother testified at a house judiciary committee hearing on this idea of police reform in america. this is what he had to say. [video clip] >> i cannot tell you the kind of

pain you feel when you watch something like that. when you watch her big brother who you looked up to your whole entire life die, died begging for his mom? i'm tired. i'm tired of pain, pain you feel when you watch something like that. when you watch her big brother who you looked up to for your whole life die, die begging for his mom. i am here to ask you to make it stop. stop the pain. stop us from being tired. george called for help, and he was ignored. please listen to the calls i am making to you now, to the calls of our family, and the calls ringing off the streets across the world. people of all backgrounds, genders, and races have come together to demand change. honor them. honor george. and make the necessary changes that make law enforcement the

solution and not the problem. hold them accountable when they do something wrong. teach them what it means to treat people with empathy and respect. teach them what necessary force is. teach them that deadly force should be used rarely and only when life is at risk. george was not hurting anyone that day. he did not deserve to die over $20. i am asking you, is that what a black man is worth? $20? this is 2020. enough is enough. the people marching in the streets are telling you enough is enough. the world needs the right thing. the people elected you to speak for them to make positive change. george's name means something. you have the opportunity here

today to make your names mean something, too. if this ends up changing the world for the better, and i think it will, then he died as he lived. it is on you to make sure his death is not in vain. host: george floyd's brother last june before the house representatives. taking your phone calls this morning, asking you about this anniversary of george floyd's death and looking for your comments on social media. here is a few of those. christopher woods writing, police need to be better trained and more empathetic, meaning more training time and more funding. d funding goes against how to fix this problem. it is nonsense -- defunding goes against how to fix this problem. this one says it is a new version of resist equals reward. this one, nothing is fundamentally changed, therefore

there is no justice, therefore there should be no peace. until we rip the roots of the police out and plant a new idea, it will keep happening. this one says, hope democrats do not do any deal without either getting rid of or at least serious changes to qualified immunity. talking about that deal on police reform that we will be talking more about throughout the day's "washington journal." we continue to watch what is happening on capitol hill, efforts to come up with some sort of bipartisan legislation. greg in mechanicsburg, pennsylvania. you are next. caller: yes, since george floyd died last year, remember a lot of things about that nine minutes. number one, he was saying he could not breathe when he was standing upright and they tried to get him into the police car. what has happened since last end of may 2020, in my opinion, the

dnc and the house of representatives were ecstatic that george floyd died. it gave them the ammunition they needed, they thought they needed, probably part of why donald trump was not reelected. george floyd was a useful tool for the democratic party and the house of representatives. it is just amazing to me to hear all these people talk about one side of this equation. the guy from san clemente was right. i am an attorney and have done a lot of criminal defense. i can tell you that criminals are criminals. they do not do what george floyd did the first time. he was a career criminal. he had been doing things forever. why doesn't the mainstream media -- if you want to investigate,

you want to do a 9/11 commission on january 6? do a 911 commission review of all of these incidents? host: now derek chauvin is a criminal, convicted by a jury of peers, on multiple counts of murder. caller: multiple counts of murder, and guess what? what happened before the jury got the case? maxine waters threatened the jury. the president threatened the jury. that is what happened. host: that is greg in pennsylvania. this is david in reno, nevada. caller: good morning. how are you doing today? host: doing well. caller: thanks for taking all these questions. i am going to go down the rabbit hole for a minute or two, and you might even hang up on me. 2021, and it feels like we're looking at distractions across the board, not really focusing on the big picture at that

altitude here. when i hear racial, transgender, climate change, and no thanks to george floyd, it is just brutal, that nine plus minutes, just brutal. and i remember they run the king thing. just brutal. -- the rodney king thing, i remember. just brutal. host: what should be changed about the picture? caller: they all seem like distractions to me. anti-semitism. if you look at where the money is coming from, looking at it through that lens, it feels like -- i do not know, i look at the great recep and charles schwab talking about i could own nothing and be happy, and look at george soros funding blm and crazy stuff like that. when i look at the chaos map and overlay it on the great reset map -- host: we're going to stick with

the conversation about the anniversary of the death of george floyd and what it means in this country, especially on police reform. a call from lafayette, indiana, is next. caller: good morning, sir and everyone in america. i feel that when the police were militarized, that was a big minus to our country. and before they passed the prohibition of alcohol law, there were no alcohol gangs. before they passed the drug laws, there were no drug gangs. murder and the crime rate went up 70% when they pass the alcohol law and went up 100% when they pass the drug laws. the repealed the alcohol law 13 years after they passed it, and the murder rate that went up 70% went back down 70%. it broke up the alcohol gangs. it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what should be done about the drug laws. just ridiculous the way it is

now. host: this is maxine in michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. my favorite commentator. this george floyd -- i am so sick of hearing of george floyd. you have got a drug addict, counterfeitter resisting arrest, and i watched the whole trial. that whole trial was political. there was nothing whatsoever about criminal, it was political. host: what do you think of the need for this larger conversation about policing in america? what is fair, what is not fair, what should be done? caller: to start with, derek chauvin followed police procedures, what he was taught to do. he did not do anything out of

what was described in this job description. that trial was political. there is no way you can deny it. george floyd was a drug addict with counterfeit money. if you want to give him saint hood, go ahead and do it. but that is not justice. that is not american justice. and i am surprised that chauvin was convicted. but nevertheless, george floyd was not a saint. host: got your point. mark in massachusetts, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you. i think police need to start leading by example. they thing that has infuriated me more and more over the years is in massachusetts, they have what is called -- [indiscernible] if they are too dark, you'll be

pulled over, against the law. seems like over the years, all the police and the firemen are the guys with the tinted windows. in addition, i want to bring up one thing about the new labor secretary. host: let's not do labor secretary, let's not do tinted windows. let's talk about the topic at hand, what has changed in the country in the conversation about race and policing. caller: ok, i just want to say that i think the police need to start leading by what they should do. and you cannot keep protecting people who disobey the law. in boston, we had a situation where they were covering for a pedophile police officer who became the head of a police union. so i think the police unions need to be dissolved. i was following some of the union's twitter accounts in new york city, and they were calling

people words you would not even use on c-span. unauthorized accounts on twitter. these are the people who are supposed to protect and serve. host: mark, you might be interested later today in our program that starts about 9:30. we will be joined by the former president of the international association of chiefs of police, talking about this issue of police or form, some of the proposals made on capitol hill. we will get his responses to those. stephen cat stevens is his name, currently the chief of police at the buffalo grove police department in illinois. this is maren out of salt lake city, utah. caller: good morning. i would like to think the screener for letting me say something. i am very old. and i'm a news addict. of course, i may be wrong. i'm not omnipotent.

but it seems to me that the police have an edge over criminals. i realize that criminals commit crimes, some of them very serious and some of them not so serious. but -- and i understand the police have to make split-second decisions sometimes. but the way that this man -- george floyd was treated by that policeman in plain sight for everyone who wanted to watch, it was terribly wrong. and i have always thought that -- also, i know for a fact that black people are arrested and convicted more often than

whites. and it simply is not fair. and until we treat blacks like whites, i think this problem will continue. and i do not know what to do about it, but i feel like the police need more rules or laws, whatever, governing them. there is plenty of laws on the books about how to handle criminals. host: the video was there for anyone who wanted to see it because it became something that was passed around through the internet. it was bystanders taking the videos that first got his story out, before we started seeing some of the police dashboard and body cameras. part of the george floyd justice in policing act would provide

funding to promote the use of body cameras by all police department speared the latest federal statistics on the use of police body cameras, in 2016, 80% of the largest police agencies used body cameras. in the different opinions section of today's opinion page of "usa today," a member of the fraternal order of police takes on this issue of body cameras, calling for legislators in making these changes to body camera laws to protect the integrity of investigations. he writes, with the right policies and procedures in the place, body worn cameras have proven to be a valuable tool for accountability and in an evidence gathering standpoint. in some cases, it was in the interest of public safety to immediately release the footage, but this does not apply to every

case. in some cases, it would be contrary to the public interest and compromise the integrity of an investigation or potentially violate the rights of the accused or privacy of a victim. a broad mandate about this is extremely problematic and could violate existing law. the argument that immediate and unfiltered access to digital evidence like body one camera footage overrides local policies, existing laws and constitutional rights should be dismissed. you can read more in today's "usa today." a call from texas, you're next. caller: good morning. i have been listening for a little bit about what some of the people have been saying, which is really sad. however, what i want to comment on is police need more accountability. and i am so glad that they are going to pass -- i am hoping they are going to pass this. i am hoping the president is going to push this through. the reason being is when you

get to the point where you're stopping military, active duty, nonetheless, and threatening to light them up for no reason, you are out of control. you are out of control. and because i am retired military, and i thought that we used to share this thing with police, but evidently that is not even soapy or do i think they have gone a little too far. they stop civilians and stuff, and i have been stopped -- i live in texas, so i have been stopped. you know, i have to do this precursor, you know, something like that to tell them about my disability because i am afraid i am going to turn into a sandra bland. so you have fear out here. and when they did that to that lieutenant, i think they were out of control. and everything that is in that

bill needs to be passed with all expediency. host: so you are not in favor of some sort of compromise here, they should just move ahead with the george floyd justice in policing act? caller: ok, people have been compromising their lives, their dignity. so i think we have compromised enough. host: this is bernard, elk grove, california. good morning. caller: how are you? i just want to say that it is a culture within the police departments that is, you know, all throughout the departments in the united states. unfortunately, what you have got to do is, which will not happen, but you have to get rid of qualified immunity and be able to hold them accountable for what they are doing.

if they think you're going to get their money, they will think twice about their behavior. also, the tracking and tracing, like the officer that did that to the lieutenant, military lieutenant. he will just go to the city, county, whatever, and get a job. you have to be able to trace these guys, these people, and hold them accountable. and they have been getting away with this stuff for so long that it is just a culture now. and, like, the new york police union, when they was talking, the leader of the union was almost in tears saying they will not let us put our hands on them. i mean, when he is saying that, who is he really talking about? if white people in america thought he was talking about putting his hands on their wives and sons and daughters, they would have been outraged. but everyone knows that when he said, they won't let us put our

hands on them or they do not want us to put our hands on them, he is talking about a black and brown people. and that is why they do it, because they know they can get away with it because of the culture. unfortunately, i do not think the qualified immunity, they will take that and will not do the tracing number because that will make the police have to behave themselves. they do not want to behave themselves. and there are politicians that do not want them to behave themselves. host: what about the tracing issue that you bring up? caller: you know, the thing about the tracing, if you get fired, you cannot just go to the next town and get a job. host: tracking these officers with disciplinary action. just about 7:45 here on the east coast, about 15 minutes left in this segment of the "washington journal." we continue to take your calls. you can call on phone lines. regionally. (202) 748-8000 if you are in the

eastern or central time zones. (202) 748-8001 if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones. to give situational awareness, up here on capitol hill today, the senate is in today at 10:00 a.m. you can watch proceedings live on c-span2. they will have their weekly caucus lunch this afternoon. at 2:30, we expect a vote on the confirmation of kristin clark to be the assistant attorney general for civil rights. you can watch that on c-span2, as well. discussions continue to be ongoing about the u.s. innovation and competition act, authorizing funding for a new science and technology research program to help the u.s. compete against china. elsewhere on capitol hill today, after the "washington journal" at 10:00 a.m. eastern, we will take you to the house appropriations subcommittee hearing on the budget request for the national institutes of

health. dr. francis collins and dr. anthony fauci will testify. you can watch here on c-span, c-span.org, listen on the free c-span radio app. federal reserve regulations will be discussed today in the senate banking committee. the federal reserve vice chair for supervision will be testifying at that hearing at 10:00 a.m. on c-span3, c-span.org, and the free c-span radio app. this afternoon, a hearing on gun violence prevention and enforcing gun storage laws, a judiciary hearing, live starting at 2:30 on c-span3, online, and on the c-span radio app. back to your phone calls as we discussed the anniversary of george floyd's death in minneapolis. this is lisa in laurel, maryland. what has changed, and what happened? caller: i do not think a lot has

changed. right where the trial was being held, a young black man was shot and killed. that was right down the street as the trial was going on. so nothing has changed. and i do not think it will change as long as you have people on these police forces who are really former military, militarized type individuals, who really do not see the people in the community as people or as people that they would want to live next door to. number two, i hear some of these callers, i wish you guys would sometimes change up from region or democrat, republican, to black, white, latino, or other races. i think folks hide behind, i will be honest, hide behind

their whiteness. the mexican person who was saying george floyd was a drug addict -- ok, -- that maxine person who was saying george floyd was a drug addict -- ok, that should make it easier to put him in the car to take him to prison. the problem was he was 6'6" or so and change, and these little white and asian cops were afraid of him. that is a problem. george floyd, he was handcuffed with his hands behind his back. he was kneed down. what more could he have done to submit to them? i do not think the acs black folks as people, and because ash i do not think they see as black folks as people, and because they have done so much for us over the years and waiting for the explosion to come, and i am telling you, if something is not done in this new george floyd in policing at, they say black lives matter, they need to do

something soon, these so-called politicians. and i am glad they are tamping down on the rhetoric, because i am telling you, the former was leading to a race riot in this country. and i do not think the side that he thought was going to win was going to win. host: we will head to minneapolis. this is anthony. what are you seeing in minneapolis on this anniversary of george floyd's death? caller: i do not really see anything has changed. there is no way anything is going to change, no matter how many bills you legislate. you cannot legislate the way people feel. this issue with the police i believe is from upbringing, not about training. it is probably with your skinheads and so on, they are on the police force.

this is a suggestion for a show. could you find out about the money that the police unions pay to the officers when they are involved in these shootings? i have heard they give over some $500,000, so it sounds like to be more of a bounty. host: are you talking about legal fees? caller: right, so what happens is they give them $500,000, either for if they are fired or for legal fees, so either way, they get to keep the money. but you can look at it as basically a bounty. that is why when you look at the qualified immunity, that is why it means so much. host: that is not something i have heard about, but certainly something to look into. that is anthony in minnesota this morning, in minneapolis. today's "wall street journal" focuses on minneapolis. a: calling it open season in

that city. -- a column calling it open season. heather mcdonald writes, after floyd's death, the minneapolis at a council called for abolishing the police department and replacing it with a new transformative model for cultivating safety, but she says attrition is accomplishing the same goal as the funding. at least 200 officers have gone on leave since may of 2020, leaving the minneapolis police department under by nearly a third. morale was destroyed by the failure to defend the third precinct and prevent the torching and looting of businesses during the may 2020 rights. a newly retired lieutenant wrote that in a february 2021 op-ed. as lawless as minneapolis has become, it is hardly atypical. homicides rose 50% in chicago in 2020, 46% in new york city, 38%

in los angeles. the u.s. of the u.s. other largest annual percentage increase in homicides in recorded history in 2020. the media and democratic politicians attribute that to the pandemic and shut down, but the violence surge began only after the george floyd riots, she writes, more than two months after covid-19 devastated the economy. you can read more in today's "wall street journal." joe in alabama, you are next. caller: yeah, i think most of the callers calling in think that these police, when they pull somebody over, know who they are pulling over or who they're dealing with. they show that video of the new mexico state police that got gunned down pulling somebody over. i would not want to do that job. they are trying to protect themselves. so it is a tough job, and there

ain't enough money in the world for me to do it. and i appreciate what they do, and they risk their lives everyday. there are some bad cops, just like there is a lot of bad people in the world. that is my thought. thank you. host: in new jersey, this is sean. caller: let's be straightforward and simple about it, cops are soldiers. here in new york city, a lieutenant was fired, three police officers were fired because they were running a drug ring, and one of the cops was bragging that he pulled guns on black people for fun. ok, just a couple bad apples. here in georgia, a cop bragged that he loved giving black people felonies and loved getting black people to get death. my point is this, cops are race

soldiers, and american knows this. for five years straight, i have presented to people on websites documentations showing the cops were racist. they blow it off. i hate to tell people that that are trying to negotiate with these people. there is a certain segment in the united states that sees cops as race soldiers and likes them just like that, and they're willing to lie to keep the hierarchy that they represent. the cops are not there to serve and protect, they are enforcers. they're there to keep brown and black people and poor white people in place, simple, the end. i have tried to negotiate with these people and have sent proof and documentation. they say, what about black on black crime? ok, black people kill black people. white people kill white people. i am not a fan of black people because of the way they operate, but that is another story.

but what they're talking about is 100% the truth. we have seen so many videos for the past four or five years, and they still say it is training. it is not training. if you look at videos from the 1960's, pc the same thing going on. -- you see the same thing going on. host: when you say they, who is them? who are you having the debates with? caller: regular people. people on the hill. i do not go on facebook but other places, like conservative websites, the examiner. that is where they congregate to talk to each other. so i go in there and say, what do we do about police brutality? the first thing they say is, what about black on black crime? so you should be involved in black lives matter because you're concerned about black on black crime. white america, and i do not know the number -- host: why do you feel it is important to go to these websites and engage people and

have this debate? and how long have you been doing it? caller: because it is a safe space for them, and i wanted to get the true meaning of what they are saying when they are not in public or calling some place like c-span. this is where they let their guards down and talk about this. what i want to know is, do you support racism in policing or not? what i have discovered is the answer is about 50% of the united states supports them. i have a lot of conservative friends and i send them articles, and some of them are slowly starting to see it. and the other ones who do not care do not say anything. what i have seen, 50% of the united states support police brutality and at the racism that goes along with it. host: joseph is in stafford, virginia. you are next. caller: good morning. if a police officer tells you you are under arrest, turn around and put your hands behind your back and get in the squad car, you should do it.

i will tell you, if you think it is a good idea to try to jump back in your car and drive off like you are going to get away or if you think it is a good idea to fight with the police officers, it is not going to end well for you. those police officers are protecting me from you, the criminal. you know, if george floyd would have just said ok and got in the squad car, he would have been out of jail by lunchtime. he would have had dinner that same night with his daughter. if you are not going to obey the law, it is not going to end well for you. host: alan in the cold springs, minnesota. what has changed in the year since george floyd's death? caller: well, in the years since george floyd's death, the

minneapolis police department has lost 200 police officers. and our state has made a hero of a criminal. and the president of the united states has. george floyd's death was tragic, but he should have, as the previous caller stated, if we are told we are under arrest, we are under arrest. and what it seems is happening is people are fighting the arrest. and george floyd had fentanyl and meth in his system, and now we are -- in minnesota today, we're celebrating the legacy, our news media is telling us come of george floyd.

what was his legacy? you know, how did he live his life? host: president biden will be talking about george floyd today at the white house, meeting with the family at 1:30. we will see if he makes public remarks, but that event is scheduled to take place here in washington. a few comments from social media. this is paul in delaware. some police reform is needed. defunding is not. this is not a black-white program. george floyd died tragically. but do not forget tony timpa, the white men who died with a dallas policeman's knee on his neck. this from another twitter viewer, police have to start policing the police. if you believe towards floyd's death was justified, then it is ok for police to murder citizens and they feel like it and not to be held accountable. in this one says we celebrate

all the lives that ended too soon from drug overdoses, not just this one. john has been waiting in boston, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to end it on a peaceful notice since we are coming close to 8:00. hopefully people will be listening and maybe try to do something about this. i have police officers in my family. my son, my brother, my brother-in-law, my nephew, and my granddaughter's husband. i am probably a dinosaur, in my 70's, but what we used to have back in the days of school, in elementary school, is what we called officer-friendly. and i think if you are going to have some police reform, this little piece might help. every officer could donate at least one hour in the course of their week where they go to a

local school with little kids and talk about drugs in the street and stopping for the red light and letting them relate to the police officers. i believe that is a small step that would change our environment that we have right now. and a couple of other things, just to be in reality, not just in defense of the police, but in the situation that happened with floyd, if you went to district three and district five and this other stuff happened, you would see that the crime rate in that area, that those police officers that are being prosecuted now, you would see that the crime rate was tremendously high compared to -- and i give an example of where i live, just two towns over, the crime rate is a lot higher than where i live.

and if you could just get the police to start doing that little bit of a reform host: that is john, our last caller, but stick around, plenty more to talk about today, including those ongoing discussions between lawmakers are trying to come up with a bipartisan police reform bill, marty johnson of the hill's paper, an update on that and later, we will talk about how the anniversary of george floyd's killing has affected civil rights. from the legal defense and education fund, we will be joined by him. we will be right back. >> listen to c-span's podcast,

booknotes+. this week, christopher bonner teaches -- african-american politics and culture, slavery, and emancipation in the atlantic world. dr. bonner is an associate professor in the history department in everett university of maryland. he graduated with a bachelor of arts from howard university and received his phd from the l. his first book is titled "remaking the republican: black politics and the creation of american citizenship." he writes in the introduction that his book is rooted in the published record of antebellum black protest beard >> booknotes+, subscriber you get your podcast. and learn more about all of this c-span podcasts at c-span.org/podcasts.

c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. browse to see what is new. your purchase will support our nonprofit operations and you still have time to order the congressional directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration beard shot now to get a 20% discount. go to c-spanshop.org. >> washington journal continues. host: marty johnson is a reporter with the hill newspaper, he joined us for a conversation on state and police reform efforts. on the national level, on that compromise police reform bill we have been tracking. what is the latest on when that bill might be expected and what we know about the sticking point as of today? guest: right. obviously, today is the one-year anniversary of george floyd's death and that has been sort of the self-imposed deadline that the white house and karen bass,

the architect of the george floyd justice in policing act set for themselves to get this bill to president biden's desk, to get signed into law. obviously, we are in today and that is not going to happen, but congresswoman bass signals that conversations with senator tim scott were going well, but that we need a few more weeks to get it finalized and she said that she has to have the bill be substantive and drive the change that they are trying to seek rather than get a bill passed by a certain date. host: a few more weeks. how much pressure by reform advocates to simply try to move ahead with the george floyd justice in policing act rather than waiting for whatever comes out of this negotiation. of course, the george floyd act passed in march in the house, mostly a partyline vote. guest: when it passed the house,

it did not have any republican support and democrats knew that they would have to work across the aisle in the senate to get the bill passed and avoid a filibuster beard -- filibuster. advocates i have talked to are pleased with the progress, they know it takes time. i think it would be a different story if talks or stalling -- were stalling and disintegrating . last week, when she was talking about the new deadline, congresswoman bass said it will not take months, hopefully within the next couple of weeks. host: is there any concern that waiting for this bipartisan bill to come together lost maybe some of the momentum from the passage of the house version or any momentum that might have come from all of the attention on the

trial last month? guest: one thing that advocates -- for george floyd's murder, is that this is the end they started a year ago. this is an ongoing talk about what policing looks like in america, what police interacting with black people in this country looks like, what police killings of black people in this country look like, this is an ongoing conversation. the day of the conviction, a teenager was killed in columbus, ohio by police. you know, the week before the trial wrapped up in the -- brooklyn, minnesota, 10 miles away somewhere chauvin was standing trial, daunte wright was shot and killed at a traffic stop and then andrew brown, jr. the day after the conviction was

shot and killed by police in elizabeth city, north carolina. host: we are talking with marty johnson with the hill newspaper taking your phone calls, your questions on police reform, whether it is at the federal or state and local level, covering these issues for the hill newspaper, take us to the state level, one year anniversary, what has changed in minneapolis specifically when it comes to policing in that city? guest: right. in december, the mayor of minnesota along with the future council unanimously decided that they will rollback the police budget, they will take out $8 million from the police budget and shift it toward violence prevention, other social services in an effort to drive down, i guess, the encounters

with police that turned violent, that turned deadly and also in minneapolis, a couple of weeks ago, the near term general merrick garland announced that there will be a practice review in minneapolis. that is a tool that the department of justice has to look at a police department's practices, what is going on, what is going wrong, what should we fix and after that, we -- it usually goes into a consent decree, which is a really effective tool that the federal government has to have some oversight over these police departments that demonstrate that there is a problem in how they operate. host: was states in this country have taken the most dramatic steps on policing reform in the past year? guest: i would not say at the state level, it is more local level, so that new york police department -- mollified

community, other states that have taken that step toward it. most changes at the steady level. -- at the city level. repeated levels of police violence, of police killings, that is where the most reform is seen. host: on the issue of qualified immunity, there has been some compromise efforts on qualified immunity to set a limit for what police officers can do in their individual capacity, maybe have the departments take up the rest. is that part of the negotiation in the federal bill. we know qualified immunity is one of the major sticking points right now. is there some middle ground there? guest: it is a great point you brought up, the idea of having the police department or the municipality in which the police department operates take some of the liability in these policeman

conduct cases. that has a bid proposal -- that has been a proposal brought up. host: plenty of topics to discuss. marty johnson to take your phone calls, dwayne in jamaica, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. if it sounds good, the congressional police reform effort, you're going to have conservative states, arizona, florida, conservative ag spiting something of the sort. -- fighting something of this sort. how is it that you will come back and try to have reform when you will have these resistance -- this resistance in those

conservative states? guest: yeah, sure. the bill works in a couple of different ways when it comes to reform. past qualified immunity, there's a lot of things. the choke holds, at the federal level, so federal agents cannot use that in their policing. it creates a database for police misconduct. if an officer is fired for misconduct, they cannot then go to another police department down the road, down the street, another city and get a job. it also creates a database when force is used, but we do not have a let that a lot of great information on it. it is not as robust as we would like it. as far as the implementing at the state and local level, it

ties into federal aid. federal aid is 20% of the national police budget so across the country, how the police department is getting their money, 20% comes from the federal government. you need to see -- host: what is a no-knock warrant and how often are they used? guest: the no-knock warrants, they are warrants that police can get from the judge, the judge finds -- signs off and it gives those officers probable cause that there is some activity going on, -- drug raids, they do not want to -- to alert the people that they are coming. they answer without stating who they are, their presence, which

usually happens. host: gilbert in silver springs, maryland. republican appeared caller: i just have two points. there was a study on major police departments in the united states and they found that just on policing policies alone, on police and tracked, what they can get away with, they did not even meet basic minimal human rights standards by the u.n., which the united states signed in the 70's. that needs to be solved because we see what happens when we violate human rights in china, yemen, afghanistan, let alone here. that needs to be solved weird second is, what about having -- sold. second is, having sheriffs are elected by the people.

and have to answer to the people every four to two years. guest: yeah, no. as far as stopping civil rights violations, it is one of the things that is in this bill. it is called the color of law statute. it says a police officer or any law enforcement personnel cannot intentionally deprive someone of their civil rights. we see in these police misconduct cases and in the chauvin case is that chauvin along with three other officers in that case a few weeks ago were indicted on that federal charge of violating mr. floyd's civil rights. it is a really -- in the statute, it says, and intent has

to be proven, which is a hard thing to prove at any court in this country. the democrats need to lower the standard from intentional or reckless or willfully to open up the ability for these police officers to do misconduct to be held accountable. host: north carolina, independence, good morning. -- independents, in morning. caller: my question is, what is that there is a major focus -- great division in these high-profile cases. but then you have a lot of cases that bring people together -- and you have many of the

officers reviewing the video themselves. in louisiana, you have years and consistencies in the story, police reports nonmatching -- you touched on that no knock in, but i think a lot of people -- there are a lot of things wrong on many levels with that. i do not understand the lie that we cannot come to a consensus. the situation needs to be quantified, studies need to be made about the impact this is having on people. host: i appreciate the question, i want to let marty johnson respond in a sound like you're multitasking this morning? caller: you guys do a good job of keeping me sane. host: good luck. guest: i think what he brought

up is a good point. at the bottom line, -- around the policing and with this george floyd policing act, the cost is, how do you hold police more accountable for their actions? it is really hard for the police misconduct case, not only the chauvin trial but to get a jury conviction is extremely rare. in the cases we have of police officers being arrested, in excessive force, and for using deadly force on the job, so when we talk about the no-knock warrants -- host: in louisiana, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say that i did not think it is so much holding the police accountable as it is holding america and the media

and the politicians accountable. until we decide that everything is going to be reported equally, that you are going to talk about just as many whites are killed by officers, but yet you are going to show going to the streets when a black person is killed when you can see that there have been actions that he took that indeed accelerated any attempts of police made on him in heaven at his rest. -- in his arrest. i am saying we cannot glorify people for doing wrong and make them a hero when we have to look at a full picture. host: here is a full picture of the country. the white population in this country, about 63%, the back -- the black population about 13%, this from usa today in terms of

all killings by police officers, although the black population in this country is 13%, they represent 27% of all police killings in this country, whites represent 48%. when it comes to unarmed killings by police officers, the black population in this country is even more represented in that group, 35% of all unarmed killings by police officers, whites are just 31% of that group. those numbers from mapping police violence.com on today's usa today anniversary section when it comes to george floyd. did you want to add any thoughts? guest: i will add one thing appeared if you talk to civil rights activists -- i will add one thing. if you talk to the civil rights activists, this idea of why are we not talking about the other deadly force that happens with

police, they did. we know the history of police, we know the legacy of pain and the pattern of seeing black people get killed by police and not ever be held accountable, so that is where that conversation is going. police reform advocates also -- they want all of it to stop. host: about 10 minutes left with marty johnson this morning, coming up on 8:30 eastern. add 1:30 today, president biden it will meet with the florida family, do you have any more information about whether he will make public remarks are what we are expecting after that meeting? guest: so, yesterday press secretary jen psaki said that president biden will be meeting with a family of george floyd at the white house. she said the remarks will be private, that he has a real relationship with the family.

if you remember, during the campaign last year, biden reached out to his family almost immediately after and they have kept that relationship going, so i would say that there might be some sort of general -- i will not be surprised if we do not have any insights to that conversation today. host: mike in independents. good morning. caller: i agree with the last caller. i believe that criminals want to fight with the police and get glorified and made into martyrs. a lot of these black people we were talking about that were shot, all they had to do was get in the police car and then they would be alive today. just get in the police car, take the ride and stay alive. that is what i have to say. host: mr. johnson on that common? guest: -- comment?

guest: i think police reform activists and civil rights activists in the past 10 years as body camera footage and bystander video with cell and stuff like that, they have grown more common and we have a better insight into how these encounters with police go, we see you -- we see when people do comply and when people have put their hands up or have reached for their insurance and a license and registration and they have been shot and they have been complying and were still -- i think the conversation around that is deeper than just this person did something wrong and they need to comply. host: bring it back to the negotiations on perhaps bipartisan proposals and when it does come out, what do we know about the role of police unions

and civil rights groups, how much influence they have had on not only the members, but the debate as well? guest: you know, the lawyers committee, civil rights and legal, the naacp, urban league, they have been very active in pushing this reform, -- the bipartisan network has helped with talk opportunities on the two sides. they have definitely put a hand in it. as far as police reform and police unions, some of the things -- they have some standard of force, while other things like qualified immunity, they are staunchly against that. host: you talk about the lawyers committee for civil rights. explain who kristen clark is and

what role she may soon have in the administration. guest: she has worn a lot of hats. most recently, she was the head of the lawyers committee, which does a lot of activism work and a lot of programs and nonprofit work surrounding taking up lawsuits against states that they believe passed laws that violate people's civil rights and other social justice issues. she is the head of that and now she is biden's now many to be the head of the civil rights division of the doj, which under the trump administration had a scaled-down role when it came to talking to police departments and overseeing what they are doing on the ground. the senate has pushed her vote to the flow -- floor and that is

supposed to happen sometime this week. host: expected to happen today at 2:30 is what we are hearing. that vote now expected it to: 30. a simple majority needed for her confirmation. you can watch that life on c-span2. sun city, florida, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: thank you, do me a favor and turn down your television because it makes it easier to hear you. caller: it is on mute. the problem in this country today is a white people, black people do not obey the law. the laws are made, we do not need to reform the laws, we have to get people to abide by the law. all you keep talking about is the police, the police, the

police have the interaction with the people that are breaking the law. ok. i say that police should use different tactics when they are approaching someone, they have two or three cops there, they should be able to apprehend the perpetrator without having to use deadly force. but again, you have to remind the people that if you run, that is what you are going to have to settle for. host: for some of these issues that have been brought up in the george floyd just as in policing act, would you agree with the banning chokeholds, that is one of the things in the act is that something you think would be -- caller: you do not need chokeholds, but you need to remember the condition of the man, he was not -- host: what about the issue of requiring the use of body cameras, federal efforts to promote that in police departments. would you support that? caller: body cameras, i agree

with. host: another one, limiting the transfer of military grade equipment to police departments? caller: my point is the police have to use different tactics, but the people who are criminals and black or right, -- white, green or yellow, they had to pay the price. host: john in florida. caller: i think you look around -- when we talk about police reform, criminal justice reform and what that looks like and what our justice system look like -- looks like, and what justice looks like and how that that's what happens when you are arrested and stuff like that. i think the people who are advocating for police reform also really want to see criminal justice reform in a country

moving forward. host: sarah in alabama, independent, good morning. caller: good morning. i want to start with mr. johnson to make statements. this is what i do not understand. you talk about police appeared have you ever been out there and been a cop and seeing the streets like -- i know about all of that, he had that in his system. guest: i have talked to multiple law professors, they have this deep understanding of the justice system. i talked to former police chiefs and former police officers about what reform they want to see. it is not just one side of the

coin. i think people who work and law enforcement say, this needs to be different. the chauvin trial was first -- was the first time we saw not only police officers come out and testify against chauvin and other police officers, which is against the grain, but the police chief of minneapolis was on the stand and condemned what chauvin did to mr. floyd. host: what are you going to be watching for today? how will you cover this anniversary of the death of george floyd? guest: right. i think there is definitely -- as far as negotiations go, i do not think there will be any crazy breakthrough today. i might be wrong. i think there have been a lot of statements from a lot of different people and that is what we learned. host: marty johnson with the hill newspaper, on twitter you

can follow him at marty tweets. and also also -- also has worked at the hill. it is 8:30 on the east coast and we will continue with your calls, your thoughts on the anniversary of the death of george floyd. what has changed and what has not. (202) 748-8000 if you are in the eastern or central time zone. (202) 748-8001 if you're in the mountain or pacific time zone. you can call you now, we will get your calls in a second as we show you again some of the headlines this morning on this anniversary of the death of george floyd, the usa today taking the entire front page on this topic, american reckoning, anger, pain, and hope, it usa today asking various leaders across the country floyd's death means to them and one of those leaders that they talked to for

that story, senator cory booker, who was one of the lead negotiators on this potential bipartisan police reform bill. the democratic senator from new jersey saying george floyd's life matters. america failed george floyd and some the others before him and afternoon -- and after him. in the wake of his death, we have seen a nation awaken to the reality that black americans live every day. we have seen people across the country demonstrate that changing the reality that we live in is not an impossible task. it is our collective calling. great american before us have demonstrated what this moment so urgently demands, not just the right words, not just our voices, but actions. cory booker in today's usa today. gary in maryland this morning, as we talk about the anniversary of the death of george floyd, what has changed in your mind in your community and and this country?

-- and in this country. caller: nothing has really changed. we have seen that there were police killings after the trial. what i find interesting about the george floyd incident is that the police withhold to investigate. they never really investigate. george floyd never resisted anything. i cannot understand the fact -- the chain of command, and ultimately you got him in the hands of the police officers. i believe there should be standards that the community has to understand that as a police officer, you have a job to do. i'm not saying there is no bad people out there, --

host: has the conversation at least help? the demonstrations last summer and fall, how they helped? -- have they helped? caller: as you can see, we are still having the same type of reaction across the nation. the way they handle, approach millions of people, especially those of color. i'm not saying that all police officers -- the ones that are getting caught on camera, it is kind of ridiculous the way they reacted to people of color in

certain areas whether it be urban or suburban. host: this is howard in melville, new york. in morning. you are next. caller: good morning. i want to say, the country has come to a great wokeness in george floyd. what people have to get is that a lot of these people are being lynched to the system every day, it is not showing on the news as much. if her -- if i were a young racist kid, the best job prospect for me right now is to become a police officer. because then i got to be where i want, which is to destroy them and get paid for it. this is common sense and the infiltration going on in the police department by racists and

skinheads, it is obvious, people do not want to say it, but by saying it, it is not doing anything wrong, it is doing a righteous act because at some point, it has to end. host: want, connecticut, good morning, you are next. caller: i think this is a common culture. police must be reformed. i believe in all states, this has been going on for a long time. it just did not come to light since -- until the george floyd case. people are saying you should have done this or did that, but police are intimidator's, they want you to react. i believe that there are good cops. i know that there are. i have plenty of problems with police. thank you. host: this morning, a few of your comments from social media

as we have been talking about the anniversary of the death of george floyd. barbara saying that it is likely nothing in my life will greet me as the site of the knee across george floyd's neck. as it approached eight minutes, i was yelling at the tv to stop the murder. this from -- saying everyone has a fantasy about halloween that's how they would -- about how they would react in these situations. trained cops should note involuntary reactions to occur and passive people are killed as well. one more, eric in seattle, the police reports start the cover up and they must be challenged at the beginning and must be made under oath. host: in georgia, good morning,

what has changed in this past year? caller: i just lost my mother in law -- i was approaching the exit that i need to do to get off on -- needed to get off on and there was a car on the right lane and i had to get in front of them to take the next exit and i saw two cop cars sitting in the bottom and when i passed them, i got in front of the car, i had to speed a bit to get over and when i went up the road to get off the exit, one of the cop cars it was coming and they pulled me over. and when he pulled me over, they normally do not -- they normally come up to the car to the window to talk to you, and he told me i was speeding, but he did not come to the car, he went to the back of my car and called me to the back, i went to the back of

the car and he started asking me questions, why is it when you saw me, he started to slow down? i said, well, officer, i was trying to get over from this card to take the next exit and he asked me the same question again. and i explained to him again, i wanted to get over so i could take the exit. and then he went again asking me the same question again and he said, if we have to be here all night, you have to me why you slow down when you saw me and i got scared then and then he unbuckled his gun and i got scared and i am a pastor so i started to explain, i said, sir, i would like to pray with you. i said, jesus died with the our sins in mind and i would like to pray with you. and when i said that, he snacked -- snapped back his gun and took off. and that day, the lord was with

me. for them to be saying that these black guys are just being disobedient, not all the time because i have had that experience myself and i am living today because of the lord and i know he believed in me. host: have you spoken about that incident in this larger question about police reform in the country, have you spoken about that in the pulpit? caller: i talk about all the time when i am preaching. host: if we were preaching today, what would you say on the anniversary? caller: i would tell everybody to obey the law. obey the law. trust the law and put all your faith in it and i had that experience myself. but i am not going to say that

all of these guys that get shot are getting shot because of the lord, -- i know that dr. king was right in what he was saying and he got murdered, so i know that that is racist, but i do know a lot of these cops are killing black men because they are racist. host: before you go, are you hopeful today? caller: always. host: what keeps you hopeful? caller: pardon me? host: what keeps you hopeful? caller: the lord, jesus christ. i preach the gospel and i'm a pastor like i said and i have been doing that for three to four years. host: john, liverpool, new york. you are next. caller: how are you doing?

as far as i am concerned, this guy was a career criminal. it was tragic that he died, but he was not a saint. this guy was a career criminal. as far as the solution to me, you have to hire more black ops. -- black cops. you have to hire more black cops. you have to hire more black cops . that is my take on this. the racism thing, i am a little tired of the racism tirade being played it is being played in every incident. i voted for barack obama twice, i dated black women, i am not a racist, but i am really tired of these black people shooting off

about racists. host: that is john in new york, tosha in new york. caller: he posed the question about what changed since the anniversary -- you posed the question about what changed. asian americans. an anti-hate bill passed -- asian americans got an anti-hate bill passed but we are still waiting for something to be done in the death of george floyd. that is what happened. i would also like to say, to black people, stop saying people of color because it diminishes our position and what is being done to us. asians are typically -- technically people of color but they have a antiaging hateful past. when we are speaking on black issues, say black, not people of color and one last point. to the gentleman that just called about being tired of the race issue.

until you live in the shoes of a black person and experience what black people do, then you say what you are tired of. have a good day. host: john, also in new york, good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say that black, white, everyone wants to point the finger. what i will say is there is a certain element in the black community that wants to embrace the thug life i'm a -- life, wants to embrace criminality at -- as if it is a statement of freedom. host: where do you get the -- where do you go to get your sense of the black community? caller: i was born and raised in new york city. i talked to black people every day, i work with them, i talked to them, and i am tired of black people considering black

conservatives like traitors to their race, it is all about the thug life. i see it in the white community too. this embracing of criminality and the embracing of what would you call it, irreverence. i think people have to think about that and look into their own heart, that is all i have to say. host: mike, kansas, good morning. caller: good morning. i heard that phone call a few calls back, the black guy that got pulled over by the police. i had the same thing happened to me a few months ago and they kept asking me the same question over and over like i was going to change my answer to him. i ended up on the wrong lane and then i got back over as soon as i could because he pulled me around and pulled me over.

-- he pulled me over and he asked the same question like i would change my answer, why did you do it, why did you do it. it is not just that, it happened to me too. that is all i got. host: larry, houston, texas, good morning. caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. i am in houston and nothing has changed. we still see the same thing. luckily for technology, can you imagine you in the past what it was? before we had video camera and stuff like that? you know, and these people saying they are not a racist and tired of people playing the race card, i dated a black woman, i dated -- i voted for barack obama, you do not live in a black man's shoes. he did not have to tell your kids how to react to a police

officer or worry about coming home after a stop. host: do you have kids, larry? caller: i have three kids and the thing about it -- host: what you tell them in that conversation? caller: i have to be careful with them, all three of them, i am a combat veteran, i have a son who is a combat veteran and one was in the air force reserve and i just told them, it is hard for me to tell them how to react because them -- i told him, look, try to pull up in a well lit place where there are people around. they are white, 29, 27, 25, so they still -- they are what, 29, 27, 25, it scares me the most is the late-night stuff because

there is probably nobody outside. and i always preach that them, you can say it yes, sir, but get do not get on and pull up on the side of the road. and do that. -- never do that. host: do you remember your first conversation with the 25 or 27-year-old after this video? caller: it was way before that. host: do you remember your conversation about the george floyd murder? caller: they have seen it. they see what is going on.

and it is sad, you know, we would love to have more black people -- the thing that makes these police strong like this is the unions. they killed somebody, they still are not held accountable. host: what would you say to the caller a few minutes ago who said that he thinks the problem is that police departments need to hire more black cops -- police officers and have them in mostly african-american communities? caller: i have sons that police that's retired from the police. -- police that retired. houston is a diverse city. we have a lot of problems, but it is very diverse and you do not have as much as the smaller towns around houston or outside the houston area, but you still

-- area, but going to louisiana, he will still run across this. -- you will still run across this. when i first started driving going to louisiana, they thought you were selling drugs if you had a nice car. they would stop you. they would take the seats out of your car, everything, just make your car apart. -- break your car apart. they would tell you to put your car back together. they are crooked. the police today is the new kkk. host: there in houston, texas. allison in maryland, good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate the previous color, that was remarkably -- the previous caller.

i am a combat veteran too and i have been a police -- i have worked with police officers. i want to point some thing out and that is -- there are times when you have concerted colors and you tend to call them -- cut them up earlier than you do -- conservative callers and you tend to cut them off earlier. you tend to ask supportive questions. just be aware of it, i am not trying to be defensive. the second thing is, people need to realize that there is a way to be arrested. just take my point for a second. if you're in an emergency, it is by definition an emergency or police emergency. the previous colors are correct. when i was a young man, my dad told me that if i was ever arrested, my father would personally lead law-enforcement to the highway.

he said the rule of law is much more important than our family, our tribe or whatever we are doing, that is what western civilization is built on. i am not trying to be high-handed, but there needs to be a national campaign where they basically say, if you are in an emergency, there are certain things you do not want to do. do not flash mob, do not attempt to crash a policing operation, do not make yourself a part of the policing problem, and that is different than not documenting something that is a problem. since the previous color was from texas and he will understand, texas is not a good place to get dramatic when you are pulled over because that is a western state and i hope my listeners will know or anybody listening who lived out west knows that the reason there is a difference between east coast and western police operations before oregon and washington state broke the mold is that they come from a tradition of

having dealt with lawlessness in times of old. those are my basic points. i appreciate being able to call in. host: do you have kids? caller: yes, i do. host: what other conversations you have with them? caller: my children are biracial and the conversations i have them on the topic are that lawlessness in any form is intolerable. social protest is always appropriate, but there is a way to protest and a way to protest does not include destroying monuments or destroying public property. for me, and i appreciate your question, for me, maybe it is because i have a background in at the apology, but at some point, when there is too much civil disorder, you get something that looks like a revolution. i feel very badly, please do not cut me off, police are being treated like soldiers after vietnam. i was a green gray when i was in

the military and it sickens to me -- second me to be deaf to see police officers like pariahs. -- it sickens me to see police officers treated like pariahs. despite their flaws, they are the best we got. we need to improve them, but not yet by them. host: when do protesters cross the line? you said too much gets to be a problem, what is too much? caller: having been there personally, i know on january 6, i say too much as what happened at the capitol. i listened to the speech and then i left him up but had i seen someone harming a police officer, i would have given my life to protect them. i would not allow a public servant to be harmed or a civilian. too much at the point where we have chaos or people start to become -- host: you are at president

trump's speech on january 6? caller: were you at capitol hill? host: --host: were you at capitol hill? caller: i was not. the people i saw acted reasonably and in a lawful fashion and by the time i left, i want to take part in the american political process and i also voted for president obama, clinton in the past. host: this is in alabama, good morning. caller: good morning. listening to the colors -- callers and i live in alabama and the caller that called in and said they think that they should put more black officers and the black communities, but i think that would be a mistake. we should have a diverse police department.

if you do that and let me tell you, i have been stopped. when you are wrong, i do not care what color you are, that should be mutual respect from the officer and from the person that he has stopped. i have been stopped and when i was stopped, i was wrong. every time i have been stopped was for speeding and one time, it was a black officer and when he stopped me, i admitted i was wrong, i said i am sorry, i told him why i was speeding, he gave me a ticket, but he was very nice and sometime, he told me, he said i will tell you what i am going to do, you were speeding, reckless driving, but since you acknowledged you are wrong, i am going to drop it down so it will not be an aggravated ticket. also, i have been stopped by a black officer and i live in cleveland, ohio. the worst i was ever spoken to

and black people can get angry for what i'm about to say, but this is my experience. when there was a black officer with a white officer and i have -- that's happened in tuscaloosa, the black officer will talk to you so disrespectfully and the white officer will not say a word. that happened to me and what you need, i do not know how we will get there, first, we need the parents to start teaching their children, respect for authority. i do not think it is wrong, i do not agree with the officer -- i do say to all our young, fn officer stops you, if he is irate, if he is verbally wrong, maybe you can start to say, i am going to report this, but we have to get to the point of mutual respect for everybody. host: that is the caller from

alabama, time for a couple more calls and several more people waiting. anthony in new york, good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to point out one fact. i am a scientifically trained person and i know that if you are not dealing with or recognizing all of the aspects of a problem, you cannot solve the problem. there is a perception that is promoted largely by the media -- encourage people to look up the obama administration report on crime done by eric holder that shows that 45% of the crime in the country is done by black people. if black people are doing more crime out of proportion to their

representation, of course their interaction with the police is going to be greater. host: to these numbers, black people make up 13% of the u.s. population, yet they make up 35% of the unarmed killings by police officers in this country. caller: i am sorry, i do not know what you are saying because i am simply pointing out that according to the obama administration, 45% of the crime in the country and 57% of the killings are done by black people. i am not claiming that black people are bad, i am just saying that of course police are going to interact more with black people if black people are doing more crime. host: anthony in new york, also in new york on the caller. caller: i wanted to say that i

am not sure why we are all surprised when the police commit these heinous crimes. going back to the 1930's, people who got involved in the nazis or fascism, these were regular, run-of-the-mill people who were just wanting jobs and they were most likely to take the jobs. the police officers these days, -- these would be the guys -- host: you are comparing american police to nazis? caller: i am not comparing them to nazis, i'm saying if there was some kind of fascist regime, these are the guys who would sign up because these are the guys who are saying we are just following orders -- host: we will hold off on the

nazi comparison. still an hour to go in the washington journal and we will continue the conversation, the one-year anniversary of george floyd's killing, we will be joined by the naacp education fund and later, we will get a law enforcement perspective on today's anniversary with a former president of the international association of chiefs of police. we will be right back.

announcer: coming up today on c-span dr. francis collins, dr. anthony fauci and other officials from the national institutes of health testify on the agency's budget request at a house appropriations subcommittee live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. at 3:00 p.m. a house armed services subcommittee looks at domestic violence in the military. on c-span two the senate is back at 10:00 a.m. to consider a new nomination and kristen clark to serve as civil rights attorney. the senate banking hold a hearing on the federal reserve's role in regulating the u.s. financial system followed by a senate judiciary subcommittee looking at ways to prevent gun violence with safe gun storage laws.

announcer: washington journal continues. host: lisa cylar barrett serves as director of policy at the naacp legal defense and education fund joining us on the one-year anniversary of george floyd's murder. the same question we have been asking viewers throughout the past two hours of the program, in the past 365 days what has changed and what hasn't? guest: good morning, john. thank you for having me today. i want to take a moment to acknowledge the family and friends of george floyd and the immense grief they continue to experience as a result of the killing of mr. floyd. i think we are all feeling heavy today as we remember the horrific vision of derek chauvin kneeling on the neck of mr. floyd one year ago and ignoring his pleas to breathe. as horrible as we feel i continue to think about the family and the trauma they

suffered watching their loved one suffer such a senseless death. i want to acknowledge them and that we are thinking of them today and always. you know, talk about what would be a meaningful way to acknowledge the pain and trauma suffered by the family and that would be to pass legislation to address the issues and policing in the country. i think over the years you have seen a number of, you know, the whole country or globally recognizing what i think many in the african-american community have been saying for quite some time. that is our community is being brutalized and often killed by police and there is little to no accountability. the fact that is unconscionable and i think the video and having

the world see officer derek chauvin sitting on the neck of george floyd, with a look on his face that he would not be held accountable, has made it impossible for folks to really ignore that anymore. you can't look at that video without being outraged at the complete indifference for the life of another human. i think you are seeing that. you are seeking folks recognizing the frequency with which it happens. killing of a young man during the trial, when you see what happened in elizabeth city. just recently when you go back and look at the killings that were happening at or around the same time george floyd was killed it is undeniable this is a problem.

we really have to deal with and must deal with it. host: what would be meaningful legislation? what does it have to include? guest: for us we are pretty clear that the legislation has to include accountability framework. what we shared is that there is a three legged stool of accountability we think is really critical to be in legislation. that is qualified immunity reform, revising section 242, and a national registry of police conduct. the national registry was to prevent officers who have records of misconduct from being able to move to another city and simply join another police department without that department knowing or being aware were being held accountable if they do hire him

or her with his or her previous misconduct. section 242 would prevent -- make it less difficult to actually prosecute a police officer for illegal conduct. qualified immunity would allow families to actually pursue civil liability against police officers and eliminate the shield that is often used by law officers to, you know, keep families from pursuing civil liability when it is clear they violated the rights of individuals. host: lisa cylar barrett with us until the bottom of the hour. phone lines as usual. democrats (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, independents (202)-748-8002.

for folks who do not know ldf, what is it? guest: the legal defense and education fund, thank you for asking. we are the oldest in the country founded by thurgood marshall. we have been separate from the naacp from -- we continue to fight for equality using all the tools in our toolbelt so to speak. we are primarily a legal organization and use it to fight for equality. we do a tremendous amount of policy work at the state, local and federal level. we have public education and research through the thurgood marshall institute.

we are constantly trying to protect and advance the civil rights of individuals, particularly black individuals, in the country. host: on the police reform issue how involved have you been with legislators who are involved in discussions with cory booker? have you talked to him? have you talked to senator tim scott? guest: we certainly talked with folks on the hill both the house and senate side to share our views about what we think is critical and important. we were happy to see the bill pass the house and we think the bill that passed the house should pass the senate. it does include the accountability framework i mentioned and we think that is really critical and it is time for change. as you asked at the top what

difference, this will make a difference. this is what will provide the type of accountability we need to see and remove the barriers that allow police to act with impunity. certainly not saying george floyd's act will solve all of the problems but it is a critical motion. it is a critical piece to addressing this. host: taking calls already. this is bill in north carolina, republican. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. host: what is your question or comment for ms. barrett? caller: there is a real simple answer for the problem we are having in this country. no matter what profession there

is there are bad and nasty people in all professions. but the policeman have the hardest job there is in the world because they are in danger every time they go out. i will tell you my solution to the problem and give you the practical experience that happened to me last year coming back from a dance with a friend of mine. we were stopped for no reason, but it was a good reason, dui stopping. there were six or 10 cars in front of us. it was midnight at the police came up to me and said, can i see your license? i said yes, here it is. he said did you drink anything? no we went. he said i think you can go now. i said before i go can i say something? he came back and looked at me funny because he didn't know what i was going to say but i thanked him for stopping me and he said why would you thank me for stopping you?

because you might have saved someone's life tonight. someone could have been drunk and killed somebody and that is why i thank you for stopping me. that's all i have to say. common sense. be nice. host: common sense, be nice. guest: i guess i would say i certainly appreciate the caller sharing his experience. what we are talking about is a systemic problem where police officers act with impunity. i would say, in the case of george floyd, he was handcuffed, there was a point at which he was clearly not resisting, and derek chauvin continued to kneel on his neck. in the cases where police officers shoot individuals in the back, that's not an instant of them not acting nice. they are being attacked and

there is a great indifference to their life. in the case of tamir rice in cleveland, my hometown, you have a child who was playing in a playground or recreation area that was shot and killed. that's not an instance of an individual not being nice and their interactions with an officer. certainly appreciate that there are interactions with officers that don't result in death, but we cannot deny that disproportionately the interaction with police officers for people of color result in death. we have to address that. we cannot just ignore it. host: one of the issues -- one of the pieces of the george floyd act is promoting the use of body cameras. this is what mona and south dakota writes via text messaging. we must all come to the

conclusion committing a crime cannot result in a death sentence in the streets. police cannot be judge and jury. the use of deadly force is only acceptable in cases of self-defense or saving the life of another, even for police. she writes i'm sad that in the 30 years since rodney king it took cameras for us to believe the depths of these systemic problems. guest: yes, i absolutely agree. i can't express enough the idea that we would continue to see videos of police misconduct and not feel the need to urgently address that. there must be something done about that. as traumatized -- and i think we all saw and the witnesses during the derek chauvin trial -- traumatized as the witnesses were for what they saw and what

they were and were not able to do in terms of offering aid to mr. floyd, we owe thanks to them for standing there and having the courage to voice concern and record what was happening. i don't know we would know what happened with mr. floyd had they not done that. so we are now seeing, as i said, what many in the black community and other communities of color have been saying for quite some time and we have to do something to address that. if we see this as a country and don't do something to address that, what does that say about who we are? that we would allow this to go on? host: newport news, virginia this is dana, a democrat. caller: good morning. host: what is your question or comment for miss barrett? caller: i wanted to relate an

incident that happened to me. i owned a fancy car, and mercedes 500sl, and got stopped a mile from where they say the incident occurred. the first question the officer asked me was what was my level of education which i did not understand. them when i explained i had a bachelor's degree he was passive-aggressive. he ended up giving me a ticket. it took me three times going to court to get the ticket -- well, to be the case. there have been several other incidents. being a black person is very frustrating to live in the type of society we live in today. i recently watched the rodney king trial. the trial itself was devastating to watch but the remarks made by the white men before and during and after that trial and they

were all acquitted. it was mind-boggling. host: what brought you to watching that trial again after all these years? caller: one, we have come some ways but so far away where we need to be that it is still happening now in 2021. it is not just the fact these things occurred, it is the no accountability. those men should be retried what they did to rodney king. they should be retried. we are so fed up with watching things on tv and living in a society and being subjected to these things every single day. unless you are subjected to this every single day of your life from the time i have been born, i have had to deal with these racial issues. you have posttraumatic stress disorder living in the united states of america. host: ms. barrett?

guest: i couldn't agree more and wanted to empathize with the caller for her experience. i think black people and people of color in this country do live in terror when we have to live in fear about how an altercation or interaction with law enforcement may turn out. when parents have to have the talk with their sons and daughters about what to do and not to do if they are stopped by a police officer. you have to have that talk with young people and worry about how that is going to impact them. how that is going to cause them to have fear as they go about their daily lives of being a regular teenager. they now have to have this added

concern that being stopped for some minor offense, such as what we saw with duante wright, being stopped for having something hanging from his mirror result in his death. that is unacceptable. the video that we saw a few weeks ago with nazario in virginia who was a member of the armed forces being stopped and having weapons drawn and really aggressive behavior immediately as they approached the car. that is the reality that people of color are living every day. again, it is unacceptable. i am so glad the caller mentioned the trauma and psychological impact of it because we need to acknowledge that that is happening. even for folks who may not individually, directly have that experience knowing i am a member

of this community that is viewed in this way by law enforcement and is more often than others results in deadly force has a traumatic effect on people. we need to acknowledge that impact. again, i don't know what is says about our country if we don't address the issues and now it is clearly and plainly in the face of everyone in this country and around the world. host: about 10 minutes left this morning with lisa cylar barrett, director of policy at the naacp legal defense and education fund. naacpldf.org if you want to find them online. you talked at the top what you want to see in a federal police reform bill. as these negotiations continue we are hearing the qualified immunity piece, of one of the key sticking points of these

negotiations, would you be ok with some set of compromise on qualified immunity? possibly a limited qualified immunity repeal allowing officers to be held accountable up to a certain amount of money and departments picking up the rest? is there some sort of middle ground on qualified immunity? guest: the devil is always in the details. we received this question a couple of times and what i said is that we would need to see the language. it is critical that we remove the barriers to accountability for officers. the barriers to hold officers accountable for their actions and qualified immunity is one of those barriers. we would not be interested in a bill that does not remove that barrier for liabilities for police officers.

again, if there is some specific language, we would need to take a look at that. it does need to address the issue of allowing for an immediate sort of barrier to trial proceedings. what qualified immunity does is excludes a family or those who have been violated from even having the trial or presenting their case and that just should not be. host: one question on the idea of police funding. headline from npr, civil rights group calls on the justice department to suspend local police grant. explain what is happening in your group's involvement. guest: we sent a letter to the department of justice basically asking for them to vigorously

enforce title vi to stop or pause any grants to police departments and really do a review of police departments to make sure they are not violating title vi which says recipients of federal funds cannot be engaged in discrimination. we think it is a powerful tool that is underutilized and we hope to see that change. the letter was asking for that, that there be a review of police departments, that there be a review. we are asking the department of justice to re-implement pattern investigations which have been largely absent the last four years.

to really take on the role that was meant for the department of justice and protecting the civil rights of folks throughout the country and use every tool they have to make sure this behavior and practice and systemic problems does not continue with police departments across the country. host: time for a few more calls. nikki is in new york, independent. good morning. caller: can you hear me? host: yes, sir. caller: good morning, lisa and john, thank you for c-span. i would like two things. i would like to give a shout out to -- do you remember the anniversary of tulsa? wall street, black wall street? guest: the massacre. caller: it is the anniversary of

that sad occasion. racism is prevalent. . what i love about joe biden's you have to change people's hearts. you must change people's hearts. the way i learned we are all the same -- i spent several years in prison where i was the minority. the majority of the people in prison are black individuals and a lot of them are there because they were more heavily prosecuted than other people. statistics can lie. when you live 32 inches away from a black man, not a white guy, and i'm old. i didn't really start interacting with black people until i was 14 years old. forgive me if i am not hip on

everything, but unless we change our hearts and seek the truth about what is going on -- i have been treated very well by police officers and i tell you the vast majority of police officers are good. they do not sign up to be cruel or inhuman but there are many who use that tool, use that gun, use the weapons they have two take out their frustrations on the world because maybe their old lady is cheating on them or maybe their dog bit them because the dog doesn't even like the. but the majority of police officers are good. host: we will let you jump in. guest: thank you to the caller for raising the tulsa race massacre. it is quickly approaching --

host: on this program on memorial day we are spending 90 minutes on that topic from special guests from tulsa author hannibal johnson. we will take your phone calls on it to show some of the history before, during, and after the tulsa race massacre. that will air on c-span and american history c-span3. ms. barrett, i will let you finish. guest: that is wonderful and we will make sure to calendar that. thank you for highlighting the centennial. we do work in tulsa as part of the justice and public safety campaign. we work very closely with tiffany crutcher who is the parent of terrence crutcher who was killed by police and we released to the report of police in tulsa and the call to transform public safety.

couldn't agree with the caller more about the need for folks to educate themselves about what's happening in this country, to pay attention to the news but also do your own investigation and learning so that you are fully aware of what is undergirding with police in this country and the history of race and racism and how that feeds into this problem with policing. we are seeing communities of color, black people in particular, have disproportionately having interactions with police result in death. host: last call this is brian out of triangle, virginia, republican. you are on with lisa cylar barrett.

caller: good morning. couple of comments and something i would like your feedback on. as somebody who has been watching what has gone on the past few years i feel like there is a problem in the black community with complete lack of respect for law enforcement. the vast majority of cases i have seen involve people resisting, people not complying with simple commands, and nobody is talking about this. it is perpetuating this idea it is because of racism. america is probably one of the, if not the least racist country, in the world. i am married to a black woman. she was born and raised in ethiopia and i have a mixed race son. one woman called earlier and said living in fear and i believe you mentioned it is sad parents have to talk to their kids about how to in direct

law enforcement. that is not happening. i talked to my son all the time about how to interact with law enforcement and let's be honest, if you are having an interaction of law enforcement, it's probably because you did something wrong. host: ms. barrett, we will give you the final minute. guest: wow. so much to address. i think knowing the history of this country you can't deny there are issues this country has and a history with regard to race. we have amendments that were enacted because of the history of this country regarding race. what we are seeing in terms of disproportionate impacts or attacks on civil rights or

violation of civil rights are most often based on race. there is a disproportionate impact based on race. i appreciate the caller's sentiment. i don't think the majority of black people have lack of respect for law enforcement. they have a genuine and reasonable, i would say reasonable, concern about interactions with law enforcement based on what you have seen in the communities that can result from interactions with law enforcement. no one is saying every interaction is a negative interaction but what we are saying is there is a systemic problem given the disproportionate number of interactions for people in the african-american community that results in death or result in brutalization, beating, dragging

as we have seen with -- just of the last few days -- of ronald greene in louisiana. i think the video, the testimonies, the real life stories pushback against this idea that it is not happening. we are seeing it happen for ourselves and i would say, respectfully, the conversations black parents have to have with their children are beyond just how to properly behave. it is a conversation around we need to make sure you come home alive. and the issue is police don't get to be judge and jury and

executioner. they are charged with enforcing or upholding the law but they do not get to be judge, and jury, and executioner. that is not their role. that is not the intent of their role and it should not result in the deaths we are seeing across the country. host: we will end the conversation there this morning. lisa cylar barrett, policy director of the naacp legal defense and education fund. i hope you come back and have another conversation down the road. guest: i would love to. thank you so much. host: thank you for your time. up next, we get law enforcement perspective on police reform. we will be joined by steve casstevens, former president of the international association of chiefs of police. we will be right back. ♪

♪ announcer: on sunday, june 6 historian and journalist max hastings will be our guest on in-depth. >> there was humiliation upon the most powerful power. the stairway of which on the evening of the 29th of april fugitives ascended to a rooftop helicopter, securing a place among the symbolic images. for me, as from a generation of war correspondents, the struggle was among the foremost experiences of our careers. i was one of those who flew out of the u.s. embassy on that tumultuous, terrifying day. announcer: his most recent book is of a good operation pedestal."

-- "operation pedestal." join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts and tweets on in-depth at noon eastern on sunday. join in on july 4 with colds or prize-winning historian annette gordon reed on book tv on c-span2. ♪ announcer: washington journal continues. host: we welcome back steve casstevens, recently serving as president of the chiefs of police international association. good morning. guest: how are you? host: doing well. in the year since george floyd's murder do you think this

conversation around policing reform has been a beneficial one? has it made community safer? has it made police departments better at doing their jobs? guest: i think the conversations are incredibly important and it's good to listen to people's opinions and thoughts on law enforcement. i have been in law enforcement 45 years and i have seen a lot of positive changes, but that doesn't mean we can't have more. i think there is always a good opportunity to evaluate our system and see what we can improve. host: have you seen positive changes when it comes to policing and race and understanding disparities in this country? guest: i do. i have seen many positive changes whether it is policies and procedures for law enforcement agencies, whether it's the amount of training or type of training that police departments see. back when i became a law enforcement officer there was no

training received at the academy or basic training and field training about race relations and things of that nature. i think we have improved a lot of ways and like i said, training and recruiting as well. recruiting is one of the most important factors. host: how is recruiting going in the past year in the wake of a lot of criticism that police departments have received the past year surrounding the conversation? guest: absolutely true and is something that we have been looking at recruiting for quite a few years. we released a report back in september 2019 on the state of recruiting in the law enforcement profession. even back then we were receiving information that nearly 80% of law enforcement agencies across this country were having difficulty in recruiting qualified candidates.

not just in recruiting candidates but qualified candidates. for example, in the chicago area i can easily recall where, 40 years ago, we would have 800 to 1000 applicants and we are currently testing my agency maybe 100 applicants. as i have had conversation with others recently just because i have 100 applicants doesn't mean i have 100 qualified applicants. there is a great conversation which i think is incredibly important right now of recruiting qualified candidates and truly looking for the best of the best. that's difficult to do for a variety of reasons. host: if you want to have that conversation, join this conversation this morning and you can do so on the phone lines. democrats (202)-748-8000, republicans (202)-748-8001, independents (202)-748-8002.

special line for law enforcement which is (202)-748-8003. returning once again to the negotiations over police reform legislation. some sort of compromise bill on capitol hill. what does that look like in your eyes? what is something you could support? guest: interestingly i think there are more things we agree on then disagree on. iecp has agreed on a a variety of police reforms the past years. for example, we released in 2017 our consensus use of force policy that we supported and a lot of those things are just now being talked about. things like officers shall only use force when necessary or objectively reasonable because

we follow the 1980 supreme court ruling. that's discussing use of force and that is the law of the land for law enforcement no matter what agency you work for. we have to remember that in this country we have 18,500 law enforcement agencies employing over 850,000 officers but we have to follow the same rules. many of those are set by supreme court decisions. we also talk about the duty to intervene, we talk about the duty to render aid during an arrest, we talk all use of force should be documented. we have discussed for years the mandatory participation in the national use of force database. i keep pushing in my speeches to law enforcement and police chiefs specifically, we have to participate in the national use

of force database. no statistician will tell you can rely on data if you are only getting 40% to 50% of the data. we need to have 100% contributing to the database. here's why this is so important. a lot of law enforcement agencies don't report to the use of force database because they have not used force that meets the criteria. they are not reporting those zero use of force. that is just as important to the national conversation as when police officers do use force to affect an arrest. those are a lot of things we are pushing including the national standards for discipline and termination of officers, national de-certification database of officers. host: congresswoman karen bass, senator tim scott, senator cory booker are leading the

negotiations. have you or the iacp had a chance to talk to any of those individuals directly about these issues we are talking about? guest: i can say the iacp executive staff and elected leadership, our current president, has spoken with both sides of the aisle and we have continuous conversation on these topics. host: we will let you have a conversation with our callers. beth in tampa, florida, independent. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. yes, i am very concerned. accountability, what happened to people being held accountable for their own actions and not just police officers, not just law enforcement, but society? we are talking of reforming police officers but what about the disobedience we have shown toward laws set forth in this country? what about respect for others

and their property? why are we blaming everything -- it seems like white people and other races have no hard times, we aren't poor, we don't get arrested, we don't get hungry, we don't suffer through abuse or alcoholism. something is not right. host: chief? guest: i will say we have got a lot of ills in our society. many of those are dumped on the doorstep of law enforcement that were never our responsibility before. that could be the separate conversation of why are we involved in drug addiction and homelessness? these are societal issues when society back in the 1950's and 1960's defunded those. what i will say to the caller about respect, my job as a police chief is to make sure everyone of my officers treats

every single person they come into contact with with respect. that should be the mantra of every police chief, every state police director, every sheriff and i think when you look at the numbers of the millions, truly millions, of police-citizen contacts that happen every year in this country 99.9% you will never hear about because they were handled respectfully. host: rick on twitter cuts to the heart of the debate over police reform. what is your position on qualified immunity? guest: great question. qualified immunity is granted to law enforcement officers based on supreme court decisions. there is discussion on qualified immunity and i listen to a lot of talkers on a variety of shows

and news media and social media that i don't think share what qualified immunity means. qualified immunity does not mean a police officer cannot be sued for their actions. it does not mean that at all. there are many police officers who have been personally held accountable for their actions. but that's if they violate the law and the whole point of qualified immunity is if the action a police officer takes during the course of duty was lawful at the time, based on either court decisions or current law, then they should be protected by qualified immunity. that doesn't mean that the city or county or state cannot be sued for variety of reasons but it is the one protection of officers they have. many people forget that our elected officials have absolute immunity. host: now to new york this is

catherine, a democrat. caller: good morning. i would like to bring up the idea of police insurance. the same way our physicians who also have the power of life and death over us and who are human and can make mistakes and they are required to have insurance. why can't the police have policing insurance? with 850,000 people there is enough to start an insurance company. maybe that is the way of saying if you don't qualify for insurance anymore, you cannot be a police person. host: any thoughts? guest: i have heard this type of conversation before and again, i

am not an insurance adjuster and not a city manager but i can easily tell you this. i have spoke with many city managers and mayors on this topic. the reality is -- this is a deeper conversation -- but if qualified immunity were taken away and cities had to buy insurance, let's call it malpractice insurance on every law enforcement officer, there are some cities that would have to fold the police department. they flat out could not afford that unless they had considerable increase in taxes on their citizens which i suspect in most cities would not go over well. host: to vicki in gainesville, texas. good morning. caller: hi. i have an issue with recruitment of police officers. i attended police academy here in town and they were all pretty

nice but i was the only black person that was in that class. the classes they had were few in the past that had attended. they talked about the hiring process and they started with this 35 question application preceded by several other things that the applicant had to, you know, be able to get by in order to be hired. my whole concern was that the questions were pretty pointed. they were, how would i say, culturally biased? the interviewers were all of the police force which i can understand, but they also had biases. as a result really no minorities

were hired. i was concerned about that because i was really kind of treated cruelly for even being there and gone through the experience. host: chief? guest: first of all, it is unfortunate you were made to feel that way and secondly, come to buffalo grove and put your application in here. [laughter] i will tell you this and this is part of the conversation on police recruiting because with over 18,000 law enforcement agencies across the country there are many different rules, including on recruiting. most law enforcement agencies will start the recruitment with a simple application process. it will then transition to an orientation and then into a written test and then an oral interview with some police board or commission. then there has to be a physical fitness test, there has to be a

medical screening, psychological screening and polygraph. a very intense background and then successfully complete the academy and then go through field training and have an 18 month probation. it is not a simple process but it's not supposed to be a simple process because again, our society demands our law enforcement officers be the best and i want every officer that works for me to be the best. i don't want mediocre officers. i want the diamonds in the rough, the best that we can find to serve the citizens of our community and i know every police chief feels that way. that's when the process takes so long. the conversation of minorities in recruiting, that's a great conversation because that is something that is always near and dear to my heart. we have a number of minorities on the buffalo grove police

department but at the end of the day the police officers on your agency should be reflective of the community they serve. if you have a very high black community, you should expect a number of black officers on your department. if you have a high asian community, you should expect there are asian officers. the fact of the matter is whenever i have this conversation in my community and people say you should have more minority officers, my answer is send them my way. if you know someone who is a minority that to be an officer, please send them my way and i will discuss with them the process and i will do everything i can to help them be successful. host: are you saying right now you don't believe your agency reflects your community in buffalo grove yucca guest: we do. minority officers. we actually have a high percentage of female officers but we have black officers, hispanic officers, asian officers.

think we are incredibly reflective. host: from the new iacp survey on factors driving the police recruitment crisis in this country, showing our viewers some of those factors that are of concern, what we haven't touched on his generational differences. guest: well, that is a great topic because people kind of wonder what that means. what that means is when i became a police officer and the generation when i started in the 1970's and early 1980's officers were so dedicated to the job that they put every hour in that they could to learn and work overtime. this over the years was to the detriment of officers and quite often lead to high suicide rates, high divorce rates among officers because that's all they did.

the current generation, they are looking at work differently. they are saying i'm not interested in the overtime. it is more important for me to spend quality time with my family, quality time with other things away from work. quite often we get in a situation where current generations, you're are going to force me to work overtime? if you force the door holidays because when i started i worked 11 years before i got christmas or new year's off to spend with my family. the generation of would-be candidates look at that in say, you know what? that's not for me. host: few more minutes left with steve casstevens, the chief of the buffalo grove police department in illinois. we will take your calls until 10:00 a.m. when we are heading over to the hearing before the house appropriations subcommittee looking into the

2021-2022 budget request of the national institutes of health. dr. francis collins and dr. anthony fauci will be testifying. stick around on c-span if you want to watch that or c-span.org and the free c-span radio app. back to your phone calls. this is clyde in san antonio, texas, independent. caller: good morning to you both. my interest is in specifically giving an example of a few questions. how do you psychologically vet these police officers? also, do you have access to what platforms on the internet they have been engaged with? also, i understand former military people are recruited or hired by police departments and

do you have access to their psychological records or records in general while they were in the military? thank you. host: thank you for the question. guest: all great questions. first of all, being former military myself we, like most police agencies, give extra preference to candidates who have served in the military. they do make their records available to us. we do not have access to any psychological testing that may or may not have been done by the military but every police department in this country, as part of the process i enumerated earlier of medical screens, polygraph, psychological screenings, we send all our candidates through polygraph testing and psychological screening with a private agency. people who are smarter than me who have phds who do this process and we rely on them. their profession does this for

police and fire agencies. we rely on them to do this screening. i think it's incredibly important because we go back to the earlier conversation, people in this country want the best police officers serving their communities. they don't want me to hire someone with issues in the past with either alcoholism or mental health issues or theft or lying on their application. all of these things we have to sort through when we do intensive background a best occasion and psychological screening. host: what about having access to a candidate's search history on the internet? the rising importance of social media. how much do you check that out as you're going through the screening process? guest: we absolutely do a check through any social media whether they are using facebook, twitter, etc. we cannot demand, like, some

agencies in the past they demand the candidate to give their passwords. but if anything is publicly available, we do look at that. i had a question not long ago from a reporter who asked, hey, do you know of any officers that were in washington, d.c. for the insurrection and how do you know any of your officers don't belong to these radical groups? well, that's a great question. none of these radical groups post their membership list on social media. but we certainly do look at social media to see if there's any indicators any of our candidates we are looking at may belong to any of those type of groups. host: david in kansas on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning to both of you. i have a couple of things i wanted to mention.

why haven't the police gone to a national license like they do with truck drivers like the cdls? as a police officer when you do something wrong and you get fired you just go to the next department to get hired on. that's horrible. also, i wanted to bring up the fact these awards that are given to people brutalized by police officers, which is happening more and more all the time, these awards -- they are paid for by the taxpayers. the police themselves are not being punished for this. i believe what should happen rather than insurance, which the police would get the taxpayers to foot the bill for the

insurance so they will not be punished, so why don't we take the awards out of the retirement funds? if that were to happen and somebody gets a $10 million award and it comes out of the retirement fund for the police department in the police department has to foot the bill, each cop has to pay $200 or $300 a month out of their own retirement for that other officer's indiscretions, that would cause the police themselves to start policing themselves. host: chief? guest: first of all, let me talk about the de-edification which i believe he is talking about -- de-certification which i believe he is talking about. every state has their own criteria on how they would

decertify an officer whether he is found guilty of a crime, fired or terminated during an investigation for some reason. that officer can be decertified by their state training board. that's what happens in illinois. but not every state has the same rules and there really isn't a good single database that someone can go to and can be sure an officer from any of the 50 states who left the police department who has truly been decertified has made the national database list. that's one of the things we agree upon. as a police chief i don't want an officer i terminated go to another police department in another state and be hired as an officer. nobody wants that. that's incredibly important to our profession to make sure we continue to support that national decertification database. regarding the other topic, i

understand with the caller was saying but let's remember this. the more roadblocks that we throw into the process of becoming a police officer the less we are going to have who wo become a police officer. and if we have legislation that says you are going to be sued personally and civilly for something that happened, we can go back to the qualified immunity topic, you will not have any people who want to be police officers. what you see across this country, if you look at states like minnesota and the major cities are losing hundreds of officers who were either retiring early or leaving the profession that says it is not worth it for me anymore. you are seeing a mass exodus of good officers leaving this profession. and we have to make sure that that does not happen, because we have to make sure we are

protecting our community. host: as we wait for the hearing to begin, time for just one or two more calls if you do not mind. nelson, st. louis. a democrat. morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i have a question about -- you mentioned overtime earlier. shouldn't there be hours of service just like there is for truck drivers? we have police officers now that serve there eight hours or whatever and then they go work security somewhere else, but when they come back on the job a lot of them are tired. i have had a discussion with police officers come back on duty and just do not get there rest. there should be hours of service laws for police officers at a minimum. i do not disagree with you about what you said about the insurance. right now in the cities, the cities are paying those awards anyway, so just like doctors,

the hospitals do not pay their insurance, they have to pay themselves. host: chief. guess: hours of service -- guest: hours of service, you have had discussions about them. it is exacerbated right now because we have a number of officers even -- either leaving the profession or going onto a different profession, or a lack of candidates. we have so many law enforcement agencies across this country who are understaffed right now, which forces officers to work more overtime to keep their minimum staffing. yes, that contributes to burnout. it would be great for me as a police chief to say i do not want my officers to work anything more than eight hours. sadly, that is not reality. i have to protect the citizens of my community and force my officers to work overtime. there are many agencies with a policy of a maximum number of

hours that you can work is 16 hours, which is essentially a double eight hour shift. or, as many police departments working 12 hours and then a half shift after that. i do not want my officers working more hours than that either because of exactly what this caller said. your officers will be tired and force to make decisions that they might not be prepared to make. host: he is the fourth president of the international association of pleat -- chiefs of police. we always appreciate your time. we will see you down the road. host: we take you over to the house appropriations committee and a hearing on the budget request for the national institutes of health is underway. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> we will move to the next member until the issue is resolved, and you will retain the balance of your time. you will notice a clock on your screen, that will show how much time is remaining. at one minute