covid-19 relief programs for small business. choice. it all starts with great internet. >> wow supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> this morning on washington journal, wall street journal reporter michelle hackman gives us a preview of today's congressional hearing with homeland security secretary alessandra mayorkas and century foundation senior fellow andrew stettner talks about the role of

unemployment insurance during the pandemic and the move by some republican governors to cut benefits. former north carolina governor pat mccrory talks about his experience with unemployment insurance while serving as governor. host: good morning. it is wednesday, may 26. more than 37 million americans are expected to travel for memorial day weekend, a 60% jump since last year, but still fewer than 2019. those who do travel will be testing the leisure and hospitality industry. our question is whether you feel comfortable traveling for leisure or business. if you do, (202) 748-8000. if you do not, (202) 748-8001.

we want to hear from those who work in the hospitality industry today. that number (202) 748-8002. you can send us a text at (202) 748-8003. if you do, include your name and where you are from. otherwise, catch up with us on social media. on twitter, @cspanwj. on facebook, facebook.com/c-span. you can start calling in now. i want to take you to the morning consult tracking the return to normal poll looking at the issue of travel. 60% of adults feel comfortable taking a vacation, a record high. since april of 2020, when they were asking that, it rarely moved above 30%. it mostly climbed from february through may this year, reaching 60% this week.

americans most comfortable traveling in cars. 74% comfortable taking a road trip. 44% comfortable with domestic flights. major hotel chains garner the highest comfort levels as boutiques and home sharing struggle to close the gap. we are talking about leisure and business travel. we especially want to hear from those in the hospitality industry this morning. those workers were the focus of a senate commerce committee hearing yesterday on travel and tourism. senator jacky rosen, the chair of that panel, talking about the pandemic's impact on the hospitality industry in nevada. [video clip] sen. rosen: the hospitality industry. covid decimated tourism. the sector was the largest contributor to waged salary employment -- waged and salaried

employment. in 2020, the leisure and hospitality sector employed over 556,000 workers in a state with a population of a little over 3 million. they have probably borne the brunt of unemployment in nevada. according to the bureau of labor statistics nationwide, leisure and hospitality last 2.8 million jobs during the pandemic and have yet to return. this represents more than 25% of all unemployed persons in the u.s. none never said of businesses in nevada that are small businesses -- 99 percent of businesses in nevada that are small businesses have struggled, all too often disproportionately impacted by economic slowdowns and left behind and economic -- in economic recoveries. i: my colleagues here today to

not lucite on the fact -- i call on my colleagues here today to not lose sight of the fact that we are not fully past the pandemic. we will build back better but it will take time and it will take investment. host: senator rosen yesterday in the senate commerce committee hearing. some numbers just to show the impact by states on the loss of leisure and hospitality jobs. this is the share of workers in that sector by state. nevada far and away the state with the largest share of workers in leisure and hospitality, followed by states like new mexico and montana and california and others. we are setting aside a special line this morning for those who work in the leisure and hospitality business as we talk about people's comfort in traveling.

a few more stats from the bureau of labor and statistics on the unemployment rate in that sector specifically. it was at 11% as of the april 2021 bls for work compared -- bls report compared to 6.2% overall. down significantly from april of 2020, when it was at 39% nationwide. the average wage in the sector is $17.88 an hour. we will start on the line for those who work in the hospitality sector. this is deandre out of miami. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for c-span. god bless everyone listening. . i have been in the hospitality industry for about two years now. miami is open, so the hospitality industry in florida

is seeing an increase even though they cut down on labor. so it has been working out in florida. the turnover rate is crazy, though. it has been affecting people in their personal lives. host: what specific job do you do? caller: i work on the front desk and i am a beach attendant, so i have two jobs at the hotel. we are busy right now. we don't have any bellmen, but there are still people coming in. host: did you see your hours reduced or did you get laid off at all during the past 14 months? caller: last year, i got laid off working in the restaurant industry. the restaurant industry got hit hard. all the cooks and servers got laid off march or april of last year. then i started working in the hospitality industry.

hotels work hiring and not -- motels were hiring and not laying that many people off. they fired bellmen and things like that, but there is demand for every hotel in florida. host: how much will you be working this weekend? caller: i need to get some more rest, get prepared, give the best hospitality i can, follow the guidelines, the rules and stuff. the guidelines and regulations are i would say for the most part very under control. now there are people coming out of town. they try to enforce it. it is pretty good down here. it is affecting not much of anything. host: how strict will you be at the front desk if someone walks in without a mask?

caller: we cannot do business -- every store, at least in miami, no mask, no service. host: thanks for the call from miami, florida. more from that commerce committee meeting yesterday on the state of florida. republican senator rick scott on the pandemic's impact in his state. [video clip] sen. scott: i know this pandemic has impacted each of us differently and our small businesses differently. we have had to make sure our families, employees and businesses stay safe. this has severely hurt the tourism and travel industries, which comes with a chain of impacts to restaurants, small businesses and families. chair rosen has seen the same thing in nevada. in order for our state and nation to fully reopen, we have to continue to work together. i have been hearing from many

small businesses in florida struggling to find workers to fill open jobs because they are competing with enhanced unemployment benefits. i have supported targeted aid, but i have been clear that the american government should not be paying to not go back to work. i will always work to support our small businesses, get americans back to work and get our economy fully opened. we have to make sure we help those that still need our help. host: senator rick scott yesterday in that commerce committee hearing talking about enhanced unemployment insurance and concerns among republicans about whether that's creating a disincentive. the lead story in the washington times today -- states offering back to work bonuses, governments axing federal unemployment benefits, using them to incentivize workers.

more on that topic later in our program today in our 8:00 and none :00 a.m. hours with a couple guests, andrew stettner of the century foundation and pat mccrory, current north carolina senate canada and former governor. stick around for that. asking you if you are comfortable traveling for leisure or business at this point. john in virginia, you say yes. where are you headed? caller: hey, john. great to have c-span still on the air. thank you for taking my call. i think the main reason is because i have been vaccinated into has been more than 14 days since my first and only shot -- it was johnson & johnson -- but in addition to that, i have also been working.

not in the hospitality industry. i have been working in the pandemic since january. i am used to being out in risky situations. i understand people may have pre-existing conditions and may not feel comfortable traveling around and i totally get that, but i would say just because i have been out there since the beginning of the year, and now i am fully vaccinated, that i am comfortable traveling. host: mark out of california also saying yes to the question of whether you are comfortable yet. caller: hello. i am perfectly fine and comfortable traveling at this time. i work in the hospitality industry and i say that because not only do i personally feel that way but i just took the night auditor at a hotel and i do the monthly statistics. i did them tonight. the rest of the year for

thursday, friday, saturday, sunday is sold out, sold out, sold out, sold out. people are comfortable. i have guests walking around the hotel without masks. the hotel still makes me wear a mask. i feel kind of dumb now doing it, but that's our policy. people are coming around, doing wine tours. restaurants. things are looking great. host: mark, since you get to see the books, this concern that some have expressed that there's not enough people going back to jobs right now for what employers want, is your hotel having any trouble filling spots? caller: well, kind of. kind of, yes, because some of the housekeepers we have, especially in the housekeeping

department, where they were absolute professionals at tending to the rooms and getting them to look spectacular, it is really hard to find people like that at this time to match that job. the other thing is bellmen. the employees are usually younger. not so much. host: mark, thanks for the call this morning. it is (202) 748-8000 if you feel comfortable traveling or plan to travel over the memorial day holiday. take us what plans you are making, where you might be headed. if you are not comfortable traveling still, also want to hear from you. (202) 748-8001. that special line for those who work in the hospitality industry, let us know your stories this morning, what has changed for you, especially in the past year. (202) 748-8002 is the number. helen is on that line in dalton, georgia. good morning. you are next. host: yes --

caller: yes. i am a travel advisor and i can say that the public is very trackable -- is very eager to travel. we have seen an increase in business over the last month or so that is quite unprecedented. host: helen, what has it been like for a travel advisor over the past 14 months up until now? caller: very difficult. for the first year, the commissions -- i work on commission only, and because i am an independent contractor, the loss of commission was over $2000 a month because i sell a lot of cruises, and of course the crews industry was shut down and all the business that i had booked for the whole coming year went down the drain, so now i am seeing that the demand for

cruises, especially in 2022, is huge. host: how long do you think it will take you to make up for that lost year? caller: at least the rest of this year. i have a lot -- several -- a lot of business coming in for the end of the year. people have been very reluctant to travel before i would say fall. also, the cdc has really targeted, i think unfairly, the crews industry and shut it down much -- the cruise industry and shut it down much longer than other businesses were shut down. and they just gave the go-ahead to start sailing this summer. one of the worst markets hit was the alaska market because there is a very outdated law that requires a cruise line, if they

depart from a port in the united states, they cannot return to a u.s. port until they have stopped at a foreign port. canada has been closed for all cruising and continues to be closed. host: how much confusion is there out there among clients about, when i am on these trips that i am booking with you, when do i have to wear a mask and when don't do i have to wear a mask? is there mass confusion now? -- is there mask confusion now? caller: i have seen more mask confusion on a local basis. the airlines and cruise lines are specific about what they require. host: helen in dalton, georgia, good luck. yesterday at the senate commerce committee hearing --

an exchange between marsha blackburn. [video clip] sen. blackburn: you said guidance can be viewed as conflicting. i talked about why it is imperative that these federal agencies get on the same page so we can get this travel opened up. we have cma week. it usually takes place that first week of june and nashville -- and nashville. it is a big international destination. >> thank you, senator. yes. the specific conflicts i was speaking to were protocols dealing with the virus and the cdc comes out periodically and updates this chart and it is really what the news media uses to communicate where we are and what is safe, what is not safe,

and the inconsistency between the messaging from the cdc and what the department of transportation says and, finally, how osha apparently is chasing what the cdc is doing trying keep up but unable to. but these federal agencies need to be on board. if we are going to communicate how to stay safe, let's all be on the same page. host: that senate commerce committee hearing, if you want to watch in its entirety, you can at our website, c-span.org. we are talking about your level of comfort with traveling for leisure or business at this point. if you are comfortable, (202) 748-8000. if you are not, (202) 748-8001. and we want to hear the stories of those who work in the hospitality industry. (202) 748-8002.

comments on social media. on twitter, gary saying, prices up. i travel weekly and my expenses have increased dramatically. thanks, joe. no fear of travel but more expensive. another saying i will travel from the kitchen to the living room. i don't know or trust most people. and mlb saying car travel, yes. plane travel, no. i will probably stick to chain restaurants. the attitudes of the governors of certain states will determine whether we visit that state or not. another -- i have been traveling and working. i do not live in fear. john, bedford, new jersey, you say you are comfortable traveling. go ahead. caller: i have been traveling mainly -- i have a relative in

massachusetts. he's having difficulty driving. he has a medical condition. i had to visit him in october of last year and also in december. we picked him up and brought him back. we went to the restaurants and everything. it seemed to be fine. last fall, we had no trouble going to restaurants, except for one was closed, our favorite one. however, my brother is saying he is now going to the restaurant that had been reopened and they have signs up -- "sorry about the inconvenience." that kind of thing. based on a small sample, i think the $300 extra in benefits is stopping people from going back to work. i went to a restaurant down here in jersey a week ago and they were training a girl probably

just out of high school, so i think they are having trouble hiring people. i have a granddaughter who works for wawa down in jersey and she says she is resentful of these people coming in that cam work but don't because they are making more money than she is. host: thank you. the numbers overall in the leisure and hospitality sector, 2.7 million fewer jobs in april 2021 then in january of 2020. here are the latest numbers from the april 2021 jobs report, the biggest gains in what was overall a disappointing jobs are work from april -- jobs report from april 2021 per the biggest gains or in leisure and hospitality.

31,000 -- 331 jobs added. the next closest would be jobs in government at 48,000 jobs. we are not far away from another jobs report coming out. we will find out what happened in those sectors. we want to hear this morning whether you feel comfortable traveling and whether you are in the leisure and hospitality industry. mike, what do you do? caller: i have done so many things. i worked my way through college working at a fantastic restaurant, went on to get multiple college degrees, never left the hospitality business. the hospitality business is something that's in people's dna. they are at home and they are with their children and they are thinking about the time they spent away from their family. when you are in the hospitality business, you see a lot of

people with their family, but i think when people return to the hospitality business and see people in person again, they are going to be feeling like themselves. they will feel fantastic. they love the personal interaction. zoom and all of that is not the same, so i say somehow fast-track people into the industry. i live in a really safe state because we have been diligent. we are a state where we are probably the bluest state and we have a republican governor that everybody loves, so everybody is working so hard together and i think we will see an explosion here in vermont. host: how do you fast-track people into the industry? is there an incentive to do that? as one of the other colors pointed out and rick scott pointed out in the whip we showed -- other callers pointed

out and rick scott pointed out in the clip we showed, is extra unemployment a disincentive for people returning? caller: my wife for 15 years stayed home and took care of my kids. i am very fortunate, but i can say that once they know their children are safe, which means may be money towards childcare, some kind of bonus to come back, once they are back and they know their children are safe and schools are safe, they will be back for probably the rest of their lives. host: mike, thanks for the call from vermont this morning. more comments on social media. this is marilyn in las vegas saying travel ok with a vaccine and a mask. frank is saying i am vaccinated and ready to go. i have a condo rented at the beach for a week in july. don't care to fly yet.

mary says i have an autoimmune disease and don't know how fully protected people like me are. another from michael, saying, yes, ready to travel in my own car on scenic, unpopulated routes. cows are much better company than people. i have never seen a cow with a hyperinflated ego. asking you to call in as well. (202) 748-8000 if you are comfortable traveling at this point. (202) 748-8001 if you are not comfortable traveling at this point. if you work in the hospitality industry, (202) 748-8002. jennifer in oak park, illinois works in the hospitality industry. what do you do? caller: i bartend. i serve. i also work in here and

cosmetology. -- in hair and cosmetology. i have been in the industry since 1997. the man from new jersey was saying servers are going back. the average server pay in new jersey is three dollars an hour, so i mean, if they are actually making more, they are living in some major poverty, especially considering what the average apartment or mortgages in america. -- were mortgage is in -- or mortgage is in america. you can't stay at home and pay rent. people come in and they are just awful. they don't care.

they treat you like you are a sex object or you are their slave or they are demeaning. it seems like everyone is focusing on hospitality and saying we are so lazy. we are the ones who work for 14 hours a day no break for less than minimum wage and then we have to depend on all these people who are saying these things about us, like we are lazy, you know, to tip us. it seems kind of obvious why no one is running back, even though it don't think that's true. i live in chicago. hospitality is never coming back. host: on that tipping issue you bring up, there was a focus on that, being generous in your tips during the pandemic for those going in and working jobs. what is your sense of tipping during the pandemic and as we work our way out of it?

caller: that hasn't happened. i am on three different websites for the chicago area. there's one that's international or whatever and people post up there there receipts -- there the receipts. people are tipping so little. it is not worth the. my friend the other day, after tipping out, made four dollars. and she did not get paid hourly because she made money. we never pay taxes -- or we do. she makes four dollars for the next five days. a lot of people are leaving. host: have you ever thought about leaving the industry? caller: yeah. i am in my last week of real estate school now. i did go to cosmetology school

and i really liked it because i love working with people, but i think after 20 years, it became almost like a cop or an emt. you deal with the public and they can be really awful. it can really get you down. people go back -- they are the hugest part of hospitality, so the longer you want to get them out of work, the longer it will be until you get your suit. host: good luck. denise in new jersey, good morning. on the line for those who are ready to travel. caller: yes. i am ready to travel. host: where are you going? caller: i have already made two trips to atlantic city and booked an 11 day crews on december 28. host: what are the restrictions

on that crews? -- cruise. caller: they haven't given us an agenda yet, but i know that it boarding people have to wear a mask. i am not sure about the distancing they will keep, if that is being lifted, but they are always as immaculate as possible with everything that happened. they don't want to lose their business so they have gone overboard. host: one of the full sue chimed in on twitter said i just don't trust -- one of the folks who chimed in on twitter said i just don't trust other people yet when it comes to getting vaccinated or being say. what is your sense of that? caller: i don't trust that everybody who says they are vaccinated is vaccinated. i don't understand that. if you are really of a feeling that you shouldn't, you should say it.

and wear a mask when you are in the presence of others who have already taken the time to get the mask, the shot. i have moderna, post shots, and here we are -- moderna, both shots, and here we are. host: denise in new jersey this morning getting ready for her cruise later this year. your calls. getting ready for 7:30. we have been showing you some of the clips from yesterday's hearing by the senate commerce committee on travel and tour resume and -- and tourism and how the pandemic is impacted that industry. another exchange yesterday between democratic senator amy klobuchar and one of the representatives of the hospitality unions on the impact of the decline in business

on workers of that sector. [video clip] sen. klobuchar: the business is expected to be down 500,000 jobs at the end of 2021 partly due to predicted permanent changes in business travel. even as we get out of the pandemic, there will be this longer transition when it comes to business travel. can you talk about that problem? one report found that half of all u.s. hotel rooms are to remain empty in 2021. what more should we do when it comes to business travel and resolving this problem? host: air appreciate the question. a few thigs. -- a few things. one, tax incentives for business travel should be temporarily looked at because in the kinds

of big hotels in the cities, they rely heavily on business travel, and without that, i think those job projections become very bleak. second, we all worry about a jobless recovery in the hospitality industry because they have made very clear that they are not doing things that have always been part of going to a hotel, charging for that, so that's an issue. the final thing is this. i think that without any question, if you look at almost every major metropolitan area, the first, second and third largest industry is the tourism industry. i think we have to think about how we view those jobs as just as important as manufacturing jobs, just as important as retail jobs. no one very often talks about hospitality jobs, tourism jobs.

it is easy to do that in florida or nevada, but even in minneapolis, tourism is a huge part of that downtown area, so i think we have to change our dialogue on that and do promotions like that and incentives like that like we do in other industries. host: that from the senate commerce committee hearing on tourism, the travel industry. a few headlines from the past couple of days on this topic. we have been talking about the small business administration rolling out ppp loans, asking is the hotel industry next? this from the palm beach post from earlier this month. "florida's hospitality industry, employers need workers, workers need jobs. what is the problem?" exploring that question. we will explore that later today in a couple segments on

unemployment insurance. stick around for that as we hear from rico, college art, maryland -- rico, college park, maryland. what do you do? caller: i worked in the hospitality and travel industry in the dmv, d.c., maryland and virginia. host: doing what? caller: i work for a marketing organization responsible for bringing tourism into the city. host: and his travel and tourism coming into the dmv? caller: yes and no, especially as it relates to d.c.. we just opened as of may 21 and we will be fully reopened june 11, but the issue before with the d.c. area specifically, security wise, i think it was slower than other areas of the country because of what happened on january 6, but with nonstop flights coming into the city

more and it looks like the travel is picking up, but one thing i wanted to mention as it related to hospitality, some things that people don't focus on as much are the meetings and conventions and a lot of hospitality workers are at those conventions and deal with things like legislation and things like that. a lot of them are temporary workers. they have been hit hard in this situation as well because those meetings are not happening. you are not having 30,000 people who come to -- well, that might happen in other areas, but not recently in this area. the economic impact of these conventions, if you have 20,000 people coming, they will need hotels to stay at, restaurants to eat at, and it helps the industry as a whole but that is not happening so once meetings and conventions and people feel comfortable flying for business and leisure, i think that will really help. host: how long do you think that will be?

what is your sense? caller: as far as the meetings and conventions, a lot of was -- a lot of what was scheduled for 2021 has already been canceled. in the fall, some will begin, but as far as the international travel, i don't see that coming back fully until next year at best. host: rico, thanks for the call. for those who work in the hospitality industry, frankie in nashville, tennessee. how are things in nashville these days? caller: it is beginning to pick up. this is a tourist city. downtown is starting to boom, but i wanted to talk about the hospitality industry in general, the real problems in the hospitality industry. i still work there, but i am an entertainer as well as a server.

i was a server for 30 years and the problem with that is that when you get hurt on your job or something happens to you, which is almost impossible to ignore or to get around, and you have to deal with workmen's comp., you would not believe the things you go through. everyone i knew had back problems, shoulder problems, knee problems. this will be a wonderful time for the hospitality industry to restructure itself. there is no way you can lift those heavy trays for 20 or 30 years and not sustained major damage to your spine and back. i look at it now because i'm still around it but from a different standpoint. host: were you ever part of a union? caller: we never had a union.

they couldn't get a union down here. we tried to get a union and it was one of the weirdest things i have ever seen in my life, but i really think if the hotel industry and tourist industry really want to, it is time to restructure and take care of those people. i enjoy guests. i truly love people. i wanted my guests -- my motto was create a memory, so they came back the next year and new be my name nash and -- year and knew me by name, but it is stressful work and you cannot ignore what is happening to your body. host: you said you were in a band or in entertainment. are you in a band? caller: i am not in a band. i play the grand piano. host: and if people want to see you play the grand piano, where can they see you? caller: the old hickory

steakhouse in the opryland hotel. host: sounds like a great thing to do. hope to one day do that, so thank you for the call from nashville this morning. about 20 minutes left in this segment of the washington journal, taking your phone calls. we are hearing from people who work in the hospitality industry and those who say they are ready to travel and those who say they are not. taking you through what is happening up here in washington today. the senate in today at 10:30. the house still out until after the memorial day break. we focused yesterday on the anniversary of the death of george floyd. from the white house yesterday, president biden meeting with the floyd family and family members speaking to cameras after that private meeting with president biden, and president biden

promising again in that meeting to pass some sort of policing reform bill. and speaking of president biden, some news yesterday. he will meet with russian president vladimir putin in switzerland on june 16, the meeting the first face-to-face session between the two leaders since biden became president. they will focus on a full range of pressing issues, according to jen psaki yesterday in her statement in the white house briefing room. antony blinken met his russian counterpart last weekend iceland -- last week in iceland. the meeting is expected to take place in jean -- in geneva. sad news. former senator john warner, virginia republican, served five terms, died at his home in alexandria. he was 94.

the ap with that news alert -- to be 2 p with that news alert. eric is ready to travel. any concerns about covid restrictions or mask policies? caller: well personally, i am not vaccinated nor will i get the vaccine, but i have no issues with traveling. i don't believe in this covid -- i don't know what you want to call it. i think we have done a lot of medical theater with the masks. i always wonder -- i hear the callers, well, "we don't trust the people who have been vaccinated." if you are vaccinated, are you protected? of course you are. so why do you care if i am not? caller: we wear a mask in businesses with those policies? caller: if i have to. i traveled to disney a month

ago. you are in the terminal and you have all this social distancing, but an hour later, you are crammed in with 300 people on a 727. an hour ago, you couldn't even be six feet away from the person. now you are rubbing your arms up against the person. and the stewardess brings you soda and they are touching everybody's hands and it is going all through the cabin. it is medical theater. i always wonder, do the masks work? we always talk about the masks. so if i don't wear a mask and you have a mast on, are you protected -- have a mask on, aren't you protected? talking specifically about hospitality, when i sat down at a restaurant a month ago, we all take our mask off and is ok and the waitress comes over and she has a mask on, so apparently she

is protected. if i am not going to a supermarket -- if i'm going to a supermarket and you have a mask on, you should be protected. are they expendable, waitresses, the people in the hospitality industry? because apparently when you sit at a table in a restaurant, there's a magic bubble that appears. i think a lot of it is for nothing i have no problems going out. i am not vaccinated nor will i be. those are my two cents. thank you. host: that's eric in new hampshire. this is patrick in laurel, maryland. caller: thank you for accepting my call. i must admit the person that just got through speaking scared me half to death. so because of that, i feel

somewhat comfortable traveling and somewhat not. the only thing that i would recommend people to do is to just use your own sense of -- use your own sense personally. given though i am fully vaccinated -- i used the pfizer -- i know the vaccine will help you not die if you get it. you can get the virus, but more than likely, if you ever do get it, you won't die from it, but if you do get it, you may transfer it to someone that is not vaccinated and that person may pass from it, so you have to look at it from the standpoint of what can you do to still protect yourself and what can you do to protect others. i also wear a mask pretty much

wherever i go. when i am outside and not around too many people, then i go ahead and take it off, but out of respect for others and for protecting myself, even though i am not vaccinated, i do still wear the mask and i encourage everyone to not try to play do cotr -- doctor and to listen to the health care professionals because they know what they are doing. that is the only way we will be able to finish knocking out this virus so everyone can go back to a more normal and see of life -- to a more normalcy of life. host: that's patrick in maryland. we have been speaking about the statistics for employment in the on -- in the hospitality sector.

let's have a look at leisure and hospitality unemployment rates specifically. this goes back to 2011. you see the trend line heading down and then the pandemic hits and you see from about 5% all the way up, very quickly, to that 39% number. it has come down quickly, but still in the 11% range, about double what it was before the pandemic. the overall u.s. unemployment rate at this .6 .1%. we are hearing from those who work in the leisure and hospitality sector. what kind of work do you do, j? -- jay? caller: good morning. i have been in this business for 15 years, from server to manager, and personally, i feel that this last year -- i stopped

working last february, 14 months ago, 15 months ago. i was with my elderly mother in florida at the time. we quarantined in her home. after the summer got hot, i said, we are going back to new york. i took her with me. we went in the car. got a couple hotel rooms. a long trip with a couple animals in the car. we didn't get sick. fast-forward to the fall. mom caught it. she had been in the house and had gone out at all. went to one doctors appointment. a week later, she had symptoms. she was in the hospital for a few days. she had a come i had it, we have all had it that she had it, i have had it, we have all had it. in the winter, a bad hangover for all of us, the effects of the covid, tiredness, achiness,

general malaise. the vaccines came out. they were widely available, especially for me. i am a caregiver. my mother is elderly. we got the shots and both fel t better. after the second shot, we really rallied. i would like to go back to work here. because i take care of my mom and my home, the state will continue -- in my home, the state will continue to support me. back in florida, three months later, i have not heard from the unemployment system, though i technically worked in both states. so there was no support from the state. here, it is more gradual. people are fully masked. i just had gone to florida a month ago for two weeks and i had to fly, which didn't throw me, but two weeks since my

second vaccine was the day of the flight, so i thought ok, let's do this. admittedly, i had a couple months over that month where i had swollen glands. i was not sure maybe if we had contracted it. not really tired, but felt a little odd. and people were not wearing masks there. host: what do you think will be the tipping point for you to go back versus staying to take care of your mom and be safe? caller: i think human beings are largely vaccinated because -- i think people here are taking seriously. i feel comfortable going back to work, but the unemployment system here, with the extra money and the stimulus, has allowed me to save quite a bit. when i think about going back, i am 57, so there's been a lot of times, and there's a lot of

people, that make very little money. there's no support from the businesses. it is something you can get into if you are here illegally and don't have paperwork. it is not here to ge -- it is not hard to get in. it is a lot of wretched people in this industry. myself, i made quite a bit of money for a few hours, and that is an optimal situation in this industry but not everyone's experience. host: that is jay in new york. john is also in the hospitality industry. go ahead. caller: in tour guide in d.c. though the crowd sizes are a little bit smaller, the enthusiasm seems to be amped up. people really are excited to be out and seeing the monuments and memorials, the capitol, and i

also operate a pedicab, electric golf carts, tours, and we are doing better than ever. host: how long will it take you to make up for the past 14 months? caller: we wrote that off as a loss. we will not make up for that. it is like we are starting over, starting a new business again. we have very little overhead. we just garaged the vehicles and i delivered food on a bicycle for several months, which i hated, but i did it just to make money because i didn't get any covid relief money. being self-employed, it is hard to prove your income. i try to get unemployment and they turned me down. i thought i will just go delivered food. host: what is the one for everybody should take when it, -- when -- everyone should take when they go to d.c.? caller: the nighttime tour.

when the lights are on, martin luther king, the lincoln, world war ii, it is spectacular under the nightlights. it is fantastic. and now we have great warm nights. host: and the best way is to have someone take you on a pedicab? caller: yeah, or if you have a larger group, we have a little red elkhart. it is the best way to cdc -- to see d.c. host: john, thank for the call. sherry is ready to travel. where will you travel? caller: travel for me is limited. i am very high-risk. i am 76. i went to a department store to buy some clothes for the first time in over a year. i wear a mask and there's clearly posted signs on the building to wear a mask, but of course, there's also -- there's always a few that refuse

to do it. but they don't understand -- and i am a retired nurse -- is it is not medical theater. it is the truth. you can pass the virus amongst each other whether people are masked or not. you can get it. it has happened. it is rare but it does happen. and hopefully i wouldn't die from it, but i really would -- i probably would because of the medical problems, but they pass it amongst each other and keep the virus present. people that are unmasked will pass it to each other and that keeps it going and then you will get the verys and -- get the variants and the things you cannot fight. we don't realize how lucky we are that we are able -- that the vaccines are working against whatever is out there right now, but if they continue to not wear masks and pass it around, the variants may get to a stage

we are unable to fight. host: thanks. this is jerry on twitter -- not yet. a scientist or politician cannot raise a magic wand and say people are safe. hermann says i am not ready for you all to travel here. for crying out loud, you were loading bags of gasoline into your trucks a couple weeks ago. stay home. this from pool -- not ready to travel unless the country is 70% plus or regions are that way, but knowing that masking, distancing and handwashing also prevents travel colds, that will change habits. i noted this as i am not comfortable eating out in crowds or traveling for leisure. that's tim in ohio. this is jim in texas. good morning. you are next. caller: good morning. how are you doing?

host: doing all right. caller: good. i was going to say that something we are overlooking as far as why people are going out to restaurants and stuff like that, i mean, it is cobit of course, but also, the ancillary or whatever you want to call that, people don't want to be harassed. businesses are closed right now. everybody is wondering why. it is very obvious that no one is willing to go to work these days. fine. i don't want to -- i said, like their previous caller said, people at mcdonald's have to deal with a bunch of people who are all about them. host: would you agree with that previous scholar that something should be done -- that previous caller that something should be

done about paying restaurant workers more? caller: i don't think that has anything to do with the. -- with it. when i go to mcdonald's, i give them a tip, because i am like, i am glad you are feeling up to work over here, you know? so that is the situation. they don't want to work. that extra $300 a week or whatever, you know, you have to get off the government for -- they can continue that. i think that has something to do with it. host: jim in livingston, texas this morning. work conversation later today on the unemployment insurance issue. plenty happening on capitol hill today, including the ceos from the nation's largest banks set

to testify on operating practices and stock pricing and worker taxes before the senate banking committee live at 10:00 a.m. eastern. we will be taking you there after today's program. you can also watch on c-span.org, listen on the c-span radio app. homeland security secretary alejandra mayorkas is said to testify today before a senate appropriations subcommittee on the prison's fiscal 2020 to budget -- on the president's fiscal 2022 budget plan for dhs. you can listen online on the free app and watch on c-span at organs he's been. he will before a house appropriations earlier this morning. one more call on this segment before we move onto other topics this morning. david has been waiting in gaithersburg, maryland. go ahead. you are ready to travel. caller: yeah.

i am ready to travel. i have been calling in because the guy who said it is political theater and people who are still not believing in israel. i had covid in december. i am 31. i still have complications from it. i don't know where the masks work or not. i cannot get vaccinated until my complications go away. i have two coworkers who were vaccinated who still got the virus even though they were vaccinated, but the vaccine doesn't actually prevent you from getting the virus. it just prevents you from getting in the hospital with the virus you getting in the hospital with the virus. i had it. a heart condition called pericarditis and rashes and fatigue and different things i have been dealing with for four or five months now. it has not completely gone away. host: david, with that, when will you be ready to get on an

airplane again? caller: i am ready to go on an airplane. i am not worried about contracting the virus again. i am still dealing with the symptoms, but i am ready to go. i just want to make sure people know that just because you are vaccinated doesn't mean you cannot get the virus. you can still get the virus. and even if you are not hospitalized, you can still what i got or some of the other people i have been talking to have, just lingering symptoms with this thing. it is not the flu. it is neurological. it is an immune disease. i have been to so many doctors and i have a $6,600 deductible. i have already spent my deductible on all these doctors visits. i am on $300 of prescriptions a month. this virus is definitely real. in case people are downing it, i just want to get that out

host: thank you for sharing your story and good luck. last call in the washington journal, we mentioned the homeland security secretary on capitol hill are a couple of meetings on the dhs budget, we focus in on that topic next with michelle hackman of the wall street journal on the immigration reporting there. the century foundation's andrew stettner to discuss the role of unemployment insurance in a pandemic in the move by some governors that cut -- to cut benefits. we will be right back. >> on c-span, chief executives from the nation's out largest banks testify before the senate banking committee about their operating practices, that is at 10:00 a.m. eastern. at 2:00 p.m., amen security secretary alejandro mayorkas at hearing, on c-span2, the senate returned at 10:30 a.m. to

consider amendments to legislation authorizing science and technology research programs over the next five years. at 11:00 a.m. on c-span3, the house, energy, and commerce subcommittee looks at ways to build public confidence in covid-19 vaccines, that is followed by the head of the small business administration, isabel guzman on the implementation of covid-19 relief programs for small business. >> book on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend, saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, maverick, a biography -- by wall street journal columnist, syndicated by dennis prager, sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, the premonition of pandemic story, best selling author michael lewis writes about the early warning signs of the covid-19 pandemic and the trump

administration's response, watch book tv this weekend on c-span2. >> c-span's landmark cases explores the constitutional drama behind significant supreme court decisions and for the next several weeks, paczki episode from our series. sunday at 2:00 p.m. eastern on c-span, at the dred scott decision that held that a black person either free or slave never be a u.s. citizen or sue in federal court. watch landmark cases, sunday night at 10:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. online on c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> washington journal continues. host: ahead of today's hearing on the department of home security budget, we are joined by immigration reporter, michelle hackman and michelle hackman, how tough of a grilling

is dhs secretary alejandro mayorkas -- going before legislators today? guest: it will not be has first time, but he has a tough portfolio of issues to discuss from the southern border to immigration legislation, domestic terrorism, the colonial pipeline, anti-semitism attacks around the country and that is all under his purview and he has a tough line of question ahead of him. host: a hearing at the house, the senate later this afternoon, what members are you particularly going to be focusing on and watching as you do your reporting on the hearings? guest: oh, probably the chairman. i find value in all of the members because often, democrats ask for a fresh friendlier questions, so they asked detailed information -- because often, democrats ask friendlier questions.

i would say both sides actually i think are somewhat unhappy with the current administration's border policy, so i will pay attention to discussion around issues like how the administration is handling the asylum seekers at the border. host: there is the issue of child detention, likely an issue that will come up today. what is the status right now for dhs in terms of numbers of detentions and the numbers of unaccompanied minors coming across the border? guest: the numbers have been roughly study for the last month or so. it is several hundred kids coming across the board every day. the number hovers between 300 to 500 and dhs have been doing a much better job as you know when children crossed the border. it is first dhs, but cut jones and border protection's job to process the kids and move them on to shelters run by that point

-- the department of health and human services. while they are having trouble doing that, there was way markets coming in and going out of the system and they really improved the process, but right now they have about something like 700 kids in their custody, but they are moving them through. we hear numbers pretty frequently within about 24 hours, now they are moving to hhs shelters, which is good. host: immigration and border questions, now's your time to call in. she covers for the wall street journal, (202) 748-8000 for democrats, (202) 748-8001 for republicans, independents, (202) 748-8002. a busy week for others who cover congress with the budget coming out at the end of the week. when you finally get your hands on that document, what are you going to be looking for in it? guest: one of the big questions i have is, how this administration is going to be handling ice, immigrations and custom enforcement.

one of the big calls of the democratic primary what does the ice abolished or significantly scaled down. we saw comments yesterday from secretary mayorkas that they will put the ice budget at the same like the previous year. i'm curious of how they will manage that. are they going to shift money around so that they have more money going into what they have alternatives to the attention, so rather than detaining an immigrant, you are free to go, we will track you with an ankle bracelet, that has been the obama administration's approach, that is what we are thinking will be the biden's administration approach. there are many other question, how much more money will receive go into the domestic terrorist efforts to work with nonprofit organizations to combat domestic terrorism.

will we see more positions and intelligence to fight domestic terrorist groups. host: do you think we will see an uptick for pipeline security in this budget? guest: i would imagine so. the department announced this week that they are coming out with a new set of rules, to actually regulate pipelines after the colonial pipeline attack earlier this month. you know, oil pipelines, -- very few critical infrastructure in industries that have requirements to report cybersecurity attacks and to fortify themselves against attacks. oil pipelines have not been one of those. the electric grid, nuclear power plants are some of the only few that actually have rules like that, so they are expanding that to the pipelines. host: on fortification, the idea of the wall between the united states and mexico, one of the

first actions of the biden administration was atop the building of new walls. as the money in the budget each year toward a wall up code -- upkeep and what can we determine about that issue from the budget numbers that we are going to see this week? guest: that is a great question. the biden administration is grappling with this issue where in their first budget document that they put out, i forgot one, a couple of months ago, they suggested that they want to give back all of the leftover money, but the trump administration had a lot -- allotted to the wall. when congress gives you money, it is against the law to not do that. i think they are grappling with, can they use that money to fix up sections of the wall that trump early started building, do they need to build more sections of the wall, can they use money that congress gave them to do other border technologies like adding radar and drones, lighting, things like that to the sections of the walls, and i

think we will see how we handle -- how they handle that in the budget. host: there's a question from our text messages and service on california -- text messaging service in california. i will mayorkas respond to and complete border questions and wants you to drill down on high tech solutions at the border. guest: sure. as i said, he is in a tough spot because one -- one of president biden to campaign practices -- promises was that he would not build the wall. a billion dollars or possibly more that he put toward wall construction and they have not really determined or they have not announced how they are going to use that money. they suggested they wanted to give it back, but it is a legal problem, they need to use the money as -- if congress does not take it back quickly. and so, i heard that it is possible they can use it to build roads, to ease the task of

the border patrol to patrol the walls. they could use it potentially to actually mitigate some of the environmental effects of the walls, particularly in areas -- areas in arizona, california, they have built wildlife preserves for endangered species act and so they can use that money to mitigate some other damage that was done through the construction. they can use it toward drones and other technology that can detect things like drug smuggling or human smuggling across the wall. host: plenty of colors already this morning. democrats (202) 748-8000. republicans (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. iris out of michigan, independent, good morning. caller: good morning and good morning. it is so nice to see a jewish

girl working for the wall street journal. i have a question regarding the kids released from foster care, they are on the street, wouldn't that be a great report to make? they lose a home at 18 and have to go on the streets, i think it is important because we are bringing somebody young people in from down south of the border. it is a good story. i would go for it if i were you. guest: i agree. that is a problem. i know -- it is actually a problem there as well because there are laws that required to care for the kids until their 18th birthday but after that, they are on their own and out and often actually get turned over to ice and that is an issue that immigration advocates frequently flag. host: from fox news op-ed from earlier this week, this is

congressman andy biggs on the border crisis saying, mayorkas deceived american by claiming that the border is closed, but 178,000 illegal aliens were counted -- encountered at the southern border in april alone. in the meantime, it had the lowest number of deportations in decades. the record number entering the country and the record low in deportations show both ends of the biden administration's efforts to drive up the number of people in the country illegally. there are more than 3 million individuals, many of whom are expect -- suspected criminals living in our communities who have received a due process and have been ordered by hr to leave the country but the biden administration is doing nothing about it. a question on the deportation issue number two, will secretary mayorkas talk to andy biggs today? guest: sorry about that.

host: will mayorkas be questioned by andy biggs today and if he is, what you think he will say on this deportation issue? guest: what he will say is that the department is looking at its deportation strategy. they have really shifted years he and the biden administration where trump said, anyone in the country illegally as a target for deportation. we do not care who you are, if you are here and breaking our laws, we are going to target you. where the biden administration has said, our resources are very limited. we have about 6000 officers in total across the country charged with carrying out their partitions and we will concentrate our resources -- out deportations and we will concentrate our resources on the serious criminals and they also say, it is not about numbers, it is about the quality of the

people we are catching and deporting. and they have been criticized for that because they are allowing a lot of people with criminal convictions, may less serious criminal convictions, to sort of be free from the fear of deportation. host: broadway, virginia, democrats, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, i think we should cut off all of the border control funding there. the money they are wasting -- putting them in hotel rooms, line them all over the country, lying to the american people about it. i think you should cut up all of the funding until they straighten things out. host: how would you like it straightened out? what is straightened out in your mind? caller: put back some of the things like remain in mexico and deport the illegals who should

be deported. host: michelle hackman, remain in mexico policy, something we have not talked about yet. guest: that was a big trump administration policy toward the end of his administration where what essentially they did was they said, if someone came across the border, asked for asylum, they trump administration would say, great, they would go to court in six months and you have to wait in mexico and come back to a port of entry and take you to your court date. it had the effect of driving many migrants away. the places in mexico where they were required to wait are the most dangerous places in the western hemisphere. and so people often abandoned their claim, they were ordered deported in abstention. they were banned from coming to the united states and it was a big issue for human rights advocates. a lot of those people were

getting targeted, kidnapped, and were getting killed. and the biden administration made this promise that they would end that program because it is one of the issues around humid -- humid -- republicans point to it and say this is a boon for us because it slowed the act of people asking for asylum because they did not want to be put in this program, but that is not a viable option for this administration. host: about 10 minutes left with michelle hackman, the wall street journal immigration reported there. her work at the wall street journal, wsj.com is where you can go. taking your phone call online, on -- (202) 748-8000 for democrats, republicans, (202) 748-8001. independents, (202) 748-8002. this is steve, pennsylvania, independent, good morning. caller: good morning, how are you guys today?

i will make this quick because i have a couple of points i want to throughout their, it is mostly opinion because i think number one, politicians are a joke because they are a bunch of drama queens more interested in keeping their jobs and doing it. and number two, a lot of the money being spent for border walls, -- why are we not spending to keep the boots on the ground. get more officials able to handle the workload's because they are overrun dealing with all of these cases. last but not least, the humanitarian issue, we boast about being a loving country but we have to worry about keeping ourselves safe. to me, handling this humanitarian issue, to keep the people save even in their own country, seemed to be a better idea when they are not looking to come to our country to try to get a better life for themselves. for what its worth, that is all i have to say and you guys have

a good day. host: ms. hackman, what you want to pick up on that? guest: you make a point that the biden administration has been talking about and i think we will hear sec. mayorkas bring up today. what they would call the push factors out of countries in central america and around the world that are driving people to leave their countries. deep poverty, corruption, gang violence, more recently effects of time to change, there were two hurricanes that hit guatemala and honduras, particularly demolished and higher -- and higher -- enti re small towns. that is a biden administration and kamala harris have been focused on, trying to pump money into those countries and pump assistance into those countries so they can improve the situation on the ground.

there is skepticism, it is hard to do, in a short period of time, that is a project that might take years to decades. i did not think we will immediately see the effects of those efforts. host: the caller brought up the boots on the ground, where are we on numbers of border patrol agents, efforts to hire more agents that were started during the trump administration and i believe --where are we in hiring? guest: that is a great question. that is a cretin that will get answered -- that is a question that will get answered by the hearing this week. i will note that even though there is the drive to hire more border patrol agents, that there were border patrol agents -- more border patrol agents now than before. i think the efforts now are to be more focused -- this started under trump and i think it is a great move, to sort of have specialists, people who are more

focused on handling children coming across the border so that border patrol agents are left -- they complained that they have become like daycare attendance -- attendants and that frees up agents to be back on the line, back at the border so they are trying to look for people who are sneaking across rather than turning themselves in. host: to pennsylvania, this is well, a republican, good morning. caller: i wanted to comment about what the previous caller said. i think that is the end solution, conflict resolution in places like africa and elsewhere. the biggest issue is that money is poured into the area --

stably put into infrastructure and all of these other policies needed. in the meantime, it seems like we might have caused the issue in our country with the act, with a migrant workers, we needed their help during world war ii to keep our farms going and i think a lot of people nowadays forget how much they played a big part in keeping the agriculture in this country running. a lot of these people probably at their trying to seek asylum and they rightfully deserve it. do you have any comment on that? host: with your work in this area, what is the best way to help a destabilized country? if there is money people want to send to help or a government wants to help, what is the best way to do that? caller: by giving the people the opportunity to grow the country the way they want, rwanda is an

amazing example of what can be done if done correctly in a short period of time. they are probably one of the cleanest cities in the world if not all of africa. host: how are they doing there? caller: empowering the people, and really kind of giving them the resources and the opportunity to take advantage of it, not just the physical cash to inflate the system. host: thank you for the call from pennsylvania. ms. hackman on some of the issues he brought up? guest: i totally agree with you that there are multiple causes of why people come. as you know, half of the farmworkers in this country are here illegally and the cover and border -- and the tougher border. one people cross the border and in the past, it was seasonal, they would work for a few months and go back to mexico.

people did not want to come here and live here the rest of their lives. we do not have any programs available for them, and illegal pathway to allow them to come to work, even to allow them to come and join their family members. you know some of the backlogs are 10 and 20 years long and that is driving a lot of the people to come across the border illegally because we created no other option for them. i think that is something we are going to see advocates pushing the biden administration to consider. host: about five minutes left with michelle hackman. we will try to get to as many of your calls as possible. virginia, and dependents. caller: hi, i have an idea and i am not familiar if this is something that has been considered before. just carrying this conversation -- hearing about this conversation about the areas where they were having to wait near the border in mexico and in particular that are dangerous, has it been considered that the u.s. government partnered --

looking at where they are state -- getting there immigrants from and partner with the big areas and establish offices in those areas and possibly even compounds in those areas where people could come in, say i am seeking asylum, they will be taken care of by the u.s. government so if they have a -- if they are in danger, they can be moved out of danger and then it can be decided if they can stay in the compound until they are hearing, maybe there can be a processing where they can say, ok, tell us why you are here, what is your claim, you know, and it can be decided whether or not they need protection in the compound or they can just come back to that compound.

a set date, have the court date there, virtually or by location -- at location and at that point, have those locations equipped to do all of the licensing, visas, whatever they would need so that they can ride across the board and we are not having like almost an hour glass, it is not like we are having everyone funnel through the tiny little port, we can take care a lot of that -- take care of a lot of that and people do not have to go through treacherous trips or send their children with coyotes or whatever else is happening. host: thank you for the question. we are running low on time so i will give michelle hackman time to respond. guest: that is another big initiative of the biden administration, they call it in country processing and they are looking to do that may be within

the next year or so, expand centers within countries that send a lot of migrants to the u.s. to see, make your asylum claim here and if you pass, bring you safely to the united states rather than have you make that treacherous journey across the border illegally and then the border control custody. cut that out. if i were to say that there was an issue with that process, the big thing that i would like is that a lot of people coming from central america, although they are facing dangerous circumstances, a lot of people are threatened by gang violence, being extorted, things like that. it does not often meet our very strict definition of the what qualified asylum -- that is political persecution, religious persecution, ethnic persecution, so what happens if we set up those processes and people do not know -- can we create other

pathways for them to come legally so that we are flowing that flow. host: this is john, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. i just recovered from covid for three months. host: i hope you are ok. caller: yeah, i made it. host: glad you made it. caller: i am very concerned, i never had to use our health system for too many many -- many major things. and all of a sudden having to use it. i am burning through my medicare, tricare, 22 years in the navy and i was a fireman and i am burning through that insurance. i want to know, how can we bring people across, say we will -- i

have been doing this for my back and how are we going to take care of our own citizens first? where's the priority? host: thank you for watching from the hospital. michelle hackman? guest: i totally hear that concern. the thing i would emphasize is that the u.s. does not have a ton of control over how many people are crossing the border illegally. particularly who are asking for asylum. you typically get deported or expelled extremely quickly, but folks who ask for asylum, which is a legal process, tend to get to stay for two years while their court date gets process. in most cases, they do not have access to insurance. i think california is one of the only states that offers undocumented immigrants access to medicaid or other insurance. really what they do have access

to it a shot at the emergency room and get here that way. in terms of teeth or anything like that, i do not think we have seen the health care system particularly strained for that reason, but for those -- they do not get any preventive care in this country and in the end of coming to our emergency room. host: last call, barbara in oklahoma, independent, go ahead. caller: yes, i would like to know who is taking care of all of these kids? to me, this is almost like hijacking the kids. why aren't they being sent back to their own country? this is ridiculous. host: i will give you the final minutes. guest: the reason is because we have laws that stated the children need to be offered protection in the united states if they want it, which everyone -- everyone in the system asked. what happens is they go to

shelters run by the department of health and human services where there are social workers and care workers working with the children anywhere from a few weeks to a few months while the government looks for an adult sponsor in the united states who can take care of them longer-term while the immigration case is working its way through the system. 40% of the kids have a parent in the united states and that becomes their sponsor, typically another family member, a family friend, things like that. host: michelle hackman, in an immigration reporter with the wall street journal. if you want to follow her on twitter, is he to follow, -- easy enough to follow m hackman. host: we turn to the topic of unemployment insurance at the century foundation, andrew stettner will join us for that discussion and later, we will continue that discussion with former republican governor of north carolina, pat mccrory.

stick around, we will be right back. >> listened to c-span's podcast, booknotes+, this week christopher bono teaches courses covering african-american politics and culture, slavery and emancipation, and the atlantic world. dr. bonner is an associate

professor in the history department in the university of maryland. he graduated with a bachelors of art from howard university and received his phd from yale. professor bonner's first book is titled "remaking the republican: black politics and the creation of an american citizenship? he writes in the introduction that his book is rooted in the published record of antebellum black protest. >> booknotes+, new episodes available every tuesday morning. subscribe where you get your podcast and learn more about all of the c-span podcast at c-span.org/podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: andrew stettner joined us for a conversation on unemployment insurance. he is a senior fellow at the century foundation who spent decades studying protection policy and mr. stettner, start by giving us a snapshot of what

is available in most states today for somebody who loses their job today. guest: in most states, if you lost your job at the beginning of the pandemic and you continued to look for work and continued to receive unemployment benefits, the amount -- the basic benefit plus the additional $300. what is really significant because even if you lost your job because you do not have child care or because you yourself were sick of covid or a family member, you can also get federal unemployment benefits. that was not the case under standard law. we really expanded out benefits because we have not wanted anyone to fall into quandaries because of the unique circumstances of the pandemic. host: that is additional federal benefit on top of the basic benefit, how is that basic

benefit determined? guest: generally, it is around one half of your prior wages, but such a cap that each state gets to determine. for example in tennessee, you cannot get more than $225 per week in basic state benefits. it is pretty limited in most areas. in louisiana for example, the state benefit averages only 100 $93 a week. host: when it comes to unemployment insurance and federal programs, some 13.8 million people in the federal program today, $9 billion a week is what that costs during that pandemic come up about $728 billion spent compared to 27 billion in 2019. mr. stettner, how do those numbers of people in the programs fluctuate during the pandemic and where are they expected to go in the coming weeks and months? guest: they obviously want to

record levels in the summer of 2020. you know, north of 21 million at one point and since then, have generally been at a plateau to the second half and steadily declined throughout 2021. depending on the program, the benefits have been down 40% to 20% since the beginning of the year. as people slowly began to get back to work, finding suitable jobs. in general, this trend is moving in the right direction, people are moving, from unemployment benefits to work and hopefully not having long-term financial scarring and i think left to its own devices, we will get into it , but further, i think the benefits would have continued to

taper down to the end of the year. host: some colors brought up today and we talked about jobs in the hospitality industry in the country, concerns by republicans that supplemental anthem -- unemployment insurance is creating a dis-incentive for workers to go back on the job. this was senator mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate a week or two ago. >> we all knew what would happen. democrats insisted on continuing to pay more not work. in april, as the president of's policy set the fact, we only added 266,000 jobs. that is nearly 800,000 underestimates. just as jobs to million, the biggest number ever recorded.

-- surge to 8 million, the biggest number ever recorded. of course, that is what happened. the record number of small businesses say they have opened jobs they cannot fill. governors across america are having to take matters into their own hands and turn off these extra generous benefits. and states like arizona, georgia, montana, ohio, and west virginia, we have governors having to clean up this mess, which at least one of their own senators voted for. the policies that were needed in march of 2020 are not the policies we need in may of 2021. host: mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate earlier this month. mr. stettner, to the points that he brings up?

guest: that majority leader stated 23 states have actually done in unprecedented decision, they decided to back out early from the federal unemployment programs. you have to put yourselves in their shoes, if you live in montana, one of the pills in mid-march, it was extended to mid-september, -- you know that you have another six months to do that, so you make plans and proceed accordingly and all, you are given 30 days, an announcement in the middle of may that it will end early. this question of unemployment benefits and the impact on work incentive is one of the most studied questions in economics and all of the research comes to similar conclusions. whatever effect there is as

likely to be modest. most recent study from the federal reserve bank of san francisco described the results like this. there is 28 people unemployed on benefits, with the regular benefits, 7 would find a job each month. with the extra $300, perhaps changing the incentive, six of those individuals will find that would find a job -- would find a job each month. the cost for the states and the families and the states is much larger than any unemployment game. these same businesses that are complaining about not being able to find workers have been happily accepting the debit card swipes unemployed people and those billions of dollars over the last year and that is what

would -- four -- four -- they are working in retail stores, driving overnight trips, these are not great jobs that are out there and they are not well suited to everyone who was -- who has lost work. in arizona, i met with a woman who does events management for live events and conferences. right now, her company has one week at work and one week of furloughs in which she is receiving 550,000 dollars in unemployment benefits. that will be cut down the $250. what is she supposed to do in the interim weeks? is she supposed to quit her job? it does not make a lot of sense and it is essentially these governors are cutting off their

noses host:. senior fellow with the century foundation, taking all phone calls to talk about the unemployment insurance program in this country, the lines as usual, (202) 748-8000 democrats, republicans, (202) 748-8001 and independents, (202) 748-8002. we start with a mic out of harrisburg, pennsylvania, good morning. caller: morning. isn't it true that the government had this to find out exactly right for the upcoming school year? there's a good chance with the vaccinations and everything and the decreased cases that schools are probably going to be relatively normal in the fall compared tell last year -- compared to last year. people, they are going to stay on their unemployment because the child care system, the

daycare system in this country is terrible. they do not pay the people and up that work there and the people that want to use daycare cannot afford it. it seemed to me having all of these things, having the kids go back to school and mom and dad give them a chance to get serious about getting back to work and getting things squared away. and in my off the mark on that? guest: that is a great point. i think your statistics as it is now still about 44% of schools are at least hybrid in their construction and if your scores hybrid, you cannot go back to work full-time. and so, not everybody will be able to find a job by september. let's remember, we are still a-9 million job short and we will

not recover all of those jobs. we do know it will be much easier for folks to go back to work in september, especially if we did what president biden talked about in his address on this. topic, help people find work, use evidence-based reemployment services, have someone look at your resume, give you some job coaching, we know these are cost-effective and they help people find work. as part of the unemployment program, as part of getting back to normal. when it comes to these benefits, a 180 from realizing that we have to not use the requirements to all the sudden coming them off, so there are interim steps we can do over the next few months to help people look for jobs. host: morgantown, west virginia, democrats, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i wanted to mention that i appreciate the previous caller

comments regarding childcare and your guest to comments regarding childcare. my question is this, my understanding is that when a person receives unemployment benefits, they had to do certain things that they had to actively apply for work and they had to accept the job before they came -- became available. as that's not the case -- is that not the case with these unemployment benefits because i think people are perpetuating this narrative that people are lazy, that they do not want to, that they are undeserving poor, i am wondering, that just seems like subterfuge at the same requirements are still in place. i am wondering about that. guest: that is a great point. what happened was some of those requirements changed during the shutdown period. by the spring of this year, 30 states had reinstated the

typical work search requirements and the president to most recent order, they ordered all of the states up the requirements in place, throughout this entire pandemic, if you are -- if your old employer offered you your job back and you refuse to come up you would have to have really a very tight reason to refuse the job. you cannot just say, i did not feel comfortable going back to work. in fact, very few individuals, we are talking a few thousand out of millions have been divided -- denied benefits for this reason. my understanding, and there was a story on the washington post, when you took restaurant workers, a lot of people left the job entirely due to the pandemic. either they lost their job or they got less money and were --

they left their job. my own focus group, i talked to someone who decided to take care of and the person, another who went to private security and will lie, why would i go back to a restaurant, the wages are not good, the tips are all over the place, and i am going to do something else now. restaurants are troubling because they do not offer good jobs and in this environment, people are not rushing back to get back jobs. host: pasadena, california, independent caller:. caller:i am calling because i am on employment and i am receiving the government stimulus and my money has been pending for three months. i am not looking for a job because california is still shut down and we are still trying to find jobs and we are not going back to restaurants. if they cannot afford living wages, close your business. we are not coming back. guest: i am sorry to hear that

your benefits have been delayed. that has been a process millions of workers still because of the outdated technology and hoops people have to go through, people do not necessarily know, the federal minimum wage for working in a restaurant is two dollars and $.13 -- $2.13. that is unbelievable in 20 21. one thing we want to see come out of this build that better, what does that mean? we ought to have a wages. i think these restaurants will find workers that need a start, coming out of high school, etc. this is not a reason to cut out everyone from unemployment benefits. i wish you luck, i hope you find

a suitable job, one that will face your past experience. many have been out of work for the first time and some people were not able to work. they hit a curb -- any kind of curveball. why are we punishing those who were just in the center who are equally impacted by the virus. host: you typed on this a bit earlier, but governors are changing the federal benefits, the headline from today to washington times i should say, states offering back toward bonuses, governors asking federal unemployment benefits to incentivize workers. how many governors are doing this, how are they able to sort of change the way that this money is going on? guest: the issue, why? these are temporary programs.

they are not solid, they are offered through an agreement between the governor and the secretary of labor and that agreement gives either side a 30 day cancellation option. we think it is questionable that they are exercising it in that way, but that is what they are doing, it is 23 state, they are all republican governors, it is as many as 4 million workers, 2 million of those workers are losing all unemployment benefits, so they are on programs like pua and the rest of these numbers are losing just the $300 supplement. so some 2 million workers are going to bureau and some are losing $300. host: bobby, mayfield, kentucky, republican, good morning. caller: good morning.

yes, the companies -- they companies, mostly any company, they put in unemployment for the people. why did they governors have control over it? -- why do the governors have control over it? guest: thank you for the question. it is a great point, it is just a bit confusing. when it come to the standard state benefit, that is heavily regulated under federal laws, but these are temporary federal programs, they are not paid for by the payroll taxes you mentioned. they are paid out of the general treasury and because of the temporary nature, is a short legal agreement and set of regulations. that allows the state to pull out of this. they cannot pull out of the

basic benefits in kentucky, which averages probably around $300 a week, but they can pull out of the additional $300 on top of it. it is not paid by their payroll taxes. host: saint rose, louisiana, a democrat, good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to tell you i live in louisiana and i live in -- next to eleanor's -- next to new orleans which is heavily dependent on the tourism industry and the restaurants and the hospitality industry does not save much. for example, some newer type the cafe, average pay for the worker would be like $200 a week and

even when covid came and people were unemployed, they were getting $247 or less than $200 from the state unemployment benefits. so, the $300 or more that were the federal government pay was a godsend to these working-class people. and now, -- now that republican senators and governors want to cut these, it is going to have a huge impact on the working-class people because they will not be able to pay rent and will be thrown out of their homes or apartments that they live in. and people need to understand that if you want them to come and work, you cannot live off of

$200 a week. even when you are unemployed and got unemployment benefits, you cannot even apply for food stamps. host: mr. stettner. guest: i am looking forward to my next trip to new orleans to get something from the cafe. we do not think about where those workers enter often. governor john bel edwards continued the $300 -- the unemployment rate in louisiana is over 7% because of the declines in tourism. you are seeing really the trajectory of jobs in these states is not related to the unemployment benefits, but more broader, economic forces, who was suffering the most, nevada, hawaii, louisiana, these are the

states that are so dependent on tourism. neither are receiving the benefits, it is only a small share of workers that were eligible and able to make it through the process. it does not include most young people, etc. we are blaming the victims by considering cutting out the benefits and i think it is something louisiana -- the african-american workforce very high, half are on unemployment benefits, they are overrepresented for the state, black workers often the first fired and last hired in a recovery, so providing benefits can help to deal with some of the credible inequality that we had during the pandemic. jeff bezos and others becoming

multibillionaire's while a lot of people are suffering and the least we can do to people as have the strong unemployment benefits that can help people come out of holes, usually if you are yet unemployment is found them a their balance sheet is wrecked, they drained their retirement. that happened -- we need to follow through all the way until the vaccination program has taken full effect, untold childcare gets back up, and then it will be much easier for. get out of work in an orderly fashion. he will not get all of these people back and work in one month. that -- these people back in a in one month. host: a couple of minutes left, how much waste, fraud, and abuse is there traditionally in unemployment insurance programs

and we know it that went up during the additional spending during the pandemic? guest: what we do know happened during the pandemic, because this is the first period we have had a recession after the extreme levels of identity theft and some of the new programs were rolled out and by necessity, they cannot have identity proofing and income proving as the traditional programs, but we do know that organized crime, fraud, attack, have been high on this program. when you pay several billion dollars now, even 10% of fraud as seen from a very high, but i want to emphasize that this fraud problem has not been -- bending the rules -- it has been

much more and organized crime effort both internationally and domestically, people taking advantage of the system using stolen identities. host: last question from marcy in great bend, kansas, via a text messaging service. what you think about her proposal. she says, i think lawmakers should have their pay computed by their state's unemployment formula and then let them decide whether the $300 as an additional windfall. if you have not been working on the service industry, at minimum wages higher slightly, and it is difficult to find employment that will pay a living, that supports food on the table and childcare. guest: we know many workers out there, many skilled workers have not been able to get back to work. we want time -- we wanted to get back to get a suitable job. -- we want them to get back to a suitable job.

it is similar to the post-iraq, a war situation, some people never had to make any sacrifices economically. during the pandemic, they were able to work and do their thing while others have really struggled to get by, food pantries have been swarmed, people are holding onto their homes just barely behind months in rent and yet, people are saying we have been too generous in our -- that has what made the economy strong going through this. that is why the sector is pointing out, this is a host: andrew stettner is a senior fellow at the century foundation. we appreciate your time this morning. guest: thank you very much. host: later in our program we

will be talking more about the unemployment insurance program with pat mccrory, former north carolina governor. up next in the 30 minutes we have we will turn back to your calls and the phones with the biden budget coming out later this week and when we will see his budgeting priorities. we are asking for your top federal hierarchies. what do you want to see in president biden's budget? the phone lines for democrats, but republicans, and independents are on your screen. we know president biden met with george floyd's family members yesterday on the one-year anniversary of his death. those family members are up on capitol hill -- were up on capitol hill yesterday meeting with negotiators on policing reform, tim scott was one of the members they met with along with

lindsey graham. here is george floyd's family attorney talking about that meeting and police reform in the future. >> do you walk away from this meeting feeling more confident they will find a compromise? >> we are optimistic senator scott and senator graham talked to the family for over an hour about how they are making progress, about how both sides of the aisle are at the table. they are trying to find specific terms because they know they are close, the closest they have ever been. we want to encourage them in the spirit of this day. that is why the family wanted to come and say let's have a legacy that respects not only their brothers -- their brother's blood but also breonna taylor

and others who have been taken away unjustifiably. that is what the senators talked about, that is what the speaker and the president all talked about. we have to make sure we don't squander this opportunity. everybody is engaged and saying we can do better to solve this american issue. the only way we can solve it is working together. it hasn't worked 50 years trying to work apart. we should have bipartisan support with everybody trying to say this is our issue. it is our issue to solve and we have to do together. >> if this comes together, what does it actually mean to you? >> it is historic. when you think about it come up when you go back in history and look at the fact that jimmie lee

jackson was killed by police in alabama when martin luther king and john lewis were there in selma and that was the impetus for the civil rights bill finally getting past after decades of them going back and forth, it reminds you of what we have been doing on police reform. every congress comes up and says we have to do something about them killing black people unjustly. every congress passes and nothing happens. this is our moment. when you look at that video of george floyd, you come to the point where you say it is not now -- you say if not now, when? >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are asking you ahead of president biden's budget, we want to hear from you on your

top budget issues -- your top budget priorities. it will be dug into more by reporters when it is finally released. this from the news, biden under pressure from both sides even before it is out. this is from cnbc, "student debt forgiveness is not expected to be in annual -- to be in biden's budget." experts are saying that is not surprising. we will get more from budget reporters in the next couple days. ahead of that, we want to hear what you think should be in president biden's budget. caleb is up first from miami, republican. good morning. we will go to bob, amsterdam, ohio. a democrat. caller: i would like to see

broadband out in the area where i live which is amish country. we cannot get cable or internet unless we have a satellite dish. if he would expended -- if you would expand it to the whole state, not just to the areas that the cable companies and rod bent can make money -- and broadband can make money. the amish don't do anything with that. if president biden allows donald trump to get by without going to jail, i am done voting period. host: on the broadband issue, it has been an issue for several years now. is it getting closer to you? caller: no, it is within 28 miles what they want to bring into this area because there are not enough people to subscribe to it. we have to have satellite dishes for everything, tv, internet,

everything. it is very expensive. plus, you don't get that great of service. host: that is bob in ohio this morning, taking your calls about your top budget priority. 202-748-8000 for democrats to:. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8002 for independents. caller: the only thing i'm concerned about, every time we get a new president and he puts forth a budget, the congress has to get together and help him or work together on the budget. the government is not pulling

together to really try to set aside their constituents and bring forth a budget everyone can live with. they are -- it is a bad rat race in the white house nowadays concerning a president trying to get a job done and congress -- and really sitting down together and trying to get this country to work. host: what is an issue that can get white house and congress to come together? what is an issue in the budget that everyone can get behind? caller: congress cannot vote their own mind.

if they cannot get together and work, then they should eliminate congress thinking about a budget or anything else. host: that is steve in north carolina. tina, what is your top budget priority? caller: i have to agree with the guy in ohio. i am in a rural area. we don't have cell phone towers. we only have satellite or one other option for cable tv. my thing with the budget -- i watched a little bit of it yesterday. $700 million to see how a lizard walks on a treadmill. let's take that money and put it into rule america -- into rural america.

our police department is like 40 minutes away. let's put it into those kinds of programs, community programs. i don't care if a lizard walks with its hips swinging. it seems like a waste of money. host: i have not seen the lizard story, where did you see that? there are always various reports on the things you would not expect to be in the budget. i have not seen it yet. where was it? caller: he was testifying yesterday, senator rand paul. it was probably on one of the c-span channels in the appropriation meetings. he had all of his cue cards and one of them was how a lizard walks on a treadmill and how his hips go back and forth. who cares? [laughter] that is something i cannot get behind. we have americans starting.

-- americans starting. -- americans starving. give that money to the american people in low interest loans. let's bring back america. host: i will try to go find that hearing after today's show. here's a headline, american corporations pay their workers. they received a huge tax cut and have still not received -- still not raised federal minimum wage. here is eric, we have no plan b. corporate interests have been running our planet for no concern for the people who live here. come on joe, if you're going to change the country you need a planet to do it.

time to pay american workers a living wage. just a few of your comments on social media this morning. taking your phone calls in this half-hour of the washington journal. tell us your budgeting priorities as we await the president's widget. ernest, columbus, ohio. good morning. what do you think should be in the budget? caller: i want to find out why is the black race -- host: we will stick with the budget. let's go to --. go ahead. caller: we had tax increases on low-wage workers and inflation,

gas, energy. it is only four months in. we have 3.5 years to go. there's been a 150 billion already this year. the last budget they ran through -- i'm sorry, the stimulus. only about 8% when two people who needed stimulus. he rested not needed. this party does not want america to succeed. one caller said or text said he wants people paid to go back to work. they want to collapse this country, this is marxism. on this budget, only 80% of this is infrastructure. the rest is social programs. $50 billion went to bailout california. he is paying $1200 per person,

governor newsom. that will turn the vote for him, he thinks. this is all crab. -- all crap. people can get crushed in this country. host: this is shelby in tennessee, independent. good morning. caller: there are so many issues. the one thing i am thinking about, i don't even know if they have thought about it. it is social security. all of these decades, it is like we have been forgotten. inflation has gone up but our income does not. we scrape by.

i hope, if not my generation that the next hopefully medicare and social security will be around. they really need to look at that. nobody knows what is going to happen to them, whether they will have to quit work early because of disability, they lose their spouse, they don't get any hard earned money. we scrape by. a lot of retirees are trying to find work themselves just to make ends meet. host: that is shelby in tennessee. we have been talking about the president's budget, president biden will appoint tom nights to be u.s. ambassador to israel, reported by the associated press. he served as deputy secretary of state for management and resources under secretary

clinton is managing director and vice chair at morgan stanley. robert wexler was also considered for that according to the associated press. that is from 1600 pennsylvania avenue. at the other end of pennsylvania avenue, this story getting a lot of attention yesterday on capitol hill. congressional leaders sharply condemned marjorie taylor greene for comparing covid protocols to acts of the nazi regime. he stopped short of calling for any formal discipline. here's what marjorie taylor greene said in a series of tweets yesterday. "vaccinated employees get a vaccinated logo just like the nazis forced the nazis forced jewish people to wear a gold star." she wrote that in a retreat of a

story about the supermarket dropping a mess commended for fully vaccinated customers. "soon it will be to show your vaccination papers." those comments earning this response from the republican leaders of the house and senate, kevin mccarthy, the minority leader saying "marjorie is wrong and her decision to compare the holocaust with wearing a mask is appalling. the hollis cost -- the holocaust is the greatest atrocity in recent history." and this from mitch mcconnell after his weekly republican conference on capitol hill saying "this is one of the frequent outbursts that are outrageous and reprehensible. any punishment would have to be administered by the house." back to your phone calls ahead

of the release of president biden's budget on friday. we are asking for your pop -- we are asking for your federal budget priorities. this is aaron in ohio. good morning. caller: one of the problems we have in this country is we need to change the mindset. the mindset is this budget, the way we look at it. so many times people say if we don't spend what we have in the budget we want to get this much next time. so let's free up and spend it. that becomes waste. the only way you can change the mindset is to say let's say your increases and bonuses will come from the excess of your budget that is still left. i think you would see people changing and not wasting so much when that starts to happen. we have to change the waste and

the only way we can change the waste is to not spend a lot of time on things we don't need because we are afraid we want to get that much next year. host: this is mickey. good morning. caller: good morning. remember the president they had before, the money he spent on farmers not growing the soybeans , plus all the money spent on trying to scare iran and sending all those ships and planes over there, think about the money thrown away on that. what biden is trying to do now is okay with me. host: ralph in rochester, new hampshire. caller: thank you for taking michael. -- thank you for taking my call. the biggest thing for the budget hood be to try to reduce our deficit. we can't live on phony money

forever. that is my thoughts on the budget. thank you for listening. host: usdebtclock.org, the budget is some $3.2 trillion. the national debt total is $28 trillion and counting. that is breaking down federal spending in a lot of different categories in a lot of different ways, including the federal debt by taxpayers, the debt per citizen in this country. for every u.s. citizen, the debt would be about $3700. by every state it would be some $1.2 trillion if every state was asked to pay off the federal debt.

we use it a lot here on the washington journal. this is will, cannon falls, minnesota. caller: i would like to see some money put back into the pbgc, a pension fund. it was a guaranteed fund we worked for. i worked there -- at a company for 32 years. we are only getting half as much as we should be getting. i would like to see some money put back into that to make that right again. host: the pension benefit guarantee corporation is pbgc.

they protected retirement incomes for over 34 million americans in the private sector. pbgc.gov if you want to learn more about the pension benefit guarantee corporation. that is a new one to me this morning. this is carrie in michigan, an independent. go ahead. caller: i believe what she had to say was great that the pbgc does need to use the federal budget. we each have a priority to the federal budget. i believe that god is a big person and should put together the federal budget and so on.

i think americans can help third world countries in general and i think we can pull off the kingdom together because i believe it is one nation under god. i believe we can do this together. i think the pope is the corporal. host: this is janet in illinois, good morning. caller: i would like to ask why the hosts for the show's continue -- by the hosts for this show continue to -- the democratic party. it was formally named the democratic party and congress in 1844. why is he letting people call it

the democratic party? it is an insult to our party. as far as the budget is concerned. the republicans will never be happy. democrats to have to bother with trying to please them. we just have to keep them out of the white house and out of the majority for the next 40 years. host: this is jane in las vegas. good morning. caller: the only person he was ever bringing down the deficit -- are you still there? host: yes sir. caller: the only person bringing down the deficit was clinton. the only way you can bring it down is you have to raise the debt limit to where they make --

to where they pay 90%. republicans don't want to paper nothing. either the rich people pay for it and bring the debt down or the middle class. people make 100 million dollars a year, they need to pay their share. that is the only way you will bring it down. the republicans always get us in these wars and they don't pay for it. the democrats want to help people and help the economy. the republicans get us in wars and kill people. host: just a few minutes left as we talk about your top federal budget priorities. it was a caller earlier in this segment that brought up the study of lizards on treadmills, some $1.5 million spent on that. my producer found that yesterday. it was indeed rand paul talking about it on the senate floor.

it is about one hour and 23 minutes into yesterday's senate session and you can always go back to rewatch the house and senate sections -- senate sessions on c-span.org. if you want to learn more about lizard on -- lizards on treadmill studies on the senate floor. this is marsha, democrat. good morning. caller: i think biden is doing a good job and i give a nod to elizabeth warren she has a plan for that. you have to make the rich people start paying and bust up monopolies. how can you have billions in profit and pay zero in texas? host: steve in wisconsin says our priorities should be tax cuts, that we are overtaxed and that congress needs to cut spending. what would you say to steve?

caller: i would say he is reading too much republican paraphernalia. turn off fox news and get your head in reality. the republicans only scream about balancing the budget when the rich people are not getting tax breaks. the game is up, we know how it is working. host: that is marsha. this is cedric in arkansas, good morning. caller: hello? host: good morning. caller: my concern is with social security. they said they had to take out of my social security, i think that is a ripoff. i really support this country. i spent 38 years on my job and the amount of money i'm getting doesn't make any sense. i wish we would receive more money on social security.

everybody else's is getting help and why not the veterans, also? i'm a veteran and the veterans administration needs help. this is the greatest country on earth. thank you. host: last call in this segment, duane in michigan. what is your top federal budget priority? caller: i would like to see the military budget slashed in half. what a waste of money that could be spent on real problems in this country instead of building up the military. we spend more money than 11 countries combined. what a waste of money. host: that is duane in michigan. still about half an hour to go. we will return to this conversation about unemployment insurance. we will be joined by former north carolina governor pat

mccrory. stick around after the break, we will be right back. ♪ >> on sunday, june 6, the latour historian max hastings will be our guest on "in-depth." >> inflicted humiliation upon the planet's most powerful. the stairway up which the evening of 29th of april fugitives were -- for me, the struggle was among the foremost expanses of our careers. i was one of those flew out of the u.s. embassy on that tumultuous day. >>'s most recent book is

"operation pedestal." other books include "europe goes to war," and "overlord." join in the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, texts, and tweak on -- and tweets on june 6. tune in on july 4 for annette gordon reeve on book tv on c-span two. ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: we are joined now by pat mccrory on a conversation about unemployment insurance. you are now a north carolina senate candidate.

in watching your senate announcement, you said you build your career outside of washington. why do you want to come and continue your career in washington now? >> -- guest: i think it is because we need to voices that have had to deal with neighborhood leaders, called the national guard. i had to call in the national guard to deal with anarchists. i had to balance the budget and deal with major deficits and i turned them into surpluses. i signed a deal with major mental health and addiction issues which is busting the budget of many states and federal leaders are not talking about the mental health and addiction issues. i've had to deal with the high price of education. instead of just offering free education, we are looking for ways to reduce the cost of education because there is no such thing as free education. someone has to pay for it.

we are looking at ways to have the continual inflation that i think is ripping off students throughout the united states on education. i've had to deal with many issues relating to the energy and the environment. i disagree with the biden-harris plan on energy and getting rid of natural gas. i think it would be disastrous for our country with regards to affordability, reliability, out economics, and the environment. i have a natural gas heat at home and a natural gas or conditioner like many people throughout the u.s. and we are talking about getting rid of natural gas which has made us energy independent from the rest of the world. and we are talking about getting rid of that and other viable energy resources that we have in our country. the list goes on and on.

i served on president bush's homeland security council after 9/11. i went to the mexican border probably over a decade ago and saw the danger of mexican cartels coming into our country and having an impact in north carolina with human trafficking, major cartels, with drugs. and the impact it has on our social service systems and criminal justice system. i have seen it firsthand and i don't see a lot of people on capitol hill in both parties who have that experience that i think is needed to help solve all problems. host: we just have a bit -- we spent a bit of time on the topic of unemployment insurance, an issue very much in the news right now. you penned a column on that for the washington examiner recently. take us back to your first couple months as governor of north carolina, at the time you

write -- at the time there was high unemployment but business owners said they had jobs but could not find people to fill those jobs. guest: in 2013 we were in the midst of a recession when i became governor. north carolina had the fourth highest unemployment rate in the country. you would not imagine today. almost a 10% unemployment area and in some counties we had 15% to 20% unemployment. we kept offering unemployment and we had one of the highest unemployment compensations in the country. we owed the government $2.3 billion in debt for unemployment that we borrowed. when i came in, we had a choice to raise the unemployment tax on employers to make up this debt at a time when employers are laying people off or do we try

to encourage employers to hire people and try to encourage people to get off unemployment. it was a very difficult decision. from a human aspect, you are reluctant to reduce unemployment because what will be the impact on families. i think that when -- i take that money out of the economy, will the economy get even worse in northglenn? -- in north carolina? if you keep repeating the same thing, you get the same result. i reduced the cost of unemployment equal to what tennessee and south carolina were paying. i equaled what our neighboring states were paying and i reduced the time in which you could be on unemployment and also had to make sure you had to look for a job while you were on unemployment. it took about three months and during that three months i had a

lot of protesters and i was worried this extremity had failed and i caused harm in our state. after three months, we suddenly had the largest drop in unemployment in the u.s. since then we have had what we called the carolina comeback and north carolina is once again having difficulty finding people to do their work. part of that is similar to 2013, we had people staying on unemployment as long as they could instead of taking entry-level jobs or mid-level jobs. employers are looking for people , there are help-wanted signs all over north carolina. people cannot find the workers in all sectors of our economy which is what happened in 2013. i'm glad to see other republican governors refuse the federal supplement which is not the role

of the federal government. unemployment comes through state government, not federal government. i think it was a mistake to add to unemployment. governors are recognizing we need to reduce that and encourage people to get back to work. it is working in those states that are doing it today like i did in 2013. maybe we were ahead of our time. host: for those businesses that cannot fill those jobs, why is the lesson here that they should pay workers more? that entry-level jobs are not paying people enough to live on? guest: that means they have to raise their prices and when they do customers quit coming to buy their food or product. then you are in a catch-22 and that causes inflation. there are going to be wage hikes.

this inflation is also going to be tougher on middle-class and lower income workers throughout our country if this inflation continues at the rate it is. just filling up your gas tank is taking away the money we were giving out during the last six months to deal with the virus. to fill up your gas tank, especially middle class and lower income people, this inflation is causing tremendous harm. just to say i am going to raise the cost of wages goes all the way up the spectrum and causes further inflation. there is a cause and effect in everything you do. one cause and effect of handing out a lot of free money to some people who did not need it, for example, thousands of dollars for college students who are still doing long distance learning and they were not impacted by the virus.

we need to be more targeted in how we give money to people, especially on the industries severely impacted by the virus. now we are trying to rebound, especially the tourism industry. they cannot find anybody to return to the restaurants or hotels or amusement parks right now at a time when people are wanting to come. it is a real dilemma. we are giving a disincentive to work. host: former governor pat mccrory with us until the top of the hour. for viewers here on c-span, we will be taking you over to a hearing in the net banking committee at 10:00 a.m. the ceos from the nation's largest banks testifying today. guest: on unemployment, we have paid off the $2.3 billion debt since i left office. we left a surplus which means my successor now at a time when

they needed unemployment and did not want to borrow more money can help them. it had long-term ramifications of helping another group of workers who were impacted by the virus by us making those very difficult decisions on it 2013. i have not gotten a thank you note yet, but i am proud of that decision we made and the protesters that protested against us i think were wrong. it was probably not the political thing to do at the time but it was the right long-term thing to do for employees, employers. host: i want to invite viewers to join this conversation. they can do this on phone lines. for democrats, 202-748-8000. for republicans, 202-748-8001. for independents, 202-748-8002. dexter is here in washington,

d.c. on the for democrats. go ahead. caller: the reason i called is because i was listing to this guy talk -- listening to this guy talk. i guess wealthy people live in another reality. the people -- the reason people don't want those jobs is because they are slave jobs. they don't pay nothing. these rich people want to force people back to these slave jobs that don't pay us money. that is what i have to say. host: opener? -- governor? guest: i took those jobs in high school and college and after college. i worked two different jobs between 20 and 29 to build my wealth. i worked 80 hours a week.

i worked at an entry-level job out of college for $900 a month and worked part-time in the evening refereeing basketball to make expenses work. that is what you have to do to get yourself in the door to prove your value. right now, employers are working -- employers are looking for people to come in and help them and once you get in the door you can show your skills and get promoted and move to other companies as your wage increases. if you just want to stay on government income, you are not going to survive in the long run because sooner or later it is going to cut off and there will be so much debt to this nation that we want to be able to pay off that debt which will impact future generations. host: this is muriel in brooksville, florida. good morning. caller: this guy is talking

common sense. i have no idea how people do not understand common sense. what i don't understand is when people call, they don't want to do anything for the military. we don't do anything for the military we are going to have other countries that are getting strong -- there will be nothing left of us. we need money for the military and i love this guy. i wish she would one for president, common sense all over. i am a boss, i pay what i could pay. host: governor pat mccrory, we will let you to jump -- we will let you jump in and you can say if you have plans for the white house. caller: -- guest: my plan is for

the u.s. senate. i was the mayor of charlotte and then i was governor for four years. while mayor, i worked another job. i was a part term public servant. i have only had one full-time government job and that was as governor. i was proud to do that and i think we made the right decisions to help north carolina in the long term. we need to have more of that type of thinking in washington, d.c. we need to worry more about the next generation more than the next election. host: how -- watch -- what role do you think former president trump will play in the next election in 2022? guest: the policies he made in

regards to immigration were very important. he was the first to recognize changes we need to -- we needed to make with china trade policies. i think donald trump's policies will have a huge impact on upcoming elections in 2022 and the presidential election in 2024. immigration, we are finding out that the trump administration was right in controlling our border. we are seeing so many people come across our borders since the election that this pressure that will be made on cities and towns throughout the u.s. and our social service system, on our criminal justice system, on our hospital system -- it will have a long-term impact as long as we have as much illegal immigration coming across the

southern border. can you imagine if our airports right now, all people started running through the immigration as people got off the airplane and they did not check for drugs or human trafficking? if that was happening, there would be an uproar. because it is happening at the southern border, it is as if people are ignoring it. here in north carolina, if people ran through the airport customs, we might as well get rid of customs if our borders are open anywhere in our nation. we cannot have that. we have to have a good strong immigration policy to bring people from the world but it has to follow a legal process. i am all for changing and adapting our immigration process.

in the meantime, you have to follow the law that has been passed. that is the job of an executive like myself, to enforce the laws on the book. it is the executive branch that enforces the laws and i am sad to see that president biden is not enforcing the laws. host: president trump is considering -- guest: we welcome anyone into the race. i read the other day that her and eric bought property in north carolina and we welcome anybody to come back because it is a great state. host: in idaho, this is craig,

an independent. go ahead, what is your question or comment? caller: i just wanted to say i really appreciate what he is saying people -- what he is saying. people need to get back to work. just sitting around collecting unemployment is not good for you. i really like what this guy has to say. host: that is craig in idaho. how about reggie in spring hill, florida. democrats line. go ahead. caller: you have good ideas as far as equalizing unemployment between states, however, when you were talking about the companies not being able to raise wages so people want to go back to work, they could

probably lower a little bit, as well as ceos making the highest difference of pay between the workers and the ceos. they could probably cut back on that. we know a lot of politicians get kickback from these companies. i don't know how they do it, but they are. talking about immigration as well, i grew up in washington and from the 1960's to the 1970's, you could see a lot of -- i do not know if they were legal or not but there were a lot of people coming from across the border from mexico starting in the 1960's and 1970's. we know for a fact that donald trump had illegal aliens working at his resort, this is a fact.

as soon as they started talking about building the wall and all of this nonsense, he started letting people go because the press was coming in and looking at people more closely who were working for him. host: i want to give the governor a chance to respond. guest: corporate america is not exempt from criticism regarding illegal immigration. ronald ragan started a verify program where if employees -- with employers are hiring people, they have to make sure they are legally allowed to work in the u.s. sadly, a lot of corporations are not following that law. some states have made it more difficult to follow that law. in north carolina, i vetoed a bill that would begin that law.

-- as opposed to raising wages. i'm not just saying corporations should not raise wages, i'm saying there is any impact when you raise wages, especially in the travel and tourism industry. they are bankrupt. think about a rental car company raising their prices for employees when they went bankrupt or a hotel that is barely hanging on to life and has no more reserves having to raise their prices. they are in a real bind and just trying to keep alive. a lot of these restaurants and people associated with the travel and tourism industry that either went under or bankrupt or barely survived during this covid shut down we had in so many states. for those corporations making a lot of money like amazon, you are right they ought to be paying their employees and letting them share in the profits that are being generated

in companies like amazon and others. sharing is what it is all about, it is the best part of the capitalist system. a lot of companies did not survive and they are trying to rebound. they do not have that wealth to share. host: this is marcy in advance, north carolina. a republican. good morning. caller: hey, governor, it is good to talk to you. who knows how many time i -- how may times i defended you on the unemployment issue. people did not understand that the unemployment thing was temporary until you could get on a job. people waited until unemployment had run out and then they found a job. our republican party is not getting their message out. we need new leadership in north

carolina so the republican party -- in north carolina in the republican party. you have a common sense narrative for what needs to be done. thank you so much. i will look for you. guest: thank you. the effect of the matter is if you pay people not to work, there is a chance most of them will not work. if they have families, i have a chance to take a paycheck from the government which pays equal to or more than a job when there is a help wanted sign across the street. it is a disincentive to not add onto your skills -- a disincentive to add onto your skills. i think the president is starting to recognize that so hopefully democratic governors are starting to realize that

employers are begging for employees. we cannot find truck drivers to get products to and from the marketplace. even the amusement parks on the border with cologne and south carolina with job openings are trying to find people to work. you see this up and down the streets now at the time when we have a high unemployment rate. there are help wanted signs all over the place. host: we will take sees ben viewers to the senate banking hearing with the ceos of the largest banks, but until then, continuing your conversations -- continuing the conversation with your phone calls. caller: [indiscernible] what they need to do is they need to do research into the

five-man regions of this great nation we have and figure out what one or two other clean energy sources will work within those regions. guest: i would agree, i feel we are being sold a bill of goods on energy right now and we are seeing it in gas prices. some of the energy sources they are selling for the future want make us energy independent. we are selling technology that does not exist and we are selling some potentially environmentally hazardous materials in these huge new batteries we are promoting and we have no idea how we are going to make those batteries and the energy sources it will take -- the energy resources it will take to make those batteries.

no one is asking how we are going to dispose of these batteries in the long run. every energy source has a long-term environmental impact on it, including some of the renewable things the biden administration is promoting. they are not talking about the negative aspects of that environment of source, and neither is the media. these batteries have major environmental issues that are not being discussed. even solar panels and i am an advocate of solar power. the chemicals to make solar panels are not environmentally sound and the disposal of environmental panels could be another issue of the future. no one is discussing that. when you deal with solar, you're talking about farmland being replaced and trees being replaced.

the last thing we want to do is cut down trees as environment lists, but that is where a lot of solar panels are going, areas that used to be forests. these are much more complex issues then we are admitting to regarding dealing with energy and the environment. it is common sense. this is part of my movement for common sense where we will have detailed discussion on energy and immigration and fiscal responsibility. host: to maryland, this is renee, democrat. caller: good morning. i want to just state that i am a business owner and we had five employees, now we have three. they went on unemployment. when the economy got better, they came back and there's the with us -- and they are still with us. i think the people of america

should be insulted that you are saying they don't want to work. the difference is that in d.c. the minimum wage is $15. the reason that your amusement parks have signs for people to work is because they are exempt from the minimum wage. the federal minimum wage is $7.25. people will work 40 hours and make six dollars for something an hour. my doctor did that. if you pay people enough, it will solve a lot of problems. instead of taking the money away from people who have to take jobs that are less than the jobs they were paid before they left, that is what is happening. please, people all over america, negotiate your salary.

do not take what they offer you. negotiate and ask for more. guest: i have no problem with her seeing negotiate and ask for more if the market demands it. there are a lot of summer jobs out there that many of us in society always took summer jobs. i took the minimum wage for summer jobs throughout high school and even in college. that was my entry point to try to get into the marketplace. that is not uncommon for places of entertainment to offer minimum wage jobs to offer teenagers any entry to get into a job. that has been going on for generations. it is a part-time summer job. there are many jobs that are paying much more than $15 an hour that are not being filled because they still can make more

money from the government then much more than $15 an hour. yeah people making over $30,000 a year. that is not -- you have people making over $30,000 a year. that is not fair for a mom and pop shop just trying to keep their head above the water. host: maybe one or two more calls as we wait for the senate banking committee to start. it is featuring the ceo's some of the nation's largest banks. until then, from missouri, an independent, you are on with governor pat mccrory. caller: this may sound like a joke but i am serious about this. we are talking about the lowest of the low wage jobs.

i think people like you, governor, you should go and help out the industries and all those people complaining about people getting a little more in unemployment. you all should just give up your jobs and do those low-wage jobs. i am a truck driver, i see trucks parked at truck stops all day long. i am serious about this, i want to hear what you have to say. listening to a radio talkshow one time, i heard an employer say he wanted his employees as desperate as he can get them, that way he knows that they will do the job and come to work and all of that. let's be sure you respond to that -- let me hear you respond to that. guest: any employer that says that is a bad employer and i

would change companies because that is not how you treat employees. i know we need to get people back into work and our government debt cannot keep affording to give away free money because nothing is free. anytime you hear a politician say i'm going to offer you free education or free benefits or free this, someone is paying for it. right now, no one is paying for. we are not even including that debt because we are not including the liabilities in federal government, state government, and local government. your children or great-grandchildren are going to come in and say you have to pay the bill now. reality, and i agree with a lot of what you said but this reality that nothing is for free and you have to earn it, and many of us have

earned it by -- that some of the best entry level jobs are paying 100,000, you become a plumber right now where someone in construction that is in deborah's -- a desperate need, you are going to make much more than an entry-level lawyer coming out of college. i am a big advocate of community college, skills training because that is where you can make the real money now. i wish i had that skill that my dad had growing up. host: we will have to end the conversation there, they hearing getting underway. come back again and talk to our viewers down the road, we appreciate you having you want. guest: thank you for having me. host: that will do it for our program. we take you live over to the senate banking committee hearing featuring ceos of some of the nation's largest banks already underway live here on c-span. >>