>> andrew stegner joins us for a conversation on unemployment insurance. he is a senior fellow at the century foundation who spent decades exploring protection policy. start by giving us a snapshot on what is available in most states today for somebody who loses their job today. guest: in most states, if you lost your job at the beginning of the pandemic and you continued to look for work, you continued to receive unemployment benefits, the

amount would be the basic benefit plus an additional $300. even if you lost your job because you did not have childcare or because you were sick with covid or a family member, you also could get federal unemployment benefits. that was not the case under standard laws. it really expanded out benefits because we did not want anyone to fall into poverty because of the unique circumstances of the pandemic. host: that additional federal benefits on top of the basic benefit, how is that basic benefit determined? guest: generally it is one half of your prior wages, but set to a cap that each state is to determine. in tennessee, you cannot get more than $275 per week in a basic state benefit. it is limited in most areas.

in louisiana, the state benefit averages only $193 per week. host: when it comes to unemployment insurance, 15.8 million people in the programs , $9 billion a week is what that costs during that pandemic come up about $728 billion spent compared to 27 billion in 2019. mr. stettner, how do those numbers of people in the programs fluctuate during the pandemic and where are they expected to go in the coming weeks and months? guest: they obviously want to record levels in the summer of 2020. you know, north of 21 million at one point and since then, have generally been at a plateau to the second half and steadily declined throughout 2021.

depending on the program, the benefits have been down 40% to 20% since the beginning of the year. as people slowly began to get back to work, finding suitable jobs. in general, this trend is moving in the right direction, people are moving, from unemployment benefits to work and hopefully not having long-term financial scarring and i think left to its own devices, we will get into it , but further, i think the benefits would have continued to taper down to the end of the year. host: some colors brought up today and we talked about jobs in the hospitality industry in the country, concerns by republicans that supplemental anthem -- unemployment insurance is creating a dis-incentive for workers to go back on the job.

this was senator mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate a week or two ago. >> we all knew what would happen. democrats insisted on continuing to pay more not work. in april, as the president of's policy set the fact, we only added 266,000 jobs. that is nearly 800,000 underestimates. just as jobs to million, the biggest number ever recorded. -- surge to 8 million, the biggest number ever recorded. of course, that is what happened. the record number of small businesses say they have opened jobs they cannot fill. governors across america are

having to take matters into their own hands and turn off these extra generous benefits. and states like arizona, georgia, montana, ohio, and west virginia, we have governors having to clean up this mess, which at least one of their own senators voted for. the policies that were needed in march of 2020 are not the policies we need in may of 2021. host: mitch mcconnell on the floor of the senate earlier this month. mr. stettner, to the points that he brings up? guest: that majority leader stated 23 states have actually done in unprecedented decision, they decided to back out early from the federal unemployment programs. you have to put yourselves in

their shoes, if you live in montana, one of the pills in mid-march, it was extended to mid-september, -- you know that you have another six months to do that, so you make plans and proceed accordingly and all, you are given 30 days, an announcement in the middle of may that it will end early. this question of unemployment benefits and the impact on work incentive is one of the most studied questions in economics and all of the research comes to similar conclusions. whatever effect there is as likely to be modest. most recent study from the federal reserve bank of san francisco described the results like this. there is 28 people unemployed on benefits, with the regular benefits, 7 would find a job each month. with the extra $300, perhaps changing the incentive, six of

those individuals will find that would find a job -- would find a job each month. the cost for the states and the families and the states is much larger than any unemployment game. these same businesses that are complaining about not being able to find workers have been happily accepting the debit card swipes unemployed people and those billions of dollars over the last year and that is what would -- four -- four -- they are working in retail stores, driving overnight trips, these are not great jobs that are out there and they are not well suited to everyone who was --

who has lost work. in arizona, i met with a woman who does events management for live events and conferences. right now, her company has one week at work and one week of furloughs in which she is receiving 550,000 dollars in unemployment benefits. that will be cut down the $250. what is she supposed to do in the interim weeks? is she supposed to quit her job? it does not make a lot of sense and it is essentially these governors are cutting off their noses host:. senior fellow with the century foundation, taking all phone calls to talk about the unemployment insurance program in this country, the lines as usual, (202) 748-8000 democrats, republicans, (202) 748-8001 and independents, (202) 748-8002. we start with a mic out of

harrisburg, pennsylvania, good morning. caller: morning. isn't it true that the government had this to find out exactly right for the upcoming school year? there's a good chance with the vaccinations and everything and the decreased cases that schools are probably going to be relatively normal in the fall compared tell last year -- compared to last year. people, they are going to stay on their unemployment because the child care system, the daycare system in this country is terrible. they do not pay the people and up that work there and the people that want to use daycare cannot afford it. it seemed to me having all of these things, having the kids go back to school and mom and dad give them a chance to get

serious about getting back to work and getting things squared away. and in my off the mark on that? guest: that is a great point. i think your statistics as it is now still about 44% of schools are at least hybrid in their construction and if your scores hybrid, you cannot go back to work full-time. and so, not everybody will be able to find a job by september. let's remember, we are still a-9 million job short and we will not recover all of those jobs. we do know it will be much easier for folks to go back to work in september, especially if we did what president biden talked about in his address on this. topic, help people find work, use evidence-based reemployment services, have someone look at your resume, give you some job coaching, we

know these are cost-effective and they help people find work. as part of the unemployment program, as part of getting back to normal. when it comes to these benefits, a 180 from realizing that we have to not use the requirements to all the sudden coming them off, so there are interim steps we can do over the next few months to help people look for jobs. host: morgantown, west virginia, democrats, good morning. caller: thank you for c-span. i wanted to mention that i appreciate the previous caller comments regarding childcare and your guest to comments regarding childcare. my question is this, my understanding is that when a person receives unemployment benefits, they had to do certain things that they had to actively apply for work and they had to accept the job before they came -- became available.

as that's not the case -- is that not the case with these unemployment benefits because i think people are perpetuating this narrative that people are lazy, that they do not want to, that they are undeserving poor, i am wondering, that just seems like subterfuge at the same requirements are still in place. i am wondering about that. guest: that is a great point. what happened was some of those requirements changed during the shutdown period. by the spring of this year, 30 states had reinstated the typical work search requirements and the president to most recent order, they ordered all of the states up the requirements in place, throughout this entire pandemic, if you are -- if your old employer offered you your job back and you refuse to come up you would have to have really a very tight reason to refuse

the job. you cannot just say, i did not feel comfortable going back to work. in fact, very few individuals, we are talking a few thousand out of millions have been divided -- denied benefits for this reason. my understanding, and there was a story on the washington post, when you took restaurant workers, a lot of people left the job entirely due to the pandemic. either they lost their job or they got less money and were -- they left their job. my own focus group, i talked to someone who decided to take care of and the person, another who went to private security and will lie, why would i go back to a restaurant, the wages are not good, the tips are all over the place, and i am going to do something else now. restaurants are troubling because they do not offer good jobs and in this environment,

people are not rushing back to get back jobs. host: pasadena, california, independent caller:. caller:i am calling because i am on employment and i am receiving the government stimulus and my money has been pending for three months. i am not looking for a job because california is still shut down and we are still trying to find jobs and we are not going back to restaurants. if they cannot afford living wages, close your business. we are not coming back. guest: i am sorry to hear that your benefits have been delayed. that has been a process millions of workers still because of the outdated technology and hoops people have to go through, people do not necessarily know,

the federal minimum wage for working in a restaurant is two dollars and $.13 -- $2.13. that is unbelievable in 20 21. one thing we want to see come out of this build that better, what does that mean? we ought to have a wages. i think these restaurants will find workers that need a start, coming out of high school, etc. this is not a reason to cut out everyone from unemployment benefits. i wish you luck, i hope you find a suitable job, one that will face your past experience. many have been out of work for the first time and some people were not able to work. they hit a curb -- any kind of curveball.

why are we punishing those who were just in the center who are equally impacted by the virus. host: you typed on this a bit earlier, but governors are changing the federal benefits, the headline from today to washington times i should say, states offering back toward bonuses, governors asking federal unemployment benefits to incentivize workers. how many governors are doing this, how are they able to sort of change the way that this money is going on? guest: the issue, why? these are temporary programs. they are not solid, they are offered through an agreement between the governor and the secretary of labor and that agreement gives either side a 30 day cancellation option. we think it is questionable that they are exercising it in that way, but that is what they are doing, it is 23 state, they are

all republican governors, it is as many as 4 million workers, 2 million of those workers are losing all unemployment benefits, so they are on programs like pua and the rest of these numbers are losing just the $300 supplement. so some 2 million workers are going to bureau and some are losing $300. host: bobby, mayfield, kentucky, republican, good morning. caller: good morning. yes, the companies -- they companies, mostly any company, they put in unemployment for the people. why did they governors have control over it?

-- why do the governors have control over it? guest: thank you for the question. it is a great point, it is just a bit confusing. when it come to the standard state benefit, that is heavily regulated under federal laws, but these are temporary federal programs, they are not paid for by the payroll taxes you mentioned. they are paid out of the general treasury and because of the temporary nature, is a short legal agreement and set of regulations. that allows the state to pull out of this. they cannot pull out of the basic benefits in kentucky, which averages probably around $300 a week, but they can pull out of the additional $300 on top of it. it is not paid by their payroll taxes. host: saint rose, louisiana, a democrat, good morning. caller: good morning.

i just want to tell you i live in louisiana and i live in -- next to eleanor's -- next to new orleans which is heavily dependent on the tourism industry and the restaurants and the hospitality industry does not save much. for example, some newer type the cafe, average pay for the worker would be like $200 a week and even when covid came and people were unemployed, they were getting $247 or less than $200 from the state unemployment benefits. so, the $300 or more that were

the federal government pay was a godsend to these working-class people. and now, -- now that republican senators and governors want to cut these, it is going to have a huge impact on the working-class people because they will not be able to pay rent and will be thrown out of their homes or apartments that they live in. and people need to understand that if you want them to come and work, you cannot live off of $200 a week. even when you are unemployed and got unemployment benefits, you cannot even apply for food stamps. host: mr. stettner. guest: i am looking forward to my next trip to new orleans to get something from the cafe.

we do not think about where those workers enter often. governor john bel edwards continued the $300 -- the unemployment rate in louisiana is over 7% because of the declines in tourism. you are seeing really the trajectory of jobs in these states is not related to the unemployment benefits, but more broader, economic forces, who was suffering the most, nevada, hawaii, louisiana, these are the states that are so dependent on tourism. neither are receiving the benefits, it is only a small share of workers that were eligible and able to make it through the process. it does not include most young people, etc. we are blaming the victims by

considering cutting out the benefits and i think it is something louisiana -- the african-american workforce very high, half are on unemployment benefits, they are overrepresented for the state, black workers often the first fired and last hired in a recovery, so providing benefits can help to deal with some of the credible inequality that we had during the pandemic. jeff bezos and others becoming multibillionaire's while a lot of people are suffering and the least we can do to people as have the strong unemployment benefits that can help people come out of holes, usually if you are yet unemployment is found them a their balance sheet is wrecked, they drained their retirement. that happened -- we need to

follow through all the way until the vaccination program has taken full effect, untold childcare gets back up, and then it will be much easier for. get out of work in an orderly fashion. he will not get all of these people back and work in one month. that -- these people back in a in one month. host: a couple of minutes left, how much waste, fraud, and abuse is there traditionally in unemployment insurance programs and we know it that went up during the additional spending during the pandemic? guest: what we do know happened during the pandemic, because this is the first period we have had a recession after the extreme levels of identity theft and some of the new programs

were rolled out and by necessity, they cannot have identity proofing and income proving as the traditional programs, but we do know that organized crime, fraud, attack, have been high on this program. when you pay several billion dollars now, even 10% of fraud as seen from a very high, but i want to emphasize that this fraud problem has not been -- bending the rules -- it has been much more and organized crime effort both internationally and domestically, people taking advantage of the system using stolen identities. host: last question from marcy in great bend, kansas, via a text messaging service. what you think about her

proposal. she says, i think lawmakers should have their pay computed by their state's unemployment formula and then let them decide whether the $300 as an additional windfall. if you have not been working on the service industry, at minimum wages higher slightly, and it is difficult to find employment that will pay a living, that supports food on the table and childcare. guest: we know many workers out there, many skilled workers have not been able to get back to work. we want time -- we wanted to get back to get a suitable job. -- we want them to get back to a suitable job. it is similar to the post-iraq, a war situation, some people never had to make any sacrifices economically. during the pandemic, they were able to work and do their thing while others have really struggled to get by, food pantries have been swarmed, people are holding onto their

homes just barely behind months in rent and yet, people are saying we have been too generous in our -- that has what made the economy strong going through this. that is why the sector is pointing out, this is a host: andrew stettner is a senior fellow at the century foundation. we appre

>> the stairway of which, on the evening of the 29th of april, fugitives were sent to a rooftop helicopter and secured their place as symbolic images. as with me, and all of my generations, the struggle was one of the most for most of our careers. i was one of those who flew out of the embassy, and was

terrified. announcer: his book is the soon to be released, "operation pedestal. -- and "overlord: d-day and the battle for normandy." join us with your text and tweets live at noon eastern sunday, june 6 with matt hastings. be sure to turn in -- tuning with harvard professor and historian gordon reed on c-span2. >> now, antony blinken talks about the by the ministration possible pledge to reunite the world. his remarks are part of the 51st annual conference of the americas.