>> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more including mid co.. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> mid co. supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democracy. >> we welcome we continue with "washington journal." host: we continue with john hostettler, vice president of federal affairs for state trust at the texas public policy foundation. what does the organization do? guest: it is the largest date based think tank foundation, and

a couple years ago the foundation decided to bring the idea of states having more control over their political destiny to washington, bringing some of that common sense, state oriented policy to washington, d.c., so they stood up an organization at states' trust, and we are dealing with issues like health care policy, election integrity policy, and immigration, energy and or the like. at the moment, front and center is the border, especially the border between texas and mexico. host: you were recently at the border. what is the common sense solution to this surge we have seen, over 100 80,000 interactions between the border agents and migrants just last month. guest: the common sense approach

is to simply return to the policy that was in place actually before january 20 of this year. from that point, biden's administration terminated enrollments in a program called the migrant prediction protocols, otherwise the remain in mexico policy. what the policies that is if you come into the united states, and make a claim for asylum and you are not a mexican national, then you will be returned to mexico while your claim is being processed here. so, what that did is it took a spike and -- in may of over 140,000 apprehensions at the border to a little over 23,000, less than a year later. so, that protocol, the remain in

mexico policy, has been the most successful at reducing the surge or crisis at the border. that was in place under the trump administration. and what we see today is the results of effectively terminating that policy, because if he will not enroll people in the program than the program is essentially nonexistent. and we heard from folks from del rio mpp, the protocol there has been the most successful program they have experienced and they want it back. host: explain the part of the border you saw. guest: in del rio, texas, that sector of the border has historically been one of the lowest areas with regard to experiencing illegal encounters, illegal alien encounters at the border, but year over year, from may of 2020 to 2021, there has

been a 400% increase. del rio is a relatively small city. it's not the size of mcallen, where the rgb sector headquarters are, or el paso, it's basically in the center of the southern border between texas and mexico. so it has not seen an unprecedented crush of illegal migration across the border. only in 2019 committed -- in 20, did del rio get an organization to deal with the crisis. so this is something they are unfamiliar with, and understandably unprepared for, and is crushing the county. host: a lot of questions this week about vice president kamala harris and her efforts on

migration. when she will go to the border, if you are advising her, where would you tell her to go? guest: i would definitely tell her to go to del rio, because it was eye-opening. we had a townhall meeting hosted by some local officials there, and we were able to hear firsthand from people living in the area and how it is affecting them, their businesses, their personal lives, families, ranges and properties. and -- ranges and properties. and one thing i didn't do, i wish i could have taken a poll -- i have been out of office for several years, so i am rusty on these things, but thee secretary there has said that the border -- but the secretary there has said that the border is closed. but i wish i could've asked of

those folks there if the border was closed. i think i know what the unanimous opinion of that would have been. host: the vice president did travel to mexico and guatemala this week, addressing the root causes of migration. this was her speaking on monday at a news conference about the message to migrants. this is what she had to say. [video clip] vice president harris: the goal of our work is to help guatemalans find work -- hope at home. at the same time, i want to be clear to folks in this region that are thinking about making that dangerous trek to the u.s.-mexico border, do not come. do not come. the united states will continue to enforce our laws and secure our border. there are legal methods by which

migration can and should occur. but we, as one of our priorities, will discourage illegal migration. and i believe if you come to our border, you will be turned back. so let's discourage our friends, neighbors, family members from embarking on what is otherwise an extremely dangerous journey, where in large part the only people who benefit are coyotes. host: the vice president on monday. did she send the right message? guest: she sent the right message in words, but i can tell her from firsthand experience, from what i heard from local officials and people in del rio especially, and that is if she believes, as she said, that they will be turned back, that is not

a very strong belief because it is not happening. i can tell you firsthand it is not happening because we saw people who had come to the border the very day that were going to be released into the interior. this idea of telling the people of the northern triangle countries, and elsewhere, not to come is something that biden did in an interview in the middle of march, and on the first day of his administration, when the department of homeland security issued that notice to terminate enrollment for the remain in mexico policy, they had in the same announcement a statement for people not to come to the southwest border to try to cross illegally because the immigration bill that the president would send the capital hill would not cover them. so, from the very beginning,

literally from the beginning of this administration, they have known that this is going to be the result of these policies that they put in place. and they should realize actions speak louder than words. it doesn't matter how many times you admonish foreign nationals not to come, they will come, they are coming and there is nothing that says they will stop coming. host: john hostettler served in congress and the 90's and early 2000's, now with the public -- texas public policy foundation, and here with us on "washington journal." we are taking your phone calls about immigration issues. 202-748-8001 for republicans. 202-748-8000 for democrats. for independents, 202-748-8002. this is fortune out of new york, an independent. good morning.

are you with us? caller: yes, good morning. i am appalled by the congressman. if he was in congress, why didn't he do something to actually fix these problems when there was a republican majority in congress? guest: we took several measures in the 12 years i was in congress. we passed the illegal immigration reform act to put in place many provisions that would strengthen, at that time, what was the ims. and then the department of homeland security was created, where we consolidated the immigration customs under the department of homeland security. and we enacted the secure fence

act, which would have established defense along 750 miles of the southern border. so, we did take measures in that timeframe, in the 12 years i was in congress, but to your point that has been a problem for decades. previous administrations on the republican side, and the democrat side, have been slow to aggressively enforce the border. it's something that we are still dealing with today. host: greg, republican in new carlisle, ohio. caller: how were you? host: doing well. caller: i believe it is time to talk about impeachment of the biden administration because two migrants went to my best

friend's home down in texas and killed the family. now, you do not hear nothing about that. they are covering it up. and i am tired of biden. it's time to renounce. guest: impeachment would be a measure to potentially addresses, but unfortunately what we need to do is put in policies -- put in place policies now that would provide for strengthening the border now. if you look at the makeup of congress at this time it would be unlikely that articles of impeachment would be considered in the democratically controlled house, much less tried in the senate, so what we are concentrating on at the texas public policy foundation is more reinstating policy that we know has worked and putting in place

new policy we believe will enhance even further the situation on the border. host: arlington, washington, this is jeff, a democrat. caller: good morning. i think it needs to be pointed out that nobody in the biden administration has talked about that we have open borders. the only people saying that is idiots on fox news and the trump-eteers. how much of that stuff has caused immigrants to want to -- cause a surge in illegal immigration. host: go ahead and give us your second question. caller: come again? host: what is your second question? caller: that is the other thing. i never heard anybody talk about

this, my comment about how much of the influx of people coming across the border have been caused by these idiots on fox news? guest: to my point earlier, actions speak louder than words. so, whether it is the biden administration saying the borders are closed or fox news, as you say, might be saying that the borders are open, the fact of the matter is is the processes and policy in place will determine the surge at the border. good policy will cause people to stay-at-home, stay out of the u.s. and bad policy, or no policy, will simply invite more people into the country. host: a couple questions from social media. jen wants to know if you are

advocating impeaching biden over the border policy? guest: no, i am not advocating for that. host: mark from florida, how could four years of republicans not have fixed the problem? guest: actually, four years of republicans did fix the problem. his name was donald trump, quite honestly. his administration put in policies, whether it was the remain in mexico policy for asylum claims, dealing with mexico or the asylum cooperative agreements that were signed by el salvador, honduras and guatemala. that administration put in place policies, some of them ultimately overturned, but many of the strong ones were in place and they did significantly reduce the illegal encounters at the border. so, four years of a republican

did make a difference. host: 180,000 encounters reported by customs and border control last month, the numbers included less children, but more single adults, the vast majority of them under title 42, trying to prevent the spread of covid. how long it title 42 around four? do we know if -- for? do we know if that is something that will be rescinded as we move out of the covid crisis? how long do you expected to be around? guest: i expect title 42 not to be around much longer as the rest of the world continues to get vaccinated. i think that this administration will have the excuse to relax it, they already have with regard to unaccompanied alien children. and so, i think that they are

quite desirous to terminate title 42 altogether. and i will say this, that while that will cause an increase in illegal entry into the united states, there's the other side of this, and that is because of title 42, those restrictions, individuals from mexico who are legally allowed, and have documentation to come into the u.s., are being prohibited from doing so. so, some of them are actually finding it easier to come into the united states illegally. so, there's all kinds of problems with the seen and unseen happening with this administration's lack of policy. host: the texas policy

foundation, i wonder if you can explain the texas news. this from dallas morning news, the governor says texas will begin building a barrier along the border, offering few details, but saying that texas will arrest those that try to breach the barrier. construction starting immediately, according to the article. guest: continuing the building of the wall in texas has been something that the public policy foundation, our ceo, has been putting in place or has been talking about for quite a long time. and so, this is something that we think needs to take place. so, we have admonished the governor to do this admonished the governor to do this.

-- the federal government has stopped construction, unfortunately, leaving holes in the construction. in del rio, for example, they have been able to get under temporary fencing and get over the temporary fencing, as a result of the holes in the wall or fencing. so texas is doing what texas does, they will fix their own problems and we think that is a good place to go. and the governor also said he's going to look into individuals. he will take applications from individuals who have had property damage and try to obtain reimbursement from the federal government as a result of the biden administration not executing the laws of the united states. creating a task force of officials in texas to address of the border crisis. so, we think that these are all

very good measures that the governor is putting forward. host: more from that dallas news story, the texas legislature passed a budget that ups spending on security. it remains to be seen whether that will be taxed for this new initiative. lupe is waiting in california on the independents line. good morning. caller: good morning. what i can't understand -- i'm 75, i have been in my apartment for 21 years, and there's only three other people who have been here since i have been here. everybody else has six or seven people living in a one-bedroom or two-bedroom apartment. and this happened during the trump administration. and they keep coming in.

what i am saying is what is better than a video, other than words -- if you can't see it or touch it, take videos of what is going on at the border. in california, we put everything on video. here, everybody is coming in, and they wake me up. last night, somebody ring my doorbell at 11:30 p.m. and i said, who is there? i wouldn't open it. guest: i think that we are hearing the frustration all along the border, and it is a good idea to take video, if this all falls on deaf ears in the biden administration, which at this point that seems to be the case. at least the american people will know and see what is happening as a result of the lack of policy on the part of the biden administration, but to another point, the folks in del

rio wanted us to talk about -- as you mentioned, i served in the house from the state of indiana -- what's happening and del rio is a transient situation. they do not have the capacity or authorization for an overnight accommodation for the people that they serve. so, what is coming into del rio or passing through del rio -- they are passing through quickly. the volunteer that spoke to us from the coalition at the ngo said that they are going to florida, utah, and indiana. she didn't know that i was from indiana, but indiana and all over the country, so what begins on the border does not end at the border. it is coming to the rest of the country, and that is why we need good policy at the border. host: do you know if customs or

border patrol agents wear body cameras, and if so is that viewable? can media get access to that? guest: that is a good question. i'm not sure of that, but that is something we need to ask. we'll look into that. host: richard in maryland, a democrat. caller: good morning. a couple of callers referenced the lackluster performance when it comes to immigration policy. i want to expand on that, that this influx of illegal immigrants really started under the george bush administration. he met with president fox five plus times, and you can believe me, they were not talking about guacamole. right after that, hordes of people came over the border and it was national policy to fill the corporate interest for chief

employment and another thing for that was it gave them the opportunity to supplant the the largest minority groups jobs, housing and everything else, by allowing them to come work for cheap labor, construction, food service and of the whole bit. -- and the whole bit. the only time the republicans get involved in this is when they can weaponize or to possibly use this to get back into power. george bush -- there's a great story of a young reporter that -- this is a great story to dig out. host: got your point. congressman? guest: what is happening now is probably what is more pertinent to the folks living now, but i will respond that in 2006, the

republican-controlled senate passed an amnesty. it was a republican -- so, if you think it is something now, you would have to understand that the first amnesty passed in 1986 created the wave that would come to us 20 years later and it was a republican controlled hou of representativesse -- house of representatives that did not pass the amnesty in 2006. so, republicans have been somewhat of two minds on this issue, but as i mentioned earlier, and i know the caller probably does not want to talk about the trump administration, but we know that the remain in mexico policy, the agreements with the northern triangle countries like condor's, el salvador and guatemala, showed a

significant reduction in encounters at the southern border. so if we want to fix this thing, and cannot talk a lot about history -- i love history -- but we need to return to the policies we know have worked. host: steve saying, e-verify is not enforced. who's obstructing? guest: it is to a great extent voluntary on the part of employers. and for several years, when i was in congress and my colleague from texas was there, basically the author of the system there, we worked to try to get it mandatory but as is the case, there are a lot of vested interest in washington that did not want to that to happen. host: who specifically? guest: various employers.

not all employers, but there were many industries that did not want to take this on. host: because of the cost or because of the concern that they would have to lose workers? guest: they would lose workers. they would lose workers and they would have to pay higher wages in order to retain workers to replace them. when i was in congress, we attempted to make that mandatory on several occasions, on multiple occasions, but we were not able to. so the caller does have an important point. host: industries do not get a vote in congress, so was it republicans that pushed back against you making that mandatory, or was that the democrats? when you tried to move it to the floor, where was the pushback? guest: across the board.

it was bicameral and bipartisan. when the democrats had control of both chambers of congress, and the white house, they could've put e-verify as mandatory. they could do it today. they have not done it today. it republicans did not make it. we created it, but we didn't make it mandatory. like i said, there are both sides of a coin to this. host: we are with john hostettler of the texas public policy foundation, working on the state trust initiative there. check them out at statest rust.com. easy enough to find. tony in connecticut, democrat. caller: good morning. i'm a lifelong democrat in a blue state, and my senators and

aoc, a couple years ago, went down and showed the dying kids in the water, the kids in the cages, and i do not see them anymore. and i am tired of seeing the poo r people dying in the rivers. and there seems to be a divide, certain parties, certain sides will call this a crisis. others do not quality crisis. cnn does not quality crisis. c-span, i have watched the last few weeks, you have had the border crisis and with all this stuff going on you have not used the word crisis yet. pedro called it an issue. is it a crisis or not? please, start making this a partisan -- stop making this a partisan thing.

the silence is deafening. host: did you vote for joe biden? caller: yes, i did. and i am very disappointed. my gas has gone up, my food has gone up. this is craziness. host: do you think that joe biden has a stronger border policy than donald trump? caller: what concerns me is we paid for the wall and biden stopped the wall. why would you leave holes in the wall? host: my question is, why did you vote for joe biden? caller: i voted for him because i thought we needed a change, i thought we needed a change. the country was too divided. i did not mind donald trump's policies, but what i saw on tv, including this station, was too much hatred. you hear the people on tv, there

is hatred. you see this thing on the g7 summit, these people are meeting with joe biden and they did not give maloney other time of day. when -- melania the time of day. you couldn't get anything done. host: congressman? guest: there is an issue at the border, and in my opinion, as a result of hearing all of the other stories from the border, as well as what is potentially happening within the interior, i do believe there is a crisis. and i think it is important for folks like tony to know that everything going on now under the biden administration, the candidate joe biden said in a very lengthy campaign website dissertation on what was going to happen, all of this we knew.

the texas public policy foundation, after the election in november of 2020, basically wargamed joe biden doing what he said he was going to do during the campaign. and we predicted this crisis at the border. so, this is not really news. it's newsworthy as it is today, but what is happening is not really news. i will address also a very troubling aspect of our visit to the border, and that was the sheriff mentioned that in 2020, they unfortunately pulled either three or four individuals from the water who had drowned as a result of trying to cross illegally. this year, they have already taken nine individuals out of

various bodies of water that have tried to cross, including a haitian woman who was expecting twins. the sheriff said they claimed all three souls in their statistics, which i think is appropriate. so, this lack of a policy, the factors drawing hundreds of thousands, and will likely be millions by the end of the calendar year, to the border, are causing widespread catastrophe upon humanity in all various aspects of this endeavor. and we hope the biden administration will take another look at policy. host: you have talked about your trip to del rio, what is on the other side of the break -- of the border there?

guest: it is a much larger city than del rio. it's about five or six times the size of del rio. and many people there can cross into mexico to work in mexico. we had one tragic account from one of the attendees of our town hall meeting who says she has a friend that lives in mexico, that she works with, that was raped by -- she alleged it was an illegal alien making their way through mexico into the united states. so this tragedy is on both sides of the border, both with the citizens of the u.s. and citizens of mexico. and those people in that mexican city are frustrated and furious about what is happening at the border, as much as the folks in del rio. it's just that the reason this

is happening is because of a lack of policy and changes in policy by the biden administration. host: we have 10 minutes left with john hostettler. blake in mississippi, good morning. caller: i want to let the congressman know that what's important is i'm tired of them playing around when black people are the foundation of this country. you can't just tell people to send us our huddled masses when you have your photo my neck, with policies from jim crow -- there's discrimination on every end. to have these people coming into my neighborhood -- when people come to this country, they come to take out of the black man's mouth. they don't upset people, white

people, for a generation or so. but when they come here they have to have a job, and the first person they step on -- with immigration the unemployment is double. and they are impacting african-americans in our country. one race has 30 times the wealth of another race in this country. guest: when i was chairman of the committee on immigration security, we dealt with this issue and of the impact of illegal migration into the u.s. on the black community. and it is a significant issue. it's a significant problem. and that is an issue lost in many situations. we've got to address it. to the gentleman's point, we

have to address what is happening in this country, and it will be hard to do as long as there is this mass influx of illegals coming into the country. to a point you mentioned, the idea of turning people back on title 42, we just learned in the middle of last month that while the administration has been saying this same thing for their entire tenure, that they are turning people away, that in february through april they released a 61,000 individuals into the interior. so, much of what we are being told is happening, we're learning through reports after the fact that that is probably not the case. host: carol in royal oak, michigan, a republican. caller: good morning. i have two comments. one, do you think our country will ever have the courage to do

away with the anchor baby law? and two, i live in michigan and i can't imagine an influx from canada, which borders us, with what you are dealing with in texas. i will hang up and listen to your answer on the anchor baby. thank you. guest: the so-called anchor baby situation is is situation that arises as a result of the 14th amendment, section i, saying citizens born in the u.s. shall be citizens of the united states. so, that has been interpreted since the ratification of that amendment to say that if an individual is born in the united states, then they are a citizen of the united states. so, there is ongoing debate,

especially within conservative circles, and think tanks, as to whether that is actually the case. that if the wording of that amendment ratified -- i think it was in 1868 -- is that still true today and does it apply today, or did it apply to freed slaves as an extension of the 13th amendment. that's an ongoing debate. it's being handled in the courts as saying if a person is born in the united states, they are a citizen of the united states. host: 1868 is the year for that amendment. do you want to do away with first right citizenship? guest: the texas public policy foundation has taken no position on this and we are more concentrated on the policy at

the border. so, i would love to return to you at some time in the future to talk more about birthright citizenship and the 14th amendment. host: we will have you back on. a couple more minutes and a couple more callers. cheryl in kansas city, kansas. caller: i want to know wha aret we for the border? the economy, is it getting back on track? host: two big questions. guest: with regard to the border, i can tell you that -- and i should've said this at the offset -- the border patrol, customs, they are stretched to their limits. they are true heroes in this crisis. and they are literally keeping people alive. they are lives at the border.

they are executing the policy that this administration has put in place, as agents of the executive branch. and -- but i can tell you without reservation that, that i believe that they are frustrated because they see what is happening and they understand that, as i mentioned, 61,000 released over three months, that we know of, that have been officially reported. and that is very different from the previous administration . so what is happening at the border is effectively an open border to a large section of those who come to the border. so, i will say that that is the situation that we have. the second question, i cannot remember that one. host: you have the final minute to wrap up here.

guest: our border security coalition of the texas public policy foundation, we have about 12 or 14 members who went to del rio recently and what we learned there was that the border is stressed. and as i mentioned, border patrol and customs border protection are stretched to the limit. they are doing the best job they can under the policy constraints that they have been put under. and what is happening at the border is ultimately going to come to the places i mentioned that the folks at the ngo said at the border, and that is they are going to come to utah, florida, indiana. we know of oe particular group of migrants -- one particular group of migrants going to portland, oregon, as a result of interaction we had with folks at an airport.

this crisis is going to come to the rest of the country, it's just a matter of time. that's why we need to return to the policies that have worked and have demonstrated that they are working. host: former congressman john hostettler with the texas public policy foundation where he work >> book tv on c-span two has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. saturday, at 9 p.m. eastern, west selling author, john grisham. on his work with the innocence project and wrongful. sunday, at 9 p.m. eastern, the former nypd commissioner on his book. he is interviewed by charles ramsey, for philadelphia police commissioner and metropolitan

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committee ranking member, john katko, discusses strengthening u.s. cybersecurity after recent ransomware attack's. this is part of a virtual is gushing with the american enterprise institute. following his remarks, a panel of cybersecurity experts talk about lessons learned from the 2016 and 2020 elections and the best way forward in cybersecurity policy and inter-agency cooperation. shane: good morning and happy friday. thank you for joining us at the american enterprise institute with representative john katko. we're going to talk about cybersecurity and i'm excited about this discussion. john katko is a republican representative from the the fourth district of new york and serves on the house homeland security committee. but before joining congress, he had a major role at the department of justice as the assistant united states attorney ge