book notes plus, here is some of our conversation with the late liz carpenter. subscribe where you get your podcasts. announcer: c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we're funded by these television companies and more including ntco. ♪♪ ♪♪ midco supports c-span along with these other television providers giving you a front seat to democracy. host: ben jeaa conversation on voting rights. he serves as president of the people for the american way.

remind us what your group's vision is and how you carry it out. guest: we believe that freedom, justice and opportunity and equality is what creates democracy. we were founded 40 years ago by congressman jordan and norman lear, the man who brought us "good times" and "all in the family." what we focus on is empowering the people of this country to have their voices heard on the future of our democracy, and on key issues like public safety. host: what with the enactment of the for the people act, what would that mean for people's empowerment tos have their voices heard? guest: it is about making it easier for working people to vote and harder for billionaires to buy elections.

that is why the u.s. chamber, who represents corporations, has become such an obstacle and that is where the koch industries has become such an obstacle. they like it when billionaires or billion-dollar corporations can buy elections. but the people of this country support the for the people act. host: what is the path forward for the act in the wake of what we have talked about this week, senator joe manchin saying he is not in favor of that legislation or ending the filibuster to move toward other legislation? guest: his statements were unfortunate. it's hard to believe that a democratic senator would want to go down as a person to hold important protections of our neighbors' rights.

with that said committee 3% of the people support the bill because it is about making it easier for working people to vote and harder for billionaires to buy elections. it is not just democrats, it is the majority of independents, republicans and the majority of west virginia. the people of west virginia and the people of this country will make sure that joe manchin knows how they feel. it's important to say that not every republican has closed the door to the act, so we are in a full-court press. the president and a chuck schumer have said that failure is not an option. and the people of this country are clear that these are the types of things we value. host: you mentioned republicans on the act, you do have a voice there in mitch mcconnell. this is what he had to say. [video clip] >> would you be willing to support the act? >> the voting rights bill is

intact. the law extends well into the future. what this rewrite of it does is grant to the justice department almost total ability to determine the voting systems of every state in america, that they are trying to do directly through hr-1, they would try to achieve indirectly through this rewrite of the voting rights act. the supreme court did not strike down the voting rights act. it's still alive and still a law, but they struck down the preclearance part of it that applied only to the southern part of the united states because the supreme court concluded the conditions that existed in 1965 no longer exist. so, there is no threat to the voting rights law.

it's against the law to discriminate when voting on the basis of race already, so i think it is unnecessary. host: mitch mcconnell this week. ben jealous on those comments. can you explain the difference between the voting rights act and hr-1. ? guest: the john lewis voting rights act is hr-4 and for the people act is the voting rights act would restore the victory he won when he was young, that has been gutted. but hr-1, s-1, is what john lewis spent the rest of his life fighting for. he was a good friend. and he came to the realization

that billionaires are buying our elections, they are buying our politicians, too. mitch mcconnell is a subsidiary of coke industries -- koch industries. a majority of independents and republicans do support it. you will see in an expose the fact that republicans do not want, not mitch mcconnell, but republican voters do not want billionaires buying their elections either. but do not worry, mitch mcconnell will kill it for us. that is what we are trying to deal with, is we have to have

greater transparency. if billionaires, if billion-dollar corporations are seeking to buy our elections, or buy our politicians, and they own some light mitch mcconnell, we should know. it should be easy. host: ben jealous is with us until the bottom of the hour at 9:30 a.m. eastern, taking our phone calls as we talk about the issue of voting rights legislation, the path forward and what has happened at week on that front. 202-748-8001 for republicans. democrats at 202-748-8000. independents at 202-748-8002. robert is in pennsylvania, an independent. caller: good morning. thank you. this is a terrific program, fair for both sides. let me ask one question first.

you are so critical to identify the coke brothers -- koch brothers. maybe you are right, may be wrong. what about the other billionaires? i do not see you being critical about them. doesn't this country and almost everything we do, don't we have to identify ourselves that we are the people assigning for let's say licenses, going to drug companies and the pharmacy? if do you people were really fair, i mean people that you support, were fair, then let's change everything. let's have it be -- we should have to do it for everything, not just voting rights or what you support, which is understandable. guest: i appreciate the spirit of your comments. the transparency we are talking about would affect both sides.

what is different by our organization -- what is different with our organization, which was founded by democrats, is that we -- the transparency we support would be for everybody. recently i was in a back and forth with ted cruz in the senate subcommittee and he asked that we disclose our top five funders. we did that. but the conservative groups did not do that. when we disclosed our top funders, three of them had an average gift of less than a thousand dollars, then gave part of their estate or part of the value of their house when they passed away to our organization. we are regular folks who believe in transparency for both sides, who would like to see a return

to the bipartisanship that was there at our founding. when i was young in 1989. the reality is you are right, transparency should be on both sides. this would impact the billionaires on both sides. what is different about the koch brothers as they have been waging a war on this bill and all voting rights for more than 10 years. the reality is if you go back in the history of our country and you look at voter suppression, it's been targeted historically on black people, and women. and for those that fought in the massachusetts regiment of their revolutionary war, the private in the colonial army, the white men who did not own land were forbidden from voting, too. so when you see this attack on voting rights, it disproportionately impacts black people and working women because

they are disproportionately poor, but they also impact working-class white people, regardless of party, so the koch brothers war on voting rights will affect many different people. our push for transparency will require democratic and republican billionaires to be transparent about their efforts to influence our elections. host: you mentioned your group is looking for a returned bipartisanship. joe manchin, and part of his reasoning for not supporting s-1, said he wouldn't want toppe is looking for bipartisanship when it comes to election reforms, that is the only way they will be embraced by the country. so why isn't he right? guest: he is, but part of the problem with redistricting is it

has made the congress more extreme. as president of the naacp, we would sit down with republicans, and there are people who had a c who now have an f. 25 years ago, 20% of my -- was blacks, 30% was democrat, and i could say to the entire district, sometimes we have to support black folks, sometimes we have to support things the democrats are interested in. but now, my entire district is white republicans. like 94% of it. and it is very hard for me to explain to the district why i should be more inclusive in my voting pattern. so we have got to -- to reform redistricting. partisan redistricting is a huge problem. what happens is as the congress takes in more because they have been gerrymandered, when they

are promoted to the senate, they show that they are more extreme as well. host: how would s-1 help they gerrymandering issue, talk about what it does for redistricting in this country. guest: it would create incentives for the states to finally move beyond redistricting, just as it would make it harder for the states to eliminate early voting, it would make it hard for the states to continue to from voting. they are rebuilding their lives and should be able to vote. it is dealing with these obstacles that disproportionately makes it harder for working-class people to vote. at the same time, requiring folks to be transparent. host: ruth in florida, republican. caller: good morning.

thank you for your show. i have a couple of things to say about the bill the democrats are trying to pass. first of all, it gives politicians contributions from the taxpayers. like a six to one ratio. secondly, they want to do it with voter signature. -- do away with voter signature. voter id. we need id's to do almost anything. i do not understand why they want to do away with that. states like florida -- a lot of the states have early voting which gives people the opportunity not just a vote on election day, but some as much as three weeks or a month before the election. i do not understand.

the constitution gives the power to the state legislators to determine the voting requirements for their states. if people don't -- delaware. biden's home state. they don't have early voting. i don't understand why they think this is voter suppression when they changed all the laws in the swing states, not by the legislatures, but by judges and secretaries of state. host: can i ask you one question, ruth? how do you feel about mail-in voting? there are some states that have all mail-in voting. what are your thoughts on voting that way? caller: i think absentee voting is fine. where you contact, you know, your precinct and ask for a vote

-- a ballot to be mailed to you. they identify you by your signature. i don't think that just mailing out votes to everybody on the voting list -- some of those people are not even alive. a lot of people have moved. the names have not been deleted from the roles. -- rolls. it would eliminate anybody removed from voter rolls. it's -- i'm glad manchin, who represents a republican state, is against it. host: ben jealous, bringing you back into the conversation. guest: let's talk about that for a second. she talked about early voting. my cousins in southern virginia, those cousins are long-distance

truckers. they go for 2, 3, 4 weeks at a time. a lot of contracts for the u.s. military. that is why early voting is important. working people can't always show up on a tuesday. some of them can be out of their state for weeks at a time. early voting makes it easier for them to vote. i also have cousin to work in places where the schedule is always changing. again, they will not know the tuesday before election day what their schedule is going to be the next tuesday and if they can show up to vote. if they do show up, that means they are not at work and they can lose their job. having early voting is about making it easier, whether you work at the mall, drive a truck, for working people to vote. we believe you should not have to pay money in order to vote. you have to pay money to get

ids. sometimes it can be quite arduous. there are older folks in the country whose birth records frankly were lost when old courthouses burned down before everything was digitized. you can find it extremely hard. rural doctors have made it their business to help their elderly patients get ids. they can cost hundreds of dollars and take months. we believe voting should -- americans of all colors and parties believe voting should be safe. it should be easy. it should be accurate. we do not need to make people buy ids to do it. the republican party, in a state like texas, you can vote with a good idea but not your student id. that is just -- gun id but not your student id. that is just partisan mischief. the bill would make it easier

for working people to vote. make it harder for billionaires to buy elections. point by point, 83 percent of americans agree. let's be clear here. we talk about public financing of the elections. it makes it easier for people who are not rich devote. when i ran for governor, you know, i would not have been able to do it if i couldn't afford to not work full-time for two years. when i ran for governor, i was told we could not raise within $10 million of what it would take to get name recognition up to 100%. most of the time the parties will not recruit somebody for senate who does not have a net worth of over $1 million. that is why we need public financing in elections.

i would like folks like the caller to feel confident they can run. they will be no wealth requirement, implicit or exquisite. making it possible for all of us to run. host: we have been talking about two voting rights bills, the expansive for the people act, and the narrower john lewis voting rights act. i wonder your thoughts on how to move forward. if you can get the john lewis voting rights act, bipartisan support for that, and joe manchin indicated there is. lisa murkowski is on that bill. is that a steppingstone to the for the people act, or does the passage of that sort of shut off the interest in passing another voting rights bill on top of it? guest: no. there is a massive demand for both of these bills.

before the bill act is supported by 83% of people. the voting rights restoration act is urgently needed. politicians in more than 40 states put in more than 300 bills to make it harder for working americans devote. we act like voter suppression measures will only affect lack people. that's not true. in 1902, there was the jim crow constitutional convention. in that state, senator glass in 1902 put up five voter suppression measures. a ban on incarcerated people voting still is in place. it explains very plainly the purpose of the bill is to "restore white supremacy of the law -- white supremacy of the

law of the land in every county in virginia." he explains it will impact a lot of white people, but in his eyes they would impact more black people so it's ok. that is what we have to be clear about. these voter suppression bills are being passed, 300 bills that would limit early voting. that impacts long-distance truckers whether they are black or white. it requires people to buy expensive ids and that impacts americans who may have lost their driver's license or lost their id or have a student id but don't have a gun license. pay money so they can qualify devote. all they are trying to do is make it harder for working people to vote. whenever you hear someone talking about -- it's usually an apologia, a sense of why they are for voter suppression. we have seen republican

politicians, governors, presidents, for 20 years talking of voter fraud, voter fraud, voter fraud. they find statistically almost nobody. you have a better chance of knowing somebody who truly believes they have been abductive a ufo then finding a prosecutable case of voter fraud. for better chance of finding someone who was been bitten by a shark then finding a prosecutable case of voter fraud, actual voter fraud. there is a consisten -- if you look at why they said my ancestors should not be able to vote, black folks should not be able to vote, they made it clear they thought we were softheaded and other folks could influence the election and making sure people who lacked mental faculty to understand politics could

vote. we were too uneducated and too slow. women. go back to the attacks on the women's voting rights in the 19th century and 18th century. they argued a man with a wife would have two votes. honestly, try that at home. tell your wife out of vote and see how it turns out for you. that was the argument. going back to working-class white men, the privates and the revolutionary army who could not vote until the 1840's. they said a man who owned no land was not tied to anyplace and therefore could hop on horseback or run on foot and steal the elections from town to town on election day. it was a lie. they used the specter of voter fraud in the wake of the make and revolution to ultimately justify attacking working peoples ability to vote. they did it to the privates in

the revolutionary army. white men could have voted this country until i was the middle of the 19th century if they did not own land. they told the light about women into the 20 century, and black folks as well. it is time for us to embrace the fact that every american has the right to vote. we are the country they give the world the notion of one person, one vote in the modern era. it is critical that we truly live up to that and stop cynical politicians who would put politicians before principal, extreme partisanship before principal and finally past the act that 83% of people support. host: ben jealous, former democratic nominee for maryland governor. former president of the naacp. taking your phone calls for the lines for democrats, republicans and independents.

good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would like to point out that my daughter is extremely mentally handicapped in her 40's. we have to have a government issued identification card for her for her to be able to do just about anything. health care, you name it. we have to prove who she is. your position that getting an identification card is difficult has some merit to it. yeah, you have to go to a go we have to prove who she is. your position that getting an identification card is difficult has some merit to it. yeah, you have to go to a government center. you have to pay a few dollars. you have to wait in line. you have to get your photograph taken, etc., etc.

there is no reason if my daughter needs a government id card for basic services why someone should not be able to get an identification card to prove who they are and prove they are an american citizen before they vote. that is reasonable. it is not unreasonable. second, i would like to point out that george soros is very much a liberal. he gives millions, perhaps billions of dollars to the kind of individuals you would vote for. so, with all the respect, sir, you seem like a decent guy. but i take exception to your positions. i think they are a little misled. and probably due to your own personal biases. host: let me give ben jealous a chance to respond.

guest: sure. well, thank you sir -- thank you, sir and thank you for being the committed parent you are. it is impressive to see parents stick with their kids through everything. it is what we do as parents. it is what is expected from us. yet it deserves commendation. i really respect you for caring for your daughter. the -- what i would also say it's it is a big country with 600 million people. we have to make sure our voting laws fit all of us. i have sat with elderly women whose only copy of the birth certificate was lost in a fire in a courthouse 60, 70 years ago. the state said you had to have an original copy in order to get the id they need to vote. they are pulling their hair out. we have to go to judges, fella -- we have to go to courts and judges and fill out affidavits. it was her doctor taking up the cause of making sure all the

patients at the practice, a formal practice serving poor people and the elderly could vote. she was shocked new laws in her state -- this was 10 years ago. that they were keeping her elderly clients from voting because of a piece of paper. everybody knew it had been burned up and it could not be produced. we have to make sure it fits everyone. as far as transparency, i support transparency for every billionaire. my family, both sides, goes way back in building this democracy. the whiteside in new england. the black side and virginia. -- in virginia. families that came here 400 years ago. my dad's side is 396. and we have always fought to ensure our democracy works for all of us. it is sad to me that we are back in the days -- these days of

extreme partisanship. the reality is the leaders of today's republican party looks like the leaders of the democratic party 100 years ago. the leaders of today's democratic party look a lot like the leaders of the republican party the civil war. i really can't put a whole lot of stock in parties but i do care about people. you care about your daughter. i care about this country, sir, just like you do. all i ask is we make it easy for every american to vote. we did for centuries. it is only been here the last 10 years as the coke brothers -- koch brothers pile their money into attacking early voting and attacking voting on sunday, requiring government ids. things come upright -- quite -- things, quite frankly, that libertarians have had an issue

with historically. we have got to get back to first principles. voting should be accurate. voting should be easy. host: this is glen, a republican. marcus hook, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. guest: good morning. caller: yeah. mr. ben jealous has his talking points. he's got a script. host: what is your question? caller: talking about the koch brothers. in georgia, they will take you to get an id. the lady and the fire, she is alive. she can get an id. see how he skipped over the george soros billionaire with a left-wing. he's a left-wing. i don't believe you have him on here. host: that is glen from pennsylvania. do you want to respond? we could've -- go to bark -- we

could go to barbara in california. guest: george soros, charles koch, anybody writing big checks in the election, there should be transparency. it's a basic fact. i will point out ted cruz only challenged us to disclose our top five donors. he didn't challenge the other conservative groups. i asked the conservative groups to join me. they all declined. i doubt if they showed their first five donors, three would be below $1 million and a piece of the value of their house and their will. we are not a subsidiary the way mitch mcconnell has become for the koch brothers. barbara, california, democrat. -- host: barbara, california, democrat. caller: good morning. good morning, mr. jealous. it is an honor to speak with you. the democrats need to get rid of the filibuster. we are not getting nothing done. i'm really frustrated. these callers are calling about the left-wing.

all i can say, homie, is wow. cuckoo for cocoa puffs. i want the democrats to start fighting harder and let these people to know we need state elections to get rid of these people and get our people in there. host: ben jealous? guest: i will say one thing as an american. i'm worried we start typecasting each other as people. some of the colors today, really, you know, you can feel that sort of -- it's a little bit of venom or -- my uncle works in a lumberyard in northern new england. i'm pretty sure he voted for trump in 2016. most of my family -- i love him. most of my family voted for bernie or hilary. i love all of them, too. the reality is i thank god for c-span everyday.

it allows us to talk in a long format and not soundbites in a way that gets back to the old conversations before this time of social media and everything kind of being a zinger. i really appreciate that caller and i appreciate all the colors. we have a chance here, y'all, to come together as a country and it will be up to the people to do it. we started talking about senator manchin and some have lost hope. my faith is always in the people of this country. we agree on a lot. politicians want to pit us against each other all day long. we have a bill here. s1. it has passed the house. the for the people act. 83% of the american people support it. generally speaking, if you are rich and you want to have outside influence in our election, we better know who you are and what you are trying to do.

if you are a working person and want to vote, you are an american, it should be easy to vote. that is all the bill is about. i would encourage anybody who wants to know how mitch mcconnell operates in the koch brothers operate, look at the expose. it is shocking. those billionaires, at the end of the day, their faith is in using mitch mcconnell as a shield against the will of the people of the country. host: if returning to bipartisanship is the goal, is getting rid of the filibuster the answer? getting rid of the mechanism -- this new mechanism -- this mechanism that forces one party not to be able to move things on a party line unless they have more than 60 members in the senate? would it help bipartisanship to get rid of the filibuster? host -- guest: in this case, it would. the bipartisanship we are talking about is the american people coming together.

when you see bills that 83% of americans support being stopped by 40 senators, a minority of the u.s. senate, it does not make sense. we believe in majority rule. we believe in that in so many aspects of the government. like who becomes mayor, who becomes congressperson, who becomes senator. all of a sudden, in the u.s. senate they cannot operate by the rules that your city council does. we have a majority of votes, it passes. the new deal. franklin roosevelt's agenda, the core of his economic agenda would not have passed with the filibuster. key voting rights protections up to this day have been held back. if mitch mcconnell has shown he is ramming through judges, that is not sacred to him. he has shown in his hypocrisy around the supreme court that he has no principles. his only principle is power. honestly the power to run the government should belonged to -- should belong first and

foremost to the american people. 83 percent of us support a bill. how dare a minority of senators getting in the way -- get in the way of this bill being passed? host: norman, good morning. amherst massachusetts -- amherst, massachusetts. caller: i'm in the green party. mr. jealous, i agree with you on stopping the filibuster. it is patently unfair. i agree with most of the things you have set the right your career. but, i do have a big problem with hr-1. even though it does contain things that hopefully -- that help voting rights, it has a vicious crackdown against the green party and left-wing parties by increasing the amount of funds from $5,000 to $25,000. -- it also crackdown against the poor in several provisions.

i spoke with 1 -- i saw one that increases donations for the party committees from $5,000 to $100 million. there are three party committees so that is $300 million which , helps the idea of billionaires buying the election. guest: thank you. i will look into all of that. feel free to reach out to me. people for the american way. you can reach out on twitter. that is probably the easiest way. what i would say is no bill is perfect in the u.s. senate. every bill is a start. when you look at this bill, it's a good start. quite frankly, there was no way to improve it if we don't pass it. host: bob in stockton, california. republican. bob, good morning. just about five minutes left with ben jealous. caller: hello. can you hear me? guest: good morning, sir.

caller: i first want to say there is nothing wrong with our voting systems. you and your organization want to throw everything upside down and tear it up. i will tell you what. the constitution and our forefathers are much smarter than you. they said the legislature shall have jurisdiction on goes down. and you know what? you can't help stupid. i don't feel sorry for people who don't go down and get an identification. your organization is for the american way. i think it is for the illegal person's way to vote. they don't have a right to vote in this country until they are an american citizen. our constitution is to protect the american citizens. the united states of america. not the federalists of america. this is not a federalist country. it is a united states country. that is why legislatures have jurisdiction.

host: mr. jealous. guest: my childhood was flipped between northern california and west baltimore. i spent a lot of time in stockton. it's a beautiful place. what i would say, sir, is california is very different than virginia. california's history and virginias are very different. virginia, georgia. i have had folks in poverty for generations. black-and-white. and it is easy to find full to our 80, 90 years old. my grandmother is about to turn 100 and five in november -- 105 in november that have serious issues getting documents because they did not need their birth certificate when they were 30 years old and the court house burned down. and they -- the records were lost. and they eventually lost their driver's license, their id they were using. they went back and were told we

passed a voting law and 2010 or -- in 2010 or 2012. now you have to have an original copy of your birth certificate to get this id. they are flummoxed. they are americans and they voted in every election or every election they have been allowed since the voting rights act. they can't -- i sat with these folks. i know you don't see many in stockton but they are easy to find out here on the east coast. again, our voting laws have to work for all of us. and the reality is, there is a lot of great things about the u.s. constitution. the u.s. constitution also made it possible for states at that time to bar women from voting, bar black folks from voting, and bar white men who did not own land from voting. none of that was right. we have all benefited from the evolution of our protections of our rights as americans in our elections. that is what we are doing now.

now, it is clear that the gap has become so massive that we -- the gap between the haves and the have-nots have become so massive. we have billionaires trying to buy elections. all need to be held to a high level of transparency and that is what this bill would do. host: last call. cornell from new jersey, democrats. can you make it quick? caller: i will make a quick. they keep talking about the voter id. i see bigger problems such as, why is it that only in democratic precincts people are waiting hours in line to vote? 6, 7, 8 hours to vote. why is it that they have closed a lot of polling places? it is up -- if it is only voter id, why did they come up with over 300 new voting bills -- definitely trying to make it harder for people to vote.

the fact of the matter is it is stuff like in the last election. there was a massive amount of people voting because with the pandemic it was easier for people to vote when they mailed it in. that is what you had such an enormous turnout. the problem is, when people vote, republicans can't win. the filibuster should be demolished because nothing is getting done. host: that is cornell in you jersey. mr. jealous, giving you the final minute. guest: absolutely right. this is about making it harder for people to vote in every way. we probably spoke a bit too much about voter id but we have not gotten into the fact that they have been pulling away polling places. forcing people to walk to vote. all sorts of things. they are simply trying to make it harder to vote. while i do, frankly believe a , lot of statewide elections -- and presidential elections --

this voter suppression is about suppressing the vote. for one party, demographic changes are not in their favor. i would like to point out that there is another option. they can seek to appeal to more black folks, more working women, to more brown folks. that would moderate politics. i am all for a two-party system or multiparty system. all four parties have to compete for their vote of every voter. we should not allow people to bend the rules when they can't win. we should instead require them to kind of bend and year and listen to the people of this country and figure out how they actually earn their votes. that is what the for the people act is about. stop buying elections. make it easier for working people of all colors to vote. host: ben jealous, president for people for the american way. pfaw.org. come back and talk to us again.

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