reason editor matt welch reviews his article on pandemic related policies. you can join the conversation with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages and tweets. washington journal is next. host: good morning and welcome to washington journal. millions of americans have been vaccinated against covid-19, but millions more have decided not to get the shot, all this as the deadly disease shut down most of the country. as the u.s. begins to buy doses to donate to the rest of the world, there has been an effort to get as many americans vaccinated as possible, as schools, businesses and entertainment venues begin to reopen. our question is for our unvaccinated viewers only.

tell us why. regional lines for this conversation. that means that if you are in the eastern or central time zones, your number will be (202) 748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, unvaccinated viewers only, we want to hear from you at (202) 748-8001. keep in mind, you can text us at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media. on twitter @cspanwj and on facebook.com/c-span. we will began. the u.s. has been ramping up efforts to get more people vaccinated against covid-19 but the numbers seem to be slowing down in the u.s. let's look at the current numbers from the cdc on the numbers of americans who have been vaccinated. right now, according to the cdc covid data tracker, there are

more than 100 42 million americans who have been fully vaccinated against covid-19, but 172 million have gotten at least one dose. that means that there are only 42.8% of americans that are fully vaccinated against covid-19. now, fox news has a story this morning that talks about why people are not getting vaccinated, and i will bring a little bit of that to you this morning. once again, this is from fox.com. it is the most important question in america -- why aren't people getting vaccinated? the vaccine campaign has collapsed from previous highs. while at one point in mid april more than 3 million people received a shot each day, now only around 1.2 million are,

less than half of what it was at the peak. the u.s. might not make president biden's goal to vaccinate 70% of adults by july 4. at current rates, roughly 175 million adults will get their first shots by independence day, falling short of the nearly 180 million needed. we are going to bring to you dr. anthony fauci, who discussed the importance of full vaccination due to a growth of eight delta variant -- of a delta variant of the virus. here's a portion from dr. fauci. c-span.org [video clip] >> one is boosting against the original type for which the person was vaccinated and the other is a variant specific boost. we are noticing both but the

other thing we are noticing that is important is the higher degree against the immune response against the wild type, the greater coverage you have against the wide array of variants, which is the reason why, as we have reported in previous briefings, that when you look at the double doses of the mrna vaccines, which we have the most data, there is rather good protection that spills over against multiple variants, so you can boost against the wild type and still cover variants, including 617. host: let's get to our phone lines and see what some of you think about why you are not getting the vaccine. let's start with robert, calling from hazzard, kentucky. good morning. caller: good morning to you.

i would like to thank c-span for answering the phone. i have been on the air with greta, all you guys. and jesse. i appreciate speaking with you this morning on the air. i am unvaccinated. we hear in kentucky think where maybe something could be brewing up, where people have taken the vaccine, if a new covid comes out, we would not be protected if we took the first shot. that is confusing. i would like to comment about president biden, if i may for second. he is doing a second rate job. i would appreciate if callers would say things about mr. trump and biden. they have both been our president. both commander-in-chief.

let's: and put the -- let's do this together and beat this. host:vox has six reasons why americans have decided not to give vaccinated. the first reason we have -- they find that covid was not seen as a threat. the third were vaccine side effects. another reason was a lack of trust in vaccines. finally, they found a variety of conspiracy theories for why americans said they were not getting vaccinated. again -- what is your reason why you have not gotten the vaccine? let's go to tom, calling from baltimore, maryland. good morning.

caller: i am a disabled veteran. i was looking to get my shot from the v.a. the first contact i got was in january. they said they were going to contact people 65 and older. there was never any contact. in march, a text message went out saying they would give out the shot saturdays and sundays from 10:00 in the morning until 2:00 in the afternoon. there was a severe thunderstorm -- snowstorm coming sunday, and it was the super bowl, so everyone came saturday. they had to cancel everything. subsequently, and now also, by the way, that was for anyone of any age.

they snafu'd on the saturday and sunday of the super bowl. subsequent notes i have gotten from them. the last notes i have got from them say turn to the state of maryland for your vaccination. they dropped the ball completely. host: there are several drugstores, other places, now offering the vaccine shot. have you been able to see if you can get your shot from many of those? caller: i need someone to come and get me to take me to those places. i still have to go to the doctor from time to time for a bad hip. i wear myself out asking people to take me places. if i really need someone to take me somewhere, they won't. host: has the v.a. gotten back to you? caller: not really.

they send notices. the final notice was in june. it's a contact the state of maryland to get the shot. they dropped the ball completely at the v.a.. host: let's go to janet, calling from san diego, california. good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to say i don't trust a thing out of dr. fauci's mouth. he has flip-flopped too many times. i consider him to be an overpaid aquatic. -- overpaid quack. and i will not get the vaccine because it doesn't even guarantee you will not get the virus. when i got my mmr shot as a kid, i didn't get any of those diseases, and the way they are trying to force people to give vaccinated, i find that suspicious and sinister. there is something more to this. host: you are saying they are trying to force people.

what do you mean? caller: with the no flying, making people get passports, threatening to fire people from their jobs. that isn't america. we have the right to choose. they are taking away our right to choose. they are putting incentives everywhere you go. $1 million if you enter into a drawing. grocery stores. if you prove you have been vaccinated. i don't trust it and it is not even fda approved. host: if i'm not mistaken, you said earlier that, as a child, you got the measles, mumps and rubella vaccine. do you normally get the flu shot and other shots like that every year, or just this vaccine? caller: i don't get the flu shot either because everyone i know who has received it got the flu,

so what's the purpose? it is the same with this vaccine. there is no guarantee you will not get the virus. there is no purpose. and it is over 98% -- there's, you know, where you will be able to survive. nobody said you will die from it. it is not 100% that you will die if you get the virus anymore. you are more likely to recover than you are to die, so why are they pushing it so hard? i don't trust it and i will never believe another word out of fake's -- fake fauci's mouth ever. host: karl in new york, good morning. carl, hello? caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i haven't gotten the vaccine. i had covid-19 over a year ago,

and i am fine now, and so i don't see any reason to get the vaccine. my antibodies could be -- as anyone who has taken the vaccine. host: did your doctor tell you that once you have had covid-19, you don't need a vaccination, or is that something you came up with? caller: that something that i got from news organizations, certain ones. [indiscernible] saying that if you have the disease, you have antibodies, and that the vaccine is certainly not going to help.

host: carl, do you get other vaccines as well. -- as well? do you get the flu vaccine, or is it distressed -- or is it just this one you have decided not to get? caller: the reason i am not is because what i have heard is that it is not necessary. the only vaccine i have had, i was a child. host: carl, also, tell us about your experience when you got covid-19. did you end up having to go to the hospital? was it just like a bad cold? what was your experience when you had covid-19? caller: my experience is the following. with my mom and brother, people

came and helped us. and one morning [indiscernible] had the infection. in less than an hour, for my stepbrother and stepfather, it took them to be infected. for myself and my brother, hardly affected us at all. [indiscernible] it was a year ago. and what i am hearing is that if you have had covid, you have antibodies. you don't need to get the vaccine. host: forbes has a story that talks about a kaiser family foundation poll talking about the populations in the u.s. that have not gotten a vaccine.

i will read some key facts from this to you. the kaiser family foundation poll conducted may 18 through 25 found that the highest share of unvaccinated respondents were 40 -- were 30 to 49, followed by 29% from 18 to 29 and 20% from 50 to 64, while only 9% of those unvaccinated were 65 and older. nearly half of unvaccinated respondents were republicans, versus 29% democrats, as opposed to 31% of vaccinated respondents who identified as republicans and 59% democrats. both vaccinated and unvaccinated respondents were disproportionately likely to be white. 50% -- 56% unvaccinated versus 64 percent vaccinated based in the suburbs, 56% to 52% with

health insurance -- in the suburbs, and 76% to 88% having health insurance. let's go to donald. good morning. caller: good morning. it is good to see you. host: i am not pedro, donald, but keep going. caller: that's right. my bed. -- my bad. anyway, no, i have not gotten my shot. i have been advised not to. i have had a blood clot in disorder, so i will probably not do that. i think i may have had covid when it first started last year but never confirmed it, so not very sure, and i am kind of worried about fauci and whatnot.

it seems that when his mouth is moving, he seems to be lying a lot and his emails coming out kind of contradicts things he have said and even stuff he has come and tried to reexplain because we don't know everything on any given day, but still, i don't know. something about him. and the fda, it concerns me how they kind of pushed certain vaccines and blocked a lot of types of pills i have seen that were also having apparently a good effect and they claim there is no medical value in cannabis, so -- host: you said you are not taking the vaccine because you have a blood plotting issue. -- blood clotting issue. did you ask your doctor? caller: i have not. i have only read and seen about

it. i take some anticoagulants, or however you pronounce that, so -- no, i haven't. is there news out there now that people with a blood clot in disorder are ok to take these vaccines now? host: i don't know. i am just wondering where you got that information from, donald. do you see yourself ever taking this vaccine? say there is information that it does not affect people with blood clotting issues. do you see yourself ever deciding to take this vaccine? caller: you know, at this point, to be honest, no. i just don't. one of the reasons is so many -- you know, knowing the unknown is one thing, but to promote the unknown like you know what you are talking about makes me leery. and i appreciate c-span because sometimes i get bored and i

watch all your guys's stuff, not just getting up early for this show. i watched the fda stuff. i watched them go back and forth between the two of them, the vaccine, which ones worked, the money, and all this different stuff they argue about, and like i said, there are so many things, including veterans and medical cannabis -- in the last thing i read was over 70% of americans believe medical cannabis has value, and the fda still says they don't see any medical value in a plant provided by god that i have personally witnessed, not just her myself, my -- not just through myself, but many died

through suicide every day and pain and all kinds of stuff. can a missed -- cannabis might have something to do with helping people with this in some form. host: stewarts in madison, maine, good morning. caller: good morning. the only thing i can see in this is the first 100 million were already in line when joe biden took office, so he got the first 100 million in there without even advertising it. then it started to slow down and they went down to the 18-24-year-old people, to get them all -- i forget what the goal was bakhtin, the amount of people -- the goal was back then, the amount of people to be vaccinated -- and now there is a push for kids under 12 to

get biden over his threshold of 70% of the u.s. being vaccinated. to me, it just seems like it is a game for the politicians. they want to make our president look good by putting the 70% goal over the threshold. i am not going to get vaccinated. personally, i think it is between the media and the politicians. host: now, stuart, do you take any other vaccines, or is this the only one that you are not going to take it? caller: i have not been vaccinated with any vaccine -- anything -- since i was a child. i have never really gotten sick. i have lung cancer and degenerative heart failure and i travel back and forth from maine and massachusetts to visit my family. you have to wear a mask on the

buses, on the subways, on the trains. as soon as you are on the buses, the masts come off. it is ridiculous. host: is there anything anyone could say to you to convince you to take this vaccine? caller: not at all. i have lived a very good life, and of god intended me to go with the -- if god intended me to go with the covid, i will, but i think it is all politics. thank you. host: in an effort to get more people vaccinated in, wisconsin, former governors teamed up for a public service announcement. here's one they did. [video clip] >> what is up? >> how are you? >> i am ready to be done with this pandemic. >> i could not agree more. >> let's do a commercial together reminding the people of wisconsin how important it is to be vaccinated.

>> that might be the best idea you have ever had. >> i agree. >> sorry i am late but it looks like everyone agrees. it is time to get vaxxed, wisconsin. host: let's see what some of our social media followers are saying about the reason why they don't plan to get the coronavirus vaccine. here is one tweet that says i don't trust fauci, gates and zuckerberg. fauci should be arrested. another -- fauci and his collaborators in the media seem too eager to force these experimental vaccines on everyone. another tweet that says some people cannot get vaccinated for health conditions and current medications, but others who refuse just to refuse need to be banned from society.

a text that says i am homebound. i am hoping for a mobile vaccine program. here's another text that says "i am 78 with underlying conditions. i have heard that people like me have died from vaccines and have from covid. 7000 have died from vaccines." one last text that says "why is nobody addressing natural immunity? i have had covid and have been repeatedly exposed. why do i need the vaccine? what is the difference between vaccinated immunity and natural immunity?" for our unvaccinated viewers only, we are asking you to call in, we want to know your reason why. let's go back to the phone calls and talk to harry, calling from las vegas, nevada. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. viva las vegas. i am 70 years old next month. i don't do the flu shot.

i don't have a regular doctor. i am prescribed my own medicine over the internet. i do blood pressure medicine i prescribed for myself because doctors can't get it right. i don't believe this vaccine is actually a vaccine by definition. we are talking about some gene therapy here. we are talking about mra -- mrna. that is not what is happening here. they are dealing with gene therapy here. they are dealing with dna therapy here. i am not happy with that at all. at all. again, i am refusing to take it. i work in california in the refineries. i am a crate operator -- i am a crane operator by trade. they are talking about the new same guy. get him out of there. you will have to have this vaccine passport to work at all this.

the union is going along with it. i am not happy with the union over that. i would rather have the covid-19. i don't know anybody who has had it. i don't know anybody that knows anybody that has had it. as far as i am concerned, this whole covid-19 disaster is a joke. host: let's go to scott, calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. i didn't take the vaccine because i did have the covid, so my reasoning was i have natural immunity, so i try not to pay much attention to it. most of my friends, they also have natural immunity. my sister said she had it and some other people i know had it. host: tell us what you mean by natural immunity. you said you think you have natural immunity because you had covid. how do your friends have natural immunity? caller: they also had covid, a lot of them did.

they did a study back in april, ucla, and one of the counties in los angeles -- i think los angeles county, not los angeles -- one third of people already had immunity to this virus, had already picked it up somehow and recovered from it, didn't even know they had it. i got it really bad. i was down for 10 days, that my home, just taking -- days, at my home, just taking over-the-counter medicine. i had congestion, runny nose, fever, aches and pains. it took a couple months to get my strength back because i am 62. i am retired. but it also what me up to our health. we have to take care of our own selves. if we rely on someone else and think there is a magic pill or shot we can take to take care of our own bodies, we are making a mistake.

it is a mistake to do that. if we don't have natural immunity and keep ourselves healthy, then all this -- as the doctor used to say, will you take a flu shot? i will say no. i got the flu and i took it last year. he said it, they didn't have the right shot. it might be the one for you this time. i said no. covid-19 is about the worst flu i've had in my life, and i have had three others like this, at 14, 24 -- 201i think -- about 23, and then about 50, 51. host: has scott was talking about their, the -- talking about there, the issue of natural immunity, i want to talk

about a study out of the cleveland clinic in ohio. "a new study out of the cleveland clinic has found that people who have already had covid-19 may not necessarily benefit from vaccination. the research indicates that out of a large pool of health care workers, there were nearly zero cases of sars-cov-2 infection among those who had previously contracted the virus and were unvaccinated, previously contracted the virus and were vaccinated, and never contracted the virus and were vaccinated. there was a steady increase in cases among vaccinated -- among unvaccinated people who had previously contracted sars-cov-2. according to the researchers, the findings suggest that natural infection provides immunity similar to vaccination. therefore people who have not had covid can be prioritized for vaccination." this coming from healthlie.org, saying a new study says people

who have had covid 19 don't need to get vaccinated. let's get to our phone caller: how are you doing? i was listening to the caller saying the reason why they will not take the shot. it is preventative maintenance. when they take their car to get fixed, they take their animals to the vet, but they won't do maintenance on themselves. you lead the horse to the water, but you cannot make them drink it. i listen to all of the people on there saying they are doing this, but they take their cats, baboons, alligator, cow, but not themselves. i do not know what the matter is with them. you can take them to the water but you cannot make them drink that. host: have you been vaccinated?

caller: i have. host: from salt point, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. the main reason i did not -- hydroxychloroquine does not work and it does work, it has been confirmed but it is not out there that that much. i went for a physical and my doctor said the vaccine is not really for me because i eat right, i exercise, i take supplements. host: your doctor said that? because of your lifestyle, you do not need the vaccine? caller: well, because i take the correct supplements, like vitamin d, christine -- i exercise, i eat right, the government should make sure our food is improved and healthier. it is a wake-up call for americans to be healthy. if you are healthy, you do not have these concerns. host: is there anything i can

say to you to get your vaccine? caller: oh, never. they are it too much. host: and do you get vaccinated against anything else? caller: experimental. host: do you take other any vaccines? caller: when i was a child. host: so you have not been vaccinated against anything else since you were a child? caller: correct. host: ok, susan calling from ashland, maine. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? no, i am not taking the vaccine. i have come from house care background for 23 years and not a nurse, not a -- working for a health care company and have done extensive research on this.

and -- it basically is experimental. i have gone through all of the guidelines, the cdc, the hippo, all of these types of things and reading the cdc guidelines, the total general makeup of this has not been defined. so there is a certain percentage of this out there that basically is vaccine is not based on any total genome makeup and i think that doctors now are starting to realize, i am sitting here right now with about 2000 pages of data that they were able -- i was able to retrieve and there is new reporting out there on many of these aspects and the people are 100% right with frosting, all sorts of stuff that our -- frauding that these guys have been pulling up left and right.

very disappointing, this is emergency use only and they do that so that the other alternatives, they are right with hydro proctor corrigan -- hydroxychloroquine, others work. i think now, doctors are now starting to regard more about this. host: do you get vaccinated against anything else? caller: i have not taken -- actually, two years ago, i basically did not -- i did take the flu shot, interestingly, with two flu shots, one for the seniors and other people, i ended up taking the one for other people. i am 71 years old and i did, when this broke out, i was washing my hands, leaving the mail out and that i -- as i looked in to -- into, i did a

lot of work in the clinical trial aspect, documentation, so i started to look at it and i realized, this whole thing -- i hate to use the word clinical trial -- in europe, 20,000 people have died from this vaccine. in the united states, people are unfamiliar, when i brought it up to my doctor, they were -- i should not say unaware, but did not look at the system here. i have been following that, before they started putting that stuff down, i went through about 50 pages, it was the same type of thing. host: did it worry you that when they pulled things down, they are pulling it down because they say information is incorrect? caller: what i believe is

research each piece of it, but it was like clockwork, people got the vaccine, obviously a certain age groups, -- host: some information from the center for disease control, we have a couple of viewers who said that they thought that the vaccine was gene therapy, changes genes, the cdc has information on their site that contradicts that and i want to bring that to you. the cdc says facts about the covid-19 mrna vaccines, first as they cannot give someone covid-19. mrna vaccines do not use the live virus that causes covid-19. second, they do not affect or interact with our dna in any way. mrna never enters -- enters the nucleus of the cell where the dna is kept.

according to the cdc, you are worried about the coronavirus vaccine affecting your genes, and never actually enters the place where the genes are kept in your body. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to sal from staten island, new york. good morning. caller: good morning, how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i would never take this vaccine. i have been following since the day president trump became president and they did everything possible to get them out of office. i believe this pandemic is a planned-demic and to have the outcome we have in this election, they use the pandemic to get away with complete voter fraud. host: who do you think planned it? caller: i'm sorry? host: who do you think planned it? caller: i'm not saying that the buyers does not exist.

you have to keep that the virus does not exist. the regular flu does not exist. this was a plan-demic to achieve and allow the democrats to cheat in the selection and on the election, the way they ran it where everything automatically went off at a certain time of the night and we end up with a joe biden that is president. host: is there anything the government can say to have you take the vaccine? caller: i would not shoot myself with a vaccine that will give me covid. host: i just read to you, this thing from the cdc saying that the vaccines do not have any active ingredients that will give you covet. you do not believe that the cdc is correct?

caller: 20,000 people have died from this vaccine because they got covid. i have kidney cancer, i have -- i have never taken any vaccines, i believe this whole virus does exist, ok, but they use it in a political way and the media has been blowing the wall with it. it has been media malpractice like ever since president trump became president, it has been media malpractice from day one, it is common sense and realistic. this was used to create voter fraud. host: tell yolanda from nightingale, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. i am not going to take the vaccine because i do not want to. it is my body, my choice. host: now, do you take other

vaccines or is this just the only one you do not trust? caller: i took a flu vaccine since i was a child and that is the only one i take, that is the only one i trust. host: is there anything that they can say to convince you to take this coronavirus vaccine? caller: absolutely not. i just saw on the news yesterday where it is giving people endocarditis, no thank you. i do have a comment. host: go ahead. caller: i have a comment. the man that said we take our pets to the vet, we dam sure do because they need to be protected against things as well. animals are human as well. my dog has the mentality of a four-year-old. host: that color was from north carolina. in north carolina earlier this

week, democratic governor roy cooper lost a lottery and tended to get more people vaccinated. here is what he said. >> it is your shot at a million, summer cash drawing. over the next three months of summer, -- four people will win $1 million each, simply for being north carolinians who got one vaccine in our state. north carolina he ends -- north carolinians 18 years or older who get vaccinated will be automatically entered. north carolinians from 12-17, if you got one shot, automatically entered into four drawings to pay $125,000 for college education at a school of their choice. regardless of who wins, -- a chance at $1 million for a college scholarship is pretty good motivation.

but even if you -- not drawn, the worst you will do is get a strong protection from the deadly virus. host: back to our social media followers and see what they think about the vaccine and why they are not getting vaccinated. here is one texan who says that many americans do not believe in vaccinations. there were never -- there was never much of an outbreak here. here another texan saying, when i was in the u.s. army in 1970, we were forced to take a flu vaccine and i got sick with the flu. i will never be forced to take any vaccine again. here is another texan saying, i am 73, no vaccine since 1950. never a flu shot. we'll never play that drug companies or politician's games. here's another texan saying, the lady who called has a good point. i will add a reason. too much emphasis on a new type

of shot. why? it can be easily used to control population growth and select demographic groups. the government uses it in other ways, -- discrimination in government spending. forced vaccinations bending using endo-genetic material has presented applications for the future. the north carolina government was just talking about incentives for people getting shot in north carolina by including a lottery. the economist has a story about other incentives that other nations and states are giving to get people shots. i will read a bit from the story to you. residents of washington state in the northwest corner of the united states are now eligible for a free joint at they get vaccinated for covid-19. the state governments liquor and cannabis board announced on june

7 that it will launch a joint for job -- jab where -- jab where they will provide a minute -- marijuana cigarette to those who get the vaccine. it is the most humorous of a fast-growing list of state-sponsored incentives to nudge americans into getting it. in may, the governor of ohio launched a program that enters vaccine recipients into a lottery for $1 million. many other countries are resorting to -- whole cows in thailand. a lot of states and countries are looking at incentives to get people to get a covid-19 vaccine. we want to know from our unvaccinated viewers there reason why for not getting one. let's talk to joel from belleville, illinois. good morning. caller: hey, good morning, thank

you for taking the call. what the government can tell me to convince me to take the vaccine is now, the vaccine is fully licensed. i'm wondering what is preventing these vaccines, pass for emergency use, prevent it getting fully licensed. host: what do you mean by fully licensed? do you mean that the companies could be sued for malpractice once the license -- caller: from what i understand, the vaccines are approved for emergency use, am i correct there? ok, i understand there is another category saying fully licensed. which is from what i understand, a move beyond approval for emergency use and becoming fully licensed, meaning safer or -- i

mean, do i have a misunderstanding there? host: do you think that you would take the vaccine if it becomes fully licensed? caller: probably. i feel a bit safe, a bit better about it. i understand that emergency use for the greater good, most people are not going to have an issue that, let me living alone, i really can't afford to be down for a week feeling ill or from what i understand, some of the vaccines have different effects on different people. me living alone, i am relatively safe, i am working, but i do wear a mask at work, i try to maintain social distancing. i wash my hands early and i would rather take that route

then to be vaccinated with a vaccine that is approved for emergency use at this time. host: let's go to linda from ocala, florida. in morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: ok. i do not understand why these people are having a hard time taking -- understanding this flu shot. if you are -- have underlying medical conditions, it helps you. i have an underlying, medical condition which is a lung condition. i make sure that i have both of my shots. host: i want to remind everyone, we are talking to unvaccinated viewers only. unvaccinated viewers only. remember, we are only talking to the unvaccinated viewers. let's talk to alan from manassas, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. number one, let me say, i am not

going along with these conspiracy theories. my reasons for not being vaccinated is simply that i do not think that there has been sufficient studies on this, that there are things that can show up later -- there is just no way to know what is going to show up in a year or two. and i have just made the decision to be careful. i am 83, almost 84 years old. i do not have any underlying medical conditions. i do still at work and deal with people. but i tried to be careful and i have just made the judgment that at least at this point, i am not going to take the vaccine. i want to see how it plays out. the conspiracy theories and so

forth, i think this is being done in good faith am a but i see no reason to rush to it. i am also going to go ahead and see whether perchance i had covid and may have been ace in the medic and it -- asymptomatic and if i have the antibody and that will play in my decision. host: let's look at that states that have had the highest and the lowest vaccination rates in the united states. so, right now in the top 5, states with the highest vaccination rates, we have vermont, hawaii, massachusetts, connecticut, and maine. now, the second group is rhode island, new jersey, new hampshire, and pennsylvania and new mexico. now, the states with the lowest vaccination rates, at number 1,

mississippi, followed by louisiana, alabama, wyoming, and idaho. let's look at some information, we were talking earlier about whether the process for emergency use for the vaccine and what the fda is saying, i want to read to you a bit from nbc chicago about the process that the coronavirus vaccine is going through. so, the story says, currently, no coronavirus vaccine is fully approved by the u.s. food and drug administration, but they were given emergency use authorization by the agencies. they include vaccines from pfizer, biontech, moderna, and johnson & johnson. emergency use authorization allows vaccines to become available prior to full approval in the case of public health emergencies. the fda can revoke the emergency

use authorization at any time. quote, the vaccines met fda's rigorous scientific standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality needed to support emergency use authorization. incentives for disease control and prevention states on its website. that is where we are right now, we are under the emergency use authorization from the fda. let's talk to freddie calling from burlington, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i am not going to take the vaccine and the kids under 18, they should not be taking it neither because in israel, it is causing heart problems with the children. host: let's go to amy calling from richmond, virginia. good morning. caller: yes, hello.

well, i have not been vaccinated and i am not sure if i will be. i had covid-19 in november of 2020. and, you know, the cdc says -- i do not like to blanket everybody to get vaccinated. if you have it, you are immune to it and they have daddy -- done studies in israel and the nih -- the one in israel said that people have contracted sars, like 17 years ago, the other sars virus. they are still immune to it 17 years later. so, i am thinking, this immunity may last a long time. they really do not know. they say if you have it, you only need one shot of the moderna or pfizer. and you are way, way over the top with your immunity. they say if you get -- if you

had to, you get one shot, you're way better off than someone who has never had it and they get two shots. so i'm thinking, well, they may soon say you may not needed at all. i am waiting for the research. host: earlier in the show, we had a couple of colors bring up the never -- callers bring up the number of people they thought that died from the covid-19 vaccine. the cdc address at this on the website and i want to bring you the information that the cdc says about death from the coronavirus vaccine. more than 302 million doses of the covid-19 vaccines were administrated in the united states from december 14, 2020 through june 7, 2021. during this time, v.a. erf received 500-2000 -- 5208 reports which is .0017% of

people who received the vaccine. the fda requires health care providers to report any deaths after vaccination. the v.a. erf even if it is unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. a review of available clinical information, including death certificates, autopsies, and medical records had not established a casual link to a coven acting vaccines. however, recent reports negate a plausible, casual relationship between the j&j vaccine and tps, a rare advent -- a rare event, low platelets, which causes death. it is from the cdc website. they say the number of people who have died after getting a coronavirus vaccine is a loader -- a little over 5000. they have yet to find a cause, connection to the coronavirus vaccine. let's go back to our phone lines

and talk to sidney, calling from greenville, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning, sir. i did want to comment that i was very slow and reluctant to get the vaccine. i have not had the vaccine. at the time, i decided to get it is when i got sick. thankfully, it was a mild case, it did not feel mild. host: we are only talking to people who have been unvaccinated this morning. if you have gotten any of your vaccinated child, wait until another time if you want to talk about it. let's talk to michael, calling from flint, michigan. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. longtime watcher, frequent color. -- caller. i have not been vaccinated. last year around the same time last year, i contracted covid.

i was sick for about a month and a half and had long covid symptoms for an extra seven months after that. now, there is so much misinformation being put out there and some ridiculous ones and some that are reasonable. me personally, i have not been vaccinated because since i had covid, there is this idea or the information that i built up anti-bodies and then the quote unquote paranoid side saying get it anyway because safer is better, right? but then you hear about the covid deaths and whatnot and it is a little jarring, so, it is hard to tell because there is a lot of different information

coming from every which direction, you know, from the news to people on the streets everywhere and it is hard to determine what is what. host: president biden came out last week and he talked a little about the government's push to get everyone vaccinated. here is what president biden said. [video clip] >> we were elected to be president and vice president for all americans. i do not want to see the country that is already too divided become divided in a new way, between places where people live free from fear of covid and places where people when the fall arrives, death and severe illness returns. vaccine is free, it is safe, and it is effective. getting this vaccine is not a partisan act. the science was done under democratic and republican administration and the first vaccines were authorized under a

republican president and widely developed by a democratic president, deployed by a democratic president. all over the world, people are desperate to get a shot. that everyone can get at the neighborhood drugstore, at no cost with no weight. every american over 12 years of age, no matter where you live, what you believe, who you voted for has the right to get vaccinated. it is your choice. so, please, exercise your freedom. live without beer. we need to be one america, united, free from dearness -- f fearfulness. caller: there are too many unanswered questions and i think when you were reading one of the statements, you said you were talking -- at the bottom, it

said promoted. promoted, what does that mean? host: no statement i read said promoted. caller: at the very bottom of the thing at the bottom it said promoted. there are too many unanswered questions, too many. fight and it out of office -- biden will be out of office. with what they put in the food gmo's, look what it is doing now. now they are taking it out. and why did militaries -- we know that america will use it as a weapon. host: coming up next, robert egge of the alzheimer's association will join us to talk about the newly approved alzheimer's drug and other updates on research and treatments of the disease. and later, editor at large matt

welsh discusses his piece looking at the impact of pandemic related politics and some of their unintended consequences. stick with us, we will be right back. >> black texans celebrated, many white texans responded to those celebrations with violence. because they celebrated the end of slavery. there are accounts of unleashing a torrent of violence on the freedmen. someone talk about coming to an area and finding almost 30 bodies of black people, men, women, and children hanging from trees, talks of bodies in the

river, and wants -- once whites lost control, a number of whites responded with extreme hostility. >> pulitzer prize-winning historian and -- annette read talks about juneteenth and shares her stories from growing up in texas during the 60's and 70's. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span's q&a. you can also listen to q&a as a podcast where you got your podcast. -- get your podcasts. >> this carpenter was a high profile aide to lyndon johnson and his wife. she was born in texas in 1920. came to washington in 1942 as a reporter working for the --

after her white house years, she continued her career in d.c. as an activist, a political humorist and a public relations expert and on this expert -- episode of book notes one, our conversation with the late carpenter. subscribe where you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back with robert egge, chief public policy officer at the alzheimer's association and he is here with us this morning to talk about the latest in alzheimer's disease research and treatment. good morning. guest: good morning, good to be with you. host: for some of our viewers who might not know, can you describe for us what old-timers is -- alzheimer's is and what are the symptoms we should be looking for in our friends and family to see if that is possibly happening to them.

guest: sure. alzheimer's is a disease, it is one cause of what is called the match appeared if i can start there, you'll often hear about dementia. it is if someone has trouble cognitively remembering things and other associated issues. alzheimer's is a leading cause of dementia. about two thirds with dementia are caused by alzheimer's. alzheimer's is the leading cause and alzheimer's has certain biological issues going on in your brain and we may talk about them in terms of treatment later on, but the important point to realize is that alzheimer's is regressive and unfortunately, the reality is that is -- once you have alzheimer's, you either die with it or from it. and so, that is true of one third of seniors dying with alzheimer's.

it is a major disease and it is growing right now, over 6 million americans have alzheimer's and if there is not a change to it, as many as 30 million will have alzheimer's by the mid century. host: do we know what causes it? guest: well, we know several things, more and more everyday about it. about the causes. on the front of what we know, we know biologically, some conditions, some developments within the brain are hallmarks of the disease that we look for it to make a diagnosis. it gets pretty heavy into the science quickly, but to mention -- one of them is called beta analogues, protein that you clumped together in your brain, another one is called -- it can lead to -- and now we have the diagnostic tools to do so very

early, which is important and encouraging and other ways behind -- beyond imaging data. today, we can use spinal fluid and we are making great progress, so it is coming in the horizon, and pardon for blood tests. a lot of important blood test -- development. host: how is the impact of the coronavirus pandemic on alzheimer's patients? guest: it was devastating. the impact of coronavirus on those with alzheimer's and other dementia and one reason for that is it is an unfortunate reality that for many people, it turns out at some point to be appropriate to go earlier than they wanted and long-term care. as we all know, nursing homes have been especially hard-hit by

coronavirus, that led both to the danger -- we had a marked elevation of those with alzheimer's, who died in this last year and it also led to isolation, which is equally difficult for families to be separated from loved ones, both those with alzheimer's, dementia and in nursing homes as well and their loved ones who wanted to be with them, so we are pleased that dude to progress with vaccinations -- we are starting to see a marked change in families being reunited, which is wonderful. host: our viewers can take part in this conversation. we will open up regional lines, which means if you're in the eastern or central time zones, you can call in at (202) 748-8000. if you're in the mountains or pacific time zones, your number is going to be (202) 748-8001. we will open up a special line

for those who have experienced alzheimer's. are you a caretaker or do -- has a member of your family suffered from alzheimer's. it we want to hear from you this morning. that line is (202) 748-8002. keep in mind, you can always text at (202) 748-8003 and we are always reading on social media on twitter at c-span wj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. robert, is there any demographic trends we can see for people with alzheimer's? guest: yes. the most significant one is age. our population is aging as baby boomers are entering at a higher risk for alzheimer's. the highest risk is age, the older you get, the higher the risk and that is the place to

start in terms of demographics and that is why fundamentally, when i say we are in a large -- heading for 30 million, more than a doubling, that is the primary factor. that is also right along that significance the fact that different immunities in our country are hit in different ways. everyone is touched by this, no one escapes it. for instance, black americans are twice as likely to develop alzheimer's as older whites in our country. and hispanics are 1.5 times more likely. so there are certainly many elements to the demographic story, all of those factors lead us to the fact that we have to address it. host: there are several pieces of legislation that have been put before congress. first of all, tell us what the act is before congress and how or if it will help. guest: it sure would.

thank you for asking that question. that act -- it focuses on equity in clinical trials. generally speaking, across-the-board, in clinical trial today, many populations are underrepresented, like those i mentioned. the african-american committee, that hispanic community are two examples, asian americans and others are underrepresented. that is a serious issue because we need to make sure that the treatments that we are developing work for everyone. and that everyone can be included in the benefits. we need to work hard because generally speaking, across-the-board, all of us would say we need to do better. that is true with alzheimer's and dementia. we are very thankful to champions in congress that we work with to introduce a bill called the and act act and what this does is creates the support

and funding and structure to address the issue, to make sure that we are having clinical trials, education, and trust in communities where we need fair representation that we can make sure that innovation and new treatments work well. host: let's have some of our viewers take part, we will start with bill calling from northbrook, illinois. good morning. caller: hi, good morning. i practice medicine, my medicine had -- here is my question. about two years ago, i read an article about a research project where they took i think as many as 70 alzheimer's brains i look at the areas of memory and they looked at the dna in those brains and they looked at the dna in people unaffected who had

died. i do not know the cause of death, but i think they died from it. but there was -- were two strange herpes virus in areas of the brain affected by alzheimer's, like 7.5, there was a herpes virus. i remember -- i never read anything more about this, but yet this was completely different than all of the amy lloyd -- amyloid talk and there was a question, is there any possibility that this is a viral illness and that was my question , if you heard anything more about anything like that? guest: that is a great question and i'm glad you asked it.

one of the great advantages of working with the alzheimer's association, we are seeing signs globally as nonprofit funders of alzheimer's is that we convene to answer questions like the ones you asked and we have done that at the science conference. it is one area that deserves an investigation among many others. one thing that is plausible has been the fact that funding for alzheimer's and dementia have been extremely low, compared to the burden of this disease in a country and around the world and i have to give compliments to congress on a bipartisan basis led by champions from both parties, they have dramatically increased alzheimer's research funding about sevenfold in recent years closer to where it needs to be in the great point about this is the example you raised and many others.

we have many promising angles to addressing alzheimer's and other causes of dementia and for so long, we were frustrated by not being able to pursue it in a way that we should. now, we are entering a point where we can start to be vigorous in pursuing all of these different avenues of research. and viral implications are one of those. i can say that is a great example of one of the areas we are now able to look into that is important. host: robert, since you brought it up, you said that congress has increased the funding sevenfold, that gets us closer to where we need to be. which means that it sounds like congress is not where it needs to be. if i'm not mistaken, congress has approved more than $3 billion for alzheimer's research. what should never be and why it is doing it? guest: -- and why isn't it doing it? guest: i have to say a huge

thank you to congress. they are fantastic partners. we do need to go further. the way we are answering that question -- they said we want the national institutes of health to tell us what funding is required and so, because of a law we work with congress to pass all the alzheimer's accountability act, now annually, scientists in the federal government answer that question for congress and tell them what is needed. for this coming year, the answer from nih in congress is another $300 million and that is what we are asking for and i think that is a question that needs to be evaluated annually based on the milestones we need to reach and what opportunities lie ahead. i do not think -- it is hard to imagine ever over investing in alzheimer's reading -- alzheimer's prevention research when you look at the toll this

disease takes on americans today and the cost of alzheimer's is enormous. host: we have a question from one of our social media followers who was looking at the numbers of alzheimer's in the united states and has this question. are there other countries that have less instances of alzheimer's and does lifestyle and diet matter? guest: we are convinced it does. how does and what we can say about it needs investigation. we are doing just that. there is a network of studies around the world that we are convening that say there are variations locally. that is a key piece of the puzzle telling us that we need to explain, we need to apply the insights and so one of the studies right here is in the united states. we are convening globally, in the u.s., we are going to sights

around the country, there is the pointer study testing different lifestyle factors about exercise, diet, and others to help us unlock these clues and it ties back to the and act act. one day we recognize is that to have the right answers on lifestyle, we have to make sure that every community in the country as represented and we worked hard and we are doing that and when we have answers, from this study in the coming years, we will act -- answer it for not just some parts of america, but for all america and this will be really important. i think we will find out very interesting things. host: as a part of that question, are the numbers for alzheimer's higher in america and they are in other countries around the globe? are they lower than in the u.s.? is it about the same? what is -- what are the numbers here? guest: it is a bit difficult to

say for me categorically. there are variations. one reason i say this is because surveillance is just counting people with alzheimer's is difficult and estimates need to be made and we need to do that in a consistent way. there are variations and sometimes, we see promising signs in some countries where it looks like what we have seen that the rate of increase in alzheimer's as knowing whether -- that is exciting. we recognize that could be because that country, say scandinavia, is very similar in their lifestyle and other factors that can explain that. we do see -- the biggest factor in explaining differences by geography however, is age. older populations, say in a country like japan, are facing

greater challenges right now because their population is older. we do see those variations at and in terms of factors like that, we can explain why. host: lets talk to victor calling from silver spring, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. my fiance, her mother was definitely -- had dementia. she would forget the name of her dog or she would ask a question and then maybe two minutes later asked the same question again. and she is telling me that she has watched biden on tv and he is doing the same thing her mother was doing when she was alive. could he have alzheimer's or dementia? guest: thank you for the question. we will never diagnose anyone.

from a distance or speculate about that. it would not be appropriate to do so. your question is a great opportunity to discuss a few things. one is, it goes back to the question, one of the warning signs of alzheimer's. i know you will see me forgetting a lot of things, but i always have, it is the way i have been. when that happens to me today, i am not alarmed by that, that have been to me 20 years ago. people need to look out for changes. if you never had trouble remembering names and all the sudden that becomes a challenge, that is something to talk to your health care provider about. and there are other examples like that where you are driving a familiar route and then you are unfamiliar. that is an example of what to look for, changes in yourself

and your loved one. when that happens, the right thing to do is go to your health care provider and talk about it. and that they seem to not want to pursue that conversation, whether it is you are a loved one, you should insist on it and make sure you have a serious conversation, it is important to detect alzheimer's early so you can put in place the best possible approach to it with your health care provider and when the development and treatment arises, it is more important. that is generally speaking what we would say is talk to your health care provider if you have any changes in what has been normal because you are concerned. host: is dementia only caused by alzheimer's or is it -- can it be caused by other reasons or are they always connected? guest: it can be caused by other factors. one day we learned is that sometimes these pockets of

dementia and i will just mention a few, you might have heard them, i mentioned the second largest, -- some people are familiar with a terrible disease called -- those are examples, it is important that these are considered separate. the second largest cause of dementia after alzheimer's are strokes, cardiovascular factors, cardiovascular disease leading to dementia and often as i mentioned, they can take place in the same person. such as presidents -- for instance -- host: donna calling from york, maine. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you.

my mother died at 92 with dementia and i do not know if it was from dementia. i know she had many strokes. my question is, one, what is the trend of genetic endowment. i am 73 and i do not want to. and two, are there therapies, we hear stuff being advertised for improving cognition and i wonder if any of those actually work. thank you. guest: right. so, a few parts there. earth of all, -- first of all, to confirm what you said, i do not wanted. -- want it. and it -- and understands why you said i do not want it.

nobody wants it. these diseases are terrible and we need to be addressing that aggressively and that is what we are doing with congress. that is the first point, i want to agree with you on that point, straightforward out as it is. due to genetics, we have learned quite about genetics, there is more to learn about some genes that increase your risk and that is something that is a factor and it could lead to promising areas for treatment. it is important for us to understand those different factors. for research purposes. and then in terms of lifestyle and there are many things that are proposed where we do not see the evidence that they work. but we do think it is very important to study these factors, as i mentioned earlier about lifestyle, it absolutely

merits investigation. that is what we are doing, that is what the nih is funding, and we need to pursue this so we can say with confidence, this works, do it, and perhaps, this does not, we do not see evidence for it. do not spend your energy on that. host: edward from cedar rapids, iowa. good morning. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i had a question earlier in the program, you had mentioned treatments, you are doing research on treatments using spinal fluid to treat alzheimer's. and i am kind of curious, how are you using -- maybe you can explain -- the spinal fluid buildup in the brain which caused dementia, so how are using one cause for dementia

because -- treating for another cause of dementia. can you explain? guest: i am glad that you called in because it gives me a chance to clarify what i said earlier. cerebral spinal fluid is one way to diagnose alzheimer's. specifically. and what they look for -- it is not a treatment, it is a diagnostic tool. another example of a diagnostic tool is what is called pet imaging. pet imaging, a brain scan. but they allow us to do is put -- look for the telltale signs of alzheimer's. not that many years ago, they could only do this after death with an autopsy, now you can do that early on in individuals when we need to. it is for care purposes. what we do is csf, we look for

beta-amyloid's and we are getting better information due to research in the position of the instruments and that is it. not a treatment but a diagnostic tool. host: let's go to austin, texas. did i say your name right? c-reactive --siri? caller: my husband shot himself after he found out he was going to get alzheimer's. what is the advantage of finding out? that you are going to get it? guest: i am so sorry to hear that. i really am -- i really am.

sorry about that. it is an advantage to hear about it. you raise a good point, we need support around this. the advantage of hearing about it we know is that you can start to -- being involved in those decisions and working with your family and health care provider about the years ahead and what a tragic story you told. it is also true that many with alzheimer's throughout the progression as terrible as it can be, i found memorable moments and can connect with loved ones and have deep moments. -- have found memorable moments. the other thing about your comment is it goes to show how we need hope and treatments in

how the fact we have been living for decades until just this week without any new treatments for a disease that affects so many people and is terminal, is something that we are so glad congress responded to recently, elevating funding, but the fact we have gone this long leaving so many people with so little hope, it is something we need to squarely face until we have options available that lead to not despair that led to this tragedy. host: our heart go out to her as well. a new drug, aduhelm was approved this week by the fda, which is the first new treatment in nearly 20 years. talk to us about this drug and tell us what it does. guest: alright.

i am happy to because this has been -- i mentioned hope. if i can put this in context. about this treatment. if you were to think back, all listeners, to when you can last remember a disease of this size and magnitude like alzheimer's, so like cancer or heart, diabetes, that first had a treatment approved, effective treatment to address the progression of the underlying disease, you have to think back quite a ways and many i have talked to recently this past week, you have to go back about 30 years to aids when they had an equivalent moment in the news and that is how big and unique this moment is. to have a first. we know with those other diseases, the first is never the destination. it is the start.

it is such an important start and in every case i mentioned, it has led to advances that follow from it from the first moment. so, this is an exciting moment in its own right that i will describe for you. but also because of the milestone it is, the new day it isto where we are now able to lk with hope where people going forward. this is a treatment that is not a cure. it is important to be clear what this is not. it is not a cure and based on the trial participants that were the basis for approval it is for only those, first of all, with alzheimer's not the other causes of dementia. and it has only been tested and we only have evidence of effectiveness in those in the

earliest stages of alzheimer's. in basic terms of early, mid and late, this was tested in very early population. in that population there was convincing evidence of its effectiveness in slowing the decline due to alzheimer's in terms of function and cognition and thinking by 22%, which is a major difference. when we talk to those in the fda spoke to those we brought patients, those who have to live through it, and asked them what does this treatment mean? the results, i mean, the feedback has been overwhelming. to have months maybe even years when you still living the life and the way you want to live it and be able to be at a wedding or with your grandkids, hold the

baby, whatever it may be, those are priceless moments and that is something we did not have a way to hope for in terms of treatment. it has been a big development. even as we know there is so much more in terms of treatment we need to do, for all the stages of this disease and all the different types of dementia. host: that approval did not come without controversy. i want to read some paragraphs from statnews.com. the fda granted marketing clearance to the drug over the strong objections of a panel of independent experts convened in november. those advisors reviewed bio jen's data and concluded that there was insufficient evidence of the treatment had significant benefits for patients. they argued the drug should not be approved as have many outside experts. others saw enough evidence of

efficacy -- and a desperate need for new treatment. instead of judging biogen's treatment on cognition the fda granted conditional approval based on the ability to clear the toxic proteins. biogen will need to conduct more trials. the fda does have the authority to rescind approval. it has been so controversial that three panel members resigned over the approval. there does not seem to be consensus this is a good thing. guest: that's true there has been controversy about this. we are convinced, and i applaud the fda for the decision they reached, but we said from the beginning as we advocated based on the science, which we see closer than anyone -- i can

confidently say our medical science team had a pulse on regulatory and commercial science. we looked at the whole thing deeply as did many other researchers and the really well-qualified scientists at the fda itself. we found the evidence as they did compelling. not to say there aren't different views on this and in our recommendation to approve aduhelm based on science, which is compelling and clear, we also recommend it what they concluded to do which is have a trial. which is a good idea. we are very glad that is in the push as well. based on what we learn it is appropriate the fda have the authority to take steps on this treatment. the overwhelming point i think is just to think about where we stand today.

you have heard about, just from a few callers, what this disease is like. to be at the first moment where we have that compelling evidence at the right dosage in terms of this treatment -- what we have seen definitively in the trials absolutely indicate approval was the right thing to do. we respect the fact there are scientists who have different opinions, that is healthy. there should be a bigger debate at all times. but the fda rightly concluded at some point it is time to make decisions and they made the right one. host: let's go back to the phone lines and talk to betty calling from riverside, connecticut. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. good morning, everyone. i want to make three quick points. number one, there was a thing where you could sign up for awakening to alzheimer's.

i got it in my email and then you could listen to all of these programs for 12 or 13 days. i did that and then there was another natural pathic doctor and he did a similar thing. it was all about that some people that were maybe in the beginning stages of alzheimer's or had a predisposition, they thought they might get the alzheimer's, and through diet and supplements some people actually said they were able to reverse their early symptoms of alzheimer's. second, i also heard somewhere -- not allowed -- but were entitled to have a cognitive test? i'm not good at pronouncing it

but you know what i mean. to see if we have any leading indicators we might be predisposed or whatever you want to call it to alzheimer's. number three, because i used to be betty from virginia but connecticut is my home state and i moved back here -- but real quick, i had a senior companion volunteer program and i did it in the building i lived. i had one client in particular and she had alzheimer's but she was always a whiz on scrabble. we were mostly there to be a companion. it was perfectly ok for me to just play the game with her. we played every time i went there and i went there four days a week. once in a blue moon i might have beat her and she is now in a home for memory and all that.

but she was such a whiz. i mean, such a whiz on scrabble. she might not remember one thing from one minute to the next but boy, when it came to scrabble she could have been -- they had those champions. host: go ahead and respond, robert. guest: that last point is sad to hear but good to hear about personalities and moments like that. that's true. one of the mysteries of alzheimer's and other dementias is how the progress differently in different people. but the tragic consequence is how it unfolds. it is unique from person-to-person. we often hear stories like that. we are having a better opportunity to explain but it is so interesting. your middle point is what i want to focus on. we discussed earlier -- i urge

everyone to talk to your health care provider. be skeptical of some of the things that will be pitched to you especially if you are asked to spend money. call if you have questions the 800 number, 1-800-277 -- and they have no agenda and nothing to sell. take advantage of that if you hear something that sounds too good to be true. your health care provider will guide you through those decisions. your middle point of the three i want to focus on with a few more comments. absolutely. if you have any of the warning signs i described earlier, whether it is yourself or a loved one, get health care provider. they can do cognitive testing.

they just do further assessment and discussion with you. if warranted, especially with the treatment opportunities prescribed soon that may be appropriate for some, then they will look -- cerebral spinal fluid might be important or imaging. but the last thing i want to mention is that congress advocated for center for medicaid and medicare services. they put in place several years ago a care planning benefit available through medicare fee for service. or you can go to your health care provider and it allows for a comprehensive planning session to be repeated, to go through where you and your loved ones are with alzheimer's and put in

place the right kinds of evaluation options and support you need to navigate this journey as well as you can. always difficult but it sure makes a difference. i hope everyone will take advantage of the availability to pursue diagnosis. may be you will hear that you don't have this which would be wonderful, but if you do, take advantage of the planning. we are also working with congress on a bipartisan bill. dementia care today is not where it needs to be. anybody who has dealt with this disease knows that. despite well-intentioned and smart health care providers the system does not deliver the necessary care. this bill is aimed at doing exactly that. comprehensive care for alzheimer's act, run to your member of congress and ask for support on this bill. host: let's talk to paulette talking from massachusetts. caller: good morning.

i wanted to say my mom passed away from dementia two years ago and i am very encouraged for the fact that you are making progress. but there is a difference between dementia and alzheimer's. also, it seems like all the news people have a really hard time pronouncing alzheimer's. they always say alzheimer with a t. could we fix that? thank you. guest: i'm not sure if there is a real solution to that. as we talk about it more as a country it will become more familiar and there are variations, either regionally or traditionally pronounced. good for you to bring up the distinction between dementia, which is a description of symptoms in general, and the

fact there are many different types of dementia, alzheimer's being the most important among several. host: let's talk to norma calling from south carolina. good morning. caller: hi. i have been looking at alzheimer's. my mother's family has a history of alzheimer's so i am older. i have been taking these things but i was going to a neurologist. you cannot find neurologists. you just can't find a neurologist and they act like it is nothing to get an m.r.i.. you have to have prior approval and all kinds of stuff. host: go ahead and respond. guest: so, i agree with the caller in the sense it is not literally true that you can't find a neurologist, but

depending on where you live -- we referred to this as neurology deserts. it is impractical for many people in our country to get to a neurologist. but there are fantastic neurologists around the country just not enough of them. the place to start is with your health care provider, your doctor, who can help you make connections if needed if appropriate. for many it is very appropriate to that advanced care from a neurologist or others who are more familiar with how to best support somebody with alzheimer's or other cognitive dementia. host: we would like to thank robert egge who is the chief public policy officer for the alzheimer's association for being with us today. i remind you the help line is 1 -800-272-3900. thank you for being us with this this morning. guest: thank you.

host: we take more of your phone calls as we go to the open forum. you can see the numbers on the screen. we will be right back with your calls. stick with us. ♪ announcer: monday night on the communicators, roundtable discussion on telecom issues and potential regulation affecting social media, antitrust and big tech. >> we have politicians from both sides of the aisle that sort of what the same thing. they want more regulation on tech companies but coming at it from different angles and that is where we are seeing what you mentioned, this piecemeal approach where they clearly want something but can't seem to agree on what. >> the democrats have control of the house, senate and white house and they have made it clear part of their agenda will be criticizing and potentially pursuing reforms that would affect the major social media

companies. the only issue is they cannot come to a cohesive reform agenda. it is piecemeal at this point. >> the fear of antitrust action from the federal government for tech companies is they will either be forced to be broken up into pieces to divest the company and that they would possibly have to fundamentally change the way they do business. announcer: monday night at 8:00 p.m. eastern, regulating social media and big tech on the communicators on c-span2. announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we are in our open forum segment of the show. that means you can call in and talk about the issues that are important to you. you can see the numbers on the screen. republicans (202)-748-8001, democrats (202)-748-8002,

independents (202)-748-8002. you can also text us at (202)-748-8003 and we are always reading on social media on twitter @c-spanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. on friday attorney general merrick garland announced several actions to support and protect voting rights in the united states. here's a quick peek at what he said. [video clip] >> today i am announcing within the next 30 days we will double the division's enforcement staff for protecting the right to vote. we will use all existing provisions of the voting rights act, the national voter registration act, the help america vote act, and the uniform and overseas citizens absentee voting act to ensure that we protect every qualified

american seeking to participate in our democracy. we are scrutinizing new laws that seek to curb voter access and where we see violations we will not hesitate to act. we are also scrutinizing current laws and practices in order to determine whether they discriminate against black voters and other voters of color. particularly concerning our several studies showing in some jurisdictions nonwhite voters must wait in line substantially longer than white voters to cast their ballots. host: we are in the open forum. we want to know what you want to talk about. before that i want to bring up a tweet that has come from the white house with the white house saying they will not be having a joint news conference between president biden and vladimir putin.

instead president biden will have a conference on his own. there will be a working press section and a smaller session as well as a smaller session following the meeting. that is coming after the president biden and summit on wednesday. let's go to the phone lines and see what our viewers want to talk about. let's start with mary calling from fort myers, florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i am going to bring up a couple of subjects nobody seems to be talking about. the first one is the covid vaccine. people are criticizing it and such but what nobody seems to be noticing -- look at the over-the-counter drugs. have people ever read the

warnings on those things and all the abbreviations? i am a retired rn and i don't understand half of it. same thing with the commercials. there are literally hundreds of commercials for medications. tell your doctor this, tell your doctor that, and people don't have a problem with that but with the covid vaccine that they are criticizing it. you know, it doesn't seem logical. the second thing i really would like to point out is kind of disappointing because i like the entertainment industry. but they really need to re-examine what they are producing. everything seems to be violence, sadism and sex. i watch the old indy griffith shows because of the g writing.

we'll of fortune, g rating. i think that is a bad affect on our society and i'm not conservative, i'm a moderate liberal, but it just makes sense. when you constantly see that, that becomes the norm. host: let's go to james calling from pineville, louisiana on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to say some things some people don't want to comment on. what happened on january 6 was the work of traitors. it is not much different from the civil war and these people would rather believe the lie that the truth and call themselves christian. i don't think all of these people -- i think it is what is inside of them, you know?

they have the same mindset as trump and a lot of that is pure racist, which people don't want to say, but that is the way i feel about it. host: let's go to bill calling from new jersey on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you, sir. by the way, to the last caller president trump is a good man who helped everybody of every race. but my point is this, parents across our country are speaking out at school board meetings about critical race theory. critical race theory is child abuse because it teaches young children to hate themselves, hate our police, and hate our country. please, by the way, every democrat city that has criticized and defunded police

has seen an increase in murders and crimes are out of control. host: let's go to tyrone calling from illinois on the republican . good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to talk today about the inflation. they are talking about it being a short-term thing for our country. i am a businessman. i get stuff from china all the time. a container from china used to run about $2500 to get it overseas. then it went to $7,000 and today they are running $15,000, $60,000. i don't see any change in that for the next two years. i think inflation will be here to stay. i don't think it will be a short-term thing and i think that is something our country needs to take a look at and see what we can do to get our goods

and services at affordable prices for retailers to keep prices down across the united states. i thank you for your time. host: let's go to angel calling from marysville, washington on the democratic line. good morning. caller: hey, good morning. my thing is with the whole covid-19 thing is they are finding out severity has to do with the microbes in our body. we have it in our skin and even down to our dna. probiotics i think will be a help for a lot of people suffering from this, especially the long-termers still having issues with covid. i am really hopeful on that end. i am big on making our own probiotics.

it has way more good stuff because there is a lot of disease that happens in our gut first. all the high starches, all the high sugars, this american diet is tragically horrible for micro biomes. i want to put that out and god bless and love everybody. host: i bring to you another new story coming out of nevada yesterday. i will read the story coming from thehill.com. nevada governor officially signed a law a bill that would make the silver state the first in the nation to hold the presidential primary during a general election year. the measure passed both chambers of the legislature last month and would change nevada's contest from a caucus to a primary that would be held on the first tuesday in february. despite the friday signing the

bill will still need to gain the support of national political parties to take affect. should the parties not agree to the change, nevada state parties could lose delegates as the presidential nomination conventions, associated press noted friday. nevada considering moving its contest to become the first date presidential primary. what are you interested in talking about? we go to kelly calling from ohio on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to say i saw on the news adam schiff is being investigated by the trump party and i think it is about time. host: i think he might have gotten his news story wrong. we will bring it up in a few

minutes. richard calling from verona, missouri on the democratic line. good morning. caller: just a few things to say here. black people got to realize these state legislators are all white most of them trying to enforce these voting laws. are you there? host: go ahead, richard. caller: all i can say is people get out and vote. you know, they want to keep white control over everything. you better get out and vote. i will get off. thank you. host: harry calling from georgia on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i was just calling because, you

know, everybody is talking about this election. they think it was terrible -- joe biden won by a huge margin for recent elections -- but there are two elections i noticed that were anomalous. two senators who were way behind in the polls, each won 20% margins in their state but nobody is concerned. one is mitch mcconnell and what is lindsey graham. i wish people would look into those. one more thing i want to say, just because some guy called about critical race theory, this is not something they teach as a subject in schools. this is something that is looked at in academics but it is the attitude of teaching history in the united states where we actually teach the truth.

instead of lying to them in school. host: one caller brought up the story that came out on friday about the investigations the justice department was doing and i want to be to you a couple of paragraphs from the usa today story. the justice department independent watchdog on friday announced it was launching a broad investigation into whether the trump administration and its to attorney general's improperly seized from records of lawmakers, staff and journalists as part of a 2018 leak investigation. the justice department inspector general michael horowitz confirmed he would launch an investigation into it, as well as on the use of subpoenas to obtain journalists' phone records. the watchdog would look beyond subpoenas to other legal authority views to obtain communication records and

connection with recent records of alleged unauthorized leaks to the media. the justice department is looking at the previous two justice department's and their seizure of democrats' and journalists' phone data. so fester is calling -- sylvester is calling from maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. i am concerned of the people trying to discount joe biden being the president. he is the legitimate president of the united states and he won hands down. i think republicans should go and sit down and maybe think of something else to do. thank you. host: let's go to carolyn calling from baltimore, maryland

on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i'm calling about the people who think there is no racism. i'm 60 years old. when we drove from maryland to the south my mom had to take us to the woods because she could not take us to a bathroom because they did not allow black people to go into a lot of gas stations. if you grew up and you are white and could go to a bathroom, you experienced racism because it did not impact you. i wish we would have these conversations because when it does not impact you, you have no clue that you have noticed it. with cancel culture, we have been canceled forever. we had to fight for voting rights, we had to fight for the right to drink coffee in a store. we have been canceled forever. we need to have these conversations because a lot of

people are not aware because it does not impact them. thank you for c-span. host: one caller brought up -- a couple of them brought up earlier -- the conversation over critical race theory. i want to read to you a little bit about what is going on right now in florida and other states. florida board of education band critical race theory from public school classrooms friday, adopting new rules that would shield schoolchildren from curricula that could distort historical events. this move was widely expected as a national debate intensifies about how race should be used as a lens and classrooms to examine the country's tumultuous history. republican governor ron desantis appeared by video at the top of the meeting urging members, many of whom he appointed, to adopt the new measures he asserted instead of trying to indoctrinate students with ideology. the black lives matter movement

helped bring discussion about race to the forefront of american discourse and classrooms have become a battleground. supporters contend federal law has preserved the unequal treatment of people on the basis of race in the country was founded on the theft of land and labor. opponents of critical race theory sake schoolchildren should not be taught america is fundamentally racist. legislators around the country are considering or have signed bills with the laws that would limit how teachers can frame american history. that's what's going on in florida. if you want to see more about what critical race theory is, we had a roundtable discussion back in may on washington journal. you can see it online at c-span.org. go to c-span.org to see the roundtable on what critical race

theory is and how it is being portrayed across the united states. let's go back to our phone lines and talk to michael calling from boston, massachusetts on the independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call and happy sunday morning to all. i am happy to be able to give a comment regarding critical race theory. i guess it is a big kerfuffle but here is the thing to know. as the previous caller backs up my point she talks about during the jim crow years how they had to go into the forest to use the bathroom. what it she say? this is what they did to black people. the problem with critical race theory and why it is untrue is that there was one group of people who were held back in the country and that was black people.

the native americans fought wars with the incoming europeans and they created treaties over these wars and they even owned black people. this critical race theory is garbage. host: michael, i think the asian population in california and other parts across the nation and the hispanic population would disagree with your contention that african-americans were the only ones discriminated against by law. caller: they would but there is no comparison. you don't make legitimate comparisons like that. it is disrespectful. host: are you saying the chinese exclusion act was not racist? caller: listen, that was in 1903, way after the civil war. what it is is it disrespectful equation with what black people went through.

black people, believe it or not -- and these republicans are doing what is in best interest. democrats are not looking out for your interest. they are lying about you and trying to help other groups of people. the latinos, they are giving them the shot. asians? they have been given the shot. host: let's go to bill calling from new york on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i wanted to talk about the vaccinations and who was going to hold liability when we find out there is massive sickness as a result of these vaccinations? traditionally it has taken over 10 years to figure out how safe vaccinations are. just as we are seeing now if you go to the cdc's own reporting,

you see there are thousands and thousands literally, over 5200 people who died in the united states. most people don't know that. by their own admission the cdc says they get between 1% and 10% of the actual side effects that go on. that could be as high as 50,000. if you look at europe, the european union reports 15,000 deaths and that is not including the u.k. we don't know. there could be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of death and that is not including side effects. we know people have shown up in hospitals from the side effects. my question is who is going to hold the liability when we find out autoimmune disease is going to skyrocket? these spiked proteins they are injecting into your body do not

remain stationary. we know very well from studies that they travel through different organs in your body. we have not studied this. host: let's go to shirley calling from columbia, missouri the democratic line. good morning. shirley, are you there? let's go to jean calling from florence, south carolina on the independent line. caller: good morning. i will talk about covid for a while. everybody complains about covid but nobody -- cancer, strokes, seizures, they have new treatments and nobody is worried about how many of them died. nobody. your doctors wouldn't see you,

the hospital told you to get out, nobody cares about that. and about the doj, if we don't do something about donald trump and get good legislation on the votes, we will have this again. host: let's go to henrietta calling from fort pierce, florida on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i just wanted to comment on the young woman who phoned regarding having to go to the bathroom in the woods. this is a terrible -- racism is a terrible thing. did you hang up? host: no, go ahead. caller: racism is a terrible stain on the country. however, as a country we have truly evolved.

our hearts have grown and we have learned to accept other people. frankly, it was the democrats that brought those disgusting jim crow laws. nobody seems to know that and it is disgraceful. these democrats run around as if they have the heart of god when they have done such terrible things. they have not apologized for this. it was the republicans who literally helped our country get over this terrible state. host: we go to mike calling from rockford, illinois on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. a couple of things of

clarification. covid, where did it come from? grand jury investigation instead of 9/11 investigation they are pushing. i think there are a lot of loopholes in the nine investigation -- 9/11 investigation. the fbi refusing to turn over or help the investigation of congress on the june 6. a couple of days ago i read an article about refusing to work with them when asking questions. about january 6 also, there were over 20 servicemen that were caught in the uprising, or whatever you want to call it. is that a treason offense where they might see the firing line? that is another question i would like answered. host: let's go to gabriel

calling from durham, north carolina on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. there has been a lot of topics. can you say with the main thing is we are focusing on today? host: we are doing open forum so whenever is important to you. caller: ok. i think the hb1 and sb1, i think that is the most salient thing especially because of the potential from companies and corporations being able to do their damage to the democratic process. the ability for people to have access to the polls should not be a democrat or republican issue. that is the fundamental level of all society and the truth is right now that people don't understand. because there has been, you know, people in the background

who have certain personalities that have swayed them one way or another. they have lost sight of the reality the voting is that key component and i think if you don't fix money in politics, if you don't remove citizens united from the supreme court -- and it goes back longer than that which basically says -- you will not fix the current system we have. host: we go to carol calling from dixon, tennessee on the republican line. good morning. caller: yes, sir. i was calling about donald trump having people checked out while in office? dianne feinstein had people working in her house, chinese spy they caught trying to get things out. and then swalwell, his girlfriend from china had been giving him money.

then hunter biden with all of his deals from china and drugs that he took. why wouldn't he check and find out who is giving away and selling out stuff here in our upper jobs like senators or congressmen? may be they got people working in their offices they don't know about. host: let's go to harriet calling from florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i would just like to say to all of the black americans out there that there really should be a true black american who is on the democrat or republican party in the near future. if you look at the whole democrat or republican candidates over the last 10 years, there has been zero. kamala harris does not count,

her mother was from india. barack obama has fooled black america because his mother was white yet they call him a black man and that is absolutely wrong. i would love to see some real true black americans i could grab out of jacksonville, florida and say yes, these people have been here 400 years. host: that's interesting. after the break of our weekly spotlight on magazine segment features reason editor at large matt welch. we talk about his recent piece looking at the impact of pandemic related policies pushed by democrats as some of the unintended consequences -- and some of the unintended consequences. stick with us, we will be right back. ♪ ♪ announcer: book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and

authors every weekend. tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern john grisham, author of "the innocent man" on his work with the innocence project and wrongful convictions. sunday at 9:00 p.m. eastern on afterward former nypd commissioner bill bratton on his book "the profession" and interviewed by charles ramsey, former philadelphia police commissioner and metropolitan d.c. police chief. 10:00 p.m. eastern this yell professor with her book "america on fire." watch book tv on c-span2 this weekend. ♪ ♪ announcer: american history tv on c-span. exploring the people and events

that tell the american story. today at 5:00 p.m. eastern a look at controversies over free speech with jonathan zimmerman. today at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war discussion with chris makowski. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on lectures in history johns hopkins university professor nathan connolly on the promise of suburbia after the civil rights movement and how local governments impeded desegregation. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency a symposium on first ladies with scholars discussing why they have such powerful voices and how they wield power. exploring the american story, watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. ♪ announcer: "washington journal" continues. host: we are back with matt

welch, the editor at large at reason magazine. we are here this morning to talk about the impact of democratic pandemic policy. matt, good morning. guest: good morning. thank you for having me. host: thank you for being here. tell us for our viewers who might not be reading, which they all should be, what reason magazine is and what you focus on. guest: it was founded in 1968 by a 20-year-old college student named lenny friedlander. it is for free minds and free markets. . it has a libertarian orientation, small l, and it is an attempt to discuss elements in culture and politics from a point of view stressing individuality, individualism, free markets, and freedom overall.

reason.com does a lot of audiovisual stuff like videos and podcasts. host: your recent article is called "the equity miss." tell us why you decided to write this article. guest: it was actually not supposed to be about equity at all. i was tasked by my editor to look at pandemic policies, particularly policies that might impact people in the economy and elsewhere, going into the future. how is this going to affect us? the thing i discovered along the way which is alarming and anomalous was looking at the disparate economic impact by the states. sort states out by looking -- and this is what was available at the time -- between february 2020, the onset of the pandemic, to the end of december 2020 and

looked at which states lost the highest percentage of jobs, which states lost the lowest percentage of jobs? in a couple of cases gained jobs. the 18 states that lost the most all voted for joe biden. that is a weird coincidence and not one i went looking for. as someone who is not democrat or republican i don't have a natural interest to brunette the parties. the 18 states that lost the fewest jobs, all 18 were run by republicans. 16 voted for donald trump. that is weird. to say the least and not explained by the disparate impact of covid-19 that are roughly the same immortality. what was that? that begin the inquiry for me and that is inextricably

linked with education policy. we have 50 million kids or thereabouts in our k-12 system. i'm talking to you from brooklyn, new york where like a lot of big cities and big democratic cities schools aren't open. my 12-year-old goes to school twice a week and this is largely the case in los angeles and chicago and elsewhere. you start to see there is kind of a blue state, red state recession. blue state, red state school opening policies that have a disproportionate impact on communities, poor communities and more minority communities. this became, especially when you look at the school opening aspect, a lot of the reasons given for keeping schools closed were done in the name of combating systemic racism of battling inequities.

to my mind that is strangely backward because the impact of having schools not open fall on those communities particularly hard. in spooling backward from all of that i noticed things i had not keyed in on before which is the extent to which the biden administration has enshrined the notion of equity. which is an interesting new twist on the way we talk about racial disparities in this country and people opportunity. his first executive order was to examine equity in the federal government in all programs, all departments, in all impacts of government policies. my argument in the piece, beside lang out the history of the word and concept of equity, is to make the argument the modern parlance of that, which is measuring backward from outcomes

which is new -- we used to talk about equality of opportunity versus outcomes and roughly understood we want to look for equality of opportunity because that would be easier government wise. a government that could guarantee perfect parody is a government that will probably produce mass him as a ration -- commiseration. if you measure back in the outcomes of pandemic policies and judge them based on this equity lens, it is really hard to escape the conclusion that the pandemic policies favored in big cities inequitable precisely in those communities we are trying the most to help. host: for our viewers who might not be completely following along, describe the difference between equity and equality. guest: the way it is used now is

equity is roughly comparable to equality of outcome. kamala harris right before the election, her closing argument in november, there is animated video where she explains the difference between equity and equality and the way she puts it is equity is when we all end up in the same place. that is kind of new. as i said before equality of opportunity is the idea of removing discrimination in the law and saying ok, at least we are no longer actively discriminating against people and saying you cannot use the bathroom here, you can't go to school here, you can't do all of that. equity is looking at equality of outcome and measuring backward and saying ok, these policies here have a disproportionately bad effect on communities of color, or historically disadvantaged communities.

we therefore need to do something about that in order to ameliorate that going forward. it is kind of the change of difference and one that the biden administration is now measuring across all departments of government. host: your argument is that if we look at what the biden administration has done as far as covid-19, they will not -- the numbers will not look well for them when we look at the outcome and the future correct? guest: yes and no. i wrote this article about two months ago and i was just mentioning the incredibly disparate impact of covid policy on the state and local level. inarguable i say. however, you have to say right now on the state and local level there is disparity in vaccine rollout that tells a much more favorable story to democrats. the places that have the most

vaccine rollout and are bending the curve into submission right now are a democratic state -- all democratic states. the world is a complicated space and we should not let partisan blinders mask that. however, the biden administration by asking us to measure things in this way, and the way the centers for disease control have impacted school reopenings in february and march when they revised the guidance over what can happen, they don't have the authority to tell local school district what to do. however, they do have influence, particularly in places controlled by democrats where the teachers union has been strong in trying to keep schools is closed as possible. they would dispute that characterization. they looked at the cdc guidance which was in february and unusually strict.

according to the guidance as written, 90% of the schools already open shouldn't have been open. they have since relaxed some of those rules. but the biden administration bears responsibility for that decision and it's a bad decision that impacts poor communities the hardest. there are 3 million kids estimated who disappeared from k-12 education. that is a catastrophe. the learning loss we are going to suffer over the last 15 months is abysmal and something we are going to be grappling with a longtime. yes, the biden administration does bear some of that responsibility. but most of what i looked at in the piece is talking about the difference at state and local level as opposed to the federal level. host: let me remind our viewers they can take part of this conversation. we are going to open up our regular lines. republicans, your number is (202)-748-8000. democrats, your number is -- i

messed that up. republicans, your number is (202)-748-8001. democrats (202)-748-8000, independents (202)-748-8002. you can always text us at (202)-748-8003 and we are always reading a social media on twitter @c-spanwj and on facebook at facebook.com/c-span. you and i were just talking about the educational effects of the coronavirus pandemic. you mentioned your 12-year-old is still going to school part-time in person, part-time virtual. same thing with my 14-year-old, soon-to-be 13-year-old. what is the impact and how will we know whether the biden administration did the right thing when it comes to education in america? guest: well, all measures are that remote learning has been a bad deal for most kids and i

think most teachers too. it is just not a pleasant way to do anything. there is a generational problem. some republicans have done wonderful things and studying the effects -- i was looking at a study earlier today talking about the spike in teen suicide attempts. parents know what i'm talking about. those who are parents might have heard about it and it has affects of people as well, which is not a small thing. to have the parents be able to organize their own work, one silly example, i have another daughter in kindergarten who is six. one day in february, sunday at 9:30 in the evening we would get an email from her school like, school will be closed for the

next 10 days because there were two positive cases for covid in a school of 1000 people. that was really strict new york guidelines. imagine you're trying to figure out what your kids' life is going to be, we organized a pod, a learning thing with fellow parents to absorb this. we are lucky to be able to do that. not everybody has the means. the effect on kids i think is going to be terrible. the united states is unique in all the industrialized world and how much our schools were closed, how much kids were wearing masks. in europe, kids under 12 have not been wearing masks. we are still in a lot of places mandating -- in new york, kids are supposed to wear masks outdoors during summer camp if they are two or three years old. it is madness.

this is disproportionately happening -- i presume your kids are in the washington area. the d.c. school system as recently as february of this year, the president of the american federation of teachers was recommending that there be a mandated closure for 24 hours if there was a single case positive in a school and they needed that to wipe everything down. we have known from last june at least that covid-19 does not spread by surfaces, not spread by going to the playground and picking up a cootie. in places like california, the playgrounds had yellow tape on them well into the fall and the winter. this has been very bad for kids. hopefully, they are resilient creatures. we should work backwards and take a moral self inventory from policy, from just kind of the way we are approaching things.

we sacrificed kids in large effect, to our own sense of fear, to our own sense of power distribution in the way that public school policies are impacted and dealt with. my wife is french and we have a lot of french in-laws who work in the teaching system. you would normally associate french with being friendly toward unions of all varieties, and they are horrified at how much public-sector unions, particularly in schools, impacted policies in the way to keep schools closed. hopefully in september, schools will just be open full-time, but it is really hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube on this. schools right now in big districts are grappling with this. new york decided there will be no -- learning. -- promote learning. los angeles -- no remote learning.

los angeles and other places are keeping it alive. there will be a large, widescale abandonment of the public school system in a way we have not seen in decades, that will affect american lives looking forward and the way that k-12 is administered, funded, and viewed. those impacts i think were only probably going to understate them. host: we will get back to the point of the abandonment of the school system, but i want to get our callers into this conversation. eric is calling from atlanta, georgia, on the democratic line. caller: a lot of what you are saying really makes no sense. you are talking about biden apology but under trunk there was the socialism party. steve malaysian -- steve mnuchin was putting trillions of dollars far billionaire individuals. he was giving money to the

farmers, tariff taxes, giving money to the airlines, any industry you can name he was doing it. when the democrats started to give some money, they give a check to each individual. the socialism is from the republicans, they would do anything they can to make sure that billionaire donors get money. that is the inequality. would you agree to this -- if democrats passed a bill and the republican governors don't want it because they voted against it, if the people in their state will not get the stimulus checks, not get unemployment, will not get business loans and ppp because they voted against it. if the representatives in their districts voted against it, no one gets it. that's when you have a true democracy. host: go ahead and respond. guest: a couple of things, one is that the basic argument that

the trump administration was a big government's administration, absolutely right. please google my name and government spending and donald trump and republican party. you will see lots of things written about that. i am as a libertarian, a person, and admittedly idiosyncratic view is that the government spends too much money. one of my critiques for republicans and under donald trump as they stopped the rhetorical move of opposing the growth of government spending and the growth of government in general. on the specifics of whether you should withhold federal spending to places that didn't vote for it, first of all, all the covid related bailout bills that passed under trump were passed i think by a -- an average of 90%

to 95% bipartisan, incredibly popular. it is really popular for politicians to send checks to people. i think both parties have learned that. the american rescue plan was more on partisan lines, yes, that is true. i don't think we want to establish the principle that federal moneys are held up based on what republican governors or people who vote no on bills are. there are all kinds of legal problems. as a basic proposition, i am against corporate welfare all in all. the word "socialism" was introduced by the caller, not me. host: cynthia from san carlos, california, on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning, and thank you for c-span. if i'm remembering right, didn't president trump urge the

governors in each of their states to try to get people back to work much earlier than the cdc was? in california, governor newsom put in policies where each county's health directors were telling people what they could do. so many people lost jobs and a high proportion of jobs lost were in health care. especially for the smaller physicians and physicians offices. i also felt quite a toll was taken on people who did not have covid or a covid related medical problem, that they aren't being able to get in to even see their

physicians, so many lives were lost of people who did not have covid, but their other issues that could not be done by telemedicine, were not addressed. and then we also lost the lives to suicide. so there's just been a lot of -- the people not being able to go to school and being in these perpetual lockdowns, i feel california has lost quite a bit. host: go ahead and respond. guest: california, which is my native state, it has been i think tragic some of these responses, how playgrounds were closed. the purpose of california, people began moving there hundred years ago to escape cities, to take a tour outside and breathe the air. we have this mountain climate and we've known for more than a year now that one of the very

best things you can do to combat covid is go out in the sunshine and breathe the air. it doesn't spread and the sunshine is good for you. california was pulling surfers out of the water and dumping sand on skate parks and all kinds of policies that are just kind of hideous to think about. to the trump point, trump set a whole lot of different things as president about covid, we are going to reopen during easter. i think he was mixing his messaging on a near conference -- near constant basis when he was doing a press conference every day. i don't think that was fulfilling the government's role in a pandemic of communicating clear information. he injected himself into the school debate and the school reopening debate and the school reopening debate in a way that is interesting. i think he was right on the terms of it -- this is basically last july, betsy devos, also a

polarizing character whether you agree or disagree -- they were strong saying, schools should be open in the fall. you could see teachers unions who 95% of their donations go to democratic politicians threw up their hands in glee, saying the people that we hate and our politicians hate now have strongly been on the opposite side of our argument. if you look at -- and people have, brookings has looked at this, harvard has looked at this -- what is the most determinative factor or predictive factor of whether a school district was open or closed? it was not covid, ladies and gentlemen. it was literally what the local polity thought of donald trump. i wish i could report anything different, because you wouldn't want that kind of sense of partisan split and vitriol and

opinion to matter more than, i don't know, a disease and kids and policy, and yet it didn't. there was an argument at the time when he injected himself into the debate among people like me who want schools to be open, no, this is going to boomerang and allow people to keep schools closed. in fact, i think it did, but that is not necessarily the fault of the president or education secretary. the fault lies in human beings and make your decisions based on what is smart, not how much you hate the other guy. host: we've been talking about education and i want to stick with that topic. what would you say to school districts whose teachers are saying, nobody is talking about how we are being affected by covid-19, what about our lives? what if we get infected by working? we want to make sure we are safe before we come back.

the children might be safe, but what about us? guest: teachers everywhere have been prioritized for the vaccine , i believe from the beginning in most states. teachers were basically in the front of the line and by march, the biden administration also made that a priority everywhere. if a teacher wants to be vaccine and is vaccine, and this is true of anybody in america over the age of 12, that's not happening. as rochelle walensky, the cdc director said as recently as last july when she was more in the private sector, at least not in the federal government, and reiterated as well that schools are about the safest places there are. so you are not going to catch it there disproportionately.

kids themselves, thankfully, knock on wood, despite being germ monsters did not disproportionately suffer from it or transmit it. the fact has not been reiterated enough, but the number of deaths under 18 from covid is minuscule, i think under 300. you can die all kinds of ways under the age of 18 before you get to covid mortality. it is disproportionately a safe place now. also in the big cities where they are more likely to be closed, it is also much more likely that teachers have been given the ability to teach remotely. they've been given -- there's been a lot of compromises given in the direction of teachers who were afraid themselves were immunocompromised or uniquely vulnerable. that was an argument that was taken very seriously, probably more seriously in america than

any other country. and now that's over. it's time to get back into school. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to joe from buffalo, new york, on the democrat line. caller: good morning, jesse. hello to your guest. i guess this guy wants private everything, right? and don't cut me off, please. he wants private roads, private schools, private everything, right, so the rich guys can run everything. this libertarian guy, you got to be kidding me, and guy never shuts up. host: go ahead and respond. guest: you are right, i never shut up. so, my daughters have gone just like their parents, to public schools their entire life. we wanted to send our kids to public schools forever, for a

variety of reasons -- not forever, hopefully they graduate from the things. we have a strong value of public education. i am sending my six-year-old to private school in the fall and it is kind of a heartbreaking decision. i didn't want to do that. do i want private roads? sure, it would be great. the public one outside my door sure has gigantic potholes. but my journalism and advocacy is not done out of a sense of trying to privatize every last thing in the world. you can take that for what it is. i understand that people have distrust and distaste sometimes for libertarians. it is fine. i'm sure a lot of people have a lot of reasons to hate a lot of others. but i've been writing on the record 35 years easily searchable both my views and journalism, and judge it for what it is.

host: you mentioned earlier, you predict an exodus from public schools. tell us why you think a bunch of parents like you will be sending children to private school. guest: it has already happened. there has been a 5% decrease in enrollment for the current school year, the 20222021 year -- 2020-2021 year. private school is about even as it was before. charter schools have been just as closed as public schools largely because they operate under single -- similar rules. the main growth area has been in homeschooling in poor and minority communities which is interesting. that is likely to increase. for luminary numbers from new york city witches -- preliminary numbers from new york city, the

largest school system, which doesn't even measure my youngest daughter, is that there is going to be an extra 9% decrease. that is a huge, huge number. i mentioned before 3 million kids have dropped out and we don't know where they are. hopefully they will start coming back into the system or any system in a measurable way. also, there is current things -- concurrent things happening. the pandemic is the biggest one and has caused people -- people have seen the zoom classes and have peaked under the hood a little bit, exposed to different varieties of schools, so there is that. also, sort of spreading out from places like brooklyn, our daughter's school district was the first one to engage in the name of equity and desegregation, in a system known as controlled choice where parents rank their choices but

then administrators or algorithms influenced by administrators control it to try to produce better, from their point of view, demographic leveling between schools so that there isn't over clustering of people of socio-economic or racial status. controlled choice has been fadd ish since 2007 when the supreme court under john roberts outlawed specific race targets in schooling. what has happened when controlled choice has been implemented as it has been and is in new york city, people leave the system. our school district was the first in new york to implement this on the middle school level. it had been increasing in enrollment for at least a half a decade every year. the first year they implemented

this, there was a decrease in 7%, pre-pandemic. when people looked at this, san francisco did this, people left the system and also the underlying segregation, in their words, did not get better, it got worse. both of those things i think will contribute, the pandemic much more, obviously, but people abandoning the system. we might be old enough to remember the 1970's when people abandoned systems and cities. those left behind suffered the most and it has really remarkable impacts on communities. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to wade, edgefield, south carolina, independent line. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i think public schools have been in trouble for years. i know i had problems.

i am 62 years old and i ended up quitting in 10th and got a ged sooner than i would've graduated, which i have the lady that was teaching the ged school that tutored me some and helped me along. 2009, my boy was in public school and even got to the third grade. he started having problems with people picking at him and stuff like that, so i tried to talk to the schools and the principles and no one wanted to discuss it, so i took him out and put him in a private school and he done well, done real well. he is in college now, but the public schools have been having problems for years. we just got a bunch of fat cats in public schools that are going

to do what they want to do, right or wrong, for the kids. host: go ahead and respond. guest: one of the biggest conundrums in school in america is students funding when you adjust for inflation has increased nearly 300% over the last half-century, yet all the measurable outcomes appeared to be basically flat or the same. this is different in the rest of the world. what to do about that, the reason foundation which publishes the magazine, a lot of bills on the state and local level, you need competition in the provision of services. you can keep public funding at its current level but allow the funding to follow students where students and families feel like they are getting the best value.

maybe that's a charter system. we don't necessarily need the one-size-fits-all model and this is going to again, impact things in the fall. in new york, we are getting rid of remote is a possibility. some people like the remote schooling. the majority do not and if they are offered five days a week, they will take it, but some want to do that and because new york has mostly a one-size-fits-all thing when it comes to the government provision of public education, that option will be taken off the table. there will be people looking for more flexible provision of services and it makes sense. we engage in competition all over the place and it generally produces better results. new orleans went to, after hurricane katrina, went to a basically systemwide choice system and has worked out pretty well. i think we need to be looking

more at allowing -- spending government money on students rather than on school buildings. host: what's the loose -- what's the solution, would you say? some of the policies by the biden administration don't look like they are going to work. what's the solution? guest: that's a large question at all times. right now, so, getting back to the concept of using equity as the lens through which to look at things, that can be useful. sometimes it can be unuseful in that we kind of overfocus on racial categories that themselves are kind of fluid or have not been helpful, like what is a latino or asian american? this is kind of broad categories and there are many days i worry that we are kind of essential lysing and flattening our individual characteristics that

might not be easily categorized into one neat place. that said, sometimes when you measure outcomes in success, you should be measuring outcomes in success generally speaking. every government program should be measured on whether it is delivering on its promises or not. we can use that focus or imperative as enshrined in the first order the biden administration published, for incomes that they are doing it based on race and socioeconomic status, but just in general. if they are going to go through with this, let us act more like auditors and say, this works and this doesn't and act upon that. that is hopelessly naive, i am sure. i think especially in a really polarized political climate where there is widespread distrust of the other team, we are speaking in a week where there has been kind of a moral

panic on critical race theory throughout public educations everywhere, people passing laws right and left that people have to -- teachers have to wear body cams. there is widespread mistrust, so let's use the equity lens if we are going to be using yet, just as an opportunity to measure government outcomes. if it is not working, stop doing it, for crying out loud, and allow for more than just one-size-fits-all solutions to all problems. host: larry from 29 palms, florida -- 20, california on the democrat line. caller: supporters like you don't seem to like government, big government. a lot of people like me spend half their life working for this country to make it good, to give everybody everything they need. trump's policies with the virus,

he should have listened to pelosi. that was the roadmap to collaborate -- recovery. his sister ran education for four years under trump, did nothing. we have a saying in california -- learn it, love it, or leave it. a lot of white people, go back to your god-given country. host: do you want to respond? guest: so i think it is actually a useful thing to listen to a caller just make an assumption that i like or love or voted for trump, based solely because i am talking about an article that was critical of democrats. that speaks to a lot of the distressed in this country, and i hope people take it as a teaching moment, and also to check yourself if not wreck yourself if we are going to be dropping 1990's slang from

california. an article i wrote called "the case against trump," ok, so maybe if you actually listen to what people say, you can have respectful disagreement. you like big government. i respect that. it is a disagreement. if you start making assumptions out of people than you make an ass out of you and me, as we used to say in california. let's stop making blind, negative, collective assumptions based on just what we assume that people have or immutable characteristics, yes, the color of my skin is white. who cares? host: larry from burnsville, minnesota, on the democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning. mr. 28/20 hindsight, why didn't you write your book last july?

think of all of the problems real and imagined we could have avoided if you had written and told us these things beforehand. why do you keep talking about the biden administration when your book doesn't even cover one day of his administration? guest: yeah, so this isn't a book. this is a magazine article that was published a couple of months ago. and i talk about trump administration, as i have, mentioned to the previous caller. part of the case against trump was his pandemic handling, and that magazine article. you can have a look if you would like. i write about the biden administration because they are in power. a journalist looks at who is in power and what they are doing in our name with our money in the seat of power. the particular case in the article, the two elements i put

under scrutiny for biden is the effect that the politicized cdc guidance about schools had on the opening of schools, and again, that's changed somewhat since then. they went back, the biden ministration invited stakeholders to massage the science and that is worthy of criticism. executive order about equity and what that could mean, not necessarily criticism but an examination thereof. it is appropriate to examine in a critical lens republicans, democrats, anyone else in power. it's what i'm going to do for the rest of my life. host: we would like to thank matt welsh, editor at large at "reason" magazine" coming on the show to talk about his article. 90 so much for your time. guest: thank you. it was great fun.

host: we would like to thank all of our callers, viewers, and guests for another great addition of "washington journal." continue to wash your hands and we will see you at 7:00 tomorrow morning. everyone, have a great saturday. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? no, it is way more than that. >> comcast is partnering with 1000 community centers so students can get the tools they need to be ready for anything. >> comcast supports c-span as a

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