his recent piece on cancel culture. join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages and tweets. "washington journal" is next. ♪ host: good morning and welcome to "washington journal." joe biden signed the newest federal holiday this week when he gave recognition to juneteenth. that has been celebrated in african-american communities for years but will now be recognized nationwide by states and the federal government as the 12th federal holiday. with this new holiday in place we are going to start by asking you what are you is the significance of the new juneteenth federal holiday? we open regional lines.

that means if you are in the eastern or central time zones, you can call (202)-748-8000. if you are in the mountain or pacific time zones, you can call (202)-748-8001. if you have celebrated juneteenth before this year, if you celebrated in the past, let us know what that was like. your number is (202)-748-8002. keep in mind you can always text us at (202)-748-8003, and we are always reading on social media on facebook at facebook.com/c-span or on twitter @c-spanwj. president joe biden signed juneteenth into law thursday. it started by defining what juneteenth is. juneteenth commemorates june 19,

1865 when union soldiers brought the news of freedom to enslaved black people in galveston, texas, two months after the confederacy surrendered. that was also two and a half years after the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves. it is the first new federal holiday since martin luther king jr. day was created in 1983. president biden came out and made remarks thursday before signing the legislation designating juneteenth as the most federal holiday. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> today marks the sixth anniversary of emmanuel church in charleston. the killer, motivated by hate, intending to start a race war in south carolina. he joined his for m's and a bible -- he joined his victims

in a bible study class. hate only hides. it never fully goes away. when you breathe oxygen under that rock it comes out. that is what we must understand. juneteenth represents not only the commemoration of the end of slavery 150 years ago but the ongoing fight to bring equity and racial justice which we can do. this estate doesn't just celebrate the past, it calls for action today. i wish all americans a happy juneteenth. host: the new york times has a story this morning about president biden signing juneteenth into law and making it the newest federal holiday. here is what they had to say. the law went into effect

immediately making friday the first juneteenth holiday. public schools were closed on a moments notice, the federal office of personnel management announced employees would observe the holiday friday, since june 19 falls on a saturday. at the white house officials canceled the daily press briefing and pulled down normal meetings for friday. the nasdaq stock market said u.s. market were expected to remain open friday. the senate rushed the measure through no debate after clearing away a long-standing republican objection and the house approved it on wednesday by 415 to 14 with the opposition all coming from the gop. once again this is the newest federal holiday. the 12th federal holiday being put on the calendar for this year. so, representative sheila jackson lee, who was one of the

lawmakers who pushed through the new holiday, came to the house floor to talk about this legislation and here's what she had to say. [video clip] >> when i introduced this to make juneteenth a federal holiday to commemorate the end of slavery, the original sin, and bring about celebration, crushing racial divide down to a point of unity to this earth, it is because of the perseverance, the strength of our mutual communities, african-americans, that struggle for equality. it would be remiss if i did not appoint that slavery was real. these are the brutal backs upon which the whip went over and over and over again. not only men, women, children possibly, as history recounts. the history is limited because it is slave narratives that i humbly and respectfully say

those stories are in broken english. but i remember one where a woman's life said to her husband that had been taken away or been a freed slave to another plantation. she said, husband, come back, come back, they are about to sell me and your children to different places. that is what this moment in time represented for us. but look where we are today. look where we are. in the midst of what people have described as racial divide we have come to a place where we acknowledge the 47 states that have done a celebratory, unified, and multicultural celebration of juneteenth. let me tell you why. juneteenth is significant african-americans as it will be to americans because we are americans and it means freedom.

june 19, 1865, general granger found himself on the shores of galveston. the senator and i will be in galveston this juneteenth. how coincidental? can you imagine how short i am? i will be standing may be taller than senator cornyn, forgive me for that, because it will be such a joy. that we will be there for a historic celebration. but juneteenth came in june 1865 and shortly thereafter in the next few months the 13th amendment declared slavery unconstitutional in the united states. host: juneteenth becomes the 12th federal holiday recognized by our government here in washington, d.c. here are some of the other federal holidays that are celebrated now. new year's day, dr. martin luther king junior, george washington's birthday or

president's day, memorial day, independence day, labor day, columbus day and some people call that indigenous peoples day but the federal designation is still columbus day, veterans day, thanksgiving and christmas. there is another federal holiday not on that list but because it is only celebrated once every four years and that is inauguration day which makes it the 11th and now juneteenth is the 12th. during the debate over the federal juneteenth holiday you west texas gop senator regarding his concerns. here is what representative roy had to say. [video clip] >> the speaker knows we have discussed on the floor some of the concerns i have that i share with my colleague from louisiana. i wish, because i do believe

there will be some division without running this through committee, by embracing a name that is going to be seen as conflicting with the july 4 recognition. it has been referred to as independence day and i understand why. i think for purposes of recognition by the united states government it would be my preference, and i would offer an amendment if such things were done -- we literally never amend anything on the floor of this body -- i would offer an amendment embracing the recognition of this important day, june 19, 1865, and what that meant for the actual end of slavery and we passed the 13th amendment later that year if i remember. it would be important, and it has often been referred to in our history, as jubilee day,

freedom day, emancipation day. i would be amenable to any of those names. i don't believe the title national independence day works and i would prefer we have a debate on that. i agree with the gentleman from louisiana that it would've been preferred and that we should remember why regular order matters. as i told the speaker earlier i would prefer we have this be unanimous and i'm afraid it's not going to be. it will pass overwhelmingly and it is good we will pass it and the state will be commemorated, as it should and we have been commemorating it in texas a long time. but i just wish this body could get back to a time where we could sit down and work together when we have these minor differences because i believe we did and we would probably pass this unanimously. there might be one or two voting no because of the 660 million or

whatever, but we recognize the importance of the day and i would implore my colleagues going forward, particularly where there is so much agreement, that we would find a way to come together and hash out some of these differences so there could be a more unanimous belief in what we are doing. host: let's go to the phone lines and see what you think about the significance of the juneteenth federal holiday. bill calling from columbus, ohio. caller: good morning. i think this is a wonderful thing and i am so thankful for abraham lincoln. it will go down in history as a great day. thank you. host: howard is calling from indiana. good morning. caller: i think it is a great start. hopefully to bring justice to

this whole issue of the history of african-americans in this country. the preamble to the constitution says that among the first principles that as we, the people, endeavor to perfect our union and establish justice, establish justice is the first principle called out. that has never been done with respect african-americans. the effort for reparations, which will be in the trillions of dollars, tens of trillions of dollars, needs to happen and needs to happen immediately. we have got to resolve this and we have to outlaw white supremacy. it should be treated like we do pedophilia and register racists who committed these atrocities. we should not tolerate the kinds of things we have put up with in this country by white supremacists and white extremist

groups. host: let's go to janet calling from tennessee. good morning. caller: good morning. i am 70 years old. my grandmother was born 1887. she settled down when i was younger. all the grandchildren, she told us about this. but they won't teach it in school. it was sad it took that long -- i got relatives in texas and older relatives than me. they told about how they did down in galveston. they didn't want this to go through but god has his hands on this. host: janet, you celebrated juneteenth in the past. what type of celebrations have you been to? caller: this is what i'm telling you. i'm 70 years old and our families would get together. they would cook out and the

people would talk and tell us about this day, what was going on back then. my grandmother told us how they did. they didn't want them to know we were free. down the mississippi, how long it took them to know they were free. the republicans didn't want this in tennessee. marsha blackburn young, all of them, they did not want this. host: we go to cecil calling from arlington, texas. good morning. caller: how you doing? host: go ahead. caller: i think everybody is stupid and backward. what can you get out of the past? we need to deal with the now. we need to pass laws about these chokehold kicking in people's

doors, shooting them on the spot, shooting people that don't have a gun. that is what we need to be trying to do. the hell with juneteenth. everybody know about that. that ain't nothing. that is no milestone. host: let's go to todd calling from michigan. good morning. caller: good morning. the previous caller, i agree. it is time to get down to business. host: what do you mean? i think he jumped off. we are talking about the significance of the juneteenth federal holiday that has gone into effect. let's see what our social media followers are saying about the new juneteenth holiday. here's a post from facebook that

says, a national holiday that is banned from being taught in many schools across this country? here is a tweet that came in, june 19, 1865 is a significant day but why the who blot in just the past two years? democrats continue to try and win african-american voters anyway they can. now we can expect any day to be giving in to reparations. we have a lot of serious problems in this country and they take precedence over this. here's another text that says, anticipate a call for and movements to add additional holidays for native americans, women suffrage, lgbtq for the ny uprising, perhaps a few more. another text says the significance of the 19th is that the countries try to get things right. but there is a pit of injustice and grievance that can never be filled no matter how money holidays, how many reparations,

how many ceilings are shattered. let's go back to the phone lines and talk to pat who is calling from dallas, texas. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i grew up celebrating juneteenth. i am up early this morning because i am traveling to celebrate juneteenth but this is a special occasion because this is the 40th anniversary. there will be a parade, we are going to have fun, and it is special for me because i know my people, my ancestors, once walked, worked, and were slaves on the land i will visit and that is special to me. it always has been to me and my family. host: all right. on wednesday during the debate

about the federal juneteenth holiday democratic representative carolyn mahoney, chair of the oversight and reform committee, explained why she thought juneteenth should be a federal holiday. here what carolyn maloney had to say [video clip] >> this would establish juneteenth, which is celebrated june 19, as a federal holiday. our federal holidays are purposely few in number and recognize the most important milestones in our country's history. i cannot think of a more important milestone to commemorate than end of slavery in the united states. at the end of the civil war in 1865 hundreds of thousands of people remained enslaved despite the emancipation proclamation being issued nearly two years earlier. on june 19, 1865 major general gordon granger traveled to galveston, texas and issued

general order number 3, which declared all slaves are free. that is when 250,000 enslaved individuals in texas finally learned they were free. the celebration they held in galveston on that day is the basis for the juneteenth celebrations today. juneteenth is considered the longest running african-american holiday marking the end of slavery in the united states and it has been celebrated across the nation for over 150 years. first known as jubilee day, juneteenth is marked by food, music, fellowship. these celebrations on our freedom, recognize life, and uplift the complex history and beautiful culture of the african-american community. 47 states and the district of columbia have made juneteenth a public holiday, including my own state of new york.

while millions of americans have celebrated this important day for generations the federal government has failed in its responsibility to recognize its significance. today we can change that. it is often said that those who do not remember their past are doomed to repeat it. if we want to confront the sins of slavery and move forward toward a more equitable, fair, and free society, it is incumbent upon us to recognize not only our past evils but the triumph over those evils. making juneteenth holiday will undoubtably help us build a better future. host: let's go back to our phone lines and talk to yvonne calling from milwaukee, wisconsin. caller: good morning.

we have one of the oldest and longest celebrations of juneteenth in the country. we are celebrating the 50th anniversary and it is going to be a wonderful time. this gives us a chance to remember our past and hear from different speakers. we have come a long way but we have a long way to go. what we have to do is continue to act, to end systemic racism. we had a black president, black vice president, so this is just a way to remember and acknowledge our past, deal with the present, look forward to the future. the next step would be to try to end systemic racism in as many areas as we possibly can. host: describe for the audience what your juneteenth celebrations look like. caller: our juneteenth

celebrations, we are going to have about 8 blocks blocked off and will have vendors and food and music. we have a particular area set aside where children will be able to play with other children and they will of arts and crafts and a petting zoo. our celebration runs from 8:00 in the morning with the parade and then we have an open celebration to everyone from 10:00 until 4:00. we are looking forward to it. this is the 50th anniversary and it is a great time for all. we encourage people from all backgrounds, all races and colors to come and join us in this great celebration. host: let's go to herbert calling from river edge, new jersey. good morning. caller: good morning. i just want to have a special hymn for june 15.

"let us break bread on our knees" that should be the calling song. thank you. host: we go to david calling from baltimore, maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i think juneteenth is good they enacted the holiday but here's the one problem. i think they should have something for caucasian people because i think it is racist. don't get me wrong i support juneteenth but it is kind of racist leaving us people out. even asian people and other diverse people. that is my thought on it. host: what would you call holidays like columbus day? caller: that is the universal holiday. that is for anybody as far as i

know. don't get me wrong, it's a good holiday i just think they should have something for everybody because i think it is racist enacting things for one set of people. host: let's go to john calling from liverpool, new york. good morning. caller: how you doing? my opinion is that the juneteenth federal holiday should be the holiday -- can you hear me? host: we can hear you. go ahead. caller: ok. i don't think any event or any race or any whatever deserves two federal holidays. we have martin luther king day which was started to celebrate the blacks in totality. now we have two black holidays, we have nothing for the indians,

who have nothing for the latinos, why would we have two holidays for one race when we have none for other people? they should have one holiday and it should be juneteenth. that is more significant to me then martin luther king day. host: let's go to darry calling from dallas, texas. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: good morning. i feel great about this june 19 more than any i have been involved in. i just thank god for us to be recognized that we were free. but texas didn't find out until two years later. host: have you gone to any juneteenth celebrations before? caller: yes. host: describe what it was like.

caller: oh, it was great. everybody got something to eat, something to drink, soda, the kids have stuff to play in. talking about the past more or less. we smiled and we forgive everybody that had something to do with that. but now it is different. it is a happy june 19. host: let's go to jim calling from grand forks, north dakota. caller: how you doing? host: just fine. go ahead. caller: i am a regular caller. i think it is probably a good thing. it is good for african-americans

to have this and i wanted to say there was a guy that called earlier and he said, why isn't there something for caucasians? i will give you one example of one that has come and gone. back in the 1980's ronald reagan set aside october 6 of every year to be recognized by the government, and the congress later approved it -- it was in a national holiday but a congressional and presidential decree -- to recognize german-americans day. that was in 1983 which i believe was the 300th anniversary of the first arrival of the german immigrants in philadelphia when they built the colony. there are 60 million german-americans, which is the largest ethnic group for morag grew up, all the way through the

midwest and north dakota and bismarck. i just wanted to say there were a few years back in pennsylvania where i would write letters to the editor and they used to print my letter every year where i recognized the influences of german-americans doing all the many things they invented. some years later they just kind of would no longer print it and it has been forgotten as a holiday because it is a testament to the assimilation of the germans into america where they are so assimilated they are not german anymore. which is what we hope for all people, that they look forward to their posterity and not backward to their ancestry. that holiday has been forgotten but i'm ok with that.

[laughs] i hope we can always be americans first. being german was something you should be a little proud of. or italian, ukrainian, polish americans especially, they are wonderful people and they come from a lot of poverty and hard work in the coal mines. that's all i wanted to say. happy juneteenth. host: let's go to sean calling from oregon. caller: good morning. thanks for having me. you know, i'm going on 60 years old and what i want to say is i don't agree with this. can you hear me? host: yes, go ahead. caller: i grew up in ohio and i

grew up in an african american community. for years it has always been about the blacks -- host: turn your tv down, sean. that is why we are hearing that echo. caller: i have a lot of african-american friends and what i tried to explain to them is, you know, i'm so tired of the slavery thing. nobody says anything about the 15-year-old boys that fought for them, they don't talk about the underground railroad. it was a horrible thing that happened and now we need to

become a community of a free country. where is the holiday for the young 15-year-old boys fighting for the blacks? it gets tired hearing of slavery. it just seems ridiculous to me that this can continue. host: let's go to henry calling from cambria heights, new york. caller: good morning. it is a privilege and honor to be able to talk to you again. i always enjoy talking to you when i call in. what prompted me to call this morning that there seems to be a misunderstanding that this

holiday is just for black people. president biden when he announced it made it clear i thought to everyone that this holiday is for america. it is to celebrate america's coming of age and maturing and getting past the slavery thing. no more slavery in america. i'm originally from texas so i can't really help you with the juneteenth celebrations because my memory as a child, childhood memories, i just have general memories of waking up happy on that morning. my dad would barbecue and the whole neighborhood -- it was a black neighborhood, i grew up in a small town -- it was segregated like most towns by race and everybody went to church with the same people but it was a happy day. the whole neighborhood would

smell like barbecue and there was just a little town on the gulf coast of texas. the older people would talk about the history and my grandmother knew her grandfather, which was a slave from louisiana, that settled texas and he was a rancher and farmer and he raised his family. we prospered in texas having come out of slavery. juneteenth to me is a wonderful day. i'm glad to see it is finally a national holiday. it is for the whole country, not blacks only. it is for caucasians, asians, it is for everyone who calls himself an american. it is the day america grew up and took another leap fulfilling the promise of america that everyone is free, everyone is equal, and that is what i wanted to say. host: during the debate on the federal juneteenth holiday gop

representative james comber came out to the floor to discuss his concerns over making the juneteenth holiday a federal holiday. here is what representative conner had to say. >> remembering and celebrating african-americans in the united states is worthy of commemoration. all americans should celebrate the fights for freedom. it is a fitting tribute to commemorate the day when abraham lincoln's emancipation proclamation was recognized in that state. i planned to vote in favor of this bill that passed unanimously yesterday. however, i would be remiss if i did not discuss the procedure leading up to consideration of this legislation. just a few hours ago the

committee on oversight and reform, which has jurisdiction over federal holidays in the federal workforce, learned this would be taken up today. our committee's job is to ensure the efficient and effective operation of the executive branch agencies. unfortunately, we have not had ample time to consider the effects of granting the entire federal workforce another day off work. we do not know what affect, if any, this will have on federal programs that we deliver to the american taxpayer each day. for instance, due to the rushed process we do not yet have an estimate from the congressional budget office of how much this bill will cost. i know, my friends on the other site have never been concerned about the cost of a government program, but this side and the mickey taxpayers have a concern

about the cost -- and the american taxpayers have a concern about the cost. according to a study it cost federal taxpayers $660 million in holiday premium costs when employees were given an extra holiday on the day after christmas by executive order during the obama administration. regular order but it included a legislative hearing and committee markup. we do not understand the impact of this holiday and the true cost of lost productivity. nevertheless, i thank my colleagues for the time to speak on this historical legislation. host: let's go back to the social media followers and see what they have to say about the significance of the new holiday. this text says, take one holiday often add juneteenth. every holiday costs $818

million. now federal workers get 44 days off. where does this stop? federal employees already get bonuses. another text says can someone explain what these people are talking about? there are no holidays for white folks? christmas and white santa claus, fourth of july for the independence of europeans, and plenty of others that specify europeans in their endeavors. another text says, just what we need, more paid time off for low productivity federal workers. yay! another says the juneteenth holiday should draw attention to how desperately before the people voting rights act needs to be passed. one tweet says, most black folks would rather have seen the john lewis voting rights act passed instead of a juneteenth holiday. let's go back to the phone lines

and talk to harry: from pittsburgh, pennsylvania -- calling from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. caller: why can't we all just be equal? not just black, white situation. it should be all one. i like black people, black people like me, i'm white, but it doesn't matter. we are the same people. we don't have to be separated. i'm tired of it. we are all the same. god created us equal. not black, not white, why can't we do that? host: let's go to eric calling from compton, california. caller: good morning, america. i would like to answer my brother that just spoke about why can't we just celebrated

this as a day for everybody? but i want to take us to the liberty bell. on it is a bible verse and it is called the jubilee bible verse. jubilee, every 50 years we're supposed to celebrate the jubilee for this country. it is a gift from god and we have not done it as a nation. this is why the liberty bell is cracked. juneteenth represents the freedom we were all supposed to have, a gift from god that this country never provided to everybody equally. this gives us the opportunity as a community, as a family, to recognize the past mistakes we made and come together biblically as a country, as a community, as a family. jubilee, is biblically, my brother, a holiday we should've had at the beginning of this country from the revolution.

therefore, jubilee is juneteenth. host: we go to andrea calling from maryland. good morning. caller: good morning. hello. i had some notes i was writing. i was just thinking, people are calling in saying caucasians and the germans should have national holidays or they had them. there were no concerns from what our ancestors endured. we were taken from our homes, our origins, and we were enslaved. we built america. we helped to build it and they have taken so much from us.

what is so hard to accept and realize the pain and suffering they caused? how can whites, caucasians call and say, we don't have a holiday. you caused the pain and suffering and you continue to do so. i believe it is a spiritual warfare. but god has the final say and we have a victory. the last person that just called, the white gentleman, it is true. change has come for good. it is for the good of all. god loves all but the african-americans, he heard our

prayers. we have to get this done for all of us to come together as one. host: we go to omar calling from brooklyn, new york. good morning. caller: good morning, jesse. i just want to say something about people are calling saying there is no holidays for these white people. this has been addressed but joe biden signed this into law, we didn't even ask for that. we are asking for reparations but he signed into law juneteenth. black people in america, we know about juneteenth and we celebrate. this is something we personally know. at the same time those people in texas were gentrified and had to

relocate to other parts of the country. this is how we got spread across the country. that being said, that's not the only reason we want reparations. the government spread money across the germans, the jews to do things for them and black people have to pay taxes through all those years. we pay taxes all those years and they spread the reparations amongst the jews, amongst the asians, amongst everybody even the natives, but we are watching joe biden sign into law juneteenth? while our ancestors pay taxes and when lincoln signed into law the proclamation and he gave us

40 acres and them you will -- and a mule, they took that away. host: we go to tonya calling from albany, new york? are you there? let's go to jennifer calling from burlington, north carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. how you doing? host: just fine. go ahead, jennifer. caller: i grew up in connecticut and to be honest, i had never heard of juneteenth. i had never heard of black wall street. these are all things i learned about when i moved down to north carolina and i think one of the

reasons it is important to have a day like this is to educate people. why do we have juneteenth? this is why we have it and we can explain it to people. i think one of the saddest things our country hasn't done is helped the native americans. they live on reservations still. they live where there is no running water. the president of the united states signed to be the interior secretary a native american. i actually cried because that is

a form of reparation. host: let's go to npr to see what their actual meaning of the word juneteenth is. first things first, juneteenth gets its name from combining june and 19th, the day general granger arrived in galveston, texas bearing a message of freedom for the slaves. upon his arrival he read out general order number 3, informing the residents slavery would no longer be tolerated. all slaves were now free and would henceforth be treated as hired workers if they chose to remain on the plantations, according to the juneteenth website. the people of texas are informed in accordance with the proclamation from the executive of the united states all slaves are free. this involves absolute equality of rights and the rights of properties between former masters and slaves and the

connection here for existing between them is now between employer and hired labor. the order reads in part. that is what juneteenth actually means. it is a combination of june and 19th and that was the day the order was read in galveston, texas. during the wednesday debate over the federal holiday texas representative randy weber, who voted for the measure, explain his point of view and why he thought it should be a holiday. [video clip] >> today the house moves to establish june 19 as the juneteenth national independence day, and national holiday commemorating the end of slavery in the united states. june 19 marks the day union troops arrived in my district in galveston, texas -- i wasn't alive, let me get that out there -- and those troops announced

and enforce the emancipation proclamation. on that day general gordon granger delivered the message of abraham lincoln's proclamation which abolished slavery more than two years before on january 1, 1863. it was the law and it should have been done but we had a ways to go to abolished slavery. we really did. the abolition of slavery was a key milestone toward fulfilling our founders' promise underwritten by the truths of natural law all humans are created equal and should enjoy the same protections under the law. ingrained in texas culture, migrate texas, this special day has already been recognized in 47 of the 50 states and it is long overdue to be recognized as a federal holiday. i have been working on it

several years with my friend sheila jackson lee. the celebration should be rooted in the works of repair we have done and still need to do and we will continue to do, lord willing, as a country that endured racial tension which has tried to divide our people. let it not be so. as abraham quoted the bible he said, "a house divided against itself cannot stand." our country can and should, and lord, i will say will unite, beyond the divisions we have faced and this is a long way toward that. the forces that tried to divide our nation will not prevail as we stand firm in our identity as americans. we are a people refined through the trials of fire and made stronger and stronger than ever. juneteenth reminds us of the freedoms so bravely defended by

many americans and it encourages us to remain steadfast in the good fight against division and it also reminds us we have a ways to go. a house divided cannot stand. that is absolutely true. but a house that is united is unshakable. this is a step toward that unification. host: let's go back to the social media followers and see what they about the significance of the juneteenth federal holiday. here's a tweet that says, this juneteenth thing is a smoke designed to divert african-american attention away from the fact the democrats have done nothing to stop police from lynching us. another text says, the constitution did not enslave -- end slavery. another text says, juneteenth

recognizes america's contribution to the world. slavery was worldwide. it's over. we can be proud. another tweet that says, juneteenth, also known as freedom day, liberation day, or emancipation day, celebrates the end of enslaved people of african descent, primarily in the states of the former confederacy. but it is also significant to the legal history of this country. another text says, juneteenth is awesome. freedom is what we americans are about. let's enjoy freedom together. show respect, give thanks, and be kind to each other. abraham lincoln was forward thinking. let's go to our phone lines and talk to tony calling from arlington, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning and happy juneteenth, jesse. i just wanted to call to say i think that the holiday is

significant, specifically it is something going to be acknowledged and a reminder each year in remembrance of those who were enslaved, however, i do think there is more things that need to be done, like reparations for the descendants of those who were enslaved in america, specifically african-americans. i would just quickly like to say to all of those people whining and self-loathing about why isn't there more acknowledgment of holidays for caucasians, white people, it is not always about you. it's ok to celebrate black people. it is ok to celebrate the end of slavery. you are all about freedom for americans, you should be happy and proud of juneteenth. host: let's go to betty calling

from florida. good morning. caller: good morning. i am 89 years old. this is it. juneteenth is ok but i'm always thinking about -- i'm a black american. i don't say african-american because we did not come to this country. when abraham lincoln freed the slaves, no leaders said anything about what he said. they were supposed to have a mule and 40 acres of land. they paid the indians off. we haven't gotten nothing yet. juneteenth is ok but they said everybody was supposed to be free.

prisoners were locked up for think they'd had never done. juneteenth to me is to free these prisoners so they can live productive lives and keep the united states social so we don't have to go through this injustice. host: let's go to jim calling from chicago, illinois. good morning. caller: hello. how are you today? host: go ahead, jim. caller: couple of quick points i wanted to make. texas was in rebellion. texas did not accept the outcome of the civil war so when the union soldiers appeared they were basically there to tell them texas, you need to comply or else. so i hear too many people texas didn't know. texas decided not to agree with the outcome of the civil war.

the other point i wanted to make was that thanks to george floyd, breonna taylor and others who tragically lost their lives, because i feel without than this holiday would not have become a national holiday. lastly i wanted to mention st. patrick's day. st. patrick's day is a huge holiday honoring irish-americans. many whites who came to this country came willing to drop their culture, forget their language, and become anglocized. you cannot have it both ways. host: alexandra is calling from spokane, washington. caller: good morning. i'm calling to say i think this is a very significant that they passed this recognition of juneteenth as a holiday because

it has created all the conversation we are having about it. it is part of the bringing awareness to people who chose to be ignorant of the damage that we have done to african-americans through slavery and through all the other forms of insidious slavery. hence, the emancipation proclamation. and i do believe a lot of the people in this country would just put themselves in african-american's shoes and think about if it was their great-grandparents who were owned by white people, if it was their parents who grew up hearing the stories of what they went through as children, hearing the stories of what their grandparents went through, that we would feel a lot different about it. we wouldn't be so resentful.

we would actually gain an understanding of why this still needs to be talked about. host: let's go to mike calling from laguna woods, california. caller: good morning, c-span. it strikes me that drug prohibition is a foolish replay of alcohol prohibition. they were americans and italian and irish origins. the targets of drug prohibition are black and brown americans. host: i hear you are saying that we are talking about juneteenth. do you have anything on that? caller: i do. it is symbolism. i want concrete policy reform. thank you. host: let's go to chris calling from palm harbor, florida.

good morning. caller: how are you doing? the whole juneteenth thing is ridiculously stupid and not because a holiday should be granted. if it is june 19 make it june 19. but the emancipation proclamation did not grant freedom to any slaves. it was the north saying the southern states could not have slaves anymore. it is a ridiculous hand show. just make a holiday for the day and say, this day will be emancipation day but this is ridiculous. it's crazy. host: thanks to all the callers

who called in for that segment. coming up next we are joined by john wood, jr. who is the national ambassador for the group braver angels. we will talk about that group's work to bridge the political divide in this country and later on the weekly spotlight on magazines features politico contributing editor derek robertson and his piece on cancel culture. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪ announcer: today on the communicators, antitrust and competition policy in digital technology markets. >> we are off the charts in terms of where we have been the last 40 years in terms of competition policy and monopoly. in the last few we have had five antitrust lawsuits against google and facebook. we have all kinds of actions against amazon.

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host: tell us about what braver angels is. what is the group's mission, when was it founded, why does it exist? guest: it is america's largest bipartisan grassroots organization dedicated to political depolarization. by that i mean revising the communal spirit of the american democracy. braver angels came into being in the aftermath of the 2016 election. that is when we had our first activity. the founders of the organization brought together a group of folks who voted for donald trump and voted for hillary clinton in a town in ohio where you had a

50/50 split in the boat outcome and where polarization was high -- in the vote outcome and where polarization was i, to go through a series of exercises. to see if it was possible to take these folks who were on the razors edge of severing relationships with each other, representing similar folks who were polarized, to see if they could not find common ground and restore some sense of trust and friendship as americans and as neighbors. this initial three day workshop based on the principles of marriage counseling was a tremendous success. it managed to transform these folks' views and understanding of each other and why they felt the way they did, even if they disagreed on the issues. after that, we were called

better angels at the time. the group took the show on the road, going into 2017, the spring and the summer, better angels formed officially as an organization and lodged a bus tour that crossed a number of eastern and southern states. npr picked it up and did a story , word-of-mouth spread and suddenly folks from local communities who were experiencing breakdowns of relationship in families and local school districts, etc. it -- they called on us like a fire department to put out fires of polarization that were across the country. i came to the organization as a volunteer in the autumn of 2017 and in the spring of 2018. since then, we have built an organization that is getting closer to 20,000 paid members

across the country, getting close to 80 local braver angels alliances. these are bipartisan chapters of local braver angels groups that are powered to multiply the workshops and models of braver angels. even in some cases, to potentially collaborate issues of local communities of concern. we have a podcast which reaches a wider audience. we have been able to treat a national civic community, if you will, that is left, right, center, republican, democrat, not to mention libertarian and green and everything in between -- green party and everything in between. as much as we have an earnest obligation to speak up for the things we believe in politically , the long-term success of

american democracy hinges not only on who we elect but on our ability to maintain relationship and trust with one another as americans, as people come in our communities and institutions. if there is no trust between the american people, there is no motivation for us to operate our government, our institutions in ways that seeks to benefit the common good. we use the rules of society to undermine -- we will use the rules of society to undermine each other and use politics to deceive each other, but not advance common understanding of what america is and ought to be. restoring those bonds of trust between the american people is what the work of braver angels is all about. host: we spent the first hour talking about the new federal holiday, juneteenth. can you talk about what juneteenth means to you. guest: absolutely.

it is an interesting thing because juneteenth is a holiday -- i have been aware of it since early in my life. it is in a older tradition that goes back to just about the immediate aftermath of the civil war. word reached galveston, texas following the surrender of lee at appomattox late. the younger -- the union general arrived and edited a texas about 2.5 months after lee surrendered because texas were geographically removed from the conflict and was not a significant theater for conflict and for union presence during the war. lee came any freedom that was already legally granted by the

emancipation proclamation was enforceable again, albeit after a bit of a delay, for black slaves in texas. so i'm juneteenth, also known as june -- known as jubilation day, became a data celebration for blacks in texas. but blacks -- became a day of celebration for blacks in texas. but blacks in texas moved to other areas of the south. i grew up in los angeles and so did my wife who did celebrate juneteenth in church largely because many of her relatives were from texas and other parts of the self. if you look -- parts of the south. if you look at juneteenth, juneteenth spreads in terms of the diameter of its practice as

civil rights movements pick up steam in american history, as blacks spread across the country and take their traditions with them from the south, and as the african-american experience continues to be characterized by this sense that the dream of freedom is the dream deferred. dr. king says a dream deferred is a dream denied. part of what is with understanding about the spirit of juneteenth is that it is a recognition of the fact that freedom comes to those who persist in the efficacy, for the realization of equal rights and liberties that are guaranteed to us under the constitution. in this moment were so many americans and so many african-americans feel as though

we are still taking strides to live up to the full promise of the declaration of independence, the full promise of an authentic american dream of equal rights and equal liberties for all people, that legacy of perseverance in the name of freedom still applies to this day. juneteenth arises as part of a larger national awakening to the history that has led us to this moment. for all of its challenges but for all of its promises well -- promises as well. juneteenth is a significant landmark of celebration and a raising of historical and cultural awareness. in african-american communities but all of america, as well. host: let's get into your

organization's work trying to heal the divide -- the political divide. viewers can call and take part in this segment. republicans can call 202-748-8001. democrats can call 202-748-8001 --202-748-8000. independents, 202-748-8002. you can always text us at 202-748-8003. we are always reading on social media and twitter at @cspanwj and on facebook. this week is the national week of conversation. first of all, tell us exactly what the national league of conversation is -- the national week of conversation is and what is the goal. guest: a national week of conversation is a weeklong series of events put on by a

wide range of partners and organizations from within the building space. groups like living room conversations and institute for discourse. in america, you have hundreds of thousands of folks from the world of journalism, politics, and p -- and philanthropy who are setting the stage and context for the american people to come together and have the conversations that can allow us to restore our understanding of one another's motivations, to restore the fabric of trust that exists between the american people, and to rebuild patriotic empathy which is a phrase we use. it means that your love for your country is demonstrated by the concerns you bear for your fellow american.

groups like the national conversations project and many other folks have come together to advertise this week, this union again. to create a space in the national consciousness in this moment where we are still struggling from national division recently to give folks the opportunity to know one another again, simply put. the national week of conversation is a movement of similar efforts by partners to give folks watching today the opportunity to engage one another in conversation across the political divide so we might remind ourselves what we have in common. host: if you want to take part,

how can our viewers do that? guest: go to americatalks.us/ nationalweekofconversation. you will see a list of events. you have the opportunity to plug into the larger movement if you are interested on taking on this kind of work as a volunteer. that is something you can do by getting -- by checking out our organization at bra verangels.org. you can always google national week of conversation and you will see coverage of it in usa today and all kinds of publications. host: you had an editorial in usa today called "america talks,

what we can learn from king and reagan about bridging our patriotic divide." define for us what patriotic divide means. what do you mean by that? guest: although it may sound cliche to say, at the end of the day i believe that the american people love their country and love each other for that matter. even though it is on the basis of party affiliation, we have come to distrust each other more than we have previously. by patriotic divide, i mean this is a divide between patriots on some level. i know a lot of people are to sneeze at that. the other side doesn't love america or the other side loves america and a generalist tick, self-righteous way that shows no compassion for many of america's people.

i take the examples of dr. king and ronald reagan. i make the point in the essay simply that these are two men whose politics were opposed and had no relationship with each other directly while beach was still living. martin luther king jr., who was the foremost leader of the civil rights movement, pushed forward a program of political reform that the conservative wing, the republican party at the time as it was represented by folks like barry goldwater, was supposed to. ronald reagan, who gave his initial nationally recognized and celebrated address at the republican convention. folks like goldwater and reagan opposed the reforms dr. form --

dr. king was putting forward. ronald reagan as president would ultimately sign martin luther king jr. holiday into law. on the anniversaries of dr. king's birthday, of the holiday in 1987, president reagan makes the point that dr. king in exhibit a fine something terroristic of the american struggle for freedom and equality, that one man driven by conscience can change the country, said that though many americans disagree with dr. king in his time, that over the course of time dr. king had proven to be right.

it -- it seems to me that reagan might have been reflecting on his own sentiments. that is precisely the point. the point is that as americans, and i consider myself to be a philosophical student of after king's philosophy of nonviolence. the important thing about that perspective is that it makes the claim that love is a social value that can be applied to social questions. it is instead a spiritual value that can be applied to social questions. dr. king thought of agape love as being goodwill. we will in politics and activism set the stage for us to be able to put forward our claims for justice, our claims for argus in a way that gives us the chance -- that that we are in

disagreement, speak the truth in a way that advances our position. we do so not to humiliate the opponent, but to earn his friendship so we might be reconciled to one another in the blood of community, to borrow dr. king's community -- dr. king's words. dr. king is in some sense example of the crossing of the patriotic divide. two men who deeply loved america , deeply schools and informed about the values of the american founding and different politics. nevertheless, in this sort of historical coming full circle, arriving at a place, dr. king, where he would be able -- arriving at a place where he

would be able to recognize the moral truth of dr. king's political claims. the king legacy ends up being that he was left lobe leaning -- was left being left-leaning. ronald reagan would have testified -- this patriotic divide can be crossed by people who love their country left and right and who are willing to love each other in this bigger way through a spirit of goodwill. that is what i mean by crossing the patriotic divide. host: let's let callers get involved. starting with brett calling on the republican line from des moines, iowa. caller: good morning. host: go ahead. caller: i think john is right on target, god bless him.

i think the push for more reparations, people have been treated wrong. host: go ahead and respond, john . guest: i think i heard him say we need to push for more reparations. i take w-2 part, absolutely -- i take that view to heart, absolutely. to put that in context of the larger issues facing american society, part of the challenge we have -- and you see this around the political dialogue surrounding the juneteenth holiday. on one hand, i think there is some broadly shared recognition in american society that says historically speaking that you

have a daunting legacy of oppression and disenfranchisement and marginalization that has been on the african-american community. we agree on that. the divide comes stronger when you speak in contemporary terms. the way society is set up still causes problems for the advancement of african-americans. therefore there is a strong moral case to be made for reparations. but many people feel that the conversation over reparations and some of the symbolism by which we try to ignite the conversation over race in america glosses over the fact that so much project -- so much progress has been made and that

racism is used to defy the people -- used to divide people but not necessarily steer us towards the practical source of approaches to policy that might solve albums on the ground in a way that can be shown to be the benefit of the most disenfranchised but also americans in general. in that context, it is hard to imagine something like reparations being able to achieve broad support beyond perhaps a strong base in the democratic party. at the same time, brett is a republican and you have folks from across the aisle who break the mold all the time. it is possible that could change. host: let's talk to michael who is calling from florida on the democratic line.

michael, good morning. caller: wonderful work both of you are doing. i have two things. one, i think there is a cancer in both parties when i listen to the think takes -- think tanks. they have a view of evolution on both sides -- evolutionary competition and that is leading to outcomes. evolution is not lead to -- outcomes. it is leading to a eugenic bias where we talk about a level playing field, our reason for wanting a level playing field is so that competition can occur. that is one issue when you are trying to bring polarized parties together. number two, we have this black-white, on-off perspective which is pathological.

the science is it is more like a socially -- more like a slushy. parties are an external prediction of our internal biology. sociology is a competition between self interest and group interest. we see our parties, our nations, they align along this same thing. it is called dual brain psychology. the reason this is important is it offers a new way to do exactly what you are doing. instead of saying we need to come together, the reason these differences are there is because they are healthy. we want someone to be fast reacting to danger, not -- there are evolutionary reasons for this. you don't want to say -- you need to react quickly. we have developed a natural response to this and we had the ability to track this and say

you are not aligned with your natural dialogical protective, quick reacting instincts. as a democratic party, you are or are not aligned. we can rate them not on how they are aligned as parties but how the different groups, nations, parties, religions aligned to our natural projections with that interim dynamic. host: go ahead and respond there, john. guest: i appreciate the caller's scientific and evolutionary perspective. that is difficult language to transport into mainstream political and civic engagement, but nevertheless i take the understanding of the point to heart. there is a natural but constructive tension between

individual self interest larger collective self-interest. this gets typed to the relationship that we have with the groups we identify with. part of what makes polarization so incredibly sticky in our own time, right now, is the fact that partisan identification has become such a deeply rooted part of our personal identity. if you go back to the aftermath of world war ii and americans that served together in theaters across europe and across oceans, everybody knew what the number one song was on the pop charts and to the world was. i don't want to be overly nostalgic for a golden age, this was a time when social and

political distant -- disenfranchisement for many americans was at a level of explicit and broad-based institutional reality. you can only take the political unity at that time with a grain of salt because it was somewhat underwritten by the fact that two parties were in agreement to some degree. democrats in the south, factions of the republican party were in agreement that the status quo needed to be maintained. nevertheless, among the american people, broadly speaking, you look at polls there is significant data that whereas once upon a time american parents would be concerned if their children married outside

of their religious faith but would not care if their son or daughter was a democrat married to a republican or vice versa. that is not the case today. we judge each other on the case of our party affiliation and a striking manner. -- in an striking manner. it makes discourse on main street and negotiations on capitol hill exiting the difficult and exceedingly pointless for folks. that is the sort of issue we are seeking to engage, in part by giving people the opportunity to before j shared american identity again on the basis of these things we have in common. the evolution of the human creature, you can draw upon some qualities of human nature to support that effort.

we don't have to abandon our self interests in order to advocate for what is good for the country as awe have to see n the context of the larger dialectic that sustains democracy. host: we have a lot of callers getting in on this conversation. i want to read to you two tweets, two comments from social media. how is it possible to heal our political divide? the first one says, "i thinkable the harder to heal the divide. how can you come from is abortion, free-speech, family life, transgender issues, religious freedom, massive government control? our division is wider than it was even 15 years ago." a second says, "how do we bridge the gap between those that are still flying the confederate flag or beating capitol police

officers to try to stop our national election results? how do you address these realities with reason when they are way past reality or truth?" two different political ideas. how do you get those people together to talk? guest: one thing is skepticism that we could be united, right? it's important to take greater angels in the message i am giving you folks and my fellow americans here. part of that context is the response to the first point, the first tweet. yes, issues like abortion and the role of government and many other things appear to be grossly intractable in our modern-day. the fact is that you can go through the whole history of american democratic society and

find questions that in their time, prohibition or segregation or whether the american people should or should not get involved in certain military conflicts, abortion itself of course out of the 1960's. these are issues that all appear to be resistant to compromise and consensus. they always are until they are no longer. that is point number one. point number two. to the second caller's point -- the second follower's point, how to reconcile ourselves to the folks who stormed the capitol. i should say about the work of braver angels that we really strive to create a space for the american people to meet each other where they are.

the folks who come to our events are often times folks who recognize the importance of at least trying to make themselves available to these conversations. two, folks are polarized. they don't want to have anything to do with the other side of the aisle, but they might get pulled into the door by a friend or relative or neighbor who says this is something you need to do. the experience seems to be impactful for everyone involved. we don't necessarily start by going out to the edges. there is plenty of polarization that exists between the vast majority of americans who have never contemplated political violence. such that there is tremendous good to be done. even in the case of the folks who stormed the capitol and folks who may have committed violent and protests and

demonstrations over the summer, recognizing the fact each of these represents a very distinct minority in the larger context of the partisan tribes we tend to lump them in with. there is a story to be told that accounts for the grievances and frustrations and social despair and desperation that many americans feel that radicalizing some americans. of course it's exploited by some cynical put a collectors out there and our politics. it is not to absolve anybody of responsibility for the things they do. it is to say it is worth it for us to begin to understand the stories of our fellow americans. such that we can have some understanding of what drives people to do the things that they do and believe the things they believe so we can more adequately communicate with one

another and be in a relationship with one another and humanize each other so folks don't get to these places of desperation. that is a project worth committing to. it is the work of braver angels. host: we have a lot of callers with question. let's start with john from watertown, connecticut on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. how is everybody doing? i have been listening to c-span for a long time. i have heard a lot of things. like abraham lincoln said, a house divided cannot stand. i think the key is sitting right in front of us. if we obey almighty god's 10 commandments, this would all not be happening. it is nice to see we have a man here coming to their senses. god bless you both and have a great day. take care of yourselves.

guest: god bless the caller. i would make the point that i do think that there is a serious role in communities of faith, for the church, synagogues, mosques, and for communities of faith to really take the lead, i think, and building the bridge is to allow us to connect with one another as americans such that whether you take this literally or metaphorically that we remember each of us is made in the image of god. i think a part of the breakdown in our ability to cohere as a society, granted the fact there was never a golden age for this was done perfectly. of people is a part of every generation -- of people -- upheaval is a part of every generation. it lies in the fact that the american christian church in particular has arrived at a

place where we cultivate a great deal of community and activity within the four walls of the church but don't necessarily take the grace of the holy spirit out into our political and social conversations such that we invite our fellow americans, whether they share our religious faith or not, into some sort of fellowship of democracy. wherein we demonstrate goodwill that exceeds the significance of our political differences in context of our political conversations. that was the legacy of martin luther king jr., who very much rooted the nonviolent movement in the black church in the south. worked with people of all faith, colors, denominations, and non-christian religions as well. people with no religion. demonstrating again the power of love as a social value, which

for dr. king echoed from the gospels. it echoed from the spirit of sacrifice as example five by jesus on the cross -- exam fight -- examplified by jesus on the cross. there is no greater love than he who lays down his life for a friend. the spirit of our politics -- i don't think it requires anybody be religious in any conventional sense. this deep-seated spiritual gift of being able to love and show goodwill to another regardless of whether or not they initially show that same charity towards you or it's reciprocated immediately, that is a deep power that again can be applied to the culture of our politics. both on the level of local american society, as well as on

the level of government itself. i will stipulate that i think there is a serious way in which the problems facing our democracy has to come from the demand level up. influential politicians have a role to play. it will be up to the people. i encourage the church and all the people watching us right now who are part of their church and faith-based community to think about how they can get involved with organizations like ours, the national league of conversation, so we can get the church up and moving when it comes to restoring the bridges that exist between the american people. rest assured, make no mistake, if we fail to do that, regardless of what political party is in power in 2020, 2024 or 2028, we will not leave a better democracy for our children. we will fail to do that. the need to do so and make sure

we establish the relationships between one another that allow for democracy to progress in a more inclusive way for all americans is an imperative of now. i hope the church response to the call. host: vicky is calling from bradenton, florida, democratic line. good morning. caller: good morning and amen to what you just said about bringing the church and focusing on our lord jesus christ. number two is that our particular premise of this political spectrum i believe is either you choose to hate or you choose to love. sometimes what happens is in any room people walk in they have this notion of either they want to help our country or they want to destroy our country. when i first wanted to call, i wanted to say in the last 50 years we are more a blended

country than ever before. our communities are blended. my family is blended. we are happy. my community is happy. we don't see the rest of the things happening around the world and around our country. my question was that i wanted to ask, do you ever survey the blended families out there that have mixed races in their family that are working, loving, caring families that have worked this out? that is my question, because if they can work it out, why can't our political leaders? stop having their own agenda and represent their constituents. that is why they are sent to be there. host: go ahead and respond, john. guest: great question. i appreciate the call. we have never conducted a survey

like that. it's a brilliant idea. it speaks to me. i myself am a product of precisely such a family. i come from a family that is multicultural. i have cousins that are brazilians, mexicans. my mother is black. my father is white. my mother is from south-central los angeles. my father is from tennessee. i mother voted for joe biden. my father voted for donald trump. my parents did not stick together, nevertheless there's is a real love and understanding in my family. i have black and white members of my family who voted republican or democrat on each side. yet each of them is a part of my family.

i myself am the product of each of them as an american. it is the testimony to precisely the blended nature of our melting pot society that vicki was referring to. it is something worth studying. blended families frequently have just as much in the way of internal discord as other families do, but there is perhaps a certain obligation that comes with being willing to go the extra mile in transcending some of the cultural differences that get brought into the context of mixed race marriages and marriages and families that are the product of very different ideological starting point in the context of where we come from culturally and american society, even if we are the same ethnicity. it is a rich area of potential study. i appreciate the caller for bringing that to mind.

host: nelson from ohio on the republican line. good morning. caller: good morning. i agree with the last caller, the democrat caller. she is exactly right. i live in rural ohio. there is black, white, liberals, conservatives. we are blended. we all get along fine. we are not at each other's throats. i guarantee you, you take 10 debra katz, 10 republicans and we sit around the table, we can sit and agree on 95% of the issues. it is not like abortion or the harder stuff. no. it might take another generation to fix that, but 95% of the issues we can come to an agreement on. it's a very simple fix for what

the problem is. the media. that is the problem. i am 48 years old. i started getting into politics when i was 20 years old. from 20 for the last 20 years i follow politics on television. radio, internet, all that. just look at tv. every town is liberal. your late-night talk shows, liberal. your sunday morning politics shows, three liberals and one conservative. the host is liberal. the unfairness is unbelievable. you fix that. you fix the media, you fix the problem. host: is the media the problem? guest: i resonate with the

spirit of the caller. the media is a big part of the problem, present company excluded of course, mr. holland. i think there is a structural dynamic in place in american society. my father is fond of saying that back in the heyday of the civil rights movement, those years will be looked back on and we were moving forward that it was good music playing on the radio. folks listened to sam cooke and frank sinatra, not being -- you move forward in time to the cable media, talk radio, and then in our own time social media and so forth represent the advent of the polarization industry. even if you have well-meaning journalists and anchors and reporters doing the good work of informing the american people, there is a business model at play that relies on the

polarization of americans in order to sustain itself. this is the problem. it means it creates something of a false picture in terms of how divided we are. in creating that false picture, it makes it true. i don't want to undersell the fact our differences are real and deep. there is a long overdetermined reality. it is not just cnn or fox news. that is a significant part of it. we need to change the story we tell one another about who we are as americans and what we could be together. rather than remaining involved in the polarizing -- that would suggest falsely we cannot be reconciled. we can if we make the decision to be so by understanding one another's story.

people who want the best for the children and grandchildren who will inherent -- inherit this country together. we can begin to tell that story by exercising the means at our disposal to do so. that is what we do it braver angels. host: we would like to thank john wood junior, ambassador for braver angels were being here and talking about how we can reduce political polarization. thank you so much. guest: thank you, mr. holland. host: coming up next, more of your phone calls. we will talk again about the significance of the juneteenth federal holiday. you see the numbers on the screen. we will see you back here with your calls in just a moment. we will be right back. ♪ >> book tv on c-span2 has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on

afterward, exposing the establishment media's hidden deals and secret corruption. alex marlowe explores mainstream medias'credibility. he is interviewed by reason magazine editor at large matt welch. sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern, in her book "the second: race handguns in america," professor carol anderson explores the second amendment and argues it was designed in a way that denies rights to african-americans. sunday at 11:00 p.m. eastern, a look at the impact of john glenn's earth orbit mission in 1962 on the space race with jeff sessial and his book "mercury rising." that's this weekend on c-span2. ♪

>> washington journal continued. host: we are back and we want to know what you think about the significance of the new juneteenth federal holiday. president biden signed into law juneteenth earlier this week at the white house at the urging of lawmakers from both sides of the aisle. we want to bring to you a little bit about what juneteenth is from a story from the associated

press. it commemorates june 19, 1865, when union soldiers brought the news of freedom to black people in galveston, texas, two months after confederacy surrendered. two point five years after the emancipation proclamation freed slaves in the southern states. it is the first new federal holiday since martin luther king day was created in 1983. president biden came up before he signed it into law and talked about what he saw as the significance of juneteenth. here is what president biden had to say. [video] pres. biden: it marks the sixth anniversary of the tragic deaths in south carolina. the killer, motivated by hate, intending to start a race war in south carolina. he joined his victims in a bible study class, then he took their lives in the house of worship. it's a reminder that our work to

root out hate never ends, because hate only hides. and never fully goes away. it hides. when you breathe oxygen under that rock, it comes out. that is what we must understand that juneteenth represent. not only the commemoration of the end of slavery more than 150 years ago, but the ongoing work to bring true equity and racial justice to american society, which we can do. in short, this day this not just celebrate the past. it calls for action today. i wish all americans a happy juneteenth. host: some people are questioning why juneteenth is being celebrated and not the other days in which african-americans found out slavery was over. for example, may 8 in

mississippi or emancipation date in washington, d.c. the washington post has a story about this. here is what they say. "why celebrate something that happened in a single state? why not december 18, the day in 1865 with the 13th them, was proclaimed and the last enslaved people in the u.s. for free? for january 1, the day in 1863 lincoln made his momentous proclamation, setting a course for the nation for which it could not retreat. why juneteenth? not only because all the major currents of american history flow-through texas, but as black texans moved across the country they brought their day of jubilation with them. embracing that moment has become a fitting way to mark the end of a war fought to preserve slavery. we want to know what youth see as the significance of the new

juneteenth federal holiday. let's start with aaron from alexandria, virginia. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you, sir? i believe the significance is it's an acknowledgment without acknowledgment of certain historical facts. there will be no recognition of it or acceptance or appreciation of what has transpired in the century. one thing i want to point out is we have a long way to go. we have a long way as far as legislation being passed. there was an anti-asian hate legislation that was passed. we suffered at the hands of this country in many ways where there is no real legislation. the holiday is great. it's a good step. it promotes awareness. we have so far to go. i'm driving on the 495 right now. there was a sign hanging over the highway that said it is ok

to be white. even on juneteenth there are people that still feel threatened by the fact that slaves were freed. some people did not know they were free and were held by their owners even after the civil war was over. recognition is good. we still have work to do. host: martha also calling from alexandria, virginia. good morning. caller: hi. people were saying where is the caucasian holiday? i can recall the big marches down the street on columbus day and the italian americans celebrating and having a good time. that's a federal holiday. saint patrick is widely recognized. cinco de mayo has been taken over by commercialism. it's a day supposedly to celebrate the mexicans, but i digress. i'm from massachusetts. i did not hear much about this juneteenth until i moved to the d.c. area where it is

celebrated. i think one of the reasons is important to be celebrated is so children know the heritage and history of everybody. hours have been capped out for such a long time that it is great we are talking about it. even though it is a painful past but we do recognize it as a holiday. the last thing i want to say is this is as close as we will get to a fourth of july or everybody is free, so to speak. if you were a slave in the north, you weren't. it comes close to being a fourth of july type thing for everybody. on the fourth of july our ancestors were serving the master and doing the kate walked to entertain them -- cakewalk to entertain them. host: some are arguing there should have been a holiday

distillery the 13th amendment. that is the argument in an editorial from the daily news, who argues instead of juneteenth we should be celebrating the 13th amendment. here is what they say. "the amendment was the post-civil war statute that abolished slavery in the country once and for all. it acted in december of 1865. it embedded the freedom of 4 million americans in the highest law of the land. it was applauded around the world as an example of the promise of american democracy. juneteenth is a relative footnote in the african-american experience, the story of the last black folks to learn the slavery was over. they were unaware of events unfolding in the east. they were informed about the end of the war and the executive order of emancipation by the union army. this occurred on june 19, 1865.

people broke out in jubilation. nice moment, but the full story is more instructive about the american experience and worthy of a federal holiday." the daily news saying they should have made a 13th of, and holiday instead of -- 13th amendment holiday instead of juneteenth. carol from silver spring, maryland. caller: how are you doing? great discussion. the first thing i want to say is that i think we need to all understand there is no such biological thing as race amongst human beings. we are all human beings. it has been proven over and over again through dna and our relationships with other human beings that race is a social construct. it is a social construct that has been perpetrated to key

people in whatever place it is that people want them to be. it continues to this day. we have racism but we do not have race as human beings. that was the first thing. i think if we keep that in mind, we can easily come together and understand -- i am perceived caucasian. i'm an italian american. i think we can all -- we could all understand the hurt and pain that has been caused, and also start to heal. i think that is the first thing. i have done community work most of my adult life. around 20 years ago, i worked with youth in madison,

wisconsin. we took busloads of kids to the juneteenth celebration in milwaukee. there have been juneteenth celebrations all over the country. milwaukee, wisconsin, at that time, had one of the best and biggest and most well-known. finally, i have celebrated juneteenth with a group called the center for the healing of racism in houston, texas. they have had a juneteenth celebration for 30 odd years. there's is coming up this year. if you google it, you will learn a lot. host: mike calling from stratford, connecticut. good morning. caller: how are you doing? i am a caucasian. i believe that it is worthy of being mentioned but not made a national holiday.

if you have a scab, you don't keep tearing it off. congresswoman jackson lee standing in front of congress with a slave with whelps from being whipped, that is tearing off the scab. it should be mentioned but not made a national holiday. it was a horrible thing. why don't they celebrate positive things for black americans? the day they passed affirmative action, right? that's a positive thing. this holiday is designed to separate people. house divided cannot stand, as abraham lincoln said. that is the truth. host: let's talk to patricia calling from belmont, alabama. good morning. caller: good morning. yes, we have always celebrated juneteenth in selma, alabama. we have always called it the celebration of the july -- the

jubilee celebration. host: diane from midway, georgia. good morning. caller: good morning to you. i do not have a problem at all with juneteenth becoming a holiday, because it is recognized in almost all the states already. what i see it doing -- i don't see it's going to bring more unity to the country necessarily, but it addresses the fact that the emancipation proclamation freed the slaves in the southern states, although most of the slaves were in the south there were slaves who had migrated to other states. this frees all the slaves. i see that as a very good purpose of it, whether it is needed as a federal holiday or not.

i don't know but i don't have a problem with it. host: cheryl calling from mendocino, california. caller: thank you for taking my call. i really want to respond to the gentleman that called in that said that he does not understand why it has to be a holiday. the thing is until you tell history and tell it correctly, you know, it leaves you in the situation this country has -- is in now. divided. then making this a national holiday is a wonderful thing because it gives people an opportunity to come out, to celebrate something that black people celebrate, and to learn

about our culture, learn about diversity. it takes that question out of who we are. the other thing i would like to say is that americans need to realize how rich it really is. diversity is a gift that god has given america. when we recognize that we will be better off for it. thank you so much for taking my call. host: a caller brought up the number of states that recognize juneteenth. here is the story from the hill newspaper that talks about that very issue. only six states, texas, massachusetts, new york, virginia, washington and oregon have made juneteenth an official state holiday, meaning state workers get a paid day off. that group is likely to grow in

the coming years now that congress has approved a paid holiday for federal workers. only one state, south dakota, does not recognize juneteenth as either a state holiday or day of observance. even there the legislators are pushing to add the half state to the list of celebrations. let's go back to the phone lines and talk to joel from seattle, washington. good morning. caller: good morning. thanks are taking my call. i appreciate this conversation. i am and one of the states that does recognize juneteenth as a holiday for state workers. i am happy the federal government has chosen to recognize juneteenth as well on a national level. my comment is more about understanding the significance of it. all holidays, regardless of its juneteenth, memorial day, forces us to reflect upon the values we

have been part of and the culture we are part of. i think one of the things we don't have is this trite way of treating holidays as it's another holiday, day off. a holiday is more time to reflect and a time to understand each other. whether it is juneteenth or the day of the ratification of the 13th amendment, i'm glad it is juneteenth. it is a significant moment. the bigger point is that it's part of a greater narrative that forces us to stop and pause and think and appreciate what we have with each other, with the african-american community in this specific case. thank you for taking my call. host: jamie from south carolina. good morning. caller: good morning. i think it's important we continue to recognize juneteenth. it creates a conversation that has not happened in the past.

conversations like this in our community, getting educated is very important to our future. to fill the gaps that have been created throughout time. isaac is very important and i'm happy. host: let's talk to bill from fostoria, new york. good morning. caller: thank you for taking my call. i would like to address the washington post and the new york times articles about why juneteenth. it's been 160 years since the end of slavery. you have plenty have time to make that date a holiday. it's amazing that we don't celebrate one of the defining moments in american history. if you wanted to make it a holiday,, you should have made a holiday. your mother walked miles just for that. we deserve to have it as a holiday. host: frank from new york.

good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. i don't want this to seem bad. i'm 60 years old. i grew up in new york city. i have never heard, not once, of a black family celebrating juneteenth. not one person. now the thing with this democrat thing, here this out. -- hear this out. you have all the people celebrating cinco de mayo. now with this daca stuff, if it becomes a war for all the south americans are free, that's another holiday in the united states. that is why i think it is a joke. i have never heard of anything intelligent coming out of this. every time someone farts, it

will be another holiday? host: danny from wynonna, texas. good morning. caller: good morning to you. how are you? i have always celebrated juneteenth. i was born and raised in texas. however, it was good it was made a national holiday. the symbolism without substance -- black people erode reparations -- are owed reparations. until that is done, as i said, it is just symbolism without substance. host: cy from akron, ohio. good morning. caller: hi. texas is the last of recognize the emancipation proclamation. first in prisoner murder and execution.

first -- one of the worst for voter suppression states. terrible in drought. it is dominated by the oil industry. we need to pray for the exorcism of the state of texas. host: let's go to some of the social media followers and see what they are saying about the significance of the federal juneteenth holiday. here is one tweet that says, "this holiday does not cure redlining come along rejection, medical malpractice, job discrimination, unequal school funds, and jail sentences, air pollution, water pollution, shopping, sleeping, etc. stigmas while black." "without any doubt we must all celebrate freedom as often as possible, especially the freedom for the atrocity of slavery."

a post from facebook says, "another federal paid holiday. just what we needed." "i feel like it is just a reminder that black people were once enslaved." a final post says, "why did it take 165 years to make it a national holiday?" let's go back to the phone lines and talk to rodney from rockaway, new york. good morning. caller: good morning. host: go ahead, rodney. caller: yes. i know that juneteenth is something new to a lot of people. i believe it is very good to be recognized, but joe biden and obama, when they was in office together, they was against reparations. i think juneteenth -- they are giving us juneteenth for reparations. it is symbolism.

host: eddie from hill berry, massachusetts. good morning. caller: good morning. i know we did something for reparations. i thought in the 1960's with the welfare system we gave rent control, food subsidies, ssi, medicaid. look at the repercussions of that. now in some neighborhoods 85% of children born out of wedlock. that's very critical. what kind of reparations would you think would be successful? host: jerry from florida. good morning. caller: good morning? until very recently i did not know what juneteenth was. i do understand it now. i can see where it makes sense.

we have celebrated so many other things. i'm 74 years old and i'm surprised i did not know about it. the other point is with regards to the federal holiday, why is it only federal employees get paid? it should be a holiday for all. thank you. host: coming up, our weekly spotlight on magazine segment features lit echo conserving editor derek robertson and his recent piece on cancel culture. stick with us. we will be right back. ♪ >> american history tv on c-span3 exploring the people and events that tell the american story every weekend. tonight on lectures in history, northeastern university professor william fowler on early atlantic exploration. christopher columbus and the discovery of the caribbean and

the americas by europeans. sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on real america -- reel america "who's out there" exploring the possibility of extraterrestrial life and communication with intelligent civilizations in the universe. sunday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on american artifacts, see a mock world war i trench and a reconstructed german bunker, part of a living history exhibit by the u.s. army heritage and education center in carlisle, pennsylvania. sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern on the presidency, here how first lady's jacqueline kennedy, lady bird johnson and pat nixon worked to preserve the historic nature of the white house. exploring the american story. watch american history tv this weekend on c-span3. ♪ >> dan glickman's autobiography

is entitled "laughing at myself ." former representatives glickman searcher 18 years. a native of wichita, kansas, he went on to serve as president clinton's agriculture secretary from 1995 to 2001. in 2004, he replaced? lente as president and ceo of the motion picture association of america until 2012. we spent some time talking about his interests in humor. >> on this episode of book notes plus. listen at c-span.org/podcasts, over every you get your podcasts. -- or wherever you get your podcast. >> washington journal continues. host: we are back for our spotlight on magazine segment. today we have politico magazine contribute in editor derek

robertson, who is here to talk about his article, "however thing became cancel culture." good morning. guest: good morning, jesse. host: in your article you refer to representative liz cheney and her removal from republican leadership for her position on the last presidential election. many people say that representative cheney was canceled. is that an accurate assessment? guest: sort of. i used her as a jumping off point. i noticed more people in the republican party preferred -- critics referred to her as cancel culture. it seems slightly absurd on its face. the idea of somebody going against the mainstream of her party was punished through

normal party mechanisms for doing so. it seems like such as social phenomena. what those critics did get right is cancel culture can pop up anywhere. it is not just a tool through which progressive social norms are enforced. it was not upset with conservatives. it's a nonideological condition that can start up anywhere. host: do us a favor. define exactly what you think cancel culture is, or what being canceled is in our current society. guest: i think cancel culture is a phenomenon that exists. it is usually driven by social media when a large group of people sort of bypass traditional accountability, institutional gatekeeping or practices and harass a person or

institution on the terms of the social media mob, not by the institution. host: where are winded this idea of being canceled or cancel culture begin? guest: i wrote how some of the earliest examples of it -- it's a far cry from someone being removed from house leadership. a woman named justine sacko made a joke about aids in the early 2010 s -- 2010s. when she was on a plane she got canceled. the mob mobilized against her. she was fired when the plane landed.

it was in a book about being publicly shamed. over the course of the past decade it went from being this phenomenon through which public shaming against an individual is not necessarily a phenomenon, but he graduated -- he graduated into an instance of public shaming. host: does it solely exist because of social media or does it predate the use of twitter and facebook and instagram and all these other social media networks? guest: that's a good question. it is something i thought about a lot. i think it does predate social media so much as -- it is something that groups have always done. the difference now that social

media has eroded barriers between groups. it sort of flattened the accountability or institutional structure of those groups to where you were not necessarily having deliberations or the kind of countdown hearing you would have -- top down here you have a judgment. i think that what we know now is very much social media, where social media fervor takes the reins where before it was an insular decision-making process. host: in your article you take issue with some people like the writer roxanne gate who says cancel culture is really consequence culture. i want to read from your article about what she said and you say. in an interview with mother jones, roxanne gay said a

perceived cancellation is merely the reality that when you make a mistake, and we all do, there should be consequences. the definition of a mistake is left unexamined. the location it is decided by the cancelers. some people would say the whole cancel culture thing is people being forced to take responsibility for their words. that is how it started. do you agree or disagree? guest: in many cases that is true. the point i was trying to make in that paragraph is that we frequently don't examine -- saying that cancel culture is simply consequent culture takes for granted what types of actions should and should not be held accountable. in many cases -- many of the things roxanne gay speaks of

there should be consequences for. the process is so slippery now because of social media in large part. you just wave away the idea of cancel culture, i don't think it fully recognizes the extent to which -- we live in a culture where people that are progressives, it does not self examined the expense to which people like roxanne gay [indiscernible] host: let's let some viewers take part in this conversation. we will open up our regular lines. republicans, your number will be (202) 748-8001. democrats, your number will be (202) 748-8000. independents, you can call (202)

748-8002. you can always text at (202) 748-8003. we are always reading on social media, on twitter and on facebook. one of the arguments you did put forward in your article was that cancel culture is weighted towards liberals. can you explain what you mean by that? guest: i think it has to do with what i was talking about. [indiscernible] i did not say it means the news media is biased but the person who becomes powerful in media -- mainstream news sources, and

they tend to hold sway. they are the cultural institutions that set the parameters on the conversation in a large part. host: plan cancel culture starts in your article, you go back through the history of it. you also say it is now moving from a personal phenomenon to a political one. how are you seeing that and where are you seeing that? guest: the example i used with justine sacco where punishing her or holding her accountable for her poor taste in a joke became not just a mechanism for correcting one person's actions or thoughts. if you're a person that joined in on shaming her, you were raising [indiscernible] she became an avatar of

cultural-racial sensitivity. the way social media turned it from a personal to political phenomenon that a coworker that you correct becomes part of a political, socially motivated group trying to enforce [indiscernible] host: do you see cancel culture being weaponized in politics in the united states right now? is this just something that happens every once in a while? has it now become part of the political dirty tricks we see? guest: that's a good question. i think it is definitely in the back of dirty tricks. -- bag of dirty tricks. you see the strange hashtag campaigns against clinical opponents on twitter. it definitely does happen.

where the power is -- with a few exceptions, including the case of the ear reporter -- e-repor ted five for her college political efforts, they usually tend to be ineffective. cancellation is most effective when it's driven by an authentic -- when people form to cancel somebody online, i think the authentically trying to enforce the norms of the world we would like to see. it really starts rolling when it's organic and that way. i think it is a political tool. it is most effective when it is tapping into something in the culture people feel like they can access and be part of the social media. host: let's let some viewers take part in the conversation. michael calling from rainbow city, alabama on the independent

line. good morning. caller: good morning. how are you? republicans are running with this. it is on fox 24/7. every day. i go on social media and they talk about being canceled. on youtube they have thousands of videos about how the election was rigged and talking in codes and stuff. and all this crap. it is just a farce for them to bang somebody over the head with. that is all i got to say. thanks. guest: is very easy to -- this is what i wrote the piece. it's an appealing tool to say you have been canceled or somebody is trying to be canceled.

one of the few things we agree on is everyone should have the right to free speech and should be able to speak their piece. dissenters being driven out of public life by the mob is not really appealing to anybody. nobody thinks they are doing it. if it comes appealing to say -- that is why fox news is talking about cancellation 20 47. -- 20 47. to put them in the status of the victim and they need to garner sympathy for it when they are playing that role. host: define for us what you mean when you say the difference between being denied free speech and being canceled. where is the line there? guest: that's a great question. being denied free speech would be if, you know, the government redacted a publication of something you published. i think that many of these

complaints -- this is sort of why i tried to break it down in my piece to a tool that can be used within spaces. being canceled is being denied access to an arena you want to access. everybody still has free speech. even when you are banned from twitter you have free speech. personally i don't believe the right to tweet is part of our first amendment right. it's a private platform run by a private company. being canceled is being denied access to such platforms. being denied free speech is an entirely different subject. host: let's talk to jay from virginia on the democratic from virginia on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning.

why don't conservatives view the idea of consequences as far as counsel culture is concerned, why do they not look at it as the free market free speech -- and free speech? me as a purchaser -- of a good or service is allowed to respond. there are many who agree with me, we can have an effect and i do not like what you are saying so i'm not going to purchase or acquire your good or service. why don't conservatives view that as the free market? that to me is imminent whether what you're saying is worthy of continuing, why don't you agree with that?

guest: i largely agree with what you're saying. if i were to take the most considerate position that the conservative you conjure would make. it will be a complaint about the phenomenon, when a social media frenzy comes along and washes somebody out of the discourse -- due process, whatever the institution in question believes that should be. there is a balanced complaint whether it is out of fear of boycott, retaliation, loss of reputation, cal tells to that social media frenzy -- kowtows

to that social media frenzy. there are valid complaints about that. in many cases, people who are being canceled are losing their license with people who would otherwise be interested with who they are and what they say. host: let's talk to jim from ohio on the independent line. good morning. are you there? i think we lost jim. i want to ask about eight c-span piece that you included in your article. explain what happened in 2010 on c-span that you included in this article and what that has to do with capital culture. guest: i spoke with a

conservative journalist about an experience she had in 2010. she appeared on a panel for her entry in a book compiled by jeff goldberg collecting work by conservative writers, one of whom was her ex-boyfriend. -- decided to hijack this panel in a not small wait and use it as a platform to decry helen, attack her personally, painter as a bad person and align her political belief with her personal moral failings. there was a pylon -- pile on of

public shaming. it became this albatross around her neck. the linking of her political views to her personal morality and lack of qualifications that she desired an increase in personal suffering. helen brought this up when i spoke with her a moment with personal and political fused. host: you brought up public shaming, is there a difference between counsel culture and public shaming or are they the same? guest: good question. when you talk about what counsel culture is -- cancel culture is,

what would somebody publicly shame somebody about it 2021? if you think of the public as the internet, the key difference is 70 can be publicly shamed -- somebody can be publishing for something apolitical. cancel culture is when you shame somebody with the goal of establishing boundaries of what you think a just warfare public spirit should be. host: one of our social media followers has a theory, they want to know if you agree. the tweet says, "cancel culture is a form of censorship. nazis are entitled to their political beliefs but i am not obligated to give them a platform.

the aclu takes the position of letting the nazi speak and then challenging what teeth says that what he says -- what he says." is cancel culture center he-- censorship? guest: no. censorship is when you are not allowed -- they can take many forms. censorship and free speech, people conflate those a lot. i do not think it is censorship because the person who is being canceled is free to express those views on some other platform. host: let's talk to carl from

new york, new york on the democrat line. good morning. caller: how are you? mr. robertson, i am surprised that you. -- does not mean anything, it is a medicine avenue, they knew it was going to take liz cheney spot from her they did not have anything to say for any rhyme or reason. that is the madison avenue word for what -- so i am going to take it. the first one to two it was laura ingalls and fox news. it does not mean anything. i am surprised. you do not know when you have a boondoggle? host: does cancel culture mean anything these days?

guest: that is the question i set out to answer. you can characterize it as satan madison avenue word is delightful, because everybody wants to use it. anything you do not like or grievance, i think conservatives use that to great effect in these culture work battles. i wrote my piece because i think there is something different about the way people are held accountable today. i do not think the definition as characterized by fox news and other media outlets, is a machine for reproducing progressive ideology.

it is a new and novel phenomenon. host: let's talk to ron from seattle, washington on the independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i appreciate this conversation. i have a concern when we start canceling dr. seuss, shakespeare , disneyland, dumbo has to be excluded also, we are indoctrinating youth. and the independence of free thoughts. when michelle obama and the president can talk about dr. seuss, now it is banned. that is concerning. shakespeare, you name it. you are going towards a road to marxism.

that is one of the things to start to indoctrinate our youth. i appreciate your insight regarding canceling literature and movies. i will take my answer off call. guest: the phenomenon you describe should not -- those could be described as the publication, or removal from circulation of certain books, that does not qualify as cancel culture. what happened there is a decision to keep or not keep facebook's and circulation aced on the perception of the racial stereotypes as offensive. whether those are offensive or should be taken out of publication, that is a debate

that can be had. i do not think those are examples of cancel culture. this is one of the reasons i wanted to set out to dig into mips. -- in my piece. there's a difference between cancel culture into discrete decisions around cultural norms. i do not think deciding to remove dr. seuss from circulation or put warnings before the muppet show, or the kerfuffle around mr. potato head is cancel culture. host: let's talk to jennifer from illinois on the democrat line. good morning. caller: good morning.

i wanted to talk about women and cancel culture and how i feel like when i hear cancel culture from men it is almost a fear. i feel like it came out of the idea of women saying we are not going to take this crap anymore and we are going to call out anybody. i do not think that is bad. public shaming works on the l train. that is a joke. i wanted to ask about that. do you feel like this is called out because of the fears? [no audio] host: go ahead and respond.

guest: as a former chicago resident, i agree. you touch on something i wish i had more room to expand on. talking about -- over the past five years the phenomenon, social media driven speech about bad actives in society or viewed as bad is powerful. in some cases it is warranted. many of the cases you described, social media can be a powerful tool for people, especially women who are driven to silence about actions frustrating them can be a powerful tool to hold

people accountable. that is why we are having this conversation. my piece is not an attempt to diminish or say that every instance of cancel culture is agree just or overstepping a line or mob justice. you are correct to identify that it is a powerful mechanism. at the same time it is something independent in cases of [indiscernible] host: one of the things you write is that cancel culture is neither a liberal conspiracy to enforce aggressive norms nor a right wing strongman built to power the conservative outrage machine but an ideological neutral mechanism.

is one side using it more than the other and who is benefiting from the idea? guest: partially you can say that there is a ring of truth to the conservative claim because liberals and progressives wield outsized cultural power. for that reason as i quoted helen andrews, people fear it a normal person can be canceled because they are seen to transgress a social norm. a san diego power and light worker who i mentioned in my piece who was baited into taking

-- have fired. i recommend everybody read, it was a fascinating look. i do not think it is a liberal phenomenon. i can understand why they perceive it that way. liberals are more active on social media. host: who is the cancel culture angled at -- aimed at? is it and at the person who says or does the thing or corporations and illnesses who are afraid of losing business and are more vulnerable? guest: great question.

it is more so the latter. it depends on the arena. i talked to somebody who worked at the progressive data firm and was fired for a reason that he posted a study in the aftermath of the black lives matter protest that showed that nonviolent protests tended to -- reforms. i think the person in most cases -- people do not have a vendetta against david nor personally, they did not have an idea who he was. nobody who is on our team

plausibly should be engaging in this speech. this is what he mentioned in the piece, this mob comes after him. people in this institution who wanted to push them out -- him out solid as a convenient excuse. there are people within the institutions whether out of fear, enmity see the convenience of opportunity. that can happen in any arena. host: daniel is coming from michigan, tell us how to pronounce that. caller: a spinning -- ishpenni

ng. i was wondering wasn't it bill marr that was the first one to claim the phrase cancel culture? i think cancel culture is overstated. it is something in academia. it might be a knee-jerk reaction to boycotts. have a good day. guest: thank you. i do not know the answer to your question about bill marr. i did not decide to go into the other analogy. there was a post recently that export that recently -- explored

that recently. in terms of being over flown-- overblown that is somewhat true. i read that these are debates being held at media institutions and politics but you will see many stories on your hometown facebook page. you will find people engaging in group enforcement of norms. which is how i define cancel culture. the national media does tend to draw more attention to it, it can happen anywhere. and it does. host: steve from port st. lucie,

florida on the independent line. good morning. caller: please do not cut me off. naomi wolf, carol swain, larry elder are the greatest minds of our time and they are getting censored. harvard went from doug kenny, national lampoon to mark zuckerberg's facebook in 40 years. mark zuckerberg is the biggest divider in our country. he gets paid 100 billion dollars to divide americans up. he is censoring people. dorothy and zuckerberg are censoring americans. we voted against this anti-american antifa anarchist industries and we are screaming now, telling you that the

election is not right. that this virus came from a lab and you keep cutting us off. host: go ahead and respond derek. guest: i would say that i think social media platforms do divide americans in many ways. what you are saying is fundamentally incorrect. i think this is a function of [indiscernible] and living their lives online, when somebody you admire or is on your team has been removed from a platform, that is hurtful. it feels personally injurious. i can make it feel like there is theirs omnipresent cancel

culture bearing down -- there is this omnipresent cancel culture bearing down. there is this conspiracy involving antifa. what they are saying is an example of one social media -- when social media and the conversations you are having -- well me in some faraway place mark zuckerberg or jack dorsey seem like they personally entering you or somebody like, it feels like harsh punishment. social media platforms are complicit. they designed their products to keep people using it as long as possible. host: several of our social media followers have said if you want to survive cancel culture, stop reading social media. is that effective?

guest: good question. -- about cyber bullying where he denies this. i do not think that is the case. that idea is reflective of you defining the sphere in which you act by your access to social media platforms or position at center of the ring, the size of your platform a can feel inescapable. the idea that you can walk off and stop caring is dismissive. it is harder to be on social media all of the time without criticism.

especially hard when the institution to rely on for your livelihood punishes you for what is happening on social media. there's a kernel of truth in the idea [indiscernible] the best response to people -- or cyber bullying somebody is to not engage. not to respond with a hair trigger. host: bruce colling from maryland on the independent line. good morning. caller: another thing we had political correctness in the 70's, start slanting things about gender, race and sexual orientation. this is another phase. you can reach people quickly. i was somebody from the left,

but the left is so distorted that i know longer and. if take things in context, when a woman says kill all men, they hired her. if you said kill all black people she would be gone. it is an irrational thing. it started with people trying to shut other people up. guest: without going into the specifics, what he is saying is the opposite end of the spectrum of the person being upset about dr. seuss books. there is very important debate among liberal progressives about -- our ideology around race and gender should be.

when people voice opposition to views whether they are further to the left or right, the reason they decide to not publish your essay, i do not think that is cancellation. it is the byproduct of the debate, the left is having intense debate right now. that phenomenon shall be identified on its own terms and output under the embolic category of cancel culture. host: is there a solution care or should there be -- here or should there be to cancel culture? guest: everybody stop using twitter, kidding. people want instant gratification when they engage in these debates. they want to dunk on people, the

score points, only people -- own people. i think people should be more thoughtful. which is a pat answer and hopefully not deflating. i think social media platforms bear the responsibility for making it easy, engaging and rewarding to engage the mob. saying people should be more thoughtful is victim blaming. americans need to rethink their relationship with social media. that is the remedy i would have. this is a phenomenon created by and driven by social media

dependents, years. -- dependence and use. we should start rethinking all of these platforms in our lives. host: we would like two think the contracting editor to political magazine talking about this article. "how everything became cancel culture." thank you so much. we like to thank all of our guests, viewers and followers on social media for with us for another washington journal. happy father's day to all fathers out there. make sure you have a great saturday. keep washing your hands. we will see you another -- tomorrow for another washington journal. ♪

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