>> book tv has top nonfiction books and authors every weekend. saturday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwords, in venable, the author looks at the u.s. response to the covid -- coronavirus pandemic. he is interviewed by senate bill frist. sunday 10:00 p.m. eastern, critical look at the 6019 project which examines the foundations of america's beginning with matthew spalding, executive director of the 1776 commission, and the author of 1620, critical response to the 6019 project. sunday at 11:00 p.m. eastern, amazing story of george h w bush post-presidency. his former chief of staff recalls his 25 years after leaving the oval office.

watch book tv this weekend on c-span2. >> next, look at efforts to reduce plastic waste through recycling and the use of alternative materials. there was testimony from scientists and environmental experts at a hearing that ran about an hour and 45 minutes. >> without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess at any time. under vaccinated members may remove their mask only during their questioning under the five

minute rule. members attending virtually should keep their video feed on as long as they are present in the hearing. members are responsible for their own microphones. please also keep your microphones muted unless you're speaking. if members have documents they wish to submit for the record, please email them to the committee clerk whose email address was circulated prior to the hearing. so good morning, and thank you all for joining today's hearing, and a special thank you to our witnesses for joining us here today. two years ago, i had the honor and privilege of hearing the first hearing on recycling in this committee in almost more than a decade. since then, much has changed, what the problem of plastic waste and how to enable a circular economy for recycling continues. we only have to look to the past year and a half to see some of these important medical and safety functions of plastic.

face shields, facemasks, and other personal protective equipment allowed america's essential workers to be on our front lines of our nations covid-19 response. disposable syringes are helping to deliver vaccine shots in arms all across the country. plastic can be designated to be rigid enough to use in vehicle safety applications. durable enough to hold liquid products for years and flexible enough to keep our food fresh. virgin plastic is also cheap to produce. unfortunately, the characteristics that make plastic convenience also make it difficult to recycle and manage after it has been used. global plastic production increased him 2 million tons per year in 1950, we remember plastic, to 400 million tons annually in recent years.

what's more, if current trends continue, plastic production is projected to quadruple a 2050. so there is no one-size-fits-all solution here. what we do know and where we want to start is with reducing, using, and recycling. historically the u.s. has done a great job -- has not done the best job at recycling. we recycle less than 9% of our plastic waste, despite all campaigns that are pursued across the country. for more than 20 years, the u.s. has shipped our plastic waste to international markets to be recycled. when one of the major markets closed in 2018, items collected for recycling sadden warehouses because many cities across the nation didn't have a local recycler that could process these bales of plastic which were too often highly contaminated. unfortunately, our communities

face the choice of incinerating or dumping in landfills. while economic and other factors led to the current classic pollution -- plastic pollution crisis, part of this solution can be to invest in research to reduce plastic -- plastic waste and improve capabilities. this past earth day i was proud to introduce the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act alongside my colleague from ohio, congressman and flee in solace. the bill calls on the federal government to develop a strategic plan plastic waste reduction and direct the office of science and technology policy to establish a program to leverage the expertise of federal science agencies, academia, scientific associations and state and local governments and the private sector. this bill will support research and international standards

developments to spur innovative, sustainable solutions that can create a world leading u.s. industry in plastic recycling. research is absolutely needed into how to design plastics to be recyclable, up cycle existing plastic into high-value products, minimize environmental impacts of plastic waste and recycling on our climate. enter improve plastic waste management to prevent plastics from entering our air, soil, and oceans. finally, this legislation will support the measurement science needed to make sorting technologies more efficient and to update standards for characterizing the multilayered plastic packaging materials used today. no one solution will completely solve plastic pollution. rather, it will take multiple efforts. the research supported in this bill can drive innovation and

innovation is at the heart of american industry and manufacturing that creates jobs. i look forward to hearing from our distinguished witnesses as our force challenges and opportunities are adopting sustainable, up screen -- upstream production improvement to the recycling systems. i would like to enter into the record to letters of support for the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act from the american chemical society and the national league of cities. the chair now recognizes mr. wolf for an opening statement.

>> good morning, thank you for holding today's hearing. i look forward to examining emerging technologies in plastics recycling. i would also like to thank our witnesses for appearing before the subcommittee and sharing their expertise with us. as we take a step back, i want to note that in the 20th century, the united states was a leader in the development of plastics. we revolutionize the world by making material wealth widespread and attainable like never before. however, the u.s. recycling infrastructure has failed to keep up with the booming plastic market. in 2018, the u.s. produced 36 million times a plastic, as the chairwoman noted. however, the domestic recycling industry only repurposed 8.5% of it. america has a new opportunity to

lead in the development of a circular economy of plastics. an economy that produces, recycles, and reuses materials to reduce cost and waste. investments in research and development of new, sustainable materials will help the environment and the u.s. economy. for example, with advance recycling tools and technologies we can fully repurpose plastic without needing to harvest any new resources. we can turn waste into a marketable commodity. the economic potential here truly is immense. according to a report by the american chemistry council, advanced plastic -- recycling could support over 38,000 u.s. jobs and were -- produced nearly $10 billion in output. plastics are integral to our daily lives but we cannot ignore their impact on the environment. in my district in northeast florida, we are blessed with

miles of beautiful coastlines. it is a main focal point of our lives and our economy. moving from plastic waste plastic reuse ensures the protection of florida's pristine beaches, which many this committee like to visit, and the -- floridians economies that rely on healthy coastal ecosystems. i recently had the real pleasure to visit the loggerhead marine life center in jupiter, florida, which was amazing to see the research in -- and the marine life they are helping there, but it was also very disturbing to see the amount of micro plastics that are appearing in our ocean food supply. it was staggering, and it's dangerous, and we absolutely need to take action. i believe that using innovative methods to bolster and optimize

our to mystic plastics recycling will not only preserve this environment, preserve our environment, but also avoid costly regulations. that is unlike the plastic provisions in the green new deal. additionally, demonstrated over the last year, our national security is at risk as long as we are dependent on foreign nations, particularly on the chinese, and his party for essential commodities or services. america's clean energy future requires a reliable and stable supply of critical minerals. my bill addresses the issue of america's reliance on foreign nations to obtain critical minerals. i'm pleased that a provision of the legislation was included for the future act that recently passed this committee. when it comes to recycling, the u.s. cannot remain export reliant. weedy reports regarding china's 2018 plastics importation restrictions highlighted that

china never actually disposed of plastics properly. second, we should not become reliant on china for yet another prickle service, especially when there is untapped economic gain to be had here at home. the science committee's role is to look to innovation to solve major challenges facing our nation and it's just what we're doing here today. we have witnesses who are working on new solutions to plastics recycling, including chemical recycling and applying robotics and artificial intelligence. i look forward to the conversation. innovation in these areas will ensure a better world for our children and grandchildren. i yield back. the chair recognizes chairwoman johnson for an opening statement. >> good morning. and thank you, chairwoman for

holding today's hearing. and happy birthday. leaders across the globe are wrestling with the need to reduce plastic waste. i appreciate the fact that this bipartisan leadership legislation introduced to help reduce plastic waste. communities across the country, including my district in dallas, texas, are trying to find solutions to deal with increasing levels of plastic waste. statistics concerning plastic pollution are indeed staggering. in 2018, plastic waste was the third-largest source of municipal solid waste in the united states.

in that year alone, we generated 35.7 million times a plastic waste. recycled 3 million times, combusted 5.6 million tons and put 27 million tons of plastics and -- in waste landfill. these statistics make it imperative to support research that can help us move forward in a sustainable way. experts agree that no single solution will stall the plastic waste crisis. we must have and all of the above approach and it is important to understand the current recycling system and potential for solutions, and what research technology and gaps we need to feel.

also critical is understanding the need for standards development and new assessment models to help us achieve sustainable systems. collaboration will be key between federal agencies, state and local governments, academia, the private sector, and international partners. today's hearing is very important and the step we are taking is working toward achieving sustainability goals for our environment. i look forward to the discussion and i thank you and yield back. >> thank you, madam chair. if there are members who wish to submit additional opening statements, your statements will be added to the record at this point. also at this time i'd like to introduce our witnesses. our first witness is ms.

harrison. she is the chief executive officer of the recycling partnership, a national nonprofit dedicated to protecting the planet by fixing recycling and activating a circular economy throughout the united states. she is an international speaker, media pundit and environmental author dedicated to engaging companies in making measurable, lasting change in communities. under her leadership, the recycling partnership has grown significantly, engaging more than 70 funding partners and reaching more than half of american households. our next witness is the director and principal investigator of the university of minnesota and its app center for sustainable polymers. he joins the department of chemistry faculty in the university of minnesota in 1997 and is currently the mcknight presidential endowed chair in

chemistry at the university where his research focuses on the synthesis and self-assembly of all the functional polymers. he served as an associate editor for the atf journal from 2018-2017 and has been editor-in-chief since 2017. our third witness is the professor of sustainable systems at the university of michigan and served as the director of the center for sustainable systems. he also holds appointments as a professor in the school for environment and sustainability in the department of civil and environmental engineering. his research focuses on the development and application of lifecycle models and sustainability metrics to guide the design and improvement products and technology. our final witness is the vice president of the plastics

division at the american chemistry council. in this role, he oversees strategic programs to advance science-based policy agenda, national outreach and sustainability initiative on behalf of america's leading plastic makers. he also leads industry initiatives and fosters multi- stakeholder dialogues around helping in plastic waste by creating a more circular economy . as our witnesses should know, you will each have five minutes for your spoken testimony, your written testimony will be included in the record for the hearing. when you all have completed your spoken testimony, we will begin with questions. each member will have five minutes to question the panel. we will start with ms. harrison's opening testimony. >> madame chairwoman and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak with you about this important topic.

i am the ceo of the recycling partnership and we are national nonprofit that works with companies, communities and policies to strengthen the u.s. recycling system. you may remember a recent campaign to boost recycling. that was an example of the type of grants we given how we partner with thousands of cities across the county -- across the country. recycling partnership is designed to bring together public and private sectors because without coordination, recycling will never deliver the solutions we all need. recycling is an when something old become something new again, but we need to ensure that is by plan and not just by chance, as is the current case. we are here to talk about how to execute that plan, a shared vision for the future, moving away from a linear economy where we take raw materials and make stuff out of it just to bury all

that value back into the ground after single use. recycling is so much more than just putting things in recycling bin payment it's about smarter feedstock and stronger methods for manufacturing. but there is a hitch. as many of you have heard, recycling faces barriers that it needs help overcoming. the recycling partnership just wrote a report that that you may be interested in. it's called paying it forward, how investing in recycling will pay dividends. it outlines how to fix the u.s. recycling system and deliver rewards to the environment and the economy. when it comes to plastics, technology has an important role to play in delivering that better system. r&d can help us answer important questions like how do we better design plastics products to meet the demands of the infrastructure.

things like labels, inc., adhesives, they make a big difference in determining if something is truly recyclable. similarly, how do we make sure that improvements of infrastructure are lined with all the innovation of what is coming into the system, what is being designed? how can we develop standards to make sure businesses know what quality they are getting? how can we make sure that recycled content supply is available for u.s. businesses? like businesses in all of your states. there is unified north carolina, in indiana, making outdoor furniture out of bottles, division plastics in california producing feedstocks for shampoo and soap bottles for companies like method.

all turning bottles into new bottles. so why does this matter to this committee? three things should be top of mind for our discussion today. system solutions, scale, and fees. r&d that focuses on those three things matter most. technology only helps if it is part of a system. what is not needed, one-off technology, silver bullets, individual projects that don't add up to system change. each one of those businesses that i mentioned and all of the others like those have to overcome technical barriers in order to become profitable and grow. we need research to turn those technical barriers into bridges, helping to create a circular economy, not just by chance, but by plan.

we commend the committee for its attention to plastics and i'm grateful for the opportunity to testify today. the recycling partnership looks forward to working with you to protect our planet and people. thank you. >> thank you, distinguished members of the subcommittee thank you for the invitation to , provide testimony in today's hearing. i am honored to have this opportunity. i'm a professor of chemistry at the university of minnesota and the director of the national science foundation center for sustainable polymers. it is headquartered here in minnesota. i have worked in the field of polymer science since i was an undergraduate researcher at the university of florida where i -- since beginning as a professor of chemistry at the university of minnesota, i have

worked in the areas of sustainable polymers and much of my research today has connections to sustainability. i have led numerous research efforts and focused on sustainable polymers. i have a passion for advancing sustainable polymers to enable a circular economy for future generations. our society depends on plastics every day and we are faced with a crisis. comforts, conveniences and efficiencies associated with the use of these modern materials comes at a cost. moreover, nearly all the new plastic is derived from nonrenewable fossil resources thus contributing to the depletion of finite feedstocks harbored by earth. while we all know about plastics recycling and the chasing arrow

indicators on plastic materials, the fact is that a very small percentage of plastics are effectively recycle. to make matters worse, most plastics are used for a short . of time -- period of time and then disposed, often indiscriminately. the value of that plastic material is lost, waste is generated, very little is recycled, and a staggering level of these discarded materials end up in our landscapes and waterways causing environmental and ecological damage. the resulting impact is a clear concern. using oil and gas to make plastics that typically have very short use lifetimes, a good fraction of which ends up in the environment, and cause damage to our ecosystems is simply unsustainable. however, we all need plastic. these remarkable materials are so important and often contribute positively to sustainability, it is difficult to image modern society without them. plastics contribute to -- the other main contributing factor

is that these materials are generally available at very low cost. performance to price ratio of plastics is about as high as it gets. while i can argue that we all need plastic, we don't need all plastics. there are some places where we simply used to much plastic. we need a major change in the way we produce and use plastic. to realize the vision there are many interwoven factors. these include policy initiatives, other end-of-life infrastructure and industry adoption of sustainable alternatives. i'm here to emphasize the fact that basic and fundamental research and sustainable polymers is and will continue to be sustainable and new

sustainable technologies can be built. basic research in sustainable polymers aims to uncover the underlying principles associated with efficient conversion of chemical intermediates, green processes to incorporate those and end-of-life scenarios post use while contributing to sustainable palm -- polymer futures. revealing what is possible for sustainable polymers is decades behind analogous work in fossil derived nonrecyclable cereals that dominate today's landscape. significant efforts are imperative for new generations to enjoy the benefits of plastics while simultaneously eliminating their negative consequences. i provide an overview of research efforts carried out, my

view on broader research needs into the sustainable polymer arena my support for the recycling and research act. thank you for this opportunity to testify today. i'm honored to share my thoughts and visions for a sustainable polymer future and i look forward to answering any questions you may have. >> thank you, chairwoman stevens and ranking member and other members of the subcommittee. a service director at the university and professor in the school for environmental sustainability. my research focuses on the development of lifecycle models and sustainability metrics. our center recently developed the first copperheads of characterization of plastics use

across the u.s. economy. i will offer some observations based on this and other research within the industry ranging from milk packaging to building insulation. the plastics waste crisis is more than a packaging waste project -- problem. consumer products, furniture, electronics, transportation and building. each with unique challenges and opportunities. less than a percent of the plastics retired in these products are recycled. audible technical and economic barriers, in theory, most thermal plastics have a high reflective ability that low recycling rates can be traced to inexpensive stocks combined with material quality issues. lesson content waste is estimated at 33% in commercially viable systems cannot handle the current volume and diversity

plastics and e-waste. buildings using increasing amounts of plastics as well as insulation private recovery is extremely challenging, given that building demolition produces mixed waste with low fractions of plastic. plastics in the transportation sector has been due to specialized properties, plastic recovery from auto shredder residue is challenging. 39 different plastic types are used to make cars. the cost to separate, clean, and collect often exceeds that of virgin plastic. systems analysis tools are necessary to overcome these challenges. first, research is needed to fill in gaps in plastic material flow.

improve characterization will facilitate coordination between product design manufacturing and material recovery efforts. second, lifecycle analysis models are needed to guide innovation and robust cost-effective solutions. assessments of plastics using products can guide improvements. they are necessary to avoid burden shifting and promoting of less sustainable alternatives. third, emphasize interdisciplinary r&d to develop plastic way solutions route at the core, sustainable solutions are effective when they are in alignment between markets and behavioral drivers. bringing together engineers, industrial ecologists, behavioral scientists to achieve convergence more quickly and develop more robust solutions.

implementation can be accelerated when academics, industry, government, and community partners help create solutions. r&d should also target product system design solutions beyond recycling. i encourage broadening of the research scope to develop solutions that can avoid or limit the generation of waste. these strategies include dematerialization, material substitutions, service life extension of products, reuse, and remanufacturing. fifth, develop a roadmap to guide r&d coordination across agencies. this can help set research priorities and avoid duplication, given the wide array of resident composite types used with a wide range of plastic application, each with varying lifetimes. finally, solutions should reduce carbon emission. humanity is facing a carbon emergency, a climate emergency. we need to prioritize solutions

to accelerate greenhouse gas emissions to zero. solutions to the plastic waste crisis will require community engagement, behavior change in policy innovation. technological innovation and recycling alone will not be sufficient. i support the goals of the committee's legislation and hope recommendations will strengthen programming and implementation. i appreciate the opportunity to share my perspective and welcome your questions. thank you for your attention. >> good morning. let me start off by thanking the subcommittee for holding this important hearing today. i want to commend the chairwoman from michigan for her leadership on this committee.

the american chemistry council plastics division is pleased to provide testimony to the subcommittee. our members are the leading producers of modern plastic material used to make countless durable goods. used in a variety of applications and innovations that improve the quality of our lives, our environment and economy. acc encourages passage of the plastic waste reduction and recycling research act. this legislation would direct federal government resources to improve the global competitiveness of u.s. plastics recycling and ensure u.s. leadership in plastic waste reduction and recycling research. it would help capture the value of used plastics through enhanced research and development and create standards , tools and technologies necessary to modernize and expand today's recycling systems. finally, it will accelerate the research and development for advance recycling technologies. our members are deeply committed

to creating a circular economy for plastics and ending plastic waste in the environment. plastics contribute to sustainability goals that help protect the american environment for future generations, plastic waste is not. waste in the environment is never acceptable. we are eager and taking action to solve the problem. that's why in 2018 americas plastic makers established ambitious goals. by 2030, 100% of u.s. plastic past -- packaging will be recyclable or recoverable. by 2040, 100% of plastic passaging -- packaging will be reused, recycle, recovered. last year he outlined a set of actions to mobilize value chains to achieve these goals. our industry has worked to grow the circular economy for all plastics by implementing this.

since july 2017, our industry has invested nearly $6 billion to grow plastics recycling in the united states, most of it in advance recycling technologies. while traditional recycling processes will continue to play an important role, they do face some important limitations. you are cutting edge technologies complement traditional systems by picking up where they leave off and enabling communities to recycle significantly more types in greater quantities of plastic. advance recycling technologies are innovative manufacturing processes that fundamentally transform the chemical structure of post used plastics back to their basic chemical building blocks. these are the raw materials used for making virgin quality plastics and other valuable products. they enable more types of plastics to become resources for new manufacturing, conserving natural resources and helping

grow local jobs and economies. momentum for advance recycling is accelerating across the u.s. and the plastic race reduction will help sustain that momentum. moberly recognized corporations are making significant commitments and building infrastructure at a commercial scale. technology has evolved and creating new opportunities and tremendous breakthroughs that can create virgin quality packaging critical for demanding applications such as food grade and pharmaceutical packaging. there is a significant and growing market driven by consumer demand for using more recycled plastic products. 14 states have enacted legislation to upgrade their existing laws so companies are more properly relate -- regulated and a first wave of advance recycling enterprises is

achieving third-party validation through international certification. we believe the challenge of plastic waste in the environment is solvable and collective actions by government, industry, nonprofits and ngos will make miracle more sustainable. the stakes are high. plastics are critical to a modern society. from light-weighting vehicles to reduce emissions, to sealing and insulating our homes and buildings, to delivering essential health care, preserving food and preventing food waste, and contributing to an overall higher quality of life. i want to thank the subcommittee for holding this important hearing today. we appreciate the opportunity to collaborate on this and future legislation. i yelled my time back to the chairwoman. >> we've got a great group here and this is making for a very exciting hearing.

we will move to our first round of questions and the chair will recognize herself for five minutes of questioning. a recent study found that contamination of recyclables is a major crosscutting challenge to the u.s. recycling system. i've seen this in my own district in southeast michigan when i talked to mike municipal leaders or others in the industry. contamination can occur when plastic bags are not sorted from recyclables or with food residue making it nonrecyclable. ms. harrison, what steps can we take to ensure businesses and consumers know the quality of plastic they are acquiring for making new products? >> i love this question because it's really about how we make sure recycle content is competing with virgin.

recycling is all about manufacturing. it has to compete on price, quality, and volume. manufacturers need to know that they can be there when they needed. contamination can be put into two buckets. one, missteps in the design of a product. i mentioned label adhesive. we need thought that goes into how packed eugene -- packaging is designed. there is a new tool that we just designed with support from walmart to help align around common design challenges so that we know as consumers will get something off the shelf is in prime recycling condition. the second bucket is in the household. that challenge is when we can sometimes call squish cycling.

people hope that something is recyclables so they put it in the bin. that part of how we engage the public is a really important one because it is not just awareness. we know the public is aware of recycling. we need to get to how to engage them in the correct behavior of whites recycle on which day. education has been woefully underfunded in this country. if we leverage the public will, we will find a better outcome. we are doing work in communities right now. we have a program will report and with communities to make sure we are addressing the key challenge of contamination and the program will trigger the

problem that individual households are making. the number one challenge is people are trying their best to put all the recyclables in a plastic bag. >> we are educating the public here today. also, just wondering how plastics in today's waste stream has changed since the development of the codes from 30 years ago which are commonly identified on plastic packaging by a number 1-7 in a triangle. one of the things we are looking at here today is what additional research is needed for better plastic characterization, and how could that research view new

stanton's and identification codes. if you have anything to contribute on that i would love to hear from you as well. >> i would say those identification codes indicate the materials passed, not its future. they do not automatically determine that something is recyclable, even if it has a 1. better research into how we communicate to the public with confidence that yes, this was designed for a solution and the system meets it in the middle. i think it would be a much needed solution. >> i would agree, identification is critical to help with sorting, but i think that other systems are necessary to facilitate the sorting, and we

should also look at transferability of models, as you know in the state of michigan we have a bottle bill and we have higher quality in terms of recycled containers due to the reduction rate that we have here compared to other states that don't have those bottle bills. so we have to look holistically at our solutions. >> which is part of what we are symbolizing here today with these great panelists. i'm going to recognize the gentleman from the nice state of florida, there are certainly points of time in the year when i constituents are in florida or looking to get to florida. >> thank you so much. i mentioned in my opening

statement, my visit to the loggerhead marine life center. i saw the damaging impacts of micro plastics in our environment and our food supply. do you think biodegradable plastics would be beneficial? seems to me, it would be a game changer in challenging micro plastics and challenges to adopting biodegradable plastics do you see? >> congressman, thank you for the question. this is a challenging question because of the definitions of biodegradable that are present. biodegradable over what timeframe and under what condition? i firmly believe that biodegradable plastics will be a piece of the plastics puzzle in that development of materials that can be assimilated by microorganisms in either

engineered environments such as industrial composting and places like that, or if seeped into the environment and discriminate -- indiscriminately. the issue becomes is, how do we really understand the fundamental processes of biodegradation over what time scale and under what conditions that biodegradation takes place? i think we want to be careful about plastics that are labeled as biodegradable as maybe incentivizing in leading them in the environment. that's one thing we have to be careful about. but i do think that with proper compost infrastructure and proper understanding and education around this issue, is that biodegradable plastics will play a role in future sustainable -- one example would be in food contaminated plastics. so, for example, if those

plastics were compostable, they would go in compostable food waste, provided the infrastructure was available. so the answer is a little more complicated and nuanced, but i will end by saying yes, it is a piece of the puzzle how we will solve it. >> thank you. the answers always seem to be much more complex than most people, including this committee, fully appreciate. mr. baca, we discussed that china has banned the import of recycling and many other countries. the claim is that it's due to the poor quality of plastic bundles being reported. do you agree? one, agree and test do you a great and do you -- do you agree

and do you think china has greater ambitions? what would it mean? >> congressman, thank you so much for the question and i agree with you that we should not be -- leadership. i think when you get to the issue of contamination, the biggest challenge is a fragmented system review have 9000 jurisdictions across the united states doing 9000 different things. i think there is a very appropriate role for congress to develop a set of minimum standards that work to improve recycling access, recycling education, and recycling collection that will definitely streamline the processes to getting more plastics and all material into the system. i think when it comes to advanced recycling, the good news i want to share with this committee is that advanced recycling is built at a commercial scale. the fundamentals that guided advanced recycling continue to

change and there have been tremendous breakthroughs that allow us to capture all plastic materials, turn them into quality plastic, and reuse them again and again and again. there's a couple examples i would give you, something that you would use to get your food, that's -- foam food containers is another great example of what that breakthrough is. the point is this technology is not static. it evolves over time. in the work that this committee is doing in laying the foundation for global leadership is one i commend you for. >> thank you for that, and i agree. i think that is an appropriate role for congress. and then also, that education piece. i can tell you my own family, we get confused on what is recyclable, what is not. i'm an avid recycler. i hate the waste. but it is difficult, even going back and forth from d.c. and

various places in florida. i think those are appropriate roles and i look forward to working with this committee to move the ball forward. i yield my time. >> and with that, we're going to recognize our next member for five minutes of questioning. it looks like we might be moving to mr. beier for five minutes of questioning. you are now recognized -- pardon me. we're going to hold on you. we are going to recognize this man. >> thank you, madam chair. first things first, happy birthday. great to see your mom in the audience. not the virtual setting, but the real setting, since she had the role to play in the annual celebration.

we say thank you to her for delivering a great member of congress. so, i think you for holding today's hearing. for your efforts to advanced solutions to address our glowing cash growing -- growing plastic waste problem. more complex and multilayered products than it was ever designed to handle. our plastic recycling systems have not kept pace and when these systems are overwhelmed, we risk environmental damage, and most important, great danger to human health. we need swift and bold action at both ends of this problem, making investments with r&d with strong oversight while also focusing as a society and as a government on the urgent need to reduce the amount of plastic waste that we do indeed generate in the first place. when it comes to r&d, several federal agencies carry out r&d

and standards development programs related to plastics, recycling, and data gathering. i was astonished to learn there is no coordinated effort to facilitate multiagency collaboration to reduce plastic waste. what do you think the role of the federal government should be in supporting crosscutting r&d and the innovation necessary to waste reduction and recycling challenges? >> that is an excellent question. clearly, there needs to be coordination in terms of this r&d through the federal government so that we can most efficiently use our r&d resources to target the most significant challenges and bottlenecks in our system. and i really recommend -- we developed the first characterization -- you may have seen the diagram of the flow of plastics through the economy,

used markets, end-of-life. but some of the areas are incomplete. we don't have data in certain areas, understand what is going into what system. but i first recommend that we really do more in-depth characterization of a different resin and uses and end-of-life management strategies so we understand fully the problem. and then the solutions really need to be looked at so that we can develop infrastructure that's going to deal with products like buildings and automobiles versus packaging. so, i think that we, through a characterization through the streams, can then decide which types of materials we want to go after and what products.

so coordination is definitely key, and i think that starting out with an overall accounting of the problem will facilitate better use of resources. >> thank you. conductor hill meyer, i'm very concerned -- and dr. hill meyer, very concerned about the use of fossil fuel stocks. what environment of benefits are associated with your work in developing alternatives to fossil fuel based plastics? >> congressman, thank you for the question. it's pretty clear that turning to renewable resources for plastics will ultimately be the future in the long run, and the research associated with how to efficiently convert those materials from renewable resources like plants that sequester co2 is really a high priority. the bottom line is that the

ability to convert sugars from plants, the chemicals we can ultimately use to manufacture plastics, it requires fundamental research to support new technologies that stem from that because you're competing with an industry that is very efficient and has many efficiencies associated with the conversion of fossil resources. so we work on trying to understand how to use renewable resources, how to convert them efficiently in to molecules that have utility in the polymer and plastics arena, the basic research is coming along, but more effort is needed to make it more technologically and economically competitive with petrochemical he direct materials. >> thank you so much. and with that, i say welcome maria, and thank you chair stevens. i yield back. >> thank you so much. you really are the sweetest friend, mr. tonko. and with that, allow me to

recognize my colleague from ohio, who has really been a great collaborator on this work, mr. gonzales. >> thank you, madam chair, happy birthday, and thank you you to our witnesses for being here today and for your expertise. i agree, congress must get to work on ways to accelerate innovations and battery recycling, reduce the environmental impact and increase the economic value and security of domestic resources and supply chains. recycling and innovations in recycling need to be a key part of addressing the climate challenge, as mr. hilmeyer just discussed. it is important we consider an approach through coordination across relevant federal agencies. that's why i was proud to join the chairwoman in introducing the plastics waste and reduction and research act, and applaud her rude research -- her research on the issue.

mr. baca, i want to start with you. in your prepared remarks, you described accs work on labs. the question is, how is the department of energy's office of science uniquely positioned to conduct research to solve challenges in this space? >> congressman, thank you so much for this question. let me start off by saying this, all in regard to the comments about the climate challenge, first off. plastics overall have a much lower carbon footprint than any other material. they have been critical, as i mentioned in my statement, to lightweight vehicles and insulating homes. and some of the work that we're doing is focused on the ability to understand the lifecycle of plastic materials, ensure that we understand the impact on the environment. that work is currently happening. we've been working with national

laboratories. we work with the department of energy under plastics innovation challenge. the key thing is that this work is happening right now. we are working with some of the leading scientists in the world to examine and research the best ways to recover, reuse, and recycle plastic materials. i commend the work. there's a critical work for the department of energy to ensure we do plastic recycling going forward. >> as a follow-up, is there anything that should be done to facilitate more by other stakeholders or other agencies? and are there mechanisms needed to promote more partnerships through these programs? >> absolutely. we can always be doing more to promote more partnerships. many of us, our organization collaborates in groups like the recycling partnership, closed-loop partners to name a few, to create a circular system

here. that partnership is an excellent model in the sense we are able to capture more plastic and collaborate on solutions. the work being done by boe and the national labs, those findings should further inform the work we're doing. so es, part of the work committee can do is connect those dots to bring the stakeholders together to solve the problem of plastic waste that could require a tremendous amount of collaboration. not when industry is going to solve it. it is going direct wire -- require collaboration across the scientists, engineers, national labs, governments, ngos. connecting those dots would be a critical first step. >> my final question for you, there's sometimes at some false narratives about advanced recycling. could you discuss how important technologies will be to addressing the climate challenge? >> 100%. advanced recycling is a critical

component in solving the waste challenge. we are developing technology at a commercial scale. one is building a plastic to plastic facility in tennessee that's going to cost $250 million. it's going to be critical because what it does is it takes difficult parts to recycle last x, take a pouch manufacture today to keep food fresh. it requires less water produced. it's easy to transport from a carbon perspective, but it's very difficult to recycle. advanced recycling takes those types of items, breaks them down to their building blocks, and creates quality plastic that allows it to go into very demanding applications by pharmaceutical and medical, and advanced recycling is going to be key as part of that comprehensive strategy the congresswoman from texas mentioned, that follows the above strategy we need to solve

the problem. >> fantastic. thank you for that. thank you to our witnesses again and i yield back. >> and with that, we'll now recognize mr. beyer from virginia. >> thank you, madam chair, very much. and i want to thank your mother for doing the hard work 29 years ago and giving birth to you. i want to say that i'm very supportive of this act. i do believe that there is better living through chemistry. but i also think that the elephant in the room is, why not less plastics? we seem to be spending an awful lot of time with recycling's and plastics together, but long beach has banned a single-use plastic spill. there are 69 countries that have banned plastic bags.

a dozen band microbeads, including the united states and the u.k. you are all about sustainability. are we not missing a big piece of this just by thinking about better ways to use less plastics? >> yes. you make a very good point and observation. we really need to look holistically at solving our problems in terms of providing goods and services economically and sustainably. plastics do afford benefits of safety, protecting products. but we do really need -- we do a lifecycle assessment and look at the impacts of production, use, and retirement. and evaluate the total energy, we has gas emissions, and waste.

and there are definitely opportunities today where we could substitute materials. use more durable solutions. and reduce the use of plastics. plastics clearly have a critical role in our society, but i think we could be smarter with substitutions and -- because if we just focus on recycling, we could actually increase the proliferation of plastics and actually make recycling more challenging. and the volumes could go up, which means more resources. so, as you know, we are in a climate crisis. we need a different calculus about how we look at sustainable systems and solutions. and so i think it's really critical that when we evaluate innovations in recycling, infrastructure, we look from a lifecycle lens. and, you know, plastics are carbon intensive. there are other materials that are less carbon intensive but they do offer advantages. but you get these tradeoffs that

occur and it's important to use a system's approach to address it. mr. beyer: yeah, sometimes just little things you see on capitol hill, many members will carry around the big 32-ounce or 64 ounce water bottles, which is a huge improvement over buying yet another water bottle a dozen at a time. ms. harrison, you have a background in plastics, among other things, which scares the dickens out of me. the great pacific garbage patch is twice the size of texas. that's one of overwhelm five major garbage patches in the world. i just read we have up to two million tons of plastics per year in the oceans and rivers. what are we going to do to address this? ms. harrison: i think it gets back to your first question. i agree that recycling will not solve this. recycling is part of a circular economy, but it is not the solution. recycling is a reaction. recycling only happens when

there's a big enough pile that someone can turn into something new. if we wait for that pile to accumulate in the ocean, we have missed our opportunity to prevent it from happening in the first place. yeah, i started off by studying turtles. and a couple years ago, i was on a research ship that took corporate executives and actually my biologist, my lead biologist from college, she joined me on this trip, because i said, don't you want to join corporate executives in the middle of the ocean to see the plastics up front? and we jumped in the middle of the water. we jumped in the atlantic ocean 50 kilometers east of bermuda and we saw the microplastics. but we also saw mackerel, we saw fishing gear, we saw forks. if we wait for forks to be in the middle, we have waited too long. we have to talk about a system solution that takes into concepts -- that takes r&d concepts and marries them to

economic. i love this conversation about cross agency collaboration. we must think about it from a system point of view so we prevent the problem, not just clean up the problems. mr. beyer: thank you very much and i yield back, madam chair. chair stevens: thank you, and with that, allow me to recognize my friend and colleague, dr. baird, for five minutes of questioning. mr. baird: thank you, madam chair. and again, happy birthday. ranking member waltz and our witnesses, we appreciate you being here. and i appreciate ms. harrison mentioning hollywood, indiana, that makes outdoor furnitures out of detergent bottles. then just last week, i spoke to the e.r.i., which is the electronic recyclers international, a company located in my district, which specializes in electronics recycling. and while yes, this hearing

pertains and focuses on the plastics recycling, i believe that some of the themes remain the same when we view recycling at a global level. and this is an issue that you mentioned in your testimony, dr. keoleian, the united states exports waste to developing countries, which excludes both plastics and electronics waste. i discussed the national security and the counterfeiting which occurs from exporting electronics waste. but that is but one issue. and as such countries also present severe environmental harm by improperly disposing of these materials, that being plastics as well as the electronics, realistically, what's happening when such countries import these plastics, and is there anything we can be doing to help in the disposal and make sure it's handled properly?

dr. keoleian? dr. keoleian: yeah, so -- one thing, just focusing on electronic waste, i know the g.a.o. did a study and showed that there is a lot of illegal activity of exporting waste, hazardous waste. and so one activity that congress could do is strengthen the auditing and, you know, crack down more on the illegal activity because that is posing problems in terms of hazardous waste and how they're managed improperly in developing countries. so, and then we've talked about setting up the infrastructure here so we're not exporting it. i think we need to take responsibility, total producer responsibility, in terms of how our products are managed at end of life.

and we can't rely on exporting t . there is a recognition we also want leadership in setting up the systems to be able to properly manage products like electronics to reduce risk. so i think, one, accountability in terms of enforcement of the current regulations that we have on electronics waste that go a long ways. mr. baird: thank you for that. dr. hillmyer, in your testimony , you suggest biobase fuels, i'm changing direction a little bit, you suggest that biobased products would make for promising materials to use in places, some of the traditional manufacturing materials. and so, with my background, i'm interested in how agriculture might play a role in solving some of these issues and provide the raw materials for making alternative materials that would function for the same purpose.

so, do you have any comments in that regard? dr. hillmyer: congressman, thank you. absolutely. there is really -- i spoke about in my testimony biobased products and the idea that you would use annually renewable crops to generate not only new chemicals but incumbent chemicals that could be drop-in replacements for petroleum-based materials i think is an active and important area of research. one area that i think is important now is the ability to use non-nutrition biomass so that there is no disruption of the food chain. but, of course, it turns out it's a lot easier to process things like corn and sugar beets and other materials that have sugars that are more readily accessible to fermentation processes, for example.

that basic research and that fundamental understanding of how to convert those biobased resources into both new chemicals and drop-in replacements is in need of more effort and more research to make these things technologically viable. in the fullness of time, using, like i said nonnutritive biomass, is a really important goal for the industry. mr. baird: thank you. i see i'm out of time so i yield back, madam chair. chair stevens: perfectly on time. and with that, the chair's going to recognize dr. bill foster for five minutes of questioning. mr. foster: thank you, madam chair. mr. baca, first off, thank you for your shot out to argon national labs, not only because i represent them, but it's a perfect example, you know, the research you cited, of why this committee is committed on a bipartisan basis to doubling d.o.e.'s budget across the whole

range of missions. it's one small but important part. my question to anyone that wants to try, what do you do with high performance plastics? how do you deal with plastics that have glass fibers for structural strength or color? are there classes of really high performance plastics, high temperature epoxies and so on for which there is not going to be a realistic recycling scenario or -- what fraction of the current potential market is this? should we just focus on the generic plastics and acknowledge there is some classes, hopefully small volume, that are going to be really tough and we should for now give up on them? anyone want to take a stab? dr. hillmyer: i don't mind taking a stab, at least some aspect of it. i think you have an important point in that high performance

materials, for example composite materials, certainly have challenges associated with how to recycle them. the contemporary research in this arena in the thermoset arena is actually going on at the center for sustainable polymers is how are you able to reprocess these materials? thermosets are typically viewed as unreprocessable. but current research and dynamic exchange of covalent bonds allows for these materials to be reprocessed in ways that were not available before. so, while recycling, biodegradation, and other aspects of solving this waste dilemma are important i do think reuse and reprocessing of materials could play a role and may very well come along with the composite materials and fiberglass that's in there. i'll end by saying that, yes, these are a smaller portion of

our plastics waste dilemma. i do not think we should ignore it, but i think there are more pressing issues, such as the more common plastic packaging. mr. foster: does anyone -- how do you rebuild the future of this? are we going more and more to solvent type of recycling? what are the future technologies? or just do a really good job with chemical separation with robotics? what are the technologies that are going to end up being important in this? mr. baca: well, congressman, i'll take a shot at that. i think some of the work i talked about in regards to recycling is focused on plastic packaging. there is no doubt we can learn from how we scale it across other industries. we as a industry represent a variety of companies that do a variety of things in this space. one key area our company focused

in on is helping create a low-carbon future by light weighting vehicles and making them more energy efficient. we have been working -- we've already outlined a road map that deals with the issue of circulate in the automotive space. and it's going to require a lot more effort by work on this committee and government agencies. think about that r&d aspect of it because what we are doing right now is we're solving an issue from a carbon perspective. we now need to think about how we make these materials more sustainable and reutilize them over and over and over again. i was speaking to a sustainability fellow, and even thinking about their vision a little bit, with the electrification of cars, autonomous vehicles for instance, those parts are valuable. they have high value that could be used again and again. there is no doubt that more work needs to be done. my hope would be that some of the work and the breakthroughs on things like advanced recycling could extend into some these other applications. mr. foster: i think it's in

germany where they actually have requirements for recyclability of cars they are manufacturing? is that correct? you're talking about the dream of having, you know, cars that are assembled by robots at the factories. and then at the end of their life, they drive back to the factory and the say robots that put them together take them apart and separate them, melt down the plastic parts and cast them into new pieces. that serves as an ultimate end point. but the germans, i thought, were making some requirements already on cars. mr. baca: i don't know off the top of my head. we could get that submitted for the record. but i think your point is spot on. if you think of a futuristic world here and the manufacturing of vehicles, that vision you outlined is one that i think we wholeheartedly subscribe to. the material is super valuable. and has tremendous value. it's not waste. and if we could capture that material, break it down to its

building blocks and reuse it again, that's not just good for the environment. it's a sustainable product, it reduces our reliance on natural resources, and it's going to create circularity across a variety of industries. mr. foster: and motor oil spray all over it. i guess my time is up. yield back. chair stevens: thanks. and now the chair will recognize the congressman from michigan, peter meijer, for five minutes of questioning. mr. meijer: thank you, madam chair, and once again, on behalf of the michigan delegation, happy birthday. just wanted to again thank both our ranking member and our chair for hosting this hearing. and i think it's an incredibly important topic and one that in west michigan, we care deeply about. we have two landfills in our

largest county. one of which is nearing the end of its lifecycle and i'm proud to say our county and local officials are looking at ways to turn it into a sustainable business park to recapture the value stream that right now is being disposed of. and i want to also right now, appreciate the ranking member's remarks on the idea of the circular economy and what we can do to really close down some of those waste streams. and obviously, single use plastics is a main one. the plastics that are not getting recycled that are recyclable are also incredibly significant. ever since the 2018 national sword policy by china, we lost one of our most valuable output mechanisms and sorting mechanisms for dealing with that co-mingled but recyclable waste. we also have a very strong plastics industry and our third district that supports thousands of jobs. and chemical industry, auto manufacturing, and even in the package of breakfast cereals, battle creek in my district,

cereal city, u.s.a. so plastics plays a vital role. i guess one of my questions first for mr. baca, as we are thinking about single use plastics and compostable plastics coming onboard, and i know we've spoken about some of the difficulties of -- or just the contamination that can occur when compostable or biodegradable plastics are introduced into a recyclable plastic stream. i guess are there -- what are the opportunities to be shifting those single use applications into a biodegradable or compostable alternative? mr. baca: congressman, thank you for that question. and i think both of those are part of that all of the above solution that the congresswoman from texas mentioned here. i think the key point that i would mention regarding this, and this cuts across a variety of comments that were already made today. innovation is going to be what wins the day on solving this problem. not bans or more regulation.

innovation on how we deal with compatibility. innovation of how we create a circular economy for how we use valuable material over and over again. that is what circularitys what that will create is a low-carbon future that all of us want. because it would require us using less natural resources to create these products. so, to the specific point of your question, i think this goes back to the overarching theme what this committee is talking about today. more work is needed. we need to think and leverage the best of what we have, whether it's the department of energy, whether it's our national labs, whether it's the commerce department. all of these agencies play a very critical role in connecting the research spots to ensure science guides the expansion of things like biodegradability. research guides the things like compatibility. and collaboration continues to guide the work around circularity.

mr. meijer: thank you, mr. baca. it's good to welcome a wince from the great lakes state. i should note your professorship at the university of michigan is named for peter weggy, the son of west michigan, directed much of his energy and philanthropy into environmental causes. he joined the term economocology, combining the terms economy and ecology. very much a believer of that. care for the environment but doing so which is economically beneficial. i believe conservationism, but also conservatism, are using that lens. how should congress be approaching that lifecycle of plastic materials to have maximum benefit for the economy? dr. keoleian: well, in addition, we also look at lifecycle costs.

one example, we did a study for the state of oregon and bottled water versus reusable systems. and clearly there's -- using tap water and filling a container is going to be much more economical than using a disposable bottle. and, you know, the energy savings and the waste is significantly different. so, we need to be smart and really look at -- when we look at solutions, we do need to look at the economics. i believe we also need to look at certain regulations and standards because it's not just going to be innovation. i think it's critical that we take an interdisciplinary approach and bring together the economics, policy, technology, and behavior. mr. meijer: thank you, madam chair. my time is expired and i yield back. chair stevens: thank you, great questions.

with that, the chair is now going to recognize the congresswoman from the ninth state of north carolina, congresswoman ross. ms. ross: thank you very much, chairwoman stevens. and i hope this is a very, very happy birthday for you. i also want to thank our businesses for joining us today on this extremely important issue that affects people's everyday lives. in my home state of north carolina, we're one of the top plastic producers in the country. as of 2019, we were ranked in the top 10 in the country in terms of number of employees in the plastics industry, with over 38,000 employees. but we've also played an important role in plastic waste reduction and recycling innovation. in 2009, when i served in the north carolina state legislature, we were facing serious issues with litter and sea turtle deaths along the outer banks, one of the most pristine parts of our state. in response, we passed a law that bans single use plastic bags in six counties along the outer banks.

while this law was generally supported in those communities, it was repealed in 2017. in addition, we have researchers at north carolina state university in my district, who have been involved in plastic waste reduction and recycling research. in addition to the company previously mentioned, one graduate of n.c. state's college of textiles went on to found a sustainable clothing company that converts plastic bottles into fiber that is spun into yarn, knitted into fabric, and sewn into clothing. and i focused a lot in my questions about the next generation because we're such a stem focused area of the country. and so, to all the witnesses, i want to ask you how we inspire the next generation to get involved in stem fields, to be excited about recycling, and not using plastics in the first

place. we've seen so much leadership from the next generation about climate issues and about things like recycling. beyond teaching kids in school, how can we better encourage them to pursue education and careers like you all have. ms. harrison: i would be happy to jump in. as a graduate of a north carolina university, i am happy to have this research. my degree was in human ecology and natural resources. how we put this together. that's what i look for i'm inspiring young people and young diverse people to be involved. when we think of how we engage kids into this space, i think we often think about campaigns. we've all seen those. what we really need is to spark the innovation of our youth and to look into the system solution we keep talking about. we can't just r&d our way out. we can't just look for a singular technology.

we have to really think about pivoting from how do we respond to the problem to how do we prevent it in the first place? how do we know from the very concept of design whether it's an advanced plastic material like we were talking about or packaging? we know whether it's going to be linear, a landfill, or circular but it can become something else. that's what the partnership is doing to have diverse knit this space, to bring young minds to think about it holistically. ms. ross: i think i'm going to move on to my next question so i can get another one in. but if somebody wants to amplify, please answer. this is for dr. hillmyer. working on chemical recycling technology integrate a sustainable chemistry with your research in order to minimize or neutralize any potential byproducts of the chemical recycling.

dr. hillmyer: thank you, congresswoman. we work hard on this advanced recycling in the subset of chemical recycling and trying to understand the fundamentals of how you can take established plastics and ones that we design on purpose to be efficiently chemically recycled. and we commented about use of solvent in green chemistry ways that don't require a solvent , that require things like maybe temperature or light that allow -- allow you to turn plastics that are useful in their everyday application officially -- application efficiently back to the molecules from which they came. if we can do that, those new molecules can then generate virgin plastic that has the same benefit.

ms. ross: thank you, madam chair, and i yield back. chair stevens: thank you, and with that, we are going to recognize dr. connor lamb, congressman from the nice state of pennsylvania for five minutes of questioning. mr. lamb: thank you, madam chair. yes, we are nice. so nice in fact that on behalf of the whole state we would like to wish you a happy birthday today as well. to our witnesses, thank you for hanging on this long. dr. hillmyer, i kind of wanted to pick up where i think you were leaving off, which is, of course our jurisdiction on this committee really is to try to move forward the nation's research agenda and help answer kind of unanswered questions, particularly ones of a longer term nature that individual businesses might find problematic to enter on their own. so, would you mind just summarizing or commenting on the state of knowledge about where we're going in composting and the breakdown of so-called

biodegradable recyclables and plastics, and maybe give me a little bit more specific insight into if there's two or three big questions that we can really help answer, say, in the next decade, what are they? dr. hillmyer: thank you, congressman. this is an area i'm passionate about and interested in. and i'll reiterate what i said earlier, this biodegradation, over what timeframe and under what conditions? and i think this is where the basic research plays a key role. understand exactly what happens. let's say an industrial compost at high temperature and high humidity as opposed to maybe backyard compost or in the environment. and how to differentiate between the chemistries and fundamental processes that go on in those different environments so you can understand and predict the lifetimes of these materials in the environment. the second piece that's important, i think, is what do

they break down to, and how do we understand we're not just generating, for example, smaller shards of plastic that are recalcitrant? so, following it all the way through the breakdown process and understanding both the physical phenomena anti-chemical phenomena are critically important. and we have researched really trying to understand those fundamental processes, how do fundamental organisms breakdown will ultimately results from the hydraulics or biodegradation of compatible plastics? i view this, again, as a piece of the solution to plastic waste. but it will come with infrastructure and clear education and understanding of what is meant by compostable and how the process is actually -- processes actually take place. i think this is a contemporary area of research. more research is needed to understand the design factors. what you might build into the plastic to have it break down in efficient ways. and i love the idea of a systems

approach where its design of molecules, evaluate performance, end of life scenarios that allow a complete lifecycle to be understood at a very fundamental level. mr. lamb: well, i very much appreciate that and i think the chairwoman will help us advance us toward that goal. do any of our other witnesses want to answer my question in the 1:50 i have remaining in clarifying the specific question that you would like to see us answer in the next decade or so. ms. harrison: i'd say quickly that i really encourage this committee to, when they think about composting i very often hear people thinking about composting and recycling. because recycling seems hard. when we pivot to what else, we have to ask ourselves is the list for making plastics compostable even longer. currently, 4% of u.s. population have access to that commercial

composting. that's significantly less than those who have access to traditional recycling. so i want to make sure we're not pivoting to something because the current problem seems hard. but from the very concept of the idea, make sure we have a good solution. dr. keoleian? dr. keoleian: yeah, i would just add we think of composting as very positive. i put the compost in my garden, it's a soil amendment. but what we're talking about here is litter, avoiding the litter. it's a lost resource. this is plastic that has embodied energy in it and we're just dissipating it into the environment to deal with the litter problem. i think we have to look at critically what we want to make compostable. so, i think, again, it's back to holistic solutions.

mr. lamb: i really appreciate [inaudible] if we can get the chairwoman's bill passed, it will certainly move us down the road to answering some of that. appreciate your presence and insights. madam chairwoman, i yield back. chair stevens: thank you. and what a nice note to begin to close the hearing out on. because it's true we've got a tremendous piece of legislation. and this hearing was the kickoff for this legislative session to really make sure that we're on the right track and hearing from stakeholders from across the spectrum, with mr. baca being from the american chemistry council that, if you heard in his testimony, and i'll repeat it again, is very dedicated to the all hands on deck approach. and also bringing in the expertise that we need to hear from to keefe harrison, has her finger on the pulse of what's

going on across the country. and dr. marc hillmyer, who i feel like i could, along with dr. keoleian, your just wealth of knowledge and dedication both with keoleian, dr. keoleian at the weggy school as mr. meijer referenced, was an american hero and so dedicated to our state of michigan, both sides of the state of michigan. and, you know, dr. hillmyer, sometimes people confuse michigan and minnesota, but we know you're on the other side of the lake, a couple of other sides of the lake. and we can debate who really is the land of many, many lakes. but we really are grateful for your dedicated research and your time today. and where we find ourselves in this legislative session is really at -- i think the tipping point of something tremendous. we called today's hearing, moving from staggering statistics, if you recall hearing me share that just 9% of

our recycling -- 9% of our plastics is recycled. how do we increase that? how do we even begin to think about doubling that to sustainable systems? the systems component, moving from staggering statistics to sustainable systems is so important because we hear about the individual enthusiasm and the consumer enthusiasm and even as ms. ross was referencing in her questions and what she's seeing in her district in north carolina, with individual entrepreneurs and business leaders, but we really do need a systems approach. and this also comes as a unique time as the united states is charting the path forward on our broader infrastructure, as well. ok, it does look like, as i was filibustering here, a colleague from another -- another colleague from the nice state of pennsylvania, congresswoman susan wilds, has come in for questions.

so allow me to pause on my preamble and recognize her for five minutes of questioning. ms. wild? ms. wild: i'm sorry. i'm juggling three committees this morning. i'll keep it short. i have been listening to as much of this hearing i could because it's a topic of great personal interest to me. and so, what i'd really just -- i'll just throw this out there to dr. keoleian. a recent study concluded that large amounts of plastic would accumulate in the environment even if we used every currently feasible effort to achieve an 80% reduction in plastic solution by 2040. you and other experts agree that designing materials for recyclability will be key to sustainable plastic waste reduction. what steps do we need to take to ensure coordination between product design and options for

end of life plastic management? that's going to be my only question because i know it's a big, far ranging question. dr. keoleian: so, one of the things i recommended that we emphasize in terms of the r&d, in terms of the investment there and the research, is that we have industry participate with the scientists, with government, to look at what kinds of policies can help make innovations more implementable or accelerate the implementation, and also even community partners. so we really need to look at co-creation of solutions. i think that will be really beneficial in terms of ensuring that we're going to coordinate between product design and end of life.

so, we need to bring the o.e.m.'s that make automobiles in with marc's group and also involve, you know, those that are responsible for end of life recycling infrastructure. so i think that interdisciplinary approach and co-creation of solutions is important. and then the other is we really need to look at, you know, europe really helped push reducing the amount of waste in automobiles with their guidelines. it was mentioned about germany. well, the europe's guidelines on automobiles to reduce the amount of auto shredder residue, the amount of waste. and those kinds of policies can also help accelerate solutions that are technological. and so i think that's important, as well. ms. wild: thank you, i have to

say, and this comes -- i have a personal experience not too long ago where i was on an island in the caribbean. cry me a violin, right? sounds so sad. one of the things -- it was a very particular island. one of the things that struck me, there are lots of places in the world that have a tremendous amount of trouble moving their trash, quite honestly, because of being ocean locked. i understand those concerns. as a result, i have saw little to no effort to recycle because they had trouble getting plain old trash off the island let alone dealing with plastics recycling. but it was tragic because here i was in a beautiful place with just an abundance of plastic waste all over the place. and so i think we're going to have to get to the point where manufacturers are looking at that end of life solution, that

end of plastic life management where there's some way other than just -- because this is such a global problem. and if we don't look at global solutions, we're just never going to solve it. so thank you very much for your input. thank you all. it's been very, very helpful. the parts i was able to participate in and listen to. i really enjoyed. thank you. madam chair, i yield back. chair stevens: excellent. well, congratulations to my colleague for her three hearings and managing to make it in for this one because your voice and viewpoints are very important to us. and we are going to bring the hearing to a close. we don't have any more questions. i do want to thank our science committee staff on both sides of the aisle. i'm here in the committee room and it is absolutely set up expertly with great professionalism. we were able to do this in a

hybrid format as we start to kind of come back to the way things were. and that's never a light switch, as we've been learning in this pandemic. but we were able to achieve the success and goal of this hearing. and frankly, we're in a nice springboard, as i was saying, to what's next. and we're going to continue to leave the record open for two weeks for additional statements from members or additional questions that members may have of the witnesses. i know we are going to continue to draw down on the expertise of this great panel of witnesses. and so at this time, the witnesses are going to be virtually excused. they're going to be excused and the hearing is now adjourned. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]

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>> prooint spoke earlier today about a bipartisan deal reached on infrastructure legislation. the president urged congress to pass the proposal.