michele steinberg as wildfires breakout in the western u.s. join the discussion with your phone calls, text messages, and tweets. washington journal is next. ♪ host: good morning. live view of the u.s. capitol on a rainy saturday morning. the house back in session next week. the senate beginning a two week holiday recess and president biden spending the week at camp david. it is saturday, june 26. we begin with the issue along the border after vice president harris visited the area in el paso. we are dividing the phone lines as we always do. republicans (202)-748-8000,

democrats (202)-748-8001, independents (202)-748-8002. if you live along the border, (202)-748-8003. we are also taking messages on facebook at facebook.com/c-span, on twitter @c-spanwj, or you can send a text to (202)-748-8003. let's begin with the headlines. the front page of the washington post, derek chauvin, the sentencing. we carried it live right here. 22.5 years for the killing of george floyd. wall street journal, the horrific story outside miami in florida. there was nothing a survivors recount the collapse. 159 still missing and the death toll continues to climb. front page of the new york times, georgia is sued by the justice department over the voting law.

we want to begin with the headlines along the border from las cruces, new mexico. the visit of the vice president. most people don't want to leave home, referring to what is happening along the southern triangle, and this headline from the texas tribune as kamala harris focuses on the causes of immigration. here are the details, republican officials, including greg abbott, have said the biden administration's immigration policies, which, in many cases, reverse those of donald trump, have more migrants seeking to enter the u.s.. there were 180,000 apprehensions last month compared to 20,000 in late 2020. during the trump administration the highest recorded was nearly 150,000. that this morning from the texas tribune.

before departing el paso she spent under five hours in the city and along the border. these were her remarks. [video clip] >> as you have heard me say many times i strongly believe that most people don't want to leave home and when they do it is because either they are in harm or because they cannot provide for their family. that belief has been reinforced throughout our day-to-day. whether it was when i met with children who were unaccompanied minors or i met with leaders who have been on the ground in el paso for many years doing work that is directly about supporting and interacting with folks who are immigrating to the united states and who are crossing this border. my trip to guatemala and mexico was about addressing the root

causes. the stories that i heard and the interactions we had today reinforced the nature of those causes. lack of economic opportunity, very often violence, corruption, and food insecurity, and the basic needs not being met, including the fear of the cartel and gang violence. so, the work that we have to do is the work of addressing the cause, the root causes, otherwise we will continue to see the effects, what is happening at the border. host: with air force one behind her vice presidenther vice press speaking before leaving the region. from foxnews.com this is the headline on her visit, harris snaps at a question about border trip delays saying it is not my

first trip. here are the details . -- receive an operational briefing. it comes after harris was hammered by republicans and democrats over her failure to visit the border and instead visiting mexico and guatemala and unveiling initiatives to end violence, corruption, and climate change in southern mexico. is the issue along the border any worse than it has been the past few decades? from georgia, billy is first up. welcome to the conversation. go ahead please.

caller: something msnbc is talking about. you think illegals are coming in because of poverty and violence. that's not true. the reason they are coming back is they claim they are getting there lands back. host: we go to tyrone in new york city. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. this immigration situation is a good way to keep this whole hatred thing going along. if we follow the laws that are already on the books, we will be able to mitigate how many people are coming in and why they are coming in. but we don't want to fix -- a certain amount of us don't want to fix -- we want to have this back and forth so we just have this practically free labor. we will be able to take advantage of it. that is why we don't want this

fixed. steve, i want to say, i hope you have a good life and i understand you are leaving and you understand that people will hate you regardless, but take care and be healthy. i hope you have a good time. host: thank you. thank you very much. ron in california on the republican line. caller: good morning. i have to recant that. great having you back. it is a fresh air blowing through the c-span window. there is a couple of issues regarding this immigration that nobody wants to talk about. let's start with the minimum wage. 23 states have a minimum wage of $7.25. only immigrants are going to take jobs for that because they

are off the books. if we had a $15 an hour across this country, you know what? the kids during summer school and all that time, they would all be working regular jobs. the whole thing is interconnected. one of the things about this border thing is they are still not addressing daca. they should certainly be getting that off the label and then we are talking about immigration reform which nobody wants to do anything about. it is a three legged stool that is not being addressed. people have to understand, our whole system is changing right now. we are going through a change of massive proportions and we have got to deal with the basic lifestyle of people. here in california most people, it costs 45%, 50% of income just

to have a roof over their heads. that is an unsustainable type of system. you have the haves and the have nots. i want you to know great having you back and it is like a breath of fresh air. host: thank you. if you are just joining us, we are getting your reaction to the visit yesterday. her first official visit by kamala harris as she toured a facility in el paso, texas spending about 4.5 hours in the area. republicans (202)-748-8001, democrats (202)-748-8000, and if you live along the border, join in at (202)-748-8003. live look at the scene from yesterday as donna joins us from texas. thank you for being with us. caller: good morning. how are you doing? host: we are fine. how are you doing?

caller: doing wonderful. i want to talk about the educational aspects of this. here in the dallas-fort worth area i were students are very academically -- i am talking students from america -- academically very low, very behind, grades are not great, the graduation rates could be much better, and a lot of times we get this huge influx of these children. they don't speak the language and the school districts are beginning to ask teachers to demand them to speak spanish and learn spanish to communicate with the students and parents. that is becoming a big problem here in texas, the language barrier. i wanted to address that and i think the influx of illegal immigrant coming in with a lot

of children is really hampering the american students that are in school. i just wanted to make a quick comment about that. it is doubly difficult to deal with the american students and their academic success and also compounding that with illegal immigration. host: thank you for the call. this is a text from mark in maryland, the most effective way for the biden administration to fix the root causes of immigration is to pursue making the three northern triangle countries the 51st u.s. state. dave saying, hopefully vice president harris can do something by slowing down the search. immigration will never stop at the border as long as both parties ridicule each other. from bob in illinois, the catastrophe at the border of the biden administration's own making. it is the worst in 25 years. biden is enticing the masses with free stuff even our vets cannot get.

this is from thehill.com from governor desantis, sending 50 offers to enforce the border in texas. he is considering a 2024 presidential bid. mark on the phone from vienna, virginia, democrats . caller: good morning. i think the root cause of the migration crisis is prohibition of cocaine and other drugs. without addressing that prohibition than this migration crisis will continue to happen. there is economic instability in honduras, guatemala, el salvador, northern mexico, and because the drug prices are so high the gangs keep coming through and they keep destabilizing the communities they are operating in. then those people have to run to the american border.

we are creating the prohibition, we are creating the situation where there is an incentive for the cartels to continue to bring drugs into the country. the problem is i think lawmakers are being threatened by the cartels so nobody really wants to do large-scale reform of prohibition. host: how is that happening? who specifically is being threatened? caller: i cannot tell you specifically. 50% of the funding of congress around citizens united super pac's and there's also dark money involved. i can tell you that no cartel leader wants to see drugs legalized. because of the insane profits and if there is advantage for them to send money

to lawmakers to keep prohibition on the books, you know, they probably will. host: they can track that money if you're running for federal office. caller: not in all cases. i mean, there is opensecrets.org where you can see all that. but there can also be payoffs, under the table payoffs and things like that. i don't want to speculate on that. all i want to say is that the cartel leaders don't want drugs legalized and that is the root cause for why there is so much pressure in that area for the migrants to have to run to the border. host: thank you for adding your voice. elvin says, taking a photo op with a border patrol agent does not count. why not visit the detention

facility where the children are being housed? yesterday the house republican leader kevin mccarthy with this reaction to vice president harris and her visit to texas. [video clip] >> after delaying more than three months vice president harris is finally headed to the border. we are excited about that. she voiced traveling to the border for more than 90 days and in that short time of three months there has been more than half a million encounters. i know she went to other countries before she even went down to the border. of the number of migrant children crossing the border is on the rise. this news comes from the same week when reports of despair and isolation at the migrant facilities. i hope she takes the time to talk to the border agents, listen to them. when i was down there, and she's going to el paso, that is the

location we had caught people on the terrorism watchlist. not from central america, but from yemen. when i came back to the press conference and reported it we remember the congressman set i was a liar. i still have not gotten an apology but i would have thought they would have been very concerned about those on the terrorist watch list coming across the border because that was not the last time that happened. but i haven't seen any action taken. host: that was from the house republican leader kevin mccarthy. more of your phone calls on the vice president's visit, her first, in the first to deal with the situation by the border. she was joined by secretary mayorkas. larry in massachusetts on the republican line. caller: good morning.

in boston i direct wraparound services in folks' homes. we have seen when they drop kids over the wall. they pay the cartel to get those kids here. they have got relatives here. they are mostly illegal. harris going to the border, right? [indiscernible] the biggest group to get hurt by these illegal immigrants are black americans. why? you drop these in the ghettos. our schools are overrun, housing overrun. the very group on the bottom who needs attention are

american-born blacks. [indiscernible] these kids have relatives they are being united with. don't think they don't have nobody. most of these folks are illegal. host: thank you. bc venice, regular tweeter, saying immigrants will come no matter who occupies the white house. we start without them and we will start without them. it's politicized to foment hate and fear, tools of the right. the vice president saw to emphasize her designated role is to grapple with the forces that push migrants to head to the u.s. rather than manage problems that the border, an argument that has done little to shield

her from attacks from the left and right. that from inside the washington post. we go to dave in south carolina, independent line. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. until we properly punish the employers taking advantage of these desperate people we are not ever going to have a handle on the situation. we are letting people get away with literal murder and bringing in slave wages to this country. i am in favor of bringing desperate people into this nation, i am. that is why we are here. i think until we begin to punish the people that are doing the hiring the situation is only going to worsen. thank you very much. host: thank you. this is from dave in orlando, hopefully the vice president can

do something by helping slow down the surge with support of the other countries. emigration will not stop at the border as long as both parties ridicule each other. before leaving el paso, more with the vice president where these remarks to reporters. [video clip] >> we had this conversation about what is happening at the border. let's not lose sight of the fact we are talking about human beings. let's not lose sight of the fact we are talking about stories that, as the bishop in many community folks here tell of abuse and fear and harm, not only for those coming here in their own country but along the path of migration. let's recognize with a sense of humanity that these issues must be addressed in a way that is informed by fact and reality and informed by perspectives that is

dedicated to addressing problems and fixing them in the most constructive and productive ways. the president and i are absolutely committed to ensuring that our immigration system is orderly and humane and i do believe we are making progress in that regard. host: that was the vice president yesterday in el paso, texas. her remarks, as with all programming, is available on c-span.org. the headline from politico.com, the vice president trying to shift the narrative with regard to the border. you can read it at politico.com and here are some of the details from eugene daniels, the politics of immigration are unavoidable as the vice president tours a u.s. custom border patrol central processing facility. meets with immigration advocates in el paso. allies and democrats agreed the trip was necessary to put weeks

of bruising republican criticism behind her and serve as a counterpoint to former president donald trump who will visit a different part of the border next week. you can expect this issue to come up tonight. the former president is in wellington, ohio. we will have live coverage beginning at 7:00 eastern here on c-span, on the web, and on the free c-span radio app. former tonight at 7:00 p.m. eastern, 4:00 on the west coast. this is from larry in new jersey with a text message, anyone who thinks these poor and unfortunate people are not desperate to walk 1000 miles or jumping the train or hitchhiking in strange countries, they need help or at least our compassion. joanne, thank you for waiting. republican line. caller: good morning. hey, i called you about a month ago.

host: i remember that. caller: she doubled down. my gosh, i can't believe it. host: when you brought that up i thought of that. thank you for sharing that story with us. caller: yeah. the trip was a regular trip for this administration. they just can't seem to get -- host: joanne, sorry about that. glad to hear from you but you have to avoid the profanity. caller: mark, go ahead. caller: this is a canned that has been kicked down the road my entire life and i'm in my 50's. if they solve this problem, they lose the fundraising so money is the root. they really need to get money out of politics. host: thank you. fort wayne, indiana, david, you are next on the independent line. caller: good morning.

how are you? host: good. how are you? caller: good thank you. my sister was one of the very first operators when c-span opened up and i ended up going to high school with peter who was one of your primary reporters. i just wanted to throw that out there. host: who is your sister? caller: i dealt want to say. host: ok. caller: but i am an amateur foreign relations. we need to take 100,000 troops to america and send them packing down to columbia because there is where the drug problems have happened. weed out all the corruption and revolutionize american democracy.

that will solve a lot of the problems because right now we have these banana republics. all these people are trying to escape all the persecution and all the revolution and all the people down in these -- evil down in these countries. what is it, the munro doctrines from the 1800s? we need to clean up western democracy and that will solve a lot of these problems from panama all the way up to mexico into the united states. revolution for america and freedom for these people and then we don't have these southern border problems. let's not dink around with these poor people. i feel sorry for them. i would hate to be a refugee with a bunch of kids trying to come up here, trying to make a living in america.

50,000, 100,000 troops, let's get out of pakistan, afghanistan, let's get out of syria and all these other countries. bring these people over here because we have got to pay these guys anyhow. once we get in there with 100,000 troops are so all of these scumbag whatever, they are going to get out of town and then we won't have these problems. it is costing us trillions of dollars with all the stuff. thank you very much. this is my first time calling. host: really? good to hear from you. we will send peter your best wishes and to your sister for one of the early employees. thank you for sharing. caller: send my sister my death wishes. that's just a joke but there is this woman named allison sanger.

she is a russian studies person and i have been to end up going to high school with her. she has made quite the reputation for herself also. but life just happens and, you know, you end up with all these people. there's a guy in my aircraft carrier in the navy and has written several books. me, i'm just the town drunk and village idiot. have a happy fourth of july and thank you very much. my first time calling but i just wanted to throw my $.10 into the debate. have a great day. host: thank you. from the associated press, vice president lamenting the infighting over immigration. this text message from mac saying the trip to the border was nothing more than a disgusting political joke. nothing was accomplished but another cover-up of the truth. carolyn is joining us from

alexandria, virginia on the democrat line. caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i used to be one of these people that felt very bad about what they had to go through coming to the united states. but when you live around them it is a different thing. they come here, they overcrowd the housing, the apartments, they don't go by the rules, they bring three or four families in one apartment, they are overwhelming our system, the welfare system, anything is free . you can get in the door for anything. they are overwhelming the school system. there are not enough teachers. the kids are not learning nothing because there are too many kids in the classroom.

they have to teach them english and it is overwhelming our system and the united states is getting overwhelmed and overcrowded. host: thank you. this text message from cameron in seattle, this is simpson all over again. we will end up with the same results. all the amnesty and none of the enforcement. the headline from cnbc.com on the vice president's visit, the former vice president mike pence after the reagan library last thursday, the speech we have available on our website, he talked about the issue of immigration. [video clip] >> america is the most welcoming nation in the history of the world and has been enriched by immigration throughout our nation's story. [applause]

my own grandfather immigrated to this country from ireland. american families are proud. proud of the opportunities that were extended to our families and our heritage. but as president trump continually warned us a nation without borders is not a nation. the american people have a right to expect that our borders are secure and our laws are respected. [applause] by unwinding policies that reduced illegal immigration at the southern border by 90% the biden administration has unleashed the worst crisis in the history of the southern border. and as a party and conservatives we must demand the completion of the border wall and end to

asylum and all the policies that ended illegal immigration on the southern border. host: david is joining us from texas. good morning. caller: how you doing this morning? host: good. how are you, sir? caller: i'm blessed, man. america forgot to put god first. on the back of the money, in god we trust. what happened? everybody forgetting to trust in god. everybody pointing the finger at anybody instead of pointing at themselves. you have the government, the president doing the best he can, for stuff been going on with the border wall a long time. the cartel and stuff, they run that stuff because somebody is letting them slide through. somebody is letting them slide but they get paid dirty money under the table. it is not going to stop.

it has been going on since my grandparents were alive. what's going to stop it is putting god first in putting your foot down and putting what you are supposed to because united we stand. we don't have it no more. we have all these diseases coming in, new disease coming in in dallas worse than the coronavirus. what's going on? there are too many indians and not enough chiefs. i mean, too many chiefs and not enough indians. we are also posted pull together. we are all human beings in the image of god. but the only way people can put things together is quitclaimed everybody and look at yourself. host: i will leave it there. tony has this saying, i'm tired of hearing how every problem is our fault. they speak spanish. anyone think the people who oppose the language on them that have anything to do with the

conditions? it is just past 7:30 in the east and we are focusing on the vice president's visit to el paso, texas. headline from the wall street journal, kamala harris visits the border amid bipartisan pressure. yesterday at the white house she was asked about her trip to el paso. [video clip] >> how did the vice president choose el paso as her trip to the border site? >> that is a great question. i was interested in that as well. i would say el paso has an interesting history as you may know. it was the place where the former president, it was a base place, of where he put in his immigration policy we felt were so problematic. it is a place that has a little bit of historical connection in that regard and an opportunity to draw the contrast with what we're trying to accomplish. host: that was from the

yesterday press briefing. inside the new york times, harris seeking new talks on migration debate. john in arlington, virginia, independent line. thank you for waiting. caller: that last caller talked about the dollar bill. i think he is ignorant because they got represented on the dollar bill is the god of the fourth of july, cirrus. when the earth is furthest from the sun. host: david in west virginia, good morning. caller: good morning. just wanted to say i enjoy watching your show all of time. when kamala harris went to guatemala and different places

the president interviewed some of the people and one lady was asked why did she sent her eight-year-old to the border? the family down the street sent her son and the reason they sent her son is because villagers are starving. they have had to work droughts the past two years and not able to grow food. another lady at the border had her daughter there and asked why she came. she said, well, the terrorists killed my husband and my 12-year-old son. we have no home to go to. i would just ask what would jesus do if he went to the border? thank you for the call. host: sue from new jersey saying, correct me if i'm wrong, but a border has two sides.

where are the vice president and president of mexico when it comes to fixing this problem? this is from the london guardian, the u.s. mexico border situation is tough but claims progress. randy is joining us from wisconsin. good morning. caller: good morning. i am going to pick on you a little bit on your question of the day. i am a 72-year-old vet but she didn't visit the border. she flew into el paso airport, had a brief conference, and then she flew over to california. she never seen anything on the border. that is very misleading question today. that is about all i have to do but i am a white man of color. just wanted to make that statement. host: thank you. john joining us from tampa, florida. caller: hello.

nafta, harris talks about the root causes of this immigration flood into our country. nafta, signed by bill clinton in 1993, ended up killing 2 million small mexican farms. that contributed to the traffic of illegal aliens flooding into america and the criminal human trafficking and drug cartels. it was like a catalyst in the 1990's. then george w. bush signed the central american free trade agreement which probably ruined those countries as well for the regular people all to get a few, relatively few, bad actors very wealthy. she talks about the root causes, trump solved the problem. the border was controlled under trunk and biden reverses the trump pro america policies and

now you have a flood of illegal aliens and you are getting the cartels rich. very, very rich transporting all types of illegal aliens, deadly drugs into the country, and biden is doing this because he simply serves the biggest money that comes to him which is from china and other bad actors who hate america. host: john from florida, thank you for the call. ted hesson will be joining us later with his perspective on the situation along the border and the visit by vice president harris. the other story that gets a lot of attention in miami-dade the headline from the new york times, frustration grows as the search missions so far leading to few rescues. the death is slowly rising but confirmation as many as 159 individuals are missing, many presumed dead, in that collapse in the early hours of thursday morning.

the story from the new york times pointing out crews already wading through thigh deep water with rising groundwater and previously doused fires. pouring more water onto the site could destabilize the rubble and anyone trapped inside. according to the local firefighters union, the emergency workers letting the fires burn and tearing through the debris to get to the source of the flames and yank it off site. that was from the new york times on the situation in surfside florida and that condo that collapsed. 55 units destroyed in just a matter of seconds. from aurora, colorado ray is next on the independent line. caller: good morning. registered libertarian, happen to be albanian american. i heard from earlier the washington journal that you're no longer going to be on c-span. i want to wish you the best and

wanted to get one call with you before you leave. i'm going to miss you. root causes [laughs] i don't know how big they are going to commit to really coming up with solutions. first of all as i have said many times on this program, i believe in opening the border or giving back the statue of liberty. increasing legal opportunities to come in but we also have to address the damage the u.s. has caused to these other countries down south ranging from military operations that tends to destabilize countries. also the drug war. these drug cartels are modern-day al capones.

as prohibition proved back then this drug war -- we have lost. we might as well just legalize drugs and that will put a damper to all the cartels. as a former floridian my heart goes out to all those victims on surfside. that's what i want to say and best of luck to you, steve. host: thank you. there was a story on cnn that building in 2018, engineers saying it had structural flaws. certainly a lot of questions in the tragedy that took place. the headline from inside the wall street journal on the delta variant, the virus outbreak continues. authorities in israel and australia imposing new covid-19 restrictions in response to the highly infectious delta variant while india warning of a new mutation, emphasizing how the morphing pathogen continues to put off pre-pandemic life. that accounting for 20% of new

cases in the u.s. and upwards of 50% to 75% across great britain. anthony in virginia beach on the vice president in el paso, texas yesterday. caller: congratulations on you moving on. the first thing i would like to say is trump is 100% right. as far as where biden-harris is concerned, they want the in flood of these illegals because that is their plan. furthermore, blacks are the ones being hurt the most. this stuff is going to push black people to the back of the bus and as far as the future of america, the same mess going on in central america will be present on this land and we will not be able to deal with it.

this to me is nothing more than a plan to destroy this whole country as it stands. that is how i feel about it. host: anthony from virginia beach. marcy in kansas, mccarthy and fox news need to familiarize themselves with the definition of cause versus effect. the border is in effect, not the cause. perhaps mccarthy should tackle the problem instead of trying to trash someone really working on the problem. how much will be paying mexico to keep them on their side? another headline that got a lot of attention yesterday by the justice department as the u.s. is suing georgia over voter restrictions. here are some of the details from the washington post saying, the justice department officials announcing a federal lawsuit against georgia over statewide voting restrictions that federal authorities allege purposely discriminate against black americans. the first major action by the biden administration to confront, what it describes,

limiting election turnout. brian kemp, the governor of georgia, saying the new law encourages voting, including enhancing early voting. that was from the front page of the washington post. from georgia, william, good to hear from you. republican line, go ahead. caller: i would like to say this, if president trump was still president, we wouldn't be having this conversation. the only problem is because your friend joe biden became president because of flunkies like you that work for him. that's all have to say. i wish you well on your new job. host: we go to james in pennsylvania, republican . n line. caller: how are you this morning? host: good. how are you? caller: good.

i wanted to comment on the border. trump had this thing fixed and when you open the border up you don't have any regulations. this is what causes all the problems we have. however, i don't like the bashing that goes on between the two parties. vice president harris went to the border but actually didn't go to the border. but i hope at some point they actually go to the border and look to see what is going on and find a way to fix this. also, i wanted to reach out to all the people in florida. my prayers and best wishes go for all of them. i hope down the road we can actually find a way to work for the better of the united states and not by parties, but have everybody working to make the u.s. a better country.

we need to take care of people coming into the country but make sure they are coming in legally and keep the criminals out and the good people in. that is what the united states is about. host: james, how do we get there? how do we do that? caller: how you do that is by putting restrictions on the countries and making sure they are not letting criminals come into the country. also, i think we need to get better people, better trained people, more people that actually work the walls and put up -- continue to put a better enforcements with walls and better people where these people can come in. limit the number of people coming in because we cannot just allow thousands and thousands of people to come into this country and bring all kinds of

infections, diseases, or drugs, guns and ammo. you have to have better restrictions, better qualifications, and work with these other countries of who is getting in and who is being held up. host: thank you for the call. npr has the headline at npr.org, kamala harris telling residence in guatemala not to migrate to the united states. dan caldwell, senior advisor with concerned veterans for america, will be joining us at 8:00 eastern. another 10, 15 minutes of calls and comments on vice president harris who was in el paso yesterday. will it make a difference? how would you fix it? denise is joining us from raleigh, north carolina. caller: thank you. i am going to be very quick. i think we need to look at solutions. one of those solutions is to

enforce our immigration laws already on the books. and concerning ms. vice president harris, she went to the border but she went with no solutions. i do want to say this, no one -- i don't believe anyone in america has any problem with illegal immigration. i was in the -- legal immigration. i was in the school system for many years. one of the thing the american people do not know, when children come into this country they come into our school system. they do not have to be immunized until sixth grade. that is why we have had an increase in various childhood diseases. now, in america we need to look at solutions and that is whatever party is in office.

that is what they need to deal with. host: thank you for the call. jan has this sweet, harris went to the border but didn't go to the border? this from a viewer in texas saying, are we going to pretend 90% of latin american tragedy is a consequent of the u.s. war on drugs? this is the headline from the el paso times, further developments from the visit to el paso. fernando garcia, the executive director for border network for human rights bnhr, said the meeting was brief but a success. he announced the results that harris was wrapping up her first visit to the border as an immigration activist and community organizers held a demonstration at the paso del norte bridge. harris met with our organizations where garcia said he only had literally minutes.

he said the vice president listened to his comments about solutions for humanitarian issues. garcia encouraged the vice president to change the narrative all along the border to humanizing immigration. [indiscernible] that story from the el paso times where the vice president was yesterday. jerry joining us from pittsburgh, texas. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. people tend to think of the cartels doing this but i'm wondering who buys the backpacks and the new shoes and the cell phones and the masks and the t-shirts that say "biden, s and." -- "biden, let us in."

the moving on the trains and trucks in mexico, but 2000 came from romania that flew into mexico. they are coming from africa, central america, and all of europe. who is playing for their flight? these people don't have $10,000 to pay the cartel or they would stay where they were at if they were that wealthy and a third world country. who is paying for this invasion? host: jerry from texas, thank you for the call. headline from the new york times, the vice president seeking nuance on the migration debate during a tour of the border. the do tales -- of the details available at ny.com. she confronted an issue that is not tied to her own political future after president biden put her in charge of addressing the root causes on immigration. but for all the questions you took from reporters and even a group of detained migrant

children, whom she met behind closed doors, the vice president had few answers. and one private meeting she heard from immigration advocates who said they didn't understand why the biden demonstration has yet to deliver on promises to roll back things like title 42. some press of the vice president to end the rule which allows the president to expel asylum-seekers for health reasons. yesterday the secretary of homeland security, who accompanied the vice president, telling reporters the centers for disease control and prevention would ultimately decide. however, the agency directed questions about the policy back to the white house. that this morning from the new york times. randolph, massachusetts, livingston is next on the independent line. caller: good morning. the story you are supposed to be telling is about the truth of immigration.

who were the first to came to this country? the people who outnumber the original people and that people of color are going to outnumber them. i think c-span should do a story about the history of this country from the beginning. host: thank you. we go to nashville, tennessee. richard on the independent line. caller: good morning. this is a farce. you cannot tell me -- i am 65 -- you cannot tell me after all these years the federal government just realizes there are people coming across the border illegally. that's not true. i have lived in the south, l.a., san diego, and i am telling you they come land, sea, and air. how come you have people from china or the middle east coming through the mexican border? the mexican people are good people. there is good and bad in all

people. i work with people every day. my neighborhood right now, on one corner is a vietnamese family owns a house. on the other corner is an 80-year-old white woman and next door to her is a 75-year-old black woman. next door to meet is a single woman who can work but won't work and her house looks like rap. next door to me is the mexican family, great family. we are diverse and inclusive. my company this week made me take the inclusion test. they are not only coming after your conscious mind they are coming after your subconscious mind. they want to control what you're thinking before you even think it. host: thanks. joe in kansas, we have no southern border. people are coming in from 100 different countries. glenn grossman, republican from wisconsin, joined us yesterday

on washington journal with these comments for the vice president landed in el paso, texas. [video clip] >> i think the biggest crisis in the country is at the southern border and the fact the vice president did not go down there for like, 12 weeks, indicates her heart is not in it. president biden has to make a lot of decisions but he made a big mistake in assigning the border to harris. not only did it show she did not care about the border or didn't care about the border patrol who put their lives on the line every day by not being down there, but i think it also shows you a little bit insubordinate. nobody can tell me the vice president expected kamala to stay away for 12 weeks while she was not down there. it is of great concern and to this day i wish he would appoint somebody else as his point person. host: that was from yesterday and terry is joining us from danville, virginia.

caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. i would absolutely say it is not a democratic or republican problem. the problem is that we, the only way we are going to stop this terrible thing down at the border, we need to close the border. permanently until we come up with a great plan and execute the great plan. i feel we should have continued and finished the wall. i'm black but i'm also part native. i think the hispanics who are here illegally, i think they should not be considered a citizen. they should not get citizenship unless they cannot ever hold office.

i truly believe that we are the people of the united states. if we don't have a border, we don't have a country. host: we believe that there. a few more calls and then we will turn our attention to afghanistan with u.s. troops pulling out. cc in atlanta, democrats line. good morning. caller: we are going to miss you. you are great. good luck in your future endeavors. host: thank you. caller: i am also black and i feel differently than the gentleman you spoke to. what i think is when we pull those troops out of afghanistan, put them in guatemala. these people are having problems with drugs, and prostitution, and if i was a mom living there, i would send my child to america too.

who doesn't want the best for their child? most people do. there was a woman from south carolina i agreed with. this is not a republican or democratic issue, this is a human issue. these people are really suffering. how can we as americans stand by and watch babies suffering this way? being forced into prostitution, being forced to sell drugs, who are we? how can you call yourself a christian and a believer of the gospel and agree to have these kids stay where they are? bring our troops home, take them to guatemala, get the situation straight down there, and then clean up the mess and fight the cartels. and maybe they will not have to try to come to america. thank you, steve. host: thank you for the call.

alan, you get the last word from fort pierce, florida. good morning. caller: good morning, steve. good luck on your new adventures. it has been great having you on c-span. i want to comment about many people's misperceptions. a lot people use the word "illegal immigrant." when people come through port of entry it is legal and a lot of americans don't understand that. the other thing i find interesting is the photojournalist scott nicole who documented the ladders left behind at the border wall. this was in texas monthly magazine and also in the guardian. it is a situation where the trump administration spent $27 million per mile to build the wall and people on the others out of the wall can spend $5 in hardware to make a ladder to

scale the wall and then they bring it over to get back down the other side and leave it. this photographer has many pictures of exactly what happens. it is equivalent to what we had in florida many years so the letters are the equivalent of the rafts. host: thank you for calling from florida. we appreciate that. more hours of the washington journal. we hope you stay with us. coming up in just a moment, we welcome back dan caldwell with concerned veterans for america to talk about the u.s. withdrawal of troops from afghanistan and other issues involving veterans. later, ted heston as we continue our conversation on it vice president harris and her visit to el paso yesterday. you are watching and listening to c-span's washington journal.

>> today, on the communicators, chief security officer of huawei technologies usa on possible new opportunities for huawei and cyber security six concerns -- security concerns in the u.s. >> what is possible to make for greater privacy. we need to think outside the box and not just go with the same all stuff that is not working. accountability and transparency are key. germany is doing the important things to make sure that the operators and equipment suppliers have good visibility. that is what is missing in the u.s.. senator king of maine was on a recent sunday show and saying -- congress has dropped the ball and has not exercised their

oversight. there needed to be requirements and objectives, finding. heads need to roll if we do not do what is necessary to make america safer. >> watch the communicators today at 6:30 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> c-span: landmark cases. export the stories and constitutional drama behind significant constitutional decisions. what gideon v wainwright. -- watch gideon v wainwright. the court ruled that under the sixth amendment, the accused must be provided with a lawyer if they cannot afford one. watch on c-span, online at c-span.org.

host: we want to welcome back dan caldwell. he is joining us from virginia, serving as a senior advisor for concerned veterans for america. he is also with stand together. guest: thanks for having me. host: let me begin with the u.s. troops pull out from afghanistan and the president meeting with afghanistan leaders yesterday. what are your biggest concerns? guest: that -- president biden made the right decision to end our military mission in afghanistan. we accomplished what we needed to long ago by punishing the taliban and killing osama bin laden. everything we have tried to do beyond that, trying to turn afghanistan into the illiberal democracy, has been unnecessary and resulted in unnecessary

losses of life and expenditure of resources that could have been used elsewhere. i am very supportive of what president biden has done. my main concern right now is withdrawal will be spoiled by other actors. the people will try to slow down the withdrawal, members of the afghan government or here at home. but i am focused on is ensuring that president biden completes withdrawal, which has tremendous support from the american people . a poll done by our organization and others has shown that over two thirds of the american people, including a majority of her pup gives, support getting out of afghanistan. host: when the president met with afghan leaders yesterday, he had these remarks. president biden: the partnership between afghanistan and the u.s. is not ending. it is going to be sustained. our troops may be leaving, but supports for afghanistan is not ending, in terms of support and

maintenance of helping maintain their military, as well as economic and political support. both have got very difficult jobs. every time i think i have a tough job, i think mr. president --, but seriously they are doing important work trying to bring about unity among afghan leaders across the board. afghans are going to have to decide their future, what they want. but it will not be for lack of us giving help. violence has to stop, but it will be very difficult. host: let me follow-up on that last point about violence continuing. refer to them as bad actors. who are these groups? these individuals? how high is your level of concern that is a pullout, these other forces will move ineffectively? guest: i would zero in on two

things. first what president biden said in his remarks, that the future of afghanistan is up to the afghans. they need to determine their own path without hundreds of thousands of american troops or foreign troops in their country. in regards to the violence, afghanistan has been in a state of civil war for over 40 years. afghanistan was violent before the americans came. it was violent when we are there , including we had over 100,000 troops. it is going to be violent once we leave. it is tragic, unfortunate, but the reality is that we as americans have limited ability to solve this problem. there are limits to our power. i think that president biden has recognized that. his remarks at the end with the most important. we will provide support, but now it is up to the afghans to solve these systemic problems. host: going back to some of

these root causes and the president saying we will continue to support afghanistan, supporting in what way? guest: the biggest way is through financial aid. paying the salaries of the afghan national security forces, ensuring that they can pay for their equipment, providing diplomatic support, those are the best ways that we can help afghanistan, but even that, there are limits to that. it should not be a continuous, blank check, because if you create the wrong incentive for the afghan government to keep doing things that could end the violence. the taliban is a terrible organization. they are not good actors, but the afghan government as well is corrupt. it has not helped the security situation in the country. it is important also to recognize that they have not won

the support of large portions of the afghan population, which is why the taliban has been very successful. it is appropriate to continue to support the afghans financially, to continue to support the military from afar, not having trading force in the country -- training force in the country. to do those things to ensure that they have a chance to continue pursuing peace talks and continue to hold parts of the country securely, but beyond that, we cannot fix afghan's problems. there systemic, have preceded us, and will continue after us. it is a good thing that we recognize that. host: dan caldwell with concerned veterans for america. he will be joining us for the next 35-40 minutes. if you are a veteran, (202) 748-8000.

if you are active duty military, (202) 748-8001. for all others, (202) 748-8002. will continue to take your text messages and suites at c-span wj -- tweets and c-span3 j. u.s. intelligence experts belief that government of the afghan president could survive as long as two years once he withdrawal is completed. that is roughly the same interval between the u.s. withdrawal of vietnam and the fall of saigon. the latest view of intelligence analysts and u.s. senior military officials, however, that the government in afghanistan and its capital could fall between six and 12 months after american forces depart. that is according to some officials. when you hear that, what is your reaction? guest: we have spent 20 years in afghanistan. we have invested over $1

trillion in the country, security forces, helping develop their economy, helping them try to develop a functioning government, a government that is not corrupt, which some personally so the case. six months, two years, 10 years is not going to find malay change situation. what is going to do is cost -- is going to fundamentally change situation. what is going to do is cost of slaves. -- that are not in our national interests. that is what we should look at as we proceed forward with afghanistan. what do we need to do to ensure that we are keeping our country safe? when you look at it from that prism, we have limited interests in afghanistan. in regards to the afghanistan government, if it does collapse, that does not necessarily mean that the taliban is going to consume the whole country.

there are different forces within afghanistan, nongovernmental actors that will likely prevent the taliban from taking over the whole country. you so that prior to 2001 with other ethnic groups that have various issues with the towel down. i do not believe that how then is going to be able to take over all of afghanistan if the government collapses. a lot of these intelligence estimates about how long as certain government can last oftentimes turn out not to be accurate. a lot of the intelligence we had about afghanistan restaurants we have made have turned out to be incorrect. -- or estimates we have made have turned out to be incorrect. you brought up the vietnam comparison, but i hear a lot of people bringing up about the fall of saigon and the optics of that. obviously, the optics are bad, but it really did not have a long-term impact on american security.

16 years later, we won the cold war. i think that it would be tragic if the government fell in afghanistan, but it would not ultimately impact our security in an overly negative way, which would require us to go back into afghanistan with a large military force. host: let us bring in our viewers. in florida, helen. caller: thank you for listening to me. i would like our country to be open to thoughts of repair and staff going over the same problems. open to repair. guest: i believe the caller was referring to moving forward from

the war in afghanistan. i think that what is important for us is to continue looking at our presence of pride. not just afghanistan, but throughout the greater middle east. i think president biden made a great case in his speech for wiry we are doing this. -- four why we are -- for why we are doing this. a lot of the reasons he laid out could apply to iraq and syria. i hope that after afghanistan, we continue to look at our foreign policy, look at where we could be less engaged and continue this momentum to end our endless wars. so we can focus on repressing priorities at home and abroad. host: the houses back in session next week. the session is in recess for two weeks. i mention that because when the senate returns in july, one of the issues we will take up is a war powers. headlight from new york times,

as a worse wind down, congress revisiting presidential powers. the issue au mf. authorization for use of military fourth -- force. a bipartisan level of support in the house. where's is going to go in the senate? guest: the house of representatives, on a large bipartisan vote, just past -- just repealed the 2002 authorization for use of military force. this was the legislation that was passed in 2002 that authorize the u.s. to invade iraq and overthrow saddam hussein. both were completed in 2003. in my view, they were unnecessary, but for the sake of this legislation, it was completed in two -- 2003. however, the slot has been kept on the books and used by both the obama and trump administrations to justify actions not related to the

overthrow of saddam hussein or the invasion of iraq. for too long, congress has kept us on the books. it has allowed the executive branch to ignore congress. -- ignore congress and its role in matters for and peace and execute foreign policy the oversight of congress. we think, along with a broad range of groups, including the heritage foundation, the american legion, the country's largest veteran organization, think that this should be repealed. we were happy to see this bill repealed on a bipartisan paces. rep senator of barbara lee was the main sponsor -- representative barbara lee was the main sponsor. we hope now with such a strong bipartisan vote that the senate will take up similar legislation or take up rep. dent: if lee -- representative lee's bill. we are hopeful that this

ultimately will be repealed and that it will be the first step for congress really reasserting itself in america's foreign policy. it has been absent for too long. congress has been too willing to punt on these issues. we think that it is time for that dynamic to end. host: what is the mission of concerned veterans for america? guest: concerned veterans for america is eight veterans grassroots action organization whose mission is to advocate for policies that preserve their freedom and prosperity that we fought for. we do this by organizing, educating, and activating veterans and military families and all patriotic families in support of our policies. our agenda is focused on three main things. advancing american foreign policy rooted in realism and restraint. fixing the department of veterans affairs, and reducing our debt. in our view, that is our

greatest long-term national security threat. host: that debt now in excess of $2020. what is your money come from? guest: we are funded by a large group of generous donors. we have many individual donors, but we are part of the stand together community, which is calmly known as the koch network. charles koch is a founder of the network. we are proud to partner with him and other generous donors from across the country. we are also proud to partner with a wide range of organizations. we work with people on the election to accomplish what we need to do -- unelected to compass what we need to do. we are very proud to be part of the stand together community. stand together is an organization whose goal is to break down barriers and institutions of government, business, communities. in education to ensure that every individual has the ability to thrive and realize their full potential.

we are very proud of people we work with. we work with people from across the spectrum. we are very blessed to have a large group of generous contributors. host: we appreciate you joining us. he is joining us from alexandria, virginia. he made mention of aumf. if you're interested, a much deeper dive on our podcast the weekly. two different perspectives, one from the cato institute, and one from georgetown university. disco different opinions on the debate here in washington. it comes back to the senate when lawmakers return in july. it is available wherever you get your podcasts. from texas, victoria. caller: good morning.

thank you, mr. caldwell. i have participated in the concerned veterans for america here in texas. i am so disappointed as a veteran to see that the struggles that they are still going through, especially when you mention that that government is funding afghan troops and paying their benefits we still have many veterans here in the u.s. i disassociated myself with the organization because i saw very little effort being made. it is just appalling. active duty right -- if i were active-duty right now, i would take off my uniform. i was disappointed to see our troops at the january troops -- terry sixth issues in washington. nancy pelosi viewed our sorcerers in garages. -- our soldiers in garages. we should focus on bringing our

troops out of afghanistan. we keep hearing the same thing from congress over and over again. they want to troops at the border. they want them in afghanistan. i believe it is time we stopped. i have been fighting the v.a. for 18 years. host: victoria, thank you. guest: thank you for supporting our organization, for partnering with us. our grassroots activists truly are the strength of our organization. there the people on the ground. we would not be successful without people like you. i hope that you could get involved with us again one day. but i understand your frustration. the department of veterans affairs is still not serving veterans as fast as it could. we have made a lot of progress in helping veterans get better health care and ensure that v.a. employees are held accountable

when they do the wrong thing, but there is still a lot of work to do. especially following the covid pandemic, where the v-8 made a lot of bad decisions, particularly in 2020 that has caused really bad outcomes for many veterans that rely on the v.a. for their health care. tickler, there were millions of canceled appointments last year that have not been rescheduled. that v.a. has gotten literally $ 40 billion in extra funding through the stimulus packages. those using the v.a. has actually gone down. they have plenty of resources, plenty of staff and still need to do a better job. in regards to the use of a national guards after that terrible incident of 1/6, some of my friends were those sleeping in the garages. they were deployed for over a month.

a lot of the things that we saw after 1/6 with the military presence here was disturbing in many ways. it was frustrating, but it was also an immense burden on tens of thousands of national guards who had to leave their jobs, their families to come out here for a month. some of that was probably necessary. there is a major security -- was a major security breach of the capital -- capitol. that building had to be secured. but a lot of these things we have a tendency to overreact. i hope that as we look back at 1/6, we learn the right lessons and do not overreact. we do, we often make it worse. going back to afghanistan and the larger global war on terror, that is the kind of thing you've seen over the last 20 of years. in many cases, we have gone beyond what we needed to do and

fundamentally made the problems we're trying to solve worse. that is what we need to be careful of as we get past 1/6 and doing things like deploying two divisions of national guards, i think we should take a hard look at that question and whether or not it was necessary. host: dave on twitter says could you ask the guest about -- trump seriously considered using our military during the george floyd protests. what are your thoughts? guest: i have seen those reports. i do not have any insight on how accurate they are. i do not think that it is appropriate to use active military soldiers or marines or airmen or sailors as law enforcement. i do not think that that is appropriate. a do not think that those appropriate -- i do not think that was appropriate last summer . we have law enforcement for

reason. the washington, d.c. region has over 50 civilian law enforcement agencies. at the federal district level. there were thousands of civilian losses and personnel within the district. yet almost every federal agency -- almost every federal agency has their own police force. yet, they were unable to effectively deal with these riots and other incidents of violence. why were these existing forces, which have grown immensely following 9/11, why were they unable to handle these incidents? we would've crossed a dangerous line if we brought in the 82nd airborne are the first marine division to engage in civilian law enforcement. our military exists to defend our borders, to defend our country. the founders and a lot of the

people that helped to stand up our military were at times wary of our large military ultimately being turned inward. it would've been incredibly dangerous to have a large military force around the country -- an active military force beyond the national guard supplementing law enforcement, engaging in law enforcement. host: jeffrey, new york. caller: sorry to see you go, steve. i have two comments of a personal story is a veteran. first of all, the republicans that are disputing absentee ballots. when i was active-duty, i voted absentee. i did not vote in san diego. i voted as an absentee resident of the state of new york. if you are disputing absentee ballots, you are dishonoring

active-duty military. my personal story is with the department of education and the department of veterans affairs. i attended a for-profit college called the art institute of pittsburgh. they went bankrupt, but they took as part of a fraud scheme might veterans benefits. $7500 of the post-vietnam veterans benefits. this was a non-accredited with occult trade school back then. now they call them for-profit colleges. no accreditation what so ever. i wasted two years of my life. i still -- oh -- owe $20,000. they're supposed to be some forgiveness. i'm sure there is many veterans

that attended there twentysomething art schools around the country and are all bankrupt. there is hundreds of billions of dollars in washington waiting to be given out as restitution to these victims of fraud, which i am one of them. i think the term of veterans affairs and any veteran from attending any for profit in college. these benefits should only be used for accredited universities and state colleges. caller: jeffrey, if you are owed reimbursement and money from the v.a., and have not gotten it i would encourage you to reach out to your member of congress. they can help individuals like you recover benefits that they have not received due to errors or for other reasons.

i used to work as a constituent caseworker for a member of congress. you can at least help get you more information. you can also contact your senator's office. regards to the larger issue of for-profit colleges utilizing the g.i. bill, i do not think it would be a good idea to for-profit institutions from using the g.i. bill. however, i do think that it is problematic that you have institutions building their entire business model around simply acquiring federal dollars and that they are geared towards that as opposed to giving students a good education and ultimately helping them succeed as members of society. there is a balance here. when you ensure that taxpayer dollars and the benefits of veterans have earned are not being wasted, but i think it would limit veteran educational choices by simply banning any

nonprofit private entity from receiving g.i. bill money. while there is a lot of great public universities, in some cases, they do not have the right structure, the rate schedule fit a certain veteran's needs. i believe in maximum flexibility in terms of using both your veterans health benefits and g.i. bill benefits for it i want to make sure veterans have options. come again, we cannot have institutions product people. if they are doing that, they should not be allowed to receive g.i. bill money. host: john, indiana. also a veteran. caller: i am a vietnam veteran. i had cataracts removed from my eyes and i don't need lasses and i also graduated with a degree

in accounting on the g.i. bill. all of my children in indiana got to go to college to a state university for free, the only state out of the 50 that offers that, which is why we moved here and that saved me 100s of thousands of dollars -- save me hundreds of thousands of dollars. guest: i am glad to hear that. i have been a longtime critic of the ba. but i want that to succeed when veterans are receiving good health care and the benefits they earned, that's a good thing. i am glad that you are having a good experience at the department of veterans affairs. host: bobby is next from stockbridge, georgia. another veteran. caller: good morning to you. the v.a. has been good to me all these years. i am an elderly veteran and

consequently the last visit i had, which was about a month ago, i had a new doctor and she didn't understand what was wrong with me and i tried to explain to her, but she was a foreigner and what was in her culture was different than mine. and consequently i left there with no solution to my problem. so i am saying we should be sure that the doctors we get are more educated and able to deal with the people they have to deal with. host: when and where did you serve? caller: i served stateside in texas and tennessee and also in

wyoming. host: in what brain -- branch? caller: i started out in the air force and ended in the army. host: dan caldwell, your thoughts? guest: i love coming on the show and taking these questions because you see such a diversity of experiences at the v.a., and that just shows that it is important to give veterans of flexibility and choice in their benefits. if you are not having a good experience at the v.a., even though you've had good ones in the past, having that flexibility to take your benefits elsewhere ultimately improves the v.a. by incentivizing them to get better and ensures the veterans can get the health care they need which is best for them and ultimately enables them to get it in a timely matter -- manner which is

most convenient for them. the solution is not a top-down approach that tries to force veterans into ba hospitals -- v.a. hospitals is to give them choice and flexibility to tailor their health care and benefits to what is best for them, and that is what will ultimately enable more veterans to succeed and to live fulfilling and complete lives. host: we have a tweet from rick saying, please ask his feelings on the attack i matt gaetz and the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and the defense secretary. this is a headline from the washington examiner getting a lot of attention trying to score political points, the white house is slamming the congressman on the issue of critical race theory and that clashed with a top general peer that made it into the washington

post op-ed, this editorial cartoon with general mil andley gaetz a fly and then being swatted with a flyswatter. your thoughts? guest: first off, i don't think pinnacle race theory should be the foundation for antidiscrimination training within the military. it is a collectivist ideology with roots in marxism, and i think that it does not assume that individuals have free will, i ultimately think it is a divisive ideology that works by turning people against each other and creating more conflict . i think antidiscrimination training in the military is necessary but should be focused on encouraging individual respect and respecting each other's differences.

i was glad here secretary austin say critical race theory is not the basis or will not be used as the basis for and discrimination training in the military -- for antidiscrimination training in the military. in regard to general milly, he did some things where he contradicted civilian leadership of the executive branch, in particular when he made what i would say is a passive-aggressive remark to the national security advisor is saying we will reduce forces in afghanistan. it shows he worked to undermine president trump's efforts to withdraw from afghanistan and i think his actions as the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff or inappropriate.

there are also issues where he was criticized for showing up in uniform prior to the incident at lafayette square. i am surprised there is this 180 and there are a lot of individuals who last year were criticizing general milley and now holding him on a pedestal. i think it is important to question and challenge our general officers more, not just on this issue but others as well. you should respect military service, but going back to the war powers issue, i think for too long congress has been too deferential to the military. i think if more -- i think more members of congress should step up and challenge the offices of the military and asked them why they are doing certain things and should not be scared away by

stars on someone's collar. it is healthy for our country and will ultimately help make the military better. in regards to this particular change, i do think what i said about critical race theory not being the foundation for antidiscrimination training in the military is important, but i do think at the same time it isn't a bad thing if you learn about it. just like when i was about to deploy from iraq, i tried to learn about forms of radicalism so i could understand what were driving people in these etiologies -- ideologies. it is important to understand why they are bad. i don't think anyone is honestly talking about it. i think people are setting up strawmen in this debate. i think it is important to understand why they are bad and ultimately could make the

problem of rachel discrimination and -- racial discrimination and tension in the military worse if we rely on critical race theory to set up antidiscrimination training. host: dan caldwell is a republican from arizona and was also part of operation iraqi freedom in 2005. he is joining us from alexandria, virginia. some tweets saying, i salute dan caldwell and enthusiastically support president biden's decision to end the 20 year u.s. military involvement in afghanistan. trump's departure was scheduled for may 31, better late than never. this from another viewers saying our draw will only embolden the taliban and they will see it as a victory and will grow in strength weekly across the region. diane is next from fayetteville, north carolina. good morning. caller: it is fayetteville new

york. host: i am sorry. caller: my father was a veteran of world war ii and he ended up being the chief master sergeant for the air national guard. my issue is that the president and kamala are not addressing the border and all of this money. i watched a program on your station that was addressing the veterans having their claims not taking care of, not having the proper medical. these are folks that fought for all of us. these are veterans. we deserve and they deserve for them to be taking care of and treated as such, and they are our heroes, and we are pouring

money into the border and there are veterans that are literally dying and they are saying the border is not a problem, we have to let people in. i lost a newborn and if i had a child and we were in dire straits, i would keep that child with me. i would not let some coyote or something take that child and possibly rape that child, male or female, sell it into slavery or whatever. there is no excuse you keep your child with you and go through the perils together. what comes or goes, you live or die with that child. thank you very much. host: i am so sad for your loss. guest: i am sad for your loss. what is happening at the border is a tragedy and should be

addressed. one thing i would like to go back to, you mentioned the tweet earlier about a taliban victory. i think it is important to remember that we accomplished what we needed to in afghanistan. we won the war we needed to fight and lost the war we didn't. if the taliban win, and i don't think they are going to win like people say in terms of taking over the country, but if they are able to topple the afghan government, i don't think that's necessarily a failure on us come only in the sense that again we fought a war in terms of trying to build this nation in afghanistan that was more like ours, a liberal democracy, and that wasn't what we needed to do. and that's important to remember . i also think that doesn't

necessarily mean that the sacrifice of the american soldiers and marines who served in afghanistan was in vain, but in a lot of ways i think that it was not necessary to ultimately achieve what we needed to in afghanistan. that is the key lesson we should take away from this conflict is we have had a limited set of goals and we accomplished those and after we did we should have gotten out long ago. host: we will go to john in vero beach, florida. caller: i have been with you pretty much up until you came to crt. i want to make sure i completely understand you. my father was a veteran who came home blinded. 19 months at mass general and a

time at walter reed. that was all the v.a. care. he was totally disabled but he was able to work. at the end of his life, the last eight years of his life, he spent at the highest possible supplemental living facility that massachusetts had to offer, and tricare picked up. my siblings would not have been able to afford it. i would never have been able to get through law school without the g.i. bill. my freshman year, the first check didn't come through until i was halfway through but after that, it came every single month. you are talking about privatizing the v.a. or knocking it down where every teaching

hospital is knocked down to a hospital that takes medicare. i think at that point we part company. you are completely wrong on crt. it does belong in the work college and belongs in the law schools. nobody is telling kids that because they are white they've got to be hated. host: we will get a response from dan caldwell. guest: with regard to the v.a., we have made clear we don't support dismantling or privatizing the v.a.. we support choice. choice does not mean privatization and we want the v.a. to be work -- to work. i don't think critical race theory should be the foundation for creating curriculum for antidiscrimination training

within the military. i have no problem if individuals learn about it and study it, just like i think individuals should learn about communism, his radical islam -- radical islam is him, to learn why they are not good for society as a whole. host: i want to get your reaction to one other headline. this is from the washington post is the v.a. planning to offer gender confirmation surgery to transgender veterans paired this reverses a policy put in place back in 2013. -- veterans? this reverses a policy put back in 2013. guest: our view is the v.a. should do what it needs to to provide the best health care for veterans and our focus is to ensure veterans have choice and are getting benefits in a timely matter -- manner and employees doing the wrong thing are held accountable. host: dan caldwell, thanks for

being with us. when we come back, we will turn our attention to the border and the visit by vice president harris. we are joined by ted hesson , who covers it for reuters. michele steinberg and then -- and then michele steinberg will talk about the wildfires in the west. washington journal continues. we hope you stay with us. we are back in a moment. ♪ >> later today, former donald trump holds a rally in wellington, ohio to support max miller, a republican running against anthony gonzalez in the 16th congressional district. that is live on c-span, online

at c-span.org or you can listen on the free c-span radio app. >> in his latest book, drunk, the author looks at the role drinking has played throughout history. >> alcohol makes it harder to live. it is and also, more surprising, makes us better at detecting lies. so humans when not focusing consciously on lies, we don't do a good job at it. if we just relax and look at the queues, we do a better job -- c ues, we do a better job. cultures use intoxicants at treaty meetings or business meetings, anything where potentially hostile people need to figure out how to

communicate. >> 8:00 eastburn on c-span, and you can also listen as a podcast , wherever you get your podcast. ♪ ♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: good saturday morning pit

thank you for joining us. ted hesson from reuters. we want to ask you the policies with regard to the border. what are you hearing and where is the debate right now? guest: for president biden, this is a challenge. he has pledged to install a more humane immigration system. he has reversed many of the policies of his predecessor, former president donald trump. at the same time, they have seen the number of arrests along the border rise. it has raised a challenge and he has gotten criticism from republicans saying he should not have rolled back trump policies and should be putting in place more welcome policies. at the same time, pressure from democrats, saying he should actually be rolling back more trump policies, and activists saying he should be ensuring

that children and families coming into the country are treated humanely and that people who want to seek asylum have the chance to seek asylum at the border. there are tensions around how he should handle the border situation. host: there are references to vital -- to title 42, which is what? guest: it was put in place in march 2020 under the trump administration and put in place by the u.s. centers for disease control and prevention. the idea behind the policy was that it was needed to protect both migrants coming into the country and border agents who would be handling them from covid-19. there has been a lot of controversy around it, definitely questions of whether it was meant as a health measure or immigration enforcement measure. there has been a lot of pressure on president biden to reverse it. the complaint was what advocates would say is it is cutting off

access to asylum at the border, because people who approach are able to be rapidly expelled back to mexico or rapidly sent to home countries without the chance to come into the u.s. and without the chance to seek asylum. there is pressure on president biden, even during his administration, there have been more than 300,000 expulsions under this policy of migrants at the border. it has happened quite a bit. there is pressure for him to end it but trepidation amongst people close to the administration and in the administration about whether that might increase arrivals to the border. host: we continue to hear from the vice president and others is that the goal is to deal with root causes of the migration problem. here is president biden back in march announcing that his vice president will take the lead in this effort. [video clip]

pres. biden: it is our responsibility to deal with it and stop what is happening. this increase has been consequential, but the vice president has agreed among multiple other things, agreed to lead the diplomatic effort and work with those nations and enhance migration enforcement at their borders. we are already talking with mexico about that. we are going to be dealing with a full team to deal with the problem here at home, but also to deal with it now in terms of the countries. i can think of nobody who is better qualified to do this then the woman who ran the second largest attorney general's

office in the state of california, and has done a great deal on human right and fighting organized crime in the process. she is leaving the effort. the thing to do is to put someone when he or she speaks, she speaks for me and doesn't have to check with me. she knows what she is doing. host: here are official numbers looking at the month of may in terms of the situation along the border, 172,000 total encounters compared to about 25,000 that took place last year. title 42 expulsions, 210 thousands and title eight apprehensions over 61,000.

from vice president harris who was in guatemala and mexico before traveling to el paso, texas had this to say. [video clip] vice president harris: i want to be clear those in the region who are thinking about making the dangerous trek to the u.s.-mexico border, do not come, do not come. the united states will continue to enforce our laws and secure our border. there are legal methods which migrations can and should occur. but we will discourage illegal migration. i believe if you come to our border you will be turned back. so let's discourage our friends, neighbors, family members from embarking on what is otherwise an extremely dangerous journey,

where in large part the only people who benefit our coyotes. host: that is from vice president harris. she was in el paso yesterday. that was president biden back in march. put all of this in context. guest: president biden facing political pressures and a rising number of apprehensions at the border. he tasked his vice president to tackle the issue. it is not something that can be solved overnight, and most people recognize that on both sides of the issue. the way she has approached it has been diplomatically, by traveling to mexico and guatemala. in recent weeks there has been increasing pressure from republicans saying she needs to go down to the border in person. it had almost grown outsized in proportion. we saw yesterday she did take

her first trip as vice president to el paso, texas. even then, she still faced criticism from republicans because she didn't the what -- to what they call the epicenter. she is taking steps to address this, but many of these things are longer-term. we talked about addressing root causes, you are talking about finding ways to deal with poverty and parts of central america, doing with crime, and dealing with climate change in some cases. these are not things that are done in a month, they are things done over a decade sometimes. host: our phone lines are open. if you live along a order, along the u.s.-mexico border, (202) 748-8003. in terms of title 42, are there

any chance to put -- to change that? guest: there have been talks about winding down around that. the biden administration has taken some steps to face it out since biden has become president. one of the first things the biden administration was to exempt unaccompanied children from the policy. so previously when unaccompanied children would approach the border, they would be expelled back to mexico under this policy period is one thing that immediately the biden administration did change. also since taking office, president biden's administration as exempted families. we have seen month after month a lower percentage of families have been expelled under title 42. looking at may in particular,

only 42% were expelled but the rest were allowed in. host: we will go to matt who is joining us from bath, new york. caller: good morning. i want to rehash something that seems strange to me that when trump was president, these kids were put in cages that actually were built by biden and obama but know that biden is president, they are put in the same cages but they are now called human resource facilities. it is amazing how the media mob and left have portrayed this whole thing. what also is funny that she went to the border, but it was el paso, 800 miles from where the real stuff is happening. you showed a clip of her saying don't come here, don't come here, but i would like you to show this clip with her at the

airport with the congresswoman, now saying that el paso is the new ellis island of 2021. host: thanks for the call. guest: since biden took office, i mentioned that the arrest at the border has risen -- the arrests at the border has risen. children specifically were getting backed up in border stations and ways that immigrant advocate said were inhumane and ways republicans say shouldn't have been happening. you had hundreds or thousands of kids stuck in the crowded border stations not meant to hold kids for long periods of time. that is one thing that got the biden administration into action. they have taken steps to more quickly move those kids out of crowded border stations and into emergency shelters. they built thousands of beds in emergency shelters around the country.

the conditions in the shelters are not necessarily ideal either. a series of court documents and testimonials from the children held in these places earlier this week found that there were complaints of spoiled food, depression, potentially children being put on suicide watch in some of these facilities. it is a difficult and challenging issue. host: i want to share with you, this is a tweet from congressman escobar, a democrat. she said, looking forward to welcoming vice president harris to el paso, referring to it as america's new ellis island. so to that, and from the viewer? guest: i think the congresswoman has review of what her city is and is entitled to say that. others may object. certainly one argument you hear

most people who take a hard line on immigration is that you need to come to this country legally. one important thing to remember is that it is legal to seek asylum at the u.s.-mexico border. people may be entering illegally, but seeking asylum you can make that claim legally. claiming asylum at the border in itself is legal. host: let's go to kyle joining us on the democrats line, clearwater, florida. caller: i had a question for the guest on the breadth of the problem. historically and even at the end of the trump administration, it seems as we are in this hyper partisan state, it as if the biden administration had broken the immigration system or previously the trump administration had solved the problem.

it seems like at the end of the trump administration, immigration was already becoming a big problem. i just wanted your input on that. guest: part of why the rising levels of migrants at the border stands out so much is that we just experienced a year of covid lockdowns, not just in the u.s., but in countries throughout the region, countries in central america locking borders. people were afraid to travel and didn't want to travel. use all levels of entries and arrests at the border plummet in 2020. it does stand out that they have gone up again. if you look back at 2019, we had a surge of migration. there was also a surge in 2014, and you see them periodically over time. what is happening now is not new. it is a part of a long-standing

and frequent trend. the levels are higher than they have been in 20 years. just recently we had a million arrests at the border. at that pace, we are on pace for the highest annual levels since the year 2000. host: ted hesson has written for political and now covers immigration issues from reuters. this from the customs and border protection office from the past fiscal year, the number of migrants coming into the u.s., and use can see mexico is leading the list at close to 400,000 389 thousand from mexico, followed by honduras, while amada -- guatemala, and el salvador. our next caller.

caller: i would like him to break down what it is costing the u.s. taxpayer to take care of these people here why are they not sending the children back. it is like kidnapping. why can they not send them back to the parents. i understand they are putting them in homes and it is costing -- they are paying people $700 a week to take care of these kids. that is ridiculous. they are putting them up in hotels care they don't even put our veterans up. there was a case where a veteran was sleeping on the ground by a shelter where they had those people, and they complained about him being there and they made him move. host: we will get a response. ted hesson? guest: we know it is billions of

dollars spent on border security generally and the health and welfare of children. one thing to keep in mind when these unaccompanied children are arriving at the borders, there are laws that govern and rules that govern how they should be treated. there are anti-human laws put in place to ensure that children were trafficked here and will be released to traffickers when they come into the u.s. in many cases it is not so much a matter of what an administration would like to do with children coming in, they are governed by laws telling them what they should do. host: next is lorne joining us from minnesota, republican line. caller: good morning. you mentioned coming here because of climate change. the biden administration is constantly talking about climate change here and that is a poor excuse. host: ted hesson?

guest: one thing brought up by the biden administration is climate changes. typically when you talk about the root migration problems, they talk about poverty, gang violence, corruption as well. climate change is relatively new in this conversation. part of the reason for that, they were two devastating hurricanes that swept through honduras and guatemala late last year and called attention to the effects of climate in this region. there have also been food insecurity issues and guatemala and issues with crops that have driven more people into economic crises and potentially encouraging them to come to the u.s. i think the biden administration has a broader climate initiative and sees this to the lens of that as well. there are issues that have come

up in recent months and years that called attention to it. host: a man who joins us every week says, to set a straight, it is not america's concern, #root causes, illegal aliens. the president's job is to secure the border and deport all illegals. vice president kamala harris had these remarks. [video clip] vice president harris: we had this conversation about what is happening at the border. let's not lose sight that we are talking about human beings and we are talking about stories that as many folks shared involve horrendous tales of abuse and fear and harm, not only from folks coming here in their home country experiencing that, but along the path of

their migration. so let's recognize with a sense of humanity that these issues must be addressed in a way that is informed rightfax -- informed by facts and reality and be dedicated to addressing problems to fixing them in the most constructive and productive ways. the president and i are committed to ensuring that our immigration system is orderly and humane and i do believe we are making progress in that regard. host: that is how the administration is framing the debate. of course it is different when you are from congressional republicans. where does this lead? guest: that clip points out the difference in message and viewpoint between the biden administration and congressional republicans and former president trump. biden has pledged a more humane

immigration and vice president harris stressing people coming to the country are human beings and in many situations are fleeing something in their home country. one major difference is many congressional republicans with say these asylum cases don't have merit and are economic -- coming and using asylum to come in and make a false claim and would point out that many people who make an asylum claim at the border don't ultimately get or are granted asylum. there is a divergence of views and messages between the biden administration and republican. host: ann is next on the republican line. caller: the republican or -- the reporters and congressman have talked to them and they all say they are coming to a better

life. that is not an excuse. the only legal right for asylum is persecution. we have children going back to school this fall who will have, and they are going to be in the school with our kids. they don't speak the language. this is going to put our children further behind in education. watching these people coming across the border, none of them are starving. they want to participate in american life and the democrats seem to hate america and you have to wonder why do these people want to come here? host: ted hesson? guest: one thing the biden administration has talked about is the long time it takes to process these cases. any times people come to the border in enter the silent --

the asylum and it takes years to solve their cases. the biden administration does not think this is good either and there seems to be bipartisan agreement on that. they have taken steps to process cases of families arriving at the border more quickly, within a one year time period, more or less, to speed things up. they have talked about taking other steps that could potentially speed it up. you have people arriving and some ultimately have valid claims and some don't. if they are not getting their cases solved or adjudicated within a proper time period, that can take years, it is causing stress in people are thinking it is a way to get into the system. we will see what happens with that and whether the biden administration speeds up the

cases, but that is one area they are looking at. host: one headline from reuters.com is u.s. has reunited only seven immigrant children with parents. can you briefly elaborate? guest: that is correct. a few dozen more have been real unified. they have this effort. first of all, if you recall in 2018, the trump administration put into place what they called a zero-tolerance policy at the border. what that meant was anyone crossing the border would be charged with a crime, even if they weren't families, and in the case of families, it meant that parents could be sent to jail or before a judge and the children will be sent to the shelter system, essentially and rendered with the call unaccompanied. under that policy, thousands of children were separated from their parents and they later found out this was happening

before and after, to some degree. the biden administration and president biden strongly opposes that. he said one of the first executive orders was to take steps to reunify these children their parents to those who are still not connected. as you can see, that effort in five months has started off a bit slow we have talked about several dozen children reunited. in ministration officials say the reason for that is it is taking time to get the systems in place and that the information and data they had was not in an orderly fashion they could work with. there are other issues that have come up. they had issues with other countries, central american countries, issuing travel documents for people coming to the u.s. they are also allowing parents reuniting with parents to potentially bring other family members with them. that has taken more time to vet

those people and protected immigration process. host: ron in pennsylvania, democrats line. good morning. caller: the greatest influx of illegals with the puritans and the pilgrims and also the african slaves. i didn't hear the outrage when they came over because they were probably doing work that no one else wanted to do. some of the comments about illegals, they will eventually become american citizens, i hope, but there is a lot of disinformation going around about illegal people. look at the history, those people comeing in these -- those people who came over in the 1600s were not --. host: let's go to -- on our

independent line. caller: nobody is really mentioning that it is our foreign policy. we can just look at quite a mala, the wars -- at guatemala, the wars. there are governments who do not want to deal with it. we come in and stabilize the government because they would rather have -- provide guns and everything like that so we can plunder their natural resources. i did read a touch of that in a reuters article today, so i

wasn't sure if the judgment had more to elaborate. host: thanks so much for the call. guest: there certainly is the criticism, and you have heard it from some democratic lawmakers, that the u.s. bears responsibility for what is happening in central america right now. when you look at the biden administration's plan to tackle these issues, that is not necessarily a focus of it. corruption is a major focus and looking at these countries and corruption within own -- their own governments and the realization is that the u.s. can have a plan where they spend hundreds of millions of dollars in central america, but if the government are corrupt, that money won't be effective in the projects won't be as effective as you might have hoped. i wouldn't say it necessarily that the biden administration is focused on the historical role that the u.s. has played in the region as much as potentially

making changes in government or pressuring governments there to tackle corruption and to route it out within their own system -- two root it out in their own systems. host: to our next caller. caller: we seem to forget 9/11, pearl harbor. these people coming in, we don't know who they are. they could be terrorists, gang members. i came to this country in 1946. i had to wait for years, we had to be approved -- i had to wait four years, we had to be approved and my father had have a job waiting and sponsors. we should be protecting our borders and not letting people flow in who we don't know. children and people are being displaced. this one guy said that back in 1820 or what ever it was, they let people come in.

it a different ballgame right now. host: thanks for the call. we will get a response. guest: there are studies that have looked at crime rates between u.s. citizens, nativeborn citizens, immigrants and immigrants without legal status, and what i've seen that they have found is that immigrants do not commit crimes at a higher rate than nativeborn citizens and particularly immigrants without legal status commit crimes as even lower rates than people who are u.s. citizens. so i don't note necessarily that there is -- i can see that i have said -- seen no trend in criminology. there will be anecdotal cases and you hear about them all the time, whether citizens are not citizens will commit crimes. it does happen. i can't say that there is any kind of link in that regard. in regards to terrorism and the threat of terror, i think what you see across administrations

is a serious view of that. i think there certainly is a desire to know who is coming into the country and to ensure that bad actors aren't coming into the country. i think that runs across administrations. host: let me conclude with where be -- where we began. we heard from vice president harris and former president trump at a rally in ohio will certainly talk about the issue of immigration, but can the country get beyond the republican and democratic talking points and get to the root causes we have been talking about? guest: it was very optimistic from vice president harris that they could put politics aside. i don't think that's necessarily possible. one reason is that publicans have made this a major issue within the biden presidency, if not their top issue -- is that republicans have made this a major issue within the biden

presidency. it seems that the republican can go in toward 2022 elections seemed to make immigration a major focus. on the democratic side of it is less than an issue. seat when you are asking democratic voters -- you see it when asking democratic voters, and immigration is not necessarily at the top of that list and you see that with what president biden has laid out for his priorities. it is optimistic to say you could put politics aside and tackle the issue. it is always politicized to some degree and it seems now even more than years in past. host: ted hesson who covers immigration for reuters. hot temperatures continue out

west. these are some scenes. our guest joining us in just a moment is michele steinberg out n how to prevent these. it is a morning, june 26. we are back in a moment. ♪ >> book tv on c-span two has top, nonfiction books and authors every weekend. tonight at 10:00 p.m. eastern on afterwards, an author looks at the u.s. response to the coronavirus pandemic. he is interviewed by foreigner -- by a former senate leader. a critical look at the 1619 project which examines the foundations of america's beginning with matthew spalding, executive director of president trump's 1776 commission and peter would, the author of 1620,

a critical response to the 1619 project. sunday at 11:00 p.m. eastern, in the man i knew, the amazing story of george h w bush's presidency. they recall is 25 years after leaving the oval office. watch tv, this weekend on c-span two. ♪ ♪ >> american history tv on c-span-3, exploring the people and events that tell the american story, every weekend. today at 7 p.m. eastern, an author on his book, trailblazer of the american west. tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern, brown university professor megan nelson talks about guerrilla warfare on the federal and union sties.

-- union sides. sunday at 7:00 p.m. eastern, a journalist and law professor compares free speech in the united states and see whether the france model would work in the u.s. sunday at 8:00 p.m. on the presidency, a discussion about nancy reagan's legacy with a washington post columnist and author of the triumph of nancy reagan and a white house historical president exploring the american story watch american history tv this weekend on c-span-3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we want to welcome michele steinberg , who serves with the national fire protection association paired thank you for being with us. guest: it is great to be with you. host: this is a headline from

the hill newspaper, heatwave sparking historically unseasonable wildfires out west. as we see some of the scenes, my first question is whether these -- what are the potential threat to can forecast? guest: we are in national repaired nest level four. the fire center -- we are in the national level for. ur. the top level is i've. that tells -- is five. that tells you that we have a serious situation unfolding. we have almost stopped talking about a wildfire season anymore because 20 years ago when i started in this role, we had a little bit more predictability about more or less what time of

year and in what states you would see wildfire activity and these days it seems that's irrelevant. we have heat waves coming very early in the season for a lot of the western states, which exacerbates the condition for wildfires. we are in for a very dangerous season that people should be aware of and know what to do to both prevent starting wildfires and the prepared should wildfire impact their region. host: we continue to hear about controlled burns. what are they, how do they work, and how do you make sure they don't spread to something far more dangerous? guest: a controlled burn is also used with terms we put out to talk about fire that is intentionally used to try to restore the health of a forest to try to reduce the fuels that should a wildfire start when you are not planning on it could exacerbate the fire. if you think about a prescribed

fire, they look at the scenario of the land they are working on, whether it is a forest or whatever ecosystem, grassland, and that is carefully planned. the states where you are seeing a lot of activity not be the time to attempt controlled burns or prescribed fire. these are techniques used to deal with the buildup of vegetation otherwise known as fuel for the fire. controlled burns, very carefully planned. they are not something you just go out and do one day. it is a planned event and something that firefighters and burn managers have to take into account, when is the best time, not only for the specific ecosystem they are working in but from the safety point of view. host: another part of the debate

is homes built in areas prone to wildfires. in the last three years, more than 40,000 structures have burned and more than 100 people have died in fires in the u.s.. today there are 45 million homes in the wildland urban interface, structure loss due to wildfire has increased more than 163% over the past decade. guest: at the national fire protection association where i work, and i am also on the board of the international association of wildland fire, we are looking at this problem of the structures built in areas that are at risk to fire. so many of those 45 million structures estimated at risk were built before anybody was really thinking about this risk or without paying attention to

the factors at risk. it is a bit like floods or hurricanes. wildfires are part of the natural landscape and environment, yet we have built into these areas, a lot like people tend to build in floodplains or high wind zones, without doing the design and and considerations around any kind of strengthening of structures to make them more fire resistance and indeed to look at the community layout of how we can make them more fire resistant and easier for firefighters and fire departments to help come in and suppress the fire safely and effectively. it is a really big issue. when we talk about the conditions of setting ourselves up for wildfire disasters, one of the conditions is the way we have developed over a period of decades into areas that experience wildfire on a regular basis. host: we are dividing phone lines regionally. out west in the mountain or

pacific time zones and in an area prone to record temperatures and potential of wildfire dangers, (202) 748-8001 , is the number to call p for eastern time zones, (202) 748-8000. those listening on c-span radio, we are talking to michele steinberg , is there any way to prevent wildfires? guest: it is not impossible. there will be natural wildfires from lightning but as a firefighter of my acquaintance said there are three causes of fires excluding lightning, men, women, and children. the sardonic view that people

are often responsible for fires accidentally and the way we have structured our environments. the way you are hearing about these conditions termed as a red flag warning, it is very hot and dry, the wind is kicking up. you don't want to do anything that would cause a wildfire, and that can be as simple as mowing your grasp on a hot, dry day. a spark from any kind of machinery could cause a wildfire. using outdoor fire, campfires, barbecues, things like that, you have to be super careful in the things we are seeing. just because you did it last summer and it was safe, it might not be safe now, so it is important to look at those warnings about the conditions. host: this is headline -- two members of the u.s. senate, mitt romney and mark callie -- mark

kelly introducing legislation to improve wildfire policy. what can congress do? guest: nsta launched its collaboration where we are talking about the different elements that congress and local and state officials can take a look at, for better policy, planning development, dealing with the hazardous fuels on our public lands, helping firefighters be safe and effective, and keeping our public safe, informed, and taking action to save themselves and their property. the biggest things are looking at, how do we look at those 45 million homes, presumably which are not up to any kind of wildfire design standard or ignition resistant standard, how do we get folks to retrofit? meaning home improvement making sure the exterior of your structure is sound and protected, and encouraging what

a lot of people call defensible space working immediately around your home to eliminate sources for fuel that could bring the fire to your home. those are some big, thorny problems policymakers can look at, but any new construction, doing it more sensibly. as i said, doing it with fire in mind. we can't ignore these environmental factors and nature, basically, will continue. you will have fires in fire ecosystems. we will continue to have fires, so we need to adopt to that in terms of how we are building and designing. the big trigger -- and i had worked for fema in the past on hazard mitigation -- we continue to build as if there is no hazard, but when the disaster occurs, when nature doesn't -- and we have all of this damage and loss, we are expecting federal money to rebuild us.

needs to be a quid pro quo, a local and state folks taking responsibility for how we are developing in the first place and doing that as safely as we can. host: let me follow up on one point. you provided us with some incredible video of the depth and how quickly these wildfires spread. my question is, those on the front lines, the men and women putting out these fires, in terms of their own personal safety, and the stamina required to deal with what are often 12, 14, 16 hour days and a quick turnaround, what is it like? guest: members of my team at fpa , i work with a lot of them at my organization as a volunteer on the board. it is a very tough job. a lot of them say this is a young person's job, not well-paid, but people love to do this.

these are often people involved with the natural dust natural environment in some way, working with forestry or other realms. fire fighting in any round is a dangerous job by nature. these teams of folks have a fighting chance to do the good things and do the work that can help protect communities and restore our natural environments to help. this has been a big deal that was recognized by congress way back in 2003 with the healthy forests restoration act, that we have many lands where fire has been suppressed for so long that these are out of whack. the forests and range lands that need fire to survive, when you end up having a fire, there is so much fuel in these areas that the fires we have today will be much more damaging both to people and to the natural environment than they would have been 20, 30, 40 years ago.

host: nfpa.org is the website. martin joining us from las cruces, new mexico. caller: thank you, c-span. i would like to share a couple of experiences i've had over the years. i was a participant in a long-term middle rio grande water assembly that developed a fifty-year water plan for the region. one thing we found is there was a tree ring study that indicated that the years of the 1990's and the 2000 were considerably wetter than historical records, and that we tried to anticipate the increased drought and lack of rain as a part of that model. that was not inclusive of a

quantitative inclusion of climate change, but it did indicate weather patterns that would be changing. also, ppic in california has extensively studied the watershed management policies in california, and has shown them to be negligent and a primary cause for these wildfires. i'd like the speaker to address these particular issues and i appreciate her participation in c-span today. host: michele steinberg. guest: that information is really helpful. long-range watershed studies are the kinds of planning that at the local state and perhaps interstate or regional level, that are so critical, because as you may note, fire and water,

neither of those obey boundaries that we set politically. the land is going to be affected regardless of where we draw our jurisdictional lines. it is very important to have an understanding of that science. it is laudable that the group that you mentioned looked into that understanding of the period that we are in right now perhaps is not reflective of the past and not necessarily reflective of the future. it is just a snapshot. this is part of the issue of why we have had so much building without recognition of the hazards, is people think in the moment they are developing a community or buying into a community, this is how it will always look and will always have water supply and these kinds of trees, and things like field kill pests that are driven by drought and environmental stresses, are killing some of our forests.

that broadview is very helpful to understand what do our actions have to look like in the future? and the watershed issue, it is a pivot for government agencies to look beyond immediate term and beyond their boundaries to have broader conversations around how this is affecting a watershed, or even what we might call a fire shed. the way these natural environmental phenomena work, really don't care about political boundaries. host: a sense of just how widespread these temperatures are out west, seattle, washington, not known for triple digit temperatures. the headline -- steamy nights, triple digit temperatures, and a look at the weekend forecast includes more of the same. david in park ridge, illinois, thank you for waiting. caller: hello, thank you.

my son is a firefighter, a hotshot, and this is his fifth year. it is a really tough job. he works for the fire service and he is drug tested. and he also works with contractors and some of their employees are not drug tested. i don't know if that's a big deal or not, but my question is, president biden signed an executive order, i believe, that government workers or contractors would be paid $15 an hour minimum. now, when he is fighting a fire, he is making the money that a structural firefighter would fight for a municipality, but when he is not fighting a fire, which is also a lot of work

preparing equipment, getting ready for the next fire, he was paid minimum wage in new mexico for almost four years. so i want to know if you know anything about this $15 minimum wage when he is not fighting a fire. host: thank you, david. guest: thank you for the question. i can't speak to the agency's policies on that. just my lack of experience and i do not want to misspeak. my agency counterparts at the u.s. forest service, department of the interior, forestry agencies that do the firefighting, it is complex, and there has been a lot of discussion and agonizing over the -- what we do with people not in the season, if you will, or not actively fighting wildfire. these are still folks we want to come back. this is a hard job but we need

people willing to do those jobs that looking at that equity of pay, i think, is important. i don't see that it is solved, but certainly something those agencies are very aware of and very concerned about. i think one of the big things from our point of view at the national fire protection association is there is so much that needs to be done, not during the fires, during those times when you are preparing, not only through the fire service but the public in general and our land, the f we have skilled people that know fire, they know how to prepare for fire and what could it look like if we trained those folks to work with local governments and with the public, homeowners, to help them get prepared. when people are starting to look for, i want to move -- make my house more fire resistant, who

can help me? we have a skilled workforce in that area. that would be my wish that we take a good, in-depth look at that. i wish i could speak more to the inequity you mentioned or the pending issue you mentioned around the pay rate, but i honestly don't have enough information. host: tina in alabama. caller: good morning, yell. one of my cousins volunteered as a firefighter in montana and they trained him. they did that he did that for several years. a lot of volunteer forces out there. a bookunfred dinosaurs in the bible," having to do with the catastrophic flood of noah which helps us understand a lot of the natural flora and fauna, what is out there, and what has happened

in the past so we have a better understanding of what we are living in now. just wanted to recommend that to you. host: thank you. guest: i appreciate that recommendation. it is good to look at the past to help us understand what we are living in. host: some of the pictures from "usa today," and the headlines, whether these triple digit temperatures are the new normal. it is available online, usa today.com. james joining us from arizona, good morning. caller: good morning. one of the big problems we have right now is the foresters will not clear the woods. host: say that again, james? so we can get the comment correct. caller: they will not take care of the woods. 30 years ago, they use to slash and burn and take care of the woods and nobody will do it

anymore. i've been in three fires, and the forest service won't let anyone cut any trees down, won't let them walk, and you wonder why we have a problem with wildfires? in california, they are catching fire from power lines. the government has no idea what it's doing and neither does the forest service. host: michele steinberg, what are the root causes to where we are at today? guest: we mentioned the healthy forests restoration act of 2003. one of the planks of our policy initiatives for wildfire is to urge congress and agencies to continue to act on that. there is work going on in these areas, but to pick up the pace wherever possible to look at whatever obstacles are keeping them from getting at that hazardous vegetation and doing more, and that includes on state

lands and private lands, to address that problem. it is not the only piece of the puzzle. as i mentioned, the huge amount of development that has occurred since even the 1960's, 1970's, where this fire is part of the landscape naturally, has not taken into account that fire is there naturally. we really do need to address all of the fuel essentially presented by the structures that are there, through incentives, through support getting that skilled workforce out, advising people, making it more feasible, whether it be tax credits or insurance incentives for people to upgrade their homes to live more safely. certainly, i think the fact that we respect that people in this country want to live in the places where they want to live and build how they want to build, but i think americans take safety for granted. we are very fortunate in this

country to have strong building codes and infrastructure, more so than other countries in the world, not perfect for sure. that we take a hard look at our infrastructure and understand what we are asking particularly the fire service to do. we have grown up, if you will, over the last 40, 50 years, to think when wildfires come, firefighters will put it out. that is not possible with the size of the fires today and the impact on the environment that has popped up in these places. that paradigm doesn't work anymore, so we really need to not only help our firefighters be safe and effective, but we've got to address those root causes of a changing set of conditions that are making fires bigger and the season lasting -- no more season, it is all year-round. and understanding, what do we have to change about how we plan, build, educate people, and

behave, in terms of fire safety? host: a quick sidebar, i am curious, they can determine whether the fire was caused by lightning or camp fire. how do they determine that? guest: great question. i know the ability of tax arson is pretty sophisticated these days. -- tech arson is pretty sophisticated these days. you've got a lot more monitoring of what is going on out there, but certainly we know when we look at statistics, we can track certain things. it shouldn't be a surprise that we have a lot more outdoor fires during the fourth of july because people are setting off fireworks, and things like that. there are other techniques, but firefighters have walked around scenes to show me where some of these little camp fire rings got out of control or where the

embers hit the trees and the brush, where it moves because of the wind. they could immediately track it to where somebody had this small fire come out of control. and there is rules in almost every state around your responsibility for not setting fires, or if you do set a fire, that you are responsible financially. that's quite sophisticated. i think that it is also the process of elimination. a recent fire in california they are pretty sure was human caused because there was no lightning going on in the area at the time that the fire started. they could rule out one big factor. the meteorological tracking and prediction services are getting better and better year after year. host: michele steinberg, roy is next from kingston, north carolina. caller: the question i want to

ask is what do you think policies like the urban growth boundary have an impact on the wildlife urban interface? oregon is one of the few states that restricts urban sprawl. what impact do you think policies play on the wildlife-urban interface? does it lessen the threat? guest: i think those land use policies are critical and they are at the local level primarily . states can have a big hand in that as well, but that's someplace where the jurisdictional lines, it completely depends on where you are and who is in charge and who will make that happen. things like urban growth boundaries can focus on development in areas where it might be more -- you are more accessible to fire services if you are on the grid with water and roads, to allow a suppression to happen easily. the sprawl issue is real in many

places. we assume we can just continue to build out into these remote areas, but where are the services? how long now is it going to take a fire engine to get to your home? the expectation has to change. it tends to use sprawl, more services, more water. you need to extend this infrastructure to where the development is. i will say too, that you've got to look at both sides. it is not just aware. it is also the condition of the structures you are building. you can have cluster development that provides you all those response services more easily, but if you are building with flammable roofing material, for example, or allowing a lot of vegetation around these homes for ornamental landscaping, you will still have an issue where fire -- people think of fire sweeping in with big flames, and

this image that you have that if i am not up against the forest, i am safe. if you're building is well inside a community away from the forest, but has places on it, the roof, gutters, immediate surroundings that could catch embers blowing in from up to a mile away during some of these fires, and they are starting fires of their own. development is good for a lot of reasons, but you have to look at the condition of the home and surroundings in any development to reduce ignition risks. host: another big problem, the water levels in many lakes and streams across the western half of the country at record low levels. "western states sizzle under the triple digit temperatures." our next two callers are from out west, lewiston, colorado. what's it like. -- what's it like?

caller: it is going to be 100 10 today, expecting possible lighting for the next couple of days. that's not really the factor. i've had to evacuate numerous times because of these fires. they keep doing the same thing over and over again but seem not to be working. the so-called controlled burns, they changed the name to prescribed burns because the controlled burns would get out of control and start their own forest fires. that's been changed now to wildfires. the forest service doesn't want to have their name associated with that. but these large fires in the last couple of years, over 7 million acres burned in the last two years, have been started from vehicles were vehicle related, and they do nothing to clear the brush back from the road -- roadways.

the grass grows three to four feet tall. dead trees grow right to the road and produce a canopy across the road, so the roads create no fire break whatsoever. these controlled burns do nothing but fill our pristine wilderness full of smoky, silty air all year long. host: thanks for your first-hand account. guest: i would like to comment that the roadways was an important issue in pretty much across the west. if you think of the interstate five running california, oregon, washington, they do find more incidents of fire starting during the summer when people are recreating and towing things and sparks are because that way.

there is a campaign, one less spark, one less wildfire, that causes on the public to be -- calls on the public to be careful. the caller points out an important issue. the public can do one thing. what about the jurisdictions responsible for the land maintenance? this issue of wildfires starts and disasters is thorny, complex. disasters is thorny, complex. this resists a single solution. those partnerships in those collaborations need to happen to make sure that if the public is doing its part to minimize these sparks, what's happening with the actual fuel? is someone attending to that? host: this headline -- "the pacific northwest facing one of its most severe heat waves in history." our next caller from port

orchard, good morning. caller: good morning. i agree with everything that's been said. i'm so glad to hear someone talking about this. i've been born and raised in washington state, backpacker, hiker, love my woods and trees. it is a beautiful place but over the years what i see on the forest floor -- and we have talked timber -- is littered with dead trees. you go deep in the woods, if you are a hiker, and it is everywhere. you don't have to go far off the passes on the highway. also, the bug infestation. we have standing dead timber because of the beatles. nothing has been done. if a match goes or god forbid a fire starts, it is gone, the whole past will be gone. we had a good land commissioner

at one time, but she was shut down by some environmental group, some of which who don't even live here. they pushed legislation not to go in and clean out the woods. can't we have that changed? it would be beneficial. host: michele steinberg. guest: i appreciate hearing from cheryl. it is distressing to see the conditions changing in a way that you realize will cause the future to have worse outcomes. what's really important when people see that and understand that, this does get political. there are different forces at work trying to debate what should be done and what is best for folks. we are very fortunate to have a pretty vibrant network called the fire adaptive communities learning network across the u.s., that practitioners and agency people and others are looking at what's working out

there, best practices. i won't say it is going to go as far as helping specifically a state or region changes legislation, but they can provide good information and encouragement for folks to form these networks and really be, a bit of activist around what should we be doing? you will see the arguments from multiple sides of the issue, we don't want to touch any trees too, we know we need to do this because natural fire, again, because we've developed so much and it is dangerous for us to have natural fire in some of these areas now, that we will have smoke and fire impacts on our communities. it is very complicated, but it is really important as citizens see these issues, to get involved at that level. they have a voice and can have a very powerful voice when they get together. host: clearwater, florida, maria, good morning. caller: how are you?

host: go ahead. we can hear you. caller: can you hear me? host: go ahead. only about a minute left. caller: one minute for me. what's going on right now with this fire, my friend, this was already planned to make it happen. i feel so bad about what happened to them. let me tell you something one minute and then i'm going to end. if donald j. trump was still in control of our country -- which he is coming back -- beast things would never happened. he was here for four years, we never had these things, but as soon as he returns, our country will be back to normal. and i can't wait. i pray the almighty god that he is coming 2024 and he will run the rally also. he is the best president we ever had. that's why these things are happening.

whoever put the other one up there, because certainly it wasn't me. host: we appreciate your call. let me quickly go back to the policies that you say need to be put in place to try to mitigate or reduce the risk of these wildfires as we move into really the hottest days of july and august. guest: right, so to reiterate, wildfire policy tenets include helping people to retrofit and mitigate, do the work to reduce risk around homes and communities now. also, as new building comes in, that it meets sound building practices and codes, and land use print -- land-use planning, those are important tools we need to start deploying for new construction in wildfire areas. to continue to promote and push the hazardous fuel reduction on our forests and wastelands and

mitigate it on the landscape. many local firefighters do not have what they need in terms of preparedness clothing, equipment, and training. they are expected to respond to many of these incidents and we need to help them be safe and effective. finally, that we help the public , everybody that lives at this risk, let them know what to do and give them the tools. we do that for our fire wise usa program but there are many other ways to do it, as well as the safeway to evacuate should a fire come. those are the five pieces. host: nfpa, the national fire prevention association and our guest is joining us from quincy, massachusetts. guest: my pleasure. host: all of our coverage available online at c-span.org. live tonight at 7:00 eastern

time, 4:00 on the west coast, with former president trump as he travels to wilmington, ohio. a campaign rally that is live on c-span radio and the free c-span radio app. inc. you for being with us. we are back tomorrow morning at 7:00 a.m.. enjoy the rest of your weekend. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] ♪ >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. we are funded by these television companies and more, including comcast. >> you think this is just a community center? itwa