public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row c2 democracy. >> tonight on the communicators,. >> when you talk about digital oppression, there are ways that information and communication technologies are being used to further autocratic political agendas. the ways in which technology is being used via coercion and other means to accomplish political goals, particular for those leaders were not democratic, who have antidemocratic aspirations. >> watch the communicators with stephen feldstein. that's tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. >> "washington journal" is next, our guest includes a guest from the ford foundation who will talk about the future of work in

the workplace after the covid 19 pandemic ends and later, the property and environment research center talks about national forest and wildfires. "washington journal" starts right now live on c-span. host: this is "the washington journal," for july sick. a recent poll asked people to give their impressions on a particularly fine -- on the rise in violent crime in the united states and most people responded that when seen nationally they viewed it as a serious problem. locally they change their views on that as well. we will show you some of the results of the whole and in our first hour we will get your thoughts on crime rates in the united states, particularly in the community and if those are concerns for you. here is how you can let us know

this morning. (202) 748-8000 for the eastern central town -- time zones. (202) 748-8001 four mountain and pacific. if you want to text us your thoughts, (202) 748-8003. you can post on twitter, @cspanwj, and follow the show on instagram, @cspanwj. snapshot of the headlines over the weekend when it comes to the issue of violent crime out of richmond, the television station there, highlighting the fact that among the busy crowd of shoppers at white oak village, a boarded up window where 16-year-old jeremiah washington was shot and killed two days fire, the teen was one of 13 people shot over the holiday weekend throughout central virginia. turning to dallas-fort worth, the television station there captures it with the headline violence on the fourth, 23 people shot at ross fort worth and dallas across the holiday.

moving to the kansas city star, the headline from the fifth, 11 people shot in kansas city over three hours over the fourth of july holiday at the two police and cnn capturing what happened over the weekend when it came to violent crime, saying that hundred and 50 people were fatally shot with more than 400 shootings over the fourth of july weekend. the perception of rhyme us the united states was part of a poll conducted by "the washington post" and abc news. some of the findings when asked, 59% of americans think that crime is an extremely or very serious problem in the u.s. and that's an increase from 51% in the gallup polling last fall and the highest level since 2017 and the sentiment crosses party lines, worries are higher among republicans and -- then democrats, concerns over local crime is lower but it has grown

with people saying crime in the area is extremely serious, up from 10% last fall and the pole offers this when taking a look at some of the aspects of crime, saying that when asked, 55% of the majority in the polls say that more funding for police departments will be effective, half say stricter in whisman of gun laws would reduce crime, while slightly smaller, 46%, say the same of tougher gun laws. seven of 10 independents say that police would help to reduce violent crime while four in 10 republicans agree and eight out of 10 democrats say stricter enforcement of existing gun laws would reduce violent crime, dropping to about half of the independents and one quarter of republicans. that's just two perceptions on this -- perspectives on this poll, crime nationally and locally. for this hour we are asking you to share where you are at as far as local rhyme and if you are

concerned about it. if you want to relate it to national crime statistics, that's fine. give us a call, (202) 748-8000 if you live in the eastern and central time zones. (202) 748-8002 if you live in the --(202) 748-8001 if you live in the mountain or pacific time zones. the topic of crime was one that the biden administration went before cameras last couple of weeks ago to talk about, new efforts that they are making on the realm of ireland crime. this took place in june and president biden himself addressed trends in the rise of violent crime as he saw it and here are some of his perspectives from june. [video clip] >> crime historically rises during the summer. as we emerge from this pandemic, the country opening back up again, the traditional summer spike may even be more pronounced than usual. for folks at home, here is what

you need to know, i have been at this along time. there are things that we know that work to reduce gun violence and violent crime and things that we don't know about. things that we know about, background checks for purchasing a firearm are important. a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity magazines. no one needs a weapon that can fire 30, 40, 50, up to 100 rounds, unless you think that the deer are wearing kevlar vests or something. community policing and programs to keep neighborhoods safe and keep folks out of trouble, these efforts work and save lives. over time, these policies were gutted and woefully underfunded. host: you can see more of that presentation on our website. the chiefs association put out there take on information from agencies when it comes to crime

in the united states from 2020. they reported a rise in homicides of 8077 compared to 6000 seven in 2019. -- 6007 in 2019. robbery saw a decrease in 2019. one of the other categories, aggravated assault rising from 224,951. esta to -- that's statistical information from the major cities. the fbi gives a wider perspective in their third consecutive year, the number of violent crime, the estimated amount of violent rhyme decreased compared to previous year statistics where it was down 0.5% and property crime dropped 4.1%, marking the 17th consecutive year it declined,

adding that the 2019 statistics show the estimated rate of violent rhyme per 100,000 inhabitants, had an estimated rate of property crime that was higher per 100,000 inhabitants. those are just some of the statistics when it comes to the idea of crime rates. particularly if you live in your community, we want to get a sense of your concerns if you have them. call us on the line, post on the social media sites and text us your thoughts this morning is what -- as well. walcott, connecticut, you are on , tell us what you think. caller: hope everybody had a great fourth of july. i live in a small town next to a city that just produced their police budget, knocking down statues of pacific columbus and such. i live on a direct line that goes right out from that town.

couple things. first off, ar-15's, they keep talking about it as it stands for assault rifle and i don't believe it does. second of all, ar-15's are the number one gun used by single women to protect themselves. curious. second of all, when they reduce the budget next to me in the big town, i went out and bought a semi automatic to protect myself and my family. host: that's tony they're in walcott, connecticut. john is next in homer ville, georgia. crime rates are concerning your area, go ahead. caller: yes, we don't have any violent crime rate in our community, we are a small community in southeast georgia, population about less than 2000.

we do have a drug problem but it doesn't result in home invasions or robberies. the predominant have rifles, no ar-15's i think in our community, but our sheriff has recently asked the county commission to increase their budget, total budget being around 1.5 million. it's a pretty good place to live . unfortunately, i have a godson who recently moved to fort worth, dallas, where i see they have had 23 shootings over the

last 24 hours or over the weekend. so, that's where we stand. host: ok. john, homer ville, georgia, east coast, now to the west coast, tacoma, washington, matthew, good morning, go ahead. caller: a month ago at the beach i stepped on a towel and this crazy couple [no audio] host: are you still there? matthew, tacoma, still with us? ok, that was matthew. again, those are just some of the perspective people are bringing to the idea of crime rates, particularly in the concern for your community. you can add to the mix, call us, (202) 748-8000 for eastern and central time zones. if you live in the mountain or

pacific, (202) 748-8001. several of you posting on our facebook page before the start of the program this morning. this is christine on facebook saying yes, it's very scary times, thank god we have an awesome governor that supports law and order, though she doesn't list her state or where she's from. jimmy says no, i live in the suburbs. another thought from jeff on facebook saying that this american once more police and ray in elizabeth city, north carolina, saying the crime rate is of great concern but the talk of new laws makes little difference when it comes to changing hearts and minds, that is where the focus must be. those are some snapshot perspectives on social media and texting, you are welcome to participate that way, too. one of the people talking about this on the senate floor back in

may was mitch mcconnell, raising the issue. here is what he had to say back then. [video clip] >> not only do we need to disinvest from police, but it is intentionally racist, no more policing, incarceration and militarization. incredulous people ask whether this nonsense was ever meant seriously. helpfully, one member of congress clarified that defunding police means defunding police. a clarifying comment. a small set of politicians may see selfish opportunities for fame or fundraising if they do fame and defund the police, but american families are paying a deadly price. defunding the police isn't just a terrible idea for overall

public safety, it's a uniquely awful strategy for racial justice. one study recently confirmed that larger police forces save lives and allies saved our disparate orson atlee black lives. look, i'm not sure exactly how the rantings of the far left twitter about crime and policing became official democratic party dogma across america. what i do know is that ordinary americans cannot they are much more of this. that goes double for the most vulnerable neighborhoods. host: by the way, in the realm of politics, when it comes to that abc news survey and the topic of crime overall, it highlights the fact that americans gave president biden a negative rating for how he has handled the crime issue, according to the poll. 38% approving, 48% disapproving and adding that a sizable 14%

offer no opinion. another poll taking on the perception of crime. this is from yahoo! news, in a survey of 1592 u.s. adults conducted back in june, they found a significant majority now describe violent crime as a very big problem in the united states. far more than the grave concern over the coronavirus pandemic, economy, or political correctness and more striking is the number of americans who consider it a big problem rose over the last month and republicans for whom the number increased were not the only ones contributing to the increase, adding that last month 45% of democrats describe violent crime is a very big problem and now the number is eight points higher. that's yahoo! news and you give. let's go to stephen sarasota,

florida. go ahead. caller: hello, pedro, thank you for take my call. i'm a health care worker that primarily works in crinkle care. i worked in a trauma center for 11 years and this is nothing new . i just saw an article on wgn news that over the fourth of july weekend there were 16 fatalities and 100 shootings in chicago. i can tell you going back that this is not a new problem. as far as the solution, i'm in favor of gun laws and gun control, but it feels like closing the barn door is -- after the horses out. and then people say additional law enforcement, but unless you could put a police officer every corner and every household, that's kind of after the fact. i think that these are systemic, societal problems that need to be addressed at that level.

one last comment, if there were 16 fatalities and 100 shootings at an embassy in a foreign country over a weekend, there would be a military response to that, wouldn't there? host: you said you were in the field of social services? caller: no, health care. critical care, primarily. host: part of the debate going on is to take portions of the police budget and apply them to the social needs work among communities with big crime problems and i wondered if that thoughts on that. caller: i don't know that you need to take away from the police to do that, but i do agree though, if done correctly, that is the only way we can approach this problem, you know? personally, that's what i think. thank you for taking my call. sorry? host: no, let's go to ray in elizabeth city, north carolina. guest: -- caller: good morning, thank you for taking my call. yes, the crime rate is of great

concern. but what we hear is a lot of talk about gun laws, talk of changing gun laws. all the talk on laws, it does very little difference in changing hearts and minds. that is what needs to be focused on. host: do you think the concerns about crime are bigger nationally or equally as large in elizabeth city there? caller: well, i believe nationally, but each community has their own concerns. there is no russian about that. each community has a different approach on how to deal with it. my suggestion is focus on hearts and minds. churches, there are outreach programs. teach right and wrong.

when hearts and minds are changed, the community changes. host: to clarify, would you say you have a large crime problem or a moderate rhyme problem in elizabeth city? how would you describe it? caller: i would say moderate. it's a good community here. i feel safe. which is a good feeling. but again -- host: ok, we got your thoughts there. tom, tennessee, can i ask what part? caller: just outside knoxville. host: gotcha, go ahead. caller: yes, crime rates are a concern. they have been an increasing concern over the last several years and in the last six to 12 months.

i would say that they have grown as an exponential rate of concern. i don't believe that the way to do it is to impose more laws or infringe on people's freedoms. but, i do think imposing or rather enforcing the laws that we currently have and enabling police to do that, rather than programs that seem to be band-aids rather than actual solutions is the way to do this. i think the caller mentioned hearts and minds and letting private entities, like churches and things like that step up. but, we do have police budgets in those need to be wisely used.

there are only so many committees you conform, so many taskforces you can discuss and eventually the money has to go to those who have an active role in enforcing the laws. if we don't do that, i think it's only going to get to be a problem that gets worse. instead of better. host: if i may ask you, tom, your governor just passed legislation for permit lists carrie of handguns. how do you think that changes the situation? caller: i believe it suit -- too soon to tell. there is a constitutional right to people have to keep and bear arms. i don't know how much this will help or address that, it only went into effect a few days ago. it's too short of a sample size to tell.

you know, in 12 to 24 months, maybe we will know, maybe we will see. that may have an effect and i think it is very way too soon to tell right now. i hope it has a better effect, a good affect, but i don't believe it's going to be a cure-all. host: ok. that is tom there, just outside not bill, tennessee, giving his thoughts. max, most crime is a result of crime and desperation. many are living paycheck-to-paycheck, it isn't sustainable and it will -- will only get worse if we only take care of the middle and lower classes -- if we don't take care of the middle and lower classes. crime is up year-over-year that's true but that's because it was down last year, there was a pandemic taking place. down to 2020 levels, not on

increase. this is from joan, minnesota, saying that her little community is pretty safe that that larger communities have become dangerous compared to the -- to the past and she no longer goes to the committee -- the cities that used to be safe. bruce in baltimore, maryland, go ahead, you are next. host: good morning. -- caller: good morning. i live in monmouth city. 300 homicides in the last few years -- last two years. the city is smaller now. i'm say this, it's always been one party rule with democrats. i'm a republican conservative and i'm sick and tired of rhyme and a lot of the cop outs. social issues, i'm not saying it doesn't contribute, but that's a copout. you want to know what the problem is? the drugs, the drug dealers, the

gang bangers. our illustrious mayor doesn't want to hear this, he would rather play the race card. he's more concerned with changing columbus day. i mean he is an idiot, i will say that. black lives matter, antifa. and nancy pelosi? they want to defund the police? federal law officers showing up in portland, oregon when black lives matter did and they tried to burn down the federal courthouse. host: so if that's all the issues, how do you resolve it? caller: well, it's not going to be easy. we are going to need more aggressive law enforcement and of course, the narrative in monmouth city is that it's not a law enforcement issue, it's a health issue. everybody has been traumatized. i say, copout. host: ok.

that's bruce there in baltimore. quentin, what part of north carolina are you calling from? caller: western part of north carolina. host: thanks for calling, go ahead. caller: absolutely crime rates are a concern but i feel we are mixing issues. you have also let a lot of criminals out of prison. even if you had full funding for police, it lets the people out of prison. some of it shouldn't even be free right now. me and my family have been traveling in the united states. just the amount of people not even mentally healthy that wouldn't be on the streets that we have been seeing is mind blowing.

so, i heard you ask the last caller about the result. the resolve is bringing back families. a lot of people say that poverty is the reason that crime rates are up, and i believe it is the breakdown of the family and if we had more support families and for keeping families together, this would tremendously decrease crime. obviously, that's a long-term plan. on the short-term, i feel as though when we say defund the police, we need to talk about a specific area that we want to defund the police. for example, way before this conversation started on the police, my thoughts were it's a lot of police pulling people over, giving tickets, and it isn't decreasing crime on the highway. they should be somewhere doing more important police work, so that's my thoughts on the

situation. host: ok. that was quentin. if you live in the eastern central time zones, it's (202) 748-8000. if you live in the mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. one of the areas in which the biden administration address to the topic of violent crime, they went to the ideas of gun laws and efforts by the attorney general's office, back in june president biden talked about the issue. merrick garland talked about the issue, here's what he had to say back then. [video clip] >> last month the justice department launched a comprehensive rhyme reduction strategy that is built around four principles. setting strategic enforcement priorities, fostering trust and legitimacy in the communities, investing in community-based prevention and into -- prevention and intervention programs and measuring the

results of these efforts to a decrease in violent crime, not merely by arrests and convictions as if they were ends in themselves. now, we know the lion share of violent crime reduction work is shouldered by the state, local, tribal, and territorial law enforcement partners and core to the strategy is targeted support of the critical work that you will be doing in the weeks and months ahead. everyone of the u.s. attorney's offices is working with local partners to establish a trend in addressing the spike in violent crime that typically occurs during the summer. the law enforcement components of the department are making enhanced resources available to help prevent and disrupt violent crime and to focus on the most dangerous, violent offenders. host: that event from last month, sign in on our website,

c-span.org. the fbi 2019 estimated 1.2 million violent crimes compared to the estimates from 2018 the robbery consensus fell and of the volume of rape, revised definitions, decreasing 2.7%. it also says that the arrest rate for violent crime was 150 6.3 per 100,000 inhabitants and the arrest rate for a pretty crimes, 343.3 per 100 inhabitants. the arrest rate for murder and nonnegligent manslaughter was 3.4 per 100,000 inhabitants. rape, using revised definition, robbery, 24.7, with aggravated assault, 100 and 20.8. these figures were from 2019 and if you want to go to their website and examine the trends that have been happening when it comes to violent crime, that's

one thing. the pole from "the washington post" talk about perception of violent crime in the united states and locally and we are asking you to give an impression on where those things lie with you. you can talk about it nationally, if you whisk. -- if you wish. brenda, georgia, you are next up. caller: good morning. host: high, you are on. -- hi, you are on. caller: we live in north georgia. the tennessee governor has it so anybody can go buy guns. host: yeah, we talk about it with a previous caller. caller: that's ridiculous. the people that love police and they put all that danger right in front of them? my advice with a policeman would be don't pull anybody over for anything unless you are in a big crime scene somewhere.

where you have got a bunch of other policeman with you, don't take anything on yourself. every tom, deck, and harry has a gun. that doesn't make me feel safe. it doesn't make me feel safe if i go to a shopping place and i seal these people with guns on their side. to me it's fear. i'm just sick of it. they need to get rid of these ar-15's. that's only something the military or the police should have. that's just ridiculous for any common person to have that gun. host: as far as your concerns in georgia, what is your level of concern in chickamauga? caller: it's pretty calm, but we have a lot of older people in the community and we don't have that many places for young people to gather were many things going on. host: brenda there, georgia,

giving us a perception on where she lives. now to tuscaloosa, alabama. next, hello. caller: yes, i agree with the lady you were just speaking with pertaining to the assault rifles , i don't see where there's a need to, but in tuscaloosa, alabama, it's just ridiculous. i hear people talking about defunding police and churches, but until we go back, when i grew up there was discipline in the home, discipline in the school, discipline and the community. but now that's gone. we have lost of that. we must put more into the homes so that parents are not raising those children better than mine. i was brought up that way.

surely, the police cannot be everywhere. i don't care if it's 10 billion out there, they can't go to every home to see where these problems occurred. one other thing, i'm black, but until we start addressing the black crime where we are killing up each other, i just don't understand. people are afraid to say it, but it's true. it's ridiculous and senseless. we need more discipline in the home. churches are there to teach religious wishes and we must go back to the home to hold parents accountable for our children. host: bobby, if i made, tuscaloosa, is crime such a concern that it affect the way you live? -- effects the way you live? caller: yes in the sense, the shooting at the mall, it carries over. you go out and you go to a certain area and they know that

is a low time area, so they avoid that and so do i. i'm 77 years old. you avoid the area because i don't say the police doesn't care, but they just can't be everywhere all the time. don't just think it's going to be contained to that area because of those. here's another thing, the people that's committed them crimes that we spoke about, we do need some type of gun control. i don't know the answer to that, but it's too readily available for the teenagers to get guns. yes, it does affect the way that you live because you are just afraid to leave your home and certain areas. just passing these drive-by shootings on the street, it's a concern. host: ok, bobby, giving his experience in tuscaloosa and we are inviting you to do the same. want to call in give your

perspective? (202) 748-8000. that's for those in eastern and central time zones. mountain and pacific time zones, (202) 748-8001. greg texts us to say that the least are not now nor have ever been the solution and if you think so, you have been watching too much tv. charlotte, anderson, saying that as far as she knows, the crime rate in just her community is not high but that her governor in iowa passed a gun law, so time will tell. frank, nashville, saying that if you want to reduce gun deaths, you need to stop gun trafficking and reduce sales. chicago cannot reduce gun deaths if people traffic guns into the city. republicans need to pass universal background checks. no permit to carry guns is going in the wrong direction.

you can share with us in a text, (202) 748-8003, or our facebook page, or twitter feed. stephanie, beaverton, oregon. caller: i'm in forest grove, actually. host: ok. caller: we moved here in 2003 with general motors and general motors has transferred us to a few different places. it was amazing. we went to a concert outside and they were selling glass bottles of wine. i thought, wow, i don't think i have ever been anywhere where they give you glass at a concert. usually it's plastic, they don't want people beating each other in the heads and stuff. we went to numerous concerts. we went to see the temptations. there were blacks, whites,

chinese, people all their. it was security, nothing ever happened though and security never had to do anything. we have been to portland for concerts and it's always just everybody gets along. everything is fine. i couldn't believe it. i mean, i had not lived somewhere where it was that everybody together, working together. the tribal people, one year there was some problems here with the budgeting in oregon, contributing $1000 at the casino . they contributed $1 million to the state to help out. i didn't see any of this, what was coming. i didn't see it at all. i'm still scratching my head, wondering what happened. it's been like over a year where black lives matter and antifa have done everything they can to destroy portland, oregon. they have done all they can.

filling dumpsters with stuff, setting it on fire, putting it against buildings with people in it, people are blocked in, trying to burn the building down . the police can do nothing. the mayor has hands tied and they can do nothing and they stand in a line in front of the building they are trying to destroy and try to chase them back and they come on and they don't do anything, they just and they're like robots because it is what they are instructed to do. they freeze cans of coca-cola and throw them. they freeze bottles of water and throw them. they freeze eggs and throw them. the fireworks that they shoot into the sky, they shoot at them host:. host:-- at them. host: what's the resolve? caller: they should have stopped. the insurance companies won't even cover the window replacements anymore. caller: that is debbie there,

talking about her experience in oregon. johnstown, pennsylvania, john is next, you are next up, hello. caller: yes, according to the southern poverty law center, there are 900 and 40 hate groups in the united states. there are 28 in pennsylvania here. these groups, a lot of these groups have infiltrated the black lives matter movement and in portland, a lot of the groups , like qanon, the patriot boys, neo-nazis, ku klux klan, daily stormer, liberation front, radio werewolf, national socialist movement -- host: with all that, the issue of crime rates in johnstown is directly impacted? caller: johnstown is a pretty safe city, it has one of the lowest crime rates in the nation

. it's always been on the low list. we have had some drug problems in the past. as far as hate groups grow -- go, we had a leader here who was a part of the clue clocks clan, barry black, that was the worst of that group. but these people arrested in portland, every one of them arrested for causing fires and everyone else, they were a part of these right wing hate groups. rittenhouse. host: how do you say that definitively, then? caller: pardon me? host: how do you say that definitively, then? caller: antifa is getting blamed for a lot of this but they are not a part of the fires and the problems in these cities that had fires. it was the neo-nazis, it was the skinheads and write wing groups ian arrested. host: ok.

crystal, florida, brian, go ahead. caller: it's actually a kind of rural place but if you go to the outskirts or down into tampa or the other side, like west palm beach, look out. 14-year-old boys on dirt likes next to you who will blow your brains out, you know what i'm saying? far as the rest of the comments about anti-guns, ar doesn't even stand for automatic rifle. you know? i don't know what everybody was celebrating fourth of july for yesterday if they don't like guns, right? host: so, you are saying that locally there's not a big crime or there are some crime issues but what about florida as a whole? caller: florida has been spiraling out of control as soon as you go into the urban areas. there are some parts that you

don't want to mess around with. i keep hearing white supremacy this, kkk that. i was in the army back in the 90's. there were a few skinheads out of the hole dag gone thing. i don't know any kkk or skinheads. it's all ginned up. but if you are looking at the blm, look at the mission statement of the clue clocks clan. there's no difference. host: how do you come to that conclusion? caller: let's pull up the seven foundations and 13 steps of the black lives matter. host: we don't have times to do it -- time to do all that, how do you draw that conclusion? caller: they are one in the same. replace the word black for white every time, you will find that they are racist trash. host: ok, that's ryan. jimmy, bultman, maryland. jimmy, go ahead.

caller: i went on the internet, place called world population review. calm. talks about the 10 most dangerous states and it might be interesting to listen to that. number one was mississippi. two was louisiana. three was florida. arkansas is four, texas is five, oklahoma is six, missouri is seven. georgia is nine. then south carolina. host: the point? caller: no point, that's the top 10. caller: we are talking -- host: we are talking about crime rates. how is it there in maryland? caller: it's a hodgepodge, like a lot of other places. where i live it's great, other places it's dangerous. host: what makes the difference? caller: who knows.

i guess the more heavily lee populated condensed lower educated less jobs. i actually think the resolution to it, you have asked a couple of people. if you educate people well and they have a great jobs, they are less likely to commit crime. host: jimmy there, baldwin, maryland. andy barr was on the floor of the house. a speech that took place in june. here is some of that perspective from june. [video clip] >> john f. kennedy designated may 15 as peace officers memorial day. it falls as national police week.

sadly, mr. speaker, president biden broke the tradition in his proclamation on may 7 and politicized police officer memorial day by criticizing police for distrust that some americans have of law enforcement. blaming the police or the increase in anti-police sentiment is not how we honor those who swear the oath to uphold public trust, even though they become targets for senseless acts of violence. fatal attacks on officers spiked 31.6% in early 2021, coming on the heels of major cities like chicago, new york, and los angeles vowing to defund their police departments. it's no wonder these cities have seen a devastating and dramatic increase in homicides and shootings in 2021. this is what you get when you call for defunding the police. host: again, that was andy barr, back in june.

we will continue taking your calls on the topic for the next 15 minutes or so. in the next call -- during the next call we will show you these headlines from across the united states in dealing with the issues of crime. pat in jackson, tennessee, you are up, go ahead. host: good morning, pedro. i'm sitting in listening and you had a couple of dollars call in about the crime rate, the crimes that they say were done during the portland oregon marching. now pedro, c-span i'm sure has the information on those people who were arrested who showed up and were knocking out windows and even setting the police

station on fire in one place and they were found to be those people to guide mentioned about the what is it, the white supremacist groups. now, see, if y'all can't be some of the solving of problems with these callers coming in saying what antifa did or what black lives matter did, they, those, those people who did those crimes infiltrated that is for march. host: the point of our conversation today is talking about crime, particularly where you live there, jackson, tennessee, how would you describe that? caller: talking about the crimes and they bring that out, you have had people to talk about what the black lives matter people tore up and everything,

but they didn't, it wasn't them. host: sure, we have done segments on these topics auntie and you can go to our website to find that. again, local crime and your perception of it is where you are going today. what would you describe it as? caller: you are talking about, speaking about crime. host: how do you perceive it in jackson, tennessee? caller: it's not as good as it should be. that's what i would say. it's not, i wouldn't say it's first on the list. in memphis, the area that we have, there's a lot more than we have in jackson. but i think it is the responsibility of c-span as a newsgathering entity that you need to stop those people from

telling those tales. if you repeat a lie often enough , then people believe it. host: ok. that's pat, in jackson, tennessee. we are a public affairs operation with journalistic outlooks and what people have brought up previously we have covered a lot ever since january 6. that is all available on our website, c-span.org. cleveland, ohio. gerald? caller: yes, this is gerald from cleveland, ohio. host: go ahead. as far as the idea of crime nationally or locally in cleveland, how would you describe it? caller: i would like to let you guys know that antifa and black lives matter do not represent the african-american community across the nation. antifa and black lives matter do

not represent african-americans across america worldwide. let me tell you something. host: so, again, you can express that, but as far as cleveland, ohio, let's dark there. we are asking about perceptions of crime in the area. caller: we are going to stop all of that downtown in cleveland, ohio. we need to, we need to, we need to investigate, we need to -- host: david, let's go to you in north carolina, good morning. caller: my concern is that if people start respecting one another, this crime rate and all these other issues would cease. this domestic violence situation in the homes between husbands

and wives, respect one another. these race problems, start respecting one another and they will cease. that's what i'm contributing to this conversation. host: why do you think it boils down to that? caller: no one is respecting one another. they are pointing guns at each other, making accusations towards one another. they know the real truth out there. they are not respecting one another. you have to look a man in the eye to respect who he is. a woman can't look another woman in the eye and respect who they are. host: do you think it is that easy to change hearts and minds in the way that you're talking about? caller: it starts with oneself. defunding the police, start with the police thing. it's the officers responsibility. he makes the decision to do what it is that he's going to do.

if he doesn't respect the individual he's confronted against, he's going to do harm to the person. if you treat people with respect, you get respect back. host: that is david there in north carolina. the safety of law enforcement officers, a concern of christopher wray at a budget hearing recently. he talked about budget but he also talked about where the u.s. was when it came to the protection of law enforcement officers. some of your thoughts on that hearing? -- his thoughts on that hearing. [video clip] >> this year the number of officers injured on the job is surpassing last years. tragically and includes the loss of two members of the guy family , as senator moran mentioned. shot and killed down near miami

in february. we honored dan and laura's memory every day through our work, work that has unfortunately not gotten any easier given the diverse array of threats that we face as a country. that is why i appreciated having a candid conversation with all of you during the ossified roundtable in march. i wish i could tell you that we have got all the resources we need to carry out the mission to protect the american people and uphold the constitution, but the funds that we already resting will go a long way towards doing just that. host: a story this morning from "the washington times," what's happening in new york and those police officers, fine forms after i'm surge, saying that it is the benevolence association with other lobbies calling the anti-police rhetoric is causing cops and detectives to seek early retirement but the

reversal of the overhaul their tops the wish list with bail changes enacted at the state level of 2020 is for defendants who cannot afford release pending trial. no one is being held in jail and there are a tremendous mental guns on the street. a representative from that organization says there is more to the story therefrom "the washington times." that's their front page story. syracuse, new york, ray, go ahead. caller: it's really simple, from my point of view. crime cause and prevention is a science and the united dates. we are the pinnacle of science and have been for generations. so, this problem, we have solved this over and over again but what we are seeing today is the effect of an infiltration into

our country from outside our country. and you are going to be hearing about this in the next few months. so, that is what's going on at this time. host: when you say we have solved the problem, exactly how? caller: as i just said, this is a science. we know what causes it, we know what the solutions are. we haven't been perfect. we are humoring that humans, we are sinners, we balk against what we are told to do. but compared to the world, and what else could you compare us to, we are the place that everyone wants to be, in part because we have less crime. host: can you give me an example of a solution that has been applied? caller: yeah, policing. neighborhood policing around the country. look at the places that do it.

look at what happened with giuliani and during the trump administration, the larger cities, how much better they got. look at the places where the democrats run the cities. they have the same science, the same people. everything is the same, the only difference is how it's managed. host: what science are you applying? caller: the science of psychology, what makes people commit crime. this is a science that is well studied and we are the pinnacle in the world. host: ok. ray, new york, syracuse. keith and ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. what causes the deaths, the drugs and everything like that? i'm 37 minutes away from columbus and i hate to say it, they had over 115 deaths in the

last few months. i hate to go through columbus. every time you turn on the tv, you can hear somebody in the next week or two, turn the tv to channel 10 and you find out somebody else got shot. host: that's the columbus. what's the situation in newark? caller: it's fine in newark. i haven't heard anybody ever get shot in a newark. i'm just saying don't come through columbus to newark. host: what do you think is the difference between the localities? caller: columbus has got more of the drugs going on over there. like the gangs and stuff over there. rather than here. host: ok. keith, ohio, giving us his specter there, comparing it to

the major city of columbus. this isn't working right now, but we will try to read some more between and such and so forth. let's hear from kevin. hello. caller: hello, pedro. our crime rate here is about average compared to what has been and we are a 15 minute drive from charlotte. i know that the crime rate spiked, but here we still stand behind and respect the police. i have something else to say since i already said the part you want me to say. the asian gay burn -- asian gay journalist that was beaten by nt for, he posts the faces and it's not white supremacy. it's nt for. white people dressed in black -- host: ok. let's go to marge in michigan. caller: thank you for taking my

call. i live in the small community and the crime, we don't notice it that much. we are rural. what i really think the problem is is the building behind you, that's where the problem stems. the politicians are selling all the division. i also believe that we, our congress and senate has been infiltrated by the squad. that's all i have to say. host: going back, if we are talking about crime is a political problem, why do you think that is? caller: they are selling the division and pushing the narrative. everybody says, they all say unite. and they are the ones who are so divisive among themselves. they are supposed to be our leaders, what are they teaching

the people? host: ok. that was marge, finishing us offer this hour talking about rhyme in crime rates. two guests joining us through the course of the morning. first we hear from the ford foundation on the future of work in the workplace after the covid-19 pandemic ends. later on in the program, a research fellow for the property and environmental research center talking about the annual report on the wildfire season. those conversations, coming up on "the washington journal." ♪ >> c-spanshop.org is our strong line. your part -- our store online. your purchase will support our operations and you have time to order the congressional directory with contact information.

go to c-span shop.org. >> today, a discussion about the israeli-palestinian conflict with foreign diplomats and state department officials. live from the wilson center at 10:00 eastern on c-span. online at c-span.org, or you could listen on the free c-span radio app. ♪ >> weekends on c-span two are an intellectual feast. every saturday you will find events and people that have explored our nation's past on american history tv. on sunday, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction authors area -- authors. learn, discover, explore, weekends on c-span2. ♪ [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> washington journal continues. host: our first guest this

morning is sarita gupta for the ford foundation. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you, pedro, it's great to be here. host: talk about the ford foundation and the futures of worker program, tell us what that is. guest: the ford foundation is a large social justice philanthropy. its mission is to tackle inequality in all of its forms. the future of workers program is aimed at looking at how we can ensure and support advocates on the frontline and business leaders eager to use the position -- their position to drive change. to reimagine work that empowers workers and compels players to take appropriate responsibility for worker conditions and living standards and urge lawmakers to -- any gaps. host: i suppose you have been

looking at the impacts of the pandemic, particularly on workers. what's the impression that your organization is getting about where workers are? guest: let me say, first of all, it's clear to us that the pandemic has revealed really important issues for working people. there is a need for a care infrastructure in our country and the need to address wages and better working conditions and the quality of jobs available for workers to really address health and safety issues. those are some of the many issues. and really the importance of workers being part of creating a solution to how we achieve a just economic recovery. host: from the worker's perspective, what can they do? how much power do they have? guest: that's a great question.

it's important to know that workers are really in a hard situation. over the pandemic, this has definitely shown us the incredible inequalities that exist for workers, filling jobs in america has made it clear that workers are saying for themselves that they don't want to accept just any job. no matter how low the wages or lack of benefits, it's important that they are evaluating and assessing what types of jobs will allow them to sustain themselves and their families. the reality is, workers have been experiencing stagnant wages, a lack of access to benefits and a real lack of voice. that was all before the pandemic. now what we are seeing is too many workers are really without

the kinds of protections they need. that's why our program is focused on how we can ensure that all workers, regardless of their pacification have equal rights to labor protection and social protection and that we are shaping the policies and economics that are affecting their lives. host: not all workers were impacted the same during the pandemic. so what is the snapshot of the worker you are talking about. what is the common denominator? guest: one common denominator is that many of the workers we are talking about are essential workers. some are frontline workers. but they are essential workers which means they have been in a low-wage job and they have really lacked access to basic social protections or benefit and they are often risking their own lives in order to make sure that you and i have the

groceries we need. that we have a coffee we want in the morning or whatever the case. the food at our table area what we have seen over the last few months is that without really ensuring that workers have the kind of care infrastructure needed and access to health and safety protections that are needed, and better wages and access to benefits, we are really putting too many workers and their families in precarious living situations. host: our guest is with us until 8:45, talking about the future workers for it here's how you can call us. if you are under the age of 30 call us at (202) 748-8000. if you're between ages of 30 and 50 call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are over 50, call (202) 748-8002.

does age factor into the issues? particularly those most affected? guest: age is an issue. but what's interesting is that this pandemic has availed two things. i will talk about parents because i think that's where age becomes important. every person, there is point in their lives will need care. and care is essential for a just economic recovery. the reason this matters in terms of ages because on the first point about every person experiencing and needing care, america is the only advanced economy with the universal infrastructure in place to -- without an infrastructure to support families. care is unaffordable for too many people. think about it, 70% of the u.s. workforce earns less than $50,000 per year while annual childcare costs start at $10,000 per year and nursing homes at

$80,000 per year. the math doesn't add up. this impacts the quality of care children, older adults, and people with disabilities can access. the reason this is important for us to understand why care is essential is because the height of the pandemic saw plain as day of the ramifications of how a flimsy care infrastructure was felt by workers. disproportionately for women of color. with schools and days cares -- daycare's close, millions of families were left with impossible work-life demands. we have gotten nearly 2.5 million women, largely women of color, forced to drop out of the workforce as a result. on top of that, just as personal health has been at risk through the pandemic, our economic well-being is in jeopardy. with the economy in turmoil, it's crucial that we keep care

at the forefront of the plans. frankly, over the next five years, the bureau of labor statistics estimates that more than half of the work force will be caring for an aging adult. age matters in the sense of people like me, in the sandwich generation who has childcare needs and eldercare needs are being squeezed in this immense way. we can make different choices to make sure that we have the kind of care infrastructure we need. host: in your mind and your organization's mind, do those choices fall on federal government to resolve? guest: i think government has to do its part to make change at scale. but i do think there are other stakeholders involved. at the ford foundation we are partnering with a powerhouse set of grantmakers together to make and create what we are calling the care for all with respect and equity fund.

this is a $15 million multiyear investment to support a broad-based movement for care that includes paid leave, childcare and early education, long-term support for older adults and people with disabilities and high jobs for all care workers. we think philanthropy has a role to play. we think businesses several to play. we think government, definitely, has a big role to play to make change at the that need. host: you can call our guest, you can also text and post online. on the front page of one of the papers, out of kentucky, it talks about employers offering particularly to workers to come back post-pandemic. i want to show you the headline. what do you think as far as employers, is their opportunity out there for workers who are maybe not in an ideal situation now to improve their situation?

guest: let me say, workers are not accepting business as usual. there's no going back to normal after this world altering traumatic pandemic. after the instant -- after the instability, widespread disregard for workers'health and their expectation, this has led to a major reassessment by what will her -- for what workers are willing to accept on the job. that's important to keep in mind. employers play a big role, they are -- it's important that employers create good quality jobs and are including workers in the protocols to return to work. those are really important types of data. that shifts how workers think about their job and what types

of job they are willing to take. it's really important. right now, as we think about what's happening and the fact that employers are having a hard time finding workers to take jobs, it should hopefully incentivize businesses to do better for workers. to make sure that there is health and safety protections in place and better wages and working conditions. this is important, and ultimately, we believe it will create a huge difference for business. ultimately, this is about proximity. proximity must be a bedrock approach to addressing the multiple crises of the pandemic, the economic crisis and racial reckoning. so it is about partnering, not dictating to workforces. the pandemic has made this clearer than ever. we actually saw study recently that has been very influential

in our thinking at the ford foundation. nursing homes with greater worker voice and engagement faced 30% fewer deaths due to covid. people first management and worker voices saved lives. host: let's hear from marie, in lancaster, pennsylvania, on the line for those over 50. thank you for calling. you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: good morning. i'm very happy you took my call. today, employers do not take care of their workers. for example, i recall even in the government where they would have workers, everybody had some

form of insurance to provide health care. if no longer like that -- it is no longer like that. they ask that an employer who is getting close to minimum wage has to contribute to their own plan. and when you have an extensive health care -- inexpensive health care, you cannot take care of your family. and the government has been infiltrated by profit minded outsourcing people. and when they come, they destroy the cycles that help people together. which is to have some form of insurance as part of their needs . host: thank you. we will let our guest respond. guest: thank you for those points.

i want to share, in addition to health insurance that you referenced, in april, a poll by one of our grantee partners, just capital, found that nearly 30% of employees say they still did not feel safe at work. that was about a year into the pandemic. a quarter said that employees did not have a voice to developing their employers covid safety and health protocols through this is not only a humanitarian problem, it's bad for business. it's bad for public health. the pandemic reminded us that all workers, especially those in the lower paying front-line roles have unique insight and expertise into customers and business models. when you activate workers as partners, you can build safer workplaces, more engaged and high-performance cultures and orders billion operations.

there are things that businesses can take to address health care, but also to address worker health and safety. you could offer paid sick days to all workers, whether they are full-time, part-time, or contractors. this must also include days offer vaccine recovery, and essential protections should be guaranteed to all workers including ppe and social distancing and notifying employees of the voter and contact tracing. the biggest breakdowns are happening with vendors and supply chains. all of this is to say that, to marie's point, we have to take a human resource approach. of people first approach. to how to bring about the echo nominee -- the economic recovery want is to specifically address the health and safety for workers. that's one of the number one issues workers are grappling with.

host: barbara, in michigan, on the line for over 50. caller: everything sounds great except for there's one problem. without unions, these things don't happen. i have been working since i was 16 years old and there's no one job i've ever had, whether it was in a store, a restaurant, logging company, in a factory, not one job have i ever had or anyone else i know that was ever unionized. and if they say they're going to go union, the company's pullout. so you get no retirement, no pay leave, no maternity leave. you get nothing. if so how is any of this can happen if you can't unionize question why could you answer for me? guest: sure. thank you for that point.

it's a really important point that you're making. when i talk about worker voice, part of what i'm talking about is the ability to collectively bargain. you are absolutely right, workers who are not in unions are at a clear disadvantage when it comes to having access to the kinds of benefits that you talked about. the programs and the supports you referenced. it is important to keep in mind that over the last four decades, we have seen an absolute decimation of worker voice and attacks on collective bargaining rights. we believe at the ford foundation networkers having a voice in as many different forms, including through a union is really essential. there's lots of work happening now as we partner with many worker advocates and unions who are pushing for labor law reform . who are pushing for policies

that actually ensure broader labor protections and access and the ability to form unions for water swaths -- broader swaths of workers. and let me say, we are in a really important choice point as a nation. we could decide to bring in and usher in another generation of labor policies and labor laws that exclude broad swaths of workers because we don't value their work. or, we could make a choice to create more inclusive economic policies. that's what we are advocating for. that's what we are supporting at the ford foundation and what we are seeing our advocates, the great work they are doing, including the right to form unions and collectively bargain. host: a viewer off of twitter is addressing the workers that you were talking about. everyone has a replacement

waiting for them, there are few that are essential workers and those are transient. how would you respond to that? guest: it's important to keep in mind, there are workers that are seeking jobs. there are jobs that need workers. this goes back to the -- the idea that workers are transient, there's conversations, especially in the gig economy where we talk about flexibility. and you can't have flexibility and economic security. i think we have to actually unravel that narrative. it is simply not true. there are workers who want to work. they want respect, dignity, safety on the job, that her wages and better working conditions -- better wages and better working conditions for there's no excuse. there's a level of income

inequality that we see in this country where the top zero point 1% making more money than they know what to do with and the bottom 90% suffering and struggling to make ends meet. in this moment, we need to rethink, better quality jobs. how can we be sure that workers can access the kind of care support they need and flexibility they need to have the kind of economic security that we know is better for our economy. and it's better for business overall. adjust economic recovery is depending on these factors, including increasing vaccination, work support, and increasingly thriving economies and communities. it's important that we don't play into a narrative that

there's just a lot of workers and the workers can be replaced. workers are showing us and telling us that they are not taking jobs that are not giving them the support they need. that's exactly the direction we are going on. it's important for businesses and also policymakers to really understand and adopt and embrace what's happening. just to say the fact that we have policymakers who are pulling already allocated federal stimulus funds in the form of pandemic unemployment benefits out of the economy will only slow down recovery. and make things worse for workers. so going back to request an, pedro, there are multiple stakeholders who have to work together to create a better future for workers. host: this is sarita gupta of the ford foundation. john, from corpus christi, texas, your next step. caller: we have to regulate the

cost of basic necessities like housing, groceries, utilities, gasoline, basic necessities that are necessary for survival. we don't regulate the cost of basic necessities it doesn't matter how high you raise the minimum wage. the corporate interest will immediately wipe it out by raising costs for products and services. we have to regulate the cost of necessities in our society. that is something i never hear being discussed on any news program. i know the republicans will have a conniption fit and say it's communism and socialism and the bogeyman government controlling everything. but that's what you have to do in a civilized society so people don't wander the street homeless and so that our poverty rate does not increase year after year after year. we have to regulate the costs of basics. thank you. host: that's john, thank you. go ahead. guest: as of 2018, a minimum

wage worker would have to work 122 hours per week to afford an average two-bedroom apartment. so you are spot on, housing costs are a big issue. transportation costs are a huge issue. more and more workers live further away from their places of work because they can't afford to live near their places of work. you are correct. not only do we have to address better wages and working conditions and worker voice, but we also have to ensure adjust economic recovery that is inclusive. some people talk about it as a new social contract, that it's inclusive of affordable housing, affordable transportation, affordable care supports that are needed. all of these are critical components to how we ensure

workers can sustain themselves and their families and how we have more healthy communities across the country. host: there is an effort, as you probably well know, a desire by the biden administration to pass the american families plan as part of the effort including the child tax credit. is this something jorg yet -- your organization is advocating? guest: we do support many of our grantee partners who are advocates on the front lines. they are very much supporting and a part of conversations of the administration -- in the admin's ration around the american family plan. and the american jobs plan and these components. these are all interconnected in the lived experiences of workers. we cannot keep siloing these issues if we really want a better future we have to understand how care support is

directly connected to how people can access jobs, career pathways, training. all of these are connected issues. so we are involved in those conversations. but more so on the grantee partners. host: when talking about the idea of providing tax credits, senator marco rubio wrote a piece for the national review. he supported the idea of supporting those during the pandemic, particularly families but he wrote a couple of statements i'd like a response to preeti said it's not for families to have cash payments without ensuring at least one parent has a job or a path to getting one because to make the family reliant on those cash benefits. and to remove incentive -- it's not profamily to remove incentive to marry. it's not profamily to provide direct cash payments without ensuring -- and that it's not profamily to provide direct cash payments to single-parent

without ensuring that child-support or -- child-support orders are established. what do you think about that? guest: i think we have to make it as easy as possible for workers to access the support that they need. to be able to enter the workforce and to stay in the workforce. it is outrageous that 2.5 million women have left the workforce because we don't have a care infrastructure in place. when people leave, there's so much they are losing. not just the immediate wages but retirement security. we are looking at generations of workers who will agent a poverty if we are not care -- age into poverty if we are not careful now i'm creating as many supports as we can to make sure that workers can work with dignity and respect. this is the thing -- i think

these requirements that we are talking about, that he referenced, the question is are they barriers or access? my response is to create as many entry points for people who want to work to be able to enter the labor force and stay in the labor force. host: let's go to ronald, in bourbon, missouri. caller: i'm 77 years old. my grandson is under 30. the reason i'm calling is, that temporary jobs. he's had 20 to 30 temporary jobs. it's about time that he get a permanent job and the day before they fire him. we need to have a policy about this kind of craft. that -- this kind of crap. i don't know what anybody else thinks but it's wrong.

host: that's ronald coming missouri. guest: thank you for that. i think your point is well taken. there's too many workers who find themselves in part-time, temporary jobs that really don't have a future. don't have a career pathway. what it means is that these are involuntary part-time jobs. people can budget for their future. they don't have access to benefits. they don't have a real voice in their workplace. so you are right, we need to be pushing for more permanent employment where we can and ensure that employers understand why it's beneficial for them and their businesses to have stable employment. i want to point out that there

is a lot of discussion about job growth in the leisure and hospitality sector right now. despite all the talk of labor shortages per there is job growth. and it's been a major sector for most of the job growth. what's interesting, if you look at the leisure and hospitality sector is that wages have risen from when they plummeted during the recession and with the wage increases, hiring has been robust. i don't want to overplay that, there are still in enormous gaps. but it's important to know that in a survey that one of our grantee partners recently did, they are called one fair wage, they surveyed 2800 workers and found that more than half reported that they are thinking about leaving restaurants. more than three quarters of workers surveyed said they are leaving because of low wages and tips. and frankly a lack of hours at work.

and the most important reason for leaving, and 78% of the group said the factor that would make them stay in restaurants was full-time, stable, livable wages. if we want to see an economic comeback for workers, if that wages benefit and better working conditions include access to full-time employment. host: and i suppose there are employers who may be sympathetic but ultimately say that we have bottom lines to consider. how would you address them? guest: at the end of the day when i would say to them is, many of these industries struggle with the lack of ability and retain talent and skills. we have to find a sweet spot. ettore supports, better wages

and working conditions -- better supports, better wages and working conditions, and how to keep talent in their industries and places of business which are very important, particularly in the service economy. the health care and the home care industry, for example. the people we depend on to care for our loved ones are not able to feed themselves because they are paid such low wages. they have a lack of benefits. and the people who care for our loved ones, 30% are dependent on public assistae for food security. we are talking about a home care workforce with a growing meet -- growing need with an aging population and more children being born and we have not figured out how to create better working conditions, better access to training and career pathways and that negatively impacts families like mine.

we want care workers, health care workers who know our family members. you can apply that across many sectors. i think for my response, we have to think beyond the bottom line and think expansively about the stakeholders that make their business succeed. workers are key stakeholder that can no longer be ignored. host: nancy, in east peoria, illinois. caller: i'm 67 years old. i have retired but i am in the workforce. the place i work is with nursing home care. but we have been talking about are the young employees that are hired don't have any work ethic. they don't come to work. they expect you to pay them and get mad when you expect certain things out of them. and then when we have the $300

added into there, these people quit because they wanted that extra money. in our society, our kids don't have that work ethic because we keep telling them you deserve $15 an hour. you deserve this. but these are beginning jobs, where you have to learn how to get ahead. but it's not working. one of our employees yesterday decided that they don't want to come in. so chances are she will get fired. we can't excite to them work ethic. -- explained to them work ethic. guest: great, inc. for that comment -- great, thank you for that comment. what i would offer is that workers, a lot of young workers today have not had the experience of working in

workplaces where they are experiencing the quality jobs. that's a big part of the problem. good quality jobs help nurture the kind of work ethic that you're talking about. if people feel like their work is valued. it is their opinion and thoughts -- if their opinion and thoughts are respected. if they have a voice and they won't be retaliated against when speaking up about working conditions, those matter in terms of people being able to get jobs, stay in jobs, and have the experience of building the kind of work ethic you are talking about. what we have learned at the years is that it's essential to think about work as raising the floor and building a ladder. we have to improve the quality of jobs in the bottom of the ladder in addition to helping people move up.

when we do that, we interrupt the cycle that you're talking about. it's essential to raise floors through public policy and business practice, as well as build a ladder. there's a few reasons that i want to name. there really are adults supporting families in loan playing minimum-wage service jobs. disproportionately women of color are increasingly in the service economy. and workers are organizing and sectors like hospitality, these workers are fighting for higher wages and basic labor protections and paid sick days which means they are keeping people in jobs longer and train and support them. as long as these jobs are poorly paid, have volatile schedules and no paid sick days or leave, families cannot afford stable childcare.

then low-wage workers churn at the bottom of the ladder and struggle to take advantage of upscaling opportunities. and what you are experiencing, people not showing up to work, because they might be trying for another job. and in sectors like childcare and home care, there are very few career ladders that allow people to advance and stay in those professions. the well-being of our children and elder care for loved ones would be greatly enhanced by retaining skilled professionals in these jobs. we have to look at the is this model and how we are raising the floor and building the ladder. host: we did set up a line for those in the age of 30 and 50, that's where sean is, in maryland. go ahead. caller: good morning. i have two part question. he said the majority these jobs are going to the kids, but the kids can't get them. my son can get a job.

most of the jobs the kids have, which they're going to minority people and illegals. they are 50 process they are 50 process there 50 to 60 years old and the kids have nowhere to go. the kids are not being taught in schools about the things right i'm about to pull my child out. the jobs are there. they going to illegals and what we are calling minorities. guest: first, let's be clear. black indigenous people of color workers are disproportionately impacted by this economic recession and pandemic. black and latinx workers count for 36% of workers in front-line jobs. many of whom are lacking access to paid sick days and quality health insurance needed to care

for themselves and their families. black front-line workers are also more likely to report experiencing retaliation by managers for raising concerns about the coronavirus. black allaire -- black americans losing their lives to the pandemic and more than twice the rate of white people. they have to double down on their commitment with the racial reckoning by making worker safety and access to jobs a key part of social justice efforts. i say all of this because we have to understand their disproportionate impacts. it's important to make sure that we are in fact creating good, quality jobs. so your son, and others can join the workforce and stay in the workforce. the question of who is getting jobs and who is not getting jobs, whether they are immigrants or not, is not gonna

help us stay focused on what's really important. businesses have a really important role to play in creating access to these jobs and making sure these are good quality jobs. and offering opportunities for many workers across racial -ethnic lines and more. we have to be really careful not to begin to point fingers at other communities, but rather together say why is there so much economic inequality in our country? why is there so much income inequality in this country? why are companies, like amazon and many others profiting at exorbitant amounts but workers are still making nothing in comparison to what top managers and ceos are making of these corporations.

they can afford housing, transportation, they can't even access full-time jobs, let alone benefits. that's across-the-board. all workers of all stripes and colors need to stand together to really push for a different future. we know there are big businesses out there that want to do the right thing and policymakers who want to do the right thing and many of us in philanthropy want to do the right thing to really incentivize better choices for our country and for a better future. host: the organization is the ford foundation. thank you so much for your time today. guest: thank you. it's great to be here with you. host: for the next half hour or so we will take your calls and our open forum. if it's an issue of politics that concerns you and impacts you directly, give us a call. for democrats (202) 748-8000. for republicans (202) 748-8001. for independents (202) 748-8002.

we will take those calls when washington journal continues. ♪ >> today, a conversation about how the budget reconciliation process works. watch the brookings institution event live at 2:30 eastern on c-span. online at c-span.org, or listen on the free c-span radio app. ♪

>> washington journal continues. host: on this open forum, if you want to text us you can do so at (202) 748-8003. you can post on twitter and follow us on instagram. . for republicans (202) 748-8001. for independents (202) 748-8002. the hill reporting this morning that the democratic national committee announced on tuesday that it's launching a new campaign organizing program in nine states ahead of the midterm elections next year. the campaign pipeline project will place organizers on the ground in arizona, georgia, wisconsin, michigan, north carolina, nevada, pennsylvania, and new jersey in efforts to elect candidates up and down the ballot in targeted states. additionally, the committee has set a program goal of ensuring 80% of the organizers are diverse.

the dnc chairman says that our party must have young and diverse talent and the campaign pipeline project will be able to identify the young and diverse staff across the country to ensure the democrats are on the ground and on the ground early. fox news has a story, taking a look at how republicans, particularly in the senate, are looking at midterms through they write that ahead of the senate republican reelection arms, they are optimistic about chances of winning back the senate majority that they lost in the 2020 cycle . looking at the midterm elections in 2022, the national republican senatorial committee chair, rick scott in florida predicted that as long as we get our message out, raise our money and get good candidates we will have a hell of a '22. thoughts as that the senate is split 50-50 between the two major parties. democrats are looking to -- and

looking at the electoral map, republicans are playing plenty of defense to play -- to protect seats, including protecting five open seats were gop incumbents are retiring. but the nrc also sees strong opportunities in georgia, arizona, nevada, and new hampshire. that's fox news reporting that as far as the midterm elections are concerned. the midterms might be something you are looking at. other things could impact you as well. starting us off as diane, in barberton, ohio, on the democrats line. go ahead. caller: good morning for your i wanted to talk about the shooting. we need to open up -- institutions again. this is a big factor. my son is a co and the sheriff's department and he says that a lot of the individuals coming in

need mental help. there are also a lot of white supremacists, just like the gentleman said in pennsylvania, earlier today. white supremacists are rampant. and back toward trump got into office, the fbi was investigating them. after trump got into office, he ceased that information. they need to go back to that and get these people off the streets. they are the ones starting the mess. host: and gonzalez, louisiana, and, on the independent line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i like to actually comment on the last two segments per the first segment was about crime. what i want to say about that is , crime is directly connected to poverty. instead of spending millions to alleviate poverty they want to spend billions to fight crime.

there's a failed policy to begin with. for the second segment, sarita gupta is a well-informed and interesting person. she made quite a few viewpoints that were very valid. one caller called in and said exactly what the problem is. they won't regulate and they want to depress rages -- wages for the past four decades while profit margins have been overly growing. that's the problem. when workers have no respect, they don't have any job benefits , and when this happens, people lose faith in their system. host: let me go back to first question for you said crime is related to poverty, how did you

come to that conclusion? caller: if a man has a job, a car, house, is less likely to go out and commit a crime. these people commit crimes, mostly people of a lower education, lower wages, people who have a future that they -- people who do not believe they have the future will go out and commit a crime. a man with the future is less likely to commit a crime. everybody knows that. it's obvious. host: and let's hear from kristin, in woodbridge, connecticut, on the democrat line. caller: thank you for taking my call. i was hoping to have a suggestion to c-span after my comment, if you would be so kind. but my comment is on income inequality. currently, nine out of 10 economists say the federal reserve monetary theory of

policy has -- is leading to income inequality. since the covid epidemics already we have pumped money into wall street, the earnings have not changed. but the stock prices certainly have. i would love it if c-span would spend some time discussing modern monetary theory, basically the printing of money, the dilution of money, and the inflation that everyone is seeing. this is a direct result of federal reserve policy and coordination with the treasury department. janet yellen was also a fed chair. and i wanted to make a suggestion, and a question to you. if i wanted to watch washington

journal from the 1990's or something, cannot be accessed through the library or is it no longer accessible? host: i think you can access certain segments from going back in time. maybe not that much. that's a good question. i can find that out. particularly what are you looking for? caller: thank you. i'm interested in doing a sociological study on politics and the general political iq of americans. i think c-span is a great resource. you got comment -- you guys have been doing this common program, i personally got into a bag in the 90's. my suspicion is that the conversation has gotten so

dumbed down that i'm losing hope. but that's the reason. i would be curious to listen to a week of c-span in 1990, the late 80's. host: this is what our producer is telling us. if you go to our website, c-span.org, you can see whole programs in the sense that you can see them segment by segment. so you can watch a three-hour program at a shot, but you could put in the dates that we air the program and you can watch it segment by segment. probably easier for you to break it down, particularly with what you're looking for. i don't know if that helps you exactly but it is achievable relet me put it that way. -- achievable. let me put it that way. caller: thank you. do a story on the federal reserve please. bring in some experts.

host: we have plenty of federal reserve stories on our website, we did find that out too. we have arthur, in michigan, on the independent line. arthur? caller: i just had a thought about the workforce and the pandemic. when they do get back to work, what they should do is pay everyone across the table no matter what immigrant or nationality they are, $20 an hour. no matter what contract, make us all equal. thomas jefferson said we were all created equal. does not make sense to you? host: we can let others comment on that idea. angela, in maryland, on the democrats line. caller: hi pedro. you are speaking earlier about the tax credit for working

people that biden is starting in mid july and is going through mid-december. that was part of the corona money. i think that's going to be a big game changer in this country. and this is how progressives help working. they're going to give to 50 $250 per child -- 250 children dollars -- 250. that's $230 per child. this will allow people that have to work, single or married, to finally pay for child care. this is a complete name changer. i think people will have brand-new respect for democrat. and if they pass the reconciliation bill for the human part of the infrastructure, we can continue at -- continue that into the future. host: i'm sure some people would ask why should this be permanent rather than for six months? caller: why should it be permanent?

that's a good point if the tax credit -- point. it's a tax credit, aren't republicans for tax credits? it's not really controversial. but it's a tax credit for working people where's the last one mainly went to the top. if the tax credit. you work you get more of a tax credit. i don't see why either party should be against that. i do not have any children but i know people who do and this will be a game changer. and we talked about crime rates, people will be able to stay home with their children. the ones that have to go to work to get the childcare burden off their back by giving them that tax credit. host: that's angela, in maryland, talking about that tax credit. july 15 is when those who are eligible as the viewer knew quite a bit about, in july 15, people and parents will receive that tax credit.

right now it's a temporary measure going from july to december. as the viewer pointed out, the usa today is how you fight -- usa today has that if you want to read more about the tax credit going into effect. afghanistan also into the news, particularly the world new section. the taliban seizing a customs revenue location in kabul saying that the -- crossing north of the city -- with 134 border guards. they are asking that government troops -- since then insurgents have seized most of the border. nearly a thousand afghan troops sought refuge on sunday and monday. surrendering at the second principle crossing. that story also reflected.

100 afghan troops leading the country, soldiers fleeing to escape those insurgents until state forces withdraw. the wall street journal and the washington post has the latest on what's going on in afghanistan, particularly the pullout by the biden administration. richard, in louisville kentucky, on the republican line. caller: your previous guest, when you mentioned the comments that marco rubio, the senator from florida spoke about, the family unit and the money going out with certain things to do with the family, and you had asked those questions. and she didn't answer at all. that concerned me.

that she's not worried about raising children in the family unit, which is a big problem in this country. and then you had an african-american gentleman call in about how his son couldn't get a job for high school or college money because of illegal immigrants. and what she told him was, look, we need to work harder but let's not lose focus on the big picture. for him the big picture is his son. and doing what's best for him. let me say this. kamala harris and joe biden are letting all these illegal immigrants in here. but i will say this about the mexicans and guatemalans and those coming across the border. they are a wonderful family unit. they believe in god. they go to church. they work from morning until night. they are absolutely wonderful people.

and there lies the problem with the rest of the people sitting at home drawing government checks. these young men and young women are out there working their tails off for what they can get in are making it work. god bless everyone of them. host: so people in the country should be immigrating -- you hung up. let's go to lee, in michigan come on the democrats line. caller: c-span, could we have more republican voices on here? it's 3:1 democrat voice on this program. you hardly have --hello? host: you are on. caller: there's hardly any republican voices on here. all you do is reference the new york times and the washington post. host: i reference the post this morning. we have republican guests all the time on this program. but please, go ahead. caller: you do not. that's alive. that's a lie and you know it. host: it's not alive.

but goa -- a lie. let me ask, are you democrat? caller: know i had to call in on the democrat led to get on. host:'s and we do have to let you go because we divide the lines. if you have a political party and people spent a lot of time trying to pick the right line. call back and try to pick the right line. on, -- don, in new orleans, on the independent line. caller: i'm trying to juxtapose the question on the issue of supporting families and encouraging families. other people come in with their families and get attacked. but these political affiliations, they go to a certain point. when you talk about the independence of america, your ideology lines up with one side

or the other but you want independents. i just understand these clinical significance -- these political shenanigans. we are all americans. united states of america citizens, that should supersede these political ideologies. host: are you saying that some type of consensus cannot be achieved between the political ideologies? caller: a consensus can be achieved, but you have to understand who you are trying to achieve it for. is it for a personal vendetta? or for the american people. that's what i'm trying to understand with all of that who is calling in at all this other stuff. there's a difference between truth and facts. the issue of child tax credits

and supporting women who create our legacies and families that we hope to keep intact -- people talk about the greatest generation. it is called what? the baby boomers. they were supported by who? the federal government in housing, education, that is when you had the suburbs created. host: to stick to your point you are making there is a debate going on amongst the childcare tax credit about extending it past six months, would you be for or against that? caller: let's see how it works in the first six months before we talk about expanding. host: when you say let's see, exactly what would you look for? caller: i would say go down the road three or four months before it ends. let's get it started first. let's get it implemented correctly.

any type of inappropriate allocations, if it is going to the people who it is designed to help, which is the american people, we invest in each other. host: you made those points, we will go to jim on the republican line. are you there? jim has hung up. let's go to jonie. caller: this is what makes me upset today. did donald j. trump get a refund of $72.9 million that he claimed from the irs? he got that refund and cast a check. that made a red flag to the irs. they checked over the cap -- tax return and ask him for the money back.

he said i already cashed the check. that is what the fuss is that you will never see his tax returns. he was never going to let you see his tax returns even when he got in that office. people are working hard and that guy got in there and that is not right. no one could say he deserves any $2.9 million refund. host: i will point you to a story bloomberg did saying the details about the former president's tax returns were a revelation to a public but not to a small group of returnees -- attorneys. he has been in the middle of a issue over a tax return. the new york times obtained 20 years of data.

wherever there is a proposal of more than $2 million for individuals and $5 million for corporations proposed part of the rationale is to make sure tax laws are working the way congress intended. president trump, they initially send the audit in 2011. the agreement was reached in 2014. in expanding audit meant the irs submitted the refund for review in 2016 where it sat unresolved since then. this goes back to september of 2020. if you want to read more about what the caller was bringing up and provide a little context about that you are more than welcome to start with bloomberg if you wish. john, boston massachusetts, independence line -- independent line. caller: i tried to call yesterday because that was an interesting poll you had with

the experts. i had a question and i was hoping i could get an answer for them in some way through you to get the answers on it. believe me, he was no friend of mine. never appreciated nixon in office. it just did not come up. just off the map. i thought with those experts they could have some comments about his popularity, what it was at the time. i was a young man at the time. i had children, small children. i was interested in everything that was going on locally, especially. i was curious if you could get some information on what the thoughts were as far as popularity in the country. host: the advisors we showed

clips from, they take that program on sunday, individually they may have wrote on topics concerning richard nixon. if you are interested in terms of where he fell on this year's ranking, this is john. he is 31st this year. he started at 26, now he is at 31. we have asked people to score them on various categories when it comes to the president's high marks for economic management, rural authority, international relations. all of that available for our website. at least there is a snapshot. caller: that is interesting, i'm sorry i missed the poll on that

one. i pay a lot more attention to everything. i enjoy the show a lot. i'm trying to get my kids involved in listening to c-span a little bit more than all of the commercial stuff that is on. you really don't get too much information. i enjoy it. when i started watching you i was kind of nervous because i thought when i give my opinion and he throws some questions at me right away, when you get that done without time to think about that, i felt a little uncomfortable. you could throw any questions at me you want. host: thanks for the comment. i asked questions on both sides. it is interesting to see what people are thinking and what they come to the conclusion from.

i will leave you with this, if you want. you could find the program from sunday online if you have that capability. they may have brought that up during the context. you could go to the survey itself on our website. you can find the results there particularly on richard nixon. caller: good morning, this is rick calling you from idaho. i like to bring the light the foreign aid report, april 16, 2019. go to pages 20, 29, and 30, from 1946 until 2019, 71 years of your money -- i would like to

see foreign aid reduced to about $1 billion a year so that way we don't have to spend more money at the fuel pumps. the second thing i would like to look at is the refugee program. refugees coming into america received $3000 a month at your expense. i would like to see that program reduced. they are us $40 million. my message is simple, i don't care what color you are, all i care about is the color of money. if you do away with these programs, that will reduce the cost. host: that is rick in idaho. john in brooklyn, new york, democrats line. caller: i have a question for the republican caller. they call every day, i would

like to ask -- they are very nasty to the democratic callers. no one from c-span ever asked them if conservative media is fair. their media is not so fair. thank you. host: when it comes to aid offered by the federal government particularly in times of pandemics, one of the things ending today is the direct aid to restaurants. the small business administration announced the closure of the restaurant revitalization fund after exhausting $28.6 billion in the 1.9 trillion dollar rescue plan. the providing grants to restaurants representing about one third of the 270 8000 eligible applications received

by the small business administration since may 3, the fda received thousands of applications that were not eligible. the overwhelming demand was not able to -- they notified applicants on wednesday. from eddie in elizabethtown, democrats line. caller: we are having this on -- mcconnell trying to do away with unemployment. people have a hard time living on minimum wage. most of the restaurant workers are single mothers. a lot of people don't have a lot -- a higher education. also, if mcconnell and all of

the congressman would give up their check and maybe go after the president, maybe we could get people get -- back to work. host: charlottesville virginia -- charlottesville, virginia, this is mason. caller: i would like to tell you my experience at a fourth of july party. i sit in my chair beside a lady and her husband around 70-75. i was holding a sign that said support the police. she said i had my house broken into twice. the police that showed up was rude. i said i'm sorry to hear that. she said the second time he was rude again. i said you can call the police department and complain. i said you should call, she said it doesn't do any good.

i said i will do you favor. i have a depth -- direct phone number and i will call him for you and give him that name. i said what is his name? she said she would not talk to me anymore. defund the police type of person. caller: i hear everybody complaining about the immigration issue but i don't see why nobody complains about $250 billion we are spending at the border and apparently something is smarter than the $250 billion we are spending. are we ever going to hold this department accountable for what they are doing? if texas is so angry about the immigration coming in, how about the people resting the jobs.

host: the website story this morning has a story looking at alabama republican representative brooks acclaiming in a court filing that -- the alabama republican was given trump's endorsement for the u.s. senate after making the speech which helped incite the violence on the u.s. capitol. representative brooks attorneys responded by saying he only took part because the former president him there. brooks only gave the speech because white house asked him to it in his capacity as a u.s. congressman to speak. the white house request, -- of the white house had not requested, brooks would not have appeared at the rally. we are an open forum to see if this issue typically impacts you in the world of politics. if you're interested in talking

and the remaining minutes we have, you could give us a call on the line to do that. to show you one more article from the wall street journal this morning when it comes to issues of climate. enter janine -- a new tax -- in of an economy wide cap on carbon emissions, many democrats are investing in incentives for clean energy measures they pass the budget process. the one trillion bipartisan infrastructure agreement. lawmakers proposed spending 7.5 billion on infrastructure. nearly $50 billion in making infrastructure resilient to climate change. we are going to talk about the topic of wildfires, particularly taking place in the united states and all of the public

policy dealing with that issue. our guest is a research fellow for the property and environment research center pa we will talk about the annual report on wildfire season. you could ask questions about it as well. this will take place when "washington journal" continues. c-spanshop.org is c-span's products. they support the nonprofit operations and you still have time to word the contract -- congressional directory. go to c-spanshop.org. >> the secret service was founded in the aftermath of the assassination of abraham lincoln. it was not until the death of john f. kennedy that the presidential protection service

began to get closer attention from the american people. carol began reporting on the secret service for the washington post in 2012. in the prologue of her new book she writes that she started her career on the scandal in which agents brought prostitutes to their hotel rooms while making arrangements for president obama to visit columbia. we talk about her in-depth look in her new book subtitled the rise and fall of the secret service. >> listen at c-span.org/podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. >> washington journal continues. host: joining us is a research fellow for the property and environment research center. talking about wildfire policy. thanks for joining us. guest: thank you for inviting me. host: could you tell us about

your organization and who backs you financially? guest: we are a conservation and research organization. we look to the private sector to come up with environmental challenges. we accept no government funding and we have a lot of individuals that trust our work and research as well. host: this stems from a new report typically on the 63 million acres of the 193 million managed. what did you find out? guest: i have looked at wildfire issues for over 25 years now. what we are finding is we in society are delivering. we took a look at it.

things haven't changed a lot since i began this research 25 years ago. i had a hiatus in between where i was not focused just on forest. things got worse in a sense because we have not had active management and it otherwise would have burned. we have built up additional fuel. we know climate is changing, which is exacerbating that problem. we try to look at some of the barriers that have existed there. they have some active treatment. particularly in these areas. that is an extremely high risk area for individuals to be hope we could do something within those forests to increase it.

wildfires will always occur. could we decrease the risk for those individuals living there -- near the forest? host: there are areas with high and really high risks of wildfires, what makes that so? guest: we decrease the amount of carbon in our international forest. a lot of the harvest on our federal land were determined by the forest itself. but we need to do right now is come up with some better agreement so we could manage them to get there. it could be lost in the sense of health care as well. if we don't do any preventative health care, it is much more expensive and dire. if we do preventative care, we

are just healthier in general. we could manage them to get those outcomes. one of those outcomes might be providing the benefits of reduced fire risks. we often times seem less -- see less water quantity coming out of those forests. wildlife habitat, clean-air, all of these things. all things that we desire from our forest. we need to determine what it is we want from these forests. where are the most logical places to get that from and manage them in that way. forests are all very different. they have naturally deal -- built up fuel.

we have ground fires that are moving up into the canopy of the forest. does the title fire we historically saw. we are talking about logical -- some of us think about this, when you look at the images, it is a much more natural fire. if we have people living on the edge of that landscape you might want to think about doing some sort of maintenance and care in that land to reduce the fire risk for individuals on the edge of the forest band. host: if you want to ask questions about wildfire in forest management, (202) 748-8000 for the eastern and central time zone. (202) 748-8001 for the mountain and pacific time zone. it was president biden who was speaking to governors last week.

one of the topics was combating wildfires. i want to play a little bit about what he said and get your response to it. president biden: we are identify new tools the national oceanic administration has satellite technology when new fires show up when they are still small. the department of energy has eight sensor rate for the capability that could detect the lightning strikes that might set off a blaze. i want to use those tools to identify the low places. share that information so they

can respond immediately before fires spread out of control. host: the idea of technology being able to relieve wildfires, what are your thoughts on this? caller: the interface are starting. we could put them up quickly to maintain a low fire risk area. in some of these remote places we want to allow those fires to burn. part of the reason we got to the place we are now is we suppressed the fire. humans have lit fire for thousands of years. one of the reason we have the grave risk we do now is we want to re-create our forest so that we could allow that to come back in a natural way.

it just gets out of control. this is not really the outcome we are looking for. we want to do some maintenance and care for our landscapes to be sure that when we have that fire we could control that fire, with our individuals living there. maybe we want to allow that fire to burn so we have more historic condition of that particular forest. host: how much of the work is done on forest management versus what you have to do on fighting fires? caller: you probably heard the term the forest service. the forest service has focused more on wildfire in the latest decade then it has on maintaining the forest. we could see the reason for that. we have these losses and they are just reacting to these fires and putting them out as quickly as possible. double the amount of individuals in the forest.

we have cut in half the people that are doing management work. we have cut the entire agency employment by about one third. the resources and the staffing both financially and employee wise available to get out and do some management to maintain and care for our forests is limited for sure. we need to rely on partners. to help us determine what we are looking for. using those revenues for the care. we want to leave it more pristine and at the same time reduce the risk of fire there. host: that public-private partnership, i want to bring in

harold from california. you're on with our guest. caller: i thought about this for quite a while. they go there in shifts and stuff. rotate eight, no more sleep and wait. if we rotate eight hours, we could have people doing things all the time and ready to fight fires. we could be putting more people to work. i just think the benefits might be a little bit more payout because you have more time aggressively. i just feel we need to start looking forward in life and making things work. not just sit around. you have lights with generators. i know firefighters have to get their sleep.

kind of an idea i wanted to throw out there. i know they don't like that. host: thank you, sir. guest: i think it is great. could we get more people out there for longer hours and get some of the stuff done? potentially we could. one of the big problems is how we fund this stuff? the agency doesn't have the budget necessary to fund all of this work. if they did, would they put into the right place? we want to do is partner with these local communities and have all sorts of groups doing some cool things to figure out how we will do management in this region. these people at the local level know exactly what it is they are looking for from their forest. they know what the benefits and the risks are.

we actually talk about a number of examples. here are some of the hurdles we have to fight through in order to make the management work. getting out there and doing more of this, the policy barriers in addition to the funding and the staffing. we could get some partnerships. that is one way we could make this happen. let me give you one example of the northern arizona fund. it is a collaborative group that agreed, one of the partnership groups was a water utility. they were concerned that if a fire came and it would ruin the water supply. they moved the project forward.

the utility and wildlife joined in. scottsdale jointed, phoenix joined in, even coca-cola joined in. more people are on the ground doing some of this work. that type of project and understanding what the benefits are give people to help pave the way. sustainable, long-term care to make sure we have healthy forests for the future. host: those public-private partnerships in the private industry, are they only interested because it is directly involved in forest or wildlife issues directly after or does it come with a bigger group of people and companies? guest: great question, we have some foundations that are interested in enhancing the

resilience of our forest. it can be seen as putting money up front. in part because it mitigates some of the losses they may have. they are trying to protect their water supply. there also helping us protect our forest. we also see people that are impacted at the wider scale. seeing some of these projects moving forward. it is being created in the tahoe national forest. the world resources institute would try to do something similar to what the arizona is doing. they didn't have the money coming up front. they created what they called the resilience respond. they had investors put money up front. they had private investors put money up front to help them get this project started to actually

use some of this maintenance and care. the water utility party is paid back over time. a creative, innovative approach also relies on the private sector. we really pay attention to that. we could motivate that investment and infrastructure. they have all of material trying to help the forest. there is not the infrastructure in the capacity to add onto that project in that area. motivating that investment will help us get the project done. host: peter in new hampshire, good morning. you are next up. caller: i'm wondering if she

could comment on the suggestion that the civilian conservation corps, it be reestablished. the benefits beyond the public lands and forest. such as reduction of incarcerations for low-level crimes. where encampments would be established in the wilderness areas. where health and education opportunities would be provided. the money would be held by the treasury until a three-year contract had been completed. it will provide capital acquisition aura could provide support in the interim.

as well as climate litigations. host: thank you. guest: my concern with that idea is wonderful opportunity to take people who are incarcerated and give them some productive activities to do and provide them with education, help them with society. where is that money coming from and who gets to decide how that money is being spent? we are think about the conservation-type programs. that makes it as local as possible. when they say we have money to fight fires, who decides where that money get spent? we see some of the incentives. if we could bring it down to the ground, we could have a little bit more local control. those district managers, they

are the ones that happen on the ground. they could meet the needs of the forest and try to remove the political influence of it and move a little bit more towards the science and the outcomes that we are looking for. when there was a wildfire, you got a blank check. the incentive was just put more resources into fighting fire. at the same time, what we really want is we really want this preventative measure. we want to take care of the forest year after year. there is no money there to do that. they are caring for our forest and all of this money going

through the capacity. we could really move that to help them -- host: could we employ people to cut standing debt and help make the fires that start fight a bow -- i live in arkansas and it has hit us hard. guest: there is also its opportunities. i live in montana. there are areas within the national forest where we could cut that firewood. it all depends on the planning and management process. one of the things we haven't really got to is we have this environmental analysis process we have to go through before the agency could do anything. they have to go through the national environmental policy act and environmental planning. in some areas it is easy for the

forest to get through and other areas where it is difficult. with forest restoration it is difficult and more costly than it is for other forest projects. we need to get these projects done. we need to lower those hurdles. we talk about some of the different policies that help us work through and streamline the analysis process. we want to make sure we are planning with the environment in mind and understand what the impact might be. we also need to weigh the risks that exist there. do we want to have a little bit less of that environmental analysis to the t and allow some

of this management to take place and we don't lose these? host: has there been a sense of the acceptance of the ideas of a public-private partnership with the white house or those on capitol hill? guest: during numerous groups working with our agencies right now. most of those willing to collaborate and put some money up front have already gone through the environmental analysis project -- process. it could be extremely costly and take a long period of time to get through it. there's always the risk and you won't continue the project. most projects litigated actually do continue at some point. it could be years, even decades down the road. that started back in 2005. the drainage caught on fire. it is a high risk of fire right now.

we still haven't harvested. it has continual litigation, replanning and at the end of the day, it has not changed very much. could do some restoration of the risk of catastrophic fire. trying to lower the tendency of that fire. we will see how long it takes to actually get into that forest to do something. that would put a lot of us here in bozeman at a greater risk of the smoke and not having freshwater. host: we will hear from bart in maryland, go ahead. caller: you probably already answered this since i have been waiting. what steps do they take to mitigate the damage of wildlife

in these controlled burn areas. that is always fascinating to determine we will use this percentage, there's nothing we can do about it or do they actually send people and try and relocate or push out wildlife to a certain area? guest: that is a great question. i will give you my intuitive answer. most of our prescribed burns are smaller than a catastrophic fire and they move at a much slower pace. the wildlife has the opportunity to move out of the way. certainly some wildlife may get caught in that. part of the reason to do the prescribed burning is to re-create some of that habitat. i was just in paradise valley in montana a few weeks ago. a clear cut that has been done

to enhance the wildlife habitat. it was a year ago when they did these. this was not like a square. i grew up in washington state. it was actually very natural. it allowed the wildlife to get cover. the forest i was growing in the open areas was creating habitat and it was clear as day. the new wildlife habitat that had been created but at the same time leaving that coverage for additional wildlife. might you lose some habitat in the process? yes. you reduce that risk to wildlife from having a catastrophic wildfire. host: the president announced $15 hourly pay for firefighters,

also hired more firefighters and how much they are supported by the federal government. guest: coming from the private sector perspective, we are not paying firefighters enough. let the markets work. the government jobs are somebody decides what that hourly rate might be. if there is not enough firefighters, they will automatically increase that wage. you have to figure out how you could make that work. that is the cool thing about the market. what are we looking for? how much are we willing to pay? how much will it cost to do it? what are there other opportunities?

considering the dollar value -- there is a value of the benefit. competing with the private sector, yes. it makes more sense to actually partner with the private sector, who has figured out a little bit better and allows those places to coincide in that way. host: in michigan, brian is next. caller: back in the 1970's i believe we led the world in payload as far as the bigger planes were converted to scoop up the water and drop it. i don't think we lead the world in that. i think russia does. in michigan we had a so-called controlled burn that obviously got out of control. we lost 20,000 acres. michigan has more water than anyone in the world.

i'm watching this small ass helicopter -- she's hardly getting any water. he's running back and forth with one helicopter. the airport here, we are one of the few places in the world that actually does framework infrastructure for planes. we are well equipped to do anything like that here. the second part is tapping off the colorado river. why are we d salivating the water out of the ocean? the aircraft carrier is probably going to be decommissioned fairly soon. she has been a great workhorse. you could promote that nuclear power to run all of your pumps, quit tapping off all of that colorado river so you would have

more water out west. guest: you're reaching into an area that i don't have a lot of knowledge. especially with aviation. there are certainly a lot of new technologies coming out. i don't know who the leaders in producing that. it is a key component. my focus has been on what could we do to prevent that fire and to allow for some of those prescribed burns would sometimes get out of control. most of the time you have to get in there and do some removal of the materials in that forest. sorry i can't answer your question better in that sense. be very aware there is risk there for sure. we want to have the facilities to take care of anything that might get out of control. host: on the front page of the

new york times there is a story that hawaii is having an issue with wildfires saying some of the wettest parts of the planet. heavy rains encourage this and try hot summers make them highly flammable. guest: i can't speak. everybody could say this is awesome. it does create the tall grasses. that is definitely an issue. we need to be responsive to that and be aware of that. the more likely we will have the intense burn.

you think about fire in general if you ever played with fire, the drier the fuels are, the more likely they will have heat. here in montana, it takes that oxygen. all of those things will create a more intense fire. we have lots of modeling that exists out there. here are some of the key risks we want to look at. we want to pay attention to different areas. the moisture, we will have a higher risk there. there is some great modeling that exists. host: are the current wildfires more of an issue with climate change or management? guest: i believe it is an issue

of management. it is not all in agreement. i'm sure people will argue with me on that. they're are about 53% of the wildfire issues on their land on the result of the fuel buildup. it was 13 or 23%. it was considerably less. it is clear however, these things are working together. you get more heat in there as well. you will have a likelihood of fire. host: john is in illinois, good morning. caller: it is just an old memory but back in the late 1950's, a friend of mine and i left mexico, we spent the winter there.

we left about 6:00 in the evening. we drove all night. all night they were burning off the hills. you could see in that darkness all over the place. every now and then you would run into a fire engine. all night long you had to close the windows because of the smoke. all night long, they were burning the oil off. anyway they were cleaning their woods out. you. guest: a great prescribed burns are super important. you need to remove enough fuel so it doesn't get out of control. we have a lot of problems because people are afraid of the risk. we have the clean air act that restricts a lot of doing

prescribed burns. they are included as part of the clean-air restrictions. it is something we didn't have control over. how could we get more prescribed burns done so that we could reduce the fuels in the forest and increase resiliency? host: we have a viewer who takes issue with the idea of a private-sector approach saying the private sector will keep pay low for profits. they never hire enough people in the firefighters -- it has proven deadly in the pass. guest: we are in dire straits. the government is not doing a good job. i don't want to romanticize the private or government sector. we have to get to the point we want to go.

without private-sector support we will not get there. we don't have the finances are the staffing available at the agency level or within the government level. the amount of money that needs to be spent is not sustainable if we don't allow some of these products to be -- to add value. that will help us innovate. the private sector will produce the investment in the products when we talk about carbon credits. clean water as i talked about with the salt river project. it was a utility, it was coca-cola. they were pulling money together to get this stuff done and to solve some of these problems. there are some really interesting groups that are coming together right now. these are private-sector companies that are working with

insurance companies to help protect homes from wildfires. all they do is go to these homes that are at high risk and they help ensure that this home will not burn down. the insurance company is not charging a higher premium to the homeowner because of the savings they get. this type of private sector involvement could really help us not only reduce wildfires, save our homes, provide additional benefits. this what we are looking for as it is helping us get to these -- where we want. host: we talk about federal resources, what about state resources? to take care of the management side but the firefighters are? guest: cal water is the second largest firefighting service e. the other states are much smaller than that. the resources i have been talking about, the wildfire

defense systems. it is a third or one fourth behind calfire. that's how big they are in the private sector. states are super important. if we get to the state level we have that more vocal control and vocal understanding to help us get things done and be more specific. at the federal level it is harder for people to understand what are the exact issues we are looking for if you are not there on the ground? we need to allow that flexibility so we could maintain and care for our forest. host: we saw president biden talking earlier. as far as the biden administration is anything changing with the regulation and mandates with control burns and impacts? guest: they have not at this point change those regulations. we have a number of recommendations to make some of those changes. they are certainly talking about trying to get more done.

they have increased the budget slightly but not nearly enough to get that much done. for treatment they are simply not for that. if we work with some of these collaborative groups and get two areas we really need, we could get this stuff done. host: one of the things you advocate for in the report is a bond to tackle these. could you elaborate on that? guest: the forced resilience bond -- forest resilience bond has the money to get these projects off the ground. there is not enough funding or financing to actually do something. often times there's not enough value for to pay for the actual restoration. it is all part of the service and stuff we are looking for in the report.

it is more about what the forest looks like at the end of the day. insurance companies been a part of this to put money up front to get stuff done in the tahoe national forest, they had $4 million put up front that was going to treat 15,000 acres. we have an additional 6 million coming later to help pay for some of these projects and get them done over time. those bonds are then repaid by the beneficiary. they are repaid by the city or the state of california. you could think of coca-cola or whoever it is on the other project. we will pay for these benefits but we might not have that much money to put up front. therefore we have the forest resilience bond, a great way to go. there are some hurdles that

these groups are trying to get over. part of it is the way the contracts are created and how they could share with other groups. they are not allowed to obligate funds beyond their appropriation. within a four year appropriation. if we could have that partnership where the private sector is understanding the forest service is a part of that deal in the long run, we would get more investment from the private sector. the forest service has had such short contact and goes to the environmental analysis and also has the ability after a year or two to say we are not going to do that anymore. by 1990 we were harvesting 2 billion. we will not harvest anymore. that leaves that private investment. we want to make sure we provide

them some security. we also want to provide security on the materials being removed is what we want removed. these are the outcomes we are looking for. how do we get there? we have a pretty good idea how to get there once we know what it is what we are looking for. let's get the agreement on what we are looking for. host: rudolph in chicago, hello. caller: good morning. there are approaches coming from the pacific ocean so when the fires get extended they could dissipate the fire down the line. the cook county forest preserve has an extensive forest reserve system. it incorporates with the forestry that exists. if there is a lack of funding,

between gates and the guy from amazon they should initially have the program for this. you have citizens encroaching upon the forest reserves as people move into those areas. to become susceptible to what has taken place for thousands of years. if they put many lakes would dissipate. guest: i don't know much about putting lakes in. there's no question people are moving into the interface and becoming more at risk. one of the reasons these qualified insurance resource companies are arising is to help protect those individuals. and what takes that cost off of us as a taxpayer. that is all coming at the

taxpayers expense. here is a new approach from the private sector saying we have a problem here we will help try to solve these problems. curiously enough the premiums are not going up for those homeowners again because of the huge losses insurance and are dealing with. host: if you are makes the point that mortgage companies should not be insuring for homes in fire zones. they are on their own. guest: in my mind if the insurance company wants to ensure somebody as long as they are allowed to charge the premiums necessary, these are private lands. they are not moving on to the federal forest land. at this point in time the taxpayer is paying part of that burden.

when we have the private sector helping cover that and take care of that issue, that is a decision something else could make. i wouldn't want to live at the edge of the forest right now. the risk is way too high for me. if you -- if people want to make that choice, i don't feel bad. host: california, this is denise. caller: i would like to finish my comment. why are we reporting all of the arsonist fires that have been started. like the paradise fire and all of the other huge fires, where was everybody evacuated to? did they just disappear? where are those people? it seems like this year you're trying to move us on rural areas.

this year everybody better lookout. it will try to burn us out of california again. guest: there has been a lot of arson that started some of these fires. i have seen that in the news. i don't know the answer to that. i really don't know the answer to where people have been evacuated to. again in my mind, we need to care for the forest. so we could reduce that fire and put it into some realm where it is controllable. the only way to do that is to look at the policy changes we have recommended and to allow the private sector to come in and help fund some of that.

>> forest care and maintenance is something we need to do again and again, it's not just one time and we need to make sure we have sustainable funding or that which could come from the private sector if we get the proper investment in there to make sure we can add value to some of the things we are looking for. host: she is a research fellow for the opera he and environment research center. thanks for your time today. guest: thank you so much. host: that's the end of our program and right now, we will take you to a form hosted by the wilson center and a discussion on the israeli-palestinian conflict. you can watch it on www.c-span.org and listen on the radio app. we take you to that event now. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> glad to welcome president and ceo of the wilson center to introduce our panel this morning. we also welcome acting assistant secretary joey hood to give