wherever you get your podcasts. ♪ >> our first guest of the morning is serena -- sarita gupta. thank you for joining us. be here. host: talk about the ford foundation and the futures of worker program, tell us what that is. guest: the ford foundation is a large social justice philanthropy. its mission is to tackle inequality in all of its forms. the future of workers program is aimed at looking at how we can ensure and support advocates on the frontline and business leaders eager to use the position -- their position to drive change. to reimagine work that empowers workers and compels players to take appropriate responsibility for worker conditions and living

standards and urge lawmakers to -- any gaps. host: i suppose you have been looking at the impacts of the pandemic, particularly on workers. what's the impression that your organization is getting about where workers are? guest: let me say, first of all, it's clear to us that the pandemic has revealed really important issues for working people. there is a need for a care infrastructure in our country and the need to address wages and better working conditions and the quality of jobs available for workers to really address health and safety issues. those are some of the many issues. and really the importance of workers being part of creating a solution to how we achieve a just economic recovery.

host: from the worker's perspective, what can they do? how much power do they have? guest: that's a great question. it's important to know that workers are really in a hard situation. over the pandemic, this has definitely shown us the incredible inequalities that exist for workers, filling jobs in america has made it clear that workers are saying for themselves that they don't want to accept just any job. no matter how low the wages or lack of benefits, it's important that they are evaluating and assessing what types of jobs will allow them to sustain themselves and their families. the reality is, workers have been experiencing stagnant wages, a lack of access to

benefits and a real lack of voice. that was all before the pandemic. now what we are seeing is too many workers are really without the kinds of protections they need. that's why our program is focused on how we can ensure that all workers, regardless of their pacification have equal rights to labor protection and social protection and that we are shaping the policies and economics that are affecting their lives. host: not all workers were impacted the same during the pandemic. so what is the snapshot of the worker you are talking about. what is the common denominator? guest: one common denominator is that many of the workers we are talking about are essential workers. some are frontline workers. but they are essential workers which means they have been in a low-wage job and they have really lacked access to basic social protections or benefit

and they are often risking their own lives in order to make sure that you and i have the groceries we need. that we have a coffee we want in the morning or whatever the case. the food at our table area what we have seen over the last few months is that without really ensuring that workers have the kind of care infrastructure needed and access to health and safety protections that are needed, and better wages and access to benefits, we are really putting too many workers and their families in precarious living situations. host: our guest is with us until 8:45, talking about the future workers for it here's how you can call us. if you are under the age of 30 call us at (202) 748-8000.

if you're between ages of 30 and 50 call us at (202) 748-8001. if you are over 50, call (202) 748-8002. does age factor into the issues? particularly those most affected? guest: age is an issue. but what's interesting is that this pandemic has availed two things. i will talk about parents because i think that's where age becomes important. every person, there is point in their lives will need care. and care is essential for a just economic recovery. the reason this matters in terms of ages because on the first point about every person experiencing and needing care, america is the only advanced economy with the universal infrastructure in place to -- without an infrastructure to support families. care is unaffordable for too many people. think about it, 70% of the u.s.

workforce earns less than $50,000 per year while annual childcare costs start at $10,000 per year and nursing homes at $80,000 per year. the math doesn't add up. this impacts the quality of care children, older adults, and people with disabilities can access. the reason this is important for us to understand why care is essential is because the height of the pandemic saw plain as day of the ramifications of how a flimsy care infrastructure was felt by workers. disproportionately for women of color. with schools and days cares -- daycare's close, millions of families were left with impossible work-life demands. we have gotten nearly 2.5 million women, largely women of color, forced to drop out of the workforce as a result. on top of that, just as personal

health has been at risk through the pandemic, our economic well-being is in jeopardy. with the economy in turmoil, it's crucial that we keep care at the forefront of the plans. frankly, over the next five years, the bureau of labor statistics estimates that more than half of the work force will be caring for an aging adult. age matters in the sense of people like me, in the sandwich generation who has childcare needs and eldercare needs are being squeezed in this immense way. we can make different choices to make sure that we have the kind of care infrastructure we need. host: in your mind and your organization's mind, do those choices fall on federal government to resolve? guest: i think government has to do its part to make change at scale. but i do think there are other stakeholders involved.

at the ford foundation we are partnering with a powerhouse set of grantmakers together to make and create what we are calling the care for all with respect and equity fund. this is a $15 million multiyear investment to support a broad-based movement for care that includes paid leave, childcare and early education, long-term support for older adults and people with disabilities and high jobs for all care workers. we think philanthropy has a role to play. we think businesses several to play. we think government, definitely, has a big role to play to make change at the that need. host: you can call our guest, you can also text and post online. on the front page of one of the papers, out of kentucky, it talks about employers offering particularly to workers to come

back post-pandemic. i want to show you the headline. what do you think as far as employers, is their opportunity out there for workers who are maybe not in an ideal situation now to improve their situation? guest: let me say, workers are not accepting business as usual. there's no going back to normal after this world altering traumatic pandemic. after the instant -- after the instability, widespread disregard for workers'health and their expectation, this has led to a major reassessment by what will her -- for what workers are willing to accept on the job. that's important to keep in mind. employers play a big role, they are -- it's important that employers create good quality jobs and are including workers in the protocols to return to

work. those are really important types of data. that shifts how workers think about their job and what types of job they are willing to take. it's really important. right now, as we think about what's happening and the fact that employers are having a hard time finding workers to take jobs, it should hopefully incentivize businesses to do better for workers. to make sure that there is health and safety protections in place and better wages and working conditions. this is important, and ultimately, we believe it will create a huge difference for business. ultimately, this is about proximity. proximity must be a bedrock approach to addressing the multiple crises of the pandemic, the economic crisis and racial reckoning.

so it is about partnering, not dictating to workforces. the pandemic has made this clearer than ever. we actually saw study recently that has been very influential in our thinking at the ford foundation. nursing homes with greater worker voice and engagement faced 30% fewer deaths due to covid. people first management and worker voices saved lives. host: let's hear from marie, in lancaster, pennsylvania, on the line for those over 50. thank you for calling. you are on with our guest. go ahead. caller: good morning. i'm very happy you took my call. today, employers do not take care of their workers. for example, i recall even in

the government where they would have workers, everybody had some form of insurance to provide health care. if no longer like that -- it is no longer like that. they ask that an employer who is getting close to minimum wage has to contribute to their own plan. and when you have an extensive health care -- inexpensive health care, you cannot take care of your family. and the government has been infiltrated by profit minded outsourcing people. and when they come, they destroy the cycles that help people together. which is to have some form of insurance as part of their needs

. host: thank you. we will let our guest respond. guest: thank you for those points. i want to share, in addition to health insurance that you referenced, in april, a poll by one of our grantee partners, just capital, found that nearly 30% of employees say they still did not feel safe at work. that was about a year into the pandemic. a quarter said that employees did not have a voice to developing their employers covid safety and health protocols through this is not only a humanitarian problem, it's bad for business. it's bad for public health. the pandemic reminded us that all workers, especially those in the lower paying front-line roles have unique insight and expertise into customers and business models. when you activate workers as

partners, you can build safer workplaces, more engaged and high-performance cultures and orders billion operations. there are things that businesses can take to address health care, but also to address worker health and safety. you could offer paid sick days to all workers, whether they are full-time, part-time, or contractors. this must also include days offer vaccine recovery, and essential protections should be guaranteed to all workers including ppe and social distancing and notifying employees of the voter and contact tracing. the biggest breakdowns are happening with vendors and supply chains. all of this is to say that, to marie's point, we have to take a human resource approach. of people first approach.

to how to bring about the echo nominee -- the economic recovery want is to specifically address the health and safety for workers. that's one of the number one issues workers are grappling with. host: barbara, in michigan, on the line for over 50. caller: everything sounds great except for there's one problem. without unions, these things don't happen. i have been working since i was 16 years old and there's no one job i've ever had, whether it was in a store, a restaurant, logging company, in a factory, not one job have i ever had or anyone else i know that was ever unionized. and if they say they're going to go union, the company's pullout. so you get no retirement, no pay leave, no maternity leave. you get nothing. if so how is any of this can

happen if you can't unionize question why could you answer for me? guest: sure. thank you for that point. it's a really important point that you're making. when i talk about worker voice, part of what i'm talking about is the ability to collectively bargain. you are absolutely right, workers who are not in unions are at a clear disadvantage when it comes to having access to the kinds of benefits that you talked about. the programs and the supports you referenced. it is important to keep in mind that over the last four decades, we have seen an absolute decimation of worker voice and attacks on collective bargaining rights. we believe at the ford foundation networkers having a voice in as many different forms, including through a union is really essential. there's lots of work happening

now as we partner with many worker advocates and unions who are pushing for labor law reform . who are pushing for policies that actually ensure broader labor protections and access and the ability to form unions for water swaths -- broader swaths of workers. and let me say, we are in a really important choice point as a nation. we could decide to bring in and usher in another generation of labor policies and labor laws that exclude broad swaths of workers because we don't value their work. or, we could make a choice to create more inclusive economic policies. that's what we are advocating for. that's what we are supporting at the ford foundation and what we are seeing our advocates, the great work they are doing,

including the right to form unions and collectively bargain. host: a viewer off of twitter is addressing the workers that you were talking about. everyone has a replacement waiting for them, there are few that are essential workers and those are transient. how would you respond to that? guest: it's important to keep in mind, there are workers that are seeking jobs. there are jobs that need workers. this goes back to the -- the idea that workers are transient, there's conversations, especially in the gig economy where we talk about flexibility. and you can't have flexibility and economic security. i think we have to actually unravel that narrative. it is simply not true. there are workers who want to work. they want respect, dignity,

safety on the job, that her wages and better working conditions -- better wages and better working conditions for there's no excuse. there's a level of income inequality that we see in this country where the top zero point 1% making more money than they know what to do with and the bottom 90% suffering and struggling to make ends meet. in this moment, we need to rethink, better quality jobs. how can we be sure that workers can access the kind of care support they need and flexibility they need to have the kind of economic security that we know is better for our economy. and it's better for business overall. adjust economic recovery is depending on these factors, including increasing

vaccination, work support, and increasingly thriving economies and communities. it's important that we don't play into a narrative that there's just a lot of workers and the workers can be replaced. workers are showing us and telling us that they are not taking jobs that are not giving them the support they need. that's exactly the direction we are going on. it's important for businesses and also policymakers to really understand and adopt and embrace what's happening. just to say the fact that we have policymakers who are pulling already allocated federal stimulus funds in the form of pandemic unemployment benefits out of the economy will only slow down recovery. and make things worse for workers. so going back to request an, pedro, there are multiple stakeholders who have to work together to create a better future for workers.

host: this is sarita gupta of the ford foundation. john, from corpus christi, texas, your next step. caller: we have to regulate the cost of basic necessities like housing, groceries, utilities, gasoline, basic necessities that are necessary for survival. we don't regulate the cost of basic necessities it doesn't matter how high you raise the minimum wage. the corporate interest will immediately wipe it out by raising costs for products and services. we have to regulate the cost of necessities in our society. that is something i never hear being discussed on any news program. i know the republicans will have a conniption fit and say it's communism and socialism and the bogeyman government controlling everything. but that's what you have to do in a civilized society so people don't wander the street homeless and so that our poverty rate does not increase year after

year after year. we have to regulate the costs of basics. thank you. host: that's john, thank you. go ahead. guest: as of 2018, a minimum wage worker would have to work 122 hours per week to afford an average two-bedroom apartment. so you are spot on, housing costs are a big issue. transportation costs are a huge issue. more and more workers live further away from their places of work because they can't afford to live near their places of work. you are correct. not only do we have to address better wages and working conditions and worker voice, but we also have to ensure adjust economic recovery that is inclusive. some people talk about it as a new social contract, that it's inclusive of affordable housing,

affordable transportation, affordable care supports that are needed. all of these are critical components to how we ensure workers can sustain themselves and their families and how we have more healthy communities across the country. host: there is an effort, as you probably well know, a desire by the biden administration to pass the american families plan as part of the effort including the child tax credit. is this something jorg yet -- your organization is advocating? guest: we do support many of our grantee partners who are advocates on the front lines. they are very much supporting and a part of conversations of the administration -- in the admin's ration around the american family plan. and the american jobs plan and these components. these are all interconnected in

the lived experiences of workers. we cannot keep siloing these issues if we really want a better future we have to understand how care support is directly connected to how people can access jobs, career pathways, training. all of these are connected issues. so we are involved in those conversations. but more so on the grantee partners. host: when talking about the idea of providing tax credits, senator marco rubio wrote a piece for the national review. he supported the idea of supporting those during the pandemic, particularly families but he wrote a couple of statements i'd like a response to preeti said it's not for families to have cash payments without ensuring at least one parent has a job or a path to getting one because to make the family reliant on those cash benefits. and to remove incentive -- it's

not profamily to remove incentive to marry. it's not profamily to provide direct cash payments without ensuring -- and that it's not profamily to provide direct cash payments to single-parent without ensuring that child-support or -- child-support orders are established. what do you think about that? guest: i think we have to make it as easy as possible for workers to access the support that they need. to be able to enter the workforce and to stay in the workforce. it is outrageous that 2.5 million women have left the workforce because we don't have a care infrastructure in place. when people leave, there's so much they are losing. not just the immediate wages but retirement security. we are looking at generations of workers who will agent a poverty if we are not care -- age into

poverty if we are not careful now i'm creating as many supports as we can to make sure that workers can work with dignity and respect. this is the thing -- i think these requirements that we are talking about, that he referenced, the question is are they barriers or access? my response is to create as many entry points for people who want to work to be able to enter the labor force and stay in the labor force. host: let's go to ronald, in bourbon, missouri. caller: i'm 77 years old. my grandson is under 30. the reason i'm calling is, that temporary jobs. he's had 20 to 30 temporary jobs. it's about time that he get a permanent job and the day before

they fire him. we need to have a policy about this kind of craft. that -- this kind of crap. i don't know what anybody else thinks but it's wrong. host: that's ronald coming missouri. guest: thank you for that. i think your point is well taken. there's too many workers who find themselves in part-time, temporary jobs that really don't have a future. don't have a career pathway. what it means is that these are involuntary part-time jobs. people can budget for their future. they don't have access to benefits. they don't have a real voice in their workplace. so you are right, we need to be pushing for more permanent employment where we can and

ensure that employers understand why it's beneficial for them and their businesses to have stable employment. i want to point out that there is a lot of discussion about job growth in the leisure and hospitality sector right now. despite all the talk of labor shortages per there is job growth. and it's been a major sector for most of the job growth. what's interesting, if you look at the leisure and hospitality sector is that wages have risen from when they plummeted during the recession and with the wage increases, hiring has been robust. i don't want to overplay that, there are still in enormous gaps. but it's important to know that in a survey that one of our grantee partners recently did, they are called one fair wage, they surveyed 2800 workers and found that more than half reported that they are thinking about leaving restaurants.

more than three quarters of workers surveyed said they are leaving because of low wages and tips. and frankly a lack of hours at work. and the most important reason for leaving, and 78% of the group said the factor that would make them stay in restaurants was full-time, stable, livable wages. if we want to see an economic comeback for workers, if that wages benefit and better working conditions include access to full-time employment. host: and i suppose there are employers who may be sympathetic but ultimately say that we have bottom lines to consider. how would you address them? guest: at the end of the day when i would say to them is, many of these industries struggle with the lack of

ability and retain talent and skills. we have to find a sweet spot. ettore supports, better wages and working conditions -- better supports, better wages and working conditions, and how to keep talent in their industries and places of business which are very important, particularly in the service economy. the health care and the home care industry, for example. the people we depend on to care for our loved ones are not able to feed themselves because they are paid such low wages. they have a lack of benefits. and the people who care for our loved ones, 30% are dependent on public assistance for food security. we are talking about a home care workforce with a growing meet -- growing need with an aging population and more children

being born and we have not figured out how to create better working conditions, better access to training and career pathways and that negatively impacts families like mine. we want care workers, health care workers who know our family members. you can apply that across many sectors. i think for my response, we have to think beyond the bottom line and think expansively about the stakeholders that make their business succeed. workers are key stakeholder that can no longer be ignored. host: nancy, in east peoria, illinois. caller: i'm 67 years old. i have retired but i am in the workforce. the place i work is with nursing home care. but we have been talking about are the young employees that are

hired don't have any work ethic. they don't come to work. they expect you to pay them and get mad when you expect certain things out of them. and then when we have the $300 added into there, these people quit because they wanted that extra money. in our society, our kids don't have that work ethic because we keep telling them you deserve $15 an hour. you deserve this. but these are beginning jobs, where you have to learn how to get ahead. but it's not working. one of our employees yesterday decided that they don't want to come in. so chances are she will get fired. we can't excite to them work ethic. -- explained to them work ethic. guest: great, inc. for that comment -- great, thank you for that comment.

what i would offer is that workers, a lot of young workers today have not had the experience of working in workplaces where they are experiencing the quality jobs. that's a big part of the problem. good quality jobs help nurture the kind of work ethic that you're talking about. if people feel like their work is valued. it is their opinion and thoughts -- if their opinion and thoughts are respected. if they have a voice and they won't be retaliated against when speaking up about working conditions, those matter in terms of people being able to get jobs, stay in jobs, and have the experience of building the kind of work ethic you are talking about. what we have learned at the years is that it's essential to think about work as raising the

floor and building a ladder. we have to improve the quality of jobs in the bottom of the ladder in addition to helping people move up. when we do that, we interrupt the cycle that you're talking about. it's essential to raise floors through public policy and business practice, as well as build a ladder. there's a few reasons that i want to name. there really are adults supporting families in loan playing minimum-wage service jobs. disproportionately women of color are increasingly in the service economy. and workers are organizing and sectors like hospitality, these workers are fighting for higher wages and basic labor protections and paid sick days which means they are keeping people in jobs longer and train and support them. as long as these jobs are poorly

paid, have volatile schedules and no paid sick days or leave, families cannot afford stable childcare. then low-wage workers churn at the bottom of the ladder and struggle to take advantage of upscaling opportunities. and what you are experiencing, people not showing up to work, because they might be trying for another job. and in sectors like childcare and home care, there are very few career ladders that allow people to advance and stay in those professions. the well-being of our children and elder care for loved ones would be greatly enhanced by retaining skilled professionals in these jobs. we have to look at the is this model and how we are raising the floor and building the ladder. host: we did set up a line for those in the age of 30 and 50, that's where sean is, in maryland. go ahead. caller: good morning.

i have two part question. he said the majority these jobs are going to the kids, but the kids can't get them. my son can get a job. most of the jobs the kids have, which they're going to minority people and illegals. they are 50 process they are 50 process there 50 to 60 years old and the kids have nowhere to go. the kids are not being taught in schools about the things right i'm about to pull my child out. the jobs are there. they going to illegals and what we are calling minorities. guest: first, let's be clear. black indigenous people of color workers are disproportionately impacted by this economic recession and pandemic.

black and latinx workers count for 36% of workers in front-line jobs. many of whom are lacking access to paid sick days and quality health insurance needed to care for themselves and their families. black front-line workers are also more likely to report experiencing retaliation by managers for raising concerns about the coronavirus. black allaire -- black americans losing their lives to the pandemic and more than twice the rate of white people. they have to double down on their commitment with the racial reckoning by making worker safety and access to jobs a key part of social justice efforts. i say all of this because we have to understand their disproportionate impacts. it's important to make sure that we are in fact creating good, quality jobs. so your son, and others can join the workforce and stay in the

workforce. the question of who is getting jobs and who is not getting jobs, whether they are immigrants or not, is not gonna help us stay focused on what's really important. businesses have a really important role to play in creating access to these jobs and making sure these are good quality jobs. and offering opportunities for many workers across racial -ethnic lines and more. we have to be really careful not to begin to point fingers at other communities, but rather together say why is there so much economic inequality in our country? why is there so much income inequality in this country? why are companies, like amazon and many others profiting at exorbitant amounts but workers

are still making nothing in comparison to what top managers and ceos are making of these corporations. they can afford housing, transportation, they can't even access full-time jobs, let alone benefits. that's across-the-board. all workers of all stripes and colors need to stand together to really push for a different future. we know there are big businesses out there that want to do the right thing and policymakers who want to do the right thing and many of us in philanthropy want to do the right thing to really incentivize better choices for our country and for a better future. host: the organization is the ford foundation. thank you so much for your time toda >> today marks the six-month anniversary of the jenny attack on the west capital.

more than 140 u.s. capitol police officers were injured and two people died during be pushed by demonstrators as they marched on the capital to stop the electoral college count of the 2020 presidential election. c-span marks the anniversary by showing the senate hearing on what happened that day and why, tonight at 8:00 eastern. >> next, chinese president xi jinping delivers remarks on the hundred anniversary of the chinese communist party. he talks about the strength of the chinese people, resilience of the military and warned against foreign interference, telling a crowd of thousands that chinese will not be bullied by foreign forces. he also is the secretary general of the committee. >> general secretary of the commonest party, chinese president -- communist