attack holds its first hearing tuesday. officers from the metropolitan police department and capitol police will tell 34e78s what they saw and experienced on that day. watch the hearing live tuesday beginning at 9:30 a.m. eastern, live c-span.org or listen with the free c-span radio app. ues. host: we take a look at an aspect of covid-19. join us this week is lawrence gostin, the o'neill institute for global health law director. we are here to talk about the world health organization. thank you for your time. guest: thank you for having me.

host: let's start with the organization itself. when it comes to worldwide vaccinations, what role will they play? guest: unfortunately, it hasn't had the impact it needs to have. basically, it started a facility called the act accelerator. there is a part of the act accelerator that is focused entirely on vaccines. it's basically a partnership between who and a big global alliance that works on vaccinations in particular childhood vaccinations. it promised to secure enough doses and distribute doses free to all low income countries.

it promised to vaccinate 20% of the population of low income countries by the end of the year. that is too low of a name. that would be far too low. it might not even meet the 20% mark. it doesn't look like it's going to. currently, less than 1% of the doses in the world have been administered in low income countries with the vast proportion given in the united states and europe. host: how dependent is the world health organization on the united states support? guest: it's really important. the united states traditionally had an outsized role in global health leadership. when you think about aids in

particular, if you think about polio eradication or smallpox eradication, the u.s. was a huge leader. it really worked closely with the world health organization. under president trump, we threatened to withdraw from who. we announced our withdrawal. now under president biden, although he is donating more doses of the vaccine than any other country by far, he has pledged one billion doses, it's a drop in the ocean. we need to think big and bold if we are going to do anything to end this pandemic. host: the director of the organization said 75% of all vaccine doses administered in 10 countries of the world, only 1%

receiving poor nations. and you paint the picture of the discrepancy between poor nations and richer ones? guest: you really couldn't find two completely opposite scenarios. take the united states today. we are experiencing a spike in cases. we are worried and wringing our hands and we should because of the delta variant. nonetheless, we vaccinated around 60% of the population. we are getting back to normal. colleges and universities and schools are going back in person , workplaces are going to be back humming in the fall. we are talking about booster shots and planning to authorize

its use among younger children under 12. meanwhile, in most low income countries, the vast majority of health workers are not vaccinated. the elderly are not vaccinated in nursing homes and other residents. they are just beginning -- the epidemic is beginning there rather than coming to a close. while we see a light at the end of the tunnel, they are in total darkness. i don't know if any of your viewers remember the aids epidemic, where there was a slogan that said there is a pill that can save your life, only the rich can get it. there is a vaccine that costs

very little that can save a life. it can get a country back, it can get a continent back. i don't think low income countries are going to forget the united states and europe for turning its back on them at a time when they need the most. we need to do much more. this is probably the greatest moral failure of our generation. host: lawrence gostin this is our weekly look at aspects of the covid vaccine, worldwide vaccination of the topic. (202) 748-8000 democrats. (202) 748-8001 republicans. (202) 748-8002 independents. if you want to text us, (202)

748-8003. before you talked about president biden donating vaccines to the cause, what have other countries done as far as donations of vaccines to make them more available? guest: to be quite honest, as bad as the u.s. is, it might be the best in the world. china has given more of its doses away then the united states. what china has done is something that i can't tolerate. yes they've given away the doses. the chinese vaccines are not as effective and safe as the ones authorized in the united states. china has been very mercantile and transactional about it.

it's used a lifesaving vaccine as a way to leverage its own economical standing. it might ask a country not to support taiwan or ask for strategic favors in the south china sea or a mineral in africa. that's not the way to have an open heart. i do think the americans have an open heart. we do need to do more. we've done a lot. just not enough. the biggest tragedy i think is that we've hoarded the vaccines in the united states. we bought up all the supply, including the raw materials. countries can't make it for themselves. india was making the astrazeneca

vaccine. then it went into crisis itself. it stopped producing and as a result, the misery was compounded. host: the first call is from barbara in oklahoma. good morning. caller: thank you. i'm a little confused about the masks and what these people who say their rights are being violated if they save 600,000 lives. these same people want to go up in our uterus and the giant and that's not invading my right? host: we will stop it right there.

rose, hello. caller: how are you? we are paying taxes to make these formulas to save our lives. we are paying taxes to give it over the whole world. we are supporting everybody. you are telling us america is turning their back on certain countries? isn't the president turning his back on us by keeping the border open and they are coming in with this covid? aren't the democrats turning their backs on us americans paying for everybody in the world? i want your answer to what you think the president is doing it to us. guest: i understand where you're coming from. the idea is this. first of all, i do think

president biden has done a pretty good job with the covid-19 pandemic in the united states. president trump gets credit for operation warp speed. in the united states, we have an excess of doses, a huge surplus sitting on the shelves and are vaccination rates of plateaued because people don't want to get a vaccine. we should be giving those excess doses to those who could use them and save their lives. it's very american to have compassion for others. we do have a big heart in america. we do want to help others. we have done it with aids,

tuberculosis, smallpox. that's what makes america great. it's really important to say the amount of money we spend on global health assistance is literally just a drop in the ocean of our federal budget. we often think we spent a lot, but as a percentage of our gdp, we spend very little. as a percentage of gdp, we spend far less than most other countries. let's open up our hearts to the rest of the world. it's also good for us. as long as covid is raging globally, there are going to be variance that come back and worry us in the united states. let's get this pandemic over with everywhere.

host: how does a one billion dose of drop in the bucket? guest: first of all, you need to doses per person. it's more than that in the global population. basically, one billion doses is really 500 million people. by most accounts, unless we really ramp up the amount of donations, poor countries will be vaccinated at high levels for three or four years. this could be a long time thing. in any case, if we wanted to

sevenfold our donations, that would be great. i agree with twitter. host: shelby is in tennessee. caller: good morning. i have one question. it involves children below 12 years of age. are they doing any research for that age range? especially since most schools are in a quandary about vaccines. guest: they are. i can answer that question. there is ongoing research about the safety and effectiveness of under 12's and the younger age. it's very likely that the u.s. fda will authorize covid vaccines for younger populations i the end of the year. we don't know when that is going to happen.

government officials have suggested that we are likely to see a gradual reduction in age. while it may not be here on time for the school term, i expect we are going to get some movement by the end of 2021. host: you mentioned china previously. there is an effort to investigate the cause of covid as it centers on china. can you explain that investigation? guest: basically, everybody knows about a year a half ago -- a year and a half ago, there was a huge outbreak in wuhan, china. it seemed to be the epicenter that started the pandemic. what we are trying to do is find

how did covid originate? where did it come from? there are two prevailing theories. the most likely theory by far is what's called a natural leap. basically, it means the virus was harboring in an animal and it jumped to a human being. we need to know because we are never going to be able to prevent the next pandemic unless we know how these viruses emerge from the animal kingdom. we have theories like wild animal markets. we have theories about this novel coronavirus being in baths

in southern china. the second theory, less likely but it hasn't been ruled out, a laboratory leak from the wuhan institute. who has been trying to find the origins for a long time. we suffered so much from this pandemic. we deserve to know how it began and how we can prevent the next one. china has not been cooperative at all. when the outbreak occurred at the beginning, china delayed in reporting. they were disingenuous and telling us it wasn't human transmission when it clearly was and was circulating wildly.

they have not allowed access they needed to follow up both leads, the naturals and the laboratory leak. it was almost like a disney tour. who is wanting more cooperation. i don't think that's likely to happen. host: there was a rejection of the phase ii investigation. they said we will not accept such an origins tracing plan. this disregards common sense and science. we hope they would reconsider the tracing as a scientific matter and great -- get rid of political interference. guest: we want to treat it as a

scientific matter and get rid of political interference. that means we need to have access to territory in china, to animal sources, to the laboratory. we need to have transparent information and viral samples. if we can do that, i want to keep this entirely scientific. i do not like the politicking. i don't think the two great superpowers should be squabbling and calling each other names. it's entirely unhelpful. it's just childish. we do want to keep it scientific. the pandemic most likely began in china. we need chinese cooperation. nobody wants to bash china.

the scientific community just wants cooperation and something that is vitally important to the health and safety and confidence of the world. host: i will play you what the white house press secretary had to say last week resulting in the decision. >> we support the debbie ho plan for phase two, which ensures the studies are scientific, expert led it, free from interference. we have seen the comments rejecting phase ii two of the study. we are deeply disappointed. their position is irresponsible and dangerous. we continue to call for china to provide the needed access to data and samples. this is critical so we can understand to prevent the next pandemic. this is about saving lives in

the future. we believe in a multilateral approach. that is a process has not been taken prior. that has been a big focus of strategy as it relates to our engagement with china. host: that multilateral approach she speaks of, if china has made this decision, where we go from here? guest: i think we are at an impasse. what she said was absolutely right. i think president biden and his administration have played this well. president biden has asked our intelligence agencies to use covert methods to find out what the origins might be. she's right. i've been in china many dozens

of times. i've got close colleagues there. i know the people there. the people are wonderful. the government is a closed government. it has behaved in relation to pandemics, even past pandemics, in ways that lacked transparency and accountability. there is zero possibility that china is just going to change its mind. we are at an impasse. western democracies, liberal democracies, the united states and europe, we wonderful and fair investigation. china wants the investigation to turn into other countries. that's just not credible.

we've got an impasse. i don't see any movement. the sad thing is every possibility that we may never know for sure how this pandemic began. what a tragedy after so many hundreds of thousands and millions lives taken around the world. we won't know how this began or how best to prevent the next one. it's not a very good sign for global humanity. that's why who has caused for a pandemic treaty to give them more powers. 20 heads of government have caused for such a treaty. it would try to have an independent scientific inspector the way we do nuclear facilities. host: let's hear from harriet in

maryland. go ahead. caller: thank you. my name is harriet. i am 77. i had my shots, april 13. i feel fine. i recommend all people, if you want to live, if you want to breathe next week or this week, have your vaccination. host: that is harriet in maryland. we hear about hesitancy here in the united states. is that a thing or worldwide? guest: it's interesting, harriet that was very well spoken.

everyone should get the shot. they should get it to care for their parents and grandparents and neighbors. we need to think about the common good. vaccine hesitancy is prominent in the united states. it's not exclusively so. the interesting thing is you have heads of state who got the luxury of hesitancy. in the u.s. and europe, we've got plenty of vaccine. we've got plenty of money and good health care. we don't get the vaccine. if you go to places like sub-saharan africa, there are huge majorities of people who are clamoring for the vaccine.

it's really a luxury and privilege to say that's ok. it's easy for them to do that. most of the people around them are going to be vaccinated and they will have some protection. put yourself in the position of a country that has low vaccine rates. the hospitals are being overrun. you would probably roll up your sleeve and ask your neighbor to do that. we have to think how privileged we are in the u.s. the first thing we can do is get our shot. we can support giving shots to others who need it desperately. host: joe is in pittsburgh, pennsylvania. caller: i have a question, it's more about the dynamics.

we give them 2 billion doses. the problem with thorough world countries like kenya, when you get into congo, fats want, they do not have the infrastructure to take care of the vaccine until the doses are given out. they don't have the refrigeration units. what is the world health organization doing about planning that out? guest: that's a very important point. let me just start by saying we sometimes underestimate the ability of lower income countries to administer arts vaccination programs. they have been successful in doing that. with polio, with smallpox. in countries that have gone through ebola or other outbreaks, they are good at

delivering vaccines to people. there are problems with refrigeration, electricity. if we invest only in doses, it's not enough. we do have to invest in vaccine infrastructure to get the vaccine stored safely, good quality. countries can do a lot for themselves. there is some help that we can assure. that's a great point. host: deborah is in ohio. caller: good morning and thank you for taking my call. i am retired. a microbiologist. my concern is the wto. food safety sanitation is a major part of the wto.

when you look at the wto and you look at wet markets, there is an opportunity for us as a globe -- global community to increase and improve that. that is something china should adhere to. can you imagine in the united states we would go to a local grocery store and one mile down the road we could pick out live animals and have them slaughtered. the fda would have a fit as they should. i am hoping the wto is going to move forward in terms of safety and sanitation. china only came into the wto around 2001. guest: you are talking about what we call one health, in

order to -- you need to look at human health, animal health, climate. they affect the circulation of pathogens. one of the big problems we have in the world that allows these leaps i talked about, that caused ebola and aids. to do that, we two separate human and animal populations. we need to end or strictly regulate live animal trade and live animal markets. we need to stop deforestation

because animals and humans are coming into closer and closer contact. we basically have to make sure we don't have this intense interchange between large human populations and exotic animal populations. that can be done through sensible regulation. wto is only one argumentation on that. we need to focus on that one health approach. we often talk about how we can respond to a pandemic. what we need to do is prevent the pandemic. we do that by preventing these spillovers from animals to humans. host: when it comes to vaccinations, what is the money and manpower assigned to it? guest: remarkably little.

who is very thin on the ground. if you think about the global budget for who, it's about the size of one large teaching u.s. hospital. the budget is one fourth that of the u.s. cdc. it has very little funding. it's got more funding for vaccinations throughput backs because countries like the united states and europe have donated. it has too little money and too little doses. host: charles is in michigan.

caller: thanks for taking my call. a couple of months back, you had a guest on, a doctor that talked a lot about the natural immunity the body produces from having had covid. everywhere i looked, there has been so much push on getting the vaccine. no one seems to talk about any kind of natural immunity. i look at the fact that the pandemic has been with us for a year and five months. we would have had that long to follow around people and study people that have had covid and recovered to know what that immunity is and how long it lasts.

we only have half that amount of time. everything is about the vaccine. nothing is ever talked about as far as natural immunity. some doctors out there really do seem to think natural immunity is a good thing. guest: i can quickly answer that. we do need to new more about how long natural immunity lasts and how robust it is. we do need to reseat ship more. it is hard to research because you can't do clinical trials. what we do know is the vaccine is far more effective than natural immunity.

every group i know recommends that even if somebody has had covid and has a certain amount of natural immunity, they should get at least one dose of the vaccine. that will boost their immunity. it is much preferable to also have the vaccine. we focus on the vaccine because there are so many people who are naive to the virus. we can boost their immunity quite substantially. we've got this miracle. we need to use it. host: lawrence gostin serves as

the director of the o'neill institute for national and global health. >> c-span is your unfiltered view of government. funded by these television companies and p more, including charter communication. >> broadband is empowerment. that's why charter has invested billions. building infrastructure, upgrading technology, empowering opportunity in communities big and small. charter is connecting us. >> charter communications supports c-span as a public service along with these other television providers, giving you a front row seat to democratcy. -- democracy. >> the house committee investigating the january 6 attack on the u.s. capitol holds its first hearing tuesday. officers from the u.s. capitol police and washington metropolitan police department will tell members what they saw

and experienced on that day. watch the hearing live tuesday beginning at 9:30 a.m. eastern on c-span3, online at c-span.org. or listen with the free c-span radio app. >> now undersecretary of state for political affairs, victoria newland, testifies on the biden administration's policy toward turkey. she addresses human rights concerns, sanctions against turkey for purchasing and deploying a russian missile defense and guarantee of free and safe elections in that country. the senate foreign relations committee is the host of this hearing, it's 1:20.