received that was disturbing was my brother reached out to me to indicate that -- to check to see if we were ok. it was indicated to him that i was ok, then as an aside, let me know, by the way, he and his family have received a threatening message from someone indicating that they knew where my brother and his wife and his three girls lived in that they had people in the neighborhood and that if me, meaning his brother, the congressman, did not stop telling lies about the election, something bad was going to happen. >> this week, you will also hear from two texas representatives, january 6: views from the house, sunday at 10:00 p.m. eastern on

c-span, c-span.org, or listen on the c-span radio app. conversation on homeschooling in the united states now. here is a recent headline from "the associated press," "homeschool is surging across united states." we are joined by michael donnelly who serves as senior counsel and outreach director for the homeschool legal defense association. good morning. explain first what your association does and what your mission is. guest: good morning, john. it is really great to be with you and your viewers today on a fine saturday morning. the homeschool defense association has been around for almost 40 years, working with families, working across the entire country in the whole world with homeschooling families, organizations, policymakers to make homeschooling possible for everyone and anyone who wants to do it. i have worked at the association

for 15 years. i have been a homeschooling parent for over 20 years. my wife and i homeschooled seven of our children. three or so going through the process. we graduated four from high school, three from college. it is a subject i enjoy talking about, and i appreciate your interest. host: we mentioned the surge. u.s. households homeschooling in the spring of 2020, about 5.4% of u.s. households homeschooled by the following 2020. the beginning of the 2020-2021 school year, it was at 11.1%. were the families that homeschool? is there such thing as a typical homeschooling family? guest: well, homeschooling cuts across all socio-, economic, religious and cultural lines across the country. if you can think of a family who is homeschooling, there homeschooling. that report showed it is growing extra we passed within i

communities, hispanic and black, showing 16.1% of black families are homeschooling, 12% of hispanic families are homeschooling. the census report you referred to is from february, and what we have been doing is watching these numbers closely, and we think that number is at about 18% of u.s. households of school-aged children that are homeschooling now. i was listening to your show before i came on, and i was listening to that last caller from florida talking about the impact that the pandemic has had on schools, and people are really concerned about the situation with education in this country, and they are turning to homeschooling in large numbers. host: in terms of where the surges have been, this chart showing the changes again from the beginning before the pandemic to the beginning of the 2020-2021 school year, when it came to black families homeschooling in this country, it went from 3.3% to 16.1%.

why the largest surge there in black communities in the country? guest: that is a very good question. i think part of the reason is because homeschooling prior had not penetrated the same numbers as it had in some other communities. about 24% of homeschoolers before the pandemic were hispanic families. i think 8% of homeschooling families, you talk about 3% of all families, but a percent of homeschooling families were black. there was a lot of opportunity and growth that happened in the black community, i think, as people heard about it, as the pandemic shut down schools. these families had to find different options, and, you know, during the first couple of months after the shutdowns, and everything back in 2020, everybody was kind of force to be at home in homeschooling. everyone had the opportunity to try out. what we have seen is people liked being home with their kids, even though it was difficult and the circumstances

were not pleasant for everyone and it was challenging, but they liked being home. now they have had the chance to try it, and many families are saying, you know what? we can do this. we are going to keep doing it. it is interesting to see homeschooling continue to grow, even as schools have continued opening up. host: michael donnelly joining us with the homeschool legal defense association. here is our phone numbers if you want to join the conversation. homeschooling families can call at (202)-748-8000. all others, (202)-748-8001. michael donnelly, if a family were to decide today that they want to start the 2021-2022 school year homeschooling their child, how they go about doing that? guest: the first thing i would recommend they do is go to a website we have set up just for people who are in that situation. we are a nonprofit organization, number supported but a public organization looking to serve everyone. they can go to youcanhomes

chool.com, a great resource with tons of free information about the steps to get started, connecting with other people in the community who are homeschooling and can help them speak through the aspects and getting connected with people, curriculum, and when you homeschool, there are legal regulations. it is legal in every state in america -- it did not used to be that way 30 years ago, but it is today since 1996, legal in all 50 states in the united states, but every state has different regulations. it is important you understand what they are. at hslda, we also have state pages where people can learn to comply with laws, and we have legal systems that help them with that. you can also go to youcanhomesc hool.com to get started, pick a curriculum and get started. there was a lot of flexibility

with homeschooling, john. if you try something, you are not locked into that curriculum or that approach. so, you can make changes along the way, see how your kids are doing with it, and it is just a great way to educate children. i am sure that the callers will call him to share their experiences with that. host: what are some main regulations you find across states? guest: in most states, there are some kind of notification where you just tell the local school or the state department of education that you are homeschooling. there are 13 states will you do not have to do that at all. most states have some kind of notice. in states where there was more than a notification, there some kind of requirement -- there is some kind of requirement for testing, and assessment or certain subjects you have to cover, but that is pretty much it. and it is really easy to get started and to keep homeschooling. there is lots of support

available for people who want to homeschool their children. host: what kind of test is a homeschooling child have to pass in states? guest: in states where there are requirements to assess, typically it is a standardized achievement test, and it can be pretty much any kind of test that meets those criteria, whether the california achievement test, or the iowa test of basic skills, and there are many other national standard achievement tests, the classic learning test is also one. lots of tests people can choose from that assess a child's progress. many states also offer an option for assessments, so a parent can write a progress report explaining how their child has performed over the year, what they have learned, how they have progressed. in some cases, states will also allow for the assessment of a child by a third-party qualified person, so a certified teacher,

or a person with a masters degree in education, or someone like that. host: you mentioned you graduated some homeschoolers in your own family. how does homeschooling for k-12 impact college applications if a homeschooling family wants to eventually send their child to college? guest: that is a great question. a lot of people who are thinking of homeschooling wonder if this will affect my child's career, their ability to get a job, and there was a time 30 years ago when it was a challenge and they had to work hard, but for many years, decades now, colleges have recruited homeschoolers because they have found a really equipped to learn. the homeschooling environment is one where parents are involved in the teaching, but learning is a natural thing. children are natural born learners, if you provide them with the right environment and the right material for them, they are going to learn, and they are going to learn how to learn. that is one of the things that homeschooling helps children learn how to do, is to learn how to learn.

that is what colleges want from their students, so they look for homeschoolers. standardized tests have shown that homeschoolers do extremely well, they do as well or better, on average in the act and sat from children from other schools. homeschoolers get employment in virtually every aspect. the military accepts homeschooled graduates as just the same as roger it's from any other form of education, so, homeschooling is not going to negatively affect anyone, and in a lot of ways, it positively affects the child's or the military -- child's chances into getting into college or the military. host: we are looking at numbers from the census bureau comparing homeschooling families in various states from before the pandemic to the start of the 2020-2021 school year. in alaska, there was a nearly 18% jump in families that

decided to homeschool. in florida, 13%, vermont, 12%, massachusetts, 10%, and we are letting you ask your questions about homeschooling this morning with michael donnelly, joining us to talk about it, senior counsel with the homeschool legal defense association. deborah is up first out of wisconsin. good morning, deborah. caller: good morning. my question is, there are adults out there who have kids, and they lack critical thinking skills, so, we want those parents to teach young kids? i am scared of the adults making a stupid decision they do now, and we want them to teach their kids at home. host: deborah, do you trust

teachers more than parents in that respect? caller: oh god, yes. host: mr. donnelly? guest: wisconsin is a great state to homeschool, people who want to homeschool in wisconsin, they filed a notice and are required to teach certain subjects, but we live in the free country, and i would just give you affirmation and assurance, that what the research shows is that the people who choose to homeschool do a really good job. there may be some people who and i don't think those people choose to homeschool. what we have seen is the people who choose to homeschool, they care about their children's education, and most people care about their children's education, but it shows that it works well for children, they are well educated, they learn how to think, they learn how to learn and the thousands of families i have encountered and

in the united states and around the world and homeschooling is a great way to be educated for those accused to do it. host: how did the social interaction develop a child homeschooled? even virtual -- develop a child homeschooled? even virtual classes require a degree of socialization. guest: there is this myth, and this is one of them of homeschooling that homeschoolers are isolated. the last 18 months, everyone has been isolated. when you look at what is happening in the schools, is that the kind of social interaction you want these days with masking and putting kids in bubbles and keeping them six feet apart? that is something parents are concerned about. they are concerned about what is happening in the schools right now, and that is not the kind of socialization they want for

their children. if you choose to homeschool, they have a lot of control on how that works, and you can influence the kind of social interactions that those children have. when you look at the research with what happens in homeschooling, whether they join a robotics clubs, sports, boy scouts, you name it, they have homeschooled children in all kind of social groups. in some respects, homeschoolers, and i experienced this in my own family, we are a little too socialized and very busy great sometimes i am like, hey, one of the reasons one it to homeschool was so we were not quite so busy, but we are always out socializing a lot. if you look at the community, find that the reality is quite socialized. host: i imagine seven kids also

keeps you busy. guest: they socialize amongst themselves, too. not every homeschooling family has seven, but, you know what, it is an interesting point. if i look at the homeschooling kids i know, read the research, and i also publish and have done research, when children are around adults, that is a good, positive form of socialization because their learning how to get along in society. homeschool kids do not go to a four wall, classroom school, stuck with kids their own age for eight hours a day, and that is fine, but in the homeschool environment, those children are interacting with children of different ages, a lot with other adults, and the parent can had a lot of influence on that and empower that and encourage that. so we can have a lot more influence in our kids' lives and their relationships within the family. i find them to be positive. lots of positive things for folks who want to homeschool, and they can learn more about that at youcanhomes

chool.com. host: ned, you are next. caller: hey boys. michael, i am so glad we have people like you who are reporting the good things that we are seeing develop in this pandemic. it is where. -- it is rare. it is like here in either go -- here in idaho, we have developed generation, nuclear power. it is how we are going to solve the whole climate thing. you never hear about the good stuff going on. host: buffalo, new york, good morning, you are next. caller: good morning, michael. i have enjoyed your remarks. my question is, would your organization lobby school boards across the country to encourage

widespread parent teacher teaching children, particularly for grades 1-3? kids come in all different descriptions, size, mental capacity, and attention span and one child is better -- is bound to do a better job on picking up on those things that a teacher dealing with 25 or 30 kids. people who have less than adequate education should be able to avail themselves of teachers to teach them how to teach their children. i am sure those people, like every other parent and they want

their children to succeed, and as you pointed out quite rightly, children are natural born learners. thank you for what you are doing. i hope you are able to incorporate my idea. host: mr. donnelly? guest: bill, you touched on so many great points on homeschooling. to answer your question, hslda is very active in legislative activity. we watch the legislatures in all 50 states, and we report that on the website. people can go to hslda.org and look at our legislative website. we track legislation in all 50 states and look at thousands and thousands of bills by year, you think, homeschooling and thousands of bills? we checked 24 areas of education all over the country, 50 states, thousands of bills, and you can check that out at our website if you are interested in new york.

new york is a challenging state to homeschool in, and buffalo is a great city. i have been there. i love it. a couple of other points you raise, bill, unlocking the unique learning potential of each child, that is what homeschooling is really about. each child has a unique learning profile and homeschooling allows parents in a small group environment, talk about the low teacher-student ratio, that is an important factor to children learning and having economic gains. when you have so many children in a class, it is hard for the teacher to deal with each child and every child has questions. when you are in school, the learning is passing, but when you are in a homeschooling environment, the learning can be more active. it is possible in a homeschooling environment to do a lot more and a lot less time. what we find is that homeschooling parents can do in two hours to four hours what it

takes their children to do in six hours to eight hours in a school. great point, bill. thank you for the perceptive observations about homeschooling. you can be assured that hslda will continue to do the work that we have done the last 40 years. host: jodey on twitter with this question, does a family receive federal money to homeschool their kids? guest: no, there are no federal subsidies of any kind for homeschooling. homeschooling is a private enterprise. in fact, that is the essence of homeschooling, parents are privately choosing to educate their children. embracing the flexibility that comes with that, being able to tailor a learning experience for each child. in some states, and a handful of states, really, there are some tax programs that allow parents to benefit and use their own money. there are other programs that give grants to lower income families who qualify for them

for education, but there is no federal subsidization of homeschooling. host: on the line for homeschooling families out of southpoint, ohio, good morning. caller: good morning. host: you are on with michael donnelly. caller: i just wanted to say my daughter-in-law homeschools my two grandchildren. they live in illinois. she was a homeschooled mother. her sister and brother were homeschooled. when she was preparing for her last work, she went to the school, got her education, she has her degree in education. so, she teaches them from home. those little boys are just as well-balanced as any kids that i have seen. they get out, they meet other children, they have sunday school, they have a homeschool co-op they participate in, they

get field trips and stuff like that. she takes them on field trips. it is very well-balanced that she is doing. i am so proud of her, and i am so proud of them. all the parents out there who are considering homeschool, consider it wisely because i think it is a good way to go. thank you for all of what you are doing. host: pat in ohio. this is sean in lockport, new york. good morning. you are next. caller: good morning, gentlemen. how are you both doing? host: good morning. go ahead. caller: i am a new york state certified teacher, but i have thought about starting my own homeschool business. 32 years ago i was able to teach a student and guide them, and they eventually were able to achieve their general education diploma. mr. donnelly, how would i go about maybe starting a business like that? guest: that is a great idea.

there are lots of people out there looking for help. my suggestion to you would be to go to the facebook groups in new york and just say, hey, -- you know, some of the facebook groups do not want posting services, so make sure you check the rules of the social media site you are on, but you could say, hey, i am a homeschooling teacher, is anyone looking for tutoring? you can also try to find the homeschooling groups in your area. hlsda.org has a group locator function, you can search groups in your area. you can do it by zip code, and just make contact with those groups and say, hey, i have some time, would anybody be interested in tutoring? or would you guys like to hire me to teach in classes that your co-op? i think the last caller talked about co-ops, you know, this whole idea of homeschoolers

gathering together and working together, that happens a lot. and they want people like you, who have time and skills and abilities, to come in, share your wisdom, knowledge, experience with a student. i think the homeschool groups would be very interested in that. i encourage you to find them, tell them about you, and give it a shot. that sounds great. host: jesse is next out of florida. good morning. caller: good morning. good morning. i have a concern about the advanced math and science classes. how does the average homeschooler have the homeschooling parent have the expertise to teach those subjects? in the public school environment, have what they called advanced placement, and you have experts that teach those classes. most of the technically advanced parents have jobs that take all of their time, so, how do you

handle really teaching the subjects that the kids are going to need him tomorrow's work environment -- in tomorrow's work environment? guest: that is a really great question. a couple of ways i think homeschoolers do that. number one, they do get together in these co-ops we talked about before, and they will bring in a teacher who might have a masters degree in science, teach physics or chemistry i cannot tell you how many times at our teaching table we have dissected sheep eyeballs or frogs. [laughter] kitchens are great labs for those kinds of things. host: where does somebody get a sheep eyeball? guest: john, google sheep eyeball for homeschoolers. you can get any kind of science kit you want, robotics kits, but what the families do is they get together often to bring someone in to a group and teach. there is a lot of online resources that are available.

hslda actually has an online academy where we offer advanced placement courses in all of these subjects, so we have teachers who teach them. once a week they will get together. you know, they do the work at home with the parent because that is what homeschooling is, at home most of the time, but we have guest: what we found is that our graduates get higher scores on average than others. that's really good. you also raised another interesting point about working parents. there are a number of families who parents both work and they homeschool. you might be like what? how would that work? they figure it out. one person works in the evening. one person worse than the day and they balance the homeschooling requirements with their work.

with people working a lot at home, you have a lot more flexibility to be able to involve both parents if you have both parents in the home to do the homeschooling. there is no such thing as a typical family thus there is no such thing as a typical homeschooling family. you can find families in all shapes and sizes. host: family out of blue springs, missouri. caller: hi, michael. thanks for what you do. i started homeschooling my son two years ago. it was mainly because of bullying and they haven't done anything to curb the gun violence and so forth. he was getting into fights about every other day. for seventh grade, i decided we would try homeschooling. he is how hat that he is so happy. he has -- he is so happy.

he has done so well. we use an online program as the main source. i supplement that. i work from home. so that makes it easy for me. i just want to say for all of those homeschooling families that come up for families that want to homeschool. if they have any doubts, he is a different kid. he is so happy and it has worked out great for us. what to say thanks for what you do and let people know that. host: you say you supplement the online program that you found. in what ways? caller: for the main courses, there are four main course requirements. for the other subjects, there's things like pe, band, music.

for the band, there is an online classes for instruments. i supplement, if he needs help, i can help him with subjects. you can do cooking, anything pretty much. that is how it works for arts -- for us. caller: this is so encouraging to hear. there is a problem with bullying in schools today. guest: that that -- this is so encouraging to hear. there is a problem of bullying in schools today. whether they have learning disabilities. that is another large group of people who have found homeschooling and are finding it and coming to it in large numbers, especially before the pandemic.

that was one of the fastest rowing -- growing groups his parents of students with learning disabilities. there's nothing like a parent working with the child with a learning disability because as a parent, you can see with the problem is right then and there and deal with it right then and there. we have a colleague who is our national educational research director. he has found that children with learning disabilities do so well in the homeschooling environment. i think it's great to discolor it took us on. it sounds like he is a dead. there are a number of homeschooling dad out there. there are widows and widowers. any kind of family you can imagine, there are families -- there are people who are doing it successfully. host: we talked about the academics. what about the extracurriculars? can homeschool kids participate

in extracurricular activities? guest: great question. the four states have laws that require that public schools allow homeschoolers to dissipate in public school sports. -- homeschoolers to participate in public school sports. even in those where there that's where that isn't the case, there are so many recreation leagues, civic leagues. any kind of extracurricular activity. any kind of sport you can think of. there are groups. it may be a little more challenging and rural areas, but in most places these children can access those kinds of activities and do well. the ncaa scholarships are open to homeschoolers as well. one of the things that homeschoolers have had over the years is challenges. challenges with ncaa. that's one of the things we are

here today. we exist to help homeschoolers succeed. we encounter occasionally homeschool will run into a little bit of a glitch, whether that is verifying a high school diploma or college application or military recruiter who is not familiar with homeschooling. people come to us with those types of questions and we help them. host: this is james, good morning. you are next. caller: this is all about killing teachers unions. it seems like the organization is out of an area that seems to push the scrap. the schools aren't that bad. -- that pushes this crab. the schools aren't that bad. i understand some people could teach their kids, but most people can't. they are too busy, they have to much on their plate. i will leave it at that. have a wonderful day, sir. guest: i appreciate the comment,

first of all. i can show you -- -- i can assure you that homeschooling is not about killing teachers unions. it is all about providing a tailored, flexible, safe, nurturing, free environment for kids to learn and explore their own natural inclinations. to learn in an averment that is free from bullying, free from distraction -- to learn in an environment that is free from bullying, free from distraction. i would do so agree with you. the average parent, perhaps even the below average parent more than capable of teaching their child and helping their child learn. the thing about homeschooling is different kinds of model of learning. it is not like school learning. it is different. you can't really look at it in that same way. i will say this also, back in the day when we were trying to

get sided with the teachers unions that were trying to kill student -- to kill homeschooling. host: what's the timeline on that? you talk about back in the day. guest: in the 80's. the history of homeschooling started in the 60's, real small. did not start growing until about 1980. that is when most states legalized homeschooling. there were a home that there were a handful that came before the 90's. your folks like the last caller that had the idea that parents could not teach their kids and that has been proven to be false. the teachers unions were very concerned and they still are. they realize that they just can't, homeschooling is accepted. it's normal. it works. the teachers unions decided they are not trying to kill homeschooling. they don't like it. they oppose it when they can.

that seems to even be changing a little bit. i hope it will. shouldn't we support all forms of learning russian mark why should there be a monopoly and just -- up learning? why should there be a monopoly? caller: good morning. i wanted to say my sister started teaching her kids at home to supplement what they were doing in school and one of the things she talked about, or one of the things that i've heard about friends is the difficulty of finding good educational materials. my sister lives in israel and she is been trying to find good english language material to supplement her kids education. i'm just wondering if you could speak to the challenges of finding quality educational materials and why there seems to be a lack of good material that's easily found for many

parents who want to either supplement or try to get through the pandemic by adding to their kids learning experience. guest: my experience is that's not the case. there is a plethora of good, quality learning materials for homeschooling. i'm not quite sure of the challenges the caller had or his sister had. if you're looking for a particular kind, you may have some challenges. but there is secular, religious curriculum. very good quality curriculum online, printed material. google homeschooling curriculum, you get thousands, probably millions of hits. you are overwhelmed with trying to figure out how to choose. that is a challenge most homeschoolers have. there is so much out there, how do you pick one? my advice is just pick one that

seems to fit your family, what you want to accomplish. you can always change it as you go. israel, homeschooling is illegal -- homeschooling is legal. it is small so you might not find hebrew-based, jewish based material. if you find that if you look, you can find it. there are tons of material. lots and lots of online and printed terrier. host: are there countries where homeschooling is not legal? guest: yes. germany, that is the most notorious country which does not permit homeschooling. they persecute people who want to homeschool. they try to take their kids away from them and families in germany who want to homeschool have to leave. they either have to leave or a handful are able to hide or face

up to the state. most places, homeschooling is allowed or legal. russia, you have amazing homeschool population. countries like brazil, south africa, the unite -- the united kingdom, ireland, japan, taiwan, africa. homeschooling is growing everywhere around the world in large part because of what happened during the pandemic. parents were sent home, schools were closed and never by the realize we got to figure this out. they tried it and these groups are growing in many countries. host: the segment was supposed to go until a 45 eastern this morning -- until 8:45 a.m. eastern this morning. can you stick around? michael in houston, texas. caller: some of my thunder was stalled with the teachers union, but my question is the money. the parents and the public at self-paced taxes to the government for these teachers to

teach. if these teachers are no longer going to be employed teaching because there is so much homeschooling, how is that money going to be back to the people because they are no longer using the public education system? especially with special needs. that's the part i don't quite understand is the bias against special-needs children. they are not went to get education through the academic system and i'm a big fan of academia, but i'm not a big fan of teachers unions. is it still legal? i believe it was rick barry tried to ban the public education system and send the money back to the parents. that's where i'm confused. how is that money allocated if the student is no longer in the school system. i'll take your answer off the air. guest: that's a very good,

complicated policy question that legislators in many states are grappling with. homeschool families do pay taxes and don't use the schools. the way school funding works in most states is that states get money in various forms and counties or localities get money directly for the schools. a portion of tax funding from the state level does go to the schools and that is based upon enrollment. the money that comes from the locality, property taxes, is not based on enrollment. everybody pays them. in terms of how did that money go back to the families, that's a great question. there's a very vigorous debate happening about that in a number of places around the country. one organization that tracks that is ed joyce.

--ed choice. lots of different ways creating scholarship organizations where physicist can get a tax credit for donated -- for -- organizations can get a tax credit -- where businesses can get a tax credit. it is my opinion, tax credits is a really good way to allow families to keep some of the money that they would otherwi have to pay in taxes that they are not using for schools. i appreciate that observation and it is an important policy question. host: sam on twitter with this question.

please talk about the tax advantages. guest: it is a christian organization. we are 501(c)(3) charity. we are member supported. with a pay a membership fee -- they pay a membership fee because we provide services. advice, consulting. we also litigate when there are issues litigate. we are, our sister organization is suing the district of columbia over allow schools to immunize children without telling parents. the law requires to tell the parents which we think is concerning. we are involved in doing lots of different activities. we serve all people. we don't just serve christians. we have members of all faiths, of all different kinds of

families. all are welcome to join and we serve everyone regardless of that. host: powder springs, georgia. this is an on the line for those who homeschool. caller: i appreciate you taking my call. i went to high school -- i was a high school teacher and my granddaughter happened to be homeschooled which i did not like at the time. the problem is that after she supposedly got her high school diploma, she began to realize that her education was really deficient. i noted it. we were discussing her education and as an american literature teacher, i was disturbed by the fact that she never got beyond jonathan edwards which is really terrible in my estimation.

she just did not know anything about american literature since the 18th century. the big thing about the homeschooling for me, there are several different issues. public education was designed to protect children. -- to protect children who were required to work the farm instead of going to school. my mother-in-law was not educated. she went through the fifth grade. she really was not avon able -- was not even able to maintain family budgets and take care of things the way she should have. public education with -- provides minimal education so that everybody will have a basic knowledge of what they need to survive in this country. many people who are homeschooled just don't get that. my granddaughter was very upset later because she felt that she had been denied her rights to an education. i think that's one of the things

that we have to be careful about . the other factor is the tax money. the tax money, tax money provide services for everybody. whatever they are complaining about with the tax, much of tax goes or school supplies. the homeschooling people want supplies provided for them free, but they don't understand that money comes out of public education. host: you bring up several points. guest: homeschoolers don't want anything for free. we just want to be left alone mostly. i would say that's incorrect. every family, every child has their own experience. the caller is sharing her individualized experience. she's making a number of allegations. we can't assess that. all i can tell you is what the research shows. anybody can go look at the research.

thousands of peer-reviewed journal articles, lots of research has been done on homeschooled children area on average, the homeschool child does extremely well, better. they go to college, get in the military, get employed. there are failures in every walk of life. i went to the public school and somehow i turned out ok. i had a pretty decent experience in school, but i'm very experienced this but i'm very excited about the experience my children have had. had i been aware of it, it allows parents and children to taylor a program --tailor a program of education. a few cases where maybe you did not work out as well as it should have, but on average when you look at it it works really well. host: on that line for homeschooling families out of georgia. good morning. caller: good morning. i want to say thank you to

c-span and the wonderful programming, history programming and opportunities that we have to have an enlightened view with c-span offering the daily and even congressional coverage. i want to expand upon the conversation that we just had with the elder, with the grandparent. to go to the tax issue, as the group is a nonprofit organization so therefore it is tax exempt. i also want to say that as related to the gentleman who called from texas that what is going to happen to the dollars, what happened to the dollars that i have no children in the k-12 and we pay six to $10,000.

many childless couples are paying very high. we are postgraduate, high earners, doctors, professors, people who pay who have no children and yet we support the system of public education because that is what carried us through. our parents sent us to private schools and they paid it. if you are receiving tax-exempt money and you are also parents who do not live in housing. they live in rentals. they pay sales tax, but 90% of the funding for public schools for education that you actually want to transfer that money that parents would have the money transferred as a credit, -- a credit. if they are renting, they don't pay property tax. they pay sales tax. i want you to get the clarity that property taxes take care of 90% of the federal government.

host: let michael take that up. guest: tax policy is complicated. i did not say that i want that money transferred or that we support tax credits as a way of recognizing the double burden on homeschooling families, but you make a point of it was decided we are going to find public education. it's an important conversation. we have to ask the question "are the public schools doing what they should be doing with the money?" public education spending has gone up astronomically in the last 30 years, but achievement has not gone up much at all if anything. policymakers wonder about that. i'm not here to say public schools should be funded or what have you. that is a different discussion. i'm here to talk about homeschooling.

homeschooling is a great way for families who want to have a different way to educate their children. it works. people who want to learn more can learn it at our website. it's a special website we set up for people who are think about homeschooling. these are important questions that y

>> sunday night on q&a, the american conservative magazine senior editor talks about her book, boomers. the men who promised freedom and delivered disaster. >> the one-liner i didn't come up with but i think is brilliant, the american generation who sold out but would never admit it. on one hand, there is a great deal of idealism and sense of themselves. very morally noble. noble idealism. liberating humanity. but, on the other hand a great deal of selfishness and narcissism. and, a blindness to the ways their liberationist agenda knocks down functioning institutions and left a lot of people worse off. >> helen andrews and her book, boomers, sunday night at 8:00 eastern. you can also listen to q&a as a

podcast wherever you get your podcasts. >> sunday, c-span's series, january 6, viewed from the house, continues. three more members of congress share stories of what they saw, heard and experienced that day, including texas republican, ronny jackson who recounts what happened during the early moments on the house floor. >> everything was going fine. i feel like only five minutes or so, we were going back and forth. alternating back and forth. nancy pelosi was at the podium. she was overseeing it all. at some point, i didn't really notice but they pulled her away and somebody else came in to replace her. i did not really pick up on that. i'd seen that happen a few times. so that didn't really catch my attention but we did catch my attention was shortly after that, the capitol police officer

started coming into the chamber. we were still actively debating, people were talking, and they were making a lot of commotion. the doors to the chamber are typically open. and they started shutting all the doors. and you could hear them locking. you can hear the doors locking. then, i noticed several of them were standing in front of the doors and they had weapons out. and i was like what is going on? >> this week, you will also hear from democrats of texas and hakeem jeffries of new york. sunday at 10:00 eastern on c-span, c-span.org or listen on the c-span radio app. >> next, federal reserve vice chair richard clara talks about the u.s. economy with the peterson institute