[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2021] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> all "q&a" programs are available on our website or as a podcast at c-span.org. ♪ >> coming up this morning on "washington journal," the competitive enterprise institute's vice president of policy, wayne crews, discusses the annual cei survey on the size, scope, and because of federal regulations. then, eviction lab's anne kat alexander discusses evictions and rental assistance programs during the covid-19 pandemic. and johns hopkins university

assistant professor annette anderson on covid-19 and the start of a new school year. be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text messages, and twe ets. "washington journal" is next. ♪ ♪ host: this is "washington journal" for august 9. the senate one step closer to passing the bipartisan infrastructure bill. able to be taken up later today or possibly early tuesday morning. the senate will continue work. you can follow along on c-span two, or the radio app. we want to hear from you and how much to trust government when it comes to making and implementing covid policy.

here is how you can contact us -- republicans, 202-748-8001. democrats, 202-748-8000. independent, 202-748-8002. you can also texas, follow us on c-span -- an instagram. you can find it online, but it quotes an axios poll saying the most recent polls that 70% of americans have a great deal of trust in the federal government information to give them accurate information about the virus. 30% have a fair amount of trust. that combined, 56% which is rounded close to the 59% of the

adult vaccinated against the virus. 91% of adults fully vaccinated have a great deal of trust in the federal government to give accurate information about the coronavirus. the percentage of fully vaccinated drops to 70% among those with a fair amount of trust. 35% who have no trust at all. the annenberg public policy center also releasing a pole about levels of trust on specific aspects of trust when it comes to covid issues. it says when it comes to primary health care providers, 83% saying they are confident their primary health care provider is providing trustworthy information. when it comes to the food and drug administration, 77% saying they are confident in the fda, which authorized emergency use of the vaccine. 66% say the centers for disease

control and prevention is providing accurate information on covid. and when it comes to dr. anthony fauci, 67%. that is a look at your level of trust when it comes to government. we are asking you in the first hour your level of trust in the federal government, and you can comment on state and local government when it comes to making in bloomington covid policy. again you can call us, 202-748-8001 four republicans. 202-748-8000 four democrats. independent, 202-748-8002. one of the people on the sunday shows was florida senator rick scott he spoke about the access to the vaccine and information from the federal government. he was the former governor of the state of florida. here is senator scott from yesterday. * -- [video clip]

senator scott: here's what i think the government should do -- give us good information. americans are smart. they will make full decisions for our families. they cannot go back to fear, fear that shuts down schools. hers all families. here's what i believe we ought to do. at every level of government, let's be honest. if you feel comfortable, get the vaccine. if you don't, figure out how you will keep yourself safe. i will do everything i can to tell people i have been comfortable with the vaccine. i had covid. i don't want anyone to get covid. >> you think former president trump and other senior republicans are doing enough talking about vaccinations and the need for the population to get that to keep people safe? senator scott: well, he got the vaccine. i have been everything i can to make sure people are couple

getting the vaccine. every republican i know has major people are getting correct information. host: that was senator scott appeared when it comes to facebook posting, jonathan rhys jones from facebook saying when comes to level of trust, depends on who is making it, texas state government, not one bit. marsh marie saying hell yes, desantis is doing it right. give us a call on the lines. some of you between us this morning. let's start with roger from north carolina. democrats line. you are up first. go ahead. caller: i just want to say i do trust my covid policy. host: let's go to anne from

canyon lake, texas. independent line. anne, good morning. caller: good morning. first of all i would like to say whenever you are on there and a republican calls it, or a conservative, you get a smirk on your face, and i think you need to watch the videos and see how it comes off. host: aside from all of that, we are talking about levels of trust in government -- what do you think when it comes to covid policy? how much can you trusted? caller: how can you trusted when you see it is all politicized, when they have coverage of dr. fauci talking about a super-spreader event in south dakota, when he neglects to talk about a -- what happened chicago with lollapalooza, what happened at martha's vineyard with obama's birthday party? what about what is happening at the border? all the people coming across the board, testing positive for

covid, or not being tested at all, then being -- they are being released all over the united states. host: that is the federal government. what about the state and local governments? caller: as far as andy beshear, i don't trust him at all. he is basically just on a power trip. he is trying to control everything that is going on in the state of kentucky, and he is probably going to get voted out in the next election. host: what about governor abbott in texas? caller: in texas, i agree with what he is doing. i was at the san antonio riverwalk, and there were people everywhere. it was packed. people were having a good time. they were mingling together, they were not wearing masks. there were some people wearing masks. people are sick of it. host: tom in lake geneva, wisconsin, republican line. your trust in covid policy.

caller: i don't have any trust in the government, in cnn. you guys are democrats, democrats, democrats. host: we are asking people your level of trust in government covid policy? caller: the same i would for government as i do for c-span. you are a democrat. host: ok. we will leave it there. we are asking on your level of trust when it comes to the federal government -- you can focus on the federal government. you can call us on the lines, 202-748-8001 four republicans. democrats, 202-748-8000. independents 202-748-8002. as we talk about this issue today, one of the things playing along in the senate is the expected or potential passage of the bipartisan infrastructure bill. here to join us and tell us the latest about what is going on on

that effort, the rollcall white house and chief congressional correspondent. good morning to you. niel: -- caller: -- guest: good morning. host: tells a -- tell us what happens going forward. guest: sunday night the senate voted to go over the procedural hurdles of the spending package, spending on, sort of, hard infrastructure. there was a boat to waive the budget act because the cbo score did not come back saying the bill was fully paid for, and there were other, sort of, procedural elements that needed to be taken care of prior to a closure vote to limit debate on the underlying package. the senate as now, out of

session, as you say, until noon, but once they come back in, they are continuing, and they have been effectively while they are out, continuing to, sort of, burn off the 30 hours of post-cloture debate. we don't anticipate any anticipate -- additional amendments because it probably would take unanimous consent to have any amendments at all to this legislation at this point, and if all the time gets used up, and they don't get any sort of agreement according to the scorekeepers, the clock will run out at three: 11:00 a.m. on tuesday -- 3:11 a.m. on tuesday morning. host: as far as a potential vote at that time, our republicans and democrats in the senate ok taking the vote that early in the morning -- we heard about issues concerning

cryptocurrency, other issues coming up -- where is the body as far as resolving all of that? guest: it is funny, because the issues are not, in fact, result. but, because the closure vote went through sunday evening, there is not really a logical path to resolving them, again, unless you can get some sort of unanimous agreement that you can call up additional amendments to be considered. . once cloture is invoking you have started going through any -- brokering through a filibuster threat, your madman's are restricted. you are not really allowed to amend a substitute that has been adopted by the senate, unless you get consent to do that as well. so, are the cryptocurrency issues resolved?

frankly, no, but it also appears like the bill is going to be on track to passage in the senate, at least, without everything being resolved. as for the timing, it would be fairly normal, one would think, for the senate to either get an agreement to vote sometime a little more humanely either monday night or tuesday morning, and i think that may be what the discussions when they come in at noon are going to be, whether or not anyone intends on having to stay at all today or everyone was to come back at 9:30, 10:00 tomorrow morning, and deal with it then. host: have we seen from our book -- from republicans who originally supported moving this along, support for a vinyl -- final vote, and will that expand amongst republicans in the senate? guest: there are two camps here

-- there are republican senators involved in potentially the outskirts of negotiating group inputting the legislation together. todd young of indiana and jerry moran of kansas are republican senators involved in the processing one shape or form who have decided to vote against the legislation, or at least have been against the procedural votes. senator young announced in a statement that he was against the bill itself, citing among other things to problematic cbo score, but it has been ticking up, so i think net net, you were looking at the high 60's or low-70's for the final tally in

the senate, which in 50-50 body is kind of remarkable. i'm not sure if it should be remarkable, but realistically, getting something, if they can cross the 70-vote threshold in particular, it becomes more of an accomplishment, and also something that becomes harder, i think, for the house to even contemplate trying to amend. host: we have heard reports after the infrastructure bill is resolved they moved next to the reconciliation bill. what is the pathway for that this week? guest: what they are going to try to do this week, again, before this delayed august recess gets underway -- if you haven't looked at the calendar lately, the senate is not supposed to be in washington this week, but here we are. and, so, what they are going to try to do this week is deal with

the budget resolution for fiscal 2022. it is, in fact, already august, and in fact there is not a budget resolution yet. once the senate does the budget resolution, after all the procedural steps that go with that, which includes up to 50 hours of debate on the front end , followed by what is probably one of the -- i can't imagine it is the most exciting thing if you are one of the production team at c-span who has to stay up all night dealing with the budget vote-a-rama, where the senate consent -- spends all evening considering amendment after amendment, and my colleagues at cq roll call will be right there along side

everyone trying to keep track of all the amendments in the coming days, but once the budget resolution is done, and we, sort of, grind through the process, sometime friday -- most likely would seem to me it probably will be done by friday -- that will provide the reconciliation instructions. the house will have to come back in, presumably, at some point in august to deal with the resolution. steny hoyer has indicated that is at least the plan or the expectation. then they can get to work writing the budget reconciliation bill, which is the $3.5 trillion, roughly, spending package, which contains the rest of president biden's, sort of, families plan and jobs

plan priority that did not make it into the infrastructure plan. host: niels lesniewski, who follows this for roll call, serves as their white house and chief legislative correspondent. thank you for giving us the latest. guest: thank you. host: you can follow along -- the senate comes in at noon. we are asking you about your level of trust in government when it comes to covert policy, either making it or implement it. alexander. brooklyn, new york. democrats line. thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: yes. good morning. i trust the state and local response -- if you are in new york, it was very difficult, but at the same time it is not about people like me. i hear tons of colors that

accept -- callers that accept, implement trust in the government, but it is really about other people favoring other people not to get the vaccine. at the sturges event, not hundred thousand, one million people at an event that will be a super-spreader -- it is convincing those people that is important, not me. host: georgia appeared republican line. next up. hello. caller: hello. how are you doing? host: i am fine, thanks. caller: mike, design voted trump during the last election, consider myself republican, i like his policies. i trust the science. just because you are a republican, does not mean you deny scientist. i heard government scott saying if you feel comfortable, take the vaccine. it is not if you feel

comfortable. you don't have the right to go around and spread infect other people that leads to their deaths. that is my comment. host: julie. ohio. independent line. you are next up. caller: i actually live in tennessee. our governor here in tennessee is paying farmers to inject our cows with a shot --with the copan vaccination shot? so they don't pay people, they pay the farmers to inject the cows. host: so about your trust in government as far as how it is implemented? do you change your level of trust on the federal government or the local level? caller: at the local level, i don't trust our government here, i don't trust any government. do your own research. please research back to 2015 on the vaccinations -- research everything.

i researched how they did the animals -- all the animals died within two years of this vaccination. host: you talk about local government, you said you trust them? caller: no, i don't trust the local government. i don't trust anybody. everybody flip-flops. they really don't know anything about this disease. if you don't know anything, everyone is just guinea pigs. host: that is julie there and ohio. it was asa hutchinson on cbs "face the nation," who made his initial comment about his initial reaction to vaccines in his changing of minds. governor hutchinson: first of all, it is not what the government says, and i recognize that is not the answer that is needed or persuasive, but i will call on a local physician they know when they trust in their community and say -- ask what you say about that and that trusted advisor is more persuasive and fact-oriented and

helps to dispel the myth. the second thing that is important is the fda has to act. we have had well over 100 million americans that are vaccinated. they are not going to come in now and say well, that shouldn't have been approved. as dr. fauci says, they are guiding the eyes and crossing the t's. we need the final approval. host: do think if the fda approves -- >> do you think after the fda approves there will be any mandate in school districts? governor hutchinson: not in arkansas. i don't accept a vaccine mandate, but we can do it through education. i do expect some employers in sensitive industries will require vaccines, but you have to have fda approval before that is more broadly accepted.

>> when you have been going around the state, a lot of people have said we are in this together, but you made a statement where you said some politicians are playing to people's fears and not being compassionate. are we all in this together based on your experience? governor hutchinson: well, we are all in it in terms of trying to get through the pandemic, but we have to have leaders that will step up and say that is a myth, that is not supported, and you all need to listen rationally to people. we can't just give in to the loudest voice, which is 15% of people who are not going to take the vaccine regardless, that believes in the conspiracy theories that are totally irrational. we have to have leaders that will be able to resist the loudest voice in the room and talk common sense sense, compassion, and logic to them. host: governor asa hutchinson of

arkansas there -- new information when it comes to the right of those being infected with the delta variant of covid -- 100,000 new covid-19 cases a day. the associated press reporting over the weekend, the headline, just to show you that. when it comes to specifics in the washington post this morning, when it comes to new cases, deaths, and vaccine doses, when it comes to cases as of 8 p.m. sunday, 35 million. cases yesterday, 33,881. deaths total 616,000. yesterday alone, 235. when it comes to vaccine doses administered, total of 251 million. doses administered yesterday, seven hundred 73,742. that is the rate of those statistics.

your level of trust is what we are asking about. topeka, kansas. independent line. here is chris. hello. caller: hello. how are you? host: i am fine. go ahead. caller: i do not trust the government at all, but i wish texas would take up a collection and ship all of these illegals to washington, d.c., and all the problems would be solved. host: why would you say you don't trust the federal government? caller: i was drafted when i was 19 and i fought in the war for this country and they did nothing but lie to us from day one. host: how does -- does that affect how you trust the government as far as covid policy is concerned? caller: every word that comes out of their mouth is political and a lie. host: that is chris in topeka, kansas. you will hear from zach in bethesda, maryland.

independent line. caller: i don't agree -- this is out of control. we need truth. we get one statement, and it is the exact opposite the next day. i hope we get some kind of consistency here. host: do you apply that equally amongst the federal government and your state and local government there in maryland? caller: absolutely. host: how so -- what have you heard from state and local governments that you question? caller: well, it doesn't matter. it is all over now. if it is all over, we shouldn't have to worry. host: when you say it is all over, what do you mean by that? caller: i don't know. that is what we have been told.

do you have a different understanding? host: i just read about the number of new deaths, new infections, but you say it is all over. caller: well, look, everyone is happening -- acting like nothing happened. that is not the case. people were walking around with gas masks on and all of this other stuff, and now they are pretending like nothing happened. host: we will hear from carmine in bronx, new york. democrats line. caller: good morning. my comment is i think most americans will be reluctant with the vaccine and i am thinking the reason why that is is the origins of it -- when the virus first came out, you literally, maybe even c-span, you were banned from saying it was possibly a biological weapon and

that made a lot of americans reluctant and we can express our opinions. host: i wouldn't say we were banned on saying anything on that front. caller: facebook would throw you off, but i understand what you are saying. currently, if you look at different labs around the world, they share and they are creating viruses that are not natural. dr. fauci is a big part of that. that is one of the reasons why a lot of americans don't trust what is happening. dr. fauci funded, whether or not he rick -- regardless of whether he funded wuhan or not, he was a proponent of creating abnormal viruses, and i think this thing broke out. when you have dr. fauci as the head of this thing, americans are not comfortable with this. host: to clarify, as far as your level of trust, you don't trust the federal government. does that apply to state and local government?

caller: the minute the top, dr. fauci -- that is the only person the media goes to, showing him, and americans, we get it. a lot of americans -- i am a democrat -- a lot of americans know believe this man anymore -- we don't think the united states really knows what this virus is going to do, and the fact we are not allowed to know how it really started is another big part. host: that is carmine in bronx, new york. let's hear from jack in georgia. jack is on the line for republicans. go ahead. caller: yes, sir. good morning. i am really glad you all are having the show. i waited six months before i got both covid shots. i understand people -- first, you shouldn't be a democrat, independent, republican -- we are americans. people need to set aside their

faults and do their research on it. i waited 16 months. i am fully vaccinated now. i never got sick. people think there are chips in them. i think this is a bunch of malarkey, some of the explanations they give for not getting it. my arm hurt. i got the first one, and then the second shot six weeks later. i never got sick. i mean, i am an avid gun owner, avid hunter, i am a steelworker -- it is not about the democrats or the republicans. we have to take control and watch out for one another. the virus doesn't have nobody's name on it. it is after everyone. host: what ultimately convinced you? caller: watching the tv,

honestly, watching your show. i am a big supporter of "washington journal," and i trust you all, but i watch what you all see, and dr. ouchi -- this man has -- dr. fauci, he has dedicated his life to science and trying to help people, and i see republican senators calling this gentleman a liar, and all this man is up there doing trying to save lives, of all people. host: jet, one more question if i may -- since you say you took the vaccine, as far as your federal -- level of trust in the federal government, how much would you say you trust them? caller: i believe that the president of this nation was handed something that not many people would have been handed, and he is doing the best he can possibly do.

i trust the federal government, but i definitely trust the public pharmacy that gave me mine in wonder, georgia. host: that is jacking georgia talking about his level of trust when it comes to the federal's government efforts. you can talk about that, to be go down to your state level if you wish. your local level if you wish. 202-748-8001, democrats. 202-748-8000, republicans. independent, 202-748-8002. roseann says she trust the government -- they get information from science. she says i feel fortunate i am my family live where i do, san diego there. lynn says governor baker needs to step up and say everyone needs to wear masks whether you are vaccinated or not.

george from susanville, california, here the governor is lost as mask mandates and lockdowns have failed. victoria from texas this morning, saying she does not trusted at all -- i'm assuming government at all levels. south carolina. david. independent line. you are next up. caller: i would like to say i do trust my state and local government, but as far as on the federal level, i do not trust them at all. host: what is the difference between the two, do you think? caller: i just don't think at the federal level the administration that is currently in there, i just don't feel like they have the level of confidence that they need to handle something like this, but

as far as my state and local government goes, it has been more along the lines of -- the government has been more -- it seems like a partnership with local businesses and local governments, and i think it should be more along those lines there. at the federal level, i just don't see the competence in this administration to get us through this as smoothly as we could get through it. host: on our republican line, jean calls us from florida. hello. caller: yes. i'm talking about how i don't trust the federal government policy whatsoever. host: why is that? caller: it should be called the lie-den administration for one thing. you continue to read from " washington post," and "new york

times," and these are papers that put out false information. host: why don't you trust administration when it comes to covid policy? caller: it has done nothing but flip-flop, flip-flop, the whole time this is happened. they were given everything they needed as far as the medication goes, and all he did was flip-flopped information to people. host: as far as governor desantis that are in florida, how do you of this is? caller: well, if everyone would work the way he was working, this country would be about better. host: what you mean about that? caller: everything is running smooth. there are no big issues. democrats are trying to push little kids to wear a face mask and it is doing more harm than good. host: as far as the governor not putting a mask mandate on children, do you agree with that? caller: absolutely. that should be up to parents to do, not the federal government, which is doing nothing but lying to us. it should be called the lie-den

administration. host: another floridian. benny, jacksonville, photoperiod democrats line. -- jacksonville, florida, democrats line. caller: hello. on the state level i do not trust what is going on. i took both of my shots. i'm doing fine no side effects, anything, but we need to push this more hard in jacksonville, florida. we need the masks on a state level and on the federal level, i think that we are not working hard enough to push certain issues. we have to get the message out there.

where are just not getting the job done on the federal level. host: when it comes to the state level, we come to about the governor's reluctance to put a mask mandate on children. why do you think that would work? caller: because children can protect themselves. under 12, they cannot receive the shot. we need some kind of protection. i am living proof of that. i have been present with some people that say they had the virus, but i had my mask on, and i am now -- more cautious now -- everywhere i go, i have my mask on, even though i have both of my shots. i still have to be careful. host: that is benny there in florida. this is from cbs news saying it was an emergency rule that will allow parents to use vouchers to transfer children out of schools that require masks, but not

everyone agrees move -- with the move. governor desantis is threatening to withhold funds from districts that require masks. a school board member -- host: that is out of florida. when it comes to texas, "new york times" talks about headlines in texas -- same last ticket was governor ron desantis, now it is governor greg abbott facing criticism as icu beds have dwindled to the single digits. if there ever remains firm's

refusal to enact any statewide mandate and prohibit local officials from doing so in their own communities, saying mr. everett says he's focused on personal responsibility. abbott has been -- says he has been clear we must rely on personal responsibility. it goes on from there. you can read the story online if you wish. ralph, washington, d.c.. you are next up as far as your level of trust in government for covid policy? caller: virtually zero. i remember when our great leader found she said we don't need masks -- filed she f --auci, said we don't need masks. he lied to us from the start. then we have the chinese developing this virus. first of all, fauci somehow was

involved with that appear at all information came out and pointed to a lab in wuhan being 200 yards away from the fish market where they don't sell bats. the whole thing was a cover up her now they are suppressing information from that. host: so from those two incidents alone your level of trust and the government is based on that are other things? caller: let's go back to the vietnam war. i am a biotech investor. it typically takes 10 years to develop a vaccine. they got it out in your. this was very quick. i watched a company get rejected from the fda after 11 years, $1 billion, three phase-three trials. they are talking about testing children, and they rejected the drug. i was stunned. 25,000 people you will die because of this.

they said we know the government -- drug works, you met the criteria, but now you have to prove hypoglycemia doesn't kill people. host: tom. caller: good morning. first of all i would look to say everyone should be vaccinated against this illness. it is important, but i don't trust the government or the press, regarding just about anything, and this is one of them. for example, have you seen a single statistic on the number of people who have had covid and recovered and are probably now immune? i will be listening the rest of the program. host: is that your bases on the lack of trust from the government, or are there other

of things? caller: there are plenty of other things. let me talk, pedro. host: i am following up with questions such as what. caller: ok. i am trying to tell you such as what. have you seen a single statistic on the number of african deaths compared to the rest of the world? host: how does that compare at all? caller: because they use chloroquine for disease in africa, ok? so if they actually showed how few deaths there are in africa compared to the rest of the world -- host: how do you know that definitively? caller: i have looked it up. i have taken the time to look it up. when you look at the number of deaths per nation, you don't get to africa until you get to the bottom of the list.

so, please, pedro -- host: ok. tom in florida. let's hear from the line. -- the independent line. caller: good morning, pedro. they dropped the ball in the beginning when they wanted to play politics, the media -- you guys included, and the democrats, because they said hold off and wait because they did not want trump to getting win on the trump vaccine. they had this time to redeem themselves and say trump was right, he got this -- he got warp speed, he did a good damn job, and they still don't want to give the man credit. host: as far as your current level of trust? caller: i would rate it as a five. each party chose party over the people. that is why we are in the mess we are in now.

kamala harris and president biden said i don't know about the vaccine. host: but at the current level where vaccines are going out in federal and state efforts are being made, how would you rate that? caller: they still do want to give credit where credit is due -- they don't want to say they did a job -- great job on it, get the vaccine. now they are saying trust us, the one in power. they are half yearly, -- half in, half out. warp speed, whatever you say, they created it, they made a vaccine in record speed, record time. host: are you saying if that was admitted that would change your level of trust in government? caller: if they would be honest, is that what you are asking me? host: if they made both those admissions, would it change your

level of trust in government? caller: yes. honesty. be honest. host: ok. we will take calls for four more minutes leading up to 8:00. if you want to talk about your trust of government, 202-748-8001, republicans. democrats, 202-748-8000. we will pause for a bit to get a sense of what the white house will be covering. thank you for joining us this morning. because we started the program with this, talking about the status of the infrastructure built, what is the white house doing behind the scenes as they watch what is playing out in the senate? guest: i think they are mostly trusting senate majority leader chuck schumer, a close white house ally, to manage the ut they feel good about where things are at.

we are into august, so they knew they could not wait too much longer for this to be passed because once in august recess comes by, there is a real sense they would lose momentum, but they feel in pretty good spot now. it will be a process to get this past by the house as well. host: assuming that happens, i imagine the white house also making an effort i'm getting the reconciliation bill done and the budget done. can you talk about efforts behind the scene to make sure that happens? guest: they are trying to assuage progressive's like aoc who wants to move the reconciliation package first so they could get the conciliation deal before they passed the senate infrastructure bill. behind the scenes, that means lots of phone calls with progressives and moderates trying to keep the process going. lots of reach out to people like

kyrsten sinema and joe manchin, who have been -- who are the top send moderates, to make sure they stay on the same page and they don't derail any progress, but so far they feel like this is something they can bring to voters next year and say we accomplished this -- washington can work, so don't throw us out of the congressional majority, because they are really facing an uphill battle to keep control of the house and the senate next year. host: when it comes to issues of covid, what does the administration plan to continue on doing -- i know they touted at least a 70% desire from the president to make that happen as far as people with one vaccination, but what happens behind the scenes as we continued to hear stories about the delta variant? guest: i think they are pretty concerned because a lot of corporate america and the business world had wanted to go back to the office in september,

and a lot of companies are scaling back or delaying that because they are still waiting to see how widespread the delta variant wreaks havoc in america. we are already seen a number of stories about hospitals -- ic units fill up with covid patients. the white house is very concerned, obviously, about this. it could hurt the economic recovery, and also, just for matters of life and death. i think they would want to continue to urge americans to socially distant, and also -- distance, and also to follow state and local regulations on this, but there is also a criticism of the cdc, which is part of the biden administration in terms of how they define levels of high community transition on covid. when you look at the map, it is orange and red, when a number of states have high vaccination rates, and not high death rates.

so, i think there is pressure on the cdc to get their act together to make sure they don't go too far in terms of defining what significant or high transmission of covid is right now. host: we are in the summer months right now. as far as the administration's efforts, what is top of that list? what of the things does the administration up to focus on during these months? guest: i think ransomware, improving the nation's cybersecurity security is a top priority. you saw biden meet with vladimir putin a couple of months ago in geneva, product -- trying to hold him to promises that he made, or least hinted that he would get control of this ransomware situation, and i think managing the afghan pullout, which is basically done, but we see the taliban

take widespread control of the country except for the capital and a few provinces -- you look at the map in the new york times, which i hope you will highlight this morning, it is terrifying in terms of how much of afghanistan the taliban-controlled. , so if they start threatening couple or other -- kabul or many other major cities, let it glower wondering whether the administration will do more airstrikes to help the afghan national army to prevent the fall of afghanistan. host: to that previous point, you wrote a recent story taken a look at the biden administration when it came to hiring the national security council. can you give viewers a taste of what you found out there? guest: the trump administration had kind of hollowed out the national security council, firing people that were well-respected in their jobs, and the biden administration has cleaned up in terms of adding more direct focus on climate and

humanitarian affairs. they have actually increased staffing by 20%, that is from 300 to 352 370 from the start of the administration. they want to use the council as a coordination -- policy-making body, so they want to get a hand le on what is the best policy in driving foreign policy and driving foreign policy for getting lots of wins for the biden administration. under jake sullivan, they seem to be doing a good job. we have nothing that many concrete wins so far right now. host: you can find that at a political -- political side in writing from daniel lippman. two are for your time. guest: thank you. host: back to your calls take a

look at trust in government when it comes to covid policy. independent line. dan, massachusetts. caller: i have a whole litany of reasons why not to trust the government specifically with covid, but i could consume an entire show if you wanted me to talk about all different reasons why not to trust the government. as far as covid goes, one of the early studies they did was how long covid lasts on different surfaces. that was the first lie. that is a test that does not take very long, and they came out and lied, saying that the virus lasted a long time on different surfaces. that is the beginning. then, hydroxychloroquine, super effective virus killer -- kills the virus very safe, world health organization, proven,

safe drug, used worldwide at a dime a pill. our doctors here, some doctors have decided to look the other way. i think a lot of doctors should be held for involuntary manslaughter. these people on tv talking about not taking hydroxychloroquine, and it kills you -- is another virus killing drugs that the cdc and everyone turns their head. we have hospitals stuffing ventilators down people's throats before giving them a super effective, cheap drug. host: that is dan in georgetown, massachusetts. susan, sarasota, florida. democrats line. caller: i cannot believe some of the nonsense i am hearing from many of your callers. i remember the day my mother found out she could give me a polio vaccination.

she ground my hand and marched me down to the bus stop. could not get me there fast enough, got on the bus. had to change buses, got on another bus, and marched me into that clinic and we got the shot. host: why do you trust the government on covid policy, do -- though? caller: i do. host: why? caller: i had my two shots. what i don't trust is ron desantis good i live in florida and he does not want to give any power to local school districts to decide what is best for their families and their kids, and i wouldn't trust him as far as i could throw him. host: what do you base your level of trust on the federal government on. caller: i just told you i do believe it. i have vaccinations. host: i know you told me that, i am asking you why you believe it? caller: because it is true.

how many millions of people have had this vaccine already? and has any of them died from it? has anyone of them been seriously ill from it? no. ? isn't that evidence enough? host: ron in new york. democrats line. caller: -- in any case, the fact is the media and government have not been released inaccurate information at all about the number of people that have gotten seriously ill and died. it has been estimated most conservatively that within the united states so far, approximately 6000, and in europe approximately 12,000 people have died. this is a very conservative estimate. it could be something like 10

times the number, and you don't hear anything about this from the media or the government. host: where did you get those numbers from? caller: i heard that mentioned on wbai in new york, just about the only true source of media. by the way, i think c-span is fair and honest, not typical of the media. also, the previous caller had mentioned about the inexpensive and very effective treatments of hydroxychloroquine and -- that have generally not been used in the united states because the government is putting pressure on pharmaceutical companies to put all the emphasis on the vaccine, and much more expensive treatment methods for the future. host: ok.

let's hear from another new yorker and surely, new york. independent line. helen. caller: this is helen. i trust in god and who god tells you to believe, and also my brother-in-law died from this when it first came out. you guys should put a thing on people who lost people. host: why do not trust the federal government or any form of government when it comes to this? caller: well, i do certain -- let's put it this way. i am an independent. i don't trust a lot of the republicans because of what has happened, lies, and all that other stuff, and they keep on blaming joe biden and mexicans coming in with the virus -- we are all god's children. it is in the bible. host: let's go down the line. do you trust the federal government when it comes to covid policy? caller: some of them. host: what you mean by that?

caller: well, i am an independent. i do. i trust god first. host: what about your state and local government? caller: i put a lot of trust in it because as i said i lost my brother-in-law. host: one of the people on the shows yesterday and you have seen a lot and mentioned a lot during this time, dr. anthony fauci talking about vaccines and the idea of vaccine mandates. here is what he had to say. [video clip] >> vaccine mandates -- we know the government is not going to do vaccine mandates, but are you going to create the conditions to allow private business and other entities to do vaccine mandates? is that the next phase of what the federal response can do? dr. fauci: absolutely, chuck. as you know, and i have said it several times, you will not see the federal government mandating

vaccines for the country, but i am almost certain -- in fact i am certain, that as soon the fda fully approves the vaccines that are now under emergency authorization -- chuck: i don't mean to interrupt, but when is that? dr. fauci: no one wants to get ahead of the fda because they are independent, and there does not want to be any concern we are influencing them. i hope, but i don't predict, it will be within the next few weeks, within the month of august. if that is the case, you will see the empowerment of local enterprises giving mandates -- colleges, universities, places of business, a whole variety, and i strongly support that. the time has come where we have to go the extra step to get people backs and needed -- vaccinated. you want to persuade them, that

is good, and i believe some people on their own, once it gets approved as full approval, will go ahead and get vaccinated. but for those that do not want, i believe mandates at the local level need to be done. host: one last caller. hello, you are on. caller: i do not trust vaccines, and here is why. i am one of seven siblings, nine in the family, the middle child had polio at birth. none of us were ever inoculated. no one else in the family or community contracted polio. i went into the navy when i was 17, boot camp, got a battery of injunctions, some with no numbers, no names. some made you unable to march so you were able to walk in rough stuff. i went from 150 pounds to 240

pounds in one year. no explanation. they said it's because you are getting regular sleep and regular meals. i was raised in the country, eight regular, slept regular. so, i don't trust these inoculations for those reasons. host: that is earnest, west guests joining us, you will hear from the competitive enterprise institute, clyde wayne crews will talk about the size, scope, and cost of federal regulations. later on, eviction lab's anne kat alexander discusses evictions and rental assistance programs during the covid-19 pandemic. those conversations coming up on ""washington journal." [captioning performed by the

national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> in june robert gottlieb, the man who has been the final editor of all of robert caro's books wrote an essay, the focus was on john gunter, and he wrote 900 pages 75 years ago called inside usa. in his opinion, gunter was probably the best reporter america ever had. we wanted to find out more about this publishing success story, so we called a freelance writer to talk with him about his 1992 book called "inside: the biography of john gunter." >> listen at c-span.org/podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. >> c-span's shop.org is our

store with a collection of c-span products and browse to see what is new. your purchase will support our nonprofit organizations. you can also get the contact information for members of congress and the biden administration. >> "washington journal" continues. host: this is clyde wayne crews, vice president of policy at competitive enterprise here to talk about the cost of federal regulations. thank you for joining us. guest: thank you for having us. host: can you talk about the political point of view, and who backs you financially? guest: in 1984, you could categorize us as libertarians. we are nonpartisan.

we focus on the regulatory state and budget issues, wars, social issues. we tend to focus on the regulatory enterprise. we treat regulation as a hidden tax. we see what the fiscal budget is and we see what the tax is but we really don't see regulations. the free enterprise system needs to be supported. host: to the idea of regulations, you put out a yearly report, 10,000 commandments looking at regulations what drives this report for you? guest: i studied economics and groups were working on tax and budget. every year you had folks talking about joe biden's budget. we didn't have anything for the regulatory state.

i got the idea back in the 1990's to just compile what we could about the federal regulatory state. you can't manage an economy and you don't necessarily know what the cost of regulations are, but we have to do our best to try. we look at the numbers and regulations and costs, economic, health and safety, social regulations, paperwork, privacy, even the infrastructure bill we are debating, huge regulatory impact from that. we try to compile that and put something together that is similar to historical tables in with the federal budget looks like. it is difficult because a lot of regulations increasingly are not getting written down. you have congress passing maybe a few dozen laws. regulators put over 2000 regulations all across the spectrum.

there are also guidance documents, circulars, directives, all sorts of things in use right now that are much more difficult to pin down. there was a big change from the trump administration to the biden administration and tracking all that stuff. i would hope that given that we are nonpartisan, i would hope we could come to agreement on ways of tracking, managing, and disclosing the regulations. host: is there a street-level example that you can give to viewers as far as something how they can understand how regulations impact cost, at least to the taxpayer? guest: energy efficiency regulations are one. conservation is something that we lower carbon intensity over time as capitalism progresses. capitalism creates wealth but it also creates health and safety

and all the good things that we want. to the extent -- we never say there is no regulation. your choice is going to be, is it going to be political discipline? is it better to have washington make these decisions or should competitors play a role? just as a quick example, i work at the food and drug administration. we had this idea, what a great idea it is if we say we need to have -- we have to ban health claims. what might happen and we can debate this, what we are going to emphasize his taste, convenience, portability. you can have an unintended effect on how quality goes down and not up as a result. so regulations not taking into

consideration competition. they have downstream business customers, and other forces raised against misbehaving. i get concerned when we are going to create an industry and name it for health and safety with government control. it is a healthy debate we need to have but too often it gets decided in favor of the government taking over. host: we will talk about that as we go forward with clyde wayne crews at the competitive enterprise. (202) 748-8001 four republicans, (202) 748-8000 four democrats. (202) 748-8001 for --(202) 748-8002 independents.

talking about electric vehicles, i will show you what he said and talk about the regulatory side. [video clip] pres. biden: the future of the automobile industry that is electric, battery, plug-in, hybrid, fuel cell electric, just electric. there is no turning back to the question is whether we will lead or fall behind in the race for the future. we are going to have to rely on other countries for the batteries. whether or not the job to build these vehicles and batteries are good paying union jobs, jobs with benefits and jobs to sustain continued growth for the middle class. host: what is the regulatory possibilities from that announcement? guest: i am a big fan of

electric vehicles and batteries, but what the administration wants to do is give them the push to make them the dominant technology. in free enterprise, it is not just a new product but all the array that has to go along with it, charging stations and so forth. he just said that battery technology has to be stressed. but if we go for the new infrastructure bill and put charging points and, as the technology changes, that very array of charging stations becomes obsolete very quickly. it is important not to plan this from the top down. i would love to get one of the new ford f-150 electric when it comes out next year. there are a lot of good advantages to having electric

vehicles but they need to evolve organically. in the colonial era, they would come up to the rocks and you would have to build the cities. now the cities are the rocks. smart cities, electric vehicles, opening things up in the states and localities and look to private property owners and say, not only should you locate the electrical vehicle charge stations, but he didn't mention that we need to extend a 5g which is a part of the infrastructure bill. why not talk to property owners, what can we do about expanding all of these new infrastructures that represent a proliferation of wealth for the future. that is exactly what they are discussing in this legislation, shove a bunch of money at the

wrong thing. are they going to have a kiosk? what does it mean? the best thing, you don't have to tell the grass to grow, just take the rocks off of it. that is a lot of with the infrastructure and electric charging stations. it has so many concurrent technologies. drones, automated vehicles, smart vehicles, all of these technologies need to work together. you have all of these companies and sectors that are regulated. in the infrastructure bill, we need to break that down, sec, federal trade commission, energy department, break down those across the network industries so that all of them can work

together. we shouldn't just be talking about charging stations and stop there. we need to talk about all the other technologies that are interrelated. it is really important. our whole system of government, part of the role is to make sure the property rights to make extended infrastructure and wealth possible are created and it is complex to do that. it is complex to expand these new technologies. but what we do when we have washington do it is we take away all the synergies and all of the energy. the agencies will be directing the rollouts and charging stations. host: let's hear from joe and lady lake, florida, republican line you are on with clyde wayne crews of the competitive enterprise institute.

go ahead. caller: thank you for your contributions. i wonder if you could comment more about the ideas of limited government, only when individuals based on competitions. i like those ideas. can you answer the question and how many congressmen can answer, every trillion dollars the government spends, sibley divided equally into the hundred million family unit bank accounts would mean each of us wakes up in the morning with $10,000. they have already spent one and $420 and on the way to $10 trillion. that would mean that and saw a

new deposit of $40,000. that's the question i would like to ask you and whether congress you think could answer. does it really matter who gets the first expenditure? can they answer the question that any money in my bank account that i spend is recirculated over 50 times in one year. host: thanks, joe. guest: i agree that yes, smaller government makes a big deferment. -- makes a big difference. what is it that expands resilience? joe is talking about how do we make sure individuals and households are the ones that are stable and resilient without having to depend on government

to allocate the trillions of dollars. with the job spin and the families plan, $620 being added. -- $6 trillion being added. you have choice, you can either have the federal government step in and make these moves to grow the economy or help people, sometimes they call it a reset but joe biden it build back better. i think we need a stronger debate that we should be strengthening resilience and households, because remember the covid crisis that we are going through now is the third national bailout crisis of the 21st century alone. so if we are now setting up in the infrastructure bill that is

increasing spending but increasing regulatory enterprise at the same time. you have these three bills and the alternative approach is how do we expand resilience at the household levels. one is letting people keep more of their money most definitely. the other is making sure that businesses have more. the infrastructure bill and the bailouts that you have letters coming from business associations: for bailouts. -- associations calling for bailouts. the other way of making this resilience more at the local level is in my view rather than the federal government doing most of these things to keep that at the state and local level.

dr. fauci and others were talking about letting it be on the state and local levels about mask mandates. in the regulatory debate, there is a great book from a former senator and the cbo reports this, there are over 750 billion grants going back to the states from the federal government. you have nearly a trillion dollars making it up to washington and going back to states for local services. all that will -- would it change and what joe was talking about, keeping the wealth at the household level. host: let's hear from bill in illinois, independent line. caller: i am curious as to why

nobody is talking about hydrogen powered cars. the electrical cars are going to put in extreme stress on our electric grid. guest: what i would say to that is i understand there are provisions for hydrogen cars but you are right that there is a push toward electric rather than hydrogen vehicles. we have to be careful because this is one of those technologies where you will see an article in the wall street journal saying this is on the cusp of breaking through. there are a lot of problems with hydrogen cars. they are not unsurmountable, but that gets to the point we want to make sure that whatever the intellectual energy, energy, whatever it is best directed to

is how we will get there and whether there is a race between electric cars and hydrogen cars good when the wright brothers invented the power flight -- cars. when the wright brothers invented the power flight, the problem wasn't the wings, it was the propellers. you had to come up with a propeller to make the plane stay in the air. you had private bicycle makers doing windtunnel tests while they were catapulting. you have to be careful about getting funding, especially when it is compulsory. unfortunately a lot of this is bipartisan. we will have new manufacturing hubs and labs. you end up pushing technology in a way that it might not go and you are getting the cart for the horse. all of this is destabilizing.

there are other things you can do. one is relaxing antitrust laws so companies can work together. you don't have government pick the winning racehorses to run around the track. instead you improve the tracks all of the horses can run faster on that same track. that is what you need to do with hydrogen. host: we have a viewer who makes the statement regulations protect the consumer and the environment from corporations. guest: i am glad somebody brought that up. it needs to be addressed. you can't just say, ok we want to protect these things and say government regulation is going to do that because it is not necessarily true. you have to make sure you don't put rules in place that prevent

the market from making things even safer. put it this way -- capitalism doesn't just create the wealth, the product of the service, and will live -- individualized matter and nobody can hurt anyone else but you have to develop the safety technology, insurance products, professional standards and all these other things that need to be done before it is released. in the free market, would we have nuclear power? i don't know. we had the price anderson act that gave immunity to nuclear power. if you invented a safety technology, maybe it works or maybe it doesn't, but they immunized safety equipment. one of the problems with regulation is it disrupts the normal process of creating the benefits along with the new

product, but it gets in the way and also fosters the notion that businesses, well, i let this regulation because if i can get this put in place, government will take the burden of liability off and also i will keep my competitors out. that is the problem you have with regulation, not just health and safety, but with privacy and standards like that. i sat at the top of this discussion, your choice is whether you are going to have political discipline or whether you want to explore and expand the competitive disciplinary process, which has a lot of elements. not just the company. they can have poll in washington and that is a different point --

pull in washington, but you have all the other stakeholders that have a role or something to say. you don't just get to run out and run wild under free enterprise but you always have to compare that with the regulatory state. health and safety, privacy standards, each one needs to look at very closely and make sure you are not messing things up with the regulatory interventions. host: in your report, and 2020 regulatory costs were 1.920 dollars and ended up being 9% of the u.s. gross domestic product. 40% of the federal government share of the economy for the $6 trillion covid. guest: it is a big number. i use the placeholder of $2

trillion based on a lot of things. this is one of the hopes i have with this report. there is something called the regulatory rights act where the federal government is supposed to be measuring itself. however, it doesn't do that. it is supposed to abide an aggregate cost and that hasn't happened in a quarter-century. the best we got from the federal government is that it will come from outside parties and academics, but the federal government used to do a 10 year look back. now it has been three years since that has been done. there are reports on regulatory costs and benefits that is way overdue. there is a lack of disclosure in terms of regulatory costs. i have a paper where i talk about these. i have seen estimates that would put the figure at twice the two

mill -- the $2 trillion. if you have this much regulation and nobody can put their finger on what it costs, what it tells us is that congress reminds us that they are supposed to be the lawmakers. unfortunately, i mentioned earlier there are a few dozen laws but thousands of regulation, congress delegates the regulatory power to agencies that it should not delegate. it exercises power itself it shouldn't exercise, like with the infrastructure bill, but delegates so much to agencies and we lose the connection. there is a lack of democratic accountability for the legislators because they can speak to them and say, i voted for a clean act but they can go to the chamber of congress and say the epa is out of control. to resolve that issue, you may

hate how much the federal government spends, but you can look right in the historical tables and see exactly how much the debt and deficit is and what the outlook is. you don't have that with regulations and that is what i hope to achieve that the federal government retakes its road to reporting and providing written a report. host: you can find that at the website of competitive enterprise institute. allen in maine, democrats line, go ahead. caller: i am an independent. host: go ahead. caller: clyde is clear that nash is clearly not an economist. in terms of the cost of regular regulatory costs, the costs are a fraction of the cost of

negative externality costs being dumped by corporate capitalist organizations on our world. for instance, exxon has imposed taxes, unseen corporate taxes, and our world to the extent that we are going to be burning up our world and our entire environment because of exxon not having regulated with respect to fossil fuel decimation of our planet. an interesting book that clyde might want to read is by an economist, william robinson, global capitalism and the crisis of humanity. global capitalism is an empire and the crisis of humanity is what has hit us now. host: that is allen in maine.

guest: i understand where alan is coming from. part of the problem we have is that regulations happen, but they don't always do the right thing. one of the things that happened a long time ago, any resources that were in development in government hands a century ago are still there. so i mentioned companies, and there is abuse. in a free market system and we can't go back and re-create what doesn't exist, but free market system would be under a different system of control where you couldn't just dump things into them. if you can dump things into the water and air, that's a problem.

but that is not a free enterprise system. it is a lack of defining property rights. that was a very young system historically speaking. it is difficult to get it right. copyrights just in terms of houses and so forth were difficult enough or river flows. it is very difficult now with respect to air and water shifts and with new technologies and infrastructures, who will own the infrastructure? ocean states, a lot of these things are very problematic, but they are not under capitalistic control. a lot of those things are under government control. it is a big debate. i don't think we would be fighting as much if we had basic terms. host: you can find the report online. the vice president of policy, clyde wayne cruz.

things for your -- crews, thanks for your time. host: we are going to talk about eviction lap's anne kat alexander joining us. and how kids will fare when they had back-to-school -- when they head back to school with annette anderson. those number stations coming up on “washington journal.” ♪ >> weekends on c-span2 are an intellectual feast peered all day saturday, events and people who explore our nation's past. on sunday, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books and authors. learn, discover, explore, weekends on c-span2.

♪ >> "washington journal" continues. host: our next anne kat guest is alexander, eviction lap's talking about evictions and rental assistance.

what does the lab do and who backs it? guest: we are a research lab within the department of sociology at princeton. we have researchers from a bunch of different fields. our main product is we have the largest freely available database of eviction rates in the country. but during the pandemic, we also made a couple of other resources available, including a tracker that shows how many evictions are being filed in the states and 31 cities paid we had a report card tracking what states were doing in terms of emergency housing during the pandemic. we have philanthropic funders that are supporting our work. host: if you go to the website of the eviction lab, as of this morning it says in six states and 31 cities, landlords have

called -- filed for about 6000 evictions last week. is all of this pandemic driven and what is behind it? guest: to put these numbers in context, in a typical year, we would file 3.7 million eviction cases. that is just an absolutely staggering number. in 2020, we estimated that about 1.5 million evictions were not filed through a combination of eviction moratoria and rent relief and other assistance that were coming out in states peered when you look at the 450,000 -- states. when you look at the 450,000 cases, most eviction cases are due to nonpayment of rent. when you are looking at that

450,000, most of them will be nonpayment of rent many of them will be pandemic driven because somebody couldn't it to work because their kids were out of school, job disappeared, people died, and those are people who are able to support their families once they have passed on. a lot of that 450,000 will be pandemic related a lot of it will be indicative of the housing crisis prior to the pandemic as well. host: if you want to ask questions with our guest anne , kat alexander , (202) 748-8000 four renters, (202) 748-8001 four landlords, and for all others (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003 and post on social

media. we saw a new eviction moratorium. how effective do you think that will be? guest: the effectiveness of the cdc moratorium has varied a lot from place to place. this was true even right when the moratorium was first put in place. it does not prevent eviction filings, but we anticipated there would be a chilling effect where a landlord would not filed to evict someone if they knew that person wouldn't be able to remove -- be removed from their home to begin with. we have seen that you're in some cases the number of evictions being filed are low, and in other places filings were closer to normal. so you'll find some parts of the country, the eviction moratorium is really keeping a lot of people housed.

in other parts of the country where the federal policy is still in effect, things maybe going along basically as normal. there are two counties in ohio that we have seen declare they will not be following the cdc eviction moratorium, even though they are within the counties that are impacted by the policy, because of a court ruling that had declared the prior moratorium unconstitutional. there will be other counties making less formal designation who are -- designations, who are just not found the federal policy. host: the new policy was to get the federal government to get money to the states and them getting that to the people good representative cori bush was here at the capitol after the first moratorium past and making an advocacy for putting a new

one in. it is what she said and i will get you to respond. [video clip] >> if the court strikes it down, what is your next move? >> that is why i wanted to make sure, and we have been saying it nationally that we have to do the work now to get this money out. we have to do the work to make sure our states and local governments are able to release this money, get this money out into the hands of the people who need it most we are telling tenants and landlords to go online or show up at the clinic happening around the country and apply for this money and for the local government and states, please get this money out. this has to happen. in 60 days, we may not have it. we are pushing hard to make sure people apply. we are hearing locally where people aren't applying and we

understand there have been barriers to people applying and those resources being moved. we are working out those kinks. host: the way you look at this, why do you think it has been difficult to get that money to those who need it? guest: first and foremost, there is a major difficulty that the states, cities, counties were starting almost from scratch. we did not have an existing social safety net that you could just put some more money in to keep people housed. admittedly, this money was appropriated for states back in december. it has been more than six months it is no excuse for how long it has taken. it states and cities this money was coming, and they had the money from the cares act as kind of a practice run. we have seen some places like

harris county in houston, they learned from the cares act money and have a better program that is distributed more than half of their funds. it is not everywhere you are seeing these problems. that is the structural problem, the lack of an existing safety net. in terms of individual programs why they are not getting money out, there are places that have strenuous documentation diamonds that might be difficult for tenants or landlords to complete and then maybe landlord nonparticipation. this was flagged in research as a problem that program administrators identified as stumbling blocks that landlords not wanting to participate, which is a little baffling since this is money that would clear

up to 12 months of rent debt owed to them and pay up to three months of perspective rent. this is what is going to make the landlord whole. in some places, landlords just aren't participating in the program. host: could you clarify for the money that does make it to the person who applies or it, is it required that that money must go to landlords for payment of rent? guest: this is for payment of rent or utilities, depending on the program and what money it is. in the vast majority of cases, payouts are made directly to landlords. the tenant never sees the money. we call it rent relief or rental assistance or assistance for renters, but it really is a bailout of landlords, which is important. these are people who need to get paid too, but this is money

going directly to landlords in the vast majority of cases. host: we will start with kaz in florida. you are on with our guest anne , kat alexander. caller: thank you for taking my call. i spent my entire life in military, etc. i worked since a little girl. i always worked. i think what happened -- i do feel bad with people and the covid and i understand that. plenty of jobs are out there. they can't get workers today. i think people got to use to the freebies. we can't keep giving freebies. i have to pay my taxes too. people need to get back to work, and now we can do it.

wear your mask and garrett sanitizers. it is happening -- and do your sanitizers. host: ms. alexander, go ahead. guest: first of all, yes, even though in a lot of laces people are able to go back to work, a lot of this debt accrued in 2020 and in the early months of 2021, and even if you miss a couple months of rent, a lot of renters are paying 50% or more of their income to rent. if you miss a couple months of rent earlier in the pandemic, that debt hasn't just gone away, but it may have been impossible to get back and pay that off. we have seen major problems with unemployment. we have seen problems with childcare and schools not being

open. they are preventing people from going back to work, and these have contributed to this debt growing. and at this point, we are not looking as much towards, you know, this only covers three months of perspective rent. this is really about clearing out the rent that people accrued, through no fault of their own, during the pandemic when unemployment was so high, when benefits were not really reaching people, when people were not able to work. host: ms. alexander, if eventually we see the evaporation of the moratorium, what's the potential impact, particularly those behind on rent? guest: what we have been saying is the eviction moratorium and rental assistance are two sides of the same coin. an eviction moratorium without the assistance just pushes back

when the bill will be due. it gives people time to get stuff together. if there is no assistance that comes through, that nonpayment of rent and eviction will be pushed further into the future while that debt snowballs and becomes ever harder to pay off, which is why it is so important for the rental assistance to reach people for this eviction moratorium expires. that is why in a lot of states you are seeing instead of the immediate end of the moratorium for those states that have maintained eviction moratoria to the months, instead of just pulling the curtain off and saying, let's go back to normal, they are staging it and saying, for instance, in oregon, if you apply, you have a 60-day window for your eviction cases pause to wait for your rental assistance application to be evaluated and

for your landlord to get money. if we were to lift the moratorium without allowing more time for that rental assistance to get out the door, that can be very devastating for the hundreds of thousands of families. host: the wall street journal recently wrote an editorial saying that every eviction and threat and with eviction. tenants can leave on their own and they can work out a payment plan but some point the housing market must transition back to normality. the rent will come due and they will have to work it out. if the moratorium is extended, payments will stack up and it will be a bigger problem when music stops to the point of them making it out, what does the data show? typically, how willing -- how much willingness is there between both parties to work it out? guest: i want to start with one

line at the beginning of that which was that we have to go back to normal. that's not true. in fact, we can't go back to normal. and a normal year we would be looking at 3.7 million eviction cases. we would be the a completely unenforceable -- and unaffordable housing -- an unaffordable housing. we cannot go back to that normal . we are seeing across the country states and cities saying, actually, we are not owing to go back to normal. instead of going back to the normal eviction machine of courts, we will institute the eviction deferral program where we find more workable outcomes, more productive outcomes for both landlords and tenants, like mediation, with wraparound assistance wherever landlord and tenant have a dispute about $500 of missed rent, that dispute

doesn't and with a renter losing its home but ends with people coming together, deciding we will apply for rental assistance that will cover this rough patch and the landlord gets their money and the renter to stay in their home. just to that point really quickly, we don't need to go back to normal. it would be really devastating if we did. to your question about how landlords are doing, this is kind of an open question. it is a real mixed bag. if you look across the country, eviction filing are still below what we will expect to see in a normal year. a lot of this will be because of various eviction moratoria. a lot of it will be because there is this promise of really significant amount of rent relief on the horizon. i am sure it is landlords doing the decent thing and working

things out with tenants, creating a payment plan, applying for rental assistance with the tenant, that sort of thing. but it is really all responses under the sun and we certainly get a lot of emails from renters who are saying that there landlords are not behaving in a way that would be ethical, in a way that federal policy is leading landlords to act and instead are filing eviction cases are illegally evicting or refusing to participate in rental assistance, doing anything they can to get renters out. host: anne kat alexander. jerry, in new jersey, go ahead. caller: i have heard this eviction moratorium is illegal and unconstitutional. i don't understand that.

if you could explain why it is illegal and unconstitutional. also, i just wonder, does the cdc have to do with disease or eviction's? i am very confused. is it unconstitutional and the cdc eviction freeze, i thought they were disease-related and not eviction related. could you please explain why it is illegal and unconstitutional and how does the cdc have say in eviction freezes. host: we will let our guest answer your question. guest: the eviction moratorium was lamented i the cdc under their power to, you know, prevent disease. and eviction's, they have been

multiple studies looked into and determine -- evictions, they have been multiple studies looked into and determined that being evicted could transmit covid it to other families. when you are evicted, you have limited options. most are not evicted and immediately moving into other housing. as far as we can tell with the little data out there because this problem is really understudied, families that are evicted either double up or go to a shelter, doubling up weaning moving into another family, going to a shelter, living out of their car. all of these are challenging conditions for social distancing, wearing clean masks, washing hands. so the cdc is moving to prevent the spread of disease through people being removed from their

homes. as to the constitutionality, that is really an open question. this is working its way through the court. there have been mixed decisions from district court. some say yes, some say no. it is worth pointing out that put out -- that when brett kavanaugh, justice kavanaugh, put out his thoughts on the eviction moratorium in june, this decision has been very widely spoken about. the matter at hand was whether to immediately vacate the eviction moratorium while the case continued to wind its way through the courts. the four liberal justices said the cdc moratorium stands and four justice said this is unconstitutional. then brett kavanaugh said this is unconstitutional, but there's

only a few weeks left and it's really important that we have an orderly distribution of rental assistance, so i will let it stand for now. but congress needs to confirm that this is what they want. it is worth pointing out that congress did extend the cdc eviction moratorium one time over the winter. so they have already confirmed at that point that they felt the cdc eviction moratorium was a good idea. but right now, there have been split decisions and it is kind of up in the air. if congress were to either reaffirm the cdc eviction moratorium that they did in the winter or pass a new eviction moratorium, the cares act blocked filings which we shirts shows is more -- which research shows is more effective at

preventing evictions, if they were to reaffirm it, it would make the situation more clear-cut. host: from janet in michigan, a landlord or you are on. go ahead. caller: as a landlord, i have six different renters. i only had one that had trouble and needed rental assistance, which she did get. i was listening to a previous caller said that people have gotten used to the free handout and it's time to get back to work. like this is all over with now here this is not over with now. we have the delta variant. people are refusing to get vaccinations. it is spreading. there are people who have issues with childcare. we know that. the other thing is if everything is open and everything is safe,

white as the secretary of state office closed? why is -- why is the secretary of state office closed. why are the courthouse is closed? my mother went to the secretary of state and filled out the wrong thing and had to come back for a different appointment. it is not over and i don't want to see people thrown into the streets. as someone else was saying, it's more dangerous for these people to be in the streets, spread more covid. and lastly, when we had the mortgage crisis, they bail out the banks. look at that -- look where that got us. people ended up homeless paired the bankers bought the houses. the rent went through the roof. part of the reason why rent is so high and i think it is good they are bailing out the tenants

and the landlords. host: janet in michigan giving her perspective as a landlord. guest: i completely agree. the pandemic isn't over. school hasn't started, and we don't know yet what school is going to look like in terms of that childcare piece, allowing people to go back to work. eviction lab research has found that areas that have the highest rates of eviction filings also have the lowest rates of vaccination. due to underinvestment probably in those areas, and that is making it more important for us to maintain the policies that are going to keep people housed while we ride out the end of this pandemic. host: another landlord from new mexico joins us, jessie, go ahead. caller: good morning. so i was wondering from this

guest, do you think it's important for people to invest in commercial real estate and multifamily housing? guest: i mean, that's sort of an open -- a big question. housing needs to be built. so somebody will need to build it. whether that is individuals, large corporations, the federal government, you know, there's a lot of places to discuss about who should be investing in multifamily housing, but somebody has to. host: does this lead to a larger policy discussion about the affordability and availability of affordable housing and where does the federal government intersect with that? guest: to me, yeah, i mean we need more investment in housing. right now, part of what makes housing so unaffordable is there

are not enough units. the housing coalition has a great report every year that shows how many affordable units we are missing and it is a really substantial number. the federal government is going to play a role in getting the affordable housing built. absolutely we need to have significantly more investment in housing, whether that's from the federal government, states, cities, private corporations. host: on the line for others from delaware, patricia, hello. caller: i am just trying to understand the situation a little better. i don't quite understand why there are so many people that are behind in their rent if they became unemployed, especially getting the extra benefits.

maybe they had to wait a little bit for the unemployment check, but that would be retroactive and it would go back and they would get a large check and i would think they would pay their landlord. a lot of people making more than they do when they work. i'm confused and maybe you could shed a little light on that, with all the benefits that people are getting. guest: yeah, so some unblemished checks were delayed and some people never got them -- yet so some on a planet delayed and some people never got them -- yeah, so some unemployment checks were delayed and some people never got them. so that rent when you've got families paying 50% or 70% of their income to rent and now they have these additional other expenses, like medical expenses,

expenses of figuring out how they are going to have their children looked after when the schools are closed -- these create these enormous shortfalls that have lasted until now because we are only just now stepping in, and by we i mean emergency rental assistance programs across the country, only now stepping into patch over the gaps that formed early on. there were these benefits that came out, like stimulus checks, expanded unemployment, and that was very important for keeping families afloat, but that wasn't enough money to just fix the problem entirely, which is where the $46 billion that congress has set aside for rental assistance comes in to patch over those gaps. host: host: we see this current

moratorium set to expire. what do you think about the funds for more -- for more funds to get there before the moratorium expires? guest: the most recent numbers that we have from the treasury department, unless they dropped after i logged on, i from june 30. $30,000 spent for utility access -- assistance. more is getting out the door every month, but i would seriously doubt that there would be some kind of huge breakthrough and really get the vast bulk of the money out the door by october. not to mention as representative bush mentioned in that clip that he played closer to the top of the show.

the eviction moratorium may not last the full 60 days. there have been devastating outcomes. rep. kinzinger: eviction lab. or -- host: eviction lab.org, if you want to check that out. thank you for being with us. every week on this program, we take a look at the aspect of the covid pandemic. we will turn our attention to the schools. anderson from johns hopkins university. we will talk about what to expect when it comes to covid. we will have that conversation when washington journal continues. ♪

>> in june, robert gottlieb, the man who has been the final editing of the robert caro books . the focus was on john gunther and the book that he wrote 75 years ago called inside usa. gunther was probably the best reporter -- that america ever had. we wanted to find out more about this success story, so we called canadian freelance writer to talk with him about his 1992 book called inside, the biography of john gunther. >> on this episode, listen at c-span.org/podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

>> c-spanshop.org is the c-span online story. a collection of products. your purchase will support our nonprofit operations and you have time to order the congressional directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration. >> washington journal continues. host: every week at this time we take a look at an aspect of the covid-19 pandemic. parents are getting ready to send their kids back to school. joining us is annette anderson. she is with the center for safety and health in schools. for what we know about the delta variant and reports that we have seen, what is school going to look like, going back?

guest: there is still an optimism that school will look as normal as it possibly can. they have thrown a little bit of a curve ball into the situation, but there has been a lot of work on the parts of schools and districts across the country to prepare for the majority of our population. we do not just have one variant. we have multiple variance. -- variants. schools are thinking about whether to offer hybrid education again. what we are seeing now are those that had earlier deadlines extending those because parents have expressed concerns about the presence of these variants

in the schools. host: we have heard about protection equipment for schools changing. how much of that has been going on, leading up to what we are expecting this fall? guest: some have made it a priority. a lot of facilities that have needed upgrading have gotten it over the summer months. there will be some upgrading in the fall. many students will not have those additional upgrades to their requirement yet. trying to figure out how to the sin down so much money in a record period of time.

he should be thinking about how learning can happen outside the classroom as well. learning does not only happen in a classroom. what you have seen is that parents have put together themselves that when they felt that their options were not strong enough -- parents and leading the conversation about what they want public education to look like. you will not see as many of them , but some of them will continue. as you see the delta variant, they are being very careful in schools, to think about how to allow students to go through the hallways, up and down stairwells , to go through cafeteria spaces. it is important for schools to be mindful, that all of this will be a watch and see moment for the foreseeable future,

until we can figure out how to get a handle on what we know. also what it means. host: she is a deputy director for the safety and health the -- health of schools. if you have a question, call (202) 748-8000. (202) 748-8001 for parents. (202) 748-8002 (202) 748-8002 for teacher --(202) 748-8002 for teachers. what are we going to see? guest: you are seeing across the country like in arkansas -- they

just had this conversation about whether they can enforce a ban on mask mandates. even in legislatures, there is a reconsideration. this has become a political hot button. there is a lot about the -- about whether they have to wear masks. by and large, what you are starting to see is that people want the option to be able to do that. you will see more as they continue to mutate. it will become a much more prominent feature. host: when it comes to the vaccine side of it, whether it be for students or teachers, what are you seeing, as far as the potential? guest: what we are seeing is

most of the states have already given teachers priority for vaccines, so teachers from march had already gotten priority before the biden administration stepped in. many said that they wanted teachers to be prioritized so they could get back to instruction. we have a couple conundrums. you would have to get a third vaccine. we think that there might be a little bit of hesitancy. there is some hesitancy overall about getting the vaccine. there might be other reasons for not getting the vaccine. we know that right now, students under the age of 12 are not yet eligible, although we expect in

the fall, a vaccine might be available for those students. we still have a wide swath who are not eligible. host: what about if a parent has an older student who does not want to get a vaccine because of religious grounds or philosophical reasons? guest: this is where districts have learned to listen to what parents are wanting. this is what the pandemic taught parents. they have a lot of power when it comes to deciding how they would like to see education happening. they are concerned about getting the vaccine, so they would apply for a religious exemption. districts have to make it possible because of a family

issue or a religious issue. host: we have a parent on the line. this is brad for our guest, and not anderson. caller: good morning. i have a son attending technical school. my concern is, when you look at k-12 education, those students are localized. technical schools and universities draw from a larger region and sometimes multistate. sometimes even internationally. in the state of georgia, the policy today is, i cannot ask you if you have been vaccinated. i cannot mandate that he be vaccinated. the notion of wearing a mask is up in the air. how is it possible that we move forward?

there is no plan or right answer. all i can do is shrug. it is a different problem set in the k-12 education. guest: i think it applies to our children. one is society in general, we have had a lot of competing ideas about what we are supposed to do. one reason why parents are so distrustful is because we have not had collaborative effort about how we are communicating to families, what they should do. you are right to raise the question about how you should protect your child, whether he is 9, 19, or 20. you are still a parent. that is ok. i think what you are going to need to do is stay on top of the

technical institute and ask them repeatedly for guidance. guidance continues to shift. it is important as schools reopen that we get on the same page about what we should be doing with regards to masking and with the vaccine. we have to send a coherent message. it is why so many parents decided not to send their children back into the schools in the spring, when they reopened, particularly in the northeast. it was because they were getting competing messages, still. we need to have better coordination, but also with these advocacy organizations that speak for a wide number of individuals. host: we will hear from byron.

caller: good morning. my question is, how did -- if the test has been recalled, how is this even reality? thank you. guest: i'm not sure. if you could repeat your question. host: we have lost him, but we will go on to a call from hawaii. >> i am calling you -- he probably discussed this before, but not on this show. several scientists have been big advocates. a couple months ago, they said they would advocate about $50

billion to go to scale on these rapid antigen test to make it so that they could give a bunch of them to each family, the schools -- i do not know how they were going to do it. even a couple over now, but they have never really gotten out there. even the company themselves and the drugstores are saying they are not selling them because nobody is buying them because they are kind of expensive. host: our guest is an expert on education matters. how does this relate? caller: in other words, this is the elephant in the room, in terms of how to keep the children and teachers safe, whether they are vaccinated or not with the variant. there is a guy named eric coble

that your professor may know about that has been advocating. a harvard professor also says that the only way to be sure is to allow parents to have a testing in the home two to three times a week. guest: i think he raised another great point. there has to be more communication between schools and family. right now we are heading into a new school year. we do not know whether or not we are expecting a policy around vaccination. i think that parents are going to have to ask.

we are kind of building the plane, while we are flying it. we need to make sure that we are getting -- i think there is an assumption that once you have the vaccine that you do not need to be tested for covid. there are breakthrough cases. schools will have to figure out what those policies will look like and they need to do that and communicate it clearly, regularly, and often to parents about what this will look like for students. if students had to be tested, they will have to have temperatures checked in the fall. every parent needs to know what to expect. i do agree with you that we need some clarity. this is where federal agencies can be very helpful in providing

guidelines that are consistent across the country. while they are not regulatory, come if they would allow parents to see them and understand what the process should look like, it also helps schools to have something to point to to say this is where we are at this level. we want to make sure that there is a cohesiveness about how this is happening across the country. host: you mentioned a virtual academy. can you explain what that is? guest: i see -- i think you see them popping up all across the country. there are virtual academy's statewide. those schools have had a large push of families that have decided not to go back to in person learning.

also places like north carolina where a superintendent was able to set up virtual high schools for students to have that option as well. you see some variations, whether it be k-12 or others. you see iterations of this happening. some felt the virtual learning was an opportunity for their children to thrive. they are not rushing back to in person learning for many reasons. there has been a surge in african-american families choosing to homeschool. those families are adapting and looking into these virtual options. it is important to realize that those who offered these are now extending the deadline to sign up for them in places.

in places where they decided they wanted to open this up and continue to have this option. they saw because of the variance that they needed that. i think we will continue to see hybrid learning and virtual learning being a part of education, moving forward. it will look different. through the next year, i think we will continue to refine what this can look like. i think it is a great opportunity for innovation. those of us in the reformed business, talking about how we have not provided as many options to parents as we should -- this option is allowing that to take place. host: this is kathy. good morning. caller: good morning. thank you for your comments.

the question that i have, really quick -- i wanted to understand how the schools stayed open, mostly during the pandemic. how did the private schools do so well? also, when we gave the teachers first in line to get the shots and spent funds on remodeling schools -- after all of that was done -- it seems like the teachers that got the shots made the choice, whether they wanted the shot or not, based on their safety because they knew that they were eventually going back into the classroom. i do not understand why a teacher would be concerned if i got a shot or did not. all of that should have been decided.

the last thing is, the cyber school. if the teacher started -- if the parents started going to cyber school, with the money follow the student? it will cost something for those teachers -- for the parents to become the teachers. host: all those questions, we will let our guest answer. guest: those are great questions. thank you for joining us this morning. your question about the facility. one thing that we know is that many buildings that are urban -- those buildings are old. many are over 100 years old. it is not easy to update those systems, as it is, it may be a newer building. a number of urban districts that serve our most vulnerable students -- this is a process.

it is not as easy as some of those older buildings. there are classrooms filled with 30 students or more per class. the notion of social distancing is something that remains to be seen, as we head back. the cdc has gone back and forth on recommendations. the older buildings have not been tested to see how safely they can accommodate students and still socially distance. that is something that people are looking back, coming back to school in the fall. teachers are trying to figure it out. we will be having a lot of different conversations.

also thinking about the spaces where students are passing each other in hallways and stairwells where there are large numbers of students congregating in the gems and cafeterias. -- gyms and cafeterias. we have to think about what that looks like for the foreseeable future. schools are not equipped to do large scale testing. independent schools have much larger, spacious campuses. he saw many independent schools work able to quickly pivot because they had newer buildings and could space out more. sometimes they look like college campuses because they are so beautiful. i think it is different for the outcome of those students that it was for public schools in

older buildings. it is not apples to apples in that way. around the vaccine mandate, i think most teachers have gotten the vaccine. 90% of teachers have gotten it. what you are also seeing is that there are a number of teachers who, for whatever reason, have not does -- have decided to not get the vaccine. we have to figure out, how can those teachers continue to be accommodated? teachers have worked so hard this past year. they have not had a break. we have asked them to pivot from one decision to the next. they have gone into a whole new way of thinking. there is a lot of opportunity there.

we need to continue about how to use this, particularly for most vulnerable students. how are we going to accommodate the needs? we know that they will be handing out assessments. some people have been wailing about it and other people are saying it is fake news. we also have to do some things around emotional security. we need to figure out whether we need to be deploying more school counselors to support our students, as they transition back.

they have been through a traumatic period. make no mistake that most are thriving because they have had excellent teachers. thank you for calling. host: this is debbie. caller: good morning. my question is, why don't they offer remote education to the college students anymore? i have some friends who are professors and the answer i received was the funding. they do not get money if the students are not in the classroom. i know that my daughter was on the dean's list twice, so she is thriving. can you answer that question? guest: what i would say quickly is that a lot of the institutions that pivoted to online learning -- they want to

bring students back to campus, so that they can have a more fool campus -- full campus experience. they want students to be able to engage in a lot of activity that they were able to pre-pandemic. there are many online institutions that offer in person learning that are still offering some online classes, but by and large, there is a push that we get back as much as possible to what we had considered normal. for those students who are learning in person before, it is a desire to get back to that, this fall. host: a recent op-ed of yours called for a blue-ribbon commission to take a look at these issues. he probably talked about a lot of things, but what else would you like to see investigated? guest: i think that we need a

blue-ribbon commission because there is too much happening that does not align. one agency is saying that we should go this way and one agency says we should go that way. it is important that we have one, cohesive, coherent message. before these messages go out, we need to make sure that people are getting the same message at the same time. this is why we have so many parents distrustful that schools know how to reopen safely. there is a lot of question about what the fall will look like. there is a lot of question around what safe and healthy schools will look like in the fall. it will help to prioritize what schools should be focused on and

one, clear, cogent message that all parents can look to, staff can look to come on how to move forward. we are starting to have some development of best practices that happen to come out of certain districts. that is great, but i think parents want to be able to wrap their minds around what message is coming from the government. that is why you saw so many parents making sure that they stayed home. you saw a reaction from parents because they did not trust the information. particularly, students in most vulnerable communities. we have a message that we will have to send that schools are safe. that is where we are seeing the

deepest potential learning loss. it is important for us, that we have done everything that we can do and we are not sending competing and confusing messages. a blue-ribbon commission would help to guide us and help us think about what some of these best practices are, post-pandemic. what will public education look like? students can go in person to learn two to three days a week, but they can also go off-campus. those are things that we need to be investigating. those are things that we need to think about. the blue-ribbon commission p -- should be looking into that. host: fran, good morning. go ahead. caller: thank you very much.

my question is, as a long-term teacher, i have been concerned about the fact that in mathematics, children are pushed along, grade to grade. you see any possibility of more flexibility in math placement? i hope it would continue in the future, as so many children, are unfortunately getting behind in their math progress because they did not get it the first time, or whatever the issue was. caller: thank you for that question. you are right. there has to be a little more flexibility this year with what instruction looks like. i think we have a lot of math curriculums out there, but everybody learns differently. there has been a little bit of a challenge, trying to think about how to assess students and

making sure that they are getting instruction for math, at their level. as a mother of three, i have witnessed this myself. all of my kids learned math differently. we have different needs when it comes to the support that we are providing at home for them. i think this is an opportunity to think about how afternoon programs can help to buttress some of the instruction happening in class. we have to think about extended learning opportunities. we have to think about how we are providing additional support to that. we need to see how our country is doing comparatively. how we are looking at our

comparison, internationally. this will be a bellwether for us, trying to figure out where we are, as a country with mask instruction. we need to be looking at that to figure out what we will need to do or have our students fair different -- compared differently. host: she is annette anderson. thank you for giving us your time today. guest: thank you for having me. host: we have about a half-hour left in the program. you can call to join in. republicans can call in at (202) 748-8001. democrats at (202) 748-8000.

independents at (202) 748-8002 . we will take those calls when we return. >> every saturday, you will find events and people exploring our nation's past. book tv brings you the latest. television for serious readers. learn, discover and explore. ♪

>> washington journal continues. host: if you want to participate in open forum and post on our social media site, you can do so online. if you want to text us, it is (202) 748-8003. you can call (202) 748-8001 for republicans, (202) 748-8000 four democrats and (202) 748-8002 for independents. the budget resolution has been released by democrats. this is the work that will happen once the work on the bipartisan infrastructure bill takes place. earlier today we heard from our reporter that says it could take

place either monday, today or tuesday. the senate is expected around noon. you can also follow along on our radio app. breaking down how the communities might receive this budget money and what they would do with it. when it comes to the committee, this document saying the health the -- the health committee receives funds for the following categories. tuition free community college, investment in pell grant awards, and he goes on from there. receiving instruction of 37 billion dollars for the use of electrifying the fleet and rehabilitating federal buildings, including improving cybersecurity infrastructure.

when it comes to judiciary, $37 billion for the use of permanent or lawful status, community violence intervention initiatives and the like. it is a big document. you can find the breakdown in the various categories, including a letter from senator schumer. they reportedly said they wanted to wrap this up by september. you can follow along their. political reports when it comes to that budget. the one thing it will not include is something for the debt limit. democrats -- it does not tackle the need to tackle the debt ceiling. the exclusion of the debt limit language amounts to political gamble by president joe biden's

party. they have warned that republicans have warned that they will not give the votes needed. a potential across the aisle fight. the budget marks democrats' first step to bypassing the filibuster to pass their party's massive spending plan to fund initiatives like medicare, community college and green cards for some immigrants. that is the work on the budget side of it. when it comes to infrastructure, pay attention to that on c-span two, if you want to follow along. you can comment on those and other issues in politics. now is your chance to do so. (202) 748-8001 for republicans,

(202) 748-8000 four democrats and (202) 748-8002 for independents. the local section of the washington post talks about a university located in washington dc, trinity university. it says money that was given by the federal government, used to pay off student debt, saying that trinity washington is among 100 colleges and universities using federal pandemic relief aid to reset the limit for students. they are giving students a second chance. some are small and private institutions like trinity. others are large and public systems like the university of new york, which has given at least 50,000 students up to $125

million in past due bills. returning to matters of international affairs, the front page of the wall street journal highlights efforts and what is going on in afghanistan, particularly the seizure of cities involving the taliban. the taliban sees what it can do over provincial capitals. -- the taliban captured the capitals, all but eliminating the government presence in the north. leaving two of the provincial capitals on friday and saturday. the taliban swept through the rural areas this summer and have managed to make these gains even

. again, that is just some of what has happened. you may comment on these as you wish. first up during this time, barbara, thank you for joining us. caller: i want to go back to your original question about local governments on the covid issue. when the federal level -- this is the government that killed half a million iraqis over a lie. this is the government that killed over half a million americans over a lie about vietnam. in between, we had the lies about watergate and contra. i do not have confidence at the federal level. last monday, you should debriefing with dr. fauci, and he mentioned that over three hundred fully vaccinated people in provincetown, massachusetts

had gotten sick. he mentioned that 6500, that 6500 people in the nation have either gotten sick or died from the vaccine. he did not break it down and say whether it was 6000 dead or 6000 sick, but i have no confidence in the federal government. at the state level, andrew cuomo is apparently a sexual predator. i have no confidence in his ability on the covid issue. at the local issue, mayor de blasio comes on tv every day and tells us that we can exercise our first amendment rights. he comes on and tells us whether we can peacefully assemble in church and tells us whether we can exercise our right to free speech. last week he called for facebook --

host: you can add to that on the topic that she brought up. one of the people going back and saying what it could look like. talking about topics that you have heard about and mask mandates. >> what we are seeing across the country is that we understand the importance of vaccinations. let's get our pop-up clinics set up in schools, where students feel comfortable going to get it. everyone in the country agrees on that. we need to do everything to make sure that students are safe. the data is showing us that in places where they are not following those strategies, we are putting students at risk. host: he said that they are

letting politics interfere. do you see no merit to their argument that the school experience is impinged by wearing a mask? >> i understand the fatigue of wearing masks. my own children do not want to wear a mask, but this is bigger than us. we are trying to keep infection rates low. it is more dangerous for students to be home and have interrupted learning. we are clearly at a fork in the road in this country. he will help students be in school and in person or you will make decisions that will hurt students. host: you can listen to our shows on c-span radio. you can listen along on c-span radio as well. a couple of the offense or

materials to share with you. this is from the washington post , taking a look at immigration issues. one point one million unauthorized border crossings. it began last october 1. it goes on to say it would retain a trump era public health measure, originally justified on the grounds of the pandemic that blocks families from seeking asylum at the border. it has proved increasingly ineffective. people knowing that they might be expelled without a hearing. migrants attempt to cross the border again and again. for the most part, impulses are humane. it may cause the democrats control of one or both houses in the midterm election. that is from the washington post. if you go to the wall street

journal this morning, take a look at the recent decision to extend student loan forbearance. colleges and government have settled some borrowers with debt that they cannot repay. if they could enroll and forgive the balance after 20 years -- it has cost taxpayers nearly $80 billion. brookings institution study estimates that canceling 10,000 in debt per borrower would cause some hundred $33,000,050,000 -- a cool one trillion. democrats demand mr. biden spend money that congress has appropriated. those are the perspectives on two different issues. this is our open forum. this is from lauren in sparta. republican line. caller: it seemed like they have

those press briefings all the time. i was wondering when they actually do that in the advertisements. they always have recordings on there, except for the senate. i do not understand why they cannot put that on. host: what are you asking for us to put on? caller: the white house press briefings. host: we always air the white house press briefings. we do. go to our website. when they have one. sometimes they will brief off-site and sometimes it will brief on a plane. but when the white house comes in and they are at the white house briefing, we will take that. i invite you to go to our website to find out more. one of the people talking yesterday about issues of covid. dr. francis collins talking about the delta variant and what he might see next when it comes to reactions.

>> it could be more dangerous as well. what do we know about the other variants out there? >> there is lambda, which came up in peru and which we are studying closely. not yet really worried about it being more contagious, but it needs to be looked at. we had a very vigorous team that looks at every new emerging variant to see what wade it's impact be -- what would the impact be in terms of the delta variant. we do not have information on delta or lambda, or any other lurking out there. basically, we will have to move forward quickly with the booster. the best way to prevent that from happening is to reduce the

number of infections. people are infected with the virus and it copies itself slightly wrong. you get something even worse. all the more reason to be doing everything possible to cut back the spread of delta. host: that was francis collins from yesterday. going to the front page of the washington post, they took a look at those making $15 an hour. this is from andrew. overall, nearly 80% of u.s. workers now earn at least $15 an hour, up from 60% in 2014. jobsites at recruiting firms say many will not consider jobs that consider -- pay less than $15 anymore. for years, low-paid merck -- it has effectively become the new baseline.

the story from andrew saying that economists cautioned that higher average wage is not the same as a $15 minimum wage. half of workers industries -- and industries are making less than $15 an hour. nonetheless rising pay is still a game changer for millions of workers. you couldn't -- a game changer for millions of workers. the topic of schools, also coming up in a discussion yesterday with the head of the american federation of teachers. talking about teachers and what might face them when it comes to vaccine mandate. >> let me be personal for a moment. vaccines are the single most important way of dealing with

covid. we have always dealt with -- from -- since 1850, we have dealt with that. it is not a new thing. on a personal matter, i think that we need to be working with our employers, not opposing them , on vaccine mandate. all their vaccine policies. i said last week that i wanted to bring my leadership together. we want to consider our policy that we passed. the best way to do it would be people initially -- volitional e -- volitionally. i think that the circumstances have changed. i think it is important.

it weighs on me that kids under 12 cannot get vaccinated. i rarely separate my personal views from where i am as a leader of the union, but i have watched florida and missouri. you just see this, and we have to counter the misinformation. this is a public health crisis and the politics are infecting it. host: yesterday, reports that melissa derosa resigned -- resigned less than a week after allegations against her boss. calling the time working for empire state the greatest honor of her life. quote, it has been the greatest

honor to serve the people of new york for the past 10 years. it has inspired me every day. the past two years have been trying. that is part of the statement made by derosa yesterday. we will go to matthew. caller: good morning. we have been talking so much about this idea of canceling student debt. as a democrat, i kind of agree with that, but i am more concerned with the future borrowers and how college needs to be affordable for future students. i am a senior in high school and i went college to be affordable when i go to college. joe biden made a campaign promise about making college more affordable.

i do not think he has really acted on that promise yet. i would like to see some action. host: it is reported that they are extending the pause on loan payments through january 31. >> if -- caller: if i go to a public college, there will be -- there are policies that will allow me to find loans. host: the color is talking about the college experience. that was a -- caller is talking

about the college experience. when it comes to efforts on going into space, you probably recall the last month or so, efforts by both richard branson and jeff bezos. the wall street journal reporting they plan to charge consumers at least $450,000 for a seat on a spaceflight. the company, virgin galactic also said it was me opening ticket sales for future trips, prioritizing those who have already expressed interest in buying a seat on the flight. they will offer for sale everything from seeds to an option to buy out the entire six seat cabin. we expect many consumers will want to fly with friends or family. that was virgin galactic's chief

executive. the story adding that other stories including space technology include spacex. boeing say passengers could book a seat on their future capsule. it is more than some analysts had expected. watch out for that. you may remember taking a look at the efforts by both of those gentlemen and what it means for space tourism. you can go to our website at c-span.org to see those segments and learn more about the topic, if you wish. the senate taking up the infrastructure bill. they have been doing that all week long. expecting possibly a wrap up by

tonight or early tomorrow. the senate is supposed to come in at noon. you can look at that. if you want to follow along, there are a couple ways to do that. watch on c-span two or follow along on our website at c-span.org. if you want to listen to it, you can download our free c-span radio app and do it from there. this is a letter from twitter saying, when it comes to issues of importance to him in the open forum -- i think it would be great if they dedicated more money to social causes. i want them to pay their fair share in taxes, so the government can take care of its people. if the republicans keep getting tax breaks, where is the money going to come from? that came from our twitter feed. other people posting, but it comes to our previous segment.

even if you get the vaccine, you can still get the virus and you stop to wear a mask? you can comment there, if you wish. good morning. host: go ahead. you are on. caller: i was calling about these people getting money. even the people work, they are still getting money for their children. many are getting food stamps. my granddaughter -- they get a lot of money and food stamps, but nobody really cares about the seniors who cannot go out and work anymore. i am retired. i have a disability. the cost of living has gone up so high. they have our cost set up where you can only make

they are paying our school taxes property taxes of the, we are paying for all of their own -- our own insurance art of it. we cannot -- our own insurance out of it. where are we fitting in this dynamic? host: cheryl in pennsylvania finishes off this program. we thank all of you who participated. another edition of washington journal comes your way tomorrow at 7:00 in the morning. we will see you then. ♪ [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org]