information that came out with the 2020 senses and the impact it may have on redistricting. guest: thanks for having me. host: in a piece you put out, the five takeaways, particularly about the white population in the u.s., what does the senses show? guest: for the first time in our history, the white population declined. basically since the senses began in 1790, the white share of the population has been decreasing over time as america becomes more diverse and more people have kids in successive generations grow up. what has not happened is that the number of white people in america shrank. there are fewer white people in america today than in 2010. this is the first time the census has ever shown that. people are having kids later in life. they are having fewer kids. that is what mogg refers are calling the baby bus.

the opioid epidemic has taken a toll on rural america and now a broader toll on all of america. the life expectancy in the u.s. has shrank for the last three years even before the pandemic, which is something that has not happened in 100 years since the spanish flu. there is a minor technical change in the census and that they gave more people the opportunity to call themselves multiracial or members of other races. no matter how you slice it, there are fewer white people in the u.s. today than there were a decade ago. host: the second take away on the flipside of that is that every state in the u.s. got more diverse. guest: all of the growth in the u.s. over the last decade because that white population shrank, all the 27 .2 million people of the u.s. added over the last decade came from minority populations. the hispanic population grew the

largest. they are up to 18.6% of the united states. the african-american community group a smaller amount. the asian-american community is the fastest growing community in america. a lot of people will say this is driven by migration. it is not. among hispanics, three quarters of the growth we saw over the last decade came from what we call a natural increase, people having kids. only about a quarter came from immigration. the asian population grew largely from immigration. all of the growth we saw in the last decade came from the minority population. host: as far as the birthrate is concerned, among minority violations, more births, less in white populations. guest: one of the things that always comes out of the census is the median age.

the median age of a white american is in the mid 40's. that tells you the median american is getting close to the end of their childbearing years. the median age of a hispanic american is in the low 30's. the same for the median african-american and asian-american. that tells you there are more women in those minority communities who are in the childbearing age. they are more likely to have kids and expand their communities through natural growth. there are fewer by percentage white people in that category. host: the wall street journal reported that when it comes to population growth overall, seven 44 -- 7.4% violation growth. most counties lost population. six states and the district of

columbia now have majorities of people of color, including nevada and maryland. talk about what is going on at the state level. guest: every state is becoming more diverse. the funny thing is of that data all 50 states became less white over the last decade. the only place that became more white was in the district of columbia. d.c., about 2% of its population -- the share of its publishing that is white is 2% larger. this is the one place in the country that is becoming more white. there are a host of reasons we could talk about for d.c.'s gentrification alone. at the state level, the big thing you just said is that more than half of the counties in america lost population over the last decade. that is stunning. that has never happened before in american history.

in a lot of places, the demographics of those counties show that they are never coming back. they are never going to start growing population again barring some massive change. all 10 of the largest cities in america and almost every county of substantial size in the u.s. has grown over the last decade, something that rarely happens. the 10 largest cities in america are now all over one million people, which is unique to this particular census. what we have seen, and this is a 10 year snapshot of the u.s., the census bureau releases annual surveys. those have shown a much different picture for those largest cities and counties. in the early part of the decade, those cities and counties gained a bunch of population. in the last couple of years, that discussion is changing. people are starting to move out

of some big cities like new york and chicago. over the decade, those places gained. america is becoming a less rural country. the share of americans living in rural communities dropped by 2.8%. it is becoming a more metropolitan immunity. people moved into metropolitan areas growing to 86.3% over the last 10 years. the areas of cities that are between 10000 and 50,000, they are struggling. they are on the line between growing and staying stagnant. host: reid wilson takes a look at these issues from the census data, what it means for redistricting. we will take your questions on this new information. if you want to give us a call, republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000.

independents (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202) 748-8003. phoenix seeing its population increased by 11.2%. if these trends are continuing with the diversity going on, what are suburbs going to look like? guest: phoenix is a great place to start that escutcheon. my father-in-law is in the phoenix valley. 10 years ago when i started dating his daughter, his house, there was desert beyond. you go out there now, and there are miles and miles of subdivisions and supermarkets whether you go west or north or anywhere around there. those big metro areas are growing i leaps and bounds in that suburban area. the main growth over the last few years has not been to an urban core or rural america, it has been to that suburbs.

the census bureau looked at the 10 fastest growing cities in america, cities beyond the big metro areas, and almost all of them were positioned right next to a big metro area. a place like kent, washington, just outside of seattle, among the fastest growing cities in america not because it has its own industry facebook because it is that close to a big city warehouse impresses are unaffordable and people move if they want to get to a big city like seattle. host: the seattle times reported that it grew by 100,000 people in the last 10 years. guest: the city of seattle grew by 100,000 over the last 10 years, but king county grew by 300,000. 200,000 people moved to king county to get close to seattle.

interesting enough, what happened in seattle, amazon grew by about 50,000 people. half of the growth in the city of seattle comes from those amazon kids. you see them walking around the south lake union campus with their backpacks and laptops. host: several naps, one shows black americans in the u.s. as a result of census data. guest: black americans grew by a substantial margin, a couple million, 3 million over the last 10 years. the interesting thing about all minority communities, not just black americans is the breadth of their growth. minority communities grew in one particular area. and a lot of those counties, one

of the reasons they did not lose population is they are coming from those communities. host: for minority communities, are they moving out to the suburbs, what is that tracking? guest: the funny thing is we had this debate about the suburbs, there is sort of an idea about the suburbs that they look homogenous and that they look like the 1950's. they do not. the suburbs of america are more diverse than the entire country itself. minority communities are moving to the suburbs and living there in greater numbers than they do in urban course or rural america. host: this is mike from west

springfield, massachusetts, democrat line. you are on with our guest. caller: good morning. i have a question. i recently read an article that the hispanic community, 52% of all hispanics are white. whites are so worried in this country about becoming a minority. how can that be because if you include 52% of hispanics as whites, wouldn't it mean that the population is actually growing more? why are linda from texas said i was registered in the census between

white and hispanic. guest: that's a good question. the technical term is when i say white, i should have clarified that that is non-hispanic white. when the senses euro asks what your race or ethnicity is, they will offer a list and you can write in your own if you want. there is a separate designate nation for hispanic. and then, are you white, black, asian or other. there are people in the hispanic community who consider themselves white or black. it's based on where their family heritage is from. somebody can be both white and hispanic and that is different than somebody who is black and hispanic. they are both counted as hispanic as well as in their own category. the census bureau breaks that

out based on race and ethnicity plus the hispanic and latino designation so good west and. host: andy is in new york democrats lin. caller: when did europeans become white? irish and italians were not considered white. it's going to be a country of color and they never tell you that. that's the way it was before the coming of the europeans. what year were eastern europeans considered white? guest: a good question. there are designations that go beyond just the sort of topline numbers. we will get more census data

later and it takes a lot of years to roll out the information they collected in the senses last year. basically, if you are of european heritage, you consider yourself white. there are sub-questions and the longer form where they ask you what your heritage actually is. you can write in your family designation so if you are of italian heritage or english heritage or french or german, you can write that in and the same one of the things i am interested in is the breakdown of the hispanic community in the united states and whether or not they consider themselves people of mexican dissent or watermelon dissent or cuban dissent or wherever they come from and how long that lasts over the generation. new migrants to the united states might consider themselves or even their kids my consider themselves people of irish dissent were mexican dissent or vietnamese dissent.

what do the kids think of themselves? do they take of themselves as pan-asian or pan-european or do they still identify with their home countries? that is always fascinating because it gets into how communities view themselves over the long-term that can influence their political base down the road. host: how many overall people ie united states now? guest: there are over 331 million. the united states grew by 22.7 million last year. that growth rate is the second slowest growth rate in american history, that we have never grown slower with the lone exception of the 1930's which came after the great depression.

the census bureau rolls out there numbers and there was an impact the great recession had. it into the 11 years ago and we are still feeling the effects of it stop there are fewer migrants coming to the united states. there are other political reasons for that but everything has slowed down because of that rate recession 11 years ago. people need to write more books about that. it is having a serious impact on the united states a decade later. host: considering the senses took place during a pandemic, how accurate are the numbers? guest: they are pretty accurate. the director of the senses address this yesterday.

release the results of a post senses survey. there were serious concerns that minority communities and hispanic amenities would not respond to the senses because of the whole dust up over the citizenship question. the trump administration wanted to put on the senses and the court struck it down. i think we can be pretty confident that these numbers are pretty close to accurate. no senses is perfect and there'll always be a margin of error even during an actual count where they want to count everyone, they will not reach everyone. one of the things that is important to remember is that they go back and try to correct this stuff. many states spent millions of dollars, california was north of $100 million to encourage everyone of their citizens to be counted and that's because these census numbers are not just used for redistricting or media and entertainment purposes.

they are also used to administer hundreds of billions of dollars in federal, state and local programs across the country. if your city has 10,000 people, it will get x number of dollars for a federal education program. if it has 12,000 were 10,000, five hundred people, it will get a little more. making sure everyone was counted was hugely important. host: let's talk about redistricting, what does the senses do for that russes? guest: that's a complicated question. this kicks off the redistricting process that state legislatures have their data down to the block level of who lives where and how many people live in various places and they will use that data to redraw political

boundary lines which could be congressional district lines but it's also state legislative district lines and if your county or city has a council or commission that is decided by district, then those lines get redrawn based on the population and they will try to equal everything out. how the process happens differs by state. in some states, the legislature draws the line and the governor vetoes or signs a bill in other states as an independent commission. it doesn't matter in some states because there's only one member of congress and i think only one state now, the state legislature is divided between democrats and republicans and that's the state of minnesota so they will have to become to a compromise how to draw district lines. the redistricting process is filled with tradition and you will find that typically the state senate draws congressional lines and the house draws the

legislative lines and vice versa. it depends on the traditions they have built up. we are about to see a fascinating redistricting process because it will be the most transparent in american history and the most free of guardrails in the last 60 years or so. it will be transparent because we all pay more attention to redistricting now than we ever have before. both parties have outside groups that are raking in tens of millions of dollars to focus on the redistricting itself to bring attention to it and motivate their activists to show up and lobby state legislators about how their lines are redrawn. you as a citizen can go online and draw your maps and in many states, the legislature has email addresses where you can send in your maps and offer your own feedback. many independent conditions -- commissions good town to town and elicit feedback for themselves and how they should draw these lines where communities of interest exist.

this will be a really transparent process. at the same time, the supreme court over the last decade has limited the influence of the federal government through the voting rights act and the federal judiciary in terms of how much they are able to influence or oversee these lines. what we will see is legislators having a freer hand now to draw maps and gerrymander which is a terrifying word, then they did 10 years ago. there will be more eyeballs on them. at least it will be a more transparent process that will be a bigger free-for-all. host: let's hear from louise in north carolina, democrats line. caller: good morning, i have some questions to ask you. after doing the senses, i think another state gained more

congressional seats? am i correct on that? guest: yes, ma'am. caller: in the former president -- and the former president said it was inaccurate. how can it be accurate? host: that's louise in north carolina. guest: let's take her reapportionment russian. that's the numbers we saw from april where the census bureau released population for every state. there are 435 congressional districts in america. we we reapportionment those districts is everybody gets one and then the 51st state -- seat goes to the largest state. there is a complicated formula they used to decide the series of seats of california guess the 51st seat and california gets the 52nd because it's so big. texas gets the 50 third.

that's until you get to the 400 35th seat and it might be the ncaa tournament where you can see the states that just nearly got in the tournament and barely missed out on seats 436-440 if they exist. the broadest conclusion from all that was that texas gained a couple of seats, three seats, florida gained two seats and five other states gained a seat. i have to check that. a couple of the states, mostly in the northeast lost seats stop the outlier was california itself. they lost a congressional district for the first time it became a state. it basically had population growth that didn't keep up with the rest of the growth in the country. to her question about the last administration and its efforts to stop count, the in person

count is not the end of the counting process. if it were, then we would have the data sooner than august of the year after. what the census bureau does is they know they will not get everybody and they will not get everybody because they might not be able to find everybody, somebody might be on vacation or whatever. there are a million reasons why somebody might not be counted. somebody might not want to be counted. they go and fix their data in various different ways. there are ways they can basically walk down the street and see that there are four people in the house at 101 a street and for people at 103 a street. they impute that there might be for people at 105 as well even

though they can't get in touch with those people. there is a lot of science behind these numbers. they spend the better part of a year not just checking -- not just counting people but checking their numbers and trying to smooth out the data and figure out who is where and get the best possible count. i don't have the mathematical or educational background an specifics to tell you all about it but there is a lot of documentation on census.gov that probably goes over my head and i think you need a masters degree to understand it. host: here is a headline to show you about the congressional change in districts. guest: the population growth, the states gained seats are mostly in the south and mostly in the west. montana gained a second seat for the first time in three or four

decades. are again now has a new c2 game after washington gained a seat 10 years ago. arizona gained a couple of cycles in a row. it's the longer-term story of the american population. we are moving south and west and out of the northwest and into the sunbelt and west coast states by leaps and bounds. i pulled out a great statistic -- 100 years ago, the new york delegation was as big as california and texas combined and now new york has 11 few receipts in texas alone. that tells you about where people are moving. a lot of the northeastern states have been on losing streaks. in terms of the size of their congressional delegation for 50 or 60 years. they lose one or two seats every time a senses comes around.

people are moving to the south on the west. host: from houston, texas, go ahead. caller: yes, i think these racial categories -- my children are hispanic they are as white as the driven snow. i know you have addressed this before but i think it's true of blacks also. there has been a lot of intermarriage. why do we classify people and racial categories? i hate it. i just don't like it. guest: good point and one that the census bureau spent a long time addressing in their press conference. they are talking more about what they call their diversity index.

you can go to census.gov to check it out. one thing they are promoting is they are talking less about race and one population growing or shrinking and more about how diverse america is. i think that takes some of those points that people don't like to be classified by race a lot and they are doing something about that. the census still counts people by race because there are many federal programs that depend on race, there are still protections like the voting racks act, the civil rights act that requires certain things in certain cities and states, that they have a higher percentage of minority populations. the federal government wants to know who lives where basically, but they are talking more about diversity and less about one specific race. host: one of the graphics from

the census bureau as far as large groups in the 2020 census is whites from other race and that's followed by white american indian. all that is available at the census bureau. carol in st. louis, missouri, democrats line, go ahead. caller: my question was why do we go by race? this is ridiculous. it causes nothing but division and the other thing is when i give out my form, i put i am human. i am the human race and i think everybody should do that and that it would stop. host: let's hear from nelson in florida, republican line, go ahead. caller: good morning, gentlemen. i just have one question -- i'm 72 years old so i have been through a number of the senses.

on every single one that i'm aware of, there has been an assumption that there is an undercount step+ what's the purpose automatically assume there is an undercount and how do you know there isn't an over count? it seems to me that this problem, i'm trying to assume that there is a political aspect to this. i'm wondering if you could address that a little. host: nelson in florida. guest: the people at the senses euro all have dr. in front of their name and a phd after their names. many of them do and these are smart people who do a lot of statistical work to fix these

numbers to figure out the closest, most accurate possible count. i don't know that there is an assumption of an undercount but they go back and look at the numbers and look at what they have actually counted over the last year or so were six months they get to go and count people. when they do, they frequently find an undercount. they find that they have missed x number of people in certain places and they try to fix that or rather they fix their processes to make sure those people are counted in the long run. at the end of the day, it's hard to count 330 one million people. you will make mistakes. you will miss a street or somebody will not come to the door on the day the enumerator comes around step some people

may just not want to respond. that happens. one good example is the count itself that we know of, the 331 million or whatever i said earlier, that's before covid. the camp was supposed to take place or did plate -- take place census date april 1, 2020. we had like 1000 covid debts that day and we are north of 600,000 that day and those people were alive on senses day in april, 2020. the population is constantly changing and someone is born or dies every minute. it's a complicated process of these people are trying their best to make sure everyone is counted i don't think we can call it a political reason for the states that spend so much money doing complete count

campaigns and urging everyone to get counted. instead, it's the financial reason you talked about step i heard a great stat that everybody counted by the census is worth $20,000 in federal money over 10 years. that's a lot of money and for a state like california or a state like rhode island which narrowly kept it second reginald district by only a few thousand people. their complete count campaign work and save them a bunch of money. whether or not the second member of congress is a d or an r, whichever seat they saved, is more money from the department of education or agriculture or whoever else is doling out the cash. host: they tell us about 30 state legislators in the united states are controlled by

republicans in 19 by democrats. how does that shift because of this new data? guest: the state legislators probably don't shift very much. they will have to redraw their own lines and there are a couple of states that are pretty close to even control or flipping one way or another. arizona is narrowly controlled by republicans and i think democrats could win it back if they get nine seats but none of this changes before the 2022 midterm elections. we just know the numbers now and it will be up to the legislators themselves to redraw the district lines as well as the congressional and voters get to decide in 2022. we will see how much influence the dreaded gerrymander has in this process. host: james in san diego, republican line. caller: good morning. i think you misspoke a couple of times. in california, the redistricting

is based upon the number of people, not citizens and therefore that changes the population of the state. you must take into account all of the residence, not citizens and therefore california wanted to get more money and more districting and secure the districting in a particular area to which there were. correct me if i am wrong but the constitution says all residents, not citizens. two citizens did not have anything to do with redistricting as far as politicians go, republican or democrat. i will take my answer offline. guest: first of all, you're exactly right and i would never miss speak on that. the senses does not count the citizens of america. think -- they camp the population.

the constitution says the senses shall count everybody who is here in more eloquent language then i just used. yes, no question about that, everybody is counted. the citizenship question the trump administration wanted to add to the senses was contentious because of that rest in. there were fears that many people who would answer no to the citizenship question would not fill out their forms and there is wet and whether that would shift political power based on where people live and some states thought they would get an extra seat if other states were denied because of their large noncitizen population, not hispanic, noncitizen population. that question was not on the senses and at the end of the day, the constitution is crystal

weird that the senses meets the count of everyone who is here. -- the constitution is crystal clear that the senses meet the count of everyone who is here. just the census meet the count of everyone who is here. the process happens by how many people live where and not whether or not they are citizens but residents. that's crystal clear the constitution. host: from california, independent line, good morning step caller: good morning, in my family, i am european and my wife is mexican and my kids ask what are we and i tell my kids and my grandkids that you are mixed together. host: go ahead. caller: and i believe that

everybody in the united states will be mixed again and intermarriages and into race and everything else. i don't know why we should have racial problems even. that's all i wanted to say. guest: he is a californian, there you go. host: jim and idaho, republican line. caller: yes, there is another heinz 57. host: go ahead with your question or comment. caller: i'm another heinz 57. in our progressive liberals want to get away with our electoral election and they have also mentioned they want a large blue state president to move into red

states -- residence to move into red states to counteract the blue movement. that's what's going on. host: is there a trend showing is there a trend showing as far as people moving into so-called red or blue states? guest: people are moving to the sunbelt and that's clear. places like arizona and texas and georgia and north carolina are growing by leaps and bounds. states like illinois and west virginia are shrinking. new york, pennsylvania and ohio are pretty stagnant in terms of population growth. people are moving to places where there are jobs and cheap homes and where there is a good-quality life and a lot of sunshine. a congressional district in los angeles county moved to the phoenix metro area over the last year. you talked to a lot of

republican governors of these states in arizona and texas. i have had these conversations with governors who say on the record how glad they are that people are moving away from californian and into their states. you turn off the tape and they say i wish you would stop voting like you were in california. there are snowbirds, people who live in snowy climates who retire to more sunny areas whether it's florida or phoenix. or they are younger people looking for a new job and a home they can afford in a place like phoenix or dallas or austin which are some of the fastest growing portions of the country. i had a conversation with city administrators in areas outside austin and san antonio, the fastest growing communities in america who will tell me they cannot build sewers fast enough, they cannot build schools fast enough to handle the influx of

people because there are so many people moving in. there is a fun game to play. go to a shipping website like u-haul or a truck shipping website and check out what the one-way prices from san francisco to dallas and check out the other way. san francisco to dallas would be $1400 and it would be half of that going the other way. host: one more question from houston, texas, independent line, nancy. caller: how do you count all these aliens coming into our country that we had to take care of? how do you account for that on your census? guest: the constitution requires that everybody be counted. this is the founding fathers rules, not me. the founding fathers wanted to know how many people were in the

united states at any given time and that they meant everybody. they didn't mean just citizens, not just residents, they said everybody. that's what the senses does every 10 years. host: reid wilson took a look at the senses data. you can find more of his reporting at that hill and mr. wilson serves as a national reporter, thank you for your time. we will finish out the program with a half-hour of open forum. you can talk about maybe what's going on in afghanistan or other news as well, but -- but tickly of a political nature. here are the phone lines. "washington journal" will return after this.

[captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] female vietnam war correspondents out of taiwan covering up war was a male-dominated profession. there was no military censorship. probably the first and last unfiltered american war. it was for women, a gift, because it was only because of this lack of codification, this openness, that woman -- women could get through the biggest barrier as a war correspondent that you are not allowed on the field. elizabeth becker, sunday night at 8:00 eastern on c-span q and

a. you can find all q and a interviews where you get your podcasts. ♪ ♪ weekends on c-span 2. every saturday, events and people that explore our nations hast on american history tv -- nation's past on american history tv. television for serious readers. learn, discover, and explore. weekends on c-span two. ♪ washington journal continues. continues. host: this is open form until 10:00 a.m. you can comment on issues of politics are things that interest you in this half-hour.

a couple of pieces of news out of the supreme court. amy coney barrett denied a request by eight indiana students to block the big ten covid-19 mandate for the semester. she rejected the emergency plea for injunction without asking for anyone to weigh in, marking the first time the height -- the high court has weighed in on a vaccine mandate. another story concerning the supreme court -- a divided supreme co the supreme court granted a request to lift the moratorium

on residential evictions put in place at the beginning of the pandemic after a federal district judge in washington heard an oral argument on a moratorium on evictions in most of the country. it allows tenants to -- avoid eviction by declaring financial hardship as a result of the pandemic. new york enacted the moratorium in 2020 and extended it through august 31, 2021. you can read that at other places. , during the half-year the shower. -- guest: i enjoy your program. i had a couple of points to make about the senses. in 1929, the population was 121,000,000 in this country. it has almost tripled in 91

years. why isn't there an increase in representation in congress relative to the population? they enacted the law in 1929 that 435 members of congress. it went to 437 when hawaii and alaska were added. i think representation for the american people has decreased enormously in almost 1000 years. host: if you want to watch again, our guest may have more to say about that. you can check out the interview at our website at c-span.org. pittsburgh, pennsylvania. independent line. guest: i am calling because i do not see how it could be accurate -- they are calling everyone --

everyone is black. host our guests talked about that. :guest: everyone who is mixed is black. why is white but everyone who is mixed is black? host: there are more categories and that and we invite you to check out for yourself on the website. that's go to lee in rockville, maryland. independent line. guest: good morning, pedro. enjoying your program. pedro, with respect to afghanistan, i think we ought to take the advice of the old general -- air force general curtis lemay and bomb them back to the stone age. the only thing that ptolemy respects is force -- taliban respects is force. if the air force bombed them

back to the stone age, perhaps, perhaps they would stop overrunning all these cities, of the democratically elected government of afghanistan. host: why do that versus more troops? guest: that is not a bad idea but that is not what our elected officials want to do. >> you can continue watching this program at c-span.org. we are taking you live to the pentagon for a briefing with spokesman john cowan -- john kirby. mr. kirby: i thought it would be helpful to give you a brief update about where things are with respect to the military supports of the state department in afghanistan. i want to set the outset and should've said this yesterday, you guys know this is a planning organization. that is what we do.