with the ideas that you've offered today. questions are due one week from today which will be thursday, june 3. for all of our witnesses, you have 45 days to respond to any questions for the record. thank you again. with that, this hearing is adjourned. >> >> president biden intends to nominate rahm emanuel as a to japan. he is a former mayor of chicago, chief of staff to president barack obama, and illinois member of congress. nicholas burns is a diplomat and longtime foreign policy expert. he served under president george w. bush and bill clinton. >> c-span shop.org is c-span's online store. there's a collection of products . browse to see what's new. your porches will support our

nonprofit organizations. go to c-span shop. the conversation on afghan refugees, our guest is any of our geese of the -- sunil varghese. could you talk a little bit about your group, where it is based, how it is funded and how you do your mission? guest: thank you for having me. our group provides legal representation to refugees and forcibly displaced people around the world. refugees are often some of the most difficult situations in the legal process by which a reach -- a refugee goes into a big country and it offers a few due process rights and it is not transparent. for the last decade, the international assistance program

has offered representation for thousands of refugees and other displaced people to countries for their protection, and we have used that valuable information from the client to feed really important systemic advocacy to remove some of the policy obstacles that we see our clients face. lastly, we also use that information and that mission to pursue advocacy through litigation when that is the best course to change policies and to make sure that the obstacles to protection are removed. host: is that all donor based and how you do your work? where'd you get your money? guest: all donor based, we do our work principally from offices in new york, washington, d.c., berlin, and brute. one of the models that we premiered is because we are often in very difficult physical

circumstances we really pioneered a unique model of remote representation, so we are able to continually represent people, even if they are waiting outside of the kabul airport or as they try to navigate taliban checkpoints or at the gates, we can still stay in touch and provide that representation from wherever we are. host: so it is focused on those in kabul. we have seen the pictures of those who are lucky enough to get on those c-17's and get out, can you pick up the story for what happens when they stepped off the c-17's? where are they landing and what happens next? guest: i think, the first thing that is really important is that there are more afghans and more flights getting out of kabul. we really do not know much about where they are being taken or what happens to them, to be

honest. right now the focus is really on getting people out, getting afghans out, because the window is rapidly narrowing. we do not know how long the taliban will guarantee the sort of passage to the airport for afghans, and remember these are all people who worked with, for, or on behalf of the united states may be as direct as military interpreter, but also individuals who are may family members, ring cardholders, but also people who the u.s. -- green card holders, but also those who the u.s. equipped to be a generation of journalists, the u.s. advocated to be involved in local politics or teach in rural schools or advance women's rights. these afghans are particularly at risk. we already see reports that they are going door-to-door. right now, the goal is to get them into the airport and onto a

plane outside the country. where they go, we really hope that they arrive in the united states and/or on a permanent pathway to protection, but honestly the administration wasted a lot of time begging other countries to take our own allies, and reports are that some are flown out and we do not know how long they will be there, how are they housed and fed, but are their due process rights? will they come to the u.s., how long will it take? these are all questions that we need answers for, and we hope that while the government is operating to evacuate people, as many as and as quickly as broad as possible, at the same time the u.s. government with all of its might and capacity is coming up with more efficient and

effective systems to get these afghans into the united states. the existing process before the evacuation was just too slow, and took too long, and was broken. and so, we really hope and expect that that rogan backlog process is not what is going to be -- broken backlog process is not going to be happening. host: the question what was the existing process and the scramble to airlift people out. explain what a special immigrant visa is and how hard it is to get and how long that was taking. guest: rights. a special immigrant visa is a visa provided by u.s. law since 2009 for afghans who worked for and on behalf of the united states. very honorable and important intentions, there are -- the

u.s. was there for 20 years, and to advance the goals of mock receipt and human rights, and freedom of speech and press as well as the military presence, it required the cooperation of thousands of amazing, resilient, inspiring afghans. and, they had the confidence to step up and do that work. that was with the u.s., side-by-side because we made a promise that if their lives became at risk because of their work with the u.s. than the u.s. would have their backs and we would not leave them behind and we would bring them to safety, and that promise was supposed to be manifested through the special immigrant visa program. unfortunately, on the outset, it was clear that this was a very inefficient process plagued with administrative errors. you know, i could go into depth

and maybe your callers will be curious, but for example, this is for people who worked by hat -- on behalf of the u.s. government. logically, one would think that the u.s. government would ne-yo -- would know who worked for the u.s. government, a large part of the process requires the applicant to prove that they worked for the u.s. government, and that process to secure documentation involves tracking down the correct hr person for a company that you work for five or 10 years ago and trying to get them to write you a letter of support so that you consent to the americans and hope that they think that the hr letter is good . it was so inefficient. there is 14 steps with emailing the application package. the package being shuttled around the world. at the end of the day it is a

process that could take months to years. we had a client whose application was pending for a decade who was murdered this year right before their visa could be applied. it was really well-intentioned by the americans. the way it was implemented was too slow. one other thing i point out is there are thousands of refugees -- afghans who work for or with the u.s. who don't qualify for the special emergency visa program. afghans who did work advancing women's rights, democracy, received funding through the u.s. grants or cooperative agreements. the trump administration, and abide in administration -- biden administration did not work on behalf of the u.s. the taliban, when they go door-to-door won't say where you

working on a cooperative agreement or contract with the u.s. government? they will say you work for the u.s. government. you represent all that we are against. they will not have mercy. there's a large group of afghans we need to get out of the country who may not be in this visa pipeline because they technically don't qualify. they did serve side-by-side with the americans and we really need to get them out. for someone -- host: for someone who makes it through this pipeline, what does that mean in the united states? what is determined where the united states they go and what to they get when they are here? guest: united states has a long history of welcoming refugees and communities, cities. we are seeing so many governors step up ready to welcome and stand ready to invite refugees

into their community. for decades, refugees have been the backbone of so much american life. just like refugees, afghans who come in through this program are resettled through a refugee resettlement agency. if they have family members in particular cities, there will be efforts to resettle them in those communities. once they are there, they are able to receive some temporary assistance to get them off the ground. these afghans and refugees in general are so resilient, they bring so many skills. especially those that work with the americans. if you are able to navigate the system that is designed to fail and you are able to emerge out of the worst circumstances, you

do really well when you have the support and protection in the u.s. we just see refugees really move upwards on the path and build a lot of value in our communities and countries. america is ready and welcome -- ready to welcome. that is our history. we will continue on that path. we need to get them here safely. host: our guest with the international refugee assistance program. it is refugee rights.org. if you want to join the conversation, republicans it is (202) 748-8002, democrats are (202) 748-8001. independents. mike, in stockton california,

independent. caller: i don't know if you are misjudging the mood of the american people and our ability to bring in all of these refugees. i'm not saying they weren't lied to by our government. a lot of people don't think our government represents the people too much anymore. no one could explain what joe biden is doing at the southern border and all of these poor people our politicians lament are being put in inhumane conditions. it is true, the american people are kind, empathetic. we have been misled by officials for the last 20 years. host: what is your solution to the problem? do you think we need to stop accepting refugees? stop immigration? what is the right thing to do? caller: the right thing to do would be for people to advocate

that all of our policymakers, all of our bureaucrats, all of the politicians in congress, maybe joe biden be transported. host: the caller brings up the politicians. how much does your group do with refugees at the southern border? guest: thank you for the call. i would just say that we are excepting fewer refugees than we ever have before. the refugee program has been around for years. the u.s. has been accepting and refugees have been a part of our fabric since our founding. i think we not just need refugees but we are refugees.

i take the caller's point. i think he underestimates our ability as a country to continue to adopt and have people join our family. it is a part of our family credence of who we are. our organization provides limited legal representation to some people in what is called the mpp process. i think the impact here is the u.s. is a country of immigrants. immigrants have a moral obligation. they really move our country forward. if we really did a study of societies and look at which countries have the largest economic engine, what countries

using capitalist systems are able to move forward the quickest where innovation lives. those of the countries that accept immigrants. immigrants, wherever they come from. especially those fleeing for their lives. if you live in cities across america where people are leaving and going to bigger cities. you cannot find enough people to work. you cannot find enough people to help. we need more people. immigrants, and especially those fleeing persecution just adds to an important part of our fabric. i would also say it is amazing to be american and to have such a richness of culture around me. just watch in real time all of

it melting into one. i am really excited for myself and my children to continue this experiment. i take a point but i think more americans are really just excited >> c-span's washington journal every day, taking your calls live on the air. we look at the history of the war in afghanistan and what it can teach us with an author and former state department operative. watch washington journal live at 7:00 eastern saturday morning. be sure to join the discussion with your phone calls, facebook comments, text, and tweets. coming up tonight on