he will join us later on in the program. those conversations are coming up on washington journal. >> if you choose to research the origins of a topic being discussed in the united states called critical race theory, you will find the name derek bell. a law professor who died in 2011. he was one of the originators of this much discussed subject. in november, he appeared on book notes to discuss his book faces at the bottom of the well, the permanence of racism. >> the late derek bell, the first tenured professor, on this

episode of book notes plus. >> weekends on c-span two an intellectual feast. you find events and people who explore our nations past. on sunday, book tv brings you the latest in nonfiction books. it is television for serious readers. discover, explore, weekends on c-span 2. >> washington journal continues. host: sylvan lane reports on economics for the hill. we are looking at the economy when it comes to the economy. as far as where the company is as far as unemployment. guest: there are seven point 5

million people who stand to lose their unemployment benefits on labor day when programs created in march 2020 will expire. this is pandemic unemployment assistance, a program for gig workers, contractors, people who don't usually qualify for unemployment. 4.5 million people are going to lose that when the program expires on labor day. another 3 million people will lose extended benefits they get beyond the expiration of their state unemployment. host: if those benefits are lost, what does it do to the employment picture? guest: that's a great question. it's the ones the forefront of economists minds. some people believe that when you pull back this unemployment insurance, we will start to see a lot of small as this is the struggle to bring workers on start having an easier time with that.

the evidence we've seen in 26 states the did so over the summer, it really hasn't shown much of a positive impact in terms of narrowing the on employment gap. there are people concerned without the support people who were depending on these benefits are going to have a harder time supporting their families, a harder time supporting themselves. what happens is a big question for economist. it will have a lot to do with how the delta very impacts the economy. host: a gentleman from bank rate wrote this. one reliable constant has been improvement in new claims for unemployment benefits, the major issue for employers hasn't been an urgent need to shed workers, many have had trouble retaining the workers they want. guest: that's a great point.

this is a unique job market. it is driven by how good the economy is. people are still at home taking care of children, they look like they were going to get some relief. the delta very it has shifted that picture. there are people with health concerns that are wary of going back to work. there are people who may not have been able to get vaccinated for whatever reason. they may not have paid time off. it's not only just a matter of whether these jobs are available. there is the ability of people to take him. that has caused some problems for small businesses. >> some critics of the extension of unemployment, they relate that extension to people not willing to work for jobs. is there any connection that can be made? guest: you could always find a

handful of people who may be leaning on the system more than they need to be. the fact of the matter is it's harder to get unemployment aid that it is to be able to coast through the system. there might be some people taking advantage of this. there are millions of people not in the labor force looking for jobs. there are some people who might be limited based on what happened to them during the pandemic. people taking advantage of the system, it's hard to say that is a significant factor. host: a recent headline when it comes to unemployment numbers, initial claims coming out this week, the headline i'm showing is a low of 348,000. guest: we are less than 100,000 claims of where we were before the pandemic. when the economy was really strong, we were

when it comes to unemployment numbers, initial claims coming out this week, the headline i'm showing is a low of 348,000. guest: we are less than 100,000 claims of where we were before the pandemic. when the economy was really strong, we were getting 200,000 claims a week. that jumped up to 3.3 million. now we are back to a normal level. there is still some inconsistency. a lot of that has to do with unemployment claims assembled in 53 states and territorial offices. 53 states and territorial offices. it can we get tricky week to week. the overall trend is good. host: sylvan lane talking about unemployment issues. if you want to ask questions, it is (202) 748-8000 for those of you who are unemployed. for employers, (202) 748-8001. (202) 748-8002 for all others. you can also text us your thoughts at (202) 748-8003. earlier this week, you talked about matters of covid. the federal reserve chair talked

about that impact on the economy. i want to play what he said about the issue. >> we are not going back to the economy we had before the pandemic. we know the fed, we need to watch as the economy gets to the pandemic and understand the ways it works for policy. the place to start is the covid is still with us. that will be the case for a while. more people are getting vaccinated. the pace of vaccination has slowed. we were head of similar countries. now we are falling behind. one result is the current outbreak of the delta strain. one thing that has happened, people and businesses have improvised and learned to adapt.

it's not yet clear if the delta strain will have important effects on the economy. host: that was jay powell from earlier this week. he said things regarding the economy. guest: i think the biggest message from what chair powell said is there is considerable uncertainty around the delta variant and how it will affect the economy. it's really and unprecedented situation. chair powell mentioned the economy has been able to adapt. a lot of people have been working from home. there is still the significant portion of the country who worked in the service sector. they still face uncertain futures.

chair powell has mentioned that. given the economic trends, that may be changing. that might be exacerbated. we don't know if school closures or sentiment will affect the way businesses plan. host: does the federal government serve a role stabilizing the economy? guest: there are at eight crossroads. in march, they cut the baseline interest rate down to 0%. they've been buying up $20 billion of bonds per month. it's a way for them to keep borrowing costs and interest rates low. now we've gotten to the point where they are starting to think about how they are going to pull that back and reduce the stimulus. the economy is better than it was before the pandemic. the delta variant has raised

questions about how quickly they should go, countering inflation as well. host: you talked about those benefits being extended with the prospect of losing benefits, what is the likelihood the administration will offer more extensions. guest: yellen and marty walsh sent a letter to lawmakers that said it's appropriate for these jobless benefits to rollout. we are better off as an economy. if you are a state that is having trouble getting people back to work, a lot of people are not able to get back. you can use part of your money that was in the stimulus bill and keep some of these benefits going. the labor department is supposed to come out with guidelines for how they can do this on their own. host: sylvan lane reports on the economy for the hill.

this is martin in new jersey. you are on with our guest. go ahead with your question. caller: good morning. how are you? i am going on 62. i worked at the same business for 40 years. i was making a good wage. i had decent health insurance. i've bent on unemployment since this started. when you go to get a job now, they are hiring part-time. they don't want to hire full-time. they are hiring at minimum wage with no health care. i am stuck in the middle. i'm thinking about taking early retirement. i would have to take a part-time job to keep up and pay my bills and keep up with everything else. when you hear people say they

are sitting home because they don't want to work or they are getting more money than if they were working it, that is not true. you have to pate your own health care and every thing else. that is my story. host: mr. lane? anything from that? guest: i am sorry to hear about the situation. i'm glad you mentioned it. it is very similar for a lot of people your age. there has been a significant drop off in labor force participation for people who are nearing retiring age. the pandemic has accelerated a lot of retirement because if you're having trouble finding a job because of your age, it might accelerate that process. if this rebounds as the economy gets better or if we lose experienced workers, that is a question with a lot of economic

implications. there would hopefully be businesses that are thinking about that in terms of ways to smooth that out. it is going to have an impact on the labor force. a lot of people who are still wanting to work and may have trouble finding opportunities host: the labor force participation rate, in july it was 61.7%. what does that number mean? guest: it's a look at how many people of working age are actually out there in jobs or looking for jobs. we want that number to be pretty high. more people who are looking for jobs, the bigger capacity for the economy to grow. we are concerned when the number either decreases or stays at a lower rate.

it means there are a lot of people who could be working, making money and generating productivity and you are expanding services for everybody. they don't have the ability to do so. we want to see labor force participation increase. more people who are able to work are working. host: what number was it at before the pandemic? guest: it was a bit above 61%. it was closer to 65. it is lower than many economists would like it to be. that is a little bit of scarring from the previous procession. questions about how the modern economy is shaping up, that's a number we want to see higher for a while. the pandemic was a setback to that. host: from dayton ohio, our unemployed line. good morning.

one more time? ok, we will go to bill in pennsylvania on our line for others. go ahead. caller: thanks for taking my call. i'm not sure how this relates to the economy specifically, but i'm curious about covid and the impact. our vaccinated people subsidizing the health care of unvaccinated people in a sense? how does that affect the economy? should insurance companies be able to deny coverage for people who are unvaccinated if they get covid or do something about the premiums like they do with smokers? i'm curious about that. another question i have on a different subject, this has to do with shrinkflation where

prices stay the same but the packaging get smaller. guest: i'm going to leave the health insurance question to my colleagues on the health team. yes, when you are paying more for a smaller amount of the same product, that does get factored into the inflation calculations. the presidents economic team has tried to take solace in the fact that a lot of the recent inflation has to do with what economists expect to be short term factors. car prices have gone through the roof because of the semi conductor shortage, a lack of availability of used cars on the market. we sought lumber prices earlier this year go through the roof. they are down on the year. that has recovered. all of these things factor into a complicated picture. host: from july, we saw the

limit rate go to 5.4%. we sought 940 3000 jobs added. is this a trend? what does forecasting tell us? it has been pretty difficult. guest: a lot of economist are tempering their expectations what the economy will look like over the fall because they don't know how the delta variant will impact that. we had three straight months of accelerating job growth. we had some encouraging trends in labor force. we have been moving in a better direction. a lot of the reason was because of the summer. people are traveling it, we were moving in a good direction before the delta variant started emerging. how much can we power through that? host: how many jobs are available versus how may people who are available to work? guest: at the end of june it,

there were 10.1 million open jobs. that is a record high. there are 11.7 million people on unemployment and if it's. another 5 million are not in the labor force. we should be able to match the numbers on a pure basis. those job openings may not align with jobs that were on par with where these people were before the crisis. you don't want to take a job that would be low your skill level or your salary level. that could change your long-term economic trajectory. it's not as easy as matching the numbers. host: carol, on our line for others. caller: i don't understand. i am 68 and retired. i am living on a fixed income. i don't understand why they are

not ccing that 300 extra dollars a week. what is the reason they would want to go to work if they are making more money than they did before they got laid off? i see jobs everywhere. i pay my rent every month. i saved money. i just don't get it. host: that is carol in new mexico. thank you very much. go ahead. guest: this is a very unique situation that we've been in in terms of the lack of certainty we have over when and how it is safer people to get back to work. a lot of people are making difficult decisions about how to balance their financial security and the security of their family.

for a lot of people who have been out of the workforce, it's difficult to see that social net extended. these benefits are going to roll off in september. a lot of evidence shows they did really help people out a lot in the depths of this crisis. as we go further into the recovery, as more people get back to work, these benefits will be around for a few more weeks. we will see what the economy looks like without that. host: andrew from maine on our line for those who are unemployed. caller: join the internet revolution. i did it. i am 83. i retired a while back. i did some woodworking and stuff like that. i found out that most people

don't have to be programmers to be on the internet. you can do it from your home. find something to sell. many people have yard sales. instead of having a yard sale, do it out of your home. it isn't that hard. you will start to get a business. you will have a sense of things. host: what is it that you do on the internet? caller: at the moment, i am trading. i trade with the me generation. they are about 15. i have a little more experience. i did work on wall street for some time. take your experiences and use them. a lot of people will find it helpful. there is an internet generation out there. it's huge. it is changing the world.

get in it. host: is there a sense of people translating the skills into new careers? guest: we have seen over the past year and a half a substantial increase in business formation. people will start new businesses. that doesn't mean they are opening up offices. a lot of people are doing that. they are going online at. they are offering services. another thing a lot of people are doing, especially those who have kept themselves financially stable, they been using their stimulus checks and the statements they have and investing in the stock market. they are investing in cryptocurrency. i can't say that is always the safest way to provide an income. there have been people who have

tried to use whatever skills they have to generate new business or something to do while they haven't been able to go to work. host: when it comes to those employers, what faces them as they make those decisions to go back to an office environment. guest: we've seen encouraging signs at the vast majority of people who are vaccinated against covid-19, they don't get seriously sick. that's a good sign. it poses some challenges. the other fact of the matter is some people don't want to go back to the office five days a week. they found working from home has made it easier for them to tend to their family needs.

those are going to be things that they will have to grapple with. host: what do you think is the attitude of employers to make those adaptations? guest: we've seen a lot of big banks try to push their employees to come back sooner. it's a competitive field. there is a lot of direct contact there. for them, that is their mentality. apple is delaying the reopening of their offices. it varies sector by sector. it varies based on where you are in the country. host: joe is in buffalo. hello. caller: good morning. host: you are on. caller: i've got a question. host: you are on to ask a

question of our guest. go ahead. we will leave it there. you talked about inflation earlier. as far as people concerned about it, particularly where do you see inflation making advances? guest: that's one of the big faces -- issues facing the economy. we had an annual inflation late that would've been 5.4% in june. that by any estimation is normally too high. a lot of people who are economists and experts say a lot of this is driven by temporary factors, supply chain disruptions, issues with the auto industry, general quirks getting the economy reopen.

people who live through the 70's, you saw the what that did to the economy. they are concerned we will get there. so far, we haven't seen inflation get out of control. a lot of those temporary factors do seem to be settling down. that's a good sign. what happens with inflation? it will be the primary focus. host: a couple of text questions for you. have state unemployment systems come up to speed? some are very outdated, leaving people without benefits. have these issues been resolved? guest: the short answer is no. i'm not aware of any state that has made a substantial overhaul to its unemployment system. experts say a lot of these systems are working on the same computer programs and situations as they were in the 70's.

it is unique for each state. it could be hard to coordinate all of this. it's up to each state and how robust they intend to make these systems. host: this is from cameron in seattle. should the bureau of labor statistics use the true measure to reflect discouraged workers? you may need to explain that. guest: the bureau of labor statistics calculates the on rate in different ways. the average unemployment rate, the one you usually hear was 5.4% last month. that rate doesn't factor in millions of people who have left the labor market and are looking

for jobs. if you want to work, you are not counted in the normal unemployment rate. it is not necessarily the best measure for the strength of the labor market on its own. it is good to look at other rates, other statistics about who says they want to work but can't or hasn't been able to start the job search process. other issues that might come up. caller: i just want to ask a question. if you are disabled, what can they do for you? guest: if you are -- if you are receiving benefits but you can't work, you might want to talk to the unemployment office in virginia. it might not be a bad idea to reach out to the social security

administration to see if you might qualify for disability insurance. it's hard for me to say right now. those would be the options. host: brad is in maine. hello. caller: i had a different take on the issues. i'm a retired guy. i am working part-time. every week, they take out medicare out of my paycheck. i am pain full social security. they take that out. my question is, on top of all that, when i've made $5,000, my so security retirement money becomes taxable. if i make $25,000, 85% of becomes taxable. it seems like a lot of retired

people would be willing to jump into the job market and be willing to work if the government made it worth our while. one time, it didn't work that way. it seems to me that is holding back a lot of good people from joining the workforce and helping out. they don't want to have to make two dollars and give one dollar back. i appreciate your take on that. guest: it's an interesting and challenging situation. they will have to sort this out along the recovery. host: wage growth is growing up.

tell us about it. what are people earning these days? guest: wage growth has picked up. the issue is it is risen. a lot of those wage gains are getting wiped out by that. the potential positive silver lining is if this wage growth holds up and continues and inflation starts to cool back down. ideally, wages keep growing at a faster rate. wage growth was a little bit slow leading up to 2017 or 2018. it started to pick up before the pandemic. the overall goal is wages rising for people who have not been able to count on that. host: this is james in texas. caller: i've been trying to find work as an engineer. this is since 2009 when i was

laid off from the space program. all i see is companies that advertise positions and then don't actually have interviews. otherwise, advertising positions which are just internal staffing. there is no work. in short. at least, there is no work for anybody over the age of 45. i am 59. host: ok. that was james in arlington, texas. guest: i am sorry to hear about your situation. it can be difficult for people who reached a late career point, people who might be retiring. and they lose a job, it is harder for them to find them.

the point you made about jobs not aligned with your experience is something to keep in mind. when we hear about these job openings, it doesn't mean that everybody who lost their job during the crisis will be able to find one at the same level of skill and expertise they were at before. that can be challenging for people who have been in the industry for a while. i'm glad you mentioned that and i am sorry to hear about your troubles. host: sylvan lane does reporting for the hill. thanks for your time this morning. we will do open form up until 9:00. you can talk about politics or other things that matter to you. republicans (202) 748-8001. democrats (202) 748-8000. independents (202) 748-8002. you can text us at (202)

748-8003. it may be issues with afghanistan or the economy. you saw the president go before cameras yesterday to talk about the issues with the evacuation process. one of the things he was asked about was the credibility on the world stage because of the withdrawal effort. >> what is your message to our partners around the world who criticized the conduct of the withdrawal and made them question america's ability. >> i have seen no question of our credibility with our allies. i've spoken with our nato allies. our national security advisers have been in contact with his counterparts. the fact of the matter is i have not seen that. the exact opposite i've gotten.

we are acting with dispatch, committing to what we said we would do. let's put this thing in perspective. what interest do we have in afghanistan at this point with al qaeda gone? we went to afghanistan for the purpose of getting rid of al qaeda in afghanistan as well as getting osama bin laden. we did. imagine it, just imagine, if bin laden had decided with al qaeda to launch an attack from yemen. would we have gone to afghanistan? would we be in afghanistan? what is the national interest in that circumstance? we went and did the mission. you have known my position for a long time. it is time to end this war.

the estimates of the cost of this war range from a minimum of $1 trillion to a think tank at one of the universities saying $2 trillion. that is $150 million a day to $300 million a day. the threat has metastasized. there is a greater danger from isis and al qaeda and the affiliates in other countries and there is from afghanistan. we are going to retain a capability that if they were to come back to take them out. this is where we should be. this is about america leading the world. our allies have agreed with that. before i made this decision, i was at the g7 as well as met with our nato partners. i told them all, everyone of them knew