where were we as a country. >> on his nearly 300 mile journey, walking from washington, d.c., to new york city tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern on q&a. you can also find interviews where ever you get your podcasts. >> this week the u.s. house is expected to begin work on voting rights any three point $5 trillion budget resolution as well as the infrastructure bill. it starts monday when the rules committee meets to work at the structure of the debate. watch their work live starting at 11:00 a.m. eastern on c-span, online at c-span.org, or listen live on the free c-span radio app. host: joining us this morning is john mclaughlin, the former acting director of the cia during the george w. bush administration.

we are learning from reporting from the new york times that the president and administration was told by the intelligence community that it would take a year or two years for the taliban to gain control, that there was time. what do you make of that intelligence assessment? guest: first, thank you for having me this morning. i don't quite take literally what the media will say about intelligence because i know they have not read it. i have not read it either. i would be surprised if that was the only thing that intelligence said to the u.s. government because i sense is, without having been in the government myself recently that intelligence for years has been saying that this is a precarious situation, that the afghan military is not as strong as it is said and that the taliban has

been draining strength. i suspect there was more to that intelligence. host: as you look back at the last 20 years, the lead up to the afghanistan invasion, was it worth it? guest: it was worth it i think in some respects. we won't know, as in many situations like this, for some years whether it was worth it or the degree to which it was worth it. certainly i think we had little choice at the beginning to do anything other than what we did, which was to go to the place where al qaeda was resident and also to the taliban, which had harbored al qaeda. that was our approach.

we had to do that and our teams from cia were on the ground in afghanistan within 15 days after 9/11. we had two teams on the ground because we had maintained contact over the previous two or three years in at least five visits with members of what was then called the northern alliance, the group that was fighting the taliban. we had friends on the ground that could receive the teams, and we went in in september and by november under kabul had fallen. i would say those early years were basically good years in terms of eroding al qaeda and defeating taliban and installing a government that was at least at the outset seemed worthy of the afghan people and consistent with what we we wanted, what we thought afghanistan ought to be

in terms of human rights and so forth. it got more complicated the longer we were there, so i think the judgment about whether it was worth it is yet to be made. i would add one other thing, as result of american involvement, no matter what the ultimate judgment is, america did a lot of good in afghanistan along with whatever it might ultimately be seen to have done that was not so good. certainly the education of people in afghanistan, particularly women, the free media that is flourishing until recently, the belief that there was a future beyond what was constrained in the taliban. , all of that is to the good, so

as we leave, one important thing is that afghanistan is a different country than when we arrived. it is the same in many aspects, culturally it has not dramatically changed in many ways, but in terms of society and human rights and education in the general welfare of the populace, we made a lot of progress. the question is can any of that be maintained? one cannot be optimistic knowing what we know about the taliban but it is yet to be determined. host: you said there was little choice but to go into afghanistan after 9/11. can you tell us more about the intelligence that led to that decision? guest: at that point of course within hours of 9/11 happening, we knew this was an al qaeda operation.

it is important for viewers to know that throughout the summer, before 9/11, the cia was warning repeatedly about the potential for huge attack come and to be fair we did not know time, target or method. we were at the white house on emergency terms at least twice, that is calling the white house and saying we have something to tell you, and the message was reporting of danger and threat has spiked dramatically this summer, the summer before 9/11 and we are convinced there's going to be a major operation against the united states. we expected it, and when it happened, that morning i was on the seventh floor of the cia, i was deputy director and when the first plane hit my like

-- when the first plane hit, like everyone i wondered is this , terrorism, what is it? in the second plane hit there was no doubt what it was. within about two hours, one of our analysts should up with a manifest from the plane that had gone into the pentagon, and we recognized the names of two individuals who were members of al qaeda we were trying to find. certainty that it was al qaeda and we knew they had planned this because at that point we had done a lot of research on the camps and we knew that the 1998 embassy bombings had been planned and we knew the u.s. -- u.s.s. cole bombing of that worship had in all likelihood been inspired there as well, and bin laden had gone there in 1996. we had been following him carefully since then come and we formed a unit in 1996 to do nothing but follow bin laden and

al qaeda long before this was in the american consciousness generally. that is the reason, i mean the intelligence was compelling that this had originated in afghanistan. the final point is we had compelling intelligence that al qaeda was planning a second wave attack on the united states, and we realized at the cia that we were the only ones in the u.s. government who were equipped with the intelligence and the personnel trained in counterterrorism to combat this. so again we had to go in there in order to make sure it was not a second wave attack on the united states. host: tell us more about your day on 911 after you recognize those two names. walk us through the rest of the day.

guest: immediately we moved the leadership team to an adjacent building and we sent the majority of the employees home except for our counterterrorism people who stayed in the building. the reason we did that is we were confident that our building would be a target in any major al qaeda operation, and then we began gathering information and set up in this adjacent building a phone network with the white house and the defense department comparing notes on what had happened. look just like this except it was an did connection -- connection. who had a discussion with the

president about what happened. we gave him an update. he gave us, about as clear as a mission statement as you can imagine. i wrote down his words. form a worldwide coalition, we will find them and destroy them. we took that as our mission statement. it went from there, to the rest of the day was spent in planning for what we would do. that stretched over the remainder of the week. the following day, i had to read congress and the house. i did that the day -- brief the congress and the house. i did that the day after. by the weekend, the saturday, the president gathered us at camp david. hosting the national security

team, the cia, state department, national security advisor, so forth. the fbi, basically spent the day talking about what we thought we ought to do. the cia went in with a 90 page plan we have formulated a europe before. -- a year before on what we would do to attack al qaeda. we put that on the table. by monday, the following week, the president gathered us at the white house and gave 12 orders. for the cia it was carry out your plan, i want you first in. that is when we initiated the formation and movement of our teams into afghanistan. that was the beginning of all of this. host: our guests, the former

acting director of the central intelligence agency. he was deputy on 9/11. we want your calls, your thoughts. we go to don, celina, california. republican. caller: the question of whether we spent 20 years in afghanistan and was it worth it was rendered moot. by president biden with the callous, incompetent way that they abandon and fled the country. we did not withdraw, we fled. we are still fleeing. we have the american version of dunkirk. this is the most ridiculous thing i have ever seen in that -- in my life. whatever morale there was in the afghan government and afghan forces, completely the materialized. they collapsed because of president biden. host: do you agree with our

viewer? guest: i might not put it exactly in those words. i would agree with the sentiment that the afghan government probably lost its spine if you will. he left the country very quickly. -- the afghan president left the country very quickly. the united states was not going to be there. in that sense, a collapse was in part a result of the u.s. decision to withdraw. host: does that blame my with former president trump? as some of our viewers have said because he struck that deal with the taliban? guest: the blame game is going to go on for a long time. every administration going back to the one i was in, made

mistakes. that contributed to where we are now. certainly former president trump , by virtue of having made clear before president biden was elected. we were going to withdraw, and handing president biden an agreement that mandated withdrawal. to his -- president biden, to his credit, he said we are not going to withdraw by that date for sure. it was information instead of now. -- it was set for may instead of now. what president biden decided was -- that were not sustained because we announced not long after we would not stay beyond a

certain year. our pattern there has been one of raising hopes but repeatedly saying we are not going to stay. that i think is what has been met by the taliban, a famous remark. it is a cliche, almost. the taliban saying you have the watches and we have the time. in dealing with an adversary like the taliban it is always a mistake to tip your hand as to your intentions. we have done that repeatedly. i think president biden inherited a difficult situation. we will wait for years if he did the right thing or not. i think to add to the caller's comment, it is not just president biden who got us to this point. host: barbara in oklahoma, independent. caller: i did not live in

oklahoma at the time. i understand there is a little airport here in oklahoma that the saudi's came into and wanted to learn how to fly. they did not want to know how to land. they just wanted to know how to fly. i understand he informed the fbi or who, they ignored him. i would like to know if this was true or not. guest: i do not know about an airport in oklahoma. i do know that prior to 9/11, we had at least two cases of people from the middle east wanted to learn to fly. in some cases, not shown much interest in learning how to land -- not showing much interest in learning how to land. they were in minneapolis and phoenix i believe.

the problem with that was the fbi at that time was not structured the way it is today. the leader of the fbi who came in a week before 9/11, bob mueller changed the structure of the fbi to what it is today. before then, there was not a practice of the field stations, that is how the fbi is organized in cities. the field stations do not have the automatic process of sending reports like that into washington. many people in washington or unaware -- were unaware this was happening. there is only one case where i can remember where it was made aware, that is one of the -- there is only one case i can

remember where it was made aware. the government worked as a whole to correct after 9/11 was the free movement of information in the intelligence channels. so that everyone is able to see everything in real time and judge its significance. host: lynn, and afghan -- an afghan veteran. caller: how you doing? host: good. t wait for your service. -- thank you for your service. caller: this is a shame what is going on over there. we need to worry about working at all the details later and get those guys out of there. host: what are you referencing? caller: our friends, our family, are americans, everyone who needs refuge from this. guest: thank you for your service.

i am a veteran of the vietnam war. i understand the feelings that people have about afghanistan. i did not serve on the ground in afghanistan. i think people like lynn are the ones who have most credible testimony about what is happening there. what the future is. in terms of what he said, one has to agree with that. i'm getting messages from various people who have either relatives or friends or acquaintances there who need to get out. i am doing the little i can in terms of trying to activate context -- contacts to help with that. i have no comment other than yes. we have to get them out. this is in some ways the most difficult military operation i

can imagine. our military is not trained and prepared and geared to do this. thankfully, they are enormously capable and disciplined and do what they are doing. to actually have to get people out in those circumstances. you have seen the tv coverage of the press at the gates, the people at the gates. to get them out in those circumstances, having to do so with the centrally agreement of the taliban -- with the agreement of the taliban. to do so in a circumstance where in the latest instances of reporting, we have the potential for a terrorist threat aimed at some of these crowds. it is hard for me to imagine a more difficult circumstance other than combat against the enemy.

we have to admire the discipline that our military is showing as it tries to accomplish this operation. i cannot do anything other than agree with him. and hope that we succeed in what we are trying to do their. --. . -- there. host: -- if you are hiding in a house in kabul waiting for some help to get to the airport, you have been promised would be evacuated. what is that mission like to get those people to the airport? guest: it has been reported a lot now how difficult it is to get to the airport on your own.

having to go through taliban checkpoints, put up with taliban harassment. or about the street that might include -- worry about the street that might include terrorists. making your way on your own is a perilous bernie. there were -- peerless journey -- perilous journey. i have no inside information, inevitably, we are going to need to very the way in which -- vary the way in we get people out. i would be surprised if we are not talking to the taliban about our need to do that.

in seeking their we are to since -- acquiescence in that. that is a whole other chapter of this story. one has to wonder when it is all over. where will this leave the relationship between the u.s. government and the taliban if they are cooperative in that effort? i would say at this point, i do not think we know yet who this latest version of the taliban is. we know the people on the street are street fighters from the rural provinces and not under any particular discipline or control. a man who is the leader of the taliban and likely the leader under whatever government the form, just arrived in afghanistan. he is someone who has been

involved in this cause since the days the afghans were fighting the soviets. he also headed the negotiations that were haltingly without great results underway elsewhere in the middle east. with the united states and afghan government. he is an individual with a broader view of the world than the average taliban member on the street. we will have to see where he wants to take whatever government he forms. how he wants it to face the world and what relationship he wants with people. that is going be under question. i think the united states is going to have to figure out some way to leapfrog over the crowds that are pressing against these gates and get people at collection points or some other method. host: we will hear more about

the evacuation efforts from president biden when he addresses the nation today at 4:00 p.m. eastern time. deborah in west chester, ohio, republican. caller: thank you. thank you to the c-span listeners for being open-minded. i notice my concern is where we are going to be in 5-10 years. afghanistan is one of the richest nations in the world in rare earth minerals. there are several critical elements in there? . after 20 years, while we have not been involved in that. china bought $5 billion of mineral rights in coal and oil. they just negotiated a deal in oil.

although -- nationbuilding has a connotation work people do not understand it. like they should for our long-term future. it had not been a civilized more democratic nation, they're going to be the future of energy in the world like saudi arabia was for oil. it is inevitable. my concern is that china and russia will control the minerals coming out of this area. the taliban will do the dirty work out of afghanistan. we have to go up against russia and china. they do not care what the taliban govern. -- how the taliban govern. guest: i think she makes a good point. there are rare earth minerals

there that are article two -- critical to much technology. i do not know. i do not want to give your listeners a sense that i know something intimately that i do not. i do not know precisely where the united states stands in terms of its engagement with that sector of afghanistan. i do know as deborah points out, that the chinese are extremely interested in acquisitions of those minerals. they will come along with the russians, will start to have a relationship with the taliban that will facilitate that access. i think she sketches out for the united states a serious foreign policy and economic problem that we need to keep in mind as we construct our future relationship with whatever

afghanistan turns out to be. the chinese attitude towards this is probably mixed. towards what is happening in afghanistan, it is probably mixed. probably some tension internally. when we were in the initial days rounding up extremists -- >> c-span is live at the white house where president biden is getting ready to address the nation on the situation in afghanistan. he is expected to give an update to the response to tropical storm henri which was downgraded from a hurricane. you are watching live coverage here on c-span. >> fema administrator with me today. about flash flooding in waverley , tennessee and surrounding areas in tennessee. want to begin by expressing condolences for the tragic loss of life due to this last blood.