as grandstanding by common people? guest: i feel the pain in your voice. i understand and share your pain. i am sure that you and your husband and the generations of people who have served in afghanistan are feeling conflicted. i am the daughter of a career navy veteran who was a vietnam veteran and the granddaughter of a korean war veteran. i understand the pain that you must be experiencing. i think it is a good question. was there a magic to september 11? do we need to move the way that we moved? do we need to signal the date? those are all fair questions. it is my job to ask those questions. host:

>> coming up at 1:00 p.m. eastern, press secretary holds her daily briefing. we will have live coverage when it gets underway. " continues. host: joining us this morning from kabul, afghanistan, a lecturer at american university of afghanistan. you wrote a piece in the guardian recently about your decision to stay. tell us why. you had the opportunity to leave. why did he stay? guest: it was a complex decision. i recognized there were many more people much more deserving and in much more dire straits than i was, and i thought they should be prioritized. i had been helping facilitate the escape. i had already grown up in exile, and i am an aspiring poet as

well. i had written a piece saying that i do not want to leave home . we have done this before. i didn't want to do it again, for better or worse. it is my country. i lay claim to the land, as much as or even more than the taliban do. so they will have to deal with people like us in this country. host: are you safe right now? guest: with regards to physical safety and security, at least the taliban says there is a certain blanket. for now, yes, i am physically safe, and i am hoping it stays that way. host: you are speaking out, though, against the taliban. would you classify yourself as a

dissident? guest: the idea of ima dissident in a way where i will not just lay down and let them construct a world of their own accord. i think that if the taliban truly are concerned with brain drain that is happening in the country, if they really want the talented people that have already left the country to feel safe enough to come back and work for it, they will have to create an environment that is more sustainable. they will have to create a society that is more acceptable, that is more in line with modern values and doesn't necessarily have to be a completely liberal system. there can be an idea of reconciliation of different visions. so there's a lot of work. it is not a very hopeful time. these are the best of times, the worst of times because again,

when conflicts happen, especially when post-conflict societies present an opportunity where you can transform the society to something better if you put the right amount of effort and thinking into it. host: when you walk out your door, what is your life like today? guest: i actually went to the city today. i needed to get a few things. i went by the bank, which was finally open after more than 10 days. there were a lot of people standing in line, and there were taliban fighters asking people to respect the line. jan that, the city is slowly getting better. -- beyond that, the city is slowly getting better. the taliban don't trillion direct other than i think two nights ago, they checked the

paperwork of my card to make sure it wasn't a stolen vehicle because there was looting that happened on the first day. so the city has changed. you don't see a lot of women on the road. women are dressing up a bit more religiously, so that has changed. but also, the number of women you see on the right has changed as well. i think the country isn't going to be the same for a very long time, but we will have to see what it eventually becomes. host: will you have interacted with the taliban over the past few days? how is it that you are able to get past their check wings and carry on? -- the checkpoints and carry on? guest: everyone who was part of the republic, there were

outsiders from the west that were here. i grew up in an extremely cultural family. i speak their language. i know the nuance of culture. when i interact with them, for them it is a pleasant surprise for somebody to be informal pants and dressed up in a more western way to speak their language or greet them in their own way. so i can see that pleasant shock in their eyes as well, and i think that gives me an opening to be able to speak since to them, to the little margin that we can. there have been issues for people like me to help and actually ask them to help.

that is a unique position that i tried to use to the utmost advantage. host: so you have helped people to get out of kabul. can you tell us who they are, and how do you talk to the taliban to get them to the airport? guest: the good thing is that, without naming people, because i don't think that would be the safest thing to do, i've had friends here who were either working for the government or generally out in the open in essence, being in the spotlight, being celebrities. they really did feel in danger. it meant that i had to use a lot of my contacts internationally to make sure that they were connected with the organizations that facilitated their documentation to get out. then there are fixes on the ground that actually help people

get into the airport. you either use specific embassies, i think using the hotel here in kabul, and some of my friends just managed to get food to the air -- get through to the airport on their own accord. they spent six days sleeping on the floor of an airplane, 50 people sharing one toilet, having packaged meals, only to eventually be flown out. there have been instances with regards to the movement or security or general logistics of foreign organizations here, and we've had to reach out to the taliban to help facilitate the logistics from being looted.

so i have been able to do that, and i think that is a little difference that would not have happened otherwise, so i am glad i'm here. i'm glad i can do that. host: i want to invite our viewers to join in the conversation. if you aren't half can -- if you are an afghan refugee, (202) 748-8000, an afghan american, (202) 748-8001, and all others, (202) 748-8002. you described fixers on the ground. describe who these people are. guest: there is something to be said about the social hierarchy you have created with the phone numbers you're giving out. beyond that, the fixers are different people. they are either people commissioned by international organizations in order to help move people that are in danger or find them and locate them.

there are also afghans who have taken this up as a means of driving in the shadow economy of this conflict. they charge people a lot of money for movement into the airport. you would expect that when the worst of times hit us, that the best nature of humans comes out, but unfortunately, that is not what we see. even if there are rare cases, it still breaks your heart because you would expect everyone to give as much as they can to help. but there will always be people amongst us who thrive in other people's suffering. host: and can you give us an idea of how much money they are being charged? guest: in the initial days, it was $200 to move a person. it eventually went up to $200 or $300. there was an old lady that we

had to move to the airport to get out, and one of the pictures that's one of the fixers quoted $25,000 the other day to make. who has that sort of money lying around in a country that doesn't have a government, a country where banks are shuttered? so it has been quite overwhelming. host: what have you heard about once you get to the airport? what is happening around the perimeter? host: well, -- guest: well, it is very crowded. you hear firing quite a few times in a day. the issue is from both sides, the management of the airport with regard to seeing people's documentation, too many people to entertain, and on the other end, the taliban really don't know who to let in and who to let go, and there's very little communication on both ends.

so a lot of people have spent a day or two in the airport and had to get out again because they weren't facilitated. some people had documentation and were still turned away. people who had worked with foreigners, who were under threat. i think there was a lady that put up a post on her facebook the other day saying despite how much work i had done for this country and for the country she had worked for, they had given up on her. she was rejected at the airport, and she felt like her life was over and she was under threat. so there have been instances of this sort as well. basically, imagine armageddon, everyone running around and everything being chaotic, and you have the airport in kabul right no. host: obaidullah baheer is a lecturer in afghanistan, joining us today.

what is your message to america? guest: there's a very interesting piece on "the new york times" today on the chief of the army in afghanistan, who has also fled the country. basically, the essence of it is he says we lost because the united states tied our hands behind us, and then biden calls us cowards for not having fought. he said that we laid down 68,000 lives, which was 1/5 of our army, for the cause of defending this country, so don't belittle what sacrifices we gave to the country. beyond that, i think the american populace has the power of its own voice, and it really needs to keep president biden in check because he acts like none of this was his response

ability. he acts like he did not owe anything to afghanistan. i do understand the withdrawal. trust me, we did not want troops to stay here longer, but there were better ways to go about it. there were better ways to support the armed forces. there were better ways to keep the afghan government that was extremely corrupt in check. so they failed at all of that, and now the least that can be done is engaging with the taliban, making sure a more proper and safe mechanism for people to get out is insured, and making sure that the afghan population that was given the dream or started dreaming in the past 20 years, they are not stripped of it in the near future. an unsustainable society here, a fragile state in afghanistan, will haunt the region, will haunt the world.

it has done before. we really don't hope it gets to that. because the moment the united states decides to isolate afghanistan, decides to impose sanctions, the only truly suffering people will be the common for people of afghanistan, and they have seen a lot of war. they have seen a lot of suffering. generation after generation have been stuck in this vicious cycle of violence and poverty. let's break those. let's try to find a way to work this. this isn't the ideal society or ideal political situation afghans wanted or the united states wanted, but we will have to make do. we will have to make the most out of it. host: mohammed is joining us from new york. good morning to you. mohammed? caller: yes ma'am. are you there? host: yes, we are listening. caller: yes, my question is -- host: robin, good morning.

caller: good morning. i just wondered to say i really admire what you are doing there, mr. baheer. i am so grateful for your voice. my question to you, i think that you have a perspective that we don't hear a lot. if a could get to where you are, would it be welcome? do you think it would be disturbing to to the people who need? -- who need it? guest: what would be welcome? caller: humanitarian aid, like food, water, antibiotics, medications, things like that. are those things that you see that people need? with the even welcome that coming from the united states? i know that the british are trying to pass a bill to get

humanitarian aid to people that are still there in kabul. so i wondered, coming from the british were coming from the americans, would that be some thing that would be welcome there? guest: and what was your name, sorry? caller: robin. guest: robin, that is a really beautiful name which by the way. thank you for your kind words. there's a very simple principle in life. it says that your neighbor comes first, and that means that people in the your quality -- in your locality deserve help deserve help more than people that are further away because right now, we don't really have a government. there's not really security for any aid process that might start. so what you can do is reach out to your local representatives. see if they are helping in the process of accepting more afghan

evacuees. find out where they are. go to them. imagine, these people left in their own clothes. they didn't even have a bag. they weren't allowed to carry a bag. these people left lavish houses here. they had everything they needed. there houses are still packed with their stuff, unlocked, and people walk in and search these houses. so the least you can do is go and find these people, befriend them, tell them that their lives aren't over, tell them that they have a future in your country. help them in any way you can, or just volunteered to organizations that are already doing this. these are all opportunities that you have, and they will make a huge difference. the reason 20 years ago, people could take up arms and heard random, innocent americans was because they didn't know the

common people of america. there wasn't any people to people contact. this is an opportunity to change that area show them that united states truly is the land of dreams being actualized, and let them try it. everyone that came to you is an educated person that has had successful careers. these aren't people that are going to be a burden on your economy. so help them whatever what you can. those people are closer to you, and then it will mean a lot more to them. host: we will go to jackson next in arlington, virginia. go ahead. caller: good morning. i appreciate this show and i appreciate the comments coming from this fine afghanistan citizen. i served both in a rock and afghanistan -- in iraq and afghanistan. i left iraq, and about two and a half years, i did afghanistan

for a year in 2010. a comment i want to make into question i want to ask. the comment is there's is a paradox that exists here in that a lot of the folks you hear, and i am going to keep it apolitical because this could apply to either democrats or republicans, independents, it doesn't matter. but there are commentaries being made that we want to keep america safe. we went there because of safety of americans. his are the same folks who will say it is now unpatriotic, it is now a failure that america is leaving after 20 years. to a comment that the fine gentlemen just made, where he said take care of your locality first, here we are talking about afghanistan and finally leaving this 20 year war, we have done

nothing to our locality. there's haitians right now who are dying. nothing is being said or done on the news to support them, and they are right there. so my question to the gentleman here is would you agree that the united states, at least from my perspective, that it seems like the united states wanted something more from afghanistan then afghans -- i keep forgetting, i pledge eyes, afghani -- i apologize, afghani, we wanted something more in afghanistan that the afghan people wanted. that is why we are in the condition that we are in today. host: ok, jackson. let's get a response to that in. mr. baheer. guest: i think that there are a lot of things that went wrong in afghanistan.

there were far better ways of conducting this war. there were far better ways of establishing the system that was established here. the united states came to afghanistan in a lot of anger and rage. that meant that there wasn't a lot of understanding for the local culture. cultural sensitivities are really important because you served, and you must have remembered winning -- member to the winning hearts and minds strategy which is the only good thing the united states army as a policy tried to implement in afghanistan. unfortunately, it was too little, too late at that point. it is very difficult to win wars because the only successful war we have seen in recent history is crimea and the annexation of it. so the longer wars, intractable conflicts are very difficult to resolve.

in those circumstances, the united states really needed to understand the local context of the fighting. you cannot use this one-size-fits-all strategy for every region that you engage in. that meant that even when the united states took a back row in their engagement with afghanistan, should they -- they should have found people that had more of an understanding and afghanistan. what happened is the united states brought people into power from the west. that means they did not know much about the culture, just like the united states administration didn't initially. so these same people that fled the country, including the president, including his national security advisor, including his head of administrative office, all of these people spent most of their lives abroad. they did not understand how to engage with afghans. so there is a shift with regards

to what was the purpose of the united states in afghanistan because we did hear that it was nationbuilding. that was to liberalize and conduct liberal democracy here. on the other hand now, when biden is evacuating or withdrawing, he says no, we were just there to engage with al qaeda. we were there to kill bin laden. al qaeda hasn't been defeated. bin laden's killing happened with the support of afghans and at the backs of hundreds of thousands of lives. so yes, i do understand that everyone who votes for a president in the united states has a social contract where they should be the priority. however, sometimes we have to compare the tragedies or the crises people are facing, and i guess after a 20 year war, it would only make sense for the united states to find it within

itself to accommodate these afghans and prioritize them because it is a very short window, and this doesn't take too much. it is -- it's effects on the image of the united states is going to be remembered for a very long time . host: the president is sticking to that august 31 deadline. what concerns do you have with that? who will be left behind? guest: there are a lot of people who worked for the government who are in absolute danger, who are still stuck, who still haven't been processed. there are a huge number that have to be processed, and i understand the situation there and how the buffer could slow things down. the issue is we heard from the taliban spokesperson yesterday saying they will not let afghans leave after the august 31 deadline.

today we heard from the political office of the taliban saying anyone who has legal documentation to leave the country will be allowed to so. the issue isn't that a people leaving. the issue is the apprehension that the taliban might playing nice until the final foreign troops leave. even though i would bet on them actually one thing to -- actually wanting to meet the requirements or give into the leverage that the international community has with regards to international legitimacy, with regards to relief of sanctions, with regards to renting because if they want a functioning state, they would need all of those. i think even after the 31st deadline, we might see some strict measures with regards to letting people leave, but i personally don't think they are going to commit large-scale atrocities because it is going to risk taking them back 25

years ago, when they were isolated, and they really were a failing state. host: landon in michigan, and african-american, good morning -- an afghan american, good morning. caller: yes, every refugee that comes to this country should be voting public and -- voting republican. the democratic party has brainwashed this country. everything you google is bad about the republicans. they demonize republicans, just like that lady from georgia who says i can't believe everybody listens to the republicans. guess what? we can't believe that everybody listens to the democrats. host: ok, i am going to move onto the next caller in maryland. what is your name? your question or comment for our guest? caller: first of all, i want to thank you so much for giving me the opportunity. i appreciate the wonderful job

that you do. i also want to thank president biden for making a strong decision in deciding to pull america out of afghanistan. i thing it is the right thing to do. let's also not forget that it was trump that made this deal. so if this deal goes bad, it is trump's deal, not president biden still. all he is doing is trying to carry out. trump would have done this if it was the other way around. secondly, i just want to do say to the professor, or ask a question, the way that the afghans handed over the weapons to the taliban -- host: mr. baheer, did you hear the question? guest: he is saying why people handed over weapons to the

taliban? host: yes, the afghan soldiers, why did they put down their weapons, and the taliban take control? guest: part of the deal signed with the taliban by the trumpet adminstration included disabling a lot of the aerial support and tech support that was offered to the afghan army to contractors. they limited that. not only did the united states not have any capability to afghan troops, but neither could the contractors that were associated with them, which means everything that they learned to rely on for so long was gone. but that is not the only reason. i think a lot of the political strategies that were taken were for a president who is trying to lead a war and act like a general. that meant that a lot of mistakes were committed. they tactically retreated from

around the city. that meant that the taliban wanted to go for the cities, and it was very easy for them to access them. and when the united states acted to sign the deal and give the taliban momentum of having a bit more conviction, the afghan troops really had no leadership, had no cause to die for which is why, and maybe this is a blessing in disguise, they chose to disintegrate. they chose to surrender. which meant that a lot of afghan lives that could have been lost with tougher battle was avoided. i personally think that, despite the harm that military does integration does to the national interest as a whole, i think it is better that afghan lives were saved. i had friends who were commande rs who died for this war, and

their friends now asked the mr. president why their brother had to die when he was going to flee the country and give it up to the taliban anyways. so maybe the commandos that didn't die are worth accepting the harm that military disintegration caused. host: mr. baheer, what is your future? guest: predicting the future is no absolute science. hindsight works better. i don't know. i don't know. i am trying to make the best of the tools available to me. i am trying to speak out. i am teaching at george washington university and co-lecturing there hopefully in the spring of 2022. i have a talk hopefully coming up at oxford in a month. so i am just trying to raise my voice. i am just trying to be someone there who can help educate his

students, who can help create some semblance of hope in these very dark and difficult times, and hoping that this transition goes well for afghanistan's sake , for the international community's sake. host: obaidullah baheer, lecturer at the american university of afghanistan, thank you for your time this morning. >> what we do matters. i believe the 1776 project, that this project is an important historical moment. we need people to get behind us. we need to make sure our message reaches white, black, asian, hispanic. we need to fight for it. >> live, former professor invite

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