announcer: washington journal continues. host: mark greenberg is with the migration policy institute. he is also the former hhs acting assistant secretary for the administration for children and families, certainly from 2013 2017. mr. greenberg what about these

afghan refugees in re-steadily -- resettling the united states? first of all, what is the vetting process like? guest: first, let me just begin by saying a little more broadly, it is a devastating situation which has been very difficult. it is encouraging how many people have been able to get out over the last couple of weeks, but there are so many who are still there, and there is urgent need both for those who have gotten out and for those who have been -- as to the vetting process, and normal vetting process for the refugee program and for special immigrant visas, which we will talk about more, which is very, very extensive, like the multiple government agencies checking biographical

information, checking multiple databases, biometric information . the reason why the process normally takes a long time is because it is such a cumbersome process. for the afghans who have left the country, the administration has indicated that that vetting would always continue and will be continuing. it appears in third countries, to take afghans leaving from the airport. so the vetting will go on. the lobbyists will make every possible effort to expedite it, but it is a process that has to be done in order to be careful. host: so if you have a special

immigrant visa, that is the process we are talking about. what if you don't have that? guest: there are two main groups to be aware of, and then a third one that will also be part of the situation. there are essential immigrant visas, and those are for people who worked with the united states government for at least a year. either directly with the government or a government contractor. valuable service. and they are now at risk of danger, potentially death, based upon the work of the government. so that is the sid program. there have been -- the regular refugee programs, which have been the programs under which the government normally brings in refugees, and the administration has announced

that they will have a category in the refugee program. the pejorative term is p2, for people who worked with the u.s. government but for less than a year, or worked with government funded programs, or u.s.-based nongovernmental organizations, or media organizations. so, for both the refugee programs and special immigrant visas, both of those involved a very strong verification process . the additional layer of verification or sid's, of course, is -- siv's, of course, is that they need to get a letter of recommendation, but already vetting that they were

allowed to work with the government, and then there is the evaluation of how they did, and for those who risk their lives seeking to help. those are sid's and refugees. the third piece of this that has been in the news recently is what is called parole. parole is a process by which people can be more quickly let into the country for humanitarian reasons, and it is being used here according to the reporting, it is being used for people who are in the pipeline who had an application, it is pending, it has not been completed, but to bring them in within the sid pipeline, and then it appears it is going to be used for additional rules, but the details are not clear on that. host: how long could this

process take, for each afghan? guest: that's a good question, and honestly i think we don't know at this point. normally both the siv process and the refugee resettlement process, the process of admitting a refugee, are processes that take several years or more. for the siv program, congress actually passed legislation to say, except in high-risk cases, make the determination within -- what the government has not been able to meet that standard, and is based upon failure to meet those standards. but there are lengthy processes already, and the balance that i think the administration must be facing now is wanting to move as

quickly as possible, doing so in a way, putting vetting in place. and safety and security concerns while also trying to get people here and get settled as quickly as is reasonable. it is easier for those who are further along in the process, but that is probably a pretty small share of the entire group that the administration would hope to bring in. host: we will take your questions and comments about resettling afghan refugees in the united states. the numbers are on your screen. if you are an afghan refugee, a recent refugee of any country, dial in at 202-748-8003 and let us know your story. we would like to hear from you. mr. greenberg, where do these people go while they are waiting? what third countries, and where

do they live? how do they have money? guest: the united states has developed a multiple of arrangements with third countries, and that information keeps changing every day. it is being updated every day. so we know there are agreements with half a dozen countries or more, and the process has involved getting afghans from the airport to their country when they are ready and able to come to the united states. the administration has indicated that it is initially making views for military bases. and arriving afghans will first

go to military bases, and then after they have completed needed health screening and services, that they will then be able to -- they will be able to go to agencies that will help them getting in communities across the country. host: does it cost them money? do these resettlement agencies charge them a fee? guest: they do not. the resettlement agency receives funding from the federal government, for each refugee or siv that they serve. so it is a per capita amount that is based upon the number served. so they will receive something for that. however, it is pretty limited

funding, and the funding they get is only intended to provide services through the first 30 to 90 days. it is a multistep process where initially arriving refugees will get help from the resettlement agency. then almost all states have a state refugee -- here who is either someone in government or a nongovernmental organization, and they organize benefits and services after that 30 to 90 days, on -- often contracting with the resettlement agency. host: you are talking about once they get to the united states. in the meantime, they are at a third country military base until they are allowed to come here? guest: they are in third-party countries, and frankly, i have

been trying to follow this. the precise arrangement as to services and how people are advantaging during this period of time, and particularly if it will be a longer. of time. host: once they go to the united states, they go to a resettlement agency 30 to 90 days and the state helps to take care of them. how long typically does it take for a refugee to get on their own seats? guest: the reception and placement stage, the refugee arrives, and the normal way the system works, every settlement agency would meet them at the airport, has made arrangements for housing, for furniture, for

having a stuffed refrigerator, would then help them in getting settled into the community, help them if they have children, children getting involved in schools, getting social security card. if there is a bus system, learn how the bus system works. the basic community orientation. this is done by the resettlement agency, very frequently in partnership with local churches, synagogues, other religious groups, community groups, the business community, and there are also efforts made to help people get english language learning classes. that is all in this initial period of time. after the state coordinator takes on their responsibilities,

those kinds of services will continue, the coordinators receiving social services from the federal government that can be used for the english language, employment services, a pretty wrong -- broad range of other services. there is limited cash and medical assistance. they initially make an effort to determine if the arriving refugee qualifies for federal programs, and if they don't, they can provide up dates of very modest cash assistance and up to eight months of medical assistance for those who do not apply for medicaid. i should emphasize that the whole orientation, the program is around rapid deployment, --

as quickly as possible. it is actually sometimes criticized for that because in some instances, arriving refugees have significant skills, experience, qualifications from their prior life. the focus is on getting a job as quickly as possible. it is very frequently the focus of the refugee also because they want to be working. the amount of help they get really is not enough to support a family. a really strong emphasis on getting a job as quickly as possible. host: let's get to calls. barry. caller: really, a comment i would like to make. it has been reported over the course of 20 years that our military was very super careful in vetting many of these people

and still, throughout the course of 20 years, we had many green on blue attacks. i don't know what type of vetting you are talking about, but i don't think you can do better than our military does in the country. we saw many attacks on our soldiers. i think that we can expect the same thing here when people come here, that we are going to have to tolerate the attacks on americans. host: more details, if you could about vetting. guest: the vetting process focuses on basically everything that can be known about this individual and their life up to this time. as with any process,

circumstances can change over time but it is as careful as it can be. the overall u.s. experience with arriving refugees over the past 20 years, there is no example of people being killed by refugees who have entered this country in terror attacks. it is a process that began as careful as it can and is in contact here of seeking to bring in people who have helped the united states and at their own lives at risk in doing so. host: mike, houston, texas. caller: good morning.

we assume that the people coming over here have put their lives at risk in helping americans overseas. i disagree and think there are many refugees coming in who have not done that but are here. my first question and suspicion is, how many of these refugees will be settled in martha's vineyard? do you think there will be any of them settled in martha's vineyard where the comforts, the greatest comforts in america exist? where the elite from washington, d.c. go to retire? there is no mixture. do you think a fourth-grade stanford bound kid is going to have an afghan refugee sitting next to them? but fourth-grade stanford bound kid might be the son or grandson of a politician. there is never a connection. it is amazing how politicians

have so much good heart and all these good intentions to help all of these people around the world who live on two dollars a day, two dollars a day for their entire lives, they bring them here and then the peasants around america have to support them. what else can we do with a $28 trillion debt? where are we printing this money. host: heard your point. mark greenberg, where do these refugees go and how is that decided? guest: the way the process works, there are nine national resettlement agencies. the national resettlement agencies, they are nonprofit organizations. most of them are faith-based organizations. they go through a process of

determining for people who are arriving, where their initial settlement should be. this is in part based upon looking at where they already have friends and family, looking at the capacity of the agencies, where they have offices. community capacity. over the last 10 years, the largest refugees receiving states have been texas and california and new york and michigan and arizona and washington. but refugees do live across the country. one of the important considerations that agencies are often facing here is that one of the greatest problems for

arriving refugees will be the cost of housing. because they are at least starting out in jobs that typically don't pay a lot, it is important to settle in communities where there is a better chance of being able to afford the cost of housing. i should emphasize that the research makes clear that when refugees gradually do enter employment, that over time, their circumstances improve and they are net contributors and often very strong net contributors to local economies. host: michael in d.c. caller: i'm listening i think

this is an excellent discussion, thank you, c-span for allowing average voices to speak on this because respectfully, i do not know if he is an american, but as an american citizen, i, for one, put americans above and by far first in our priority. i cannot for the life of me understand how we are talking about bringing in refugees when we have a pandemic. supposedly, there is a national crisis. hospitals are filling up. we don't how bad this is going to get. on top of bringing refugees and from the southern border, from our failed wars and foreign policy mistakes, we are going to do the same on the biggest mistake of all, the afghan war and occupation. a 20 year horrible mistake that can only end one way for

everyone involved, badly. host: mark greenberg, if you could explain how many refugees the united states takes in compared to other countries. guest: sure. historically, the united states has been a leader in refugee resettlement for the world. that really changed during the last administration. the number of refugees declined very sharply during the trump administration. the last year of president obama's administration, 85,000 refugees were admitted to the united states. last year, the figure wound up being about 12,000.

it has been a very sharp decline over this period. i should note that one of the challenges that communities now face is that when those refugee numbers fell so sharply, that also led to significant reductions in funding for the settlement agencies. that meant the number every settlement agencies had to close offices or lose staff. part of what they are facing this year is the effort to rebuild which now becomes increasingly urgent. i do to us want to emphasize that -- there are overall issues about the importance of the refugee program, but what is particularly important here is

appreciating that the people we are talking about our people who risked their lives for the united states or in the efforts to build a new afghanistan. the war and the way in which it was conducted, these are people that we are indebted to because they risk their lives for us. host: are we taking the most afghan refugees? or is other countries, nato allies, taking as many as the united states is? guest: i think that is a fluid situation and we will need to see where the numbers settle. the accounts recently have been that the united states is bringing in 50,000.

some number of them are people who were at various stages of the special immigrant visa process. the total figure being used so far is 50,000. i think we don't know if that is where it is going to wind up. host: look at the numbers according to the u.n. refugee agency. these are the 2020 countries accepting the most refugees. pakistan led the list followed by iran, germany, austria and france. the united states ranked 22nd. what do you make of these countries, pakistan, iran, germany, austria, france taking more refugees? what does that say? guest: i think it reflects broadly the crucial importance

for countries of recognizing humanitarian obligations in helping those in need. this was something where the united states role was much more prominent, defined and that has an impact on other countries when they united states will decline. this is going to be an issue and the needs are going to be greater then just what the united states alone can do, but the united states does have a unique responsibility here based upon the twenty-year war and those people who have put their lives at risk for us. host: lisa in tennessee wants to know, if a refugee commits a violent crime, can they be deported? guest: yes.

the situation -- when refugees are committed, after a year, they can become lawful permanent residence. after five years, they can become citizens. before they become a citizen, they can be deported for having committed a range of crimes just like other persons who are noncitizens. host: jeff in nebraska. republican. caller: i really do think that if any of these men and women helped any of our veterans, if they help them at all, they deserve to come over here. however, i would like to know how this is all going to work out when we just allowed 2 million people to come across

the border in the south and we have the afghans we are bringing over here now. how is not going to mix in? host: what is your concern, chief concern for these afghans on top of the illegal immigration? what do you think could happen in the united states? caller: we are getting overrun. our systems cannot even handle the stuff we have on the border in the south. it is crazy the amount of people. the sad part of this, we have no mainstream media telling the people of the united states what is going on. nobody is covering the southern border. host: we talked about a lot here, let me take this question from jim in texas who says this is one aspect of what the color was talking about. what jobs are here for afghan refugees given their low rate of literacy? guest: for those who are coming

in now, it is likely to be a pretty big mix. particularly for those coming in with special immigrant visas. they will typically have considerably higher degrees of education. they are frequently persons who were interpreters, translators or were otherwise using english in their jobs. there is a government study from a few years ago around special immigrant visas that noted then higher education and literacy levels. as i was talking about a little bit ago, for many, there will be an issue of getting a job

quickly. and then, figuring out if it is possible to get a better job over time. i should point out that in the information in the program in the past, one of the things that has been found, and i overheard this and talking to people directly involved in resettlement, is that it would be not uncommon that the father was employed because they were working for the u.s. or a u.s. contractor. the mother may have left formal education and literacy and left work experience. one of the challenges and things coordinators will likely be doing is seeking to work with both fathers and mothers and

helping mothers who may not speak english and may not have significant paid work experience. i should also note that about half of refugee arrivals typically are under age 20. there are a whole set of additional issues and needs for rising children. -- arriving children. school enrollment hopefully, connecting to early childhood programs, for younger children, and as people are thinking about needs in their communities, one big one really is employment and housing, and then seeking to

help all of the members of the family as they seek to become fully integrated into the united states. host: david, grand rapids, michigan. independent. caller: good morning. somebody was saying -- sentenced yesterday for six years for six years before plotting an attack on her govern -- our governor and she said she still has a problem people protesting. we have middle-age white men running through the woods trying to take over and burn down democracy. my comment is that i would trust and afghan refugee more than a middle-aged white man running around me in the stand age. this idea that we cannot treat everybody equally, that understanding that because i am white i believe a different something or other? guess what, we all deserve to be healthy and cared for.

again, i would trust a refugee more so than i would trust any white man at this point in time. host: got it. dane in wisconsin. who is coming here from afghanistan? is it the interpreter and immediate family, wife and kids or chain migration such as mom, dad, uncle, aunt, etc.? guest: first thing, it is a fluid situation. we are going to keep learning more over time. in the first instance, it is clear there is a strong emphasis on those who were very close to getting special immigrant visas or in the pipeline for that program. when someone comes through with a special immigrant visa, they

can bring their immediate family with them. as we talked about from earlier, there will then be this bigger group of refugees, which will include more than just those that worked directly with the u.s. government, but so far, everyone that the ministration has identified is someone who was affiliated with the u.s. in some way and has helped the u.s. in some way. those will be who is coming right now. again, in the coverage, they have indicated it will be in the range of 50,000. clearly, the numbers in need are much greater than that and they are going out to make decisions

about that. host: aaron in alexandria. caller: good morning. i just have a comment maybe you can clarify if this is true or not and then a question. it seems as though our money, taxpayer dollars have been used to support the war and our taxpayer dollars are now being used to support those who gave a benefit to the united states war machine to benefit their objectives. can you clarify if that is true or not because it sounds like our tax dollars are paying twice. when we talk about we are indebted to people who helped the united states, this country has yet to repay or give payment to the people but actually founded and established the country and done right by native americans, african-americans, chinese-americans. i know there is a moral obligation. i believe we have a moral obligation to help those in need

around the world, but if we are just looking at faith-based organization helping these people and don't necessarily share the same faith, how do we manage that and what is your role in that? guest: sure. i think the first thing i would emphasize is there are certainly people and groups in need in many situations of which this is just one. this is absolutely a situation of tremendous urgency right now. in terms of cost to taxpayers, i have talked about what the refugee resettlement structure is. i think it does good work.

i have visited communities, talked with refugees and others. i think it is a structure we can be proud of, but it is really not a richly funded structure. as you have probably been seeing over these past few weeks, resettlement agencies reaching out and highlighting ways to get involved, there are some ways to get involved directly, and then there are also -- they are also asking for donations. that really reflects the facts that there are significant needs that just don't get met with the level of funding provided by government support. host: if viewer wants to know, are there organizations that you can recommend to make donations to to help these afghan refugees?

they risked everything, says ed, to help us and our government should not have abandoned them. guest: i think it is probably best of them not recommend a specific organization. what i can say is that if possible, in addition to just googling in your local community, you can go to the website or federal office of refugee resettlement or for the state department where they have lists of local resettlement organizations and communities in the office of refugee resettlement also has names and contact information for state coordinators. if you want to get connected about the situation in your state. there are a lot of groups who are doing good work.

i do just want to underscore that the resettlement agencies played this key role when people come in, but it is with lots of committee partnerships, with significant roles for faith-based groups and business communities and others part of what has been heartening over the last couple of weeks, particularly, is the extent of public outpouring of people asking how they can help. host: donna in wisconsin. caller: i want to know why they are sending all of these refugees to camp mccoy without being embedded. -- without being vetted. they should be vetted before they land on our soil. second, i would like to know how long the freebies last and how much exactly do each of these people get from us taxpayers and

for how long? host: mr. greenberg? guest: for those who are coming to this country, the ministration indicates that the vetting has already happened before they get here. they are not doing the vetting at the military base when they get here. the vetting has been done in certain countries before they get here. the administration indicates that when people are getting to the military bases, they are getting a medical screening, a variety of health care services getting help in applying for things like the work authorization that will allow them to legally work in this country. and then, getting a connected through the resettlement agencies with the communities

they will ultimately go to. in terms of the questions of how much is paid, one thing that is notable is the trump administration actually commissioned a study to look at plus and benefit -- flaws and benefits for arriving refugees and cost per benefit in relation to taxes paid. the study wound up concluding that over time, what is paid in taxes substantially exceeds what is provided in benefits. but then, the study was not released. host: here is gigi from north carolina. is it possible the united states is taking less refugees because

they would prefer to go to place closer to home? do they have a choice as to where they are relocated? guest: no one will be coming to the united states who does not want to come to the united states. again, because this is such an evolving situation that people will need to figure out what choices they have over time, these are people who have applied to come to the united states because the program has operated taking so much time. there was a significant backlog of people who wanted to come to the united states and were waiting for approval. there has been a strong priority

on helping. host: jason in ohio. it is your turn. caller: thank you. my question is, of these immigrants coming how many were part of the 300,000 standing army that we outfitted and funded? or the government that we propped up that cut iran? and, most of those military members, i'm sure can read and write. so what happens to them from their. guest: the program itself was for those who were translators, interpreters, otherwise helping the u.s. military effort.

and then, the group will be able to come in as refugees will be a broader group. i do think that one of the questions administration is going to have to figure out is what to do about the very large number of people who were not working for the united states or u.s. affiliated groups but are now at risk with the new afghan government based on what they have done in recent years. that is a much bigger group and administration is going to need to figure out what to do about it. host: mark greenberg, senior fellow in human services initiative director for the migration policy institute.

>> next, u.s. surgeon general dr. vivek murthy and the threat of covid-19 vaccination efforts. >> we are once again facing a is